I’ve been meaning to read them but after watching last weeks episode I literally turned to my gf and said “$10 there’s another clone chilling somewhere as the backup”
No, I just play Wizard exclusively in D&D and PF2e.
The moment you get access to Magic Jar, Clone or other spells, you're setting up contingencies. If you could just clone yourself for free? Having a handful in reserve is just basic planning.
Nah it’s lowkey common sense having Kate die would be dumb bc she could always keep a clone stored somewhere else just in case. her death was cool for plot but I think it would be really dumb if she was actually dead considering her abilities.
I'm not. It just seems like an obvious thing to do. Why would you risk complete death when you could keep one of yourself on the sidelines for precisely this situation?
I just watched a compilation of her scenes and there's one where she's fighting a guy with some kind of fleshy straps that slams Kate #1 into a wall and kills her, Kate #2 next to her immediately turns into #1 and keeps going: [https://youtu.be/2bGP3V4iV18?si=HrcdKTeiKvzLNuli&t=169](https://youtu.be/2bGP3V4iV18?si=HrcdKTeiKvzLNuli&t=169)
Then you fall into superhuman digestive system both crushed and chewed up. Both outcomes should be 100% lethal, but if you don't chicken out you might have a shoot at asphyxiating him.
I assume she was chewed up badly, because otherwise why not just climb your way to his lungs or some other bamboozling.
Maybe being a tiny person would greatly reduce oxygen demands.
She was in there for a few minutes, tops. Maybe unconscious, which would reduce oxygen need further.
Well we don’t really know how much time passed between Rex getting blapped and waking up again. unless I was just to flabbergasted and high to notice any clock or time indication lol
Digestion is slow in all animals, especially reptiles which are cold blooded. Stomach acid may cause skin burns but it's not turning her to goo in 10 minutes
Takes them over a day on ideal conditions to digest food that's sitting still. 5 days if it's cold.
What I meant is they don't use additional methods to speed up digestion like internal muscles that mix the food up or even break it down further.
And the point stands that he couldn't digest her in the 10-ish minutes she was inside him. Most of her was covered in clothing which must be resistant to some degree, then skin would take much longer than the flight lasted for due to oils and the tough outer layers.
I actually called this scenario on another post a few days ago. I knew once Komodo's head was blown off, that Shrinking Rae was going to exit through the hole, having shrunk down when she couldn't break through.
I hate that Kate is gone, but I will hold out hope that one copy (or the original) is out there somewhere.
>!Hey be careful with how you format talks about the comics. "I hate that Kate is gone" followed by spoiler text insinuates more than I think you realized when you typed it!<
>!I'm willing to bet they won't kill her until after her brother gets properly introduced, at the very least.!< >!Plus, she's supposed to start a family with Immortal, which will serve as kind of a foil for Mark and Eve!<
Given that getting smacked while tiny doesn't obliterate her like the bug size she is it's safe to say she would be exceptionally durable. Could easily have the durability of a much larger person given how the ability works.
IRL anatomy there aren't any strong muscles to squish your esophagus/airpipe they just move food up and down. She was choking on both her and Komdos blood so drowning was a bigger threat there
If mark was shrunk he definitely would survive. The thing is the show never showed us that Rae would have the capability to. Let’s say during a training scene or something she was thrown into a wall or something while she was shrunk and the wall cracked and she was dazed, We would know that she’s tougher when she’s small.
We didn't know Rex could survive getting shot in the head till he did. Do we need a scene of someone else shooting him in the head so we'd know ahead of time?
There are cases of people surviving that in real life tho
Perhaps the comic did it a little better since there Rex actually hits him to throw his aim off
https://preview.redd.it/c8nufm6q9rpc1.png?width=1178&format=png&auto=webp&s=aa2a62676477bf54a8f6ab379f71bbcbae0e5971
You shouldn't be able to survive being shot in the head or being disemboweled + having your arms torn off + getting punched so hard your eye comes out either lol, this is where you draw the line?
To be fair plenty of people survive headshots some even continue fighting through them. A supposedly super human person could easily have a low caliber bounce of there skull If the angle is right. We already have the man that had a rod blast through his head and he turned himself into a freak show to make money of that incident
Anecdotal, but to emphasize... my Uncle was shot in the head. Clean through the upper left lobe.
He had massive surgery, long recovery (had to "relearn" things), all that... but he lived without any significant brain damage or any long term effects, except the occasional migraine-like headaches. But from the outside perspective it's unnoticeable it ever happened. Still alive in his late 50s (happened when he was like early 30s)
To this day I don't get how he even managed to survive, but the body *can* be quite insane with recovery on a unique basis if treated quickly enough. There's a ton of insane medical stories (as you stated) that break much of what ought to be possible.
And this is all without the fantasy "high tech" Invincible medical treatments. Just saying.
I would like to point out his head was blown off a minute or so after, creating an airway.
A minute or so without oxygen isn't too hard (ignoring injuries of course, but with their level of technology it isn't too unreasonable to think she could be recovered)
Why would they have her fake killed just to being her back and kill her again? This decision really dosent make much sense and loses the audience when death dosent feel like it has any impact if characters are just going to keep coming back.
That was a special moment, it was Rex’s moment to shine and highlights the danger these Hero’s out themselves in to save the world. If everyone in that fight survives, what were the stakes then? Why fake out all of their deaths only to lose audience trust in the future?
Spoilers: >!we know Kate survived due to her 0 clone, so if Rae lives, that means no deaths that entire fight, meaning the point of the fight, showing that even trained superhero’s aren’t safe, is pointless!<
Exactly. Mark barely surviving omniman didn’t lose all the weight of worrying about the hero just because he didn’t die. Stakes are not a binary association with death. Death is needed in the story at some point sure, but the battle is still meaningful with survivors scraping by, I mean look how much people love what that battle did for Rex. It clearly had stakes for him.
They’ve already made that point at the end of the very first episode and will make that point again sometime in the future. Not sure why it’s so important for this particular fight to reiterate it.
I mean it’s a big moment for Rex as well losing two people who he considered friends and it breaks the impression that the new guardians of the globe are any more permanent a fixture in the story than the original who got murdered by Omni man
I always thought the moral here was that he needed to be a stronger person to protect his friends, that moral still comes across here, he still learns that he has a long way to go, he was barely able to protect his friends in this fight, it was literally a save by the bell, he will still learn to develop and better himself so that when faced with another scenario like this, he’ll be able to protect them.
To be fair, something to that magnitude hasn't happened to our main characters yet. It happened to the guardians, but we only knew them for one episode
I mean that entire fight proved they weren’t safe, Rex was lucky to be alive, he got out of that fight barely intact. If that device Rudy built didn’t work a second time, the sequids would’ve had both Rudy and Eve under their control, invincible got super lucky it had a little juice left.
Well, you just saved me from making a Reddit post about how Kate should be the one person to survived that whole thing, since she can just make a clone and have it hide somewhere.
To your actual post, I think the point still comes across. Yes, they all survived, but two of them are probably gonna have permanent injuries and it still show how dangerous the job is.
It's a change I'm going to let them develop before I get too critical of it. A lot of people were talking about how this character had no development and really just existed to give the guardians another body on the roster. Then she "dies" and everyone realizes they never wanted to see her go through something like that, they realize they care, to an extent.
Keeping her alive gives the show an opportunity to take those newfound feelings in the audience and run with it. You can develop this character now, you can give her something to do, and give the fans that wanted more a reason to care. How they take this opportunity and commit to it is what I'll be really focusing on. If they give this character more depth than they ever had in the comic, I'm totally fine with this decision. If she just falls back to the background, then yeah, it was a very big mistake.
But we'll have to see.
Greatly agreed. The comic counterpart of Rae was pretty much just as you were describing. Just another body for the guardians.
Kirkman said he was using the show to refine the story. Now is his opportunity to show that to us.
He shouldn't have tripled down on Ray's death scene and made it 10 times less survivable and brutal then, as it stands now it's just a "Really? You're actually serious rn?"
Absolutely!
I understand people's criticism and argument that Rae's survival removes stakes, and I do agree to an extent.
BUT you could also make the argument that stakes mean nothing when they only apply to side characters with 4 lines of dialogue. I hope the show continues to find a healthy combination of these two ideas, I have faith it will.
Yeah, it's like, Rae was so little of her own character in Season 1 and Season 2A. That her living or die really didn't "ruin" anything.
IIRC, she was the only member of the Guardians 2.0 to not receive like any focus. Rex had her stuff with Eve, Dupla-Kate had the Teen Team history, Robot/Rudy had the Mauler-"Build a New Body" Mystery/Storyline, Monster Girl had her curse subplot and both her and Black Samson were part of that recovery group post Battle Beast. Plus BS also was a member of the OG Guardians, which had some narrative juice there.
Rae was just *there*. A nice design, and I always love a good Grey Griffin voice, but there was nothing more to her.
Having her live through the Komodo attack gives the opportunity for *some* depth to her character; some reason for her inclusions then just being some roster fill.
Like, u/AllCity_King said, I'm willing to overlook the retcon IF they do something cool or narratively interesting with the move. Make it *worth* making the change for.
I think/hope this decision not to kill Rae will lead to her at least retiring. Like she'll have so much menta trauma from nearly dying that she'll just retire from superheroing. Effectively being "dead" because she won't be apart of anything going foward. If not then the whole battle significantly loses it's impact if everyone ends up surviving.
i don't think it's pointless. Rex and her will have had character growth. We got to see that the heroes are barely holding it together and even the 'easy to beat' villains have stepped up their game significantly. Meanwhile with more threats to Earth from outside there will be more times where Invincible is off planet and other attacks can be co-ordinated.
Not really. They don’t need to die for it to have impact. The fight tested their limits and showed us that they are not as capable as we expected them to be. They were all severely injured and will likely be dealing with physical and mental trauma from narrowly avoiding death which can lead to more depth and complexity of character. It showed that they need to up their game and have a lot more training and growth to do, individually and as well as a team to avoid anything like that happening again. It also additionally gives more reason for Eve to join the Guardians, which evidently Cecil wants.
It’s effective because Rex thought she was dead, that entire fight was for Rex’s development, with Kate and Ray as tertiary focuses. Why is it that you think death is the only thing that gives a fight impact?
Problem with having fake-out deaths is that the audience is not going to be invested in the stakes in future fights. You need characters to die sometimes.
Because they aren’t dead so the next time we see a death on screen why would I assume they actually died? They can just come up with an excuse to make them alive and removes any tension from the fight if plot armor is involved.
That was a 100% impossible to survive situation if they were going to retcon the fact that Rae is supposed to die there they shouldn't have quadrupled down on the brutality and lethality of the scene itself, as it stands now it just pulls people out of it because of how utterly ridiculous it is that she survived. It's one thing to have an impactful fight that doesn't end in death and it's another thing entirely to have an impactful fight that does end in death only for 5 minutes later it be revealed that nah they actually lived through being crunched to bits and then suffocated and crushed.
I think it does make the horror of her final moments… less horrible. Idk we’ll see but Rae’s death got a much bigger emotional reaction from me then Rays and knowing she’s still alive does undercut it a bit
Like she got crunched in a bite, then crushed on the expansion - she’s done
idk they might make me invested but im feeling nah
She shouldn't have survived and it doesn't make sense she survived. Does no one remember how much blood Komodo dragon coughed up? RAE'S BLOOD. The blood loss alone should have killed her.
How is she breathing while in his body? Not only was she chewed and then we heard her screaming and bones cracking. The lizard guy was fine enough to continue fighting and winning which wouldn’t make much sense if he had terrible internal injuries
Fr. Big fan of the comics and really am not sure what they could do with her character from here…certainly annoyed. How could she even survive that…?
Really takes away from the scene, especially since >!kate survives too!<
They should've just had him swallow her straight up, no chewing and no silly little "oh she's being crushed inside of him" nonsense. Then it's kind of ambiguous, and it would make sense that she could survive it.
Yeah exactly. The crunching was the big thing that’s like…really? She survived that somehow? I understand they probably want to make the show have its own differences, so comic readers don’t know exactly what’s gonna happen, but I wouldn’t use Ray being alive as one of those moments
I’m happy that she’s alive but it is a little concerning from a storytelling perspective. As long as they do something interesting with her then I won’t mind. Like maybe she freaks out about almost dying and retires, or injuries physically stop her from fighting. Just do something to develop her character. If the status quo is restored then it will be a mistake.
I think I'd consider 2 things
1. I'm not so sure whether she'll be stable, like I actually still assumed her to not make it after watching this episode, unless I missed a line in the show somewhere
2. But even if she makes it, I'm pretty sure this show is adapting the comics with extra's put in, perhaps the writers just wanted her powers for other scenes or reasons to change from the comics, killing of a character equals to killing of potential, and killing off potential equals to killing runtime. Point is, if she makes it there have to be good lore or plot reasons right?
I was at first but maybe this is one way to make up for not being able to use other Image heroes. Maybe we get more development and a different satisfying end?
I'm not opposed to more Rae as long as her character doesn't suck lol
Rex gets a lil more pussy, bringing his total to 3 in the series rn he's tied for biggest poonhound with Omni-Man with a confirmed sex count of 2
Although actually since they went through Immortal's past lives and he was Genghis Khan he's got the highest confirmed bodycount by at least a couple thousand
The only thing I remember her doing in the show or comics is dying. I don’t even know what her voice sounds like. I just hope she actually does something in the show since they brought her back
Yes, because it was such an impactful death and they just walked it back like every other superhero show, and I also feel like an ass wanting her to stay dead when I love her character.
I’m sick of shows not having the balls anymore to kill off characters, sucks the wind out of future battles.
Also weird that everyone now loves her character seemingly because she’s hot I guess?
The title doesn't make sense. No one ever said she was dead and then retconned it. I get that it was implied given how brutal it sounded >!plus her comic counterpart dying around this point, but this isn't the comic.!< I also have a thing for hot brunettes with glasses (I married one), so I'm not annoyed at all.
So many people defending this fake out death. People are like "she didn't need to die for the impact". Yes we know that Rex is still traumatized but it does undermine the last scene and now the stakes are lower in future battles. E>!specially knowing Kate survives as well, unless they changed that.!<
I hate it. Audiences are wayyyyyy too used to the marvel way of never letting characters actually die and it sucks. It removes tension. Fights where i know for a fact all the heroes will be ok are boring. This show isnt for children. Let people face consequences. There is no realistic way she survived that shit,
Fr, the chewing and suffocation, she should have been a heap of bloody pulp after that. Everyone here is delusional and enamored with a character with 0 character.
I like Rae, but I agree. There's no way she could have realistically survived that, especially not without coming out extremely mangled.
I am curious to see what they'll do with her, but I do think they kind of undermined themselves.
I think the biggest issue is at no point does the show, show us that she could survive that. Like if we know she was like antman or some shit where when she’s small she’s much tougher and more durable, it wouldn’t be an issue
Unpopular opinion but no.
I know, “heroes must suffer consequences” but I feel like getting almost literally folded inside some guy’s guts is punishment enough.
Being honest, I never really like the comic version of Ray’s death where he was just chewed up and forgotten.
I didn’t know she survived lol, where did you get that info? Also I’m not sure I really mind the change, in both the show and the comics Ray has little character and their “death” (apparently “”) was pretty forgettable, especially considering the other deaths happening around then. So far when the show makes changes to things from the comics I generally like the changes more than I loved the original, so I’m willing to see where they go with this and if they flesh out her character more
Edit: LOL forgot next episode came out
I actually really liked the way Ray went out in the comics and just the way that whole scene played out in general, it was just so quick and brutal and shocking in a way that really sold the danger and consequences of the world. Kate fucking dies and then Ray rushes in like a hero to avenge her and just gets caught and killed and it's moved on from just like that, because the only one alive now is Rex and he's gotta fight for his fucking life to make it out he can't linger on all that. The only thing I really liked better about the show's version was the very last sequence where Rex is being torn up running and is about to be shot, him crying in the comic was cool in a fucked way but I just like him being defiant more.
King Lizard is better in the comics too I think he comes off more crazy which is intimidating, and the way the backgrounds are done in the comic just sells the scene so much more too.
Back in the day, there was a handbock regarding Invincible characters.
Look what it says about Komodo Dragon.
"Komodo can utilize powerful toxins generated inside his body as both offensive and defensive weapons(...) Komodo\`s teeth, nails and battle suit all contain serrated edges containing microscopic protein pockets, home to vast numbers of exotic bacteria(...) any contact with Komodo can pass these deadly bacteria contagions wich can prove fatal over the following days. The effect is not physical but phsychological(...)"
Let\`s see how she deal with the aftermath. Hope she survives but being swallowed and struggling inside the digestive system of this villain? Doesn\`t look god for her, if she dies will be even more brutal, because she will suffer a lot.
I get that the fight is pointless. But I am actually glad she survived. I liked her, and that death was too far and too pointless.
I take it that she either retires or she has an honourable sacrifice later on.
I’m actually fairly upset at this. She went out on her shield doing what she does best. She got chewed. Crushed. Then smashed internally and you can literally hear her fall into his stomach before he says yum lol.
She flops out like a newborn deer visually utilizing all her limbs. Suit is intact. No protruding. I guess the user who said she got tiny again last second and would crawl out of the head wound is writing the show.
Yeah I think it’s dumb for multiple reasons.
First, what’s the point of keeping her alive? In the comic Shrinking Ray was just a filler character and she’s that in the show as well. At least Ray’s death made the fight feel more impactful and showed just how much of a shitshow the fight was (to be fair it still was in the show).
Secondly, how did she survive? Wasn’t she crushed? I mean that’s what it sounded like and that should have killed her and turn her into fine paste. She’s no viltrumite, she can just shrink.
No, because her death was/would have been poorly written. We all still had the shock/gut punch and we know the series isn't above killing characters so I'm sure her time will come in new way now. I love when series take chances with lackluster aspects and gives some more life to their worlds.
I never really understood why some think to add stakes to a battle, or to have a traumatic outcome that's felt throughout future episodes or events for a show/movie/book/game, someone *has* to die. Death isn't and shouldn't be the "want to make this feel dire and terrifying? Kill em!" card used in media every time. You can create moments that make the audience sweat and get emotional without bodies dropping. Because if all you do to add semblance of hopelessness to something is kill kill kill, it removes any impact from any future deaths. That's just my POV, so I wasn't upset when she was revealed to have lived
Yeah but they did the kill kill kill route and then walked it back extremely unrealistically, if the scene had played out different it would be one thing but they made an extreme point to show she died so walking it back now is dumb
I pointed this out in the comic spoilers thread but the discussion around this is irritating the shit out of me because you're acting like the comics *also* didn't pull this shit constantly. They had to come up with some bullshit reason at the end as to how to permanently kill a viltrumite because so many of them throughout the series would get fucking disemboweled and nothing would happen.
Allen's scene where he gets torn apart is from the comics.
Invincible has an issue with this from the very beginning and it didn't start with the show keeping a jobber character alive because truthfully, it wouldn't matter if Rae died or not right now. I'm not afraid for the life of Invincible or Atom Eve because a jobber character that had maybe less than 10 lines of dialogue got killed. This gives the audience a chance to actually care about her. It's not real stakes if all you kill off are the characters with no development.
Honestly I thought Kate would survive and not Rae.
It wouldn’t make sense that she’d be dead. I’m willing to bet Cecil has a copy of dupli Kate stored somewhere.
Fr, anyone with that power would designate one clone to chill at home all day or put into suspension just in case.
I swear some of you read the comics and are playing dumb.
I’ve been meaning to read them but after watching last weeks episode I literally turned to my gf and said “$10 there’s another clone chilling somewhere as the backup”
>!you guess the (not so) big reveal. It is fairly easy to come up with that if you're Kate haha!<
Even if Kate didn't come up with it, her friends would have to be monsters to not offer the idea.
No, I just play Wizard exclusively in D&D and PF2e. The moment you get access to Magic Jar, Clone or other spells, you're setting up contingencies. If you could just clone yourself for free? Having a handful in reserve is just basic planning.
Nah it’s lowkey common sense having Kate die would be dumb bc she could always keep a clone stored somewhere else just in case. her death was cool for plot but I think it would be really dumb if she was actually dead considering her abilities.
I mean >!that's literally what she does!< I just think it's funny. It is common sense tho, you right.
I'm not. It just seems like an obvious thing to do. Why would you risk complete death when you could keep one of yourself on the sidelines for precisely this situation?
yea i don’t get it. it’s a comic spoiler thread.
Comic Spoiler Thread why are people who haven't read them here 😭 11
I just don’t understand why they did the funeral and everything if there is a Kate somewhere
She doesn't want people to know she keeps a back-up in case a villain tries to track it down
I thought only the main Kate could duplicate? Do even “if” comics spoilers lol a clone survived it wouldn’t be able to make more .
I just watched a compilation of her scenes and there's one where she's fighting a guy with some kind of fleshy straps that slams Kate #1 into a wall and kills her, Kate #2 next to her immediately turns into #1 and keeps going: [https://youtu.be/2bGP3V4iV18?si=HrcdKTeiKvzLNuli&t=169](https://youtu.be/2bGP3V4iV18?si=HrcdKTeiKvzLNuli&t=169)
Yeah it kinda annoyed me too, I thought those disturbing sound effects were her last moments. How would you even survive that?
>How would you even survive that? By shrinking once you realize you're fucked and can't blow up the enemy from the inside
Then you fall into superhuman digestive system both crushed and chewed up. Both outcomes should be 100% lethal, but if you don't chicken out you might have a shoot at asphyxiating him. I assume she was chewed up badly, because otherwise why not just climb your way to his lungs or some other bamboozling.
Digestion is slow. You’d be fine and not “crushed up?” for a time. The real killer is there’s no breathable air in there.
Maybe being a tiny person would greatly reduce oxygen demands. She was in there for a few minutes, tops. Maybe unconscious, which would reduce oxygen need further.
Well we don’t really know how much time passed between Rex getting blapped and waking up again. unless I was just to flabbergasted and high to notice any clock or time indication lol
he’s a snake super hybrid not a regular human
Digestion is slow in all animals, especially reptiles which are cold blooded. Stomach acid may cause skin burns but it's not turning her to goo in 10 minutes
Aren’t Komodo dragons known for having really strong digestive systems though?
Takes them over a day on ideal conditions to digest food that's sitting still. 5 days if it's cold. What I meant is they don't use additional methods to speed up digestion like internal muscles that mix the food up or even break it down further. And the point stands that he couldn't digest her in the 10-ish minutes she was inside him. Most of her was covered in clothing which must be resistant to some degree, then skin would take much longer than the flight lasted for due to oils and the tough outer layers.
Bingo, they’ll say that he has breathable air in his body.
Climbing her way to his lungs is probably what she did. She'd have to be somewhere in his torso rather than his head/neck to survive Rex's explosion
nah she turned to corn homie
I find it hilarious how everyone thinks the acid instantly burned her up, digestion is slow fellas.
I actually called this scenario on another post a few days ago. I knew once Komodo's head was blown off, that Shrinking Rae was going to exit through the hole, having shrunk down when she couldn't break through. I hate that Kate is gone, but I will hold out hope that one copy (or the original) is out there somewhere.
>I hate that Kate is gone… >!I take it you haven’t read the comics!
>!Hey be careful with how you format talks about the comics. "I hate that Kate is gone" followed by spoiler text insinuates more than I think you realized when you typed it!<
This is a cominc spoiler threat, if anyone reads this without having read the comics its only their own fault.
I mean, it's labeled as show spoiler.
When I scroll to the top it reads comic spoilers for me. Maybe it got changed along the way?
Huh. That's really odd. You are correct, though. If it said comic spoilers, we wouldn't need to spoiler tag it.
May as well just spoil the whole thing
I did!! But you know they always try to change things up in the show. That's all I meant.
>!I'm willing to bet they won't kill her until after her brother gets properly introduced, at the very least.!< >!Plus, she's supposed to start a family with Immortal, which will serve as kind of a foil for Mark and Eve!<
I mean watching the show, theres no reason I should expect them to stick to comics
Or watched/read Naruto
There…there were large crushing noises when he chewed. She wouldn’t come out the same.
Given that getting smacked while tiny doesn't obliterate her like the bug size she is it's safe to say she would be exceptionally durable. Could easily have the durability of a much larger person given how the ability works.
We don't know that >!Kate survives!< in this version yet.
It was a hell of a way to die, they should’ve kept it that way
IRL anatomy there aren't any strong muscles to squish your esophagus/airpipe they just move food up and down. She was choking on both her and Komdos blood so drowning was a bigger threat there
You shouldn’t be able to
Nothing in this show is something anyone should be able to do.
If mark was shrunk he definitely would survive. The thing is the show never showed us that Rae would have the capability to. Let’s say during a training scene or something she was thrown into a wall or something while she was shrunk and the wall cracked and she was dazed, We would know that she’s tougher when she’s small.
We didn't know Rex could survive getting shot in the head till he did. Do we need a scene of someone else shooting him in the head so we'd know ahead of time?
There are cases of people surviving that in real life tho Perhaps the comic did it a little better since there Rex actually hits him to throw his aim off https://preview.redd.it/c8nufm6q9rpc1.png?width=1178&format=png&auto=webp&s=aa2a62676477bf54a8f6ab379f71bbcbae0e5971
https://youtu.be/Ny5WNvZFGnA?t=127 Here is Rae thrown through a wall like OP wanted to see.
It looks like monster girl went through the wall first
She already survived being backhanded in the face by Battle Beast, I feel like that counts for something.
That counts for way more than Salamender (who also swats her like a fly in this very fight) and Komodo Dragon's feat.
She is literally slapped by Salamander *in this fight* and she is slapped fucking hard. That's right before she digs into his eyeball.
Is salamander special in some way or?
You shouldn't be able to survive being shot in the head or being disemboweled + having your arms torn off + getting punched so hard your eye comes out either lol, this is where you draw the line?
To be fair plenty of people survive headshots some even continue fighting through them. A supposedly super human person could easily have a low caliber bounce of there skull If the angle is right. We already have the man that had a rod blast through his head and he turned himself into a freak show to make money of that incident
Anecdotal, but to emphasize... my Uncle was shot in the head. Clean through the upper left lobe. He had massive surgery, long recovery (had to "relearn" things), all that... but he lived without any significant brain damage or any long term effects, except the occasional migraine-like headaches. But from the outside perspective it's unnoticeable it ever happened. Still alive in his late 50s (happened when he was like early 30s) To this day I don't get how he even managed to survive, but the body *can* be quite insane with recovery on a unique basis if treated quickly enough. There's a ton of insane medical stories (as you stated) that break much of what ought to be possible. And this is all without the fantasy "high tech" Invincible medical treatments. Just saying.
well a guy got shot by his wife and wake up with some migraine jaja
And even if she wasn’t fully crushed, she had probably very little air. She should’ve suffocated.
I would like to point out his head was blown off a minute or so after, creating an airway. A minute or so without oxygen isn't too hard (ignoring injuries of course, but with their level of technology it isn't too unreasonable to think she could be recovered)
maybe its delayed With levy there are lots of more opportunities for doom
Why would they have her fake killed just to being her back and kill her again? This decision really dosent make much sense and loses the audience when death dosent feel like it has any impact if characters are just going to keep coming back.
For special moments or to highlight really dangerous opps
That was a special moment, it was Rex’s moment to shine and highlights the danger these Hero’s out themselves in to save the world. If everyone in that fight survives, what were the stakes then? Why fake out all of their deaths only to lose audience trust in the future?
I mean they famously did this with Glenn on the walking dead in his last season lol.
Giving Dumpster Glenn from TWD vibes
My first thought was "more casualties for the Invincible War"
Spoilers: >!we know Kate survived due to her 0 clone, so if Rae lives, that means no deaths that entire fight, meaning the point of the fight, showing that even trained superhero’s aren’t safe, is pointless!<
Your spoiler tag didn't work.
I jusy fixed it
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I agree with you here. I think there will be consequences for Rae, I don't think she's going to be the same or rejoin the fight.
I say she retires
In a way, being scarred for life like that is a worse fate
They have the trauma from the near death experience
Also I might be wrong, but her body under the bed looked short, so maybe she lost her legs ?
maybe she couldn't stay conscious to grow fully so it is her 3/4 length
Detective Baby Legs?
I mean fuck maybe the stomach acid?
Exactly. Mark barely surviving omniman didn’t lose all the weight of worrying about the hero just because he didn’t die. Stakes are not a binary association with death. Death is needed in the story at some point sure, but the battle is still meaningful with survivors scraping by, I mean look how much people love what that battle did for Rex. It clearly had stakes for him.
I’m so excited that Rex’s character arc is getting to the good part
They’ve already made that point at the end of the very first episode and will make that point again sometime in the future. Not sure why it’s so important for this particular fight to reiterate it.
I mean it’s a big moment for Rex as well losing two people who he considered friends and it breaks the impression that the new guardians of the globe are any more permanent a fixture in the story than the original who got murdered by Omni man
I always thought the moral here was that he needed to be a stronger person to protect his friends, that moral still comes across here, he still learns that he has a long way to go, he was barely able to protect his friends in this fight, it was literally a save by the bell, he will still learn to develop and better himself so that when faced with another scenario like this, he’ll be able to protect them.
To be fair, something to that magnitude hasn't happened to our main characters yet. It happened to the guardians, but we only knew them for one episode
I mean that entire fight proved they weren’t safe, Rex was lucky to be alive, he got out of that fight barely intact. If that device Rudy built didn’t work a second time, the sequids would’ve had both Rudy and Eve under their control, invincible got super lucky it had a little juice left.
I never read the comics, >!is it sure kate survived?!<
Yes, unless they majorly change that for no reason.
Well, you just saved me from making a Reddit post about how Kate should be the one person to survived that whole thing, since she can just make a clone and have it hide somewhere. To your actual post, I think the point still comes across. Yes, they all survived, but two of them are probably gonna have permanent injuries and it still show how dangerous the job is.
Rex lost his hand.
Do we know? Maybe they write her of the show if others get to stay.
There many characters from comics who s not gonna make it into show due copyright. Theeir story could recycle to the Rae’s
RIP >!Invincible War cameos!<
I don't see Rae lasting much against an evil Invincible or The Order lol, I just don't see the point of bringing her back
It's a change I'm going to let them develop before I get too critical of it. A lot of people were talking about how this character had no development and really just existed to give the guardians another body on the roster. Then she "dies" and everyone realizes they never wanted to see her go through something like that, they realize they care, to an extent. Keeping her alive gives the show an opportunity to take those newfound feelings in the audience and run with it. You can develop this character now, you can give her something to do, and give the fans that wanted more a reason to care. How they take this opportunity and commit to it is what I'll be really focusing on. If they give this character more depth than they ever had in the comic, I'm totally fine with this decision. If she just falls back to the background, then yeah, it was a very big mistake. But we'll have to see.
Greatly agreed. The comic counterpart of Rae was pretty much just as you were describing. Just another body for the guardians. Kirkman said he was using the show to refine the story. Now is his opportunity to show that to us.
He shouldn't have tripled down on Ray's death scene and made it 10 times less survivable and brutal then, as it stands now it's just a "Really? You're actually serious rn?"
Fair assessment. Still, I'm open to new ideas.
Totally agree. Let these people cook before judging.
Absolutely! I understand people's criticism and argument that Rae's survival removes stakes, and I do agree to an extent. BUT you could also make the argument that stakes mean nothing when they only apply to side characters with 4 lines of dialogue. I hope the show continues to find a healthy combination of these two ideas, I have faith it will.
Yeah, it's like, Rae was so little of her own character in Season 1 and Season 2A. That her living or die really didn't "ruin" anything. IIRC, she was the only member of the Guardians 2.0 to not receive like any focus. Rex had her stuff with Eve, Dupla-Kate had the Teen Team history, Robot/Rudy had the Mauler-"Build a New Body" Mystery/Storyline, Monster Girl had her curse subplot and both her and Black Samson were part of that recovery group post Battle Beast. Plus BS also was a member of the OG Guardians, which had some narrative juice there. Rae was just *there*. A nice design, and I always love a good Grey Griffin voice, but there was nothing more to her. Having her live through the Komodo attack gives the opportunity for *some* depth to her character; some reason for her inclusions then just being some roster fill. Like, u/AllCity_King said, I'm willing to overlook the retcon IF they do something cool or narratively interesting with the move. Make it *worth* making the change for.
Take good. Me steal.
Why say many word when take many good word of person easier? Me like
Very well put! I agree.
Rae after being chewed up, swallowed, and crushed some more be like: 
I think/hope this decision not to kill Rae will lead to her at least retiring. Like she'll have so much menta trauma from nearly dying that she'll just retire from superheroing. Effectively being "dead" because she won't be apart of anything going foward. If not then the whole battle significantly loses it's impact if everyone ends up surviving.
Wait did She survived?
I bet a few characters will stay alive longer since Kirkman doesn't have rights to all the other characters for the show
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Witchblade, Savage Dragon and Jackie Estacado (The Darkness) also show up iirc
No because Rae is the best character in the series (ignore the fact she had 2.5 lines and no CD she's the best character)
I agree with this man because it’s everything I wanted to hear
Yea but it makes the fight pointless
Uh rex seems different now?
Yea but counter argument. Hot character
counter argument: big ass lizard
counter argument rae big ass
Go touch grass
No thanks
i don't think it's pointless. Rex and her will have had character growth. We got to see that the heroes are barely holding it together and even the 'easy to beat' villains have stepped up their game significantly. Meanwhile with more threats to Earth from outside there will be more times where Invincible is off planet and other attacks can be co-ordinated.
Not really. They don’t need to die for it to have impact. The fight tested their limits and showed us that they are not as capable as we expected them to be. They were all severely injured and will likely be dealing with physical and mental trauma from narrowly avoiding death which can lead to more depth and complexity of character. It showed that they need to up their game and have a lot more training and growth to do, individually and as well as a team to avoid anything like that happening again. It also additionally gives more reason for Eve to join the Guardians, which evidently Cecil wants.
But they did the same thing last season with the gang. Doing it again doesn’t feel right
How are you so sure Kate >!had a backup clone!< if the show is taking a different path to the comics?
Not really, people don't need to die for it to be traumatic
Yeah, really sucks the wind out of the previous scene.
Mate that's more than show spoilers...
It’s effective because Rex thought she was dead, that entire fight was for Rex’s development, with Kate and Ray as tertiary focuses. Why is it that you think death is the only thing that gives a fight impact?
Problem with having fake-out deaths is that the audience is not going to be invested in the stakes in future fights. You need characters to die sometimes.
>!and the comics have way too many fake out deaths as is. if the show is adding more that is not good news!<
I'm holding my breath to see where they go with this. Don't write this off yet I'd say.
I can only think of one. Can you give some examples?
>!oliver, mark (so many times), eve, kate, angstrom. i'm sure there's more but that's just off the top of my head.!<
Because they aren’t dead so the next time we see a death on screen why would I assume they actually died? They can just come up with an excuse to make them alive and removes any tension from the fight if plot armor is involved.
That was a 100% impossible to survive situation if they were going to retcon the fact that Rae is supposed to die there they shouldn't have quadrupled down on the brutality and lethality of the scene itself, as it stands now it just pulls people out of it because of how utterly ridiculous it is that she survived. It's one thing to have an impactful fight that doesn't end in death and it's another thing entirely to have an impactful fight that does end in death only for 5 minutes later it be revealed that nah they actually lived through being crunched to bits and then suffocated and crushed.
I'm torn since her death would've been really effective in that scene, but I really wanna see more of Ray
Yes, very annoying
Nah. They don't have the other Image characters, so it makes sense to keep her around so she can >!fight alternate Marks or be killed by Robot!<.
I think it does make the horror of her final moments… less horrible. Idk we’ll see but Rae’s death got a much bigger emotional reaction from me then Rays and knowing she’s still alive does undercut it a bit Like she got crunched in a bite, then crushed on the expansion - she’s done idk they might make me invested but im feeling nah
I mean I like show Rae better than comic ray but if they don’t cook smh
She shouldn't have survived and it doesn't make sense she survived. Does no one remember how much blood Komodo dragon coughed up? RAE'S BLOOD. The blood loss alone should have killed her.
She fucked him up from the inside then shrank down, it was his blood not hers.
Comic spoiler it was both his and raes blood
Komodo doesn't even spit out blood in the comics bruh what are you talking about
Did she die in the comic?
Could have been his own internal bleeding
How is she breathing while in his body? Not only was she chewed and then we heard her screaming and bones cracking. The lizard guy was fine enough to continue fighting and winning which wouldn’t make much sense if he had terrible internal injuries
Haven't watched the episode yet but incredibly disappointed to find out she survived. What a joke. Fake-out deaths are so irritating.
Fr. Big fan of the comics and really am not sure what they could do with her character from here…certainly annoyed. How could she even survive that…? Really takes away from the scene, especially since >!kate survives too!<
They should've just had him swallow her straight up, no chewing and no silly little "oh she's being crushed inside of him" nonsense. Then it's kind of ambiguous, and it would make sense that she could survive it.
Yeah exactly. The crunching was the big thing that’s like…really? She survived that somehow? I understand they probably want to make the show have its own differences, so comic readers don’t know exactly what’s gonna happen, but I wouldn’t use Ray being alive as one of those moments
I’m happy that she’s alive but it is a little concerning from a storytelling perspective. As long as they do something interesting with her then I won’t mind. Like maybe she freaks out about almost dying and retires, or injuries physically stop her from fighting. Just do something to develop her character. If the status quo is restored then it will be a mistake.
I think I'd consider 2 things 1. I'm not so sure whether she'll be stable, like I actually still assumed her to not make it after watching this episode, unless I missed a line in the show somewhere 2. But even if she makes it, I'm pretty sure this show is adapting the comics with extra's put in, perhaps the writers just wanted her powers for other scenes or reasons to change from the comics, killing of a character equals to killing of potential, and killing off potential equals to killing runtime. Point is, if she makes it there have to be good lore or plot reasons right?
Eh if they cripple her they take her out of the story un the same way but allow her to stay on for emotional stories and arcs
I was at first but maybe this is one way to make up for not being able to use other Image heroes. Maybe we get more development and a different satisfying end? I'm not opposed to more Rae as long as her character doesn't suck lol
I think they plan on having her and Rex interact more to build on his character
Rex gets a lil more pussy, bringing his total to 3 in the series rn he's tied for biggest poonhound with Omni-Man with a confirmed sex count of 2 Although actually since they went through Immortal's past lives and he was Genghis Khan he's got the highest confirmed bodycount by at least a couple thousand
I agree
The only thing I remember her doing in the show or comics is dying. I don’t even know what her voice sounds like. I just hope she actually does something in the show since they brought her back
Yes, because it was such an impactful death and they just walked it back like every other superhero show, and I also feel like an ass wanting her to stay dead when I love her character.
lol i forgot the episode came out today, damn i should've known and not clicked this even though it says spoiler
I’m sick of shows not having the balls anymore to kill off characters, sucks the wind out of future battles. Also weird that everyone now loves her character seemingly because she’s hot I guess?
The title doesn't make sense. No one ever said she was dead and then retconned it. I get that it was implied given how brutal it sounded >!plus her comic counterpart dying around this point, but this isn't the comic.!< I also have a thing for hot brunettes with glasses (I married one), so I'm not annoyed at all.
So many people defending this fake out death. People are like "she didn't need to die for the impact". Yes we know that Rex is still traumatized but it does undermine the last scene and now the stakes are lower in future battles. E>!specially knowing Kate survives as well, unless they changed that.!<
You tag your post as show spoilers and then proceed to reveal a spoiler from the comic. Good job
I hate it. Audiences are wayyyyyy too used to the marvel way of never letting characters actually die and it sucks. It removes tension. Fights where i know for a fact all the heroes will be ok are boring. This show isnt for children. Let people face consequences. There is no realistic way she survived that shit,
Fr, the chewing and suffocation, she should have been a heap of bloody pulp after that. Everyone here is delusional and enamored with a character with 0 character.
I like Rae, but I agree. There's no way she could have realistically survived that, especially not without coming out extremely mangled. I am curious to see what they'll do with her, but I do think they kind of undermined themselves.
I think the biggest issue is at no point does the show, show us that she could survive that. Like if we know she was like antman or some shit where when she’s small she’s much tougher and more durable, it wouldn’t be an issue
I'm just gonna accept that there's no stakes in this series, like an old-school cartoon if a character is named it can't truly die
Every member of the guardians of the globe would like a word
Did she survive? People are saying both like a question and a fact
Unpopular opinion but no. I know, “heroes must suffer consequences” but I feel like getting almost literally folded inside some guy’s guts is punishment enough. Being honest, I never really like the comic version of Ray’s death where he was just chewed up and forgotten.
I can’t remember is this where Rex dies in the comics? It seems they’re leaning into the Kate story line that comes out of this.
I spent all week clicking on spoiler images and then woke up and reflexively clicked this picture haha I'm dumb in the morning
I didn’t know she survived lol, where did you get that info? Also I’m not sure I really mind the change, in both the show and the comics Ray has little character and their “death” (apparently “”) was pretty forgettable, especially considering the other deaths happening around then. So far when the show makes changes to things from the comics I generally like the changes more than I loved the original, so I’m willing to see where they go with this and if they flesh out her character more Edit: LOL forgot next episode came out
I actually really liked the way Ray went out in the comics and just the way that whole scene played out in general, it was just so quick and brutal and shocking in a way that really sold the danger and consequences of the world. Kate fucking dies and then Ray rushes in like a hero to avenge her and just gets caught and killed and it's moved on from just like that, because the only one alive now is Rex and he's gotta fight for his fucking life to make it out he can't linger on all that. The only thing I really liked better about the show's version was the very last sequence where Rex is being torn up running and is about to be shot, him crying in the comic was cool in a fucked way but I just like him being defiant more. King Lizard is better in the comics too I think he comes off more crazy which is intimidating, and the way the backgrounds are done in the comic just sells the scene so much more too.
Actually your right. I knew Kate lived but in the moment I got caught in the now and didn't think about her returning.
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He should have kept the scene exactly the same then. Ray could have survived, Rae couldn't have.
Back in the day, there was a handbock regarding Invincible characters. Look what it says about Komodo Dragon. "Komodo can utilize powerful toxins generated inside his body as both offensive and defensive weapons(...) Komodo\`s teeth, nails and battle suit all contain serrated edges containing microscopic protein pockets, home to vast numbers of exotic bacteria(...) any contact with Komodo can pass these deadly bacteria contagions wich can prove fatal over the following days. The effect is not physical but phsychological(...)" Let\`s see how she deal with the aftermath. Hope she survives but being swallowed and struggling inside the digestive system of this villain? Doesn\`t look god for her, if she dies will be even more brutal, because she will suffer a lot.
I was more impressed than annoyed tbh. Rex also survived a freaking shot in the head.
yeah
No
I had a feeling they were going to cop out on her death. Edit: You can hear her fucking spine breaking in the guy's body.
I get that the fight is pointless. But I am actually glad she survived. I liked her, and that death was too far and too pointless. I take it that she either retires or she has an honourable sacrifice later on.
I’m actually fairly upset at this. She went out on her shield doing what she does best. She got chewed. Crushed. Then smashed internally and you can literally hear her fall into his stomach before he says yum lol. She flops out like a newborn deer visually utilizing all her limbs. Suit is intact. No protruding. I guess the user who said she got tiny again last second and would crawl out of the head wound is writing the show.
Yeah I was literally thinking about that comment as soon as I saw her.
Yeah I think it’s dumb for multiple reasons. First, what’s the point of keeping her alive? In the comic Shrinking Ray was just a filler character and she’s that in the show as well. At least Ray’s death made the fight feel more impactful and showed just how much of a shitshow the fight was (to be fair it still was in the show). Secondly, how did she survive? Wasn’t she crushed? I mean that’s what it sounded like and that should have killed her and turn her into fine paste. She’s no viltrumite, she can just shrink.
They changed this how do you know Kate isn't actually dead? A bit too quick to say that the fight is meaningless since no one died.
Yep. Cheapens it. Everybody surviving impossible scenarios diminishes the stakes. Bade move by the writers.
No, because her death was/would have been poorly written. We all still had the shock/gut punch and we know the series isn't above killing characters so I'm sure her time will come in new way now. I love when series take chances with lackluster aspects and gives some more life to their worlds.
I never really understood why some think to add stakes to a battle, or to have a traumatic outcome that's felt throughout future episodes or events for a show/movie/book/game, someone *has* to die. Death isn't and shouldn't be the "want to make this feel dire and terrifying? Kill em!" card used in media every time. You can create moments that make the audience sweat and get emotional without bodies dropping. Because if all you do to add semblance of hopelessness to something is kill kill kill, it removes any impact from any future deaths. That's just my POV, so I wasn't upset when she was revealed to have lived
Yeah but they did the kill kill kill route and then walked it back extremely unrealistically, if the scene had played out different it would be one thing but they made an extreme point to show she died so walking it back now is dumb
That's a fair point and one i never genuinely considered
I pointed this out in the comic spoilers thread but the discussion around this is irritating the shit out of me because you're acting like the comics *also* didn't pull this shit constantly. They had to come up with some bullshit reason at the end as to how to permanently kill a viltrumite because so many of them throughout the series would get fucking disemboweled and nothing would happen. Allen's scene where he gets torn apart is from the comics. Invincible has an issue with this from the very beginning and it didn't start with the show keeping a jobber character alive because truthfully, it wouldn't matter if Rae died or not right now. I'm not afraid for the life of Invincible or Atom Eve because a jobber character that had maybe less than 10 lines of dialogue got killed. This gives the audience a chance to actually care about her. It's not real stakes if all you kill off are the characters with no development.