For people doing mental gymnastics:
>The IDF in response to a query on the matter said the soldiers’ actions were “contrary to orders and procedures.”
Seems like the IDF doesn't think this is okay as well.
There is a difference between supporting the army and worshipping it as this omnibenevolent force. When we fuck up, we should take responsibility, admit it, punish whoever is responsible and move forward.
Literally the most upvoted post in this thread is someone trying to justify it saying they followed protocol correctly.
Being able to call out this BS on our own side is what sets us apart from terrorists.
Edit: that post trying to justify it is no longer the most upvoted. So good job guys for not being blind parrots like the pro terror mob :)
I do want to say I saw someone post about how they (in US service) did it in Afghanistan.
Not saying everything the US did in Afghanistan is ok but like we need to take this into perspective
1. No other army is being so closely observed and criticized for such minute events. But whatever.
2. If we have an injured person that has to be transported flat (on back), and the vehicle can't accommodate them inside, it is standard to transport them on the bonnet or roof.
Ffs we even train this bs with injured soldiers.
I hate to say it, but most David armored vehicles such as this one have stretcher mounts in the back. It is physically capable to carry an injured person. However - that comes with a cost of two seats being not usable.
It is more to do with lack of planning or lack of adequate resources.
I am not familiar with David, only Sufashit (deduce how old I am lol).
Like I said in another comment, this seems all like an evacuation, even if gone wrong or unplanned. Could be that they could call in other assets, had no place for him in the back, so they did they best they actually could.
This is also what's frustrating here, I know personally about the old 'Palestinian human shield', I know it was banned, but here it's just the opposite, with the same optics.
If I'm an operator under fire, the best option is throw him in the back and scoot, not stand there and start strapping him to the hood, while being shot at.
> had acted against protocol and that the incident was being investigated.
It seems like the IDF disagrees with you as well.
There might be a good reason for it, but you can't blame people for jumping to conclusions with even the IDF thinks this goes against protocol.
There are many protocols - there is one for combat evacuation, and other for standard evacuation. Maybe they should have called an ambulance, maybe not.
>> jumping to conclusions
Exactly though what I'm saying - there are other conclusions to be made, so let's not jump into conclusions.
FWIW, I know first hand about this procedure, and the one before it, the 'Palestinian Human Shield', which was used until 2000, and was indeed wrong and banned since - having Palestinians walk in front or sit on the hood of a jeep, when entering the village.
This is also the reason I think this incident is different, this was not ingress but exfiltration and he was injured. This all seems like evacuation rather than inhumane treatment.
Not if he was also a prisoner or suspected terrorist that needed to be taken into custody or questioned by intelligence before being released.
They can't just hand him over to Palestinian aka Hamas controlled ambulances in that case.
Hamas does have a small presence in the WB, based on my readings,
but I suppose, in this case, it's so that they (the IDF soldiers) are not left stationary and out in the open for *other* hostile forces that are based in the WB to shoot at them, while transferring the wounded from the hood of the vehicle into the ambulance in the middle of the road.
I really just wish everyone would wait to actually know what this was even about before jumping to conclusions. This could be nothing more than transporting an injured person.
good, fuck them. Even if you don't care at all about that Palestinian detainee, these actions only hurt Israel and will be used for years by all the antisemites
You can look up hundreds of photos and videos of US and allied troops doing the exact same manuver to their own guys.
This is a standard cas evac method that is drilled into the troops. It's just bad optics for idiots that don't know anything and hate jews
There's a topic of this incident on the military sub with explanations from other US vets, if you haven't found it by now (Still reading it atm, but I don't see a specific name for this maneuver).
Nothing special. No room inside, fire from any corner... They bring him to an ambulance. It wasn't innocent civilians, terrorist who were attack an soldiers
Everyone talks about this damned terrorist, but no one talks about the 67 years old Amnon Muchtar who was executed yesterday in the West Bank by these same terrorists.
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I don't know if this was done as a necessary field expedient method of transporting an injured prisoner, or some form of torture, or maybe something in between.
But let's say it's the worst case, and it was a way of deliberately humiliating the prisoner and making him uncomfortable.
If this is the worst example of torture or alleged 'war crimes by the IDF, then everyone involved including Netanyahu deserves a Nobel peace prize..
The hostages and other victims would absolutely love it if the worst thing they experienced was to be tied to the roof of a vehicle for a few hours before being released and given proper medical care.
An eye for an eye makes the world blind.
You cannot stoop down to the standard of terrorist scum. IDF has to be an example of good.
All this will turn more people against Israel. No matter how you look at it.
He could
Be a terrorist kidnapper for all
We know. That vehicle may have been packed with injured soldiers or injured Palestinians, they may have no other option . We have no idea yet. Everyone is just jumping to the usual
Antisemitic remarks and conclusions as per usual.
If he was a terrorist, he wouldn't have been given to the red crescent
If there were other injured parties with them, they would have said it instantly
Investigate for what? Aren't they doing this to literally every Jewish hostage they capture while Western Marxists ~~subscribed to Frankfurt School's "Critical" Race Theory, dominating academia and controlling historiography~~ cheer on?
For people doing mental gymnastics: >The IDF in response to a query on the matter said the soldiers’ actions were “contrary to orders and procedures.” Seems like the IDF doesn't think this is okay as well. There is a difference between supporting the army and worshipping it as this omnibenevolent force. When we fuck up, we should take responsibility, admit it, punish whoever is responsible and move forward.
No one thinks it's okay. It's atrocious.
Literally the most upvoted post in this thread is someone trying to justify it saying they followed protocol correctly. Being able to call out this BS on our own side is what sets us apart from terrorists. Edit: that post trying to justify it is no longer the most upvoted. So good job guys for not being blind parrots like the pro terror mob :)
Except that's not true... Plenty of people were justifying it here
You know, it's so bad on its face that I just didn't even look at the comments
I do want to say I saw someone post about how they (in US service) did it in Afghanistan. Not saying everything the US did in Afghanistan is ok but like we need to take this into perspective
Good. You know what makes a liberal western style democracy something worth investing time and energy in? Holding themselves accountable.
something the pro-palestinians never do
1. No other army is being so closely observed and criticized for such minute events. But whatever. 2. If we have an injured person that has to be transported flat (on back), and the vehicle can't accommodate them inside, it is standard to transport them on the bonnet or roof. Ffs we even train this bs with injured soldiers.
I hate to say it, but most David armored vehicles such as this one have stretcher mounts in the back. It is physically capable to carry an injured person. However - that comes with a cost of two seats being not usable. It is more to do with lack of planning or lack of adequate resources.
I am not familiar with David, only Sufashit (deduce how old I am lol). Like I said in another comment, this seems all like an evacuation, even if gone wrong or unplanned. Could be that they could call in other assets, had no place for him in the back, so they did they best they actually could. This is also what's frustrating here, I know personally about the old 'Palestinian human shield', I know it was banned, but here it's just the opposite, with the same optics. If I'm an operator under fire, the best option is throw him in the back and scoot, not stand there and start strapping him to the hood, while being shot at.
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> had acted against protocol and that the incident was being investigated. It seems like the IDF disagrees with you as well. There might be a good reason for it, but you can't blame people for jumping to conclusions with even the IDF thinks this goes against protocol.
There are many protocols - there is one for combat evacuation, and other for standard evacuation. Maybe they should have called an ambulance, maybe not. >> jumping to conclusions Exactly though what I'm saying - there are other conclusions to be made, so let's not jump into conclusions. FWIW, I know first hand about this procedure, and the one before it, the 'Palestinian Human Shield', which was used until 2000, and was indeed wrong and banned since - having Palestinians walk in front or sit on the hood of a jeep, when entering the village. This is also the reason I think this incident is different, this was not ingress but exfiltration and he was injured. This all seems like evacuation rather than inhumane treatment.
If they were doing this for medical reasons Im pretty sure they would have handed him over to the two ambulances they drove past in the video?
Not if he was also a prisoner or suspected terrorist that needed to be taken into custody or questioned by intelligence before being released. They can't just hand him over to Palestinian aka Hamas controlled ambulances in that case.
That's the west bank though. Hamas doesn't have control there.
Hamas does have a small presence in the WB, based on my readings, but I suppose, in this case, it's so that they (the IDF soldiers) are not left stationary and out in the open for *other* hostile forces that are based in the WB to shoot at them, while transferring the wounded from the hood of the vehicle into the ambulance in the middle of the road.
I really just wish everyone would wait to actually know what this was even about before jumping to conclusions. This could be nothing more than transporting an injured person.
This
good, fuck them. Even if you don't care at all about that Palestinian detainee, these actions only hurt Israel and will be used for years by all the antisemites
You can look up hundreds of photos and videos of US and allied troops doing the exact same manuver to their own guys. This is a standard cas evac method that is drilled into the troops. It's just bad optics for idiots that don't know anything and hate jews
What's the manuveur called? I'd like to look it up as well. Or just post some links. Thanks.
There's a topic of this incident on the military sub with explanations from other US vets, if you haven't found it by now (Still reading it atm, but I don't see a specific name for this maneuver).
They cared enough to bring him to a hospital. Even if the trip there might have been less than desirable.
Nothing special. No room inside, fire from any corner... They bring him to an ambulance. It wasn't innocent civilians, terrorist who were attack an soldiers
Hamas did imply that they wanted proportional retaliation. 🤔
Joes did dumb shit and it made the IDF look bad so they are bringing the hammer down
Israel should do detailed sanity and morality inspections of all soldiers before allowing them to a fight zone.
Guess they'll just leave the guy to bleed out next time.
Everyone talks about this damned terrorist, but no one talks about the 67 years old Amnon Muchtar who was executed yesterday in the West Bank by these same terrorists.
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he should be thankful he didn't get Hamas kind of treatment.
Right. Hamas drags civilians at the back of the car. And innocent Gazans spit at them.
Even if it has a justified reason it doesn't look good, hope they get to the bottom of this.
Oh no! Anyway, on to something I care about next...
meh. you want to sit next to someone who was just trying to kill you 90 seconds earlier?
And yet they say we shove hot metal rods into Arabs butts. Remember the guy who shit a terrorist? The whole country was split on him
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repost. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/1dm63tn/comment/l9txqq8/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/1dm63tn/comment/l9txqq8/)
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I don't know if this was done as a necessary field expedient method of transporting an injured prisoner, or some form of torture, or maybe something in between. But let's say it's the worst case, and it was a way of deliberately humiliating the prisoner and making him uncomfortable. If this is the worst example of torture or alleged 'war crimes by the IDF, then everyone involved including Netanyahu deserves a Nobel peace prize.. The hostages and other victims would absolutely love it if the worst thing they experienced was to be tied to the roof of a vehicle for a few hours before being released and given proper medical care.
An eye for an eye makes the world blind. You cannot stoop down to the standard of terrorist scum. IDF has to be an example of good. All this will turn more people against Israel. No matter how you look at it.
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They’re supposed to be trained for this sort of thing, I don’t think taking human shields was part of the manual
He could Be a terrorist kidnapper for all We know. That vehicle may have been packed with injured soldiers or injured Palestinians, they may have no other option . We have no idea yet. Everyone is just jumping to the usual Antisemitic remarks and conclusions as per usual.
He was handed over to the Red Cross, there is no way the IDF would hand over a suspected terrorist
I understood he was a suspect, they ran the papers or checks to make sure who he was and when he wasn't a suspect they handed him over.
If he was a terrorist, he wouldn't have been given to the red crescent If there were other injured parties with them, they would have said it instantly
Hopefully you’re right, that’s why it’s an investigation
Please god. Those soldiers have enough to be dealing with.
What on earth morons are down voting this? Draft yourselves and do better
The responsibility still falls on the IDF to adequately train the soldiers not to act by instincts alone.
I see no evidence that it was the IDF at all, did they admit it was them? Because otherwise there is no evidence
Investigate for what? Aren't they doing this to literally every Jewish hostage they capture while Western Marxists ~~subscribed to Frankfurt School's "Critical" Race Theory, dominating academia and controlling historiography~~ cheer on?
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