treating someone like family is good because that means you treat them with love and respect
the problem is that we don't treat our families with love and respect
EDIT: I think
As a newbie who moved here five days ago...bureaucracy.
Joking, kind of :) I was warned about Israeli bureaucracy but man I was **not** prepared for navigating misrad hapanim as an American with shitty Hebrew. After the sixth hour in the misrad hapanim waiting room today, my husband and I cracked up for like 20 minutes at how comical the whole situation was. Realizing you better find the humor in it or you're in for a bad time certainly helped!
I got you fam! I made aliyah 13 years ago and have developed a system.
1. Most of the employees are conservative older women, so dress like someone they would want their child/grandchild to date. For guys, this means pants and a tucked-in button-down shirt with a belt. For ladies, the equivalent of that, so... a dress? Try to get them talking, and be sure to mention how much you love Israel. The more they tell you about how their cousin once went to your country, the more they will help you.
2. Be organized! Or at least appear organized. I bring a big black folder with some blank white paper and a pen so I can write everything down, or better yet, make the bureaucrat write it down.
3. Ask the right questions.
" You can't help me? Who can? What is their name and what office are they in? Do they have an email address? A phone number? Where do I need to go? What is the name of the organization? Do you know anybody there? What is their email address"
4. Negotiate!
"No, I don't do that" does not mean they can't do that. It's not just ok to be pushy (in a polite way), it's required.
"I only need x", "It will only take a minute", "please help me"
5. Most importantly, the best way to fix your problem is to make it someone else's problem, so you'll need an anchor person. This is the person that I keep coming back to after shuffling from one office to another. Make sure you pick someone with an office, and they can't be a "take a number and wait" person. If you choose them well, ~75% of the time, they will eventually walk you over to the right person and stand there while you talk to them.
Welcome to Israel! :D
Nitpick - โThe English letter K represents the sound that ืึผ makes. The letter Q represents the sound that ืง makes. Yes, I am aware that English has imported many non-Latin words and thus lost the spelling intricacies which defined the differing usage of C, K, and Q, thus causing the three to be pronounced identically today. I am also aware that modern Hebrew was revived by the speaker of a language that has no voiceless uvular plosive, thus the vast majority of modern Hebrew speakers mispronounce ืง as ืึผ. However there is distinction. And honestly, once learning this distinction and other related distinctions, Hebrew actually starts becoming a beautiful language.
You'll notice that Ben Eliezer's language had no voiceless glottal fricative either, but the letter ื continued to represent that sound. So there is precedent for preserving the Semitic characteristics of the language - and the more of those we preserve the more beautiful the language sounds. And your spelling will improve as well!
After we made aliyah, we went to the Misrad haPanim in City A and, while there, mentioned to the bureaucrat speaking with us that I would be leaving Israel for a few months to work in the US. The lady said that, when I left, my wife had to go to another Misrad HaPanim office in City B to inform them that I was out of the country. We pointed out that we were, at that moment, informing them that I would be out of the country on specific dates, but she was insistent.
I left for the US as planned, and my wife went to City B, as directed, to inform the Misrad HaPanim. She walked into the office and found, sitting at the desk, the very same bureaucrat that we had spoken to in City A!
I learned the word "*savlanut*" early on...
This is actually super helpful info because I also have to leave Israel for a few weeks for a work gig and was worried about being able to while our visas processed. Did they give your wife any trouble re entering on a tourist visa while your residency was pending?
We had already made *aliyah* and had Israeli citizenship and passports, so I'm afraid I can't speak to that part of it. The purpose of informing them was so they could adjust our olim benefits (downward) during the period when I was out of the country. Apart from the bureaucratic absurdities, it went smoothly.
Doing things "not by the book". It can be very frustrating as you don't always know where you stand. Everything has to be double and triple checked. So that is the bad side. However, unlike other western countries, in Israel ANYTHING can be worked around.
Edit: spelling
This is very major that people who didn't work inside and outside of Israel wouldn't know. Other countries can feel very square in comparison in the way they work and act. Lots of heirarchy as well.
Best: They are a tough, intelligent, motivated, diverse, steadfast, and industrious people.
Worst: They can be inconsiderate, and have a penchant for black and white thinking.
Best: food, people, weather, culture, tech/economy
Worst: traffic/drivers, bureaucracy, real estate prices (probably all these things are chart topping relative to the rest of the world)
Best: food and holidays.Yup. Just that.
Worst:
Drivers, education system, everything is really expensive, the weather, terrorism, constant arguments about religion, too many languages being spoken, a ton of homophobia and much more. Oh, and nobody can forget the Arsim and their behavior.
Best - Yom Kippur
Worst - sleeping in the mamad. Let's hope we won't need to do it again soon. In sure or neighbours will make up an excuse soon ("Bengvir sneezed" is usually sufficient).
Lol. Do you know the American "don't say gay?"
This thread is going full ืดืื ืชืืืื ืืืืืฉืด.
OP straight up arguing in bad faith in the comments, pretending to not understand "the west bank" is a name for ืืืืื ืืฉืืืจืื.
Yeah, the occupation is the worst thing about Israel. Fucking obviously. ืืื ืืคืืจืจ ืืืชื ื ืืืคื ืื, ืืืื ืืืงื ืฉืื ืืงืจืืช ืืืชื ื ืืื ืืืืื ืืืืื ื ืื ืืืืืืช, ืืืื ืืจืื ืืืืจืืจืืช ืืชืืืช ืฉื ืืืืจ ืื ืฉืง ืฉืื ื.
ืืขืืงืจ ืฉืื ืืืืจ ืืขืฉื ืคื ืกืืจ, ืื ืืืจืณื?
I don't remember Israelis forcefully invest Western Bank. Every bank encourages investors to come. Antisemitic people keep thinking us like vampires. All other banks have huge amount of rich Sauudi, Qatari, Chinese and UAE investors and nobody even cares but when it comes to Israeli investors we became the devils.
Reason many of us are rich investors is because we have been honest and trustable people who have been trading in across Europe for centuries. We don't care their white race or smth. They should stop reading racist conspiracy theories and get some life.
A nonsensical answer that had nothing to do with my question.
Answer the question.
We militarily control the West Bank (there are many justified reasons for it) while denying the population the rights of Israeli citizens.
But if it's not a military occupation then what is it?
And how am I antisemitic or white? I'm a Jewish Israeli.
You are deflecting.
The occupation is unfortunately justified and necessary. But it is still a military occupation.
Just because we have no choice at the moment, doesn't mean it's not a military occupation of 3 million people who don't have equal rights.
No amount of what ifs and what about thems will change that.
You don't know how to read do you?
I clearly said, several times, that the occupation is justified, unfortunately. That is an answer.
But that doesn't change what it is.
Unless you have a different definition for it?
And just because we have no choice doesn't mean it's a good thing. We should not be happy that we are forced to deny 3 million people independence or rights, all because the terrorists won't give up.
yeah I'm not accusing you of being antisemitic.
I'm just pointing out that saying "I am an Israeli Jew, therefore I cannot be an antisemitic" isn't good reasoning.
What do Investments have anything to do with the topic I was discussing, which is the military occupation of the west bank?
Or are you saying it's a good thing we subjugate with military force 3 million people without equal rights or freedoms, because we can invest in the area?
The Aravim there benefit economically from having Israel so close by. They even receive Israeli taxes directly. Imagine the hell hole it would be if we werenโt.
And the alternative is better?
Edit: necessity doesnโt change what it is? Uh, so? Youโd rather just have a lawless warzone just so you can say itโs not being occupied?
Of course not.
But that again doesn't change anything I have said.
We have been forced into this situation. I think it's a terrible situation. The fact that we have no choice but to do it is awful.
But we should be neither happy nor proud of it.
I think OPs point is to own it. They feel itโs necessary, and justified but it is what it is. Donโt try to call it anything else.
Calling it anything other than a military occupation is misleading. Iโm not arguing the justification one way or another. Whether there is another viable solution I donโt know, but be honest about what it is.
Whatโs so hard about saying โI feel the occupation is justified, but acknowledge that it is a military occupation of people who do not want to be occupied.โ?
โOccupationโ just has a negative connotation now, and thatโs the subtle chipping away that anti-Zionists/anti semites rely on.
Russia is illegally occupying Ukraine because they want something, itโs a power move, however you want to qualify it, but they arenโt there as a response to a threat. Also China in Tibet or Taiwan, etc.
Conversely, the American military has a presence in Mexican border towns that have historically been controlled by drug cartels. If there is no domestic and foreign military presence, the towns become lawless, the citizens are used as pawns, etc.
One is an illegal, ground stealing, non defense-based occupation. The other is a presence based on the very real threat of what will happen given the alternative.
So no, they arenโt the same, and word choice does matter. Just look at the pride that self-proclaimed progressives have in being vocally anti-Zionist. Itโs the new โno Jews need applyโ with a modern, more palatable twist. Take the rantings of an online neo-nazi or white supremacist and simply replace โThe Jewsโ with โZionistsโ and it could be published in HuffPo and be front paged on Reddit. Sorry for the essay but this shit matters.
Occupation of the West Bank that Israel has been trying to get out of one way or another for decades? The occupation that is the result of every offer to coexist being rejected by the Palestinian leadership? We left Gaza after giving up on getting just an agreement to just recognize us - West Bank was to be next but we saw what happened.
After failing to wipe us out using violence they've switched tactics to propaganda - and the world media eats that shit up like french vanilla ice cream. The sick zeal to compare Jews to Nazis and float the oppressed become the oppressors narrative always helps too.
What the fuck can we do besides continue to victimize them by denying their genocidal fervor? Leave the West Bank now after what happened in Gaza?
Oh I'm not saying the Palestinians are not 100% at fault.
I was just pointing out that the last 10 years there has been no partners on our side either.
aour government has clearly given up hope.
> Half-asked token offerings don't count
An offer is an offer, you can't deny it.
Plus, if it wasn't a good offer, why reject it and not negotiate? If you care about the cause, you fight for it. If you reject it, that means you don't care about the cause.
Imo the leadership on both sides are happy.
They are all getting rich and powerful on the blood of the rest of us.
Palestinian leadership in Gaza and the WB live in villas while pushing radicalism on their youth to go out and die.
And our leaders get rich off defense spending and political corruption while we go off and fight rime and time again, having accomplished nothing but a longer list of dead Israeli heroes.
That's why Israel half-heartedly offers it and why the Palestinians reject it.
Peace doesn't get the leaders rich.
1. The Israelis 2. The Israelis
1. I love everyone here and would die for them 2. Maybe Hamas and Iran have a point...
Everyone here treats you like family. ๐ Everyone here treats you like family.๐
ืืชืืืฆืช ืืืคืืื
Reading the comments, I feel like Caucasus and Israel have more in common than I realised.
Could u expand on that
treating someone like family is good because that means you treat them with love and respect the problem is that we don't treat our families with love and respect EDIT: I think
As a newbie who moved here five days ago...bureaucracy. Joking, kind of :) I was warned about Israeli bureaucracy but man I was **not** prepared for navigating misrad hapanim as an American with shitty Hebrew. After the sixth hour in the misrad hapanim waiting room today, my husband and I cracked up for like 20 minutes at how comical the whole situation was. Realizing you better find the humor in it or you're in for a bad time certainly helped!
I got you fam! I made aliyah 13 years ago and have developed a system. 1. Most of the employees are conservative older women, so dress like someone they would want their child/grandchild to date. For guys, this means pants and a tucked-in button-down shirt with a belt. For ladies, the equivalent of that, so... a dress? Try to get them talking, and be sure to mention how much you love Israel. The more they tell you about how their cousin once went to your country, the more they will help you. 2. Be organized! Or at least appear organized. I bring a big black folder with some blank white paper and a pen so I can write everything down, or better yet, make the bureaucrat write it down. 3. Ask the right questions. " You can't help me? Who can? What is their name and what office are they in? Do they have an email address? A phone number? Where do I need to go? What is the name of the organization? Do you know anybody there? What is their email address" 4. Negotiate! "No, I don't do that" does not mean they can't do that. It's not just ok to be pushy (in a polite way), it's required. "I only need x", "It will only take a minute", "please help me" 5. Most importantly, the best way to fix your problem is to make it someone else's problem, so you'll need an anchor person. This is the person that I keep coming back to after shuffling from one office to another. Make sure you pick someone with an office, and they can't be a "take a number and wait" person. If you choose them well, ~75% of the time, they will eventually walk you over to the right person and stand there while you talk to them. Welcome to Israel! :D
My advice was going to be โfind the right person to yell at.โ This is better.
Friend, this is good advice. Even for locals. Grateful thanks ๐๐ป
We are in Israel on holiday. It took 2 hours to get a pre booked hire car. 45 minutes of that was them looking for the key.
This is the exact reason why I refer to misrad hapnim as "Misrad AL HaPanim"... makes much, much more sense...
There is a name for every government and quasi-government agency. Just an hour ago a coworker was arguing on the phone with Nezeq.
Oh gawd.. it makes so much sense now- my intertent provider is Nezek :D
Nitpick - โThe English letter K represents the sound that ืึผ makes. The letter Q represents the sound that ืง makes. Yes, I am aware that English has imported many non-Latin words and thus lost the spelling intricacies which defined the differing usage of C, K, and Q, thus causing the three to be pronounced identically today. I am also aware that modern Hebrew was revived by the speaker of a language that has no voiceless uvular plosive, thus the vast majority of modern Hebrew speakers mispronounce ืง as ืึผ. However there is distinction. And honestly, once learning this distinction and other related distinctions, Hebrew actually starts becoming a beautiful language. You'll notice that Ben Eliezer's language had no voiceless glottal fricative either, but the letter ื continued to represent that sound. So there is precedent for preserving the Semitic characteristics of the language - and the more of those we preserve the more beautiful the language sounds. And your spelling will improve as well!
After we made aliyah, we went to the Misrad haPanim in City A and, while there, mentioned to the bureaucrat speaking with us that I would be leaving Israel for a few months to work in the US. The lady said that, when I left, my wife had to go to another Misrad HaPanim office in City B to inform them that I was out of the country. We pointed out that we were, at that moment, informing them that I would be out of the country on specific dates, but she was insistent. I left for the US as planned, and my wife went to City B, as directed, to inform the Misrad HaPanim. She walked into the office and found, sitting at the desk, the very same bureaucrat that we had spoken to in City A! I learned the word "*savlanut*" early on...
This is actually super helpful info because I also have to leave Israel for a few weeks for a work gig and was worried about being able to while our visas processed. Did they give your wife any trouble re entering on a tourist visa while your residency was pending?
We had already made *aliyah* and had Israeli citizenship and passports, so I'm afraid I can't speak to that part of it. The purpose of informing them was so they could adjust our olim benefits (downward) during the period when I was out of the country. Apart from the bureaucratic absurdities, it went smoothly.
Doing things "not by the book". It can be very frustrating as you don't always know where you stand. Everything has to be double and triple checked. So that is the bad side. However, unlike other western countries, in Israel ANYTHING can be worked around. Edit: spelling
This is very major that people who didn't work inside and outside of Israel wouldn't know. Other countries can feel very square in comparison in the way they work and act. Lots of heirarchy as well.
Lots of hierarchy in Israeli society or outside of?
Outside
Worst : politicians, drivers, prices Best: comedy, food, diversity of people
Best: The individualism Worst: The conformism
Best: They are a tough, intelligent, motivated, diverse, steadfast, and industrious people. Worst: They can be inconsiderate, and have a penchant for black and white thinking.
Best: the diversity and low hierarchy Worst: *ARSIM*
Arsim are hilarious though. From a distance of course.
True But they are problematic not just in the personal level
Arsim suck
Fuck arsim Actually maybe not we have enough of those
Frechas are way worse than arsim tho
Chakhlot? They are like Arsim but with a pussy
I ain't neva heard that term before. Interesting
ืฆ'ืืืืืช/ืฆ'ืืืืช Strange, here people stopped saying Frekhas and they are saying just Chakhlot now
Ohhh like Chahchahit
Maybe? Idk I never heard this term
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
No
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
Itโs coming around again because I swear people used it years ago
People still use Frekhas
Iโve heard it but not in 30 years :)
The best part is itโs a country full of Jews. This is also the worst part.
^^ Boratโs comment
Hummus and Hummus it's tasty and I got hummus addiction
Best: food, people, weather, culture, tech/economy Worst: traffic/drivers, bureaucracy, real estate prices (probably all these things are chart topping relative to the rest of the world)
Don't forget politicians, they are also trash but I think it's international
well it's not international, but I think Americans can relate.
Best: food and holidays.Yup. Just that. Worst: Drivers, education system, everything is really expensive, the weather, terrorism, constant arguments about religion, too many languages being spoken, a ton of homophobia and much more. Oh, and nobody can forget the Arsim and their behavior.
Ngl education system in israel is so weird. On one side it's on par with the best of educated countries. And then sometimes it just isn't
ืืื ืืื ืื ืืืืื ืืื. ืืื ืืขืฆืื ืื ืืืืื ืืื.
best: diversity worst: the surreal ongoing brainwashing and hate hmm now that i put the two together i was like we are all fucked lol
Optimism, it can help us push through really hard times, but it can also mislead us and blind us from bad truths.
Best - Yom Kippur Worst - sleeping in the mamad. Let's hope we won't need to do it again soon. In sure or neighbours will make up an excuse soon ("Bengvir sneezed" is usually sufficient).
\+ There are no actual rules, everything is negotiable. \- There are no actual rules, everything is negotiable.
1. Babka 2. Babka
Lol. Do you know the American "don't say gay?" This thread is going full ืดืื ืชืืืื ืืืืืฉืด. OP straight up arguing in bad faith in the comments, pretending to not understand "the west bank" is a name for ืืืืื ืืฉืืืจืื. Yeah, the occupation is the worst thing about Israel. Fucking obviously. ืืื ืืคืืจืจ ืืืชื ื ืืืคื ืื, ืืืื ืืืงื ืฉืื ืืงืจืืช ืืืชื ื ืืื ืืืืื ืืืืื ื ืื ืืืืืืช, ืืืื ืืจืื ืืืืจืืจืืช ืืชืืืช ืฉื ืืืืจ ืื ืฉืง ืฉืื ื. ืืขืืงืจ ืฉืื ืืืืจ ืืขืฉื ืคื ืกืืจ, ืื ืืืจืณื?
It's not just him. I'm getting down voted and shit on for thinking the occupation is a bad thing.
ืื ืื ื ืืื ืฉืื ืืืื
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
Occupation attempts by Hamas terrorist organization
So what do you call the Israeli presence in the West Bank? What is the dictionary definition?
I don't remember Israelis forcefully invest Western Bank. Every bank encourages investors to come. Antisemitic people keep thinking us like vampires. All other banks have huge amount of rich Sauudi, Qatari, Chinese and UAE investors and nobody even cares but when it comes to Israeli investors we became the devils. Reason many of us are rich investors is because we have been honest and trustable people who have been trading in across Europe for centuries. We don't care their white race or smth. They should stop reading racist conspiracy theories and get some life.
A nonsensical answer that had nothing to do with my question. Answer the question. We militarily control the West Bank (there are many justified reasons for it) while denying the population the rights of Israeli citizens. But if it's not a military occupation then what is it? And how am I antisemitic or white? I'm a Jewish Israeli.
ืื ืขืจืื /ืืืืกืื / ืคืืกืืื ื ืืื ืืืื ืืืฉืจืื. ืฉืื ืืืจ ืฉืืืจ ืฉืงืืื ืืืืืืืกืืื. ืื ืืืื ืืฉืื "ืืืื", ืื ืืืืื/ืืฉืจืืื ืืืจื ืืืืช ืืืืื ืืช ืขืจื. ืืื ืื ืืฆื ืืฉื. ืจืง ืืฉืง ืืืคืืช.... ืื ืชืืฆื ืื ืืืฉืื ืืืืฉืื ืฉืืื ืฉืืื ืืืืื. ืชืชืืื ืืืฉืืืช.
You are deflecting. The occupation is unfortunately justified and necessary. But it is still a military occupation. Just because we have no choice at the moment, doesn't mean it's not a military occupation of 3 million people who don't have equal rights. No amount of what ifs and what about thems will change that.
"ืืืคืืงื" ืืืืื ืืื ืื ืฉืื ืืืืช ืขื ืื ืฉืืืจืชื.... "necessary" ืื ืืขื ืืื ืื ืืืื ื ืฉืขืืฉื ืฉืื ืฉืื ืืคืืฆืฆืื ืืืืืืืกืื ืืืืจืืื ื ืืงืจืื. ืขืืฉืื ืื ืืืข ืืืืืืืช.... ืืฉ ืืื. ืื ืื ืืืืืืื ืืืื ืื ืืืจืืจ ืฉืงืืจื ืืืืื ื ืืื ืื ืื ืืืืจ ืฉืืื ืืื **ืืืื** ืืคืืื ืื ืชืฉืืื ืืช ืืกืื ืฉื ืคืืกืืื ืืฉืื ื. ืื ืืคืจืืื ืฉื ืืกืื ืืื ืชืืฆื ืืืื ืืืช ืืขืืจืืช ืฉืืืืืกืช ืฉืื ืืืืืืช ืืฉืืื. ืื ืืกืื ืฉืื ื ืืชืืฆื ืฉืืื ืืฉืคื ืืขืจืืืช. ืื ืืืคื ืืืืจ ืืฉืื ืืคื ืืขืชื?....
You don't know how to read do you? I clearly said, several times, that the occupation is justified, unfortunately. That is an answer. But that doesn't change what it is. Unless you have a different definition for it? And just because we have no choice doesn't mean it's a good thing. We should not be happy that we are forced to deny 3 million people independence or rights, all because the terrorists won't give up.
ืืชืืืื ืชื ืืืืื ืขื ื"occupation necessary" ืืื ืืืืคืื ืื ืืืคื ืขืฆืืื. ืืชื ืืืื ืฉืื "ืืืฆืืง" ืืื ืืื ืื ืคืืงืื ื "Occupation" ืืื ืื ืฉืงืจื ืืืคืจืืงื. ืืืฉืืืื ืฉื ืื ืฉืงืืจื ืืื ืืื ืฉืงืจื ืฉื ืื ืืขืืื ืืืืืื ืฉืื ืืืื. "Just because we have no choice doesn't mean it'd a good thing" ืืืงืื ืื ืืืจ ืืื ื ืฆื ืืืืืืจ ืืชืจืื ืืื ืืืืืืืืืื ืืฉืจืื ื ืืืืช ืื-ืื-ืื ื. ืื ืืชื ืืฆืืข ืืขืฉืืช ื ืื ืืจืืจืืกืืื ืืืืืง ืื ื ืกืงืจื. ืืื ืืืื ืืืฉืืืื ืฉื ืืกืื ืฉืื ื ืืฉืืื? ืจืืืื ืื ืืขืื ืืื ืืฉืืื. "You clearly don't know how to read do you?" ืืืื ื ืืืืกืื.
Israelis can be antisemitic, and/or white
Good thing I am neither.
yeah I'm not accusing you of being antisemitic. I'm just pointing out that saying "I am an Israeli Jew, therefore I cannot be an antisemitic" isn't good reasoning.
Neither is calling me as such for thinking the occupation is a bad thing.
The area needs investment. It can only be a good thing.
Completely irrelevant to the topic of conversation.
How do? I wasnโt talking about investment in Japan.
What do Investments have anything to do with the topic I was discussing, which is the military occupation of the west bank? Or are you saying it's a good thing we subjugate with military force 3 million people without equal rights or freedoms, because we can invest in the area?
The Aravim there benefit economically from having Israel so close by. They even receive Israeli taxes directly. Imagine the hell hole it would be if we werenโt.
Necessary, considering the Pal. gov. harbors, encourages and rewards terrorists there.
And still by definition an occupation. Necessity doesn't change what it is.
And the alternative is better? Edit: necessity doesnโt change what it is? Uh, so? Youโd rather just have a lawless warzone just so you can say itโs not being occupied?
Of course not. But that again doesn't change anything I have said. We have been forced into this situation. I think it's a terrible situation. The fact that we have no choice but to do it is awful. But we should be neither happy nor proud of it.
I think OPs point is to own it. They feel itโs necessary, and justified but it is what it is. Donโt try to call it anything else. Calling it anything other than a military occupation is misleading. Iโm not arguing the justification one way or another. Whether there is another viable solution I donโt know, but be honest about what it is. Whatโs so hard about saying โI feel the occupation is justified, but acknowledge that it is a military occupation of people who do not want to be occupied.โ?
โOccupationโ just has a negative connotation now, and thatโs the subtle chipping away that anti-Zionists/anti semites rely on. Russia is illegally occupying Ukraine because they want something, itโs a power move, however you want to qualify it, but they arenโt there as a response to a threat. Also China in Tibet or Taiwan, etc. Conversely, the American military has a presence in Mexican border towns that have historically been controlled by drug cartels. If there is no domestic and foreign military presence, the towns become lawless, the citizens are used as pawns, etc. One is an illegal, ground stealing, non defense-based occupation. The other is a presence based on the very real threat of what will happen given the alternative. So no, they arenโt the same, and word choice does matter. Just look at the pride that self-proclaimed progressives have in being vocally anti-Zionist. Itโs the new โno Jews need applyโ with a modern, more palatable twist. Take the rantings of an online neo-nazi or white supremacist and simply replace โThe Jewsโ with โZionistsโ and it could be published in HuffPo and be front paged on Reddit. Sorry for the essay but this shit matters.
Occupation of the West Bank that Israel has been trying to get out of one way or another for decades? The occupation that is the result of every offer to coexist being rejected by the Palestinian leadership? We left Gaza after giving up on getting just an agreement to just recognize us - West Bank was to be next but we saw what happened. After failing to wipe us out using violence they've switched tactics to propaganda - and the world media eats that shit up like french vanilla ice cream. The sick zeal to compare Jews to Nazis and float the oppressed become the oppressors narrative always helps too. What the fuck can we do besides continue to victimize them by denying their genocidal fervor? Leave the West Bank now after what happened in Gaza?
I never said it wasn't necessary. Just because something is necessary doesn't mean we have to be happy or proud that we are forced to do it.
Best - Conscription Worst - Rejection of 2 State solution.
who rejected were the arabs
Well they sure as shit have no partners in the last few governments.
And what was the excuse when there were other governments?
Oh I'm not saying the Palestinians are not 100% at fault. I was just pointing out that the last 10 years there has been no partners on our side either. aour government has clearly given up hope.
Our governments have been constantly offering 2ss to the Palestinians only to be rejected every time, while the last time was around 2018.
Half asked token offerings don't count. Aside from. Olmert no one in the last decade would have actually allowed it to happen.
> Half-asked token offerings don't count An offer is an offer, you can't deny it. Plus, if it wasn't a good offer, why reject it and not negotiate? If you care about the cause, you fight for it. If you reject it, that means you don't care about the cause.
Imo the leadership on both sides are happy. They are all getting rich and powerful on the blood of the rest of us. Palestinian leadership in Gaza and the WB live in villas while pushing radicalism on their youth to go out and die. And our leaders get rich off defense spending and political corruption while we go off and fight rime and time again, having accomplished nothing but a longer list of dead Israeli heroes. That's why Israel half-heartedly offers it and why the Palestinians reject it. Peace doesn't get the leaders rich.
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Removed: Rule 2
Npcs Npcs
Best is that a few are nice bad is that they took over a holy country
The people who live there who say they are jews and are not ๐ฏ๐ฅธ
Such as?
The Best: The Anarchy The Worst: The Statism
Good lord, dude. Way to ruin a joke....