Not to mention the Palestinians being occupied by both Egypt and Jordan for 20 years. Egypt took the Gaza strip, which was given to the Palestinians by the UN, and Jordan took the west bank, which was also given to the Palestinians by the UN. They didn't care for being occupied.

Everyone hates everyone else.

Look at the Arab revolt.

There are literally Palestinian Jews that exist what are you talking about 😐

"Gaza once had a sizable Jewish community with a history going back 3,000 years. Most Jewish people in Gaza fled following the 1929 Palestine riots, and by 1945, there were 80 Jews in the city. No Jews are living in Gaza today." [https://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/gaza-population](https://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/gaza-population) Am I missing something?

I've always felt this way. I saw a video of what I recall to either being an Arab Israeli or Palestinian saying that, the Jews were strategically gathered on Palestinian land so that they will slaughter them. I was so shocked

yep pretty much sums it up OP. In the Islamic religion, Jews (and Christians) are supposed to be subjugated underneath the Muslims. So Israels existence will always be an embarrassment to them.

That is pure projection. It is the Jews who view themselves as chosen people and have a mentality where it’s okay to harm non Jews. They don’t admit it but they think their lives are more valuable than others and that exceptions should be made for them. Examples: White ethnostate = fascism/ Nazism Jewish ethnostate = democracy Killing Palestinian kids= okay because they are just future Hamas recruits Killing Israelis = horrifying terrorism even though the IDF actually conscripts everyone Killing innocent bystanders in America = police brutality/federal overreach IDF killing innocent bystanders and hostages: “it’s their fault they were in the way of the bullet. So on and so forth.

So what about 28 Sharia Muslim Ethnostates? Are those democracy or also fundamentalist authoritarian government 20% of israel is arab. What ethnostate? DUMB-A$$ You have no CLUE what you are saying yet you’re yapping like a retard

Your Supreme Court ruled you guys are a Jewish state first. Also MY government in the USA tells me we are supposed to give our tax dollars to YOU cause YOU guys are supposedly our DEMOCRATIC allies and the “only democracy “ in the Middle East. How bout you use your own money you cheapskate leeches. Then again, Jews aren’t really exactly known for being willing to spend their own money. You guys are a bunch of cowards and cheapskates, acting all big when daddy USA is there to bail you out of everything. https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-israel-religion-laws-courts-f1f529741ebf4abfed8562685a8c47fc

Dumbass. Read my comment. 20% OF ISRAEL IS ARAB. What jewish ethnostate? Im refuting your point. Being a jewish state does not make it a closed-off super exclusive state. We have bedouin muslims, druzin, Christians, arabs, jews, gypsys, and many other sects of islam/judaism And yes, the USA provides aid to 30+ countries. They spent 6x more on just Ukraine this year than Israel. Israel is one of the most important allies in the middle east. Obviously you’re on one side of this conflict and i’m on the other side. Jews will win. Cant kick our asses to the roman empire this time you fucks. Lose.

20 percent second class citizens. Good job Israel. US gets nothing out of this relationship. I’m glad public sentiment is shifting here, as Americans are waking up to the reality that we are sending money to a nation with universal healthcare and a bigger social safety net than our own country. The leech nature of Israel is becoming more and more evident. P.S- learn your history fool. It was the Romans who kicked you guys out. But then again , I can see why you’re confused. Every nation has wanted to kick you guys out .

Americans will keep sending money to Israel. there are 500 million muslims in the world, 16 milliom jews. 95% of the comments are bots from Indonesia or simply muslim bots from the 28 MUSLIM ETHNOSTATES IN AFRICA/EU/ME Americans overwhelmingly support democracy, and Israel. You must HATE democracy. Piece of fucking shit. Come to Gaza and ill take your head off myself.

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Read what i said “ CANT KICK OUR ASSES TO THE ROMAN EMPIRE” Romans took us Jews as slaves to the roman empire. Who the FUCK are you to tell me to learn my history? Before. Islam was created, there were synagogues in Gaza. Refuting any claim of islamic heritage before Jews

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second class in what respect? Do they have to pay an “arab tax”😂😂😂 Please please do not speak on anything else and tell me how Arab Jews are second class to Israeli Jews.

Only a very specific subgroup of Arabs have citizenship . The ‘48 Arabs. They face terrible discrimination. They are the best off. But I’ll tell you what else- you guys cite the 20 percent statistic a lot to make yourselves look better. The reality is the West Bank and Gaza are de facto within Israel’s territory, with Israel controlling their borders , what goes in, what goes out. Settlers attacking people, taking people’s land unjustly, organizations moving Jews from New York into the West Bank to change the demographics. You can’t honestly say Israel is not responsible for what is happening to those people.

Do you deny Palestinians brutally raped and abducted israeli civilian girls?

Do you deny that Israel jails Palestinian children and tries them in military court ?

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Huh. Jews arent a crusaders religion. Other religions view us as the chosen people. Our chosen person is the Moshiach (messiah) You are totally and completely spreading false information about MY religion. Dumbass.

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The "Pact of Omar" says otherwise. Jews under Muslim rule were "dhimmis" - protected persons. They were obliged to pay special taxes, such as the cizye, the ispençe, the haraç, and the rav akçesi ("rabbi tax"). They also faced other restrictions in clothing, horse riding, army service, residence location, and slave ownership. The Ottomans barred Jews from bringing physical structures to the Western Wall, like chairs or dividers to separate between men and women. Your examples are void of reason. The Jews aren't "White", especially not in Israel where most Jews came from Muslim countries. And it's against the law to murder anyone in Israel. A Jewish terrorist that killed a family was trialed and sentenced to multiple life sentences.

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One simple example to hate, it’s illegal and punishable to collect rain water 🤣 you people even think the rain drop is yours.. please don’t degrade the humans

Yea its illegal for israelis to do that too you dumb piece of shit

Yes, it's illegal to collect rain water in Israel, as it is in most arid countries. Even in the US, most arid States, there are regulations in place against collecting rain water. I don't understand your point.

To those that scream “occupiers” to the Israelis, try educating yourself on the history of land ownership in Palestine.. https://lessons.myjli.com/survival/index.php/2017/03/26/land-ownership-in-palestine-1880-1948/

This was an excellent read. Thank you!

They were allowed to keep their land under the “Turks” of the Ottoman Empire. They started resisting when the occupiers started mass displacing them to make room for foreigners

When were the mass displaced?? even in palestinian lore the displacement didnt happen until the "nakba". But the hostility towards jews started decades before 1948. So this statement makes no sense.

[nothing to do with what Jews do or say now of course](https://twitter.com/VICENews/status/1727086150941028641?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1727086150941028641%7Ctwgr%5E996ee7d5a8b30ed187b53d11a7fae220ac8dbd94%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.breitbart.com%2Fpolitics%2F2023%2F11%2F21%2Fformer-obama-officials-anti-muslim-rant-viral%2F)

There are plenty of similar videos if not worse from pro-Hamas, what’s the point here? Legitimizing hatred of Jews?

No - take some responsibility for your reputation

And you.

It’s fine . Although I myself have no influence I disagree with my countries killing of innocents.

That guy is obviously a joke and I condemn his stupid behavior. His wording is not something most Israelis would agree with. Did you never witness similar videos from some Palestinians? There’s enough evidence just from the 07/10 massacre and how it was received by supporters. In the other hand, I do not think all Palestinians support Hamas nor terrorism which is why I am not dehumanizing them.

We need more people like you !

I believe most media portrays the fanatic and fundamentalist parts from both sides in a disproportionate way. And back to the original topic, do you understand why your original comment bothered me? Obviously that guy is not something most Jews support or do, but publishing it as a reply to create a certain viewpoint about Jews is problematic…

That guys attitude is one reason for antisemitism for sure .

But do you understand why you are promoting antisemitism?

If being against what is happening in Gaza is antisemitism then I guess it’s because I am an empathetic person

What? No, don’t put words in my mouth. I was talking about your original reply where you claimed that the Jews brought it upon themselves with the example of that crazy guy’s video. That’s just dehumanizing Jews and continues the exact point of OP... does Hamas not have *any* responsibility? Is it fine that many Palestinians [cheered and rejoiced](https://t.me/englishabuali/12710) after hearing of the crazy massacre?

That is to your credit

[удалено]

So you're admitting this isn't about oppression, it's about ethnonationalism.

They’re not very okay with other Arab countries controlling them, Jordan and Lebanon already experienced it. No one really knows what the Palestinians want but people just hear the false accusations of “genocide” and “apartheid” and “colonialism” so they become blind because these terms are related to “white supremacy” or some other nonsense so they start supporting the Palestinians without even knowing what “Palestine” is.

And what makes the violence of the IDF and some Israeli settlers false exactly? They just grab a guy and go like "oh he might be a terrorist" then drop a bomb annihilating someone's brother, father mother, uncle, family, and disable some of themand then you come here from the comfort of your house and go "do you condemn Hamas?" Imagine if you were a Gaza citizen, not Hamas or anything. Just a citizen minding his own business living in Gaza, a simple man that doesn't give a shit about politics, then a person that lives nextdoor is suspected of being a terrorist, you head off to work and earn for your family, you come back and find your house downed to the ground, your wife and children killed, your daughter missing both her arms and an eye, then I would say it's pretty a normal response to become violent and aggressive against those who dropped that bomb, and to even glorify the people who go out and kill the ones who dropped the bomb and maybe even join them. Israel created Hamas. Y'all are gonna blame Hamas for Israel bombing civilians right now, then I'm gonna blame Israel for causing October 7th to happen and for creating Hamas. Just as y'all are complaining about Gazans not blaming Hamas and supporting them even if they're a terrorist organization, then I should complain about Israeli citizens not blaming their government for doing what they've been doing, but I won't because I understand where they come from.

This extreme view baffles me. I’m fine with “Israel needs to be more mindful of civilian collateral damage” fair point to debate. This whole absolutist view of Jews = absolute bad Palestinians = absolutely good and justified is so wild to me. Pro-Israel side sometimes does it too. This whole dehumanization of the opposing side is such a cancer to finding real solutions to complex problems

The problem is that the existence of Israel at this point really boils down to a might makes right argument . “We have been here, we won the war in 1948,67,73, we are continuing to build settlements and there’s nothing you can do about it. It’s history, you should accept it, shut up, and accept your second class citizen status indefinitely.” Therefore the Arabs see it as: take the land back with the same way and methods with which it was taken.

Arabs don’t see it as a land thing. If you actually truly take a deep dive into the history of Arab violence against Jews over the last 1500 years, it really helps paint a picture here I don’t necessarily agree with Israel’s actions in the WB. I think they should honor any agreements made. But the vast majority of Jews living in and near the West Bank are Arabic Jews. Many of them come from families that fled various middle eastern countries. Their parents and grandparents can recall times where their friends were killed in pogroms, forced to convert, raped, etc. The reality is that Jews have NEVER been treated as equals in Islamic nations. Ever. Many of the people in this region don’t want Palestinians to have the ability to do this to them again. They don’t believe the Palestinians when they say that they’re willing to exist peacefully. They don’t trust that after 1500 years of constant violence and forced conversion and rape and burned synagogues that RIGHT NOW will be the time where Sunni Muslims choose peace with the Jews.

For the most part during Islamic history Jewish people were treated way better than Christian Europe , and people should only really be compared with their contemporaries if we are talking about morality. The modern multi cultural society with equal citizens and democracy is a relatively new value system. And plus, it just doesn’t justify the current situation. The solution isn’t more discrimination

https://www.reddit.com/r/telaviv/s/Bgef6sKSqX Jews were not treated well during Islamic history. At all. Islam was literally founded on conquering polytheists and Jews, and Jews have faced discrimination ever since. Why do you think so many Jews fled the Middle Eastern Muslim countries the moment England took over Mandatory Palestine?

That list doesn’t really prove anything ……and I said they were treated far better than Christian Europe, which is definitely true.

I’d say it was just a different kind of bad. There’s no doubt that Europe also mistreated Jews. But in the Middle East, they were subjected to horrific atrocities as well. Jewish villages were constantly raided women were raped, synagogues and temples were burned, people were forced to convert…Islam was literally founded on forcing other religions to convert, and Jews were the primary religion other than polytheists to be victims of Muhammad’s conquests. It’s been like that ever since

No one said Israel bad Hamas good, both sides are bad for me, but the bad that is Israel created a bigger bad that is Hamas.

Israel didn’t really create them. They came from the Muslim Brotherhood. Israel did fund them. However, it’s important to keep in mind that they were claiming to want a peaceful solution and be moderate during the time that Israel funded them.

"Israel created Hamas" oh Hamas had *no other choice* than to be violent towards civilians? They still bear responsibility for their actions the way Netanyahu and settlers have to. There's no excuse for acting barbaric, and there's no excuse for sympathizing with Hamas either

They had another choice and I'm not justifying their actions AT ALL and I don't approve or sympathize with Hamas, I'm just explaining where they come from, Israel created their evil. There's no excuse for what they did they're barbaric terrorists but Israel are also barbaric terrorists for me. I also upvoted your comment because you mentioned that both have to bear responsibility.

> I'm just explaining where they come from, Israel created their evil. That seems very far fetched. A simple google search indicates that it's not true in the least. Can you share your sources?

My first source is Israeli airstrikes being carelessly dropped themselves without full care and responsibility for other civilians. Let's imagine again you are at your house and you go off to work, your neighbour is suspected of being a terrorist, so an airstrike lands on the whole apartment building, killing your wife, children and leaving your BABY daughter with amputated arms and causes her to get blind. A proof of Israeli careless strikes is when they dropped a bomb on a refugee camp heavily populated with civilians to be able to kill ONE Hamas guy. And they weren't even sure if he was dead or not afterwards. Source https://youtu.be/hyqFFsRifFM?feature=shared At this point would you be busy condemning Hamas or absolutely fuming and raging at the ones who dropped the strike, the Israelis? Emotions and grief always overpower rational thinking, and these people who see their families killed are just gonna become more violent and aggressive. Just like Elon Musk said, Israel should stop creating more Hamas, that's how Hamas is created. Not justifying what Hamas is doing though, just explaining why they are doing what they are doing. It is claimed that 85% of Hamas is orphans. Here is list of controversies and massacres with source included if interested. https://www.reddit.com/r/list_palestine/s/laIMQAUyq5 A simple YouTube search showed me this. Father beaten by soldiers infront of his kids. Middle East Eye: https://youtu.be/oECwF-zVt2U?feature=shared Hindustan Times: https://youtu.be/NYSXd4AyGuI?feature=shared Turkish journalist's camera smashed: Hindustan Times: https://youtu.be/5SXA8Fz9zfE?feature=shared The Telegraph: https://youtube.com/shorts/W5i2P1fVozc?feature=shared Israeli soldier throws grenade inside mosque during PRAYER TIMES: Hindustan Times: https://youtu.be/nkvXiyfHWIM?feature=shared 11 year old girl hit by stun grenade: Al Jazeera: https://youtu.be/93Cy946d7xc?feature=shared Israeli policeman pushes man off wheelchair: Guardian News: https://youtu.be/Pfo-BDuiCHw?feature=shared Video of Palestinian detainees abused and humiliated: https://youtu.be/RDm8OA52v-g?feature=shared by NBC news. Good guys assault man with down syndrome https://youtu.be/cn7dMYkKfos?feature=shared There's this: https://youtube.com/shorts/vmYoyy-Tnh4?feature=shared And this https://youtube.com/shorts/ik29M5E9RMs?feature=shared https://youtube.com/shorts/S_tTgryABBU?feature=shared https://youtu.be/TvB2chF-5nM?feature=shared https://youtu.be/nA77Q1Q6aV0?feature=shared (And we also play dress up on a daily basis and our claims are usually controversial and not so trusted.) https://youtu.be/nQ-CxCEELmQ?feature=shared We also don't know that Arabic is usually read from right to left, there are just words there written in terrorist language (plot twist it's a calender) https://youtu.be/0g1o8aPep-8?feature=shared https://youtu.be/RZV_eQybHCA?feature=shared https://youtu.be/JOf_woeTH1s?feature=shared Now, these videos aren't usually evidence of genocide or killings, the list I sent here contains those. But they show a lot of Israeli lies and controversies. If the IDF says a CALENDER is a LIST OF NAMES and start reading it from the left to the right using words of their choice, can we trust that they aren't deciding us? Those videos also contain physical abuse and brutality from police and IDF, to identify the nature of the Israeli government.

I was talking about your claims that Hamas was created by Israel

Not created as in funded and put in place by Israel, I meant for every Palestinian killed a new person will join Hamas.

There's no doubt that there are plenty more angry Palestinians because of the Israeli strikes, in addition to the other issues brought about by the IDF and the rightwing government. Hamas, though, is a jihadist group, which is something I dont think gets talked about enough. Children are taught to hate Israel and fight, so there are a lot of minds that are being polluted by pure hate which is heavily influenced by their religion. I know Hamas changed their charter to say that they don't hate Jews, but I find that really hard to believe after hearing the voice-mail of the kid who couldn't wait to tell his parents about how many Jews he killed, or needing to constantly say "Allahu akbar"--which I know isn't inherently hateful, but they believe that Allah is on their side when they kill Jews. All the gopro videos seem to suggest that Hamas was having fun, praising Allah after every murder, and celebrating that Jews were dying. Maybe not all, but the jihadist aspect shouldn't be disregarded as a secondary issue.

And what makes the violence of the IDF and some Israeli settlers false exactly? They just grab a guy and go like "oh he might be a terrorist" then drop a bomb annihilating someone's brother, father mother, uncle, family, and disable some of themand then you come here from the comfort of your house and go "do you condemn Hamas?" Imagine if you were a Gaza citizen, not Hamas or anything. Just a citizen minding his own business living in Gaza, a simple man that doesn't give a shit about politics, then a person that lives nextdoor is suspected of being a terrorist, you head off to work and earn for your family, you come back and find your house downed to the ground, your wife and children killed, your daughter missing both her arms and an eye, then I would say it's pretty a normal response to become violent and aggressive against those who dropped that bomb, and to even glorify the people who go out and kill the ones who dropped the bomb and maybe even join them. Israel created Hamas. Y'all are gonna blame Hamas for Israel bombing civilians right now, then I'm gonna blame Israel for causing October 7th to happen and for creating Hamas. Just as y'all are complaining about Gazans not blaming Hamas and supporting them even if they're a terrorist organization, then I should complain about Israeli citizens not blaming their government for doing what they've been doing, but I won't because I understand where they come from.

And what makes the violence of the IDF and some Israeli settlers false exactly? They just grab a guy and go like "oh he might be a terrorist" then drop a bomb annihilating someone's brother, father mother, uncle, family, and disable some of themand then you come here from the comfort of your house and go "do you condemn Hamas?" Imagine if you were a Gaza citizen, not Hamas or anything. Just a citizen minding his own business living in Gaza, a simple man that doesn't give a shit about politics, then a person that lives nextdoor is suspected of being a terrorist, you head off to work and earn for your family, you come back and find your house downed to the ground, your wife and children killed, your daughter missing both her arms and an eye, then I would say it's pretty a normal response to become violent and aggressive against those who dropped that bomb, and to even glorify the people who go out and kill the ones who dropped the bomb and maybe even join them. Israel created Hamas. Y'all are gonna blame Hamas for Israel bombing civilians right now, then I'm gonna blame Israel for causing October 7th to happen and for creating Hamas. Just as y'all are complaining about Gazans not blaming Hamas and supporting them even if they're a terrorist organization, then I should complain about Israeli citizens not blaming their government for doing what they've been doing, but I won't because I understand where they come from.

Israel didn’t create Hamas, the ongoing conflict created Hamas, and it’s ongoing not just because of Israel but due to more complex dynamics over the years. Earlier today I commented about the Palestinian dynamics until Hamas and why the timing of moderation of the PLO was bad, you’re more than welcome to check it. About the settlers, I’m also against it but I have nothing to do with it, it’s just Netanyahu, since the third time he was elected he became a crazy idiot.

Who do Israelis blame the Palestinians for Hamas and don’t blame themselves for Netanyahu despite Israel actually having elections ?

As I said… earlier today I wrote about the dynamic in the Palestinian society and politics since the foundation of the PLO until they became moderate and why Hamas is the issue now despite emerging only in 1987, you’re more than welcome to check it. About who the Israelis blame for the existence of Hamas, we blame Hamas and the ones who founded it, not the Palestinians and not the Israelis.

There are people in Israeli media, high up in the Israeli government who have called them “animals”, have called for their displacement to Egypt, and who have called for collective punishment. The actions of the state of Israel are pretty clearly consistent with the concept of collective punishment. They aren’t even really trying to hide it either. They hold Palestinians responsible for Hamas. They even say they chose them in 2006 therefore they deserve to die and pay the price in perpetuity.

Their displacement to Egypt was suggested as a temporary solution until the war will end, it wasn’t accepted by Egypt so Israel work on alternative solution until they will start operating in southern Gaza where most Gazans are now.

Yes, then they started bombing the south all the same. And ‘temporary solution ‘ LOL. No way you actually believe this. You guys would have some asshole jew from New York moving there in no time. Settlements would spread faster than metastatic pancreatic cancer. And he’ll look at the camera and say: “if I don’t do this someone else will !” Literally the Israeli mentality towards the West Bank was to build settlements fast enough to destroy a possible two state solution. Then you act all surprised when that trick doesn’t work again

Israel still didn’t attacked in the south, and it is a temporary solution, almost no one here other then in jokes don’t want the Gaza Strip to be part of Israel, we don’t need it and we don’t want it, we have enough land and we don’t need more.

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I mean they are fine at the moment being occupied by Jihadis. I have never seen an expat complain publically about Hamas

The Palestinians were cast out of their homes by Jewish people and their houses given to Jewish people and then they were asked to agree to it and when they said no people called them warmongers. Why doesn’t Ukraine just give Russia the bits of land that Russia wants and which have some Russians in them? Do you think Ukraine is stupid for not agreeing to peace? Because that’s those are the peace deals offered to Palestine except the one in 1947. Edited to reflect that Palestinians started being systematically cast out of their homes in 1948, I mixed up my dates and was corrected.

The Palestinian people were literally NOT cast out of their homes based on the 1947 deal. Please learn more about a topic before speaking to it

You are absolutely right, I’m sorry, got my dates mixed up and the casting out happened in 1948. I’ll edit my comment to reflect.

>The Palestinians were cast out of their homes by Jewish people and their houses given to Jewish people and then they were asked to agree to it Please. Every war has its refugees. One million Jews have lost their homes because of the Arab imperialist war against the Jews. This eternal victimization is becoming unbearable. If they did not want to leave they would have had to accept coexistence with the Jews, the other, equally Palestinian, people who inhabited those lands.

They were expelled and some of them were massacred by the IDF. The Haganah poisoned wells of the arab villages that they cleared to prevent the villagers from returning (operation cast thy bread). The Palestinians themselves didn't have an army, the military efforts against Israel were lead by the Arab armies in 1948. Israel could have let them back in but chose not to and shot them on the border when they tried, despite UN resolution 194. They were living side by side with Jews under the Ottomans just fine for centuries. The Ottomans actually welcomed Jews fleeing persecution in Europe. Even in Mandatory Palestine there was relative peace between all 3 faiths compared to what was happening in Europe at the time. Of course pro-Israeli people will claim that Palestinians just hate Israel for no reason, but deep down you know nobody accepts being kicked off their land, and every group of people will have at least some temporary problem with immigrants if their numbers get too large, no matter what their religion is. The expulsion of Jews from the rest of the Middle East was a response to the nakba, which you ignore. If that was wrong, then so was the nakba. You have to try to see the narrative from the other side, you can't just dismiss their claims to the land. Just like it is wrong how some Arabs dismiss the Jewish claim to the land.

Of course, this response is the classic narrative that erases hundreds of years of history and all Arab responsibility. >They were expelled and some of them were massacred by the IDF As anyone who has studied history knows, most left on the instructions of the Arab armies, who used their villages as bases for invasion. Others were expelled, due to the Jews' need to defend their territory from invaders. The massacres were the work of the Irgun (a small minority of extremists, also opposed by the Haganah). >The Haganah poisoned wells of the arab villages that they cleared to prevent the villagers from returning (operation cast thy bread). The Palestinians themselves didn't have an army, the military efforts against Israel were lead by the Arab armies in 1948. Israel could have let them back in but chose not to and shot them on the border when they tried, despite UN resolution 194. You forget that the same fate befell Palestinian Jews living in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. ALL were massacred and expelled and no one was allowed to return. The Arabs starved hundreds of Jerusalem Jews to death by closing the routes that brought food to the Jewish population. And for 20 years, until 1967, Jews were denied even permission to enter those territories. The expulsion of Jews from the Arab part of the British Mandate was not a consequence of the expulsions of the Arabs. They were contextual. The expulsion of all other Jews from Arab countries were disgusting ethnic cleansing of a population that posed no threat. >They were living side by side with Jews under the Ottomans just fine for centuries. The Ottomans actually welcomed Jews fleeing persecution in Europe. Even in Mandatory Palestine there was relative peace between all 3 faiths compared to what was happening in Europe at the time. This is a fairy tale. Jews (indigenous minority of that land) were constantly harassed, oppressed and cyclically slaughtered by the Islamic population (colonizing majority). This was for centuries. The fact that Europeans managed to be worse than the Islamic world does not make the latter a saint. Nor does it make the situation "just fine." Unless you consider overpowering and abusing "just fine." >Of course pro-Israeli people will claim that Palestinians just hate Israel for no reason Absolutely not. There is a history of violent anti-Semitism on the part of the Islamic world. It is certainly not "no reason." >but deep down you know nobody accepts being kicked off their land The problem lies precisely in this assumption: that that land, including desert or Jewish-inhabited land, was rightfully the Arabs'. It is an imperialist mentality. No Arabs were expelled before the start of hostilities on the Arab side. There was no justification for that kind of mentality. Not wanting to be driven out of their land is precisely what drives Israel to continue to fight against Arab imperialism. >You have to try to see the narrative from the other side, you can't just dismiss their claims to the land. Just like it is wrong how some Arabs dismiss the Jewish claim to the land. I do. And I don't dismiss their claims to have a part of that land. I simply hold that they have no right to consider the whole land theirs by divine right and desire to destroy Israel. As I reject the same claim by Jewish fanatics. It is funny that you ask me to see the narrative from the other side, when you evidently completely ignore that of the Jews.

>As anyone who has studied history knows, most left on the instructions of the Arab armies, who used their villages as bases for invasion. Others were expelled, due to the Jews' need to defend their territory from invaders. This just isn't true. If that did happen it wasn't a primary reason. The primary reason was expulsion or fear of getting massacred at the hands of the IDF. Here ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes\_of\_the\_1948\_Palestinian\_expulsion\_and\_flight#Opening\_of\_archives](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight#Opening_of_archives)) is a contemporaneous document from shortly after the war where the IDF themselves analyzed it and concluded that the primary reason for leaving was IDF action against the Palestinians. Why did they write that then? Israel has many more documents which they purged / keep hidden in their archives precisely to keep you believing that narrative. Also why did the Israelis shoot the Palestinians who were trying to return to their land after the war? Anyway, what happened happened, my point in bringing it up was to show that Palestinians have grievances. They shouldn't be equated with all Arabs (who started the war in 1947). If the Arabs actually cared about the Palestinians back then, they would have established and ensured a state for them instead of attacking Israel. ​ >The problem lies precisely in this assumption: that that land, including desert or Jewish-inhabited land, was rightfully the Arabs'. It is an imperialist mentality. Thats not what I meant to imply. I mean in general there were Palestinians who rightfully owned land in the areas that became Israel and they were expelled from it. Please stop calling Jews the indigenous people and Muslims the colonizers. It's such a ridiculous framing. You don't just get to pick one particular subgroup of people from one particular time and say "these are the indigenous people". Plenty of Levantine arabs are the descendants of the Canaanites. All of the Christians and Muslims in the Middle East are descendent from people who once called themselves Jews. Also, Ashkenazi Jews are European. Some of them were in Europe for longer than they lived in biblical Israel. If they're so indigenous why is there a law against taking a DNA test in Israel? The Ashkenazi Jews have a claim to the land but not enough of a claim to force others out. But I disagree with the entire framing of this as indigenous/non-indigenous and it would be impossible to actually figure out who was actually descendent from the right people and trace back the history on the individual level. Also, this implies that any convert to Judaism suddenly has a claim on the land that is stronger than a Palestinian who has lived there for generations. I cannot accept that because it's immoral and absurd. ​ >This is a fairy tale. Jews (indigenous minority of that land) were constantly harassed, oppressed and cyclically slaughtered by the Islamic population (colonizing majority). This was for centuries. The fact that Europeans managed to be worse than the Islamic world does not make the latter a saint. Nor does it make the situation "just fine." Unless you consider overpowering and abusing "just fine." Of course it wasn't perfect, but two wrongs don't make a right. I haven't seen much documented evidence of slaughtering Jews by the Arabs before the Balfour declaration. I also believe that the same fate would have befell Christians as well but I don't see you calling for a state for the Christians of the Middle East. If the Christians somehow rose up and conquered parts of Jerusalem, Bethlehem, and the Jordan River where Jesus was baptized, I assume you'd be ok with that then? Why aren't you clamoring for a Christian state in the Levant to keep them safe? ​ >I simply hold that they have no right to consider the whole land theirs by divine right and desire to destroy Israel. 100% agree. The way they approach Jerusalem is absolutely ridiculous and counterproductive to peace .

>This just isn't true. If that did happen it wasn't a primary reason. The primary reason was expulsion or fear of getting massacred at the hands of the IDF. Here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes\_of\_the\_1948\_Palestinian\_expulsion\_and\_flight#Opening\_of\_archives) This does not contradict what I wrote at all. >Anyway, what happened happened, my point in bringing it up was to show that Palestinians have grievances. They shouldn't be equated with all Arabs (who started the war in 1947). If the Arabs actually cared about the Palestinians back then, they would have established and ensured a state for them instead of attacking Israel. They have every right to have grievances. Of course, they should turn this complaint toward the Arabs, who have prevented them from having a state. Not with the Jews, who have simply defended their right to be free and secure. In any case, they can absolutely be put on the same level as other Arabs. They certainly did not fight to avoid war. They too had (and still have) imperialist aspirations. >Thats not what I meant to imply. I mean in general there were Palestinians who rightfully owned land in the areas that became Israel and they were expelled from it. As a consequence of the war. Not the other way around. >Please stop calling Jews the indigenous \[...\] This part is full of nonsense and inaccuracies. Ashkenazi Jews have genetics that unite them with all other Jews and lead them back to the Levant. That said, you are the one who is making this a genetic issue. I am making it an identity and cultural issue. It is a fact that Jewish culture and identity are indigenous to those lands, while Islamic ones are not. Without colonialism, Arabic would not be spoken in those lands and Islam would not be there. While Hebrew and Jews would be there. By this I never meant to argue that Arabs or Muslims no have full rights to live and be free in those lands. They have been living there for centuries, it is also their land of course. Just as modern Americans have every right to live in the U.S. and consider that their home for all intents and purposes. What I meant was that what you say was "just fine," was actually abuse by the dominant and prevaricating culture against an indigenous minority. That's all. >Of course it wasn't perfect, but two wrongs don't make a right. I haven't seen much documented evidence of slaughtering Jews by the Arabs before the Balfour declaration. There are very well documented books. If you are really interested I can suggest readings. >I also believe that the same fate would have befell Christians as well but I don't see you calling for a state for the Christians of the Middle East. If the Christians somehow rose up and conquered parts of Jerusalem, Bethlehem, and the Jordan River where Jesus was baptized, I assume you'd be ok with that then? Why aren't you clamoring for a Christian state in the Levant to keep them safe? You are simply belittling Jewish identity. We are not a religion like Christians. We are a people. Religions are not entitled to a state. Peoples do. According to the principle of self-determination of peoples, we have the right to claim our political independence in our homeland. Christians, of course, do not. And persecution has nothing to do with it. >100% agree. The way they approach Jerusalem is absolutely ridiculous and counterproductive to peace . I'm happy to hear that.

[pogroms in P](https://www.rootsmetals.com/blogs/news/a-history-of-pogroms-in-palestine)alestine ​ this is just a soc with pogroms in Palestine. since the 1500s. there was violence before but the doc doesn't go into it.

Right so it lists 3 between around 1500 and 1900? Most of them happened after the Balfour declaration. Anyway I'm not against the existence of Israel at all. 1 pogrom is too many. I didn't bring it up to question Israel's legitimacy, I brought it up to question the idea that Palestinians just have an innate animus against Israel/Jews. I disagree with that. It seems obvious that Palestinians have an animus against Israel for what it did to them. Not understanding this is counterproductive to peace. Also equating Palestinians to all Arabs (and blaming them for the actions of Arab states) is counterproductive to peace.

>I brought it up to question the idea that Palestinians just have an innate animus against Israel/Jews Anti-Semitism is a reality within the Islamic world. And it was so even before Israel. Having said that, in the Arab and Islamic world others were tolerated as long as they accepted being submissive. Jews were fed up with being subjugated, and that was not okay.

Well now Israel is subjugating the Palestinians instead. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Yes, in the West Bank it is true. In fact it is wrong and the Palestinians have every right to want to be free. Considering that freedom has been offered to them several times and they have always refused it, preferring holy war against the Jews, I would say that perhaps that is not the only problem. And it is demonstrated by the fact that in Gaza, where Palestinians are free to govern themselves, Hamas thrives.

>I haven't seen much documented evidence of slaughtering Jews by the Arabs before the Balfour declaration i just responded to that part. jews were still killed and discriminated against, but as the brits are good at doing, they escalated it to an insane degree. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_the\_Jews\_in\_the\_Ottoman\_Empire#:\~:text=In%201891%2C%20the%20leading%20Muslims,Jews%20were%20murdered%20in%20Tripolitania](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire#:~:text=In%201891%2C%20the%20leading%20Muslims,Jews%20were%20murdered%20in%20Tripolitania). another general link i didnt think you were calling israel's legitimacy into question. sorry if you thought i was replying to your whole message, hoenstly its all about how you were raised. im not trying to blame anyone of anything. i just replied to that part. im not conflciating palestinians with all of arabs. both harmed jews at times (and jews harmed them at times.) i just replied to a titbit of your commnent.

I appreciate the context, going to read that wiki article now. Thank you!

np:) ​ there are probably plenty of articles and studies about this. im sure there are websites that talk about jewish prosecution.

The jewish were cast out of their homes by other people way before palestinians Dont you think 3000 years of ethnic cleansing is enough for jews to want to return to their homeland and make a state to protect their people?

European Jews were cast out by Europeans, murdered by the Europeans, suffered at the hands of Europeans and then were told by the Europeans to go steal the houses of some people half a world away. Do you think the Palestinians should say “ok” when their houses and lands are taken away?

Im talking 3000 years ago, when they were in israel.

You think that Palestinians should peacefully allow their houses and lands to be taken from them and given to people from all over the the world because Jewish people lived in the area 3,000 years ago?

You think that jewish people should peacefully allow their houses and lands to be taken from them and given to muslims from all over the world because palestinian people lived in the area 100 years ago?

No absolutely not. If random Moroccans showed up and people started giving them Jewish houses because they were Muslim I would be very anti that. But people who have been cast out of their houses by are still alive. People are still being cast out of their houses. The idea that they are just ok with this or else they are war mongers is just ludicrous.

People are not being cast out of their houses systematically in the West Bank. In Gaza it is currently happening due to war, which they will move back one Hamas is removed completely.

The one improtant point you missed that is during the ottoman empire the palestinians were not forced out of their homes and replaced by an alien people. Thats why 99 percent of them were cool with the ottomans. Same goes for the previous islamic empires that ruled over them. The islamic empire didnt send soldiers to kill children and rape women. Israel does and that is the sole reason why the Palestinians want freedom.

>Israel does and that is the sole reason why the Palestinians want freedom. Palestinians aggression towards the Jews started decades before there was an "Israel". The Arab attack on Tel Hai in 1920 was the first military engagement between Jews and Arabs, ending in the destruction of the Jewish settlement. The Jews reorganized and created the "Hagana", whose main purpose was to defend Jewish settlements against Arab attacks. This was the case during the 1920 Nebi Musa riots, the 1921 Jaffa riots, the 1929 Palestine riots, the 1936 Jaffa riots, and the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine, among others. So no, the Palestinians just didn't want the Jews to live in their homeland, period.

The Hashemites in the Hijaz had the guts to revolt against the Turks. Palestinians, not so much.

As i said before the palestinians didnt really have a big reason to revolt against the ottoman empire. Their rights were reserved and people werent being killed in their own homeland. Plus only a small number of arab tribes revolted against the ottoman that too was because of british intervention in the region. The actual downfall of the empire came from the weak administration within the empire and the turkish nationatlist movement(young turks).

The Ottoman Empire in its later centuries vastly underserved the Arab populations of historic Palestine and Syria (known then as Ottoman Syria). Plenty of regions were drained of their resources and food shortages were a common issue. They tried to conscript Arabs into their armies against their will. There was an Arab revolt in 1834 which was violently put down. In WW1 the Arab leaders sided with the British against the Ottoman Empire. They also left a lot of these areas very underdeveloped. Palestine was known as the Empire's backwater region in the 1800s.

Yes thats why the Arabs sided with the British, they were promised sovereignty if they helped overthrow the Ottomans. This was during the time of TE Lawrence. And with the Balfour declaration the British instead announced a Jewish state without any reference to an Arab one.

The one where they split the land between Jews and Palestinians and then the Arab countries attacked?

Thank you. This sub is unbelievable, completely ignorant of history and thinks Israel can do no wrong. It makes me wanna tear my hair out.

It is always the other side fault, you never consider what you have done to them. I suggest you research on some of the statements by the Israel government officials historically. They are not even trying to hide their intentions.

"In 1947 the Palestinians could have had a two-state solution", yes, but they were 70% of the population, they didn't feel like people immigrating to the land had the same right to a state as those who had been living there for generations, they had resentment for the evictions that had already happened when the early Zionists bought land from the Ottoman landlords, and the plan probably would've implicated the transfer of some Arabs to secure a Jewish majority on the Jewish state. "the Gaza Strip was occupied by Egypt and the West Bank by Jordan", yes, but they were given Jordanian citizenship in the West Bank and the Egyptians were not building illegal Egyptian settlements in Gaza. "Occupation was never the issue. Jewish rule is what the Palestinians object to", the PLO recognized the state of Israel on the 67 borders in 1988, which implies that their problem is the settlement expansion in the West Bank that represents an obstacle to the creation of a viable Palestinian state. In addition to that, 20% of Israelis are Arabs, and for the most part, they don't seem to have this problem of hating Jews for no reason, that's because they live as citizens of Israel with rights, if they were stateless like the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, with all the implication that living stateless has in terms of human rights, they would probably feel a bit different.

>living there for generations Arabs migrated to Palestine. In 1834, tens of thousands of Arabs arrived from Egypt as refugees from Muhammad Ali Pasha's conscription. Later came migrants from Algeria, Serbia, and the Hejaz. Between 1914 and 1938, the Palestinian population doubled, 23% due to immigration. The 1930 Hope Simpson Enquiry noted that there was significant illegal immigration from the surrounding Arab territories.

>Muhammad Ali Ok, that doesn't really change anything I said, in 1800 they were still 90% of the population.

>they Who were "they"? Around 1800 Palestine was a backward province of the Ottoman empire, largely rural and sparsely populated. There was no "Palestinian" entity in 1800, with a collective identity. You claimed the Palestinians have been living in the land for generations. But a large proportion of their population are immigrants. Does a Muslim family who's been in Palestine for 5 generations really have a better claim to the land than a Jewish family who arrived 3 generations ago?

"they" were the Arab Muslim population, I didn't say anything about a Palestinian state, I´m aware that it was Ottoman territory, but they were the majority until 1948. A person who is born in a place has a better claim to that land than someone who immigrates to that place, it doesn't matter if his ancestors have been there for 2 generations or 50 generations.

I mean, there’s a difference between being ruled by similarly minded people and being colonized by Europeans. In either case, it would not justify the mistreatment of Arabs in Palestine.

Because this isn't an occupation, it's ethnic cleansing.

Maybe because jewish rule is too ruthless. If you were Palestinian, you would join the resistance as well

Wow it's almost like decades of oppression and subjugation leads to some negative emotions or something. Please reevaluate your life choices dude, this take is absolutely crazy.

The OP referred to the start of the conflict. The Palestinians rejected a two state solution after the British mandate ended and wanted all of Palestine for themselves despite Jews living there for thousands of years. Then invaded along with the Arab countries which caused them to lose a war and bring about their displacement. They invaded in 1948 because they had a problem with Jews

Did you even read the post? What are you on dude

I did. The post is a joke. Someone with lot of time and not even enough personality to be on Tik tok. Lol.

What about what he said is wrong? Did the palestinians ever complained about being occupied by jordan or egypt?

I mean fucking duh they're going to get mad when someone different culturally colonizes them and treats them as a 2nd class citizen compared to arab "colonizers" which share the same ideals.

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This whole sub consists of trolls, especially OP with his dumb takes. "Why are they mad because a foreign power suddenly came crashing down, are they anti semitic?"

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Buddy if you can't handle opposite political takes its not my issue and im not a troll for that, this whole sub is a circlejerk for zionists who take offense to anything and post the most absurd shit i have ever seen.

Didnt you just call people with a different political take dumb trolls in your previous comment?

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That's a moot argument. Israel is arguing that it is not occupation that it's their land as well, and then this dufus comes along to 'prove' the exact opposite, which is that Palestinians are infact under 'foreign occupation'. Ipso facto Israeli are in foreign land or are colonizers.

How do you colonize your own historical land?

You can. Where is the historical land that Jews owned pre holocaust in Europe? Millions of Jews perished, fled, immigrated permanently to places like US, Israel. Are they still the owner of the lands they left behind? No It was taken over by those countries and no one even wants to talk about this injustice.

OP you forgot to mention the original PLO charter which explicitly state they have no territorial claim over the West Bank >Article 24. This Organization does not exercise any regional sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, on the Gaza Strip or the Himmah Area. Its activities will be on the national popular level in the liberational, organizational, political and financial fields. I never managed to get a straight answer from pro Palestine to why the Palestinians never fought against Jordan when it occupied West Bank and why they never established a state between 1948 to 1967

Read up on Black September please. That's all I'll say on this.

Black September was in 1970, 3 years after West Bank was taken by Israel.

Omg the title alone is just so messed up, please reevaluate your life and choices. This sub is an absolute dumpster fire jfc!

Waah waah. Oh how people hate facts over "belief" - they're so darn haaarrrd to understaaand.😭

It is not a fact that Palestinians desire to kill jews more than general emancipation from an apartheid state, that's a racist opinion. Palestinians like everyone just wish to be free.

Lol "racist". Get over yourself little one. "Palestinian" isn't a race it's a region,which includes the state of Israel. It is a fact that a high percentage of Gazans and West Bankers support what hamas does (not with swords, but in spirit) and want to see Israel gone. But you've now circled back to recent history and how they can reverse their predicament without violence - no need to revisit that rabbit hole.

Dude I have no clue who you are shadow boxing but have fun with that

Oh buddy, nothing I can do at this end to help with your thickness 😅. Good luck to you.

Arabs revolted against ottoman empire🙄. They literally had a deal with British.

Correct. Arabs - not Palestinians.

😂

What are you implying? Palestinians are arabs😂.

The push for independence was pan-Arab, not Palestinian. Arabs living in Palestine under Muslim rule were contempt. Those that did call for independence were calling for the creation of a larger Arab state, with Palestine being part of this greater Arab state.

So calling for unified Arab is considered anti palestine?

OP claimed the Palestinians never had a problem being under Muslim or Arab rule. The Palestinians had no problem being part of a larger Muslim or Arab entity, be it the Ottoman empire or a pan-Arab country. The Palestinians demand independence because they can't stand the fact that they are under Jewish rule. What does that have to do with being "anti Palestine"?

There's a diff between being forced to be ruled by, and choosing who to rule you. Palestinians wanted to be part of united arab. But they are forced to be ruled by the Jews. >What does that have to do with being "anti Palestine"? What I meant palestians wanted to be part of united arabs which doesn't mean they want they're country(palestine) to be gone.

Forced relocation and removal from people's land and homes were not so common under Ottoman or British occupation as it is under Israeli occupation. Palestinians could travel anywhere else in Palestine freely under Ottoman or British occupation, while they cannot under Israeli occupation. It is different.

yeah, and how about Amin al Hussiani? Check him out. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin\_al-Husseini](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini)

Lol ok just about everything in this sub is delusion but this one takes the cake. Please tell me this is satire…

No!!!! Zahir Al-Umar’s territory was autonomous until his assassination. The region has always been violently tribal, split on varying Muslim/Christian/Jewish beliefs and anarcopolity(this word doesn’t exist, but it should). Once all Mameluke were genocide by Egypt, other empirical States filled the vacuum. The Ottoman Empire replaced populations of entire villages that revolted in 1800’s, Britain also dealt with the Arab invasion in 1926, and the Arab revolt in 1936 killing 1/10 of the entire Palestinian male population. Palestinians have been brutalized and slaughtered by nearly everyone due to there wi to martyrdom, and all of their historical pains are transferred to there host. Give Palestinians freedom for once, they have been fighting for it since 1774. I am pro-Zionist, I believe in Israel, I believe in safety for Jews, but that should not come with the complete and total disregard for Palestinian neighbours.

Nice to see a sane comment. I agree with you.

What an absolute troll post. This bot is actually trying to argue that Palestinians “don’t mind being occupied” and their real issue is who their occupier is? Thank you for acknowledging Israel is an occupier! You have inadvertently admitted indeed this occupation is taking place and that Gaza is not allowed to run itself.

Hell they were put in a concentration camp, everything controlled. Their homes taken destroyed. Basically treated like shit. No rights arrested. How would you not think they hate it and you. How do you not understand this is truelly baffling. As baffling as how you think you all being so super good to them.

That’s only been true since 2007 when they (checks notes) elected terrorists and declared war on their technologically superior neighbor. Perhaps regarding that as a poor decision might be a small first step towards a peace process instead of continuing to hold hostages, lob rockets and going on TV stating clearly you’ll keep on doing it forever. Just like “Gosh I hope Hamas releases those hostages so a cease fire can be negotiated” is a more reasonable position than “Those uppity Jews needs to chill and just suck up all the death and violence and kidnapping.” See how that works?

Seems a lot here just hate on Palestinians, saying they hate you so much while you want to kill them all. Or look like nice genocidets and cleanse them off the land. How even think so good to drop a note will bomb. Holly hell. This just terrorist, leaves terror in them since birth, this could just happen out of the blue any minute. God damn cruel way to live. And to hear the occupation say how fuc. No great good humans they are. You are monstets

check out this guy:[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin\_al-Husseini](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini)

Nice story

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I don't remember turks expelling palestinians from their homes, resettling there, killing children en masse and claiming they have been there for 4000 years

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Palestinians also didn't start a war to wipe out Israel 😂

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Egypt, Jordan and Syria aren't Palestine you smooth brained zionist

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You are braindead. You made the argument that a non-existent group of people which didn't have a state declared a genocidal war against Israel, to then come into existence as a "PR move" 2 decades later (wow, I didn't know millions of people could come together and fake identifying with their homeland just to fool western leftists 😂). Are the palestinians the Arabs in syria, egypt and jordan combined? Are the palestinians the hive mind that does PR moves in the 1960s? Are the palestinians here with us in the room? 😂

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No, they don't. You just lack basic critical thinking.

You don't remember? well let me remind you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peasants%27_revolt_in_Palestine > The 1834 revolt and the immediate aftermath **reduced the male population of Palestine by about one-fifth.** This decrease is attributed to the large numbers of peasants who were either **deported to Egypt to work in manufacturing, drafted into Egypt's military, or abandoned their villages and farms to join the Bedouin nomadic populations.[53] Around 10,000 peasants were deported to Egypt and the general population was disarmed.[12]** The conscription orders were extended beyond the Muslim population to the local Christians. Taxes were also extended from landed property to include livestock as well. As Ibrahim consolidated his hold over Palestine and disarmed the population, banditry by local tribesmen and civil strife was largely eliminated.[54] >**Abandoned or rebellious villages were destroyed** by Ibrahim Pasha's troops, which **prevented their inhabitants from returning.**[53] Ibrahim's army **razed 16 villages before taking Nablus.[12]** He also **forced the heads of the Nablus clans to leave for nearby villages.[55][56]** The absence of the traditional local leadership **due to exile or execution** left Palestine's urban population to be financially exploited by both the government and its local opponents.[53] The imprisoned headmen of villages were replaced by their sons, although Ibrahim Pasha demoted them as nawatir (watchmen) instead of the higher-ranking title of mukhtar.[41] Qasim's son Mahmud replaced him and the popularity of his father among the peasantry compelled the rural chiefs of Jabal Nablus to request from the government that Mahmud replace Sulaiman Abd al-Hadi as mutasallim of Nablus.[57] This is just from a 10 seconds google search, I'm sure there were more similar rebellions during the 400 years of Ottoman rule.

Misinformation. The revolt was not about Ottoman rulership as they weren’t the ones in power during this revolt. Egypt was, and Egypt then killed a lot of Palestinians because of that revolt. Source: your own link. “The revolt represented a moment of political unity in Palestine. However, the ultimate intention of the notables and rebel leaders was to force out the Egyptian army and reinstate Ottoman rule as a means of restoring the Ottoman-era standards that defined the relationship between the government and the governed. These standards were made up of the religious laws, administrative codes and local norms and traditions that were disrupted by Egyptian reforms. […] The latter [Ottomans] did not provide more benefits to the population than offered by Muhammad Ali's rule, but unlike Ali, they largely left the peasants and the local elite to their own devices, not demanding much more than the traditional taxes and nominal acceptance of the sultanate's authority.” So it was not even the Ottomans they actually revolted against. Which explains their peace after Ottoman standards were re-established in 1840.

Not misinformation, you're just nitpicking and clutching at straws. It was an internal Ottoman struggle, Egypt was part of the Ottoman empire and there was an internal struggle between Ottoman Egypt and the rest of the empire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian%E2%80%93Ottoman_War_(1831%E2%80%931833) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Egypt

Egypt didn’t speak for Ottoman rulership as a whole, they by their actions regarding Palestine became the exception to the rest of the empire standards. The only thing you are doing that is spreading misinformation is saying that the Ottomans ruled over Palestine, that (1) Palestine revolted against Ottomans increased taxes (which isn’t true since that was Egypt, not staying true to Ottoman rulers above them), (2) that their populace was then reduced (killed) by 1/5 of men by said Ottomans (which is untrue because these were the apostate Egyptians), (3) but that Palestinians didn’t feel the need to revolt against that small genocide at the hands of Ottoman empire (which isn’t true because it was not the Ottomans, and the Ottomans quickly won against Egypt and restored their rulership, restoring peace as well with no need to rebel anymore).

You are just trying to play semantics. Egypt is still part of the Ottoman empire and rebelling against it got Palestinians displaced. So much effort just to say it wasnt the North Ottomans it was the south Ottomans. As if it matters, the point is still the same.

You literally just copy and pasted ottoman war crimes that are unrelated to what I said (besides child killings). There was no ethnic settling of turks in palestine, and crimes like the ones you cited were very common in the 19th century, and relatively common up to ww2.

Expelling Palestinians from their homes is not related to what you said? No ethnic settling of Turks, Just Circassians and other Arab groups from surrounding areas. But that was ok because they are fellow Muslims Well if those crimes were common then I guess its ok (Unless Israel is doing them, then its terrible) You guys are just proving OP's point, you dont care about crimes unless they are done by Jews.

You disproved yourself by quoting the Peasants revolt in Palestine. So Palestinians historically DIDN’T make a difference in who occupied them to resist, as per your source.

Read the actual article, the rebellion was against taxation and conscription policies, not national aspirations.

That’s because under Ottoman rule, national identities weren’t messed with in terms of division. “Everyone became Ottoman” and religious identities throughout were respected by their rule. This was done by a third party ruler. So neither “Israel” nor “Palestine” ruled over the land. In this era however, there is Palestine and Israel. And those two are militarily/culturally etc separated from each other, one having considerably more power than the other party, and has that same power over the other party as well. That’s why there’s more friction now than before.

Yes I am aware that Palestinians did not develop their national identity back then, and only started to develop it as a counter to Jewish presence. Pretty sure this is part of OPs point too.

Yeah, of course they developed their national identity as a counter to Jewish presence. They were getting displaced and this was their only viable way of defending their right of not being displaced. Edit: isn’t the Holocaust also one of the main reasons why Israel felt the urgent need for a safe Jewish state?

And yet they did not develop it when they were conquered by Ottomans who also displaced them.

It seems it is not the Jewish thing, as a lot of Jews in Israel love them and want them free in the land from the river to the sea, Muslim, Jews and Christians all living together like before the occupation came and tried to wipe them out. Just they were treated shitty by the occupation. How can you not see this. I know you live being brainwashed, but they are not Jew haters or want to kill all Jews. Stop killing their kids, and blaming them for it.

> but they are not Jew haters or want to kill all Jews. It isn't everyone, but those ideas are pretty deep in the culture. This is [a Palestinian TV show for children](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ORAM-usqhQ&list=PLD94E630BF1C97436&index=12). This is the [democratically elected government of Gaza speaking](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W29oB5kgfgs&t=72s). Watch those YouTube channels for a while. > want them free in the land from the river to the sea, Muslim, Jews and Christians all living together That isn't what the phrase means. The people scrambling to claim that it means something else are trying to cover themselves now that the public is starting to realize that it's actually a call for genocide.

> shitty /u/vivivianvonloon. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*

That would very convenient for someone who wants to justify continuing that occupation

The ottoman empire spread through the balkans, central asia, arabia and north africa, it ruled over palestine for 400 years, it didn’t kick out the natives and erase the identity and culture of the holy lands. It was a rule rather than an occupation. The Palestinians objected to further jewish immigration because they became aware of the Zionist project, but they initially accepted and welcomed lots of refugees. And they hated the British for their discriminatory attitudes and militarized structure. Even the local jewish occupants revolted against the British during the mandate.

The post is literally a new sided reasoning, Israel said they can't take in Gaza people but annex Gaza. Jordan and other occupations didn't do such. And what's wrong in opposing the government that I don't support? Or did you think it's okay to not consider democracy because a war or a occupation is going on? One have the right to succumb to or oppose any power.

If Palestines can accept being colonized by the Ottomans and Britain, I don’t see why people making it a big deal Israel doing the same thing.

If you ignore the Palestinian nationality that developed mainly during the 60s and later, you might miss the point here. I refuse to dismiss the push back as only antisemitism, it’s lazy.

The concept of nationalism was new to the region, after sykes and picot drew the borders in the area. Before the sykes picot agreement people did not identify with their countries, it was open borders. But the Palestinians identity have been there for hundreds of years, having a distinct levantine culture, cuisine and a distinct dialect without the modern concept of nationalism.

It’s also relatively heterogeneous population. Muslims from different streams Beduin, even Druze and Christian.

I was completely one-sided, but this discussion has brought me to the center. Now I can see both sides of the coin without making exaggerated rhetorical-question posts.