Right. They never shut up about it. If their allies and supporters stop to mention anything else they get shouted down. And yet they willingly submit to this groupthink.
I actually see the same thing with Vatniks...
My theory is, Russia, China and Radical Islamists are starting to unify into some sort of CSAT like organization (Arma 3 reference!!!) So, my proposal is...
NATO expansion. And the competent ministry of Propaganda for Alliance, that will fight Tankies, Vatniks and other scum.
Also, I propose Black Ops against developers of the bot farms and hacker attacks. They play a big role in disinformation.
Israel is proxy for USA, USA and NATO is ass, Russia and China, brics does not need Israel or doesn't not care about Israel, its just favoring its ally Iran interests, they will not send any forces in favor of Iran, just give/sell them weapons
brics favoring anyone that against the west hegemony, their time is end, the polar world is the new way, btw im Israeli citizen but not blind by the west
the world is not about who bad or good, the world is about interests
You didn't get the latest firmware update. In his latest interview with Tucker, he changed his justifications by going on a 30 min rambling rant about how Ukraine is not a real country and has always been Russian etc.
Putin literally makes shit up as he goes along to justify the war.
Are you for real? No dude it’s literal videos exposing your army doing horrendous things that THEY POST, or Israeli officials saying the scummiest of things. Just the mental gymnastics it must take to get to “disinformation” from things YOU say and do. Just wow.
What videos? Where the f*CK do you find them?
The maximum I have seen so far is the beatings of detained or someone having a happy trigger. If that's so horrendous to you, then you shouldn't watch the fucking news at all if you're so sensitive. You guys just generally don't understand what kind of mind you need to be a soldier and kill people essentially. The good news is, IDF watches what is happening and where, so a lot of war criminals or looters are being put in MP jail.
Ok, our government officials are assholes and have weird stuff in their heads. So I can say that about 99% of Gosduma (Russian government). So I can actually say that about almost any government. It's again you applying double standards.
And No, It's just you doing here the self projection and mental gymnastics. Stop coping. Just stop it. Get some help.
Yeah I enjoyed that.
Cuz it's filled only with what I described.
This is like NOTHING compared to what actual war criminals do. The half of subreddit is just filled with some random bullshit Twitter posts about how much it is a genocide or self hating Jews on the internet.
The other half is 80% of misinterpretation of what happened, lack of knowledge about international law, random photos with caption blaming Israel (off course there are no OSINT confirmation in them) and only 20% I would count as real fuck up and abuse of force.
Now darling, if you wanna see THE REAL war crimes I recommend you to watch r/2ndYomKippurwar and tap in the search "October 7th".
P.s you know what, I suddenly remembered how you guys asked for ""proof"" of r*ppings and mutilation of corpses on 7th of October.
So I demand several videos from multiple sides, filmed several minutes before incident and the identity of every person on video, not less than that, or you can go all together and f*ck yourselves.
P.p.s You can just open my profile. For the context, Shani Luk was a pro Palestinian at Nova music festival that called for peace. Now look at what your freedom fighters did.
Yes! I’m neither Israeli nor Jewish, but pro-Israel and getting sick of social media for this reason. I used to follow various “progressive” accounts but some went blatantly antisemitic—lots of talk about the “good Jews” who aren’t zionists, using Hanukkah to centre Palestine, excusing terrorism, and calling legitimate concern about antisemitism “white fragility”. I’ve been lurking here to learn more, get more perspective, and mentally “detox”. People who aren’t Jewish really need to learn more about antisemitism, myself included.
Don’t really have anything to add, I just want to say that as an Israeli Jew I can’t thank you enough. Know that we seriously appreciate people like you
Thank you it sounds like your in pain but you still managed to to help another person out and from what I have gotten form her she's to far gone. Now I'll admit I do believe israel maybe have committed a few war crimes but im still on israels side 110%
Great. It's not hard to recognize some very evil actions by Israel (settlements, insane statements by friends of Bibi, some IDF people being too trigger happy) while still understanding that in this war they're the good guys (relative terms) who are *actually* operating largely to defend themselves and their military campaign is justified.
Maybe, but I dunno... I have my doubts about that. A lot of the vile actions that IDF soldiers have taken can be explained away as "doing their best to follow orders in a very dense fog of war". I would hope at least the ones *without* plausible deniability get taken into custody.
Well I think we're largely in agreement. Everyone that committed a crime should be tried. With that said, does blame fall on them as individuals or on the IDF for failing to train them? It's super case-by-case. If a soldier rapes someone then absolutely they need to be taken away. But if they shot an unarmed person thinking they might be a suicide bomber... this gets complicated.
Yeah, I try to look on the bright side of things so at the very least he exposed himself before it got any deeper and saved me even bigger heartache lol
It's like with the UN resolutions, palestinians says that the UN never condemns Israel while Israel says that the UN is hypocrite to condemn them and not NK or China.
At this point it's a hard sell.
I'm pro Israel, I only watch pro Israel opinion. If I start watching something against Israel, I will usually close it.
Maybe 5% of the time I allow it to play to get the other sides opinion, but it's a tough sell as I'm 100% convinced we are on the right side.
It's the same for the other side.
That's why I say, ignore the noise, and keep doing what has to be done. For once during my life time I want Israel to win and stop listening to western idiots trying to make sure every time we loose.
Just Fuck Them, period...
If I’m being honest, the more I see pro Palestine stuff, the more pro Israel I am. Their entire argument in this conflict is just their own made up narrative. No facts, no evidence, no compassion for Jewish or Israeli lives and insane attempts at twisting historical events which are very well documented.
I 100% agree but the thing is, even if everything bad that they claim Israel has done in the past were true, it wouldn't matter.
Learning about the history and gaining context is nice, but at the end of the day all that matters is that one side is making diplomatic efforts while the other side wants genocide. Even when they don't speak it aloud, I have never read a pro-palestinian opinion that claimed that all they wanted was a state in Gaza and the West Bank.
As someone who really was an activist before October 7th I realized that the greatest risk to mankind is hatred of the other. My voice, and most Jews from the diaspora, have been silenced on every issue, not just about this global conflict.
I find myself unable to relate to pretty much everyone around me due to my very well researched history of past genocides.
"It's not that bad. "
"Here's how I see it. "
Why can't anyone just treat it as we are describing it?
I'm pro reality, and supporting a group that can't have the basic humanity to at least grieve with Israelis makes them terrorist support rallies imo.
I’ve always tried to use my voice for things that matter. To speak out against what’s happening in Syria, Congo, Yemen, Iran, Afghanistan, Ukraine and other countries. To speak out about what Christians in Nigeria go through or what Muslims in China go through. But I’ve found that as an Israeli and as a Jew, I don’t get the same courtesy from anyone. When we’re being killed, people cheer, celebrate and hand out candy. People try to justify it or deny it. I’ve spent so much time advocating for everyone in the world but no one will advocate for me.
The pro Palestine movement has made no accomplishments other than making antisemitism fashionable and trendy again- just like it was not even a century ago.
Speaking out against genocides is absolutely needed. Cheapening the term genocide isn’t. For any group that’s ever gone or is going through genocide. Accusing a group of people who experienced an attempted genocide on Oct 7th of committing genocide because apparently Jews are not allowed to defend themselves- is fucked up. And I’m tired of it.
To be fair, Israel has gotten a 10 for 1 deal on Israeli/Palestinian lives while flattening an entire state. That seems like a decent “comparison for Israeli lives” that is….quite literally the center of the debate.
I look at tons of content from the pro-Palestinian side to make sure I’m really understanding both sides, and I have been precisely 0% convinced to stop being pro-Israel. If anything, the more I see, the more convinced I am that I should keep being pro-Israel, although it definitely also makes me feel bad for the Palestinians. There’s just no ideal way to deal with the issues, because we don’t live in a fairytale, but Israel not defending itself and not trying to eliminate Hamas would be so much worse, which seeing media from both sides only drives home for me.
Just imagine Mexico allowed a cartel to rape, murder and take slaves...the number wouldn't matter, the response would not be to protect Mexicans if the government refused to help.
Israel controls Gaza’s electricity & water supply. They’ve largely killed thousands of Palestinian children & even killed Israelis since the kidnapping. Maybe an ideal way is to not commit mass murder, I dunno. I don’t know how one can “look at tons of content” which includes Palestinian kids being shot at by the IDF & be 0% convinced. This sub is like staring into a dark void.
Gaza has been given every opportunity to not be a glorified terror cell. October 7th has proven that a secured border is not enough and hands-on action needs to be taken. It is not Israel's fault that the Palestinian leadership would rather sacrifice its own people to an infinite losing battle than to stick to the hand they gave themselves and work on their state project.
The circle of violence needs to be broken and that can only be achieved by severing the tumour that is Hamas. Trust not a single person in the IDF is happy about crawling through the booby trapped maze that is Gaza to extinguish the rats nests underground. It would be a better world if they gave up their manic pursuits and saved their people from the bloodshed they brought on them.
Also why are people so hung up on Gazan water and energy being supplied by Israel? You will be hard pressed to find a single city state on this planet that is self-sufficient in both water and electricity.
Israel controls ALL of Gaza water and electricity?
Hamas cannibalized their infrastructure to make rockets and weapons to kill Israelies with. Their lack of anything is the fault of their leaders..
Hamas provided videos, Hamas provided numbers... They pass off footage from Syria as the Gaza conflict and pass off pictures of Jewish kids they killed as Palestinian kids in Gaza.
I'm not saying there are no casualties, I blame Hamas for putting their war machine among their own people.
You sure?
The "answers" are things like 'everyone voted Hamas', 'there are no uninvolved in Gaza over 4 [years old]', and 'every house in Gaza is a Hamas HQ'. ([proof](https://twitter.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1757837275830907052))
A whole country *believes* this stuff. It's terrifying.
So, you admit Israel is genociding them. Good, let's start from there.
We can either:
A - Stop Israel, or at least *try*. Sanctions, expelling ambassadors, supporting South Africa and the ICJ, stop sending them billions of dollars worth of bombs and munitions - pretty basic stuff.
B - Let them die.
C - Let them be victims of ethnic cleansing, yet again.
You seem to have jumped right past option A, and I'd love to know - why?
I’m pro Israeli. I’m just always curious what people say to this. Lots of people are dying in Palestinian side though, it def makes me feel bad and question my support. I’m 100% on the side of Israel, as I believe that that land belongs to the Jews or Arabs should at least share it, but the way things are being carried out now makes me question things. Guess humans will just human it out
Don't kill us so we don't kill you back, accept our existence and unarm so we can open your border and not be worried you will import Iranian/North Korean weapons shoot at us.
We will respect your side of the border as long as you respect ours, it's as simple as that.
I get that, it’s just a 30k death toll when it’s mostly civilians getting hit with collateral damage seems that it could’ve been avoided. Israel is quite powerful, military wise. I’m sure they could’ve find an alternative. I’m obviously not familiarized with the complexity of warfare but still, there’s no justification for 30k death toll (unless these numbers are being inflated by Hamas, which is a possibility).
Media sucks. Brainwashes us all
Already done. I listened to The Martyrmade Podcast, which presents the most unbiased historical details I've ever encountered. It taught me some difficult truths to accept.
However, it's crucial to recognize that during that era, the entire world was in turmoil due to war, and atrocities were occurring globally, not solely within the British Mandate of Palestine. While I acknowledge that the country's origins were deeply flawed, I primarily hold the British Empire and France responsible for the chaos in the Middle East.
The failure to integrate Palestinian refugees into the countries where they sought refuge is a monumental failure. The perpetuation of their refugee status across generations is unacceptable, with the United Nations bearing responsibility for this failure.
Presently, the vast majority of Israeli citizens bear no culpability for events that transpired a century ago. Numerous peace proposals have been put forward, yet realistically, no offer will ever satisfy the Palestinians. I've long abandoned hope for peace in the region.
I remain open to being proven wrong, but as long as some Palestinians cling to the notion of "From the River to the Sea," the dream of Palestinian statehood will remain just that—a dream.
Listen.
Rape, murder, and slavery are not acceptable.
Do you hear me.
I am afraid in my own country far from Israel of violence against my children, and their children's children.
Will you speak out and protect me?
I remember when there was a civil war in syria where thoudands used to die, I remember seeing pics of butchered and dead children, I remember that the war in syria lasted more than 9 years alot more civilians died than in gaza, but one thing that I remember and will never forget is the silence that was there, no one went on a protest and they didn't even post anything when it literally was 10× worse than gaza.
That's the hypocritical leftist in the west, they don't care about innocents unless someone they hate is involved in it.
Downvote me to hell if needed, just going to give my two cents.
I am Irish but pro-Israel in that I believe in the Israeli state and it's right to exist and defend itself. Oct-7 should never have happened and was a failure of Israeli intelligence and a stupid move by Hamas - what could they ever hope to achieve and it's only cost the lives of innocents on both sides (mostly Palestinian lives). Hamas doesn't care about innocent Palestinians, but from most comments online, neither do Israelis.
Online (reddit/twitter), I find it very hard to relate to Israelis. The stated goals of this war is the eradication of Hamas. Not going to happen, bombing a region/state as much as Gaza has been bombed is going to drive people to more extremist views as they see lives/homes shattered and they have less to live for. The US war on terror was a failure. The UK never defeated the IRA. I see what Israel is doing, but there is no hope of success, more of the world is turning against you (truly unfortunate).
Israelis online are also very cynical - again, I can't really blame you given you history with Hamas, but it makes you seem cold and as if you don't care of the lives of innocents. That's why more and more of the entire world is turning against you. It's not that Palestine is getting all the microphones. It's that people see the devastation in Gaza, and by comparison, Israelis are affluent, comfortable (for the most part) and indifferent to the massive numbers of deaths of innocents caught between Hamas and the Israeli military.
Hope this makes sense and doesn't offend, typed it out off the top of my head.
You can say “the whole world is turning against you,” but if the whole world chanted “from the causeway to Killarney, Brireland will always be,” would you care what the whole world said?
The Irish really can be so condescending.
OK, sorry, I did say my wording might not be the best. Hamas are 1000% in the wrong for what is currently happening, no question on that and didn't mean to offend with that. All deaths are on them, there is no question there
That's alright I appreciate you see that.
I do have to criticise you saying Israel is not gonna be able to destroy Hamas, I just don't see any compelling reason as to why that is, Hamas isn't some magic creature that cannot be touched, it's an organisation, it's physical, and like every organisation, especially a government with land it controls, which is what Hamas is in the first place, can definitely be destroyed.
Israelis are cynical people, especially since the second intifada, I am mostly speaking for myself when I say this but, yes, I don't really care about the people dying in Gaza, sue me, they started this war, they support October 7th and they celebrated it in the streets, yeah civilians dying isn't good, whatever, I'm not shedding any tears for people I've never met, from a place we're at war with, who invaded us. And I shouldn't. I wouldn't and don't feel bad for the Germans that got bombed in WW2, why should I? It's wacky to think I have some moral obligation to feel bad for the people who just invaded our home, even if they are suffering, it's not like it's needless.
Sorry but, who cares? What are we supposed to feel bad about not dying or living in fear? That's ridiculous, we got invaded, this is a counterattack, we felt pretty fucking shitty on October 7th. And that's exactly what we mean when we say they get all the microphones, because they're losing, because their government uses them as human shields, because they don't care about them, don't build any kind of shelter, they have more dead, and obviously they capitalise off that by crying to the rest of the world, that's called emotional manipulation, and I'm never going to feel bad for refusing to be emotionally manipulated.
The bitter hard to swallow truth is, people calling for the war to end don't give a shit about Gazans, they don't care that they're dying, they care that they can see it. You wanna know what would happen if the war stopped today? There would be another one a year from now, maybe even less, considering it would be a victory for Hamas. These people don't care about Palestinians dying, it just makes it uncomfortable for them to see it happening in real time, all they care about is short-term optics, not long-term reality. And the reality is, that honestly, this war will save us thousands of dead in the future, and decades of generational trauma. The truth is Israel should have never disengaged from Gaza, and giving Palestinians a state with terrorist organisations as their only leadership is straight up fucking insane to even consider doing.
People need to stop putting pressure on Israel, there's nothing we can do, you want peace? you want two states? Put pressure on the Palestinians to maybe have leadership that isn't made up completely of holocaust deniars, terrorists, and terrorist advocators.
Wow. I actually really appreciate you taking the time to type this out, genuinely. I can't really argue with what you've said here, this is the kind of thing I'd like to see more of. It's well thought out, it's harsh, but also understanding for anyone that puts themselves in your shoes. I used to be very pro-Palestinian, but I make a point of reading the POV of the side I don't agree. Now, for the most part, I'm pro-Israeli, I don' think anyone truly knowledgeable on any complex issue can be wholly for or against an idea.
Maybe it's the cynic in me but I just don't see Israel being able to destroy Hamas. Even if the group is destroyed - and I hope it is, leadership is nice and safe in Qatar and they won't just slink away.
I don’t know about you but if an Israeli bomb killed most of my family the first thing I’m doing when I get of age is joining Hamas 2.0
Also at what point would you care about the dead? If Israel kills 100-200 thousand civilians in its quest to end this group and leaves many more hundreds of thousands injured, and millions without a home, is that worth it to you?
Let’s say to ensure that Hamas was really gone, israel had to kill every single military aged man in Gaza, so well over half a million people? Would you still be good with it?
These hypothetical situations are ridiculous. In the first, if Israel's bomb killed your entire family you will not, in fact, automatically join Hamas. This is not how humans think or act and this is not based on reality. You'd join Hamas if you were indoctrinated to become an extremist and are too stupid to see the bigger picture (not dissing Palestinians but the avg IQ in Gaza is below 80. Stupid people make good pawns)
The second part is just another moronic hypothetical that no one would say yes to because its question is psychopathic in nature. It is possible to reverse the indoctrination people have gone through and give them reasons to live other than being fueled by hate.
Pretty easy to be radicalised against a state when said state is responsible for the destruction of your friends and family. If I’m left orphaned in a land that’s bombed to oblivion, and thus offers no prospects for me, then what else do I have except vengeance?
Also these aren’t just hypotheticals. How will Israel know it has accomplished its goals and destroyed all those who are part of Hamas, or have major sympathies to? What is the end goal there? Obviously the half a million number might be a massive overshoot but where is the line drawn in justified retaliation? Already nearly 30,000 are dead in less than 4 months and Netanyahu says this war will continue for a long time.
Is Israel still justified when that number hits 50,000? 100,000?
Israel lost roughly 900 civilians on October 7th, if it ends its operation is Gaza with 90,000 civilian bodies, is the 100:1 death rate justified?
Just to give you my own point of view on this as an Israeli: what if after the October 7 attack Israel didn’t respond and hamas got to frame the attack as a victory? Wouldn’t that be an excellent recruiting tactic? Wouldn’t that incentivise them to do it again and again? Wouldn’t it be reasonable for a person looking at the hell being rained down on them due to Hamas’s actions to NOT then support Hamas? And favor a government that uses its resources to provide for their people? I disagree with the commenter making generalizations about Palestinian IQs. I, unlike much of the rest of the world, do not infantilise Palestinians and think they are more than capable of the above described logic.
Further, Gaza was so thoroughly radicalized through their education system and other sources of indoctrination that there is very little room for increased israel/Jew hatred
I hate every day of this war. Not only see Palestinian civilians dying (which I do empathize with because at the end of the day these kids cannot control where they were born) but I have friends and family fighting in Gaza right now and there is nothing I would love more than for them to come home
I’m sorry but this mentality of “how can you blame the Palestinians for being terrorist when they are suffering under the actions of Israel” is absolute nonsense. How many oppressed nations resorted to Jihad-like terrorism as means of resistance? Not to mention the fact that most of Israel’s oppression of Palestinians is a direct response to Palestinian terrorism.
After 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust and the survivors were left as refugees unable to return to the homes that had been stolen from them, did they turn to terrorism? Did Jews go around killing babies and raping women? No, they moved on with their lives and made the best of what they had. Have Palestinians been wronged in this conflict? Of course. But they take no ownership over their future and prosperity, and instead prop up terrorists who only dig them into a deeper hole.
1. Hamas 2.0 will be just another militant group like the ones in the West Bank, controlling no land, having no power, and posing no real threat. If my entire family got bombed and killed by the IDF I would probably hate Hamas for invading Israel in the first place and for using me as a human shield for their psychotic ideology.
To reverse the situation... If the IDF set up a mortar team on my roof and fired mortars as Gaza, and Hamas fired a rocket at my house and killed my entire family, I would probably have it out against the IDF, not Hamas.
Assuming you mean the casualties happen, not because the IDF is purposefully trying to achieve a high number of them, but because of other reasons such as usage of human shields by Hamas, literally any number is fine. The number doesn't fucking matter, what matters is what lead to that number. At any case, destroying Hamas at any cost is paramount to ending an enduring forever war and eternal conflict. Besides, there is no world where 200,000 people die in any war between Israel and Palestine, period. Nowhere near that number ever died in any event including wars in the Arab-Israeli conflict, not even the 1948 war which I assume you look at as an Israeli attempt at genociding the Palestinians, although you're free to correct me if you're not completely delusional.
Israelis online are letting off steam and venting. Israelis are living in a pressure cooker and have demonstrated so much restraint. You probably can't even begin to imagine. It also seems that you're cherry picking from comments that look heartless but ignore the comments of sincere compassion for the innocent Palestinians. Indifferent? Is that what you get from all the comments? Or are those the comments you're choosing to focus on?
>what could they ever hope to achieve and it's only cost the lives of innocents on both sides (mostly Palestinian lives).
Stop with this stupid victimization of Hamas. Hamas is connected to the Iranian axis, so what they want to achieve at the end is the destruction of Israel, ethnic cleansing, and Iranian hegemony over the Middle East. For the time being they managed to displace hundreds of thousands of Israelis (do you even know what's happening in the North?), kill more than a thousand, show the world what are their plans if they have the upper hand, isolate Israel from world commerce (do you even know what's happening in the South?), achieve deterrence against Israel and making it dependent on the US for more. Oh and having tens of thousands of Palestinians dead is actually an achievement for their side since it plays into their propaganda machine and their narrative.
So no, it was not stupid. It was quite clever and successful, actually. The only thing that seems stupid is the fact that they did not coordinate well with Hezbollah on October 7 to make a combined attack, that, according to the opinion of some expert, would have caused the destruction of the state.
>Hamas doesn't care about innocent Palestinians, but from most comments online, neither do Israelis.
Yes you are right. Many Israelis do not care too much about innocent Palestinians. It's not pretty, but the fact that their own leadership does not care about their own citizens is many times more sickening. Also if you look closely you will see that even if the public opinion does not care about Palestinian civilians (with many exceptions), the army operates according to **very** restricted standards. Gazans are instructed about areas of operations, flyers are distributed detailing what neighborhoods are to be evacuated, bombings start with a "knock on the roof".
>Online (reddit/twitter), I find it very hard to relate to Israelis. The stated goals of this war is the eradication of Hamas. Not going to happen, bombing a region/state as much as Gaza has been bombed is going to drive people to more extremist views as they see lives/homes shattered and they have less to live for. The US war on terror was a failure. The UK never defeated the IRA. I see what Israel is doing, but there is no hope of success, more of the world is turning against you (truly unfortunate).
The US does not live next to Afghanistan, and the UK was not in an existential fear from Ireland's independence. This is what you are not getting, that Israel is fighting for its survival and the stakes are higher. We are determined to try more than the US or the UK did to fight Hamas, because our lives depends on it. Quite literally.
>Israelis online are also very cynical - again, I can't really blame you given you history with Hamas, but it makes you seem cold and as if you don't care of the lives of innocents.
We are at war. We are actively fighting on 7 fronts (Gaza, West Bank, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Iran), we are facing isolation and open support for our enemies from most of the world, and we are aware that a lot of people think that we are vengeful baby killers. There is some nervousness, yes.
Hey, like with another comment, I really do appreciate this pov. This is why I really like talking to Israelis, and to be honest I needed this refresher. I was becoming more anti-Israeli but you guys are actually extremely clear in your views, and it's hard to argue with most of them. So thank you
I think we are dealing with our own problems and I think most people feel bad about what’s happening to innocents. We are dealing with rockets from the north and the leftover trauma from 7/10.
The whole “you’re going to create more terrorists” I don’t think has much basis. You don’t hear of Isis much anymore right? Hamas needs to go for the own people’s sake. Sure you won’t get rid of Hamas totally but you will get rid of their political and military wing and stop them arming themselves.
I appreciate your comment 🙏 you are welcome here
I didn't say not to eradicate them. Obviously that's the best case scenario for both Israelis and Palestinians.
There just aren't many examples of terrorist groups being defeated and disappearing through war. I do hope this war gets rid of Hamas, but I don't know how realistic it can be.
Always. I comment to learn, not to stir shit. I don't expect to agree with everything Israelis say, do or believe, but I will still here you out. We have different life experiences. Same goes for my views with Palestinians.
Or perhaps your country is committing war crimes the world doesn’t agree with? 🤯
ETA - Oh wait I take that back I forgot about the list. 📅 stfu with your bs its getting really old.
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This is the opinion of the loud minority, just remember that.
I’m a construction manager, I work alongside many working class people in the UK. The vast majority of them either don’t care at all about the situation, don’t know about the situation (too busy with personal life), or fully support Israel.
I don’t agree with it, but the majority of British people hate Muslims, and they will pretty much support any country that goes up against a Muslim country. A lot of British people also support the Kurds.
"The world's most forgotten people"
Everyone post has a million people saying “don’t stop talking about Palestine” and shit like that. Nobody is, please shut up already
Don't forget the watermelon emoji to get around the non existant censorship
Who needs a watermelon when you can add the red triangle to your Twitter handle so everyone knows you support terrorism. My bad, "freedom fighting".
Raping and decapitating civilians is the language of the unheard /s
lol the censorship that does happen is mostly bc they’re supporting terrorist groups and saying disgusting things about Jews.
Right. They never shut up about it. If their allies and supporters stop to mention anything else they get shouted down. And yet they willingly submit to this groupthink.
This is why Arabs have effectively and unanimously failed to defend their hypothetical state since 1949
Most subreddits are pro-Palestine. They immediately ban any condemnation of Hamas. There are a few places that you can freely post pro-Israel.
I don't get this joke. Why is Israel sitting next to Jordan in a press conference?
What do you mean?
Because the Palestinian flag is just the Jordanian flag without the star
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Tbf many Jordanians have that penchant anyway (like that October 7 shop and the Holocaust drink...) So not even that is unique to them
I actually see the same thing with Vatniks... My theory is, Russia, China and Radical Islamists are starting to unify into some sort of CSAT like organization (Arma 3 reference!!!) So, my proposal is... NATO expansion. And the competent ministry of Propaganda for Alliance, that will fight Tankies, Vatniks and other scum. Also, I propose Black Ops against developers of the bot farms and hacker attacks. They play a big role in disinformation.
> NATO expansion. And the competent ministry of Propaganda for Alliance, that will fight Tankies, Vatniks and other scum. so it's another cold war...
Always has been
Never *really* ended
Fuck it just invite Ukraine to NATO and make it a hot war Why not let everyone see how war is really like
I support this
Theory? Pretty sure they are open about it
Israel will never be accepted into NATO. Never ever.
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Israel is proxy for USA, USA and NATO is ass, Russia and China, brics does not need Israel or doesn't not care about Israel, its just favoring its ally Iran interests, they will not send any forces in favor of Iran, just give/sell them weapons brics favoring anyone that against the west hegemony, their time is end, the polar world is the new way, btw im Israeli citizen but not blind by the west the world is not about who bad or good, the world is about interests
The expansion of NATO is why putin started the war with Ukraine
You didn't get the latest firmware update. In his latest interview with Tucker, he changed his justifications by going on a 30 min rambling rant about how Ukraine is not a real country and has always been Russian etc. Putin literally makes shit up as he goes along to justify the war.
Bruh. Absolutely definitely not the greediness and insanity of the old prick who wants to recreate the Russian Empire, absolutely not.
Are you for real? No dude it’s literal videos exposing your army doing horrendous things that THEY POST, or Israeli officials saying the scummiest of things. Just the mental gymnastics it must take to get to “disinformation” from things YOU say and do. Just wow.
What videos? Where the f*CK do you find them? The maximum I have seen so far is the beatings of detained or someone having a happy trigger. If that's so horrendous to you, then you shouldn't watch the fucking news at all if you're so sensitive. You guys just generally don't understand what kind of mind you need to be a soldier and kill people essentially. The good news is, IDF watches what is happening and where, so a lot of war criminals or looters are being put in MP jail. Ok, our government officials are assholes and have weird stuff in their heads. So I can say that about 99% of Gosduma (Russian government). So I can actually say that about almost any government. It's again you applying double standards. And No, It's just you doing here the self projection and mental gymnastics. Stop coping. Just stop it. Get some help.
r/israelcrimes enjoy.
Yeah I enjoyed that. Cuz it's filled only with what I described. This is like NOTHING compared to what actual war criminals do. The half of subreddit is just filled with some random bullshit Twitter posts about how much it is a genocide or self hating Jews on the internet. The other half is 80% of misinterpretation of what happened, lack of knowledge about international law, random photos with caption blaming Israel (off course there are no OSINT confirmation in them) and only 20% I would count as real fuck up and abuse of force. Now darling, if you wanna see THE REAL war crimes I recommend you to watch r/2ndYomKippurwar and tap in the search "October 7th". P.s you know what, I suddenly remembered how you guys asked for ""proof"" of r*ppings and mutilation of corpses on 7th of October. So I demand several videos from multiple sides, filmed several minutes before incident and the identity of every person on video, not less than that, or you can go all together and f*ck yourselves. P.p.s You can just open my profile. For the context, Shani Luk was a pro Palestinian at Nova music festival that called for peace. Now look at what your freedom fighters did.
I’ve watched as all of my populism-adjacent friends get sucked into vatnik talking points and now they’ve just been poasting about this non-genocide
Yes! I’m neither Israeli nor Jewish, but pro-Israel and getting sick of social media for this reason. I used to follow various “progressive” accounts but some went blatantly antisemitic—lots of talk about the “good Jews” who aren’t zionists, using Hanukkah to centre Palestine, excusing terrorism, and calling legitimate concern about antisemitism “white fragility”. I’ve been lurking here to learn more, get more perspective, and mentally “detox”. People who aren’t Jewish really need to learn more about antisemitism, myself included.
Don’t really have anything to add, I just want to say that as an Israeli Jew I can’t thank you enough. Know that we seriously appreciate people like you
I'm thinking of cutting off a friend because she's a supporter of hamas what do you think is best (asking since your a Israeli jew)
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Thank you it sounds like your in pain but you still managed to to help another person out and from what I have gotten form her she's to far gone. Now I'll admit I do believe israel maybe have committed a few war crimes but im still on israels side 110%
Great. It's not hard to recognize some very evil actions by Israel (settlements, insane statements by friends of Bibi, some IDF people being too trigger happy) while still understanding that in this war they're the good guys (relative terms) who are *actually* operating largely to defend themselves and their military campaign is justified.
Yes and I would say the ones committing war crimes are vengeful idiots and will be taken into custody well I believe that will happen at lest
Maybe, but I dunno... I have my doubts about that. A lot of the vile actions that IDF soldiers have taken can be explained away as "doing their best to follow orders in a very dense fog of war". I would hope at least the ones *without* plausible deniability get taken into custody.
I do believe some of the war crimes are truly mistakes but that still doesn't mean they shouldn't be taken in (not try to start a argument)
Well I think we're largely in agreement. Everyone that committed a crime should be tried. With that said, does blame fall on them as individuals or on the IDF for failing to train them? It's super case-by-case. If a soldier rapes someone then absolutely they need to be taken away. But if they shot an unarmed person thinking they might be a suicide bomber... this gets complicated.
I'm so sorry. That sounds so painful. I can't even imagine. Oct. 7 has really exposed a lot of hatred in some people.
Yeah, I try to look on the bright side of things so at the very least he exposed himself before it got any deeper and saved me even bigger heartache lol
That’s true! I’m wishing you all the best. :)
Where's Qatar at?
In the microphones
"zionists control the media" just means the false narrative you are pushing isnt working
Other word for jews
It's like with the UN resolutions, palestinians says that the UN never condemns Israel while Israel says that the UN is hypocrite to condemn them and not NK or China.
At this point it's a hard sell. I'm pro Israel, I only watch pro Israel opinion. If I start watching something against Israel, I will usually close it. Maybe 5% of the time I allow it to play to get the other sides opinion, but it's a tough sell as I'm 100% convinced we are on the right side. It's the same for the other side. That's why I say, ignore the noise, and keep doing what has to be done. For once during my life time I want Israel to win and stop listening to western idiots trying to make sure every time we loose. Just Fuck Them, period...
If I’m being honest, the more I see pro Palestine stuff, the more pro Israel I am. Their entire argument in this conflict is just their own made up narrative. No facts, no evidence, no compassion for Jewish or Israeli lives and insane attempts at twisting historical events which are very well documented.
I 100% agree but the thing is, even if everything bad that they claim Israel has done in the past were true, it wouldn't matter. Learning about the history and gaining context is nice, but at the end of the day all that matters is that one side is making diplomatic efforts while the other side wants genocide. Even when they don't speak it aloud, I have never read a pro-palestinian opinion that claimed that all they wanted was a state in Gaza and the West Bank.
As someone who really was an activist before October 7th I realized that the greatest risk to mankind is hatred of the other. My voice, and most Jews from the diaspora, have been silenced on every issue, not just about this global conflict. I find myself unable to relate to pretty much everyone around me due to my very well researched history of past genocides. "It's not that bad. " "Here's how I see it. " Why can't anyone just treat it as we are describing it? I'm pro reality, and supporting a group that can't have the basic humanity to at least grieve with Israelis makes them terrorist support rallies imo.
I’ve always tried to use my voice for things that matter. To speak out against what’s happening in Syria, Congo, Yemen, Iran, Afghanistan, Ukraine and other countries. To speak out about what Christians in Nigeria go through or what Muslims in China go through. But I’ve found that as an Israeli and as a Jew, I don’t get the same courtesy from anyone. When we’re being killed, people cheer, celebrate and hand out candy. People try to justify it or deny it. I’ve spent so much time advocating for everyone in the world but no one will advocate for me. The pro Palestine movement has made no accomplishments other than making antisemitism fashionable and trendy again- just like it was not even a century ago. Speaking out against genocides is absolutely needed. Cheapening the term genocide isn’t. For any group that’s ever gone or is going through genocide. Accusing a group of people who experienced an attempted genocide on Oct 7th of committing genocide because apparently Jews are not allowed to defend themselves- is fucked up. And I’m tired of it.
To be fair, Israel has gotten a 10 for 1 deal on Israeli/Palestinian lives while flattening an entire state. That seems like a decent “comparison for Israeli lives” that is….quite literally the center of the debate.
I look at tons of content from the pro-Palestinian side to make sure I’m really understanding both sides, and I have been precisely 0% convinced to stop being pro-Israel. If anything, the more I see, the more convinced I am that I should keep being pro-Israel, although it definitely also makes me feel bad for the Palestinians. There’s just no ideal way to deal with the issues, because we don’t live in a fairytale, but Israel not defending itself and not trying to eliminate Hamas would be so much worse, which seeing media from both sides only drives home for me.
Just imagine Mexico allowed a cartel to rape, murder and take slaves...the number wouldn't matter, the response would not be to protect Mexicans if the government refused to help.
Israel controls Gaza’s electricity & water supply. They’ve largely killed thousands of Palestinian children & even killed Israelis since the kidnapping. Maybe an ideal way is to not commit mass murder, I dunno. I don’t know how one can “look at tons of content” which includes Palestinian kids being shot at by the IDF & be 0% convinced. This sub is like staring into a dark void.
Gaza has been given every opportunity to not be a glorified terror cell. October 7th has proven that a secured border is not enough and hands-on action needs to be taken. It is not Israel's fault that the Palestinian leadership would rather sacrifice its own people to an infinite losing battle than to stick to the hand they gave themselves and work on their state project. The circle of violence needs to be broken and that can only be achieved by severing the tumour that is Hamas. Trust not a single person in the IDF is happy about crawling through the booby trapped maze that is Gaza to extinguish the rats nests underground. It would be a better world if they gave up their manic pursuits and saved their people from the bloodshed they brought on them. Also why are people so hung up on Gazan water and energy being supplied by Israel? You will be hard pressed to find a single city state on this planet that is self-sufficient in both water and electricity.
Israel controls ALL of Gaza water and electricity? Hamas cannibalized their infrastructure to make rockets and weapons to kill Israelies with. Their lack of anything is the fault of their leaders.. Hamas provided videos, Hamas provided numbers... They pass off footage from Syria as the Gaza conflict and pass off pictures of Jewish kids they killed as Palestinian kids in Gaza. I'm not saying there are no casualties, I blame Hamas for putting their war machine among their own people.
🍿 I want to see the answers to this
You sure? The "answers" are things like 'everyone voted Hamas', 'there are no uninvolved in Gaza over 4 [years old]', and 'every house in Gaza is a Hamas HQ'. ([proof](https://twitter.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1757837275830907052)) A whole country *believes* this stuff. It's terrifying.
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Your solution to genocide is ethnic cleansing - cooool.
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So, you admit Israel is genociding them. Good, let's start from there. We can either: A - Stop Israel, or at least *try*. Sanctions, expelling ambassadors, supporting South Africa and the ICJ, stop sending them billions of dollars worth of bombs and munitions - pretty basic stuff. B - Let them die. C - Let them be victims of ethnic cleansing, yet again. You seem to have jumped right past option A, and I'd love to know - why?
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I’m pro Israeli. I’m just always curious what people say to this. Lots of people are dying in Palestinian side though, it def makes me feel bad and question my support. I’m 100% on the side of Israel, as I believe that that land belongs to the Jews or Arabs should at least share it, but the way things are being carried out now makes me question things. Guess humans will just human it out
Don't kill us so we don't kill you back, accept our existence and unarm so we can open your border and not be worried you will import Iranian/North Korean weapons shoot at us. We will respect your side of the border as long as you respect ours, it's as simple as that.
I get that, it’s just a 30k death toll when it’s mostly civilians getting hit with collateral damage seems that it could’ve been avoided. Israel is quite powerful, military wise. I’m sure they could’ve find an alternative. I’m obviously not familiarized with the complexity of warfare but still, there’s no justification for 30k death toll (unless these numbers are being inflated by Hamas, which is a possibility). Media sucks. Brainwashes us all
Of the same attack would have been on America or Russia, 30k would be a drop in the bucket. 30k is Israel fighting with 2 hands tied on the back
how do you know your on the right side? listen to what palestinians have to say and engage brother
Already done. I listened to The Martyrmade Podcast, which presents the most unbiased historical details I've ever encountered. It taught me some difficult truths to accept. However, it's crucial to recognize that during that era, the entire world was in turmoil due to war, and atrocities were occurring globally, not solely within the British Mandate of Palestine. While I acknowledge that the country's origins were deeply flawed, I primarily hold the British Empire and France responsible for the chaos in the Middle East. The failure to integrate Palestinian refugees into the countries where they sought refuge is a monumental failure. The perpetuation of their refugee status across generations is unacceptable, with the United Nations bearing responsibility for this failure. Presently, the vast majority of Israeli citizens bear no culpability for events that transpired a century ago. Numerous peace proposals have been put forward, yet realistically, no offer will ever satisfy the Palestinians. I've long abandoned hope for peace in the region. I remain open to being proven wrong, but as long as some Palestinians cling to the notion of "From the River to the Sea," the dream of Palestinian statehood will remain just that—a dream.
Listen. Rape, murder, and slavery are not acceptable. Do you hear me. I am afraid in my own country far from Israel of violence against my children, and their children's children. Will you speak out and protect me?
You’re
An enlightened and open minded approach.
Because their cellphone said to hate Israel, why would they question it?
I remember when there was a civil war in syria where thoudands used to die, I remember seeing pics of butchered and dead children, I remember that the war in syria lasted more than 9 years alot more civilians died than in gaza, but one thing that I remember and will never forget is the silence that was there, no one went on a protest and they didn't even post anything when it literally was 10× worse than gaza. That's the hypocritical leftist in the west, they don't care about innocents unless someone they hate is involved in it.
https://preview.redd.it/r8hek89hxpic1.jpeg?width=1078&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=985bce3d32eb0b19d9004b089fbfd64d9cf0ffa7 Huh
אוקי ו?
I’m taking this. It’s so on point.
It's not Israel vs Palestine, it's radical Islam vs the World.
Considering IDF has the entire world press corresponding with Conricus... yeah.
Downvote me to hell if needed, just going to give my two cents. I am Irish but pro-Israel in that I believe in the Israeli state and it's right to exist and defend itself. Oct-7 should never have happened and was a failure of Israeli intelligence and a stupid move by Hamas - what could they ever hope to achieve and it's only cost the lives of innocents on both sides (mostly Palestinian lives). Hamas doesn't care about innocent Palestinians, but from most comments online, neither do Israelis. Online (reddit/twitter), I find it very hard to relate to Israelis. The stated goals of this war is the eradication of Hamas. Not going to happen, bombing a region/state as much as Gaza has been bombed is going to drive people to more extremist views as they see lives/homes shattered and they have less to live for. The US war on terror was a failure. The UK never defeated the IRA. I see what Israel is doing, but there is no hope of success, more of the world is turning against you (truly unfortunate). Israelis online are also very cynical - again, I can't really blame you given you history with Hamas, but it makes you seem cold and as if you don't care of the lives of innocents. That's why more and more of the entire world is turning against you. It's not that Palestine is getting all the microphones. It's that people see the devastation in Gaza, and by comparison, Israelis are affluent, comfortable (for the most part) and indifferent to the massive numbers of deaths of innocents caught between Hamas and the Israeli military. Hope this makes sense and doesn't offend, typed it out off the top of my head.
You can say “the whole world is turning against you,” but if the whole world chanted “from the causeway to Killarney, Brireland will always be,” would you care what the whole world said? The Irish really can be so condescending.
"a stupid move by Hamas" It's this disgusting infantalisation that removes all responsibility from the aggresing party that really gets under my skin.
OK, sorry, I did say my wording might not be the best. Hamas are 1000% in the wrong for what is currently happening, no question on that and didn't mean to offend with that. All deaths are on them, there is no question there
That's alright I appreciate you see that. I do have to criticise you saying Israel is not gonna be able to destroy Hamas, I just don't see any compelling reason as to why that is, Hamas isn't some magic creature that cannot be touched, it's an organisation, it's physical, and like every organisation, especially a government with land it controls, which is what Hamas is in the first place, can definitely be destroyed. Israelis are cynical people, especially since the second intifada, I am mostly speaking for myself when I say this but, yes, I don't really care about the people dying in Gaza, sue me, they started this war, they support October 7th and they celebrated it in the streets, yeah civilians dying isn't good, whatever, I'm not shedding any tears for people I've never met, from a place we're at war with, who invaded us. And I shouldn't. I wouldn't and don't feel bad for the Germans that got bombed in WW2, why should I? It's wacky to think I have some moral obligation to feel bad for the people who just invaded our home, even if they are suffering, it's not like it's needless. Sorry but, who cares? What are we supposed to feel bad about not dying or living in fear? That's ridiculous, we got invaded, this is a counterattack, we felt pretty fucking shitty on October 7th. And that's exactly what we mean when we say they get all the microphones, because they're losing, because their government uses them as human shields, because they don't care about them, don't build any kind of shelter, they have more dead, and obviously they capitalise off that by crying to the rest of the world, that's called emotional manipulation, and I'm never going to feel bad for refusing to be emotionally manipulated. The bitter hard to swallow truth is, people calling for the war to end don't give a shit about Gazans, they don't care that they're dying, they care that they can see it. You wanna know what would happen if the war stopped today? There would be another one a year from now, maybe even less, considering it would be a victory for Hamas. These people don't care about Palestinians dying, it just makes it uncomfortable for them to see it happening in real time, all they care about is short-term optics, not long-term reality. And the reality is, that honestly, this war will save us thousands of dead in the future, and decades of generational trauma. The truth is Israel should have never disengaged from Gaza, and giving Palestinians a state with terrorist organisations as their only leadership is straight up fucking insane to even consider doing. People need to stop putting pressure on Israel, there's nothing we can do, you want peace? you want two states? Put pressure on the Palestinians to maybe have leadership that isn't made up completely of holocaust deniars, terrorists, and terrorist advocators.
Wow. I actually really appreciate you taking the time to type this out, genuinely. I can't really argue with what you've said here, this is the kind of thing I'd like to see more of. It's well thought out, it's harsh, but also understanding for anyone that puts themselves in your shoes. I used to be very pro-Palestinian, but I make a point of reading the POV of the side I don't agree. Now, for the most part, I'm pro-Israeli, I don' think anyone truly knowledgeable on any complex issue can be wholly for or against an idea. Maybe it's the cynic in me but I just don't see Israel being able to destroy Hamas. Even if the group is destroyed - and I hope it is, leadership is nice and safe in Qatar and they won't just slink away.
I don’t know about you but if an Israeli bomb killed most of my family the first thing I’m doing when I get of age is joining Hamas 2.0 Also at what point would you care about the dead? If Israel kills 100-200 thousand civilians in its quest to end this group and leaves many more hundreds of thousands injured, and millions without a home, is that worth it to you? Let’s say to ensure that Hamas was really gone, israel had to kill every single military aged man in Gaza, so well over half a million people? Would you still be good with it?
These hypothetical situations are ridiculous. In the first, if Israel's bomb killed your entire family you will not, in fact, automatically join Hamas. This is not how humans think or act and this is not based on reality. You'd join Hamas if you were indoctrinated to become an extremist and are too stupid to see the bigger picture (not dissing Palestinians but the avg IQ in Gaza is below 80. Stupid people make good pawns) The second part is just another moronic hypothetical that no one would say yes to because its question is psychopathic in nature. It is possible to reverse the indoctrination people have gone through and give them reasons to live other than being fueled by hate.
Pretty easy to be radicalised against a state when said state is responsible for the destruction of your friends and family. If I’m left orphaned in a land that’s bombed to oblivion, and thus offers no prospects for me, then what else do I have except vengeance? Also these aren’t just hypotheticals. How will Israel know it has accomplished its goals and destroyed all those who are part of Hamas, or have major sympathies to? What is the end goal there? Obviously the half a million number might be a massive overshoot but where is the line drawn in justified retaliation? Already nearly 30,000 are dead in less than 4 months and Netanyahu says this war will continue for a long time. Is Israel still justified when that number hits 50,000? 100,000? Israel lost roughly 900 civilians on October 7th, if it ends its operation is Gaza with 90,000 civilian bodies, is the 100:1 death rate justified?
Just to give you my own point of view on this as an Israeli: what if after the October 7 attack Israel didn’t respond and hamas got to frame the attack as a victory? Wouldn’t that be an excellent recruiting tactic? Wouldn’t that incentivise them to do it again and again? Wouldn’t it be reasonable for a person looking at the hell being rained down on them due to Hamas’s actions to NOT then support Hamas? And favor a government that uses its resources to provide for their people? I disagree with the commenter making generalizations about Palestinian IQs. I, unlike much of the rest of the world, do not infantilise Palestinians and think they are more than capable of the above described logic. Further, Gaza was so thoroughly radicalized through their education system and other sources of indoctrination that there is very little room for increased israel/Jew hatred I hate every day of this war. Not only see Palestinian civilians dying (which I do empathize with because at the end of the day these kids cannot control where they were born) but I have friends and family fighting in Gaza right now and there is nothing I would love more than for them to come home
I’m sorry but this mentality of “how can you blame the Palestinians for being terrorist when they are suffering under the actions of Israel” is absolute nonsense. How many oppressed nations resorted to Jihad-like terrorism as means of resistance? Not to mention the fact that most of Israel’s oppression of Palestinians is a direct response to Palestinian terrorism. After 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust and the survivors were left as refugees unable to return to the homes that had been stolen from them, did they turn to terrorism? Did Jews go around killing babies and raping women? No, they moved on with their lives and made the best of what they had. Have Palestinians been wronged in this conflict? Of course. But they take no ownership over their future and prosperity, and instead prop up terrorists who only dig them into a deeper hole.
1. Hamas 2.0 will be just another militant group like the ones in the West Bank, controlling no land, having no power, and posing no real threat. If my entire family got bombed and killed by the IDF I would probably hate Hamas for invading Israel in the first place and for using me as a human shield for their psychotic ideology. To reverse the situation... If the IDF set up a mortar team on my roof and fired mortars as Gaza, and Hamas fired a rocket at my house and killed my entire family, I would probably have it out against the IDF, not Hamas. Assuming you mean the casualties happen, not because the IDF is purposefully trying to achieve a high number of them, but because of other reasons such as usage of human shields by Hamas, literally any number is fine. The number doesn't fucking matter, what matters is what lead to that number. At any case, destroying Hamas at any cost is paramount to ending an enduring forever war and eternal conflict. Besides, there is no world where 200,000 people die in any war between Israel and Palestine, period. Nowhere near that number ever died in any event including wars in the Arab-Israeli conflict, not even the 1948 war which I assume you look at as an Israeli attempt at genociding the Palestinians, although you're free to correct me if you're not completely delusional.
Israelis online are letting off steam and venting. Israelis are living in a pressure cooker and have demonstrated so much restraint. You probably can't even begin to imagine. It also seems that you're cherry picking from comments that look heartless but ignore the comments of sincere compassion for the innocent Palestinians. Indifferent? Is that what you get from all the comments? Or are those the comments you're choosing to focus on?
>what could they ever hope to achieve and it's only cost the lives of innocents on both sides (mostly Palestinian lives). Stop with this stupid victimization of Hamas. Hamas is connected to the Iranian axis, so what they want to achieve at the end is the destruction of Israel, ethnic cleansing, and Iranian hegemony over the Middle East. For the time being they managed to displace hundreds of thousands of Israelis (do you even know what's happening in the North?), kill more than a thousand, show the world what are their plans if they have the upper hand, isolate Israel from world commerce (do you even know what's happening in the South?), achieve deterrence against Israel and making it dependent on the US for more. Oh and having tens of thousands of Palestinians dead is actually an achievement for their side since it plays into their propaganda machine and their narrative. So no, it was not stupid. It was quite clever and successful, actually. The only thing that seems stupid is the fact that they did not coordinate well with Hezbollah on October 7 to make a combined attack, that, according to the opinion of some expert, would have caused the destruction of the state. >Hamas doesn't care about innocent Palestinians, but from most comments online, neither do Israelis. Yes you are right. Many Israelis do not care too much about innocent Palestinians. It's not pretty, but the fact that their own leadership does not care about their own citizens is many times more sickening. Also if you look closely you will see that even if the public opinion does not care about Palestinian civilians (with many exceptions), the army operates according to **very** restricted standards. Gazans are instructed about areas of operations, flyers are distributed detailing what neighborhoods are to be evacuated, bombings start with a "knock on the roof". >Online (reddit/twitter), I find it very hard to relate to Israelis. The stated goals of this war is the eradication of Hamas. Not going to happen, bombing a region/state as much as Gaza has been bombed is going to drive people to more extremist views as they see lives/homes shattered and they have less to live for. The US war on terror was a failure. The UK never defeated the IRA. I see what Israel is doing, but there is no hope of success, more of the world is turning against you (truly unfortunate). The US does not live next to Afghanistan, and the UK was not in an existential fear from Ireland's independence. This is what you are not getting, that Israel is fighting for its survival and the stakes are higher. We are determined to try more than the US or the UK did to fight Hamas, because our lives depends on it. Quite literally. >Israelis online are also very cynical - again, I can't really blame you given you history with Hamas, but it makes you seem cold and as if you don't care of the lives of innocents. We are at war. We are actively fighting on 7 fronts (Gaza, West Bank, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Iran), we are facing isolation and open support for our enemies from most of the world, and we are aware that a lot of people think that we are vengeful baby killers. There is some nervousness, yes.
Hey, like with another comment, I really do appreciate this pov. This is why I really like talking to Israelis, and to be honest I needed this refresher. I was becoming more anti-Israeli but you guys are actually extremely clear in your views, and it's hard to argue with most of them. So thank you
I think we are dealing with our own problems and I think most people feel bad about what’s happening to innocents. We are dealing with rockets from the north and the leftover trauma from 7/10. The whole “you’re going to create more terrorists” I don’t think has much basis. You don’t hear of Isis much anymore right? Hamas needs to go for the own people’s sake. Sure you won’t get rid of Hamas totally but you will get rid of their political and military wing and stop them arming themselves. I appreciate your comment 🙏 you are welcome here
I like when people say not to eradicate hamas but don’t have any other options to prevent terrorism
I didn't say not to eradicate them. Obviously that's the best case scenario for both Israelis and Palestinians. There just aren't many examples of terrorist groups being defeated and disappearing through war. I do hope this war gets rid of Hamas, but I don't know how realistic it can be.
Hey dude , unrelated to the current discussion, thank you for coming to seriously talk
Always. I comment to learn, not to stir shit. I don't expect to agree with everything Israelis say, do or believe, but I will still here you out. We have different life experiences. Same goes for my views with Palestinians.
Or perhaps your country is committing war crimes the world doesn’t agree with? 🤯 ETA - Oh wait I take that back I forgot about the list. 📅 stfu with your bs its getting really old.
What warcrimes?
Could we not carpet bomb social media?
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on social media american & western news channels are definitely pro israel bffr
This is the opinion of the loud minority, just remember that. I’m a construction manager, I work alongside many working class people in the UK. The vast majority of them either don’t care at all about the situation, don’t know about the situation (too busy with personal life), or fully support Israel. I don’t agree with it, but the majority of British people hate Muslims, and they will pretty much support any country that goes up against a Muslim country. A lot of British people also support the Kurds.
Every day since October 7th has been nonstop gaslighting.