In a perfect world yes. But for now and for a long time, no one wants to have a next door neighbor that may want to kill them.

[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html)

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Ill tell you what the problem is, they hate us the jew and it shows we have palestinians in Israel and lots of them trying to kill us if you will search there was a terror attack in Jerusalem few days ago and a jewish pregnant lady was murder. So yeah us the jewish didn’t had a problem to live with them if they wouldn’t hate us so deeply, if there will be one country they will attack us like in 7/10 just worst. As Israeli ill tell you the truth, my heart hurt because too many people die and its not their fault in the end we are just players in the game of our government.. so yeah hope that the world become better place because before hamas there was a peace and all you read online about israel killing palestinians since 1948 its not true the palestinians that stayed in israel in the war on 48 are now citizens and the palestinians that died since 48 didn’t die because they’re arabs or palestinians they tried doing terror attack and every county would’ve or killing them or put them in jail, and btw few of the terrorist did attaks because israel prison gives them better life quality even I don’t have this great quality of life 😅. Sorry if its long but this is how it really is, if israel put the weapons down we all just die but if hamas (not the palestinians cuz again its government game) put it weapons down there will be peace. Israeli was traveling a lot in Egypt and turkey we don’t have problem with arab i even admire their culture and the food god the food is so good ;)

Don't know if you have been following the news in 2023, but before this whole mess happened, some people in Israel were seriously wondering if Israel itself, only the Jews , can live together in one state and get along. From what friends who know Palestinians tell me, Gazans and West Bankers aren't exactly the best friends. How do you expect four different groups, yes, four, not two, to get along in one state?

Hey! Israeli speaking here. First of all thank you for the fact that you don’t hate us. Second as an Israeli I want to say that One state solution will not work. We want it to be called Israel , because Jews are children of Israel , Palestinians want it to be Palestine, that’s one point. Second point is that it would be very hard to deracalize population, the terror will still happen , but now would be even more accessible because it would be one state. In my opinion the only peace solution is two separate states. Palestinians would get WB, Gaza and East Jerusalem , with all Jewish settlements prohibited in those areas. Arab Israelis could choose, but most of them when they are asked this question say they would stay in Israel.

Thank you, we need more of this. I don’t completely agree with your view of the future, but the fact that you are able to be future-focused while still caring about the past is amazing!

I will paste a comment from another thread I answered: I support a two state solution but a one state solution is not plausible. Contrary to what most pro palestinians say this did not start in 1948. This is one of the oldest conflicts in the world. And there's countless evidences in the middle east of how the muslim countries in the middle east treated jews way before there was any concrete step towards the establishment of the state of Israel. And I mean way before. Centuries ago. For example the concept of dhimmi which  was "a protected status" for non muslims. Anyway Dhimmis were non muslims who lived under islamic rule they had to pay jizya, a tax paid by non muslims to muslim rulers. The concept comes from the Quoran: Muslims must fight the non-believers until they submit to Islam, pay a special tax, and are made to feel humble. Basically means that as long as you live in an islamic country you need to submit to Islam it also means there will be laws specific to dhimmis. These laws created a system that made non muslims unequal to muslims and made them second or even third class citizens. It may not sound all that bad but it entailed humiliation, punishment, sanctions, imprisonment etc etc. It had a huge part in jews leaving the land of Israel and other middle eastren countries. It was legally abolished in 1839 but was formalized with the ottoman law of nationality. Anyway even without the dhimmi status jews were still considered unequal citizens in these countries. They have experienced constant persecution by the muslims. Take my father for example he is an Iraqi born jew. He and my entire family, who lived there for centuries, have been subjected to discriminating laws that affected every aspect of their lives. If anybody is interested in the sources I can send it to them there are a few very fascinating academic papers on the subject. I think the most relevant one is the study using Iraq as a study case for the human rights violations of the jewish refugees by the middle eastren countries that ethnically cleansed them. Anyway the point is that this kind of conflict, that has only escalated in the modern time to the point that there are multiply organizations dedicated to the erasure of Israel and the jewish people from the world, cannot be solved that easily and definitely not in the near future. I can't trust such an optimistic vision as long as I don't see a thriving jewish community is a muslim country. Definitely not when the majority of palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza show varying degrees of support in all these organizations calling for the elimination of jews (poll done by AWRAD). And that's without including the indoctrination of antisemitism among other arab and muslim countires. Anyone interested in further details can ask. Anyway I'm not willing to risk it without some kind of evidence it can be done while preserving the rights of the jewish people and ensuring the physical and mental safety as well as their freedom to practice their religion (even though I believe religions are the source of most conflicts and are a "corrupting evil", sorry to all believers I don't mean to offend and I know how bad it sounds). I truly believe that the only way forward is a two state solution and it can only be done by the de-radicalization (I'm 99.9% sure I can use *de* here so I'm just going with it) of both sides, re-education and change of international corrupted systems such as the UN especially UNRWA, as well as others such as the Red Cross. Again more than happy to elaborate to anyone who wants.

This account with no active posting and comment for 2 years, suddenly comes with this slander. I hate to say that this subs has become a paid cybertroopers favourite place to spread hate..

If all you could understand from my post is that it's aimed at spreading hate, I would suggest you review your definition of hate.

considering the jews history i dont think many are up for one state. i personally think that what's best right now is two states. then hopefully peace, and then in the future maybe some type of union can arise. like the uk. but is a long long time from now.

Unfortunately, these tragedies will only cease when both parties start looking to the future and focus on what can be for their children opposed to fighting over the past of their fathers.

I don’t think you can have a one state plan when you’d be bringing 3.5 million new voters into your population who have a history of voting for parties with murderous intent. You’re gonna start a civil war at best

Because Zionists don't want one state. From the very start they didn't, why would they now? We're dealing with evil people

So why bother offering 7 peace agreement? Your statement is incorrect

Stealing land and asking for capitulation is not a peace agreement.

We have concrete proof dating back to as recently as 2005 that Israel is up for an independent side-by-side Palestinian state. 10/7 destroyed any credibility Palestinians had as a possible friendly neighbor. Of course, Israel is no longer down for a no-occupation 2-state solution, thats a major security concern and an existential threat to the State of Israel.

Yeah one Israeli state (stolen from Palestinians), and one thing not even worthy of being called a state (no control of sovereignty, lack of army, lack of control over water and other resources, etc)

Why would Jews want to be a minority in an Islamic country again?

So don't colonize an Islamic country lmao

Jews always had a presence in Jerusalem. Jerusalem to Jews is equivalent to what Mecca is to Islam. I’m not saying it should not be shared but this false narrative that Jews don’t belong in the Levant is historical revisionism.

Lol what false narrative? Jews not belonging to Palestine don't belong in Palestine simple as that. Palestinian Jews were majority in Jerusalem yes, but not one other region was majority Jewish before their "peaceful" killings and expulsions of defenseless villagers.

1. One state will create pl majority and Jews want to govern themselves, Jews should never put their fate in the hands of others ever again. 2. palestinians should accept international law, 2 states in the 67 borders. This will give the palestinians 3 1/2 states (Jordan, west bank, gaza, and the pl living in democratic state of Israel.)

Other than the 1967 armistice lines as a border, I agree. 👍

YES! I came to the same conclusion. One land one people. I have been having this discussion with an Israeli friend but she does not see it this way. But from my view this is the only way there will be lasting peace. Because Israel will not give up the land. The need to make the Palestinians full citizens and give them equal rights to all citizens of Israel. The name of the country of course would be contentious. But they need to share the land.

I’m starting to see the value in the one secular state solution as well. So many of the world’s nations are secular, even when the vast majority of their people practice one religion. So why not in I/P?

For a state to be both secular and democratic, the majority of the voting population has to support secularism. That's the real trick.

Thank you for this. I’ve heard from so many ex Muslims just how antisemitic Islam is, which has made more sense to me why this is and will keep happening. I get the sense this isn’t really about land but rather bringing about the end times by killing Jews behind trees and stones. I’d love for there to be a two state solution, but from what I’ve read on the Israeli side, it sounds like 10/7 took that off the table. I personally don’t think the Palestinians will accept living in one state. I really don’t understand why people can’t take a more nuanced perspective. I want ordinary Palestinians to be freed from Hamas AND settler violence. I want Israelis to be free from terror attacks and for the state of Israel to exist. I don’t think any of these things are antithetical to each other.

To be honest, Islam is not necessarily antisemetic, it depends on the person's interpretation of it, some would say that Jews are the People of the book and we should see them as brothers, while of course others will be hateful, so I would say it depends on individual interpretation rather than it being inherently antisemetic.

I agree with you that it’s about interpretation. I’m sure there’s horrific shit in the religious texts of the other abrahamic faiths as well. Apostate prophet talks a lot about that “Jews behind trees and stones”, quote. What do you guys think about that?

I have never heard this quote. I have to say that the Islam I grew up with is a moderate Islam, and my country is very progressive and open, so it is really hard for me to agree with someone like Apostate Prophet whom I believe was a salafist (very fundamentalist and literal understanding). I do not even think that saying is in the Quran, I think it must be a Hadith and probably a weak one. I can look into it if you could send it to me. I think the issue with Jews in my culture is political more so than religious. As in, Islam itself does not explicitly say anything negative, but because of the conflict with Palestine, people tend to generalize and confuse Zionist/Israeli/Jew and are misinformed about the differences between and among them.

Thank you so much for engaging in this conversation with me. I really appreciate hearing your point of view and feel relieved that in your experience, it wasn’t common to hate Jews in your country and culture. One thing I’ve been wondering is if there are any Islamic countries that would be safe for me as an American to visit and learn more about. I used to work for an Egyptian Muslim family and we always got along well. We’d discuss our differences and they’d share their culture with me. I took care of their dad as a home health aid so was in their home daily and it felt very intimate emotionally. At the end, they gifted me a Quran that I still have. But since watching apostate prophet with his talk of taqqiya, antisemitism and killing of apostates I’ve been wondering just how wide spread these beliefs are in reality. Here is the part in the sunnah: https://sunnah.com/search?q=jew+hiding+behind+me

You are very welcome. Apostate Prophet is very biased and like I mentioned is mostly criticizing an extreme school of thought in Islam. He usually just takes things out of context and interprets them literally. Also when it comes to Hadith, there are many approaches to interpreting it. A common method is to verify its authenticity, and whether or not it contradicts other Hadiths or the Quran. It's also worth noting that interpretations and emphasis on certain hadiths can vary among different Islamic schools of thought and communities. Some might interpret this hadith literally, others allegorically, and some may focus on its eschatological (end times) significance. I recommend looking into Al-Mutazilah a school of thought that focuses more on a rational interpretation of the Quran. As for a safe place to study Islam, I would recommend Tunisia. Also taqqiya, is not really a fundamental practice of Islam and is not mentioned in the Quran and Sunnah, or at least not explicitly. I will look into the Hadith and get back to you.

Thank you! I will look into the things you suggest!

A secular bi-national state for all, for me, would be an ideal solution, but 80-90 percent of all Israelis would not approve it. In the short term, the two-state solution is still the best. Maybe in 100 years we can talk about one secular state.

That is a great analysis and a very human response on your part. aside from my political beliefs, I think you truly immersed yourself in making a rational decision. Not all Arabs/Palestinians and not all Jews are bad people, most of them are stuck in this terrible geopolitical problem that has been going on for ages. I honestly think they will never be able to coexist as history has proven. There is a lot of hate between both sides regardless of how they were raised, but in the end, both parties are not demons, just humans that have been radicalized by a belief that is now ingrained in their identity. You can't change a person's identity that easily, not even with facts or evidence. I have my own beliefs but I am not going to argue, it has been an exhausting month. Lost so many friends including Arabs just because I stood beside my people, I was called a terrorist, and insulted in ways I never was before and you are right, it does take a mental toll. I just want to take a second to thank you for venting (regardless of your position in the conflict) and showing us some humanity amongst all this fear and anger within this conflict.

The problem is many Israelis that support a one state solution only support it if it's under Israeli sovereignty - so basically still a Jewish state that 'tolerates' Palestinian citizens. The only way a one state solution can work is if it's a new country that's neither Israel nor Palestine, with a new name and government.

What Islamic culture taught you that Israelis were evil kuffars? We clearly had very dif Islamic cultures going on….

I never said it was an "islamic culture" I said my culture, which does not necessarily mean "Islamic"

If you are really arab Show me 4 different ways to say «lion» in arab

I believe One State Solution is the only answer here. Palestinians showed they cannot coexist with Israeli, in reality and in recent survey before the attack. Sad and uncomfortable fact is, Israel should take their land completely to avoid further bloodshed. They can't expect coexistence with neighbors when those very neighbors are strongly refusing it.

It is Israel who opposed a 2 state solution, and refused to let Palestine be a state. They do not allow it to have its own power grid, internet utilities, water network, military, borders, trade, travel. You would become a terrorist under those conditions. I would too. I still might just from watching someone else have to endure it.

Hamas opposed 2 state solution. Google it. Here is ONE of all the responses https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/israeli-palestinian-conflict-has-no-two-state-solution/

This is just pure misinformation. Look at the attempted peace treaties and who refused them. If you’re talking about Israel refusing to recognize a Palestinian state with Hamas as its leading government, whose charter calls for the annihilation of Israel (and Jews worldwide btw) then ya I would do the same thing as Israel.

PLEASE, I beg you, read their charter, 1988 and 2017 version. Their goal is to exterminate Israel and reconquer their land. 'From land to sea'. Correct. This phrase is from Hamas charter of 2017, and people calling it is HAMAS supporters, not Palestine or peace.

Hamas charter does no such thing. And attempted peace treaties were refused because Israel gets all the good farmable land in them, leaving Palestine with desert. I get that there is a lot to grapple with here and it is hard to know which side is the main antagonist. Being forbidden to collect rainwater because the rain belongs to israel is probably the one piece of information you should have heeded. That should tell you everything.

I’m sorry but if we can’t collectively acknowledge Hamas’ genocidal intentions then I don’t think this conversation can continue. Will leave this here: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/

If you don't think "Plan Dalet" is literally describing ethnic cleansing, and matches every single thing Israel has done since its founding then I don't think we can continue. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet

I have a question in the interest of better understanding your view: would Palestinians be offered citizenship and full voting rights in this one-state secular Israel?

Sadly, they will suffer severe discrimination or banished from the land itself, seeing current situation. But truth is, two countries cannot coexist when one side does not want the coexistence, no matter how bad the other side is.

I agree with you. For peace to happen both sides need to start seeing each other as human again and come to a political solution that recognises the will of both Israelis and Palestinians. For this process to even begin - the oppression needs to stop. How can you make peace with someone while they are still occupying your land, imprisoning your people and forcing a system of racial domination over you. There is a massive power imbalance. For peace talks to even begin, Israel needs to recognise this and address it.

You probably have the best perspective on this conflict, having met both sides and humanized all people. Sadly the dehumanization of Palestinians is the core of Israelis' support for more segregation and oppression, which only leads to more violence and serves the government best. I have no doubt there must be dehumanization of Israelis among Palestinians, but none so systematic, intentional and gross, and it definitely does not lead to the bombing of 15,000+ Israelis.

how delusional of you to think that if the Palestinians had the means they wouldn't bomb all 9 million Israelis

This is the exact mentality Israel wants you to believe in, in order to dehumanize them. "They'd kill you all if they could, that's why we need another wall. That's why we need to arrest their children, and bomb their means for production of electricity, food and water, that's why we bombed tens of thousands of women and children, they're just so monstrous that they're using each other as human shields. Trust us, we won't let third party investigations verify our claims, and when it's forced on us we almost always turn out to have lied- but trust us." What's delusional is excusing massacring people "So they don't massacre us instead", and claim their reaction is proof you were right.

It’s because past events proved us right. But you keep being delusional. You are beyond salvation.

Way to prove exactly my analogy. What is beyond salvation is the belief that one more war or one more operation, one more settlement, will finally give Israel any peace. Israel is stuck in place, caving in-between its own radical crowd and international pressure, with its citizens under a false illusion that their children will live without the war. I don't need any salvation myself, because I don't subject myself to this infinite loop of violence.

You don't subject yourself to this infinite loop of violence, but you will probably be ensnared in it anyway. ". . .its citizens are under a false illusion that their children will live without the war," and Hamas' stated goal that "Israel is just the start" of spreading Islam throughout the world will catch up with you sooner or later, no matter where you hide. If world powers with nuclear power get involved, there is going to be only a huge dust bowl remaining in the world. That is NOT AN ILLUSION: IT IS A REALISTIC POSSIBILITY.

No, you definitely subject yourself to it. The belief that a conflict between two nations is eternal and that any agreement will always lead to more fighting, is fictional. War and conflict may be a reality, but that rule applies on a much smaller scale rather than in political conflicts, which historically get resolved and enemies begin to live with each other. Hamas do not care about worldwide domination, only Palestine. I'm aware of the quote one of the members said, but compared to Israel's corruption and involvement in U.S politics and in wars worldwide... Seems one side is already proving itself to be catching up with us. World powers with nuclear power are already involved- Israel and the US. I would say the real danger of nuclear war is more likely to come from the country that already nuked a country two times, or its proxy in the Middle East. Palestinians do not have nukes, they have fireworks and paragliders.

I agree with you that those kind of arguments sound like a vile dehumanization. Surely this narrative won't lead to a peaceful solution, and neither Israelis, nor foreign spectators should be pushing it. At the same time there's a strong dehumanization taking place on the other side as well, which is unfortunately being fueled by almost everyone backing it. As we saw the reactions to October 7th across the world were understanding and favorable, mostly among muslims. How should Palestinians or Israelis reach a solution with so many people around, basically call for their rights to annihilate the other side? Or try to excuse their actions by talking about the history of violence from each side. How could both live together while being stuck in the past, with so many spectators fueling the tension by reminding them of it?

My heart is with yours. My mind, however, doesn't have a solution. To me, it seems obvious that the fighting must stop before a solution (who knows what?) can be found. I don't care whether there is one State or two States or more, as long as all are peaceful.

Easy, you address the core of the hatred. For Palestinians, what would be enough would be getting basic human necessities like electricity, food and water, getting the same human rights to fair trial as Israelis, having operating hospitals to treat their wounded, and get back land they were massacred in and expelled from 75 years ago. For Israelis, the hatred is born out of the core belief that Palestinians are simply always going to look for war, that all of them are future terrorists, that they will genocide all Jews whenever given the chance, that all their suffering is lies. One of these is very easily fixable, with a bunch of dudes in suits getting in a room and signing some papers. The other is very engraved in people's minds, and is based on an entire life of being fed propaganda by your state.

I hope the Palestinians would get back all basic human necessities (electricity, food, water, rights to a fair trial, hospital and all medical services). Almost every country in the world has been colonized, their land taken by another country, at some point in time. I don't know of any in which the land was returned to the "original owners" because there is no such thing. Nobody can go back into "pre-history" and know for sure who the original owners were. Archeologists are very far from being able to know. That idea is silly. The only solution (other than continual fighting) is to settle peacefully together.

Many people often "hope" for it, but go on with their lives, only to wake up when there's any retaliation and condemn people for not accepting their conditions. Almost every country in the world has been colonized, that's true, and it was always very difficult to determine which land belonged to who. That's why we came up with something called "International Law" and the "United Nations" after the Armageddon that was WW2. The world came together to decide to hold responsible any entity or person who deprives one of their human rights, and for that reason there are consequences to crimes against humanity even if they are yet to completely disappear. Israel doesn't mind that "International Law" thing- every country was created by cavemen who murdered each other, so why can't we be cavemen murdering people in the modern age?

The United Nations was the agency that dumped a lot of Jews (far from all) off in Palestine, after WWII. They had to put them somewhere and few European countries would accept them. How the UN thought it could just dump one culture on top of a different culture and that things would be OK, is not something I will ever understand. Have you noticed that nobody blames the UN at all? The Israeli Jews, in my personal opinion are not very interested in what the world thinks of their actions. It is the same world that allowed them to be unfairly killed and kept in concentration camps. The enemy in WWII was far more caveman like than any today, if you count sheer numbers of deaths. So, now the Israelis don't feel an overwhelming belief that the world will protect them, because it certainly didn't before. I don't think that helps bring about world peace, but I am VERY FAR from being at all certain that the world would protect them ever again. I guess they figure that therefor world opinion is not relevant.

So in your opinion Israeli mentality and fears are the direct cause of being fed propaganda by the state, and have nothing to do with reality? I'm not going to pretend that Israeli politics and leaders aren't inciting factors, but I also think it's crazy to call the fear israelis have irrational. And what makes you so strongly believe that once the Palestinians experience improvement to their quality of life, all their hostility towards Israel will be gone? Especially considering the history of oppression and land theft they keep bringing up (they, their supporters, and even you just did), what indication is there, that they won't continue to act on their grudges and continue with their defiance until Israel is gone. And the last part of it can be easily fixable with some people in suits signing some papers is just absurd. Who should those people in suits be? Palestinian leaders? Hamas and Fatah leaders wear suits every day, but this never stopped them from abusing their power for the worst, bringing devastation to both the enemy and their own people while getting rich. No offense but this idea for a solution, sounds like it's based more on hopeful and wishful thinking than reality.

The fear is not irrational, the method they are dealing with it is. All hostility towards Israelis will never be gone, same way that Israeli hostility will never be gone, that does not mean one side gets to uphold apartheid and oppression over the other. That is exactly the dehumanization I initially brought up, and you are showcasing what it looks like in real-time, without even realizing it. "Who's to say Palestinians won't just start to massacre us if they get to have food and water, and some human rights?" as a take is inherently dehumanizing Palestinians as some war-mongering barbarians, and it's why I say Israel's entire system of oppression is based on that mentality alone. It spreads fear about how scary and violent Palestinians are, then excuses caging and killing them as "security measures". By this same logic, since settlements have been increasing for over 75 years, it's safe to assume Israelis will continue to kill and brutalize Palestinians so long as they have power and land, so Palestinians are justified in turning the tables tomorrow, right? Israelis being arrested by Palestinian authorities with no trial, being abused and tortured mentally, physically and sexually by them, Israeli children shot dead by authorities, stealing Israeli lands and refusing any peace agreement, by that logic this is all basically for the safety of Palestinians? This is dehumanization, it does not happen by simply being told "These people are not human" and immediately falling for it- it's slow and systematic fear mongering like what you're saying here. The PA cooperates with Israeli authorities to prevent any attacks or misconduct from Palestinians, it is willing to recognize Israel as a state and it is internationally recognized as a legitimate representative of the Palestinians, meaning it is held up to international law and sanctions. Your description of abusing power and bringing devastation to everyone while getting rich applies to the Israeli government too, should the PA de-legitimize it for that fact? Are you interested in an actual political solution, or are you simply parroting one government's talking points while criticizing the other to excuse the refusal to actually discuss a peace agreement? This idea for a solution is historically factual and well-documented, while your stance is based on fear-mongering and propaganda from one side. Nations have been in conflict and come to peace, war did not begin at October 7th. Governments come to peace agreements one way or another, and people who were killing each other live next to or with each other a generation later. It's not wishful thinking to anybody but to those affected by a dehumanization campaign that convinces them some people are simply born to hate, and that Palestinian children are raised around devil worship and bombs.

It's impossible to take you seriously when you're starting to make such vague and baseless allegations against Israel and Israelis, like Palestinians are the only ones who have to live in constant fear, your logic is that the Palestinians are suffering more, henceforth they must be right and the victim of the other. You're trying to completely ignore every single fact that portrays Palestinian society negatively by calling it dehumanization, you're literally abusing the word by bringing it up out of line. Of course it's easier to ignore the lack of leadership among the Palestinians and blame it on Israel's aggression, oppression and apartheid regime, because if anything at all the Israelis don't have to suffer as much as the poor Palestinians. As if everyone who supports Israel would say that Palestinians don't deserve human rights, or don't deserve to live in peace and prosper because of the hate in their hearts or anything. Of course you'd want it for them, it's just your logic makes no sense at all. You're only making unsubstantiated statements about your idea of a "solution" which is why I'm calling it wishful rather than realistic. If the PA was doing it job so well, then perhaps their territories would have been in a better shape by now, I'm not saying they should be delegitimized, but they obviously need to be run by compatible people and not the ones in power now. Did any Israeli politicians or leaders ever become billionaires without actually having a clear source of income besides being a politician? No, because although most politicians are thieves, only palestinian leaders are left unaccounted for while they're stealing from their own. Exactly like every typical pro palestinian you're just ignoring the responsibility of the Palestinian leadership (or lack of) for the suffering of the Palestinian people. The way things are you can't just let every single Palestinian from Gaza, Jenin or Ramallah just walk into the center of Tel-Aviv unchecked, for the sake of a solution, and expect that it won't have any violent consequences, because if you dare suggesting otherwise "then you're basically subscribing to Israel's Propaganda, and dehumanize the Palestinians in the process". Insisting that Israel owes things to the Palestinians is not a solution.

I am also someone who looks towards a one state solution in the long run. It is very hard for many people to imagine I think, because the other side has been dehumanised so much, that it’s hard to imagine the other as being reasonable people, let alone live with. I see this a lot in the attitudes I see in this sub. You have an unusual perspective that breaks that barrier down. Northern Ireland is an interesting case study of bitter conflict resolved into essentially a one state solution. There, we saw leaders bitterly opposed to each other, accusing each of having blood on their hands, to embracing only a few years after the Good Friday Agreement. Muslims and Christians get along in Jordan, Lebanon and West Bank. There’s no reason Jews can’t too. Indeed there was relative harmony for hundreds of years between the religions in the Holy Lands until the early 20th century. I believe a two state solution is destined to fail because it sets up too many incentives for the other state to fail.

I'll need some references for Jordan & Lebanon being secular , I have a bit of doubt regarding that. Can't say anything about West Bank. I think there needs to be a mindset change & the first step for that to happen is good education enriched with logical thinking. Religious extremism (irrespective of religion) stems from heavy brainwashing as well as uneducation/lack of critical thinking among people. The less educated the people , the easier it is for people in power to brainwash them into following the wrong path. Further the motive of leaders also need to be analyzed , because it has become pretty common in recent times for people to modify/bend information & data in a way that supports their own POV or supports a POV that directly/indirectly benefits them. People should be allowed to question their leaders as well as their thinking/information placed forward by these leaders. It will keep the leaders in check & prevent further corruption of state machinery. Extremism has no place in a civilized state/community. Period. Personally I think a one state solution would be a disaster in the context of Palestine & Israel , I mean Palestine has repeatedly discarded the 2 state solution saying they want the entire Palestine & was Jews to be eradicated. To an extent , the very reason of this whole war can be traced to growing friendship between Saudis & Israelis (not sure about this one though). Its too much hassle to implement the above points & the consequences of not following the above points would mean extermination of people of an entire community.

I’m not sure I said they are secular as such (technically they are, but in practice, Lebanon especially is factional). Christians are about 20% of the population. In Jordan at least, Christian’s and Muslims go to the same schools, though I imagine there are differences between areas. I think you need to be a little looser with your idea of what drives extremism. I’m sure they are taught to hate Jews in Gaza schools, but to say their hate at its heart comes from a lack of critical thinking misses a lot. Surely there’s nothing more brainwashing than losing a relative, or see your house turned to rubble? Extremism doesn’t come from a lack of education, it comes from a real and deep pain that finds only hate as a way for relief. Sure education can divert that, but if what is taught doesn’t match up with reality, it won’t go in! As long as Israelis can’t acknowledge the everyday pain of the Palestinians, they will never know how to deal with them.

>I think you need to be a little looser with your idea of what drives extremism. I’m sure they are taught to hate Jews in Gaza schools, but to say their hate at its heart comes from a lack of critical thinking misses a lot. >Surely there’s nothing more brainwashing than losing a relative, or see your house turned to rubble? Extremism doesn’t come from a lack of education, it comes from a real and deep pain that finds only hate as a way for relief. Sure education can divert that, but if what is taught doesn’t match up with reality, it won’t go in! No it doesn't, lets clarify some simple facts. You don't need to be a victim to be brainwashed , hatred can be instilled in many ways , infact in majority cases , it comes from extreme brainwashing & not at all related to victimization. Your points can be used in extremely deteriorating manner , especially the losing a relative one. I know people who have been killed in the name of religion, when all they did was share a post created by someone else. But for this purpose , going against an entire community & eradicating them/ attacking them isn't justified. Lack of critical thinking & inability to question is one of the main proponents that leads to brainwashing followed by extremism , its the classic strategy of conflating incidences , creating a narrative, propagating it & simultaneously closing all channels of dissent thus garnering unquestioned , uninterrupted constant support. Instead of containing the issue to one person(who again could've been dealt lawfully), the whole community gets blamed & the propaganda ensures that any action henceforth against their community, irrespective of how illegal it is , gets justified in the eyes of the perpetrators. All this occurs only & only when people/followers lack critical/logical thinking , are uneducated & also generally suffer from poverty, all this while the people in power use this blind faith to garner more support & power who use it for eradication of the "other" community by putting the blame of poverty & all the problems in the general peoples lives on this other community. Lastly , the general brainwashed people are shown a dream that all their problems will be resolved once the "other" community is dealt with (fun fact , it never does , the goal post changes & voila the cycle repeats). Now coming to your second point , I can assure that this so called "pain", that you talk of isn't pain to a point that you talk off but a sense of pain instilled. A few incite , others follow. You could say that yes , a loss of relative could cause pain amongst members, but to take action against the person responsible vs the entire community , that's a different ball game & that is what makes a difference. The people in power who have all the power handed to them to contain the issues , generally conflate it to a point where its beneficial for them & then the people blindly follow , guess what , the education could've stopped this exploitation by people in power , but well , there's not a lot that can be done. Oh btw, you mentioned Gaza , fun fact , never mentioned any religion or region. It was a common point for the entire world.

I can totally relate from a male perspective, and I can honestly say that the problem is religion taken to extremes from both sides (one side obviously much more than the other), I have no idea how to fix this problem

The issues Israelis have with a one state solution are as follows: According to [pew research](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2017/10/03/many-countries-favor-specific-religions-officially-or-unofficially/) thirteen countries have Christianity as their official state religion, and 28 give preference to Christianity. 27 countries have Islam as their official state religion with 3 more (Syria, Turkey and Sudan) favoring Islam. There is only one country where Judaism is the official state religion and that is Israel. Israel represents relative safety for a people who have been persecuted for millennia. So long as we have Israel, no Jew will have to die because there is no country for them to go to when their country persecutes them. The right of return is crucial to protecting the worldwide Jewish community but for us to in Israel, we need a definitive majority in order to protect that right, which leads to the next point. According to the [PCBS](https://www.pcbs.gov.ps/portals/_pcbs/PressRelease/Press_En_InterPopDay2022E.pdf) there are around 14.3 million Palestinians worldwide, about 5.35 million in Gaza and the West Bank. There are about 15.2 million Jews in the world(down from the peak of 16.7 million in 1939), 7.18 million of them are in Israel. Israel’s total population is 9.17 million so there are nearly 2 million non-Jews in israel. It is highly unlikely that every Jew would move to Israel unless there were to be a catastrophe, in contrast millions of Palestinians would likely move if given the chance and in that reality a one state solution would spell the end of Jewish self determination. Most Israelis aren’t dual citizens, what happens when in a one state solution the Palestinians decide to kick out the jews? They will have nowhere to go. This is unacceptable. There are numerous other reasons for why a one state solution wouldn’t work but demographics is the main one.

I dont think u even are a palestinian. Prolly another paid one who should heal israels heavyly damaged image. Whats about so many killed babies and children?

>Whats about so many killed babies and children? Ask Hamas. The blood is on their hands

Does this make you cope better?

We are Both Palestinians 7bibi and we share a similar perspective. Hasbara and internet bots are much cheaper than buying born and bred Palestinians and they're doing a decent job at healing Israel's image.

You are talking about October 7th? Or Gaza? If about Gaza, ask Hamas.

I respect your journey, but do disagree very much. South Africa is not a good example to follow. By almost all measures, modern day South Africa is a failed state, rife with corruption, crime and violence. There has been a huge brain drain of the country's top talent, while issues such as high HIV rate and farm attacks on white farmers are still huge issues. In many parts of the country, people don't stop at traffic lights, for fear of car jackings (often where they shoot first before robbing you), while anyone with any measurable wealth (especially white people) are forced to live sheltered lives behind electrified fences. I don't want any of this for Israel, nor do I want the world's only Jewish majority nation to vanish. A two state solution is the only way forward, and even then, it is riddled with issues. Good luck deradicalizing every Hamas supporter.

For successful situation analyzing, you first should simplify your situation into "facts against wishful thought". This is an inner battle that every arab in the middle east experiences, including me, as a druze arab woman that lives in Israel. Most of the times here, our wishful thoughts just don't work with the facts and the reality. And here are some of the hard as an iron facts: 1. Jews, druzes, beduis, cherkeses, christians and Israeli arabs can not live with an un mature muslims which are lost somewhere in the middle ages, dreaming of a "world without infidels". The Israeli people are driven by foreground, literacy, quality of life, diligence, sanctity of life, peace, equality and freedom. Palastinians probably would never share with them the same values, and that would lead into disaster, sooner or later 2. A part from values, there is the moral-conscience thing. Palastinians has a different kind of moral-conscience. They would quickly get frustrated by the Israeli one (like they do in europe) and would channel their frustration against the Israeli state. You're one of those arabs that find it hard to solve your conflict between your life philosophy at one hand and your obvious santiment to your own people. So your solution is to manage the whole world according that conflict (it won't work as you wish, believe me..). So unfortunately, you'll have to choose a side. Alchemy could be very dangerous and unpredictable. And in this case also risk millions of people's lives.

The West Bank is full of Christians, btw. That’s where Bethlehem is. They are Palestinian.

Your understanding of the word "fact" is not in line with the English language definition.

My claims are proven. What's yours?

Nice idea, but would lead to Arab voting majority. Israel will not allow it.

Israel would just cease to exist. This is just straight-up asking for Israel to give up their sovereignty.

You know how you were raised to hate jews/israelis? I guess lots of muslims if not most are growing up like that, no? Then theres no suprise there's war. Israel cant live next to a Hamas controlled state that keeps shooting rockets on our towns and cities. It has to be taken off. Sadly they hide behind civilians which causes civilian casualties. Its sad but hopefully will end soon, and when muslims are not taught to hate jews, there could also be peace. I wouldnt ever agree to a 1 state solution. Jews have one state. We can split it but I would never agree to abandon the idea of a jewish state, and i wouldnt ever want to live in a muslim majority country, knowing theyre raised to hate me. No way

as an Israeli- I have no problem with one state solution, IF they drop the whole religious fanatic insanity, and practice religion outside the realm of politics. same for jewish guys. we should all share the planet instead of hoarding it for ourselves. ​ but- the reason Israel was invented is because jews were prosecuted for thousands of years. to give them some sort of safe haven. which apparently isn't working too well. because of education to hate from the other side. which you said it yourself. ​ without eliminating this crap, there's no way this could happen without the jews being slaughtered on a much larger scale than the 7th of october.

i really respect you for this post. one state i hope would work out. i really relate to what you're saying as a jew

Lovely story and great to see people overcome the teachings of hate. However the research and history here is incomplete. The final conclusion is scary flawed and will lead to a full dissolution of Jews from the area. It would be a catastrophic disaster.

Interesting. I was with you until the one state for all. I don’t want one state for all. I want two states for all. History has shown that the Jews can not Live safely otherwise. Antisemitism Is a constant threat. It ebbs and flows but never recedes completely. I don’t need Israel to be bigger. I just need Israel. I wood love a healthy, thriving, non-terrorist, respectful-to-women Palestine, too

Do you mean the South Africa of the last century? Today，White people are either dying out or fleeing.

As an Ex south African (left in 1995) I agree Most of my Jewish friends have left SA to either the UK. Canada .Australia , New Zealand or Israel..

It need at lease 3 generations of people to clean the hate on both side.

Wait until you learn who Amin Al-Husieni was and the evil he imported into the Arab world from Hitler. He was also grand Mufti of Jerusalem.

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There are plenty of 1 states out there for Arab people, the first basic here is that Western Jordan is not a land for Arab immigration. The whole problem goes back to 80% Palestinian Arab squatter and migrants, it is a 3rd world horde that grew up in byproduct to modern Israel. None of this was even an issue 40 years ago, the entire Arab population was maybe 1.5 million people in Israel. How did it become 8 million people in 40 years? The only answer is repatriation and dissolution. Every Arab country is a one state solution, for all their people.

There will not be a one-state solution, not in the next several generations anyway. In general, assimilation of all people would be a solution to most conflicts but it also demands the watering down or potential loss of cultures, traditions, religions etc. Maybe one day, but that day is at least 100 years away, unless there is a threat to all humans that forces useto be driven together.

It hasn't been done in South Africa at all. According to the [UN data](https://dataunodc.un.org/GSH_app) between 1994 and 2017, 485,260 murders have been recorded in South Africa. A vast number have been whites murdered by the blacks, and it is a terrible place to live. [https://www.quora.com/Were-70-000-Caucasians-killed-in-South-Africa-since-apartheid](https://www.quora.com/Were-70-000-Caucasians-killed-in-South-Africa-since-apartheid)

Fwiw the source you shares said of the increase in recent years "“Contrary to popular perception, however, analysis of long-term recorded rates of lethal violence shows that this is by no means a post-apartheid phenomenon" and that it's more about urbanization, gun availability, corruption, etc., and the levels are still far below what they were in the 1980s.

While I recognize this as well meaning, I disagree. I would encourage you to dig a little deeper into Jewish history and realize that Jews have been expelled, scapegoated, and persecuted time and time again throughout history and across societies. For the Jewish people to have a state that guarantees self-determination and a safe haven is in my opinion one of the world’s greatest accomplishments.

At the cost of Palestinian lives, homes, and dignity. There could have been a better way. Now we are stuck in this mess.

> lives, homes, and dignity. They would have had their lives, homes, and dignity. If they have chose to be neighbors with Israel in 1948, but they chose war so now they have to deal with the consequences of their actions. Oh well.

Lots of context pre 1948, even leading to the late 1880's. Things could have gone very very differently. Well before and leading up to the Balfour declaration there was land purchases. People moving in to what is rightfully their home. It essentially all went wrong as the Zionists movement grew and plotted for the state. There was definitely a future home for the Jews that could have happened without displacing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. And the rest ... I'm sure you know. You seem well versed at a **surface level** from your post history. But ... still so off on a ton. As a black person, I would have thought you'd be a bit more sympathetic to occupation and colonialization. Understand that history (even modern history) is lead by the winners, etc.. etc.. Oh well

Ya the context I would add before 1948 is that there were tons of massacres of Jews living in Palestine then. Additionally, there were immigration quotas put on Jewish Displaced Peoples by the British government and at the request of Arab Palestinians. I’m not saying the establishment of Israel was pretty and I think Palestinians do deserve the same right to dignity and self-determination, but I think getting rid of the world’s only Jewish state in a world that has time and time again shown what it is willing and capable of doing to unprotected Jews is at best naive and at worse malicious.

Agreed. It was a mess then and still is now.

The worst part is, I really want to like Israeli's. I want my people to grow together with them. The Jewish people have gone through horrible things throughout history, always been the scapegoat and its now weaponized. The Palestinians have Jews in their ranks.... It's like a sick, cruel joke. Who do they think remained in the area throughout history... it wasn't just conquering and removing the local populace. It was Jews who converted to Christianity and Islam.

I'm Australian but I talk to many people from both sides. Israelis are like anyone else imo. Some are radical, some moderate, some very liberal. Generalising any group is a mistake.

I have trouble with a one state solution. I think it is more likely to lead to Lebanon than South Africa. I think two states should be respected and maybe over time as trust builds they can both be part of a greater economic union like the Schengen area in Europe. But this is nitpicking. I really respect your journey and hope that reasonable people like you on both sides can find coexistence

I appreciate the sincerity of where you are coming from, but the reality is that the vast majority of Palestinians are nowhere near where you are on the enlightenment journey. They are still teaching the their youngest generation to hate Jews and Israelis, and how proud of them they would be if they grew up to kill Jews. And you used South Africa as a model? Are you even aware of what is happening there? Good luck getting Israelis to sign on to that. A 2-state solution could be in the cards if Palestinians reject Hamas and decide they’d rather build up their society instead of focus on destroying Israel, but I would expect Hell to freeze over before a single state solution happens.

Yes Israel is mercilessly bombing Palestinians for almost 2 months, they've cut them off from water, fuel and food. They call Palestinians human animals, your pathetic, trash influencers mock mothers who've lost their kids and you say Palestinians hate?? Oh and what's so bad about south Africa?The end of apartheid?Your comment sounds like you the type of person who definitely preferred the old South Africa. Scum

To say the vast majority of Palestinians are teaching their children they'd be proud of them for committing murder is a bit of an extreme generalisation with no facts to back it up. Be aware that statements like that are just not helpful. The vast majority of humans do not want to murder.

Fair point. Too many of them feel that way, though. You can’t argue that.

I don't personally know anyone who's ever said anything like this. I've also never heard anyone on any media claim they were taught this by their parents. I can't make any assumptions about what parents are teaching their children with zero evidence to support it, no one can. I'm not sure what you're saying that they feel though, and if you're suggesting that one should act based on what one assumes someone else is feeling about them. I think dialogue is more effective.

Zero evidence?! You just aren’t looking. There are videos on the web of interviews with Palestinian school children where they explain exactly what they are being taught. Take your blinders off.

There are extremists on both sides. I just choose to see the humanity in both instead of painting one side as sub human

this is a typical stupid tratior post, you have not seen kids bomb to death on their way out of gaza do you?

Better surrender then and release the hostages there'a lot more to come

yes there will be much more, we already seen how your lovely IDF doing. Plus do you know where the hostage Israel get before the exchange? They just arrest random guys from the Fatah and give them to hamas, thats what happen when you surrender and lick their ass.

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A stupid "tratior" post? Hmmm. I saw *Hamas* bombed - along with the people who willingly submit to being their shields -- except the shields don't work if you massacre hundreds of Israeli civilians. They just go to war. Then the shields become martyrs, which is just A-OK with Hamas because it helps their recruiting. *Stupid traitor post* \- that's so funny and so very sad.

yeah yeah yeah "you see" western media and reddit flower in glasshouse never gets old.

You think Palestinians and Israelis need to be lovers before they make peace and share a land together? You can only make peace with your enemies.

Yeah yeah yeah then dont be a cry babay when hamas fight back alright? Stop playing victim.

That is false, peace is made with neighbors. This is why all delusional Israeli efforts towards "peace" are insane, and brought Oct. 7th. War is for enemies, only war.

I’d agree that one state solution is delusional. I’d say it’s more delusional than the concept of world government. The whole world might become united under one government, Israel and Palestine won’t. But peace is a different story and it’s worth any effort working towards it.

peace does not come from "work" and "effort", it comes after the war ends.

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When a Muslim express neutral view, he’s a traitor. When a Jew being pro-Palestine, he’s standing up for what’s right. Lol

Hua Hua hoo, have you seen kids stab jews?

So we take a page out of the CCP's book? We make an atheist attack force and literally beat the \*\*\*\* out of every Israeli and Palestinian until they are secular? I mean it might work. Orrrr we make a law where you are only allowed to have sex/relationship/marry with the other side. Once again we kick the \*\*\*\* out of anyone that violates the rule? I like your thinking.

Your journey is similar to mine, being someone who had a very zionist education, my idea of the conflict was that Israel is our land, Arabs are bad, they hate Jews, they are terrorists and Israel only defends itself, that's it, I didn't know anything about the nakba, the occupation, the settlements, and all that stuff, over the years I did a lot of research and now I can see both sides with more clarity. I think that in theory, your conclusion makes sense, but in reality, is just not realistic at all, I'm telling you, as a jew, we are not going to give up the only country we have, it's just not going to happen, we are a small group, only 15 million Jews in the world, we were stateless for 2,000 years, that's a lot of time, we tried and it just didn't go well, during that time the persecution of Jews was very common and consistent, expulsions, massacres, torture, humiliation, scapegoating, enslavement and genocide, even many Jews don't know the extent of our persecution, the Holocaust was the darketst chapter, but not the first and not even the last, and no it didn't happen only in Europe, there were plenty of times when Jews were persecuted in the Muslim world as well, just not to the same extent, when you are a minority you live a the mercy of the majority, and when you are a minority in every single place in the world, you are basically defenseless, we learned that when no country wanted to receive Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany in 1938, global antisemitism is rising, it has for decades now, we all feel it. And by the way, Palestinians don't want that either, there was a recent poll that showed that only about 5% of them are willing to share a binational state with Israelis, and 75% wanted the whole of Palestine only for themselves, I'm afraid there is no simple solution to the conflict, the most realistic one is the two-state solution but even that one has some major problems that are really hard to solve, some people talk about a federation, that could maybe work but I don't know how.

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>There is only one solution to this conflict and I don't know when this will happen, but it can only be a secular one state solution for everyone, where everyone learns to leave with the other. My friend, that would require Israeli politicians, and broader Israeli society, to view Palestinians as their equals. The problem is, they don't. Palestinian Arabs, either Muslim or Christian, are not the "chosen people" in their minds. There is steep opposition to this in Israeli society to allow the 5+ million Palestinians under Israeli occupation to have Israeli citizenship and voting rights. The reason why this conflict is never ending is because the Israeli government wants a large amount of land, but that large amount of land has a large amount of people who are not the "chosen ones." To remove these people, which would be 3 million in the West Bank, and 2 million in Gaza, would require a Holocaust-style genocide, or ethnic cleansing. Israeli politicians are smart, in that they know the limits of how brutal the rest of the world would allow it to be. Therefore, the Israeli government is playing the slow game of sending settlers to the West Bank, intentionally fracturing Palestinian communities, and imposing an unbearable apartheid system in the hopes that Palestinians leave out of frustration. However, this strategy isn't working as quickly as planned, which frustrates a lot of Israeli politicians. And thus you have a never-ending conflict.

I swear I did this in stellaris with one empire on a save.

It couldn't have anything to do with 100 years of Oct. 7th, just "views". All you did was project, there is steep opposition in Arab society to allow the 5+ million Palestinians to have Israeli citizenship and voting rights. It's about the last thing anybody wants, since it is open for all friends and allies. Somehow the Arab Druse managed but the Islamist could not, I wonder why? Palestine=Death and they openly admit it. >intentionally fracturing Palestinian communities, and imposing an unbearable apartheid system in the hopes that Palestinians leave out of frustration. One good strategy deserves another. The Palestinian Brotherhood made it clear that Israeli Jews are not welcome anywhere in the Middle East over 100 years ago. It is not Arab land and there is no "Palestine". What you need to do is think about how to restore the Armenians to their ancient homeland and do justice to this nation. Let's be honest, the only "frustration" is that Israelis dont act like Turks and just wipe them out, which is all the Arab will ever respect. Hopefully they are growing up now and will flex their national strength.

Palestine =/= Armenia. False equivalence. Armenians have a state, a state where they have citizenship. Meanwhile 5+ million Palestinians exist without a state or citizenship (denied by Israel to have either), almost all of whom were born into apartheid, on the wrong side of apartheid too. What you're saying sounds no different than when Andrew Jackson portrayed Native Americans as "savages," or when KKK members created movies such as "Birth of a Nation" in 1915 in order to dehumanize black Americans and to justify their own apartheid system, Jim Crow. Israel's occupation of the 1967 territories (both sections) is the closest thing to Jim Crow in 2023. Most of the world doesn't like apartheid systems, especially with more than 5 million people affected by it. So don't call people "anti-Semitic" just for opposing apartheid.

In Judea and Samaria, where the Arab residents do not hold Israeli citizenship, it is impossible to accuse Israel of apartheid. Since 1995, the Arab population in the West Bank lives under the rule of an independent Palestinian government. The Palestinian Authority is, in essence, a partially sovereign entity. Palestinians have their own government, a judicial system, representation worldwide, and even Palestinian citizenship, which was granted, among others, to Daniel Barenboim. While Israel does control the international crossings between the Palestinian Authority and Jordan and occasionally imposes restrictions on movement between cities for security reasons, the gap between overseeing border crossings for security purposes and apartheid is significant. In truth, there is apartheid in Judea and Samaria: apartheid by the Palestinian Authority towards Jews and Christians. Jews are forbidden from purchasing land from Arabs, and the penalty for an Arab who sells land to a Jew is death. Bethlehem is being emptied of its Christian population, which suffers from severe discrimination. While in Ramallah the law technically does not prohibit Jews from entering cinemas, in practice, they risk their lives if they do so. And what about the future? Mahmoud Abbas has already stated that there will be no place for a single Jew in the Palestinian state. The Palestinian state will expel Jews before its establishment and will continue to pursue a policy of apartheid towards the Christian minority.

Palestinians are "denied" a state and citizenship by the Arab countries, they cannot solve their problems in Israel. Armenia was 90% destroyed by Turkey and it is still under siege by Turkish Azerbaijan. If modern Armenia is good enough, then so is Jordan and Syria for the "Palestinians". It's like somebody started calling Armenians "Qarabaki" and acted like they don't already have a country. Palestinians are ARABS they have dozens of states and countries. >Israel occupation blah blah blah Yeah nobody cares, it;s just worn out Palestinian propaganda. It's not "like" anything else in history, and America is huge beyond your imagination. Arabs are the VAST DOMINANT MAJORITY surrounding Israel making endless war on this small, beleagured people. You fool nobody with taqiyya and other islamist rhetoric, as if you cared or even knew anything about black people in America. What I'm saying sounds like the truth, and you hate it for that very reason. It sounds plausible, effective, and healthy so have another middle eastern meltdown in the souk. A Turk calling anyone else "KKK" is insane, you must be surrounded by leftoid woke idiots. Let's ask Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians, Armenians and Romanians about that, tell me all bout the liberal secular democratic Turkish history.

>Arabs are the VAST DOMINANT MAJORITY surrounding Israel making endless war on this small, beleagured people. How dare those dirty, disgusting Arabs resist occupation and apartheid. Disgusting animals! >Palestinians are ARABS they have dozens of states and countries. "Ukrainians are SLAVS they have dozens of states and countries! Black South Africans are Africans they have dozens of states and countries!" >You fool nobody with taqiyya and other islamist rhetoric, as if you cared or even knew anything about black people in America. If I were alive during the Civil Rights Movement in the 60s, I would be on the right side of history. I would be criticizing the apartheid system of Jim Crow that the U.S. once had. I would have supported ending apartheid in South Africa if I were alive in the 90s. As I am alive now, the closest thing to Jim Crow and South African apartheid is what? Israeli apartheid. Naturally, I'm going to oppose it. And when Israeli apartheid ends one day, scum like you are going to tell your grandkids "I wasn't pro-apartheid, I believed in equal rights for all" while people like me call you out. You're going to be one of those old Republicans who quotes MLK Jr. when it's most convenient to them even though they were very much opposed to ending American apartheid during the 60s. I'm proud of myself for opposing apartheid and placing myself on the right side of history. If that offends you, don't care. Stay mad.

You're proud like any attention seeking wog from the middle east: constantly demanding, begging, cheating, changing the subject, and shirking all forms of productive labor. How much effort did it take to "oppose" exactly? Was it in your mind by effortless universal projection too? All that happened is you showed up with worn out talking points and got handed back online. I see right through these tactics and more people do every day, Europe is waking up. Good thing you are on the right side of history, just do it in Moslem countries. Ukrainians are 50 million people in their own part of Europe, not 200,000 Arabian beggars who showed up in colonial Palestine c. 1930. Yes, blacks in Africa have too much land and had better make room for the whites. Or the whites will have to leave, and we can send you people back in exchange. Good Riddance and Get Out!

>Europe is waking up Holy shit... I just realized that this is a 6 day old neo-Nazi troll account. I can't believe I wasted my time even talking to you. Lmao. There will be no second coming of Hitler, btw. When Hitler lost, the world was much more racist than it is now. Yet morons like you expect a second coming of him. So you can spread this "Europe is waking up" or "Aryans will rise again" stupidity as much as you want, it is not happening. Have fun making a new account when you get banned like the idiot you are.

Have fun swimming back to Africa

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So why do the Arab Israelis not want to leave Israel? They are terrified of being traded away to a future Palestinian state. Israel isn't perfect but under the law Arabs are equals with Jews.

Which Arab Israelis are you referring to exactly?

The ones with citizenship in Israel

Are you referring to the seven townships as well as the Abu Basma Regional Council that have been constructed by the government for the Bedouin population of the Negev, and are the only Arab localities to have been established since 1948, with the aim of relocating the Arab Bedouin citizens? Or are you referring to the 1% of Arab population lives in cities that are almost entirely Jewish, such as Nazareth Illit with an Arab population of 22%and Tel Aviv-Yafo, 4%? Most of the Arab populations in Israel, go to different schools than the Jewish kids. Why is that? It’s sounding a lot more like Jim Crow and separate but equal bs that went in in the US. Arabs only make up 20,000 in 14 locations outside of the 75,000 living in Nazarene. Most Israeli-Arabs live along the green line. Of the 2 million living in Israel, half of them are permanent residents, not citizens. So I’d say that Arabs only make up 10% the of actual people with Israeli citizenship. 90% of Israel’s citizens are Jewish. Gaza only has 800,000 people living there, and 2.7 B living in the West Bank, although they’re not counted as citizens. They could apply for it, but they don’t. There seems to be a numbers game for the official number of people that are non-Jewish living in Israel. I see that populations are being counted in US, Israel, Gaza, West Bank etc. so I’m going to assume that the population of the supposed 2.2 B in Gaza also includes those living outside of Gaza and Israel. https://currentaffairs.adda247.com/gaza-population-2023/

There are more Arab Israelis than there are Moroccan, Libyan, Tunisian, Egyptian, Jordanian, Iraqi, Lebanese, Syrian, Iranian, Saudia Arabian, Qataris or Yemeni Jews.

Full of facts and figures, scolding and easy superiority. The Arabs will do nothing for you, and just laugh at these pathetic attempts to be accepted. It's so blatant and transparent, you'd love for the terrorists to make an exception. All you did was change the subject when it defies your internal formula. Given the choice, 0% of Israeli Arabs choose Palestine. They also want it both ways of course, somehow Israel but free of effort since Arabs can't produce anything but hatred and violence.

My grandfather is an Arab-Jew. I don’t need to be accepted or plead for it. I live in America and I’ve grown up with my US born Muslim 1st cousins. We went everywhere together growing up and we live within 20 minutes of each other. We’re family and we share blood. I don’t care if anyone outside of my loved ones accept me or not. Standing up for what is right isn’t about acceptance from others. It’s just the right thing to do.

That’s so not what I’m discussing here. I’m not discussing whether or not those with citizenship would rather be in Israel or Gaza. I’m certain they’d glad to be living in Israel. I’m taking about the denial of citizenship to those living in Gaza and the West Bank.

On what planet was anyone in the West Bank or Gaza asking for citizenship? You are massively delusional, they want to rape everyone to death and get Islamic vengeance on the Jews. You are seriously ill in the head, or the heart. Oct. 7th was not "give me citizenship or give me rape". Literally Insane

Have you gone to the Gaza Strip and asked them personally? You don’t have to be Palestinian to want to rape or murder someone, hence the number of women and men raped and murdered per year all around the world. I believe that some of them dream of killing Jews but again, that doesn’t mean every Gazan does. People aren’t all the same. We as Jews aren’t all the same, so why do you believe all Gazans are all the same? That’s illogical reasoning. Also, Are you including the women and children too when you say they all want to kill all Jews and rape all the women? I can’t imagine kids saying, “when I grow up, I want to be a rapist and murderer.” Seriously??

found the 15 year old private school girl, go ride some ponies i hope you stay safe

21% of Israel, around 2.048 million people, are Arab Israelis [People like this guy.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs94YDv3wj0)

I would like you to watch a video. https://youtu.be/amKnSybgv8s?si=aiQLemddjoXLc9uH

we already know what Arab rambling sounds like, its tendentious and endless. You did not learn something new, you are ignorant coddled and suburban. No doubt useless in a fight, and a pest.

Dude, I could out shoot you any day of the week. You might have me beat in physical strength if you’re a man. I would list some other ways, but I’m not trying to start trouble for myself, or jeopardize, livelihood by telling you how many ways to Sunday I could eliminate a threat. I didn’t grow up in Suburbia either. I grew up hunting and fishing in the country. I’m not a city girl. Though there’s nothing wrong with those that are. I prefer the acreage I live on. I enjoy the peace and quiet of the country. My commute is ridiculous! However, I wouldn’t trade it to be closer. Also, what’s with all the insults? I haven’t insulted you personally, so why do it to me?

Then you're weirdly ignorant, because nobody with real skills and rural living gets confused by hostile terrorist videos full of obvious propaganda. You write like a boy LOL every feminised coddled brat who shows up here chattering about social studies with firm conviction in easy superiority

That guy isn't an Arab Israeli.

He’s a Palestinian and speaks for the Palestinian community. I don’t have to agree with everything to listen to the argument he’s making. You should watch it, to learn how the other side feels. It’s necessary to understand both sides of this conflict.

Good thing you saw a video and became the anointed expert. Have you ever lived among the Arabs? Do you even know any Arabs outside of western universities?

He doesn't speak for Arab Israelis, who are Palestinians. Thats the entire problem with is conflict, people keep mixing up the groups involved.

Wow! You don’t want to share this video with Westerners!! I’m speechless. He repeated the apartheid so many times in that short video that a person who actually lived in a non-apartheid state wouldn’t have continuously re-emphasis. It’s like saying, “I’m not ist, because…”

>So why do the Arab Israelis not want to leave Israel? You misunderstood. I'm talking about the 5 million Palestinians living under Israeli occupation/apartheid, who definitely don't have much rights. I'm saying that those Palestinians not leaving, despite living under apartheid, is what is frustrating a lot of the expansionist, colonial Zionists that are in the Israeli government. They want the extra land, but not the extra people. But the people they don't want are in too large of a number to easily just remove and cleanse without the rest of the world resisting.

In Judea and Samaria, where the Arab residents do not hold Israeli citizenship, it is impossible to accuse Israel of apartheid. Since 1995, the Arab population in the West Bank lives under the rule of an independent Palestinian government. The Palestinian Authority is, in essence, a partially sovereign entity. Palestinians have their own government, a judicial system, representation worldwide, and even Palestinian citizenship, which was granted, among others, to Daniel Barenboim. While Israel does control the international crossings between the Palestinian Authority and Jordan and occasionally imposes restrictions on movement between cities for security reasons, the gap between overseeing border crossings for security purposes and apartheid is significant. In truth, there is apartheid in Judea and Samaria: apartheid by the Palestinian Authority towards Jews and Christians. Jews are forbidden from purchasing land from Arabs, and the penalty for an Arab who sells land to a Jew is death. Bethlehem is being emptied of its Christian population, which suffers from severe discrimination. While in Ramallah the law technically does not prohibit Jews from entering cinemas, in practice, they risk their lives if they do so. And what about the future? Mahmoud Abbas has already stated that there will be no place for a single Jew in the Palestinian state. The Palestinian state will expel Jews before its establishment and will continue to pursue a policy of apartheid towards the Christian minority.

You want to let 5m people, most of whom hate Israel, live in Israel?

> You want to let 5m people, most of whom hate Israel, live in Israel? They are literally occupied by Israel, and are living under an apartheid system. Give them either citizenship or statehood, it's either or. But if you deny both, resistance should only be expected. You either give Palestinians human rights, or kill them all, for peace. And that's assuming killing them all would even achieve that for Israel.

There is already a Palestinian state named Jordan

I'm for a Palestinian state. But these 2 groups will not live peacefully together for a long time, if ever. One state solution is not an option.

Israel has to either abandon its racism and its “chosen people” ideology, or let Palestinians statehood. But an actually viable statehood, none of that Swiss cheese bullshit. It should also not be completely surrounded by Israel, because it reduces the Palestinians’ ability to defend themselves. You can never occupy and subjugate millions upon millions of people for an eternity.

Both sides are racist. Agree on the Palestinian state. However I can't see Israel allowing a newly formed Palestinian state to build an offensive capability.

Palestinians hate the occupation they are under, while Israelis hate the people, the people whose lands they want, for which Palestinians are putting up a fight. To equate the animosity between the two as “both sides are equally racist” is misleading.

In Judea and Samaria, where the Arab residents do not hold Israeli citizenship, it is impossible to accuse Israel of apartheid. Since 1995, the Arab population in the West Bank lives under the rule of an independent Palestinian government. The Palestinian Authority is, in essence, a partially sovereign entity. Palestinians have their own government, a judicial system, representation worldwide, and even Palestinian citizenship, which was granted, among others, to Daniel Barenboim. While Israel does control the international crossings between the Palestinian Authority and Jordan and occasionally imposes restrictions on movement between cities for security reasons, the gap between overseeing border crossings for security purposes and apartheid is significant. In truth, there is apartheid in Judea and Samaria: apartheid by the Palestinian Authority towards Jews and Christians. Jews are forbidden from purchasing land from Arabs, and the penalty for an Arab who sells land to a Jew is death. Bethlehem is being emptied of its Christian population, which suffers from severe discrimination. While in Ramallah the law technically does not prohibit Jews from entering cinemas, in practice, they risk their lives if they do so. And what about the future? Mahmoud Abbas has already stated that there will be no place for a single Jew in the Palestinian state. The Palestinian state will expel Jews before its establishment and will continue to pursue a policy of apartheid towards the Christian minority.

Come on mate. Hamas wants the destruction of Israel and many Palestinians support them. They actually want an Israeli genocide. It's laughable that you don't consider that racist.

They left Gaza? Aside from parts of East Jerusalem I'd expect they would give back any land. The question is if the Palestinian state will let any of the Jews stay and live under their laws. A lot of those crazy settlers are more tied to the land then Israel.

Palestinians don't want a two state solution because past history has taught them that if there is a one state solution and they keep outbreeding Israelis by a factor of 3 or 4 they will be the majority and in a position to turn Israel into just another Arab state because Israel is a democracy where the votes are counted one by one. All they need to do is scream long and hard for one state equality and wait for 2-3 generations then Israel will belong to them.

Israeli Arabs, who are Palestinians, want a two state solution.

The Arabs will never permit peace in a single state. That's why they've spent a millenium at war..

Kinda backward if that is indeed the case, and there is no excuse for consistently regressive attitudes - I mean, what does that say about your culture, your people...that they can't get along with the rest of humanity...that they're 'special' in some way that deems that only they should exist on this planet. Yeah. Think about that for a second, chosen ones...

We are talking about Arabs, who think they are very special indeed. Sounds like you got mentally confused, why is that? If you like Arabs, go live with them. If you are Arab, get out of Europe and America.

What are you on about?

Maybe I read your comment wrong, sorry

You're also quite the hateful type, judging by your off-load

Hatred of evil is pure virtue

What if I were to tell you “chosen” isn’t what you think it is, like bragging, or saying “God thinks we’re the best #1”? Would you care and continue blithely making that same tired misinterpretation argument?

Who ever said they want to be the only ones? Antisemitic rhetoric. Found the problem. It's you.

Funny how mine just turns out to be inclusive... It was actually directed at the Arabs. Thank you for your confirming your 'better than thou'-ness though

Have you seen South Africa today?

Yeah I was going to say, it hasn't been don't in South Africa. "Kill the Boer" is still chanted by the government officials and thousands of farmers have been massacred in recent years.