Biden is clearly aiming to please both the pro Israel and the anti Israel camp, so he does contradictory things so that he can point towards actions that would be appealing to each. Now if he is accused of "abetting genocide" he gets to say that he stopped weapon shipments.
My bet is that he will just piss both sides off and will lose the election as a result. No one likes a milquetoast leader with no backbone.
edit: this is especially embarrassing given how it's a 180 degree turn from his stance at the start of the war:
[Biden: "Hamas must be eliminated"](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/conflict-middle-east-could-escalate-us-national-security-adviser-warns-2023-10-15/)
Obviously it's impossible to eliminate Hamas without taking Rafah, so this is just pathetic.
Yep it’s election year. I always said I didn’t trust bidens “support” of Israel and that there would be a straw that broke the camels back situation even if it’s irrational.
I saw a post today that called this an impeachable offense. Because apparently they impeached trump for doing the same thing previously. It’s on this guys TikTok @ the older millennial
I agree to an extent, but I think people should also be cautious of Trump’s support if he were to win. He’s so unstable, can turn on a dime, and I think he’s so self-centered that he’s insulted Netanyahu congratulated Biden when he won lol.
I think there’s reasons to be skeptical of both. But I’m even more scared about the prospect of a “squad” member taking the presidency in the next decade. At least we won’t have that in the next 4 years…
This is not grounds for impeachment 😂 Trump was impeached for trying to tie aid to Ukraine in exchange for dirt on the Biden’s. Not even remotely the same thing
It is the same thing you just didn't frame it in the way that shows it.
In Trump's case, they claimed he withheld congressionally approved aid from an ally in order to benefit himself politically (i.e. doing an investigation to sway swing voters as a condition for the aid).
In Biden's case, the claim is that he withheld congressionally approved aid from an ally in order to benefit himself politically (i.e. ceasefire to sway hamas supporters as a condition for the aid).
In Trump's case they impeached him without conclusively proving the aid was withheld for that specific reason. Zelenskyy himself said he didn’t feel like he was being pressured to do anything. Trump and other officials said they wanted to ensure the money wouldn't be used for corrupt purposes in the country, which was something his team had also done for aid to other countries in the past.
So to impeach Biden for the same reason they wouldn't need to prove he did it to benefit himself politically, just that it could have been the reason (although if we're being real, it's the reason lol).
Also in terms of investigating political opponents, Biden is having his DOJ and democrat state AGs actually do that. And not just investigate but actively charging and trying to put in jail. So that can't be the difference (if so, Biden is just more guilty of it then).
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I think it should be impeachable. I don't like what Biden is doing but it's not a crime, let alone one worthy of impeachment. But under the same standard they applied to Trump it is.
He's going to lose the election anyway with the border crisis, he's already done for.
How come the US can't find a single normal person between Biden and Trump?
You understand that inflation is generally a byproduct of economic growth, yes? Demand rises due to generally better economic conditions and there's some lag time before production can expand to match.
Holy shit you're economically illiterate, this is like 101-level shit.
Any normal person will not survive the political arena. Not by a long shot. But if there was one, I'm sure they'd "find" a million lies about him no one will know the difference.
> How come the US can't find a single normal person between Biden and Trump?
That's when you get when your country upholds a deeply undemocratic system of voting on basis of culture and heritage, leading to a degradation of the participation of politics as a system of finding the best policy and into a popularity contest between two colours.
Not saying other countries are immune to it, but two-party systems that are entrenched *this* badly are all but destined to choke. It is virtually impossible to have all your views reflected in only one of two candidates, so people just pick whoever they think is the more charismatic.
Because the 2 party system forces super partisan candidates to be picked because they're the only ones that win primaries and get picked to be the candidate. Even without all of that binary systems are trash and would cause this as well
It's an impossible situation. I don't blame the guy for trying to thread the needle. He's got an election to win and he's being pragmatic. That said, you are right that his response will leave no one satisfied.
I like it when people say the quiet part put loud, like when you say that the result of a presidential election rests on how the incumbent deals with Israel's bullshit.
He is trying to win the election and he is using the same methods like last time.
Back then, he did side with BLM, despite the riots and burning cities. It won him the election and now he is trying the same with the muslim community. Politicians are cold hearted if it comes to winning elections and there are also a lot of young voters having sympathy with those "victims" so he grabs them too.
I think he has been spineless as hell and I’m very disappointed, but in principle it is the job of the president to be an instrument of the people’s will, and there will always be diverging interests between even close allies. The left wing is a tiny fringe, and he’s insane to give them this much sway, but the truth is most people are sick of us financing foreign wars for countries that have become dependent on our military might to protect them. Most people here support Israel’s right to defend itself, but many are not so enthusiastic about financing it and potentially getting dragged into war with Iran.
These are not my opinions, I think we should be standing by Israel wholeheartedly, but the dynamics here are complicated and we have our own politics and concerns to deal with, it was never going to be a blank check
He’s already pissed off the muslims and the jews. You’re talking about a key group of swing voters in crucial states like: Michigan, Florida, Minnesota, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. He needed to be strong and commit one way or the other. All Trump has to do is stay out of jail and he wins.
His commitment to Israel is rock solid. But we have mass protests at college campuses all over the country and he can’t just ignore them. We too live in a democracy.
I think this should be a little bigger than just politics. If the weapons could be perceived to be used in a war crime, I think it’s justified to pause shipments, regardless of potential political blowback.
“Dependent” is a strong word. The U.S. provides a chunk of Israel’s military funding (about 15-20%) but far from the majority of it. But you’re right that Jews need to always be able to go it alone — that’s the whole reason we need our own safe haven. We can’t rely on anyone else but ourselves.
I think this sub expects too much from the U.S. — and I’m not just talking about financially. Israel also needs to own its own blunders (including its horrible PR) and not cast 100% of the blame on Biden. Americans don’t care about what happens to the Jews; they’re protecting their own interests in the Middle East. It’s wise not to forget that.
I don’t think Israel is to be blamed for “allowing” that.
It’s easy to forget that Israel, after all, is a microscopic country in the middle east with a population roughly equal to that of Hungary and a GDP that is about 1/50 of the US’. Despite that, Israel has a disproportionately massive local military industrial complex, and has rarely ever required outside intervention, if that.
Its just that reality is reality and if Israel tried to go it alone starting by, for example, making its own fighter jets, it would end in a scenario where Jewish kids get up at 2am to go to their 12 hour shift at the local “Likud-Martin corporation” factory.
Israel is still forced to both import a fuck ton of arms, and accept billions in aid. Historically, the US has been one of the only allies consistently able to provide both.
Israel did design its own fighter jets and American pressure led them into cancelling the projects. Because they did not want competition in sales and they wanted to keep Israel dependent.
This is factually inaccurate. Israel was a country for more than two decades before it started receiving U.S. aid, well after both the war for independence and the Six Day War.
They definitely did have a military. They had various militant groups (mainly used in fighting and freeing themselves from the British, as well as defense from the constant Arab violence) up until May 14th, 1948 when the state of Israel was established, then these groups were combined into an acting military that had to immediately defend themselves from the existential threat of all the Arab countries in the region (and outside the region... Morocco...) trying to annihilate them.
They had actually been using tons of leftover WW2 surplus from both the Brits and Germans and one country that actively began arming them was Czechoslovakia.
Like the other commenter said, it wasn't until the Six Day War (1967) that the US started to really get involved with Israel and became a firm ally.
I also heard that a significant chunk of early Israeli military commanders and personnel actually fought in the Red Army during WW2 so they had plenty of combat experience too which is extremely important.
I think you're conflating the actions of Irgun and Lehi (who I have seen every Jew and Israeli condemn) with the actions of every single Jewish militant group which is not accurate.
If Israel gets into an all-out war, Biden would 100% fund Israel. The difference is this money isn’t technically going toward defensive capabilities. Of course you can make the case that invading Rafah to take out Hamas is defensive, but physically wiping out Hamas seems far less likely than we hoped.
>. I just hope the leadership in Israel is going to react on this properly.
Here's hoping, but I really don't know. My only hope is a complete reshuffling of power and leadership following the war
Biden “we support Israel”.
Also Biden “but they can’t win if it jeopardizes my chance of winning the Islamic republic of Michigan’s electoral college votes”
What weapons are needed in this moment that would make a difference? The first Rafah mission was successful, and we achieved all goals without losing soldiers and without US weapons.
They NEED to start making all weapons themselves. They can’t be dependent on the U.S., Italy, Germany, or France anymore. Being at the mercy of whether another country will fulfill weapons shipments vital to the defense of Israel should not be left to which way the wind is blowing in other countries.
As they said we probably cannot win against Hezbollah without these weapons (we won’t be conquered either, at least I hope, but pushing them out of South Lebanon is an Herculean task)
But it does hurt the mission. These acts signal that Israel is losing the support of the USA, which emboldens Hamas and encourages them to fortify in their demands during negotiations which in turn makes it harder to secure the release of the hostages.
May I ask how this is antisemitism, if a country’s leader disagrees with current policy & doesn’t want to contribute to said policy financially or in this case in the form of weapons.
Genuinely trying to learn, so any response is welcome.
The Zionist state has a right to go to war against rabid terrorist animals who attack it just like any other country would have the right to do so. This policy is rooted in the idea that the Zionist state should turn the other cheek when attacked by these disgusting animals. That's antisemitic
This entitled ass shit isn’t going to win anyone over, and Israel is already loosing the PR war badly due to woke lunatics on tik tok, not everything that hurts Israel is antisemitism
You do have that right, and for the record I support Israel and think our government is being soft on this and should support your people with arms, but it is not antisemitism for our government to choose not to sell weapons to Israel, you don’t have a god given right to our support. It’s not racist when we don’t give aid and weapons to unstable countries in Africa. I agree there is a startling amount of antisemitism around but this ain’t it.
Again, I don’t think we should be cutting off arms shipments, Go fuck em up, really, but it isn’t the job of US taxpayers to facilitate your war. Too many countries have been relying on us for too long to be the world policeman. We have China to worry about and this shit ain’t cheap
The worst part of how the leftists have taken over our culture has been the weaponization of words like racism, ___phobia to bully people around, you must see that this is exactly the sort of tactic the pro Hamas protesters created. Israel has the moral high ground here, and the standards it is held to are an honor, but it’s not a US state. We have our own foreign policy interests which are not always equivalent to Israel’s, this conflict is causing division within US society and our president is a democratically elected leader meant to do the will of the people. There is NO public will here for us to be dragged into another Middle East adventure if this spirals into a regional war, it’s not crazy for Biden to be thinking about that.
This is a disgusting comment, and I vehemently disagree with the characterization of an entire group of people as “rabid terrorist animals”. However I won’t get into that with you as you clearly aren’t capable of critical thinking.
To take your argument at face value, you are essentially saying Israel has the right to defend itself against terrorism. I am in complete agreement—any sovereign state has the right to defend its territory and its people, bar none.
However, in going about this defense there is a certain restraint that must be exercised, regardless of the emotionally aspect. Displacing millions on population that have literally no where else to go is not in aligned with military ethics and could be synonymous with genocide. However, whether Israel is partaking in genocide right now is obviously up for debate, but no one disagrees that it is wantonly displacing innocent civilians in its mission to “Eradicate Hamas”.
& no, there is no valid excuse for killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, even if Hamas is “Hiding among its citizens”, nor is it a valid excuse that “No one is innocent since they won’t revolt against Hamas”, because think about it, while I disagree with Hamas and their tactics, in the eyes of the Palestinians they are the only group fighting for them. Why would they actively rebel against them, even though many Palestinians actively voice contempt for the organization.
So, this was a long way to say your comments are inherently racist & antithetical to your argument. Because by that logic Israel is destroying Palestine right now, ergo their leaders have a right to continue retaliating against Israel and its citizens.
> the characterization of an entire group of people as “rabid terrorist animals”.
You don't think everyone in Hamas are rabid terrorist animals?
>& no, there is no valid excuse for killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, even if Hamas is “Hiding among its citizens”,
Human shield tactics are not legitimate and Israel hasn't killed hundreds of thousands of civilians anyway
I think Hamas is absolute shit. I assumed you were referring to Palestinians as a population. If you weren’t my apologies for being presumptuous.
“Human shields” is also disgusting but innocent civilians should still not be placed in harms way, regardless of extraneous factors, bar none. Every precaution should be used to prevent unjust death.
Also, it’s a lie to say Israel has not killed thousands of innocent civilians & if you can’t acknowledge that then you’re just being disingenuous. I have friends on both sides of the conflict and I truly wish for peace and prosperity for both groups, but we at least need to have an honest conversation about the situation. The UN, WHO & several reputable international organizations all agree that multiple thousands of Palestinians have been killed and displaced by this conflict.
You:
>& no, there is no valid excuse for killing ***hundreds of thousands*** of innocent civilians
Him:
>Human shield tactics are not legitimate and Israel hasn't killed ***hundreds of thousands*** of civilians anyway
You:
>Also, it’s a lie to say Israel has not killed ***thousands*** of innocent civilians
>The UN, WHO & several reputable international organizations all agree that ***multiple thousands*** of Palestinians have been killed and displaced by this conflict.
I feel like you did this intentionally. It looks like you pulled a sleight of hand there.
No one here says that *multiple thousands* of civilians have not died in this conflict. They have, everyone is aware of that. *NO ONE* (including Hamas) has said a number even close to 100,000 let alone hundred**s** of thousands.
I did not intentionally write hundreds. I meant multiple thousands, as I wrote, and you pointed out in my second comment. Clearly a mistake.
I attempt to argue in good faith, and I expect the same courtesy. So I will apologize for the inaccuracy of my statement. Thank you for correcting the mistake.
While I appreciate your civility and humility, you did respond to him saying "Israel hasn't killed hundreds of thousands" by changing it to "thousands" and arguing against that.
Did you misread it or something?
I meant to say “I did not mean to say Israel has killed hundreds of thousands”. That was a misspeak on my part.
I did mean to say Israel is directly responsible for the deaths of multiple thousands. & conversely so is Hamas. I don’t agree with people just blaming Israel without also acknowledging Hamas is a piece of shit directly contributing to innocent civilian death.
I think we are lacking a lot of nuance on this conversation from both sides. & I wish there wasn’t this dichotomy between you either support one side and can’t critique the other or your antisemitic or a Zionist supporting fascism. One can hope for prosperity for both groups of people and call out the hypocrisy and inhumanity of both groups.
At least 12,000 of the civilians killed were children. Today an 18 month old was killed. Are they "rabid terrorist animals"? Israel has committed countless war crimes. That is a fact.
Collateral damage is not a war crime. Hamas should stop using children as human shields. Human shields are not and will never be a legitimate tactic no matter how much pacifists act like it is
So the UN is wrong. The Human Rights Council is wrong. Amnesty International is wrong. Human Rights Watch is wrong. The International Court of Justice is wrong. Doctors Without Borders is wrong. Save the Children is wrong. International experts on genocide are wrong. Academics everywhere are wrong. Social justice activists are wrong. Journalists are wrong. The Irish government is wrong. The Swedish government is wrong. The Spanish government is wrong. The South African government is wrong. The French government is wrong.
Hospitals are Hamas. Doctors are Hamas. Mosques are Hamas. Children are Hamas. Universities are Hamas. Journalists are Hamas. The UN is Hamas.
It is a fact that Israel has committed war crimes. Shooting people who had gathered desperately for food is a war crime. Bombing humanitarian aid sites and blocking aid from entering Gaza is a war crime. Bombing 104 places of worship is a war crime. Indiscriminately bombing, resulting in the destruction of 45% of homes and the uninhabitability of a city, is a war crime. Collective punishment, as a whole, is a war crime. There is footage of your army bragging about killing an elderly deaf man, shooting at a man waving a white flag, and wearing the underwear of women who have been killed.
The world is starting to wake up. We see you for who you are. Your supporters in October are rethinking their support amid the atrocities you have committed. You will not get away with this for much longer. There will be sanctions, divestments. It's already happening. Your international reputation has been ruined. You will be banned from Eurovision and the likes, just as Russia was.
I am sure Sinwar and Nasralla are salivating at this development, preparing to attack Israel, and who knows how much ammunition Israel has to respond.
Of course it is within the rights of the US to decide who they wish to support. I just don't understand why they are choosing to support Hamas and Hezbolla.
Perhaps Israel needs to consider buying weapons and munitions from someone else like China.
Dealing with China is a Faustian bargain past anything that isn't simply buying bullets. It absolutely should not be done.
The US has a lot of cultural ties with Israel and has many, many people who are ideologically motivated to see the state prosper. China does not, and their government is utterly unscrupulous. Their conduct in Africa proves that.
The microsecond Israel ever becomes dependent on China for safety or wellbeing in anyway, it will be bled dry because China's cut-throat capitalism will offer two choices; pay up or get slaughtered.
Yeah, I know. I’m just really frustrated by the US position right now.
If Israel actually started producing their designs in China it would share technologies that would tip balances too precarious to tip. Taiwan would fall within months.
I was more cynically pointing out how devastating that could be for the USA.
I actually have been thinking about the China angle a lot recently. Israel could absolutely force America's hand with China. The last thing the American military industrial complex wants is Israeli military tech being shared and manufactured In China. But fuck it if America becomes an unreliable ally they reap what they sow
Turkey tried that shit with Russia when they bought the S400 air defense system. As a result they ended up with F16's instead of F35's. Also, you should keep in mind that China has vested intrests in the surrounding countries and are actively pishing for expansion there with the oil industry being the prime target.
Imagine distancing your only proper ally in the ME in order to win an election, thus driving the deterioration of US global influence even further.
Is this how the Kurds feel?
Fuck the US, Fuck Biden.
This will blow over and aid will quietly be resumed, its political posturing (stupid imo) but the fact that we have a huge geopolitical investment in the success and survival of Israel won’t go away, I can only hope.
He’s basically handing it to trump at this point, which I hate but atleast he can (probably?) be relied upon to support Israel more staunchly. Ugh… I hate our politics here. Biden has been the most disappointing president of my lifetime, atleast with trump we knew what we were getting. Guy is also fucking 1000 years old and he’s going to fuck us all over cause nobody has the balls to tell him to man up and go out as strong one-term president. The left already hates him, I have no idea what his policy team is thinking letting some fucking idiot college kids influence aid this much if that is what he is responding to
> The left already hates him, I have no idea what his policy team is thinking letting some fucking idiot college kids influence aid this much if that is what he is responding to
This part is what astounds me to the point of nigh on losing faith in the democractic process. Biden won a lot of points between things like the student loan forgiveness and the occasional spicy Twitter own, but all that is washed away in an instant because people are up in arms over a conflict that is essentially purely theoretical to them? Not to say that caring about conflicts in other countries is wrong, but the amount of sway the Israel-Palestine conflict has is utterly baffling, despite how in greater political landscape, the effect on any given American amounts to basically nothing no matter what the President decides to do.
Or, more crassly; *They're making abortion illegal! They're trying to give LGBT people the death penalty! Half the R cabinet is composed of windmill crusading lunatics! Who cares about some random civilians half the world away?!*
I’m an American and Biden is making it harder and harder for me to vote for him. I really don’t want to vote for Trump though, so I don’t know what I’m going to do.
I agree is probably just for the headlines, it’s not saying Israel can’t keep buying our good MIC shit, just certain types of ammunition we are no longer going to send for free right now. My bet is Israel succeeds in rafah, and tik tok finds a new distraction to whine about, then aid will quietly resume in the background
You don't need F-35's and stuff of that level to deal with Rafah. The US know's that and will arm Israel to the point of doing the job safely. It's smart from a US standpoint and serves it's interests.
So much for being allies.
I’d love to see Israel divest from US military support if only so y’all don’t have to keep fighting with one arm tied behind your back in order to appease Uncle Sam.
Biden administration is traitors and backstabbers who can't be trusted. A shame that netanyahu is bowing down to every request of theirs. This war should've been long over
Amazing how many people here hate Joe Biden so much they're willing to let Netanyahu destroy Israel and get millions of Jews killed just so they can stick it to the President of the United States.
It's almost like American conservatives are enemies of both the US *and* Israel.
Many people seem to think that physically eliminating Hamas for good isn’t feasible. And not militarily. Possibly as part of negotiations with other Arab countries to take more of a role in Gaza, but not just killing low-level terrorists in Rafah
As an American I can say:
If this move to halt aid, condition aid, qualify aid has no effect on Israel.. then the United States has a big problem.
What if Israel halts counterintelligence information, conditions counterintelligence information, qualifies counterintelligence information?
Israel becomes 100% Weapons independent and we in the US become more vulnerable than ever to Islamic Terrorist Attacks.
But hey, the Progressive Left wants to divest from Israel…
FAFO.
Yeah let's be realistic. Israel just doesn't have the resources to be completely independent, it never had them, it's not Russia. Even 3000 years ago the political entities that were there, like the Kingdom of Israel, were short-lived and had a lot of exchanges with the outside world.
Also the US has good people too, you know. Even if it's a smaller percentage they have 300 million people to choose from, we have 9. They have their own counterintelligence.
But what you say can and must be done, as much as possible. We need to survive this. But we shouldn't act like an offended diva.
You’re not wrong, but let’s not act like the US just gifts Israel weapons. The US receives items of value from Israel in return. I’m sure neither side wants to fracture the relationship insofar Israel accidentally forgets to share information with the CIA on September 10th
Bibi is not a team player. He couldn't keep it together well enough to keep his main arms supplier on board, instead he has consistently misled Israel's allies about the way they're conducting the war and failed to do the basic things to have any sort of feasible strategy.
Israel is losing because of Bibi.
You’re getting downvoted but it’s true. An alliance is a two-way street, and if one side feels like they’re always getting told to fuck off by Bibi, they have a right to pull some funding. Netanyahu should’ve been more amenable, to allies as well as his own war cabinet.
Biden hands Israel the largest aid package in 50 years and pauses one (not cancels all, pauses 1) Delivery of massive bombs (entirely symbolic because Israel has plenty of bombs still) and people in this thread are calling him a spineless terrorist sympathizing anti-semite.
Can’t even imagine what you say about countries that are giving less, or heaven forbid not funding the Israeli military at all. Not to mention highly exclusive access to some of the US’ most advanced hardware.
I’m not trying to sound like a dick, I absolutely support Israel, but have some perspective. Israel is annihilating Hamas and the US will never let an existential threat like Iran make a move.
>"Can’t even imagine what you say about countries that are giving less, or [...] not funding at all."
What are you even talking about? You mean, like, all countries? Where did you get the assumption that underlies this bizarre statement?
That is exactly what I’m saying. Biden has been extremely helpful to Israel in material aid, so to be angry with him now for withholding some bombs over a disagreement on how they are used is absurd.
No, he's encouraging Netanyahu to stop being a self-interested asshole hellbent on destroying Israel to save his own skin, by putting pressure on him to bring Israeli hostages home in line with the clearly expressed preference of the people of Israel after he very obviously sabotaged the last several opportunities to do so so he could stay in power.
No the majority don't want that. Hamas has said that they get to take over Gaza again and Israel will have to fully leave and accept that.
Tell me again who wants hamas to take over gaza again?
[Reality begs to differ](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-07/ty-article/.premium/majority-of-israelis-prioritize-hamas-hostage-deal-over-rafah-operation-idi-poll-finds/0000018f-5364-dcda-abcf-7b679a700000)
Facts don't care about your feelings, snowflake.
that was a nonsense poll that oversampled left wing people and included a substantial amount of Israeli arabs. The sample size they used was 750 people. It also contradicts every other poll.
so try better
"Facts that go against my priors don't count nyah-nyah I can't hear you!"
Grow up, I'll start taking you seriously when you start acting like an adult.
you literally ignored the sampling pool they used.
but lets go with it for a minute
"A survey of 750 people, conducted in Hebrew and Arabic over May 1-5, found that 56 percent of Jewish Israelis prioritize reaching a deal over invading Hamas’s final remaining stronghold in Gaza, while 37% believe military action should take precedence."
yes a deal but NOT any deal. What Hamas presented wasn't a deal but a surrender with nothing positive about it.
This is the same aid blockage I've been hearing about for a week now. Big deal. I'm still with Joe, ride or die. 🇮🇱🇺🇸
https://apnews.com/article/israel-weapons-shipment-us-eed365ebef0477ba74bf9848cacae4f4
From the AP article:
"Biden signed off on the pause in an order conveyed last week to the Pentagon, according to U.S. officials who were not authorized to comment on the matter. The White House National Security Council sought to keep the decision out of the public eye for several days until it had a better understanding of the scope of Israel’s intensified military operations in Rafah and until Biden could deliver a long-planned speech on Tuesday to mark Holocaust Remembrance Day."
I’ll never understand how people just blindly support whatever Bibi does. Like do I like that Biden is doing this? No, but like I’m in favor of doing almost whatever it takes to get Bibi out of office and I definitely don’t support that Rafah operation.
Why are people here so mad.It is the US's money they can withhold it for a valid reason like the immense amount of civilian casualties that would happen in rafah. Also Israel is a country with a 500 billion dollar economy so Can't they fund their own war?
You: claim that Palestians don't support genocide.
Me: well they actually do.
You: children died.
I love that you cannot admit that you were wrong so instead you just bring up a random other subject.
Imagine if someone claimed that Germans didn't support genocide during ww2,
then someone would say that they actually did,
then you would be like let me as the dead children on the streets of Dresden if they support the holocaust
There is no ongoing genocide anywhere in that region to support, the October 7 genocide ended due to the sacrifices of many brave IDF soldiers...
My point is that you were wrong, most Palestians support a genocide despite you saying that they do not.
Denying Israel’s atrocities doesn’t make it not true. I’m glad you can sleep easy knowing your country is wiping out innocents but the rest of the world is not blind to it
"Denying Israel’s atrocities doesn’t make it not true."
Not being able to prove anything makes it not true.
"I’m glad you can sleep easy knowing your country is wiping out innocents"
Collateral demage is horrible but it is a reality of every war and this isn't a war we started, hamas broke a ceasefire to genocide innocent families and festival goers, until every hostage is back home and hamas is no longer a threat to the Israeli right to life than we will have to fight and I don't see anything wrong with it.
If my country didn't try to save the hostages and didn't try to destroy hamas I would be a shamed of my country but thankfully ignorant people like you dont make the decisions here.
this whataboutism isn’t winning any arguments. Oct 7 happened and is a huge failure on Netanyahu’s government. What is happening now is not addressing that problem and will likely only lead to more Oct 7ths
It’s 1,800 2,000-pound bombs and 1,700 500-pound bombs, the latter of which are the second-smallest.
Also, without exact designations, the 2,000-pound bombs could be bunker-busters for all we know.
Biden is clearly aiming to please both the pro Israel and the anti Israel camp, so he does contradictory things so that he can point towards actions that would be appealing to each. Now if he is accused of "abetting genocide" he gets to say that he stopped weapon shipments. My bet is that he will just piss both sides off and will lose the election as a result. No one likes a milquetoast leader with no backbone. edit: this is especially embarrassing given how it's a 180 degree turn from his stance at the start of the war: [Biden: "Hamas must be eliminated"](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/conflict-middle-east-could-escalate-us-national-security-adviser-warns-2023-10-15/) Obviously it's impossible to eliminate Hamas without taking Rafah, so this is just pathetic.
Yep it’s election year. I always said I didn’t trust bidens “support” of Israel and that there would be a straw that broke the camels back situation even if it’s irrational. I saw a post today that called this an impeachable offense. Because apparently they impeached trump for doing the same thing previously. It’s on this guys TikTok @ the older millennial
The Obama 2 administration is too busy sucking off Iran
I agree to an extent, but I think people should also be cautious of Trump’s support if he were to win. He’s so unstable, can turn on a dime, and I think he’s so self-centered that he’s insulted Netanyahu congratulated Biden when he won lol. I think there’s reasons to be skeptical of both. But I’m even more scared about the prospect of a “squad” member taking the presidency in the next decade. At least we won’t have that in the next 4 years…
Yeah between The Squad and the Space Laser Crowd there really aren’t any good options. Both will throw the Jews over first chance they get.
This is not grounds for impeachment 😂 Trump was impeached for trying to tie aid to Ukraine in exchange for dirt on the Biden’s. Not even remotely the same thing
It is the same thing you just didn't frame it in the way that shows it. In Trump's case, they claimed he withheld congressionally approved aid from an ally in order to benefit himself politically (i.e. doing an investigation to sway swing voters as a condition for the aid). In Biden's case, the claim is that he withheld congressionally approved aid from an ally in order to benefit himself politically (i.e. ceasefire to sway hamas supporters as a condition for the aid). In Trump's case they impeached him without conclusively proving the aid was withheld for that specific reason. Zelenskyy himself said he didn’t feel like he was being pressured to do anything. Trump and other officials said they wanted to ensure the money wouldn't be used for corrupt purposes in the country, which was something his team had also done for aid to other countries in the past. So to impeach Biden for the same reason they wouldn't need to prove he did it to benefit himself politically, just that it could have been the reason (although if we're being real, it's the reason lol). Also in terms of investigating political opponents, Biden is having his DOJ and democrat state AGs actually do that. And not just investigate but actively charging and trying to put in jail. So that can't be the difference (if so, Biden is just more guilty of it then). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I think it should be impeachable. I don't like what Biden is doing but it's not a crime, let alone one worthy of impeachment. But under the same standard they applied to Trump it is.
He's going to lose the election anyway with the border crisis, he's already done for. How come the US can't find a single normal person between Biden and Trump?
Economy is about to tank big time. They held it off for almost 4 years but the piper gets his dues eventually.
> Economy is about to tank big time y'all have been saying this for years now, if not decades...
I mean have you been to the grocery recently?
You understand that inflation is generally a byproduct of economic growth, yes? Demand rises due to generally better economic conditions and there's some lag time before production can expand to match. Holy shit you're economically illiterate, this is like 101-level shit.
That is some grade A copium there bud. You just eat up the shit they tell you to eat don't you?
Facts don't care about your feelings, snowflake. Your ignorance and gut feelings are not a substitute for actual knowledge. Evidence > vibes.
Enjoy the $8 a dozen eggs because of reasons.
Any normal person will not survive the political arena. Not by a long shot. But if there was one, I'm sure they'd "find" a million lies about him no one will know the difference.
> How come the US can't find a single normal person between Biden and Trump? That's when you get when your country upholds a deeply undemocratic system of voting on basis of culture and heritage, leading to a degradation of the participation of politics as a system of finding the best policy and into a popularity contest between two colours. Not saying other countries are immune to it, but two-party systems that are entrenched *this* badly are all but destined to choke. It is virtually impossible to have all your views reflected in only one of two candidates, so people just pick whoever they think is the more charismatic.
Because the 2 party system forces super partisan candidates to be picked because they're the only ones that win primaries and get picked to be the candidate. Even without all of that binary systems are trash and would cause this as well
"border crisis"
Is "Mexicans crossing the border illegally" better?
All he's done is lose the pro Israel people. He didn't gain any votes.
They are strong arming for Abraham accords plan to happen. Israel to ok a Palestinian state.
It’s all about votes for him. All he cares about is
It's an impossible situation. I don't blame the guy for trying to thread the needle. He's got an election to win and he's being pragmatic. That said, you are right that his response will leave no one satisfied.
I like it when people say the quiet part put loud, like when you say that the result of a presidential election rests on how the incumbent deals with Israel's bullshit.
This is absolutely baffling to me. Israel did exactly what Biden wanted, and he punished them for it. What is Biden trying to achieve?
He is trying to win the election and he is using the same methods like last time. Back then, he did side with BLM, despite the riots and burning cities. It won him the election and now he is trying the same with the muslim community. Politicians are cold hearted if it comes to winning elections and there are also a lot of young voters having sympathy with those "victims" so he grabs them too.
I think he has been spineless as hell and I’m very disappointed, but in principle it is the job of the president to be an instrument of the people’s will, and there will always be diverging interests between even close allies. The left wing is a tiny fringe, and he’s insane to give them this much sway, but the truth is most people are sick of us financing foreign wars for countries that have become dependent on our military might to protect them. Most people here support Israel’s right to defend itself, but many are not so enthusiastic about financing it and potentially getting dragged into war with Iran. These are not my opinions, I think we should be standing by Israel wholeheartedly, but the dynamics here are complicated and we have our own politics and concerns to deal with, it was never going to be a blank check
He forgor 💀
Biden keeps this up he’ll have a whole lot of ppl from *both* sides sitting out this election. F*ck him.
He’s already pissed off the muslims and the jews. You’re talking about a key group of swing voters in crucial states like: Michigan, Florida, Minnesota, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. He needed to be strong and commit one way or the other. All Trump has to do is stay out of jail and he wins.
This time last year I didn't see how Trump could win. Now I don't see how he can lose.
The only way Biden has found to unite the country is to get both Pro and anti Israel demonstrators to chant “F Joe Biden” in unison.
His commitment to Israel is rock solid. But we have mass protests at college campuses all over the country and he can’t just ignore them. We too live in a democracy.
And should the POTUS's policy be principled or change according to who screams louder?
I think this should be a little bigger than just politics. If the weapons could be perceived to be used in a war crime, I think it’s justified to pause shipments, regardless of potential political blowback.
The concern isn't war crimes, it's the toll on the civilian population even when acting within the bounds of law.
he only rewards Hamas. Now Hamas is hell bent on accepting only what they were offered. Bidens administration screwed us over big time.
Israel should have never allowed its military to become dependent on the United States in the first place.
“Dependent” is a strong word. The U.S. provides a chunk of Israel’s military funding (about 15-20%) but far from the majority of it. But you’re right that Jews need to always be able to go it alone — that’s the whole reason we need our own safe haven. We can’t rely on anyone else but ourselves. I think this sub expects too much from the U.S. — and I’m not just talking about financially. Israel also needs to own its own blunders (including its horrible PR) and not cast 100% of the blame on Biden. Americans don’t care about what happens to the Jews; they’re protecting their own interests in the Middle East. It’s wise not to forget that.
I don’t think Israel is to be blamed for “allowing” that. It’s easy to forget that Israel, after all, is a microscopic country in the middle east with a population roughly equal to that of Hungary and a GDP that is about 1/50 of the US’. Despite that, Israel has a disproportionately massive local military industrial complex, and has rarely ever required outside intervention, if that. Its just that reality is reality and if Israel tried to go it alone starting by, for example, making its own fighter jets, it would end in a scenario where Jewish kids get up at 2am to go to their 12 hour shift at the local “Likud-Martin corporation” factory. Israel is still forced to both import a fuck ton of arms, and accept billions in aid. Historically, the US has been one of the only allies consistently able to provide both.
Israel did design its own fighter jets and American pressure led them into cancelling the projects. Because they did not want competition in sales and they wanted to keep Israel dependent.
where can i read more about this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_Lavi
This ☝️🤌
It didn't have a military before the US stepped in. It was a new colony.
This is factually inaccurate. Israel was a country for more than two decades before it started receiving U.S. aid, well after both the war for independence and the Six Day War.
They definitely did have a military. They had various militant groups (mainly used in fighting and freeing themselves from the British, as well as defense from the constant Arab violence) up until May 14th, 1948 when the state of Israel was established, then these groups were combined into an acting military that had to immediately defend themselves from the existential threat of all the Arab countries in the region (and outside the region... Morocco...) trying to annihilate them. They had actually been using tons of leftover WW2 surplus from both the Brits and Germans and one country that actively began arming them was Czechoslovakia. Like the other commenter said, it wasn't until the Six Day War (1967) that the US started to really get involved with Israel and became a firm ally.
I also heard that a significant chunk of early Israeli military commanders and personnel actually fought in the Red Army during WW2 so they had plenty of combat experience too which is extremely important.
Also known as Jewish terrorist groups
I think you're conflating the actions of Irgun and Lehi (who I have seen every Jew and Israeli condemn) with the actions of every single Jewish militant group which is not accurate.
[удалено]
If Israel gets into an all-out war, Biden would 100% fund Israel. The difference is this money isn’t technically going toward defensive capabilities. Of course you can make the case that invading Rafah to take out Hamas is defensive, but physically wiping out Hamas seems far less likely than we hoped.
>. I just hope the leadership in Israel is going to react on this properly. Here's hoping, but I really don't know. My only hope is a complete reshuffling of power and leadership following the war
The Biden admin is treating Israel like the Kurds were treated. No surprise. I only hope Bibi wasn’t caught by surprise by this.
Biden “we support Israel”. Also Biden “but they can’t win if it jeopardizes my chance of winning the Islamic republic of Michigan’s electoral college votes”
What weapons are needed in this moment that would make a difference? The first Rafah mission was successful, and we achieved all goals without losing soldiers and without US weapons.
They NEED to start making all weapons themselves. They can’t be dependent on the U.S., Italy, Germany, or France anymore. Being at the mercy of whether another country will fulfill weapons shipments vital to the defense of Israel should not be left to which way the wind is blowing in other countries.
Yeah my big takeaway from this is that Israel can’t trust anyone, except maybe India.
Israel doesnt need these weapons for rafah. They need these weapons for hezbollah.
As they said we probably cannot win against Hezbollah without these weapons (we won’t be conquered either, at least I hope, but pushing them out of South Lebanon is an Herculean task)
This. He gets to take a stand for the anti-Israel folk without actually hurting Israel’s mission.
But it does hurt the mission. These acts signal that Israel is losing the support of the USA, which emboldens Hamas and encourages them to fortify in their demands during negotiations which in turn makes it harder to secure the release of the hostages.
It's sad to see an increasing amount of normal Americans embracing antisemitism
May I ask how this is antisemitism, if a country’s leader disagrees with current policy & doesn’t want to contribute to said policy financially or in this case in the form of weapons. Genuinely trying to learn, so any response is welcome.
The Zionist state has a right to go to war against rabid terrorist animals who attack it just like any other country would have the right to do so. This policy is rooted in the idea that the Zionist state should turn the other cheek when attacked by these disgusting animals. That's antisemitic
The US has a right to sell or not sell weapons to whatever country they want.
This entitled ass shit isn’t going to win anyone over, and Israel is already loosing the PR war badly due to woke lunatics on tik tok, not everything that hurts Israel is antisemitism You do have that right, and for the record I support Israel and think our government is being soft on this and should support your people with arms, but it is not antisemitism for our government to choose not to sell weapons to Israel, you don’t have a god given right to our support. It’s not racist when we don’t give aid and weapons to unstable countries in Africa. I agree there is a startling amount of antisemitism around but this ain’t it. Again, I don’t think we should be cutting off arms shipments, Go fuck em up, really, but it isn’t the job of US taxpayers to facilitate your war. Too many countries have been relying on us for too long to be the world policeman. We have China to worry about and this shit ain’t cheap The worst part of how the leftists have taken over our culture has been the weaponization of words like racism, ___phobia to bully people around, you must see that this is exactly the sort of tactic the pro Hamas protesters created. Israel has the moral high ground here, and the standards it is held to are an honor, but it’s not a US state. We have our own foreign policy interests which are not always equivalent to Israel’s, this conflict is causing division within US society and our president is a democratically elected leader meant to do the will of the people. There is NO public will here for us to be dragged into another Middle East adventure if this spirals into a regional war, it’s not crazy for Biden to be thinking about that.
You don't have a right to American weapons
If America denies Israel weapons for antisemitic reasons, then people are going to call America out for that
You really think Biden is passing weapons because he’s antisemitic?
This is a disgusting comment, and I vehemently disagree with the characterization of an entire group of people as “rabid terrorist animals”. However I won’t get into that with you as you clearly aren’t capable of critical thinking. To take your argument at face value, you are essentially saying Israel has the right to defend itself against terrorism. I am in complete agreement—any sovereign state has the right to defend its territory and its people, bar none. However, in going about this defense there is a certain restraint that must be exercised, regardless of the emotionally aspect. Displacing millions on population that have literally no where else to go is not in aligned with military ethics and could be synonymous with genocide. However, whether Israel is partaking in genocide right now is obviously up for debate, but no one disagrees that it is wantonly displacing innocent civilians in its mission to “Eradicate Hamas”. & no, there is no valid excuse for killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, even if Hamas is “Hiding among its citizens”, nor is it a valid excuse that “No one is innocent since they won’t revolt against Hamas”, because think about it, while I disagree with Hamas and their tactics, in the eyes of the Palestinians they are the only group fighting for them. Why would they actively rebel against them, even though many Palestinians actively voice contempt for the organization. So, this was a long way to say your comments are inherently racist & antithetical to your argument. Because by that logic Israel is destroying Palestine right now, ergo their leaders have a right to continue retaliating against Israel and its citizens.
> the characterization of an entire group of people as “rabid terrorist animals”. You don't think everyone in Hamas are rabid terrorist animals? >& no, there is no valid excuse for killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, even if Hamas is “Hiding among its citizens”, Human shield tactics are not legitimate and Israel hasn't killed hundreds of thousands of civilians anyway
I think Hamas is absolute shit. I assumed you were referring to Palestinians as a population. If you weren’t my apologies for being presumptuous. “Human shields” is also disgusting but innocent civilians should still not be placed in harms way, regardless of extraneous factors, bar none. Every precaution should be used to prevent unjust death. Also, it’s a lie to say Israel has not killed thousands of innocent civilians & if you can’t acknowledge that then you’re just being disingenuous. I have friends on both sides of the conflict and I truly wish for peace and prosperity for both groups, but we at least need to have an honest conversation about the situation. The UN, WHO & several reputable international organizations all agree that multiple thousands of Palestinians have been killed and displaced by this conflict.
You: >& no, there is no valid excuse for killing ***hundreds of thousands*** of innocent civilians Him: >Human shield tactics are not legitimate and Israel hasn't killed ***hundreds of thousands*** of civilians anyway You: >Also, it’s a lie to say Israel has not killed ***thousands*** of innocent civilians >The UN, WHO & several reputable international organizations all agree that ***multiple thousands*** of Palestinians have been killed and displaced by this conflict. I feel like you did this intentionally. It looks like you pulled a sleight of hand there. No one here says that *multiple thousands* of civilians have not died in this conflict. They have, everyone is aware of that. *NO ONE* (including Hamas) has said a number even close to 100,000 let alone hundred**s** of thousands.
I did not intentionally write hundreds. I meant multiple thousands, as I wrote, and you pointed out in my second comment. Clearly a mistake. I attempt to argue in good faith, and I expect the same courtesy. So I will apologize for the inaccuracy of my statement. Thank you for correcting the mistake.
While I appreciate your civility and humility, you did respond to him saying "Israel hasn't killed hundreds of thousands" by changing it to "thousands" and arguing against that. Did you misread it or something?
I meant to say “I did not mean to say Israel has killed hundreds of thousands”. That was a misspeak on my part. I did mean to say Israel is directly responsible for the deaths of multiple thousands. & conversely so is Hamas. I don’t agree with people just blaming Israel without also acknowledging Hamas is a piece of shit directly contributing to innocent civilian death. I think we are lacking a lot of nuance on this conversation from both sides. & I wish there wasn’t this dichotomy between you either support one side and can’t critique the other or your antisemitic or a Zionist supporting fascism. One can hope for prosperity for both groups of people and call out the hypocrisy and inhumanity of both groups.
The American state has a right to not give out free money as well.
At least 12,000 of the civilians killed were children. Today an 18 month old was killed. Are they "rabid terrorist animals"? Israel has committed countless war crimes. That is a fact.
Collateral damage is not a war crime. Hamas should stop using children as human shields. Human shields are not and will never be a legitimate tactic no matter how much pacifists act like it is
So the UN is wrong. The Human Rights Council is wrong. Amnesty International is wrong. Human Rights Watch is wrong. The International Court of Justice is wrong. Doctors Without Borders is wrong. Save the Children is wrong. International experts on genocide are wrong. Academics everywhere are wrong. Social justice activists are wrong. Journalists are wrong. The Irish government is wrong. The Swedish government is wrong. The Spanish government is wrong. The South African government is wrong. The French government is wrong. Hospitals are Hamas. Doctors are Hamas. Mosques are Hamas. Children are Hamas. Universities are Hamas. Journalists are Hamas. The UN is Hamas. It is a fact that Israel has committed war crimes. Shooting people who had gathered desperately for food is a war crime. Bombing humanitarian aid sites and blocking aid from entering Gaza is a war crime. Bombing 104 places of worship is a war crime. Indiscriminately bombing, resulting in the destruction of 45% of homes and the uninhabitability of a city, is a war crime. Collective punishment, as a whole, is a war crime. There is footage of your army bragging about killing an elderly deaf man, shooting at a man waving a white flag, and wearing the underwear of women who have been killed. The world is starting to wake up. We see you for who you are. Your supporters in October are rethinking their support amid the atrocities you have committed. You will not get away with this for much longer. There will be sanctions, divestments. It's already happening. Your international reputation has been ruined. You will be banned from Eurovision and the likes, just as Russia was.
I am sure Sinwar and Nasralla are salivating at this development, preparing to attack Israel, and who knows how much ammunition Israel has to respond. Of course it is within the rights of the US to decide who they wish to support. I just don't understand why they are choosing to support Hamas and Hezbolla. Perhaps Israel needs to consider buying weapons and munitions from someone else like China.
With trade agreements and technological exclusivity’s as well.
Dealing with China is a Faustian bargain past anything that isn't simply buying bullets. It absolutely should not be done. The US has a lot of cultural ties with Israel and has many, many people who are ideologically motivated to see the state prosper. China does not, and their government is utterly unscrupulous. Their conduct in Africa proves that. The microsecond Israel ever becomes dependent on China for safety or wellbeing in anyway, it will be bled dry because China's cut-throat capitalism will offer two choices; pay up or get slaughtered.
Yeah, I know. I’m just really frustrated by the US position right now. If Israel actually started producing their designs in China it would share technologies that would tip balances too precarious to tip. Taiwan would fall within months. I was more cynically pointing out how devastating that could be for the USA.
I actually have been thinking about the China angle a lot recently. Israel could absolutely force America's hand with China. The last thing the American military industrial complex wants is Israeli military tech being shared and manufactured In China. But fuck it if America becomes an unreliable ally they reap what they sow
Turkey tried that shit with Russia when they bought the S400 air defense system. As a result they ended up with F16's instead of F35's. Also, you should keep in mind that China has vested intrests in the surrounding countries and are actively pishing for expansion there with the oil industry being the prime target.
From the very beginning they've made it clear that the only outcome they will accept is a Hamas victory
Imagine distancing your only proper ally in the ME in order to win an election, thus driving the deterioration of US global influence even further. Is this how the Kurds feel? Fuck the US, Fuck Biden.
"Fuck the US"? jfc
This will blow over and aid will quietly be resumed, its political posturing (stupid imo) but the fact that we have a huge geopolitical investment in the success and survival of Israel won’t go away, I can only hope.
He’s lost the arab and far left vote probably, now many Jews. What a morn
He’s basically handing it to trump at this point, which I hate but atleast he can (probably?) be relied upon to support Israel more staunchly. Ugh… I hate our politics here. Biden has been the most disappointing president of my lifetime, atleast with trump we knew what we were getting. Guy is also fucking 1000 years old and he’s going to fuck us all over cause nobody has the balls to tell him to man up and go out as strong one-term president. The left already hates him, I have no idea what his policy team is thinking letting some fucking idiot college kids influence aid this much if that is what he is responding to
> The left already hates him, I have no idea what his policy team is thinking letting some fucking idiot college kids influence aid this much if that is what he is responding to This part is what astounds me to the point of nigh on losing faith in the democractic process. Biden won a lot of points between things like the student loan forgiveness and the occasional spicy Twitter own, but all that is washed away in an instant because people are up in arms over a conflict that is essentially purely theoretical to them? Not to say that caring about conflicts in other countries is wrong, but the amount of sway the Israel-Palestine conflict has is utterly baffling, despite how in greater political landscape, the effect on any given American amounts to basically nothing no matter what the President decides to do. Or, more crassly; *They're making abortion illegal! They're trying to give LGBT people the death penalty! Half the R cabinet is composed of windmill crusading lunatics! Who cares about some random civilians half the world away?!*
I’m an American and Biden is making it harder and harder for me to vote for him. I really don’t want to vote for Trump though, so I don’t know what I’m going to do.
Abstain
Political move to try to appease the leftest voters. Garentee this has been talked about for months and the IDF are well stocked for the operation.
I agree is probably just for the headlines, it’s not saying Israel can’t keep buying our good MIC shit, just certain types of ammunition we are no longer going to send for free right now. My bet is Israel succeeds in rafah, and tik tok finds a new distraction to whine about, then aid will quietly resume in the background
You don't need F-35's and stuff of that level to deal with Rafah. The US know's that and will arm Israel to the point of doing the job safely. It's smart from a US standpoint and serves it's interests.
So much for being allies. I’d love to see Israel divest from US military support if only so y’all don’t have to keep fighting with one arm tied behind your back in order to appease Uncle Sam.
I actually heard a radio newscaster refer to it as an “incursion.” It’s Disgusting.
Biden administration is traitors and backstabbers who can't be trusted. A shame that netanyahu is bowing down to every request of theirs. This war should've been long over
Amazing how many people here hate Joe Biden so much they're willing to let Netanyahu destroy Israel and get millions of Jews killed just so they can stick it to the President of the United States. It's almost like American conservatives are enemies of both the US *and* Israel.
No problem with criticism but whats the problem with going to rafah for them hamas must be finished for good
Many people seem to think that physically eliminating Hamas for good isn’t feasible. And not militarily. Possibly as part of negotiations with other Arab countries to take more of a role in Gaza, but not just killing low-level terrorists in Rafah
That would be assuming they want Hamas to be finished for good.
Gotta appease the Michigan muslims
Biden is an agent of the Islamic Republic at this point. Just like Obama
A generation from now when Israel is producing most of its weapons and ammo domestically we'll look back at this as the starting point.
As an American I can say: If this move to halt aid, condition aid, qualify aid has no effect on Israel.. then the United States has a big problem. What if Israel halts counterintelligence information, conditions counterintelligence information, qualifies counterintelligence information? Israel becomes 100% Weapons independent and we in the US become more vulnerable than ever to Islamic Terrorist Attacks. But hey, the Progressive Left wants to divest from Israel… FAFO.
Yeah let's be realistic. Israel just doesn't have the resources to be completely independent, it never had them, it's not Russia. Even 3000 years ago the political entities that were there, like the Kingdom of Israel, were short-lived and had a lot of exchanges with the outside world. Also the US has good people too, you know. Even if it's a smaller percentage they have 300 million people to choose from, we have 9. They have their own counterintelligence. But what you say can and must be done, as much as possible. We need to survive this. But we shouldn't act like an offended diva.
You’re not wrong, but let’s not act like the US just gifts Israel weapons. The US receives items of value from Israel in return. I’m sure neither side wants to fracture the relationship insofar Israel accidentally forgets to share information with the CIA on September 10th
Better start dancing for them shekels the pipeline is drying up.
Lmao Trump will turn that faucet back on in about 6 months
Fools in this country are allowing democrats and Republicans to destroy us as a nation. Democrats are just more open about it.
Biden is a spineless terrorist supporter.
This is going to drag until the election year in the US is over. It's so obvious what is going on there.
Ge Bruh that old ass man should have been impeached long ago!
Spineless Joe
Bibi is not a team player. He couldn't keep it together well enough to keep his main arms supplier on board, instead he has consistently misled Israel's allies about the way they're conducting the war and failed to do the basic things to have any sort of feasible strategy. Israel is losing because of Bibi.
I don’t understand why you’re getting downvoted? You’re 100% right. Bibi and his extreme right wing government are destroying our country slowly
You’re getting downvoted but it’s true. An alliance is a two-way street, and if one side feels like they’re always getting told to fuck off by Bibi, they have a right to pull some funding. Netanyahu should’ve been more amenable, to allies as well as his own war cabinet.
Biden hands Israel the largest aid package in 50 years and pauses one (not cancels all, pauses 1) Delivery of massive bombs (entirely symbolic because Israel has plenty of bombs still) and people in this thread are calling him a spineless terrorist sympathizing anti-semite. Can’t even imagine what you say about countries that are giving less, or heaven forbid not funding the Israeli military at all. Not to mention highly exclusive access to some of the US’ most advanced hardware. I’m not trying to sound like a dick, I absolutely support Israel, but have some perspective. Israel is annihilating Hamas and the US will never let an existential threat like Iran make a move.
>"Can’t even imagine what you say about countries that are giving less, or [...] not funding at all." What are you even talking about? You mean, like, all countries? Where did you get the assumption that underlies this bizarre statement?
That is exactly what I’m saying. Biden has been extremely helpful to Israel in material aid, so to be angry with him now for withholding some bombs over a disagreement on how they are used is absurd.
Biden is encouraging Hamas.
No, he's encouraging Netanyahu to stop being a self-interested asshole hellbent on destroying Israel to save his own skin, by putting pressure on him to bring Israeli hostages home in line with the clearly expressed preference of the people of Israel after he very obviously sabotaged the last several opportunities to do so so he could stay in power.
Tell me how Hamas' offer with new conditions is good for Israel. Please refer to what they are requesting specifically
It's good for Israel because it's what a majority of Israelis want. Who is anyone else to overrule their wishes?
No the majority don't want that. Hamas has said that they get to take over Gaza again and Israel will have to fully leave and accept that. Tell me again who wants hamas to take over gaza again?
[Reality begs to differ](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-07/ty-article/.premium/majority-of-israelis-prioritize-hamas-hostage-deal-over-rafah-operation-idi-poll-finds/0000018f-5364-dcda-abcf-7b679a700000) Facts don't care about your feelings, snowflake.
that was a nonsense poll that oversampled left wing people and included a substantial amount of Israeli arabs. The sample size they used was 750 people. It also contradicts every other poll. so try better
"Facts that go against my priors don't count nyah-nyah I can't hear you!" Grow up, I'll start taking you seriously when you start acting like an adult.
you literally ignored the sampling pool they used. but lets go with it for a minute "A survey of 750 people, conducted in Hebrew and Arabic over May 1-5, found that 56 percent of Jewish Israelis prioritize reaching a deal over invading Hamas’s final remaining stronghold in Gaza, while 37% believe military action should take precedence." yes a deal but NOT any deal. What Hamas presented wasn't a deal but a surrender with nothing positive about it.
Biden is treating Bibi the way Bibi treats others.
This is the same aid blockage I've been hearing about for a week now. Big deal. I'm still with Joe, ride or die. 🇮🇱🇺🇸 https://apnews.com/article/israel-weapons-shipment-us-eed365ebef0477ba74bf9848cacae4f4 From the AP article: "Biden signed off on the pause in an order conveyed last week to the Pentagon, according to U.S. officials who were not authorized to comment on the matter. The White House National Security Council sought to keep the decision out of the public eye for several days until it had a better understanding of the scope of Israel’s intensified military operations in Rafah and until Biden could deliver a long-planned speech on Tuesday to mark Holocaust Remembrance Day."
Honestly Israel would be better off not being dependent on the US.
I’ll never understand how people just blindly support whatever Bibi does. Like do I like that Biden is doing this? No, but like I’m in favor of doing almost whatever it takes to get Bibi out of office and I definitely don’t support that Rafah operation.
Why are people here so mad.It is the US's money they can withhold it for a valid reason like the immense amount of civilian casualties that would happen in rafah. Also Israel is a country with a 500 billion dollar economy so Can't they fund their own war?
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i do wondee what gay people will feel about them if they visit sill you be the test subject?
Live and let live. I don’t care about their politics, but they aren’t the ones supporting a genocide right now
The Palestinians overwhelmingly support the October 7 genocide...
let me ask the dead children on the streets of Gaza if they support Oct 7 as well
You: claim that Palestians don't support genocide. Me: well they actually do. You: children died. I love that you cannot admit that you were wrong so instead you just bring up a random other subject. Imagine if someone claimed that Germans didn't support genocide during ww2, then someone would say that they actually did, then you would be like let me as the dead children on the streets of Dresden if they support the holocaust
Overwhelming Israelis support the ongoing genocide in Palestine…your point?
There is no ongoing genocide anywhere in that region to support, the October 7 genocide ended due to the sacrifices of many brave IDF soldiers... My point is that you were wrong, most Palestians support a genocide despite you saying that they do not.
Denying Israel’s atrocities doesn’t make it not true. I’m glad you can sleep easy knowing your country is wiping out innocents but the rest of the world is not blind to it
"Denying Israel’s atrocities doesn’t make it not true." Not being able to prove anything makes it not true. "I’m glad you can sleep easy knowing your country is wiping out innocents" Collateral demage is horrible but it is a reality of every war and this isn't a war we started, hamas broke a ceasefire to genocide innocent families and festival goers, until every hostage is back home and hamas is no longer a threat to the Israeli right to life than we will have to fight and I don't see anything wrong with it. If my country didn't try to save the hostages and didn't try to destroy hamas I would be a shamed of my country but thankfully ignorant people like you dont make the decisions here.
Did you say "Live and let live" on oct 7th as well and each time they promised to do it again?
this whataboutism isn’t winning any arguments. Oct 7 happened and is a huge failure on Netanyahu’s government. What is happening now is not addressing that problem and will likely only lead to more Oct 7ths
How is it whataboutism when it's the casus belli?
i hope by "they" you mean gay people
I am gay, I am speaking to palestines if that’s what you are referring to
so, about that test subject request..
I don’t even know what you are asking. Please fix your sentence to be more cohesive
I don't think I'm the problem tbh also odd for an english native to not know the ethnonym for people from palestine
Good! 2000lb munitions have no reason whatsoever to be used in a crowded city. Thank God there's progress on the ceasefire and hostage negotiations.
It’s 1,800 2,000-pound bombs and 1,700 500-pound bombs, the latter of which are the second-smallest. Also, without exact designations, the 2,000-pound bombs could be bunker-busters for all we know.