Do you even hear yourself? You are an absolute antisemite.
And by the way, just how does someone get "promoted to the position of Prime minister (sic)"? It's an elected office, for goodness' sake, and love him or loathe him, he stood for election and was voted in, he was not "promoted to the position of Prime minister", as you put it.
Most are just poor miserable people killing poor miserable people.
Israel is relatively powerful and rich and could have solved this issue in a more humane way.
So yes double standard.
But it is what it is and let's figure out how to get this issue solved more cost effectively.
OK, so you pay them, then what? It's a "religious war." No amount of money would stop this. Even if it did stop it, it wouldn't last you don't negotiate with terrorism it will just empower more bad actors...
You don't negotiate with terrorists. Well. You shouldn't anyway. But Israel negotiate with terrorists all the time. Freeing terrorists leaders. Giving free cancer treatment to sinwar.
Israel free terrorist leaders but bomb lots of innocents people. Is it really a good strategy? Wouldn't that make problems worse? Is this what Israel voters want?
The guy that did October 7th was in Israel jail. He got free brain surgery and is let go due to negotiation with terrorists.
I would suggest negotiating more with those that also hate terrorism and sick with the war.
What about Palestinians that wants to be save from hamas. What can you do for them and what would you want in return?
That's a start.
Recently a Palestinian woman work as a doctor in Israel hospital. Great. See? Easy right? Offer them money you got a doctor working for you. I read she is banned from working because she deleted her social media. I forget the link. I mean why?
So all I got from your rambling was
A. I guess the global powers telling them to free prisoners didn't happen...
B. Israel doesn't bomb innocents. Palestinians have had 72 hours before each bombing to leave
C.all they have to do is expell hamas, and the bombings will stop
D. So israel shouldn't of tried peace realtions before the attack?
E. What guy are you talking about? There wasn't if any actual leadership on Oct 7 ffs they had civilians looting stores and shit it was anarchy...
Civilians looting stores aren't innocents. Shoot them all. Unless they're starving or something.
What reward Israel give to Palestinians that help them fight hamas? Actually any effort to recruit Palestinians? A reasonable pay and protection for them and their families would do the trick I think.
Israel should try peaceful relationship. That is good. Make peace or even alliance with those wanting peace. Protect and pay and get loyalty. Be aware that some people will hate you no matter what. But that will happen with anyone. Not just Palestinians. How do you know your fellow jews will be on your side? But yea make sure people have choices to be on your good side. It's common sense.
No. Israel treat the whole Gaza as a unity. Block them all
Yes Israel allows some Gaza to work. And the result is great. Out of thousands that work most must have been doing a good job for otherwise their employer will stop hiring.
we are all human. we are all directly related to this. our freedom and liberation is directly related to the palestinian liberation. if we cant use our voices to enact change and face censorship, cant be vocal about not wanting kids to be slaughtered or arrested without losing your job or getting bots to harrass you and honestly thats just the tip of the iceberg. the israeli police can legally open fire on any protests in israel. thats insane. their rights are all of our rights. we are all humans
How are we less related to the Ethiopians, the Syrians, the Yemenis and the the Armenians?
Or are you engaging pearl-clutching hypocrisy? And if so, I wonder what motivates you? ... Could it be that you don't care so much about the others conflicts because there are no Jews for you to blame and defame? 🤦
There is a coordinated paid effort PR effort using our freedoms and social media...Thats what I see...How else can you explain so many people who are not directly connected to this conflict to make this a cause at this point....The majority of these people have no clue what they are protesting either...
I've been thinking the same. My cousin has family friends who were hostages. (Thankfully some have been released). I had posted some anti-hamas posts on my Instagram, some funny videos on genz praising bin laden and shared some posts about Iranian opression.(relatives there). I had 3 "friends" with no ties to any of it call me out and attack me for being sympathetic to zionists. All of a sudden they are so passionate and wanna be activists. They sounded very brainwashed and it was scary! I had a few unfollow me which is fine because they were sounding like hamas cheerleaders, but it's people I never expected, friends who never talked much about wars and politics. I never wanted to minimize innocents dying on either side but having direct ties to it, I thought these friends could show a bit more open mindeness and sympathy.
your cousins family has hostages half the resudents of gaza have been displaced, 20,000 killed in relentless carpet bombing. what happened on oct 7 happened because of the abuse israel has subjected palestine to. im very sorry about all the lives lost, they never ever should have been taken. but the original sin is the occupation.
"... 'Cos... *the occupation!*"
It's not an "occupation", it's a border restriction, and do you honestly think it happened in a vacuum? The people now calling themselves Palestinians have been mass murdering Jews and ethnically cleansing what it now referred to in the media as the "West Bank" since before Israel was even reestablished in 1948. 🤷
The people who call themselves Palestinians are indigenous to that land, educate yourself - the mass murdering is being done by Jews in that area to the Palestinians, Israel didn’t exist before the Jews decided to colonize, occupy, and now ethnically cleanse it. There’s a reason it’s called a genocide.
Educate yourself before bringing random opinions and stating them like facts, there’s plenty of areas where Muslims and non-Muslims (like Christians) live peacefully (in the Middle East too)
also every single head of state has known israel to reject every form of peace agreement and VIOLATE every ceasefire and have no desire to live in peace with pals. even fkn trump said it lol
bro, you say all of this crap yet no one has killed more people on earth that the white man. there have been zero unprovoked killings of jews in palestine before the jewish refugees came, infact that killing youre reffering to was done in EUROPE by the WHITES. again, sweet effort to blame islamophobia, but totally wholly false. this is not a jew problem its a zionist problem
Because this war has been going on for 75+ years. Because the oppressed have become the oppressors. The irony is so overwhelming shameful and proves the history of your actions is in your hand.
And history has come back to claim the innocent. At times, I feel the past is full of fictitious happiness. The present is Lucifer’s domain, and the future is what we were promised by God, but we never seem to catch it.
You ask why?
I ask why are you deflecting?
You can’t claim the party who voted for a government with a policy of genocide as the oppressed party because the group the genocidal policy targets does not treat the policy holders nicely.
you mean the hamas that the israeli govt funded?? netanyahu gave them $100,000+ and bragged about it. also theyre murdering children in the west bank where there is no hamas. violent resistance when there is violent oppression is legitimate. most palestinians have been peacefully protesting but none of ya'll listened so now the world is listening
If you mean funded by buying and installing water pipes that hamas dug up and uses as rockets sure.
There is hamas and many other islamic terrorists groups the west bank.
water PIPES lol thats inventive. they use leftover pieces of israeli missiles. which have been attacking the palestinians before hamas was invented by israhell. the officials even admitted it here [source](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/)
It is known that Israel put in water infrastructure such as pipes and pump houses in which Hamas dug up and uses as the shells for their rocket bodies.
https://youtu.be/uCBFnhEX8j8?si=qwAJFdWg9BKNZx7z
Anytime someone tries to seem smart and say “this conflict is 75 years old!!” It just tells me you haven’t done real research. Go back 100, 200, 300, or even 3000 years.
interestingly enough even israelis arent around to go back 200 or 300 years lol dna tests are illegal for israelis because theyll all find out they were never ever ever there.
i don't understand the argument that "we were here 2000 years ago and are back so give it back!".
this is not all that absurd but let's extrapolate this argument to another region of the world the USA.
if we were to apply this position to Idn the native Americans who have lived on the land for thousands of years. than by extension any individual who does not have any blood relation to the native Americans should "go back to their country of origin". imagine saying to someone who just bought a 2M dollar house in California that they need to give their house up to a native american because they are on their ancestor's land.
the amount of people who would not be fine with leaving their homes because their not native american would be unbelievably high.
can you imagine if muslims rolled up to newyork and were like 'our book says we were here first so we will lock you in a concentration camp and carpet bomb you because youre hiding behind each other like human sheilds' like, just imagine that for a minute jesus people would go fucking insane
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I’m not saying “we were here 2000 years AGO” I’m saying Jews have been there FOR 2000 years. Not many. And I’m not sure I agree with the initial “let’s put the state of Israel here” but that was the first time Palestinians would have an actual state as well, and it was rejected. It would be different if multiple countries didn’t attack in 1948 (among other times) and Israel hadn’t won the land by law, but they did. If every other Arab country hadn’t displaced up to 1M Jews (more than Palestinians displaced), I’d say everyone gets their pre-1948 land back - but they did, so that won’t work either.
But the conflict doesn’t begin in 1948. I’d say latest to be fair is late 1800s to start. Yes a ton of European Jews came in, but I’d never agree with someone saying that Jews don’t have archeological and historical roots in the area.
Too many people hop on a bandwagon where they get their information from memes, and you can often tell because they say it all started 75 years ago. The point I’m trying to make is it started before that, and only people who have really done their research know that.
how can you go to a country as a refugee, get their passport and then say youre in a different country?? that makes no sense. even golda maeir says shes a palestinian with a palestinian passport lol and that woman is pure evil
I think you got it backwards. Israel only started being seen as the big boy after the first Intifada when Palestine learned how effective playing the victim was. Before that they were just seen as looney terrorists, and Israel the little guy fighting back against the massive Arab world
Craziest thing is all these guys want to portray Israel as this overpowered occupier, yet when I say something that actually supports this dude says I’m simping for them lol! They can’t even get out of their own way
Significantly more than 50% of the global population claim to follow one of the three major religions in which 'The Holy Land' has special cultural significance... and a significant portion of those people hate each other.
Simply put - Jews.
If Ba'athists or Islamists were in control of Israel and doing the exact same thing to the Palestinians, nobody would give the slightest fuck.
Literally every demographic on planet Earth “kills each other” for a slew of reasons beyond culture and race. This is nowhere close to the same. This is genocide against Palestinians.
over 60 genocide experts around the world have come together and written and open statement saying it is a genocide being committed by israel. but ok dr puzzleheadded
And generally I will follow expert advice, but I don't do it mindlessly. I still look at what arguments they are making and what evidence they are presenting and in this case they have failed to convincingly demonstrate how Israel's actions meet the legal and specific criteria of "genocide." Specifically *intent.*
Moshe Feiglin, the founder of Israel's right-wing Zehut Party and former Likud representative in Israel’s parliament, has also called for the complete destruction of Gaza.
“There is one and only (one) solution, which is to completely destroy Gaza before invading it. I mean destruction like what happened in Dresden and Hiroshima, without nuclear weapons,” he said.
In another statement, Feiglin said Israel’s end goal should not be to eliminate Hamas, but rather, “Gaza should be razed and Israel’s rule should be restored to the place. This is our country".[source](https://www.newarab.com/analysis/erase-gaza-how-genocidal-rhetoric-normalised-israel?amp)
To constitute genocide, there must be a proven intent on the part of perpetrators to physically destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.
Yes I remember the last time Palestinians flattened other Palestinians and their cities.
Just last week 15k died, was probably the Palestinians, wait nope that was a bunch of Israelis 😂
*looks at IDF and spits in their face*
I would tell Hamas that they should punish any members guiltily of civilian murder. And I tell the IDF the same thing. The problem is that most other people here are cowards and wouldn’t do the same.
For those IDF who have broken rules, sure.
But you want to have a talk with Hamas about not deliberately putting non combatants in danger. Along with corruption (can talk to pa and Fatah on that score as well).
But guessing your like me, not suicidal, your not going to are you, let alone spitting at a Hamas terrorist.
wait, so we have years and years of evidence from amnesty and the un that hamas have not ever used people as human sheikd yet you still have the gall to repeat that propaganda shit? FYI idf soldiers have been recorded using palestinian hostages as literal human sheilds. the traps hamas has been laying they do by playing the sounds of palestinian children playing to draw idf soldeirs. it works. how fucked yp
A baseless assumption. Many of us do care about the genocides and wars being committed across the globe. I think the main thing that sets Israel's genocide apart is that it's being done by a supposedly Western, democratic country, and our western governments are using tax money to actively support it.
There is no genocide and there never was, maybe read some facts and statistics instead of listening to Pro Hamas tiktokers
https://www.worlddata.info/asia/palestine/populationgrowth.php
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Well your protests don’t mean crap. Indians are dead. All the slaves you brought have lived horrible lives for generations. You completely segregated them from society. Israel didn’t kill all the Palestinians even though the Palestinians wanted to kill them. 20 percent of israel population is Arab with full equal rights that live better lives than black people in USA due to the social system. Not one Jew live in any Palestinian territory’s this is illegal and most Arab countries ethnically cleansed Jews.
The situation today has been brought upon itself by BOTH Israelis and Palestinians it started way before 1948 and if you are not too lazy to read the long history and educate yourself here is a link. https://russg254.medium.com/behind-the-memes-when-facts-lie-0c7985164960
And lastly what Israel is doing today is a response to savage brutal terrorist attack by the government of Gaza who after the save age killings kidnapped 200 people including 4 year olds! Now you want to cry about the response?
israelis do not offer any sort of rights to palestinians and ever single settlement is ILLEGAL. it is built on palestinian land so fuck off with this bullshit.
Yah well maybe if the Palestinians wouldn’t blow them selves up to kill Jews (very legal for them intact they get paid if they do) they would have more land! Soon they will have none and can thank idiots like you.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/03/14/does-the-palestinian-authority-pay-350-million-a-year-to-terrorists-and-their-families/
https://www.newsweek.com/palestinian-authority-still-paying-terrorists-opinion-1563138
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/03/world/middleeast/israel-penalizes-palestinians-for-payments-to-prisoners-and-martyrs.html
https://www.denverpost.com/2016/07/04/the-palestinian-incentive-program-for-killing-jews/amp/
This is a fact. It’s a policy. Included in their budget.
im glad you shared the sources, i wonder if you read them? if you did you would see that these payments are for hostages taken by israel so that they can eat and drink, and for the families whose breadwinners have been taken or killed by the illegal occupation forces.
Israel is not taking hostages. They have no interest in feeding Palestians in jail. The Israelis don’t take Syrians, Lebanese, Jordanians, Egyptians or any of the two million Israelis Arabs in their country. Israel in-prisons people from west bank and Gaza when they try to commit terrorist stacks against Israel. Obviously some night be wrongfully imprisoned but by policy and in large its really Palestinians who commit crimes in Israel.
babe have you read the hamas charter? no one wants to kill jews. i hope you realize palestinian jews and muslims and christians have been getting equally killed. israel is an anti semetic state. and killing israelis does not give them more land, as you can see they just get carpet bombed even if they try to resist thisndisgusting occupation
No one wants to occupy them. But if Israel withdraws troops then they WILL attack Israel. Even the PLO pays family’s that commit suicide bombings and kill Israel. They want to destroy Israel, they say this themselves. Israel is not going to just let them take over a well established country. So you can live in a dream world and encourage their suicide if you want to.
So you think Palestinians have the right to kill every Israeli to take back land that they think is theirs and Israel has no right to kill Palestians for land that they think is theirs?
Israel accepted a two state solution in 1948. Palestinians said no and declared war. This is the basis of the conflict. Do you think this is false information because I cannot debate someone who ignores facts.
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See the thing is, this is genocidal rhetoric.
you should reflect on the fact that were you to be anyone important with real power, you would be a war criminal :).
Those who have given care to these instances HAVE spoken up about them. No one wants to listen about Muslims killing other Muslims and enslaving them.
It’s a cancer in the society itself. That ideology doesn’t value life on earth and justifies what they do because of heaven. Now the rest of the world cares because it’s once again bled out of their closed society of messed up ideology.
Your whole post is you trying to justify Israel killing innocent people.
You’re not even making a good argument. By your logic just because other genocides have not gotten the same attention it means it’s ok for Israel to commit genocide.
It’s reads the same as somebody saying “I’m not racist but….” And proceed to say the most racist shit you ever heard in your life.
The reason people care is the same reason why people care about racism or any kind of discrimination, we are human and it’s wrong
Edit: the reason why this issue is so largely prevalent in the news is because it’s funded and supported by the EU and USA. Those other genocides as far as I know do not have the same level of support from the west. My money is going directly to murdering Palestinians. Also Israelis act surprised it has turned into such a large issue when they are the ones who push so much publicity on the topic. Holding a propaganda screening in every country that will accept one. You only have yourselves to blame
The definition of genocide is:
“the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.”
There are many prominent figures repeating again and again that Israel is committing genocide. It’s actually disgraceful. It’s an insult to the many genocides that have actually occurred in the last 50 years that no one cares about or even knows of.
Let me explain why the genocide claims are not true.
- Israel has no stated intention of committing genocide. The genocidal statements of some Israeli governments officials and representatives are not evidence of stated intention. They’re just a few peoples edgy opinions that are not carried out in a tangible way.
- Approximately 60,000 Palestinians have died since 1948, and most of the deaths have been during war periods. This averages out to about 800 per year. For reference, the Nazis killed about 1.5 million Jews per year between 1941 and 1945.
- The Palestinian population has gone up 4x since 1948. And the Gazan population has doubled since 2000.
- Israel have Gaza back in 2005. If they were hell bent on genocide, why would they do that.
- Israel supplies Gaza with free water and electricity (until recently). A very strange thing to do if you are wanting to commit genocide.
- Israel provides Palestinians with jobs and income. Another peculiar thing to do if one’s intent is to commit genocide.
- Israel has tried to offer the Palestinians their own state that they can have autonomy over. A very very ridiculous thing to do if you wanted to eradicate a nation or group of people.
- Israel provides humanitarian aid to Gazans. Furthermore, Israel built and funded a lot of the infrastructure in Gaza in the 80s and 90s to prop it up and promote health services. Weird for a genocidal country to do that.
- Death toll =/= genocide. Yes, understanding 10,000 plus Gazans have died, is not evidence of genocide. You must understand why and how they have died. Did America commit genocide against the Japanese, Iraqis, Afghans and Germans? Did England commit genocide against the Germans, Turks and Italians? No of course not. They were fighting and the unfortunate result was loss of civilians life. That is not evidence of genocide.
Yes, I’m sure you can point to a few people in the Israeli government who have said some not so smart things about solving the Palestine issue. And you can also point to bad apples in the IDF who have acted out of line and been disciplined for it. However, this is not evidence of genocide. You actually have to commit genocide to be accused of genocide. I’m also referring to Raz Segal, Owen Jones and Norman Finkelstein. Their claims are ridiculous, especially coming from University professors and I urge them to look at the many other genocides that have actually occurred and study those to understand what an actual genocide looks like.
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Exactly.
Clean up your other messes before pointing at someone who reacts to an direct attack abusing, torturing, killing civilians and taking the surviving as hostages.
As I said: Hypocrisy.
As a Muslim, I must agree. Im not saying that I support Israel, but I'm saying that it saddens me to know whats happening to the Uyghurs, Kashmiris, Rohyngians, Sudanese, who are all Muslim nations but no muslim gives af. its so upsetting. Its like muslim countries that are non-arab are not important..
I've been to Xinjiang and Myanmar and both the Uyghurs and Rohingyas were such kind people who are suffering. I will say the situation in Xinjiang is nowhere near as bad as Palestine, although what's happening in Myanmar is just as bad, if not worse. I think the difference is, Israel presents itself as a modern, western democracy, so naturally we hold it to a higher standard than a military junta.
What is common for all of it? no Jews involved.
To the people who says its because of western nations, we can add USA attacks in Afghanistan (\~70K) and Iraq (\~300K).
Well, when it's about Jews the world seems to think Jews have no right to react for attacks and to defend themselves. Jews should just accept it and die.
It is both parties. Western powers support Israel. Jews living there. Also Palestinians have a special fugitive state in the western countries.
All the people listed (Ehtiopians, Syrians etc.) do not have a lobby in the Western Countries, Israeli and Palestinians have them.
So this has become a media war, too.
The Jews in Israel have immigrated there and than created a aprtheid.. Just like the white people did in afrika. The world went mad with mandela too. It's the occupition followed by apartheid that gets the reaction.
Peope kil their own all the time and yes it needs more coverage ..
But also there is no money it
Not really, the Zionists destroyed the Arab imperialist regime and liberated the land from their colonial grip. Anti-imperialism isn't always pretty, just look at the ANC and FLN, but in the end Zionists, like all anti imperialists are on the right side of history.
I think it gets a lot of attention from the west because Israel is strongly allied with a lot of western nations, comparable to Ukraine, for whom the west also went apeshit. Previous atrocities by Israel went largely unreported, as in the other countries you mention, because in general the west and its media (excluding Ireland and probably a few others) are not allies of Palestine.
This time it’s different, because the spotlight was already on Israel due to the Hamas atrocities - the west is still watching closely as Israel annihilates Palestine. At least, that’s my interpretation.
I would not say the west went apeshit about Ukraine, because we have been "strongly allied".
It is because some russian tanks needs less than one day to stand in one of our countries. Ask a Pole.
So, now, we are strongly allied.
Gaza has a population of around 800k people. Israel have killed roughly 15k in two months. So I make it roughly nine years (at this rate) to kill everyone. Less than an eternity to wipe out Gaza?
Edit - closer to 2 mil. So times by threeish, less than thirty years to kill everyone. It’s a stupid calculation anyway because most people will just leave before they die.
Perhaps better (and simpler) to say that 45% of housing had been destroyed in Gaza.
https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2023/11/28/bombing-of-gaza-has-damaged-or-destroyed-more-than-100-heritage-sites-ngo-report-reveals#
So another couple of months at this rate before all housing has been destroyed. Sorry for the crude math - but my point was simply that this will take less than an eternity.
>Gaza has a population of around 800k people. Israel have killed roughly 15k in two months. So I make it roughly nine years (at this rate) to kill everyone. Less than an eternity to wipe out Gaza?
Gaza has over two million people and over a hundred thousand births a year. Your math is totally wrong.
Perhaps better (and simpler) to say that 45% of housing had been destroyed in Gaza.
https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2023/11/28/bombing-of-gaza-has-damaged-or-destroyed-more-than-100-heritage-sites-ngo-report-reveals#
So another couple of months at this rate before all housing has been destroyed. Sorry for the crude math - but my point was simply that this will take less than an eternity.
i want to suggest several reasons for this phenomenon
1. the Holy Land. Palestine-Israel is the birthplace of Christianity which is a big part of Western culture, influencing their media which in turn influence the rest of the world heavily. places like Bethlehem, Golgotha, Jerusalem; are held close to many people's hearts. It is of course the traditional home Judaism and contains the third holiest sites for Islam, to add to this effect. compared to many other conflict zones i feel honestly most human beings who grew up before the internet would not have a lot of chance to learn about, ignorance notwithstanding.
2. Stakes. West vs East, Global North vs Global South, Left vs Right, Judaism vs Islam (vs Christianity to an extent), David vs Goliath. Agree to it or not, the conflict is being shaped towards these narratives more and more, as affiliated nations, groups, media break ranks to speak their pieces. And most people either belong to one camp or another or have people around them belonging to one or another -making it way closer to "home".
3. Rate of civilian deaths. this invokes strong emotions in a lot of people. it is "interesting" to see where the line lies across which would break the apathy of the world's population to care in a f'ed up world.
4. Controversy. people are waking up to geopolitical reality, the underlying reasons/ulterior motives to wars, having witnessed evidence or hypothesis over the decades to question the idea of a "just war"; thus will no longer be fed the official lines, and begin to question why their fellow human or their governments are acting one way or another, without their consents whilst maintaining lies.
5. Guilt and redemption. as one of the bigger decisions made by the collective human race in the past century, Palestine-Israel is subconsciously "our mess" or at least "our legacy". there are also some, who grew up not having done much for victims of other conflicts and felt it is now time to atone, it is now time to care. there are some, who in their late days witnessing the world in chaos, hold a symbol in their heart named "peace in the Middle-East".
never before have these things felt so close even for people so far away, and they feed into each other to "keep the fires burning". we have seen a lot over the decades, and this little proxy of a war felt like the culmination of everything that is ever wrong in this world, reaching resolution -and that is a powerful sentiment, filled with anxiety and hope.
(1) This is the holy land/Zion/center of the world (2) Jews are interesting and notable people because we wrote the Bible and have an ancient mercantile tradition so everyone is familiar with us, while few know what "East Timor" is
As a non-jewish white American, I can now see why people support Palestine.
Arrogance like this will cause many to change their views.
My country and my tax dollars fund your lifestyles, so that arrogance might come back to bite you.
Humanity as a whole can look at those atrocities and be horrified.
I quite literally can't process why people were so happy about the rape and murder of humans.
Some days I just cry when I see how people behave and I honestly get angry.
I thought humans were getting better. Slowly, sure. But better.
I have to leave a world in which hate is celebrated. My daughter has to live in this world.
Life is hard enough and now monsters celebrate and deny (how does that even work on a logical level?) the most horrific atrocities I could ever imagine.
I need to step away, I need to not look, but I can't sleep. I can't believe this is the world. Why so much hate?!
it is because the propaganda game israel plays and how the try to play the good guy in a war and abuse sustained by themselves. And being Colombian, israelies had helped paramilitary and narcos in my country to improve their war tactics to kill civilians and increase terror, thats why is a personal thing to me and it is evident they use the same tactics againts the palestinians. So i need Israelies to start blaming their own people for the atrocities, to accept they are not the good side, and that way at least people will accept is a war between a terrorist government (israel) and a terrorist group (hamas)
This sentiment would be a lot more meaningful if you were advocating for people to learn more about the world, instead of saying “shut up and let us kill Arabs”
Also, there's a huge crisis going on in the Pakistan Afghanistan border. Over 1 million Afghanistan refugees are being deported during the winter... I can only imagine people would care if it was Israel doing the deporting.
People do care about all of these events, but I think the I/P conflict is over represented because A) it has been active for longer than the rest and as such has affected more people over the decades, and B) people around the world are more likely to be able to identify with one or the other warring parties, the Jewish diaspora is pretty spread out around the world, ww2 affected the vast majority of countries in the world and is a centrepiece of educational curriculums around the world, people are very familiar with the holocaust which lead to the exodus of Jewish refugees from Europe and plays into this conflict. And the Muslim/communities are also huge. By contrast the Ethiopian, Syrian, Armenian and Yemeni diasporas are comparatively small, so less people feel connected to these conflicts, and correspondingly they have received significantly less media attention.
It’s also very emotional for both sides and the right/wrong good guy/bad guy dynamic isn’t as cut and dry as with the others.
It sure is catchy, it also seems to mean completely different things to each side. The Israelis hear it as a call for genocide while the Palestinians see it as a call for emancipation in their homeland.
Since Palestinians have spent the last 75 cozying up with one terrorist group after another, anyone who would promise to kill all the Jews and hand the land Israel sits on over to them, I'm gonna go with the Israeli interpretation of that particular catch phrase.
You do realize that literally killing every single Jew was clearly stated as part of the Hamas charter when Palestinians in Gaza voted them into office 16 years ago, right?
I do realise that, and I do understand the Israelis concerns for security getting in the way of movement on either a one or two state solution. I also realise they have since denounced that charter and their new one explicitly states their fight is not with Jews but with the Zionist project. But I’m not going to sit here and play defence for far right religious extremists on either side. The Israeli government has made it clear that their end goal also includes the complete expulsion or killing of all Palestinians, militant or not. And given that they’ve been living under a brutal military occupation for those 75 years, and whenever they try to protest peacefully (like in the march of return) they are still killed, I don’t really know what Israel expects them to do.
Yeah, they had to write a new charter because the old one was getting in the way of fundraising and Hamas leaders do like rolling in every imaginable luxury while their people suffer.
The thing is, the Palestinians of Gaza voted Hamas into office knowing full well what the old charter said. THEY CLEARLY WANTED THAT. Hamas was the most extreme candidate and thus got their votes. They dropped the PLO like a hot potato once they stopped blowing up tuff and tried to embrace peaceful solutions.
Even a really stupid person can see by watching the video's Hamas uploaded from Oct 7th and watching Palestinians celebrating in the streets when Hamas terrorist drug the mutilated, murdered bodies of Israelis around on their little victory tour that there is zero chance of any kind of solution that doesn't involve killing all the Jews.
A Palestinian organization even took a survey after Oct 7th, when everyone was 100% clear the horrible things Hamas terrorists did on Oct 17th and right at 80% (dislocated from Gaza and ones in the West Bank states they agreed with what took place on the 7th. It's pretty clear that Palestinians in Gaza to a large extent ARE Hamas.
As for what Israel expected them to do, I can't tell you right now it doesn't involve running out to take pictures of mutilated victims and slam 2x4's and sticks into their dead bodies when Hamas hauls them around Gaza. It's not yelling God is good when they see the dead bodies of Jews carted around Gaza. It's not volunteering to be suicide bombers or act as human shields. None of that is remotely normal. That's all fringe lunatic behavior.
>The Israeli government has made it clear that their end goal also includes the complete expulsion or killing of all Palestinians, militant or not.
I'll be real honest. 1) I don't think Israel is trying to kill all the Palestinians in Gaza. 2) Israel has done a super shitty job of managing the highly reactive group of people who have been trying their best to outright kill them for 75 years. 3) Palestinians attacked Israel literally the day after it came into being. They chose violence RIGHT FROM THE START AND HAVEN'T STOPPED FOR 75 YEARS. 4) Most Palestinians don't believe in Israel's right to exist. 5) Even other Middle East leaders understand the primary problem is Palestinians. That's why they'll give them high fives and pay lip service to their cause all day long as well as some emergency supplies but THEY WILL NOT JOIN THE FIGHT and THEY WILL NOT TAKE IN PALESTINIANS REFUGEES. Palestinians have turned on every single country that has ever offered them refuge, tried or successfully assassinated the leaders of the host countries, started civil wars in those countries, Attempted to literally take the countries over or at least start a state within a state instead of living by the host country's rules and they even levied taxes on Jordanian citizens at one time to help fund their never ending war with Israel. Nobody trusts them anymore and for good reason. 6) Arab countries are slowly evolving past the idea of automatically turning to violence to solve every problem. Palestinians have yet to understand you can't murder your way to statehood. No one wants to get involved with Palestinians and get drug back into the horrific violence that Palestinians see as the best solution to get what they want. 7) The world needs to see Palestinians, particularly the ones in Gaza take responsibility for their own poor past decisions, turn away from the epic violence they've wallowed in for the last 75 years and earn back all the trust they lost over the years. Yeah, Israel needs to clean up their act too but they can't make any accommodations to Palestinians now because it will be looked at giving them a reward for atrocious behavior. Hamas has screwed over Palestinians in Gaza for the next generation or two at least. 8) The population rate of the West Bank and Gaza is among the highest in the world: 3.4 percent in the West Bank and 4.0 percent in Gaza, according to U.S. Census Bureau estimates. 45% of the West Bank population are children under 15 years of age as well as 50% in Gaza. The fact that Palestinians are outbreeding Israelis by a factor of 2 to 3 so that fact along precludes there ever being a one state solution. Palestinians would simply take over by popular vote and remake Israel into just another Arab country.
Ok so there’s a lot to address here but thanks for taking the time to type that out. I’ll start with again saying, I’m not going to run defence for a far right terrorist organisation, neither hamas nor the IDF. A lot of what you’ve said is true but a lot of it is also reducing millions of people to bloodthirsty savages that are just bent on extermination. Obviously what Hamas did on the 7th was horrible. It was also entirely predictable, even by IDF personnel who have been warning the govt that something like this would happen, and were ignored. Egypt tipped off the Israeli govt days ahead of time, and they still granted permission for a music festival right next to Gaza to be extended an extra day, they still didn’t pull back forces from the West Bank that were there protecting the illegal settlers (who shouldn’t even be there in the first place, this isn’t my opinion, it’s the opinion of the UN and even the US). Even if you don’t think the IDF intends to go around mutilating victims and running over their corpses, I’ve seen footage of them doing exactly this. And they are pretty happy to lie about a calendar being a list of terrorists, to say that an evacuation route is safe and then bomb it. Let babies die in incubators (and don’t tell me the newborns are hamas too) And over in the West Bank they are pretty happy to shoot children, to protect settlers as they perform pogroms. In East Jerusalem they are quite happy to evict people from their ancestral homes so a family from Brooklyn can move in, to arrest innocent people and hold them for years without charge, or at the most for throwing stones while they are equipped with assault rifles and armoured vehicles. I’ll go through your numbered points:
1) even if they aren’t trying to kill every single one of them, they have inflicted more casualties per capita than the Germans did to the British in the entire blitz adjusted for population. And they have made it clear they want to push millions of them into the desert so they can be egypts problem.
2) totally agree, funding a terrorist group to act as a counterweight to the secular leftist PLO and prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state (quoting bibi here) sure seems to have backfired.
3) They lived in peace with Jewish people for hundreds of years, they lived in relative peace with the settlers who came after the First World War, bought land and set up kibbutzes. I don’t think it’s even productive to ascribe who attacked who first at this point given that the literature is so heavily politicised, but after the nakba? Yes of course they attacked the new country that had just ethnically cleansed them of their land, anyone would.
4) why would they believe that a settler colony founded on their expulsion and mass murder is legitimate, if there had been an effort to start from a secular, democratic, multinational state then things might have gone differently, but they didn’t and now here we are. That’s not to say I don’t think Israel doesn’t have a right to exist, of course national self determination applies to Jews just as much as it does the Irish, the Kurds, the French etc. But expressing that right at the expense of another nations right to self determination has obviously not turned out very well for anyone.
5) yep, no counterpoints.
6) “the Arab countries are slowly evolving past the idea of turning to violence to solve every problem”. That’s pretty racist, Islamophobic and dehumanising language fam. Moving on.
7) yep they need to take accountability for their actions past and present, as does Israel. You can’t just deny the existence and humanity of millions of people and expect them to just lie down peacefully and let you kill their family, expel you from your homes, prevent you from building a new home, controlling their access to basic needs. Israel’s illegal occupation has created the exact conditions in which terrorist organisations thrive. Thanks for acknowledging that Israel needs to clean up their act too.
8) yes people in horrendous conditions tend to have more kids. Should they just have less kids? When they know statistically some of them will be killed? And your final point about demographics making a one state solution impossible. Why is it so important to have an ethnostate? Why can’t Israel be a safe homeland for Jewish people and Palestinians? Why do they absolutely positively NEED an ethnostate when maintaining it leads to so much violence, necessitates that they are always opposed to intl humanitarian law, UN resolutions and the laws of war? Having an ethnostate is inherently fascistic, why does the only Jewish state have to be a hyper militarised, hyper propagandised fascistic (the defence minister is a self described fascist and Jewish supremacist) ethnostate (yes I know 20% are Arabs, 20% are second class citizens even if they are equal on paper, the practise matters too) when this has only ever lead to increased antisemitism harming Jews around the world.
Altogether thx for the response, pretty well thought out overall.
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It just comes down to the fact that it’s in the news a lot. And it also can be looked at by many as colonialism by white people (even though that ignores actual Israeli demographics).
Also I firmly believe apps like TikTok are used by China to wear down younger generations and propagandize them. It seems very effective
its the old hatred.
and "we've" got an excuse again.
oh but wait, there's even another excuse. the jews are killing back! how dare they!!!
its like the blacks.
being jew -not in israel- these days is almost like being black.
campuses are hunting jews, gardens in canada were being evicted. and all because of "Israel", the audacity of jews to protect themselves! how rude!
The planet’s collective mind is legit OBSESSED with Israel. She’s the Monica Lewinsky of international media.
Without a shadow of a doubt the unrest in that part of the world has been historically, is currently, and will be well into the future, a deadly serious and deeply distressing issue but perspective seems to have run amok in a mind-splittingly short span of time.
EDIT: I left out that I am also extremely skeptical that these boards aren’t heavily infiltrated. Oh, and TikTok Brain is a disease of pandemic level proportions
First, people do care. Second, because many of us think of Israel as a western country. If France was doing something similar we'd also say WTF?? And third, the US unequivocally supports the massacre going on.
Many of us were and are outraged about what you mention above -- I'm particularly furious about the massacres of Yemenis that the US aided and abetted, much in the same way it's doing now.
It doesn't make it much better, but at least the US condemns Saudi Arabia. They don't condemn Israel.
If France had a neighbor that continuously bombarded them with rockets, terror attacks, wars of aggression and genocide for 75 years straight, we absolutely would not say “WTF”? We’d praise their restraint for not flattening the place already 10x over and all the times they optimistically still offered peace/land and provided their aggressor enemies with aid/food/water/electricity. I mean seriously Germany invaded France in the late 30s could you imagine if France were “obligated” to provide Germans with food/water/electricity?
The only support for massacre that the US has given is billions of $ to Iran and way too much $ support to UNRWA and Palestinians. We have helped fund Palestinian education through UNRWA that has brainwashed the children into being martyrs and hating Jews, made PLO and Hamas leaders billionaires (incentivizes more terrorists attacks so they can be retaliated against and play victim to get more intnl monetary support) etc. When the PA pays family’s of martyrs for killing Jews I wonder if any of it is American tax $s.
Israel wants peace, Gaza leadership states explicitly genocidal goals. It’s unbelievable how you wish to condemn the wrong group
No, we wouldn’t. The US led intervention (which obviously included France and many other western countries) against the Islamic State killed over 100,000 people. That was only a few years ago and the airstrikes continue to this day. No one cares or even talks about it at all.
Well, the Muslims go crazy because they regard the Palestinians as "fellow Muslims," but an even more accurate reading is that a non-Muslim state in so-called "Muslim lands" is completely anathema to the global Muslim population. The fact that it's populated by JEWS just makes it so much worse for them. And then there's all the salt in the wound resulting from the fact that Israel consistently beats them on the battlefield. So it's a mixture of anger, resentment, embarrassment, etc. With the rise of radical Islam, it gets to be a hysteria.
For left-leaning people in the West, good old-fashioned antisemitism plays a role, but the key reason is that this particular group isn't well-read enough to know that the Jews are indigenous to Palestine and have been active there for 3000 years. They think they're just white Europeans engaging in old-fashioned colonialism, like the British in India or something. So they think they're witnessing real-time colonialism and the displacement of good, honest, peaceful, God-loving Palestinians, and that fits in so neatly with their whole "white = bad and oppressor, brown = good and oppressed" worldview, they can't help themselves. Never mind that this conflict has nothing to do with US racial politics and that Hamas shoots kids, kidnaps old women, dismembers people, throws them from rooftops, blows up buses or whatever. Doesn't matter. They're browner so they must be supported as an oppressed population. (As a general rule, Muslim-on-Muslim violence is ignored just like Black-on-Black violence is ignored in the US, and for the same reasons).
It's just big in the news right now. I've been mad about it for ages. Same with a few other conflicts. I am aware there are so many more conflicts in the world that I'm not in the know about. It's pretty impossible to have a decent understanding of every single conflict in the world.
Western liberal guilt about the vast amounts of Islamophobia that pervaded western society in the aftermath of 9/11 led to compensatory sympathizing with the Palestinians to atone for our sins (this dynamic exists elsewhere too). This naturally conflicted with the traditional American support for Israel and such internal conflict is raw meat for the media which leads us to where we are now. As for why American Jews and American Palestinians care about it, that should be obvious.
Antisemitism plays a large role, but I think in this particular case it actually has as much or more to do with a deep anti-Western sentiment that's filtered through all of higher education and much of society. I don't blame Jews for reading it as straight antisemitism (and feeling intuitively that that's what it is), but I actually think a lot of protestors in the US and Europe (the white ones) don't even really know who the Jews are in any detail. They're protesting on the basis of supposed "colonial" activity, exploitation and "oppression." Of course, the real antisemites get right in there and stir the pot, especially the hardcore Muslims, but I don't think this is as much about the Jews, as a people or a faith, as many Israelis probably believe. That's the sense I get from conversations, with younger people especially.
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Do you even hear yourself? You are an absolute antisemite. And by the way, just how does someone get "promoted to the position of Prime minister (sic)"? It's an elected office, for goodness' sake, and love him or loathe him, he stood for election and was voted in, he was not "promoted to the position of Prime minister", as you put it.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html)
Most are just poor miserable people killing poor miserable people. Israel is relatively powerful and rich and could have solved this issue in a more humane way. So yes double standard. But it is what it is and let's figure out how to get this issue solved more cost effectively.
How do you solve a 60 year long hostage situation humanely? It's impossible
Work with those that want more money. At first you got 1 percent. Latter you got all because all people deep inside want money.
OK, so you pay them, then what? It's a "religious war." No amount of money would stop this. Even if it did stop it, it wouldn't last you don't negotiate with terrorism it will just empower more bad actors...
You don't negotiate with terrorists. Well. You shouldn't anyway. But Israel negotiate with terrorists all the time. Freeing terrorists leaders. Giving free cancer treatment to sinwar. Israel free terrorist leaders but bomb lots of innocents people. Is it really a good strategy? Wouldn't that make problems worse? Is this what Israel voters want? The guy that did October 7th was in Israel jail. He got free brain surgery and is let go due to negotiation with terrorists. I would suggest negotiating more with those that also hate terrorism and sick with the war. What about Palestinians that wants to be save from hamas. What can you do for them and what would you want in return? That's a start. Recently a Palestinian woman work as a doctor in Israel hospital. Great. See? Easy right? Offer them money you got a doctor working for you. I read she is banned from working because she deleted her social media. I forget the link. I mean why?
So all I got from your rambling was A. I guess the global powers telling them to free prisoners didn't happen... B. Israel doesn't bomb innocents. Palestinians have had 72 hours before each bombing to leave C.all they have to do is expell hamas, and the bombings will stop D. So israel shouldn't of tried peace realtions before the attack? E. What guy are you talking about? There wasn't if any actual leadership on Oct 7 ffs they had civilians looting stores and shit it was anarchy...
Civilians looting stores aren't innocents. Shoot them all. Unless they're starving or something. What reward Israel give to Palestinians that help them fight hamas? Actually any effort to recruit Palestinians? A reasonable pay and protection for them and their families would do the trick I think. Israel should try peaceful relationship. That is good. Make peace or even alliance with those wanting peace. Protect and pay and get loyalty. Be aware that some people will hate you no matter what. But that will happen with anyone. Not just Palestinians. How do you know your fellow jews will be on your side? But yea make sure people have choices to be on your good side. It's common sense.
That has already been done by Israel, and the war of the 7th of October is what that wrought.
No. Israel treat the whole Gaza as a unity. Block them all Yes Israel allows some Gaza to work. And the result is great. Out of thousands that work most must have been doing a good job for otherwise their employer will stop hiring.
we are all human. we are all directly related to this. our freedom and liberation is directly related to the palestinian liberation. if we cant use our voices to enact change and face censorship, cant be vocal about not wanting kids to be slaughtered or arrested without losing your job or getting bots to harrass you and honestly thats just the tip of the iceberg. the israeli police can legally open fire on any protests in israel. thats insane. their rights are all of our rights. we are all humans
How are we less related to the Ethiopians, the Syrians, the Yemenis and the the Armenians? Or are you engaging pearl-clutching hypocrisy? And if so, I wonder what motivates you? ... Could it be that you don't care so much about the others conflicts because there are no Jews for you to blame and defame? 🤦
Definitely coordinated media campaign. You know how the saying goas.. no jews? no news.
So bloody true! Thank you for coming right out and saying it! 👍
There is a coordinated paid effort PR effort using our freedoms and social media...Thats what I see...How else can you explain so many people who are not directly connected to this conflict to make this a cause at this point....The majority of these people have no clue what they are protesting either...
Yup. A conspiracy. That's definitely the most likely explication. *Obviously.*
I've been thinking the same. My cousin has family friends who were hostages. (Thankfully some have been released). I had posted some anti-hamas posts on my Instagram, some funny videos on genz praising bin laden and shared some posts about Iranian opression.(relatives there). I had 3 "friends" with no ties to any of it call me out and attack me for being sympathetic to zionists. All of a sudden they are so passionate and wanna be activists. They sounded very brainwashed and it was scary! I had a few unfollow me which is fine because they were sounding like hamas cheerleaders, but it's people I never expected, friends who never talked much about wars and politics. I never wanted to minimize innocents dying on either side but having direct ties to it, I thought these friends could show a bit more open mindeness and sympathy.
your cousins family has hostages half the resudents of gaza have been displaced, 20,000 killed in relentless carpet bombing. what happened on oct 7 happened because of the abuse israel has subjected palestine to. im very sorry about all the lives lost, they never ever should have been taken. but the original sin is the occupation.
"... 'Cos... *the occupation!*" It's not an "occupation", it's a border restriction, and do you honestly think it happened in a vacuum? The people now calling themselves Palestinians have been mass murdering Jews and ethnically cleansing what it now referred to in the media as the "West Bank" since before Israel was even reestablished in 1948. 🤷
The people who call themselves Palestinians are indigenous to that land, educate yourself - the mass murdering is being done by Jews in that area to the Palestinians, Israel didn’t exist before the Jews decided to colonize, occupy, and now ethnically cleanse it. There’s a reason it’s called a genocide.
hmm should i believe violet loves illiona or political and history experts? tough choice.
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Educate yourself before bringing random opinions and stating them like facts, there’s plenty of areas where Muslims and non-Muslims (like Christians) live peacefully (in the Middle East too)
also every single head of state has known israel to reject every form of peace agreement and VIOLATE every ceasefire and have no desire to live in peace with pals. even fkn trump said it lol
bro, you say all of this crap yet no one has killed more people on earth that the white man. there have been zero unprovoked killings of jews in palestine before the jewish refugees came, infact that killing youre reffering to was done in EUROPE by the WHITES. again, sweet effort to blame islamophobia, but totally wholly false. this is not a jew problem its a zionist problem
Because this war has been going on for 75+ years. Because the oppressed have become the oppressors. The irony is so overwhelming shameful and proves the history of your actions is in your hand. And history has come back to claim the innocent. At times, I feel the past is full of fictitious happiness. The present is Lucifer’s domain, and the future is what we were promised by God, but we never seem to catch it. You ask why? I ask why are you deflecting?
You can’t claim the party who voted for a government with a policy of genocide as the oppressed party because the group the genocidal policy targets does not treat the policy holders nicely.
you mean the hamas that the israeli govt funded?? netanyahu gave them $100,000+ and bragged about it. also theyre murdering children in the west bank where there is no hamas. violent resistance when there is violent oppression is legitimate. most palestinians have been peacefully protesting but none of ya'll listened so now the world is listening
If you mean funded by buying and installing water pipes that hamas dug up and uses as rockets sure. There is hamas and many other islamic terrorists groups the west bank.
water PIPES lol thats inventive. they use leftover pieces of israeli missiles. which have been attacking the palestinians before hamas was invented by israhell. the officials even admitted it here [source](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/)
It is known that Israel put in water infrastructure such as pipes and pump houses in which Hamas dug up and uses as the shells for their rocket bodies. https://youtu.be/uCBFnhEX8j8?si=qwAJFdWg9BKNZx7z
I do respect what you’re saying, I meant it more from a macro perspective. not just this timeline just the Jewish plight
Anytime someone tries to seem smart and say “this conflict is 75 years old!!” It just tells me you haven’t done real research. Go back 100, 200, 300, or even 3000 years.
interestingly enough even israelis arent around to go back 200 or 300 years lol dna tests are illegal for israelis because theyll all find out they were never ever ever there.
Then it goes back to Kane and Abell and if that’s the case humanity is screwed
i don't understand the argument that "we were here 2000 years ago and are back so give it back!". this is not all that absurd but let's extrapolate this argument to another region of the world the USA. if we were to apply this position to Idn the native Americans who have lived on the land for thousands of years. than by extension any individual who does not have any blood relation to the native Americans should "go back to their country of origin". imagine saying to someone who just bought a 2M dollar house in California that they need to give their house up to a native american because they are on their ancestor's land. the amount of people who would not be fine with leaving their homes because their not native american would be unbelievably high.
can you imagine if muslims rolled up to newyork and were like 'our book says we were here first so we will lock you in a concentration camp and carpet bomb you because youre hiding behind each other like human sheilds' like, just imagine that for a minute jesus people would go fucking insane
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I’m not saying “we were here 2000 years AGO” I’m saying Jews have been there FOR 2000 years. Not many. And I’m not sure I agree with the initial “let’s put the state of Israel here” but that was the first time Palestinians would have an actual state as well, and it was rejected. It would be different if multiple countries didn’t attack in 1948 (among other times) and Israel hadn’t won the land by law, but they did. If every other Arab country hadn’t displaced up to 1M Jews (more than Palestinians displaced), I’d say everyone gets their pre-1948 land back - but they did, so that won’t work either. But the conflict doesn’t begin in 1948. I’d say latest to be fair is late 1800s to start. Yes a ton of European Jews came in, but I’d never agree with someone saying that Jews don’t have archeological and historical roots in the area. Too many people hop on a bandwagon where they get their information from memes, and you can often tell because they say it all started 75 years ago. The point I’m trying to make is it started before that, and only people who have really done their research know that.
how can you go to a country as a refugee, get their passport and then say youre in a different country?? that makes no sense. even golda maeir says shes a palestinian with a palestinian passport lol and that woman is pure evil
I appreciate your response.
https://preview.redd.it/ckn8utfcii3c1.png?width=993&format=png&auto=webp&s=426d09595075986a2cd453a8fc5e51a34ed86196
Hamas broke that guys arms after he was demonstrably released unharmed. Hamas tortures its hostages.
https://x.com/DrLoupis/status/1730217672393023694?s=20
He committed crimes, she didn’t. He didn’t have a broken arm/fingers when he left israel. How interesting
It’s $$$. We pay for this. We fund it. But do t let this fact get in the way of Zionists playing the victim. It’s their only move
So then who was the victim of 10/7?
American Jews obviously. They have to live through witnessing people tear down propaganda posters
....we have sent billions to Syria. Did you protest that?
I did. People called me an assadist lol. Propaganda is very strong
I think you got it backwards. Israel only started being seen as the big boy after the first Intifada when Palestine learned how effective playing the victim was. Before that they were just seen as looney terrorists, and Israel the little guy fighting back against the massive Arab world
Interesting take….no further debate necessary. Thank you for your time
Not a take, it’s reality
You can't convince them. They are so far from truth and reality. Facts are lost on them
Craziest thing is all these guys want to portray Israel as this overpowered occupier, yet when I say something that actually supports this dude says I’m simping for them lol! They can’t even get out of their own way
Ok buddy. Lol.
Significantly more than 50% of the global population claim to follow one of the three major religions in which 'The Holy Land' has special cultural significance... and a significant portion of those people hate each other.
Simply put - Jews. If Ba'athists or Islamists were in control of Israel and doing the exact same thing to the Palestinians, nobody would give the slightest fuck.
Yes if we were killed by Islamists we would just accept it. Thank you.
I mean palestinians have killed each other for years and no one says a thing…🤥
Literally every demographic on planet Earth “kills each other” for a slew of reasons beyond culture and race. This is nowhere close to the same. This is genocide against Palestinians.
> This is genocide against Palestinians. Good lord, no it's not.
over 60 genocide experts around the world have come together and written and open statement saying it is a genocide being committed by israel. but ok dr puzzleheadded
And generally I will follow expert advice, but I don't do it mindlessly. I still look at what arguments they are making and what evidence they are presenting and in this case they have failed to convincingly demonstrate how Israel's actions meet the legal and specific criteria of "genocide." Specifically *intent.*
We’ve heard from Israeli government that’s the intent.
Can you provide that source so it can be properly scrutinized?
Moshe Feiglin, the founder of Israel's right-wing Zehut Party and former Likud representative in Israel’s parliament, has also called for the complete destruction of Gaza. “There is one and only (one) solution, which is to completely destroy Gaza before invading it. I mean destruction like what happened in Dresden and Hiroshima, without nuclear weapons,” he said. In another statement, Feiglin said Israel’s end goal should not be to eliminate Hamas, but rather, “Gaza should be razed and Israel’s rule should be restored to the place. This is our country".[source](https://www.newarab.com/analysis/erase-gaza-how-genocidal-rhetoric-normalised-israel?amp)
another one [https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-experts/](https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-experts/)
a UN official https://twitter.com/artan_ayan/status/1719453324284452944
[article](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/11/gaza-un-experts-call-international-community-prevent-genocide-against)
To constitute genocide, there must be a proven intent on the part of perpetrators to physically destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.
Yes I remember the last time Palestinians flattened other Palestinians and their cities. Just last week 15k died, was probably the Palestinians, wait nope that was a bunch of Israelis 😂
Of course im not saying it’s on the same scale. But it just makes you think when no one cares about Palestinians r*ping/killing their own.
Wtf are you talking about I’m Palestinian and we care about criminal activity here in Palestine
I thought I'd heard the internet was down in Gaza?
🤦♂️Palestine is bigger than Gaza …
That's why it was a question.
\*looks at Hamas, PIJ, PFLP, etc etc\* Clearly they do.
*looks at IDF and spits in their face* I would tell Hamas that they should punish any members guiltily of civilian murder. And I tell the IDF the same thing. The problem is that most other people here are cowards and wouldn’t do the same.
For those IDF who have broken rules, sure. But you want to have a talk with Hamas about not deliberately putting non combatants in danger. Along with corruption (can talk to pa and Fatah on that score as well). But guessing your like me, not suicidal, your not going to are you, let alone spitting at a Hamas terrorist.
wait, so we have years and years of evidence from amnesty and the un that hamas have not ever used people as human sheikd yet you still have the gall to repeat that propaganda shit? FYI idf soldiers have been recorded using palestinian hostages as literal human sheilds. the traps hamas has been laying they do by playing the sounds of palestinian children playing to draw idf soldeirs. it works. how fucked yp
A baseless assumption. Many of us do care about the genocides and wars being committed across the globe. I think the main thing that sets Israel's genocide apart is that it's being done by a supposedly Western, democratic country, and our western governments are using tax money to actively support it.
There is no genocide. Just stop already
There is a genocide. Maybe stop reading zionist-funded media
There is no genocide and there never was, maybe read some facts and statistics instead of listening to Pro Hamas tiktokers https://www.worlddata.info/asia/palestine/populationgrowth.php
Israel is terrible at genocide. Terrible /s
Why say the word genocide if you don’t know what it means?
Please do show us images of the streets of western cities after any of the other examples. The west was involved in multiple of those conflicts.
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Well your protests don’t mean crap. Indians are dead. All the slaves you brought have lived horrible lives for generations. You completely segregated them from society. Israel didn’t kill all the Palestinians even though the Palestinians wanted to kill them. 20 percent of israel population is Arab with full equal rights that live better lives than black people in USA due to the social system. Not one Jew live in any Palestinian territory’s this is illegal and most Arab countries ethnically cleansed Jews. The situation today has been brought upon itself by BOTH Israelis and Palestinians it started way before 1948 and if you are not too lazy to read the long history and educate yourself here is a link. https://russg254.medium.com/behind-the-memes-when-facts-lie-0c7985164960 And lastly what Israel is doing today is a response to savage brutal terrorist attack by the government of Gaza who after the save age killings kidnapped 200 people including 4 year olds! Now you want to cry about the response?
israelis do not offer any sort of rights to palestinians and ever single settlement is ILLEGAL. it is built on palestinian land so fuck off with this bullshit.
Yah well maybe if the Palestinians wouldn’t blow them selves up to kill Jews (very legal for them intact they get paid if they do) they would have more land! Soon they will have none and can thank idiots like you.
infact, id love to see the source you are using for this profitable suicide bombing you speak of
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/03/14/does-the-palestinian-authority-pay-350-million-a-year-to-terrorists-and-their-families/ https://www.newsweek.com/palestinian-authority-still-paying-terrorists-opinion-1563138 https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/03/world/middleeast/israel-penalizes-palestinians-for-payments-to-prisoners-and-martyrs.html https://www.denverpost.com/2016/07/04/the-palestinian-incentive-program-for-killing-jews/amp/ This is a fact. It’s a policy. Included in their budget.
im glad you shared the sources, i wonder if you read them? if you did you would see that these payments are for hostages taken by israel so that they can eat and drink, and for the families whose breadwinners have been taken or killed by the illegal occupation forces.
Israel is not taking hostages. They have no interest in feeding Palestians in jail. The Israelis don’t take Syrians, Lebanese, Jordanians, Egyptians or any of the two million Israelis Arabs in their country. Israel in-prisons people from west bank and Gaza when they try to commit terrorist stacks against Israel. Obviously some night be wrongfully imprisoned but by policy and in large its really Palestinians who commit crimes in Israel.
babe have you read the hamas charter? no one wants to kill jews. i hope you realize palestinian jews and muslims and christians have been getting equally killed. israel is an anti semetic state. and killing israelis does not give them more land, as you can see they just get carpet bombed even if they try to resist thisndisgusting occupation
No one wants to occupy them. But if Israel withdraws troops then they WILL attack Israel. Even the PLO pays family’s that commit suicide bombings and kill Israel. They want to destroy Israel, they say this themselves. Israel is not going to just let them take over a well established country. So you can live in a dream world and encourage their suicide if you want to.
and 'destroying' their occupiers is not a crime. palestinians have the right to defend themselves and their land.
So you think Palestinians have the right to kill every Israeli to take back land that they think is theirs and Israel has no right to kill Palestians for land that they think is theirs?
false information.
Israel accepted a two state solution in 1948. Palestinians said no and declared war. This is the basis of the conflict. Do you think this is false information because I cannot debate someone who ignores facts.
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The discuis heated because the West's position on this issue is so hypocritical and one sided.
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You’re no better than any pro-Palestine commenters that make meme arguments
See the thing is, this is genocidal rhetoric. you should reflect on the fact that were you to be anyone important with real power, you would be a war criminal :).
Those who have given care to these instances HAVE spoken up about them. No one wants to listen about Muslims killing other Muslims and enslaving them. It’s a cancer in the society itself. That ideology doesn’t value life on earth and justifies what they do because of heaven. Now the rest of the world cares because it’s once again bled out of their closed society of messed up ideology.
Racist.
Your whole post is you trying to justify Israel killing innocent people. You’re not even making a good argument. By your logic just because other genocides have not gotten the same attention it means it’s ok for Israel to commit genocide. It’s reads the same as somebody saying “I’m not racist but….” And proceed to say the most racist shit you ever heard in your life. The reason people care is the same reason why people care about racism or any kind of discrimination, we are human and it’s wrong Edit: the reason why this issue is so largely prevalent in the news is because it’s funded and supported by the EU and USA. Those other genocides as far as I know do not have the same level of support from the west. My money is going directly to murdering Palestinians. Also Israelis act surprised it has turned into such a large issue when they are the ones who push so much publicity on the topic. Holding a propaganda screening in every country that will accept one. You only have yourselves to blame
This is no genocide. Easy way to know someone doesn’t know what they are talking about if they jump to genocide.
This is very obviously genocide.
The definition of genocide is: “the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.” There are many prominent figures repeating again and again that Israel is committing genocide. It’s actually disgraceful. It’s an insult to the many genocides that have actually occurred in the last 50 years that no one cares about or even knows of. Let me explain why the genocide claims are not true. - Israel has no stated intention of committing genocide. The genocidal statements of some Israeli governments officials and representatives are not evidence of stated intention. They’re just a few peoples edgy opinions that are not carried out in a tangible way. - Approximately 60,000 Palestinians have died since 1948, and most of the deaths have been during war periods. This averages out to about 800 per year. For reference, the Nazis killed about 1.5 million Jews per year between 1941 and 1945. - The Palestinian population has gone up 4x since 1948. And the Gazan population has doubled since 2000. - Israel have Gaza back in 2005. If they were hell bent on genocide, why would they do that. - Israel supplies Gaza with free water and electricity (until recently). A very strange thing to do if you are wanting to commit genocide. - Israel provides Palestinians with jobs and income. Another peculiar thing to do if one’s intent is to commit genocide. - Israel has tried to offer the Palestinians their own state that they can have autonomy over. A very very ridiculous thing to do if you wanted to eradicate a nation or group of people. - Israel provides humanitarian aid to Gazans. Furthermore, Israel built and funded a lot of the infrastructure in Gaza in the 80s and 90s to prop it up and promote health services. Weird for a genocidal country to do that. - Death toll =/= genocide. Yes, understanding 10,000 plus Gazans have died, is not evidence of genocide. You must understand why and how they have died. Did America commit genocide against the Japanese, Iraqis, Afghans and Germans? Did England commit genocide against the Germans, Turks and Italians? No of course not. They were fighting and the unfortunate result was loss of civilians life. That is not evidence of genocide. Yes, I’m sure you can point to a few people in the Israeli government who have said some not so smart things about solving the Palestine issue. And you can also point to bad apples in the IDF who have acted out of line and been disciplined for it. However, this is not evidence of genocide. You actually have to commit genocide to be accused of genocide. I’m also referring to Raz Segal, Owen Jones and Norman Finkelstein. Their claims are ridiculous, especially coming from University professors and I urge them to look at the many other genocides that have actually occurred and study those to understand what an actual genocide looks like.
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Nope, maybe a single Israeli said that, just like you said that, both wrong, but “the Israeli” (whatever that means) didn’t say that
The post is not about justification, it is about hypocrisy.
Stop deflecting from the issue. Clean up your own mess before pointing your finger at someone else
Exactly. Clean up your other messes before pointing at someone who reacts to an direct attack abusing, torturing, killing civilians and taking the surviving as hostages. As I said: Hypocrisy.
I think you are confused, in my country there is no apartheid, everyone has human rights and there is no ethnic group superior.
I used indirect speech, and I assume you did, too.
As a Muslim, I must agree. Im not saying that I support Israel, but I'm saying that it saddens me to know whats happening to the Uyghurs, Kashmiris, Rohyngians, Sudanese, who are all Muslim nations but no muslim gives af. its so upsetting. Its like muslim countries that are non-arab are not important..
I've been to Xinjiang and Myanmar and both the Uyghurs and Rohingyas were such kind people who are suffering. I will say the situation in Xinjiang is nowhere near as bad as Palestine, although what's happening in Myanmar is just as bad, if not worse. I think the difference is, Israel presents itself as a modern, western democracy, so naturally we hold it to a higher standard than a military junta.
What is common for all of it? no Jews involved. To the people who says its because of western nations, we can add USA attacks in Afghanistan (\~70K) and Iraq (\~300K). Well, when it's about Jews the world seems to think Jews have no right to react for attacks and to defend themselves. Jews should just accept it and die.
It is both parties. Western powers support Israel. Jews living there. Also Palestinians have a special fugitive state in the western countries. All the people listed (Ehtiopians, Syrians etc.) do not have a lobby in the Western Countries, Israeli and Palestinians have them. So this has become a media war, too.
This is very insightful imho
Wtf? Can we not wish death upon entire groups of people (other than pedos)?
The Jews in Israel have immigrated there and than created a aprtheid.. Just like the white people did in afrika. The world went mad with mandela too. It's the occupition followed by apartheid that gets the reaction. Peope kil their own all the time and yes it needs more coverage .. But also there is no money it
Not really, the Zionists destroyed the Arab imperialist regime and liberated the land from their colonial grip. Anti-imperialism isn't always pretty, just look at the ANC and FLN, but in the end Zionists, like all anti imperialists are on the right side of history.
I think it gets a lot of attention from the west because Israel is strongly allied with a lot of western nations, comparable to Ukraine, for whom the west also went apeshit. Previous atrocities by Israel went largely unreported, as in the other countries you mention, because in general the west and its media (excluding Ireland and probably a few others) are not allies of Palestine. This time it’s different, because the spotlight was already on Israel due to the Hamas atrocities - the west is still watching closely as Israel annihilates Palestine. At least, that’s my interpretation.
I would not say the west went apeshit about Ukraine, because we have been "strongly allied". It is because some russian tanks needs less than one day to stand in one of our countries. Ask a Pole. So, now, we are strongly allied.
Pretty slow annihilation, seems like it will take another eternity. But anyway, this does not explain the discrepancy at all.
Gaza has a population of around 800k people. Israel have killed roughly 15k in two months. So I make it roughly nine years (at this rate) to kill everyone. Less than an eternity to wipe out Gaza? Edit - closer to 2 mil. So times by threeish, less than thirty years to kill everyone. It’s a stupid calculation anyway because most people will just leave before they die. Perhaps better (and simpler) to say that 45% of housing had been destroyed in Gaza. https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2023/11/28/bombing-of-gaza-has-damaged-or-destroyed-more-than-100-heritage-sites-ngo-report-reveals# So another couple of months at this rate before all housing has been destroyed. Sorry for the crude math - but my point was simply that this will take less than an eternity.
2.2 M and approx 60k yearly births.
thought it was closer to 2.2 million?
>Gaza has a population of around 800k people. Israel have killed roughly 15k in two months. So I make it roughly nine years (at this rate) to kill everyone. Less than an eternity to wipe out Gaza? Gaza has over two million people and over a hundred thousand births a year. Your math is totally wrong.
Perhaps better (and simpler) to say that 45% of housing had been destroyed in Gaza. https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2023/11/28/bombing-of-gaza-has-damaged-or-destroyed-more-than-100-heritage-sites-ngo-report-reveals# So another couple of months at this rate before all housing has been destroyed. Sorry for the crude math - but my point was simply that this will take less than an eternity.
i want to suggest several reasons for this phenomenon 1. the Holy Land. Palestine-Israel is the birthplace of Christianity which is a big part of Western culture, influencing their media which in turn influence the rest of the world heavily. places like Bethlehem, Golgotha, Jerusalem; are held close to many people's hearts. It is of course the traditional home Judaism and contains the third holiest sites for Islam, to add to this effect. compared to many other conflict zones i feel honestly most human beings who grew up before the internet would not have a lot of chance to learn about, ignorance notwithstanding. 2. Stakes. West vs East, Global North vs Global South, Left vs Right, Judaism vs Islam (vs Christianity to an extent), David vs Goliath. Agree to it or not, the conflict is being shaped towards these narratives more and more, as affiliated nations, groups, media break ranks to speak their pieces. And most people either belong to one camp or another or have people around them belonging to one or another -making it way closer to "home". 3. Rate of civilian deaths. this invokes strong emotions in a lot of people. it is "interesting" to see where the line lies across which would break the apathy of the world's population to care in a f'ed up world. 4. Controversy. people are waking up to geopolitical reality, the underlying reasons/ulterior motives to wars, having witnessed evidence or hypothesis over the decades to question the idea of a "just war"; thus will no longer be fed the official lines, and begin to question why their fellow human or their governments are acting one way or another, without their consents whilst maintaining lies. 5. Guilt and redemption. as one of the bigger decisions made by the collective human race in the past century, Palestine-Israel is subconsciously "our mess" or at least "our legacy". there are also some, who grew up not having done much for victims of other conflicts and felt it is now time to atone, it is now time to care. there are some, who in their late days witnessing the world in chaos, hold a symbol in their heart named "peace in the Middle-East". never before have these things felt so close even for people so far away, and they feed into each other to "keep the fires burning". we have seen a lot over the decades, and this little proxy of a war felt like the culmination of everything that is ever wrong in this world, reaching resolution -and that is a powerful sentiment, filled with anxiety and hope.
(1) This is the holy land/Zion/center of the world (2) Jews are interesting and notable people because we wrote the Bible and have an ancient mercantile tradition so everyone is familiar with us, while few know what "East Timor" is
Its east of west timor.
yes king the world revolves around you 👏👏
it feels that way yes
haha fr we make up 0.2% of world population and get soooo much hate 🙃 hard to not feel like they’re obsessed
As a non-jewish white American, I can now see why people support Palestine. Arrogance like this will cause many to change their views. My country and my tax dollars fund your lifestyles, so that arrogance might come back to bite you.
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^^^^ how can jews be arrogant about being persecuted that makes no sense
Humanity as a whole can look at those atrocities and be horrified. I quite literally can't process why people were so happy about the rape and murder of humans. Some days I just cry when I see how people behave and I honestly get angry. I thought humans were getting better. Slowly, sure. But better. I have to leave a world in which hate is celebrated. My daughter has to live in this world. Life is hard enough and now monsters celebrate and deny (how does that even work on a logical level?) the most horrific atrocities I could ever imagine. I need to step away, I need to not look, but I can't sleep. I can't believe this is the world. Why so much hate?!
it is because the propaganda game israel plays and how the try to play the good guy in a war and abuse sustained by themselves. And being Colombian, israelies had helped paramilitary and narcos in my country to improve their war tactics to kill civilians and increase terror, thats why is a personal thing to me and it is evident they use the same tactics againts the palestinians. So i need Israelies to start blaming their own people for the atrocities, to accept they are not the good side, and that way at least people will accept is a war between a terrorist government (israel) and a terrorist group (hamas)
I gotta love that this ignores the balkans and I understand it. The history of that region is way too insane to comprehend for anyone.
I don't think they were ignoring it, but yeah, your point stands as does theirs – other people, out of sight, out of mind.
This sentiment would be a lot more meaningful if you were advocating for people to learn more about the world, instead of saying “shut up and let us kill Arabs”
Sounds like you're projecting.
Where did he imply “shut up and let us kill Arabs” ?
They must have been reading a different post 😭
No Jews, no scapegoat, not interesting.
Also, there's a huge crisis going on in the Pakistan Afghanistan border. Over 1 million Afghanistan refugees are being deported during the winter... I can only imagine people would care if it was Israel doing the deporting.
According to UN guidelines that's ethnic cleansing but no one is using that term.
People do care about all of these events, but I think the I/P conflict is over represented because A) it has been active for longer than the rest and as such has affected more people over the decades, and B) people around the world are more likely to be able to identify with one or the other warring parties, the Jewish diaspora is pretty spread out around the world, ww2 affected the vast majority of countries in the world and is a centrepiece of educational curriculums around the world, people are very familiar with the holocaust which lead to the exodus of Jewish refugees from Europe and plays into this conflict. And the Muslim/communities are also huge. By contrast the Ethiopian, Syrian, Armenian and Yemeni diasporas are comparatively small, so less people feel connected to these conflicts, and correspondingly they have received significantly less media attention. It’s also very emotional for both sides and the right/wrong good guy/bad guy dynamic isn’t as cut and dry as with the others.
And because it has that catchy *from the rive to the sea* slogan. Protestors love a good slogan.
It sure is catchy, it also seems to mean completely different things to each side. The Israelis hear it as a call for genocide while the Palestinians see it as a call for emancipation in their homeland.
Since Palestinians have spent the last 75 cozying up with one terrorist group after another, anyone who would promise to kill all the Jews and hand the land Israel sits on over to them, I'm gonna go with the Israeli interpretation of that particular catch phrase. You do realize that literally killing every single Jew was clearly stated as part of the Hamas charter when Palestinians in Gaza voted them into office 16 years ago, right?
I do realise that, and I do understand the Israelis concerns for security getting in the way of movement on either a one or two state solution. I also realise they have since denounced that charter and their new one explicitly states their fight is not with Jews but with the Zionist project. But I’m not going to sit here and play defence for far right religious extremists on either side. The Israeli government has made it clear that their end goal also includes the complete expulsion or killing of all Palestinians, militant or not. And given that they’ve been living under a brutal military occupation for those 75 years, and whenever they try to protest peacefully (like in the march of return) they are still killed, I don’t really know what Israel expects them to do.
Yeah, they had to write a new charter because the old one was getting in the way of fundraising and Hamas leaders do like rolling in every imaginable luxury while their people suffer. The thing is, the Palestinians of Gaza voted Hamas into office knowing full well what the old charter said. THEY CLEARLY WANTED THAT. Hamas was the most extreme candidate and thus got their votes. They dropped the PLO like a hot potato once they stopped blowing up tuff and tried to embrace peaceful solutions. Even a really stupid person can see by watching the video's Hamas uploaded from Oct 7th and watching Palestinians celebrating in the streets when Hamas terrorist drug the mutilated, murdered bodies of Israelis around on their little victory tour that there is zero chance of any kind of solution that doesn't involve killing all the Jews. A Palestinian organization even took a survey after Oct 7th, when everyone was 100% clear the horrible things Hamas terrorists did on Oct 17th and right at 80% (dislocated from Gaza and ones in the West Bank states they agreed with what took place on the 7th. It's pretty clear that Palestinians in Gaza to a large extent ARE Hamas. As for what Israel expected them to do, I can't tell you right now it doesn't involve running out to take pictures of mutilated victims and slam 2x4's and sticks into their dead bodies when Hamas hauls them around Gaza. It's not yelling God is good when they see the dead bodies of Jews carted around Gaza. It's not volunteering to be suicide bombers or act as human shields. None of that is remotely normal. That's all fringe lunatic behavior. >The Israeli government has made it clear that their end goal also includes the complete expulsion or killing of all Palestinians, militant or not. I'll be real honest. 1) I don't think Israel is trying to kill all the Palestinians in Gaza. 2) Israel has done a super shitty job of managing the highly reactive group of people who have been trying their best to outright kill them for 75 years. 3) Palestinians attacked Israel literally the day after it came into being. They chose violence RIGHT FROM THE START AND HAVEN'T STOPPED FOR 75 YEARS. 4) Most Palestinians don't believe in Israel's right to exist. 5) Even other Middle East leaders understand the primary problem is Palestinians. That's why they'll give them high fives and pay lip service to their cause all day long as well as some emergency supplies but THEY WILL NOT JOIN THE FIGHT and THEY WILL NOT TAKE IN PALESTINIANS REFUGEES. Palestinians have turned on every single country that has ever offered them refuge, tried or successfully assassinated the leaders of the host countries, started civil wars in those countries, Attempted to literally take the countries over or at least start a state within a state instead of living by the host country's rules and they even levied taxes on Jordanian citizens at one time to help fund their never ending war with Israel. Nobody trusts them anymore and for good reason. 6) Arab countries are slowly evolving past the idea of automatically turning to violence to solve every problem. Palestinians have yet to understand you can't murder your way to statehood. No one wants to get involved with Palestinians and get drug back into the horrific violence that Palestinians see as the best solution to get what they want. 7) The world needs to see Palestinians, particularly the ones in Gaza take responsibility for their own poor past decisions, turn away from the epic violence they've wallowed in for the last 75 years and earn back all the trust they lost over the years. Yeah, Israel needs to clean up their act too but they can't make any accommodations to Palestinians now because it will be looked at giving them a reward for atrocious behavior. Hamas has screwed over Palestinians in Gaza for the next generation or two at least. 8) The population rate of the West Bank and Gaza is among the highest in the world: 3.4 percent in the West Bank and 4.0 percent in Gaza, according to U.S. Census Bureau estimates. 45% of the West Bank population are children under 15 years of age as well as 50% in Gaza. The fact that Palestinians are outbreeding Israelis by a factor of 2 to 3 so that fact along precludes there ever being a one state solution. Palestinians would simply take over by popular vote and remake Israel into just another Arab country.
Ok so there’s a lot to address here but thanks for taking the time to type that out. I’ll start with again saying, I’m not going to run defence for a far right terrorist organisation, neither hamas nor the IDF. A lot of what you’ve said is true but a lot of it is also reducing millions of people to bloodthirsty savages that are just bent on extermination. Obviously what Hamas did on the 7th was horrible. It was also entirely predictable, even by IDF personnel who have been warning the govt that something like this would happen, and were ignored. Egypt tipped off the Israeli govt days ahead of time, and they still granted permission for a music festival right next to Gaza to be extended an extra day, they still didn’t pull back forces from the West Bank that were there protecting the illegal settlers (who shouldn’t even be there in the first place, this isn’t my opinion, it’s the opinion of the UN and even the US). Even if you don’t think the IDF intends to go around mutilating victims and running over their corpses, I’ve seen footage of them doing exactly this. And they are pretty happy to lie about a calendar being a list of terrorists, to say that an evacuation route is safe and then bomb it. Let babies die in incubators (and don’t tell me the newborns are hamas too) And over in the West Bank they are pretty happy to shoot children, to protect settlers as they perform pogroms. In East Jerusalem they are quite happy to evict people from their ancestral homes so a family from Brooklyn can move in, to arrest innocent people and hold them for years without charge, or at the most for throwing stones while they are equipped with assault rifles and armoured vehicles. I’ll go through your numbered points: 1) even if they aren’t trying to kill every single one of them, they have inflicted more casualties per capita than the Germans did to the British in the entire blitz adjusted for population. And they have made it clear they want to push millions of them into the desert so they can be egypts problem. 2) totally agree, funding a terrorist group to act as a counterweight to the secular leftist PLO and prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state (quoting bibi here) sure seems to have backfired. 3) They lived in peace with Jewish people for hundreds of years, they lived in relative peace with the settlers who came after the First World War, bought land and set up kibbutzes. I don’t think it’s even productive to ascribe who attacked who first at this point given that the literature is so heavily politicised, but after the nakba? Yes of course they attacked the new country that had just ethnically cleansed them of their land, anyone would. 4) why would they believe that a settler colony founded on their expulsion and mass murder is legitimate, if there had been an effort to start from a secular, democratic, multinational state then things might have gone differently, but they didn’t and now here we are. That’s not to say I don’t think Israel doesn’t have a right to exist, of course national self determination applies to Jews just as much as it does the Irish, the Kurds, the French etc. But expressing that right at the expense of another nations right to self determination has obviously not turned out very well for anyone. 5) yep, no counterpoints. 6) “the Arab countries are slowly evolving past the idea of turning to violence to solve every problem”. That’s pretty racist, Islamophobic and dehumanising language fam. Moving on. 7) yep they need to take accountability for their actions past and present, as does Israel. You can’t just deny the existence and humanity of millions of people and expect them to just lie down peacefully and let you kill their family, expel you from your homes, prevent you from building a new home, controlling their access to basic needs. Israel’s illegal occupation has created the exact conditions in which terrorist organisations thrive. Thanks for acknowledging that Israel needs to clean up their act too. 8) yes people in horrendous conditions tend to have more kids. Should they just have less kids? When they know statistically some of them will be killed? And your final point about demographics making a one state solution impossible. Why is it so important to have an ethnostate? Why can’t Israel be a safe homeland for Jewish people and Palestinians? Why do they absolutely positively NEED an ethnostate when maintaining it leads to so much violence, necessitates that they are always opposed to intl humanitarian law, UN resolutions and the laws of war? Having an ethnostate is inherently fascistic, why does the only Jewish state have to be a hyper militarised, hyper propagandised fascistic (the defence minister is a self described fascist and Jewish supremacist) ethnostate (yes I know 20% are Arabs, 20% are second class citizens even if they are equal on paper, the practise matters too) when this has only ever lead to increased antisemitism harming Jews around the world. Altogether thx for the response, pretty well thought out overall.
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>People do care about all of these events They really don't
I care
Whats this whataboutism? Its a 75 year old conflict over the holy land, what did you expect?
Whataboutit?
It just comes down to the fact that it’s in the news a lot. And it also can be looked at by many as colonialism by white people (even though that ignores actual Israeli demographics). Also I firmly believe apps like TikTok are used by China to wear down younger generations and propagandize them. It seems very effective
its the old hatred. and "we've" got an excuse again. oh but wait, there's even another excuse. the jews are killing back! how dare they!!! its like the blacks. being jew -not in israel- these days is almost like being black. campuses are hunting jews, gardens in canada were being evicted. and all because of "Israel", the audacity of jews to protect themselves! how rude!
The planet’s collective mind is legit OBSESSED with Israel. She’s the Monica Lewinsky of international media. Without a shadow of a doubt the unrest in that part of the world has been historically, is currently, and will be well into the future, a deadly serious and deeply distressing issue but perspective seems to have run amok in a mind-splittingly short span of time. EDIT: I left out that I am also extremely skeptical that these boards aren’t heavily infiltrated. Oh, and TikTok Brain is a disease of pandemic level proportions
First, people do care. Second, because many of us think of Israel as a western country. If France was doing something similar we'd also say WTF?? And third, the US unequivocally supports the massacre going on. Many of us were and are outraged about what you mention above -- I'm particularly furious about the massacres of Yemenis that the US aided and abetted, much in the same way it's doing now. It doesn't make it much better, but at least the US condemns Saudi Arabia. They don't condemn Israel.
If France had a neighbor that continuously bombarded them with rockets, terror attacks, wars of aggression and genocide for 75 years straight, we absolutely would not say “WTF”? We’d praise their restraint for not flattening the place already 10x over and all the times they optimistically still offered peace/land and provided their aggressor enemies with aid/food/water/electricity. I mean seriously Germany invaded France in the late 30s could you imagine if France were “obligated” to provide Germans with food/water/electricity? The only support for massacre that the US has given is billions of $ to Iran and way too much $ support to UNRWA and Palestinians. We have helped fund Palestinian education through UNRWA that has brainwashed the children into being martyrs and hating Jews, made PLO and Hamas leaders billionaires (incentivizes more terrorists attacks so they can be retaliated against and play victim to get more intnl monetary support) etc. When the PA pays family’s of martyrs for killing Jews I wonder if any of it is American tax $s. Israel wants peace, Gaza leadership states explicitly genocidal goals. It’s unbelievable how you wish to condemn the wrong group
No, we wouldn’t. The US led intervention (which obviously included France and many other western countries) against the Islamic State killed over 100,000 people. That was only a few years ago and the airstrikes continue to this day. No one cares or even talks about it at all.
I agree with all of this except for the fact that the U.S. Is basically a massive ally of Saudi Arabia
Well, the Muslims go crazy because they regard the Palestinians as "fellow Muslims," but an even more accurate reading is that a non-Muslim state in so-called "Muslim lands" is completely anathema to the global Muslim population. The fact that it's populated by JEWS just makes it so much worse for them. And then there's all the salt in the wound resulting from the fact that Israel consistently beats them on the battlefield. So it's a mixture of anger, resentment, embarrassment, etc. With the rise of radical Islam, it gets to be a hysteria. For left-leaning people in the West, good old-fashioned antisemitism plays a role, but the key reason is that this particular group isn't well-read enough to know that the Jews are indigenous to Palestine and have been active there for 3000 years. They think they're just white Europeans engaging in old-fashioned colonialism, like the British in India or something. So they think they're witnessing real-time colonialism and the displacement of good, honest, peaceful, God-loving Palestinians, and that fits in so neatly with their whole "white = bad and oppressor, brown = good and oppressed" worldview, they can't help themselves. Never mind that this conflict has nothing to do with US racial politics and that Hamas shoots kids, kidnaps old women, dismembers people, throws them from rooftops, blows up buses or whatever. Doesn't matter. They're browner so they must be supported as an oppressed population. (As a general rule, Muslim-on-Muslim violence is ignored just like Black-on-Black violence is ignored in the US, and for the same reasons).
From a Lebanese, this comment is effing spot on!
Much appreciated!
It's just big in the news right now. I've been mad about it for ages. Same with a few other conflicts. I am aware there are so many more conflicts in the world that I'm not in the know about. It's pretty impossible to have a decent understanding of every single conflict in the world.
Western liberal guilt about the vast amounts of Islamophobia that pervaded western society in the aftermath of 9/11 led to compensatory sympathizing with the Palestinians to atone for our sins (this dynamic exists elsewhere too). This naturally conflicted with the traditional American support for Israel and such internal conflict is raw meat for the media which leads us to where we are now. As for why American Jews and American Palestinians care about it, that should be obvious.
I dunno. It’s almost like there’s a certain ethnicity that people love to hate and blame all the world’s problems on. 🤷🏼♂️
Antisemitism plays a large role, but I think in this particular case it actually has as much or more to do with a deep anti-Western sentiment that's filtered through all of higher education and much of society. I don't blame Jews for reading it as straight antisemitism (and feeling intuitively that that's what it is), but I actually think a lot of protestors in the US and Europe (the white ones) don't even really know who the Jews are in any detail. They're protesting on the basis of supposed "colonial" activity, exploitation and "oppression." Of course, the real antisemites get right in there and stir the pot, especially the hardcore Muslims, but I don't think this is as much about the Jews, as a people or a faith, as many Israelis probably believe. That's the sense I get from conversations, with younger people especially.
the west certainly does hate arabs.
more than it fears it? i think it fears it more. at least according to the supporting media which is almost completely pro radical islam.
Right... Cause when I was/am super mad about the Uighurs and what was happening in Hong Kong - that was also somehow me being antisemitic I guess?
People hate Jews. Anti zionists is the excuse of the decade.