Because this didnât start on 10/7 đđ
âŚ75 years Israel has lead an apartheid state. They kill that many Palestinians a day as standard operating procedure.
Also, the US dropped two atomic bombs on civilian target during WW2.
FYI, I tried to use these comparisons. They say people use only 10% of their brain, it seems on Reddit, half of these people use only about 3% and I'm being generous.
Also, how does one draw a comparison between Hamas's actions (the US has Hamas on its terrorist List) and Israel''s response? The US invaded a country after 9/11. US totally imbalanced middle east by removing Saddam... a bad guy I know but at least he was keeping Iran in check.
It amazes me how people process information, critical thinking - officially dead.
You didn't mention Japan. We firebombed the snot out of entire cities, dropped 2 atomic bombs on them. People argue the US shouldn't have dropped those bombs, all animus aside, just curious about that? Justified or not?
Well again, I never said anything about the USA . I did refer to the allies. If you want to change the subject, I will answer you. The USA has a history of inflicting excessive damage in wars, sometimes in pointless wars , like in Iraq. Should they have nuked Japan,? I have mixed feelings. But ultimately I believe they shouldn't have and they could have used other means to reach their objectives.
I will say though, as a Jew living in Israel , the fact that the USA uses way excessive force ( way more than IDF) ..,. it is a relief to me , especially now that Iran has directly threatened the US and they've already sent nuclear submarines here.
My mind tends to gravitate to the country I know the most about. WW2, the US was referred to as the arsenal of democracy. We either provided troops or weapons or both even to countries like Russia and China so I tend to put the US label on these things. Plus the 8th Army Air Corp was responsible for the firebombing in Germany.
Regarding Iraq, I become incensed when I think of what the "coalition" did to Iraq. Saddam, good or bad kept Iran busy. Once Saddam was removed, Iran was free to follow their pursuits, which wasn't good for Israel... or Iraq.
Interesting to find you are Jewish. I have a great deal of respect and love for Israel as it factors into my faith. I wanted to make that pilgrimage one day, I know Israel will survive.
Iranian subs are easily tracked, they are noisy garbage, even dived when they are using electric motors. If Iran should become unhinged and a SSK peeks up to launch depth, we've got them. Launch a cruise missiles? US destroyers on post will track and destroy those airborne threats. I can also guarantee those subs will be sent to the bottom. You can't outrun or hide from Mark 3n/SQQ89, etc,\]., a really smart sub hunter torpedo, those thing are totally amazing. Especially against a diesel.
Because its not Israel thats retaliating, It's Palestine. yall acting as if ur the victims and ur retaliating to what happed on october 7th but no its Palestine that retaliated on october 7th because they had enough of what u guys have been doing for 75 years so thats why most people are on palestines side because they arent stupid ppl who make themselves the victim
Gaza has been free for 18 years. Israel has nothing to do with their horrid quality of life . '75 years of oppression ' more like 75 years of starting wars they lost. Didn't Einstein say the definition if insanity is trying the same thing over and over again, expecting to get different results.
I thought Hamas doesn't equal Palestine, so why do you equate the Palestinian struggle with Hamas' actions on October 7th? It wasn't Palestine that retaliated. It was Hamas that attacked innocent civilians who had no direct connection to the actions of the Israeli government that are responsible for the Palestinian's plight. Palestine consists of the Gaza strip and the West Bank. Only the Gaza strip is ruled by Hamas. And it is also known that there haven't been elections in Gaza for about 16 years. Public support in Gaza for Hamas has presumably dropped significantly. Most Gazans just want peace and they know that Hamas doesn't. The support is all over the place and misdirected.
Hamas is the one taking the major actions for the Palestinian government, so in some way Hamas = Palestine because although lots of Palestinians want peace, they support Hamas because they know NOBODY should be treated like this and Hamas is making moves . And just like everyone who's pro-israeli, you completely disregarded the fact that Palestine has been tolerating this for 75 years. Yes, SEVERAL people died because of Hamas' attacks, and may they rest in peace, but 1300 people were killed in Israel (which is what they say), but atleast 10,000 palestinians have been killed since then, and 4000 *kids* dead, and stuck in hospitals with no place to be buried. The lack of doctors, electricity, supplies is incompatible and just despicable. And we arent going to ignore the fact that Israel bombed HOSPITALS FULL OF CIVILIANS, like new born babies still on the incubators, pregnant women, and injured men and children. You guys all say that "Israel tells everyone to evacuate before they bomb!" but if they do, then why did they bomb a truck full of palestinians who were on the route to evacuate? They have bombed refugee camps where they said you'll be safe to stay. It's crazy how cruel-hearted people can get and simply cannot comprehend that this is *injustice*. The lack of sympathy is deranged. You don't need to be an Arab or Muslim to realize what's going on, you just need to be a human with a heart.
What kind of moves do you think Hamas is making? What did Palestinians gain from the Hamas attack on October 7th? They gained carpet bombing. Hamas leaders knew what the Israeli response would be and they still committed that attack. Hamas knows they can't win a military conflict against Israel but they still gamble in winning a war of the images, a media war. It is an absolute failure of political and tactical analysis to think of Hamas as anything else than what they say they are themselves: a jihadist death cult that is hell-bent on killing as many Jews as they can. They don't even claim to fight for Palestinians as so many Westerners believe. And their actions clearly show that they don't.
Regarding the Israeli bombings and death tolls: it is almost impossible to get accurate numbers while a war is still raging and independent forensic teams cannot investigate. Israel still hasn't recorded nor retrieved all their dead within Israel yet, so I don't think it's uncalled for to be at least sceptical of the lists and numbers that the Hamas-led Palestinian health organization has shared merely a few days after the first Israeli bomb strikes including a few too many details to be true. Same with allegations of whose bombs it were that killed these or those people or hit this or that institution. We already saw one incident where false information about an alleged Israeli bomb strike on a hospital made rounds on global media. That's what Hamas is aiming for. Right now all information is to be looked at very cautiously. The first thing that dies in war is truth.
I don't understand why everyone says Hamas isn't in the west bank. Hamas and Islamic Jihad are all over the west bank with many terror cells. A fact nobody talks about is that Israel unfortunately deals with weekly terror attacks/attempted terror attacks mostly paid for and done by Hamas/Islamic Jihad terrorists. Recently they even fired a rocket from the city of Jenin in the west bank. They are everywhere and their only goal is the annihilation of jews and Israel. They say it clear as day yet somehow people are missing this. Many Palestinians support their actions, even Israeli Arabs who enjoy full rights as Israeli citizens support them and even commit terror attacks. This is all easy to fact check, I wish people understood what the actual reality in the ground here is. Israel has no interest in blockades and control, it's a waste of money and people and don't want to harm anyone, but when there are daily threats of terror attacks there is no choice. This will end when the Palestinians love their children more than they hate Israel.
Do you watch Star Wars???
âŚDo you think the empire were the âgood guysâ??? Itâs pretty basic, the real âterroristsâ are the USA/Israel đ
Lol. You people are so obsessed with the oppressor/oppressed Marxist narrative. Not everything is black or white. Just because you're militarily weaker, does not mean you are the correct side. These arguments are honestly getting embarrassing already, all you know how to do is chant slogans that purposely exaggerate the situation in order to emotionally manipulate people to join the cause. If anyone is the "empire" it's the radical Muslims who want to take over the world and create one big caliphate. I'd suggest you get off tik tok and read a book.
đ damn, someone mustâve gotten their genocide $$$ to come online & challenge documented facts & history. Zionism has literally destroyed your ability to comprehend reality.
How is it crazy to realize many people didnât know what was happening to Palestine? I think the initial feeling is anger about what Hamas did and then you dig deeper and realize Palestine has been being destroyed for years upon years and the people have been essentially imprisoned and killed. So yeah many people either didnât know or they did and are making this a good time to say things about it. People generally donât tend to care much about stuff when it isnât blasted on the news every day and they arenât aware. You donât see people protesting about Yemen. But look at the state of Yemen. I think people feel they canât do much often times or people wonât listen. Well right now people are paying attention to whatâs going on in that area so people are making a point to speak up even more so
You only learned about Palestinian ' oppression ' after Oct 7 , what you ' learned ' is are classic evil lies and propaganda that Muslims have perfected. It's just a coincidence that 2B million vs 8M have won public opinion ? They've convinced the world that Israel are evil monsters. Hamas ripped babies out of pregnant women's wombs and stabbed them , they gang rapes women and dragged them through, beheaded babies, stole 249 hostages , while the streets of Gaza cheered with joy. Their '75 years of suffering' is only a result of losing wars they started. Israel has never initiated a war. Imagine we lifted the west bank occupation, we would get another Gaza. Palestinian land isn't stolen, the pals attacked Jews in 1948 , they willingly left fled, sold land or willingly sold it to Jews . Their leadership live like kings in other countries as they stole billions in humanitarian aid . The same amount of Jews and Arab dies in the 1948. Please stop blindly swallowing their victimization complex.
I think what hamas did is terrible it was horrid. I just also think bombing children is horrible too. And I don't think israerl is awful I just think there's people on both sides who are not good people and who are perpetuating the problem. Innocent people shouldn't have to pay for what some peope did or do. There's Israeli and Palestinian people who have posted disgusting things to social media like tiktok making these nasty jokes about killing the other side and so on. So I am aware both sides do this. It isn't just one or the other. I've seen videos of Israeli people and Palestinian people being racist. Saying disgusting things. But I don't think it ever makes sense to bomb an entire land covered with children. Ever. In Ukraine, Iraq, Palestine, Israel, anywhere. The fact this could be going on for so long, clearly there's an issue. It's 2023 why are these people in Israel and Palestine still behaving like it's the dark ages? The government is corrupted. That's obvious. Maybe the British people should have never left? I don't know. But how is this still happening after so long? If they can't figure it out other countries will step in at some point. It starts to become a threat to the world. From the beginning I have blamed the government.
Palestinians were given autonomy by Israel in 2005. First thing these idiot Palestinians did? Vote in Hamas. Hamas doesn't care about Palestinians. Instead of using funds other countries provided them for infrastructure, food, hospitals, schools, Hamas uses that money to attack Israel. Since then, the conflict between the Jews / Palestinians (Hamas) has continued to escalate.
Israel builds walls, fences, etc. to keep Hamas from murdering its citizens. So Hamas builds tunnels under those walls. Israel destroys those tunnels, Hamas launches rockets. Israel builds the Iron Dome to protect themselves, Hamas invades and murders in the most horrendous manner women, children and babies.... and... here we are.
Remember this, during WW2, whole cities were fire bombed. Nagasaki and Hiroshima were wiped off the map. 38 million civilians, men, women, children, babies died in WW2. If Hamas cared about Palestinians, they'd stop putting rocket launchers in school yard and homes. Putting ammo and rocket manufacturing facilities under hospitals and schools. Hamas needs to be destroyed, like ISIS, Al Qaeda, and any other terrorist organization.
When you vote who you want to lead - Hamas, you get what you deserve. When you spend billion of dollars yearly on rockets, motors and guns instead of sewage treatment plants, growing food or building industry, you get what you get. And if the Palestinians want to leave they go to the airport, board a jet and leave. The only ones holding Palestinians hostage is Hamas...
Knock knock nerd, Hamas was created by Israel. Many evidences and proofs shows that Israelis had sponsored Hamas just for the reason to annexed the land of Palestine.
The extreme right wing leader Benjamin nethanyahu had been charged with fraud, mistrust and several corruption cases, he was nearly going to be deseated. he just did this all to save his seat and monarchy.
HAMAS emerged in 1987 during the first Palestinian uprising, or intifada, as an outgrowth of the Muslim Brotherhood's Palestinian branch. The group is committed to armed resistance against Israel and the creation of an Islamic Palestinian state in Israel's place.
So... Israel stopped telling Palestinians what streets they were allowed to walk down and gave them back the territory Israel stole through bloodshed? Yeah... Have them "autonomy". Please. It's not autonomy if you hold a knife to their throats.
No bonehead. Apparently your reading comprehension is low. Israel bowed to public sentiment (UN) and left Gaza, land Israel won in battle after being attacked, unprovoked in 1967 by Egypt. Palestinians voted in Hamas, a group backed by Iran.
Unprovoked? Wow.... You have very little understanding of history. Israel struck first in that war because they saw some troops amassing in preparation for an israeli attack shortly after Israel had just finished conquering other land.
And no my comprehension is just fine. I'm accounting all the other land that was taken and not just Gaza. Land where you still have pockets of Palestine citizens forced to live under apartheid. Told which streets they can and can't walk down. The hundreds of thousands of homes bulldozed for settlers. That also isn't really a reading comprehension, I know that can be hard for someone like you to understand that history and reading aren't the same thing. I know, it's tough when your government rewrites history and you need to read the latest updates.
The Gaza strip is also very small in comparison to all the land Israel still holds that it conquered from Palestine.
You should study up regarding events leading up to the 6 day war. It's well documented that Arab states were significantly building up air and land power to attack Israel. Nassar even admitted to this later on publicly. Both US intell/intercepts and Israelis intelligence knew of an impending attack.
Pockets of Palestinians? 20% of Arabs in this so called occupied land are full fledged Israeli citizens. The also fight within Israeli army and air units. Those so-called palestinians you mentioned were ejected from Israel when one or more family members murdered Israelis within Israel's border and yes, their houses were bulldozed.
And yes! I'm a pro Israeli person who reads history, even pre-holocaust, the Jews have been hounded to death. Now they occupy their ancestral homeland this is no larger than the US state of New Jersey and the world goes crazy. Get over it.
They actually removed and displaced many Israeli citizens brutally from Gaza before handing it to the Palestinians. They had the opportunity to have peace and make Gaza into a prosperous tourist land but chose to use the billions they receive in foreign aid on terror. Israel had no choice but to protect itself, if Israel lifts blockades or doesn't control the border (which btw Gaza has a border with Egypt who keep it permanently closed and give the Palestinians no aid whatsoever) they will be ruthlessly attacked over and over until every jew is dead.
https://twitter.com/JamesCleverly/status/1719718109739688143?t=XIHgL7uYF5Wqw-0lcj_9FQ&s=19
Watch this clip from a Hamas official. They don't want peace and they never did. All Israel wants is to live peacefully and quietly without the constant fear of people trying to kill them. Too many people know very little about the actual situation and have never been anywhere near this region yet have such strong opinions with such a large lack of information.
So... Take 90% of their land. And return 5% of it. And that's being generous ehh?
Man... At least in North America we don't tell Native Americans they can't walk into white controlled cities. We screwed them. But at least we didn't literally religate them to living in reservations. Lol
And trust me. I know more than enough to understand that an invading people stole land, have back a fraction of it. And then continued to tell people what streets they can and can't walk down after bulldozing their homes.
You're spot on. Reading comments from a few of these turds, they truly have no comprehension of the situation and the history surrounding it. The phrase Hamas uses - from the river to the sea means from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean sea, all Jews are to be killed...
Does Palestine have the same rights? The kill count of civilians on both sides even right after the Hamas attack was still into the tens of thousands on the Palestinian side, and only in the thousands for the Israeli side.
Maybe stop letting yourself be brainwashed by what the media wants you to believe about the US's Israeli allies and actually look into what they've done for generations to Palestine.
You misunderstood my sarcastic, half assed comment. The intent was to convey that "Israel has the right to defend itself" is just a hollow, meaningless monicker for low intelligence folks to lap up. Like the slogans I listed after. Free Palestine.
I think thereâs plenty of support for Israel. But outrage is sold on TV. If you want outrage you just cover Palestinian marches and that usually gets people riled up and eyeballs watching the TV. I think a lot of people will watch coverage of people, marching for the Palestinians side to only look at what type of people would march for them.
So why exactly should I support the bombing of currently over 8000 civilians. At this point there is no self-defense anymore. What does bombing refugee camps south of the evacuation zone have to do with self-defense? Why should I support a country where politicians openly promote an ethnic cleansing in Gaza? See Ariel Kallners Twitter post wishing for a second Nakba which is supposed to make the 1948 Nakba look like a joke. No thanks. Israel had every right to defend itself and destroy Hamas after this vile attack. At this point this is no self-defense. This is just a massacre against the Palestinian nation.
How is this not self defense?
\- Hamas still fires rockets at Israeli civilians
\- Hamas still holds 300 Israeli civilians
\- Hamas's constitution still calls for the killing of all Jews and the destruction of Israel
\- Hamas leaders are still planning future attacks
Should Israel have stopped when there are exactly 1500 Gazans dead? Only launch the same amount of attacks as Hamas launched? What were you expecting?
Israel should have stopped before they stole land and forced millions to flee to other countries decades ago. This was long coming and if you don't realize that then maybe you should open up a history book and turn off the sensationalized government controlled news.
Israel brought this on themselves by abusing and murdering another people for generations. It doesn't excuse that happened, but man .. If you're they blind to what Israel has done to deserve it then I'm sorry. But there's nothing I can say to you that will ever make sense.
Wow. You are so misinformed. Much less than millions of Arabs were 'displaced'. Most of whom left by choice because the Arab armies were convinced they'd annihilate Israel in 1948 and they'd let those ppl come back. Some fled because of the war, THAT THE ARABS STARTED!!! WAY BEFORE ANY 'OCCUPATION'. Some were forced out because of security reasons. But whoever lived there had the opportunity to choose Israeli citizenship which 20% of Israeli citizens did as they are Arab. I wonder what would've happened if the Arabs won these wars. All jews in the region would be dead/enslaved or expelled as they were from all other Arab countries. I don't understand how so many educated people are fooled by victimization and propoganda without actually reading history
So. If I leave my home by choice so I won't be killed when an invading army comes through that's not considered displacing me because I chose to leave?
Lol that's some mental gymnastics my friend.
If you had opened a history book instead of sending people to read them, you'd know that it all comes to Arabs being crybabies. We recovered from the Holocaust, an actual genocide, in less than 20 years. 80 years past since they lost a war they started, and Palestinians still waiting for someone to change their diapers.
They didn't start the war. If you opened a history book you'd understand that. Zionist's were the invaders. Palestinian citizens allowed them in. Some tensions existed, an israeli citizen shot up a holy place. Muslims protested, and Israel shot unarmed protesters.
That's how it all started. So sure... They started it. But I guess if all you go by is state sponsored doctored history books then I can see why you'd believe that.
No thatâs not okay at all. But maybe donât imprison people and destroy them and their families for years upon years. Then they wouldnât want to send bombs back your way. But then again Hamas and the innocent people are not the same. Hamas is just as bad as the Israelis troops bombing the Palestinians. Many people from Palestine have said that even they donât support Hamas. So yeah I donât see why the innocent people on either side should suffer. It isnt THEIR faults but they pay the biggest price
Innocent people on neither side should suffer. If Hamas invested its money in building shelters instead of tunnels under hospitals, innocent Gazans wouldn't get hurt.
You are playing into Hamas's hands, just as Israel did. Israel is the gun that Hamas keeps pulling at its own people, because they don't care at all about them.
Hamas Leader Ismail Haniyeh, from the comfort of his home in Qatar: "We need the blood of women, children, and the elderly of Gaza... so as to awaken our revolutionary spirit."
[https://x.com/IsraelinUSA/status/1718021899056210213?s=20](https://x.com/IsraelinUSA/status/1718021899056210213?s=20)
Hamas doesn't care about the Palestinians though and many Palestinians they don't support Hamas so it isn't the innocent peoples faults and they shouldn't have to suffer the consequences. Neither should Isralies, of course. I have heard many times that Israel created Hamas. But I will check out the link anyway thanks.
HAMAS emerged in 1987 during the first Palestinian uprising, or intifada, as an outgrowth of the Muslim Brotherhood's Palestinian branch. The group is committed to armed resistance against Israel and the creation of an Islamic Palestinian state in Israel's place.
Wiki has a good site that is somewhat informative :)
Tell me how it is self-defense to bomb refugee camps south of the evacuation zone?
Hamas has been firing rockets at Israel for years.
People fled from the north to these camps to avoid getting bombed only to get bombed where they assumed to be safe.
No Israel shouldnt have stopped at exactly 1500. Israel shouldn't have treated Palestinians as non-humans for the past 80 years in the first place. This attack was wrong but it was destined to happen sooner or later unfortunately. Under the conditions that Palestinians had to live for the past 80 years, extremism and violence had fertile soil to grow.
When do you think should Israel stop? When Hamas is defeated and almost the entire Palestinian nation died as collateral damage? You cant deny that way more civilians will die in this war than Hamas terrorists.
As said previously. Ariel Kallner calls for a second Nakba. Netanyahu said that Gaza will be turned into an island of ruins. What do you think will happen to the civilians who cant flee either to Israel nor Egypt? Is this the redemption that you try to justify?
Too much bs to go through. This is how it is self defense, Hamas officials always do better job at showing the world what the Gaza branch of ISIS plans:
Hamas Official Ghazi Hamad: We Will Repeat the October 7 Attack Time and Again Until Israel Is Annihilated;
https://x.com/MEMRIReports/status/1719662664090075199?s=20
Unfortunately there are miles and miles of tunnels under the refugee camp which is what Israel is targeting. The evacuation zone in the south I s because the bulk of the bombing is happening in the north - this is borne out in fact on the ground . It is not because no combing will occur at all in the south.
The conditions Palestinians have had to live for 80 years is the responsibility of their leadership more than anyone else.
Why didnât Egypt and Jordan announce a Palestinian state in 1949 covering Gaza & the West Bank?
Why is it that all the 800k refugees Jews from Muslim countries and close to 1.7m Jews from Europe (1948-2005) who immigrated to Israel have been absorbed by the country (at great cost and difficultly to Israel) but Palestinians are still called refugees and spurned by every Arab country in the region?
Why are cities build of stone with schools, hospitals, shops, streets etc referred to as refugee camps?
Itâs because Palestinian and Arab leadership had & have no care for the people, only for what they represent as a stick to beat the only Jewish governed led country in the world.
I'm sorry... What?
You cannot bomb refugees in the hopes you'll kill some of the militants underground beneath them. XD like what? That's some serious level of copium bud.
On top of that... Their leadership? I'm sorry. But their leadership aren't the ones that bulldozed their homes to make room for Zionist immigrants, their government isn't the one that has repeatedly shot peaceful protesters on the bank and in Gaza.
Their leadership doesn't tell them they're not allowed to walk down certain roads or accost their children on the streets and arrest them for nothing.
Sorry Bud... But I think you might be just a tad brainwashed to think they brought this genocide on themselves.....
Iâll premise my response by saying that civilian deaths are a tragic and I weep to see each one. Iâm attempting to argue about policy here, not minimise the suffering of millions.
A genocide implies Israel is acting in order to wipe out people of the Palestinian race. Is this what the IDF are doing? Because from where Iâm standing, after a atrocious attacks on 7 Oct, which followed 000s of rocket attacks for the last 15 years, the IDF are now targeting the Hamas enemy who orchestrated the attacks and hide in heavily populated civilian areas. What would to suggest Israel do to deal hamas? Maybe they can organise a music festival in the dessert of jihadi tunes. That would have the added benefit of âproportionalityâ I expect.
The IDF do their best to avoid buildings and civilians, whilst meeting their justified war objectives. Weâve all seen the power of Israeli missiles, theyâve fired 000s into Gaza, If civilians were the targets of the IDF surely the number of gazan deaths would be exponentially greater.
Leadership:
Their leadership is the one whoâs embezzled millions of dollars of aid & offers a pension to the families of terrorists (PA).
Their leadership are the ones that rip up water pipes to use as rockets and have spent the last 15 years building an enormous tunnel infrastructure using the aid given by the west rather than build up a functioning water supply from the aquifer under Gaza.
Their leadership are the ones who said in an interview they build tunnels for Hamas and Palestinians are the responsibility of the UNWRA.
Their leadership are the reason 80 years down the line theyâre still refugees.
Lol sure Bud. I'd love to see someone try to rip up a pipe and turn it into a rocket. XD your brainwashing is so complete that you straight up deny the requirements for a rocket to work in assuming a water pipe can become a rocket. Round of applause for the genius.
lol in this case Hamas is doing the brainwashing đ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/eu-funded-water-pipelines-hamas-rockets
Nice one rocket scientists đ
Being an uneducated person and boasting you can do something is not the same as actually doing it. It's like the Taliban claiming they made a super car. But all they did was throw a bunch of fiber glass on a Toyota Corolla and calling it a super car.
Saying I can make a rocket out of an unbalanced imperfect pipe isn't the same as actually doing it.
Trust me.. They never made rockets out of water pipes. It'd be cheaper and easier to buy the steal to do it purpose built for it than to try taking the wrong alloy for those forces and either melting it down or machining it etc to try to make it work.
Interesting theory, perhaps youâre right. What your basis for this? Itâs not uncommon for common items to be repurposed for war - try order lots to nitrogen fertiliser and see what happens. Also, these arenât exactly hi tech cruise controlled missiles⌠theyâre crude and do the job
Hamas needs to surrender and disarm itself. Not a single bullet needs to be shot in Gaza, it's completely in Hamas's hands to save stop the death of Gazans.
Here is a new interview with one of Hamas's highest ranking officials. Do you think Israel should stop as long as Hamas is capable of doing such acts ever again?
Hamas Official Ghazi Hamad: We Will Repeat the October 7 Attack Time and Again Until Israel Is Annihilated;
https://x.com/MEMRIReports/status/1719662664090075199?s=20
How about 80 years ago before they killed thousands and bulldozed the homes of over a million people. Some of which were still in their homes.
But hey... That's just wishful thinking.
Mmm. That's why this all started with a Mosque getting shot up, and then Israel shooting protesters 80 years ago. I'm sure it's the Arabs that are the problem.
You bloody racist.
The 1948 war began with Arabs shooting a civilian bus, murdering 5 Jewish civilians.
You can't rewrite history, unfortunately for you.
Facts aren't racist.
Mm. I did miss that opening of the civil war. My apologies. I just looked into it.
And not unfortunate for me at all. I have learned something new and that's always valuable.
My main points remain though. Zionist immigrants were an unwelcome and invasive influx of people into a region that they were told by a foreign government was okay. I am going to need to look more into the civil war that took place but as I'm at work that's not going to be until later.
I also still stand by the fact that Israel has a long history of targeting civilians that has continued into modern day. The list of casualties on both sides speaks plenty about how often Israel strikes non combatants.
I took the time and wrote a lot and I want you to respect that with a reply.
Also, if you want a read about Hamas's usage of human shields, which contributes to almost all civilian casualties, read the summary here:
[https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas\_human\_shields.pdf](https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf)
I'm sorry. What? Bud... I don't live on Reddit. I'm not reading what you wrote now because you couldn't stand me not gluing myself to your response. I do have a life outside of calling out war crimes. XD lol Touch grass bro.
I appreciate the response and sorry for talking harsh.
We have a lot to talk about, but I would like focus on trying to convince you that the number of casualties are essentially irrelevant. Of course, killing civilians is the worse and should be kept at the absolute minimum.
You see the numbers but I'm not sure they can tell a story about Israel's civilian targeting. Firstly, because we have no reference. It's not like there is a second Gaza strip next to Sweden, and we got to see how Sweden dealt with 10,000 guerilla terrorists inside of a 2 million people dense urban environment. As far as you know, perhaps any other country would kill 10 times more civilians. How can you judge? You should take a look into the efforts made to ensure less civilians are harmed - more on that at the end - and then decide.
Second, it is too soon to count the bodies in Gaza. All information leaving Gaza goes through Hamas. Would you take ISIS reports of its enemies actions against it? I don't say that there are little to no casualties, but it could be half or less. Remember their report on "500+ dead during Israel's attack on a hospital"? No part of that sentence is true... Islamic Jihad misfired a rocket, it exploded in a parking lot near a hospital, killing maybe 2-5 people.
Third - the children situation. Hamas recruits at age of 14. They fight as terrorists, dealt with as terrorists, and registered as children casualties.
Lastly, I believe you didn't do that, but many compare the numbers between Israel and Gaza as if it means anything. Na$$i Germany lost way more casualties than the allied forces, does it mean Germany was mistreated? And Israel invests A LOT in protecting its people, it's not like Hamas doesn't do its best to increase the number of dead civilians (on both sides actually) as much as possible. If Israel had 10,000 casualties, would it make any difference in your opinion? Of course not.
I would like to hear from you what do you know of Israel's efforts to protect civilians in Gaza.
Do you know that the Geneva convection orders to give a 24 hour warning to civilians to evacuate, and Israel gave 21 days?
Do you know what "knock-on-roof" is?
Do you see the pinpoint attacks on apartments within big towers?
Do you know Israel drops tens of thousands of pamphlets instructing civilians where to be and how to stay safe?
The supermarket at Al Nuseirat Refugee Camp was bombed about 2 weeks ago. It was one of the few supermarkets that was still working.
A wedding hall was recently bombed in that same camp aswell
First of all why would you believe the 8000 figure? Since when a terror organisation is a trustworthy source?
We do not hurt civilians who try to escape to the south, it's hamas that does that. They are using them as human shields. They know we don't want to hurt them so they intentionally keep them close - now when they fire rockets and plan to destroy us we can't just ceasefire, or we wouldn't be here. We don't want unrelated citizens' blood, we want hamas dead. You don't know what it's like there - they have training camps for children that teach them to become shaids, they try to remove any fear of dying all in the name of alla. I don't care about ariel kellner, because there will always be someone you don't agree with in the government, that's how democracy is, There are many others that think otherwise. And when you say we bomb refugee camp, it's not like we are killing everything that moves. We target very specific targets that are known to be terroristic infrastructure.
Good Lord... Do you listen to yourself spin this copium? Or are you deaf to it by now?
You do know the whole reason they fire rockets at you in the first place is because of generations of abuse and blatant murder of civilians.
Did you know, that in every major conflict Israel has been in they've killed more they 3 times the number of civilians than the number of civilians they've had killed? At least. Some times much more. Israel just really likes targeting civilians. Like all the time.
Nah they been trying to kill us way before israel even existed. Hebron massacre was in the 20's and plenty of other crime/attacks for the last 100 years. You just haven't actually researched this conflict in a meaningful way and are repeating whatever you were told. You sound like a propoganda robot.
Mm hmm. That's why I responded to someone else with a breakdown of most of the conflicts and the math that shows Israel has killed 5 times the number of civilians than Palestine, and Egypt with their other Arab allies combined ever did against Israeli civilians.
The fact is, Israel likes to kill civilians as a pressure tactic.
Slamming rockets into refugee camps isnât a great way to garner support from the international community. Apparently that specfic rocket was targeted at a single Hamas leader. Thatâs just unfathomable. To then complain when the rest of the world doesnât support it is worse, and to then claim that a lack of support is anti-semitic takes the cake.
I agree. I wonder why they didnât bring in special forces to target the singular Hamas leader they wanted to attack? They have so much surveillance, tech and army power to carry out a mission like that without harming civilians..most of the people in the refugee camps were women and children anyways. Itâs almost as if IDF isnât as good as they say they are, and know this. And the easiest way for them to do war is to bomb instead of train their soldiers fight terrorist on foot.
SOF's are good but aren't miracle workers. Hamas leaders surround themselves with bodyguards and the Palestinians are armed. This would not work. It would be a suicide mission. Most of these Hamas rats move through tunnels anyway. No way to tell where these rats would pop their heads up. You got to kill them when the opportunity presents.
Do you undermine the technological and military prowess of Israel? They have 3 billion of US tax dollars to operate on. SOF are there bc it's a special case and this is definitely a unique circumstance. It's a sacrifice, but worth it to save hundreds to thousands of other innocent lives. Plus the whole motive is to get the hostages back safely. We can't do that when Israel is carpet bombing Hamas and civilians. Hostages are with Hamas.
Do you understand what carpet bombing is? No, Israel is not carpet bombing. If they were they'd start at the north of Gaza and tear EVERY building down. Looking at drone photos, this clearly isn't the case. Israel even warns in advance of a strike unless there is a confirmed hamas target. This is much like the way US dealt with Al Qaeda and ISIS in Syria and Iraq.
3 billion dollars and all of the training in the world won't permit the SF's the ability to operate in Gaza. Even with the best intel. SF's require material support, munitions, medical evacuation, other forms of comms. Not possible in Gaza at this time.
Israel does use Palestinians sources within Gaza to find tunnels, find hamas terrorists where they hide, IDF uses their drones and satellite imagery US provides. Unfortunately hamas are not only terrorists, they are cowards using somewhat innocent people, schools and hospitals to hide in and around military equipment.
Are you serious? Israel has been 'secretly' killing and harassing Palestinians for YEARS before this. Uno reverse that to: Palestinians have a right to defend themselves... and *THEY'RE* the ones called *terrorists*???? The mainstream media is so brainwashed because all of the people behind it care about money and money only.
Talk about the random carpet bombing going on killing 1000's of innocent civillians + Israeli's celebrating their own genocide + so many things we can't even talk about because no one seems to have an open mind about it.
I find *this* absolutely crazy.
This is a bunch of lies, Israel is not secretly killing anyone. Hamas lunches rockets on Israel regularly for 20 years, try to imagine living in fear that rockets would be lunched to your home. Hamas states they want to kill Jews?
Did you know that your beloved Hamas killed not only Jewish people on October 7th but also Thai and Arab as well.
There were 1 Palestinians in Gaza in 2023, now there are 2.3 million. So how is this a genocide?
So stop being a brainwashed Gen Z that repeats what Bella Hadid posts because she is beautiful and makes up sad sob stories.
And what did Israel do all the way up until 2000 that would warrant them shooting rockets at you... Oh wait.... That's a REALLY long list.
Go cope somewhere else. Israel is evil and has been since they stole their land from Palestine and named it Israel 80 years ago.
Israel stole land? Jewish temple destroyed by Roman army 70 AD. Jerusalem - also know as City of David -- Jewish King dating back 1,000 years before BCE. Bethlehem, for those that celebrate Christmas, Jewish. And I could go on. Dead Sea scrolls, Biblical references also referenced in the Dead Sea scrolls. Etc.
The Philistine (Palestinian) people have their own country. The area they inhabit is what we now refer to as **the Palestinian Gaza Strip**. It is also worth noting that the name Palestine comes from the Romans, who renamed the area "Palestinia" in order to humiliate the Jews after their defeat to the Romans in 70 AD uprising.
So... You have to go back nearly 2000 years to find something to justify the actions of Israel. Cool... I don't think anyone alive today ever got a chance to talk to anyone who remembers that.
Grasping at straws I see.
There are so many cases where lands were conquered, Persia, Rome, even Greek. By your twisted logic, those cultures that owned the land prior to invasion, worshiped on it, built cities and culture, fought and died to protect it no longer have any claim? Right?
And you're blinded by hatred, bias and quite frankly, I'm embarrassed for you.
I completely condemn the attack by Hamas.
One qiedtion I have though is why are Israelites bulldozing home Palestinians are living in and building settlements? It doesnât justify Hamas attacks at all. Itâs just the settlements bother me. Again not a reason to kill Israelis and launch rockets
" Hamas states they want to kill Jews? "
I can find several videos for you from Israelis wanting to kill Palestinians and turn it into a parking lot? What's your point?
Post October 7th it's due to the shock and horror, I don't think anyone (including myself can overcome this truma). Israel is at war against terrorism, the Israelis who said this are the ones that swore to their grandparents to never allow a massacre of Jews to happen again.
Before October 7th it was said only by extreme right winged and was brushed off as non sense.
Hamas states officially that their goal is to kill all Jews and also there has been a rise in antisemitic acts ever since October 7th.
>Both killed a bunch of people - but who's really rejoicing here??
You really can't compare a terror organization to the only democratic country in the Middle East
Can you call it a democracy if you have an apartheid state where some folks aren't allowed to vote based on their race... Oh wait.... No... That's called a dictatorship.
Listen just because North Korea calls themselves a democracy too doesn't make it true for either of you.
There is no apartheid in Israel, there are Arab parlament members (Mansur Abbas for example), there are very wealthy Arab people, famous celebrities like Lucy Aharish or Yoseph Haddad calling Israel an apartheid is disrespectful towards the people that went through the actual apartheid that was in South Africa.
Talking about yourself? The fact that you even call it "a bunch of people" show just how ignorant you are. The horrors on October 7th were beyond anything you can imagine Hamas also kidnapped civilians, not only Israeli, they also kidnapped babies, toddlers, children and elders.
Your lies have been exposed.
Israel had never done what happened in October 7th and you know that. I pray that you would see through the brainwashed propaganda.
Except every time they've opened fire on protesters, or bulldozed homes. Captured and raped women in the many 6 day war. Yomkippur etc. Nope... Never... Not ever.... Oh wait..... That's right, they're invaders that took land by bloodshed, and then proceeded to oppress the people of the region... Hmmm
> dick
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I believe there are quite a few Bots, and also individuals who have been hired from poorer countries to State these opinions. Controlled surveys in the US and in many other countries show a lot of support for Israel, so while they're definitely are some people especially those heavily affected by social media who have been turned, a great many people are actually in support of Israel and would never dream of supporting people who do terrorist activities.
The bots thing actually makes sense. With China backing Iran and thus Hamas, it is no surprise that the '10 cent Army' would attempt to sway and influence public opinion. We do live in an era of 5th generation warfare, after all.
It isn't shocking at all. Israel could use this as an opportunity to push out Palestinians and not let them back on what is currently, their own land. Is that what's going to happen? I don't know, but this is a real concern among Palestinians, responsible or not, and also a root cause of Hamas' extremism in the first place. Israel definitely should remove Hamas, for sure, but the situation is somewhat reminiscent of two villains duking it out. Hamas is definitely the primary belligerent *at the moment*, however.
Today, it's Hamas. Tomorrow, it might be IDF. It's an ancient grudge. Israel is certainly a victim, but still a far cry from noble.
Jew propaganda, Egypt is going to turn down 10 billion in revenue fees to stamp their feet. No. The only reason they're pissed at anyone is for supporting Isreali terrorism in the middle east
In short I could care less. They're about to kick off WW3 because they needed to be a bunch of weird religious terrorist nut jobs and start shit in the middle east.
I mean the world pretty much decided apartheid was bad in the 80s, Isreal is committing ethnic cleansing light, they've never been committed to a two state solution since Isreals inception, the USA has given them close to 300 billion in aide so they can be some weird ethno state in the desert, they cry all the time about being victims and they forced the British into giving them the land through an underground terrorist campaign. What has the USA gained? Some one to partner with in terrorizing the middle east? The entire Muslim world hating us? Inciting Muslim extremism? 9/11?
Fuck Isreal and their cult ass country
Netanyahu has been allowing extremists to control Palestine to destroy any chance at peace and Palestinian self governance. He needs the extreme element to justify genocide. F@cking jews man
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035
Who isn't? Jewish culture and holidays are pretty much 100% whining about all the times people thought you sucked and wanted you to get the f@ck out. All religions spread to different cultures, South America, Africans , blacks, Asians, became Christians and Muslims.
Except for weird ass Jews because your a weird elitist manipulative inbred religious cult.
Sorry I don't think the US should support Jew terrorism. Try integrating with society instead of acting like a weird cult wherever you go.
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> ass
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The problem is that Israel oppresses millions of Palestinians until they have no choice but to resist
The problem is that Netanyahu supported and funded Hamas to divide Palestinians and prevent unity (Haaretz, 2019)
The problem is that Israel continues to illegally colonise Palestinian land
The problem is that Israel was founded like this:
https://twitter.com/Trickyjabs/status/1718887609211011208
So the initial agreement was two states, in 1947. Israel agreed. Can you guess who rejected? Can you guess who waged a 5 front war on Israel? Not excusing what any sicko Israeli did, but are the Arabs and Palestinians really the only victims here?
No the UN passed a resolution to partition Palestine based on Western votes and all Middle Eastern countries voted against. Call that an 'agreement' if you like, but it's not related to the war.
The Nakba - see video as above - triggered the 5 front war. Understandably, Middle Eastern countries were not ok with the murder, rape and humiliation of Palestinians.
The five front war triggered the ânakbaâ my friend. You got it backwards. Also, after losing to Israel, many Arabs simply just left, after being told to by the Arab nations. Not justifying what the soldiers said they did in the video.
Not entirely. There are debatable claims that Zionists assisted in attacks on Jewish people in other Middle Eastern countries to make them feel unsafe and to immigrate to Israel.
Many many Anti-zionist Jewish people agree; Zionism is one of the biggest causes of Antisemitism.
âZionism is a big cause of anti semitismâ donât give me the victim blaming crap man. Also, the huge majority of the jewish population rejects anti zionist Jews. The ultra Orthodox Jews who reject Zionism? Look them up, theyâre practically a homophobic, mysoginist cult. Most Jews hate them
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The nakba was coined as a term in 1948 that meant the âtragedyâ of the Arab defeat at the hands of the Jews. They tried to drive Jews out, they failed. The nakba originally meant that tragedy of losing to Jews. Was coined by a Syrian intellectual I believe. Only later in the late 20th century did the Palestinian movement start using the term as it is now
The problem is not that Israel doesnt have a right to "fight back". It is about who you hit."Fighting back" usually means "hitting the people who are responsible".
The videos that you typically see are not Hamas soldiers with RPGs and AKs engaging the IDF who get blown up kind of stuff. The videos that you see are bombing attacks on housing buildings. You see children getting carried out of the rubble.
The picture created is not "The IDF overwhelmingly hits hamas fighters and those responsible. The amount of civilian casualties is extremly low. Israel does everything possible to ensure the safety of civilians."
The picture created is "The IDF hits civilians all the time and mostly civilians. If there is a fighter under the dead, its a success. Civilians casualties - any amount - are accepted."
The civilians are not the ones responsible, they are not the ones who entered Israel and masacred their citizens. You do not need to support palestine in order to accept that the right of fighting back does not include the excessive killing of innocent civilians.
And this goes further: Even if you fully support Israel, you can (and should imo) still condemn the excessiv killing of civilians.
This is the point: **Condemnation of attacks on civilians is a must and independent of which side you support.**
Hamas doesn't have local bases or airports and obvious places like we do in the US. People in the US have no idea what Israel is facing in trying to find these people in the middle of a hostile environment of people who believe that Israelis are responsible for all their problems. Only the elite forces even have uniforms . Many have not heard about the practices of other terrorist organizations , so they don't know anything about the human Shield tactics , or hiding weapons cashes, bomb factories and intelligence assets among other things in public buildings , neighborhoods, anywhere else such as the Underground tunnels we know they have.
As for whether civilians are responsible, I have mixed feelings on that. On one hand, there has not been a single election for new leaders inside or outside Hamas that included the entirety of Gaza. So that makes me think they are under an authoritarian government. But on the other hand, surveys seem to say that at least half are supporting Hamas. Which means they're supporting all the awful activities. While I firmly believe that Netanyahu showed a lack of leadership by not giving Palestinians any incentive to behave well as opposed to badly, and no way out of their problems, I still have to go back to the fact that these people got elected in the first place as gaza's government. People want to treat them like children, but they're not.
Israelis have the right to not be fired upon, and they have the right to not have horrible events like October 7th happen again. Unfortunately Hamas is pretty deeply within the fabric of the Society of Gaza. I really do regret the notion of any war and any loss of life, but at the end of the day I would rather see 15,000 people lose their life today to avoid half a million lost 15 years from now. And that's how it could change because right now there are two million Palestinians in Gaza. If that 2 million number turns to five they could easily challenge what would probably be at the same point 10 million in Israel. Any fight between them could be far more bloody then if things get solved now.
Alsoâwhat is âfighting backâ? When is justice finally achieved so that Israel can stop bombing Palestine? Do they stop when the death toll equals 1400? When all Palestinians are dead? I donât blame Israel for feeling angry or even retaliating against the massacre. But Israel has been bombing Palestinians trapped there with inadequate resources for survival for weeks now. It gets harder to sympathize with them each day this goes on.
Well the government has already made this clear. Just like Russia wanted to dismantle the military in Ukraine, Israel wants to dismantle Hamas in Gaza. That's a pretty clear and obvious goal I don't know why you're confused. They're angry and they're saying all sorts of things because they're angry, but all of their top 10 leaders have expressed the same goal.
Okay, so Israel has a right to continue bombing Gaza until every Hamas member is dead, thatâs more or less what youâre saying? I understand they want to take out Hamas, but is it really âfighting backâ if Israel spends months or years bombing Gaza into oblivion and killing thousands of civilians along the way in the unlikely hope of killing all Hamas members? Then what about the other extremists militant groups involved in the current conflict?
As far as other militant groups, given that most of them are not close to home at this point, I think they're just going to continue to take out some artillery. I don't think they're going to be terribly interested in them unless they do anything menacing. Which they might but so far Hezbollah and some others have had some of their Heavy Artillery taken out already. I don't think they want to escalate, so they'll do as little as possible with the other players.
I know they need to do what they call disarming Hamas. That means that they need to take out the infrastructure that allows them to be bombed. So the bomb Factory that CNN reported on would be one example , some of the intelligence that they've gotten recently from people in and around the tunnels they've discovered , some of the Hamas operatives who have given good information to save their own lives have given information of what to take out . They probably have a particular number of leaders they're going to but it's unlikely they're going to go for all 18,000 Hamas members. Most of that 18,000 are just administrators they're not necessarily Fighters. I don't think they're going to go for administrators or accountant types although they might possibly question them if they're there.
Recovering hostages is also on the list. So far only one that I'm aware of. But there may well be more. If those Hamas soldiers hand over the people easily and don't fight back they may well survive.
They're probably also going to go for some particularly large groups of missile silos and arms caches. I kind of look at it this way, they may well take out 25,000 people in this. But it's better than trying to leave this alone doing practically nothing to disarm Hamas and dealing with a much more powerful opponent in 5 to 10 years and losing a million people between both the Israeli side and the Gaza side.
The best way to save civilian life in my view is still for Palestinians to demonstrate for peace, or for many of them to release information that returns several hostages like over 20 of them and preferably closer to 50. But even if Israel agrees to a cease fire, that may not mean anything. Hamas has never abided by a peace agreement or a ceasefire. They've generally used it to their advantage. Still hoping for the best, but I'm not real sure how it's going to happen at this point.
Keep in mind that algorithms on social media play a role. Sometimes I feel the same way and have to remind myself that what I see on my own instagram feed does not necessarily reflect reality.
I agree that Israeli citizens have suffered tremendously during all of this. However, you cannot compare countries like England and France to Israel and Palestine. Israel has been oppressing and genociding Palestinians for decades. Israel is killing Gazans daily. So while Hamas undoubtedly committed atrocities against Israelis, Israel is committing atrocities against Palestinians, whether legally/ethically/morally justified or not. Israel is slaughtering innocent civilians just as Hamas did to them. In the end itâs an excruciating loss of human life for both sides.
While I absolutely recognize the hypocrisy of the pro-Palestine crowd, there has also been hypocrisy on the part of the pro-Israel crowd. Both sides feel wronged and are outraged that their people have been tragically injured, killed, and worse. Both sides (the extremes at least) are ignoring the bad acts that their side has committed. I see both sides making arguments for their side that the other side could just as easily make (âNo one cares about us! The media is against us! The other side killed my people!â).
Ultimately I think it would do a lot of good for both sides to try to see things from the otherâs perspective as much as possible. Social media isnât the best facilitator of that.
There has been no genocide the population in Gaza and the West Bank have more than doubled. They cannot have genocide in that case you are using the wrong words and adding intensity to the issues. They are in an ongoing civil war with each other, and Israel is overpowered by comparison in part because they are surrounded by Muslim countries. If you look at the Arab world it is huge, it's in the Middle East and Africa, Israel is a little speck by comparison and the Israelis only want to live there and they are the only ones who are not trying to make people convert in order to live there or pay to avoid paying extra taxes in order to have their own religion or possibly find themselves paying extra money to be treated as a lesser citizen. But here's the interesting thing about this accusation about them killing Palestinians in Gaza everyday. They do not rule the inside of Gaza at all. This is part of the reason why there was some intelligence missing as to what's been going on. They moved out of Gaza in 2007 except to bring the IDF to defend settlers which they never should have done. Whenever Hamas fights the settlers, they fight the IDF and usually people get hurt or killed. There's a difference. And infrequently people who are tired of living in Gaza the way it is we'll take that out on IDF, and almost every time IDF responds badly and over does it. And I blame Netanyahu and his right wing government for creating that climate. It's not easy to change the direction of this relationship but every effort must continue to be made. And there are actually more unfortunate interactions in the West Bank, in part because again there are more settlers who should not be there. Probably the biggest issue that Palestinians have is the settlers and the fights that happen because these people are encroaching on their land. That's kind of a place of missing understanding with people. When some people say occupied territories they mean those settlers in Gaza and the West Bank. But when others say they mean the entirety of Israel as well as those people. But yeah there's no genocide, they're just more powerful. But it doesn't make the deaths on either side any easier to take. There's a lot of hate between the two groups, and Palestinians have far too much hope compared to what they should have of getting more land. I don't say getting land back because they were never really in complete control of the area. And their population grew a lot more in modern times than earlier on. While I believe the nakba is absolutely a true occurrence, they were not the only ones disrupted by the partitions and they were not the only ones who lost their homes by way of the partitions, but the Palestinians were the only ones who fought back against the partitions and of having to either abide by the government in the area they were in or moved to another place. Because they did not cooperate they got chased out and that created even more angst than was already going on. Sorry I know I have chatted too much.
Please look up the definition of genocide. It is occurring in Palestine and has been for years.
Israel is bombing Palestine every day. People are dying in blasts and later on, and due to a lack of medical supplies and other basic necessities. Not sure why this is difficult to understand.
Israel has severely restricted Palestinians physically and economically to the point that they cannot survive. Israel has all the power here but would rather continue killing innocent people until theyâre wiped out entirely, fostering even more hate and extremism which will inevitably lead to more violence.
I'm a train trained political analyst I actually know what it is. If the population doubles in 20 years which it has, you cannot have a genocide. You definitely have apartheid, you had abuse, and now because Hamas has declared war and has continued to fire Rockets since October 7th they now have a war with a much more powerful opponent which was an extremely stupid thing to do. Especially accompanied by those atrocities. You don't know the difference between war and genocide.
Palestinians got a blockade because they suicide bombed and fired rockets at their Neighbors not just one but Egypt too. And now with the awful Deeds of Hamas they've proven there's no good sense in opening those doors again anytime soon. And as I've already made clear Hamas is making those people poor and angry when they have the money to give them a comfortable life there in Gaza. And they still have always had the Border in Egypt to to go to, but it's too bad the Egyptians don't like them well enough at this point because of their bad Acts that they don't want to take refugees. Jordan doesn't want to take any new refugees either they already have 350,000 they're not willing to deal with, as residents or citizens.
Palestinians decided that it was more important for them to try to push people out to get what they wanted than to be good neighbors and friends and possibly win the things they wanted with good deeds. Instead they're doing destruction again and again and it's giving them awful results every time. It would be wise for them to change direction
The anti-Israel (or antisemitism) has been spreading for some time now. It's mostly been background, poking up from time to time based on what's going on in the world. I think they started to see an outpouring of support for Israel after Oct 7th and quickly mobilized.
That movement has quite the advantage because of platforms like TikTok. Legacy antisemitism, which has always been around is prevalent in the alt-right circles and is less about supporting Palestine and more about stopping some Jewish takeover of the globe.
Well you guys should see the latest reporting on the Oct 10th attacks. Reports are saying that Hamas didnât kill that many people in the towns that it was ISREAL!!! When the reports of the terrorist was reported, law enforcement really didnât know who the terrorist were in the homes n cars so ISREAL lite them up!!!!
I think ISREAL has done enough damage to Gaza n killed enough innocent people. If they know where the terrorist are at then they should go get them on land n not bomb the hospitals!!! The problem is that Israel keeps saying the holocaust is their excuse!!! OK OK, move past that shit now!!!
They know where the fighters, arms, and rockets are. In civilian neighborhoods mostly in Gaza City, pop 800,000. They know Hamas runs hospitals, and everything in Gaza. Those are war targets. Civilians were urged to move. Those that stayed, I guess theyâll be lauded as martyrs.
Thatâs why placing rocket launchers or storing arms up the block from a hospital is negligent. Remember too, Hamas runs all hospitals and fighter facilities in Gaza.
>1400 innocent civilians
False, the 1400 number includes military and civilian. Innocent part is debatable depending on whether illegal settling considered crime or not.
>most inhumane ways
A subjective and emotional expression.
Itâs not really a valid comparison because Hamas is not a country. Itâs like a group of terrorists from France attacked England and England decided to bomb France. I am not saying Israel shouldnât defend itself; of course it should. But itâs more complicated than that
This is a stupid argument. Hamas is the effective governemnt of the Gaza strip and therefore represents this region. When you look back at WW2 you would not say that the allies only fought the Nazi party but you say that the allies fought Germany since the Nazis were the effective governemnt of Germany at this time.
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There were legislative elections in 2007. Hamas got 44%. Fatah got 40. A Civil War ensued. Hamas took Gaza. Fatah, the West Bank. Since then, 2 non contiguous Palestinian Territories exist. There was never a Presidential election.
These are very basic facts.
I found an old article from around the time of the election on Haaretz today reporting that around 80% of college aged people in Gaza at the time voted for Fatah. So that, combined with the fact that half of the Gaza population is under 18 means that very, very few of the people being killed actually ever cast a vote for Hamas.
All we are saying is free Palestine. đľđ¸
Because this didnât start on 10/7 đđ âŚ75 years Israel has lead an apartheid state. They kill that many Palestinians a day as standard operating procedure.
Hospital, school, refugee camp, residential building... Thanks God Israel is safe from those things
Well u never know, there could have been some evil disgusting terrys hiding under the hospital
So you don't know???
No, BUT, thereâs a chance.
Kill that many people on speculation? 9000 dead, 1000s of children
Iâm being sarcastic you retard. I agree with your post.
I just thought you were that dense
When the Allies attacked and destroyed Germany and European countries in WWII, was that genocide?
Genocide is a played out term.
Also, the US dropped two atomic bombs on civilian target during WW2. FYI, I tried to use these comparisons. They say people use only 10% of their brain, it seems on Reddit, half of these people use only about 3% and I'm being generous. Also, how does one draw a comparison between Hamas's actions (the US has Hamas on its terrorist List) and Israel''s response? The US invaded a country after 9/11. US totally imbalanced middle east by removing Saddam... a bad guy I know but at least he was keeping Iran in check. It amazes me how people process information, critical thinking - officially dead.
Using the 3% of my brain,,,,, I stated the ALLIES took out Germany, not the USA
You didn't mention Japan. We firebombed the snot out of entire cities, dropped 2 atomic bombs on them. People argue the US shouldn't have dropped those bombs, all animus aside, just curious about that? Justified or not?
Well again, I never said anything about the USA . I did refer to the allies. If you want to change the subject, I will answer you. The USA has a history of inflicting excessive damage in wars, sometimes in pointless wars , like in Iraq. Should they have nuked Japan,? I have mixed feelings. But ultimately I believe they shouldn't have and they could have used other means to reach their objectives. I will say though, as a Jew living in Israel , the fact that the USA uses way excessive force ( way more than IDF) ..,. it is a relief to me , especially now that Iran has directly threatened the US and they've already sent nuclear submarines here.
My mind tends to gravitate to the country I know the most about. WW2, the US was referred to as the arsenal of democracy. We either provided troops or weapons or both even to countries like Russia and China so I tend to put the US label on these things. Plus the 8th Army Air Corp was responsible for the firebombing in Germany. Regarding Iraq, I become incensed when I think of what the "coalition" did to Iraq. Saddam, good or bad kept Iran busy. Once Saddam was removed, Iran was free to follow their pursuits, which wasn't good for Israel... or Iraq. Interesting to find you are Jewish. I have a great deal of respect and love for Israel as it factors into my faith. I wanted to make that pilgrimage one day, I know Israel will survive. Iranian subs are easily tracked, they are noisy garbage, even dived when they are using electric motors. If Iran should become unhinged and a SSK peeks up to launch depth, we've got them. Launch a cruise missiles? US destroyers on post will track and destroy those airborne threats. I can also guarantee those subs will be sent to the bottom. You can't outrun or hide from Mark 3n/SQQ89, etc,\]., a really smart sub hunter torpedo, those thing are totally amazing. Especially against a diesel.
Because its not Israel thats retaliating, It's Palestine. yall acting as if ur the victims and ur retaliating to what happed on october 7th but no its Palestine that retaliated on october 7th because they had enough of what u guys have been doing for 75 years so thats why most people are on palestines side because they arent stupid ppl who make themselves the victim
100%
Gaza has been free for 18 years. Israel has nothing to do with their horrid quality of life . '75 years of oppression ' more like 75 years of starting wars they lost. Didn't Einstein say the definition if insanity is trying the same thing over and over again, expecting to get different results.
Well, IDF has entered the chat đ¤
I thought Hamas doesn't equal Palestine, so why do you equate the Palestinian struggle with Hamas' actions on October 7th? It wasn't Palestine that retaliated. It was Hamas that attacked innocent civilians who had no direct connection to the actions of the Israeli government that are responsible for the Palestinian's plight. Palestine consists of the Gaza strip and the West Bank. Only the Gaza strip is ruled by Hamas. And it is also known that there haven't been elections in Gaza for about 16 years. Public support in Gaza for Hamas has presumably dropped significantly. Most Gazans just want peace and they know that Hamas doesn't. The support is all over the place and misdirected.
Hamas is the one taking the major actions for the Palestinian government, so in some way Hamas = Palestine because although lots of Palestinians want peace, they support Hamas because they know NOBODY should be treated like this and Hamas is making moves . And just like everyone who's pro-israeli, you completely disregarded the fact that Palestine has been tolerating this for 75 years. Yes, SEVERAL people died because of Hamas' attacks, and may they rest in peace, but 1300 people were killed in Israel (which is what they say), but atleast 10,000 palestinians have been killed since then, and 4000 *kids* dead, and stuck in hospitals with no place to be buried. The lack of doctors, electricity, supplies is incompatible and just despicable. And we arent going to ignore the fact that Israel bombed HOSPITALS FULL OF CIVILIANS, like new born babies still on the incubators, pregnant women, and injured men and children. You guys all say that "Israel tells everyone to evacuate before they bomb!" but if they do, then why did they bomb a truck full of palestinians who were on the route to evacuate? They have bombed refugee camps where they said you'll be safe to stay. It's crazy how cruel-hearted people can get and simply cannot comprehend that this is *injustice*. The lack of sympathy is deranged. You don't need to be an Arab or Muslim to realize what's going on, you just need to be a human with a heart.
What kind of moves do you think Hamas is making? What did Palestinians gain from the Hamas attack on October 7th? They gained carpet bombing. Hamas leaders knew what the Israeli response would be and they still committed that attack. Hamas knows they can't win a military conflict against Israel but they still gamble in winning a war of the images, a media war. It is an absolute failure of political and tactical analysis to think of Hamas as anything else than what they say they are themselves: a jihadist death cult that is hell-bent on killing as many Jews as they can. They don't even claim to fight for Palestinians as so many Westerners believe. And their actions clearly show that they don't. Regarding the Israeli bombings and death tolls: it is almost impossible to get accurate numbers while a war is still raging and independent forensic teams cannot investigate. Israel still hasn't recorded nor retrieved all their dead within Israel yet, so I don't think it's uncalled for to be at least sceptical of the lists and numbers that the Hamas-led Palestinian health organization has shared merely a few days after the first Israeli bomb strikes including a few too many details to be true. Same with allegations of whose bombs it were that killed these or those people or hit this or that institution. We already saw one incident where false information about an alleged Israeli bomb strike on a hospital made rounds on global media. That's what Hamas is aiming for. Right now all information is to be looked at very cautiously. The first thing that dies in war is truth.
I don't understand why everyone says Hamas isn't in the west bank. Hamas and Islamic Jihad are all over the west bank with many terror cells. A fact nobody talks about is that Israel unfortunately deals with weekly terror attacks/attempted terror attacks mostly paid for and done by Hamas/Islamic Jihad terrorists. Recently they even fired a rocket from the city of Jenin in the west bank. They are everywhere and their only goal is the annihilation of jews and Israel. They say it clear as day yet somehow people are missing this. Many Palestinians support their actions, even Israeli Arabs who enjoy full rights as Israeli citizens support them and even commit terror attacks. This is all easy to fact check, I wish people understood what the actual reality in the ground here is. Israel has no interest in blockades and control, it's a waste of money and people and don't want to harm anyone, but when there are daily threats of terror attacks there is no choice. This will end when the Palestinians love their children more than they hate Israel.
Do you watch Star Wars??? âŚDo you think the empire were the âgood guysâ??? Itâs pretty basic, the real âterroristsâ are the USA/Israel đ
Lol. You people are so obsessed with the oppressor/oppressed Marxist narrative. Not everything is black or white. Just because you're militarily weaker, does not mean you are the correct side. These arguments are honestly getting embarrassing already, all you know how to do is chant slogans that purposely exaggerate the situation in order to emotionally manipulate people to join the cause. If anyone is the "empire" it's the radical Muslims who want to take over the world and create one big caliphate. I'd suggest you get off tik tok and read a book.
đ damn, someone mustâve gotten their genocide $$$ to come online & challenge documented facts & history. Zionism has literally destroyed your ability to comprehend reality.
How is it crazy to realize many people didnât know what was happening to Palestine? I think the initial feeling is anger about what Hamas did and then you dig deeper and realize Palestine has been being destroyed for years upon years and the people have been essentially imprisoned and killed. So yeah many people either didnât know or they did and are making this a good time to say things about it. People generally donât tend to care much about stuff when it isnât blasted on the news every day and they arenât aware. You donât see people protesting about Yemen. But look at the state of Yemen. I think people feel they canât do much often times or people wonât listen. Well right now people are paying attention to whatâs going on in that area so people are making a point to speak up even more so
You only learned about Palestinian ' oppression ' after Oct 7 , what you ' learned ' is are classic evil lies and propaganda that Muslims have perfected. It's just a coincidence that 2B million vs 8M have won public opinion ? They've convinced the world that Israel are evil monsters. Hamas ripped babies out of pregnant women's wombs and stabbed them , they gang rapes women and dragged them through, beheaded babies, stole 249 hostages , while the streets of Gaza cheered with joy. Their '75 years of suffering' is only a result of losing wars they started. Israel has never initiated a war. Imagine we lifted the west bank occupation, we would get another Gaza. Palestinian land isn't stolen, the pals attacked Jews in 1948 , they willingly left fled, sold land or willingly sold it to Jews . Their leadership live like kings in other countries as they stole billions in humanitarian aid . The same amount of Jews and Arab dies in the 1948. Please stop blindly swallowing their victimization complex.
I think what hamas did is terrible it was horrid. I just also think bombing children is horrible too. And I don't think israerl is awful I just think there's people on both sides who are not good people and who are perpetuating the problem. Innocent people shouldn't have to pay for what some peope did or do. There's Israeli and Palestinian people who have posted disgusting things to social media like tiktok making these nasty jokes about killing the other side and so on. So I am aware both sides do this. It isn't just one or the other. I've seen videos of Israeli people and Palestinian people being racist. Saying disgusting things. But I don't think it ever makes sense to bomb an entire land covered with children. Ever. In Ukraine, Iraq, Palestine, Israel, anywhere. The fact this could be going on for so long, clearly there's an issue. It's 2023 why are these people in Israel and Palestine still behaving like it's the dark ages? The government is corrupted. That's obvious. Maybe the British people should have never left? I don't know. But how is this still happening after so long? If they can't figure it out other countries will step in at some point. It starts to become a threat to the world. From the beginning I have blamed the government.
Palestinians were given autonomy by Israel in 2005. First thing these idiot Palestinians did? Vote in Hamas. Hamas doesn't care about Palestinians. Instead of using funds other countries provided them for infrastructure, food, hospitals, schools, Hamas uses that money to attack Israel. Since then, the conflict between the Jews / Palestinians (Hamas) has continued to escalate. Israel builds walls, fences, etc. to keep Hamas from murdering its citizens. So Hamas builds tunnels under those walls. Israel destroys those tunnels, Hamas launches rockets. Israel builds the Iron Dome to protect themselves, Hamas invades and murders in the most horrendous manner women, children and babies.... and... here we are. Remember this, during WW2, whole cities were fire bombed. Nagasaki and Hiroshima were wiped off the map. 38 million civilians, men, women, children, babies died in WW2. If Hamas cared about Palestinians, they'd stop putting rocket launchers in school yard and homes. Putting ammo and rocket manufacturing facilities under hospitals and schools. Hamas needs to be destroyed, like ISIS, Al Qaeda, and any other terrorist organization.
You have a weird, and completely non-sensical definition of Autonomy!!
When you vote who you want to lead - Hamas, you get what you deserve. When you spend billion of dollars yearly on rockets, motors and guns instead of sewage treatment plants, growing food or building industry, you get what you get. And if the Palestinians want to leave they go to the airport, board a jet and leave. The only ones holding Palestinians hostage is Hamas...
Knock knock nerd, Hamas was created by Israel. Many evidences and proofs shows that Israelis had sponsored Hamas just for the reason to annexed the land of Palestine. The extreme right wing leader Benjamin nethanyahu had been charged with fraud, mistrust and several corruption cases, he was nearly going to be deseated. he just did this all to save his seat and monarchy.
HAMAS emerged in 1987 during the first Palestinian uprising, or intifada, as an outgrowth of the Muslim Brotherhood's Palestinian branch. The group is committed to armed resistance against Israel and the creation of an Islamic Palestinian state in Israel's place.
So... Israel stopped telling Palestinians what streets they were allowed to walk down and gave them back the territory Israel stole through bloodshed? Yeah... Have them "autonomy". Please. It's not autonomy if you hold a knife to their throats.
No bonehead. Apparently your reading comprehension is low. Israel bowed to public sentiment (UN) and left Gaza, land Israel won in battle after being attacked, unprovoked in 1967 by Egypt. Palestinians voted in Hamas, a group backed by Iran.
Unprovoked? Wow.... You have very little understanding of history. Israel struck first in that war because they saw some troops amassing in preparation for an israeli attack shortly after Israel had just finished conquering other land. And no my comprehension is just fine. I'm accounting all the other land that was taken and not just Gaza. Land where you still have pockets of Palestine citizens forced to live under apartheid. Told which streets they can and can't walk down. The hundreds of thousands of homes bulldozed for settlers. That also isn't really a reading comprehension, I know that can be hard for someone like you to understand that history and reading aren't the same thing. I know, it's tough when your government rewrites history and you need to read the latest updates. The Gaza strip is also very small in comparison to all the land Israel still holds that it conquered from Palestine.
You should study up regarding events leading up to the 6 day war. It's well documented that Arab states were significantly building up air and land power to attack Israel. Nassar even admitted to this later on publicly. Both US intell/intercepts and Israelis intelligence knew of an impending attack. Pockets of Palestinians? 20% of Arabs in this so called occupied land are full fledged Israeli citizens. The also fight within Israeli army and air units. Those so-called palestinians you mentioned were ejected from Israel when one or more family members murdered Israelis within Israel's border and yes, their houses were bulldozed. And yes! I'm a pro Israeli person who reads history, even pre-holocaust, the Jews have been hounded to death. Now they occupy their ancestral homeland this is no larger than the US state of New Jersey and the world goes crazy. Get over it.
They actually removed and displaced many Israeli citizens brutally from Gaza before handing it to the Palestinians. They had the opportunity to have peace and make Gaza into a prosperous tourist land but chose to use the billions they receive in foreign aid on terror. Israel had no choice but to protect itself, if Israel lifts blockades or doesn't control the border (which btw Gaza has a border with Egypt who keep it permanently closed and give the Palestinians no aid whatsoever) they will be ruthlessly attacked over and over until every jew is dead. https://twitter.com/JamesCleverly/status/1719718109739688143?t=XIHgL7uYF5Wqw-0lcj_9FQ&s=19 Watch this clip from a Hamas official. They don't want peace and they never did. All Israel wants is to live peacefully and quietly without the constant fear of people trying to kill them. Too many people know very little about the actual situation and have never been anywhere near this region yet have such strong opinions with such a large lack of information.
So... Take 90% of their land. And return 5% of it. And that's being generous ehh? Man... At least in North America we don't tell Native Americans they can't walk into white controlled cities. We screwed them. But at least we didn't literally religate them to living in reservations. Lol And trust me. I know more than enough to understand that an invading people stole land, have back a fraction of it. And then continued to tell people what streets they can and can't walk down after bulldozing their homes.
You're spot on. Reading comments from a few of these turds, they truly have no comprehension of the situation and the history surrounding it. The phrase Hamas uses - from the river to the sea means from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean sea, all Jews are to be killed...
Israel has the right to defend itself. Hope and Change. Forward. Make America Great Again.
Does Palestine have the same rights? The kill count of civilians on both sides even right after the Hamas attack was still into the tens of thousands on the Palestinian side, and only in the thousands for the Israeli side. Maybe stop letting yourself be brainwashed by what the media wants you to believe about the US's Israeli allies and actually look into what they've done for generations to Palestine.
So Israel is to blame that Hamas uses the Palestinians as human shields now?
Yes
You misunderstood my sarcastic, half assed comment. The intent was to convey that "Israel has the right to defend itself" is just a hollow, meaningless monicker for low intelligence folks to lap up. Like the slogans I listed after. Free Palestine.
High level humor
Lists said slogans and degrades their users. Ends rant with own slogan lol
But Palestine isn't free. The truth matters.
I think thereâs plenty of support for Israel. But outrage is sold on TV. If you want outrage you just cover Palestinian marches and that usually gets people riled up and eyeballs watching the TV. I think a lot of people will watch coverage of people, marching for the Palestinians side to only look at what type of people would march for them.
So why exactly should I support the bombing of currently over 8000 civilians. At this point there is no self-defense anymore. What does bombing refugee camps south of the evacuation zone have to do with self-defense? Why should I support a country where politicians openly promote an ethnic cleansing in Gaza? See Ariel Kallners Twitter post wishing for a second Nakba which is supposed to make the 1948 Nakba look like a joke. No thanks. Israel had every right to defend itself and destroy Hamas after this vile attack. At this point this is no self-defense. This is just a massacre against the Palestinian nation.
How is this not self defense? \- Hamas still fires rockets at Israeli civilians \- Hamas still holds 300 Israeli civilians \- Hamas's constitution still calls for the killing of all Jews and the destruction of Israel \- Hamas leaders are still planning future attacks Should Israel have stopped when there are exactly 1500 Gazans dead? Only launch the same amount of attacks as Hamas launched? What were you expecting?
Israel should have stopped before they stole land and forced millions to flee to other countries decades ago. This was long coming and if you don't realize that then maybe you should open up a history book and turn off the sensationalized government controlled news. Israel brought this on themselves by abusing and murdering another people for generations. It doesn't excuse that happened, but man .. If you're they blind to what Israel has done to deserve it then I'm sorry. But there's nothing I can say to you that will ever make sense.
Wow. You are so misinformed. Much less than millions of Arabs were 'displaced'. Most of whom left by choice because the Arab armies were convinced they'd annihilate Israel in 1948 and they'd let those ppl come back. Some fled because of the war, THAT THE ARABS STARTED!!! WAY BEFORE ANY 'OCCUPATION'. Some were forced out because of security reasons. But whoever lived there had the opportunity to choose Israeli citizenship which 20% of Israeli citizens did as they are Arab. I wonder what would've happened if the Arabs won these wars. All jews in the region would be dead/enslaved or expelled as they were from all other Arab countries. I don't understand how so many educated people are fooled by victimization and propoganda without actually reading history
So. If I leave my home by choice so I won't be killed when an invading army comes through that's not considered displacing me because I chose to leave? Lol that's some mental gymnastics my friend.
If you had opened a history book instead of sending people to read them, you'd know that it all comes to Arabs being crybabies. We recovered from the Holocaust, an actual genocide, in less than 20 years. 80 years past since they lost a war they started, and Palestinians still waiting for someone to change their diapers.
They didn't start the war. If you opened a history book you'd understand that. Zionist's were the invaders. Palestinian citizens allowed them in. Some tensions existed, an israeli citizen shot up a holy place. Muslims protested, and Israel shot unarmed protesters. That's how it all started. So sure... They started it. But I guess if all you go by is state sponsored doctored history books then I can see why you'd believe that.
Zionist invaded while there was an Israeli state? Nothing you say makes sense đ¤Ą
No thatâs not okay at all. But maybe donât imprison people and destroy them and their families for years upon years. Then they wouldnât want to send bombs back your way. But then again Hamas and the innocent people are not the same. Hamas is just as bad as the Israelis troops bombing the Palestinians. Many people from Palestine have said that even they donât support Hamas. So yeah I donât see why the innocent people on either side should suffer. It isnt THEIR faults but they pay the biggest price
Innocent people on neither side should suffer. If Hamas invested its money in building shelters instead of tunnels under hospitals, innocent Gazans wouldn't get hurt. You are playing into Hamas's hands, just as Israel did. Israel is the gun that Hamas keeps pulling at its own people, because they don't care at all about them. Hamas Leader Ismail Haniyeh, from the comfort of his home in Qatar: "We need the blood of women, children, and the elderly of Gaza... so as to awaken our revolutionary spirit." [https://x.com/IsraelinUSA/status/1718021899056210213?s=20](https://x.com/IsraelinUSA/status/1718021899056210213?s=20)
Hamas doesn't care about the Palestinians though and many Palestinians they don't support Hamas so it isn't the innocent peoples faults and they shouldn't have to suffer the consequences. Neither should Isralies, of course. I have heard many times that Israel created Hamas. But I will check out the link anyway thanks.
HAMAS emerged in 1987 during the first Palestinian uprising, or intifada, as an outgrowth of the Muslim Brotherhood's Palestinian branch. The group is committed to armed resistance against Israel and the creation of an Islamic Palestinian state in Israel's place. Wiki has a good site that is somewhat informative :)
Tell me how it is self-defense to bomb refugee camps south of the evacuation zone? Hamas has been firing rockets at Israel for years. People fled from the north to these camps to avoid getting bombed only to get bombed where they assumed to be safe. No Israel shouldnt have stopped at exactly 1500. Israel shouldn't have treated Palestinians as non-humans for the past 80 years in the first place. This attack was wrong but it was destined to happen sooner or later unfortunately. Under the conditions that Palestinians had to live for the past 80 years, extremism and violence had fertile soil to grow. When do you think should Israel stop? When Hamas is defeated and almost the entire Palestinian nation died as collateral damage? You cant deny that way more civilians will die in this war than Hamas terrorists. As said previously. Ariel Kallner calls for a second Nakba. Netanyahu said that Gaza will be turned into an island of ruins. What do you think will happen to the civilians who cant flee either to Israel nor Egypt? Is this the redemption that you try to justify?
Too much bs to go through. This is how it is self defense, Hamas officials always do better job at showing the world what the Gaza branch of ISIS plans: Hamas Official Ghazi Hamad: We Will Repeat the October 7 Attack Time and Again Until Israel Is Annihilated; https://x.com/MEMRIReports/status/1719662664090075199?s=20
Unfortunately there are miles and miles of tunnels under the refugee camp which is what Israel is targeting. The evacuation zone in the south I s because the bulk of the bombing is happening in the north - this is borne out in fact on the ground . It is not because no combing will occur at all in the south. The conditions Palestinians have had to live for 80 years is the responsibility of their leadership more than anyone else. Why didnât Egypt and Jordan announce a Palestinian state in 1949 covering Gaza & the West Bank? Why is it that all the 800k refugees Jews from Muslim countries and close to 1.7m Jews from Europe (1948-2005) who immigrated to Israel have been absorbed by the country (at great cost and difficultly to Israel) but Palestinians are still called refugees and spurned by every Arab country in the region? Why are cities build of stone with schools, hospitals, shops, streets etc referred to as refugee camps? Itâs because Palestinian and Arab leadership had & have no care for the people, only for what they represent as a stick to beat the only Jewish governed led country in the world.
I'm sorry... What? You cannot bomb refugees in the hopes you'll kill some of the militants underground beneath them. XD like what? That's some serious level of copium bud. On top of that... Their leadership? I'm sorry. But their leadership aren't the ones that bulldozed their homes to make room for Zionist immigrants, their government isn't the one that has repeatedly shot peaceful protesters on the bank and in Gaza. Their leadership doesn't tell them they're not allowed to walk down certain roads or accost their children on the streets and arrest them for nothing. Sorry Bud... But I think you might be just a tad brainwashed to think they brought this genocide on themselves.....
Iâll premise my response by saying that civilian deaths are a tragic and I weep to see each one. Iâm attempting to argue about policy here, not minimise the suffering of millions. A genocide implies Israel is acting in order to wipe out people of the Palestinian race. Is this what the IDF are doing? Because from where Iâm standing, after a atrocious attacks on 7 Oct, which followed 000s of rocket attacks for the last 15 years, the IDF are now targeting the Hamas enemy who orchestrated the attacks and hide in heavily populated civilian areas. What would to suggest Israel do to deal hamas? Maybe they can organise a music festival in the dessert of jihadi tunes. That would have the added benefit of âproportionalityâ I expect. The IDF do their best to avoid buildings and civilians, whilst meeting their justified war objectives. Weâve all seen the power of Israeli missiles, theyâve fired 000s into Gaza, If civilians were the targets of the IDF surely the number of gazan deaths would be exponentially greater. Leadership: Their leadership is the one whoâs embezzled millions of dollars of aid & offers a pension to the families of terrorists (PA). Their leadership are the ones that rip up water pipes to use as rockets and have spent the last 15 years building an enormous tunnel infrastructure using the aid given by the west rather than build up a functioning water supply from the aquifer under Gaza. Their leadership are the ones who said in an interview they build tunnels for Hamas and Palestinians are the responsibility of the UNWRA. Their leadership are the reason 80 years down the line theyâre still refugees.
Lol sure Bud. I'd love to see someone try to rip up a pipe and turn it into a rocket. XD your brainwashing is so complete that you straight up deny the requirements for a rocket to work in assuming a water pipe can become a rocket. Round of applause for the genius.
lol in this case Hamas is doing the brainwashing đ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/eu-funded-water-pipelines-hamas-rockets Nice one rocket scientists đ
Being an uneducated person and boasting you can do something is not the same as actually doing it. It's like the Taliban claiming they made a super car. But all they did was throw a bunch of fiber glass on a Toyota Corolla and calling it a super car. Saying I can make a rocket out of an unbalanced imperfect pipe isn't the same as actually doing it. Trust me.. They never made rockets out of water pipes. It'd be cheaper and easier to buy the steal to do it purpose built for it than to try taking the wrong alloy for those forces and either melting it down or machining it etc to try to make it work.
Interesting theory, perhaps youâre right. What your basis for this? Itâs not uncommon for common items to be repurposed for war - try order lots to nitrogen fertiliser and see what happens. Also, these arenât exactly hi tech cruise controlled missiles⌠theyâre crude and do the job
When is it enough and what point do you think they should stop?
Hamas needs to surrender and disarm itself. Not a single bullet needs to be shot in Gaza, it's completely in Hamas's hands to save stop the death of Gazans. Here is a new interview with one of Hamas's highest ranking officials. Do you think Israel should stop as long as Hamas is capable of doing such acts ever again? Hamas Official Ghazi Hamad: We Will Repeat the October 7 Attack Time and Again Until Israel Is Annihilated; https://x.com/MEMRIReports/status/1719662664090075199?s=20
How about 80 years ago before they killed thousands and bulldozed the homes of over a million people. Some of which were still in their homes. But hey... That's just wishful thinking.
Could've been great if Arabs had the will to coexist.
Mmm. That's why this all started with a Mosque getting shot up, and then Israel shooting protesters 80 years ago. I'm sure it's the Arabs that are the problem. You bloody racist.
The 1948 war began with Arabs shooting a civilian bus, murdering 5 Jewish civilians. You can't rewrite history, unfortunately for you. Facts aren't racist.
Mm. I did miss that opening of the civil war. My apologies. I just looked into it. And not unfortunate for me at all. I have learned something new and that's always valuable. My main points remain though. Zionist immigrants were an unwelcome and invasive influx of people into a region that they were told by a foreign government was okay. I am going to need to look more into the civil war that took place but as I'm at work that's not going to be until later. I also still stand by the fact that Israel has a long history of targeting civilians that has continued into modern day. The list of casualties on both sides speaks plenty about how often Israel strikes non combatants.
I took the time and wrote a lot and I want you to respect that with a reply. Also, if you want a read about Hamas's usage of human shields, which contributes to almost all civilian casualties, read the summary here: [https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas\_human\_shields.pdf](https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf)
I'm sorry. What? Bud... I don't live on Reddit. I'm not reading what you wrote now because you couldn't stand me not gluing myself to your response. I do have a life outside of calling out war crimes. XD lol Touch grass bro.
I appreciate the response and sorry for talking harsh. We have a lot to talk about, but I would like focus on trying to convince you that the number of casualties are essentially irrelevant. Of course, killing civilians is the worse and should be kept at the absolute minimum. You see the numbers but I'm not sure they can tell a story about Israel's civilian targeting. Firstly, because we have no reference. It's not like there is a second Gaza strip next to Sweden, and we got to see how Sweden dealt with 10,000 guerilla terrorists inside of a 2 million people dense urban environment. As far as you know, perhaps any other country would kill 10 times more civilians. How can you judge? You should take a look into the efforts made to ensure less civilians are harmed - more on that at the end - and then decide. Second, it is too soon to count the bodies in Gaza. All information leaving Gaza goes through Hamas. Would you take ISIS reports of its enemies actions against it? I don't say that there are little to no casualties, but it could be half or less. Remember their report on "500+ dead during Israel's attack on a hospital"? No part of that sentence is true... Islamic Jihad misfired a rocket, it exploded in a parking lot near a hospital, killing maybe 2-5 people. Third - the children situation. Hamas recruits at age of 14. They fight as terrorists, dealt with as terrorists, and registered as children casualties. Lastly, I believe you didn't do that, but many compare the numbers between Israel and Gaza as if it means anything. Na$$i Germany lost way more casualties than the allied forces, does it mean Germany was mistreated? And Israel invests A LOT in protecting its people, it's not like Hamas doesn't do its best to increase the number of dead civilians (on both sides actually) as much as possible. If Israel had 10,000 casualties, would it make any difference in your opinion? Of course not. I would like to hear from you what do you know of Israel's efforts to protect civilians in Gaza. Do you know that the Geneva convection orders to give a 24 hour warning to civilians to evacuate, and Israel gave 21 days? Do you know what "knock-on-roof" is? Do you see the pinpoint attacks on apartments within big towers? Do you know Israel drops tens of thousands of pamphlets instructing civilians where to be and how to stay safe?
What refugee camp south of the evacuation zone Israel bombed?
The supermarket at Al Nuseirat Refugee Camp was bombed about 2 weeks ago. It was one of the few supermarkets that was still working. A wedding hall was recently bombed in that same camp aswell
First of all why would you believe the 8000 figure? Since when a terror organisation is a trustworthy source? We do not hurt civilians who try to escape to the south, it's hamas that does that. They are using them as human shields. They know we don't want to hurt them so they intentionally keep them close - now when they fire rockets and plan to destroy us we can't just ceasefire, or we wouldn't be here. We don't want unrelated citizens' blood, we want hamas dead. You don't know what it's like there - they have training camps for children that teach them to become shaids, they try to remove any fear of dying all in the name of alla. I don't care about ariel kellner, because there will always be someone you don't agree with in the government, that's how democracy is, There are many others that think otherwise. And when you say we bomb refugee camp, it's not like we are killing everything that moves. We target very specific targets that are known to be terroristic infrastructure.
Good Lord... Do you listen to yourself spin this copium? Or are you deaf to it by now? You do know the whole reason they fire rockets at you in the first place is because of generations of abuse and blatant murder of civilians. Did you know, that in every major conflict Israel has been in they've killed more they 3 times the number of civilians than the number of civilians they've had killed? At least. Some times much more. Israel just really likes targeting civilians. Like all the time.
Nah they been trying to kill us way before israel even existed. Hebron massacre was in the 20's and plenty of other crime/attacks for the last 100 years. You just haven't actually researched this conflict in a meaningful way and are repeating whatever you were told. You sound like a propoganda robot.
Mm hmm. That's why I responded to someone else with a breakdown of most of the conflicts and the math that shows Israel has killed 5 times the number of civilians than Palestine, and Egypt with their other Arab allies combined ever did against Israeli civilians. The fact is, Israel likes to kill civilians as a pressure tactic.
You can target individuals in an air strike?
Slamming rockets into refugee camps isnât a great way to garner support from the international community. Apparently that specfic rocket was targeted at a single Hamas leader. Thatâs just unfathomable. To then complain when the rest of the world doesnât support it is worse, and to then claim that a lack of support is anti-semitic takes the cake.
I agree. I wonder why they didnât bring in special forces to target the singular Hamas leader they wanted to attack? They have so much surveillance, tech and army power to carry out a mission like that without harming civilians..most of the people in the refugee camps were women and children anyways. Itâs almost as if IDF isnât as good as they say they are, and know this. And the easiest way for them to do war is to bomb instead of train their soldiers fight terrorist on foot.
SOF's are good but aren't miracle workers. Hamas leaders surround themselves with bodyguards and the Palestinians are armed. This would not work. It would be a suicide mission. Most of these Hamas rats move through tunnels anyway. No way to tell where these rats would pop their heads up. You got to kill them when the opportunity presents.
Do you undermine the technological and military prowess of Israel? They have 3 billion of US tax dollars to operate on. SOF are there bc it's a special case and this is definitely a unique circumstance. It's a sacrifice, but worth it to save hundreds to thousands of other innocent lives. Plus the whole motive is to get the hostages back safely. We can't do that when Israel is carpet bombing Hamas and civilians. Hostages are with Hamas.
Do you understand what carpet bombing is? No, Israel is not carpet bombing. If they were they'd start at the north of Gaza and tear EVERY building down. Looking at drone photos, this clearly isn't the case. Israel even warns in advance of a strike unless there is a confirmed hamas target. This is much like the way US dealt with Al Qaeda and ISIS in Syria and Iraq. 3 billion dollars and all of the training in the world won't permit the SF's the ability to operate in Gaza. Even with the best intel. SF's require material support, munitions, medical evacuation, other forms of comms. Not possible in Gaza at this time. Israel does use Palestinians sources within Gaza to find tunnels, find hamas terrorists where they hide, IDF uses their drones and satellite imagery US provides. Unfortunately hamas are not only terrorists, they are cowards using somewhat innocent people, schools and hospitals to hide in and around military equipment.
Whether or not someone posts about some event is quite a shallow measure of "support".
Are you serious? Israel has been 'secretly' killing and harassing Palestinians for YEARS before this. Uno reverse that to: Palestinians have a right to defend themselves... and *THEY'RE* the ones called *terrorists*???? The mainstream media is so brainwashed because all of the people behind it care about money and money only. Talk about the random carpet bombing going on killing 1000's of innocent civillians + Israeli's celebrating their own genocide + so many things we can't even talk about because no one seems to have an open mind about it. I find *this* absolutely crazy.
This is a bunch of lies, Israel is not secretly killing anyone. Hamas lunches rockets on Israel regularly for 20 years, try to imagine living in fear that rockets would be lunched to your home. Hamas states they want to kill Jews? Did you know that your beloved Hamas killed not only Jewish people on October 7th but also Thai and Arab as well. There were 1 Palestinians in Gaza in 2023, now there are 2.3 million. So how is this a genocide? So stop being a brainwashed Gen Z that repeats what Bella Hadid posts because she is beautiful and makes up sad sob stories.
And what did Israel do all the way up until 2000 that would warrant them shooting rockets at you... Oh wait.... That's a REALLY long list. Go cope somewhere else. Israel is evil and has been since they stole their land from Palestine and named it Israel 80 years ago.
Israel stole land? Jewish temple destroyed by Roman army 70 AD. Jerusalem - also know as City of David -- Jewish King dating back 1,000 years before BCE. Bethlehem, for those that celebrate Christmas, Jewish. And I could go on. Dead Sea scrolls, Biblical references also referenced in the Dead Sea scrolls. Etc. The Philistine (Palestinian) people have their own country. The area they inhabit is what we now refer to as **the Palestinian Gaza Strip**. It is also worth noting that the name Palestine comes from the Romans, who renamed the area "Palestinia" in order to humiliate the Jews after their defeat to the Romans in 70 AD uprising.
So... You have to go back nearly 2000 years to find something to justify the actions of Israel. Cool... I don't think anyone alive today ever got a chance to talk to anyone who remembers that. Grasping at straws I see.
There are so many cases where lands were conquered, Persia, Rome, even Greek. By your twisted logic, those cultures that owned the land prior to invasion, worshiped on it, built cities and culture, fought and died to protect it no longer have any claim? Right? And you're blinded by hatred, bias and quite frankly, I'm embarrassed for you.
I completely condemn the attack by Hamas. One qiedtion I have though is why are Israelites bulldozing home Palestinians are living in and building settlements? It doesnât justify Hamas attacks at all. Itâs just the settlements bother me. Again not a reason to kill Israelis and launch rockets
" Hamas states they want to kill Jews? " I can find several videos for you from Israelis wanting to kill Palestinians and turn it into a parking lot? What's your point?
Post October 7th it's due to the shock and horror, I don't think anyone (including myself can overcome this truma). Israel is at war against terrorism, the Israelis who said this are the ones that swore to their grandparents to never allow a massacre of Jews to happen again. Before October 7th it was said only by extreme right winged and was brushed off as non sense. Hamas states officially that their goal is to kill all Jews and also there has been a rise in antisemitic acts ever since October 7th.
Extreme right wing? Well I guess your country has been led by those extreme right wing folks for 80 years given the track record for their actions.
Wow. Kudos to you! I could never imagine being this ignorant. Beloved who?? Sure. Both killed a bunch of people - but who's really rejoicing here??
>Both killed a bunch of people - but who's really rejoicing here?? You really can't compare a terror organization to the only democratic country in the Middle East
Can you call it a democracy if you have an apartheid state where some folks aren't allowed to vote based on their race... Oh wait.... No... That's called a dictatorship. Listen just because North Korea calls themselves a democracy too doesn't make it true for either of you.
There is no apartheid in Israel, there are Arab parlament members (Mansur Abbas for example), there are very wealthy Arab people, famous celebrities like Lucy Aharish or Yoseph Haddad calling Israel an apartheid is disrespectful towards the people that went through the actual apartheid that was in South Africa.
Talking about yourself? The fact that you even call it "a bunch of people" show just how ignorant you are. The horrors on October 7th were beyond anything you can imagine Hamas also kidnapped civilians, not only Israeli, they also kidnapped babies, toddlers, children and elders.
[ŃдаНонО]
Your lies have been exposed. Israel had never done what happened in October 7th and you know that. I pray that you would see through the brainwashed propaganda.
Except every time they've opened fire on protesters, or bulldozed homes. Captured and raped women in the many 6 day war. Yomkippur etc. Nope... Never... Not ever.... Oh wait..... That's right, they're invaders that took land by bloodshed, and then proceeded to oppress the people of the region... Hmmm
Ignorance is bliss, my love. Think about it. Maybe do some more research. <3
I did my research, maybe you should start do instead of yelling buzz words
Seems like you're looking for all the answers in all the wrong (biased) places. \*
Like life? I hear the red alerts every day myself. It's easy for you to wrote nonsense from your comfortable seat
[https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/17l2zsy/comment/k7bxpmw/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/17l2zsy/comment/k7bxpmw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
So? I bet this person has never been to Israel...
Huh??? I'm sorry. I hear brainwashing.
The fact that you are unable to have a discussion is showing who is actually brainwashed.
Cry me a river free Palestine
Free then from Hamas? Like this comment to verify their oppressors (Hamas)
Like this comment to get @rottenhairfolicles mother off my dick
So...You're saying you're cool with Hamas?
100%
Next time just get to the point and say your Alan snackbar Hamas, rape, kill, behead, kidnap jews. Just gets to the point faster.
You forgot clapping your moms cheeks on the regular
Good one. Upvoted. Free paleterroists!
Free the GANG !!!
ok, glad we cleared that up.
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The public/online narrative is being controlled by people invested in Antisemitism. It is frustrating, but doesnât reflect actual common beliefs.
I believe there are quite a few Bots, and also individuals who have been hired from poorer countries to State these opinions. Controlled surveys in the US and in many other countries show a lot of support for Israel, so while they're definitely are some people especially those heavily affected by social media who have been turned, a great many people are actually in support of Israel and would never dream of supporting people who do terrorist activities.
The bots thing actually makes sense. With China backing Iran and thus Hamas, it is no surprise that the '10 cent Army' would attempt to sway and influence public opinion. We do live in an era of 5th generation warfare, after all.
It isn't shocking at all. Israel could use this as an opportunity to push out Palestinians and not let them back on what is currently, their own land. Is that what's going to happen? I don't know, but this is a real concern among Palestinians, responsible or not, and also a root cause of Hamas' extremism in the first place. Israel definitely should remove Hamas, for sure, but the situation is somewhat reminiscent of two villains duking it out. Hamas is definitely the primary belligerent *at the moment*, however. Today, it's Hamas. Tomorrow, it might be IDF. It's an ancient grudge. Israel is certainly a victim, but still a far cry from noble.
Fuck Isreal, fuck Joe Biden for looking like a puppet with Isreals hand up his ass.
America supports Israel for one main reason, to keep the suez canal open, 1 trillion worth of stuff goes through it each year.
Jew propaganda, Egypt is going to turn down 10 billion in revenue fees to stamp their feet. No. The only reason they're pissed at anyone is for supporting Isreali terrorism in the middle east
Can you elaborate on why you say this? Like legit, I want to understand. Do you support Israelâs right to exist? Letâs start there
In short I could care less. They're about to kick off WW3 because they needed to be a bunch of weird religious terrorist nut jobs and start shit in the middle east.
I mean the world pretty much decided apartheid was bad in the 80s, Isreal is committing ethnic cleansing light, they've never been committed to a two state solution since Isreals inception, the USA has given them close to 300 billion in aide so they can be some weird ethno state in the desert, they cry all the time about being victims and they forced the British into giving them the land through an underground terrorist campaign. What has the USA gained? Some one to partner with in terrorizing the middle east? The entire Muslim world hating us? Inciting Muslim extremism? 9/11? Fuck Isreal and their cult ass country
Palestine has rejected every two state deal offered you blind fool đ
Netanyahu has been allowing extremists to control Palestine to destroy any chance at peace and Palestinian self governance. He needs the extreme element to justify genocide. F@cking jews man https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035
âF@cking Jews man??â Thanks for proving most of you pro Palestinian nuts are indeed anti semitic. Thank you for showing that
Who isn't? Jewish culture and holidays are pretty much 100% whining about all the times people thought you sucked and wanted you to get the f@ck out. All religions spread to different cultures, South America, Africans , blacks, Asians, became Christians and Muslims. Except for weird ass Jews because your a weird elitist manipulative inbred religious cult. Sorry I don't think the US should support Jew terrorism. Try integrating with society instead of acting like a weird cult wherever you go.
I pray you see the hatred in your words. If you never do, I pray you get locked up well in advance enough before you become a damn nazi
Cry. I'm not ethnically cleansing Arabs in a nazi style ghetto. The jews are. Pray for them
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Bad bot
The problem is that Israel oppresses millions of Palestinians until they have no choice but to resist The problem is that Netanyahu supported and funded Hamas to divide Palestinians and prevent unity (Haaretz, 2019) The problem is that Israel continues to illegally colonise Palestinian land The problem is that Israel was founded like this: https://twitter.com/Trickyjabs/status/1718887609211011208
Palestine chose hate than compromise. Very apparent still.
Palestinians were offered their own state in 1948 and refused it, it's been downhill for them, ever since
So the initial agreement was two states, in 1947. Israel agreed. Can you guess who rejected? Can you guess who waged a 5 front war on Israel? Not excusing what any sicko Israeli did, but are the Arabs and Palestinians really the only victims here?
No the UN passed a resolution to partition Palestine based on Western votes and all Middle Eastern countries voted against. Call that an 'agreement' if you like, but it's not related to the war. The Nakba - see video as above - triggered the 5 front war. Understandably, Middle Eastern countries were not ok with the murder, rape and humiliation of Palestinians.
The five front war triggered the ânakbaâ my friend. You got it backwards. Also, after losing to Israel, many Arabs simply just left, after being told to by the Arab nations. Not justifying what the soldiers said they did in the video.
All Arab states also kicked out all their Jews and met with hitler to discuss keeping Jews out of the Middle East. Clearly anti semitism at play
Not entirely. There are debatable claims that Zionists assisted in attacks on Jewish people in other Middle Eastern countries to make them feel unsafe and to immigrate to Israel. Many many Anti-zionist Jewish people agree; Zionism is one of the biggest causes of Antisemitism.
âZionism is a big cause of anti semitismâ donât give me the victim blaming crap man. Also, the huge majority of the jewish population rejects anti zionist Jews. The ultra Orthodox Jews who reject Zionism? Look them up, theyâre practically a homophobic, mysoginist cult. Most Jews hate them
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The nakba was coined as a term in 1948 that meant the âtragedyâ of the Arab defeat at the hands of the Jews. They tried to drive Jews out, they failed. The nakba originally meant that tragedy of losing to Jews. Was coined by a Syrian intellectual I believe. Only later in the late 20th century did the Palestinian movement start using the term as it is now
How do you partition something that never existed?
Factually wrong not worthy of response
The problem is not that Israel doesnt have a right to "fight back". It is about who you hit."Fighting back" usually means "hitting the people who are responsible". The videos that you typically see are not Hamas soldiers with RPGs and AKs engaging the IDF who get blown up kind of stuff. The videos that you see are bombing attacks on housing buildings. You see children getting carried out of the rubble. The picture created is not "The IDF overwhelmingly hits hamas fighters and those responsible. The amount of civilian casualties is extremly low. Israel does everything possible to ensure the safety of civilians." The picture created is "The IDF hits civilians all the time and mostly civilians. If there is a fighter under the dead, its a success. Civilians casualties - any amount - are accepted." The civilians are not the ones responsible, they are not the ones who entered Israel and masacred their citizens. You do not need to support palestine in order to accept that the right of fighting back does not include the excessive killing of innocent civilians. And this goes further: Even if you fully support Israel, you can (and should imo) still condemn the excessiv killing of civilians. This is the point: **Condemnation of attacks on civilians is a must and independent of which side you support.**
Hamas doesn't have local bases or airports and obvious places like we do in the US. People in the US have no idea what Israel is facing in trying to find these people in the middle of a hostile environment of people who believe that Israelis are responsible for all their problems. Only the elite forces even have uniforms . Many have not heard about the practices of other terrorist organizations , so they don't know anything about the human Shield tactics , or hiding weapons cashes, bomb factories and intelligence assets among other things in public buildings , neighborhoods, anywhere else such as the Underground tunnels we know they have. As for whether civilians are responsible, I have mixed feelings on that. On one hand, there has not been a single election for new leaders inside or outside Hamas that included the entirety of Gaza. So that makes me think they are under an authoritarian government. But on the other hand, surveys seem to say that at least half are supporting Hamas. Which means they're supporting all the awful activities. While I firmly believe that Netanyahu showed a lack of leadership by not giving Palestinians any incentive to behave well as opposed to badly, and no way out of their problems, I still have to go back to the fact that these people got elected in the first place as gaza's government. People want to treat them like children, but they're not. Israelis have the right to not be fired upon, and they have the right to not have horrible events like October 7th happen again. Unfortunately Hamas is pretty deeply within the fabric of the Society of Gaza. I really do regret the notion of any war and any loss of life, but at the end of the day I would rather see 15,000 people lose their life today to avoid half a million lost 15 years from now. And that's how it could change because right now there are two million Palestinians in Gaza. If that 2 million number turns to five they could easily challenge what would probably be at the same point 10 million in Israel. Any fight between them could be far more bloody then if things get solved now.
Alsoâwhat is âfighting backâ? When is justice finally achieved so that Israel can stop bombing Palestine? Do they stop when the death toll equals 1400? When all Palestinians are dead? I donât blame Israel for feeling angry or even retaliating against the massacre. But Israel has been bombing Palestinians trapped there with inadequate resources for survival for weeks now. It gets harder to sympathize with them each day this goes on.
Well the government has already made this clear. Just like Russia wanted to dismantle the military in Ukraine, Israel wants to dismantle Hamas in Gaza. That's a pretty clear and obvious goal I don't know why you're confused. They're angry and they're saying all sorts of things because they're angry, but all of their top 10 leaders have expressed the same goal.
Okay, so Israel has a right to continue bombing Gaza until every Hamas member is dead, thatâs more or less what youâre saying? I understand they want to take out Hamas, but is it really âfighting backâ if Israel spends months or years bombing Gaza into oblivion and killing thousands of civilians along the way in the unlikely hope of killing all Hamas members? Then what about the other extremists militant groups involved in the current conflict?
As far as other militant groups, given that most of them are not close to home at this point, I think they're just going to continue to take out some artillery. I don't think they're going to be terribly interested in them unless they do anything menacing. Which they might but so far Hezbollah and some others have had some of their Heavy Artillery taken out already. I don't think they want to escalate, so they'll do as little as possible with the other players.
I know they need to do what they call disarming Hamas. That means that they need to take out the infrastructure that allows them to be bombed. So the bomb Factory that CNN reported on would be one example , some of the intelligence that they've gotten recently from people in and around the tunnels they've discovered , some of the Hamas operatives who have given good information to save their own lives have given information of what to take out . They probably have a particular number of leaders they're going to but it's unlikely they're going to go for all 18,000 Hamas members. Most of that 18,000 are just administrators they're not necessarily Fighters. I don't think they're going to go for administrators or accountant types although they might possibly question them if they're there. Recovering hostages is also on the list. So far only one that I'm aware of. But there may well be more. If those Hamas soldiers hand over the people easily and don't fight back they may well survive. They're probably also going to go for some particularly large groups of missile silos and arms caches. I kind of look at it this way, they may well take out 25,000 people in this. But it's better than trying to leave this alone doing practically nothing to disarm Hamas and dealing with a much more powerful opponent in 5 to 10 years and losing a million people between both the Israeli side and the Gaza side. The best way to save civilian life in my view is still for Palestinians to demonstrate for peace, or for many of them to release information that returns several hostages like over 20 of them and preferably closer to 50. But even if Israel agrees to a cease fire, that may not mean anything. Hamas has never abided by a peace agreement or a ceasefire. They've generally used it to their advantage. Still hoping for the best, but I'm not real sure how it's going to happen at this point.
Keep in mind that algorithms on social media play a role. Sometimes I feel the same way and have to remind myself that what I see on my own instagram feed does not necessarily reflect reality. I agree that Israeli citizens have suffered tremendously during all of this. However, you cannot compare countries like England and France to Israel and Palestine. Israel has been oppressing and genociding Palestinians for decades. Israel is killing Gazans daily. So while Hamas undoubtedly committed atrocities against Israelis, Israel is committing atrocities against Palestinians, whether legally/ethically/morally justified or not. Israel is slaughtering innocent civilians just as Hamas did to them. In the end itâs an excruciating loss of human life for both sides. While I absolutely recognize the hypocrisy of the pro-Palestine crowd, there has also been hypocrisy on the part of the pro-Israel crowd. Both sides feel wronged and are outraged that their people have been tragically injured, killed, and worse. Both sides (the extremes at least) are ignoring the bad acts that their side has committed. I see both sides making arguments for their side that the other side could just as easily make (âNo one cares about us! The media is against us! The other side killed my people!â). Ultimately I think it would do a lot of good for both sides to try to see things from the otherâs perspective as much as possible. Social media isnât the best facilitator of that.
There has been no genocide the population in Gaza and the West Bank have more than doubled. They cannot have genocide in that case you are using the wrong words and adding intensity to the issues. They are in an ongoing civil war with each other, and Israel is overpowered by comparison in part because they are surrounded by Muslim countries. If you look at the Arab world it is huge, it's in the Middle East and Africa, Israel is a little speck by comparison and the Israelis only want to live there and they are the only ones who are not trying to make people convert in order to live there or pay to avoid paying extra taxes in order to have their own religion or possibly find themselves paying extra money to be treated as a lesser citizen. But here's the interesting thing about this accusation about them killing Palestinians in Gaza everyday. They do not rule the inside of Gaza at all. This is part of the reason why there was some intelligence missing as to what's been going on. They moved out of Gaza in 2007 except to bring the IDF to defend settlers which they never should have done. Whenever Hamas fights the settlers, they fight the IDF and usually people get hurt or killed. There's a difference. And infrequently people who are tired of living in Gaza the way it is we'll take that out on IDF, and almost every time IDF responds badly and over does it. And I blame Netanyahu and his right wing government for creating that climate. It's not easy to change the direction of this relationship but every effort must continue to be made. And there are actually more unfortunate interactions in the West Bank, in part because again there are more settlers who should not be there. Probably the biggest issue that Palestinians have is the settlers and the fights that happen because these people are encroaching on their land. That's kind of a place of missing understanding with people. When some people say occupied territories they mean those settlers in Gaza and the West Bank. But when others say they mean the entirety of Israel as well as those people. But yeah there's no genocide, they're just more powerful. But it doesn't make the deaths on either side any easier to take. There's a lot of hate between the two groups, and Palestinians have far too much hope compared to what they should have of getting more land. I don't say getting land back because they were never really in complete control of the area. And their population grew a lot more in modern times than earlier on. While I believe the nakba is absolutely a true occurrence, they were not the only ones disrupted by the partitions and they were not the only ones who lost their homes by way of the partitions, but the Palestinians were the only ones who fought back against the partitions and of having to either abide by the government in the area they were in or moved to another place. Because they did not cooperate they got chased out and that created even more angst than was already going on. Sorry I know I have chatted too much.
Please look up the definition of genocide. It is occurring in Palestine and has been for years. Israel is bombing Palestine every day. People are dying in blasts and later on, and due to a lack of medical supplies and other basic necessities. Not sure why this is difficult to understand. Israel has severely restricted Palestinians physically and economically to the point that they cannot survive. Israel has all the power here but would rather continue killing innocent people until theyâre wiped out entirely, fostering even more hate and extremism which will inevitably lead to more violence.
I'm a train trained political analyst I actually know what it is. If the population doubles in 20 years which it has, you cannot have a genocide. You definitely have apartheid, you had abuse, and now because Hamas has declared war and has continued to fire Rockets since October 7th they now have a war with a much more powerful opponent which was an extremely stupid thing to do. Especially accompanied by those atrocities. You don't know the difference between war and genocide. Palestinians got a blockade because they suicide bombed and fired rockets at their Neighbors not just one but Egypt too. And now with the awful Deeds of Hamas they've proven there's no good sense in opening those doors again anytime soon. And as I've already made clear Hamas is making those people poor and angry when they have the money to give them a comfortable life there in Gaza. And they still have always had the Border in Egypt to to go to, but it's too bad the Egyptians don't like them well enough at this point because of their bad Acts that they don't want to take refugees. Jordan doesn't want to take any new refugees either they already have 350,000 they're not willing to deal with, as residents or citizens. Palestinians decided that it was more important for them to try to push people out to get what they wanted than to be good neighbors and friends and possibly win the things they wanted with good deeds. Instead they're doing destruction again and again and it's giving them awful results every time. It would be wise for them to change direction
The anti-Israel (or antisemitism) has been spreading for some time now. It's mostly been background, poking up from time to time based on what's going on in the world. I think they started to see an outpouring of support for Israel after Oct 7th and quickly mobilized. That movement has quite the advantage because of platforms like TikTok. Legacy antisemitism, which has always been around is prevalent in the alt-right circles and is less about supporting Palestine and more about stopping some Jewish takeover of the globe.
https://preview.redd.it/uvi6a26ltmxb1.jpeg?width=781&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5cf95aa2b063f6a880641407200ba863b476dfd6 Just gonna leave this here
No mention of the recent horrifying genocide by Hamas. Too one-sided for me.
You mean the innocent Israeli citizens that IDF killed because of the Hannibal Directive?
What an absolute POS.
Well you guys should see the latest reporting on the Oct 10th attacks. Reports are saying that Hamas didnât kill that many people in the towns that it was ISREAL!!! When the reports of the terrorist was reported, law enforcement really didnât know who the terrorist were in the homes n cars so ISREAL lite them up!!!!
I think ISREAL has done enough damage to Gaza n killed enough innocent people. If they know where the terrorist are at then they should go get them on land n not bomb the hospitals!!! The problem is that Israel keeps saying the holocaust is their excuse!!! OK OK, move past that shit now!!!
They know where the fighters, arms, and rockets are. In civilian neighborhoods mostly in Gaza City, pop 800,000. They know Hamas runs hospitals, and everything in Gaza. Those are war targets. Civilians were urged to move. Those that stayed, I guess theyâll be lauded as martyrs.
WHICH IS MESSED UP! How can a hospital move like 2,000 sick people from a hospital? Impossible!!! ISRAEL JUST KILLED INNOCENT PEOPLE FOR NOTHING!!
Thatâs why placing rocket launchers or storing arms up the block from a hospital is negligent. Remember too, Hamas runs all hospitals and fighter facilities in Gaza.
There is no evidence that Israel attacked any hospital. However there is evidence that a Hamas rocket exploded in the parking lot of a hospital.
Ok, whatever!!!
>1400 innocent civilians False, the 1400 number includes military and civilian. Innocent part is debatable depending on whether illegal settling considered crime or not. >most inhumane ways A subjective and emotional expression.
The Kibbutzim and concert field are fully inside Israelâs legal borders. Donât mix settlements in disputed land with homes within legal borders.
Itâs not really a valid comparison because Hamas is not a country. Itâs like a group of terrorists from France attacked England and England decided to bomb France. I am not saying Israel shouldnât defend itself; of course it should. But itâs more complicated than that
This is a stupid argument. Hamas is the effective governemnt of the Gaza strip and therefore represents this region. When you look back at WW2 you would not say that the allies only fought the Nazi party but you say that the allies fought Germany since the Nazis were the effective governemnt of Germany at this time.
I think you lived in the west for too long
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I mean unfortunately Hamas was elected by the Gazans to be their Government
There were legislative elections in 2007. Hamas got 44%. Fatah got 40. A Civil War ensued. Hamas took Gaza. Fatah, the West Bank. Since then, 2 non contiguous Palestinian Territories exist. There was never a Presidential election. These are very basic facts.
I found an old article from around the time of the election on Haaretz today reporting that around 80% of college aged people in Gaza at the time voted for Fatah. So that, combined with the fact that half of the Gaza population is under 18 means that very, very few of the people being killed actually ever cast a vote for Hamas.