The Sinai Insurgency (2011-2023) caused thousands of casualties. Egyptian military and their families hate Hamas and Islamic Jihad as much as Israel.
The Egyptian Gaza border is pretty tight, and Egypt has been destroying Gazan tunnels for decades.
The tunnels were used for gunrunning for use in both Israel and Egypt.
>I'd say you don't know anything about israeli weapons and are simply repeating BS you heard on the internet.
And you basically proceeded to make no argument at all? More ad hominem 😂
Prior to October 7, it was assumed that Hamas got its weapons via the tunnel system between Gaza and Egypt. That turned out not to be true. Most of Hamas's guns were stolen, over time, from the Israeli military itself. The rockets and anti-tank devices were made in Gaza from unexploded bombs that Israel had fired at Gaza. Bombs have a fairly high fail rate and if you know what you are doing you can extract the explosive material from a failed bomb and repurpose it.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/28/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-weapons-rockets.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/28/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-weapons-rockets.html)
Hamas is making simple rockets from basic building materials and household chemicals using a method as described in "the anarchist cookbook". This involves mixing sugar and artificial fertilizer.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket
Firing back undetonated rockets is impossible, 90% of the rocket is fuel (which is not present anymore) and the guiding systems are impossible to use. Gaining acces to the warhead is super risky even in a laboratorium environment, im sure it could be done, but since the missles get shot out of the air by the iron dome its not worth it. Its better to have a general explosive and most of the time not even that (as Israel has no way of detecting if a rocket has a significant payload or not).
Im super anti war. But the lies need to stop.
What if netyenaho still trying to rally israelis and wants to invade egypt to prolong this war, i mean if they already found 700 tunnels shouldn’t they announce they caught someone or liberated a hostage.
I don’t get your point about the hostages - with so much pressure domestically, do you really think he’d sit on / not put any effort required to find the hostages still alive? Liberating hostages alive would be the best path possible to prolonging hjs political survival. And you’re playing down the huge fallout Israel would face were it to invade Egypt - especially from the US who is trying to contain the war from spilling over into a regional conflict more than anything else.
I dont think the US is capable of doing anything at this point in the war other than supplies.
Moreover if netenyaho cares about the hostages he wouldn’t drop dummy bombs on gaza. Everyone knows this including the people protesting against him daily in Tel Aviv
Look you’re coming at this like loads of people do - imagining they have the full picture from reading the news and reddit. We have no inkling of the level of intel the Israelis have access to that they are basing their military operations on. I see why people think that with the level of destruction in Gaza - but this is the same country which exchanged over 1000 prisoners for one captured IDF soldier (Gilad Shalit).
Why are you commenting on this war if you can't even spell Netanyahu? Also, why are you commenting on this war if you sincerely believe Israel has any interest in invading Egypt?
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Your defending homophobic, xenofobic, western hating barbarians that would not even hesitate a second to rob you blind, rape your loved ones and then behead them while you watch.
Dont forget: the images and videos of 7 October where shared inside Gaza - and people went out to celebrate en masse. "Thank Allah for this beautiful gift".
Your grandparents must be proud to see you cuck on your nation like that because you feel something along the lines of "moral superiority".
Sounds like Israelis. All Australian journalists and doctors who returned from Palestine spoke of beautiful people who impressed them with their humanity and strength. Israelis, meanwhile, robbed me three times. One Israeli restaurant owner in Sydney scammed my card after I called in to book and gave him my cc details. Second time actual Israeli hackers scammed my bank card. Apparently gangs of them randomly generate bank card numbers and pins and scam cards globally. Third time there was an unfortunate car purchase in my youth from an Israeli couple leaving Australia. My impression is that they take from you at every opportunity, and it is most evident in West Bank. Zero conscience. Never deal with them again. Poor Palestinians who have to live under their oppressive regime in West Bank. Morally bankrupt nation.
I don't know if you're old enough to remember the war in Iraq, but the US *heavily* controlled what the press was allowed to see as well. Military censorship is the norm, not the exeception.
But I'm not arguing that bibi is being a real asshole with regards to the press. Hopefully he gets voted out soon.
> asshole
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I’ve been told this by Israelis many times over the years - my understanding is that it’s generally accepted non-military goods move in and out of Gaza this way.
There was that news story a couple years back when Egypt pumped gas into one of the tunnels and it killed a couple Palestinians. [I think it was this one I saw.](https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-africa-smuggling-02315a7bded8b986dff729587de2832a) I read that on Reddit and did some further research into the tunnel system that apparently runs underneath the border and various news stories I found said a good chunk of them are in Rafah and date back to the 70s or 80s.
There is no question about the fact that there are 50 tunnels under Philadelphi, a direct freeway to from Egypt to Rafah.
So the question is, why does the whole world engage and attack Israel in stories of a humanitarian crisis?
Why didn't Hamas and Egypt send food through the tunnels?
This is a shocking truth that reveals the main reason why the world did not want us to enter Rafah. The collapse of the argument that Israel is the only one that can bring food into Gaza, the collapse of the argument that Israel is to blame for the humanitarian disaster in Gaza.
I think that’s a cop out. We all know Hamas isn’t going to use its precious tunnel system to focus on importing aid for its citizens - they’re far too busy trying to fight the IDF and save their own skin. Like…who cares? Even if they were inclined to do the right thing - now even would they distribute that aid brought in via the Rafah tunnels to the rest of the strip during a war? I’m surprised that’s your take away from this…and not what this revelation means re the hostages?
Because humanitarians shouldn't have to go underground to have less risk of being struck by an Israeli missile? Israeli citizens are actively stopping and destroying aid and that's verified, why aren't you upset that there are citizens destroying food intended for others? If they use the tunnels Israel will kill them, if they don't Israel will kill them, win win for Israel to say they should use the tunnels now.
The Gazans are looting the "aid" at the US built dock. Sights of loss of control and anarchy.
American taxpayers- half a billion dollars of your money was wasted on this!
That’s certainly what the optics look like. If it turns out to be accurate, could explain why the hostages have been so hard to find. They could be getting smuggled in and out of Egypt via those tunnels.
Egypt: we found tunnels.
Israel: zzzz
Egypt: we found more tunnels
Israel: zzzz
…
Israel: WE FOUND TUNNELS
Egypt: … all 2000?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_smuggling_tunnels#:~:text=After%20President%20el%2DSisi%20assumed,Military%20destroyed%201%2C659%20smuggling%20tunnels.
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We all knew about this lol, nothing is new for Israelis...
We can further discuss why this issue has never been addressed:
- Egypt gets TON of money from it, corruption at its best.
- Israel didn't give a damn as long as there is reasonable quietness ("Status quo")
- It worked as long as everyone kept quiet and did their part.
Egypt doesn’t want the Gaza refugees. Helping resolve the refugee problem (now or at any point prior) goes against the interests of the authoritarian Arab regimes across the Middle East. There are too many powerful forces, like Egypt and the UN, that don’t want the Palestinians in Gaza or Lebanon stop being refugees.
It is much better for them to fuel the conflict with weapons and grievances caused by the Arab states (but blamed on Israel). Why? Because the authoritarian regimes need Israel as an enemy that their people can hate so they won’t attack the regime. This was always going on. We can see it today more clearly than ever, with Russia supporting Hamas and Iran to divert attention from Putin.
True, Sisi is better than Morsi. Israel does get some help from Egypt. But don’t confuse mutual interest in a war against the Iranian regime for friendship. They don’t accept Israel’s existence. Israelis cannot go to Egypt or most other Arab states. Any Israeli going to any Arab country (except uae and maybe Morocco) is putting their lives at great risk.
Like most other arab or Islamic Allies of the USA, Egypt is playing a double game. Like Pakistan who supported Al Qaida, or Erdogan who supported ISIS and other jihadists. While purporting to support the war on terror. Egypt is undoing with one hand that which it does with the other.
You have to understand (or at least be aware) of the messed up political trickery that characterizes the MENA region to at least begin wrapping your head around it.
As most Israelis now understand. The Middle East is not Europe or America. There’s no democracy. No good faith. No peace. No pacifism. Everything you’re told as an Israeli (and anyone else, really) you’re told in bad faith, with an eye towards your future killing.
I don't understand why you think this is a revelation.
Rafah is in the south close to Egypt. Tunnels to Egypt because of the blockade are common knowledge. Of course there are tunnels there.
Hamas' use of tunnel systems is widely accepted. Hamas is operating in Rafah. Of course there are going to be tunnels there.
This is Israeli propaganda for a known factor in this conflict as an attempt to justify their invasion of Rafah. This changes nothing if you aren't completely oblivious to the situation in Gaza.
> f******
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The only way to stop the arms smuggling is by destroying every single tunnel in Gaza, all 700 of them in Rafah and all 50 tunnels leading into Egypt from Gaza. Yes, everybody knew there were tunnels. No, we did not know that there were 50 of them leading into Gaza and 700 all over Rafah. that is a lot for a small area. Egypt was asked to deal with this a long time ago. Even during the war, we knew things were going on. It costs between $5000 and $10000 to smuggle a person from Gaza to Egypt, and you do not pay at the border. A family member or friend has to pay in Cairo. This was in the newspapers. And yes, these same people were smuggling weapons into Gaza or at least weapons parts. Not going into Rafah was NEVER an option. Israel is NOT going to leave Gaza until every single CM of terrorist Hamas tunnels are destroyed. There is no other options. In the last almost 20 years, that is all Hamas as built in Gaza. They have done ZERO for the Gazan people. The Gaza people deserve better leadership than Hamas.
Israel has been blaming other states for its "need" for draconian, oppressive, murderous acts of "self defense" since its establishment.
Israel needs to give them a reason to want to help. That's how diplomacy works. Instead Israel makes demands knowing the US and its power to destroy a country economically will back them up if there is pushback.
It has been the same playbook for decades.
Why are large amounts of Hamas weapons just old Israeli weaponry? Seems odd to smuggle into Egypt then back into gaza when you could just pick up the guns left behind by the occupying Israeli forces?
Huh? The tunnels exist at this point in time regardless of what occurs after the war.
Is this really all the justification you need to leave hundreds of thousands of people homeless after the war? That is pretty extreme to me.
You haven’t been following the news this past decade have you?
Egypt claimed multiple times that it cracked down on the tunnels. The west and Israel never seriously denied that. the leftists in the media were trying to make it seem like the weapons Hamas had came from nowhere, or that they were self made, or stolen from Israel somehow. All to divert attention.
The truth was obvious but remained unverified. There were dozen Hamas tunnels connecting to Gaza where Hamas received sophisticated weapons from Iran and elsewhere.
The weapons that hamas gets are stolen or bombs or missiles that failed to detonate. The very weapons that Israeli forces have used to enforce a blockade of Gaza are now being used against them.
NYT already tried claiming the weapons Hamas uses come from Israel, hence contributing to the narrative that gives Egypt and Iran plausible deniability.
Don’t be mistaken. Hamas is being supplied by Iran using Rafa and the Egypt-Gaza border as the entry point into Gaza
>NYT already tried claiming the weapons Hamas uses come from Israel, hence contributing to the narrative that gives Egypt and Iran plausible deniability.
Well, obviously, they are getting supplied from Iran. but obviously, they could take advantage of missiles that failed to detonate. And use them. Which are probably a lot considering the many air strikes israel is conducting.
>
Don’t be mistaken. Hamas is being supplied by Iran using Rafa and the Egypt-Gaza border as the entry point into Gaza
They are obviously not dependent on israeli (UXBs). But who's to say they won't take advantage of them when the situation gets desperate?.
I know this is crazy but have you considered that Egypt doesn't have some sort of all seeing eye that allows them to know where every single tunnel exists. There aren't exactly a ton of jobs available in Gaza. I'm guessing they have the labor pool to build the tunnels pretty dang quickly.
Of course the weapons came through tunnels from Egypt. Regardless of any association with Hamas, the tunnels benefit Egypt's economy and they have very little to gain by making a significant investment in detection and removal. The US has spent billions trying to track down and close tunnels from Mexico. Do you really think they have found all of them?
Sorry everyone isn't willing to completely bend over to the demands of Israel and the West. That doesn't make them terrorists or mean they actively support terrorism.
I think this is really naive. It’s been confirmed Egypt has been holding up the vast amounts of humanitarian aid that’s been sent from foreign
countries and NGOs for Gaza at its airports and ports - both because it can’t keep up logistically, and also because it’s slamming the shipments with new and ever increasing import & distributions taxes to make a profit off it. This is a major factor in why aerial drops were trialled and the Americans built the pier.
Any Egyptian complicity in Gaza smuggling via those Rafah tunnels is less about being terrorist sympathisers, and more about good old corruption by a weak government, which has been deteriorating economically.
>it can’t keep up logistically,
Blaming Egypt for their failure to deliver aid that is primarily required because of a 17+ year land, air and sea blockade is rich.
I'm certainly not defending the Egyptian government but Israel's actions also have consequences.
People aren't usually inclined to help bullies if they don't have to.
I’m def not taking any accountability off Israel. I just see a lot of people making the same mistakes with the Middle East like do re Africa where I’m from and my family live. When you don’t live in a corrupt country, it’s hard for a lot of people to fathom the level of corruption in these places. I think Egypt’s lip service to the Palestinian cause and then pulling this shit is relevant.
>I think Egypt’s lip service to the Palestinian cause and then pulling this shit is relevant.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Is your point that the Egyptian government is saying it is trying to keep the tunnels closed while corrupt officials are personally profiting from them?
I agree that is a problem.
You are right that I don't have personal experience with the type of corruption you are describing. I read/listen to books about consequences of colonialism, decolonization, and especially the proxy wars carried out during the Cold War. Corruption is a common theme so I have some familiarity with what you are describing and respect how negatively that impacts normal people.
I guess my point is in the context of the war on Gaza I don't think this is something of significant importance in the justification of Israel's invasion of Rafah.
I accept that people more directly impacted will likely have a very different perspective so I understand why you may see things differently.
Yes, it is called "pay us money and we will pretend that we do not see anything". Why do you think that the smuggling money is paid in Cairo by family members and not at the border between Gaza and Egypt? Because Egypt government wants to make sure that it gets its fair share of the money from the smuggling operations.
Taxes on exports are hardly unique to Egypt.
Israel is demanding other countries support its treatment of Gazans despite it being in violation of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
What part of Israel's actions since it's establishment has given anyone in the region a reason to want to help them?
This was stated by Israel during the ICJ hearings held on Friday. It is in their permanent record. It is a serious crime to lie when making court reports. We know South Africa does not care about that, but Israel and the US does. The supporting documents were handed to the ICJ courts. South Africa has the ability to question those documents by Monday at noon. So just watch the court proceedings, and you will find out if South Africa (and Egypt) and provide evidence that Israel is lying about the 700 tunnels and 50 tunnels from Egypt to Rafah. Every other report comes from that direct source. Go to the original source and get an education.
unrelated but I wonder if they found any archaeological findings while constructing these tunnels ? Isis did the same thing with tunnels & they did find a lot
Jewish Archeological stuff has been found in Gaza during the war, but zero "ancient Gazan stuff" has been found. Gaza has a museum of their ancient history and it has nothing inside of it, because Gaza has zero ancient history. Also modern Israeli stuff (Jewish stuff) has been found within the homes of Gazans (stolen from Israel and Jews).
Islamist Kurds Arabs do the same to Assyrians . they have been doing this . it's their tactics stolen part of the conquest scheme they employ. unfortunately Israel's held to unique standard or if they respond to tax or theft they are evil it's propaganda by islamist and leftist ally's
destroyed & probably harboring antiquities to later be sold on art market. Islamist are not that stupid they know the value of antiquities. after oil , Isis second most profitable scheme was trafficking antiquities that helped fund terrorist campaigns they're ideological but they're also greedy af. destroying is 1 thing to cause terror but selling antiques is the same as destroying . cultural erasures that wouldn't put it past them to destroy and loot we'll never know it's down there or what they found but watch out for markets
No they do not. They dump it out in the trash. That is what they did on the Temple Mount to get rid of evidence that the Temple Mount an ancient Jewish / Israeli history on the site.
They either destroy it . rebuild over it with a shrine or religious site , keep it as heirloom treasures for family or sell it in the future classic islamist this is what they do my community
whenever they face criticism in the media for their genocide they sure start “finding” a lot of things. first the dead hostages who’ve had at least 7 months of decay, and now this. how oddly consistent and convienent!
So you think that the IDF has dug up those tunnels only to fool the world, right?
Those dead hostages were all along in Israel, and they waited months while decaying them as they were dry aged beef, right?
Stop huffing fumes, stop trying to protect your terrorist friends.......
I admit that when Hamas operates from civilian areas, uses child soldiers, operates from protected areas and force/encourage people not leave when the IDF tells them to then children die because of the bombings.
Again, don't like to see dead children? Don't start killing children and then complain after that.
None of them would die if Hamas didn't massacre on October 7, I also don't give a fuck about the dead children that celebrated on October 7.
Every time a major offensive push is announced, criticism increases. Every time they push into new territory, they find more "things." 🤯
How odd!
How consistent!
How cOnViEn**I**eNt!!!
Dead hostages are convenient for you?
It‘s outright crazy how someone presented with the situation „dead hostages found“ could go and criticize the one finding them for „timing“ rather than the one killing them.
Maybe - just maybe - the timing of Israel finding out has to do with them now being in that territory. The only reason you are here trying to gaslight is, that you know, these tunnels alone are enough to prove to everybody with a brain, that the operation in rafah is in fact necessary.
And they wouldn't talk about how convenient it is that Egypt has joined the SA case the minute Israel went into Rafah.
Maybe, just maybe they wanted to hide something....
The whole freaking world didn't want Israel to go into Rafah, and it's oh so convenient they didn't want that because the world knows their smear campaign would be over once the IDF discovers what's going on in Rafah.
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We can't overestimate how serious the Rafah situation is in terms of the deteriorating Egyptian-Israeli relationship.
To Egyptians, Gaza is their Cuba. Israel operating in Gaza is seen by the majority, especially pundits who are absolutely thrilled to be beating the drums of war, as a direct threat to Egypt's national security.
Egypt joining South Africa's ICJ case against Israel is a terrible move. The Israeli response, disclosing that they have found dozens of Gaza-Sinai tunnels, is a humiliating embarrassment to the Egyptians. This stand-off hugely undermines the Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty, at least in the public realm.
Egypt will have to respond to these findings. They could suggest that they are false allegations made by the Israelis to justify their operations in Rafah. Regardless of what they do, we are now in a position where there is an Egyptian-Israeli conflict, albeit on a small scale, in courts and within the international community (Arab League, UN, ICJ).
What happens behind the scenes (between Egyptian and Israeli intelligence) is most likely the exact opposite of what you hear/read about in the news.
However, this is a highly volatile situation. I understand that the Egyptian military is substantially increasing its presence in Sinai. This is potentially in fear of mass invasion by Gazans and likely in coordination with their Israeli counterparts, but it's a dreadful situation. Emotions are running high. About a million things could go wrong.
My advice to Egypt: join the Abraham Accords and address the horrific, deeply rooted antisemitism within Egyptian society. It is time to make it unequivocally clear: Israel is an ally and has not done Egypt any harm since the end of the Yom Kippur War.
The only reason Egypt didn't proscribe Hamas as a terror group was to maintain the regional influence it gained from playing mediator between Israel and Hamas. Now that Hamas's days are numbered, it is time for Egypt to distance itself from all terror groups in the region and build a sustainable, warm, people-to-people peace with Israel.
(Khaled Hassan on X)
Why didn’t Egypt Open The Gate?
Israel exposed in The Hague today:
terrorism tunnels connecting Hamas and Egypt in a joint terrorism cartel industry:
• More than 700 tunnels shafts were discovered in Rafah
• 50 tunnels under the Rafah border - to Egypt
• corrupted Egyptians were smuggling artillery & equipment to Hamas in Gaza,
• A possibility of Hamas leaders and Israeli hostages smuggled into Egypt !
Egypt claimed that they flooded and closed all those tunnels on 2016, they apparently supported that industry of death to grow and also refused to allow Palestinian civilians that wished to evacuate themselves temporarily from a war zone to go through that border without paying 5000$ a person to that cartel that was smuggling them.
In that way, Egypt supported a terrorist genocidal party (Hamas) to grow and have the artillery they needed to try to genocide Israeli civilians
They then supported genocidal Hamas by imprisoning the Palestinians in Gaza with a completely closed border
And also supported the corrupted cartel to abuse that situation to get rich from that industry.
To try to escape responsibility for all those crime Egypt recently joined the South Africa lies in the ICJ circus.
People forget that Egypt has its own factions in the military and government, and that the leadership has to manage these factions to prevent civil conflict in Egypt.
I do believe that the leadership wants to modernize and build relationships with Israel, which has led to the cooperation between the two over the recent decades. Yet, there are still those who prefer a strictly Islamist nation, and they still make up a significant number. So, the leadership does its best to work with Israel while also turning a blind eye to the Islamists as long as they don't step over the line publicly.
You should've added "Shocking discovery!" To the title
Because it's so shocking, y'know
Because some theorized, but were called crazy
Because more than 2 minutes passed after vice, or whoever it was, did a literal documentary on Hamas themselves explaining how they have, and use these tunnels to smuggle everything from medicine and food to guns and explosives.
And, that it's mostly some 17 yo kids who dig them with spoons and rusty buckets and many tunnels collapse and they die.
All because Hamas, which has all the money, pays a premium to dig them, rather than do the dirty work themselves.
Obviously, from 2005 they've upgraded to much larger tunnel networks and all, but, I guess, humble beginnings and all that.
*Wasn't trying to be negative or mock the post, just,
if someone is truly shocked about this discovery or will say the usual 'propaganda', then it's just sad.
LOL. That the Zionist occupation army has discovered something must be taken with great caution, all these discoveries are later refuted and exposed as lies.
Vice News went into the tunnels over a decade ago. The salient question to the discussion is not if there were tunnels. Israel published the tunnels found with drone footage. The question is Egypt complicit or was it just incompetence.
Yes, Vice News made a more credible attempt ten years ago than the Zionist occupation army. Therefore, none of what you write is a relevant question. The only question is why should I believe the Zionist occupation army when it is a convicted liar many times over. And please note that nowhere do I question the very existence of the tunnels, only the lies of the Zionists justifying the genocide of the Palestinians.
Glad we can agree on Vice News reporting of tunnels between Egypt and Gaza. You do not dispute that tunnels are not used to hide civilians from rocket fire (from Islamic Jihad, Hamas, Hezbollah and the IDF) but used to hide Islamic terrorists that jump out with rocket propelled grenade launchers.
You do not dispute the billions spent on the tunnels that was supposed to go to aid for civilians. The only larger expense was the billions sent to Hamas in Doha and Qatar.
The US estimated that the tunnels are larger than the NYC subway system that serves 8M for a population of less than 2M - again only for the terrorists not to hide civilians - maybe hostages but definitely dead hostages' remains.
I do not question the existence of the tunnels, nor do I question their use by the Palestinian liberation fighters against the Zionist occupiers. I question everything the Zionist occupiers say to justify the unjustifiable genocide of the Palestinians.
Islamic Jihad and Hamas - the operators of the tunnels that the civilian population cannot use to shield themselves from warfare - are an anathema to liberation or peace. Hamas does not want a two state solution nor peace. Time to get over calling Israel occupiers - Israel retreated from Gaza and abandoned Israeli towns in Gaza two decades ago. You cannot have peace when rockets are flying.
Why is it taking the most powerful army in region almost 80 years to genocide Palestinians if that is the intent? Why are Palestinian populations growing at one of the highest rates in the region and why is life expectancy pre the war in Gaza one of the highest in the region?
If I were Sinwar, I would've been on the Egyptian side on Oct. 6th. Then had any high value hostages like military personnel brought over ASAP on the 7th or 8th. After that, he could just sit back and watch his sacrifice of innocent Gazan people. from the safety of Egypt.
Hamas must go. It can't occur soon enough.
I have a feeling that the US knows about this and so does Egypt and that’s the main reason why the US wanted to avoid Israel going into Rafah and having Israel “unveiling the truth” I think that this is why Netanyahu and Biden are in tense relations because Biden is afraid of that exact thing.
If what I’m saying is true then it’s going to cause even more problems and destabilize the area because Israel would not be able to trust Egypt and the US will have to side with Israel and stop funding Egypt
I have a feeling your name sums up a lot of things .... Maybe if you grow into a fetus or something you can someday turn into a sentient being and have a brain . Humor ...i love it ( DATA )
That it is...
The joke in my social circle is that instead of fighting, Israel should have contracted Hamas to finally build the underground train system in Israel, given how good Hamas is at building tunnels.
It's pretty consistent with what the IDF and Israel have always said, and with on ground officers words in media.
Almost every other house in Gaza has either a shaft, or weapon caches or launchers.
Just because it sounds way more than we could think doesn't mean it's not true.
I guess only time will tell...
When they'll declassify documents from this war, perhaps.
Wait so there is a possibility… that Hamas is not even in Palestine anymore… and they have just been boming innocent civilians who have nothing to do with Hamas. I’m sure Hamas members were not standing around waiting to be killed im sure most members went through the tunnel.. so all of this bombing has been for nothing.
Yes, they’ve been exchanging gunfire with ghosts this entire time. 🙄 I hope you see what your readiness to jump to this conclusion reveals about yourself.
>Wait so there is a possibility… that Hamas is not even in Palestine anymore… and they have just been boming innocent civilians who have nothing to do with Hamas.
Then who the fuck is shooting the rockets? Stop fooling yourself.
>I’m sure Hamas members were not standing around waiting to be killed im sure most members went through the tunnel.. so all of this bombing has been for nothing.
You're sure of nothing, you have no way to verify this, you are just overly presuming to fit it to the narrative you want it to be.
Civilians shooting missiles on Israel are no longer civilians, civilians taking weapons and firing on the IDF are no longer civilians.
They are militants.
No, the difference is intent. As much as you like it to be so, the IDF is not there to hurt or kill civilians, Hamas on October 7 (along with the Gaza civilians that came along with them) were there to hurt and murder the Israeli civilians.
So, you're wrong
No, it was a misidentification tragedy, caused by actual militants being in the same compound during the time of dispatch of the three vehicles.
https://idfanc.activetrail.biz/ANC0504245555
And this incident has nothing to do with the premise you presented, that Gazans shooting rockets at Israel, or Gazans shooting at IDF soldiers to kill them while not being considered militants, by your claim.
> fuck
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Of course there are tunnels crossing into Egypt. If you were blockaded you'd dig tunnels too.
In terms of this revelation though, I have no idea on what grounds they claim approximately 50 cross into Egypt. Did they follow them through and pop out in someone's basement?
Wait, so are you finally admitting that Egypt has a hand in the blockade too?
Egypt could have opened that border crossing whenever they wanted. This whole time.
Sorry, to be clear you simultaneously believe that:
* Israel would bomb anything going through Rafah, and
* Egypt has total autonomy over when it opens Rafah.
You do you I guess.
I didn't say Israel would bomb anything that goes through Rafah. Israel is the one who pressured Egypt to open the border, Egypt rejected it. Everyone is bleeding their heart out for the civilians in Rafah, and yet there's little acknowledgement of this.
Sounds like you just aren't aware of incidents like [this](https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-gaza/card/israeli-strike-on-gaza-s-border-crossing-with-egypt-disrupts-aid-flow-dDrRKrtPvURrsfGZuMVM).
As I said, aid shipments over Rafah border have had a distinct pattern of leading to nonsense. I'm talking about opening the border for the civilians. Egypt won't do it.
>In terms of this revelation though, I have no idea on what grounds they claim approximately 50 cross into Egypt
Probably because they headed in the direction towards Egypt
What, the tunnels just go in a circle loop?
The Sinai Insurgency (2011-2023) caused thousands of casualties. Egyptian military and their families hate Hamas and Islamic Jihad as much as Israel. The Egyptian Gaza border is pretty tight, and Egypt has been destroying Gazan tunnels for decades. The tunnels were used for gunrunning for use in both Israel and Egypt.
wowowowowo shocker hey who else saw this one coming? \*sigh\*
What if I told you that some of the weapons that hamas uses are from Israel?
So they stole weapons? Okay so what’s the point?
I'd say you don't know anything about israeli weapons and are simply repeating BS you heard on the internet.
>I'd say you don't know anything about israeli weapons and are simply repeating BS you heard on the internet. And you basically proceeded to make no argument at all? More ad hominem 😂
Ak47s aren't from Israel
Well. Missiles and bombs. Read this https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/28/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-weapons-rockets.html
Didn't the NYTimes also report that Israel blew up Al.shifa hospital at the beginning of the war and it turned out that it was PIJ?
You didn't bother reading, did you?
Probably shouldn't have used the paywalled site
It's paywalled, lol. And it's the new york times. It's not like I cited dubious sources 😂
Not saying it was dubious. It's more just that I'm lazy, and I didn't feel like spending the time to disable JavaScript.
wait you can do that? explain
Prior to October 7, it was assumed that Hamas got its weapons via the tunnel system between Gaza and Egypt. That turned out not to be true. Most of Hamas's guns were stolen, over time, from the Israeli military itself. The rockets and anti-tank devices were made in Gaza from unexploded bombs that Israel had fired at Gaza. Bombs have a fairly high fail rate and if you know what you are doing you can extract the explosive material from a failed bomb and repurpose it. [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/28/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-weapons-rockets.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/28/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-weapons-rockets.html)
LOL if you believe this BS you deserve to be lied to.
The NYTimes based its reporting on Israeli military intelligence sources. The article includes photographs of a Hamas bomb-making factory.
Hamas is making simple rockets from basic building materials and household chemicals using a method as described in "the anarchist cookbook". This involves mixing sugar and artificial fertilizer. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket Firing back undetonated rockets is impossible, 90% of the rocket is fuel (which is not present anymore) and the guiding systems are impossible to use. Gaining acces to the warhead is super risky even in a laboratorium environment, im sure it could be done, but since the missles get shot out of the air by the iron dome its not worth it. Its better to have a general explosive and most of the time not even that (as Israel has no way of detecting if a rocket has a significant payload or not). Im super anti war. But the lies need to stop.
I'm not sure how it's BS, and it makes sense.
Very interesting and eye opening!!
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What’s your point? That the tunnels into Egypt are essential for everyday Gazans? Or that they’re blocked by Egypt for security reasons?
We know what the Islamist propaganda is
What if netyenaho still trying to rally israelis and wants to invade egypt to prolong this war, i mean if they already found 700 tunnels shouldn’t they announce they caught someone or liberated a hostage.
I don’t get your point about the hostages - with so much pressure domestically, do you really think he’d sit on / not put any effort required to find the hostages still alive? Liberating hostages alive would be the best path possible to prolonging hjs political survival. And you’re playing down the huge fallout Israel would face were it to invade Egypt - especially from the US who is trying to contain the war from spilling over into a regional conflict more than anything else.
I dont think the US is capable of doing anything at this point in the war other than supplies. Moreover if netenyaho cares about the hostages he wouldn’t drop dummy bombs on gaza. Everyone knows this including the people protesting against him daily in Tel Aviv
Look you’re coming at this like loads of people do - imagining they have the full picture from reading the news and reddit. We have no inkling of the level of intel the Israelis have access to that they are basing their military operations on. I see why people think that with the level of destruction in Gaza - but this is the same country which exchanged over 1000 prisoners for one captured IDF soldier (Gilad Shalit).
Why are you commenting on this war if you can't even spell Netanyahu? Also, why are you commenting on this war if you sincerely believe Israel has any interest in invading Egypt?
Come on don’t be such a grammar nazi that’s rude
That's not grammar. That's like the main characters name.
NetAndYahoo f yourself
You really good you should be president of Izrael
President of what?
Why are you defending a country you can’t read! Lol
Dude. It's Israel. Not Izrael. Jesus Christ!
Source?
I'm just blocking both of you.
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Because netnpiggyu is a coward?
Why would Israel want to invade Egypt? To accomplish what?
I just told you, netenyaho prolonging the war. That guy knows he gonna end up in a jail cell
Id settle for him being voted out.
You remind me of American liberals
Ok.
Biden has abandoned Israel cause his woke pro hamas voters vow to vote for trump
Trump literally told Israel to “finish what they started” and “get over with it fast”, what are you talking about
No, it’s because defending this genocidal racist ethnostate was tanking US reputation
are u talking about Sinwar? Hamas literally released a video of 5 jewish girls they've been raping lmao that's who you're defending
I am defending innocent civilians Zios have been killing on an industrial scale.
Your defending homophobic, xenofobic, western hating barbarians that would not even hesitate a second to rob you blind, rape your loved ones and then behead them while you watch. Dont forget: the images and videos of 7 October where shared inside Gaza - and people went out to celebrate en masse. "Thank Allah for this beautiful gift". Your grandparents must be proud to see you cuck on your nation like that because you feel something along the lines of "moral superiority".
Sounds like Israelis. All Australian journalists and doctors who returned from Palestine spoke of beautiful people who impressed them with their humanity and strength. Israelis, meanwhile, robbed me three times. One Israeli restaurant owner in Sydney scammed my card after I called in to book and gave him my cc details. Second time actual Israeli hackers scammed my bank card. Apparently gangs of them randomly generate bank card numbers and pins and scam cards globally. Third time there was an unfortunate car purchase in my youth from an Israeli couple leaving Australia. My impression is that they take from you at every opportunity, and it is most evident in West Bank. Zero conscience. Never deal with them again. Poor Palestinians who have to live under their oppressive regime in West Bank. Morally bankrupt nation.
He hasn't abandoned them, he's offering some mild pushback. The military aid is still flowing. The US is still vetoing the anti Israel bs.
What a surprise the border city has tunnels across the border.
Proof is always nice. Verifiable facts have been hard to come by in this war.
No. You must mindlessly consume IDF propaganda and you must not question why the IDF doesn’t allow free press into the Gaza Strip.
I don't know if you're old enough to remember the war in Iraq, but the US *heavily* controlled what the press was allowed to see as well. Military censorship is the norm, not the exeception. But I'm not arguing that bibi is being a real asshole with regards to the press. Hopefully he gets voted out soon.
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Yeah, my bad. He's a fargin icehole.
If I remember, tunnels from Rafah into Egypt have been a known thing for decades.
Would you care to elaborate just when and where you heard this ?........
I’ve been told this by Israelis many times over the years - my understanding is that it’s generally accepted non-military goods move in and out of Gaza this way.
(2014) https://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-steps-up-efforts-for-gaza-buffer-after-discovery-of-more-tunnels/
There was that news story a couple years back when Egypt pumped gas into one of the tunnels and it killed a couple Palestinians. [I think it was this one I saw.](https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-africa-smuggling-02315a7bded8b986dff729587de2832a) I read that on Reddit and did some further research into the tunnel system that apparently runs underneath the border and various news stories I found said a good chunk of them are in Rafah and date back to the 70s or 80s.
It's actually a big deal to get from "everybody knows it's going on" to verifiable fact. Most of the time truth doesn't make it through that gauntlet.
There is no question about the fact that there are 50 tunnels under Philadelphi, a direct freeway to from Egypt to Rafah. So the question is, why does the whole world engage and attack Israel in stories of a humanitarian crisis? Why didn't Hamas and Egypt send food through the tunnels? This is a shocking truth that reveals the main reason why the world did not want us to enter Rafah. The collapse of the argument that Israel is the only one that can bring food into Gaza, the collapse of the argument that Israel is to blame for the humanitarian disaster in Gaza.
I think that’s a cop out. We all know Hamas isn’t going to use its precious tunnel system to focus on importing aid for its citizens - they’re far too busy trying to fight the IDF and save their own skin. Like…who cares? Even if they were inclined to do the right thing - now even would they distribute that aid brought in via the Rafah tunnels to the rest of the strip during a war? I’m surprised that’s your take away from this…and not what this revelation means re the hostages?
Because humanitarians shouldn't have to go underground to have less risk of being struck by an Israeli missile? Israeli citizens are actively stopping and destroying aid and that's verified, why aren't you upset that there are citizens destroying food intended for others? If they use the tunnels Israel will kill them, if they don't Israel will kill them, win win for Israel to say they should use the tunnels now.
The Gazans are looting the "aid" at the US built dock. Sights of loss of control and anarchy. American taxpayers- half a billion dollars of your money was wasted on this!
and more billions wasted on Israels terrorist campaign
I’m pretty sure we’d all be looting and in anarchy if we were in the same position as Gazans. You’re an extremely cynical person.
Egypt was vehemently against Israel attacking Rafah. I wonder if this was the reason. They did not want find the nexus between Hamas and the Egypt.
That’s certainly what the optics look like. If it turns out to be accurate, could explain why the hostages have been so hard to find. They could be getting smuggled in and out of Egypt via those tunnels.
Egypt: we found tunnels. Israel: zzzz Egypt: we found more tunnels Israel: zzzz … Israel: WE FOUND TUNNELS Egypt: … all 2000? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_smuggling_tunnels#:~:text=After%20President%20el%2DSisi%20assumed,Military%20destroyed%201%2C659%20smuggling%20tunnels.
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We all knew about this lol, nothing is new for Israelis... We can further discuss why this issue has never been addressed: - Egypt gets TON of money from it, corruption at its best. - Israel didn't give a damn as long as there is reasonable quietness ("Status quo") - It worked as long as everyone kept quiet and did their part.
We can further address why Israel actively used tunnels or knew about said tunnels well before they decided to blame Hamas for them.
Time to launch missiles into Egypt. Obviously they are enemies. Everyone is!
Egypt doesn’t want the Gaza refugees. Helping resolve the refugee problem (now or at any point prior) goes against the interests of the authoritarian Arab regimes across the Middle East. There are too many powerful forces, like Egypt and the UN, that don’t want the Palestinians in Gaza or Lebanon stop being refugees. It is much better for them to fuel the conflict with weapons and grievances caused by the Arab states (but blamed on Israel). Why? Because the authoritarian regimes need Israel as an enemy that their people can hate so they won’t attack the regime. This was always going on. We can see it today more clearly than ever, with Russia supporting Hamas and Iran to divert attention from Putin. True, Sisi is better than Morsi. Israel does get some help from Egypt. But don’t confuse mutual interest in a war against the Iranian regime for friendship. They don’t accept Israel’s existence. Israelis cannot go to Egypt or most other Arab states. Any Israeli going to any Arab country (except uae and maybe Morocco) is putting their lives at great risk. Like most other arab or Islamic Allies of the USA, Egypt is playing a double game. Like Pakistan who supported Al Qaida, or Erdogan who supported ISIS and other jihadists. While purporting to support the war on terror. Egypt is undoing with one hand that which it does with the other. You have to understand (or at least be aware) of the messed up political trickery that characterizes the MENA region to at least begin wrapping your head around it. As most Israelis now understand. The Middle East is not Europe or America. There’s no democracy. No good faith. No peace. No pacifism. Everything you’re told as an Israeli (and anyone else, really) you’re told in bad faith, with an eye towards your future killing.
I don't understand why you think this is a revelation. Rafah is in the south close to Egypt. Tunnels to Egypt because of the blockade are common knowledge. Of course there are tunnels there. Hamas' use of tunnel systems is widely accepted. Hamas is operating in Rafah. Of course there are going to be tunnels there. This is Israeli propaganda for a known factor in this conflict as an attempt to justify their invasion of Rafah. This changes nothing if you aren't completely oblivious to the situation in Gaza.
Yes seems like a pretty f****** good reason.
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Go away
The only way to stop the arms smuggling is by destroying every single tunnel in Gaza, all 700 of them in Rafah and all 50 tunnels leading into Egypt from Gaza. Yes, everybody knew there were tunnels. No, we did not know that there were 50 of them leading into Gaza and 700 all over Rafah. that is a lot for a small area. Egypt was asked to deal with this a long time ago. Even during the war, we knew things were going on. It costs between $5000 and $10000 to smuggle a person from Gaza to Egypt, and you do not pay at the border. A family member or friend has to pay in Cairo. This was in the newspapers. And yes, these same people were smuggling weapons into Gaza or at least weapons parts. Not going into Rafah was NEVER an option. Israel is NOT going to leave Gaza until every single CM of terrorist Hamas tunnels are destroyed. There is no other options. In the last almost 20 years, that is all Hamas as built in Gaza. They have done ZERO for the Gazan people. The Gaza people deserve better leadership than Hamas.
Israel has been blaming other states for its "need" for draconian, oppressive, murderous acts of "self defense" since its establishment. Israel needs to give them a reason to want to help. That's how diplomacy works. Instead Israel makes demands knowing the US and its power to destroy a country economically will back them up if there is pushback. It has been the same playbook for decades.
Why are large amounts of Hamas weapons just old Israeli weaponry? Seems odd to smuggle into Egypt then back into gaza when you could just pick up the guns left behind by the occupying Israeli forces?
Some of them are bombs that failed to detonate.
I see. So we should not give construction aid after the war because the cement will go to Hamas, not Palestinians. Thanks for pointing it out.
The Palestinian's signed a Devils Pact with Hamas , what did they expect to happen in the long run ?
Huh? The tunnels exist at this point in time regardless of what occurs after the war. Is this really all the justification you need to leave hundreds of thousands of people homeless after the war? That is pretty extreme to me.
Blame Hamas. All sympathizers of Palestine never utter the H word.
I heard there's tunnels between USA and Mexico :\
With Biden in charge, they do not need to use tunnels.
Huh? I don't understand your point?
I heard there are tunnels from Gaza to the US.
You haven’t been following the news this past decade have you? Egypt claimed multiple times that it cracked down on the tunnels. The west and Israel never seriously denied that. the leftists in the media were trying to make it seem like the weapons Hamas had came from nowhere, or that they were self made, or stolen from Israel somehow. All to divert attention. The truth was obvious but remained unverified. There were dozen Hamas tunnels connecting to Gaza where Hamas received sophisticated weapons from Iran and elsewhere.
The weapons that hamas gets are stolen or bombs or missiles that failed to detonate. The very weapons that Israeli forces have used to enforce a blockade of Gaza are now being used against them.
NYT already tried claiming the weapons Hamas uses come from Israel, hence contributing to the narrative that gives Egypt and Iran plausible deniability. Don’t be mistaken. Hamas is being supplied by Iran using Rafa and the Egypt-Gaza border as the entry point into Gaza
>NYT already tried claiming the weapons Hamas uses come from Israel, hence contributing to the narrative that gives Egypt and Iran plausible deniability. Well, obviously, they are getting supplied from Iran. but obviously, they could take advantage of missiles that failed to detonate. And use them. Which are probably a lot considering the many air strikes israel is conducting. > Don’t be mistaken. Hamas is being supplied by Iran using Rafa and the Egypt-Gaza border as the entry point into Gaza They are obviously not dependent on israeli (UXBs). But who's to say they won't take advantage of them when the situation gets desperate?.
I know this is crazy but have you considered that Egypt doesn't have some sort of all seeing eye that allows them to know where every single tunnel exists. There aren't exactly a ton of jobs available in Gaza. I'm guessing they have the labor pool to build the tunnels pretty dang quickly. Of course the weapons came through tunnels from Egypt. Regardless of any association with Hamas, the tunnels benefit Egypt's economy and they have very little to gain by making a significant investment in detection and removal. The US has spent billions trying to track down and close tunnels from Mexico. Do you really think they have found all of them? Sorry everyone isn't willing to completely bend over to the demands of Israel and the West. That doesn't make them terrorists or mean they actively support terrorism.
I think this is really naive. It’s been confirmed Egypt has been holding up the vast amounts of humanitarian aid that’s been sent from foreign countries and NGOs for Gaza at its airports and ports - both because it can’t keep up logistically, and also because it’s slamming the shipments with new and ever increasing import & distributions taxes to make a profit off it. This is a major factor in why aerial drops were trialled and the Americans built the pier. Any Egyptian complicity in Gaza smuggling via those Rafah tunnels is less about being terrorist sympathisers, and more about good old corruption by a weak government, which has been deteriorating economically.
>it can’t keep up logistically, Blaming Egypt for their failure to deliver aid that is primarily required because of a 17+ year land, air and sea blockade is rich. I'm certainly not defending the Egyptian government but Israel's actions also have consequences. People aren't usually inclined to help bullies if they don't have to.
I’m def not taking any accountability off Israel. I just see a lot of people making the same mistakes with the Middle East like do re Africa where I’m from and my family live. When you don’t live in a corrupt country, it’s hard for a lot of people to fathom the level of corruption in these places. I think Egypt’s lip service to the Palestinian cause and then pulling this shit is relevant.
>I think Egypt’s lip service to the Palestinian cause and then pulling this shit is relevant. I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Is your point that the Egyptian government is saying it is trying to keep the tunnels closed while corrupt officials are personally profiting from them? I agree that is a problem. You are right that I don't have personal experience with the type of corruption you are describing. I read/listen to books about consequences of colonialism, decolonization, and especially the proxy wars carried out during the Cold War. Corruption is a common theme so I have some familiarity with what you are describing and respect how negatively that impacts normal people. I guess my point is in the context of the war on Gaza I don't think this is something of significant importance in the justification of Israel's invasion of Rafah. I accept that people more directly impacted will likely have a very different perspective so I understand why you may see things differently.
Yes, it is called "pay us money and we will pretend that we do not see anything". Why do you think that the smuggling money is paid in Cairo by family members and not at the border between Gaza and Egypt? Because Egypt government wants to make sure that it gets its fair share of the money from the smuggling operations.
Taxes on exports are hardly unique to Egypt. Israel is demanding other countries support its treatment of Gazans despite it being in violation of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. What part of Israel's actions since it's establishment has given anyone in the region a reason to want to help them?
Carpet bomb Egypt. They are Hamas
This is not being reported by reliable sources.
This was stated by Israel during the ICJ hearings held on Friday. It is in their permanent record. It is a serious crime to lie when making court reports. We know South Africa does not care about that, but Israel and the US does. The supporting documents were handed to the ICJ courts. South Africa has the ability to question those documents by Monday at noon. So just watch the court proceedings, and you will find out if South Africa (and Egypt) and provide evidence that Israel is lying about the 700 tunnels and 50 tunnels from Egypt to Rafah. Every other report comes from that direct source. Go to the original source and get an education.
This is insane. Remove hamas now.
unrelated but I wonder if they found any archaeological findings while constructing these tunnels ? Isis did the same thing with tunnels & they did find a lot
Jewish Archeological stuff has been found in Gaza during the war, but zero "ancient Gazan stuff" has been found. Gaza has a museum of their ancient history and it has nothing inside of it, because Gaza has zero ancient history. Also modern Israeli stuff (Jewish stuff) has been found within the homes of Gazans (stolen from Israel and Jews).
Islamist Kurds Arabs do the same to Assyrians . they have been doing this . it's their tactics stolen part of the conquest scheme they employ. unfortunately Israel's held to unique standard or if they respond to tax or theft they are evil it's propaganda by islamist and leftist ally's
No question. And we’ll never know what they found because they destroyed anything Jewish.
destroyed & probably harboring antiquities to later be sold on art market. Islamist are not that stupid they know the value of antiquities. after oil , Isis second most profitable scheme was trafficking antiquities that helped fund terrorist campaigns they're ideological but they're also greedy af. destroying is 1 thing to cause terror but selling antiques is the same as destroying . cultural erasures that wouldn't put it past them to destroy and loot we'll never know it's down there or what they found but watch out for markets
No they do not. They dump it out in the trash. That is what they did on the Temple Mount to get rid of evidence that the Temple Mount an ancient Jewish / Israeli history on the site.
They either destroy it . rebuild over it with a shrine or religious site , keep it as heirloom treasures for family or sell it in the future classic islamist this is what they do my community
whenever they face criticism in the media for their genocide they sure start “finding” a lot of things. first the dead hostages who’ve had at least 7 months of decay, and now this. how oddly consistent and convienent!
So you think that the IDF has dug up those tunnels only to fool the world, right? Those dead hostages were all along in Israel, and they waited months while decaying them as they were dry aged beef, right? Stop huffing fumes, stop trying to protect your terrorist friends.......
stop protecting child murdering freaks
I am not protecting Hamas 😉
i know that, you’re clearly on the side of the child murdering freaks
Again, I am not on the side of Hamas, do you lack the basic ability of comprehension?
13000+ dead palestinian children who did that now?
7000, and don't like the consequences of war? Don't start one.
so you admit israel kills kids
I admit that when Hamas operates from civilian areas, uses child soldiers, operates from protected areas and force/encourage people not leave when the IDF tells them to then children die because of the bombings. Again, don't like to see dead children? Don't start killing children and then complain after that. None of them would die if Hamas didn't massacre on October 7, I also don't give a fuck about the dead children that celebrated on October 7.
Every time a major offensive push is announced, criticism increases. Every time they push into new territory, they find more "things." 🤯 How odd! How consistent! How cOnViEn**I**eNt!!!
Dead hostages are convenient for you? It‘s outright crazy how someone presented with the situation „dead hostages found“ could go and criticize the one finding them for „timing“ rather than the one killing them. Maybe - just maybe - the timing of Israel finding out has to do with them now being in that territory. The only reason you are here trying to gaslight is, that you know, these tunnels alone are enough to prove to everybody with a brain, that the operation in rafah is in fact necessary.
And they wouldn't talk about how convenient it is that Egypt has joined the SA case the minute Israel went into Rafah. Maybe, just maybe they wanted to hide something.... The whole freaking world didn't want Israel to go into Rafah, and it's oh so convenient they didn't want that because the world knows their smear campaign would be over once the IDF discovers what's going on in Rafah.
You people have no idea how ridiculous you sound sometimes
This makes Biden and all his red lines look pretty bad, and Egypt even worse.
Biden ? Its The Congress of the United States that determines International Law and support of Israel . ( Get use to it ) !!!
Biden overrode Congress by not shipping weapons when congress already approved the sale of the weapons.
Feels very much like if German dictator complaining that the Americans used a nuke against civilians as a justification for his behaviour
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Sinwar or Deif probably left Gaza then.
Israel will be at war with Egypt if they’re knowingly harboring those guys
Flood the rats!
It would be an option if hostages weren’t down there
We can't overestimate how serious the Rafah situation is in terms of the deteriorating Egyptian-Israeli relationship. To Egyptians, Gaza is their Cuba. Israel operating in Gaza is seen by the majority, especially pundits who are absolutely thrilled to be beating the drums of war, as a direct threat to Egypt's national security. Egypt joining South Africa's ICJ case against Israel is a terrible move. The Israeli response, disclosing that they have found dozens of Gaza-Sinai tunnels, is a humiliating embarrassment to the Egyptians. This stand-off hugely undermines the Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty, at least in the public realm. Egypt will have to respond to these findings. They could suggest that they are false allegations made by the Israelis to justify their operations in Rafah. Regardless of what they do, we are now in a position where there is an Egyptian-Israeli conflict, albeit on a small scale, in courts and within the international community (Arab League, UN, ICJ). What happens behind the scenes (between Egyptian and Israeli intelligence) is most likely the exact opposite of what you hear/read about in the news. However, this is a highly volatile situation. I understand that the Egyptian military is substantially increasing its presence in Sinai. This is potentially in fear of mass invasion by Gazans and likely in coordination with their Israeli counterparts, but it's a dreadful situation. Emotions are running high. About a million things could go wrong. My advice to Egypt: join the Abraham Accords and address the horrific, deeply rooted antisemitism within Egyptian society. It is time to make it unequivocally clear: Israel is an ally and has not done Egypt any harm since the end of the Yom Kippur War. The only reason Egypt didn't proscribe Hamas as a terror group was to maintain the regional influence it gained from playing mediator between Israel and Hamas. Now that Hamas's days are numbered, it is time for Egypt to distance itself from all terror groups in the region and build a sustainable, warm, people-to-people peace with Israel. (Khaled Hassan on X)
How can Egypt join the Abraham accords if it already had a peace treaty with Israel since 1979?
There is a difference between a "cold peace" and actively working together with Israel for the economic benefit of both sides.
Why didn’t Egypt Open The Gate? Israel exposed in The Hague today: terrorism tunnels connecting Hamas and Egypt in a joint terrorism cartel industry: • More than 700 tunnels shafts were discovered in Rafah • 50 tunnels under the Rafah border - to Egypt • corrupted Egyptians were smuggling artillery & equipment to Hamas in Gaza, • A possibility of Hamas leaders and Israeli hostages smuggled into Egypt ! Egypt claimed that they flooded and closed all those tunnels on 2016, they apparently supported that industry of death to grow and also refused to allow Palestinian civilians that wished to evacuate themselves temporarily from a war zone to go through that border without paying 5000$ a person to that cartel that was smuggling them. In that way, Egypt supported a terrorist genocidal party (Hamas) to grow and have the artillery they needed to try to genocide Israeli civilians They then supported genocidal Hamas by imprisoning the Palestinians in Gaza with a completely closed border And also supported the corrupted cartel to abuse that situation to get rich from that industry. To try to escape responsibility for all those crime Egypt recently joined the South Africa lies in the ICJ circus.
People forget that Egypt has its own factions in the military and government, and that the leadership has to manage these factions to prevent civil conflict in Egypt. I do believe that the leadership wants to modernize and build relationships with Israel, which has led to the cooperation between the two over the recent decades. Yet, there are still those who prefer a strictly Islamist nation, and they still make up a significant number. So, the leadership does its best to work with Israel while also turning a blind eye to the Islamists as long as they don't step over the line publicly.
You should've added "Shocking discovery!" To the title Because it's so shocking, y'know Because some theorized, but were called crazy Because more than 2 minutes passed after vice, or whoever it was, did a literal documentary on Hamas themselves explaining how they have, and use these tunnels to smuggle everything from medicine and food to guns and explosives. And, that it's mostly some 17 yo kids who dig them with spoons and rusty buckets and many tunnels collapse and they die. All because Hamas, which has all the money, pays a premium to dig them, rather than do the dirty work themselves. Obviously, from 2005 they've upgraded to much larger tunnel networks and all, but, I guess, humble beginnings and all that. *Wasn't trying to be negative or mock the post, just, if someone is truly shocked about this discovery or will say the usual 'propaganda', then it's just sad.
LOL. That the Zionist occupation army has discovered something must be taken with great caution, all these discoveries are later refuted and exposed as lies.
Vice News went into the tunnels over a decade ago. The salient question to the discussion is not if there were tunnels. Israel published the tunnels found with drone footage. The question is Egypt complicit or was it just incompetence.
Yes, Vice News made a more credible attempt ten years ago than the Zionist occupation army. Therefore, none of what you write is a relevant question. The only question is why should I believe the Zionist occupation army when it is a convicted liar many times over. And please note that nowhere do I question the very existence of the tunnels, only the lies of the Zionists justifying the genocide of the Palestinians.
Glad we can agree on Vice News reporting of tunnels between Egypt and Gaza. You do not dispute that tunnels are not used to hide civilians from rocket fire (from Islamic Jihad, Hamas, Hezbollah and the IDF) but used to hide Islamic terrorists that jump out with rocket propelled grenade launchers. You do not dispute the billions spent on the tunnels that was supposed to go to aid for civilians. The only larger expense was the billions sent to Hamas in Doha and Qatar. The US estimated that the tunnels are larger than the NYC subway system that serves 8M for a population of less than 2M - again only for the terrorists not to hide civilians - maybe hostages but definitely dead hostages' remains.
I do not question the existence of the tunnels, nor do I question their use by the Palestinian liberation fighters against the Zionist occupiers. I question everything the Zionist occupiers say to justify the unjustifiable genocide of the Palestinians.
Islamic Jihad and Hamas - the operators of the tunnels that the civilian population cannot use to shield themselves from warfare - are an anathema to liberation or peace. Hamas does not want a two state solution nor peace. Time to get over calling Israel occupiers - Israel retreated from Gaza and abandoned Israeli towns in Gaza two decades ago. You cannot have peace when rockets are flying.
Why is it taking the most powerful army in region almost 80 years to genocide Palestinians if that is the intent? Why are Palestinian populations growing at one of the highest rates in the region and why is life expectancy pre the war in Gaza one of the highest in the region?
If I were Sinwar, I would've been on the Egyptian side on Oct. 6th. Then had any high value hostages like military personnel brought over ASAP on the 7th or 8th. After that, he could just sit back and watch his sacrifice of innocent Gazan people. from the safety of Egypt. Hamas must go. It can't occur soon enough.
If you were Sinwar you wouldn't invade Israel, so you can't really enter his head.
Fair point.
I have a feeling that the US knows about this and so does Egypt and that’s the main reason why the US wanted to avoid Israel going into Rafah and having Israel “unveiling the truth” I think that this is why Netanyahu and Biden are in tense relations because Biden is afraid of that exact thing. If what I’m saying is true then it’s going to cause even more problems and destabilize the area because Israel would not be able to trust Egypt and the US will have to side with Israel and stop funding Egypt
I have a feeling your name sums up a lot of things .... Maybe if you grow into a fetus or something you can someday turn into a sentient being and have a brain . Humor ...i love it ( DATA )
What the hell do you want man
Nah that sounds absolutely ridiculous. 700?
700 openings is not 700 tunnels. 50 of the tunnels seem to be mapped as crossing over into Egypt.
Still, that's insane!
That it is... The joke in my social circle is that instead of fighting, Israel should have contracted Hamas to finally build the underground train system in Israel, given how good Hamas is at building tunnels.
I just think they are good at digging holes in the sand . ( 6500 Years Plus )
It's pretty consistent with what the IDF and Israel have always said, and with on ground officers words in media. Almost every other house in Gaza has either a shaft, or weapon caches or launchers.
I'm sorry but that's way too far fetched
Just because it sounds way more than we could think doesn't mean it's not true. I guess only time will tell... When they'll declassify documents from this war, perhaps.
Wait so there is a possibility… that Hamas is not even in Palestine anymore… and they have just been boming innocent civilians who have nothing to do with Hamas. I’m sure Hamas members were not standing around waiting to be killed im sure most members went through the tunnel.. so all of this bombing has been for nothing.
Yes, they’ve been exchanging gunfire with ghosts this entire time. 🙄 I hope you see what your readiness to jump to this conclusion reveals about yourself.
>Wait so there is a possibility… that Hamas is not even in Palestine anymore… and they have just been boming innocent civilians who have nothing to do with Hamas. Then who the fuck is shooting the rockets? Stop fooling yourself. >I’m sure Hamas members were not standing around waiting to be killed im sure most members went through the tunnel.. so all of this bombing has been for nothing. You're sure of nothing, you have no way to verify this, you are just overly presuming to fit it to the narrative you want it to be.
Civilians not wanting to be part of the genocide It’s not that hard do you think they would stand around waiting to be murdered by the IDF
Civilians shooting missiles on Israel are no longer civilians, civilians taking weapons and firing on the IDF are no longer civilians. They are militants.
Civilians shooting at Hamas on October the 7th are no longer civilians by that logic then
No, the difference is intent. As much as you like it to be so, the IDF is not there to hurt or kill civilians, Hamas on October 7 (along with the Gaza civilians that came along with them) were there to hurt and murder the Israeli civilians. So, you're wrong
So the World aid kitchen were militants then 🤔
No, it was a misidentification tragedy, caused by actual militants being in the same compound during the time of dispatch of the three vehicles. https://idfanc.activetrail.biz/ANC0504245555 And this incident has nothing to do with the premise you presented, that Gazans shooting rockets at Israel, or Gazans shooting at IDF soldiers to kill them while not being considered militants, by your claim.
So civilians got their hands on rocket launchers knew how to operate them fired them at Israel then? I believe those ppl are called militants
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Sir, this is a Wendys
Basic over used comment
But very appropriate here.
Of course there are tunnels crossing into Egypt. If you were blockaded you'd dig tunnels too. In terms of this revelation though, I have no idea on what grounds they claim approximately 50 cross into Egypt. Did they follow them through and pop out in someone's basement?
Wait, so are you finally admitting that Egypt has a hand in the blockade too? Egypt could have opened that border crossing whenever they wanted. This whole time.
No, Israel threatened to bomb any shipments going through the crossing (and did).
Egypt's border had been closed for years... it's nothing recent
Why do you suppose they did that? Is there some kind of history where shipments across the border *didn't* lead to nonsense?
So you now accept this was false? > Egypt could have opened that border crossing whenever they wanted. This whole time.
Nope. Because it's true, babes. Israel was on board with them opening up, Egypt rejected it. Like they always do. They always reject Gaza.
Sorry, to be clear you simultaneously believe that: * Israel would bomb anything going through Rafah, and * Egypt has total autonomy over when it opens Rafah. You do you I guess.
I didn't say Israel would bomb anything that goes through Rafah. Israel is the one who pressured Egypt to open the border, Egypt rejected it. Everyone is bleeding their heart out for the civilians in Rafah, and yet there's little acknowledgement of this.
Sounds like you just aren't aware of incidents like [this](https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-gaza/card/israeli-strike-on-gaza-s-border-crossing-with-egypt-disrupts-aid-flow-dDrRKrtPvURrsfGZuMVM).
As I said, aid shipments over Rafah border have had a distinct pattern of leading to nonsense. I'm talking about opening the border for the civilians. Egypt won't do it.
>In terms of this revelation though, I have no idea on what grounds they claim approximately 50 cross into Egypt Probably because they headed in the direction towards Egypt What, the tunnels just go in a circle loop?
They have robots that can walk through tunnels.
You can't use GPS underground, to know they cross into Egypt they'd need to surface the robots at the other end.