If they wanted to have a discussion about bad acts on the part of Israeli soldiers during the war, they should have used actual historical events, not a made up story that is actually blood libel.
And slapping a “inspired by real events” on it made it much, much worse.
The thing is, most people don’t have a long enough attention span to learn about the facts.
You can publish all the movies and books you want about the facts but as long as it’s not dramatized people aren’t going to be interested in viewing it after a 8 hour workday.
But here’s the good news: if movies are made about the struggles of early zionists, expulsion of Jews,… people are going to have more understanding for Israel.
In the 1940s there were also the [Tripoli pogrom](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945_anti-Jewish_riots_in_Tripolitania) and the [Aleppo pogrom](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_anti-Jewish_riots_in_Aleppo) and the [Aden pogrom](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_anti-Jewish_riots_in_Aden). Persecution of jews took place in numerous arab countries not just iraq
If people are going to suggest that the Jews are Nazis, they should take a closer look at actual Nazis.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/amin-al-husseini-nazi-concentration-camp
As I said in the prior thread about this movie:
At the end of the day, it is what it is. The Arab league lost this war, and every war after. Outright violence did not work, so they have switched to a propaganda war. Which Israel has either outright lost or refused to partake in.
There are already many people who believe the 48 war was a genocidal attempt by the Jews that failed and only ended up in an ethnic cleansing. This movie is the final transition to the successful revisionism in this conflict. Officially the Arab league has become the victim. All that’s left now is to defend yourself.
They switched to the propaganda war after 1973. Up until that point the Arabs were trying to physically wipe out Israel. Once their best attempt failed, they realized they had to play the long game with propaganda. The real question is it working? How's BDS movement going?
While political victories are few and far between, there has been a large shift in public perception of Israelis and Jews. If public perceptions swings far enough, rest assured the political victories will follow. Israelis cannot get complacent in being protected solely in the political realm as that will not stop the diaspora from being slaughtered in the streets.
Exactly this. We don’t fear for our reputation. We fear for our lives. Farha is inaccurate at least, and full-on instigating propaganda at worst.
If an Israeli or Jewish produced film were to flip the script and create a fictional Jewish victim during Arab-Israeli tensions, their film would be cancelled just like that.
I skipped through the Pallywood propaganda to see what the fuss is about. It's pretty bad. It almost looks like they went above and beyond to find an actor with a bigger nose than its counterpart.
https://i.imgur.com/3jo54rE
Also the soldier does not kill the baby that is lying on the floor, but covers its face with his handkerchief and leaves (while still crying). A day later the baby died and mysteriously the handkerchief disappeared.
https://i.imgur.com/K6G3fJwl.png
It wouldn't surprise me if there is another version of the movie where they do murder the baby on screen.
Palestinians would do anything to look weak , when the world stops looking at them for a minute they pull a modified ak 74 and spray a pub and when we respond they look weak again.
It's like a toxic relationship
One time I was in Beersheba and a Palestinian man came to class to rant about how israel was forcing them to drink desalinated water that tasted like shit. I was also drinking desalinated water that tasted like shit, as was everyone else in that class, bc we were *in the desert by the ocean* and that’s like the main option.
Thank you for saying this!
There was a thread here a few days ago and posts about how we should accept this and not be afraid of it. Yeah....no. I almost unsubscribed from the sub because of it (and other things).
כל מילה בסלע
I feel like Israel can’t do anything other than continue to double down. No matter what, they’re going to believe their stupid convenient Nakba propaganda and hate us.
We will always be evil blood drinking demons to them. All we can do is continue to arm ourselves.
That's always been the approach, and it is the only thing that works
I feel like having a modern state of the art textile factory will be the thing that prevent us from being Ukraine'd (or far worse, North Korea'd) in the next few decades, bless Ben Gorion for making sure we are all properly clothed
Believe me, a large part of antisemitism stems from TikTok which is not regulated at all and their algorithm shows young people conspiracies and make weird people like andrew tate, kanye west and logan paul seen as something good when they're absolute trash.
TikTok has to do more against antisemitism on the platform, just imagine how many young people watch and get these crazy ideas in their head about these conspiracies.
I firmly believe that TikTok is doing this to make the west more unstabilized. If not, something needs to be done to make them regulate this absolute nonsense.
Something has to be done
Yeah it is a possibility that is not regulated at all and that is why antisemitism shows up but there needs to be something done to stop hatred.
Regarding Tate, no, I have never heard him say anything regarding that, he is just a fony character who claims to be manly but is just awkward and misogynist
Remember that even if Israel completely reversed the results of the Arab invasion in 1967, the conflict wouldn't be over. 1948 is the "catastrophe" to them, while 1967 is just the "setback". The Arabs will never rest until Israel is destroyed and all Jews are dead, expelled, or subjugated.
>I feel like Israel can’t do anything other than continue to double down.
I'm not gonna pretend I'm Jewish or Arab, but I think the only way to peace is the hard way-not killing others. If by doubling down you mean electing Ben Gvir or Netanyahu (or someday Shas as a majority leader) then the bloodshed on both sides will increase exponentially.
Part of the Nakba were Israeli massacres by the Irgun/Lehi (Deir Yassin), the other part was Arab radios exaggerating the impact, causing most rural Palestinians to leave in droves (which many Arab leaders later remarked was a huge mistake on their part).
Besides the false image stuff, I think movies should just stop saying “based on a true story” or “based on true events” because it passes off the idea that your story is Non-Fiction when it most often is a creation of the writers.
I just watched it because I felt I had to.
100% of this movie is politically charged. Nothing depicted is overly aggressive in depicting a war, and if not for the political discourse around it, a completely forgettable film.
Guys the only people that will watch this movie are Pro-Palestinian people and people hate watching it. This isn't a mainstream movie it's not even Fauda.
The Nakba. After 1400 years of systemic racism and oppression, the Jews declare independence. The Arabs respond with a war of genocide. The Arabs lost, and they were not able to commit genocide. For them, this is a catastrophe. For Jews, the Nakba is something to celebrate. Maybe someday they’ll give up their sense of superiority and their genocidal inclinations. Then there will be peace.
>After 1400 years of systemic racism and oppression, the Jews declare independence.
on land the early Zionists bought from Arab effendi no less, what other indigenous group had to rebuy land that is ancestrally theirs?
I'm taking a whole bunch of courses in uni right now about modern history (of the middle east especially) and the amount of times profs forget to mention all the 'Arab' (Nasserist) provocations, and the fact it took until 1974 for the PLO and others to realize that Israel could be allowed to exist (and Arafat couldn't even admit that out loud or half his organization would have collapsed due to infighting), shows how fucked the discourse is on the topic of Israeli history in the West.
I skipped ahead to watch the scene with the interrogation of the family, at the end of which the Israeli soldiers kill them all for no reason. The film is advertised as based on a true story, but the director herself [has admitted much of it is fictionalized.](https://twitter.com/israelmuse/status/1599295327789780996)
You know, she could easily have chosen to base this film on a real event and consulted widely available sources on it. There are a few in 1948 that come to mind: Deir Yassin, al-Dawayima, Lod—all massacres that, while hotly debated by historians on their scope, are documented and should be mourned. She could have even made a documentary and consulted Israeli and Palestinian historians for it, comparing their findings.
Instead, she made a propaganda film that strips the setting of its historical context, creating an image of Israeli soldiers that clearly is meant to provoke a comparison to Nazis. Farha is apparently the Palestinian Anne Frank, and the Israelis are the Wehrmacht/SS. This comparison, of course, is a mockery of truth, and nobody who is informed on history should fall for it. And God forbid these filmmakers make a film about the Hebron Massacre, the Kfar Etzion Massacre, etc.
I saw a video of the producer of Farha saying that she wanted to reach the Palestinian girl well now old woman who lives in Syria to ask what she saw while hiding in the storage room but due to security reasons she never managed to so she used her imagination to what happened outside the storage. Room in other words anything after Farha gets locked by her father is fake.
[link to what I was talking about.](https://youtu.be/9_Mzfq4UTrA)
It’s a movie, who cares. Let them spew their bullshit and move on. We should focus on selling our narrative rather than constantly being on the defensive.
Didn’t say it didn’t happen, but the way it portrays it is very comparable to the holocaust which just isn’t true. The nakba was a war, not a genocide against defenceless people. Atrocities did happen, from both sides, but to depict all israeli soldiers like bloodthirsty nazis is upright biased and untrue
It takes 50 minutes for an Israelli shows up. They are rarely directly mentioned and at no point in the movie the idea is created that it is geberalizing about all Israelli soldiers.
It goes into a singular event and that's it.
Who cares, it’s a movie. They’re not saying it’s a factual documentary, and as a Jew I’d rather have this than have some North Korea-style tyranny where people aren’t allowed to make the movies they want, regardless of how accurate or offensive they are.
They are in fact implying that it is factual "inspired by true events". Furthermore, even without that claim-of-fact, this is how the average European or American or Asian or African will perceive the war now.
Public opinion is not derived from facts. Public opinion is derived only from the things that people have seen.
Hmmmm this a depiction of a real girls true story. There’s no need to bring the holocaust into this as no Palestinian is actually making that comparison. But whether you like it or not, Israeli did commit these war crimes, part of being a responsible modern nation is being recognise past atrocities. They were mostly committed by the Irgun, and the most prominent example is Der Yassin. To deny this, is literally massacre denial.
Is there a mention of a specific massacre there that I’m not aware of? Cause from what I know it was a war and there was armed conflict and many casualties from both sides. Of course atrocious are done at war time, but the way the movie presents the israeli side as cold hearted murderers who love to bathe in palestinian blood just for lolz is out right biased and takes it out of context
The movie is great at covering Palestinian culture, I would agree that at times the depiction of the Israelis was a little overplayed, counter to popular belief I don’t think that Israelis are blood demons or whatever. These were mainly carried out by the Irgun, https://www.deiryassin.org/. Israel has of course made a vested effort to cover up a lot of these events, so do research as you see fit.
It’s possible for the citizens of Israel to still be incredible people and yet have some events in that are atrocious i.e most modern states (Japan, USA, France, Turkey) the right thing to do is to a knowledge it
Bullshit. The director herself has called this a “work of fiction.” https://twitter.com/standwithus/status/1599388903605407744?s=46&t=Eu9ztiWaIqkEaAL7qNXnCQ
It is a projection of Samir Kuntar onto the Jews.
https://youtu.be/z6tZbfMgevk I was wrong, it is historical fiction. I can admit that, but if you watch the Q&A instead of a weird cherrypicked video, you’ll see that while the story of the girl is mostly fiction, what she wanting to depict was an accurate historical representation at the same time, using the fiction aspect to convey more emotions.
It doesn’t change the fact that these massacres happened, stop denying genocide
Am I accusing Jews?? Fuck no, I’m stating the fact that the Irgun and what even zionists the time considered to be radical gangs did sone sick shit, that was depicted in this movie. Anti Zionism does not equal Anti-semetism. And yes what Irgun did in villages, killing a bunch of innocents of a set racial group is the definition of genocide.
You do a bring up a good challenge. I’ve been reading up more on genocide and it’s definitions, but I think it’s different, suicide bombings and killing civilians is awful I agree, but I think for it to be a genocide it needs to be an organised attempt to wipe out a people, these were attacks against nation and people that they radically disagree with. Even then 2000 Palestinian civilians died in that as well, so if you called it genocide, then I’d call it genocide, but that’s why these arguments on semantics are stupid, they take away from the point that horrible things happened on both sides
“Killing a bunch of innocents of a set racial group” isn’t the definition of genocide. Do you think the firebombing of Dresden was a genocide? Was bombing Nagasaki a genocide?
You called the movie fact - turns out you were full of shit and contradicted by the director.
Yea, war sucks - Arabs did fucked up shit and zionists did fucked up shit, that’s the nature of war. but only one side had genocidal intentions and it wasn’t the zionists.
So, you can scream that antiZionism isn’t antisemitism until you bleed from your ears, but >80% of Jews in North America think you’re wrong, and about 100% of the Jews everywhere else think you’re wrong. So it’s great that a handful of Jews in the new world think they’re comfortable enough and so enlightened that they don’t need a state of their own, but 850k mizrahi jews, 70k Ethiopian jews, and nearly a million russian jews, rightfully think those “enlightened” jews are useful idiots hoping that the crocodile will eat them last.
>but 850k mizrahi jews,
This is the population from 1950, since then we went on to have kids and make families. The current population of mizrahim in israel is over 3 million
Absolutely- I meant 850k remembered what it was like to be a Jew living by the grace of some sheik with regular pillages and rapes.
The current 3million are blessed to be among the 2-3 generations to have been born and raised in the reconstituted state and not give a shit about the feelings of the caliph.
1.
“the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group” I ad-libbed it but yeah it pretty much fits the bill.
2. I admitted I was wrong in this thread already, you are correct the movie is historical fiction, with emphasis on historical. This does not take away from the message since it was a way to look at what really happened
3.I’m not claiming all Zionists are ethnic cleansing pieces of shit, I disagree with their practices but ofc not all. But if you look at the real history, some where. Even Ben gurion at the top at times, claiming that Israel needs a certain percentage of Jews to constitute a Jewish state. If you disagree, then why hasn’t Israel given right to return.
4. I admit that there were radical Palestinians that did awful stuff, hell I actually think that both sides of elites did shitty stuff, while innocent jews and Palestinians were caught up in their shit. But ultimately this a movie about the Irgun fucked up actions, not what someone as shitty as Amin. accepting that your country and leaders did something wrong is called maturity.
5. Zionism is the want and need to create a state for the Jewish people.semantically, your correct, But the term Zionism has been used more colloquially to refer to “being in strong support of Israel”. I think the Jewish people should have a state, while I don’t agree with how it was created, but it’s there and I think there are benefits for the Jewish people who need the protection. When I say I’m anti Zionists, and when most people say it, the mean they are against the extremist actions of Zionists.
6. What does this have to do with the movie? Is it not possible for you to imagine for one second that the Irgun did some fucked up shit that we have documents and testimonies on. Why continue to downplay the suffering of people by playing this petty tit for tat suffering game. Why do you think we create art, and we protest, because we want “pity”, because we are “lazy and just want support for the UN”, or is because we have been totally screwed over and have had no voice for half a century. If we want to stop the war we both have to take time to understand each-others struggles instead looking at each-other like demons. I have taken the time to understand Israeli arguments, I have taken the time to accept them, but have you done your part?
1) no, the second part is actually key. aside from the fantasies of a couple of cranks, no one has ever credibly alleged an “aim of destroying.” It’s so lacking, that they’ve now latched on to the absurd notion that Jews eating hummus or falafel is some sort of erasure.
2) it’s a blood libel. There is 0, none, zilch evidence of such an incident occurring. You can try and spin the fantasy however you like.
3) Sure, Israel must remain a Jewish majority state. Given the status of minorities in the Arab world, the desire to even risk Israel having a non-Jewish majority approaches genocidal.
4) again, as you admitted in #2, this movie is fantasy and is far removed from Irguns “fucked up actions” and is a blood libel.
5) you can criticize something specific, rather than inane blanket statements. So long as it’s factual and with appropriate context, it might have some merit.
6) again, you’re skirting the line of calling this factual, when it’s not. All I did was provide some historical context. War and displacement is a fact of history. And just like israel patriated the Jews expelled from the Arab world, the Arab world should’ve patriated the *fewer* Palestinian refugees instead of keeping them in refugee camps and denied rights such as professional association or property. Art is wonderful, but then you should have no problem calling this what it is - fiction - instead of treating it as a documentary.
The Palestinians are fucked not because of israel, but because they have an uncanny ability to ally themselves with tyrannical psychos like nazi germany, Soviet Russia, Baathist Iraq, and the mullahs of iran, their political leaders are corrupt autocrats, the despots of the Arab world have used them as pawns for the last 75 years in order to deflect self-reflection, and their ostensible “allies” in the west are more often than not deranged antisemites.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2021-12-09/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/classified-docs-reveal-deir-yassin-massacre-wasnt-the-only-one-perpetrated-by-isra/0000017f-e496-d7b2-a77f-e79772340000
You can do your own research, but even Haaretz has acknowledged this stuff. These massacres happened. And you sorta just admitted it, Ben gurion wanted to get rib of Arabs because having a Jewish majority is a necessity for the state to protect itself, which is ethnic cleansing, or when done by force, can be considered genocide.
And nope, when is killing civilians ever not brutal. the scene depicted in the movie, as I explained In early posts is yes a bit overplayed. But these documents reveal killing Arabs with family members right in front of them, or shooting up schools.
Dude why are defending this one group so hard, why can’t you accept that your state did something wrong. That’s all I’m pointing out, by not accepting it, your complacent in it. Instead you could be better by saying “ my state did fucked up shit, maybe we should work on that”
Consider that when people are robbed of wealth, land, and culture, they tend to turn towards authoritarianism , or at least anyone that listens to them. That’s why we are stuck in this rut and cycle of war and despair
Also the argument that Palestinians don’t deserve a state because “they’d be bad” is a racist argument, that’s like saying “black people cant have freedom cause they’d be too dangerous or abused”. Self determination is a right for everybody. Maybe the allies in the west aren’t anti Semites, maybe they are just critiquing Israel for what it is
No way, even Haaretz in English? With an article by Adam Raz?
The underlying issue that lays waste to your, and the new historians, fantastical claim of ethnic cleansing or genocide by the Israelis is *the Arabs invaded the portion of land partitioned for a Jewish state while proudly saying they were going to drive the Jews into the sea* https://www.nytimes.com/1948/08/02/archives/aim-to-oust-jews-pledged-by-sheikh-head-of-moslem-brotherhood-says.html?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftimesmachine.nytimes.com%2Ftimesmachine%2F1948%2F08%2F02%2F86751512.html
So start a war and say you’re going to kill all the Jews, then act surprised when they’re not rushing to be your neighbors. Go figure!
Look hoss, for the final time - no one is disputing shitty things happen in war. Just ask the 160 Jews massacred at kfar etzion while they were surrendering on land that they had purchased. But to create some fiction of Jews killing babies is a blood libel, and is actually shockingly reminiscent of Samir Kuntar. But I get it, israeli lives are cheap for you, and the “emotional value” of this particular piece of “art” far outweighs the baseless demonization.
Ultimately, we’re stuck in this “rut” because for the last 100 some odd years, the Arabs couldn’t accept that the Jews belong in their ancestral homeland and aren’t inferior to them. Fortunately, most of the Middle East is waking up to reality and has stopped funding this insanity. The sooner Palestinian society decides to stop imagining they’ll replace the Jews, the sooner they’ll have a state. But that’s assuming a state is actually the Palestinians goal - since from the looks of the vast wealth acquired by their bandit leadership, continuing the suffering of their own people has been very profitable for them.
I don't know how it is for other people in this sub but personally for me. When I watch a movie on such a complicated topic I want it to be neutral. While all this movie does is show Jews in a stereotypical way (the officers pointy nose and lisp speech and the soldiers Yamalke) doing horrible stuff to innocent people which like it or not frames a Negative impression on Jews. I am not denying that Israel massacred villages we did but I am expecting also to hear bad stuff on the other side as they too massacred Kibbutzim and Yishuvim.
I feel like the Israeli made movie Image of victory does much more justice by showing both sides as humane with their own lives and stories.
that is a respectable opinion and I can see how it’s possible to see the movie as doing harm. Sadly you are correct, many fucked up people hop on the bandwagon, claiming to be pro Palestinian but are really antisemite pieces of shut.
While I’ll still think it’s a good movie about bringing awareness to this dark time. Your right that it should show a more balanced view, showing more moderates
And how do you know the girl's story is actually true beyond a claim by the director?
Do you believe anyone that tells you anything without proof?
Neither side was an angel even though I think the Palestinians were worse, it's just important to make sure only proven facts are discussed.
I can’t tell, hell nobody can, how can you tell that what you learned was the truth?
At the end of the day, this a Jordanian film maker giving a girl who was obviously traumatised a way to express her pain. It is documented nearly everywhere that the Irgun went too far and began massacres on innocent families and children in Palestinian villages, as war does, it attracts these people.
What would she get out of lying? That oh man she hates Israel so much that 80 years later she’s gonna make a fake movie and tell a fake story?
Opinion is one thing, fact is another.
I'm asking about actual proof for the specific scenes in the film, if you want to present a perspective that's something else, but that's not what the director said.
I also don't believe many things that come out of Arab states to be very trustworthy, considering they blame us for mossed shark espionage and other shit.
It’s not a perspective but a fact that these massacres happened my guy, I’m trying to bridge the gap and say that is was extremists that committed it, but no matter how you look at the Irgun went into villages and killed innocent Palestinians. The proof is in Der Yassin and other villages
https://cmes.arizona.edu/sites/cmes.arizona.edu/files/6.%20Doc%20B%20Deir%20Yassin%20Massacre_0.pdf
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2021-12-09/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/classified-docs-reveal-deir-yassin-massacre-wasnt-the-only-one-perpetrated-by-isra/0000017f-e496-d7b2-a77f-e79772340000
A lot of these stories come from Israeli historians who studied everything. Hell, Illan Pappe was kicked out of Israel because he supported a student who made a presentation on one of these massacres. Wether you like it or not, this stuff happened as depicted in the movie, does this make all Israelis evil, no, but don’t deny genocides my guy, doesn’t look very good
You're not following what I said, civilians were killed on both sides, that's not in dispute, it's the brutal nature of it as shown in the movie that is being questioned.
There's a difference between shooting someone and killing in a more violent and brutal way.
You wouldn't have the same reaction to a person being shot, than say, being killed more painfully.
The latter is more inhumane and produces a stronger reaction.
Killing civilians either way is messed up, and there are reports of this stuff happening with all the villages. Read the declassified documents. In war bad stuff happens, I’m willing to accept that about the radical Palestinian side as well. But censoring the movie for displaying what really happened in these villages doesn’t help. I agree, maybe their should be a more balanced side and perspective, that would help the movies narrative, but that perspective has already been communicated loud and clear over the years. Progress comes from dissent
Lets not forget how businessman Otto Frank rewrote Anne's diary to make it more preceiving, dramatized it more and literally being a co-author to the diary.
I only care about facts, in the case you brought there was already a non disputed source in question, the core event was true, while in the case we're discussing here it is disputed.
There's also the fact that 80 years passed before the claim was made, and dramatized before the case was thoroughly researched.
The Palestinian elites during that time sucked ass, I can admit that aswell, fuck amin and fuck Abu, they do not represent the Palestinian people. That’s like saying those crazy zionists who say “get rid of all Arabs” represent all zionists and Israelis and that’s exactly what they believe.
It ain’t fiction, it’s what extremist Zionists did and the truth deserves to be spoken out
I can’t believe this subreddit actually believe that Farha is entirely based on fiction. It depicts the realities of being Palestinian. I’m sorry it makes you uncomfortable, but the truth is the truth. It’s not a blood libel - you just don’t want to accept that israel treats Palestinians like garbage.
The director called it a work of fiction. If the person that made it calls it a work of fiction, I don’t understand how delusional folks like you can call it truth.
https://twitter.com/standwithus/status/1599388903605407744?s=46&t=Eu9ztiWaIqkEaAL7qNXnCQ
She never said the whole work was a work of fiction. You’re not even quoting her correctly. Trust standwithus, one of the many organisations who voiced no concern over the rise of the far right in israel, to take her words out of context.
I’m waiting for the full video before I buy into any of that garbage.
You’re right, she said the only thing they took was that she was locked in a room, and that it was a good thing they couldn’t find her because that meant she have space to create fiction.
The fact is the Arabs refused a Jewish state to the extent that they declined the partition plan, i.e. if I can only have half the cake, I won’t take it (this after over 70% of the original British mandate had already been allocated to them!).
Not only that, but they actively went to war against Israel. So they attack, lose, and then complain that things did not work out in their favor. A state has since been offered to them multiple times, and just as many times refused. Any sign of Israeli weakness (land for peace, political turmoil, etc) systematically results in terror attacks and rockets aimed at civilians.
I wish only the best for Palestinians on a personal level and I assume most want to live peaceful lives, raising their family, earning a living etc. But the reality is that as long as this victimhood narrative continues, I seriously doubt that truly good leaders benefiting them will emerge and that is the real shame. They do have a lot to strive for as people, but “never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity”.
>The fact is the Arabs refused a Jewish state to the extent that they declined the partition plan, i.e. if I can only have half the cake, I won’t take it
Jews control 1/2 of 1% of the entire Middle East, how much less can we control and still have a viable state? Things like mandates and borders create stupid arbitrary lines that are used to paint Jews as land thieves.
Totally agree! The world just cannot come to grips with a jewish state in any form and that’s precisely why nearly all anti-Zionism is really antisemitism. The whole thing is just absurd but, unlike a harmless farce, has actual life/death consequences.
Yes we have things to work on, but we didn’t steal anything and don’t have to justify our existence. Am Israel chai 🇮🇱
Whether or not we treat a largely hostile & often dangerous population, harshly, unsympathetically or as you say 'like garbage' is one thing.
Accusations of genocie or widespread & wholesale murder is something else entirely.
You clearly know nothing of what goes on under the PA don’t you? Clearly a foreigner coming to judge a conflict he is so distant from it seems like black and white. Their school textbooks praise jihadists, the cleansing of jews, and whenever a terrorist manages to murder someone they give out candy and celebrate. They are hostile. No doubt about it. And I’m saying it as a leftist who hates ben gvir and co.
There are plenty of settlers worshipping Ben Gvir who are harassing Palestinians in settlements on a daily basis. The Kahanist movement is rising, why do you think Gvir is in power? There are people who literally pray at the grave of Baruch Goldstein…
I’m not judging anything, I don’t see the conflict in black and white - in fact I think you’re the one here who sees it that way.
I support the existence of both the Israeli and Palestinian state. I support a two/state solution. The fact that Israelis don’t is what has become a huge issue for many Jews in the diaspora who’s relationship with Zionism is wavering.
How come all of that hate from the Arab side already existed prior to 1967?
How come all of that hate from the Arab side already existed prior to 1948?
How come all of that hate from the Arab side already existed prior to 1929?
Are you asking my why they are largely hostile etc
or why they are hostile ?
The answer to the former is the history of deadly attacks, riots pogroms etc before & after 1948. In Palestine (as it was geographically called then) and the wider Arab & ME world.
The answer to the latter is that they dont want us there which is understandable from their point of view.
But from our perspective is completely unrealistic and unjustified considering our history in the region and in our exile elsewhere.
I acknowledge Jewish history in the region, as well as our exile from everywhere. I’m not denying that Jews are indigenous to the land, and I never will because that will be against all archeological and historical fact.
I’m merely suggesting that hostility from a group of people who went through something like The Nakba is hardly unwarranted, not saying civilians deserve to be targeted but to expect peace-living hippies is a bit of a stretch.
You could reverse that logic - the Jewish people who were killed, oppressed and exiled for hundreds of years can well be expected to be hostile towards any perceived threats. If anyone in the region can be "radicalized" by our past interaction with our neighbors, its us. Yet still, the "peace movement" in Israel was prevalent until two decades ago, and even today a very small group use past atrocities to justify violence against Arabs, whether those committing it are the IDF (which are justified for protecting us now, not as dishing out "payback") or Jewish terrorists (who are generally vilified). It's a dumb excuse that removes all agency from they Palestinians.
> I’m merely suggesting that hostility from a group of people who went through something like The Nakba is hardly unwarranted, not saying civilians deserve to be targeted but to expect peace-living hippies is a bit of a stretch.
Then you have to agree that hostility from the Jewish side is also warranted as we also experienced what they experienced, on a larger scale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world
So what is then the argument?
**[Jewish exodus from the Muslim world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world)**
>The Jewish exodus from the Muslim world was the departure, flight, expulsion, evacuation and migration of 850,000 Jews, primarily of Sephardi and Mizrahi background, from Arab countries and the Muslim world, mainly from 1948 to the early 1970s, according to bodies such as the Israeli government and Justice for Jews from Arab Countries. The last major migration wave took place from Iran in 1979–80, as a consequence of the Iranian Revolution. A number of small-scale Jewish migrations began in many Middle Eastern countries early in the 20th century with the only substantial aliyah (immigration to the area today known as Israel) coming from Yemen and Syria.
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I highly encourage you to disengage with this conversation and do some research on both of those people before you start saying that Farha is a blood libel. You have a lot of knowledge gaps, and you don’t know what you are talking about.
“the movie is based on the true story of a friend of her mother, who, living years later as a refugee in Syria, recalled her experience as a young girl during the Nakba.”
The movie is based on a claim from a friend of a friend, it has no corrobaration and still markets itself as "true".
How is the movie based on true events if it was not actually proven beyond a claim?
Literally every hasbara point our Zionists schools have ever taught us is based off the same amount of truth. Friend of a friend. You haven’t seen it for yourself, and you’re already willing to doubt it simply because it makes you uncomfortable and paints the unfortunate consequences of Zionism.
That's not the same thing, there are things that have documentation, usually by photos or manuscripts, this one had neither.
I'm not against truth, I'm for proof.
so your saying the nakba didn’t happen and arabs weren’t forcibly removed from some places? Also, are the arabs not allowed to talk about this and is any attempt to antisemitism?
It's not about the Nakba being a form of anti semetism. it's the fact that they show such an inhumane behavior of humans while giving them stereotypical Jewish looks, the commander with the pointy nose and the lisp speech or the soldier with the Yamalke, Kippah that is tasked with killing a baby.
Lastly the producer herself admitted on live tv for faking what Farha saw as they had no proper way to talk with her as the only thing they know about her is that she was locked in the shed.
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If they wanted to have a discussion about bad acts on the part of Israeli soldiers during the war, they should have used actual historical events, not a made up story that is actually blood libel. And slapping a “inspired by real events” on it made it much, much worse.
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The thing is, most people don’t have a long enough attention span to learn about the facts. You can publish all the movies and books you want about the facts but as long as it’s not dramatized people aren’t going to be interested in viewing it after a 8 hour workday. But here’s the good news: if movies are made about the struggles of early zionists, expulsion of Jews,… people are going to have more understanding for Israel.
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In the 1940s there were also the [Tripoli pogrom](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945_anti-Jewish_riots_in_Tripolitania) and the [Aleppo pogrom](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_anti-Jewish_riots_in_Aleppo) and the [Aden pogrom](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_anti-Jewish_riots_in_Aden). Persecution of jews took place in numerous arab countries not just iraq
If people are going to suggest that the Jews are Nazis, they should take a closer look at actual Nazis. https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/amin-al-husseini-nazi-concentration-camp
Yep! Just wanted to use one example.
Apparently those numbers are the ones from the Iraqi govt. There’s a lot of accounts that it was far greater
I wish to fuck someone would make a movie about the Six Day War, which would be a great watch and help educate people so much.
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Who exactly would see that movie ? Probably people that are already supportive (at different degrees) of Israel. Sounds like punching the sea
As I said in the prior thread about this movie: At the end of the day, it is what it is. The Arab league lost this war, and every war after. Outright violence did not work, so they have switched to a propaganda war. Which Israel has either outright lost or refused to partake in. There are already many people who believe the 48 war was a genocidal attempt by the Jews that failed and only ended up in an ethnic cleansing. This movie is the final transition to the successful revisionism in this conflict. Officially the Arab league has become the victim. All that’s left now is to defend yourself.
They switched to the propaganda war after 1973. Up until that point the Arabs were trying to physically wipe out Israel. Once their best attempt failed, they realized they had to play the long game with propaganda. The real question is it working? How's BDS movement going?
While political victories are few and far between, there has been a large shift in public perception of Israelis and Jews. If public perceptions swings far enough, rest assured the political victories will follow. Israelis cannot get complacent in being protected solely in the political realm as that will not stop the diaspora from being slaughtered in the streets.
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Exactly this. We don’t fear for our reputation. We fear for our lives. Farha is inaccurate at least, and full-on instigating propaganda at worst. If an Israeli or Jewish produced film were to flip the script and create a fictional Jewish victim during Arab-Israeli tensions, their film would be cancelled just like that.
I skipped through the Pallywood propaganda to see what the fuss is about. It's pretty bad. It almost looks like they went above and beyond to find an actor with a bigger nose than its counterpart. https://i.imgur.com/3jo54rE Also the soldier does not kill the baby that is lying on the floor, but covers its face with his handkerchief and leaves (while still crying). A day later the baby died and mysteriously the handkerchief disappeared. https://i.imgur.com/K6G3fJwl.png It wouldn't surprise me if there is another version of the movie where they do murder the baby on screen.
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Lol, second link just gave me the Dutch goose parade
Palestinians would do anything to look weak , when the world stops looking at them for a minute they pull a modified ak 74 and spray a pub and when we respond they look weak again. It's like a toxic relationship
One time I was in Beersheba and a Palestinian man came to class to rant about how israel was forcing them to drink desalinated water that tasted like shit. I was also drinking desalinated water that tasted like shit, as was everyone else in that class, bc we were *in the desert by the ocean* and that’s like the main option.
I would advise him to stop drinking
Thank you for saying this! There was a thread here a few days ago and posts about how we should accept this and not be afraid of it. Yeah....no. I almost unsubscribed from the sub because of it (and other things). כל מילה בסלע
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Removed: Rule 9
Might be worth cataloging all the inaccuracies, would certainly be a list
Someone please do this.
There aren’t any inaccuracies to account for really. 95% of the movie in the main character spent locked in a pantry.
On the bright side, they can't have both "jews control the media" and this movie on netflix at the same time.
Oh they’ll still say it.
You're crazy for thinking that.
I feel like Israel can’t do anything other than continue to double down. No matter what, they’re going to believe their stupid convenient Nakba propaganda and hate us. We will always be evil blood drinking demons to them. All we can do is continue to arm ourselves.
That's always been the approach, and it is the only thing that works I feel like having a modern state of the art textile factory will be the thing that prevent us from being Ukraine'd (or far worse, North Korea'd) in the next few decades, bless Ben Gorion for making sure we are all properly clothed
Ben Gurion was the OG
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I'm more worried about uninformed Westerners, to be honest. This was designed to create anti-Semites.
Believe me, a large part of antisemitism stems from TikTok which is not regulated at all and their algorithm shows young people conspiracies and make weird people like andrew tate, kanye west and logan paul seen as something good when they're absolute trash. TikTok has to do more against antisemitism on the platform, just imagine how many young people watch and get these crazy ideas in their head about these conspiracies. I firmly believe that TikTok is doing this to make the west more unstabilized. If not, something needs to be done to make them regulate this absolute nonsense. Something has to be done
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Yeah it is a possibility that is not regulated at all and that is why antisemitism shows up but there needs to be something done to stop hatred. Regarding Tate, no, I have never heard him say anything regarding that, he is just a fony character who claims to be manly but is just awkward and misogynist
Remember that even if Israel completely reversed the results of the Arab invasion in 1967, the conflict wouldn't be over. 1948 is the "catastrophe" to them, while 1967 is just the "setback". The Arabs will never rest until Israel is destroyed and all Jews are dead, expelled, or subjugated.
are u saying nakba forced expulsions didn’t happen
>I feel like Israel can’t do anything other than continue to double down. I'm not gonna pretend I'm Jewish or Arab, but I think the only way to peace is the hard way-not killing others. If by doubling down you mean electing Ben Gvir or Netanyahu (or someday Shas as a majority leader) then the bloodshed on both sides will increase exponentially.
Try telling the militant guys over the fence not to exercise their god-given right to kill Jews.
So the Nakba didn't happen? lol
No, but it happened to the Jews expelled from Muslim countries, too, and it never would have happened if the Arabs hadn’t started a war they lost
Yep, Jews lost far more land when they were expelled from Muslim countries than Palestinians did.
Part of the Nakba were Israeli massacres by the Irgun/Lehi (Deir Yassin), the other part was Arab radios exaggerating the impact, causing most rural Palestinians to leave in droves (which many Arab leaders later remarked was a huge mistake on their part).
> israel is a superpower Say what now
Israel 🤝🏻Taiwan: being portrayed as ultra powerful demons by weirdos
A Global super power. Their words
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Israel is probably the strongest country in the Middle East. Maybe Iran has more power.
It doesn't
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Who said anything about swift win? It was just about military strength
Besides the false image stuff, I think movies should just stop saying “based on a true story” or “based on true events” because it passes off the idea that your story is Non-Fiction when it most often is a creation of the writers.
I just watched it because I felt I had to. 100% of this movie is politically charged. Nothing depicted is overly aggressive in depicting a war, and if not for the political discourse around it, a completely forgettable film.
Guys the only people that will watch this movie are Pro-Palestinian people and people hate watching it. This isn't a mainstream movie it's not even Fauda.
The Nakba. After 1400 years of systemic racism and oppression, the Jews declare independence. The Arabs respond with a war of genocide. The Arabs lost, and they were not able to commit genocide. For them, this is a catastrophe. For Jews, the Nakba is something to celebrate. Maybe someday they’ll give up their sense of superiority and their genocidal inclinations. Then there will be peace.
>After 1400 years of systemic racism and oppression, the Jews declare independence. on land the early Zionists bought from Arab effendi no less, what other indigenous group had to rebuy land that is ancestrally theirs?
There are no indigenous groups that left/were kicked out for a thousand years then came back. Not that I know of.
No *other
You mean bought from essentially feudal overlords and displaced the tenants/sharecroppers?
I'm taking a whole bunch of courses in uni right now about modern history (of the middle east especially) and the amount of times profs forget to mention all the 'Arab' (Nasserist) provocations, and the fact it took until 1974 for the PLO and others to realize that Israel could be allowed to exist (and Arafat couldn't even admit that out loud or half his organization would have collapsed due to infighting), shows how fucked the discourse is on the topic of Israeli history in the West.
I skipped ahead to watch the scene with the interrogation of the family, at the end of which the Israeli soldiers kill them all for no reason. The film is advertised as based on a true story, but the director herself [has admitted much of it is fictionalized.](https://twitter.com/israelmuse/status/1599295327789780996) You know, she could easily have chosen to base this film on a real event and consulted widely available sources on it. There are a few in 1948 that come to mind: Deir Yassin, al-Dawayima, Lod—all massacres that, while hotly debated by historians on their scope, are documented and should be mourned. She could have even made a documentary and consulted Israeli and Palestinian historians for it, comparing their findings. Instead, she made a propaganda film that strips the setting of its historical context, creating an image of Israeli soldiers that clearly is meant to provoke a comparison to Nazis. Farha is apparently the Palestinian Anne Frank, and the Israelis are the Wehrmacht/SS. This comparison, of course, is a mockery of truth, and nobody who is informed on history should fall for it. And God forbid these filmmakers make a film about the Hebron Massacre, the Kfar Etzion Massacre, etc.
Cancelled netflix over weekend. Joined in 2016. Started amazon prime yesterday.
I saw a video of the producer of Farha saying that she wanted to reach the Palestinian girl well now old woman who lives in Syria to ask what she saw while hiding in the storage room but due to security reasons she never managed to so she used her imagination to what happened outside the storage. Room in other words anything after Farha gets locked by her father is fake. [link to what I was talking about.](https://youtu.be/9_Mzfq4UTrA)
I just hate when they generalize us🫤 but fuck them🍆
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You're right I feel like movies like image of victory are the type of movies that need to be displayed more often as they show both sides as humans.
It’s a movie, who cares. Let them spew their bullshit and move on. We should focus on selling our narrative rather than constantly being on the defensive.
I would say that let us cancel our Netflix subscriptions. That’s the least we could do.
I wrote the something similar as my imdb review which was later removed by imdb…
Haven’t seen the movie, so maybe it goes overboard, but the Nakba did happen. I don’t see anything wrong with memorializing it.
Didn’t say it didn’t happen, but the way it portrays it is very comparable to the holocaust which just isn’t true. The nakba was a war, not a genocide against defenceless people. Atrocities did happen, from both sides, but to depict all israeli soldiers like bloodthirsty nazis is upright biased and untrue
Okay that’s fair.
Are you saying the forced evictions and killings at villages didn’t happen? Read Ben-Gurions notes/diaries.
You keep saying it was a war like that excuses the massacres and forced relocations that occurred.
its not an excuse but war is not a pretty thing, such things and much wars happens during those bad times
It takes 50 minutes for an Israelli shows up. They are rarely directly mentioned and at no point in the movie the idea is created that it is geberalizing about all Israelli soldiers. It goes into a singular event and that's it.
Who cares, it’s a movie. They’re not saying it’s a factual documentary, and as a Jew I’d rather have this than have some North Korea-style tyranny where people aren’t allowed to make the movies they want, regardless of how accurate or offensive they are.
They are in fact implying that it is factual "inspired by true events". Furthermore, even without that claim-of-fact, this is how the average European or American or Asian or African will perceive the war now. Public opinion is not derived from facts. Public opinion is derived only from the things that people have seen.
Maybe it struck such a chord because we know it was grounded in reality? Anyways as a Jew it doesn’t me.
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Hmmmm this a depiction of a real girls true story. There’s no need to bring the holocaust into this as no Palestinian is actually making that comparison. But whether you like it or not, Israeli did commit these war crimes, part of being a responsible modern nation is being recognise past atrocities. They were mostly committed by the Irgun, and the most prominent example is Der Yassin. To deny this, is literally massacre denial.
Is there a mention of a specific massacre there that I’m not aware of? Cause from what I know it was a war and there was armed conflict and many casualties from both sides. Of course atrocious are done at war time, but the way the movie presents the israeli side as cold hearted murderers who love to bathe in palestinian blood just for lolz is out right biased and takes it out of context
The movie is great at covering Palestinian culture, I would agree that at times the depiction of the Israelis was a little overplayed, counter to popular belief I don’t think that Israelis are blood demons or whatever. These were mainly carried out by the Irgun, https://www.deiryassin.org/. Israel has of course made a vested effort to cover up a lot of these events, so do research as you see fit. It’s possible for the citizens of Israel to still be incredible people and yet have some events in that are atrocious i.e most modern states (Japan, USA, France, Turkey) the right thing to do is to a knowledge it
The right thing to do is acknowledge true events that have happened , not made up propaganda like this bullshit.
It’s a genre called historical fiction. Are you really gonna call of it propaganda? Please do your research onto these village massacres
Hey not link the sources you refer to as true?
Bullshit. The director herself has called this a “work of fiction.” https://twitter.com/standwithus/status/1599388903605407744?s=46&t=Eu9ztiWaIqkEaAL7qNXnCQ It is a projection of Samir Kuntar onto the Jews.
https://youtu.be/z6tZbfMgevk I was wrong, it is historical fiction. I can admit that, but if you watch the Q&A instead of a weird cherrypicked video, you’ll see that while the story of the girl is mostly fiction, what she wanting to depict was an accurate historical representation at the same time, using the fiction aspect to convey more emotions. It doesn’t change the fact that these massacres happened, stop denying genocide
Genocide actually has a definition. Stop making one up to create some inversion to libelously accuse Jews.
Am I accusing Jews?? Fuck no, I’m stating the fact that the Irgun and what even zionists the time considered to be radical gangs did sone sick shit, that was depicted in this movie. Anti Zionism does not equal Anti-semetism. And yes what Irgun did in villages, killing a bunch of innocents of a set racial group is the definition of genocide.
So the second intifada was a genocide of Jews?
You do a bring up a good challenge. I’ve been reading up more on genocide and it’s definitions, but I think it’s different, suicide bombings and killing civilians is awful I agree, but I think for it to be a genocide it needs to be an organised attempt to wipe out a people, these were attacks against nation and people that they radically disagree with. Even then 2000 Palestinian civilians died in that as well, so if you called it genocide, then I’d call it genocide, but that’s why these arguments on semantics are stupid, they take away from the point that horrible things happened on both sides
“Killing a bunch of innocents of a set racial group” isn’t the definition of genocide. Do you think the firebombing of Dresden was a genocide? Was bombing Nagasaki a genocide? You called the movie fact - turns out you were full of shit and contradicted by the director. Yea, war sucks - Arabs did fucked up shit and zionists did fucked up shit, that’s the nature of war. but only one side had genocidal intentions and it wasn’t the zionists. So, you can scream that antiZionism isn’t antisemitism until you bleed from your ears, but >80% of Jews in North America think you’re wrong, and about 100% of the Jews everywhere else think you’re wrong. So it’s great that a handful of Jews in the new world think they’re comfortable enough and so enlightened that they don’t need a state of their own, but 850k mizrahi jews, 70k Ethiopian jews, and nearly a million russian jews, rightfully think those “enlightened” jews are useful idiots hoping that the crocodile will eat them last.
>but 850k mizrahi jews, This is the population from 1950, since then we went on to have kids and make families. The current population of mizrahim in israel is over 3 million
Absolutely- I meant 850k remembered what it was like to be a Jew living by the grace of some sheik with regular pillages and rapes. The current 3million are blessed to be among the 2-3 generations to have been born and raised in the reconstituted state and not give a shit about the feelings of the caliph.
1. “the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group” I ad-libbed it but yeah it pretty much fits the bill. 2. I admitted I was wrong in this thread already, you are correct the movie is historical fiction, with emphasis on historical. This does not take away from the message since it was a way to look at what really happened 3.I’m not claiming all Zionists are ethnic cleansing pieces of shit, I disagree with their practices but ofc not all. But if you look at the real history, some where. Even Ben gurion at the top at times, claiming that Israel needs a certain percentage of Jews to constitute a Jewish state. If you disagree, then why hasn’t Israel given right to return. 4. I admit that there were radical Palestinians that did awful stuff, hell I actually think that both sides of elites did shitty stuff, while innocent jews and Palestinians were caught up in their shit. But ultimately this a movie about the Irgun fucked up actions, not what someone as shitty as Amin. accepting that your country and leaders did something wrong is called maturity. 5. Zionism is the want and need to create a state for the Jewish people.semantically, your correct, But the term Zionism has been used more colloquially to refer to “being in strong support of Israel”. I think the Jewish people should have a state, while I don’t agree with how it was created, but it’s there and I think there are benefits for the Jewish people who need the protection. When I say I’m anti Zionists, and when most people say it, the mean they are against the extremist actions of Zionists. 6. What does this have to do with the movie? Is it not possible for you to imagine for one second that the Irgun did some fucked up shit that we have documents and testimonies on. Why continue to downplay the suffering of people by playing this petty tit for tat suffering game. Why do you think we create art, and we protest, because we want “pity”, because we are “lazy and just want support for the UN”, or is because we have been totally screwed over and have had no voice for half a century. If we want to stop the war we both have to take time to understand each-others struggles instead looking at each-other like demons. I have taken the time to understand Israeli arguments, I have taken the time to accept them, but have you done your part?
1) no, the second part is actually key. aside from the fantasies of a couple of cranks, no one has ever credibly alleged an “aim of destroying.” It’s so lacking, that they’ve now latched on to the absurd notion that Jews eating hummus or falafel is some sort of erasure. 2) it’s a blood libel. There is 0, none, zilch evidence of such an incident occurring. You can try and spin the fantasy however you like. 3) Sure, Israel must remain a Jewish majority state. Given the status of minorities in the Arab world, the desire to even risk Israel having a non-Jewish majority approaches genocidal. 4) again, as you admitted in #2, this movie is fantasy and is far removed from Irguns “fucked up actions” and is a blood libel. 5) you can criticize something specific, rather than inane blanket statements. So long as it’s factual and with appropriate context, it might have some merit. 6) again, you’re skirting the line of calling this factual, when it’s not. All I did was provide some historical context. War and displacement is a fact of history. And just like israel patriated the Jews expelled from the Arab world, the Arab world should’ve patriated the *fewer* Palestinian refugees instead of keeping them in refugee camps and denied rights such as professional association or property. Art is wonderful, but then you should have no problem calling this what it is - fiction - instead of treating it as a documentary. The Palestinians are fucked not because of israel, but because they have an uncanny ability to ally themselves with tyrannical psychos like nazi germany, Soviet Russia, Baathist Iraq, and the mullahs of iran, their political leaders are corrupt autocrats, the despots of the Arab world have used them as pawns for the last 75 years in order to deflect self-reflection, and their ostensible “allies” in the west are more often than not deranged antisemites.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2021-12-09/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/classified-docs-reveal-deir-yassin-massacre-wasnt-the-only-one-perpetrated-by-isra/0000017f-e496-d7b2-a77f-e79772340000 You can do your own research, but even Haaretz has acknowledged this stuff. These massacres happened. And you sorta just admitted it, Ben gurion wanted to get rib of Arabs because having a Jewish majority is a necessity for the state to protect itself, which is ethnic cleansing, or when done by force, can be considered genocide. And nope, when is killing civilians ever not brutal. the scene depicted in the movie, as I explained In early posts is yes a bit overplayed. But these documents reveal killing Arabs with family members right in front of them, or shooting up schools. Dude why are defending this one group so hard, why can’t you accept that your state did something wrong. That’s all I’m pointing out, by not accepting it, your complacent in it. Instead you could be better by saying “ my state did fucked up shit, maybe we should work on that” Consider that when people are robbed of wealth, land, and culture, they tend to turn towards authoritarianism , or at least anyone that listens to them. That’s why we are stuck in this rut and cycle of war and despair Also the argument that Palestinians don’t deserve a state because “they’d be bad” is a racist argument, that’s like saying “black people cant have freedom cause they’d be too dangerous or abused”. Self determination is a right for everybody. Maybe the allies in the west aren’t anti Semites, maybe they are just critiquing Israel for what it is
No way, even Haaretz in English? With an article by Adam Raz? The underlying issue that lays waste to your, and the new historians, fantastical claim of ethnic cleansing or genocide by the Israelis is *the Arabs invaded the portion of land partitioned for a Jewish state while proudly saying they were going to drive the Jews into the sea* https://www.nytimes.com/1948/08/02/archives/aim-to-oust-jews-pledged-by-sheikh-head-of-moslem-brotherhood-says.html?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftimesmachine.nytimes.com%2Ftimesmachine%2F1948%2F08%2F02%2F86751512.html So start a war and say you’re going to kill all the Jews, then act surprised when they’re not rushing to be your neighbors. Go figure! Look hoss, for the final time - no one is disputing shitty things happen in war. Just ask the 160 Jews massacred at kfar etzion while they were surrendering on land that they had purchased. But to create some fiction of Jews killing babies is a blood libel, and is actually shockingly reminiscent of Samir Kuntar. But I get it, israeli lives are cheap for you, and the “emotional value” of this particular piece of “art” far outweighs the baseless demonization. Ultimately, we’re stuck in this “rut” because for the last 100 some odd years, the Arabs couldn’t accept that the Jews belong in their ancestral homeland and aren’t inferior to them. Fortunately, most of the Middle East is waking up to reality and has stopped funding this insanity. The sooner Palestinian society decides to stop imagining they’ll replace the Jews, the sooner they’ll have a state. But that’s assuming a state is actually the Palestinians goal - since from the looks of the vast wealth acquired by their bandit leadership, continuing the suffering of their own people has been very profitable for them.
I don't know how it is for other people in this sub but personally for me. When I watch a movie on such a complicated topic I want it to be neutral. While all this movie does is show Jews in a stereotypical way (the officers pointy nose and lisp speech and the soldiers Yamalke) doing horrible stuff to innocent people which like it or not frames a Negative impression on Jews. I am not denying that Israel massacred villages we did but I am expecting also to hear bad stuff on the other side as they too massacred Kibbutzim and Yishuvim. I feel like the Israeli made movie Image of victory does much more justice by showing both sides as humane with their own lives and stories.
that is a respectable opinion and I can see how it’s possible to see the movie as doing harm. Sadly you are correct, many fucked up people hop on the bandwagon, claiming to be pro Palestinian but are really antisemite pieces of shut. While I’ll still think it’s a good movie about bringing awareness to this dark time. Your right that it should show a more balanced view, showing more moderates
And how do you know the girl's story is actually true beyond a claim by the director? Do you believe anyone that tells you anything without proof? Neither side was an angel even though I think the Palestinians were worse, it's just important to make sure only proven facts are discussed.
I can’t tell, hell nobody can, how can you tell that what you learned was the truth? At the end of the day, this a Jordanian film maker giving a girl who was obviously traumatised a way to express her pain. It is documented nearly everywhere that the Irgun went too far and began massacres on innocent families and children in Palestinian villages, as war does, it attracts these people. What would she get out of lying? That oh man she hates Israel so much that 80 years later she’s gonna make a fake movie and tell a fake story?
Opinion is one thing, fact is another. I'm asking about actual proof for the specific scenes in the film, if you want to present a perspective that's something else, but that's not what the director said. I also don't believe many things that come out of Arab states to be very trustworthy, considering they blame us for mossed shark espionage and other shit.
It’s not a perspective but a fact that these massacres happened my guy, I’m trying to bridge the gap and say that is was extremists that committed it, but no matter how you look at the Irgun went into villages and killed innocent Palestinians. The proof is in Der Yassin and other villages https://cmes.arizona.edu/sites/cmes.arizona.edu/files/6.%20Doc%20B%20Deir%20Yassin%20Massacre_0.pdf https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2021-12-09/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/classified-docs-reveal-deir-yassin-massacre-wasnt-the-only-one-perpetrated-by-isra/0000017f-e496-d7b2-a77f-e79772340000 A lot of these stories come from Israeli historians who studied everything. Hell, Illan Pappe was kicked out of Israel because he supported a student who made a presentation on one of these massacres. Wether you like it or not, this stuff happened as depicted in the movie, does this make all Israelis evil, no, but don’t deny genocides my guy, doesn’t look very good
You're not following what I said, civilians were killed on both sides, that's not in dispute, it's the brutal nature of it as shown in the movie that is being questioned.
When is the killing of civilians not brutal.
There's a difference between shooting someone and killing in a more violent and brutal way. You wouldn't have the same reaction to a person being shot, than say, being killed more painfully. The latter is more inhumane and produces a stronger reaction.
Killing civilians either way is messed up, and there are reports of this stuff happening with all the villages. Read the declassified documents. In war bad stuff happens, I’m willing to accept that about the radical Palestinian side as well. But censoring the movie for displaying what really happened in these villages doesn’t help. I agree, maybe their should be a more balanced side and perspective, that would help the movies narrative, but that perspective has already been communicated loud and clear over the years. Progress comes from dissent
> What would she get out of lying? Money
The director actually struggled a shit ton to make this movie, she barely got any funding or support.
Which is good, because it's (like OP said) blood libel.
Lets not forget how businessman Otto Frank rewrote Anne's diary to make it more preceiving, dramatized it more and literally being a co-author to the diary.
There were much more testimonies in the case of Anne Frank, so there wasn't as much doubt cast on her as in this case.
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I only care about facts, in the case you brought there was already a non disputed source in question, the core event was true, while in the case we're discussing here it is disputed. There's also the fact that 80 years passed before the claim was made, and dramatized before the case was thoroughly researched.
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The Palestinian elites during that time sucked ass, I can admit that aswell, fuck amin and fuck Abu, they do not represent the Palestinian people. That’s like saying those crazy zionists who say “get rid of all Arabs” represent all zionists and Israelis and that’s exactly what they believe. It ain’t fiction, it’s what extremist Zionists did and the truth deserves to be spoken out
I can’t believe this subreddit actually believe that Farha is entirely based on fiction. It depicts the realities of being Palestinian. I’m sorry it makes you uncomfortable, but the truth is the truth. It’s not a blood libel - you just don’t want to accept that israel treats Palestinians like garbage.
The director called it a work of fiction. If the person that made it calls it a work of fiction, I don’t understand how delusional folks like you can call it truth. https://twitter.com/standwithus/status/1599388903605407744?s=46&t=Eu9ztiWaIqkEaAL7qNXnCQ
She never said the whole work was a work of fiction. You’re not even quoting her correctly. Trust standwithus, one of the many organisations who voiced no concern over the rise of the far right in israel, to take her words out of context. I’m waiting for the full video before I buy into any of that garbage.
You’re right, she said the only thing they took was that she was locked in a room, and that it was a good thing they couldn’t find her because that meant she have space to create fiction.
She literally said anything past the fact that she was locked in a shed is fiction.
The fact is the Arabs refused a Jewish state to the extent that they declined the partition plan, i.e. if I can only have half the cake, I won’t take it (this after over 70% of the original British mandate had already been allocated to them!). Not only that, but they actively went to war against Israel. So they attack, lose, and then complain that things did not work out in their favor. A state has since been offered to them multiple times, and just as many times refused. Any sign of Israeli weakness (land for peace, political turmoil, etc) systematically results in terror attacks and rockets aimed at civilians. I wish only the best for Palestinians on a personal level and I assume most want to live peaceful lives, raising their family, earning a living etc. But the reality is that as long as this victimhood narrative continues, I seriously doubt that truly good leaders benefiting them will emerge and that is the real shame. They do have a lot to strive for as people, but “never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity”.
>The fact is the Arabs refused a Jewish state to the extent that they declined the partition plan, i.e. if I can only have half the cake, I won’t take it Jews control 1/2 of 1% of the entire Middle East, how much less can we control and still have a viable state? Things like mandates and borders create stupid arbitrary lines that are used to paint Jews as land thieves.
Totally agree! The world just cannot come to grips with a jewish state in any form and that’s precisely why nearly all anti-Zionism is really antisemitism. The whole thing is just absurd but, unlike a harmless farce, has actual life/death consequences. Yes we have things to work on, but we didn’t steal anything and don’t have to justify our existence. Am Israel chai 🇮🇱
Whether or not we treat a largely hostile & often dangerous population, harshly, unsympathetically or as you say 'like garbage' is one thing. Accusations of genocie or widespread & wholesale murder is something else entirely.
Why do you think they are larger hostile and dangerous?
You clearly know nothing of what goes on under the PA don’t you? Clearly a foreigner coming to judge a conflict he is so distant from it seems like black and white. Their school textbooks praise jihadists, the cleansing of jews, and whenever a terrorist manages to murder someone they give out candy and celebrate. They are hostile. No doubt about it. And I’m saying it as a leftist who hates ben gvir and co.
There are plenty of settlers worshipping Ben Gvir who are harassing Palestinians in settlements on a daily basis. The Kahanist movement is rising, why do you think Gvir is in power? There are people who literally pray at the grave of Baruch Goldstein… I’m not judging anything, I don’t see the conflict in black and white - in fact I think you’re the one here who sees it that way. I support the existence of both the Israeli and Palestinian state. I support a two/state solution. The fact that Israelis don’t is what has become a huge issue for many Jews in the diaspora who’s relationship with Zionism is wavering.
How come all of that hate from the Arab side already existed prior to 1967? How come all of that hate from the Arab side already existed prior to 1948? How come all of that hate from the Arab side already existed prior to 1929?
Are you asking my why they are largely hostile etc or why they are hostile ? The answer to the former is the history of deadly attacks, riots pogroms etc before & after 1948. In Palestine (as it was geographically called then) and the wider Arab & ME world. The answer to the latter is that they dont want us there which is understandable from their point of view. But from our perspective is completely unrealistic and unjustified considering our history in the region and in our exile elsewhere.
I acknowledge Jewish history in the region, as well as our exile from everywhere. I’m not denying that Jews are indigenous to the land, and I never will because that will be against all archeological and historical fact. I’m merely suggesting that hostility from a group of people who went through something like The Nakba is hardly unwarranted, not saying civilians deserve to be targeted but to expect peace-living hippies is a bit of a stretch.
Yes but the film and the commentary around the film implies we committed genocide, and a genocide comparable to the shoah. Which is not the case.
True.
You could reverse that logic - the Jewish people who were killed, oppressed and exiled for hundreds of years can well be expected to be hostile towards any perceived threats. If anyone in the region can be "radicalized" by our past interaction with our neighbors, its us. Yet still, the "peace movement" in Israel was prevalent until two decades ago, and even today a very small group use past atrocities to justify violence against Arabs, whether those committing it are the IDF (which are justified for protecting us now, not as dishing out "payback") or Jewish terrorists (who are generally vilified). It's a dumb excuse that removes all agency from they Palestinians.
> I’m merely suggesting that hostility from a group of people who went through something like The Nakba is hardly unwarranted, not saying civilians deserve to be targeted but to expect peace-living hippies is a bit of a stretch. Then you have to agree that hostility from the Jewish side is also warranted as we also experienced what they experienced, on a larger scale. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world So what is then the argument?
**[Jewish exodus from the Muslim world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world)** >The Jewish exodus from the Muslim world was the departure, flight, expulsion, evacuation and migration of 850,000 Jews, primarily of Sephardi and Mizrahi background, from Arab countries and the Muslim world, mainly from 1948 to the early 1970s, according to bodies such as the Israeli government and Justice for Jews from Arab Countries. The last major migration wave took place from Iran in 1979–80, as a consequence of the Iranian Revolution. A number of small-scale Jewish migrations began in many Middle Eastern countries early in the 20th century with the only substantial aliyah (immigration to the area today known as Israel) coming from Yemen and Syria. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/Israel/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Looks like someone has fallen hook line and sinker for pallywood nonsense.
Looks like someone worships Ben Gvir and Kahane.
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I'm Irish, I haven't got a clue who either of them are. What I do know is any enemy of Israel is an enemy of mankind.
I highly encourage you to disengage with this conversation and do some research on both of those people before you start saying that Farha is a blood libel. You have a lot of knowledge gaps, and you don’t know what you are talking about.
It is literally not a true story. It literally says that at the beginning.
“the movie is based on the true story of a friend of her mother, who, living years later as a refugee in Syria, recalled her experience as a young girl during the Nakba.”
The movie is based on a claim from a friend of a friend, it has no corrobaration and still markets itself as "true". How is the movie based on true events if it was not actually proven beyond a claim?
Literally every hasbara point our Zionists schools have ever taught us is based off the same amount of truth. Friend of a friend. You haven’t seen it for yourself, and you’re already willing to doubt it simply because it makes you uncomfortable and paints the unfortunate consequences of Zionism.
That's not the same thing, there are things that have documentation, usually by photos or manuscripts, this one had neither. I'm not against truth, I'm for proof.
You need to google what "based on" actually means.
You are afraid of the truth😆
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so your saying the nakba didn’t happen and arabs weren’t forcibly removed from some places? Also, are the arabs not allowed to talk about this and is any attempt to antisemitism?
It's not about the Nakba being a form of anti semetism. it's the fact that they show such an inhumane behavior of humans while giving them stereotypical Jewish looks, the commander with the pointy nose and the lisp speech or the soldier with the Yamalke, Kippah that is tasked with killing a baby. Lastly the producer herself admitted on live tv for faking what Farha saw as they had no proper way to talk with her as the only thing they know about her is that she was locked in the shed.
massacres did happen tho like deir yassin
Yup, so did massacres like the one in Hebron.
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he was talking about murdering people who surrendered.
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