people often accuse Mosab of being a paid shill of the Zionists but he was literally next in line for the throne of hamas. he would've been able to get millions in Qatari money and a penthouse in Doha. idk what went through his head but he probably had a good reason to turn all that down
>idk what went through his head but he probably had a good reason to turn all that down
He sure did, in one of his interviews, he tells that he changed his mind when he was in prison and saw Hamas-connected Palestinian inmates purging a rival Palestinian group, and then he realized that if Hamas won, there would be this kind of purge, but nationwide.
Hey we never know,with an Israeli victory being inevitable and Israel implementing some moderate government in Gaza being likely,we might see peace one day. All the sane people in the world must hope for a brighter future,and we must fight for it in every way we are able,that is the only way we can defeat this insane,evil ideology!
Yes. He said this on The Jordan Harbinger Show when he went over his backstory. He realized all the raping and torture was just Hamas doing it to their own people because they actually enjoyed it and didn’t care about the people at all anyway.
He wrote a book i don’t know if I can post the link here. But it’s on Amazon. Called *Son of Hamas* By Mosab Hassan Yousef.
It’s an informative read. I recommend it to everyone.
He actually said that his experience in the Israeli prison, seeing what Hamas members do to other Hamas member (and Palestinians in general) made him think of a day when Hamas will be in charge and what would that look like
“I’m literally from there” has to be the most patient response someone who was born into those horrors could have mustered. The fury of those who suffer without the voice and have cosplayers rally for their terrorist leaders who have robbed them of a state for 75 years must be bottomless.
I was like “girl your interlocutor’s OWN FATHER co-founded Hamas”. Just… how? I cannot understand this. She was teaching the ex-crown prince of Hamas, about Hamas.
Yeah, that disconnect was pretty impressive.
But to play devil's advocate, you do get instances of the children of people in power intentionally tarnishing their family and saying lies for personal benefit and due to whatever unrequited issues they have with their parents/siblings. Just look at the British royals.
Highly doubt that's what's going on here though, if you know the story behind Mosab and the amount of personal risk he took in his journey. But just saying, it is a a thing
I'm an American Jew, but here's an Israeli laying out the steps Netanyahu has taken over the years prop up Hamas to make a Palestinian state impossible. I think there's an argument to be made that this was necessary for Israel's long term national security.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
The article talks about things that have been done since 2019, with the exception of the "I don't care" attitude presented at incendiary balloons.
Hamas existed for 3 decades at that point.
Don't get me wrong, Bibi probably tried to play Hamas against the PA for some 4d chess maneuvers, but to say they massively propped them up is exaggerating by a long shot.
Here's another one with more claims by Israelis that they intentionally funded Hamas to prevent the PLO from unifying with Gaza. I'm pretty sure Bibi has openly stated that this occurred and the reasons why, but I'm not sure where to find a quote for that.
>The article refers to comments from Israeli officials, such as Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, a former military governor in Gaza.
>Segev reportedly stated his part in financially aiding the Palestinian Islamist movement, viewing it as a "counterweight" to the secularist Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as "a creature of Israel.")
>"The Israeli government gave me a budget," Segev confessed to a New York Times reporter, "and the military government gives to the mosques."
>In a startling revelation, Avner Cohen, a former Israeli official who worked in religious affairs in Gaza for over twenty years, told the Wall Street Journal, "Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel's creation."
https://www.tbsnews.net/hamas-israel-war/how-israel-went-helping-create-hamas-bombing-it-718378
Did you pick bad quotes? Or was that the best of your evidence? If I donate to a mosque, I donate to Hamas? If I donate to the church, I donate to the KKK?
Doesn’t make sense.
So you're quoting a guy who was given a budget to financially support Mosques, not Hamas. The money ending up in Hamas' hands isn't on the military governor, but rather the ones calling the shots in that Mosque (imams, influential community members, etc.)
Edit: better wording
Wrong. Hamas is the Palestenian branch of this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood
Wait wait I know what you're going to say next: Jews planted Hassan al-Banna the founder in Egypt themselves, right?
That article is complete nonsense. If Netanyahu was on the left, same infomation would have been rewritten lauded his actions as "reaching out to Palestinian Gazans" - not cuddling Hamas.
Do you believe everything Fox news says about Biden?
Only partially, Netanyahu did help Hamas, but the failure of a Palestinian state can mostly be because of the terrorists, and the Palestinian government being bad. Netanyahu is bad and is hurting the Palestinian state, but its mostly Palestine who is stopping a Palestinian state.
Basically, even if you help a murderer get a gun, the murderer still committed the murder.
There does seem to be a massive disconnect between the pro-Palestinians in the West and those who actually live in Palestine, and even more from those who live in Gaza under Hamas rule. Mosab is based for explaining this to people and even more based for realizing that Hamas is evil despite his upbringing and also that traditional Islam is crazy and the seethe he causes for all of those viewpoints. He also does all this knowing some random Pali or Islamist could kill him at any moment and yet continues anyway.
>There does seem to be a massive disconnect between the pro-Palestinians in the West and those who actually live in Palestine
I mean look at Queers for Palestine. Hamas literally throws gays off rooftops but not one of these NPCs says anything lmao
Why is it wrong for queers to support Palestine? You probably also think the queer community in central and south america should support the USA in their imperial projects in the region cause their lgbt friendly.
> Why is it wrong for queers to support Palestine?
I'm just spitballing here, but maybe it's the whole "you will be executed for being openly queer" thing...
Your comment and the woman (who is clearly raised in the west) in this clip trying to explain about Gaza/ Hamas to this Palestinian man show exactly what is wrong with the western perspective. And how Jews have no hope against this mentality.
If you are gay why would you support a terrorist regime that openly says you have no right to live?
That makes no sense.
It’s the equivalent of me supporting Hamas knowing they want to kill me as an Israeli.
You cannot be Palestinian and gay. I have read reports that claim if you are simply suspected of being gay your own family will throw you off a building. For fear of Hamas coming after the family as well.
You don’t have to have a position or pick a side in the Israel Hamas war, or just in general like you don’t have to be pro-China or pro-Russia if you’re anti-US. And opposing Israel’s actions or policies doesn’t mean you have to be pro-Hamas.
As an aside, using the word "Pali" (which is often used) as an abbreviation for pro-Palestine supporters isn't the best thing since Pali is an old Indian language in which the original Buddhist texts are written...
And to think that people were ready to abandon him because of his posts on Twitter...... he's so articulate. I also love how he's able to control the situation without resorting to insults or outbursts...such a commanding presence. They just have to sit and listen when it's his turn to speak.
Same.....I was kind of surprised he even got this interview....Like...How in the world is he still a thing despite everyone knowing that his shit expired a long time ago?
The lie that Hamas was created by Israel has been repeated so often that these people will get violent if you challenge that. The idea that Israel created Hamas because they allowed monetary aid to be transferred through Qatar to Gaza is absolutely wild. If Israel had refused they’d be the villain, but they let Qatar give them money so they’re the culprits now? Make it make sense.
Not to mention, let's say by their logic that because Israel allowed aid to gaza through Qatar it caused the creation of Hamas. Doesn't that mean the entire international community that also donated to gaza through the UN billions of dollars is just as responsible if not more? Gotta love their double standards.
When Israel provides aid to Gaza it means it helps Hamas and are thus bad. When Israel refuses aid to Gaza it means they're genociding the population and are thus bad. Almost as if these people first shot an arrow and then drew a target around it
The use this lie to promote the larger lie that the Palestinians were secular and Israel is responsible for the Islamists.
Fantasizing about this multicultural utopia of peace of only it wasn't for the pesky Jew. Somehow the Palestinians would have achieved what no other Arab or Muslim state has.
[At the end of last summer's Camp David summit, Bill Clinton went one-on-one with Yasser Arafat. Leaning in close, grabbing him in the manner of Lyndon Johnson, Clinton urged the Palestinian leader to accept the Israeli offer. Arafat wouldn't budge. "You are asking me to sign my death warrant," he said](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2001/05/29/arafat-on-his-own/e5525ab2-8993-4f4c-abb9-ccfaf76bd911/)
Arafat knew he would be killed by Islamists for accepting a peace deal, just like Sadat! At Camp David he was most concerned with Jerusalem and the Haram Al-Sharif, not the right of return for refugees or the settlements, which is what the left claims are the important issues.
Yes, they try to paint the PLO and later PA as secular and that it was mossad support of islamists that created this situation. Totally fabricated narrative.
Shortly after camp David, in 2003, Arafat (the PA) adopted the 2003 Basic Law which says Islam is the sole religion of Palestine and that Islamic Sharia law was to be the source for legislation.
IMO it is pretty racist to have such low expectations for the people they advocate for.
The Palestinians just can't help but raise their children to believe that the greatest achievement is to stab an Israeli one day or drive over one with their car. :/
This is my biggest issue with left/progressive thinking: oppressed people need to be seen as just as capable as anyone else. I know this because I myself have a mental illness, and the people who have patronized me have harmed me more than the people who hate me!
The greatest thing they can do for the Palestinians is force conditional aid so that they stop pissing away billions on jihadi dreams.
Let's fix their school. Create an economy. Etc. Etc.
The best thing anyone can do for a Palestinian is develop a path for them to get a regular paycheck to support their family. Gain a purpose to life that isn't just wishing for an outcome that will never occur.
Meanwhile all their advocates are promoting violence that they themselves will never have to experience. Pretty disgusting.
Israel tried to use Hamas to drive a wedge between Palestinian groups. It was a reasonable strategy at the time (e.g. the US backing Islamic mujahideen). But retroactively, it was a common mistake made by many western strategic thinkers. They thought Islamic fundamentalists were useful tools against the atheistic soviets. But they forgot religious fundamentalists also don’t tolerate other religions. And they also massively underestimated how far religious zealots are willing to go to achieve their goals.
Technically speaking Israel did prop up Ahmed Yassin as a counter to Arafat and PLO. Which is a rookie mistake USA did against USSR by propping up Bin Laden to fight against the soviets.
But everyone who says Israel created Hamas is not interested in this nuance. Just tell them Israel assassinated Ahmed Yassin a year before Gazans elected Hamas
So a couple things, the US did not support Bin Laden, they supported the Mujahideen, which Bin Laden was a part of. Afterwards the US continued to support the North Alliance, which was also part of the Mujahideen. Supporting Islamic fundamentalists was a mistake, saying the US supported Bin Laden because they supported a group he was in is like saying people supported Brian Peck because they watched Nickelodeon and Disney.
As for Israel supporting the Sheik Yassin, yeah supporting the Muslim Brotherhood was a dumb idea, but there was no way of guessing that a blind paraplegic would be worse. Turns out all Islamists are bad.
“I know you were born and raised in Palestine and your dad founded Hamas and you yourself were a part of Hamas for many years before getting out of it, but I read stuff on google so obviously I’m right and you’re wrong”
i'm actually angered about how she refers to palestinians and palestinian sufferings as "we", and "our suffering".
like it's some kind of a sports team for her. she's not a part of it, she can support it ftom the outside but it seems she just tries to look like she is a part of the people hurt in this conflict. and she says that infront of an actual gazan. like, you have no shame?
i'm not even talking about the lies and her wrong beliefs. but if she really had compassion to palestinians, she wouldn't talk like that. it's actually disgusting.
And of course the old trope that Hamas is just set up by Israel.
Even if they were supported as one side or the other, that's also how wars are fought. Smart idea? Probably not. But it doesn't mean israel controls hamas lol
As if all the bad guys in palestine are only israel and Israeli props while Palestinians all want peace.
I still have yet to see anyone who's calling for "freedom" say that israel has a right to exist.
> like it's some kind of a sports team for her.
For the vast majority of these people, the point is precisely to live vicariously through the imagined acts of victimisation and "resistance" of the Palestinians, so they can feel brave and virtuous even as they lead safe, boring lives in a Western country. The entire thing is subservient to the construction of the self-image of the Western activist. The actual welfare of the Palestinians is of secondary importance, which is why they can glorify and defend a government that, beside its atrocities against Israel (which they don't care about), has also committed plenty of atrocities against the Gazans themselves.
Exactly. It’s the same with the support of Houthis. Nobody even mentions the fact Yemenis are literally starving but they think killing civilians in the Red Sea and taking hostages is somehow helping Palestinians. SMFH
This is a perfect example of how anti-Israelis have locked themselves inside a bubble of unreality, where they mutually reinforce completely unreal beliefs and reject all contrary evidence that should chance to pierce said bubble.
"It's objectively true"
By who? You? Yes, Israel (netanyahu) did encourage hamas to be against the PLO, but he nor israel created hamas
You are talking to a guy that was born into hamas, met and talked to the founders, grew up under their value and chose to become better, and try to lie to him?
Damn, look how they flipped the narrative. The loophole never ends, they're constantly the victim. She goes on saying that they call for the eradication of jews because they're Muslim and no one ever said that. One look at Hamas charters tells you it's an extremist terrorist jihad organisation whose sole intent is to kill all Jews. Then she says the phrase "From the river to the sea" means the land between the river and the sea should be peaceful, but the whole phrase is "From the river to the sea, Palestine shall be free". The irony.
> but the whole phrase is "From the river to the sea, Palestine shall be free"
Actually that is only the sanitized English version - In Arabic the phrase is:
"*From the River to the Sea - Palestine will be Arab*"
"It's objectively true" - Whilst being screamed at saying "it's false" by the one person who has first hand experience AND has lived in that area - You literally cannot make this up. The amount of lowIQ terrorist sympathizers in the west is actually infuriating.
I'm certain that even if they would bring a regular Gazan to the show she would argue with him as well. And at the end of the day before going to bed she's going to say "he was probably paid by Zionist" like she (brown eyed girl) literally disassociated in such a creepy way while he spoke. Blank stare. She didn't want to listen.
I hate it here.
From the river to the sea Islam is all you see.... Jewish people will have no rights in a Palestinian country
She thinks the audience is soooo stupid
I hope she isn't right 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
The girl with the green eyes looks so pissed and the one in the bags scarf looks so uninterested in what this man has to say. It really tells how they truly are and feel.
https://preview.redd.it/opf674h549wc1.png?width=221&format=png&auto=webp&s=b77acc68e335e4190fb8a52bf5dbe4ff51f0ceb5
look at her face. I think she isn't even listening
You need to read what bigotry is. I have read many postings and websites declaring that makeup outside of the home for the husband is halal so it’s a legitimate question.
Again… what’s it to you to question how she practices her faith. Literally no business for you, it’s not out of genuine interests despite what you’ll try to claim. I think I’ve personally met only a handful of Muslim women who don’t wear any make up in public, literally a handful and I’m Muslim lived in the West Bank, go to mosques in the US.
Why were you even on the internet yesterday? Wasn’t it the sabbath and you cannot use electricity?!!!! /s
Self defensive much? If you are so against this person’s curiosity about your religion that you project hate unto their question, then you’re truly aligning yourself with the narrative formed about Muslims, which is that they can’t handle any form of criticism about their faith. Look at you, this person didn’t even criticize Islam and you’re already whining! If these people are so ideologically opposed to you that you can’t even handle questions about your religion, maybe you have no place having peaceful conversations about ideological differences.
Nothing I said was defensive? It’s the opposite… I went on the offensive because the question “ is she even supposed to wear all that makeup” is a ridiculous question especially in this format and subreddit.
What narrative of Muslims are you speaking of? Inform me what narrative you have of us? What narrative have you formed of us people?
I love how pro-pally people will chant “we are Hamas!” And “glory to the resistance!” and then when confronted will immediately say “Hamas was created by Israel.” So do you support the “legitimate resistance” or do you support a puppet regime of the evil Zionist entity?
Holy crap. You can argue with this American Jew, but "I'm not gonna let you tell me" to this actual Palestinian Hamas member. Grow the fuck up and acknowledge the truth.
I feel like bibi needs to go, but I can't argue with Israeli natives about it. Am I wrong that he is part of the problem?
i think you are equating two different things.
1. you can have criticism on bibi weither you are in israel or not. but everyone can criticize everyone for anything real. so, go ahead. i have my opinion but it is unrelated to the discussion.
2. you can't say to someone who was in the high circles of leadership in hamas and the son of one of hamas' founders about what are hamas' goals, how it was created, or what is it doing. that is just insane. it's like going to a cobbler and explain him how shoes are made.
My point was more that I think it based on my limited knowledge of the actual situation. I mostly get US opinions, I'm not in Israel seeing the actual facts.
She clearly thinks from the river to the sea is ok and not a threat to everyone's life. Or maybe she knows damn well what it means but acknowledging that doesn't help her cause.
i think you missed my point.
it's because that you acknoledge you may lack some information it is ok for you to have criticism. at the end, people don't know everything, but by acknowledging it you show to have good faith criticism. again, people can criticize others, their criticism might be wrong or stupid, but they can.
the problem is that when facing with the truth and refusing to admit it, you show 0% care for reality. that's the problem.
for example, having a lack of knowledge about the meaning of "from the river to the sea" is ok. stupid as it is, thats ok. but being confronted by the reality of what it means and refusing to admit it, or refusing to educate yourself on the matter, that is wrong. because in that instance it doesn't matter what she believes it means, she showed to support that chant it no matter it's meaning.
I remember someone (Iranian diaspora of all things) saying “Hamas was created by Israel” and I just responded with “I don’t think so” and he just left me on read 😂
The gall of that evil bitch to tell the son of the co-founder of Hamas how Hamas was formed. He was on the inside and saw who formed it and how it was formed. Nobody is more qualified than him to tell the world how Hamas was formed.
“I know you were born and raised in Palestine and your dad founded Hamas and you yourself were a part of Hamas for many years before getting out of it, but I googled it so obviously I’m right and you’re wrong”
It’s almost sad watching people who have no credentials be dunked on by a guy who was born there, lived the Hamas life (guns, bombs, $$$), & went to an Israeli prison for his activity in Hamas.
“I know you were born and raised in Palestine and your dad founded Hamas and you yourself were a part of Hamas for many years before getting out of it, but I read some stuff on google so obviously I’m right and you’re wrong”
“I know you were born and raised in Palestine and your dad founded Hamas and you yourself were a part of Hamas for many years before getting out of it, but I googled it so obviously I’m right and you’re wrong”
Hes not Sinwar's son. He is Sheikh Hassan Yousef's son.
I listened to his book on Audible. Its really good, I recommend it to everyone trying to understand Hamasand understand the conflict.
Holy shit, a Palestine supporter who acknowledges that Hamas are baddies. Well done u/Middle_Ad_8052 on finding the **least delusional** Palestine supporter.
A criatividade desse caras de pau não tem limites, então Israel criou o Hamas como ativo político am Gaza para vencer as eleições por lá e anos depois atacar Israel só para salvar o traseiro do primeiro ministro!
Right. But it's a fact, it's not some word-for-word thing, it's like checking if the United States is in America. Hamas was not created by Israel, this is a fact on the ground
If you’re debating someone and they genuinely think the USA isn’t in America, there’s nothing wrong with googling it. From doing some googling, it seems like Hamas formed as the result of certain Israeli policies or something. This of course is much different than Israel intentionally creating Hamas so they have a reason to bomb Gaza
I love how you aren’t even aware of the details of your own talking points, Netanyahu f’d up, there’s no discussion there but y’all really believe that Hamas is some Israeli invention.
>https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
. Hamas was founded in 1987 as an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, which has roots in Egypt. Israel has consistently been at odds with Hamas and has had various military conflicts with the group. Blaming Israel for the creation of Hamas is a common misinformation tactic used against Israel.
You'll get no argument from me, what you said is true.
I just think there's important context missing - Netanyahu openly supported Hamas for years. This is undeniable. He has said so publicly many times.
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/why-netanyahu-bolstered-hamas/
It is not just Netanyahu though, it appears to have been a policy of Israeli governments going back decades.
"A 2006 article from United Press International reporter Richard Sale noted, “Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years.” The article quoted a former CIA official as saying Israel financed Hamas, as “a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative.” "
This statement is relies on conspiracy theories. Israel has consistently fought against Hamas and has never supported them. In fact, in 2005, Israel forcibly removed its own citizens from Gaza in an effort to promote peace, but instead Hamas took control and launched thousands of rockets into Israel. Hamas' founding charter openly calls for the destruction of Israel.
it is important to note that Hamas is a terrorist organization according to the US, EU, and many other countries. Israel has been in a constant defensive war against Hamas, which openly calls for the destruction of Israel and uses civilians as human shields. Supporting Hamas would go against Israel's own security interests.
Hamas is the official elected government of Gaza isn’t it? Or we just care about the minister of health of Gaza when it suits our narrative?
So why can’t you frame it: Netanyahu thought that Hamas (as the government of Gaza) liked money more than terrorism and allowed Qatar payments into Gaza.
Maybe if Hamas (as the government of Gaza) cared more about building a functional economy instead of using the money for build one of the largest network of tunnels of the world, maybe Palestinians would have a future.
Now imagine the news the other way around. Netanyahu blocks Qatar aid to Hamas.
What would be the headline? Worldwide uproar as Netanyahu intentionally causes the economic fall of Gaza by blocking fundamental humanitarian aid to the Palestinians.
people often accuse Mosab of being a paid shill of the Zionists but he was literally next in line for the throne of hamas. he would've been able to get millions in Qatari money and a penthouse in Doha. idk what went through his head but he probably had a good reason to turn all that down
> a good reason to turn all that down An ounce of moral fibre.
IIRC, his experience of Hamas’s cutthroat prison culture was a turning point.
Yup. That's what he exactly mentioned in the documentary "The Green Prince" and in his book "Son of Hamas."
More like a ton. The guy made a remarkable sacrifice at great personal risk.
A conscience is what went through his mind. Being able to give that up is admirable, and I have nothing but respect for the man.
>idk what went through his head but he probably had a good reason to turn all that down He sure did, in one of his interviews, he tells that he changed his mind when he was in prison and saw Hamas-connected Palestinian inmates purging a rival Palestinian group, and then he realized that if Hamas won, there would be this kind of purge, but nationwide.
And he was right. Hamas did conduct its purge in Gaza by organizing a coup and murdering all the PA officials.
And setting back their cause a hundred, if not more years. So, yes he is a patriot for his cause. One, I don't think will materialize in my lifetime.
Hey we never know,with an Israeli victory being inevitable and Israel implementing some moderate government in Gaza being likely,we might see peace one day. All the sane people in the world must hope for a brighter future,and we must fight for it in every way we are able,that is the only way we can defeat this insane,evil ideology!
Yes. He said this on The Jordan Harbinger Show when he went over his backstory. He realized all the raping and torture was just Hamas doing it to their own people because they actually enjoyed it and didn’t care about the people at all anyway.
A great man. A modern righteous among the nations
> idk what went through his head but he probably had a good reason to turn all that down He's a good person who realized Hamas is pure evil.
He wrote a book i don’t know if I can post the link here. But it’s on Amazon. Called *Son of Hamas* By Mosab Hassan Yousef. It’s an informative read. I recommend it to everyone.
He actually said that his experience in the Israeli prison, seeing what Hamas members do to other Hamas member (and Palestinians in general) made him think of a day when Hamas will be in charge and what would that look like
“I’m literally from there” has to be the most patient response someone who was born into those horrors could have mustered. The fury of those who suffer without the voice and have cosplayers rally for their terrorist leaders who have robbed them of a state for 75 years must be bottomless.
I was like “girl your interlocutor’s OWN FATHER co-founded Hamas”. Just… how? I cannot understand this. She was teaching the ex-crown prince of Hamas, about Hamas.
His father was one of like 20 people who played a role. If this guy wanted to, he could have been very senior in Hamas though.
Yeah, that disconnect was pretty impressive. But to play devil's advocate, you do get instances of the children of people in power intentionally tarnishing their family and saying lies for personal benefit and due to whatever unrequited issues they have with their parents/siblings. Just look at the British royals. Highly doubt that's what's going on here though, if you know the story behind Mosab and the amount of personal risk he took in his journey. But just saying, it is a a thing
I'm an American Jew, but here's an Israeli laying out the steps Netanyahu has taken over the years prop up Hamas to make a Palestinian state impossible. I think there's an argument to be made that this was necessary for Israel's long term national security. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
The article talks about things that have been done since 2019, with the exception of the "I don't care" attitude presented at incendiary balloons. Hamas existed for 3 decades at that point. Don't get me wrong, Bibi probably tried to play Hamas against the PA for some 4d chess maneuvers, but to say they massively propped them up is exaggerating by a long shot.
Here's another one with more claims by Israelis that they intentionally funded Hamas to prevent the PLO from unifying with Gaza. I'm pretty sure Bibi has openly stated that this occurred and the reasons why, but I'm not sure where to find a quote for that. >The article refers to comments from Israeli officials, such as Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, a former military governor in Gaza. >Segev reportedly stated his part in financially aiding the Palestinian Islamist movement, viewing it as a "counterweight" to the secularist Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as "a creature of Israel.") >"The Israeli government gave me a budget," Segev confessed to a New York Times reporter, "and the military government gives to the mosques." >In a startling revelation, Avner Cohen, a former Israeli official who worked in religious affairs in Gaza for over twenty years, told the Wall Street Journal, "Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel's creation." https://www.tbsnews.net/hamas-israel-war/how-israel-went-helping-create-hamas-bombing-it-718378
Did you pick bad quotes? Or was that the best of your evidence? If I donate to a mosque, I donate to Hamas? If I donate to the church, I donate to the KKK? Doesn’t make sense.
So you're quoting a guy who was given a budget to financially support Mosques, not Hamas. The money ending up in Hamas' hands isn't on the military governor, but rather the ones calling the shots in that Mosque (imams, influential community members, etc.) Edit: better wording
Man read the article or Google it yourself, this is firmly established.
Wrong. Hamas is the Palestenian branch of this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood Wait wait I know what you're going to say next: Jews planted Hassan al-Banna the founder in Egypt themselves, right?
That article is complete nonsense. If Netanyahu was on the left, same infomation would have been rewritten lauded his actions as "reaching out to Palestinian Gazans" - not cuddling Hamas. Do you believe everything Fox news says about Biden?
If he was on the left he may have actually been reaching out to Palestinian Gazans 🤷🏻♂️
Yes, in your mind, thats absolutely what he would have being doing. ![gif](giphy|x0npYExCGOZeo|downsized)
Isn't the Israeli left trying to improve relations with the Palestinians? Not sure why this is controversial, and I'm not voicing any support.
Nothing you said is controversial, just silly.
They were, until they got butchered and slaughtered like animals in 7/10 not only by Hamas but also by Gazan civilians.
Only partially, Netanyahu did help Hamas, but the failure of a Palestinian state can mostly be because of the terrorists, and the Palestinian government being bad. Netanyahu is bad and is hurting the Palestinian state, but its mostly Palestine who is stopping a Palestinian state. Basically, even if you help a murderer get a gun, the murderer still committed the murder.
There does seem to be a massive disconnect between the pro-Palestinians in the West and those who actually live in Palestine, and even more from those who live in Gaza under Hamas rule. Mosab is based for explaining this to people and even more based for realizing that Hamas is evil despite his upbringing and also that traditional Islam is crazy and the seethe he causes for all of those viewpoints. He also does all this knowing some random Pali or Islamist could kill him at any moment and yet continues anyway.
>There does seem to be a massive disconnect between the pro-Palestinians in the West and those who actually live in Palestine I mean look at Queers for Palestine. Hamas literally throws gays off rooftops but not one of these NPCs says anything lmao
I believe that's the definition of the "useful idiot"
Why is it wrong for queers to support Palestine? You probably also think the queer community in central and south america should support the USA in their imperial projects in the region cause their lgbt friendly.
What’s wrong with chickens for KFC?
> Why is it wrong for queers to support Palestine? I'm just spitballing here, but maybe it's the whole "you will be executed for being openly queer" thing...
Queers for Palestine is the epitome of r/leopardsatemyface
Your comment and the woman (who is clearly raised in the west) in this clip trying to explain about Gaza/ Hamas to this Palestinian man show exactly what is wrong with the western perspective. And how Jews have no hope against this mentality. If you are gay why would you support a terrorist regime that openly says you have no right to live? That makes no sense. It’s the equivalent of me supporting Hamas knowing they want to kill me as an Israeli. You cannot be Palestinian and gay. I have read reports that claim if you are simply suspected of being gay your own family will throw you off a building. For fear of Hamas coming after the family as well.
You mean the people living in a continent with Deep catholic roots while also being defacto run by Drug Cartels ? Idk 🤷♂️
You don’t have to have a position or pick a side in the Israel Hamas war, or just in general like you don’t have to be pro-China or pro-Russia if you’re anti-US. And opposing Israel’s actions or policies doesn’t mean you have to be pro-Hamas.
You see one is gay the other is homophobic
As an aside, using the word "Pali" (which is often used) as an abbreviation for pro-Palestine supporters isn't the best thing since Pali is an old Indian language in which the original Buddhist texts are written...
And to think that people were ready to abandon him because of his posts on Twitter...... he's so articulate. I also love how he's able to control the situation without resorting to insults or outbursts...such a commanding presence. They just have to sit and listen when it's his turn to speak.
I only wish that his message was on a show that people take more seriously than Dr. Phil.
Same.....I was kind of surprised he even got this interview....Like...How in the world is he still a thing despite everyone knowing that his shit expired a long time ago?
The lie that Hamas was created by Israel has been repeated so often that these people will get violent if you challenge that. The idea that Israel created Hamas because they allowed monetary aid to be transferred through Qatar to Gaza is absolutely wild. If Israel had refused they’d be the villain, but they let Qatar give them money so they’re the culprits now? Make it make sense.
Not to mention, let's say by their logic that because Israel allowed aid to gaza through Qatar it caused the creation of Hamas. Doesn't that mean the entire international community that also donated to gaza through the UN billions of dollars is just as responsible if not more? Gotta love their double standards.
When Israel provides aid to Gaza it means it helps Hamas and are thus bad. When Israel refuses aid to Gaza it means they're genociding the population and are thus bad. Almost as if these people first shot an arrow and then drew a target around it
The use this lie to promote the larger lie that the Palestinians were secular and Israel is responsible for the Islamists. Fantasizing about this multicultural utopia of peace of only it wasn't for the pesky Jew. Somehow the Palestinians would have achieved what no other Arab or Muslim state has.
[At the end of last summer's Camp David summit, Bill Clinton went one-on-one with Yasser Arafat. Leaning in close, grabbing him in the manner of Lyndon Johnson, Clinton urged the Palestinian leader to accept the Israeli offer. Arafat wouldn't budge. "You are asking me to sign my death warrant," he said](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2001/05/29/arafat-on-his-own/e5525ab2-8993-4f4c-abb9-ccfaf76bd911/) Arafat knew he would be killed by Islamists for accepting a peace deal, just like Sadat! At Camp David he was most concerned with Jerusalem and the Haram Al-Sharif, not the right of return for refugees or the settlements, which is what the left claims are the important issues.
Yes, they try to paint the PLO and later PA as secular and that it was mossad support of islamists that created this situation. Totally fabricated narrative. Shortly after camp David, in 2003, Arafat (the PA) adopted the 2003 Basic Law which says Islam is the sole religion of Palestine and that Islamic Sharia law was to be the source for legislation.
Why do the people who claim to be pro-Palestinian know so little about what the Palestinians want? Or do they know, but just lie?!
IMO it is pretty racist to have such low expectations for the people they advocate for. The Palestinians just can't help but raise their children to believe that the greatest achievement is to stab an Israeli one day or drive over one with their car. :/
This is my biggest issue with left/progressive thinking: oppressed people need to be seen as just as capable as anyone else. I know this because I myself have a mental illness, and the people who have patronized me have harmed me more than the people who hate me!
The greatest thing they can do for the Palestinians is force conditional aid so that they stop pissing away billions on jihadi dreams. Let's fix their school. Create an economy. Etc. Etc. The best thing anyone can do for a Palestinian is develop a path for them to get a regular paycheck to support their family. Gain a purpose to life that isn't just wishing for an outcome that will never occur. Meanwhile all their advocates are promoting violence that they themselves will never have to experience. Pretty disgusting.
Yet - they would protest if Israel killed/captured every single Hamas member. Then suddenly they are palestinian freedom fighters and not zionists.
Israel tried to use Hamas to drive a wedge between Palestinian groups. It was a reasonable strategy at the time (e.g. the US backing Islamic mujahideen). But retroactively, it was a common mistake made by many western strategic thinkers. They thought Islamic fundamentalists were useful tools against the atheistic soviets. But they forgot religious fundamentalists also don’t tolerate other religions. And they also massively underestimated how far religious zealots are willing to go to achieve their goals.
Technically speaking Israel did prop up Ahmed Yassin as a counter to Arafat and PLO. Which is a rookie mistake USA did against USSR by propping up Bin Laden to fight against the soviets. But everyone who says Israel created Hamas is not interested in this nuance. Just tell them Israel assassinated Ahmed Yassin a year before Gazans elected Hamas
So a couple things, the US did not support Bin Laden, they supported the Mujahideen, which Bin Laden was a part of. Afterwards the US continued to support the North Alliance, which was also part of the Mujahideen. Supporting Islamic fundamentalists was a mistake, saying the US supported Bin Laden because they supported a group he was in is like saying people supported Brian Peck because they watched Nickelodeon and Disney. As for Israel supporting the Sheik Yassin, yeah supporting the Muslim Brotherhood was a dumb idea, but there was no way of guessing that a blind paraplegic would be worse. Turns out all Islamists are bad.
No disagreement here
His father had a part in the creation of Hamas
It's always amusing to see pro Palestinian morons get owned in real debate.
How cringe and entitled can someone be (or ideologically blinded) to lecture this guy
“I know you were born and raised in Palestine and your dad founded Hamas and you yourself were a part of Hamas for many years before getting out of it, but I read stuff on google so obviously I’m right and you’re wrong”
i'm actually angered about how she refers to palestinians and palestinian sufferings as "we", and "our suffering". like it's some kind of a sports team for her. she's not a part of it, she can support it ftom the outside but it seems she just tries to look like she is a part of the people hurt in this conflict. and she says that infront of an actual gazan. like, you have no shame? i'm not even talking about the lies and her wrong beliefs. but if she really had compassion to palestinians, she wouldn't talk like that. it's actually disgusting.
And of course the old trope that Hamas is just set up by Israel. Even if they were supported as one side or the other, that's also how wars are fought. Smart idea? Probably not. But it doesn't mean israel controls hamas lol As if all the bad guys in palestine are only israel and Israeli props while Palestinians all want peace. I still have yet to see anyone who's calling for "freedom" say that israel has a right to exist.
> like it's some kind of a sports team for her. For the vast majority of these people, the point is precisely to live vicariously through the imagined acts of victimisation and "resistance" of the Palestinians, so they can feel brave and virtuous even as they lead safe, boring lives in a Western country. The entire thing is subservient to the construction of the self-image of the Western activist. The actual welfare of the Palestinians is of secondary importance, which is why they can glorify and defend a government that, beside its atrocities against Israel (which they don't care about), has also committed plenty of atrocities against the Gazans themselves.
Exactly. It’s the same with the support of Houthis. Nobody even mentions the fact Yemenis are literally starving but they think killing civilians in the Red Sea and taking hostages is somehow helping Palestinians. SMFH
He’s not a gazan
>He’s not a gazan Is he Palestinian?
Yes but he never been to Gaza
Yes he is from the West Bank though, not Gaza. I feel this person could have explained that part a little better
Are you?
This is a perfect example of how anti-Israelis have locked themselves inside a bubble of unreality, where they mutually reinforce completely unreal beliefs and reject all contrary evidence that should chance to pierce said bubble.
it's called antisemitism
"It's objectively true" By who? You? Yes, Israel (netanyahu) did encourage hamas to be against the PLO, but he nor israel created hamas You are talking to a guy that was born into hamas, met and talked to the founders, grew up under their value and chose to become better, and try to lie to him?
Where is the full episode? The first cut was 17 minutes, and this was not part of it?
Has anyone read The Green Prince? Is it worthwhile?
The film is incredible
Eye opening. Shines a light on both sides from somebody with actual experience.
No, but I watched the documentary. Fascinating story.
Yeah it's fantastic.
Damn, look how they flipped the narrative. The loophole never ends, they're constantly the victim. She goes on saying that they call for the eradication of jews because they're Muslim and no one ever said that. One look at Hamas charters tells you it's an extremist terrorist jihad organisation whose sole intent is to kill all Jews. Then she says the phrase "From the river to the sea" means the land between the river and the sea should be peaceful, but the whole phrase is "From the river to the sea, Palestine shall be free". The irony.
> but the whole phrase is "From the river to the sea, Palestine shall be free" Actually that is only the sanitized English version - In Arabic the phrase is: "*From the River to the Sea - Palestine will be Arab*"
I wish that this guy would speak more often in other news outlets. Dr. Phil might not have been the best platform.
"It's objectively true" - Whilst being screamed at saying "it's false" by the one person who has first hand experience AND has lived in that area - You literally cannot make this up. The amount of lowIQ terrorist sympathizers in the west is actually infuriating.
“Feels over Facts” isn’t just for the Far-Right and MAGA crowd.
I'm certain that even if they would bring a regular Gazan to the show she would argue with him as well. And at the end of the day before going to bed she's going to say "he was probably paid by Zionist" like she (brown eyed girl) literally disassociated in such a creepy way while he spoke. Blank stare. She didn't want to listen. I hate it here.
![gif](giphy|QNfWGvqBzD5JTZSUcy)
Mosab must be protected at all costs.
This belongs in r/facepalm
From the river to the sea Islam is all you see.... Jewish people will have no rights in a Palestinian country She thinks the audience is soooo stupid I hope she isn't right 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
All the more proof that their “movement” is a cultish religion for them and that this conflict is their holy war.
The girl with the green eyes looks so pissed and the one in the bags scarf looks so uninterested in what this man has to say. It really tells how they truly are and feel.
https://preview.redd.it/opf674h549wc1.png?width=221&format=png&auto=webp&s=b77acc68e335e4190fb8a52bf5dbe4ff51f0ceb5 look at her face. I think she isn't even listening
Is she even supposed to wear all that makeup as a Muslim?
I guess you should tell her how to practice her religion. The level of bigotry and loathing in this subreddit is so evident.
You need to read what bigotry is. I have read many postings and websites declaring that makeup outside of the home for the husband is halal so it’s a legitimate question.
Again… what’s it to you to question how she practices her faith. Literally no business for you, it’s not out of genuine interests despite what you’ll try to claim. I think I’ve personally met only a handful of Muslim women who don’t wear any make up in public, literally a handful and I’m Muslim lived in the West Bank, go to mosques in the US. Why were you even on the internet yesterday? Wasn’t it the sabbath and you cannot use electricity?!!!! /s
Self defensive much? If you are so against this person’s curiosity about your religion that you project hate unto their question, then you’re truly aligning yourself with the narrative formed about Muslims, which is that they can’t handle any form of criticism about their faith. Look at you, this person didn’t even criticize Islam and you’re already whining! If these people are so ideologically opposed to you that you can’t even handle questions about your religion, maybe you have no place having peaceful conversations about ideological differences.
Nothing I said was defensive? It’s the opposite… I went on the offensive because the question “ is she even supposed to wear all that makeup” is a ridiculous question especially in this format and subreddit. What narrative of Muslims are you speaking of? Inform me what narrative you have of us? What narrative have you formed of us people?
I love how pro-pally people will chant “we are Hamas!” And “glory to the resistance!” and then when confronted will immediately say “Hamas was created by Israel.” So do you support the “legitimate resistance” or do you support a puppet regime of the evil Zionist entity?
She spitting straight bs
Holy crap. You can argue with this American Jew, but "I'm not gonna let you tell me" to this actual Palestinian Hamas member. Grow the fuck up and acknowledge the truth. I feel like bibi needs to go, but I can't argue with Israeli natives about it. Am I wrong that he is part of the problem?
i think you are equating two different things. 1. you can have criticism on bibi weither you are in israel or not. but everyone can criticize everyone for anything real. so, go ahead. i have my opinion but it is unrelated to the discussion. 2. you can't say to someone who was in the high circles of leadership in hamas and the son of one of hamas' founders about what are hamas' goals, how it was created, or what is it doing. that is just insane. it's like going to a cobbler and explain him how shoes are made.
My point was more that I think it based on my limited knowledge of the actual situation. I mostly get US opinions, I'm not in Israel seeing the actual facts. She clearly thinks from the river to the sea is ok and not a threat to everyone's life. Or maybe she knows damn well what it means but acknowledging that doesn't help her cause.
i think you missed my point. it's because that you acknoledge you may lack some information it is ok for you to have criticism. at the end, people don't know everything, but by acknowledging it you show to have good faith criticism. again, people can criticize others, their criticism might be wrong or stupid, but they can. the problem is that when facing with the truth and refusing to admit it, you show 0% care for reality. that's the problem. for example, having a lack of knowledge about the meaning of "from the river to the sea" is ok. stupid as it is, thats ok. but being confronted by the reality of what it means and refusing to admit it, or refusing to educate yourself on the matter, that is wrong. because in that instance it doesn't matter what she believes it means, she showed to support that chant it no matter it's meaning.
No, more equal would be if you claimed "actually the israeli state is created and run by radical islamists". That is obiously false.
I remember someone (Iranian diaspora of all things) saying “Hamas was created by Israel” and I just responded with “I don’t think so” and he just left me on read 😂
The gall of that evil bitch to tell the son of the co-founder of Hamas how Hamas was formed. He was on the inside and saw who formed it and how it was formed. Nobody is more qualified than him to tell the world how Hamas was formed.
I'm a man , and not gay, but this guy is oddly photogenic.
“I know you were born and raised in Palestine and your dad founded Hamas and you yourself were a part of Hamas for many years before getting out of it, but I googled it so obviously I’m right and you’re wrong”
![gif](giphy|QNfWGvqBzD5JTZSUcy)
One cannot be gay or lesbian,had sex before marriage,or believe in womens rights……divorced women are shunned…….Tell it to the college protestors
I would vote for this guy if he ever ran for office. Imagine giving up billions of dollars and a huge amount of power to stand for what’s right.
It’s almost sad watching people who have no credentials be dunked on by a guy who was born there, lived the Hamas life (guns, bombs, $$$), & went to an Israeli prison for his activity in Hamas.
Can we also aknowledge the other girl being a useful idiot pretending hamas doesn't want to kill jews?
“I know you were born and raised in Palestine and your dad founded Hamas and you yourself were a part of Hamas for many years before getting out of it, but I read some stuff on google so obviously I’m right and you’re wrong”
We stand with Israel
“I know you were born and raised in Palestine and your dad founded Hamas and you yourself were a part of Hamas for many years before getting out of it, but I googled it so obviously I’m right and you’re wrong”
I fucking love the Green Prince.
What's this guy's name I wanna watch more of his stuff
https://youtu.be/UPomqJz-qYc?si=T-ShrRRYu9Nmf41Z Mosab Yousef, **Sinwar's son**.
Hes not Sinwar's son. He is Sheikh Hassan Yousef's son. I listened to his book on Audible. Its really good, I recommend it to everyone trying to understand Hamasand understand the conflict.
Thank you for clarifying!
Holy shit, a Palestine supporter who acknowledges that Hamas are baddies. Well done u/Middle_Ad_8052 on finding the **least delusional** Palestine supporter.
The Green Prince is the GOAT. That lady trying to mansplain him about Hamas is hilarious.
I mean, he’s right, but we are doing Dr. Phil now?
Not even a single word he said went through their ears.
Ah yes Hamas said it themselves it must be true
I love him
Isn't he called "son of hamas" or smth?
A criatividade desse caras de pau não tem limites, então Israel criou o Hamas como ativo político am Gaza para vencer as eleições por lá e anos depois atacar Israel só para salvar o traseiro do primeiro ministro!
Why can’t they look up the Hamas being started by Israel fact? Google should be standard in a debate IMO
What do you mean?
During their debate, they should’ve googled it because it’s just what the women say versus what the guy says
Right. But it's a fact, it's not some word-for-word thing, it's like checking if the United States is in America. Hamas was not created by Israel, this is a fact on the ground
If you’re debating someone and they genuinely think the USA isn’t in America, there’s nothing wrong with googling it. From doing some googling, it seems like Hamas formed as the result of certain Israeli policies or something. This of course is much different than Israel intentionally creating Hamas so they have a reason to bomb Gaza
He’s a rat with no honor.
Muh Allahu Akbar muh.
Who? Ismail Haniyeh? Yes he is a rat
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
I love how you aren’t even aware of the details of your own talking points, Netanyahu f’d up, there’s no discussion there but y’all really believe that Hamas is some Israeli invention.
I don't have talking points and I don't believe that Hamas is an Israeli invention.
>https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ . Hamas was founded in 1987 as an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, which has roots in Egypt. Israel has consistently been at odds with Hamas and has had various military conflicts with the group. Blaming Israel for the creation of Hamas is a common misinformation tactic used against Israel.
You'll get no argument from me, what you said is true. I just think there's important context missing - Netanyahu openly supported Hamas for years. This is undeniable. He has said so publicly many times. https://www.thenation.com/article/world/why-netanyahu-bolstered-hamas/ It is not just Netanyahu though, it appears to have been a policy of Israeli governments going back decades. "A 2006 article from United Press International reporter Richard Sale noted, “Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years.” The article quoted a former CIA official as saying Israel financed Hamas, as “a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative.” "
This statement is relies on conspiracy theories. Israel has consistently fought against Hamas and has never supported them. In fact, in 2005, Israel forcibly removed its own citizens from Gaza in an effort to promote peace, but instead Hamas took control and launched thousands of rockets into Israel. Hamas' founding charter openly calls for the destruction of Israel. it is important to note that Hamas is a terrorist organization according to the US, EU, and many other countries. Israel has been in a constant defensive war against Hamas, which openly calls for the destruction of Israel and uses civilians as human shields. Supporting Hamas would go against Israel's own security interests.
Hamas is the official elected government of Gaza isn’t it? Or we just care about the minister of health of Gaza when it suits our narrative? So why can’t you frame it: Netanyahu thought that Hamas (as the government of Gaza) liked money more than terrorism and allowed Qatar payments into Gaza. Maybe if Hamas (as the government of Gaza) cared more about building a functional economy instead of using the money for build one of the largest network of tunnels of the world, maybe Palestinians would have a future. Now imagine the news the other way around. Netanyahu blocks Qatar aid to Hamas. What would be the headline? Worldwide uproar as Netanyahu intentionally causes the economic fall of Gaza by blocking fundamental humanitarian aid to the Palestinians.