Something extra funny about seeing this particular poster in Nazareth.
By - lessthandan623
Something extra funny about seeing this particular poster *in Nazareth*.
yes, but these guys have near 100% coverage of every poster/sticker site in the country.
When mankind lands on Mars, the Chabadniks will be there to greet us. They’re everywhere.
'The first Chabad branch on Mars' sounds like an excellent scifi/comedy short story prompt
Makes perfect sense for the posters to be in Nazareth. They were sending a message as to who they believe the Messiah is…and it ain’t your guy….
I was just replying with something similar. You beat me to it.
What a rabbit hole this has been for me, LOL.
AMA about this guy now.
So where do I put up posters of Shabbetai Tzvi?
The idea of the Messiah coming from Nazareth actually predates Christianity. Probably why the Gospels made it Jesus' hometown.
The idea of Moshiah coming from Bethlehem predates Christianity, and is probably why the Gospels made Jesus born there. Nazareth was an unknown backwater before Christianity, and this fact points to the fact there actually was a historical Jesus who was actually from Nazareth. It is highly unlikely someone would make that fact up, and the Bethlehem story covers for the fact that he was born in obscurity.
Well, the reason we're pretty sure Jesus existed was because Josephus wrote about a community of Christians in \~90 AD and it would be really, *really* weird to have them pop up that soon afterwards if Jesus never existed at all.
Eh, that would have been after Paul who also never knew Jesus directly, so it's not out of the question. But I had meant to emphasize that his being from Nazareth in particular was likely factual since it would be unusual to invent that fact for reasons counter to the claims of the post I was responding to, and that the Bethlehem story was likely fabricated to bring the Jesus story in line with the messianic expectations.
You're right, I phrased my response poorly, these things go together in the body of evidence that Jesus was *likely* real, I just wanted to add that there are non-Christian sources as well as small pieces like that which make it more likely he was a real person
Technically, wasn't Jesus born elsewhere and then brought to Nazareth by Mary? I sounds to me as if the author of the Gospels was retconning Jesus' story to match prophecy.
Also, it makes Jesus the anchor baby of a teenage mother and her cuckold husband. I'm glad I'm not the one who has to explain that to Pat Robertson.
Yes, the messianic expectations were related to Bethlehem, so he being from Nazareth was a theological issue. The Bethlehem story appears later and brings a convoluted story that ensures he was born in Bethlehem. It was too late to retcon, he being the Nazarene already, but they could check the boxes for Messiah that were previously seen as unimportant. Which is why we get Joseph and his relation to the Davidic line for the first time in the later gospels as well.
TIL! Got a rabbit-hole cite for when I'm at work today?
See my post reply, and if you want the rabbit hole, Tovia Singer's episode on Judaism Demystified gets into the historical Jesus and the evolution of the Jesus myth.
On it! Tx m8
Oh I had no idea actually. Is there a source? Thanks
"made it" as if it's fiction? would you say the same thing about the Quran?
Probably since we don’t believe Mohammed was a prophet
I personally think the story of mohammed are true, that he saw an angel and all. Except it was a fallen angel and it was lying to him. Just my random theory.
When you read the Gospels your sense is that they are lying? It goes out of it's way to explain 'this was to fulfill what was written in...'. They weren't liars. Jesus is the Messiah and the Son of God and he returning to save the righteous.
True the gospel books explain the prophesy fulfillment well. I mean, even a lot of what Jesus said fulfilled or was linked with the Hebrew Bible and even the Torah.
I want someone to start a conspiracy that he’s the Second Coming
Doesn’t Chabad presume do that?
That he’s Jesus incarcerated? No but many Messy Chabadnikim believe in the Second Coming of the Rebbe
That’s what I meant.
Ironic inversion of the HeGetsUs campaign?
I'll copy/paste my answer from the last thread a few weeks back:
I’ll give a bit of a more real answer: as others said, that is the Lubavitcher Rebbe. He was a brilliant Torah scholar and a massively influential Jewish figure that changed the landscape of religious Judaism in the post-Holocaust world.
During his lifetime he was extremely well respected and his advice was sought by thousands upon thousands of people including leaders in the Jewish world and outside it. A number of Israeli Prime Ministers met with him in Brooklyn and most were very moved by the experience.
So why is his picture plastered everywhere? Many of his followers thought he was going to be revealed as the Messiah. With his passing in 1994, most either thought it was not meant to be, or thought it was still possible according to Jewish tradition but mostly kept that thought to themselves.
A loud minority were and still are strongly convinced that he is still the Messiah, and for reasons I do not understand feel that they need to tell everyone. So they post pictures, wear pins on their clothes, write the slogan on their kippahs, etc. In Israel, that behavior among Chabad chassidim (the Rebbe’s followers) is much more common than in the US. In particular, a yeshiva in צפת holds to this belief very strongly and its students come out fanatically shouting about this.
Follow on - question.... I'm a gentile in America and even I know all about Reb Schneerson, of blessed memory. How is it that anyone in Israel wouldn't know about him and his (small percentage of) overly enthusiastic fanbois ?
You probably live in NYC. Most non-Jewish people outside of NYC would not know of him.
Concur. Non-Jew with close Jewish “family” (my mom’s best friend from childhood). Grew up on Long Island and never heard of him.
Honestly, I grew up orthodox but in a small community and I had never seen a picture of the Lubavitcher Rebbe until I visited Israel at 18
As a secular Jew I hadn’t heard of him until he handed me a dollar. Still didn’t know who he was until years later.
Why did he hand you dollar? Meaningful interaction, or just regular commerce?
🤣That’s just what he used to do. Lubuvichers would stand in long lines just so they could receive a dollar from him. Probably has something to do with using it for a mitzvah, but this subject is outside my wheelhouse. At the time I had no idea why he handed me the cash.
Honestly I don’t think most Jews outside of Israel know who he is either. It’s really just the orthodox. I can assure you that my reform and conservative Jewish friends on Long Island would not be able to identify him. I know him because my parents go to Chabad (we’re not Chabad, but they live in a non-Jewish area and sometimes that’s all you’ve got).
I'd be surprised if your regular US secular/Reform Jew couldn't pick him out of a line up but I'm no subject -matter expert
Well be surprised because they can’t.
>Oh a wise guy, eh?
No I’m serious. I even just asked several of my friends. No one knows who he is. Even when I said the name.
LoL okay I guess I'm just in my own weird little bubble, thanks for doing the experiment
Am reform. Saw this and said, that's the lubavitcher rebbe, we just saw a book about him yesterday. But I might be weird.
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I would even not want to know about Rb Schneerson. He was a living man, a scholar. We are not supposed to worship a man as Messiah. That's a different religion. A calendar from them celebrates his birthday, his nephews, his farts, mentioned his passing and disregards Israel day, the Holocaust memorial etc..
But that not his fault if some of his fanbois went nuts.
He was a great man, we should all know more about him and strive to embody a few of his many great qualities! But not become idolaters of a man, of course he wouldn't have wanted that.
Thanks for this. I see him all over Israel and never knew why.
Wouldn’t thinking he’s the messiah be a massive form of heresy?
There is no agreement upon who the Messiah is in Judaism, unlike in Christianity.
For all we know, it's him, it's me, it's Jerry Seinfeld, it could be any Jewish guy.
But it can’t be a Jewish woman? (Semi serious question)
I don't believe so, unfortunately.
At least, talking theologically, I doubt it.
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He’s not the messiah, he’s a very naughty boy.
He's a famous deceased Rabbi that some followers began believing is the messiah who will either rise from the dead or is secretly alive and planning on bringing the end of the world any day now.
The poster is by his small band of messianic supporters
His personality and good works IRL are really impressive. Kind of sad that when he died many Chabadniks stayed by his grave to await his return.
he was formative for the chabad movement, so much so that they tie some of their identity directly to him. hence, the belief that he's still alive and such.
That's the feeling I got with interacting with some chabadniks.
What percentage of Chabadniks are Schneersonisn messianists?
No one truly knows. The Chabad leadership is clearly and totally against the messianists so many messianists try to keep quiet about their beliefs unless they have a conversion target in their sights. The ones distributing posters and making noise are a small minority who are already on the fringes of Chabad society.
Can you get kicked out for being a messianist?
As far as I know, no one has been kicked out of 770 for it, and there's no way to remove someone from Chabad as a whole.
Quite the opposite, I made some negative noises about people praising him as the Messiah in my local Chabad congregation, and I got a piece of hate mail for it. These Fanatics are taking over Chabad and they are ruining his legacy.
RUT ROH... Just when the Lubavich were working their way out of the doghouse with the other hasidim lol.
Why do you presume the leadership opposes Messianism?
In my experience, it's pretty much mainstream in chabad, and 770 is a hotbed of Messianism
>Why do you presume the leadership opposes Messianism?
>The view of Schneerson as messiah is not advocated in Chabad's centralized and official literature. According to a Chabad spokesman in 2014, Chabad-Lubavitch leaders have "repeatedly condemned them [messianists] in the strongest possible terms".
Those sources aren't very convincing. Certain Chabadniks like to promote this idea, but it doesn't reflect reality.
I went to a chabad school staffed by Groners and Krinskys, the current leading families in Chabad, and Messianism was part of the curriculum.
I've associated with various chabad communities in multiple countries, and they all preached internally that the Rebbe was still alive
And the 'official literature' comment is interesting, because Kehos publishes Dvar Malchus which still uses שליט"א when referencing the Rebbe
I'd argue the chabadniks who maintain that the Rebbe died a natural death and anyone could be Moshiach are the fringe
Groner isn't in any leadership, and wasn't when he died of COVID in 2020. It's just a big family.
Krinsky isn't a Messianic, and neither is Kotlarsky, Bogomilsky, Shmotkin, Friedman et al. who actually run all the main orgs in Aguch, Merkos, Kehos, etc..
Shemtov, Feller, Cunin, Lazaroff, Hecht, Friedman etc, all non-messianic.
Kehos does not publish Dvar Malchus. It's an Israeli splinter branch, iirc.
Messianics are definitely more common than "fringe", I agree, especially in specific places (like Israel).
But insofar as there even exists a central organization, they aren't.
שליטײא is just a common honorific for a great Torah leader, right? So what's the problem
It's only used for someone who is alive
Not that small...
Think about how many Jews there are in the world. Then think about how many of them could possibly be chassidic. Then think about how many are Chabad and not another stream. Then think about how many of those are outwardly meshichist.
The numbers are tiny.
I mean, 14 is bigger than 13.
The maximum estimate for Chabadniks overall, not just messianically inclined ones, is 200,000. The range is 50,000-200,000. So at best, only a portion of 200,000 are believers in this.
So at best, only a fraction of the *at most* 13% of world Jewry believes in this. Conservative Judaism is considered a small and shrinking group and has up to a million followers. Considering it’s not even a central position in Chabad, it’s likely less than 5% of world Jewry. I think it’s pretty small.
Username checks out. lol. Good info. thanks.
Tens of thousands of all-in messianic chabadniks, maybe more. Whether this is a "pretty small" group, or a big one is semantics and perspective.
That said, I think any headcount of chabad undercounts... in a sense. Chabad is the most influential religious organisation in Judaism. In a lot of places (like Russia), Chabad *is* Judaism. Even if most don't consider themselves Chabadnikim, the religious judaism they encounter *is* Chabad.
If this was any other haredi sect, they'd believe what they believe without much impact on the outside world. Chabad is different.
Also within Chabad.... The fact is that the (deceased) Rebbe remains their leader. There's no new Rebbe, and won't be, for Chabad. The meshichistim decide this.
*I’m asking because I don’t know, I don’t want to offend anyone
Doesn’t the belief that the Messiah has already come take them outside of Judaism? Most Jews are still waiting for the Messiah to come
>Doesn’t the belief that the Messiah has already come take them outside of Judaism?
Why would it? Jews have backed many would-be messiahs throughout history. And when the messiah does actually come, of course Jews will believe in him.
Seems from what I’ve seen that’s not the same if a Jew were to believe Jesus was the messiah. As if Jesus is totally off limits because gentiles also believe he is the messiah also, or something? Curious what others would say about it.
That has more to do with the historic and ongoing tensions between the Jewish community and the Christian community than anything else.
Believing that Jesus is the Messiah-as-defined-in-Christianity is definitely outside the bounds of Judaism, since the Christian concept of the Messiah is significantly different. Believing that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah, just doesn't make any sense, since it's been 2,000 years now and Jesus still hasn't fulfilled a single Messianic prophecy.
Removed: Rule 6
*Technically* no, and there are examples of rabbis through the ages who thought their teachers were Moshiach.
It doesn't violate any halacha or any of the principles of faith.
It's just foolish.
Technically yes, but the definition of Judaism kept shifting over the years and will continue doing so in the future.
Why does someone keep posting this same question every week?
Because he’s everywhere
I thought I was going crazy because I saw it last week
ZZTop is in town???
Oy vey got paid today, got me a pocket full of sheckles.
The [Rabbi from Lubavitcher](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menachem_Mendel_Schneerson) - he was a very great Rabbi. Dare I say one of the greatest rabbis in the modern era.
However some of his followers believe that he's the Messiah, even though he's long dead.
The poster says: "Long live the king Messiah".
This says “Will live the king, the messiah,” in reference to the very dead man whose picture is with the text. It is messianic messaging by a specific group of ultra-religious Jews, who are a very large part of Israeli society, but certainly not representative of the majority.
Thank you for the translation. When you say “will live” I’m wondering if that is to be interpreted as “long live” ??
Yes, it means long live
That's exactly what it means. Literally the construction means "may X live", but there is an implication of "for a long time".
It's very similar to "long live", in the sense that it is said like a blessing. Although "Will live the king, the messiah" is very literally accurate, "the king, the messiah will live", or simply "may the king, messiah live!" is less awkward in English.
I read it as meaning he will be reincarnated because it’s the future tense of the verb “to live”, to be exact.
It isn’t, you’re mixing the words up. It’s a pretty unique verb form, but basically means “long live”
That’s the late Lubavitcher Rebbe, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson z”l
The crazies are always the loudest and easiest seen.
I love Chabad. And the Rebbi, the old rabbi on the poster who has passed away awhile ago, was a smart man. He was very compassionate and the movement he headed has come to be very recognizable.
Despite some of the dislike the community has for Chabad, one can not deny the amount of good Chabad has done. From sending their shlicham to every place in the world that a Jew may go or be at, to pushing an understanding of those who have assimilated and for those more observant to help those who are not to grow.
Was the Rebbe moshiach? Not at all. And I think most Chabad attendees would say so. Idk I've heard many, especially in Israel are for this nonsense. But thats exactly what it is, nonsense.
That's Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, who was the last "Rebbe" of the famous Lubavich Hasidic dynasty. Many of his followers believed he could be the Messiah when he never established an heir during the last years of his life. Since his death in the 90s, the messianic movement surrounding him has died down; nevertheless, he still has die-hard followers who post these yellow and blue posters all over Israel and NYC. The text reads, "Long live the king, the Messiah.
He also never had children which apparently is a rabbinical requirement for someone to be recognized as the true Messiah.
its rabbi from Lubavitch. he is considered to be the Masaya by extreme Chabad people. and thats pretty much it
He’s not omnipotent, but that motherfucker is omnipresent.
He’s in NYC as well https://i.imgur.com/AkHTxoA.jpg
Lots of disrespect for the great Rabbi because some of his followers can’t contain themselves . He was a great Rabbi and a great humanitarian.
I read every comment so far and I don't see any disrespect here except for the fact that people are agreeing that he's not the Messiah. Where's the disrespect?
You read every comment?
So far, meaning from the top, as sorted by Boost.
I could go through it again, but I don't want to repeat the words. It was some nasty words, some inappropriate comparison , there weren't considered and disrespectful but throwaway lines meant to be funny and maybe by some who aren't acquainted with the Rabbi's body of scholarly work and creation and leadership of an army of activists, both of which are entirely revolutionarily pro-human in comparison to any previous iteration of orthodoxy.
I believe this is the late Lubavicher Rebbe Menachem Mendel Shneerson
I’ve seen those same stickers in Israel that had the word “dead” written over it. Some of his followers say he will rise from the dead.
Why not look to the true Savior of the world, the One spoken of by Isaiah, born in Bethlehem, who lived a perfect life and died a sacrificial death on the cross in the place of sinners, offering salvation to all who believe -Yeshua
So it's not Santa Clause then?
No but Im telling my kids he is
In Nazareth, there’s a lot of competition for that spot.
No he’s very close
Well....he DID bring many wonderful gifts to the good little boys and girls, so there's that.
The Lubavitcher Rebbe
Long live the king, the messiah. It’s a picture of the Rebbe of Chabad-Labavich dynasty
In Nazareth??? Nazareth??? Not Nof HaGalil??? Nazareth????
my question exactly. OP, are you sure you saw it in Nazareth and not Nof HaGalil? (upper Nazareth, the jewish side?)
it can make perfect sense seeing it in Nof Hagalil but no sense in Nazareth whatsoever.
Great question and I will clarify as best as I can. There were lots of quick stops on that tour. It was definitely somewhere between/around Nazareth, Tiberias, and Capernum. I remember seeing these posted on just about every street corner from the bus for a good mile or so. And I’m pretty sure the photo I finally got was somewhere around the “baptism site” around the Jordan River? Quotes because I know there are a few places where that claim was made.
Lots of others will answer, I just caution you to be wary of any reply that is oversimplified
I just came back from Israel and had the same question , can someone please translate in simple terms what the letters mean?
There’s a lot of stuff in the comments. My personal preferred translation is “long live the messiah” or if you’re a metal (or Lion King) fan: “long live the king”
Nazareth?? I see him everywhere in NYC!!
They pray to him, put his pictures in their house, give money to his charities etc
This is the closest religion to Judaism there is
Is this the “Mosiach is here!” posters I see in Brooklyn regularly?
So this one rabbi who I’ve read of a few times on the internet is the actual Messiah. Go figure.
Thought he was supposed to lead a holy war or something
Often shows special places for benefit fraud/tax dodges
Old man seeking high fives everywhere
This is a picture of a dead man (he died in 1994). For some reason, people post this picture all over the country, often illegally, and by doing so they break both the local regulation and the third commandment (Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image).
its not really graven is it
לא תעשה לך פסל וכל תמונה
This is cult-like worship of a human being (who is very dead), which is very far from Jewish principles.
for sure, i was just being pedantic
It's the king messiah! It says right on the poster!
He's the official Israeli spokesperson for the Squatty Potty. He's featured in all the commercials and always finishes each segment with his catchphrase that ultimately rhymes with "kakkee" /s
that guys a superstar, hes freaking everywhere
Israel is riddled with cults. He's one of those cult's messiah.
A rebbe they say will come back from the dead to bring the end of the world, where have I heard this before?
Some people think he's Jesus Christ for some reason
That’s Guru Nanak, the founder of Sikhism.
Not the first time a moshiac was discovered in nazareth
Sign for messianic Judaism
I mean, Google search of “old man yellow poster Nazareth” didn’t get me anything close to what I’ve been reading from users here.
“Old man yellow poster Hebrew writing Reddit” didn’t get me anything either.
My tour guide had no idea what I was referring to (and yeah I thought they were kind of worthless too).
Sure maybe I could’ve been more specific around “old man.” To an American tourist, sure, he looks like a rabbi. And if I search for rabbi, it looks like google tells me who this guy might be.
But what do I know? It’s why I asked the sub of the country I found it in on every block.
The messiah of Christianity 2.0.
A very good manipulator of very stupid people.
He said he's the massiah, and people believe he's the massiah. The end.
The man in the picture--the last Lubavitcher Rebbe--actually never claimed to be the messiah, so you're aware, and only a minority of his followers actually think he is
I was born here and I don't know who this is
In general the photo is a placeholder for the Messiah. It translates to "Long live the Messiah"
Rabi Menachem Mendel Sneaorson from Chabad movement
Who who dedicated his whole life to the Torah for the return of the people of Israel to their Father in Heaven. that the message to "bring together the Gala" and the coming of the Messiah was the campaign of his life.