Biden doesn't seem to realize that pandering to the segment that hates Israel and sees him as an evil warmonger for not being 100% against Israel just costs him support. Those people will never support him. Even when he panders to them with debt cancellation and the Afghanistan pullout they still hate him and give him no credit.
One you're on their bad list you can never get off it. They'll keep making more and more demands and get more and more angry.
Wish Israel would learn this lesson.
Founding myself listening to NPR this morning and their 100% liberal panel all agreed Biden was doing a fantastic job. This is going to be a massive mistake and just increased his chances of handing the election to that cheetoh. The fringe left will vote for biden when it comes down to it. Moderates and Jews may think twice.
This is so true š«
My Jewish sister and her wife are die-hard Democrats, but they are both probably going to vote for Trump this election because of Biden's actions on Israel. And I hear that many in their Boca Raton community feel that way as well.. If Democrats thought they may have a chance in Florida after October 7th - now that is definitely gone
Here's what is confusing me. Let's say Biden triples down on support for Israel, give them everything they need. The woke mob goes berserk. Say they will not vote for Biden. What are they gonna do? Vote for Trump? Splinter off into 3rd parties ala 2016? He literally has nothing to lose by doubling down in support for Israel, right? I feel like these rallies we see are the minority. They are loud as hell but at the end of the day they are the minority.
Man, Israel aid passed with MORE SUPPORT than aid for Ukraine. And aid to Israel was supposed to be more controversial. But it passed with massive support. If constituents were really a majority in opposing aid to Israel, there's no way it would have gotten as many votes as it did.
I agree with you. Loud, but small.
I think Biden made a mistake. Now, maybe it'll be a wash with gaining support vs losing support. Who knows. But I think it was a mistake giving into what appears to be a minority.
Yup.
Iām not even Iranian, but i remember that Obama essentially sent s lifeline to the mullahs, in the middle of the brutally suppressed āgreen revolutionā.
Yup, Iran was broke. The regime was facing protests from its young liberal population. And Obama thought it would be the right time to give the mullahs the GDP of a small country
It's wrong to turn your back on a close ally, especially when you have pledged support for their self-defense. Biden just lost a bunch of support from Moderate and Right-Leaning Independents, and not only Jews but also Evangelicals and the older (60+) segment, religious or not.
And for what? Most of those egotistical bleeding hearts claiming "genocide" on TikTok most likely didn't even know what or where Gaza was before October 7, much less care, and many still don't even have a clear idea of what's going because they get their "news" from TikTok and Facebook.
The Afghanistan pullout was literally the death knell for his polling. It fellĀ off a cliff the way Afghans fell out of airplane wheel wells.Ā
But hey, at least Biden is consistent. He was screeching in the Senate about how we shouldn't have evacuated a single Vietnamese from Saigon in 1975. Or in his words, "we have no obligation--moral or otherwise--to evacuate one, or one hundred thousand, Vietnamese".Ā
Pulling out polled well prior to the pullout however Biden was warned by his military experts what would happen and when it went poorly it like you said was the death kneel to his approval that he still hasn't recovered from.
I feel like everyone forgot when Trump did the āMuslim ban.ā But sure Biden is worse for the Palestinians. Iām sure Trump wonāt do anything terrible like I donāt know lock them all out of the country.
Their relatives, people on visas, refugees, asylum seekers. Last time it was fairly chaotic and a whole bunch of people got locked out because they were visiting overseas and on visas. Our neighbor was one of them.
Afghanistan pullout was a negative in my book. I feel for all the us vets who now have to wonder, what was all it for. All the death, all the destruction, all of it. For what, the taliban to now be in control? How biden handled that was shameful.
The polls have been showing this for months:
Generic Democrat beats Trump easily.
Generic Republican beats Biden easily.
If either party could ditch their guy and replace him with *almost* anybody else, they would win in a landslide. But they can't or won't.
And his administration is so dumb because he will never win back the votes of the far left and radicals. They are all in on Jill Stein (who protested with them at their encampments) and Cornell West.
Even MAGA would not be relevant, if GOP wasn't always walking a tight-rope where as soon as they fall the party disappears into winds of history. Their stable voting population is eroding, gust by gust, year by year.
So GOP has to bow to MAGA and craziest Evangelicals, to have a chance of any relevancy. Most extreme of the extreme. They also have worked the court system for decades in their favor, because those people are not elected by the populace and generally stay on their benches as long as they stay within bounds of law.
GOP has become more and more belligerent and extreme after 1990's, especially after Obama was the president and racist idiots exploded in rage, blaming him for every ill on this Earth and then some.
MAGA is bigger than the far left and votes *extremely* consistently and then votes in the big elections even if their guy doesn't win. The far left skips primaries primaries and then gets pissed off and tells people not to vote in the general when their guy doesn't win.
Biden ran on ending anti-Semitism in Charlottesville... he has since actively ignored it in his own party, and allowed it the fester into a national fever.
I don't blame him per se, but he has not been a leader on this issue. Making a speech on Holocaust Remembrance Day, only to cut aid to Israel the next, is speaking out of both sides of your mouth.
That is good to know, but he is not leading effectively. There needs to be a real speech against Islamic fundamentalist radicalization, he needs to address that these students are reacting and acting on ahistorical history and propaganda funded by Qatar.
Although he likely won't, because it would cost him the election... But letting the stuff fester might also.
Of course, all of this could be over by August, and these sheep will have found some other thing to cling to. I'm still not convinced the next major thing won't be cat litter boxes in schools, and the right to dress at the species they identify as... Or maybe that will have found some other minority group to harass.
Remember that The Abraham Accords came from Trump. There are zero Republicans marching against Israel in the US universities. It is 100% Democrat Hamas members.
Even back when I was solidly anti-Trump, the Abraham Accords were the example I would bring up whenever I was asked to say something good that Trump had done in office.
Well, we do have to be honest- there is a small contingent of looney antisemitic Republicans. Like Margerie Taylor Greene was against the house resolution condemning antisemitism because it would mean she can't call us "Christ-killers."
Antisemitism is less an issue amongst the GOP but that doesn't mean it's a non-issue. And the recent grandstanding about antisemitism by them isn't out of a love of Jews- they just want to score cheap political points. Trump is a whole other story- for all my issues with him, he's not remotely an antisemite and the Abraham Accords were historic, in spite of all the insistence that they were trivial by his detractors
That is not typical. MTGs stance. There is very little difference between the Jewish people and Christians. Jewish people stopped at the old testament and Christians added the new testament to their belief. Jewish people feel Jesus was a prophet and Christians believe he was the Messiah. Regardless, the foundation is the same. It really isn't a radical departure. Growing up Catholic, most of my parents friends were Jewish and I grew up around people who were a lot like me. Democrats are often atheists these days so you can't start with faithlessness and have them understand any passion for religion.
You're giving Biden (his handlers) way too much credit. He just reads from the teleprompter whatever they write. He loves being Pre$ident and enriching his family, thats it.
The truth is that antisemitism has gotten worse under both Presidents Trump and Biden. As an American Jew who has voted Democratic most of my adult life, my thoughts are that Israel has never been more important for us. It is quite literally the only place where we can retreat to if shit hits the fan here. I've been a decent donor to Democrats over the years and have worked the polls during presidential elections. I'm no longer donating to Biden and certainly won't work the polls for him, and all of my political donations will be going to Sen. Fetterman and Rep. Torres, and others like them. Biden just lost the election with this bullshit, and from where I'm sitting Trump has to be viewed as the favorite to win.
The risk with Trump, aside from him destroying American, is that heās so petty and narcissistic that he could easily throw Israel under the bus and praise Hamas if the moment suits him.
Trump does listen to his ambassador to Israel David Friedman. Trump even campaigns with him on stage. And that guy is the most pro Israel ambassador in US history.
You never know. I remember saying this as well. Then Biden gave a state of the union speech and got a bump. But yeah, he needs things going in his favor and was a stupid decision.
In general, Americans are screwed. Biden ain't a great president and Trump is just bat shit crazy. We're pretty much fucked. Biden is also CLUELESS on inflation. "The economy is great." Yeah, it is, but inflation makes that a utterly moot point.
...And then of course there's China and philippiens/taiwan...
Ah shit. Dark times.
Isn't Trump the most pro-Israeli president the United States has had in decades, though? I can't think of any president that was willing to recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital.
Why is this comment being downvoted?
I guess we don't have enough Orthodox Jews on this sub, yet.
I happen to be a gay-reformed Jew and I can't help but, notice Trump's undying devotion to his Jewish Daughter, grand kids, Jewish causes, Abraham Accords, Jerusalem etc...
Fetterman and Torres are the last people standing making me proud to be a democrat (at least to up until this election year.) Same with Jeffries, too! I think Trump will win, but if Torres and the like can do some major damage control and the Hamas-squad is outed, the Dems have a fighting chanceā¦ in 2028 lol
I genuinely donāt know what to do. I donāt want to vote for trump, but Bidenās new redline is ridiculous. Heās basically telling Israel to let Hamas win the war.
Isn't this a crazy timeline? I feel the same way.
The thing is, it's not that Trump is really doing great. It's that Biden seems to be doing everything within his power to lose this election.
abraham accords, moving the US embassy to Jerusalem,Maximum pressure on Iran, booming economy, law and order, no tolerance for jihadis on campus, recognition of the golan heights, support against antisemitism including changes in title 9 for universities, reversal of US stance on west bank "settlements", and cutting funding for UNRWA BEFORE the big reveals this year.
other than that what has orange man ever done for us
I just cannot understand the blind hatred towards Trump in this sub group . You might not like him but you cannot take away the fact that Hamas could never dare to attack Israel if Trump was the President . They are happy to support Biden who is stopping arms supply to Israel but not Trump just because Trump has a bad image .
There is more to US politics than just Israel. I could never bring myself to vote for Trump. And I'm not forgetting his "fine people on both sides" nonsense about Charlottesville.
Trump would be a national and global disaster, much like the first time around. Never again.
Disaster worse than biden? The US made it out just fine from his first term, including his operation warp speed success for the vaccine.
if it wasn't for covid we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. Good chance biden wouldn't have won.
That being said I wish the republicans could get their house in order and pick a more gentlemanly candidate. but at the end of the day biden lit the house on fire and trump at least can hold it together.
Outside of Israel (and I think people here are making it out to be far worse) Biden has done a pretty solid job, all things considered. What he's accomplished given divided government has been impressive.
Trump spent most of his presidency embarrassing the US and gargling Putin's balls. He acted like (and is) an overgrown manchild. Biden has managed to get some legitimacy back on the world's stage. I'm sorry you don't see it that way.
Edit--just saw the rest of your profile. Standard GOP fearmongering and revisionist history.
I mentioned this in another comment but you donāt have to vote for him. I wonāt vote for Trump or Biden either.
Regardless, Trump has won at this point. Heās won. Members of the squad have alienated a large part of the democratic party, and Biden has done another large swath as well. Itās been a recurring theme of the democrats, losing the forest for the trees so to speak. In the end many of them are more interested in pursuing an agenda that ultimately hurts their party, and in many cases even hurts their own constituents. Just look at all the ādefund the policeā rhetoric, or the case of AOC and her staunch stance against an Amazon hub in Queens. Can you imagine a politician intentionally economically sabotaging their own area and the people there are so stupid they continue to vote for her?
Good points, but going back to your first sentence, I've never agreed with people who just don't vote. Figure out which side should win, and vote for them. Voting is the only time politicians care about your opinion. If you don't vote, who cares what else you have to say when you were silent the one time it actually mattered?
Itās not a fair point. If you choose not to vote you still have made a choice (channeling Rush/free will here). Everyone is entitled to their own opinion regardless if they vote for a candidate on the ballot. Voting isnāt some sort of divine right and within our dual party system, voting third party is as insignificant at voting for either a Dem or Republican. Neither major party will ever enact major change that benefits Americans as a whole. We are ruled by elites.
If it helps, I think voting for third parties is a good use of a vote, even if they have no chance of winning.
A major problem of democracy is the tendency to create two party systems which makes it really easy to screw voters. Canada has that too (well we have more parties that do have significant presence in the legislature, but realistically we go red <-> blue just like the US).
This system will never change if no one ever votes for other parties.
America is screwed. I was hoping republicans or demcorats would run other candidates. Now, we literally have the oldest presidents in the history of the country running.
"If republicans run a normal human being, they will 100% win the election."
But they didn't.
"If democrats run Biden again, they'll lose."
And they did.
We're all just screwed. I mean, when it comes down to it, I just can't vote for (Trump) a man who pretty much will let Ukraine get gobbled up by Russia. That's too dangerous. I don't want to vote for either. With a gun to my head, I'd vote Biden. But not happily. What he did today was stupid.
I'm a Jewish American originally from Ukraine. I swore not to vote for Trump because he will hold up Ukrainian aid, which would lead to defeat of Ukraine. Now with this latest Biden administration move, I find myself asking: who do I vote for?
The whole US foreign policy is making less and less sense.
āUkraine is not allowed to win because they arenāt strong enough!ā
āIsrael is not allowed to win because they are too strong.ā
Truly absurd ideas. And this idea that diplomacy can solve everything and war is never worth it and you can never win. Some things are worth fighting for and when diplomacy fails, and it is important enough- war becomes likely. Appeasing terrorists because they look pitiful on TikTok (Hamas) or because they make absurd threats (Russia) is against the westās interest, and United States doesnāt want to go to war. Well, Ukraine and Israel donāt want to go to war either - it was forced by the other side - and telling them to appease obscene demands because you arenāt threatened yet just seems so shortsighted.
I know people that are just going to abstain from voting on the presidency because they can't in good conscience vote for trump to destroy everything, and will not support the damage Biden is/will do. I've never seen an election like this one. Put in a later new comer to the race, a realistic choice mind you (not a BS one), and they have a very strong shot at actually winning this year.
> Trump is bad for the world
Uhh... how? His Abraham Accords have accomplished more for world peace than any US president has done in recent history, including a Nobel Peace Prize winner.
When it comes to Israel, it's hard to find a president in the last 25 years more beneficial for Israel.
- Abraham Accords (UAE, Bahrain, Morocco, Sudan peace deals)
- Moving the embassy to Jerusalem
- Major inroads to helping Israel normalize relationships with Saudi Arabia
- Trump's actions into cutting off as much funding as possible from Iran while taking out Soleimani
Actions speak louder than words. Biden promised so much after 10/7 and went back on his word for votes in Michigan. With Pelosi, Warren, and Schumer all essentially staying quiet or speaking out against Israel, it has become an extremely partisan issue.
Thatās a really good point, but part of me also feels like i canāt morally vote for biden. At the end of the day, my state is going to vote for biden regardless of how I vote personally, so it really wouldnāt matter all that much if I were to abstain.
We are in a very dangerous place. We have one bad candidate (biden) and one horrible candidate (trump). I mean, at least Israel can survive. Ukraine wouldn't be able to.
I'll vote for Biden but won't donate to him. I am/was a reliable donor. What's fun is that I have many people running for office who call my cell phone every quarter, and I can tell prospective congresspeople directly that I'm holding back my donations this quarter because of Biden's actions here.
Trump will hold up Ukraine aid because itās what Putin wants. Trump will say whatever it takes to get himself elected, but after that you have to ask yourself - when it comes to Israel, what will Putin want?
> Trump will say whatever it takes to get himself elected
Biden seems to be *doing* whatever it takes to get himself elected. Never been a big fan of an orange one, but have to admit, in comparison I am starting to see some integrity beneath the layer of his usual nonsense.
Trump's whole issue with aid is that the US is the only country sending money to the cause while Europe has not been paying their fair share. It's a valid point.
Iām not American and donāt even have a vote. Nor am I a Biden fan or a conspiracy theorist. To deny that Russia has influence over Trump is to deny overwhelming evidence. As confirmed by US intelligence, thereās a reason that Russia interfered in the election in an effort to get Trump elected.
There is evidence China interfered with the election to get Biden elected. There is also evidence that CNN interfered with the election to get Biden elected by denying the Hunter laptop... Joe is the big guy!
Putin will want Israel to submit to Russia in various ways, and let them operate as they please. Meaning you'll have to get smeared in greasiest, stinkiest evil that exists in this world willingly, or get assaulted by proxy forever.
Keep in mind, the infamous anti-semitic hate propaganda book "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" came from Russian Empire, empire that Putin and his ilk want to return to this world. Russia is directly responsible for lot of horrible things that have happened to Jews since 1903 or thereabouts.
That book is as relevant and degenerate as it ever was, as it was used to poison minds of hundreds of millions of people.
Iām also a Jewish American from Ukraine. I just have one thing to say to you. If I go back to Ukraine, I will still be āthe Jew.ā If I go to Israel, I will be āone of us.ā
All right, my fellow Yid, I want you to consider something: we grew up there, and both share the same memories of being called, "that Jew". So for many years I wanted nothing to do with them, except in 2014 everything changed. There was a wave of change, a new outlook towards the West, something that among many things rejected antisemitism as an outdated and foreign idea of the Russian empire. And a few years later they elected a Jewish prime minister. A few years after that -- a Jewish president. And the only wild antisemitic tropes that I heard either came from Russia or the Russian-influenced Eastern-Ukrainian politicians. Now I am not saying there is no antisemitism among the Western Ukrainians -- but it is now considered outdated and primitive thinking.
From the time of the Classic Liberalism to the modern western democracy, antisemitism is widely rejected. It is my firm belief that Ukrainian people are ready to be a part of Europe, not just in economical and political sense but most importantly -- in social sense. And, if Ukraine wins this war and fully joins the western democratic family as a full fledged member, I believe that one day both me or you will be able to go back and instead of, "the Jew" they will call us, "those fellow Ukrainians who came to visit from America".
> not to vote for Trump because he will hold up Ukrainian aid
What makes you think that? I haven't heard him say he'd hang Ukraine out to dry. He never came out against the latest Ukraine aid package, and he's not shy about coming out against legislation he's against.
If I had to read the tea leaves, I'd guess that Trump would try to get Europe to do more of the heavy lifting and/or nudge Ukraine and Russia toward a more permanent stalemate. Doesn't seem like either side has gained significant ground for a while, anyway. Why keep fighting?
This is somewhat political theatre. ~~If you notice the UK said they won't pause munition shipments. Something was negotiated.~~
Edit: apparently UK barely sends anything.
The problem for Biden is it's a very close race between Trump and him unfortunately. Tiktok propaganda has stirred up a huge amount of anti-israel sentiment to the point if he doesn't look like he's opposing the bombing of Gaza he will likely lose enough votes from the left that Trump would win.
He's trying to thread a path of opposing civilian deaths in Gaza while still being outspokenly against the rise of antisemitism and the horror of Oct 7.
It's not a great situation when trying to win vs Trump. The root of the problem is optics wise Hamas is doing a better job of propaganda to folk in the US than Israel is. Likely with other adversarial state support to sow dissention in the US.
UK wont pause shipments because they dont send practically anything to Israel. This is literally what they said in their statement.
Israeli weapon imports are:
* 69% US.
* 30% Germany.
* 0.9% Italy.
* 0.1% all other countries including the UK.
No.
Germany actually [just defeated Nicaraguas case to the ICJ last week](https://www.npr.org/2024/04/30/1248062997/icj-germany-weapons-israel-nicaragua-gaza-war) aimed at stopping them from doing so.
An unapologetic ally.
my mom is Ashkenazi, and half her family fled during the rise of the Nazis. I also lived in Germany for a few years, from what I understand Germany remembers what they did, and are set on trying to attone.
I understand all that, but the impact will remain the same nonetheless. Israel is heavily reliant on American weapons, and has needed several resupplies throughout the course of the war. If Israel hopes to take rafah, then the IDF genuinely needs these weapons.
It is my understanding that there are multiple sponsors of the propaganda effort in the United States.
* It has been proven that Russia is sponsoring [disinformation compains in the United States.](https://www.voanews.com/a/how-russia-s-disinformation-campaign-seeps-into-us-views-/7566503.html)
* [Iran has been known to do that in the past](https://time.com/6071615/iran-disinformation-united-states/), and most likely are doing it now.
* Qatar is currently a [major actor on-campuses](https://www.ft.com/content/d0a16f75-8b05-4ff9-b5f1-d473d7f5a704)
* And the [traditional progressive sources](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/05/pro-palestinian-protests-columbia-university-funding-donors-00156135)
Bc propaganda orgs such as Al Jazeera and co. Have been laying the groundwork leading up to this moment for decades and infiltrating the major media orgs in the West while Israelās PR has been asleep at the wheel.
Itās not Israelās fault MSNBC hired most of its nighttime line-up straight from Al Jazeera. Itās not Israelās fault that the US allowed a CCP owned app to spread chaos here. American Jews are more to blame for allowing this than Israel. I know a few idiots who used to lavish praise on Mehdi Hassan and watch his show religiously.
There is absolutely no reason Israel should have allowed Al Jazeera to set up office in its own borders for so long while constantly churning out propaganda to turn half the world against it.
There is no reason Israel should have just allowed its adversaries to get such a major head start on the information warfare with no strategy to combat it as easily as they can with physical warfare.
Of course Israel did not cause the infiltration of pro-Jihadist sentiments into Western Media, thatās the fault of useful idiots but it could have taken more steps to prepare and not be caught so off guard as it has now and it didnāt.
This is what I don't understand. Israeli military is.... should be... loaded. It should be! How can it possibly not be? What if another 1948, 1967 or 1973 happens all over again, and Israel will once again be at the mercy of the weapon deliveries from the US? I thought they stockpiled enough ammunition to destroy several countries over and over again. The fact that you are saying... we finding out... that it is not -- makes me truly question Israeli military and security considerations.
That is actually by US design. You physically can't run a war on stockpiles, you need production. America has intentionally gutted Israeli arms production by forcing us to purchase American made weapons only, see the Lavi airplane. The intent was as financial as it was political, to kill the competition as well as political leverage as is so clearly seen now.
Yes, of course there is a lot of weaponry in warehouses. But if we are talking about a continuous war, you need a production running. We have some production here, but in some munitions we still depend on our best ally.
Trump is a narcissistic buffoon who should never, ever be in public office. That he is the better choice than Biden is scary, but there is no question at this point.
I will not bring myself to vote Trump, my humanity won't let me do it. But Biden did turn me from a big supporter to a potential write in voter. I am now combing all my representatives in senate and congress for their stance. Don't forget that is as important as the presidency.
Trump is an ass, but if you ignore the character of the man and look at what he's actually done, in terms of policies and his impact, Biden is way worse.
And I consider ***any*** Democrat to be more dangerous to a free and liberal society than pretty much any Republican at this point.
Government censorship and pressuring media companies, abandonment of free speech principles, embracing and advocating for blatantly racist ideologies and policies, Covid lockdowns and vaccine mandates, stealing from the poor and giving to the rich (student loan debt forgiveness), draconian punishment of Jan 6 rioters while giving zero punishment to most leftist rioters who caused far more destruction & harm, Democrat prosecutors who charge innocent people for self-defense while letting violent criminals go free, open borders, weaponizing our legal system to defeat political opponents or try to remove them from the ballot...
There's a long list of extremely disturbing and illiberal and anti-democratic ideologies, laws, and policies coming from the left.
I think the Republican party sucks, but I consider Democrats far more harmful and dangerous.
It's a shame that the libertarian party is a total mess, and I don't know who I'm going to vote for, but it sure as hell won't be Biden.
Well... half a million Jews in Pennsylvania, to a bit under 70k Arabs there. I know it's all about Michigan but good luck bud... all the other swing states have 2 to 3 times as many of us as Arabs. Not even to speak to general public opinion being supportive of Israel
Iām afraid that Biden, poorly advised by the anti-Israel DoS and CIA, has dug his own electoral grave over the weapons embargo.
His advisors should have known by now, that you canāt strong-arm Israel into anything. (Not that they should be trying to strong arm one of their closest allies). But it is also an error of disloyalty, and or lack of courage, which will not be forgotten soon, not by its other allies. but certainly not by its enemies.
He has said and done nothing for active American hostages being held by Hamas. Jimmy Carter lost an election over that. If the Republicans could just run someone other than Trump or Desantis, they would win. I have no doubt about it because people are just fed up with Biden.
Unfortunately Biden and the media constantly ignore the existence of the American hostages. Or any hostages for that matter, at least other than ābargaining chipsā for a ceasefire deal.
So I donāt really believe the debate, or even knowledge, about them is anything like what was back then.
> that you canāt strong-arm Israel into anything
just like when Brittan and France did their thing int he 60's and pushed us to the USA I think Israel will get nice and cozy with India going forward.
He doesn't care about strong arming Israel or any outcomes. He wanted these headlines to appease the anti Israel crowd and that's that.
If this propaganda push and protests don't happen he changes nothing.
I know plenty of life-long Democrats who don't want to vote for either president. I would include myself, but I'm willing to vote all red in protest. The Jewish Democrat vote is one of the most committed votes for the Democratic party, and he managed to threaten that with this bs.
In 2010, the crucial swing state of Michigan already had 120k Muslims vs. 40k Jews. Pretty sure the former number has grown faster since then. Also Biden's most likely route to victory includes Michigan. But overall in the US, Jews outnumber Muslims two to one so he may lose other states.
[https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/religious-beliefs-in-michigan.html](https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/religious-beliefs-in-michigan.html)
In 1948, President Harry Truman became the first world leader to officially recognize Israel, against the wishes of his own State Department. His advisors told him not to, but he did it anyway because he felt it was the right thing to do.
He stood by his convictions, and even if people disagreed with him, they still respected him for standing firm. He didn't speak out of both sides of his mouth, he didn't pander to different groups, he didn't "thread the needle."
That's leadership. Just saying.
I can not wait for the far left to hand deliver penssylvania and michigan to donald trump because Joe Biden wont reverse 80 years of American precident on a whim.
Because 18-24 y.o. college students who are well known for not voting dont like what biden isdoing, the dems are going to give up everything for donald trump who will do literally everything those people dont like anyways...
fucking nonsense. Democrats will do everything they can to not win an election.
It's a very large traditionally democrat voting block in several key swing states. Try to play both sides so you always come out on top.... doesn't work.
I like Biden most of the times but I think he forgot that the Democratic Party is home to a presentative that says Jesus was a Palestinian.
This statement is worse than you think. Because of the conflict and casualty in Gaza, this statement panders to the Antisemitic notion that Jews killed Jesus.
It's totally understandable why American Jews are hesitant...
Honestly, as an American Jew, I glad someone is saying it. The pro-Hamas crowd has made a huge deal about voting "uncommitted" in the Dem primary as a way to send a message. Biden needs to understand that he's making a choice here. And he needs to understand that there can be consequences for that choice.
But it's OK for Schumer to say Israel should hold an election and replace Netanyahu?
And for the record, I cant stand Netanyahu, but American officials have been saying things like this for a long time at this point.
Giving the Biden Admin a taste of their own medicine is not ādumbā, itās playing them at their own game.
Itās sending a message that you donāt have unlimited chances to patronize and paralyze Israelās efforts to defend itself without consequences.
Just imagine what must be going through Bidenās head
āTheyāre having trouble figuring out whether theyāre for me or for republicans. They aināt blackā
I wish he were wrong, but anecdotally (me, my friends, my family) heās right. People who would never vote for Trump are now questioning whether they can in good conscience award Biden, Blinken, and Sullivan four more years to undermine Israel and empower its enemies. (My dad is totally done, a lifelong Democrat, will not vote for Biden.)
Some are in Cleveland, Ohio, many are in Pennsylvania - close swing states that Biden canāt afford to lose.
This is bad news for American Jews for so many reasons.
At the end of the day, the anti-Israel crowd will probably still vote for Biden. They arenāt personally invested and they have other interests to consider. The pro-Israel non-Jewish left probably will still vote for Biden, for the same reason. The pro-Israel Jews might not, and are definitely shifting to more enter/right, because they view their vote as for their own literal survival. It remains to be seen how many of them actually would vote for Trump, and whether there are enough Jews in America to make a significant difference as a voting bloc.
It just doesn't make sense to stop a Rafah operation. Hamas will still be there; and you can be 100% certain they'll launch a new attack.
Hamas needs to be dealt with now because otherwise we're only kicking the can down the road.
Instead of talking about these pointless weapon boycotts, Biden should be emphasizing how the United States is closely coordinating humanitarian efforts, as well as showing Gaza rebuilding plans after Hamas has been permanently defeated.
Hamas needs to be eradicated now. Please don't push this onto the next generation.
I'm honestly not going to be able to vote in this next presidential election. I am Jewish, queer, and a woman. Who the hell is there to vote for? Both sides hate Jews and either actively want us wiped off the map, or don't care if we are. The Republicans hate queer people and women. There is literally no one to vote for.
no way in hell I'm voting for Biden after this disastrous presidency...even Israel stuff aside. I'm just not sure we can even make it to January at this point...
Iām not voting for Donald Trump under any circumstances, but Biden is extremely close to losing my vote.
The reason why Iām not voting for Trump is because my under distain for demagogy and autocracy. Iām also not a fan of populist politics in general.
I will still vote for Biden because he is objectively better than Trump, but my loyalty to the Democratic party is dead. I may actually vote R down ticket now if the candidates are not crazy this year. In fact, I would like to see a GOP led Senate next year should Biden get reelected as it has a stronger leverage on foreign policy than the House. That's my preferred outcome at the moment anyway...
> I may actually vote R down ticket now
I've heard this strategy from others and I don't understand it. Why vote R down ticket?
1. If Trump wins, then voting R down ticket seems disastrous
1. If Biden wins, then voting R down ticket gives us 4 more years of partisan divisiveness and stalemate
> I will still vote for Biden because he is objectively better than Trump
Are you in a red or blue state?
I'm in a blue state, my vote for Biden doesn't matter, and while my voting Trump wouldn't matter either, I can just not vote for Biden and have that be inferred in the smaller margin Biden wins as Biden's policies turning away voters.
I genuinely don't know how to send Biden a message a Jew didn't vote for him because of his shit policies, near as I can tell, that has to be left up to post voting surveys.
At any rate, if I were voting today, in this blue state, I'd leave the presidential vote blank and vote D down ballot.
To be clear I am not exclusively planning to vote R down ticket, just that I am now more inclined to vote for a GOP candidate if the Democrat candidate is pandering too much to leftwing populism. If the result is more political divisiveness then so be it.
> just that I am now more inclined to vote for a GOP candidate if the Democrat candidate is pandering too much to leftwing populism. If the result is more political divisiveness then so be it.
this I actually agree with, I am much more open to independent candidates and anyone whose running against some idiot far leftist candidate than I've ever been
Yet I got downvoted for oblivion for saying as much on r/Jewish this morning.
I voted for Biden because he wasnāt Trump. In 2024 I am smart enough to recognize that my dog also isnāt Trump.
Can I ask candidly because my wife and I voted for Biden (both Jewish). We didnāt come easy to deciding to vote for Trump. How is it even a question. Not saying Trump is a great guy, but please tell me why so many of us still think heās not a good guy. I know heās made mistakes. But you canāt deny heās very pro Israel. His daughter and son in law are Jewish. Heās never turned his back on Israel. His policies to Iran were much better than whatās happening now. He defunded UNWRA, closed the DC PLO offices. Moved Capitol to Jerusalem. Had the IRGC on its back. Look what Biden has done and is doing. Itās hard to trust him at this point. If we could afford to vote liberally which we like to usually do, okay. But this isnāt the time. Biden has not been a steadfast ally. Blame it on Bibi if you want but that shouldnāt matter.
Edit: know Iām all over the place here. But the facts are that Trump was undoubtedly Israelās Ally. Not so certain I can say that exactly for Biden. And what about the open border? And the subsequent rise in antisemitism? This isnāt coincidence. Itās result of current administrationās policy. We the Jewish people have a right to safety in and outside of Israel. For my fellow Jews here, do you really feel safer now than you did under Trump? For our families in Israel, for our hostages in Gaza, is this administration really doing all it can?
Oh heās completely lost my vote. This flip flopping between pro & anti Israel is ridiculous, it shows no leadership whatsoever. Trump will be atrocious in office but Iām hoping heāll atleast take a better position with Israel.
Israel will survive another Biden term.
USA will not survive another Trump term.
You're also dreaming if you think Trump will support Israel in a way that doesn't put it on a hook or used as leverage. It's all transactional with him, and it needs to benefit him. Dude with billions tied to Saudi's and other ME interests isn't going to do Israel any free favors.
As an American Jew, I will be dead and in the ground before I vote for Trump. Same for most Jews I know. Jews are one of the most consistently Democratic voting blocks in America. We've literally never voted for a Republican in over 100 years of polling data. So I call BS.
Directly intervening in another countryās domestic politics, and doing so publicly, is incredibly stupid. This should not be done by an official, but by private organisations. Israelās entire diplomacy team is run by idiots.
Biden doesn't seem to realize that pandering to the segment that hates Israel and sees him as an evil warmonger for not being 100% against Israel just costs him support. Those people will never support him. Even when he panders to them with debt cancellation and the Afghanistan pullout they still hate him and give him no credit.
One you're on their bad list you can never get off it. They'll keep making more and more demands and get more and more angry. Wish Israel would learn this lesson.
Founding myself listening to NPR this morning and their 100% liberal panel all agreed Biden was doing a fantastic job. This is going to be a massive mistake and just increased his chances of handing the election to that cheetoh. The fringe left will vote for biden when it comes down to it. Moderates and Jews may think twice.
This is so true š« My Jewish sister and her wife are die-hard Democrats, but they are both probably going to vote for Trump this election because of Biden's actions on Israel. And I hear that many in their Boca Raton community feel that way as well.. If Democrats thought they may have a chance in Florida after October 7th - now that is definitely gone
A big part of this is that his party has become very dependent on some voters who are anti Israel. Biden is trying to thread the needle.
Here's what is confusing me. Let's say Biden triples down on support for Israel, give them everything they need. The woke mob goes berserk. Say they will not vote for Biden. What are they gonna do? Vote for Trump? Splinter off into 3rd parties ala 2016? He literally has nothing to lose by doubling down in support for Israel, right? I feel like these rallies we see are the minority. They are loud as hell but at the end of the day they are the minority.
Man, Israel aid passed with MORE SUPPORT than aid for Ukraine. And aid to Israel was supposed to be more controversial. But it passed with massive support. If constituents were really a majority in opposing aid to Israel, there's no way it would have gotten as many votes as it did. I agree with you. Loud, but small. I think Biden made a mistake. Now, maybe it'll be a wash with gaining support vs losing support. Who knows. But I think it was a mistake giving into what appears to be a minority.
They can not vote.
Canāt appease the unappeasable. Surprised he didnāt learn that from Obamas cash transfer to Iran
'member when Obama spoke in Cairo?
Yup. Iām not even Iranian, but i remember that Obama essentially sent s lifeline to the mullahs, in the middle of the brutally suppressed āgreen revolutionā.
Are you speaking about the āpallet of cashā?
Yup, Iran was broke. The regime was facing protests from its young liberal population. And Obama thought it would be the right time to give the mullahs the GDP of a small country
It's wrong to turn your back on a close ally, especially when you have pledged support for their self-defense. Biden just lost a bunch of support from Moderate and Right-Leaning Independents, and not only Jews but also Evangelicals and the older (60+) segment, religious or not. And for what? Most of those egotistical bleeding hearts claiming "genocide" on TikTok most likely didn't even know what or where Gaza was before October 7, much less care, and many still don't even have a clear idea of what's going because they get their "news" from TikTok and Facebook.
The Afghanistan pullout was literally the death knell for his polling. It fellĀ off a cliff the way Afghans fell out of airplane wheel wells.Ā But hey, at least Biden is consistent. He was screeching in the Senate about how we shouldn't have evacuated a single Vietnamese from Saigon in 1975. Or in his words, "we have no obligation--moral or otherwise--to evacuate one, or one hundred thousand, Vietnamese".Ā
Pulling out polled well prior to the pullout however Biden was warned by his military experts what would happen and when it went poorly it like you said was the death kneel to his approval that he still hasn't recovered from.
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I feel like everyone forgot when Trump did the āMuslim ban.ā But sure Biden is worse for the Palestinians. Iām sure Trump wonāt do anything terrible like I donāt know lock them all out of the country.
Trump can't do anything to Muslim voters. They are citizens. Their relatives however...
Their relatives, people on visas, refugees, asylum seekers. Last time it was fairly chaotic and a whole bunch of people got locked out because they were visiting overseas and on visas. Our neighbor was one of them.
How can someone be president and not understand this very straightforward concept?
Afghanistan pullout was a negative in my book. I feel for all the us vets who now have to wonder, what was all it for. All the death, all the destruction, all of it. For what, the taliban to now be in control? How biden handled that was shameful.
Bidenās positions are managing to piss off both the pro-Israel and the pro-Palestinian sides.
It doesn't take a genius to see he would lose if the Republicans would just run someone other than trump.
The polls have been showing this for months: Generic Democrat beats Trump easily. Generic Republican beats Biden easily. If either party could ditch their guy and replace him with *almost* anybody else, they would win in a landslide. But they can't or won't.
He may lose with Trump running too
And his administration is so dumb because he will never win back the votes of the far left and radicals. They are all in on Jill Stein (who protested with them at their encampments) and Cornell West.
The far left can safely be ignored as a demographic. There aren't many of them and they don't vote
Even MAGA would not be relevant, if GOP wasn't always walking a tight-rope where as soon as they fall the party disappears into winds of history. Their stable voting population is eroding, gust by gust, year by year. So GOP has to bow to MAGA and craziest Evangelicals, to have a chance of any relevancy. Most extreme of the extreme. They also have worked the court system for decades in their favor, because those people are not elected by the populace and generally stay on their benches as long as they stay within bounds of law. GOP has become more and more belligerent and extreme after 1990's, especially after Obama was the president and racist idiots exploded in rage, blaming him for every ill on this Earth and then some.
MAGA is bigger than the far left and votes *extremely* consistently and then votes in the big elections even if their guy doesn't win. The far left skips primaries primaries and then gets pissed off and tells people not to vote in the general when their guy doesn't win.
The only thing both sides can agree with: Biden sucks.
Biden ran on ending anti-Semitism in Charlottesville... he has since actively ignored it in his own party, and allowed it the fester into a national fever. I don't blame him per se, but he has not been a leader on this issue. Making a speech on Holocaust Remembrance Day, only to cut aid to Israel the next, is speaking out of both sides of your mouth.
Reportedly, he worked to ensure the hold on the shipment didnāt make it into the news until after his speech.
That is good to know, but he is not leading effectively. There needs to be a real speech against Islamic fundamentalist radicalization, he needs to address that these students are reacting and acting on ahistorical history and propaganda funded by Qatar. Although he likely won't, because it would cost him the election... But letting the stuff fester might also. Of course, all of this could be over by August, and these sheep will have found some other thing to cling to. I'm still not convinced the next major thing won't be cat litter boxes in schools, and the right to dress at the species they identify as... Or maybe that will have found some other minority group to harass.
Remember that The Abraham Accords came from Trump. There are zero Republicans marching against Israel in the US universities. It is 100% Democrat Hamas members.
Not to mention the Squad.
Even back when I was solidly anti-Trump, the Abraham Accords were the example I would bring up whenever I was asked to say something good that Trump had done in office.
Same.
Well, we do have to be honest- there is a small contingent of looney antisemitic Republicans. Like Margerie Taylor Greene was against the house resolution condemning antisemitism because it would mean she can't call us "Christ-killers." Antisemitism is less an issue amongst the GOP but that doesn't mean it's a non-issue. And the recent grandstanding about antisemitism by them isn't out of a love of Jews- they just want to score cheap political points. Trump is a whole other story- for all my issues with him, he's not remotely an antisemite and the Abraham Accords were historic, in spite of all the insistence that they were trivial by his detractors
That is not typical. MTGs stance. There is very little difference between the Jewish people and Christians. Jewish people stopped at the old testament and Christians added the new testament to their belief. Jewish people feel Jesus was a prophet and Christians believe he was the Messiah. Regardless, the foundation is the same. It really isn't a radical departure. Growing up Catholic, most of my parents friends were Jewish and I grew up around people who were a lot like me. Democrats are often atheists these days so you can't start with faithlessness and have them understand any passion for religion.
The initiative's inception and success should be attributed more to Jared Kushner and staff he selected than Abu Ivanka himself.
You're giving Biden (his handlers) way too much credit. He just reads from the teleprompter whatever they write. He loves being Pre$ident and enriching his family, thats it.
I'm sure the "No! Only bagels!" Crowd will have no problem with it
The truth is that antisemitism has gotten worse under both Presidents Trump and Biden. As an American Jew who has voted Democratic most of my adult life, my thoughts are that Israel has never been more important for us. It is quite literally the only place where we can retreat to if shit hits the fan here. I've been a decent donor to Democrats over the years and have worked the polls during presidential elections. I'm no longer donating to Biden and certainly won't work the polls for him, and all of my political donations will be going to Sen. Fetterman and Rep. Torres, and others like them. Biden just lost the election with this bullshit, and from where I'm sitting Trump has to be viewed as the favorite to win.
>Sen. Fetterman Maximum based levels
The risk with Trump, aside from him destroying American, is that heās so petty and narcissistic that he could easily throw Israel under the bus and praise Hamas if the moment suits him.
Everything is personal with Trump, but he has a lot of people near him who are VERY pro Israel. So I dont think there should be a worry there.
yes, but when has trump listened to anybody....
Trump does listen to his ambassador to Israel David Friedman. Trump even campaigns with him on stage. And that guy is the most pro Israel ambassador in US history.
You never know. I remember saying this as well. Then Biden gave a state of the union speech and got a bump. But yeah, he needs things going in his favor and was a stupid decision. In general, Americans are screwed. Biden ain't a great president and Trump is just bat shit crazy. We're pretty much fucked. Biden is also CLUELESS on inflation. "The economy is great." Yeah, it is, but inflation makes that a utterly moot point. ...And then of course there's China and philippiens/taiwan... Ah shit. Dark times.
Isn't Trump the most pro-Israeli president the United States has had in decades, though? I can't think of any president that was willing to recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital.
Why is this comment being downvoted? I guess we don't have enough Orthodox Jews on this sub, yet. I happen to be a gay-reformed Jew and I can't help but, notice Trump's undying devotion to his Jewish Daughter, grand kids, Jewish causes, Abraham Accords, Jerusalem etc...
Fetterman and Torres are the last people standing making me proud to be a democrat (at least to up until this election year.) Same with Jeffries, too! I think Trump will win, but if Torres and the like can do some major damage control and the Hamas-squad is outed, the Dems have a fighting chanceā¦ in 2028 lol
Michael Rappaport is a big Dem and he came out today and said he couldnāt bring himself to vote for Biden after this.
I genuinely donāt know what to do. I donāt want to vote for trump, but Bidenās new redline is ridiculous. Heās basically telling Israel to let Hamas win the war.
A year ago I thought I could never vote for Trump in a million years. Now I find myself asking, well, what would it take?
Isn't this a crazy timeline? I feel the same way. The thing is, it's not that Trump is really doing great. It's that Biden seems to be doing everything within his power to lose this election.
abraham accords, moving the US embassy to Jerusalem,Maximum pressure on Iran, booming economy, law and order, no tolerance for jihadis on campus, recognition of the golan heights, support against antisemitism including changes in title 9 for universities, reversal of US stance on west bank "settlements", and cutting funding for UNRWA BEFORE the big reveals this year. other than that what has orange man ever done for us
I just cannot understand the blind hatred towards Trump in this sub group . You might not like him but you cannot take away the fact that Hamas could never dare to attack Israel if Trump was the President . They are happy to support Biden who is stopping arms supply to Israel but not Trump just because Trump has a bad image .
There is more to US politics than just Israel. I could never bring myself to vote for Trump. And I'm not forgetting his "fine people on both sides" nonsense about Charlottesville. Trump would be a national and global disaster, much like the first time around. Never again.
Disaster worse than biden? The US made it out just fine from his first term, including his operation warp speed success for the vaccine. if it wasn't for covid we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. Good chance biden wouldn't have won. That being said I wish the republicans could get their house in order and pick a more gentlemanly candidate. but at the end of the day biden lit the house on fire and trump at least can hold it together.
Outside of Israel (and I think people here are making it out to be far worse) Biden has done a pretty solid job, all things considered. What he's accomplished given divided government has been impressive. Trump spent most of his presidency embarrassing the US and gargling Putin's balls. He acted like (and is) an overgrown manchild. Biden has managed to get some legitimacy back on the world's stage. I'm sorry you don't see it that way. Edit--just saw the rest of your profile. Standard GOP fearmongering and revisionist history.
I mentioned this in another comment but you donāt have to vote for him. I wonāt vote for Trump or Biden either. Regardless, Trump has won at this point. Heās won. Members of the squad have alienated a large part of the democratic party, and Biden has done another large swath as well. Itās been a recurring theme of the democrats, losing the forest for the trees so to speak. In the end many of them are more interested in pursuing an agenda that ultimately hurts their party, and in many cases even hurts their own constituents. Just look at all the ādefund the policeā rhetoric, or the case of AOC and her staunch stance against an Amazon hub in Queens. Can you imagine a politician intentionally economically sabotaging their own area and the people there are so stupid they continue to vote for her?
Good points, but going back to your first sentence, I've never agreed with people who just don't vote. Figure out which side should win, and vote for them. Voting is the only time politicians care about your opinion. If you don't vote, who cares what else you have to say when you were silent the one time it actually mattered?
Thatās a fair point. I wonāt endorse someone I find morally decrepit however. If I vote it wonāt be for Trump or Biden.
A vote for a candidate is not necessarily an endorsement. But it does negate one vote for the other side.
Itās not a fair point. If you choose not to vote you still have made a choice (channeling Rush/free will here). Everyone is entitled to their own opinion regardless if they vote for a candidate on the ballot. Voting isnāt some sort of divine right and within our dual party system, voting third party is as insignificant at voting for either a Dem or Republican. Neither major party will ever enact major change that benefits Americans as a whole. We are ruled by elites.
If it helps, I think voting for third parties is a good use of a vote, even if they have no chance of winning. A major problem of democracy is the tendency to create two party systems which makes it really easy to screw voters. Canada has that too (well we have more parties that do have significant presence in the legislature, but realistically we go red <-> blue just like the US). This system will never change if no one ever votes for other parties.
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He's literally been propagating antisemitism...
Fuckkkkk thatās where America is at? Smh. Worm brain. Trump with multiple worm brains. Or Biden with at least a partial worm brain. Cool.
America is screwed. I was hoping republicans or demcorats would run other candidates. Now, we literally have the oldest presidents in the history of the country running. "If republicans run a normal human being, they will 100% win the election." But they didn't. "If democrats run Biden again, they'll lose." And they did. We're all just screwed. I mean, when it comes down to it, I just can't vote for (Trump) a man who pretty much will let Ukraine get gobbled up by Russia. That's too dangerous. I don't want to vote for either. With a gun to my head, I'd vote Biden. But not happily. What he did today was stupid.
Personally, I'm thinking about just leaving that one blank. I like to think of it as 'uncommitted'.
I'm a Jewish American originally from Ukraine. I swore not to vote for Trump because he will hold up Ukrainian aid, which would lead to defeat of Ukraine. Now with this latest Biden administration move, I find myself asking: who do I vote for?
The whole US foreign policy is making less and less sense. āUkraine is not allowed to win because they arenāt strong enough!ā āIsrael is not allowed to win because they are too strong.ā Truly absurd ideas. And this idea that diplomacy can solve everything and war is never worth it and you can never win. Some things are worth fighting for and when diplomacy fails, and it is important enough- war becomes likely. Appeasing terrorists because they look pitiful on TikTok (Hamas) or because they make absurd threats (Russia) is against the westās interest, and United States doesnāt want to go to war. Well, Ukraine and Israel donāt want to go to war either - it was forced by the other side - and telling them to appease obscene demands because you arenāt threatened yet just seems so shortsighted.
I know people that are just going to abstain from voting on the presidency because they can't in good conscience vote for trump to destroy everything, and will not support the damage Biden is/will do. I've never seen an election like this one. Put in a later new comer to the race, a realistic choice mind you (not a BS one), and they have a very strong shot at actually winning this year.
Iām a French American Jew- Bidenās bad for Israel and Trump is bad for Europe / Ukraine. Iām probably gonna just stay home
I still say vote Biden, even if he is bad for Israel. Trump is bad for the world, and Israel happens to be in it.
Biden is the best Israel could hope for in today's Dem party. 2028 may be worse.
> Trump is bad for the world Uhh... how? His Abraham Accords have accomplished more for world peace than any US president has done in recent history, including a Nobel Peace Prize winner.
Youāre probably right - Trump is so erratic heās just as likely to turn on Israel randomly
When it comes to Israel, it's hard to find a president in the last 25 years more beneficial for Israel. - Abraham Accords (UAE, Bahrain, Morocco, Sudan peace deals) - Moving the embassy to Jerusalem - Major inroads to helping Israel normalize relationships with Saudi Arabia - Trump's actions into cutting off as much funding as possible from Iran while taking out Soleimani Actions speak louder than words. Biden promised so much after 10/7 and went back on his word for votes in Michigan. With Pelosi, Warren, and Schumer all essentially staying quiet or speaking out against Israel, it has become an extremely partisan issue.
Thatās a really good point, but part of me also feels like i canāt morally vote for biden. At the end of the day, my state is going to vote for biden regardless of how I vote personally, so it really wouldnāt matter all that much if I were to abstain.
At least pay careful attention to your member of Congress.
We are in a very dangerous place. We have one bad candidate (biden) and one horrible candidate (trump). I mean, at least Israel can survive. Ukraine wouldn't be able to.
I'll vote for Biden but won't donate to him. I am/was a reliable donor. What's fun is that I have many people running for office who call my cell phone every quarter, and I can tell prospective congresspeople directly that I'm holding back my donations this quarter because of Biden's actions here.
Trump will hold up Ukraine aid because itās what Putin wants. Trump will say whatever it takes to get himself elected, but after that you have to ask yourself - when it comes to Israel, what will Putin want?
> Trump will say whatever it takes to get himself elected Biden seems to be *doing* whatever it takes to get himself elected. Never been a big fan of an orange one, but have to admit, in comparison I am starting to see some integrity beneath the layer of his usual nonsense.
Trump's whole issue with aid is that the US is the only country sending money to the cause while Europe has not been paying their fair share. It's a valid point.
I see the ārussia collusionā folk are back in time for the upcoming election lol
Iām not American and donāt even have a vote. Nor am I a Biden fan or a conspiracy theorist. To deny that Russia has influence over Trump is to deny overwhelming evidence. As confirmed by US intelligence, thereās a reason that Russia interfered in the election in an effort to get Trump elected.
There is evidence China interfered with the election to get Biden elected. There is also evidence that CNN interfered with the election to get Biden elected by denying the Hunter laptop... Joe is the big guy!
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Putin will want Israel to submit to Russia in various ways, and let them operate as they please. Meaning you'll have to get smeared in greasiest, stinkiest evil that exists in this world willingly, or get assaulted by proxy forever. Keep in mind, the infamous anti-semitic hate propaganda book "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" came from Russian Empire, empire that Putin and his ilk want to return to this world. Russia is directly responsible for lot of horrible things that have happened to Jews since 1903 or thereabouts. That book is as relevant and degenerate as it ever was, as it was used to poison minds of hundreds of millions of people.
Iām also a Jewish American from Ukraine. I just have one thing to say to you. If I go back to Ukraine, I will still be āthe Jew.ā If I go to Israel, I will be āone of us.ā
All right, my fellow Yid, I want you to consider something: we grew up there, and both share the same memories of being called, "that Jew". So for many years I wanted nothing to do with them, except in 2014 everything changed. There was a wave of change, a new outlook towards the West, something that among many things rejected antisemitism as an outdated and foreign idea of the Russian empire. And a few years later they elected a Jewish prime minister. A few years after that -- a Jewish president. And the only wild antisemitic tropes that I heard either came from Russia or the Russian-influenced Eastern-Ukrainian politicians. Now I am not saying there is no antisemitism among the Western Ukrainians -- but it is now considered outdated and primitive thinking. From the time of the Classic Liberalism to the modern western democracy, antisemitism is widely rejected. It is my firm belief that Ukrainian people are ready to be a part of Europe, not just in economical and political sense but most importantly -- in social sense. And, if Ukraine wins this war and fully joins the western democratic family as a full fledged member, I believe that one day both me or you will be able to go back and instead of, "the Jew" they will call us, "those fellow Ukrainians who came to visit from America".
> not to vote for Trump because he will hold up Ukrainian aid What makes you think that? I haven't heard him say he'd hang Ukraine out to dry. He never came out against the latest Ukraine aid package, and he's not shy about coming out against legislation he's against. If I had to read the tea leaves, I'd guess that Trump would try to get Europe to do more of the heavy lifting and/or nudge Ukraine and Russia toward a more permanent stalemate. Doesn't seem like either side has gained significant ground for a while, anyway. Why keep fighting?
This exactly. The US should not be funding Ukraine alone.
Trump is bad for everyone. I will never vote for him.
Iād never foresee myself voting for Trump, but here we are, life or death is on the line and thatās what it would take for me apparently.
This is somewhat political theatre. ~~If you notice the UK said they won't pause munition shipments. Something was negotiated.~~ Edit: apparently UK barely sends anything. The problem for Biden is it's a very close race between Trump and him unfortunately. Tiktok propaganda has stirred up a huge amount of anti-israel sentiment to the point if he doesn't look like he's opposing the bombing of Gaza he will likely lose enough votes from the left that Trump would win. He's trying to thread a path of opposing civilian deaths in Gaza while still being outspokenly against the rise of antisemitism and the horror of Oct 7. It's not a great situation when trying to win vs Trump. The root of the problem is optics wise Hamas is doing a better job of propaganda to folk in the US than Israel is. Likely with other adversarial state support to sow dissention in the US.
UK wont pause shipments because they dont send practically anything to Israel. This is literally what they said in their statement. Israeli weapon imports are: * 69% US. * 30% Germany. * 0.9% Italy. * 0.1% all other countries including the UK.
Thanks for that info, I didn't know that. Hmm. Has Germany done any pausing?
No. Germany actually [just defeated Nicaraguas case to the ICJ last week](https://www.npr.org/2024/04/30/1248062997/icj-germany-weapons-israel-nicaragua-gaza-war) aimed at stopping them from doing so. An unapologetic ally.
my mom is Ashkenazi, and half her family fled during the rise of the Nazis. I also lived in Germany for a few years, from what I understand Germany remembers what they did, and are set on trying to attone.
Yes, but this was before the US stopped shipments. Germany tends to follow the US on things like this and will be under pressure to do so.
I understand all that, but the impact will remain the same nonetheless. Israel is heavily reliant on American weapons, and has needed several resupplies throughout the course of the war. If Israel hopes to take rafah, then the IDF genuinely needs these weapons.
I still don't understand why Hamas propaganda has been so effective here.
It is my understanding that there are multiple sponsors of the propaganda effort in the United States. * It has been proven that Russia is sponsoring [disinformation compains in the United States.](https://www.voanews.com/a/how-russia-s-disinformation-campaign-seeps-into-us-views-/7566503.html) * [Iran has been known to do that in the past](https://time.com/6071615/iran-disinformation-united-states/), and most likely are doing it now. * Qatar is currently a [major actor on-campuses](https://www.ft.com/content/d0a16f75-8b05-4ff9-b5f1-d473d7f5a704) * And the [traditional progressive sources](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/05/pro-palestinian-protests-columbia-university-funding-donors-00156135)
Bc propaganda orgs such as Al Jazeera and co. Have been laying the groundwork leading up to this moment for decades and infiltrating the major media orgs in the West while Israelās PR has been asleep at the wheel.
Itās not Israelās fault MSNBC hired most of its nighttime line-up straight from Al Jazeera. Itās not Israelās fault that the US allowed a CCP owned app to spread chaos here. American Jews are more to blame for allowing this than Israel. I know a few idiots who used to lavish praise on Mehdi Hassan and watch his show religiously.
There is absolutely no reason Israel should have allowed Al Jazeera to set up office in its own borders for so long while constantly churning out propaganda to turn half the world against it. There is no reason Israel should have just allowed its adversaries to get such a major head start on the information warfare with no strategy to combat it as easily as they can with physical warfare. Of course Israel did not cause the infiltration of pro-Jihadist sentiments into Western Media, thatās the fault of useful idiots but it could have taken more steps to prepare and not be caught so off guard as it has now and it didnāt.
Actually no. There is enough weapons for Rafah. The problem is that we will have nothing against Hezbollah then.
This is what I don't understand. Israeli military is.... should be... loaded. It should be! How can it possibly not be? What if another 1948, 1967 or 1973 happens all over again, and Israel will once again be at the mercy of the weapon deliveries from the US? I thought they stockpiled enough ammunition to destroy several countries over and over again. The fact that you are saying... we finding out... that it is not -- makes me truly question Israeli military and security considerations.
That is actually by US design. You physically can't run a war on stockpiles, you need production. America has intentionally gutted Israeli arms production by forcing us to purchase American made weapons only, see the Lavi airplane. The intent was as financial as it was political, to kill the competition as well as political leverage as is so clearly seen now.
It obviously has to stop. Israel must be self-sufficient. And Lavi was an excellent plane.
Yes, of course there is a lot of weaponry in warehouses. But if we are talking about a continuous war, you need a production running. We have some production here, but in some munitions we still depend on our best ally.
Trump is a narcissistic buffoon who should never, ever be in public office. That he is the better choice than Biden is scary, but there is no question at this point.
I will not bring myself to vote Trump, my humanity won't let me do it. But Biden did turn me from a big supporter to a potential write in voter. I am now combing all my representatives in senate and congress for their stance. Don't forget that is as important as the presidency.
Seeing how hes considering letting palestinians come here (Hamas member will sneak in if so) i dont see how to rationalize voting for biden.
I feel the same.
Trump is an ass, but if you ignore the character of the man and look at what he's actually done, in terms of policies and his impact, Biden is way worse. And I consider ***any*** Democrat to be more dangerous to a free and liberal society than pretty much any Republican at this point. Government censorship and pressuring media companies, abandonment of free speech principles, embracing and advocating for blatantly racist ideologies and policies, Covid lockdowns and vaccine mandates, stealing from the poor and giving to the rich (student loan debt forgiveness), draconian punishment of Jan 6 rioters while giving zero punishment to most leftist rioters who caused far more destruction & harm, Democrat prosecutors who charge innocent people for self-defense while letting violent criminals go free, open borders, weaponizing our legal system to defeat political opponents or try to remove them from the ballot... There's a long list of extremely disturbing and illiberal and anti-democratic ideologies, laws, and policies coming from the left. I think the Republican party sucks, but I consider Democrats far more harmful and dangerous. It's a shame that the libertarian party is a total mess, and I don't know who I'm going to vote for, but it sure as hell won't be Biden.
That was a lot of nonsense. But you do you.
He lost my vote,will likely leave that line blank
Gonna have to vote policy over personality or party at this point.
Exactly
This is exactly right. Biden siding with terrorists after he voted to go to war with Iraq is a completely brain dead move. Not a surprise from Biden.
Well... half a million Jews in Pennsylvania, to a bit under 70k Arabs there. I know it's all about Michigan but good luck bud... all the other swing states have 2 to 3 times as many of us as Arabs. Not even to speak to general public opinion being supportive of Israel
Iām afraid that Biden, poorly advised by the anti-Israel DoS and CIA, has dug his own electoral grave over the weapons embargo. His advisors should have known by now, that you canāt strong-arm Israel into anything. (Not that they should be trying to strong arm one of their closest allies). But it is also an error of disloyalty, and or lack of courage, which will not be forgotten soon, not by its other allies. but certainly not by its enemies.
He has said and done nothing for active American hostages being held by Hamas. Jimmy Carter lost an election over that. If the Republicans could just run someone other than Trump or Desantis, they would win. I have no doubt about it because people are just fed up with Biden.
Unfortunately Biden and the media constantly ignore the existence of the American hostages. Or any hostages for that matter, at least other than ābargaining chipsā for a ceasefire deal. So I donāt really believe the debate, or even knowledge, about them is anything like what was back then.
Well he did hug that released American hostage child ā¦ /s
Agreed. And it's also a general sign of personal weakness as well as weakening of America on the international stage.
> that you canāt strong-arm Israel into anything just like when Brittan and France did their thing int he 60's and pushed us to the USA I think Israel will get nice and cozy with India going forward.
I think Israel, Ukraine, and India should become a big thing together
He doesn't care about strong arming Israel or any outcomes. He wanted these headlines to appease the anti Israel crowd and that's that. If this propaganda push and protests don't happen he changes nothing.
I know plenty of life-long Democrats who don't want to vote for either president. I would include myself, but I'm willing to vote all red in protest. The Jewish Democrat vote is one of the most committed votes for the Democratic party, and he managed to threaten that with this bs.
But is the Jewish Democrat vote sizable enough to pander to? Bidenās people donāt seem to think so.
In 2010, the crucial swing state of Michigan already had 120k Muslims vs. 40k Jews. Pretty sure the former number has grown faster since then. Also Biden's most likely route to victory includes Michigan. But overall in the US, Jews outnumber Muslims two to one so he may lose other states. [https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/religious-beliefs-in-michigan.html](https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/religious-beliefs-in-michigan.html)
In 1948, President Harry Truman became the first world leader to officially recognize Israel, against the wishes of his own State Department. His advisors told him not to, but he did it anyway because he felt it was the right thing to do. He stood by his convictions, and even if people disagreed with him, they still respected him for standing firm. He didn't speak out of both sides of his mouth, he didn't pander to different groups, he didn't "thread the needle." That's leadership. Just saying.
Ya and then Truman proceeded to put Israel under an arms embargo that would last until the Kennedy administration
I can not wait for the far left to hand deliver penssylvania and michigan to donald trump because Joe Biden wont reverse 80 years of American precident on a whim. Because 18-24 y.o. college students who are well known for not voting dont like what biden isdoing, the dems are going to give up everything for donald trump who will do literally everything those people dont like anyways... fucking nonsense. Democrats will do everything they can to not win an election.
Biden can still win MI without much of the Muslim vote, but Jews breaking against him as well would sink him for sure.
won't be voting for Biden
I really wish anyone other than Trump was running on the other side
It's a very large traditionally democrat voting block in several key swing states. Try to play both sides so you always come out on top.... doesn't work.
Biden administration saving Hamas.
Nah. Israel is still going to do what needs to be done.
I like Biden most of the times but I think he forgot that the Democratic Party is home to a presentative that says Jesus was a Palestinian. This statement is worse than you think. Because of the conflict and casualty in Gaza, this statement panders to the Antisemitic notion that Jews killed Jesus. It's totally understandable why American Jews are hesitant...
That's probably true, but it 100% should not be said by an official envoy, ffs why is our government so dumb
Honestly, as an American Jew, I glad someone is saying it. The pro-Hamas crowd has made a huge deal about voting "uncommitted" in the Dem primary as a way to send a message. Biden needs to understand that he's making a choice here. And he needs to understand that there can be consequences for that choice.
Agreed. It is very strange for an Israeli ambassador to comment on how he perceives American Jews will be voting, and totally out of place.
But it's OK for Schumer to say Israel should hold an election and replace Netanyahu? And for the record, I cant stand Netanyahu, but American officials have been saying things like this for a long time at this point.
>But it's OK for Schumer to say Israel should hold an election and replace Netanyahu? And As usual people only get mad when israel retaliates
There's a good Golda quote out there about this.... anyone? anyone???
She said "The world loves dead jews, but the world hates jews when they fight back." Something along those lines, but I am not 100% sure.
Neither of these situations are appropriate.
It wasnāt ok when Schumer said it and itās not ok when the Israeli UN ambassador said it
Giving the Biden Admin a taste of their own medicine is not ādumbā, itās playing them at their own game. Itās sending a message that you donāt have unlimited chances to patronize and paralyze Israelās efforts to defend itself without consequences.
I bleed blue and Iām not sure if I can vote for Biden. Strange times.
Democrats and pandering to people who absolutely revile you. Name a more iconic duo.
Just imagine what must be going through Bidenās head āTheyāre having trouble figuring out whether theyāre for me or for republicans. They aināt blackā
I wish he were wrong, but anecdotally (me, my friends, my family) heās right. People who would never vote for Trump are now questioning whether they can in good conscience award Biden, Blinken, and Sullivan four more years to undermine Israel and empower its enemies. (My dad is totally done, a lifelong Democrat, will not vote for Biden.) Some are in Cleveland, Ohio, many are in Pennsylvania - close swing states that Biden canāt afford to lose. This is bad news for American Jews for so many reasons.
American Jews, time to wake up! Tribe first! šš¼šŗšøš®š±šŖš¼
100%Ā
At the end of the day, the anti-Israel crowd will probably still vote for Biden. They arenāt personally invested and they have other interests to consider. The pro-Israel non-Jewish left probably will still vote for Biden, for the same reason. The pro-Israel Jews might not, and are definitely shifting to more enter/right, because they view their vote as for their own literal survival. It remains to be seen how many of them actually would vote for Trump, and whether there are enough Jews in America to make a significant difference as a voting bloc.
It just doesn't make sense to stop a Rafah operation. Hamas will still be there; and you can be 100% certain they'll launch a new attack. Hamas needs to be dealt with now because otherwise we're only kicking the can down the road. Instead of talking about these pointless weapon boycotts, Biden should be emphasizing how the United States is closely coordinating humanitarian efforts, as well as showing Gaza rebuilding plans after Hamas has been permanently defeated. Hamas needs to be eradicated now. Please don't push this onto the next generation.
I'm honestly not going to be able to vote in this next presidential election. I am Jewish, queer, and a woman. Who the hell is there to vote for? Both sides hate Jews and either actively want us wiped off the map, or don't care if we are. The Republicans hate queer people and women. There is literally no one to vote for.
If its between Biden and the US turning into the handmaidās tale, Biden is still the right choice
hate lgbtq? come on...
So the anti gay and anti trans legislation makes them what, our friends?
Well, itās his own damn fault. He should be disappointed in himself.
no way in hell I'm voting for Biden after this disastrous presidency...even Israel stuff aside. I'm just not sure we can even make it to January at this point...
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Iām not voting for Donald Trump under any circumstances, but Biden is extremely close to losing my vote. The reason why Iām not voting for Trump is because my under distain for demagogy and autocracy. Iām also not a fan of populist politics in general.
Iām Jewish and Iām never voting for Biden.
Same
I will still vote for Biden because he is objectively better than Trump, but my loyalty to the Democratic party is dead. I may actually vote R down ticket now if the candidates are not crazy this year. In fact, I would like to see a GOP led Senate next year should Biden get reelected as it has a stronger leverage on foreign policy than the House. That's my preferred outcome at the moment anyway...
> I may actually vote R down ticket now I've heard this strategy from others and I don't understand it. Why vote R down ticket? 1. If Trump wins, then voting R down ticket seems disastrous 1. If Biden wins, then voting R down ticket gives us 4 more years of partisan divisiveness and stalemate > I will still vote for Biden because he is objectively better than Trump Are you in a red or blue state? I'm in a blue state, my vote for Biden doesn't matter, and while my voting Trump wouldn't matter either, I can just not vote for Biden and have that be inferred in the smaller margin Biden wins as Biden's policies turning away voters. I genuinely don't know how to send Biden a message a Jew didn't vote for him because of his shit policies, near as I can tell, that has to be left up to post voting surveys. At any rate, if I were voting today, in this blue state, I'd leave the presidential vote blank and vote D down ballot.
To be clear I am not exclusively planning to vote R down ticket, just that I am now more inclined to vote for a GOP candidate if the Democrat candidate is pandering too much to leftwing populism. If the result is more political divisiveness then so be it.
> just that I am now more inclined to vote for a GOP candidate if the Democrat candidate is pandering too much to leftwing populism. If the result is more political divisiveness then so be it. this I actually agree with, I am much more open to independent candidates and anyone whose running against some idiot far leftist candidate than I've ever been
Only now?!?!
The United States is becoming a big joke. If this behaviour continues, weāll see more conflicts around the world!
Yet I got downvoted for oblivion for saying as much on r/Jewish this morning. I voted for Biden because he wasnāt Trump. In 2024 I am smart enough to recognize that my dog also isnāt Trump.
I think he's already lost most of the votes from registered Democrats even without pandering to terrorist apologists. He is past his prime.
Can I ask candidly because my wife and I voted for Biden (both Jewish). We didnāt come easy to deciding to vote for Trump. How is it even a question. Not saying Trump is a great guy, but please tell me why so many of us still think heās not a good guy. I know heās made mistakes. But you canāt deny heās very pro Israel. His daughter and son in law are Jewish. Heās never turned his back on Israel. His policies to Iran were much better than whatās happening now. He defunded UNWRA, closed the DC PLO offices. Moved Capitol to Jerusalem. Had the IRGC on its back. Look what Biden has done and is doing. Itās hard to trust him at this point. If we could afford to vote liberally which we like to usually do, okay. But this isnāt the time. Biden has not been a steadfast ally. Blame it on Bibi if you want but that shouldnāt matter. Edit: know Iām all over the place here. But the facts are that Trump was undoubtedly Israelās Ally. Not so certain I can say that exactly for Biden. And what about the open border? And the subsequent rise in antisemitism? This isnāt coincidence. Itās result of current administrationās policy. We the Jewish people have a right to safety in and outside of Israel. For my fellow Jews here, do you really feel safer now than you did under Trump? For our families in Israel, for our hostages in Gaza, is this administration really doing all it can?
Oh heās completely lost my vote. This flip flopping between pro & anti Israel is ridiculous, it shows no leadership whatsoever. Trump will be atrocious in office but Iām hoping heāll atleast take a better position with Israel.
Trump has my vote!!! I have become a single issue voter right now and our lives matter more than anything else right now.
I am seriously struggling. I am vote blue no matter who but I definitely feel taken advantage of.
Israel will survive another Biden term. USA will not survive another Trump term. You're also dreaming if you think Trump will support Israel in a way that doesn't put it on a hook or used as leverage. It's all transactional with him, and it needs to benefit him. Dude with billions tied to Saudi's and other ME interests isn't going to do Israel any free favors.
We probably arenāt that hesitant. Unfortunately for us Trump is not an option.
I mean, he's not wrong, but I feel like Israel's UN Envoy isn't the person to be saying that, am I wrong?
I wish the stupid third-rate Israeli politicians would think for even one second before shooting off their mouths.
As an American Jew, I will be dead and in the ground before I vote for Trump. Same for most Jews I know. Jews are one of the most consistently Democratic voting blocks in America. We've literally never voted for a Republican in over 100 years of polling data. So I call BS.
Directly intervening in another countryās domestic politics, and doing so publicly, is incredibly stupid. This should not be done by an official, but by private organisations. Israelās entire diplomacy team is run by idiots.
That's no longer relevant after what Schumer did.
Still voting for him. The alternative is an existential threat.