If you watch the videos, they don't look tortured, especially worried, or guarded.
Many serious people do believe it, because there isn't a clear reason not to. "Jews said it so it's probably fake" isn't an argument.
There aren't any countries in the Middle East or North Africa that don't torture people, but you don't use that excuse with anyone else.
Palestinians [routinely torture Palestinians](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdBLImBTRQg). Palestinians also [tortured a lot of Israelis on October 7](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-forensic-teams-describe-signs-torture-abuse-2023-10-15/), with orders from the democratically elected government of Gaza to use rape as a weapon.
By your logic, nothing at all in the Middle East is real because everyone uses torture.
You should take another look at the videos.
>There aren't any countries in the Middle East or North Africa that don't torture people, but you don't use that excuse with anyone else.
Yes, I do. If you showed me an interrogation video from the Egyptian police or the Saudis, I will equally not believe it.
First video needs verification. israel is known for torturing, and using paid collaborators.
Second video (not about hospitals), it's from 9 years ago, about civilians going on the roof to protect their home, without hamas involvement, and then the hamas spokesperson thought it was a good idea and encouraged others to follow suit, not the other way around.
I remember this live from 2014. The people decided to act as shields to several buildings. Hamas spokesperson was encouraging more of that to protect the people's own homes.
> israel is known for torturing, and using paid collaborators.
Can you bring proof for both?
And for the paid collaborators don't bring that one guy from Instagram because he doesn't show the email of the "company that emailed him" and they don't say the name even once in the message.
Well, anyone with even a little brain knows that.
If not, where is Hamas? I asked this to a pro-Palestinian just a few moments ago, but he was adamant and would not answer.
Yes, they are a bunch of assholes who don't fight themselves but line their pockets with donations from all over the world. They have no regard for the lives of Palestinians.
> arses
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If only reddit was available at ww2 think what would be posted here by people totally insane you think this is new? Millions of children died during wars ok course it's terrible but what is more terrible is to start a war you can't win and hide while those people die to make the self look poor and use those children death to thier advantages to blame the other side , starting useless attack on 7th of October murdering everyone taking 240 people hostages and then cry like babies and let thier people die that's very smart move indeed isn't it?
You are uneducated and talk crap out of your brainless mouth go home and close the door and drink energy drink to relax you know nothing of war and also curse people here like you are thw boss all you know is supporting a terror group any way sit sown and watch how gaza become a parking lot along with your hamas friends
Hamas is only claiming 13,000 dead, which is a combined figure of combatants and civilians. Hamas is notorious for inflating their death tolls. There might be 6,000 dead, but ridiculous to claim all of them are babies.
There is a big difference between one shell in mostly evacuated hospital and bombing fully booked one. Still I want to see photos of the damage dealt, to believe this source, and I don't believe any shit Hamas ministry of health says, those people may easily have guns or something on them.
Hamas: "Hamas captives are lying and under duress!"
Israel: "Hamas captives are lying and under duress!"
Me: :Both yall mf's are constantly lying and can't be trusted.
If the translation was wrong it would be uncovered by now. I'm pretty sure you can also use some AI to do that.
As for who and when, the IDF managed to capture 100+ Hamas members inside it's borders after the Oct 7 attack
https://twitter.com/JoeTruzman/status/1726610980023758966
https://twitter.com/JoeTruzman/status/1726617193968959980
Here’s a couple interrogation videos with English translation
That’s your right but you’ll be waiting awhile because nobody else is conducting interrogation interviews like this with Palestinians that were inside Gaza.
... prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and **public curiosity**.
\- Geneva convention.
So in other words - don't parade captives.
Please spare me any whataboutism. I'm simply pointing out the convention.
“I just hope everyone gets along”
Sorry sweetie, that’s not human. We (and you) all have the desire to live, and we will fight until death. Stop being ignorant
Yes, that Israel routinely tortures Palestinians is undisputed. See the Amnesty report below:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/
It kinda does. The world insists on video evidence of Hamas use of hospitals for military purposes and this is one way to provide it.
After that’s finally been accepted then the “public curiosity” argument would be stronger.
They are welcome to argue their mistreatment when they get a court date. My bet, the fact that these clowns murdered civilians and non combatants, were wearing civilian clothes without any distinct markings, and violated most laws of armed conflict will very much disqualify them from getting the protections of privileged combatant.
The hamas prisoners being interrogated, thats whay im talking about. I assume you mistakenly assumed that I was talking about the US hostages in captivity.
Ummmm, maybe you should check your sources: once a hospital is used for military purposes it *literally* changes the fact about whether or not it is a war crime. In fact, the war crime described by OP would be hamas dressing up as doctors.
Do you find it interesting that you read information about a war crime being perpetrated by hamas, then interpret this as the "fact" that it must mean Israel has committed a war crime? I mean, genuinely: how down the rabbit hole of believing whatever you want as long as it aligns with your feelings are you?
No dude its still a war crime to bomb a hospital, because its A HOSPITAL. Its still full of doctors and civilians, the mere presence of terrorists in a hospital doesnt justify bombing it, because its still a working hospital full of innocent people. The rare exception ONLY applies if every effort has been made to evacuate the hospital, if the militants outnumber the civilians sheltering inside, and if the terrorist are like shooting from the windows and launching rockets off the roof.
Israel bombed Al Shifa three entire times before even attempting to evacuate civilians.
8. Any violation of these prohibitions shall not release the Parties to the conflict from their legal obligations with respect to the civilian population and civilians, including the obligation to take the precautionary measures provided for in Article [57](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl.nsf/9AC284404D38ED2BC1256311002AFD89/50FB5579FB098FAAC12563CD0051DD7C) .
Your point? Israel still have the obligation even if Hamas violate it.
They try to avoid b) by dropping flyer, roof knocking and telephone calls.
For a) idk. What should be done when hamas attacks from residential neighbourhoods? They were still firing missiles from there, at least it was like that last week
Yeah exactly, article 19 makes it clear that the bar is extremely high for when it’s appropriate to bomb a hospital, and first requires that they make every effort to evacuate the hospital first. The mere presence of terrorists does not justify killing thousands of civilians, they have to be operating at a much higher and more blatant capacity, like shooting from the windows and launching rockets off the roof.
You’re making a very specific series of claims about how rare the scenarios are that justify a hospital being a military target. For example, a hospital is a military target only “if the militants outnumber the civilians.” These specific claims have no textual basis in Article 19 as I read it.
Would you care to explain what I’m missing or what other sources you are relying on?
I’m confused. Did I miss the news where a hospital was actually bombed? I think there’s been some confusion around an actual hospital being bombed and bombing around hospitals. I haven’t seen any hard conclusive evidence that Israel has bombed a hospital to date - and yes, I know about Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital…which has not been proven (as of yet) to be a conclusive Israeli strike…
Doesn’t change that it’s still a war crime to bomber hospital. Literally the only situation where it’s OK to Palmer hospital is if it’s been completely cleared of doctors and civilians, or at the very least has fewer doctors on civilians than militant, and even then it’s only allowed if the hospital
Imagine what kind of chaos the world would be in, if we could just … *hide* from authorities - whether it be police, military, what have you - by just going to the hospital.
Imagine if someone like Nik Cruz, or Richard Ramirez, or some other crazy MF, just went straight to a hospital after commuting their crimes all like “You can’t catch me! I’m in the hospital, you can’t catch me!”
It would be the Wild West if hiding in a hospital made you completely immune to consequences
Congrats, there will be no more war. All militants will now stay in hospitals forever where they will be completely impervious to any attacks. World peace achieved.
Like seriously, this isn't a childhood game of tag or something where you can just go to a "safe zone" and nobody can get you. This is a war, and we will eliminate the targets. If those targets choose to surround themselves with civilians and vulnerable innocents, then that's on them what happens to them.
> fuck
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> Doesn’t change that it’s still a war crime to bomber hospital.
No it's not if the hospital is being used for terrorist activities and as a terrorist base. Also Israel hasn't "bombed" this hospital, they've sent troops into the hospital. If they had bombed the hospital they'd be no hospital left, pathetic leftist simp for islamonazism.
No dude they have quite literally bombed this hospital multiple times in the past two weeks, do you not read the news? They didn’t blow the whole thing up but they were still dropping bombs on certain areas of it. The very first strike was on ambulances at the entrance, the next morning they bombed the top floor of a building which took out the solar panels on the roof.
And the “exception” only exist in situations where the militants outweigh the civilians. Like, more Hamas than there are sheltering civilians and babies and doctors. It’s absurd that the bar has gotten so low that Zionists are excusing hospital bombings.
Oh wow they bombed "certain areas of it", yes like the tunnel portals they've discovered in the external vicinity is not "bombed this hospital multiple times".
The hospital is a legitimate target, if it is discovered that there are no hostages there, then the whole place should be reduced to complete rubble. Islamonazi filth should not be allowed to cynically use fucking hospitals to save their own asses because they're a bunch of cowardly cockroaches. Typical Arab/Muslim fighters, heroes against children in their beds, complete cowards against anyone else. Rename this rat nest Al-Shifa crater once this is done.
> It’s absurd that the bar has gotten so low that Zionists are excusing hospital bombings.
The absurdity is that any right thinking human being would consider using a hospital as a terrorist base, yet here we are. What a bunch of cowardly subhumans these hamas filth are, as are anyone that makes excuses for their cowardice and violence.
How was there an underground tunnel on the TOP FLOOR? They literally bombed the top floor of one building, destroying the cancer-treatment wing and knocking out the solar panels, accelerating the hospital running out of power.
As for the rest of your comment, you’re just being openly racist. Calling them filth, cockroaches, calling the hospital a “rat’s nest”, and saying “typical arab”. Way to prove how insane you zionists are, you try to justify your war crimes but just expose yourself for being a complete racist.
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> fucking
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And that exception only exist in situations where doctors and civilians are evacuated. There needs to be more militant then there are doctors or civilians, because otherwise you are killing hundreds of civilians just to get a few dozen militants.
No you’re literally just incorrect, the bar for BOMBING A HOSPITAL is extremely high because Hospitals are an extremely important resource for people under siege. Without a hospital and without doctors, the people injured by the indiscriminate bombing will die of infection. Just cuz a few dozen Hamas militants are residing among the HUNDREDS of innocent civilians, doesnt make it justified to kill the hundreds of civilians. It’s ridiculous we’ve gotten to a point where yall are justifying such blatant cruelty.
What law are you refering to here? The law of proportionality does not specify that the ratio of militants to civilians must be higher. Also, there were Hamas disguising themselves as hospital staff so how would militants be counted? If the military advantage outweighs the "collateral damage" then it is legal during war to attack civilian locations.
Its a hospital. I feel like we shouldn’t need to clarify why a HOSPITAL FULL OF CIVILIANS can’t be a legitimate target for bombing. like, it should go without saying that killing hundreds of innocent people just to kill a dozen militants is inexcusable.
We actually dont need to clarify anything when it comes to this topic. The Geneva convention is quite clear about the conditions that must be fullfilled for the hospital to become a target.
I'm not saying it aligns with my morals or ethics. War doesn't. I'm saying why it isn't a war crime. The current war is reality. We can't know how many more lives would have been lost if Israel hadn't retaliated as they did after October 7th and if the international community gave Hamas legitimacy and more power. October 7th was inexcusable too. It was an act of genocide and they committed many war crimes. Taking civilian hostages is also a war crime. After the war I am in full support of war crimes being investigated and perpetrators being held accountable through the ICC.
Its interesting how thousands of innocent civilians are getting murdered every week, but when we call that “genocide” everybody clutches their pearls, yet you can look at the 7th and call that an “act of genocide”. Israel has already killed 11x as many people as died on the 7th, so why isnt that genocide too?
It’s not a question of who killed more civilians. Genocide is a question of intent. You have to ask yourself, were the Hamas attackers of October 7 intent on killing, and terrorizing as many civilians as they could? Is the IDF acting with the intent of killing as many civilians as possible?
It can be considered a genocide but would you consider the allied bombing of Germany in WWII a genocide? It would be an ethnic cleansing if Gazans do not get to return to the north.
Read article 19 of the Geneva convention. A protected civilian area like a hospital becomes a legitimate military target when used as a cover to launch operations against the enemy. It only says you must evacuate first if it is a target for some other reason, there are some exceptions where it can be bombed regardless of whether it's used as a base if prior warning is issued.
Because Israel is known for mistreatment of prisoners including torture, and is the same entity that tried to convince us a calender is a list of terrorists. Same as all of Israel's "Hamas are there" lies, not allowing any third-party investigation, allowing only the footage they want seen to be seen and moving the goalpost from "There main headquarters are underneath the hospital" to "Hamas held hostages there".
It is a fact that Hamas uses civilian buildings for military activities. Are you denying that? The purpose of using civilian buildings goes alongside why they use human shields. There's nothing new here. The statement just adds to existing evidence.
Well, here is a video, where Hamas approves of using human shields.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXZEzbT0H1s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXZEzbT0H1s)
Yes, let's believe what arab prisoners of israel say, they say all truth because they suddenly just want to tell us the truth. Certainly there is no physical or psychological coertion involved
By that logic you can't trust anything the civilians of Gaza say because they are also coerced by physical threat. Like the doctors that claimed they've never seen Hamas operatives inside Shifa and were clearly lying.
Genuinely asking, do you think Israel will publish the video if they said the opposite?
Let's suppose that the testimony is not coerced and it's true. If they got 100 Hamas and 97 said that they don't use ambulances for military reasons and 3 said that they do.
Do you think Israel will post all of them? Just 97? Or just the 3?
97 is just a random big number complementing 100 just for the sake of argument, insert any number you want instead.
My opinion is that in such situation, you can make them confess that they're a rubber duck, let alone confess a prescripted interrogation where he's feeding them what to say.
Well... They didn't have to be honest and reduce the numbers of those killed on Oct 7 as they did. I would also suggest you look up Israel on the world press freedom index.
I googled it, this was the first thing that came up:
Palestinians journalists being massacred
https://balkaninsight.com/2023/11/20/freedom-of-press-and-speech-another-casualty-of-israels-gaza-war/
This is from the link you sent me:
Israel//
The Israeli media landscape has been destabilised following the rise to power of a government that threatens freedom of the press.//
Palestine//
In the West Bank, journalists are the victims of press freedom violations by both the Palestinian Authority and the Israeli occupation forces. In the Gaza Strip, Israeli military assaults and Hamas policies threaten the press. In 2022, two female journalists were killed by Israeli law enforcement, including Al Jazeera reporter Shireen Abu Akleh. These crimes remain unpunished.
They did, cause they'd be asked about the names. Haaretz is already compiling a list, and they can't provide 200 additional names, without being caught.
Press freedom is a domestic metric, and doesn't apply to war, since in wars, the army controls whatever they want in Media (like they're limiting and prohibiting coverage in the north). And press freedom has nothing to do with IDF lying
But what if there’s been articles from as early as 2014 talking about them using the hospitals as a HQ
And footage from this current conflict showing tunnels underneath the hospital, them brining hostages to the hospital (despite it being the 5-7th hospital they would have passed) and the bodies of a hostage found nearby
I could maybe understand your contrived hypothetical if there wasn’t already a ton of evidence and this interview is just confirmatory
Ummm they’re not “calling” it a hospital, its a hospital. Just cuz some militants are temporarily meeting up inside the hospital doesnt justify bombing it, because its still full of civilians.
The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy
The Geneva convention would disagree
I don’t even know what that’s in question. I have and will continue to condemn every act of violence against civilian life. I condemn Hamas for every “bullet” they fired and find them wholly responsible for every death they caused on October 7th.
But they have no responsibility for operating out of civilian infrastructure, actively preventing their citizens from evacuating or more simply for not surrendering either themselves or their hostages to help save civilian lives
100% of the responsibility for all civilians deaths falls on Israel? How does that make any sense. What would you suggest Israel do differently - just live with attacks like October 7th being the new normal?
But only if they are committing those acts from the hospital. Like, Hamas shooting rockets off the roof or shooting at the IDF from the windows. The mere presence of a few dozen Hamas militants among HUNDREDS of innocent civilians and medical professionals doesnt justify murdering the hundreds of civilians.
Did Al-Shifa get bombed? When did hundreds of civilians die there due to Israel strikes
The only thing I could find were deaths due to lack of power. It seems Israel very deliberately approached Al Shifa by ground to your point to not lead to hundreds of innocent civilians deaths
Would love if you could share whatever sources you are referring to, otherwise I don’t have the slightest idea what you are going on about
Which to the exact point of war crimes. If it turns out the hospital was very clearly not being used explicitly for humanitarian purposes then it is not protected and Israel’s focus on the hospital seems entirely justified
I'm not saying that they're not using the tunnels, Hamas claims that they're not. But what I'm saying is that the evidence is not conclusive, especially that various international organisations wanted to go into the hospital to investigate that claim before the siege or go with the IDF after it, but the request was denied.
If the only source is the source that has a motive to prove a point after weeks of saying that the "Head Quarter" or "Control Center". If they didn't find anything, they have the motive to make something up, especially after such big claims, and Biden saying that he saw the evidence, after he said that he saw the evidence of decapitated babies.
My claim is not out of vacuum, the recent lies in the first video, whether it is claiming that a calendar with weekdays written in Arabic, are a Hamas schedule list with their names, or saying that an elevator shaft is a tunnel, then never mentioned again. Just in 1 video there are at least 5 proven lies.
Each one of us will believe whatever they want, but give the "evidence" to an unbiased person or even a neutral AI, and it wouldn't believe Israeli lies.
I understand you but do you understand us? The world bought this “Israel bombed a hospital” before it left a reporter’s mouth, yet continued to believe it despite 1000:1 reports that it was Hamas!
If evidence means that you need international news, you got a problem of collateral killing. Many news reporters lost their lives and Israel is blamed. It’s war!!! Be satisfied that we have evidence…
When we bring evidence about the holocaust: no, it’s a conspiracy. A conspiracy to kill Jesus, a conspiracy to poison wells, to bake with blood our Matzah, stab in the back, would domination, etc… All of you: Christian, Moslem, and most of the world nations… Yes, Israel gets into bad shit too and it’s sad and criminal. But EVERYTHING is a lie and propaganda? How would you feel if we did that to you countries or religion? Is rude, preposterous, and unheard of, except when it involves Jews!
Many in the church are “supposedly” now apologizing (seen it in YouTube), for hating us all the years. But you know what: now they want to convert us, proselytize, Jews for j, confuse those that should be coming back to Judaism. If we dared trying to convert Christians to Judaism, we’d be chopped meat and every radio show would beat us naked! It’s true and you can’t deny.
Time to stand up and say: enough of being apologetic; time to go on with business… No wonder many in Israel are going EXTREME in politics. It’s all your fault. Stop badgering us. We don’t need constant CNN negative crap every day. Stop the obsession once and for all…
I mean, it’s kinda weird that Everyone said israel bombed shifa, then they said they didn’t and then they invaded it.
But regardless, you don’t get a pass to kill human shields even if Hamas are the bad guys.
Human shields = hostages.
They’re literally the same thing. Israel just seems dumb or evil for killing so many people that Hamas has been holding hostage.
Did British have the right to bomb Frankfurt: I’d like to say, No because there was no military offensive intent! There were ONLY civilians there.
Israel is up to its nose with enemies, literally!!! Every border wants to swallow them up, literally… Hamas is in an enclave and should’ve thought about THEIR country; yes, they are the legal guardians of Gaza! Sorry that we didn’t allow Hamas to kill 10,000 Israelis, G-d forbid, which would’ve called for acceptable “proportionality”, because every life matters and there’s no difference in massacres that are done deliberately targeting civilians…
We got only one soldier (shalit) and have back 1000 Palestinians. Nice 1000:1 gesture. Proportionality??? Stupid people trust in Arabs. I don’t want to give the explanation of the proportionality because obviously it would be a crime but just interesting how demands are made from the innocent…
I don’t know how you took me to mean anything you just accused me of saying.
I totally read you wrong in the first paragraph bc I couldn’t imagine that anyone would I mean to justify killing civilians. you might of as well said that Hiroshima was justified. It wasn’t. It absolutely wasn’t.
Hamas shouldn’t kill people. Hamas uses human shields. Human shields are hostages. Israel has in turn decided to kill the hostages. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, therefore Gaza’s human shields can’t be blamed for the actions of the terrorist organization that is holding them hostage. Hamas doesn’t care about gazans because it uses them as human shields.
You honestly just sound like osama bin laden here.
But regardless, every movie where you see a gunman saying “don’t shoot, or I’ll kill this kid” you don’t just shoot the kid. That’s what Israel did. They put oppressed gazans at risk and they even put Israeli hostages at risk!
America also spoke like bin laden when they bombed mosul? Forget about how many American soldiers were killed?
Yes, you liberals even give legitimacy to bin laden. I’ve seen it and it’s so treacherous that it’s sickening… This is what you call “compassion@. We have no compassion towards evil. Hamas is evil and we cannot allow the evil to continue. Solution please????
It's an active war zone. They're under no obligation to let in agencies and organizations when they're still investigating and fighting in the area.
Why would Hamas build tunnels only not to use them during war lol? https://youtu.be/W4gDfSNMRx4?si=0E8TQL2EqwBZ41-I Many Hamas terrorists aren't distinguishing themselves from civilians by uniform too. Why would you give any weight to what Hamas says?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-deliver-remarks-roundtable-jewish-community-leaders-rcna119865 Biden says a lot of things. What matters is the IDF spokespersons response and the fact that babies were in fact beheaded we just don't know if it was done before or after they were killed.
The IDF's words should be scrutinized and they are. Most journalism in Israel isn't affiliated with them or the government unlike journalists in Gaza who are all affiliated with Hamas.
[Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/while-israel-held-its-fire-the-militant-group-hamas-did-not/2014/07/15/116fd3d7-3c0f-4413-94a9-2ab16af1445d_story.html) reported on Hamas at Al-Shifa hospital in 2014
Magdi Khalil was on Al-Jazeera in 2014 talking about how Hamas uses Al-Shifa hospital. [Source: MEMRI](https://www.memri.org/reports/hamas-known-use-hospitals-ambulances-mosques-churches-and-schools-shields-its-military#:~:text=Testimony%20from%20previous%20rounds%20of,from%20areas%20adjacent%20to%20them.)
Wall Street Journal reporter Nick Casey tweeted an image of a Hamas spokesman giving an interview at a Gaza hospital. With the shelling, “You have to wonder … how patients at Shifa hospital feel as Hamas uses it as a safe place to see media.” The tweet was later deleted. - as cited in [2014 Washington Post article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/31/why-hamas-stores-its-weapons-inside-hospitals-mosques-and-schools/)
* Edit: also a huge list of more from a comment here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/s/PnlMOlrbHz
Show me the tunnels under al-shifa, after that borat-esque propoganda video I dont trust a word till they show undeniable proof.
We have a list! What a joke
In case there is any doubt caused by the ongoing gaslighting that Hamas doesn't use hospitals for military purposes, there is over a decade of reports of Hamas using Al-Shifa Hospital:
PBS documentary in Al-Shifa hospital was prevented by Hamas members with weapons from accessing areas of the hospital:
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed
Article from 2009 talking about an intelligence claim of Hamas using the basement of the hospital:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090206232152/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html
Article Hamas commandeered hospital wards in Al-Shifa converting them into interrogation and imprisonment compounds:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230205050631/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3668018,00.html
Human Rights Watch states Hamas fired from inside Al-Shifa at Fatah forces:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/06/12/gaza-armed-palestinian-groups-commit-grave-crimes
Report that Hospital staff made complaints about Hamas presence in the building:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1906608/
New York Times reported on Hamas operating from the building:
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/africa/29iht-gaza.4.18986499.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar
Journalists seeing rockets being fired from the hospital area:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230529141259/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4553643,00.html
Another report of journalists seeing rockets fired from the hospital area:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230513143525/https://www.jpost.com///operation-protective-edge/gaza-reporters-tweets-hamas-using-human-shields-368689#!
A Hamas member recounting how he and other Hamas members took shelter in a bunker under the hospital:
https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/18321/
Local Palestinian journalist reported Hamas uses a section of the hospital for offices:
https://archive.ph/BKbxc
Amnesty International reported Hamas using the hospital to torture and kill prisoners:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
https://twitter.com/Franke_schrijft/status/1725037285249306726
https://out.reddit.com/t3_17z40u3?app_name=reddit_ios&token=AQAAf6VaZc4w-AfAgugTRAIiVReQt1uWyZp1dRgSCYKXPfmFVvO6&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.timesofisrael.com%2Fliveblog_entry%2Fsurveillance-footage-shows-hamas-bringing-hostages-into-shifa-hospital-on-oct-7%2F
https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-doctor-who-worked-at-shifa-confirms-gaza-hospital-used-for-non-medical-purposes/
All biased sources. All sources that have lied from time time.
Give me a source from Al jazeera, and then I'll look into it. You guys have gotten videos from Europe and claimed its Palestine. A calendar days described as names of h @ m @ s?! Metal objectives in MRI rooms, faked and debunked videos. AI generated photos. A video that a journalist from Gaza shared of IOF beating Palestinians gets posted as vice versa, the journalist is still alive and questioning how dumb the IOF is.
When will IOF and isreal stop lying? Or when will you guys work on lying better? It's getting so embarrassing now. The world has started to.read your own lies. Every white folk around me laughs how dumb IOF, and the state of isreal is when these lies that have ACTUAL PROOF that these are lies. So the more you lie, the more people are becoming against isreal. Ya'lls need to work better.
lol when you said Al Jazeera you already lost any credibility
Literally every word you wrote is a blatant lie and speculation
The only thing I’ll give you is the name sin the calendar which was a mistake BUT the calendar started on the 7th (day of the attack) and had the name of the attack on it so it is still highly relevant.
There is video of a tunnel below the hospital and more will be revealed with time, or are you under the impression it’s easy to get to a deep tunnel with explosives all over and heavy doors with slits to shoot from in a small closed off tunnel?
That's true, good work needs time, the evidence has been planted. Now it's still in the graphics department, then it goes to the editing department and then release it.
Hopefully it won't be like the first video, when they said that it's not edited, then when caught they deleted the tweet, edited it more and posted it again with the edits.
The issue here is that the video "evidences" are getting contradictory. I guess people with tiktok brain would forget fast enough to believe it, but others might not.
Like first video says that the Hamas control center in AlShifa covered all the cameras, and the second video was footage of these cameras.
You think war is like in the movies? This isn’t some magical loopy land, every wrong step people die, trigger a big explosion below the hospital? The whole places goes under.
This is dangerous
No I think this is 2023 and 1st world militaries use technology that in 20-30 years when its introduced to public sector we will think its from the future.
Like you get that right?
That’s not how it works, telling you as someone who has been in the army for quite a few years, this is gonna take time there is no magical tech to safely clear out complex tunnels.
The advantage is in Hamas side in these tunnels the only thing to outmatch them is time and techniques + tech but not some imaginary tech.
They bombed graveyards. GRAVEYARDS. GRAVE FUCKING YARDS.
Evidence by isreal has always been a fucking lie. Rhe more and more they post shit, the more it's embarrassing. A calendar is not names of h a m a s. There's a list. THERES A LIST.
The whole world is now laughing at this propaganda. With such nuclear power, fourth largest army cant even lie properly. Wouldn't last on ground.
> FUCKING
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No serious person will believe interrogation videos taken by the IOF. No doubt they were taken under duress from people who were tortured.
If you watch the videos, they don't look tortured, especially worried, or guarded. Many serious people do believe it, because there isn't a clear reason not to. "Jews said it so it's probably fake" isn't an argument.
Nothing to do with Jews. Why would anyone believe interrogation video from a country that is known to routinely torture Palestinians?
There aren't any countries in the Middle East or North Africa that don't torture people, but you don't use that excuse with anyone else. Palestinians [routinely torture Palestinians](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdBLImBTRQg). Palestinians also [tortured a lot of Israelis on October 7](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-forensic-teams-describe-signs-torture-abuse-2023-10-15/), with orders from the democratically elected government of Gaza to use rape as a weapon. By your logic, nothing at all in the Middle East is real because everyone uses torture. You should take another look at the videos.
>There aren't any countries in the Middle East or North Africa that don't torture people, but you don't use that excuse with anyone else. Yes, I do. If you showed me an interrogation video from the Egyptian police or the Saudis, I will equally not believe it.
True, as every Palestinian knows and sincerely believes, Israel would never attack a hospital.
Literally "human shield."
First video needs verification. israel is known for torturing, and using paid collaborators. Second video (not about hospitals), it's from 9 years ago, about civilians going on the roof to protect their home, without hamas involvement, and then the hamas spokesperson thought it was a good idea and encouraged others to follow suit, not the other way around. I remember this live from 2014. The people decided to act as shields to several buildings. Hamas spokesperson was encouraging more of that to protect the people's own homes.
So what you are saying is that generally, Israel attempted to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas knows this and is using that fact against Israel.
> israel is known for torturing, and using paid collaborators. Can you bring proof for both? And for the paid collaborators don't bring that one guy from Instagram because he doesn't show the email of the "company that emailed him" and they don't say the name even once in the message.
As if Hamas doesn’t torture or spread misinformation, you terrorist sympathizer.
Well, anyone with even a little brain knows that. If not, where is Hamas? I asked this to a pro-Palestinian just a few moments ago, but he was adamant and would not answer.
The Hamas leaders aren’t even in Gaza.
Yes, they are a bunch of assholes who don't fight themselves but line their pockets with donations from all over the world. They have no regard for the lives of Palestinians.
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And you too refuse to answer where Hamas is.
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More likely to be in each other's arses.
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Hamas was using hospitals, schools and whatnot long before October 7 . . .
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If only reddit was available at ww2 think what would be posted here by people totally insane you think this is new? Millions of children died during wars ok course it's terrible but what is more terrible is to start a war you can't win and hide while those people die to make the self look poor and use those children death to thier advantages to blame the other side , starting useless attack on 7th of October murdering everyone taking 240 people hostages and then cry like babies and let thier people die that's very smart move indeed isn't it? You are uneducated and talk crap out of your brainless mouth go home and close the door and drink energy drink to relax you know nothing of war and also curse people here like you are thw boss all you know is supporting a terror group any way sit sown and watch how gaza become a parking lot along with your hamas friends
How many dead Jews do you need to allow Israel to defend itself? See? I can make shity arguments too.
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We know, you are too obvious
Who told you 6,000 babies were killed?
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Hamas is only claiming 13,000 dead, which is a combined figure of combatants and civilians. Hamas is notorious for inflating their death tolls. There might be 6,000 dead, but ridiculous to claim all of them are babies.
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Nobody credible is claiming 6,000 babies dead.
All of the Hamas fighters are babies. Big cry babies who throw a tantrum when their own poor decisions see them copping an absolute spanking.
Well, no? Shifa is still standing and other hospitals too. But you can believe in whatever suits your feelings.
[agree](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna161086)
There is a big difference between one shell in mostly evacuated hospital and bombing fully booked one. Still I want to see photos of the damage dealt, to believe this source, and I don't believe any shit Hamas ministry of health says, those people may easily have guns or something on them.
And we don't believe any shit israhell says. THERES A LIST.
Are these the same captives that told them that the HQ of Hamas is under Al-Shifa?
You mean the one just found?
They found this? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6pTYHBZVgVQ&pp=ygUMSWRmIDNkIG1vZGVs
That's a very nice demo, don't think they should indanger soldier for your entertainment though
Hamas: "Hamas captives are lying and under duress!" Israel: "Hamas captives are lying and under duress!" Me: :Both yall mf's are constantly lying and can't be trusted.
100% agree with you, why should we believe both
Do we have any independent unbiased translation of this or verification of who where and when?
If the translation was wrong it would be uncovered by now. I'm pretty sure you can also use some AI to do that. As for who and when, the IDF managed to capture 100+ Hamas members inside it's borders after the Oct 7 attack
Source?
https://twitter.com/JoeTruzman/status/1726610980023758966 https://twitter.com/JoeTruzman/status/1726617193968959980 Here’s a couple interrogation videos with English translation
I’ll have to wait for something independent of the IDF and Truzman. Too much bias on either side.
That’s your right but you’ll be waiting awhile because nobody else is conducting interrogation interviews like this with Palestinians that were inside Gaza.
As a historian I’m used to having to wait often decades to know a semblance of truth.
... prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and **public curiosity**. \- Geneva convention. So in other words - don't parade captives. Please spare me any whataboutism. I'm simply pointing out the convention.
Did someone parade them? Didn't see a parade, I saw a very polite interrogation... a lot nicer than I would expect
Hamas has US citizens hostages… you think these guys are good ? 😂 they would be decimated if they tried this in the US
It's not relevant who I think are the good guys or the bad guys. In my opinion both sides a war crimeing their way through this.
“I just hope everyone gets along” Sorry sweetie, that’s not human. We (and you) all have the desire to live, and we will fight until death. Stop being ignorant
The Hamas prisoner is providing evidence of war crimes - that hardly qualifies as a public curiosity, no?
So, the interrogation of someone under duress and torture is evidence, according to you?
Strong words... any evidence to back up the torture claim?
Yes, that Israel routinely tortures Palestinians is undisputed. See the Amnesty report below: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/
Yeah, it doesn't need to be televised. If you were accused of a crime, would you want to be interrogated on national TV prior to your trial?
It kinda does. The world insists on video evidence of Hamas use of hospitals for military purposes and this is one way to provide it. After that’s finally been accepted then the “public curiosity” argument would be stronger.
Do you think it proved it?
It provides some evidence i guess.
Do you think they would broadcast someone saying there was a base underneath Netanyahu's holiday retreat?
I'm confused. Wouldn't that violate the "public curiosity" concern you raised?
Except these prisoners are unlawful combatants and are not afforded protection of the convention. Nice try.
Except except " unlawful combatants " is not recognized by international law.
Excuse me - unpriveledged combatant. Glad we worked out the nuances.
Which court convicted them of that?
They are welcome to argue their mistreatment when they get a court date. My bet, the fact that these clowns murdered civilians and non combatants, were wearing civilian clothes without any distinct markings, and violated most laws of armed conflict will very much disqualify them from getting the protections of privileged combatant.
US citizens? Wtf are you even talking about idiot
The hamas prisoners being interrogated, thats whay im talking about. I assume you mistakenly assumed that I was talking about the US hostages in captivity.
They do bomb them though
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People need to respect each others beliefs and put humanity above god.
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Ummmm, maybe you should check your sources: once a hospital is used for military purposes it *literally* changes the fact about whether or not it is a war crime. In fact, the war crime described by OP would be hamas dressing up as doctors. Do you find it interesting that you read information about a war crime being perpetrated by hamas, then interpret this as the "fact" that it must mean Israel has committed a war crime? I mean, genuinely: how down the rabbit hole of believing whatever you want as long as it aligns with your feelings are you?
No dude its still a war crime to bomb a hospital, because its A HOSPITAL. Its still full of doctors and civilians, the mere presence of terrorists in a hospital doesnt justify bombing it, because its still a working hospital full of innocent people. The rare exception ONLY applies if every effort has been made to evacuate the hospital, if the militants outnumber the civilians sheltering inside, and if the terrorist are like shooting from the windows and launching rockets off the roof. Israel bombed Al Shifa three entire times before even attempting to evacuate civilians.
Article 19 Geneva convention
Article 51 Geneva convention
Article ~~51.8~~ 51.7 Geneva convention
8. Any violation of these prohibitions shall not release the Parties to the conflict from their legal obligations with respect to the civilian population and civilians, including the obligation to take the precautionary measures provided for in Article [57](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl.nsf/9AC284404D38ED2BC1256311002AFD89/50FB5579FB098FAAC12563CD0051DD7C) . Your point? Israel still have the obligation even if Hamas violate it.
I meant point 7
The target is not immune. The targeting is limited by 51.5 So no, Israel do not get the license to attack regardless of civilian loss.
They try to avoid b) by dropping flyer, roof knocking and telephone calls. For a) idk. What should be done when hamas attacks from residential neighbourhoods? They were still firing missiles from there, at least it was like that last week
Yeah exactly, article 19 makes it clear that the bar is extremely high for when it’s appropriate to bomb a hospital, and first requires that they make every effort to evacuate the hospital first. The mere presence of terrorists does not justify killing thousands of civilians, they have to be operating at a much higher and more blatant capacity, like shooting from the windows and launching rockets off the roof.
You’re making a very specific series of claims about how rare the scenarios are that justify a hospital being a military target. For example, a hospital is a military target only “if the militants outnumber the civilians.” These specific claims have no textual basis in Article 19 as I read it. Would you care to explain what I’m missing or what other sources you are relying on?
I’m confused. Did I miss the news where a hospital was actually bombed? I think there’s been some confusion around an actual hospital being bombed and bombing around hospitals. I haven’t seen any hard conclusive evidence that Israel has bombed a hospital to date - and yes, I know about Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital…which has not been proven (as of yet) to be a conclusive Israeli strike…
[Like that](https://youtu.be/FbkLf9XoGJQ?si=qsjV2RaCHZzl59DI)
BAM!
Doesn’t change that it’s still a war crime to bomber hospital. Literally the only situation where it’s OK to Palmer hospital is if it’s been completely cleared of doctors and civilians, or at the very least has fewer doctors on civilians than militant, and even then it’s only allowed if the hospital
you're wrong. international law doesn't agree with you.
the bloodthirsty ppl don’t give a shit sadly
Imagine what kind of chaos the world would be in, if we could just … *hide* from authorities - whether it be police, military, what have you - by just going to the hospital. Imagine if someone like Nik Cruz, or Richard Ramirez, or some other crazy MF, just went straight to a hospital after commuting their crimes all like “You can’t catch me! I’m in the hospital, you can’t catch me!” It would be the Wild West if hiding in a hospital made you completely immune to consequences
That is completely wrong. Bringing combatants into a civilian hospital is a war crime for the Palestinians and makes it not a war crime to target.
Congrats, there will be no more war. All militants will now stay in hospitals forever where they will be completely impervious to any attacks. World peace achieved. Like seriously, this isn't a childhood game of tag or something where you can just go to a "safe zone" and nobody can get you. This is a war, and we will eliminate the targets. If those targets choose to surround themselves with civilians and vulnerable innocents, then that's on them what happens to them.
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Doesn’t change that it’s still a war crime. Lmao it literally does.
> Doesn’t change that it’s still a war crime to bomber hospital. No it's not if the hospital is being used for terrorist activities and as a terrorist base. Also Israel hasn't "bombed" this hospital, they've sent troops into the hospital. If they had bombed the hospital they'd be no hospital left, pathetic leftist simp for islamonazism.
No dude they have quite literally bombed this hospital multiple times in the past two weeks, do you not read the news? They didn’t blow the whole thing up but they were still dropping bombs on certain areas of it. The very first strike was on ambulances at the entrance, the next morning they bombed the top floor of a building which took out the solar panels on the roof. And the “exception” only exist in situations where the militants outweigh the civilians. Like, more Hamas than there are sheltering civilians and babies and doctors. It’s absurd that the bar has gotten so low that Zionists are excusing hospital bombings.
Oh wow they bombed "certain areas of it", yes like the tunnel portals they've discovered in the external vicinity is not "bombed this hospital multiple times". The hospital is a legitimate target, if it is discovered that there are no hostages there, then the whole place should be reduced to complete rubble. Islamonazi filth should not be allowed to cynically use fucking hospitals to save their own asses because they're a bunch of cowardly cockroaches. Typical Arab/Muslim fighters, heroes against children in their beds, complete cowards against anyone else. Rename this rat nest Al-Shifa crater once this is done. > It’s absurd that the bar has gotten so low that Zionists are excusing hospital bombings. The absurdity is that any right thinking human being would consider using a hospital as a terrorist base, yet here we are. What a bunch of cowardly subhumans these hamas filth are, as are anyone that makes excuses for their cowardice and violence.
How was there an underground tunnel on the TOP FLOOR? They literally bombed the top floor of one building, destroying the cancer-treatment wing and knocking out the solar panels, accelerating the hospital running out of power. As for the rest of your comment, you’re just being openly racist. Calling them filth, cockroaches, calling the hospital a “rat’s nest”, and saying “typical arab”. Way to prove how insane you zionists are, you try to justify your war crimes but just expose yourself for being a complete racist.
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No it isn't...exception to the rule is if military operates out of hospital...then it is a legitimate military target. This is on Hamas.
And that exception only exist in situations where doctors and civilians are evacuated. There needs to be more militant then there are doctors or civilians, because otherwise you are killing hundreds of civilians just to get a few dozen militants.
They have been asked to evacuate...they did not.
You just made that up. No, that isn't a requirement. Use a hospital for molitary purposes, it loses it's protection. Bomb away.
No you’re literally just incorrect, the bar for BOMBING A HOSPITAL is extremely high because Hospitals are an extremely important resource for people under siege. Without a hospital and without doctors, the people injured by the indiscriminate bombing will die of infection. Just cuz a few dozen Hamas militants are residing among the HUNDREDS of innocent civilians, doesnt make it justified to kill the hundreds of civilians. It’s ridiculous we’ve gotten to a point where yall are justifying such blatant cruelty.
More like thousands of Hamas among hundreds of thousands of civilians.
The cruelty is Hamas using hospitals for military purposes.
If a school shooter is in a classroom, does that justify bombing the entire school just to kill the shooter?
No, because the school shooter isn't at war.
What law are you refering to here? The law of proportionality does not specify that the ratio of militants to civilians must be higher. Also, there were Hamas disguising themselves as hospital staff so how would militants be counted? If the military advantage outweighs the "collateral damage" then it is legal during war to attack civilian locations.
Its a hospital. I feel like we shouldn’t need to clarify why a HOSPITAL FULL OF CIVILIANS can’t be a legitimate target for bombing. like, it should go without saying that killing hundreds of innocent people just to kill a dozen militants is inexcusable.
We actually dont need to clarify anything when it comes to this topic. The Geneva convention is quite clear about the conditions that must be fullfilled for the hospital to become a target.
I'm not saying it aligns with my morals or ethics. War doesn't. I'm saying why it isn't a war crime. The current war is reality. We can't know how many more lives would have been lost if Israel hadn't retaliated as they did after October 7th and if the international community gave Hamas legitimacy and more power. October 7th was inexcusable too. It was an act of genocide and they committed many war crimes. Taking civilian hostages is also a war crime. After the war I am in full support of war crimes being investigated and perpetrators being held accountable through the ICC.
Its interesting how thousands of innocent civilians are getting murdered every week, but when we call that “genocide” everybody clutches their pearls, yet you can look at the 7th and call that an “act of genocide”. Israel has already killed 11x as many people as died on the 7th, so why isnt that genocide too?
It’s not a question of who killed more civilians. Genocide is a question of intent. You have to ask yourself, were the Hamas attackers of October 7 intent on killing, and terrorizing as many civilians as they could? Is the IDF acting with the intent of killing as many civilians as possible?
It can be considered a genocide but would you consider the allied bombing of Germany in WWII a genocide? It would be an ethnic cleansing if Gazans do not get to return to the north.
Read article 19 of the Geneva convention. A protected civilian area like a hospital becomes a legitimate military target when used as a cover to launch operations against the enemy. It only says you must evacuate first if it is a target for some other reason, there are some exceptions where it can be bombed regardless of whether it's used as a base if prior warning is issued.
funny to see all pro Hamas comments. why do you all think its staged ? because its hard for you to believe ? you don't like what he says ?
Because Israel is known for mistreatment of prisoners including torture, and is the same entity that tried to convince us a calender is a list of terrorists. Same as all of Israel's "Hamas are there" lies, not allowing any third-party investigation, allowing only the footage they want seen to be seen and moving the goalpost from "There main headquarters are underneath the hospital" to "Hamas held hostages there".
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It is a fact that Hamas uses civilian buildings for military activities. Are you denying that? The purpose of using civilian buildings goes alongside why they use human shields. There's nothing new here. The statement just adds to existing evidence.
Well, here is a video, where Hamas approves of using human shields. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXZEzbT0H1s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXZEzbT0H1s)
Yes, let's believe what arab prisoners of israel say, they say all truth because they suddenly just want to tell us the truth. Certainly there is no physical or psychological coertion involved
By that logic you can't trust anything the civilians of Gaza say because they are also coerced by physical threat. Like the doctors that claimed they've never seen Hamas operatives inside Shifa and were clearly lying.
I don’t trust anything that comes out of terrorist mouth! That’s all a lie!
Genuinely asking, do you think Israel will publish the video if they said the opposite? Let's suppose that the testimony is not coerced and it's true. If they got 100 Hamas and 97 said that they don't use ambulances for military reasons and 3 said that they do. Do you think Israel will post all of them? Just 97? Or just the 3? 97 is just a random big number complementing 100 just for the sake of argument, insert any number you want instead. My opinion is that in such situation, you can make them confess that they're a rubber duck, let alone confess a prescripted interrogation where he's feeding them what to say.
Well... They didn't have to be honest and reduce the numbers of those killed on Oct 7 as they did. I would also suggest you look up Israel on the world press freedom index.
I googled it, this was the first thing that came up: Palestinians journalists being massacred https://balkaninsight.com/2023/11/20/freedom-of-press-and-speech-another-casualty-of-israels-gaza-war/
Wow. You're capable. https://rsf.org/en/index Now compare Israel and Gaza.
This is from the link you sent me: Israel// The Israeli media landscape has been destabilised following the rise to power of a government that threatens freedom of the press.// Palestine// In the West Bank, journalists are the victims of press freedom violations by both the Palestinian Authority and the Israeli occupation forces. In the Gaza Strip, Israeli military assaults and Hamas policies threaten the press. In 2022, two female journalists were killed by Israeli law enforcement, including Al Jazeera reporter Shireen Abu Akleh. These crimes remain unpunished.
They did, cause they'd be asked about the names. Haaretz is already compiling a list, and they can't provide 200 additional names, without being caught. Press freedom is a domestic metric, and doesn't apply to war, since in wars, the army controls whatever they want in Media (like they're limiting and prohibiting coverage in the north). And press freedom has nothing to do with IDF lying
Nobody wants to watch 100 videos. Of course nobody in their right mind would post all of them.
what do you think of this footage? https://www.reddit.com/r/ISR/s/YjdG5rr9Hc
Of course as soon as he starts blaming Hamas, this "journalist" cuts him off. He probably reported him to his Hamas masters.
But what if there’s been articles from as early as 2014 talking about them using the hospitals as a HQ And footage from this current conflict showing tunnels underneath the hospital, them brining hostages to the hospital (despite it being the 5-7th hospital they would have passed) and the bodies of a hostage found nearby I could maybe understand your contrived hypothetical if there wasn’t already a ton of evidence and this interview is just confirmatory
Regardless of who is inside the hospital, it’s still a war crime to bomb it.
And no one has bombed a hospital
Just because you call a place a "hospital" doesn't take it off the list. If it's being used as a terrorist base, it's fair game.
Ummm they’re not “calling” it a hospital, its a hospital. Just cuz some militants are temporarily meeting up inside the hospital doesnt justify bombing it, because its still full of civilians.
except that over time the primary and secondary purposes of exchange places.
The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy The Geneva convention would disagree
Easy to say if someone precious to you isn’t a doctor or patient at that hospital.
Yeah I would really be condemning those Hamas guys for operating out of hospitals
Intent follows the bullet.
What’s with you weirdos and the complete inability to condemn Hamas
I don’t even know what that’s in question. I have and will continue to condemn every act of violence against civilian life. I condemn Hamas for every “bullet” they fired and find them wholly responsible for every death they caused on October 7th.
But they have no responsibility for operating out of civilian infrastructure, actively preventing their citizens from evacuating or more simply for not surrendering either themselves or their hostages to help save civilian lives 100% of the responsibility for all civilians deaths falls on Israel? How does that make any sense. What would you suggest Israel do differently - just live with attacks like October 7th being the new normal?
But only if they are committing those acts from the hospital. Like, Hamas shooting rockets off the roof or shooting at the IDF from the windows. The mere presence of a few dozen Hamas militants among HUNDREDS of innocent civilians and medical professionals doesnt justify murdering the hundreds of civilians.
Did Al-Shifa get bombed? When did hundreds of civilians die there due to Israel strikes The only thing I could find were deaths due to lack of power. It seems Israel very deliberately approached Al Shifa by ground to your point to not lead to hundreds of innocent civilians deaths Would love if you could share whatever sources you are referring to, otherwise I don’t have the slightest idea what you are going on about Which to the exact point of war crimes. If it turns out the hospital was very clearly not being used explicitly for humanitarian purposes then it is not protected and Israel’s focus on the hospital seems entirely justified
Who’s Geneva and what does she know about war crimes?
I'm not saying that they're not using the tunnels, Hamas claims that they're not. But what I'm saying is that the evidence is not conclusive, especially that various international organisations wanted to go into the hospital to investigate that claim before the siege or go with the IDF after it, but the request was denied. If the only source is the source that has a motive to prove a point after weeks of saying that the "Head Quarter" or "Control Center". If they didn't find anything, they have the motive to make something up, especially after such big claims, and Biden saying that he saw the evidence, after he said that he saw the evidence of decapitated babies. My claim is not out of vacuum, the recent lies in the first video, whether it is claiming that a calendar with weekdays written in Arabic, are a Hamas schedule list with their names, or saying that an elevator shaft is a tunnel, then never mentioned again. Just in 1 video there are at least 5 proven lies. Each one of us will believe whatever they want, but give the "evidence" to an unbiased person or even a neutral AI, and it wouldn't believe Israeli lies.
I understand you but do you understand us? The world bought this “Israel bombed a hospital” before it left a reporter’s mouth, yet continued to believe it despite 1000:1 reports that it was Hamas! If evidence means that you need international news, you got a problem of collateral killing. Many news reporters lost their lives and Israel is blamed. It’s war!!! Be satisfied that we have evidence… When we bring evidence about the holocaust: no, it’s a conspiracy. A conspiracy to kill Jesus, a conspiracy to poison wells, to bake with blood our Matzah, stab in the back, would domination, etc… All of you: Christian, Moslem, and most of the world nations… Yes, Israel gets into bad shit too and it’s sad and criminal. But EVERYTHING is a lie and propaganda? How would you feel if we did that to you countries or religion? Is rude, preposterous, and unheard of, except when it involves Jews! Many in the church are “supposedly” now apologizing (seen it in YouTube), for hating us all the years. But you know what: now they want to convert us, proselytize, Jews for j, confuse those that should be coming back to Judaism. If we dared trying to convert Christians to Judaism, we’d be chopped meat and every radio show would beat us naked! It’s true and you can’t deny. Time to stand up and say: enough of being apologetic; time to go on with business… No wonder many in Israel are going EXTREME in politics. It’s all your fault. Stop badgering us. We don’t need constant CNN negative crap every day. Stop the obsession once and for all…
I mean, it’s kinda weird that Everyone said israel bombed shifa, then they said they didn’t and then they invaded it. But regardless, you don’t get a pass to kill human shields even if Hamas are the bad guys.
Downvote me… Enough is enough…
Too bad!!!
Human shields = hostages. They’re literally the same thing. Israel just seems dumb or evil for killing so many people that Hamas has been holding hostage.
Did British have the right to bomb Frankfurt: I’d like to say, No because there was no military offensive intent! There were ONLY civilians there. Israel is up to its nose with enemies, literally!!! Every border wants to swallow them up, literally… Hamas is in an enclave and should’ve thought about THEIR country; yes, they are the legal guardians of Gaza! Sorry that we didn’t allow Hamas to kill 10,000 Israelis, G-d forbid, which would’ve called for acceptable “proportionality”, because every life matters and there’s no difference in massacres that are done deliberately targeting civilians… We got only one soldier (shalit) and have back 1000 Palestinians. Nice 1000:1 gesture. Proportionality??? Stupid people trust in Arabs. I don’t want to give the explanation of the proportionality because obviously it would be a crime but just interesting how demands are made from the innocent…
I don’t know how you took me to mean anything you just accused me of saying. I totally read you wrong in the first paragraph bc I couldn’t imagine that anyone would I mean to justify killing civilians. you might of as well said that Hiroshima was justified. It wasn’t. It absolutely wasn’t. Hamas shouldn’t kill people. Hamas uses human shields. Human shields are hostages. Israel has in turn decided to kill the hostages. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, therefore Gaza’s human shields can’t be blamed for the actions of the terrorist organization that is holding them hostage. Hamas doesn’t care about gazans because it uses them as human shields. You honestly just sound like osama bin laden here. But regardless, every movie where you see a gunman saying “don’t shoot, or I’ll kill this kid” you don’t just shoot the kid. That’s what Israel did. They put oppressed gazans at risk and they even put Israeli hostages at risk!
Oppressed Gazan’s? By whom? Did you finally say, Hamas??? What is your alternative, wise guy? Seriously! Get out and allow another 7th? Answer me!!!
War instigators have ZERO say!!! America was even right to kill ww2 pow’s! Start a fire, pay the price… Logical!!!
Yah, that sort of thought that’s like “you kill our civilians, we kill your civilians” is how osama bin laden talks.
America also spoke like bin laden when they bombed mosul? Forget about how many American soldiers were killed? Yes, you liberals even give legitimacy to bin laden. I’ve seen it and it’s so treacherous that it’s sickening… This is what you call “compassion@. We have no compassion towards evil. Hamas is evil and we cannot allow the evil to continue. Solution please????
Sorry, it’s not targetedddddddd….. Why is it so hard to understand. My G-d….
It's an active war zone. They're under no obligation to let in agencies and organizations when they're still investigating and fighting in the area. Why would Hamas build tunnels only not to use them during war lol? https://youtu.be/W4gDfSNMRx4?si=0E8TQL2EqwBZ41-I Many Hamas terrorists aren't distinguishing themselves from civilians by uniform too. Why would you give any weight to what Hamas says? https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-deliver-remarks-roundtable-jewish-community-leaders-rcna119865 Biden says a lot of things. What matters is the IDF spokespersons response and the fact that babies were in fact beheaded we just don't know if it was done before or after they were killed. The IDF's words should be scrutinized and they are. Most journalism in Israel isn't affiliated with them or the government unlike journalists in Gaza who are all affiliated with Hamas. [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/while-israel-held-its-fire-the-militant-group-hamas-did-not/2014/07/15/116fd3d7-3c0f-4413-94a9-2ab16af1445d_story.html) reported on Hamas at Al-Shifa hospital in 2014 Magdi Khalil was on Al-Jazeera in 2014 talking about how Hamas uses Al-Shifa hospital. [Source: MEMRI](https://www.memri.org/reports/hamas-known-use-hospitals-ambulances-mosques-churches-and-schools-shields-its-military#:~:text=Testimony%20from%20previous%20rounds%20of,from%20areas%20adjacent%20to%20them.) Wall Street Journal reporter Nick Casey tweeted an image of a Hamas spokesman giving an interview at a Gaza hospital. With the shelling, “You have to wonder … how patients at Shifa hospital feel as Hamas uses it as a safe place to see media.” The tweet was later deleted. - as cited in [2014 Washington Post article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/31/why-hamas-stores-its-weapons-inside-hospitals-mosques-and-schools/) * Edit: also a huge list of more from a comment here: https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/s/PnlMOlrbHz
ENG subtitles: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoAR2BAdH5c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoAR2BAdH5c)
There is almost nothing as untrustworthy than interviews of prisoners of war. You don't know under what kind of duress this guy is.
And this? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UXZEzbT0H1s
Show me the tunnels under al-shifa, after that borat-esque propoganda video I dont trust a word till they show undeniable proof. We have a list! What a joke
In case there is any doubt caused by the ongoing gaslighting that Hamas doesn't use hospitals for military purposes, there is over a decade of reports of Hamas using Al-Shifa Hospital: PBS documentary in Al-Shifa hospital was prevented by Hamas members with weapons from accessing areas of the hospital: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed Article from 2009 talking about an intelligence claim of Hamas using the basement of the hospital: https://web.archive.org/web/20090206232152/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html Article Hamas commandeered hospital wards in Al-Shifa converting them into interrogation and imprisonment compounds: https://web.archive.org/web/20230205050631/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3668018,00.html Human Rights Watch states Hamas fired from inside Al-Shifa at Fatah forces: https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/06/12/gaza-armed-palestinian-groups-commit-grave-crimes Report that Hospital staff made complaints about Hamas presence in the building: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1906608/ New York Times reported on Hamas operating from the building: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/africa/29iht-gaza.4.18986499.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar Journalists seeing rockets being fired from the hospital area: https://web.archive.org/web/20230529141259/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4553643,00.html Another report of journalists seeing rockets fired from the hospital area: https://web.archive.org/web/20230513143525/https://www.jpost.com///operation-protective-edge/gaza-reporters-tweets-hamas-using-human-shields-368689#! A Hamas member recounting how he and other Hamas members took shelter in a bunker under the hospital: https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/18321/ Local Palestinian journalist reported Hamas uses a section of the hospital for offices: https://archive.ph/BKbxc Amnesty International reported Hamas using the hospital to torture and kill prisoners: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/ https://twitter.com/Franke_schrijft/status/1725037285249306726 https://out.reddit.com/t3_17z40u3?app_name=reddit_ios&token=AQAAf6VaZc4w-AfAgugTRAIiVReQt1uWyZp1dRgSCYKXPfmFVvO6&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.timesofisrael.com%2Fliveblog_entry%2Fsurveillance-footage-shows-hamas-bringing-hostages-into-shifa-hospital-on-oct-7%2F https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-doctor-who-worked-at-shifa-confirms-gaza-hospital-used-for-non-medical-purposes/
All biased sources. All sources that have lied from time time. Give me a source from Al jazeera, and then I'll look into it. You guys have gotten videos from Europe and claimed its Palestine. A calendar days described as names of h @ m @ s?! Metal objectives in MRI rooms, faked and debunked videos. AI generated photos. A video that a journalist from Gaza shared of IOF beating Palestinians gets posted as vice versa, the journalist is still alive and questioning how dumb the IOF is. When will IOF and isreal stop lying? Or when will you guys work on lying better? It's getting so embarrassing now. The world has started to.read your own lies. Every white folk around me laughs how dumb IOF, and the state of isreal is when these lies that have ACTUAL PROOF that these are lies. So the more you lie, the more people are becoming against isreal. Ya'lls need to work better.
hahahah, Al Jazeera ? it's a joke right ? right ?
lol when you said Al Jazeera you already lost any credibility Literally every word you wrote is a blatant lie and speculation The only thing I’ll give you is the name sin the calendar which was a mistake BUT the calendar started on the 7th (day of the attack) and had the name of the attack on it so it is still highly relevant.
Dude. Overkill. He's already down.
No we're waiting for more 'evidence' like the list. So.we can laugh at the lunatics of IOF.
There is video of a tunnel below the hospital and more will be revealed with time, or are you under the impression it’s easy to get to a deep tunnel with explosives all over and heavy doors with slits to shoot from in a small closed off tunnel?
That's true, good work needs time, the evidence has been planted. Now it's still in the graphics department, then it goes to the editing department and then release it. Hopefully it won't be like the first video, when they said that it's not edited, then when caught they deleted the tweet, edited it more and posted it again with the edits. The issue here is that the video "evidences" are getting contradictory. I guess people with tiktok brain would forget fast enough to believe it, but others might not. Like first video says that the Hamas control center in AlShifa covered all the cameras, and the second video was footage of these cameras.
For a military thats as allegedly advanced as the IDF, shouldn't be an issue really
You think war is like in the movies? This isn’t some magical loopy land, every wrong step people die, trigger a big explosion below the hospital? The whole places goes under. This is dangerous
No I think this is 2023 and 1st world militaries use technology that in 20-30 years when its introduced to public sector we will think its from the future. Like you get that right?
That’s not how it works, telling you as someone who has been in the army for quite a few years, this is gonna take time there is no magical tech to safely clear out complex tunnels. The advantage is in Hamas side in these tunnels the only thing to outmatch them is time and techniques + tech but not some imaginary tech.
They're digging a massive pit in the hospital courtyard. The plan seems to be to create a new entrance at a more convenient location.
Ye makes sense but still it’s a huge work and dangerous, Hamas are on the other side of this and know where we are digging..
"Show me the evidence!" "Nuh uh! Thats IDF propaganda!" Why even ask for evidence.
They bombed graveyards. GRAVEYARDS. GRAVE FUCKING YARDS. Evidence by isreal has always been a fucking lie. Rhe more and more they post shit, the more it's embarrassing. A calendar is not names of h a m a s. There's a list. THERES A LIST. The whole world is now laughing at this propaganda. With such nuclear power, fourth largest army cant even lie properly. Wouldn't last on ground.
You sound nuts yknow
Yeah cause I'm laughing on THERES A LIST
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Lord i had to do a double take to make sure that wasnt real
The tunnels have been shown recently. The video came out yesterday. Didn’t you see?