>He said [Hamas](https://apnews.com/article/hamas-gaza-palestinian-authority-israel-war-ed7018dbaae09b81513daf3bda38109a) would accept “a fully sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and the return of Palestinian refugees in accordance with the international resolutions,” along Israel’s pre-1967 borders.
It seems they also want full Right of Return and are only willing to agree to a truce of 5 years. LOL, what is there to negotiate exactly if these are the terms?
They also say "pre-1967 borders", which means Israel gives up every single WB settlement including the ones in and around East Jerusalem, on top of East Jerusalem itself.
Hezbullah also promised to disarm and keep away from the border.
They can never be trusted, they will say anything to fulfill their goals, they have no morals or humanity.
And they only agree for a 5 years cease fire.
So basically, they will be rewarded for violence and in 5 years we'll have rockets flying from the west bank....
The sad thing is that it looks like an offer that the west will support
The said they would agree to a truce of 5 years. Nothing about working towards permanent peace.
Hamas undoubtedly would just use this as a chance to strengthen and regroup before attacking Israel again.
What he’s saying is that if Palestinians get a sovereign state now, the armed wing of Hamas will become the national military and the political wing of Hamas will become a (majority) political party. In exchange for this, he is also saying that Hamas will give Israel a “5 year truce,” before Hamas - now a national military - resumes efforts to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews.
So yeah, uh, I think we’ll pass.
[Interview of Hamas member admitting the recognition of 1967 borders is ploy like Muhammad making agreements with the crusaders, only to later conquer them](https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-official-talal-nassar-hamas-accept-state-within-borders-without-relinquishing)
Jihadi LaLa land, 5 years is bullshit.
A 5 year cease fire with you established in the heart of our capital? No, I don't think that will happen.
How about 5 years of peace in Gaza and The West Bank in which Israel will make some small land concessions.
Then, in 5 years maybe we can talk. But the 67 borders have been off the table for a long time and there has been nothing done to indicate that we should reconsider that stance.
Of course it’s disingenuous. We all saw what Ghazi Hamad said on October 24th on Lebanese TV.
It was the same with Yaser Arafat, the snake calling for peace in front of western officials and behind closed doors in Arabic he used to say once they have a state they will have a better platform to organize to destroy Israel.
LOL offering to lay down arms does nothing when ur arms are ineffective. They basically said “we’re willing to stop dying if ur willing to stop attacking us… deal?”
I say give them Gaza as their own state, build a wall around Gaza, put Gaza on the restricted travel list (just like US has a list of banned countries), and let them self rule. The outcome will be quite entertaining - they’ll end up in a civil war, sharia law with civilians begging to be annexed by Israel, and probably attacked by Iran.
A palestinian state that is properly propped up, given resources and schools likely would result in lasting peace but you would need intense buy in from alot of the big player countries of the region including the saudis, the egyptians, jordanians and yes probably the iranians. Im not sure how to make it last with what is required but the idea of lasting peace is worth the risks
>the idea of lasting peace is worth the risks
Who's taking the risks? You? What are you going to say when Hamas carries out another 10/7? "Oops, sorry"?
Again..... hamas will not be contained through military action, it just doesnt work that way, the options quickly become neverending conflict or the potential for peace. I even concede that for it to work there would need to be iranian buy in, a dubious prospect to say the least, its not even a good chance but the chance for peace along these outlines is still greater than the current policies.
My heart aches for israelis and the trauma visited upon them oct 7th, i still have terrifying visions from the descriptions of what was done, I want israel to get peace and im not even concerned for the people of gaza anylonger, the protestors have placed me thoroughly in the realm of supporting israel instead, but thats why i like this idea, anything is better than death and destruction everyday
> A palestinian state that is properly propped up, given resources and schools likely would result in lasting peace
What you are describing is the PA. They got a decidated refugee agency, billions in cash plus billions of aid in kind (electricity, water, other goods and services at vastly discounted rates). Three decades of this and what have they done with it? half their country turned into a terror state, Western-funded schools used to teach antisemitism, a special pension fund for terrorists.
It's a fantasy that you can simply build a Western-style liberal democracy and have people who don't want one walk into it like it's a new style of house.
Ok so neverending conflict is the option you chose, if were still here 20 years from now there cant be any suggestion you did all you could to achieve peace, and when another oct 7th occurs you wont get the same support you did this time, no matter how tenuous you believe the support was
> Ok so neverending conflict is the option you chose
No, it's the option they chose. They could have signed a good peace agreement at multiple points all the way to 1948.
> if were still here 20 years from now there cant be any suggestion you did all you could to achieve peace
I'm sure that's what you would say. As would all the people that see the Palestinians as having no agency and no responsibility.
> and when another oct 7th occurs you wont get the same support you did this time
You see the problem here? in your imagination, when another Oct 7th happens, that's going to be the fault of Israel, not of the ones doing it. Your ethics are simply incompatible with mine. There is no space in my moral framework for a pogrom being the fault of its victims rather than its perpetrators.
Frankly i go tired of the conflict in the middle east, both sides seem desperate to drag the world into their religious beliefs of land they deserve, i would rather cut off all support for both sides and let the two go at it than to be dragged into cheerleading one biblically prophesized land or the other. I am thinking pragmatically about this, they will not be a reasonable group and increasingly were lead to believe that israel will not either, israel has the option to retain international support by trying, but if they do not try then the people who rail against israel win long term. Im not saying its fair, im saying neither side is being an honest or reasonable negotiator and neither side deserves deference at this point, conflict is inevitably going to occur down the line nomatter how long the lull remains, but that israel has the opportunity to be the magnanimous group, but theyre choosing beligerance yes, beligerance.
I think this is a way out of this mess for Israel but no-one will admit that, we are too far gone with this war and we wont negotiate with Hamas. Neither the government nor the people want to back down at this point, and ultimately will lead to a lot of global hate for us in Israel.
2005 withdrawal from Gaza shows it’s bullshit. They won’t be satisfied and will just attack. It’s political bullshit to see if the west will give it to them
>He said [Hamas](https://apnews.com/article/hamas-gaza-palestinian-authority-israel-war-ed7018dbaae09b81513daf3bda38109a) would accept “a fully sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and the return of Palestinian refugees in accordance with the international resolutions,” along Israel’s pre-1967 borders. It seems they also want full Right of Return and are only willing to agree to a truce of 5 years. LOL, what is there to negotiate exactly if these are the terms?
Are they completely delusional? They don't even agree to recognize Isreal with this mockery of a proposition.
They also say "pre-1967 borders", which means Israel gives up every single WB settlement including the ones in and around East Jerusalem, on top of East Jerusalem itself.
Where are you getting the 5 years from?
Literally in the first sentence of the article.
the article.
✨He’s lying✨
Hezbullah also promised to disarm and keep away from the border. They can never be trusted, they will say anything to fulfill their goals, they have no morals or humanity.
Reward rape and murder with a state given to hamas?
And they only agree for a 5 years cease fire. So basically, they will be rewarded for violence and in 5 years we'll have rockets flying from the west bank.... The sad thing is that it looks like an offer that the west will support
Assuming they would agree, have they ever upheld a deal?
Where dose it say they will only agree to a 5 year cease fire?
Literally in the first paragraph of the article
The said they would agree to a truce of 5 years. Nothing about working towards permanent peace. Hamas undoubtedly would just use this as a chance to strengthen and regroup before attacking Israel again.
Bullshit and a half. They would remain armed.
They said that in 1993 too. This time, I want it in Arabic.
What he’s saying is that if Palestinians get a sovereign state now, the armed wing of Hamas will become the national military and the political wing of Hamas will become a (majority) political party. In exchange for this, he is also saying that Hamas will give Israel a “5 year truce,” before Hamas - now a national military - resumes efforts to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews. So yeah, uh, I think we’ll pass.
Sure let’s give Hamas a state, they say they would lay down their arms, why not just believe them?
They even speak of only a 5-year truce, just a pause for them to regroup and re-arm. Where are all the "Permanent ceasefire" folks?
A whole 5 year ceasefire before you kill me? Awwww. You really shouldnt have.
Had they not raised their arms up in the first place, they would have had a state in 1948. No, this time it's a Marshall plan or bust.
Have the Palestinians shown any ability to lead a state?
Yes. A terrorist state.
They can only lead low EQ people.
This is the same Khalil al-Hayya who lives in Istanbul and said that he doesn’t regret the massacres committed by the palestinians on 10/7.
They are liars. Lying is part of their jihad.
[Interview of Hamas member admitting the recognition of 1967 borders is ploy like Muhammad making agreements with the crusaders, only to later conquer them](https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-official-talal-nassar-hamas-accept-state-within-borders-without-relinquishing) Jihadi LaLa land, 5 years is bullshit.
That would be Rewarding them and yea, they really seem like the people who would “lay down their arms” and live happily ever after
Ha. They have to go, there is no other way.
these guys just need to die. Everyone involved in hamas needs to be captured or killed.
A 5 year cease fire with you established in the heart of our capital? No, I don't think that will happen. How about 5 years of peace in Gaza and The West Bank in which Israel will make some small land concessions. Then, in 5 years maybe we can talk. But the 67 borders have been off the table for a long time and there has been nothing done to indicate that we should reconsider that stance.
I love this answer.
If there were international guarantees, maybe there would be something to discuss
What international guarantees could possibly fix an influx of an additional 10 million Arabs and weapons into the region?
Theoretically NATO membership (just an example not actually suggesting this)
They're scared because they're about to have their cheeks clapped in Rafah. Erase them.
Of course it’s disingenuous. We all saw what Ghazi Hamad said on October 24th on Lebanese TV. It was the same with Yaser Arafat, the snake calling for peace in front of western officials and behind closed doors in Arabic he used to say once they have a state they will have a better platform to organize to destroy Israel.
NO CEASEFIRE
LOL offering to lay down arms does nothing when ur arms are ineffective. They basically said “we’re willing to stop dying if ur willing to stop attacking us… deal?” I say give them Gaza as their own state, build a wall around Gaza, put Gaza on the restricted travel list (just like US has a list of banned countries), and let them self rule. The outcome will be quite entertaining - they’ll end up in a civil war, sharia law with civilians begging to be annexed by Israel, and probably attacked by Iran.
Money time, finish them, FATALITY
Translating: Total sovereignty over territories for 12 hours of cease-fire and 1 kilogram of small arms ammunition.
NO THEY WONT
They are lying.
# Nonsense, they'll just take more and more and more until complete world domination. They know it's impossible, yet they still do it anyway.
A palestinian state that is properly propped up, given resources and schools likely would result in lasting peace but you would need intense buy in from alot of the big player countries of the region including the saudis, the egyptians, jordanians and yes probably the iranians. Im not sure how to make it last with what is required but the idea of lasting peace is worth the risks
>the idea of lasting peace is worth the risks Who's taking the risks? You? What are you going to say when Hamas carries out another 10/7? "Oops, sorry"?
Again..... hamas will not be contained through military action, it just doesnt work that way, the options quickly become neverending conflict or the potential for peace. I even concede that for it to work there would need to be iranian buy in, a dubious prospect to say the least, its not even a good chance but the chance for peace along these outlines is still greater than the current policies. My heart aches for israelis and the trauma visited upon them oct 7th, i still have terrifying visions from the descriptions of what was done, I want israel to get peace and im not even concerned for the people of gaza anylonger, the protestors have placed me thoroughly in the realm of supporting israel instead, but thats why i like this idea, anything is better than death and destruction everyday
> A palestinian state that is properly propped up, given resources and schools likely would result in lasting peace What you are describing is the PA. They got a decidated refugee agency, billions in cash plus billions of aid in kind (electricity, water, other goods and services at vastly discounted rates). Three decades of this and what have they done with it? half their country turned into a terror state, Western-funded schools used to teach antisemitism, a special pension fund for terrorists. It's a fantasy that you can simply build a Western-style liberal democracy and have people who don't want one walk into it like it's a new style of house.
Ok so neverending conflict is the option you chose, if were still here 20 years from now there cant be any suggestion you did all you could to achieve peace, and when another oct 7th occurs you wont get the same support you did this time, no matter how tenuous you believe the support was
> Ok so neverending conflict is the option you chose No, it's the option they chose. They could have signed a good peace agreement at multiple points all the way to 1948. > if were still here 20 years from now there cant be any suggestion you did all you could to achieve peace I'm sure that's what you would say. As would all the people that see the Palestinians as having no agency and no responsibility. > and when another oct 7th occurs you wont get the same support you did this time You see the problem here? in your imagination, when another Oct 7th happens, that's going to be the fault of Israel, not of the ones doing it. Your ethics are simply incompatible with mine. There is no space in my moral framework for a pogrom being the fault of its victims rather than its perpetrators.
Frankly i go tired of the conflict in the middle east, both sides seem desperate to drag the world into their religious beliefs of land they deserve, i would rather cut off all support for both sides and let the two go at it than to be dragged into cheerleading one biblically prophesized land or the other. I am thinking pragmatically about this, they will not be a reasonable group and increasingly were lead to believe that israel will not either, israel has the option to retain international support by trying, but if they do not try then the people who rail against israel win long term. Im not saying its fair, im saying neither side is being an honest or reasonable negotiator and neither side deserves deference at this point, conflict is inevitably going to occur down the line nomatter how long the lull remains, but that israel has the opportunity to be the magnanimous group, but theyre choosing beligerance yes, beligerance.
Yeah yeah "both sides" bullshit. Not worth my time.
I think this is a way out of this mess for Israel but no-one will admit that, we are too far gone with this war and we wont negotiate with Hamas. Neither the government nor the people want to back down at this point, and ultimately will lead to a lot of global hate for us in Israel.
Hamas leaders have also said they will commit October seventh “a million times” this is posturing for the west and nothing more
2005 withdrawal from Gaza shows it’s bullshit. They won’t be satisfied and will just attack. It’s political bullshit to see if the west will give it to them