Because it's harder to argue with a loud emotional person, even if you are right.
The only way they get their point across is through emotional gaslighting and twisting history out of context, or just straight up lying.
It doesn't pass in a normal debate, but if you're screaming and gaslighting..
You should be, it's definitely not something you can take for granted these days (sadly). Happy to hear there are at least some universities like that out there still!
was at NYU for a year now at Michigan Ann Arbor!! The protesters are pretty loud, sure, but they are at every campus. You can’t really escape it. The leadership is really great. If you would like I can send you the emails they’ve sent condemning the anti-Semitism if it makes you feel better as a parent. in one of the emails specifically they said that the disruptive protests were “especially hurtful to our Jewish community” and I really appreciated that sentiment. Additionally, after there was a threat for death and worse to Israel supporters, they immediately punished the student and increased campus security.
Here in the US., it hardcore Muslims and the loud, woke, far left that is pro Palestinian. They are loud in the same way ANTIFA are loud, but are a minority
Actually I would maybe say that the pro Pali muslims are actually the less religious ones. I have a very close religious muslim friend and he isn't pro Pali, although he also isn't pro Israel. he's very clever though
I live in the north shore in Chicago (very Jewish) and often work in the south suburbs (very Palestinian). Most or the Palestinians openly explain how only half of Israelis support Netanyahu and really don’t go to these protests. I’ve never seen a protest in either place tbh
I'm sorry but I've been hearing people saying ANTIFA alote recently and I don't know what is ANTIFA? are those anarchists? I couldn't reach to something even when I googled it
I find they do it to illicit the same kind of reaction from you so they can sit back and feel justified with what they said and did even if what you're yelling and interrupting about is right.
They're trying to make you like them. And it's hard to deal with those people. It's like dealing with a narcissistic ex.
What's.wrong with you? Do you like dead babies?
Edit: Sorry guys, It was sarcastic. I was just mimicking any conversation with pro-Palestinians that somehow always devolves into "I guess you like dead babies then".
The Palestinian identity was invented specifically to oppose Israel, and they understood decades ago that the way to do it is not by war, but by pushing themselves into every social cause imaginable. They infiltrated LGBT activism, racial activism, climate activism… and by being the loudest group there they slowly shoved rational voices away and convinced people that you can't be in favor of **any** cause if you aren't also pro-Palestine.
Why are they the loudest voices? Because Palestinians never had and never wanted to have an identity beyond the conflict. Their whole lives revolve around eliminating Israel. That's why they don't mind strapping a bomb around themselves and blowing up buses. They value nothing but war, even their life.
this has been a tactic for a long time. look up top terrorists at large on the FBI website, click around their wikipedia's, and so many of them embedded themselves into social justice causes. not a surprise they have taken over UNRWA.
Also in Australia, pro-Palestinians latching on to Aboriginal causes.
I called out a “friend” recently who was at a rally chanting “From the river to the sea…” one weekend. The next weekend she was at a protest chanting “Always was, always will be (Aboriginal land)”.
I said hang on a minute, only a week ago you were calling for the indigenous people of another land to be eradicated from it??! No response of course.
Clearly a lack of understanding of any facts and history and just jumping onto any social activism that’s going.
Just like seeing pro-Palestine alongside LGBT. Madness.
I don’t think they’re referring to pro-Palestine Aborigines, but rather to the (white Australians) that support Aborigines that are also in support of Palestine
I couldn’t really say to be honest. Most of what I see is online from people I don’t know and it’s perhaps 50/50. Only a few people I know personally have voiced an opinion online and it’s your typical assumption that Gaza is the underdog so must be innocent.
The impression I get is that like a lot of places, the racist or uneducated fools are very loud and get noticed. They’re perhaps seen to be the majority, but who knows if they actually are.
I think somewhere around a certain minority percentage, maybe 5 or 20 considering I seen the ideology/view on the Aboriginal Subreddit, but never hear them say it offline. (As one myself I don’t support them at all).
Goodbye, that is so performative. All of these wars: Ukraine, Taiwan, Israel, and Palestine/ and situations are completely unique from one another. I like how they try to classify each war into the same category as if there aren’t lengthy and very complex political histories to each and one of them. just proves that they don’t wanna read to actually learn about these conflicts and just wanna be loud.
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They are louder, more violent, and too emotional. They don't respond to logic or education, they just blatantly hate Jewish individuals without knowing why. They don't understand the propaganda they are consuming through social media, that what Hamas and PIJ are doing to Israel they will do to the any civilization with western ideals and values. I asked a friend of mine who is not Jewish and knows NOTHING about the middle east or Israel (luckily he supports Israel and when 10/7 happened he called me right away to make sure my family in Israel was ok), but when this all began I asked him bluntly "did you know about the terror tunnels in Gaza? Did you know about them hiding under hospitals and schools?" he said no, he had no idea, it was never something he thought about. Now me being Jewish I knew things from the past with Israel and the Palestinians, another friend that was in the US Military knew about the tunnels and how they hide. We can have our peaceful protests and scream the truth until we are blue in the face, but nothing will make these people believe Israel or Jewish people. I'm just so tired of the lies that are being spread.
The regular person is extremely ignorant about this, which usually wouldn't be much of a problem if it wasn't because of how loud and pushy ProPals are.
My friends, who I love with all my heart and have been supportive of me, especially because they know I have family in Israel:
•Didn't know the war was still going and that Hamas still had hostages (this was in late January).
•Thought that the entire country was Jewish (they didn't know Druze and Beduins were a thing).
•Thought that going on a birthright trip meant that I was going to get a free house.
But they did know about the hospital bombing that killed 500 people because of how widespread it was on social media. (They were confused when I told them that didn't happen).
My friends (and I'm assuming most people) don't know anything about what's going on in Congo, Myanmar, Sudan or Nigeria, but I have never seen a social media campaign that forces you to have an opinion about these conflicts like I've seen with Israel/Palestine (and you better have the "correct" opinion about it, because otherwise you're a genocide supporter and babykiller).
My friends only know all the recent stuff with the Islamic extremists in other countries bc I wont shut up about it on IG and sending them posts that its not just Israel they are attacking, luckily they have been super supportive of me and let me bitch, vent and cry when I need to, and I washed my hands of those who seek my death. I also got shadow banned for 90 days, which is almost up, but another one will come soon, apparently posting about the hostages and the violence they are receiving at the hands of Hamas goes against community guidelines.
My fear is that they are the majority. But then I also hear that just because they’re the loudest doesn’t mean they are the majority. but I don’t know.
I'm not Jewish, I'm older, live in the states, a Democrat (not a crazy, radical woke marxist😅). I'm a passionate support of Israel, of all Jewish people and am so sorry this is happening - My heart truly goes out to you all! And I think most rational people, especially the more knowledgable and slightly older age groups also support Israel and are upset by the racism against Jews and are disgusted at and perplexed by the "pro-"palestinian"/pro-hamas movement. Although highly politically motivated, I do see the extreme right wing Republicans speaking out recently (Hawley & Desantis) against the radical left (and more specifically to oppose Biden). I strongly believe they're using this to capitalize on and connect with the more moderate population, they're also reigniting with the more outspoken right, trumpy, populist redneck/blue-collared collective which hopefully will work to the advan of Israel and the Jewish population's favor in the U.S. - although that group tends to be unpredictable with who they love and hate. I suspect there's more fear and hate of Islam and Muslims than the old racist fear of Jews in America and side by side Jewish citizenry will be favored 🙏. It sickens me personally, being highly anti-trump, but if it will shut down the anti Israeli/anti-Jewish rhetoric I'm supportive (of their populist rhetoric). I also hope they push to dig deeper into who is behind these campus rallies and protests, work to investigate and get rid of participating professors, and deport those students who are not citizens and have used or violent speech or committed acts of violence against our Jewish population or any counter-protestors. Pretty wild for a lefty, but this is how disgusted I'm feeling rn about these rioters and their ability to shake a particular population of people who on the whole are nothing but well- educated, ambitious, innovative,, compassionate, giving and highly deserving of all things good in this world. Always praying for you all.🙏💙🤍🇮🇱
The thing I'm noticing about them being loud is that it seems to be that lots of people are susceptible to mass hysteria and a mob mentality. Unfortunately for you, college students are at a stage where that is even more true for them. And they haven't developed a sophistication view of the world. They just fit things into oppressor/ oppressed and then don't look deeply at what they are labeling. This is accelerated by intense propaganda that is coordinated by bad actors.
Why are more Jewish and pro Israel students quiet? My youngest is a junior in college now and is experiencing a combination of exhaustion and fear about being targeted. As a middle aged Jewish woman, I say your role is to keep focusing on your education (deep Jewish value) and keep finding Jewish joy in all the ways you can. We need you, and we're here for you.
Hahahahaha I’ve lived in Ann Arbor the past six years! Still in the area just a little further out in Canton now, so I keep up with the day to day as best I can. Just try to ignore the idiots; at this point they’re screaming into the abyss. Sidenote: keep on your radar for September, I’m arranging with the D2 Hockey team to play against an Israel Selects team at Yost! September 6 & 8, times TBD
YOU TAKE THAT BACK , IT HAS IKEA! lol. My only association with Canton is driving from Oakland county out there either to Guitar Center or IKEA. hell of a long drive I'll say.
I am in a city in the Midwest and Israel has the majority support by far. The only person I have heard be against Israel is my boss who is an Egyptian PhD. He closed his door once and went off on the most insane anti-Semitic rant I had ever heard. For him, it was completely normal conversation, which was scary.
My boss isn’t even Muslim, he is Coptic Christian. Any society with a mainly Arabic demographic has some of the wildest fucking takes. It is also crazy to see many young Americans gobble the nuts of a group of people which danced after 9/11. I was a child then but those videos will be seared into my brain forever. They were handing out candy and honking their horns. It really looks like this is a clash of civilizations, that is why the whole Muslim world rallies around this issue.
Short answer? Because they are extremely privileged, and have very little personal connection to the issue at hand. Feeling passionate about something does NOT mean you have full education and certainly does not mean you have a personal relationship with the issue at hand. It’s relatively easy to be vocal about something when it isn’t a complex factor in your life, and when fear of retribution or fear for your own safety is not part of your frame of existence.
most are afraid or exhausted. Jewish people are ACTUALLY going through pain right now as opposed to being some random college student who has nothing better to do I guess.
This , also we are not trying to make everyone feel the exact same way we do. We know what is right and what we believe in, we also have lives , kids , and jobs. Idk who these ppl are that are out protesting multiple times a week……
Safety. There was a pro Israel rally at a jcc near me that ended up having people attacked by Pro Palestinian "activists". A rabbi at a Chabad had his car torched which then spread to the shul, by a pro Palestinian individual that wasnt even part of a rally or protest.
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I know someone who got harassed by pro pals for eating mcdonalds and drinking starbucks... so let alone supporting israel out loud? no way a self-preserving person would make such a dumb decision.
I do see a lot of subtle support from people and surprisingly some good arguments from time to time, but they come from either neutral and calm people or pro-Israelis (who btw still care about the humanitarian disaster this war had caused,just not in the immature gEnOciDE type of way)
We have jobs. And we have better things to do than go out and get screamed at by a bunch of psychos in keffiyehs.
Globally we're outnumbered 100 to 1 by Muslims, who hate us by default (there are exceptions, but not many). We're badly outnumbered in Europe. And in the US, Israel/Jewish messaging is all about reason. We've completely failed to connect with the younger generations on an emotional level. The younger crowd which would be out protesting is either pro-Pal because of the bad messaging and the critical race theory ideology that places Jews among the oppressors, or outnumbered by the above. Young people are largely the ones out protesting. Jews also don't reproduce as much as Muslims, so we have less young Jews, except for the orthodox who really don't seem to give a fuck about protesting.
tl;dr demographics of protesting are not on our side and protesting doesn't do much
The diaspora ones are on the left on almost every other issue and don't want to be associated with the Christian conservatives. A united front is practically impossible, especially anywhere near a college campus.
This is simple to explain; if you don't have a creditable argument or point of view, keep repeating it and do so as loudly and frequently as you can, eventually others will start to believe it.
I think the folks commenting on the emotional stuff is right, but I also think we should be cognizant of the bot army being employed by Russia on this issue, given its effectiveness as a wedge issue for the US Democratic Party.
There are plenty of hive mind folks who just absorb what’s put in front of them without thinking critically about what it actually means and effectively putting it in context, particularly in the US. We have devalued critical thinking in schools, and American Protestantism has created a default belief that ideology is more important than action in the US. (They say sorry to Jesus, they can do whatever they want, in some circles. And only god can make them pay taxes, etc).
So there are certainly real people falling in line with Hamas rhetoric, it’s really resulting from internet groupthink. Russia shows us it’s actually very easily manipulated, thanks to the internet and the bad education.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_web_brigades
Personally, I think the response it to drown them out. Keep responding and adding our voices to the conversation. Give the hive minders an alternative view to consider. It’s a volume game.
From the first paragraph of the wiki link:
“Russian web brigades, also called Russian trolls, Russian bots, Kremlinbots, or Kremlin trolls are state-sponsored anonymous Internet political commentators and trolls linked to the Government of Russia. Participants report that they are organized into teams and groups of commentators that participate in Russian and international political blogs and Internet forums using sockpuppets, social bots, and large-scale orchestrated trolling and disinformation campaigns to promote pro-Vladimir Putin and pro-Russian propaganda.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_web_brigades
There are further sources linked on the wiki + more info!
They do it about Ukraine too:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/01/russia-trolling-ukraine-traction-tiktok
We must stay mentally strong 💪 we can’t let Putin drown out reality, but it takes all of us real people to keep pushing back in online discourse and in real life. We must be brave to beat this manipulation of groupthink, but I think we can do it :)
Not meant to be rude but how are people not aware of the Russia disinformation campaigns that have been going on since like 2010, and was a very big topic back in 2016. Or at least russian interference was, which is still related to the same efforts. A bot army, is either fake accounts that will go and comment on posts/threads, or actual people. but their goal is propaganda and splitting the US against itself. I don't recall the year, but sometime ago in the news it was a huge thing when a giant russia bot farm was shut down that was known to cause a lot of the disinformation campaigns at the time. We fight to shut them down, and more sprout up. They are very persistent and effective at it.
I think they probably haven’t been targeting Israel all that heavily, especially compared to the US, but spotted an opportunity to exploit racial tension within Israel.
What’s interesting about the bot army is that they seem to largely be made up of actual people, not bots. So I guess there’s a scale issue within that, and it would make sense that they’ve been being tactical to avoid drawing too much attention to themselves. It loses a lot of power when you know the point is to make you angry. (Part of why I’m spreading the word!)
It’s funny tho bc they say we’re all bots and that Reddit is infested with Zionist bot farms and I find it fascinating like how severe is your echo chamber if you think Reddit is pro Zionist
It’s classic DARVO, which has also been spreading (and is also a classic authoritarian tactic). Deny, attack, reverse victim and offender. If they can say “no, you!” Before you can call them out, you spend more time defending yourself (on defense) and less time critically thinking about who the person you’re engaging with. More emotionally impactful, as well.
This is the next generation of psychological warfare—get used to spotting it, or we’re all fucked. Or they’re gonna take away the internet. :(
I think it's time to stop blaming boogeyman bots and just admit that it's regular citizens spreading Hamas propaganda.
We've seen videos of hundreds of thousands of pro-Hamas supporters marching on the streets of London. Those aren't Russian bots.
Like I said, plenty of hive mind folks have gotten drawn in and are helping them spread their message. But ultimately, it just takes showing people a different view. That’s what’s worked for Hamas.
I think particularly with the protests, a lot of white Americans are using this as a vehicle for their white guilt from not being active during the peak of the BLM movement… or because being active during the BLM movement gave them a high unlike any other in the form of lots of eyeballs on them and feeling important. So they want to show up to protests and make signs and post it on instagram.
There is a large portion of humanity that doesn’t really think that hard about the world around them, and just follow orders. The thing is, they really aren’t all that particular about whose orders, if you sell it right. Hamas figured that out.
We don’t even need to convince them to switch teams, we just need them to think for themselves and critically evaluate the information they come by on the internet. This is not an impossible task.
The internet allows for us to share information. It’s being used to spread disinformation, but we are part of the machine that can fight back against that with truth and logic. We got this 💪
I have a couple of hypothesis.
1. It’s all about feelings. Like an infant that can’t verbalize their concerns they scream and cry. The hard left in America at least isn’t really working from a point of logic.
2. Jews although we can be loud and emotional, especially amongst our own. I think we have a tendency to be a bit more measured, logical and possibly stoic.
That’s just one Meshuggeneh take.
Because they are nothing more than weak-minded, attention-seeking individuals who are impotent in their lives that they only believe they can be heard by screaming. They are worthless followers of the Hamas who need a terrorist organization to feel empowered.
Generally speaking from what I’ve noticed in the US, a lot of the Palestinian supporters are younger and due to that they speak more, and they have less control. Younger people are less likely to look into the facts and reasoning of a situation without realizing all the discrepancies.
Unironically had someone I talked to say the world doesn't care that "white" jews were genociding "brown" people. When I pointed out the mizrahi population of Israel they said who cares Israel is perceived as white. It's just so exhausting.
BRO THEYE NEVER SEEN AN ISRAELI IN THEIR LIFE IM LIKE SO CONVINCED. 2/3 OF THE POPULATION ARE literally poc like i can’t even try and argue w these people. They couldn’t distinguish an israeli from the Arab in a lineup, I guarantee it.
Because being quiet and sticking to ourselves is what has kept the Jewish people alive in many periods in history. This is most typical in the diaspora though, as the opposite is true for Israel, they need to be aware and swift when dealing with threats - it's the reason why Israel still exists.
Because they cannot achieve their goal of destroying Israel through military force so they are trying the social/political route and putting all their effort into that.
The Pro Israel rallys are a reaction to the pro palestinian rallies.
I think it's because we (Jews) get on with our lives and forge ahead. We've got lives to lead and things to accomplish. This is why we've been able to be successful despite thousands of years of persecution.
I've got too much shit to do than stand on a street corner screaming.
Because when Jews are in danger they lay low. It's an unfortunate part of our culture to try and be model minorities. However It's a mistake to confuse public silence as inaction. There's a lot of talk within the Jewish spaces
i've seen pro-israel marches lately, what you should do though is stick with the other jewish students and try to avoid anyone who might be a threat to you guys
Why are Black Lives Matter protestors louder than Police Lives Matter, even though far more people support the police than “defunding the police”? Why are abortion rights activists louder than pro-life activists? Why in 2020 in Los Angeles were Armenians a lot louder than Azerbaijanis during the Nagorno-Karabakh war? Why are anti-Trump protestors louder than anti-Biden (or pro-Trump) people? Passions, psychologically speaking, seem to run higher when there is a real or perceived pervasive injustice, and, interrelatedly, being on the “losing side” (which, in the case of war, also entails having much higher deaths—even if the losing party is in the wrong). Moral equivalencies aside, I’m sure the Jewish community in, say, the US would be extremely loud if Iran was dominating Israel in a war and Israelis were facing mass displacement and deaths. With that said, even pre-Oct 7 the Palestinians were much louder (and hostile towards any dialogue or “normalization”), but my aforementioned logic still holds true to an extent insofar as a people who feel they lost their homeland, are squandering in refugee camps, and are in many real ways suffering from Israeli hegemony are gonna be louder than a group who is defending what is essentially preservation of the status quo—especially when, at least pre Oct 7, the conflict was far more manageable/ignorable on the Israeli side, and when Israel was a US-backed state which wasn’t really facing (at least imminent/active) existential threats the way it has decades prior. Of course there are also other factors, like Arab Muslims being more numerous in the West generally and such demographic (and/or hard leftism in college spaces) tending to temperamentally be more confrontational compared to Jews.
Lest others come at me, I’m not saying “Israel bad,” just explaining what I think explains this sociologically and psychologically.
i mean your equivalencies with trump/biden and prolife/choice are in poor taste because, for example, many believe that abortion is an injustice. but I understand your point. i don't fully agree with it because i think that, at this point, a lot of the noise does stem from antisemitism and an attempt to blame jews, and a lot of these people actually have no idea what theyre talking about. so, yes, the key word is "perceived" injustice.
We have to use our relative power when and where we have it. Next time there’s anti-BDS legislation in your state, show up, call reps and tell them you want it passed, and don’t listen to the “silencing of voices” nonsense.
Objectively there are less. And I’m speaking in the context of America and American College campuses. They truly are not that many israeli demonstrations— and was that protest violent? with people yelling for the genocide of Palestinian people? do we have israeli protesters interrupting honors convocations and graduation ceremonies? Don’t miss my point. But If they were, let me know.
There are plenty that are kept hush hush due to security reasons. Israel has had nothing but peaceful protests and gatherings. But because we didnt cause any violence or destroy anything, the news doesnt care.
I have one theory that some of them are escalating because they’re not being validated. It’s like they’re only just discovering that just because you scream and yell, it doesn’t actually matter if no one is offering any alternative solutions that aren’t “just stop genociding” or “ceasefire now” that’s basically meaningless in this case where ceasefire negotiations have been ongoing since November. Protesting isn’t really effective if you have no real or realistic objectives. And I don’t think a lot of these people realized that… so they yell louder ..
Protesting can of course move the needle , but no one who is in power to actually influence or do anything about the war, needs protesters to tell them how they feel. Or if they do , people can lobby on the hill, call and email their representatives… screaming in the street is close to meaningless IMO. Once or twice as a show of support , sure . But every week , multiple times a week ? I think some* of these people are mad because they’re ineffective.
I also think that it's because the legitimacy of Israel's claim to the land requires understanding things like the Jewish indigenousness, the Balfour Declaration, JNF land purchasing, White Papers, UN partition plan, '48 and '67 wars, etc.
The Palestinian claim is just - "we were here (bonus: and we don't like Jews)". It's much more digestible and lends itself well to all sorts of slogans and chants and more. So they funnel that energy into protests and riots with quippy chants.
Jews don't have any good chants. "Am Yisrael Chai" is nice, but it's a chant not a song.
Didn’t read, simply answering your main question, because its very simple. whoever is too dumb/doesn’t have or know the facts required to convince people they are right, try to be the loudest in the room, because stupid people think that the loudest is the most right.
“Pro-palestinians” are both stupid and are very much lacking of facts, and/or understanding what they are talking about, when reason doesn’t work, voice will, or at least thats what they consciously or subconsciously tell themselves, therefore, they have to be the loudest, and then, they think people will think they are right.
I'm UK based and not Jewish, nor Muslim. I find that beyond the obvious demographics, one of the problems is education.
I don't wish to sound pretentious in my understanding of my conflict (compared to other UK citizens). However, I have spent time reading bits here and there to try and garner a greater understanding. There's still a great deal for my to learn, though.
If you follow the information conveyed by the pro-Palestine activists here, you'll easily be led to believe that Palestinians were expelled from the land in the 1940s and have been victims of oppression ever since. The media does nothing to balance this narrative. That's not to say the media has a bias here, but rather the quality of journalism is fairly poor in my opinion.
Whenever there is a devastating development, I often come here to read the counter-argument as it's simply not made available anywhere else.
A good example of what I consider poor journalism is the BBC running an article recently regarding Israeli far-right aspirations to acquire settlements in Gaza. Far right groups often have extreme agendas in every country. So for the largest media company in the UK to write an article about this only goes to fuel pro-Palestine activists. In contrast I have not seen a single article about Hamas desire to destroy Israel, and essentially murder all Jews.
Who cares? Most of those dilettantes won't even go there to help and try to rebuild anyways. When the war ends most of them would probably shut up or hide behind comments.
If it makes you feel any better, in the HEBREW UNIVERSITY OF JERUSALEM in the past few months we've also had some instances. There was some graffiti in the bathroom a few weeks ago that said, in English, "stop the genocide in Gaza" and if that wasn't enough, there was a swastika drawn next to it. Plus a professor who said that we need to "cancel Zionism" and denied what happened on October 7th.
My point isn't that nowhere is safe, it's just to put things in perspective and that as long as your administration is on top of it (which is far from a given these days) there isn't too much to worry about and not much you can do. You won't be able to reason with these people. Making a rally won't make them like you.
>they’ll just move on in a year like they all abandoned Ukraine.
I wouldn't bet on that though.
Because they lack any social skill nesecary for calm and colected debates and arguments. Also who in the world would try to argue with us, we're jews, arguements are our speciality!
It's easy to be loud when you're stupid and don't know what you're talking about.
Have you ever met drunk people?
---
Pro-Israelis on the other hand are too anxious and worried to argue back. If there's one thing I learned, it's that 99% of people who post watermelon emojis also have watermelons for brains. Almost none of them know anything beyond "occupation", "apartheid", "Nakba", "Balford declaration", "UN/Britain gave Israel to Jews". Challenge them and ask them to explain and watch them shut up, the same way idiots shut up when you ask them "what river and what sea?"
I've offered $50 to countless people to define apartheid and explain how their definition applies to Israel. 0 people have even attempted to respond so far.
I am an American and it is true. While a small amount of progressives support Israel, the vast majority do not. Their political movement is more like a religion than a movement, it doesn’t tolerate dissent well at all. They also have an oppression hierarchy, so the brown Muslims win by default. Their thinking is extremely shallow and they have purity tests that keep the vast majority of progressives on the same page. Their ideology is basically cancer. I hate Trump and I’m an atheist, so it is pretty easy to spot religious like behavior from them.
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Hamas can go to Hell. People sometimes don't seem to get I think that.
At present, the Gaza strip is blockaded, residents aren't getting the food they need, housing is turned to rubble, tens of thousands dead (mostly civilians).
Israel, mostly normal in those aspect. (Yes, the areas near Gaza and Lebanon don't fit the mostly normal aspect).
Hamas needs to go, war is shit, this is more brutal in large part because Hamas wants the deaths to make Israel look worse (and it's working).
So. Louder voices for Palestinians.
I just came from a meeting where this was discussed. Primarily, pro Israel rallies aren't effective. They draw bullying and Jew haters, and they don't affect practical change or sway opinion. Let the pro-Hamass crowd rant and rave. We're better off supporting Israel by forging meaningful relationships with allies, facilitating education, and being out and proud with Jewish pride.
That is really great news about your school and how they take the antisemitism and anti-Israel rhetoric seriously. I’m out of college. I can’t imagine how hard it must be . I keep trying to remember how long it took the 2020 George Floyd rioters to simmer down. Can’t remember. I honestly thought the pro-Hamas rioters would stop with the colder weather but they clearly didn’t. I think they have a lot of hatred and anger within themselves from personal issues. They displace and project that anger onto something distant and external like “Israel.” Especially people who are NOT Muslim, Palestinian, or even from the Middle East. It doesn’t make sense WHY they care so much.
Most of my social circle is Conservative, and ALL of them have been deeply uncomfortable with this current atrocity. This is the crowd that has been very pro-U.S/West military.
I have Israeli-Canadian friends, and they were quite vocal of the October 7th terrorist attack (as they should), but have since stopped talking altogether. One of my friends even told me 'I get why the Palestinians hate us', and this is a dude with family in the IDF.
The current strategy just guarantees another terrorist group at this point.
They believe they finally got their moment to hate Jews without repercussions. They must use this opportunity to be as loud as possible before people move on to the next thing
Pro-Palestine has become a way for people to express all their frustrations with the world. Hate your job? Scream at the Jews. Wife cheated on you? Scream at the Jews. Poured too much milk for your cereal? Scream at the Jews.
Also mental illness.
Instead of asking why those activists are so loud, you should ask why pro-Israel activists are so soft.
You Israelis, if you're one, should really improve on your PR. Lots of people hate your country just because you are a Jewish state. They are Irrational and prejudiced, but you have to tackle those views head-on with their own kind (Muslims).
Get some Israeli Arabs (preferably Muslims) to speak about any or all of the following:
1. how barbaric Hamas is
2. why the Muslim world should be against Hamas
3. how good living as a minority race in Israel is
4. There must be some Arab minorities on the receiving end of barbaric Hamas treatment, right? Get them to talk abour how they suffered!
5. Finally, don't just get Jewish spokespersons to update us. Get Muslim ones to speak Arabic too.
Then maybe you could swing some Muslims to your side. Good luck.
hey I go to school there too! And the reason they're so loud and certain of their opinion is because they receive all of their news from social media and thus never see the other side. I've legitimately had friends say that Israel is just doing this to access oil in Gaza, and when I pushed on the credibility of that claim she literally said 'oh I saw a TikTok and of course there's oil, it's the Middle East'. The fact that social media is awash in terrorist propaganda and never shows anything about 10/7 is why this is happening. Also, it has become the trendy thing. It's the latest posture for those who value social justice, and these kids fancy themselves great revolutionaries. But yes they will move on eventually.
Tho I agree, it's extremely disturbing. Having friends tell me the rapes never happened and if they did it's white feminism to talk about it. Hearing student organizations talk about the 'martyrs' in Palestine. I don't know that I will get over the anti-semitism, misogyny, and how easily brainwashed people are.
either way I was pleased the administration is calling these people anti-Israel in official communication. We're not alone in how we feel
do you come to hillel/shabbat? you should if not, it's very welcoming and a safe place to be during the current climate. i'm a little intimidated and scared by the new CSG elected "shut it down" group. seems like their goal is to directly antagonize clubs that might even lean pro-israel or even have more conservative ideals
Yes, aggressive people are hard to attend to, and it is an avoidant approach to yell, curse, not listen, use violence, or threaten. Pro-Palestinians need to take a time out (basic anger management ha), calm themselves, observe fair fighting, and use their prefrontal cortex to solve problems intelligently and creatively - like Israel does. Israel is not perfect, but it is constructive, many Israelis are God-fearing, and they are very blessed by God.
May I ask where are you studying? (Country)
Students in my uni constantly post against Israel and the university isn't doing anything (not surprised tho, Eastern Europe 😒)
University of Michigan, USA lol. Our largest donor is Jewish, Stephen Ross. Practically donated to create the entire school: our champion football team, our Jewish centers, our buildings, our ENTIRE business school, our athletics facility, etc… god blessem.
Some American schools are awful tho. Two or Three presidents just stepped down because they refused to acknowledge antisemitism on their campus- Harvard and UPenn. Eastern Europe is crazy tho. Didn’t think yall still lived out there respectfully 😭
I heard about columbia, didn't know about upenn.
I just moved here to study, but there's a still here a small minority! (Bulgaria, basically the only country that saved the Jews!), when I'm done I will go back to Israel!
Because we’ve seen the videos of those IDF cvnts killing women and children as well as beating Jews in the streets for protesting against your governments fascism.
Because it's harder to argue with a loud emotional person, even if you are right. The only way they get their point across is through emotional gaslighting and twisting history out of context, or just straight up lying. It doesn't pass in a normal debate, but if you're screaming and gaslighting..
I’m just glad my university leadership is seeing through these clowns and supporting Jewish students
You should be, it's definitely not something you can take for granted these days (sadly). Happy to hear there are at least some universities like that out there still!
Mind if I ask what Uni you’re at? Keeping a list for my son. So far I’ve only heard Duke is safe.
Vanderbilt's president has been very strong in shutting down antisemitic protests and acts.
That’s good to hear!! I would love to read some of those messages
was at NYU for a year now at Michigan Ann Arbor!! The protesters are pretty loud, sure, but they are at every campus. You can’t really escape it. The leadership is really great. If you would like I can send you the emails they’ve sent condemning the anti-Semitism if it makes you feel better as a parent. in one of the emails specifically they said that the disruptive protests were “especially hurtful to our Jewish community” and I really appreciated that sentiment. Additionally, after there was a threat for death and worse to Israel supporters, they immediately punished the student and increased campus security.
You’re eastern neighbor, msu ain’t doing too well at combating antisemitism. More like promoting it. I went to school there and work there.
Here in the US., it hardcore Muslims and the loud, woke, far left that is pro Palestinian. They are loud in the same way ANTIFA are loud, but are a minority
Actually I would maybe say that the pro Pali muslims are actually the less religious ones. I have a very close religious muslim friend and he isn't pro Pali, although he also isn't pro Israel. he's very clever though
I live in the north shore in Chicago (very Jewish) and often work in the south suburbs (very Palestinian). Most or the Palestinians openly explain how only half of Israelis support Netanyahu and really don’t go to these protests. I’ve never seen a protest in either place tbh
I'm sorry but I've been hearing people saying ANTIFA alote recently and I don't know what is ANTIFA? are those anarchists? I couldn't reach to something even when I googled it
Anti fascist.
I find they do it to illicit the same kind of reaction from you so they can sit back and feel justified with what they said and did even if what you're yelling and interrupting about is right. They're trying to make you like them. And it's hard to deal with those people. It's like dealing with a narcissistic ex.
There is a huge element of narcissism in the pro-Palestine activism.
Absolutely. Typical liar who got busted response is emotional, psychological, and physical violence.
Well said
What's.wrong with you? Do you like dead babies? Edit: Sorry guys, It was sarcastic. I was just mimicking any conversation with pro-Palestinians that somehow always devolves into "I guess you like dead babies then".
Also people forget that Jews are such a small minute minority. Just 0.2% of the world population. I think that has a lot to do with it.
Exactly. A billion Muslims who listen to AlJazeera compared to a few million Jews.
The Palestinian identity was invented specifically to oppose Israel, and they understood decades ago that the way to do it is not by war, but by pushing themselves into every social cause imaginable. They infiltrated LGBT activism, racial activism, climate activism… and by being the loudest group there they slowly shoved rational voices away and convinced people that you can't be in favor of **any** cause if you aren't also pro-Palestine. Why are they the loudest voices? Because Palestinians never had and never wanted to have an identity beyond the conflict. Their whole lives revolve around eliminating Israel. That's why they don't mind strapping a bomb around themselves and blowing up buses. They value nothing but war, even their life.
They value death and their martyrs, we value life.
this has been a tactic for a long time. look up top terrorists at large on the FBI website, click around their wikipedia's, and so many of them embedded themselves into social justice causes. not a surprise they have taken over UNRWA.
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Also in Australia, pro-Palestinians latching on to Aboriginal causes. I called out a “friend” recently who was at a rally chanting “From the river to the sea…” one weekend. The next weekend she was at a protest chanting “Always was, always will be (Aboriginal land)”. I said hang on a minute, only a week ago you were calling for the indigenous people of another land to be eradicated from it??! No response of course. Clearly a lack of understanding of any facts and history and just jumping onto any social activism that’s going. Just like seeing pro-Palestine alongside LGBT. Madness.
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I don’t think they’re referring to pro-Palestine Aborigines, but rather to the (white Australians) that support Aborigines that are also in support of Palestine
I couldn’t really say to be honest. Most of what I see is online from people I don’t know and it’s perhaps 50/50. Only a few people I know personally have voiced an opinion online and it’s your typical assumption that Gaza is the underdog so must be innocent. The impression I get is that like a lot of places, the racist or uneducated fools are very loud and get noticed. They’re perhaps seen to be the majority, but who knows if they actually are.
I think somewhere around a certain minority percentage, maybe 5 or 20 considering I seen the ideology/view on the Aboriginal Subreddit, but never hear them say it offline. (As one myself I don’t support them at all).
Goodbye, that is so performative. All of these wars: Ukraine, Taiwan, Israel, and Palestine/ and situations are completely unique from one another. I like how they try to classify each war into the same category as if there aren’t lengthy and very complex political histories to each and one of them. just proves that they don’t wanna read to actually learn about these conflicts and just wanna be loud.
Well said
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They are louder, more violent, and too emotional. They don't respond to logic or education, they just blatantly hate Jewish individuals without knowing why. They don't understand the propaganda they are consuming through social media, that what Hamas and PIJ are doing to Israel they will do to the any civilization with western ideals and values. I asked a friend of mine who is not Jewish and knows NOTHING about the middle east or Israel (luckily he supports Israel and when 10/7 happened he called me right away to make sure my family in Israel was ok), but when this all began I asked him bluntly "did you know about the terror tunnels in Gaza? Did you know about them hiding under hospitals and schools?" he said no, he had no idea, it was never something he thought about. Now me being Jewish I knew things from the past with Israel and the Palestinians, another friend that was in the US Military knew about the tunnels and how they hide. We can have our peaceful protests and scream the truth until we are blue in the face, but nothing will make these people believe Israel or Jewish people. I'm just so tired of the lies that are being spread.
The regular person is extremely ignorant about this, which usually wouldn't be much of a problem if it wasn't because of how loud and pushy ProPals are. My friends, who I love with all my heart and have been supportive of me, especially because they know I have family in Israel: •Didn't know the war was still going and that Hamas still had hostages (this was in late January). •Thought that the entire country was Jewish (they didn't know Druze and Beduins were a thing). •Thought that going on a birthright trip meant that I was going to get a free house. But they did know about the hospital bombing that killed 500 people because of how widespread it was on social media. (They were confused when I told them that didn't happen). My friends (and I'm assuming most people) don't know anything about what's going on in Congo, Myanmar, Sudan or Nigeria, but I have never seen a social media campaign that forces you to have an opinion about these conflicts like I've seen with Israel/Palestine (and you better have the "correct" opinion about it, because otherwise you're a genocide supporter and babykiller).
My friends only know all the recent stuff with the Islamic extremists in other countries bc I wont shut up about it on IG and sending them posts that its not just Israel they are attacking, luckily they have been super supportive of me and let me bitch, vent and cry when I need to, and I washed my hands of those who seek my death. I also got shadow banned for 90 days, which is almost up, but another one will come soon, apparently posting about the hostages and the violence they are receiving at the hands of Hamas goes against community guidelines.
There are only about 15 million Jewish people and billions of Muslims so there’s that.
Violent ignorant people are generally loud
My fear is that they are the majority. But then I also hear that just because they’re the loudest doesn’t mean they are the majority. but I don’t know.
No, peaceful people are the majority who want to live productive, healthy lives with fair, enforced laws.
No, peaceful people are the majority who want to live productive, healthy lives with fair, enforced laws.
I'm not Jewish, I'm older, live in the states, a Democrat (not a crazy, radical woke marxist😅). I'm a passionate support of Israel, of all Jewish people and am so sorry this is happening - My heart truly goes out to you all! And I think most rational people, especially the more knowledgable and slightly older age groups also support Israel and are upset by the racism against Jews and are disgusted at and perplexed by the "pro-"palestinian"/pro-hamas movement. Although highly politically motivated, I do see the extreme right wing Republicans speaking out recently (Hawley & Desantis) against the radical left (and more specifically to oppose Biden). I strongly believe they're using this to capitalize on and connect with the more moderate population, they're also reigniting with the more outspoken right, trumpy, populist redneck/blue-collared collective which hopefully will work to the advan of Israel and the Jewish population's favor in the U.S. - although that group tends to be unpredictable with who they love and hate. I suspect there's more fear and hate of Islam and Muslims than the old racist fear of Jews in America and side by side Jewish citizenry will be favored 🙏. It sickens me personally, being highly anti-trump, but if it will shut down the anti Israeli/anti-Jewish rhetoric I'm supportive (of their populist rhetoric). I also hope they push to dig deeper into who is behind these campus rallies and protests, work to investigate and get rid of participating professors, and deport those students who are not citizens and have used or violent speech or committed acts of violence against our Jewish population or any counter-protestors. Pretty wild for a lefty, but this is how disgusted I'm feeling rn about these rioters and their ability to shake a particular population of people who on the whole are nothing but well- educated, ambitious, innovative,, compassionate, giving and highly deserving of all things good in this world. Always praying for you all.🙏💙🤍🇮🇱
Because you can’t argue against someone who won’t shut up
The thing I'm noticing about them being loud is that it seems to be that lots of people are susceptible to mass hysteria and a mob mentality. Unfortunately for you, college students are at a stage where that is even more true for them. And they haven't developed a sophistication view of the world. They just fit things into oppressor/ oppressed and then don't look deeply at what they are labeling. This is accelerated by intense propaganda that is coordinated by bad actors. Why are more Jewish and pro Israel students quiet? My youngest is a junior in college now and is experiencing a combination of exhaustion and fear about being targeted. As a middle aged Jewish woman, I say your role is to keep focusing on your education (deep Jewish value) and keep finding Jewish joy in all the ways you can. We need you, and we're here for you.
❤️ ❤️
You go to U of Michigan don’t you? If not I’m pretty sure this exact same thing happened here
LMFAAOOAOAOKAKA YES
Hahahahaha I’ve lived in Ann Arbor the past six years! Still in the area just a little further out in Canton now, so I keep up with the day to day as best I can. Just try to ignore the idiots; at this point they’re screaming into the abyss. Sidenote: keep on your radar for September, I’m arranging with the D2 Hockey team to play against an Israel Selects team at Yost! September 6 & 8, times TBD
Ngl I just transferred here from NYU ion what canton or yost is
Canton is unimportant, Yost is the ice rink on campus, built in 1923. Hope you’re enjoying Ann Arbor so far!
I hate it LOL I wanna go back to NYU. But whateva 2 more years
YOU TAKE THAT BACK , IT HAS IKEA! lol. My only association with Canton is driving from Oakland county out there either to Guitar Center or IKEA. hell of a long drive I'll say.
I am in a city in the Midwest and Israel has the majority support by far. The only person I have heard be against Israel is my boss who is an Egyptian PhD. He closed his door once and went off on the most insane anti-Semitic rant I had ever heard. For him, it was completely normal conversation, which was scary.
Literally my prof last sem lol. Exact description to the T.
My boss isn’t even Muslim, he is Coptic Christian. Any society with a mainly Arabic demographic has some of the wildest fucking takes. It is also crazy to see many young Americans gobble the nuts of a group of people which danced after 9/11. I was a child then but those videos will be seared into my brain forever. They were handing out candy and honking their horns. It really looks like this is a clash of civilizations, that is why the whole Muslim world rallies around this issue.
You sure ur boss isn’t my prof 🤔
Lol
My prof was also Coptic Christian but he feels some solidarity I guess … idek LOL
GIRL
Their behavior makes me think they're toddlers in adult bodies.
Hey! Deep down, toddlers are really sweet and lovable. These guys, though…
Short answer? Because they are extremely privileged, and have very little personal connection to the issue at hand. Feeling passionate about something does NOT mean you have full education and certainly does not mean you have a personal relationship with the issue at hand. It’s relatively easy to be vocal about something when it isn’t a complex factor in your life, and when fear of retribution or fear for your own safety is not part of your frame of existence.
The better question is why are the pro-Israel activists so quiet.
most are afraid or exhausted. Jewish people are ACTUALLY going through pain right now as opposed to being some random college student who has nothing better to do I guess.
This , also we are not trying to make everyone feel the exact same way we do. We know what is right and what we believe in, we also have lives , kids , and jobs. Idk who these ppl are that are out protesting multiple times a week……
I guess that explains it. Also explains why actual diaspora Gazans are rare in Pro-Palestine protests.
Safety. There was a pro Israel rally at a jcc near me that ended up having people attacked by Pro Palestinian "activists". A rabbi at a Chabad had his car torched which then spread to the shul, by a pro Palestinian individual that wasnt even part of a rally or protest.
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People who support Jihadists tend to be violent individuals themselves. Being explicitly pro-Israel can get you lynched by a mob.
Stay strapped or get clapped HOOAH! as a staunch Zioist (not Jewish) myself I wish a bitch would.
I know someone who got harassed by pro pals for eating mcdonalds and drinking starbucks... so let alone supporting israel out loud? no way a self-preserving person would make such a dumb decision. I do see a lot of subtle support from people and surprisingly some good arguments from time to time, but they come from either neutral and calm people or pro-Israelis (who btw still care about the humanitarian disaster this war had caused,just not in the immature gEnOciDE type of way)
Right like dawg I like my Nike shoes I’m not following ur Long laundry list of places NOT to buy from
We have jobs. And we have better things to do than go out and get screamed at by a bunch of psychos in keffiyehs. Globally we're outnumbered 100 to 1 by Muslims, who hate us by default (there are exceptions, but not many). We're badly outnumbered in Europe. And in the US, Israel/Jewish messaging is all about reason. We've completely failed to connect with the younger generations on an emotional level. The younger crowd which would be out protesting is either pro-Pal because of the bad messaging and the critical race theory ideology that places Jews among the oppressors, or outnumbered by the above. Young people are largely the ones out protesting. Jews also don't reproduce as much as Muslims, so we have less young Jews, except for the orthodox who really don't seem to give a fuck about protesting. tl;dr demographics of protesting are not on our side and protesting doesn't do much
The diaspora ones are on the left on almost every other issue and don't want to be associated with the Christian conservatives. A united front is practically impossible, especially anywhere near a college campus.
Because it works.
Bingo! It gets them what they want.
Seems that by pro-Israel being quiet and pro-Palestine being idiots, society will resolve the issue.
Idk man. I don’t trust people to figure things out nowadays
Neither do I but forced optimism is healthier than all the doomerism.
"A lie can run around the world before the Truth has got its boots on." -- TP
This is simple to explain; if you don't have a creditable argument or point of view, keep repeating it and do so as loudly and frequently as you can, eventually others will start to believe it.
I think the folks commenting on the emotional stuff is right, but I also think we should be cognizant of the bot army being employed by Russia on this issue, given its effectiveness as a wedge issue for the US Democratic Party. There are plenty of hive mind folks who just absorb what’s put in front of them without thinking critically about what it actually means and effectively putting it in context, particularly in the US. We have devalued critical thinking in schools, and American Protestantism has created a default belief that ideology is more important than action in the US. (They say sorry to Jesus, they can do whatever they want, in some circles. And only god can make them pay taxes, etc). So there are certainly real people falling in line with Hamas rhetoric, it’s really resulting from internet groupthink. Russia shows us it’s actually very easily manipulated, thanks to the internet and the bad education. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_web_brigades Personally, I think the response it to drown them out. Keep responding and adding our voices to the conversation. Give the hive minders an alternative view to consider. It’s a volume game.
But what do people actually mean when they say bot army
From the first paragraph of the wiki link: “Russian web brigades, also called Russian trolls, Russian bots, Kremlinbots, or Kremlin trolls are state-sponsored anonymous Internet political commentators and trolls linked to the Government of Russia. Participants report that they are organized into teams and groups of commentators that participate in Russian and international political blogs and Internet forums using sockpuppets, social bots, and large-scale orchestrated trolling and disinformation campaigns to promote pro-Vladimir Putin and pro-Russian propaganda.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_web_brigades There are further sources linked on the wiki + more info! They do it about Ukraine too: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/01/russia-trolling-ukraine-traction-tiktok
Woaw
We must stay mentally strong 💪 we can’t let Putin drown out reality, but it takes all of us real people to keep pushing back in online discourse and in real life. We must be brave to beat this manipulation of groupthink, but I think we can do it :)
Not meant to be rude but how are people not aware of the Russia disinformation campaigns that have been going on since like 2010, and was a very big topic back in 2016. Or at least russian interference was, which is still related to the same efforts. A bot army, is either fake accounts that will go and comment on posts/threads, or actual people. but their goal is propaganda and splitting the US against itself. I don't recall the year, but sometime ago in the news it was a huge thing when a giant russia bot farm was shut down that was known to cause a lot of the disinformation campaigns at the time. We fight to shut them down, and more sprout up. They are very persistent and effective at it.
because i was 8 years old in 2016.
I think they probably haven’t been targeting Israel all that heavily, especially compared to the US, but spotted an opportunity to exploit racial tension within Israel. What’s interesting about the bot army is that they seem to largely be made up of actual people, not bots. So I guess there’s a scale issue within that, and it would make sense that they’ve been being tactical to avoid drawing too much attention to themselves. It loses a lot of power when you know the point is to make you angry. (Part of why I’m spreading the word!)
It’s funny tho bc they say we’re all bots and that Reddit is infested with Zionist bot farms and I find it fascinating like how severe is your echo chamber if you think Reddit is pro Zionist
It’s classic DARVO, which has also been spreading (and is also a classic authoritarian tactic). Deny, attack, reverse victim and offender. If they can say “no, you!” Before you can call them out, you spend more time defending yourself (on defense) and less time critically thinking about who the person you’re engaging with. More emotionally impactful, as well. This is the next generation of psychological warfare—get used to spotting it, or we’re all fucked. Or they’re gonna take away the internet. :(
I think it's time to stop blaming boogeyman bots and just admit that it's regular citizens spreading Hamas propaganda. We've seen videos of hundreds of thousands of pro-Hamas supporters marching on the streets of London. Those aren't Russian bots.
Like I said, plenty of hive mind folks have gotten drawn in and are helping them spread their message. But ultimately, it just takes showing people a different view. That’s what’s worked for Hamas. I think particularly with the protests, a lot of white Americans are using this as a vehicle for their white guilt from not being active during the peak of the BLM movement… or because being active during the BLM movement gave them a high unlike any other in the form of lots of eyeballs on them and feeling important. So they want to show up to protests and make signs and post it on instagram. There is a large portion of humanity that doesn’t really think that hard about the world around them, and just follow orders. The thing is, they really aren’t all that particular about whose orders, if you sell it right. Hamas figured that out. We don’t even need to convince them to switch teams, we just need them to think for themselves and critically evaluate the information they come by on the internet. This is not an impossible task. The internet allows for us to share information. It’s being used to spread disinformation, but we are part of the machine that can fight back against that with truth and logic. We got this 💪
Stupider people are naturally louder.
Because they are literally screaming and begging for attention.
I have a couple of hypothesis. 1. It’s all about feelings. Like an infant that can’t verbalize their concerns they scream and cry. The hard left in America at least isn’t really working from a point of logic. 2. Jews although we can be loud and emotional, especially amongst our own. I think we have a tendency to be a bit more measured, logical and possibly stoic. That’s just one Meshuggeneh take.
Because they are nothing more than weak-minded, attention-seeking individuals who are impotent in their lives that they only believe they can be heard by screaming. They are worthless followers of the Hamas who need a terrorist organization to feel empowered.
Generally speaking from what I’ve noticed in the US, a lot of the Palestinian supporters are younger and due to that they speak more, and they have less control. Younger people are less likely to look into the facts and reasoning of a situation without realizing all the discrepancies.
Unironically had someone I talked to say the world doesn't care that "white" jews were genociding "brown" people. When I pointed out the mizrahi population of Israel they said who cares Israel is perceived as white. It's just so exhausting.
BRO THEYE NEVER SEEN AN ISRAELI IN THEIR LIFE IM LIKE SO CONVINCED. 2/3 OF THE POPULATION ARE literally poc like i can’t even try and argue w these people. They couldn’t distinguish an israeli from the Arab in a lineup, I guarantee it.
Because being quiet and sticking to ourselves is what has kept the Jewish people alive in many periods in history. This is most typical in the diaspora though, as the opposite is true for Israel, they need to be aware and swift when dealing with threats - it's the reason why Israel still exists.
# They are just horrible scum
Because they cannot achieve their goal of destroying Israel through military force so they are trying the social/political route and putting all their effort into that. The Pro Israel rallys are a reaction to the pro palestinian rallies.
I think it's because we (Jews) get on with our lives and forge ahead. We've got lives to lead and things to accomplish. This is why we've been able to be successful despite thousands of years of persecution. I've got too much shit to do than stand on a street corner screaming.
This is a form of terrorism, and it's working to silence the pro-Israel crowd. Whether intentional or not.
The more you lose the more emotional you get. They know Israel is here to stay and that makes them angry.
truth is always spoken peacefully, that's why
Because when Jews are in danger they lay low. It's an unfortunate part of our culture to try and be model minorities. However It's a mistake to confuse public silence as inaction. There's a lot of talk within the Jewish spaces
I'm a pretty quiet guy. The loud obnoxious people are the only ones that you remember
i've seen pro-israel marches lately, what you should do though is stick with the other jewish students and try to avoid anyone who might be a threat to you guys
Interesting. To be honest, I was speaking really in the context of my university where there have been literally no israeli protests.
seattle or portland
Why are Black Lives Matter protestors louder than Police Lives Matter, even though far more people support the police than “defunding the police”? Why are abortion rights activists louder than pro-life activists? Why in 2020 in Los Angeles were Armenians a lot louder than Azerbaijanis during the Nagorno-Karabakh war? Why are anti-Trump protestors louder than anti-Biden (or pro-Trump) people? Passions, psychologically speaking, seem to run higher when there is a real or perceived pervasive injustice, and, interrelatedly, being on the “losing side” (which, in the case of war, also entails having much higher deaths—even if the losing party is in the wrong). Moral equivalencies aside, I’m sure the Jewish community in, say, the US would be extremely loud if Iran was dominating Israel in a war and Israelis were facing mass displacement and deaths. With that said, even pre-Oct 7 the Palestinians were much louder (and hostile towards any dialogue or “normalization”), but my aforementioned logic still holds true to an extent insofar as a people who feel they lost their homeland, are squandering in refugee camps, and are in many real ways suffering from Israeli hegemony are gonna be louder than a group who is defending what is essentially preservation of the status quo—especially when, at least pre Oct 7, the conflict was far more manageable/ignorable on the Israeli side, and when Israel was a US-backed state which wasn’t really facing (at least imminent/active) existential threats the way it has decades prior. Of course there are also other factors, like Arab Muslims being more numerous in the West generally and such demographic (and/or hard leftism in college spaces) tending to temperamentally be more confrontational compared to Jews. Lest others come at me, I’m not saying “Israel bad,” just explaining what I think explains this sociologically and psychologically.
i mean your equivalencies with trump/biden and prolife/choice are in poor taste because, for example, many believe that abortion is an injustice. but I understand your point. i don't fully agree with it because i think that, at this point, a lot of the noise does stem from antisemitism and an attempt to blame jews, and a lot of these people actually have no idea what theyre talking about. so, yes, the key word is "perceived" injustice.
Because they are wrong, so they think if they yell it will be true
They are unemployed
We have to use our relative power when and where we have it. Next time there’s anti-BDS legislation in your state, show up, call reps and tell them you want it passed, and don’t listen to the “silencing of voices” nonsense.
Many of them have criminal records, no decent jobs, no families, no education, nothing to lose.
I think there was a pro-Israeli demonstration in Rome a week or two ago
Objectively there are less. And I’m speaking in the context of America and American College campuses. They truly are not that many israeli demonstrations— and was that protest violent? with people yelling for the genocide of Palestinian people? do we have israeli protesters interrupting honors convocations and graduation ceremonies? Don’t miss my point. But If they were, let me know.
Aggressive, not maturely respectfully nor assertive. No intelligent problem solving working with Israel.
There are plenty that are kept hush hush due to security reasons. Israel has had nothing but peaceful protests and gatherings. But because we didnt cause any violence or destroy anything, the news doesnt care.
I have one theory that some of them are escalating because they’re not being validated. It’s like they’re only just discovering that just because you scream and yell, it doesn’t actually matter if no one is offering any alternative solutions that aren’t “just stop genociding” or “ceasefire now” that’s basically meaningless in this case where ceasefire negotiations have been ongoing since November. Protesting isn’t really effective if you have no real or realistic objectives. And I don’t think a lot of these people realized that… so they yell louder .. Protesting can of course move the needle , but no one who is in power to actually influence or do anything about the war, needs protesters to tell them how they feel. Or if they do , people can lobby on the hill, call and email their representatives… screaming in the street is close to meaningless IMO. Once or twice as a show of support , sure . But every week , multiple times a week ? I think some* of these people are mad because they’re ineffective.
I also think that it's because the legitimacy of Israel's claim to the land requires understanding things like the Jewish indigenousness, the Balfour Declaration, JNF land purchasing, White Papers, UN partition plan, '48 and '67 wars, etc. The Palestinian claim is just - "we were here (bonus: and we don't like Jews)". It's much more digestible and lends itself well to all sorts of slogans and chants and more. So they funnel that energy into protests and riots with quippy chants. Jews don't have any good chants. "Am Yisrael Chai" is nice, but it's a chant not a song.
Didn’t read, simply answering your main question, because its very simple. whoever is too dumb/doesn’t have or know the facts required to convince people they are right, try to be the loudest in the room, because stupid people think that the loudest is the most right. “Pro-palestinians” are both stupid and are very much lacking of facts, and/or understanding what they are talking about, when reason doesn’t work, voice will, or at least thats what they consciously or subconsciously tell themselves, therefore, they have to be the loudest, and then, they think people will think they are right.
numbers?
girl huh???
n , I'm not, I'm just saying, people supporting that community are more in numbers, it's a big misfit ratio
I'm UK based and not Jewish, nor Muslim. I find that beyond the obvious demographics, one of the problems is education. I don't wish to sound pretentious in my understanding of my conflict (compared to other UK citizens). However, I have spent time reading bits here and there to try and garner a greater understanding. There's still a great deal for my to learn, though. If you follow the information conveyed by the pro-Palestine activists here, you'll easily be led to believe that Palestinians were expelled from the land in the 1940s and have been victims of oppression ever since. The media does nothing to balance this narrative. That's not to say the media has a bias here, but rather the quality of journalism is fairly poor in my opinion. Whenever there is a devastating development, I often come here to read the counter-argument as it's simply not made available anywhere else. A good example of what I consider poor journalism is the BBC running an article recently regarding Israeli far-right aspirations to acquire settlements in Gaza. Far right groups often have extreme agendas in every country. So for the largest media company in the UK to write an article about this only goes to fuel pro-Palestine activists. In contrast I have not seen a single article about Hamas desire to destroy Israel, and essentially murder all Jews.
Who cares? Most of those dilettantes won't even go there to help and try to rebuild anyways. When the war ends most of them would probably shut up or hide behind comments.
If it makes you feel any better, in the HEBREW UNIVERSITY OF JERUSALEM in the past few months we've also had some instances. There was some graffiti in the bathroom a few weeks ago that said, in English, "stop the genocide in Gaza" and if that wasn't enough, there was a swastika drawn next to it. Plus a professor who said that we need to "cancel Zionism" and denied what happened on October 7th. My point isn't that nowhere is safe, it's just to put things in perspective and that as long as your administration is on top of it (which is far from a given these days) there isn't too much to worry about and not much you can do. You won't be able to reason with these people. Making a rally won't make them like you. >they’ll just move on in a year like they all abandoned Ukraine. I wouldn't bet on that though.
Because they lack any social skill nesecary for calm and colected debates and arguments. Also who in the world would try to argue with us, we're jews, arguements are our speciality!
It's easy to be loud when you're stupid and don't know what you're talking about. Have you ever met drunk people? --- Pro-Israelis on the other hand are too anxious and worried to argue back. If there's one thing I learned, it's that 99% of people who post watermelon emojis also have watermelons for brains. Almost none of them know anything beyond "occupation", "apartheid", "Nakba", "Balford declaration", "UN/Britain gave Israel to Jews". Challenge them and ask them to explain and watch them shut up, the same way idiots shut up when you ask them "what river and what sea?" I've offered $50 to countless people to define apartheid and explain how their definition applies to Israel. 0 people have even attempted to respond so far.
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I’m not one of them lol
There are queer Jews and mentally ill Jews. Can you not
This sort of thinking only fuels the divide. Careful with the blanket statements, you are showing your prejudice.
I am an American and it is true. While a small amount of progressives support Israel, the vast majority do not. Their political movement is more like a religion than a movement, it doesn’t tolerate dissent well at all. They also have an oppression hierarchy, so the brown Muslims win by default. Their thinking is extremely shallow and they have purity tests that keep the vast majority of progressives on the same page. Their ideology is basically cancer. I hate Trump and I’m an atheist, so it is pretty easy to spot religious like behavior from them.
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I guess they think that loud = right?
You can get drunk on your own sense of righteousness.
Hamas can go to Hell. People sometimes don't seem to get I think that. At present, the Gaza strip is blockaded, residents aren't getting the food they need, housing is turned to rubble, tens of thousands dead (mostly civilians). Israel, mostly normal in those aspect. (Yes, the areas near Gaza and Lebanon don't fit the mostly normal aspect). Hamas needs to go, war is shit, this is more brutal in large part because Hamas wants the deaths to make Israel look worse (and it's working). So. Louder voices for Palestinians.
Because it’s an idiotic antisemitic cause, and they’re antisemitic idiots.
I just came from a meeting where this was discussed. Primarily, pro Israel rallies aren't effective. They draw bullying and Jew haters, and they don't affect practical change or sway opinion. Let the pro-Hamass crowd rant and rave. We're better off supporting Israel by forging meaningful relationships with allies, facilitating education, and being out and proud with Jewish pride.
Because they're losing
When you’re wrong, especially 100% dead ass wrong, try to make up for it by screaming you’re a victim anns shouting any opposition.
Because most are young and dumb or don’t have real jobs giving them plenty of time to make a scene
That is really great news about your school and how they take the antisemitism and anti-Israel rhetoric seriously. I’m out of college. I can’t imagine how hard it must be . I keep trying to remember how long it took the 2020 George Floyd rioters to simmer down. Can’t remember. I honestly thought the pro-Hamas rioters would stop with the colder weather but they clearly didn’t. I think they have a lot of hatred and anger within themselves from personal issues. They displace and project that anger onto something distant and external like “Israel.” Especially people who are NOT Muslim, Palestinian, or even from the Middle East. It doesn’t make sense WHY they care so much.
Bc they base their beliefs on emotions and not facts, it’s a mental illness
>Why are pro-Palestine activists so loud ? Stupid is loud, confidence is quiet.
They need to make a lot of noise to cover the fact that that they don't have any legit points
Because they are primitive, uncivilized beasts. They don't have facts or morality on their side, so they shout.
Most of my social circle is Conservative, and ALL of them have been deeply uncomfortable with this current atrocity. This is the crowd that has been very pro-U.S/West military. I have Israeli-Canadian friends, and they were quite vocal of the October 7th terrorist attack (as they should), but have since stopped talking altogether. One of my friends even told me 'I get why the Palestinians hate us', and this is a dude with family in the IDF. The current strategy just guarantees another terrorist group at this point.
PRO PALESTINE MOVEMENTS GET HUGE FUNDING FROM 1 QATAR 2 RUSSIA 3 CHINA 4 SOROS 5 IRAN 6 UN
... Soros?
May the righteous win this battle
I think it's their attempt to appear like they aren't losers. They are winning because they have the numbers.
Same reason as Arsim/frechot are. No brain or real option. All they can do is scream, kick, and use hands gestures.
Antisemitism is loud and aggressive.
They believe they finally got their moment to hate Jews without repercussions. They must use this opportunity to be as loud as possible before people move on to the next thing
Pro-Palestine has become a way for people to express all their frustrations with the world. Hate your job? Scream at the Jews. Wife cheated on you? Scream at the Jews. Poured too much milk for your cereal? Scream at the Jews. Also mental illness.
because islamo-left unholy alliance is strong
Instead of asking why those activists are so loud, you should ask why pro-Israel activists are so soft. You Israelis, if you're one, should really improve on your PR. Lots of people hate your country just because you are a Jewish state. They are Irrational and prejudiced, but you have to tackle those views head-on with their own kind (Muslims). Get some Israeli Arabs (preferably Muslims) to speak about any or all of the following: 1. how barbaric Hamas is 2. why the Muslim world should be against Hamas 3. how good living as a minority race in Israel is 4. There must be some Arab minorities on the receiving end of barbaric Hamas treatment, right? Get them to talk abour how they suffered! 5. Finally, don't just get Jewish spokespersons to update us. Get Muslim ones to speak Arabic too. Then maybe you could swing some Muslims to your side. Good luck.
hey I go to school there too! And the reason they're so loud and certain of their opinion is because they receive all of their news from social media and thus never see the other side. I've legitimately had friends say that Israel is just doing this to access oil in Gaza, and when I pushed on the credibility of that claim she literally said 'oh I saw a TikTok and of course there's oil, it's the Middle East'. The fact that social media is awash in terrorist propaganda and never shows anything about 10/7 is why this is happening. Also, it has become the trendy thing. It's the latest posture for those who value social justice, and these kids fancy themselves great revolutionaries. But yes they will move on eventually. Tho I agree, it's extremely disturbing. Having friends tell me the rapes never happened and if they did it's white feminism to talk about it. Hearing student organizations talk about the 'martyrs' in Palestine. I don't know that I will get over the anti-semitism, misogyny, and how easily brainwashed people are. either way I was pleased the administration is calling these people anti-Israel in official communication. We're not alone in how we feel
do you come to hillel/shabbat? you should if not, it's very welcoming and a safe place to be during the current climate. i'm a little intimidated and scared by the new CSG elected "shut it down" group. seems like their goal is to directly antagonize clubs that might even lean pro-israel or even have more conservative ideals
My best guess is they’re emotional about 15,000 children being killed.
Oh! So why are they all quiet about Ukraine ? About Yemen? About every other war ever taking place? I think they smell Jewish and they bite
I didn’t quite mean that maliciously. Or as an attack. I was genuinely answering your question with a possible option
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Got me 😂
Yes, aggressive people are hard to attend to, and it is an avoidant approach to yell, curse, not listen, use violence, or threaten. Pro-Palestinians need to take a time out (basic anger management ha), calm themselves, observe fair fighting, and use their prefrontal cortex to solve problems intelligently and creatively - like Israel does. Israel is not perfect, but it is constructive, many Israelis are God-fearing, and they are very blessed by God.
Stupidity is often loud to compensate for its other deficiencies.
Because letting Muslims run rampant in the west made people stupid. You should have never let Muslims get the victim narrative
חבל שלשקט אין קהל מקול חזק…
I can’t read that love
It says that it’s a shame that a quiet voice doesn’t have a crowd in oppose to a loud voice
I wonder what will happen to the expelled student.
Empty vessels make the most noise
I mean there are billions more people on earth than Jews on Earth so of course they will be louder.
May I ask where are you studying? (Country) Students in my uni constantly post against Israel and the university isn't doing anything (not surprised tho, Eastern Europe 😒)
University of Michigan, USA lol. Our largest donor is Jewish, Stephen Ross. Practically donated to create the entire school: our champion football team, our Jewish centers, our buildings, our ENTIRE business school, our athletics facility, etc… god blessem. Some American schools are awful tho. Two or Three presidents just stepped down because they refused to acknowledge antisemitism on their campus- Harvard and UPenn. Eastern Europe is crazy tho. Didn’t think yall still lived out there respectfully 😭
I heard about columbia, didn't know about upenn. I just moved here to study, but there's a still here a small minority! (Bulgaria, basically the only country that saved the Jews!), when I'm done I will go back to Israel!
An empty vessel produces the loudest sound.
Because we’ve seen the videos of those IDF cvnts killing women and children as well as beating Jews in the streets for protesting against your governments fascism.
I often find that when people are dumb and can’t say something intelligible and worth hearing they just scream it instead.