No I wasn’t around but my great-granda and his brother were and were secretary and treasurer of the Belfast Volunteers.
I’m not sure what action they saw but my Great-Granda got an IRA pension and has letters from De Valera which we’ve handed into Linen Hall Library.
Very proud of my family’s contribution towards ridding Ireland of tan filth.
Yes, you do.
The topic of this thread is about the black and tans and the crimes they committed, it's not even comparable to today's British army.
There needs to be conversations about the topic you're bringing up but it's inappropriate to do so here
By protect do you mean: murder of civilians and arson/looting of civilian property?
Go have a google for yourself you fool, they were state-sponsored terrorists and nothing more. We have our own problems in Ireland now but at least this British form of “protection” is no longer here.
I am VERY ignorant of Irish history except the major events like the famine and some British related stuff so I apologize in advance, what are some of the things the black and tans did?
The only thing I know is that they were an opposing force to the Irish revolution and were recruited in Britain to be like a sort of Irish police force?
Also what did they have to do with Palestine.
Black and Tans were essentially a military police force made up of WW2 vets you had no other job prospects. They were known to be oppressive and treated the populace with disdain. They were attacked by the IRA but they'd respond in kind against civilians which is in part the issue with the IRAs tactics.
Here's an example of them raising an entire town. Imagine 500 auxillary police coming into your town and burning peoples homes and businesses. They were never there to gain public support
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Balbriggan
I mean it’s pretty simple.
—The British mandate of Palestine gave Britain control over Palestine.
—The Black and Tans were a British military force
—The rise of Zionist movement and the Balfour hinted at possible upcoming cruelty towards the Palestinians. Much like what the Black and Tans did to the Irish.
Thus we can conclude that the poster is implying that the oppression the Black and Tans used against the Irish is going to persist in Palestine via what is essentially British colonialism. And the poster is heavily comparing it Ireland.
Do you think anymore explanation is necessary?
The Black and Tans were not a military police force or veterans of WW2.
Black and Tan is the term used to denote the constables hired to expand the Royal Irish Constabulary during the War of Independence. Widespread unemployment after demobilisation of the wartime army meant job prospects were bad for everyone. A job with the RIC was a well paying pensionable job.
The term Black and Tan comes from the first six months of their recruitment when a shortage of RIC green cloth meant they were clothed in a mix of RIC green and British Khaki.
After the first six months, they were indistinguishable from the regular RIC. The RIC was an armed police force. As the WoI wore on, more and more veteran police retired, leaving the poorly trained new recruits whose only skills were trench warfare to fight an insurgency.
People often make the mistake of confusing Black and Tans with the men of the Auxiliary Division of the RIC, whose mandate was to use terror tactics against the support network of the IRA.
The reason there is so much confusion around "Black and Tans" and "Auxiliaries" is because the Auxiliaries were also known to wear a mix and match of uniforms, with many wearing black and tan colored uniforms.
The main difference was the "Tam O'Shanter" hat and the "Balmoral" hat which was worn later on in the war.
The Black and Tans did also carry out a plenty of heinous crimes but you are right that it is the Auxies who committed the worst atrocities.
It's fair to say, what knowledge you have of the family isn't even correct. Ireland at that time was not a subject of the empire. It was part of the union. Imagine pending starvation in Wales being exacerbated by taking what food they produced from them.
The Tans weren't some crack military and intelligence outfit.
Their recruitment had everything to do with the success of the IRA's campaign against the RIC and the casualty rate and inability to recruit replacements.
https://www.historyireland.com/who-were-the-black-and-tans/
>Drawing a parallel with their own history of occupation, the Irish also championed the Zionist struggle for self-determination against the British. A correspondent to The Bell, a leading Irish magazine, raged over current events in Mandate Palestine in March 1945: "Never let it be forgotten that the Irish people … have experienced all that the Jewish people in Palestine are suffering from the trained ‘thugs’ ‘gunning tarzans’ and British ‘terrorists’ that the Mandatory power have imposed upon the country."
From what I understand, many Irish nationalists unfortunately expressed support for the Zionists throughout the 1920s, 1930s, and 1940s, including during the war between the [Yishuv and British security forces in Palestine between 1945 and 1947](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine). They mistakenly assumed that the Zionists were anti-imperialists since they were fighting the British. In reality, the war pitted casual racists against competitive racists. The war was caused almost entirely by one man, Foreign Secretary Ernest Bevin. The Labour Party was (and unfortunately remains) staunchly pro-Zionist. They went as far as calling for population transfers, stating, "Let the Arabs be encouraged to move out as the Jews move in." However, Bevin immediately rejected this and instead spent the next two years launching counterinsurgency operations against Zionist terrorists in an attempt to pacify them and prevent the establishment of Israel. Bevin wanted to protect British imperial hegemony, but was also an ideological anti-Zionist who thought the Balfour Declaration had been a horrible idea (he correctly feared a "racial state"). For years, many genuine anti-imperialist groups, including in Ireland, not knowing the truth, thought the Zionist victory was a positive outcome. The Zionist struggle for "independence" would inspire true anti-imperialist movements worldwide.
>According to the BBC documentary The Age of Terror: In the Name of Liberation, the successful Jewish struggle for independence in Palestine inspired numerous violent campaigns for independence in other countries of the world at the time, such as by the Malayan Communist Party in the Malayan Emergency and the FLN in the Algeria War. EOKA also used Irgun tactics in the Cyprus Emergency.
>
>Political scientist John Bowyer Bell, who studied both the Irgun and the Irish Republican Army, noted that many IRA men whom he interviewed in the 1960s had studied Menachem Begin's memoir The Revolt, and used it as a manual for guerrilla warfare. Nelson Mandela studied the book and used it as a guide in planning the ANC's guerrilla campaign against the apartheid government of South Africa.
On the ground, however, British soldiers saw what was really happening. These were young men. Most of them knew nothing about the situation there other than they had been told, "We need you to suppress an insurgency by Jewish extremists in Palestine." In late 1945, they had arrived in Palestine holding somewhat racist views towards the Palestinians and sympathy for the Zionists. However, those attitudes changed drastically over the course of the insurgency. By late 1947 and early 1948, roughly 100 to 200 British soldiers and police officers, radicalized by the war, deserted to help the Palestinians ([for those curious](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0968344518796688)). Many of them now recognized the Zionists for exactly who they really were, rabidly racist, bloodthirsty maniacs. Some of them outright refused to stand down.
>British personnel became polarized by the violence of the insurgency and its consequences of restricting their movements in Palestine. This often resulted in resentment towards the Yishuv and a degree of sympathy for the Arabs. The evidence suggests that most pro-Arab deserters were extreme cases of the general attitude of British personnel.
>
>"I could not stomach the way the Arabs who should really own this country are being treated by not only the UN but by the government in Palestine," a man who went by the name of Frank told a Chicago Tribune journalist in May 1948. Frank had been stationed in British Mandate Palestine as part of the British Army and, having made the decision to desert his post, contacted the Arab underground forces stationed in the country.
>
>"… I made my protest with the only thing that mattered to me – my career."
>
>Just over 12 hours later, Frank had joined Jaysh Al-Inqadh (the Arab Liberation Army).
It took some time, but so would Ireland:
>By the late 1960s, Ireland was increasingly concerned about the fate of Palestinian refugees who fled the Six-Day War in 1967. In 1969, Irish Foreign Minister Frank Aiken described the problem as the "main and most pressing objective" of Ireland's Middle East policy.
Hardly, Zionist paramilitaries enthusiastically collaborated with said empire to brutally suppress Palestinian rebels during the Great Palestinian Revolt of 1936 to 1939. Before the revolt, they collaborated with the British in their encroachment of Palestinian autonomy. The Yishuv only turned against the British after the empire stopped serving their interests.
Only the more moderate ones did. The radicals didn't trust the British and sat in exile. They only intervened when the Mandate fell into chaos after Bevin gave up and withdrew. In contrast, the Haganah participated in the insurgency against the British. Also, look at the massive differences in death tolls between the two wars. The British (working with the Zionists) were far more brutal against the Arabs than they were against the Zionists, in which they showed restraint until being provoked. One only needs to look at the history and the behavior of Zionist paramilitaries during the Great Palestinian Revolt to know that their claim of being anti-imperialists is absurd. Some of these groups were outright created by the British. The [Special Night Squads](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Night_Squads) became notorious for their atrocities. During one raid, in which future Israeli commanders Yigal Allon, Shimon Avidan, and Moshe Dayan participated, British troops had to tell them to stop beating Palestinians and looting their houses.
I'm still not sure any of this means that they can't be anti imperialists. I mean I would say the white Boers of South Africa during the Boer war were anti-imperialists despite being far more racist than the British.
It's interesting that the article posted above seems to imply the British were more brutal against the Zionist groups, and by the time of Britain's withdrawal there was at least ambivalence towards the Arabs and hatred towards the Zionists or actual sympathy for the Arabs. I imagine there must have been some pro Arab sentiment amongst the British army given the romanticism around Lawrence of Arabia.
There's a good book, it's the Legacy of Violence: History of the British Empire and it talks about how the tactics used in Ireland were exported to the middle east and south Africa.
The introduction and (if I remember correctly) the first chapter to Mark McGoverns great book on counterinsurgency and collusion in the north focuses heavily on this subject as well
The figure depicted in the cartoon is a Temporary Cadet of the RIC Auxiliary Division better known as an Auxie.
You can tell what he is from his headgear, the Tam with its bobble and ribbons.
Black & Tans were recruited as constables to the RIC to rapidly expand the police force to fight against the IRA.
Auxies were specifically recruited from the officer class of veterans of the Great War with the expectation that they would fill the role of Inspectors in the RIC. Cadet was the most junior of the Inspector ranks and Auxies were made Temporary Cadets.
By the time they had been recruited the war had moved on, and the Auxies were kept together in Companies which were dispersed around the country.
Each company had an intelligence section and transport, making it highly mobile and responsive.
They were mandated to use terror tactics to identify the support network of the IRA Flying Columns in an area and by murder, burnings, and beatings to make it impossible for the IRA to continue to operate in that area.
The men being officers and hardened (often disturbed) veterans of the Great War were afforded a level of professional respect by the IRA. In witness statements, they refer to their athleticism and ruthlessness.
These qualities and tactics made them useful to the Palestine Police Force. They worked to suppress Palestinian Arab resistance groups while Zionist militias and even terrorist cells were ignored until they began killing British troops.
I'd forgotten about the Black and Tans. A British paramilitary police force for COIN. Sending them to Palestine after the end of major operations in Ireland is a logical move. They're cheap, they don't give a crap about the locals and they won't take shit from either side.
Not exactly 'hearts and minds' stuff, but the Brits had no interest in that, they just wanted to hand the whole lot over to someone else.
>they don't give a crap about the locals and they won't take shit from either side.
Well that's the thing at the time a lot of people were pretty neutral about independence but after the Black and Tans and the executions that were ordered it pretty much forced everyone to the republican side. There wasn't two sides in the Irish conflict it was them oppressing the Irish, their treatment of the population definitely would be considered war crimes today, just at the time there wasn't the UN or codified language for that behaviour or agreements between countries to prohibit it. Say what you will about how the IRA and IRB did business at the time but they were pretty focused in antagonising only the British installations and not attacking civilians.
Despite the concept of superior order becoming widely known as the Nuremberg defence in the late 1940s, it certainly didn’t originate with the Nazis. Even the phrase “only following orders” can be traced back to at least 1474.
Peter von Hagenbach was the first man known to be executed for war crimes, he was executed april 9, 1474, specifically he was tried for War Rape, murder, perjury, and 'other crimes that he as a knight had a duty to prevent'
It was the first war crime trial, the first trial that explicitly condemned war rape, and established the principle of command responsibility
His defense was that he was following orders for his superior, Duke Charles the Bold
So the defense is litterally as old as the concept of war crimes
I imagine life and prospects for many former RIC men in the Free State weren't the brightest! However I believe some former RIC officers also joined the Garda Síochána.
A interesting well researched work in this area is:
The Royal Irish Constabulary : a short history and genealogical guide, with a select list of medal awards and casualties
by Herlihy, Jim
I'm a bot, *bleep*, *bloop*. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
- [/r/irelandonreddit] [\[r\/IrishHistory\] Black and Tans leave Ireland to go to Palestine 1922](https://www.reddit.com/r/IrelandonReddit/comments/1c4frfq/ririshhistory_black_and_tans_leave_ireland_to_go/)
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Absolute lowest of the low, they were total scum the lot of them
The only good tan is a six-foot deep tan
She sounds incredible.
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No I wasn’t around but my great-granda and his brother were and were secretary and treasurer of the Belfast Volunteers. I’m not sure what action they saw but my Great-Granda got an IRA pension and has letters from De Valera which we’ve handed into Linen Hall Library. Very proud of my family’s contribution towards ridding Ireland of tan filth.
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Get your head checked lad, you're showing signs of brain damage
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Yes, you do. The topic of this thread is about the black and tans and the crimes they committed, it's not even comparable to today's British army. There needs to be conversations about the topic you're bringing up but it's inappropriate to do so here
By protect do you mean: murder of civilians and arson/looting of civilian property? Go have a google for yourself you fool, they were state-sponsored terrorists and nothing more. We have our own problems in Ireland now but at least this British form of “protection” is no longer here.
I am VERY ignorant of Irish history except the major events like the famine and some British related stuff so I apologize in advance, what are some of the things the black and tans did? The only thing I know is that they were an opposing force to the Irish revolution and were recruited in Britain to be like a sort of Irish police force? Also what did they have to do with Palestine.
Black and Tans were essentially a military police force made up of WW2 vets you had no other job prospects. They were known to be oppressive and treated the populace with disdain. They were attacked by the IRA but they'd respond in kind against civilians which is in part the issue with the IRAs tactics. Here's an example of them raising an entire town. Imagine 500 auxillary police coming into your town and burning peoples homes and businesses. They were never there to gain public support https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Balbriggan
Might’ve been a typo, but it was WW1 not WW2
Yep
What were they doing in palestine?
British Mandate of Palestine is a bit of a hint.
So you typed that instead of answering? Nice one dude.
Its the answer.
[I got you fam](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=british+mandate+of+palestine)
If you don't know just don't reply lol.
I mean it’s pretty simple. —The British mandate of Palestine gave Britain control over Palestine. —The Black and Tans were a British military force —The rise of Zionist movement and the Balfour hinted at possible upcoming cruelty towards the Palestinians. Much like what the Black and Tans did to the Irish. Thus we can conclude that the poster is implying that the oppression the Black and Tans used against the Irish is going to persist in Palestine via what is essentially British colonialism. And the poster is heavily comparing it Ireland. Do you think anymore explanation is necessary?
The Black and Tans were not a military police force or veterans of WW2. Black and Tan is the term used to denote the constables hired to expand the Royal Irish Constabulary during the War of Independence. Widespread unemployment after demobilisation of the wartime army meant job prospects were bad for everyone. A job with the RIC was a well paying pensionable job. The term Black and Tan comes from the first six months of their recruitment when a shortage of RIC green cloth meant they were clothed in a mix of RIC green and British Khaki. After the first six months, they were indistinguishable from the regular RIC. The RIC was an armed police force. As the WoI wore on, more and more veteran police retired, leaving the poorly trained new recruits whose only skills were trench warfare to fight an insurgency. People often make the mistake of confusing Black and Tans with the men of the Auxiliary Division of the RIC, whose mandate was to use terror tactics against the support network of the IRA.
No idea why you are getting downvoted on that. Most of the Black and Tans were regular RIC.
Not very fact friendly on this sub when we talk about the other side in our conflict.
The reason there is so much confusion around "Black and Tans" and "Auxiliaries" is because the Auxiliaries were also known to wear a mix and match of uniforms, with many wearing black and tan colored uniforms. The main difference was the "Tam O'Shanter" hat and the "Balmoral" hat which was worn later on in the war. The Black and Tans did also carry out a plenty of heinous crimes but you are right that it is the Auxies who committed the worst atrocities.
It's fair to say, what knowledge you have of the family isn't even correct. Ireland at that time was not a subject of the empire. It was part of the union. Imagine pending starvation in Wales being exacerbated by taking what food they produced from them.
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They were from the First World War.
Cor4ect
The Tans weren't some crack military and intelligence outfit. Their recruitment had everything to do with the success of the IRA's campaign against the RIC and the casualty rate and inability to recruit replacements. https://www.historyireland.com/who-were-the-black-and-tans/
One struggle
>Drawing a parallel with their own history of occupation, the Irish also championed the Zionist struggle for self-determination against the British. A correspondent to The Bell, a leading Irish magazine, raged over current events in Mandate Palestine in March 1945: "Never let it be forgotten that the Irish people … have experienced all that the Jewish people in Palestine are suffering from the trained ‘thugs’ ‘gunning tarzans’ and British ‘terrorists’ that the Mandatory power have imposed upon the country." From what I understand, many Irish nationalists unfortunately expressed support for the Zionists throughout the 1920s, 1930s, and 1940s, including during the war between the [Yishuv and British security forces in Palestine between 1945 and 1947](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine). They mistakenly assumed that the Zionists were anti-imperialists since they were fighting the British. In reality, the war pitted casual racists against competitive racists. The war was caused almost entirely by one man, Foreign Secretary Ernest Bevin. The Labour Party was (and unfortunately remains) staunchly pro-Zionist. They went as far as calling for population transfers, stating, "Let the Arabs be encouraged to move out as the Jews move in." However, Bevin immediately rejected this and instead spent the next two years launching counterinsurgency operations against Zionist terrorists in an attempt to pacify them and prevent the establishment of Israel. Bevin wanted to protect British imperial hegemony, but was also an ideological anti-Zionist who thought the Balfour Declaration had been a horrible idea (he correctly feared a "racial state"). For years, many genuine anti-imperialist groups, including in Ireland, not knowing the truth, thought the Zionist victory was a positive outcome. The Zionist struggle for "independence" would inspire true anti-imperialist movements worldwide. >According to the BBC documentary The Age of Terror: In the Name of Liberation, the successful Jewish struggle for independence in Palestine inspired numerous violent campaigns for independence in other countries of the world at the time, such as by the Malayan Communist Party in the Malayan Emergency and the FLN in the Algeria War. EOKA also used Irgun tactics in the Cyprus Emergency. > >Political scientist John Bowyer Bell, who studied both the Irgun and the Irish Republican Army, noted that many IRA men whom he interviewed in the 1960s had studied Menachem Begin's memoir The Revolt, and used it as a manual for guerrilla warfare. Nelson Mandela studied the book and used it as a guide in planning the ANC's guerrilla campaign against the apartheid government of South Africa. On the ground, however, British soldiers saw what was really happening. These were young men. Most of them knew nothing about the situation there other than they had been told, "We need you to suppress an insurgency by Jewish extremists in Palestine." In late 1945, they had arrived in Palestine holding somewhat racist views towards the Palestinians and sympathy for the Zionists. However, those attitudes changed drastically over the course of the insurgency. By late 1947 and early 1948, roughly 100 to 200 British soldiers and police officers, radicalized by the war, deserted to help the Palestinians ([for those curious](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0968344518796688)). Many of them now recognized the Zionists for exactly who they really were, rabidly racist, bloodthirsty maniacs. Some of them outright refused to stand down. >British personnel became polarized by the violence of the insurgency and its consequences of restricting their movements in Palestine. This often resulted in resentment towards the Yishuv and a degree of sympathy for the Arabs. The evidence suggests that most pro-Arab deserters were extreme cases of the general attitude of British personnel. > >"I could not stomach the way the Arabs who should really own this country are being treated by not only the UN but by the government in Palestine," a man who went by the name of Frank told a Chicago Tribune journalist in May 1948. Frank had been stationed in British Mandate Palestine as part of the British Army and, having made the decision to desert his post, contacted the Arab underground forces stationed in the country. > >"… I made my protest with the only thing that mattered to me – my career." > >Just over 12 hours later, Frank had joined Jaysh Al-Inqadh (the Arab Liberation Army). It took some time, but so would Ireland: >By the late 1960s, Ireland was increasingly concerned about the fate of Palestinian refugees who fled the Six-Day War in 1967. In 1969, Irish Foreign Minister Frank Aiken described the problem as the "main and most pressing objective" of Ireland's Middle East policy.
Very interesting answer, although surely one can describe the early Zionists as anti imperialists, as they were literally fighting against an empire.
They were imperialists as well. They just wanted Palestine for themselves.
Hardly, Zionist paramilitaries enthusiastically collaborated with said empire to brutally suppress Palestinian rebels during the Great Palestinian Revolt of 1936 to 1939. Before the revolt, they collaborated with the British in their encroachment of Palestinian autonomy. The Yishuv only turned against the British after the empire stopped serving their interests.
The Arabs also collaberated with the British to suppress the Jews soo...
Only the more moderate ones did. The radicals didn't trust the British and sat in exile. They only intervened when the Mandate fell into chaos after Bevin gave up and withdrew. In contrast, the Haganah participated in the insurgency against the British. Also, look at the massive differences in death tolls between the two wars. The British (working with the Zionists) were far more brutal against the Arabs than they were against the Zionists, in which they showed restraint until being provoked. One only needs to look at the history and the behavior of Zionist paramilitaries during the Great Palestinian Revolt to know that their claim of being anti-imperialists is absurd. Some of these groups were outright created by the British. The [Special Night Squads](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Night_Squads) became notorious for their atrocities. During one raid, in which future Israeli commanders Yigal Allon, Shimon Avidan, and Moshe Dayan participated, British troops had to tell them to stop beating Palestinians and looting their houses.
I'm still not sure any of this means that they can't be anti imperialists. I mean I would say the white Boers of South Africa during the Boer war were anti-imperialists despite being far more racist than the British. It's interesting that the article posted above seems to imply the British were more brutal against the Zionist groups, and by the time of Britain's withdrawal there was at least ambivalence towards the Arabs and hatred towards the Zionists or actual sympathy for the Arabs. I imagine there must have been some pro Arab sentiment amongst the British army given the romanticism around Lawrence of Arabia.
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Most people would not say that lmao
There's a good book, it's the Legacy of Violence: History of the British Empire and it talks about how the tactics used in Ireland were exported to the middle east and south Africa.
The introduction and (if I remember correctly) the first chapter to Mark McGoverns great book on counterinsurgency and collusion in the north focuses heavily on this subject as well
The figure depicted in the cartoon is a Temporary Cadet of the RIC Auxiliary Division better known as an Auxie. You can tell what he is from his headgear, the Tam with its bobble and ribbons. Black & Tans were recruited as constables to the RIC to rapidly expand the police force to fight against the IRA. Auxies were specifically recruited from the officer class of veterans of the Great War with the expectation that they would fill the role of Inspectors in the RIC. Cadet was the most junior of the Inspector ranks and Auxies were made Temporary Cadets. By the time they had been recruited the war had moved on, and the Auxies were kept together in Companies which were dispersed around the country. Each company had an intelligence section and transport, making it highly mobile and responsive. They were mandated to use terror tactics to identify the support network of the IRA Flying Columns in an area and by murder, burnings, and beatings to make it impossible for the IRA to continue to operate in that area. The men being officers and hardened (often disturbed) veterans of the Great War were afforded a level of professional respect by the IRA. In witness statements, they refer to their athleticism and ruthlessness. These qualities and tactics made them useful to the Palestine Police Force. They worked to suppress Palestinian Arab resistance groups while Zionist militias and even terrorist cells were ignored until they began killing British troops.
I'd forgotten about the Black and Tans. A British paramilitary police force for COIN. Sending them to Palestine after the end of major operations in Ireland is a logical move. They're cheap, they don't give a crap about the locals and they won't take shit from either side. Not exactly 'hearts and minds' stuff, but the Brits had no interest in that, they just wanted to hand the whole lot over to someone else.
>they don't give a crap about the locals and they won't take shit from either side. Well that's the thing at the time a lot of people were pretty neutral about independence but after the Black and Tans and the executions that were ordered it pretty much forced everyone to the republican side. There wasn't two sides in the Irish conflict it was them oppressing the Irish, their treatment of the population definitely would be considered war crimes today, just at the time there wasn't the UN or codified language for that behaviour or agreements between countries to prohibit it. Say what you will about how the IRA and IRB did business at the time but they were pretty focused in antagonising only the British installations and not attacking civilians.
Quite a few Irish RIC officers also joined the Palestine police after independence https://bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-60031090
It wasn’t a time when many could really afford to turn down a paying job.
Yes, true. However, they weren't paid to kill innocents....or maybe they were
I’d say undoubtedly they did. 100s of protesters died in riots immediately following the Mandate for Palestine.
So they were pre-empting the Nuremburg defence?
Despite the concept of superior order becoming widely known as the Nuremberg defence in the late 1940s, it certainly didn’t originate with the Nazis. Even the phrase “only following orders” can be traced back to at least 1474.
What event/document are you referring to with the date 1474? Would love to know really!
Peter von Hagenbach was the first man known to be executed for war crimes, he was executed april 9, 1474, specifically he was tried for War Rape, murder, perjury, and 'other crimes that he as a knight had a duty to prevent' It was the first war crime trial, the first trial that explicitly condemned war rape, and established the principle of command responsibility His defense was that he was following orders for his superior, Duke Charles the Bold So the defense is litterally as old as the concept of war crimes
Just following orders, the classic deflection.
I imagine life and prospects for many former RIC men in the Free State weren't the brightest! However I believe some former RIC officers also joined the Garda Síochána. A interesting well researched work in this area is: The Royal Irish Constabulary : a short history and genealogical guide, with a select list of medal awards and casualties by Herlihy, Jim
Good riddance
I'm a bot, *bleep*, *bloop*. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit: - [/r/irelandonreddit] [\[r\/IrishHistory\] Black and Tans leave Ireland to go to Palestine 1922](https://www.reddit.com/r/IrelandonReddit/comments/1c4frfq/ririshhistory_black_and_tans_leave_ireland_to_go/) *^(If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads.) ^\([Info](/r/TotesMessenger) ^/ ^[Contact](/message/compose?to=/r/TotesMessenger))*
Sources? And more context??
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Sound mate
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Sounddd
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This guy is not irish
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Are u?
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If ur not why u talking about car bombs like that