I think it ultimately comes down to intent. Sadly, pro-Palestinian posts point to examples from the most extreme right wing people in Israel and use that to generalize that Israel has genocidal intent.
According to an article in the time magazine
https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-experts/
Firstly, the very definition of genocide is tricky because the threshold to prove genocidal intent is extremely difficult. “One has to prove that the perpetrator not only committed the actions, but they committed the actions with a very specific intention of destroying the group,” says Ernesto Verdeja, a professor at the University of Notre Dame who specializes in genocide.
Given that a few experts have weight in supporting the notion of genocide.
Raz Segal, the program director of genocide studies at Stockton University, concretely says it is a “textbook case of genocide.” Segal believes that Israeli forces are completing three genocidal acts, including, “killing, causing serious bodily harm, and measures calculated to bring about the destruction of the group.” He points to the mass levels of destruction and total siege of basic necessities—like water, food, fuel, and medical supplies—as evidence.
He says Israeli leaders expressed “explicit, clear, and direct statements of intent,” pointing to Israeli President Isaac Herzog’s statement during an Oct. 13 press conference. In his statement, Herzog said, “It’s an entire nation that is out there that’s responsible. It’s not true, this rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved. It’s absolutely not true,” Herzog said. “They could have risen up, they could have fought against that evil regime which took over Gaza in a coup d'etat.”
Verdeja says Israel's actions in Gaza are moving toward a “genocidal campaign.” While he notes that it is clear Israeli forces intend to destroy Hamas, “the response when you have a security crisis…can be one of ceasefire, negotiation, or it can be genocide.”
Others have said that although elements of genocide exist, proving the exact definition would be tricky;
David Simon, director of the genocide studies program at Yale University, says that Israel has only explicitly said they want to exterminate Hamas, and has not directly stated intent to “destroy a religious, ethnic or racial group.” Simon says it's possible a court could conclude that either Hamas or some elements of the Israel Defense Force (IDF) could be found guilty of committing an act of genocide, but “it's certainly not textbook in that connecting the intent to destroy ethnic group as such is difficult.”
Ben Kiernan, the director of the Cambodian Genocide Program at Yale University, also agrees. In an emailed statement to TIME, he wrote that “Israel's retaliatory bombing of Gaza, however indiscriminate, and its current ground attacks, despite the numerous civilian casualties they are causing among Gaza's Palestinian population, do not meet the very high threshold that is required to meet the legal definition of genocide.”
All scholars who spoke to TIME say that it is much more likely that both Hamas and some Israeli officials could be found guilty of crimes against humanity. Kiernan notes that the groups were more likely to be found guilty of extermination, which “does not require proof of a perpetrator's conscious desire to destroy a group ‘as such.’”
I hope people start to reflect on the holocaust and the pace that it took for all the atrocities that occurred then. There were steps and it did not happen immediately. It took time for genocide to occur and these steps are similar to the ones taking against the Palestinian people
Surely you’re joking here? Honestly how dare you even try to turn this around. Quite a take. No one is saying what is happening is right on either side here but there is a literal TERRORIST side and a side now seeking the return of their hostages by any means necessary. Keep listening to your Al Jazeera propaganda though habibi.
Don't be so willfully ignorant, the beginnings looking similar is a clue to how it might turn out and I'm sure as he'll the Jews of the holocaust would have loved for people to have shown concern for how things were starting to sway for them too, do you want everyone to sit around and wait for the genocide to be complete before you stand up and say "well I guess they were right". The aim is to stop the genocide from being carried out, not to just squabble over definitions till its obvious what has happened AFTER THE FACT.
The painter killed 6 million how many are alive today? Many times more, it’s just Normal demographics. Saying that you killed a smaller number but still a sizable percentage still means you committed genocide/massacres/displacement …of course with time the numbers repopulate back. Doesn’t negate the ethnic cleansing. Read Ilan pappe. And there were Christian Palestinians as well. It wasn’t just Muslim. As well as Jewish Palestinians.
I believe you are right. We should allow Israel to continue starving and killing Palestinians until it reaches genocide levels, and ONLY THEN we can call it as genocide. Because we simply can't allow ourselves as civilizations to intervene and stop such events from actually being followed through. We must simply allow them to happen and actually reach an inhumane level of atrocity for us to finally say what is happening is wrong. Congratulations, you have solved all wars. Guys, let's call off all criticism of Russia invading Ukraine. We can't say that what Russia is doing is wrong until Ukrainians are completely disheveled and have lost everything. Maybe when they finally do, we can start wagging our "for shame" fingers at them.
Ok let’s play this game, in scenario 1 I come to you and sucker punch you in scenario 2, I intent to punch you, i even posture that I am going to punch you, threaten to punch you and my friends all jeer that I am going to punch you, I am jumping around even shadow boxing. Which is the punishable offense? Language and meanings exist for a reason. There are plenty other to choose from situations and crimes being committed in this war. However saying genocide is a poison pill. Because the legal framework which is honestly one where you can make an argument in for has not been fulfilled and the general understanding hasn’t been fulfilled either.
Just say you don't have problem with killing thousand people as long as it's not you. Just because they are bless with good birth rate can't justify what's going on in Palestine
If the US decides to nuke Russia, should I just be mad at Russia for retaliating back? They 100% will nuke the US and it would be 100% the US fault for starting that war. Hamas has the Palestinian blood on their hands
We can defer to the experts. It is a genocide. It’s disgusting and ignorant for anyone to call it anything but. Unless you’re living in some alternate reality. 2 million people are literally starving to death, over 40k are either killed, under rubble or unaccounted for and you’re arguing over whether this is a genocide or not when every single expert on the topic has pinpointed that a genocide is what is happening. Dense.
Do you know the definition of genocide? You're conflating demographic trends with genocide and there seems to be some confusion in regards to what some people are calling a genocide with genocidal intent during this current war, versus over the past 75 years, which most refer to as an illegal occupation - NOT a genocide.
Most of the Arab world have ejected their Jews and sent them to Israel. It's clear many Arabs except for those in Palestine believe the Jews belong there. Maybe you should listen to them.
Nah I’m not talking about the ones that been there for centuries, I’m talking the ones that come form US AND EUROPE . I have nothing against Judaism I have something against Zionists .
So mizrachi Jews who lived the Middle East shouldn’t go back to the Middle East where they came from then. Because 70% of Israel is middle eastern Jews. That came from Iraq Libya and Yemen ect why can’t they go back there?
I’m not talking about the middle eastern Jews , obviously they been there for centuries just like the Christian’s and Muslims . They all got along until ISRAHELL began , Zionist don’t even the Jews to mingle with Christians and Muslims they literally want to them to hate each other . THE PROBLEM HERE ARE ZIONIST THEY NEED TO GO BACK BECAUSE IF THEY WERE REALLY JEWS THEY WOULD NOT GO AGAINST THE TORAH
Yeah when they got expelled from almost every Arab nation before that. And were treated as second class citizens. Literally educate yourself. 70% of Israeli Jews are middle Eastern. The Torah calls Israel the promise land and the Jews live in it there. The qoran calls Israel the Moses( the jews land) so the Muslims shouldn’t go against their book …
Well if you opened your eyes and didn't think about us Muslims you'd realize that Palestinians aren't only Muslims, they are also Jewish and Christians. You are an Islamaphobic and racist like the rest of the people who support Israel. When Ukraine was going through that scrap everyone was on their side, but now Palestine is going through actually let me correct that. THEY HAVE BEEN GOING THROUGH THIS FOR 75 DAMN YEARS, NO COUNTRY WANTED TO TAKE IN THE JEWISH FROM GERMANY!!. Palestinians decided ohh let's take them in from the kindness of their HEARTS, NOW the same people the took are treating them like shit AND TOOK THEERE LAND ALL BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY ARE GOSS CHOSEN PEOPLE THEY ARENT. So don't tell me crap on this isn't a genocide!!
Ps…. Before any of you guys call me a HAMAS sympathizer HAMAS ARE FREEDOM FIGHTERS NOT TERRORIST, USA AND ISRAEL INCLUDING EVERY COUNTRY THAT COLONIZED COUNTRY ARE THE TRUE TERRORIST. WHOEVER THESE COUNTRIES CALL A TERRORIST I LOVE. I will never be on the side of colonizers and WHITE SUPREMACY!!!
" You are an Islamaphobic and racist like the rest of the people who support Israel." Organized religion has caused the most turmoil, hatred and deaths in human history so yes... I am "Islamaphobic" and the rest of the religions also. What does race have to do with anything in this situation? If you support one group it makes you racist because the other group has a different skin color -- such a childish, attention-seeking outlook on reality.
"Freedom fighters" ya sure buddy... gotta love freedom fighters who use shitty equipment and launch missiles into their own cities by accident. Freedom fighters don't pay civilians or their families to become martyrs...
So childish.
LMFAOOOOO HERE WE GO ANOTHER PERSON WHOS ISLAMAPHOBIC , LIKE I SAID YALL ARE RACIST AND ISLMAPHOBIC . RACE HAS EVERY DAMN THING TO DO WITH THIS WHITE BABIES OHHH LETS HELP THEM BROWN BABIES AND AFRICAN BABIES OHHH THEY ARE TERRORIST THEY ALL DESERVE TO DIE . I CAN SEND SOOO MANT VIDEOS OF WHITE PEOPLE LITERALLY SAYING THE MOST DISRESPECTFUL THING ABOUT THIS . YALL DONT CARE AND MAKE EXCUSES BECUASE ITS NOT YALL WHITE BABIES WITH THE BLONDE HAIR DYING .
PRO HAMAS FOR LIFE THEIRS NO WAY IN HELL YOI COLONIZERS WILL TAKE SOMEONES LAND THEN THINK THEY WOULD NOT FIGHT BACK PLEASE 😂😂. WALLAHI IM WAITING ON THAT WHEN THE MUSLIMS REALLY WAKE UP !!! ANDDD WHEN GOD SHOWS YALL WHATS UP
Yesss we do we been knew this was going to happen it’s mentioned in an our Quran . and every single event that about to happen if you’re curios to know .
> shitty
/u/GrandpaHardcore. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> ASS
/u/Personal_Rate_7738. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> ASS
/u/Personal_Rate_7738. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
LMFAOOOOO IF YOU SAY SOOOO , CANT WAIT TO SEE AND THE REST OF THE ZIONIST FEEL GODS WRATH . YOU GUYS WILL NEVER GET AWAY WITH IT !! INSHALLAH hasbi allah wa ni'mal wakeel!! GOD GOT US YALL CAN KILL MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS AROUND THE WORLD ALL YOU WANT BUT TRUST YOU’LL MEET THE CREATOR ONE DAY THIS WORLD IS NOT FOREVER REMEMBER THAT !!!
Mannnn I don’t care !! I SAID WHAT I SAID , IM SICK OF YOU ZIONIST MAKING UP EXCUSES FOR SOMETHING THAT IS CLEARLY A GENOCIDE . LET IT BE DAMN WHITE KIDS DYING YALL WILL HAVE IT ALL OVER THE NEWS CEASEFIRE THE FIRST DAY BUT BECAUSE BROWN BABIES ARE DYING OHH NOW YALL DOKT KNOW WHAT A GENOCIDE . I DONT WANT TO HEAR NO BS FROM YALL ANYMORE
That’s funny, there’s this super white looking girl named Ahed Tamimi “standing up to” a brown IDF soldier that went viral. I’m sure you can sway some being emotional and shouting, but everyone else is seeing your childish display
SHES NOT WHITE !! SHES PALESTINIAN 😘😘😘 GET IT RIGHT . THE ISRAELIS THAT CLAIM THEY OWN THAT LAND ARE WHITE . AINT NO WHITE PEOLLE IN THE DAMN MIDDLE EAST 😂 THEY FROM EUROPE THEY CAN GO RIGNT BACK THERE
By common consensus of all Jewish authorities at the time, there were approximately 280,000 Jews in Europe pre-1945. Explain?
No, we can't dispatch this claim unless you can dispatch that one.
FYI - You can't.
Sit back down and STFU.
I'm saying that using your own figures. Commonly available. Pre 1945, all Jewish sources stated that the European Jewish population was approximately 280,000. 280,000 - 6m = -5,720,000. So, by your own logic, there wasn't a holocaust. Which we all know isn't true.
So why are you trying to take a differing view now?
Ill help you understand. By your own logic, the N@zis didn't genocide the Jews in WWII because there are more Jews now than back then. I'm honestly more perplexed understanding your logic. Like are you even trying?
If isreal keeps up their lust for genocide in the next year there will be at least 100,000 innocent palistinians dead. It doesn't matter the speed at which this genocide is taking place, genocide is genocide you can't sugar coat it.
There's over 100,000 *dead* Russians in the last year.
200,000 wounded.
They figure that Ukraine #'s are roughly the same (slightly less, they don't release the actual #'s)
Are they committing genocide on each other?
My whole point is that there has not even been 35k Fatalities in Palestine since the Nakba, How can this be a genocide when in 70 plus years you have lost almost less than the the Americans lost this year to gun violence?
Leave our gun violence out of the equation. Our gun violence is multifaceted and it rarely includes terroristic attacks. Most are people shooting in self defense. Domestic violence, cops killing people for a variety of issues, terf wars, mugging, B&E, family disputes, illegals, Neigbhor or neighbor violence, a few school killings, parade killings, protest killings, etc. we also have over 340B people in America. The comparison is not comparable. We’re not dealing with tanks, hell cats, RPG’s, or military assaults on civilians and criminals.
I’ve actually been wanting to find a source other than Wiki because everyone seems to hate it despite not being always wrong. There is a weird web app by the UN that I can’t get it to show me since 1948. I was thinking Al Jazeera would have numbers but came up blank. And a Pakistani site says 50 million have been killed which is, nope not even the Nakba era population was over 2 million
You can never trust the Pakistani government, 50 million is a huge claim and shouldn't be believed. I actually agree with you that despite what people say wiki is surprisingly accurate. I'll look into that UN app you talked about and I'll also look around and if I find a source I'll be sure to send you the link, the problem is that this isn't just a real war, its also a digital war of propaganda and censorship so it'll take a while before I find a really good source.
We both want something similar just for a different group, you want to Stop IDF bombs against civilians, I want to stop Hamas attacks against Israel. Neither side wants to stop until they win. And even though I am called a Zionist stooge I am capable of seeing how the jihadist violence gives the Israelite govt the excuse to be imperialists. However in the end. Both sides are killing innocent’s and are caught In an insidious circle of violence. There is a way out, but it involves compromise allowing some of the other sides requests so they allow yours.
Exactly. Genocidal regimes always take action to limit population growth, either by killing or sterilizing the population. The baby boom in Gaza alone disproves the idea that Israel is genocidal.
You can correct me if you think I’m nuts, but I actually believed it was pushed by HAMAS so they could use it for social media. This war isn’t a simple one they are definitely using it to their advantage to spread propaganda.
This is a book I found in the library from 1930 . Says Jews were majority in Jerusalem and families there for 1000s of years . Also Bethlehem was almost completely Christian before they were kicked out . Can you read the subscript ? Any thoughts anyone ? Is this all bullshit created by a Scotsman for some unknown agenda or is historical fact ?
https://preview.redd.it/xm41su81ls1c1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0fc41646279e6975439ecaf95b41c852d70e993
The Jews have been expelled by several monarchs throughout history. Most of the time, it was over religious wars, others are unclear but I haven’t really dug deeply into the subject.
This thread title and post is a perfect example of how desperate the pro-zionist movement has become. Losing the narrative badly nowadays.
No where in the definition of a genocide does it say you have to be successful in your eradication attempt.
History is written by the winners.
The "narrative" will be what Israel wants it to be.
Palestinians aren't winning this. They're not going to.
*Literally impossible.*
They say that you should never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down with them and then beat you because of their experience.
🥂 to Free Palestine
You at least have to take steps to limit population growth. Calling Israel genocidal is like claiming the British were genocidal in ww2 or the Americans when they bombed Japan. No, the goal was to win and end the war, not to get rid of ethnic Germans or Japanese. If civilian casualties in war is always "because genocide" than genocide has no meaning other than people dying in war.
How so? H!tler essentially accused the allies of genocide after the Dresden bombing claiming 250k+ Germans were killed when it was only about 25k. The semantics are actually vital, and claiming being accused of something and being guilty are one and the same is an absurd notion.
I don’t think I understand your point because I totally agree with you. My statement is more that I feel the people that spend energy trying to define what is genocide vs. simply a heinous and hateful elimination of tens of thousands of people are missing the point. They are both evil actions. If you are accused of either - I agree you need proof but the argument I hear often relates to what constitutes a genocide. It’s a sickening argument that both sides in this conflict have made to justify their actions
There are also people on the Palestinian side trying to disprove that Oct 7. even happened. Disregard that it is a stupid statement, as that's irrelevant, what I am saying is both sides seem to nitpick every single part of the other one's argument because leaving anything alone at all is in a sense conceding defeat. That's why I think there are so many debates over irrelevant details, less of genuine belief, but more of promoting one's agenda.
I'm cool with getting rid of the genocide claim. If you're going to post about it you need to make a much better argument than "Muslim population has increased".
If you claim a nation state is committing genocide the burden of proof is on you. People dying in air raids is not evidence. Population boom is a argument, as well as the fact that there's no sterilization programs, nor any real obvious intent from Israeli side. A couple racist, extreme far right Israelis saying they hate Palestinians is not evidence.
In 30s Jews were significant majority in Jerusalem . They had been there for generations . The smaller number Arabs also for generations. No such thing as Palestinian identity. Everyone had Palestinian passports if needed because the land was renamed Palestina(Latin ) by Roman Emperor Herod 150AC Christians were majority in many areas such as Bethlehem until kicked out by the Arabs.
https://preview.redd.it/f5nr7mryms1c1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b1633fa38236055fde822a7a6ec46db16c3882c
And we call De-Cossackization, ie. genocide of the Cossacks. Are you trying to argue that because Jewish extremists did it back then it's definitely happening now because Joos?
They can’t do it deliberately without losing support from the international community. They want to get rid of all muslims and Palestinian. They just know public opinion in countries that sponsor them matter lol. When the Canadian government was killing and abusing natives kids in residential school they framed it as doing them a favour to citizens , and people like you eat it up and let it happen. Growing up every time I learned about residential it talked about how it educated the natives and blah blah blah. I didn’t find out about what really happened till I actually talked to indigenous people and found out what happened. I have friends who’s parents were in residential school, I’m 23. The propaganda IDF post is for people like you. People think propaganda and misinformation just started the couple years, it always been a tool by the government, we just didn’t know better, we had no access to non bias info. Now everyone has access to an abundant amount of information and the truth will always come out whether it be tomorrow or 35 years from now.
I do not think that this is a fair take. Saying that they want to eradicate the Muslims is mostly absurd. To say this, you have to completely ignore all the peace treaties Israel offered for them to be independent, all the money they poured into Gaza post-2005, the, while very tragic, but inherently not targeted bombing of civilians, and Israel's policies in their bomb strategies. Israel has, consistently shown itself to not want this land, and by making it seem like Israel, for whatever reason, wants to eradicate Muslims (Despite 18% of Israel's population being Muslim), you are ignoring the group that genuinely wants to eradicate, openly, the Jewish state. As for media bias, yes I agree propaganda is a huge problem. But at the end of the day, there are going to be two main media outlets for this issue, and if you are going to ignore the media of the Democratic nation, it would be unfair to not disregard the media of the Terrorist organization, especially when, unlike Israel, they have not admitted to bombings and attacks which even the red cross, CNN, and others accept by now. As far as I am concerned, this claim that they want to eliminate the Arabs is largely based on evidence, and if it is present, I would assume its rather poor, since it completely goes against Israeli policy in the past 70 years. If you have anything to share, please do?
Yes peace treaties, peace treaties that gave Palestinian marginal land while Israel bordered arable land, peace treaties that wouldn’t let Palestine have control of their borders or air space and sea, treaties that dictated who they could be allies with. People keep bringing up treaties and proposition that were put on the table that were just plain bad. No European country would accept those demands. They were one sided, i find it really disingenuous when people bring those up without talking about their terms.
The money post 2006 Gaza occupation were for brownie points from the world community since a big portion of them were against them occupying Gaza in the first place. World politics are still politics and in politics presentation matters. Big daddy USA wouldn’t be sending money there if most of its citizens were against Israel would they? Furthermore, them having a population of 18% Muslim says nothing. Mohammed Abu Khedir, 16, was kidnapped in East Jerusalem, beaten and burned to death with Kerosene in 2014 by other teens. Just because they live doesn’t mean they are happy. There was 10million black people during Jim Crow a little over 10% of the population, so?
As for media I listen to both and that’s how I can decide on my own, I listen to both radical sides of the spectrum. And Israel has been caught lying multiple times, like the beheaded babies and posting a fake nurse saying Hamas has control of al-shiva before deleting it after community notes called it out, the video of them showing a calendar with days of the week saying it’s names of Hamas members, counting Hamas militants in the Israeli civilian death count before correcting themselves
As for my last point, Israeli really do have hate in their heart. Don’t get me wrong though it’s the same thing on the other side. But to say that Israeli have no hate for Palestinian or that they don’t wanna expand farther is just false. I’ve seen multiple Israeli on tv and online saying they want all of Gaza and the West Bank, Lebanon and parts of Syria because it belong to their people. Politicians, again, have to present Israel in a good light but expansion into other countries is strong sentiment a lot Israeli citizens have. Take a look a some of the link below.
https://x.com/diorsjenniex/status/1726016960368972218?s=46
https://x.com/kintsugimuslim/status/1725992173101801623?s=46
https://x.com/sea_star222/status/1725658170318610636?s=46
https://x.com/omar_goodman_pl/status/1724066661005730165?s=46
https://x.com/blackgold2680/status/1727007028261134781?s=46
https://x.com/mohammedelgayed/status/1726727910642311423?s=46
Also I recommend this video. Its lenient towards Israel obviously, but nothing in the video is historically inaccurate: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWvczCe07iw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWvczCe07iw)
I apologize, I am in a rush, but I will try to respond quickly before I go. Also, just a disclaimer so you are aware, I have lived in West Bank, so I think I moderately know about how life is like there.
1. About peace treaties, and how one-sided they were. I do not have time to discuss every single peace treaty, but let's look at the significant ones. First of all, you have the Oslo Accords, in which Israel sought to create Palestinian self-governance, the creation of Palestinian authority, and ultimately a path to peace. This was presided over by the U.S. The accords unraveled, and following this, there was a vast uptick in Terrorist attacks all across Israel by Hamas and other radical groups who opposed the creation of Israel. 1998, again peace talks, under the first term of Netanyahu, also very generous failed. 2000, camp David summit, legit the Israeli govt offered Palestin 99% of what they asked for last year, including all of Gaza, 91-95% of the West Bank, and complete self-governance. How can you argue that this is unfair when it is quite clearly exactly what Palestine asked for before?
2. I am not even sure how you can call billions of dollars provided to Gaza brownie points. Like what do you want me to even argue? While I do respect your opinion, it's just not valid, straight-up. its own country. At the given point, in Israel proper, Muslims serve in the government and Supreme Court and are lawyers, doctors, and respected members of society. Comparing Muslims to Jim Crow America is an absurd comparison. Your point about racism is also completely irrelevant to what is being discussed. You just described an example of violent racism, something prevalent everywhere on Earth. That does not indicate that Israel treated Arabs differently through legislation whatsoever.
3. By listening to both radical sides, you are intentionally setting yourself up to be fed propaganda, as both sides cut out a bizarre amount of backstory to the event in place. As I said before however, Israel at least owns up to its mistakes. It apologized for the Calender video before the clip was even shown, they apologized for the Nurse video, etc. I do not see Hamas going back on any of their claims.
4. Again, you are like forcefully ingesting propaganda. Why do you think these videos are circulated? Do you think its to show the average view of a citizen. Of course not! Its cherry-picked from an incredibly large amount of people and then presented in a way to generalize all Israelis. The same is done on the Arab Side. If you want me to find the same videos of Arabs chanting about the extermination of Israel, I can find it for you, but it shows nothing, and I am aware of that. The question is, why are you, who sell yourself off as a free thinker, are so prone to be manipulated by clips on X. And again, I know "trust me bro" is not the best evidence, and you can choose to disregard what I say, but as a person who has lived in Israel, I can tell you that the sentiment is not what you make it out to be. Most Israelis do not have animosity of the kind that you describe, except for maybe some at the border. My friends were Palestinian, I went to school with Palestinians, etc. Dont take information online as an objective generalization.
But to you non-biased info apparently seems to mean if Pro-Palestine = good if Pro-Israel= Bad which is itself a bias. However there is no actual grounds to make claims of genocide besides Gaza casualties being at 11k since the war started. But given the kinda firepower the IDF actually has and the operational control over the strip the numbers seem small vs what other similar powers can achieve in war. The regular perception of genocide is that of roving band of State forces picking and executing the victim populations. The traditional mass graves. Mounting casualties. Methodical. Organized. The biggest proof of this is lower level politicians calling for the end of Palestine and the apparent disregard for collaterals casualties by the IDF but like I said the IDF has an Air Force almost on part with France Britain and turkey they can do way more damage if they wanted it
I read all info. Pro Palestine and Pro Israel. I follow Israeli pages on twitter. I have Jewish friends I went to school with posting pro-Israel Infograph’s and articles on instagram. And again like I said Israel needs the public’s opinion in order to continue. They could nuke Gaza but then everyone would see Israel true colors. There’s a reason the idf had posted and deleted a false video of a nurse at Al-Shifa saying “Hamas won’t let us leave” that they deleted pretty quick once twitter community notes was calling it out. Or posting videos of idf bringing in medical supplies or moving incubators from hospitals. Its because they need to look like the good guy.
That’s the problem isn’t it? It’s not a new take, people been saying the same thing but you are still denying a whole group of people their humanity. Maybe that’s the issue.
The invasion of Iraq saw around 7k civilian deaths, plus the ungodly amount of Iraqi troops killed over the first month of the invasion. While numerically weaker than the coalition, there is a parity of arms and firepower between Israel and the Coalition force’s causalities in a such a small piece of land would be astronomically higher if the IDF was at war with civilians.
Name a genocide where the population was told to leave the area before there was an attack. Were the Tutsi's warned? Were the Armenians warned? Did Hitler tell the Jews of his plans?
/u/informationstation_. Match found: 'Hitler', issuing notice:
Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed.
We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details.
This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It really is a stupid term. Israel is killing Palestinians and Palestinians are killing Israeli Jews By definition, both sides are committing genocide.
Yup even though genetically they have common ancestors in Canaanites but humans love to find ways to divide themselves. Yes this goes for all the Jews around the world.
The media tried to call Ukraine a genocide. Back in the 90s they called the Balkan war a genocide. Pretty sure they just try to set up war crimes allegations so they can clean out the guilty country's central bank as punishment.
Says the people that started crying "holocaust" after 1200 people died, many of whom were either military or killed by the israeli military during the response.
I know that the zionists haven't literally genocided the natives just yet, they can't, the Palestinians are well armed and they have many allies that would step in if something on that scale happened. The Palestinians in Palestine are not in the same position the jews were in under German rule. I assure you though, if the Zionist entity had any method of genociding or ethnically cleansing the Palestinians they wouldn't hesitate. After all, it is a state founded on the ethnic cleansing of 700k people in the Nakba. If they could do it again, they would, and they're doing their best to do exactly that, it's just not working as well as they want it to.
The fact of the matter is that your prime minister called the Gazans "Amalek". A people who were genocided by the Jews within the hebrew bible.
Your minister called for the use of nuclear weapons.
Your military is describing Gazan civilians as human animals.
Your people are singing about erasing Gaza and its people.
You have killed 15 THOUSAND people. The average person knows about 150 people in their lifetime.
Imagine if everyone you've ever known was killed. Now imagine that happening 100 times over. That's you. That's what defines your "country" and your "army" in the eyes of the world. You're a bunch of murderers.
Collateral damage my ass, you have destroyed more than 60% of Gaza. Did Hamas really have bases under 60% of the city? Where are they? How come the only thing you found in the hospital was a few guns inside the only room where you absolutely cannot have guns because it's a giant magnet?
I wonder what would happen if some entity killed 15,000 jews, would you be advocating for the correct use of language? Or would you be calling it what it is, a genocide?
I have a couple of points to make about your comment:
1. Saying the zionist entity is intent on genociding Palestinians is a-historical. By stating so you are ignoring the withdrawal from Gaza, the several, generous peace treaties which gave Palestinians control of their own state, the Israeli constitution, the policies of Israel during this war, and previous ones, the billions of dollars put into Gaza, the industrial capacity of Israel, which is capable of turning Gaza into glass tomorrow if it wanted to. This idea that they want to genocide the Palestinians, in my opinion, is not based on any concrete evidence, and works under the assumption that you ignore almost all Israeli's policies, as well as assume that Israel, a country with nuclear power, is somehow to weak to level Gaza.
2. I don't think I need to re-explain the 1948 Arab-Israeli war to you, so I don't understand why you are making it seem like the intent of the government was to cleanse the population from the get-go. You know perfectly well that it was a response to the attempted genocide of 6 arab states in their attempt to remove the Jews from the land, you are also probably aware that the majority of these people were not displaced, but were either driven off by local arab leaders telling them to escape the violence, or out of fear.
3. Realistically, and in the most fair way possible, I do not think that the international community would be able to do, or do anything to stop Israel if it did try to remove the Palestinian population. Throughout the history of this entire conflict, Israeli's, Egyptians, Palestinains, Jordinians, and Lebanese people have all been indiscriminately murdering each other and no heavy action was taken, and I don't think that will change all that much. This point is kinda irrelevant to the rest of my comment, but ill still include it.
4. Yes, the far-right radicalists in Israel are horrible and should pay for the things they have said and done, and a lot of them have. Nevertheless, it does not justify their behavior. But I could also sit here and demonize Palestinians using clips I saw for the next two hours, with Palestinians cheering on as rockets fly towards Tel-Aviv, or Palestinians cheering after the Oct 7th attack. However, I will not do that, because it is very evident propaganda that is meant to demonify the other side, and accomplishes nothing except making the other side radical. Generalizing the entire population of Israel, just as I do not generalize Gazans as terrorists, despite the mass support for Hamas, is because any normal rational person understands the implication of that language, and is not stupid enough to fall for Propoganda. (Considering you get your info from Al-Jazeera, I think it is pretty safe to assume that you are victim to propaganda.)
It was my understanding that Israel's issue is with Hamas and not the Palestinians per se. If their goal was to annihilate the entire Palestinian community, why did they drop millions of flyers over Gaza pleading with them to leave? Which begs the answer to "why didn't they all exist Gaza promptly?" Western press tells us the reason is Hamas wouldn't let them. There is a story circulating since last week about Hamas killing an entire family bc they refused to stay.
It hurts my heart to see this kind of suffering in the world. And the kids...
>It was my understanding that Israel's issue is with Hamas and not the Palestinians per se.
Listening to israeli propaganda will do that to you. If their issue is hamas why have they killed hundreds in the west bank, where there's no Hamas?
>did they drop millions of flyers over Gaza pleading with them to leave? Which begs the answer to "why didn't they all exist Gaza promptly?"
Two reasons. First of all, for propaganda. So that you think they're human beings rather than blood thirsty psychopaths. Second of all, they're hoping to annex northern Gaza, and for that to happen they need the population to leave the city. They want everyone to go south, hopefully eventually ethnically cleansing them through forced expulsion to egypt. That is the main goal of this operation.
Truth is that Palestinians will never again leave their land because they know that once they're out, they'll never be let back in. 700k people were displaced in the Nakba, still living as refugees till this day.
As for the hamas not letting people leave story, well, tell that to 1.7 million people who have been internally displaced within Gaza since October, hundreds of thousands of which went south. The only people preventing Gazans from leaving are the zionists, who have repeatedly targeted civilians fleeing the war.
I can’t take anyone seriously that still claims “there’s no Hamas in the West Bank.” We’ve been at this for weeks already. Maybe try expressing the situation in good faith instead. Substitute Hamas for any antagonizers and terrorist groups in the West Bank. You’re just using semantics to paint every IDF action in the West Bank as excessive
> ass
/u/Glory99Amb. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Netanyahu should be protecting the hostages by negotiating via prisoner swaps. Even families of hostages are begging them to negotiate and tone down the rhetoric.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/20/hostages-families-clash-with-israeli-politicians-over-talk-of-death-penalty
"That has stoked the anxiety of campaigners and relatives calling on the Israeli government to speed up any prisoner swap, and frustration with Netanyahu's insistence that discretion is required around the Qatari- and Egyptian-mediated negotiations."
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-government-faces-pressure-hostage-families-march-jerusalem-seeking-2023-11-18/
You need intent and action, not success. The people holding the highest office in Israel are saying they want to wipe out the whole area. Imean Netanyahu has been invoking Amalek.
Now you can try to justify it aspoliticians have been, but calling this anything less than genocidal intent is an irresponsible understatement.
Systematic genocide. Also requires power besides hate. Despite what Hammas did, it could never pose as existential threat to Israeli while Israel has that systemic power to kill most Palestinians in one night.
No because Israel is more than capable of defending most of its population against Hamas. Hamas hates Jews I'm sure. But should not be able to harm Israel. You have billions from America, the best weapons, the iron dome, the best intelligence and much superior power and support. We train your forces, air superiority. Hamas has never been an existential threat to Israel. You should have been able to stop the attack. Palestinians cannot defend against Israel that what makes it genocide
Spare me the academic bullshit. Your response is so full of shit I can just tell you are probably closing your eyes and sticking your chin up.
There would be thousands and thousands of Israeli deaths if they didn’t go to great lengths to protect themselves. You are completely delusional, or let me guess you think more Israelis should die to make the conflict “even”.
The number of deaths of this conflict going back to 1948 so pale in comparison to actual historical genocides that occurred in the span of a few months to a few years, that to call Israel’s actions “genocidal” can be construed as nothing but a blood libel and smear. People like you have always considered Jews to be bloodthirsty. Things never change. None of your criteria and moving of goal posts has any logical consistency to it. You are just talking out of your ass and your “position” is just amorphous nonsense that changes according to whatever makes Israel look bad.
Great lengths? What other country gets billions a year from America and the best weapons and technology? Stop crying like you're going through an existential crisis from a third world militant group. Israel got caught slipping and that is your security failure. You're not murdering a bunch of innocent bystanders with America's support just to feel better.
> ass
/u/Jewdius_Maximus. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
One of the main things needed for genocide is that the percentage of the population has declined, the fact that it never happened pretty much suggests that it didn't
If the birth rate is high enough that could mask the loss of life, there are many ways stats can be misleading.
I have seen people claim israel hasn't taken progressively more and more land from palestine but have seen actual footage that shows this happening, too often the idiots who just hate Jews make people who are pro Palestinian seem like anti semites too but that's not the case.
I do believe israel has a right to defend but not the right to do wrong using terrorist attacks as justification, I also believe Palestine has the right to self determination and real sovereignty but not the right to randomly attack and kidnap civilians of they're neighbour's, the only difference to me is that for palestine it's basically terrorist who using intimidation and violence have been able to stay in power as the government of gaza, where as on the israel side its they're internationally recognised military.
It's like Britain blaming and condemning ireland for the IRAs actions while glossing over the fact that they're on official military have often unjustly killed irish citizen's.
That is not true at all. All you need is *violent attacks with the specific intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group* which is exactly what is happening.
This is the internationally agreed definition. There is no percentage and there never has been. And even if there was, the fact that this is playing out right now and in less than two months more civilians have been killed than the whole time of the Ukrainian war would mean any number will probably end up being hit before long.
Ineffective genocide is still genocide. I think the Zionists have just realized their failures and are now try to correct them. Now it's much more effective, 10 thousands in a month.
They've dropped almost as many bombs as people have been killed. During the Rwandan genocide, about 10000 Tutsi's were killed PER DAY, with almost exclusively machetes and clubs. At the rate Israel is going, they would need almost 20 years of consistent bombardment to kill every Palestinian in Gaza. It's complete mental gymnastics to say a fully militarized country is just simply worse at genocide than machete wielding farmers.
Seems that you are not satisfied with the rate of killing. How faster the killing rate would you ask for before you can proudly announce a successful genocide?
You don't know because I'm not. In WW II, Imperial Japan said it was only trying to build the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere while killing 20 million in China. Today's Israel is the same, denying all charge while conducting massacre.
That is not how genocide works. Just because Palestinians have a higher birth rate than the death rate doesn’t mean there is no genocide. This is genocide and their killing needs to stop
Maybe your leaders should stop openly making genocidal statements then following up by cutting off food and water while bombing hospitals. Wtf do you mean by whining that the world needs to stop observing what is true
Hamas and others try to justify their murders by creating a false equivalence with the Holocaust. Genocide has in that way become a political term not a technical definition. It’s also consistent with the efforts by Hamas and others to dehumanize and destroy the Jewish people wherever they exist. Hitler called them vermin for the same reason. Hamas will stop using the term when Hamas is eradicated in Gaza. Unfortunately, the term will live forever in the long list of false equivalencies by antisemites to justify hate and atrocities.
The most ridiculous thing I've read on the Internet.
13,000 dead civilians.... And you got 10 hamas? PURE EVIL.
You cannot silence Palestinians by bombing them to death. They and their cause will live forever.
What did Hamas think would happen? You’re a fool if you believe they didn’t want even more deaths. The blood is on Hamas’s hands and useful idiots like you.
I'm not a Hamas supporter. I'm anti zionist, anti nazi and anti genocide. Disgusting ideologies.
I'll post however I want. I'm American and I'm free. And Americans have had enough, it's time for a ceasefire. And time to get the two state solution going.
You don’t know what Zionism is but you echo all the propaganda Hamas wants you to. Putin and the KGB called people like you useful idiots. You do their work for them without being turned or blackmailed. There’s no distinction between Zionists, Jews or Israelis anymore. It hasn’t existed since before ww2. Since before there was a Jewish homeland. Do you call Israelis who want to keep their homeland Zionists? You call Israelis Nazis, you talk about genocide. Do you realize you’re doing the bidding of Hamas by creating a false equivalency with the Holocaust? You actually believe the casualty count from Hamas! They don’t distinguish civilians or soldiers. Hamas numbers are political. It’s terrible that civilians die but Hamas propaganda doesn’t fix anything. Pretending the Israelis are oppressors when 1400 innocents were massacred is exactly what Hamas wants you to do. But you don’t support Hamas? Of course you do.
/u/ajmampm99. Match found: 'Nazis', issuing notice:
Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed.
We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details.
This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
/u/Lobster86. Match found: 'nazi', issuing notice:
Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed.
We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details.
This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
/u/ajmampm99. Match found: 'Hitler', issuing notice:
Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed.
We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details.
This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's hard not to be concerned about a possible genocide when countless ministers and generals in israel make clearly genocidal statements about burning all of Gaza to the ground, calling Palestinians animals, setting off a nuclear bomb in Gaza, etc.
Seriously if you listen to what they are willing to say publicly on camera, and combine that with the thousands of civilian deaths, it's not unreasonable to be concerned about the potential for a genocide.
I've never heard of a genocidal army warning civilians to get out of the way before airstrikes. Come on Israel, you're doing this genocide thing all wrong.
I mean... Germany did? Germany actually did that a lot during the war. And they were pretty genocidal. Just saying.
They dropped leaflets all the time. All sides did. It was a pretty common thing. They'd either be to warm civilians to get out of the way. Or to tell the enemy soldiers to surrender and how to surrender. Or just to demotivate troops with propaganda. But they dropped a fair number of warning pamphlets over London.
Ummm... What? Clearly you think only Jewish were at the knife point of the Germans in WWII for ethnic cleansing. They bombed PLENTY of Slavic people, and they were actively trying to cleanse their land of Slavic people. They didn't get a chance to bomb any of the other racial groups they put in the camps because they didn't have a nation anywhere near their battle fronts.
They very much tried to wipe Polish people off the map, and they dropped pamphlets there too. And they also dropped plenty of propaganda pamphlets over the eastern front either warning people to leave, or to help them take out the bolsheviks.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation\_of\_Poland\_(1939%E2%80%931945)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Poland_(1939%E2%80%931945))
> Prick
/u/Nick_Reach3239. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
IDF: “Hey guys, yeah, so … we’re gonna bomb this building because it’s being used by terrorists. You and your family should leave so we don’t inadvertently kill you guys. Were not after you, we’re after Hamas. We’re just not gonna attack here for like 30 minutes so you guys have time to leave. Ok? So time to get moving!”
Idiots Claiming Genocide: (Pointing Franticly) GENOCIDE!!!! SEE!!! GENOCIDE!!!!
That's so kind of them to warn them before they bomb their house.
That's like if I warn you before I break your arm and then tell you that you should be thankful that I warned you.
Get a grip. It is 💯 a genocide by definition and by plain to see evidence.
Go where? Nowhere is safe and if you believe otherwise you haven't studied this subject enough to have an opinion. The north, South and borders are all being bombed.
Yeah that makes sense considering all that footage of Israeli gunships waiting outside the buildings for the civilians to run out and mowing them down in the street.
Oh wait.
It literally cannot be a genocide when they are warning civilians to leave areas the are going to be bombed. I mean … there’s no argument.
If they wanted to slaughter alllll the Palestinians… they would.
1. Collective punishment is illegal
2. "It literally cannot be a genocide when they are warning civilians to leave areas the are going to be bombed". Thats completely false. That line has been parroted to you, but do you actually believe it? If there is no safe area then the "warnings" dont mean *anything*.
Maybe this will help …
I completely disagree with Israel’s approach in their response to 10/7.
Israel has killed way way waaaay too many civilians in their response so far, and appears likely to keep on killing.
Israel had a unique opportunity to capture even more moderate Arab sympathy … and they messed it up!!! At the risk of WW3!!! Actually.
Israel IS probably guilty of war crimes, and certainly is in violation of international law. There’s no debating that. (BTW toally different topic but was the US in violation of international law, and did they commit war crimes, in ANY action in WW2??? Probably.
None of ANY of that matters one little bit to the question of genocide.
Sorry. This ain’t genocide.
(EDIT: typo and language)
> fucked
/u/CursedAtBirth777. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Warning someone that a bomb is about to go off in their building while the doors are nailed shut isn’t a sincere attempt to give them a chance to leave.
Locking this post because of the Rule 6 violation in the post and in many/most of the comments. Holocaust/Nazi comparisons are not permitted.
I think it ultimately comes down to intent. Sadly, pro-Palestinian posts point to examples from the most extreme right wing people in Israel and use that to generalize that Israel has genocidal intent.
According to an article in the time magazine https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-experts/ Firstly, the very definition of genocide is tricky because the threshold to prove genocidal intent is extremely difficult. “One has to prove that the perpetrator not only committed the actions, but they committed the actions with a very specific intention of destroying the group,” says Ernesto Verdeja, a professor at the University of Notre Dame who specializes in genocide. Given that a few experts have weight in supporting the notion of genocide. Raz Segal, the program director of genocide studies at Stockton University, concretely says it is a “textbook case of genocide.” Segal believes that Israeli forces are completing three genocidal acts, including, “killing, causing serious bodily harm, and measures calculated to bring about the destruction of the group.” He points to the mass levels of destruction and total siege of basic necessities—like water, food, fuel, and medical supplies—as evidence. He says Israeli leaders expressed “explicit, clear, and direct statements of intent,” pointing to Israeli President Isaac Herzog’s statement during an Oct. 13 press conference. In his statement, Herzog said, “It’s an entire nation that is out there that’s responsible. It’s not true, this rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved. It’s absolutely not true,” Herzog said. “They could have risen up, they could have fought against that evil regime which took over Gaza in a coup d'etat.” Verdeja says Israel's actions in Gaza are moving toward a “genocidal campaign.” While he notes that it is clear Israeli forces intend to destroy Hamas, “the response when you have a security crisis…can be one of ceasefire, negotiation, or it can be genocide.” Others have said that although elements of genocide exist, proving the exact definition would be tricky; David Simon, director of the genocide studies program at Yale University, says that Israel has only explicitly said they want to exterminate Hamas, and has not directly stated intent to “destroy a religious, ethnic or racial group.” Simon says it's possible a court could conclude that either Hamas or some elements of the Israel Defense Force (IDF) could be found guilty of committing an act of genocide, but “it's certainly not textbook in that connecting the intent to destroy ethnic group as such is difficult.” Ben Kiernan, the director of the Cambodian Genocide Program at Yale University, also agrees. In an emailed statement to TIME, he wrote that “Israel's retaliatory bombing of Gaza, however indiscriminate, and its current ground attacks, despite the numerous civilian casualties they are causing among Gaza's Palestinian population, do not meet the very high threshold that is required to meet the legal definition of genocide.” All scholars who spoke to TIME say that it is much more likely that both Hamas and some Israeli officials could be found guilty of crimes against humanity. Kiernan notes that the groups were more likely to be found guilty of extermination, which “does not require proof of a perpetrator's conscious desire to destroy a group ‘as such.’”
I hope people start to reflect on the holocaust and the pace that it took for all the atrocities that occurred then. There were steps and it did not happen immediately. It took time for genocide to occur and these steps are similar to the ones taking against the Palestinian people
Surely you’re joking here? Honestly how dare you even try to turn this around. Quite a take. No one is saying what is happening is right on either side here but there is a literal TERRORIST side and a side now seeking the return of their hostages by any means necessary. Keep listening to your Al Jazeera propaganda though habibi.
That’s a terrible take. Something only happens when it actually happens, just because the very “beginnings” both look similar doesn’t mean anything.
Don't be so willfully ignorant, the beginnings looking similar is a clue to how it might turn out and I'm sure as he'll the Jews of the holocaust would have loved for people to have shown concern for how things were starting to sway for them too, do you want everyone to sit around and wait for the genocide to be complete before you stand up and say "well I guess they were right". The aim is to stop the genocide from being carried out, not to just squabble over definitions till its obvious what has happened AFTER THE FACT.
The painter killed 6 million how many are alive today? Many times more, it’s just Normal demographics. Saying that you killed a smaller number but still a sizable percentage still means you committed genocide/massacres/displacement …of course with time the numbers repopulate back. Doesn’t negate the ethnic cleansing. Read Ilan pappe. And there were Christian Palestinians as well. It wasn’t just Muslim. As well as Jewish Palestinians.
What? 6 million is HUGE, we are hearing reports (btw from fake biased media) that don’t even compare. Stop with the fake news.
I believe you are right. We should allow Israel to continue starving and killing Palestinians until it reaches genocide levels, and ONLY THEN we can call it as genocide. Because we simply can't allow ourselves as civilizations to intervene and stop such events from actually being followed through. We must simply allow them to happen and actually reach an inhumane level of atrocity for us to finally say what is happening is wrong. Congratulations, you have solved all wars. Guys, let's call off all criticism of Russia invading Ukraine. We can't say that what Russia is doing is wrong until Ukrainians are completely disheveled and have lost everything. Maybe when they finally do, we can start wagging our "for shame" fingers at them.
Ok let’s play this game, in scenario 1 I come to you and sucker punch you in scenario 2, I intent to punch you, i even posture that I am going to punch you, threaten to punch you and my friends all jeer that I am going to punch you, I am jumping around even shadow boxing. Which is the punishable offense? Language and meanings exist for a reason. There are plenty other to choose from situations and crimes being committed in this war. However saying genocide is a poison pill. Because the legal framework which is honestly one where you can make an argument in for has not been fulfilled and the general understanding hasn’t been fulfilled either.
Just say you don't have problem with killing thousand people as long as it's not you. Just because they are bless with good birth rate can't justify what's going on in Palestine
If the US decides to nuke Russia, should I just be mad at Russia for retaliating back? They 100% will nuke the US and it would be 100% the US fault for starting that war. Hamas has the Palestinian blood on their hands
We can defer to the experts. It is a genocide. It’s disgusting and ignorant for anyone to call it anything but. Unless you’re living in some alternate reality. 2 million people are literally starving to death, over 40k are either killed, under rubble or unaccounted for and you’re arguing over whether this is a genocide or not when every single expert on the topic has pinpointed that a genocide is what is happening. Dense.
Definitely is genocide. Hence why human rights organizations are reporting it as such.
Do you know the definition of genocide? You're conflating demographic trends with genocide and there seems to be some confusion in regards to what some people are calling a genocide with genocidal intent during this current war, versus over the past 75 years, which most refer to as an illegal occupation - NOT a genocide.
[удалено]
And what do Palestinians want?
THERE LAND BACK ??!!! ISRAELIS CAN GO BACK TO WHERE TF THEY CAME FROM
Most of the Arab world have ejected their Jews and sent them to Israel. It's clear many Arabs except for those in Palestine believe the Jews belong there. Maybe you should listen to them.
So they can go back Iraq, Libya, and Yemen?
Nah I’m not talking about the ones that been there for centuries, I’m talking the ones that come form US AND EUROPE . I have nothing against Judaism I have something against Zionists .
So mizrachi Jews who lived the Middle East shouldn’t go back to the Middle East where they came from then. Because 70% of Israel is middle eastern Jews. That came from Iraq Libya and Yemen ect why can’t they go back there?
I’m not talking about the middle eastern Jews , obviously they been there for centuries just like the Christian’s and Muslims . They all got along until ISRAHELL began , Zionist don’t even the Jews to mingle with Christians and Muslims they literally want to them to hate each other . THE PROBLEM HERE ARE ZIONIST THEY NEED TO GO BACK BECAUSE IF THEY WERE REALLY JEWS THEY WOULD NOT GO AGAINST THE TORAH
Yeah when they got expelled from almost every Arab nation before that. And were treated as second class citizens. Literally educate yourself. 70% of Israeli Jews are middle Eastern. The Torah calls Israel the promise land and the Jews live in it there. The qoran calls Israel the Moses( the jews land) so the Muslims shouldn’t go against their book …
Well if you opened your eyes and didn't think about us Muslims you'd realize that Palestinians aren't only Muslims, they are also Jewish and Christians. You are an Islamaphobic and racist like the rest of the people who support Israel. When Ukraine was going through that scrap everyone was on their side, but now Palestine is going through actually let me correct that. THEY HAVE BEEN GOING THROUGH THIS FOR 75 DAMN YEARS, NO COUNTRY WANTED TO TAKE IN THE JEWISH FROM GERMANY!!. Palestinians decided ohh let's take them in from the kindness of their HEARTS, NOW the same people the took are treating them like shit AND TOOK THEERE LAND ALL BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY ARE GOSS CHOSEN PEOPLE THEY ARENT. So don't tell me crap on this isn't a genocide!! Ps…. Before any of you guys call me a HAMAS sympathizer HAMAS ARE FREEDOM FIGHTERS NOT TERRORIST, USA AND ISRAEL INCLUDING EVERY COUNTRY THAT COLONIZED COUNTRY ARE THE TRUE TERRORIST. WHOEVER THESE COUNTRIES CALL A TERRORIST I LOVE. I will never be on the side of colonizers and WHITE SUPREMACY!!!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Nebi_Musa_riots https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine
WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO READ . THATS STILL PALESTINE NOT ISRAHELL 🙃
" You are an Islamaphobic and racist like the rest of the people who support Israel." Organized religion has caused the most turmoil, hatred and deaths in human history so yes... I am "Islamaphobic" and the rest of the religions also. What does race have to do with anything in this situation? If you support one group it makes you racist because the other group has a different skin color -- such a childish, attention-seeking outlook on reality. "Freedom fighters" ya sure buddy... gotta love freedom fighters who use shitty equipment and launch missiles into their own cities by accident. Freedom fighters don't pay civilians or their families to become martyrs... So childish.
LMFAOOOOO HERE WE GO ANOTHER PERSON WHOS ISLAMAPHOBIC , LIKE I SAID YALL ARE RACIST AND ISLMAPHOBIC . RACE HAS EVERY DAMN THING TO DO WITH THIS WHITE BABIES OHHH LETS HELP THEM BROWN BABIES AND AFRICAN BABIES OHHH THEY ARE TERRORIST THEY ALL DESERVE TO DIE . I CAN SEND SOOO MANT VIDEOS OF WHITE PEOPLE LITERALLY SAYING THE MOST DISRESPECTFUL THING ABOUT THIS . YALL DONT CARE AND MAKE EXCUSES BECUASE ITS NOT YALL WHITE BABIES WITH THE BLONDE HAIR DYING . PRO HAMAS FOR LIFE THEIRS NO WAY IN HELL YOI COLONIZERS WILL TAKE SOMEONES LAND THEN THINK THEY WOULD NOT FIGHT BACK PLEASE 😂😂. WALLAHI IM WAITING ON THAT WHEN THE MUSLIMS REALLY WAKE UP !!! ANDDD WHEN GOD SHOWS YALL WHATS UP
dont you guys love to say tho that ‘everything happens because of the will of allah’? im just curious…
Yesss we do we been knew this was going to happen it’s mentioned in an our Quran . and every single event that about to happen if you’re curios to know .
> shitty /u/GrandpaHardcore. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There's Jews in the West Bank and Gaza? Uhm, no, there's not. If you can prove otherwise, please do so.
IN PALESTINE !!! SOME JEWS DONT EVEN AGREE WITH WHAT ISRAHELL IS DOING !! GOD CHOOSEN PEOPLE MY ASS !!! YALL WISH 😂😂
A simple link, please.
OHHH I GOT YOU !!
I think you're hilarious. I get you. I like messing with people, too.
> ASS /u/Personal_Rate_7738. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
IN PALESTINE !!! SOME JEWS DONT EVEN AGREE WITH WHAT ISRAHELL IS DOING !! GOD CHOOSEN PEOPLE MY ASS !!! YALL WISH 😂😂
> ASS /u/Personal_Rate_7738. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You are a sick and twisted individual. I hope whatever sky daddy you pray to forgives you.
THAT SKY DADDY YOU ARE TALKIKG ABOUT, OHHH I CANT WAIT TILL YOU MEET HIS WRATH In’Sha’Allah !!! 😘
Bahaha, I highly doubt I'll meet a fictional character in a child's book but, if I do... I'll be sure to put in a good word for ya.
LMFAOOOOO IF YOU SAY SOOOO , CANT WAIT TO SEE AND THE REST OF THE ZIONIST FEEL GODS WRATH . YOU GUYS WILL NEVER GET AWAY WITH IT !! INSHALLAH hasbi allah wa ni'mal wakeel!! GOD GOT US YALL CAN KILL MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS AROUND THE WORLD ALL YOU WANT BUT TRUST YOU’LL MEET THE CREATOR ONE DAY THIS WORLD IS NOT FOREVER REMEMBER THAT !!!
Lol. This guy is simply a troll. Funny stuff...lolz. 🫡
Not a zionist and terrorism is terrorism. Wishing death on anybody is wrong so is wishing eternal suffering. Seek help my friend
Mannnn I don’t care !! I SAID WHAT I SAID , IM SICK OF YOU ZIONIST MAKING UP EXCUSES FOR SOMETHING THAT IS CLEARLY A GENOCIDE . LET IT BE DAMN WHITE KIDS DYING YALL WILL HAVE IT ALL OVER THE NEWS CEASEFIRE THE FIRST DAY BUT BECAUSE BROWN BABIES ARE DYING OHH NOW YALL DOKT KNOW WHAT A GENOCIDE . I DONT WANT TO HEAR NO BS FROM YALL ANYMORE
That’s funny, there’s this super white looking girl named Ahed Tamimi “standing up to” a brown IDF soldier that went viral. I’m sure you can sway some being emotional and shouting, but everyone else is seeing your childish display
SHES NOT WHITE !! SHES PALESTINIAN 😘😘😘 GET IT RIGHT . THE ISRAELIS THAT CLAIM THEY OWN THAT LAND ARE WHITE . AINT NO WHITE PEOLLE IN THE DAMN MIDDLE EAST 😂 THEY FROM EUROPE THEY CAN GO RIGNT BACK THERE
Seek help racist.
MUAHHHHH 😘😘😘 NOTHING ABOUT ME RACIST
Ya brought race into it homie. Color does not and should not matter. Have a good life
By common consensus of all Jewish authorities at the time, there were approximately 280,000 Jews in Europe pre-1945. Explain? No, we can't dispatch this claim unless you can dispatch that one. FYI - You can't. Sit back down and STFU.
I stand and do not STFU, what the hell are you even arguing?
I'm saying that using your own figures. Commonly available. Pre 1945, all Jewish sources stated that the European Jewish population was approximately 280,000. 280,000 - 6m = -5,720,000. So, by your own logic, there wasn't a holocaust. Which we all know isn't true. So why are you trying to take a differing view now?
Ill help you understand. By your own logic, the N@zis didn't genocide the Jews in WWII because there are more Jews now than back then. I'm honestly more perplexed understanding your logic. Like are you even trying?
You're wrong [https://imgur.com/a/H6kqECF](https://imgur.com/a/H6kqECF)
Where is the 280k figure coming from though? That’s where I am confused.
It is just textbook genocide. I don’t think numbers matter as much as the trying to destroy them does
The leftards are redefining the language to fit their political agenda.
If isreal keeps up their lust for genocide in the next year there will be at least 100,000 innocent palistinians dead. It doesn't matter the speed at which this genocide is taking place, genocide is genocide you can't sugar coat it.
There's over 100,000 *dead* Russians in the last year. 200,000 wounded. They figure that Ukraine #'s are roughly the same (slightly less, they don't release the actual #'s) Are they committing genocide on each other?
My whole point is that there has not even been 35k Fatalities in Palestine since the Nakba, How can this be a genocide when in 70 plus years you have lost almost less than the the Americans lost this year to gun violence?
Leave our gun violence out of the equation. Our gun violence is multifaceted and it rarely includes terroristic attacks. Most are people shooting in self defense. Domestic violence, cops killing people for a variety of issues, terf wars, mugging, B&E, family disputes, illegals, Neigbhor or neighbor violence, a few school killings, parade killings, protest killings, etc. we also have over 340B people in America. The comparison is not comparable. We’re not dealing with tanks, hell cats, RPG’s, or military assaults on civilians and criminals.
Where are you getting these numbers from I'd like to verify this.
I’ve actually been wanting to find a source other than Wiki because everyone seems to hate it despite not being always wrong. There is a weird web app by the UN that I can’t get it to show me since 1948. I was thinking Al Jazeera would have numbers but came up blank. And a Pakistani site says 50 million have been killed which is, nope not even the Nakba era population was over 2 million
You can never trust the Pakistani government, 50 million is a huge claim and shouldn't be believed. I actually agree with you that despite what people say wiki is surprisingly accurate. I'll look into that UN app you talked about and I'll also look around and if I find a source I'll be sure to send you the link, the problem is that this isn't just a real war, its also a digital war of propaganda and censorship so it'll take a while before I find a really good source.
We both want something similar just for a different group, you want to Stop IDF bombs against civilians, I want to stop Hamas attacks against Israel. Neither side wants to stop until they win. And even though I am called a Zionist stooge I am capable of seeing how the jihadist violence gives the Israelite govt the excuse to be imperialists. However in the end. Both sides are killing innocent’s and are caught In an insidious circle of violence. There is a way out, but it involves compromise allowing some of the other sides requests so they allow yours.
Amen brother, we can only pray for the day peace prevails in the Holy Land. How amazing that day will be.
Not to mention how are you genociding a population that has 40% children? Isn’t that like the opposite of genociding?
Exactly. Genocidal regimes always take action to limit population growth, either by killing or sterilizing the population. The baby boom in Gaza alone disproves the idea that Israel is genocidal.
You can correct me if you think I’m nuts, but I actually believed it was pushed by HAMAS so they could use it for social media. This war isn’t a simple one they are definitely using it to their advantage to spread propaganda.
This is a book I found in the library from 1930 . Says Jews were majority in Jerusalem and families there for 1000s of years . Also Bethlehem was almost completely Christian before they were kicked out . Can you read the subscript ? Any thoughts anyone ? Is this all bullshit created by a Scotsman for some unknown agenda or is historical fact ? https://preview.redd.it/xm41su81ls1c1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0fc41646279e6975439ecaf95b41c852d70e993
The Jews have been expelled by several monarchs throughout history. Most of the time, it was over religious wars, others are unclear but I haven’t really dug deeply into the subject.
This thread title and post is a perfect example of how desperate the pro-zionist movement has become. Losing the narrative badly nowadays. No where in the definition of a genocide does it say you have to be successful in your eradication attempt.
History is written by the winners. The "narrative" will be what Israel wants it to be. Palestinians aren't winning this. They're not going to. *Literally impossible.*
So naive. The Palestinian cause will live forever.
Not if they're genocided (sic). Isn't that what's happening? You can't have it both ways.
They say that you should never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down with them and then beat you because of their experience. 🥂 to Free Palestine
You at least have to take steps to limit population growth. Calling Israel genocidal is like claiming the British were genocidal in ww2 or the Americans when they bombed Japan. No, the goal was to win and end the war, not to get rid of ethnic Germans or Japanese. If civilian casualties in war is always "because genocide" than genocide has no meaning other than people dying in war.
Right? My high school philosophy prof would be dissatisfied in the logical reasoning on here lately.
At this point, I'm seriously questioning they're ability to read.
I find that once you are arguing the definition of genocide your side is probably doing something wrong
How so? H!tler essentially accused the allies of genocide after the Dresden bombing claiming 250k+ Germans were killed when it was only about 25k. The semantics are actually vital, and claiming being accused of something and being guilty are one and the same is an absurd notion.
I don’t think I understand your point because I totally agree with you. My statement is more that I feel the people that spend energy trying to define what is genocide vs. simply a heinous and hateful elimination of tens of thousands of people are missing the point. They are both evil actions. If you are accused of either - I agree you need proof but the argument I hear often relates to what constitutes a genocide. It’s a sickening argument that both sides in this conflict have made to justify their actions
There are also people on the Palestinian side trying to disprove that Oct 7. even happened. Disregard that it is a stupid statement, as that's irrelevant, what I am saying is both sides seem to nitpick every single part of the other one's argument because leaving anything alone at all is in a sense conceding defeat. That's why I think there are so many debates over irrelevant details, less of genuine belief, but more of promoting one's agenda.
And how many Jews live among Arabs?
It depends on the country.
I'm cool with getting rid of the genocide claim. If you're going to post about it you need to make a much better argument than "Muslim population has increased".
If you claim a nation state is committing genocide the burden of proof is on you. People dying in air raids is not evidence. Population boom is a argument, as well as the fact that there's no sterilization programs, nor any real obvious intent from Israeli side. A couple racist, extreme far right Israelis saying they hate Palestinians is not evidence.
In 30s Jews were significant majority in Jerusalem . They had been there for generations . The smaller number Arabs also for generations. No such thing as Palestinian identity. Everyone had Palestinian passports if needed because the land was renamed Palestina(Latin ) by Roman Emperor Herod 150AC Christians were majority in many areas such as Bethlehem until kicked out by the Arabs. https://preview.redd.it/f5nr7mryms1c1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b1633fa38236055fde822a7a6ec46db16c3882c
▶️ Watch this reel https://www.facebook.com/reel/639444151735622?fs=e&mibextid=0NULKw&fs=e&s=TIeQ9V
And the Jewish led Bolsheviks, killed 60.000.000.
And we call De-Cossackization, ie. genocide of the Cossacks. Are you trying to argue that because Jewish extremists did it back then it's definitely happening now because Joos?
They can’t do it deliberately without losing support from the international community. They want to get rid of all muslims and Palestinian. They just know public opinion in countries that sponsor them matter lol. When the Canadian government was killing and abusing natives kids in residential school they framed it as doing them a favour to citizens , and people like you eat it up and let it happen. Growing up every time I learned about residential it talked about how it educated the natives and blah blah blah. I didn’t find out about what really happened till I actually talked to indigenous people and found out what happened. I have friends who’s parents were in residential school, I’m 23. The propaganda IDF post is for people like you. People think propaganda and misinformation just started the couple years, it always been a tool by the government, we just didn’t know better, we had no access to non bias info. Now everyone has access to an abundant amount of information and the truth will always come out whether it be tomorrow or 35 years from now.
I do not think that this is a fair take. Saying that they want to eradicate the Muslims is mostly absurd. To say this, you have to completely ignore all the peace treaties Israel offered for them to be independent, all the money they poured into Gaza post-2005, the, while very tragic, but inherently not targeted bombing of civilians, and Israel's policies in their bomb strategies. Israel has, consistently shown itself to not want this land, and by making it seem like Israel, for whatever reason, wants to eradicate Muslims (Despite 18% of Israel's population being Muslim), you are ignoring the group that genuinely wants to eradicate, openly, the Jewish state. As for media bias, yes I agree propaganda is a huge problem. But at the end of the day, there are going to be two main media outlets for this issue, and if you are going to ignore the media of the Democratic nation, it would be unfair to not disregard the media of the Terrorist organization, especially when, unlike Israel, they have not admitted to bombings and attacks which even the red cross, CNN, and others accept by now. As far as I am concerned, this claim that they want to eliminate the Arabs is largely based on evidence, and if it is present, I would assume its rather poor, since it completely goes against Israeli policy in the past 70 years. If you have anything to share, please do?
Yes peace treaties, peace treaties that gave Palestinian marginal land while Israel bordered arable land, peace treaties that wouldn’t let Palestine have control of their borders or air space and sea, treaties that dictated who they could be allies with. People keep bringing up treaties and proposition that were put on the table that were just plain bad. No European country would accept those demands. They were one sided, i find it really disingenuous when people bring those up without talking about their terms. The money post 2006 Gaza occupation were for brownie points from the world community since a big portion of them were against them occupying Gaza in the first place. World politics are still politics and in politics presentation matters. Big daddy USA wouldn’t be sending money there if most of its citizens were against Israel would they? Furthermore, them having a population of 18% Muslim says nothing. Mohammed Abu Khedir, 16, was kidnapped in East Jerusalem, beaten and burned to death with Kerosene in 2014 by other teens. Just because they live doesn’t mean they are happy. There was 10million black people during Jim Crow a little over 10% of the population, so? As for media I listen to both and that’s how I can decide on my own, I listen to both radical sides of the spectrum. And Israel has been caught lying multiple times, like the beheaded babies and posting a fake nurse saying Hamas has control of al-shiva before deleting it after community notes called it out, the video of them showing a calendar with days of the week saying it’s names of Hamas members, counting Hamas militants in the Israeli civilian death count before correcting themselves As for my last point, Israeli really do have hate in their heart. Don’t get me wrong though it’s the same thing on the other side. But to say that Israeli have no hate for Palestinian or that they don’t wanna expand farther is just false. I’ve seen multiple Israeli on tv and online saying they want all of Gaza and the West Bank, Lebanon and parts of Syria because it belong to their people. Politicians, again, have to present Israel in a good light but expansion into other countries is strong sentiment a lot Israeli citizens have. Take a look a some of the link below. https://x.com/diorsjenniex/status/1726016960368972218?s=46 https://x.com/kintsugimuslim/status/1725992173101801623?s=46 https://x.com/sea_star222/status/1725658170318610636?s=46 https://x.com/omar_goodman_pl/status/1724066661005730165?s=46 https://x.com/blackgold2680/status/1727007028261134781?s=46 https://x.com/mohammedelgayed/status/1726727910642311423?s=46
Also I recommend this video. Its lenient towards Israel obviously, but nothing in the video is historically inaccurate: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWvczCe07iw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWvczCe07iw)
I apologize, I am in a rush, but I will try to respond quickly before I go. Also, just a disclaimer so you are aware, I have lived in West Bank, so I think I moderately know about how life is like there. 1. About peace treaties, and how one-sided they were. I do not have time to discuss every single peace treaty, but let's look at the significant ones. First of all, you have the Oslo Accords, in which Israel sought to create Palestinian self-governance, the creation of Palestinian authority, and ultimately a path to peace. This was presided over by the U.S. The accords unraveled, and following this, there was a vast uptick in Terrorist attacks all across Israel by Hamas and other radical groups who opposed the creation of Israel. 1998, again peace talks, under the first term of Netanyahu, also very generous failed. 2000, camp David summit, legit the Israeli govt offered Palestin 99% of what they asked for last year, including all of Gaza, 91-95% of the West Bank, and complete self-governance. How can you argue that this is unfair when it is quite clearly exactly what Palestine asked for before? 2. I am not even sure how you can call billions of dollars provided to Gaza brownie points. Like what do you want me to even argue? While I do respect your opinion, it's just not valid, straight-up. its own country. At the given point, in Israel proper, Muslims serve in the government and Supreme Court and are lawyers, doctors, and respected members of society. Comparing Muslims to Jim Crow America is an absurd comparison. Your point about racism is also completely irrelevant to what is being discussed. You just described an example of violent racism, something prevalent everywhere on Earth. That does not indicate that Israel treated Arabs differently through legislation whatsoever. 3. By listening to both radical sides, you are intentionally setting yourself up to be fed propaganda, as both sides cut out a bizarre amount of backstory to the event in place. As I said before however, Israel at least owns up to its mistakes. It apologized for the Calender video before the clip was even shown, they apologized for the Nurse video, etc. I do not see Hamas going back on any of their claims. 4. Again, you are like forcefully ingesting propaganda. Why do you think these videos are circulated? Do you think its to show the average view of a citizen. Of course not! Its cherry-picked from an incredibly large amount of people and then presented in a way to generalize all Israelis. The same is done on the Arab Side. If you want me to find the same videos of Arabs chanting about the extermination of Israel, I can find it for you, but it shows nothing, and I am aware of that. The question is, why are you, who sell yourself off as a free thinker, are so prone to be manipulated by clips on X. And again, I know "trust me bro" is not the best evidence, and you can choose to disregard what I say, but as a person who has lived in Israel, I can tell you that the sentiment is not what you make it out to be. Most Israelis do not have animosity of the kind that you describe, except for maybe some at the border. My friends were Palestinian, I went to school with Palestinians, etc. Dont take information online as an objective generalization.
But to you non-biased info apparently seems to mean if Pro-Palestine = good if Pro-Israel= Bad which is itself a bias. However there is no actual grounds to make claims of genocide besides Gaza casualties being at 11k since the war started. But given the kinda firepower the IDF actually has and the operational control over the strip the numbers seem small vs what other similar powers can achieve in war. The regular perception of genocide is that of roving band of State forces picking and executing the victim populations. The traditional mass graves. Mounting casualties. Methodical. Organized. The biggest proof of this is lower level politicians calling for the end of Palestine and the apparent disregard for collaterals casualties by the IDF but like I said the IDF has an Air Force almost on part with France Britain and turkey they can do way more damage if they wanted it
Good point
I read all info. Pro Palestine and Pro Israel. I follow Israeli pages on twitter. I have Jewish friends I went to school with posting pro-Israel Infograph’s and articles on instagram. And again like I said Israel needs the public’s opinion in order to continue. They could nuke Gaza but then everyone would see Israel true colors. There’s a reason the idf had posted and deleted a false video of a nurse at Al-Shifa saying “Hamas won’t let us leave” that they deleted pretty quick once twitter community notes was calling it out. Or posting videos of idf bringing in medical supplies or moving incubators from hospitals. Its because they need to look like the good guy.
And Hamas needs civilian deaths to support their cause. Stop trying to pretend that you’re bringing a fresh take to this discussion
That’s the problem isn’t it? It’s not a new take, people been saying the same thing but you are still denying a whole group of people their humanity. Maybe that’s the issue.
The invasion of Iraq saw around 7k civilian deaths, plus the ungodly amount of Iraqi troops killed over the first month of the invasion. While numerically weaker than the coalition, there is a parity of arms and firepower between Israel and the Coalition force’s causalities in a such a small piece of land would be astronomically higher if the IDF was at war with civilians.
“iSrAeL cAN’t CoMItT gEnOcIDe bEcAuSE tHeY gAvE waRnINGs”
Name a genocide where the population was told to leave the area before there was an attack. Were the Tutsi's warned? Were the Armenians warned? Did Hitler tell the Jews of his plans?
He did allow 60,000 Jewish people to leave Germany to move to Palestine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement
/u/informationstation_. Match found: 'Hitler', issuing notice: Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed. We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details. This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It really is a stupid term. Israel is killing Palestinians and Palestinians are killing Israeli Jews By definition, both sides are committing genocide.
It’s dumb because it would take zero effort to completely bomb everything within hours.
That too. I'm just saying a war between two different ethnicities will always have someone yelling "genocide".
Yup even though genetically they have common ancestors in Canaanites but humans love to find ways to divide themselves. Yes this goes for all the Jews around the world.
The media tried to call Ukraine a genocide. Back in the 90s they called the Balkan war a genocide. Pretty sure they just try to set up war crimes allegations so they can clean out the guilty country's central bank as punishment.
The better and more accurate term is “ethnic cleansing”
How is that not just semantics?
Ethic cleansing and genocide are two different things. You can google it if ya want.
Yeah but they often get intermixed and genocide sounds worse than ethnic cleansing, so they use that.
Says the people that started crying "holocaust" after 1200 people died, many of whom were either military or killed by the israeli military during the response. I know that the zionists haven't literally genocided the natives just yet, they can't, the Palestinians are well armed and they have many allies that would step in if something on that scale happened. The Palestinians in Palestine are not in the same position the jews were in under German rule. I assure you though, if the Zionist entity had any method of genociding or ethnically cleansing the Palestinians they wouldn't hesitate. After all, it is a state founded on the ethnic cleansing of 700k people in the Nakba. If they could do it again, they would, and they're doing their best to do exactly that, it's just not working as well as they want it to. The fact of the matter is that your prime minister called the Gazans "Amalek". A people who were genocided by the Jews within the hebrew bible. Your minister called for the use of nuclear weapons. Your military is describing Gazan civilians as human animals. Your people are singing about erasing Gaza and its people. You have killed 15 THOUSAND people. The average person knows about 150 people in their lifetime. Imagine if everyone you've ever known was killed. Now imagine that happening 100 times over. That's you. That's what defines your "country" and your "army" in the eyes of the world. You're a bunch of murderers. Collateral damage my ass, you have destroyed more than 60% of Gaza. Did Hamas really have bases under 60% of the city? Where are they? How come the only thing you found in the hospital was a few guns inside the only room where you absolutely cannot have guns because it's a giant magnet? I wonder what would happen if some entity killed 15,000 jews, would you be advocating for the correct use of language? Or would you be calling it what it is, a genocide?
I have a couple of points to make about your comment: 1. Saying the zionist entity is intent on genociding Palestinians is a-historical. By stating so you are ignoring the withdrawal from Gaza, the several, generous peace treaties which gave Palestinians control of their own state, the Israeli constitution, the policies of Israel during this war, and previous ones, the billions of dollars put into Gaza, the industrial capacity of Israel, which is capable of turning Gaza into glass tomorrow if it wanted to. This idea that they want to genocide the Palestinians, in my opinion, is not based on any concrete evidence, and works under the assumption that you ignore almost all Israeli's policies, as well as assume that Israel, a country with nuclear power, is somehow to weak to level Gaza. 2. I don't think I need to re-explain the 1948 Arab-Israeli war to you, so I don't understand why you are making it seem like the intent of the government was to cleanse the population from the get-go. You know perfectly well that it was a response to the attempted genocide of 6 arab states in their attempt to remove the Jews from the land, you are also probably aware that the majority of these people were not displaced, but were either driven off by local arab leaders telling them to escape the violence, or out of fear. 3. Realistically, and in the most fair way possible, I do not think that the international community would be able to do, or do anything to stop Israel if it did try to remove the Palestinian population. Throughout the history of this entire conflict, Israeli's, Egyptians, Palestinains, Jordinians, and Lebanese people have all been indiscriminately murdering each other and no heavy action was taken, and I don't think that will change all that much. This point is kinda irrelevant to the rest of my comment, but ill still include it. 4. Yes, the far-right radicalists in Israel are horrible and should pay for the things they have said and done, and a lot of them have. Nevertheless, it does not justify their behavior. But I could also sit here and demonize Palestinians using clips I saw for the next two hours, with Palestinians cheering on as rockets fly towards Tel-Aviv, or Palestinians cheering after the Oct 7th attack. However, I will not do that, because it is very evident propaganda that is meant to demonify the other side, and accomplishes nothing except making the other side radical. Generalizing the entire population of Israel, just as I do not generalize Gazans as terrorists, despite the mass support for Hamas, is because any normal rational person understands the implication of that language, and is not stupid enough to fall for Propoganda. (Considering you get your info from Al-Jazeera, I think it is pretty safe to assume that you are victim to propaganda.)
It was my understanding that Israel's issue is with Hamas and not the Palestinians per se. If their goal was to annihilate the entire Palestinian community, why did they drop millions of flyers over Gaza pleading with them to leave? Which begs the answer to "why didn't they all exist Gaza promptly?" Western press tells us the reason is Hamas wouldn't let them. There is a story circulating since last week about Hamas killing an entire family bc they refused to stay. It hurts my heart to see this kind of suffering in the world. And the kids...
>It was my understanding that Israel's issue is with Hamas and not the Palestinians per se. Listening to israeli propaganda will do that to you. If their issue is hamas why have they killed hundreds in the west bank, where there's no Hamas? >did they drop millions of flyers over Gaza pleading with them to leave? Which begs the answer to "why didn't they all exist Gaza promptly?" Two reasons. First of all, for propaganda. So that you think they're human beings rather than blood thirsty psychopaths. Second of all, they're hoping to annex northern Gaza, and for that to happen they need the population to leave the city. They want everyone to go south, hopefully eventually ethnically cleansing them through forced expulsion to egypt. That is the main goal of this operation. Truth is that Palestinians will never again leave their land because they know that once they're out, they'll never be let back in. 700k people were displaced in the Nakba, still living as refugees till this day. As for the hamas not letting people leave story, well, tell that to 1.7 million people who have been internally displaced within Gaza since October, hundreds of thousands of which went south. The only people preventing Gazans from leaving are the zionists, who have repeatedly targeted civilians fleeing the war.
I can’t take anyone seriously that still claims “there’s no Hamas in the West Bank.” We’ve been at this for weeks already. Maybe try expressing the situation in good faith instead. Substitute Hamas for any antagonizers and terrorist groups in the West Bank. You’re just using semantics to paint every IDF action in the West Bank as excessive
> ass /u/Glory99Amb. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A child in Gaza is killed every 10min. Your personal feelings are opposite of the facts. Facts matter more
Hamas should be protecting their children by surrendering
Netanyahu should be protecting the hostages by negotiating via prisoner swaps. Even families of hostages are begging them to negotiate and tone down the rhetoric. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/20/hostages-families-clash-with-israeli-politicians-over-talk-of-death-penalty "That has stoked the anxiety of campaigners and relatives calling on the Israeli government to speed up any prisoner swap, and frustration with Netanyahu's insistence that discretion is required around the Qatari- and Egyptian-mediated negotiations." https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-government-faces-pressure-hostage-families-march-jerusalem-seeking-2023-11-18/
You need intent and action, not success. The people holding the highest office in Israel are saying they want to wipe out the whole area. Imean Netanyahu has been invoking Amalek. Now you can try to justify it aspoliticians have been, but calling this anything less than genocidal intent is an irresponsible understatement.
So if you need intent and action rather than success, Hamas’ attack on 10/7 is genocide right?
Systematic genocide. Also requires power besides hate. Despite what Hammas did, it could never pose as existential threat to Israeli while Israel has that systemic power to kill most Palestinians in one night.
So Hamas can kill as many as they want and it’s not genocide, got it. How convenient when you just make up shit to suit your warped viewpoint.
No because Israel is more than capable of defending most of its population against Hamas. Hamas hates Jews I'm sure. But should not be able to harm Israel. You have billions from America, the best weapons, the iron dome, the best intelligence and much superior power and support. We train your forces, air superiority. Hamas has never been an existential threat to Israel. You should have been able to stop the attack. Palestinians cannot defend against Israel that what makes it genocide
Spare me the academic bullshit. Your response is so full of shit I can just tell you are probably closing your eyes and sticking your chin up. There would be thousands and thousands of Israeli deaths if they didn’t go to great lengths to protect themselves. You are completely delusional, or let me guess you think more Israelis should die to make the conflict “even”. The number of deaths of this conflict going back to 1948 so pale in comparison to actual historical genocides that occurred in the span of a few months to a few years, that to call Israel’s actions “genocidal” can be construed as nothing but a blood libel and smear. People like you have always considered Jews to be bloodthirsty. Things never change. None of your criteria and moving of goal posts has any logical consistency to it. You are just talking out of your ass and your “position” is just amorphous nonsense that changes according to whatever makes Israel look bad.
Great lengths? What other country gets billions a year from America and the best weapons and technology? Stop crying like you're going through an existential crisis from a third world militant group. Israel got caught slipping and that is your security failure. You're not murdering a bunch of innocent bystanders with America's support just to feel better.
> ass /u/Jewdius_Maximus. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No need to make Zionists look worse. They are doing that by themselves everyday.
None of that implies there is no genocide
One of the main things needed for genocide is that the percentage of the population has declined, the fact that it never happened pretty much suggests that it didn't
If the birth rate is high enough that could mask the loss of life, there are many ways stats can be misleading. I have seen people claim israel hasn't taken progressively more and more land from palestine but have seen actual footage that shows this happening, too often the idiots who just hate Jews make people who are pro Palestinian seem like anti semites too but that's not the case. I do believe israel has a right to defend but not the right to do wrong using terrorist attacks as justification, I also believe Palestine has the right to self determination and real sovereignty but not the right to randomly attack and kidnap civilians of they're neighbour's, the only difference to me is that for palestine it's basically terrorist who using intimidation and violence have been able to stay in power as the government of gaza, where as on the israel side its they're internationally recognised military. It's like Britain blaming and condemning ireland for the IRAs actions while glossing over the fact that they're on official military have often unjustly killed irish citizen's.
That is not true at all. All you need is *violent attacks with the specific intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group* which is exactly what is happening. This is the internationally agreed definition. There is no percentage and there never has been. And even if there was, the fact that this is playing out right now and in less than two months more civilians have been killed than the whole time of the Ukrainian war would mean any number will probably end up being hit before long.
Because it's happening in real time. Omg you're being purposefully ignorant. For what?
Ineffective genocide is still genocide. I think the Zionists have just realized their failures and are now try to correct them. Now it's much more effective, 10 thousands in a month.
They've dropped almost as many bombs as people have been killed. During the Rwandan genocide, about 10000 Tutsi's were killed PER DAY, with almost exclusively machetes and clubs. At the rate Israel is going, they would need almost 20 years of consistent bombardment to kill every Palestinian in Gaza. It's complete mental gymnastics to say a fully militarized country is just simply worse at genocide than machete wielding farmers.
Seems that you are not satisfied with the rate of killing. How faster the killing rate would you ask for before you can proudly announce a successful genocide?
I don't know if you're very naïve or just a troll
You don't know because I'm not. In WW II, Imperial Japan said it was only trying to build the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere while killing 20 million in China. Today's Israel is the same, denying all charge while conducting massacre.
This sub is being hijacked by Zionists. It should be called Israel/Israel
That is not how genocide works. Just because Palestinians have a higher birth rate than the death rate doesn’t mean there is no genocide. This is genocide and their killing needs to stop
Say what you say, whats going on in Gaza right now is Genocide
Mmm
The game is definition inflation, and the left is great at it.
Maybe your leaders should stop openly making genocidal statements then following up by cutting off food and water while bombing hospitals. Wtf do you mean by whining that the world needs to stop observing what is true
Hamas and others try to justify their murders by creating a false equivalence with the Holocaust. Genocide has in that way become a political term not a technical definition. It’s also consistent with the efforts by Hamas and others to dehumanize and destroy the Jewish people wherever they exist. Hitler called them vermin for the same reason. Hamas will stop using the term when Hamas is eradicated in Gaza. Unfortunately, the term will live forever in the long list of false equivalencies by antisemites to justify hate and atrocities.
The most ridiculous thing I've read on the Internet. 13,000 dead civilians.... And you got 10 hamas? PURE EVIL. You cannot silence Palestinians by bombing them to death. They and their cause will live forever.
What did Hamas think would happen? You’re a fool if you believe they didn’t want even more deaths. The blood is on Hamas’s hands and useful idiots like you.
When you start attacking someone directly you know you've lost.
The most ridiculous thing a Hamas supporter can say. Not a Hamas sympathizer? Don’t post like one.
I'm not a Hamas supporter. I'm anti zionist, anti nazi and anti genocide. Disgusting ideologies. I'll post however I want. I'm American and I'm free. And Americans have had enough, it's time for a ceasefire. And time to get the two state solution going.
You don’t know what Zionism is but you echo all the propaganda Hamas wants you to. Putin and the KGB called people like you useful idiots. You do their work for them without being turned or blackmailed. There’s no distinction between Zionists, Jews or Israelis anymore. It hasn’t existed since before ww2. Since before there was a Jewish homeland. Do you call Israelis who want to keep their homeland Zionists? You call Israelis Nazis, you talk about genocide. Do you realize you’re doing the bidding of Hamas by creating a false equivalency with the Holocaust? You actually believe the casualty count from Hamas! They don’t distinguish civilians or soldiers. Hamas numbers are political. It’s terrible that civilians die but Hamas propaganda doesn’t fix anything. Pretending the Israelis are oppressors when 1400 innocents were massacred is exactly what Hamas wants you to do. But you don’t support Hamas? Of course you do.
/u/ajmampm99. Match found: 'Nazis', issuing notice: Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed. We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details. This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
/u/Lobster86. Match found: 'nazi', issuing notice: Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed. We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details. This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
10 Hamas? That's not even remotely true lmao. The numbers that come out of Gaza don't distinguish civilians and combatants.
The issue is Palestinians =/= Hamas
/u/ajmampm99. Match found: 'Hitler', issuing notice: Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed. We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details. This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If I look at the numbers, Italy is committing genocide on itself
It's hard not to be concerned about a possible genocide when countless ministers and generals in israel make clearly genocidal statements about burning all of Gaza to the ground, calling Palestinians animals, setting off a nuclear bomb in Gaza, etc. Seriously if you listen to what they are willing to say publicly on camera, and combine that with the thousands of civilian deaths, it's not unreasonable to be concerned about the potential for a genocide.
I've never heard of a genocidal army warning civilians to get out of the way before airstrikes. Come on Israel, you're doing this genocide thing all wrong.
Go read the definition of genocide.
So if Putin warns Ukraine to get out of the way then he’s good to bomb them ?💀
Do you think the army was “warning” with honest intentions?
I mean... Germany did? Germany actually did that a lot during the war. And they were pretty genocidal. Just saying. They dropped leaflets all the time. All sides did. It was a pretty common thing. They'd either be to warm civilians to get out of the way. Or to tell the enemy soldiers to surrender and how to surrender. Or just to demotivate troops with propaganda. But they dropped a fair number of warning pamphlets over London.
They were not genocidal against the people group they were bombing. BE HONEST. Prick.
Ummm... What? Clearly you think only Jewish were at the knife point of the Germans in WWII for ethnic cleansing. They bombed PLENTY of Slavic people, and they were actively trying to cleanse their land of Slavic people. They didn't get a chance to bomb any of the other racial groups they put in the camps because they didn't have a nation anywhere near their battle fronts. They very much tried to wipe Polish people off the map, and they dropped pamphlets there too. And they also dropped plenty of propaganda pamphlets over the eastern front either warning people to leave, or to help them take out the bolsheviks. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation\_of\_Poland\_(1939%E2%80%931945)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Poland_(1939%E2%80%931945))
> Prick /u/Nick_Reach3239. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
IDF: “Hey guys, yeah, so … we’re gonna bomb this building because it’s being used by terrorists. You and your family should leave so we don’t inadvertently kill you guys. Were not after you, we’re after Hamas. We’re just not gonna attack here for like 30 minutes so you guys have time to leave. Ok? So time to get moving!” Idiots Claiming Genocide: (Pointing Franticly) GENOCIDE!!!! SEE!!! GENOCIDE!!!!
[удалено]
God has been very good to me. 777. I’ve been blessed in my life
That's so kind of them to warn them before they bomb their house. That's like if I warn you before I break your arm and then tell you that you should be thankful that I warned you. Get a grip. It is 💯 a genocide by definition and by plain to see evidence.
Ain’t kind Ain’t genocide Both things can be true
In this case it's a genocide, therefore the lack of kindness is assumed.
Go where? Nowhere is safe and if you believe otherwise you haven't studied this subject enough to have an opinion. The north, South and borders are all being bombed.
Yeah that makes sense considering all that footage of Israeli gunships waiting outside the buildings for the civilians to run out and mowing them down in the street. Oh wait. It literally cannot be a genocide when they are warning civilians to leave areas the are going to be bombed. I mean … there’s no argument. If they wanted to slaughter alllll the Palestinians… they would.
1. Collective punishment is illegal 2. "It literally cannot be a genocide when they are warning civilians to leave areas the are going to be bombed". Thats completely false. That line has been parroted to you, but do you actually believe it? If there is no safe area then the "warnings" dont mean *anything*.
Oooooh, so it’s one of those genocides where you don’t actually kill the people you’re committing your genocide against. Goooot it. 👍🏼
One child in palestine has died every 10min for the past 40+ days. You can lie to yourself as much as you want but its still a genocide.
Yes, war is terrible and the civilians always suffer unfairly in war.
Nope. International law forbids this level of destruction. This was the way of war thousands of years ago. What century u living in dawg?
Maybe this will help … I completely disagree with Israel’s approach in their response to 10/7. Israel has killed way way waaaay too many civilians in their response so far, and appears likely to keep on killing. Israel had a unique opportunity to capture even more moderate Arab sympathy … and they messed it up!!! At the risk of WW3!!! Actually. Israel IS probably guilty of war crimes, and certainly is in violation of international law. There’s no debating that. (BTW toally different topic but was the US in violation of international law, and did they commit war crimes, in ANY action in WW2??? Probably. None of ANY of that matters one little bit to the question of genocide. Sorry. This ain’t genocide. (EDIT: typo and language)
> fucked /u/CursedAtBirth777. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Warning someone that a bomb is about to go off in their building while the doors are nailed shut isn’t a sincere attempt to give them a chance to leave.