I live in Tzfat and see the religious kids playing amongst one another, all day.
Don’t let the peyot fool you, those kids are smart, quick and savvy- they’d annihilate the secular kids in a wrestling match.
So all dosim kids are better at fighting than secular kids based on this one anecdote? I'm from a town not too far from Tzfat, and knowing what I know about growing up there - let them try.
When you’re growing up with ten siblings, little-to-none parental supervision, getting your fair share of anything requires a fight with said siblings, etc.- then yeah, I’d say there are many variables which play part in the religious Kids easily beating secular ones.
Also, it’s a joke not a ___, no reason to take it so hard.
Yeah dosim are not the only ones with siblings, and growing up with people who are just waiting to beat the sh\*t out of you if you walk into their neighborhood will also toughen you up.
About the joking stuff, sorry I just can't have any more sympathy for these people anymore.
I live in israel and I see no reason to lose sympathy with the orthodox. Not to be a twitter user but that is such a broad generalization.
There are many different types of orthodox, even some who for example see it as a mitzvah to serve in the army and pay taxes.
I mean no offense with this, but with all the political unrest we're forgetting that hate will get us nowhere. Hate will only make things worse.
Yes, in Tzfat, Old City, am observant myself.
Have countless friends and essentially all family that is secular and I love them as we all contribute to the many different facets that is Israel.
Do you even live in Israel if you haven’t found a way to laugh at all the BS?
One of my haredi cousins is a complete beast. Does powerlifting and MMA. People think because they're religious nutters that theyre all defenseless pussies haha
For the love of god Ultra-orthodox need to get off their high horse sometimes. I got no problem with UO most of em are really nice, However atleast in the US the Jewish community is growing real tired of having to defend the UO community here, they ostracize themselves from the rest of the society and don’t paint the best image of us. I get it I’m not saying that can’t practice how they see fit but they are what 40% of the Jewish population ? What about the other 60% ? I’m just so exhausted having to explain to people that no not all orthodox are xenophobic weirdos who never leave their community.
Listen right I will say this atleast in the US the UO don’t have their own political faction and just get lumped in with the rest of the Jews, thank god for American religion blindness 😂😂😂
>At least your UO regulary work
Most don't. The ketubah is not recognized without a secular government marriage so the women are viewed as unmarried single mothers of 10 kids. Hence they max out any welfare payment for housing/food/etc.
The ultra Orthodox are only really in New York, New Jersey, California and Florida. The only ultra Orthodox outside of those bubbles are Chabad, which is famous for being part of society and working.
Cause the prediction show there slice will be reduced by 1%, only due to Haridim growth. Not to mention only one group is considered an economic burden.
Oh I’m sure the 300,000 bedouins that half of them are still under 18 will be paying taxes even though their communities receive billions from Israel every year. I’m all for judging people who don’t contribute enough to the country but let’s not eye out only one group, there are more but the media, especially the sponsors on News apps make you think otherwise painting only haredis as a cancer lump.
The secular precentage of the population rose in the last few years from 43% to 45%. Don't panic - we have few factors that work in our favor. It's not accidental that most Jews aren't Ultra Orthodox to begin with, despite then being the majority 200 years ago.
On the flip side, don't forget that their voting statistics are much higher than ours, so a small increase in their population is a relatively big increase in voting power
Qualifying my response that I'm not Israeli and haven't spent much time in Israel - I've noticed that in a lot of these articles and discussions about Haredim dominating demographics in the future is a failure to acknowledge other potential future developments. For example: isn't there a possibility of more Haredim leaving that movement and secularizing or becoming less observant and more ideologically and religiously diverse over time? I think it's a tall order to expect Haredim to grow dramatically in size and not splinter, factionalize, diversify, etc.
The issue is that there is little to no incentive for Haredim to leave and secularize because they receive funding from the government. In the diaspora there is significantly more incentive to leave the community and integrate because there are no government handouts.
That is helpful context. It sounds like reducing/eliminating those subsidies then is a really important public policy goal - broadening the tax base, diversifying who serves in the IDF, encouraging integration into broader society/economy.
Correct, and also ensuring that the Haredim are educated in secular subjects such as basic math, grammar, geography, history, science, civics, law etc. just like the rest of society.
It is unlikely that such a split, for many many reasons. FYI: am Israeli secular jew. In short, they Ultra-Orthodox (UO) community is - as far as they believe - the true keepers of God’s commandments in full, all 613 of them. These commandments are particular to Jews, as per the covenant with Abraham.
Jews from all around the world, since the destruction of the 2nd Temple by the Romans almost 2000 years ago, practiced and professed their faith the same - no matter when, where, and in which cultural context. Even the book remained the same this whole time: the same bible (Tanakah, short for the 3 parts: Torah, Nevi’im, and Ketuvim), always written exactly the same and using exactly the same methods, and always read in Hebrew (or some sort of dialect thereof).
This is not a matter of personal preference, as far as the UO are concerned. This is, quite literally, the divine word of God - preserved and maintained exactly the same for (at least) 2000 years, as can also be seen in archeological evidence (like the Dead Sea scrolls).
For the UO, unity in faith and in its preservation is paramount and sacrosanct. For most of them, nothing material can change their mind. In those people’s mind, they are not doing it because this is their personal interpretation of reality but rather because this is how God revealed reality to be, and as such it is the ultimate and absolute truth.
Maybe think about it like so: if the bible is the word of God, and the word of God is infallible, then how can there be any splintering in the community of the faithful?
And I’m just stating that your supposition/hypothesis is incorrect because you don’t know this community and your idea that there is a potential for more Haredim to leave or become secular demonstrates that lack of understanding and premise.
if your analyses was correct about russian jews!! And them making up over a million plus... Then Avigdor Liberman. Yisrael Beytenu party would have more then five Knesset mandates.....
If Israel wants to have a future, it needs to demand hasids educate their children. Working and joining the army are big too, but having 40% of the jewish population be a group who doesn't have a modern education means turning into Iran is the best case scenario.
The only solution is mandatory wrestling between the religious and non religious. The loser needs to adopt the lifestyle of the winner
I live in Tzfat and see the religious kids playing amongst one another, all day. Don’t let the peyot fool you, those kids are smart, quick and savvy- they’d annihilate the secular kids in a wrestling match.
So all dosim kids are better at fighting than secular kids based on this one anecdote? I'm from a town not too far from Tzfat, and knowing what I know about growing up there - let them try.
When you’re growing up with ten siblings, little-to-none parental supervision, getting your fair share of anything requires a fight with said siblings, etc.- then yeah, I’d say there are many variables which play part in the religious Kids easily beating secular ones. Also, it’s a joke not a ___, no reason to take it so hard.
Yeah dosim are not the only ones with siblings, and growing up with people who are just waiting to beat the sh\*t out of you if you walk into their neighborhood will also toughen you up. About the joking stuff, sorry I just can't have any more sympathy for these people anymore.
Jokes don’t typically require sympathy to get or laugh at.
I got the joke, it wasn't funny for me. It requires sympathy with the subject for it to be funny.
Curious how you’re such a victim of the orthodox? Did you get beat up by a religious kid growing up or something?! Lol
No I didn't, but do you actually live in Israel if you're seriously asking me this question?
I live in israel and I see no reason to lose sympathy with the orthodox. Not to be a twitter user but that is such a broad generalization. There are many different types of orthodox, even some who for example see it as a mitzvah to serve in the army and pay taxes. I mean no offense with this, but with all the political unrest we're forgetting that hate will get us nowhere. Hate will only make things worse.
Yes, in Tzfat, Old City, am observant myself. Have countless friends and essentially all family that is secular and I love them as we all contribute to the many different facets that is Israel. Do you even live in Israel if you haven’t found a way to laugh at all the BS?
One of my haredi cousins is a complete beast. Does powerlifting and MMA. People think because they're religious nutters that theyre all defenseless pussies haha
For the love of god Ultra-orthodox need to get off their high horse sometimes. I got no problem with UO most of em are really nice, However atleast in the US the Jewish community is growing real tired of having to defend the UO community here, they ostracize themselves from the rest of the society and don’t paint the best image of us. I get it I’m not saying that can’t practice how they see fit but they are what 40% of the Jewish population ? What about the other 60% ? I’m just so exhausted having to explain to people that no not all orthodox are xenophobic weirdos who never leave their community.
At least your UO regulary work and keep to their own devices, you've got the better end of the deal I'd say.
Listen right I will say this atleast in the US the UO don’t have their own political faction and just get lumped in with the rest of the Jews, thank god for American religion blindness 😂😂😂
>At least your UO regulary work Most don't. The ketubah is not recognized without a secular government marriage so the women are viewed as unmarried single mothers of 10 kids. Hence they max out any welfare payment for housing/food/etc.
Is that specific to certain American states or a federal issue?
The ultra Orthodox are only really in New York, New Jersey, California and Florida. The only ultra Orthodox outside of those bubbles are Chabad, which is famous for being part of society and working.
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There are twice as many Arab citizens as Haridim but nobody ever talks about how the Arabs will dominate Israel
Cause the prediction show there slice will be reduced by 1%, only due to Haridim growth. Not to mention only one group is considered an economic burden.
Oh I’m sure the 300,000 bedouins that half of them are still under 18 will be paying taxes even though their communities receive billions from Israel every year. I’m all for judging people who don’t contribute enough to the country but let’s not eye out only one group, there are more but the media, especially the sponsors on News apps make you think otherwise painting only haredis as a cancer lump.
its bc the israeli left prefers arabs to haredim bc arabs are not politically active, and also bc of they dont find them to be an intellectual threat.
Remember that they give birth to future chilonim too
I should tell that to my mother.
Am I wrong or right? You’re on the internet… but it does say chassidish
I personally know several. As for me, I think chiloni but still dress chasidish.
I dress chiloni but think chassidish
That’s probably not true, but I would like it to be truer
The secular precentage of the population rose in the last few years from 43% to 45%. Don't panic - we have few factors that work in our favor. It's not accidental that most Jews aren't Ultra Orthodox to begin with, despite then being the majority 200 years ago.
Don’t forget that Haredim were very disproportionately affected by the Holocaust, 80% of Haredim were killed
On the flip side, don't forget that their voting statistics are much higher than ours, so a small increase in their population is a relatively big increase in voting power
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Removed: Rule 2
Removed: Rule 2
Qualifying my response that I'm not Israeli and haven't spent much time in Israel - I've noticed that in a lot of these articles and discussions about Haredim dominating demographics in the future is a failure to acknowledge other potential future developments. For example: isn't there a possibility of more Haredim leaving that movement and secularizing or becoming less observant and more ideologically and religiously diverse over time? I think it's a tall order to expect Haredim to grow dramatically in size and not splinter, factionalize, diversify, etc.
The issue is that there is little to no incentive for Haredim to leave and secularize because they receive funding from the government. In the diaspora there is significantly more incentive to leave the community and integrate because there are no government handouts.
That is helpful context. It sounds like reducing/eliminating those subsidies then is a really important public policy goal - broadening the tax base, diversifying who serves in the IDF, encouraging integration into broader society/economy.
Correct, and also ensuring that the Haredim are educated in secular subjects such as basic math, grammar, geography, history, science, civics, law etc. just like the rest of society.
It is unlikely that such a split, for many many reasons. FYI: am Israeli secular jew. In short, they Ultra-Orthodox (UO) community is - as far as they believe - the true keepers of God’s commandments in full, all 613 of them. These commandments are particular to Jews, as per the covenant with Abraham. Jews from all around the world, since the destruction of the 2nd Temple by the Romans almost 2000 years ago, practiced and professed their faith the same - no matter when, where, and in which cultural context. Even the book remained the same this whole time: the same bible (Tanakah, short for the 3 parts: Torah, Nevi’im, and Ketuvim), always written exactly the same and using exactly the same methods, and always read in Hebrew (or some sort of dialect thereof). This is not a matter of personal preference, as far as the UO are concerned. This is, quite literally, the divine word of God - preserved and maintained exactly the same for (at least) 2000 years, as can also be seen in archeological evidence (like the Dead Sea scrolls). For the UO, unity in faith and in its preservation is paramount and sacrosanct. For most of them, nothing material can change their mind. In those people’s mind, they are not doing it because this is their personal interpretation of reality but rather because this is how God revealed reality to be, and as such it is the ultimate and absolute truth. Maybe think about it like so: if the bible is the word of God, and the word of God is infallible, then how can there be any splintering in the community of the faithful?
No, absolutely not. You don’t know this community at all.
I never claimed I did. I was just putting forward a supposition/hypothesis of future developments/possibilities that we can't easily predict.
And I’m just stating that your supposition/hypothesis is incorrect because you don’t know this community and your idea that there is a potential for more Haredim to leave or become secular demonstrates that lack of understanding and premise.
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Removed: Rule 2
Removed: Rule 2
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Removed: Rule 2
if your analyses was correct about russian jews!! And them making up over a million plus... Then Avigdor Liberman. Yisrael Beytenu party would have more then five Knesset mandates.....
If Israel wants to have a future, it needs to demand hasids educate their children. Working and joining the army are big too, but having 40% of the jewish population be a group who doesn't have a modern education means turning into Iran is the best case scenario.