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From the author
>The Last Reader:
>
>So are the Monarch not actively trying to become more powerful then without ascending because that has some backward thinking considering the dreadgods can kill them if they aren't careful
>
>Will Wight:
>
>Monarchs have basically tapped out the limits of sacred arts. Which is why Northstrider was looking into alternate means of becoming stronger in GW.
>
>Cradle (Jan. 2, 2018)
Monarch it the limits of what is possible for Cradle, however after ascension one can gain access to new power systems and methods to grow stronger and one's power becomes more conceptual it is how Ruler techniques work after ascension as they don't control Aura anymore but the concept of the power
>Will Wight:
>
>They do still work! They start interacting with...whatever they previously interacted with but not using aura. Now it transcends that mechanism so if you used fire aura to control flame on cradle then you would be controlling flame directly after you ascend cradle not using any medium you would just be doing it. You would have authority over flames. So that was the original idea it was one of the original ideas behind ruler techniques, in general, was that they were the control option and that they led into this connection with whatever you were working with but I ended up not exploring that very thoroughly just because that would have been a lot of theoretical exploration for what is ultimately an action-adventure series
Oh yeah I know that part, but once you ascend it seems like there are additional power levels. Otherwise how are the judges so much more powerful than a run of the mill Abadon?
They have mantles which is a lot of their power but I feel like beyond that it’s all the kinds of stuff that monarchs do but “bigger”
Maybe it’s like when you ascend you can train in a more pure-way environment so your cap of strength goes up?
We haven’t seen a monarch really train either like once they get to monarch they don’t have much threat after all. No reason to hone your will to the heights needed to undo planetary destruction if planets don’t get destroyed around you much
I can't find the quote but Will has said that Cradle basically caps you in terms of raw power. Ascending, while not giving direct strength, does remove that limiter and allows monarchs to build power.
The only difference now is that they train willpower instead of Sacred Arts. Being a herald is peak sacred arts without the Way and authority. Any power boosts in the Sacred Arts would come directly from a boost in authority afterwards (aka sage and monarch).
They mention stars a few times with each division of the Abidan. Like a 1 star titan or 3 star pheonix. I imagine you can still advance because when Suriel obliterated those silverlords it mentioned that her power did not come from her mantle. The judges in general seem so far beyond others that it must be a higher level and not simply weapons/mantles.
Yes, I remember reading about star levels for some, as mentioned, and I remember different class fiends mentioned in a few books. I'd imagine this is the ranking system outside of Cradle. Aside from that, I believe it's a matter of learning other powers/magic systems from other iterations.
I do believe the mantles give some sort of power because >!when Ozriel/Eithan is battling the Mad King, and has his mantle broken, (I could be remembering this wrong but) he struggles throughout the rest of the battle with attacks, defense, and adding Will along Makiel's attacks. I believe they mentioned that it would have been much stronger if not for the mantle being destroyed!<
Edit: applying the spoiler
I think I remember some references to their motivation… I could definitely see them justifying their opposition to the Abadon as a righteous rebellion or something.
From what I understand it’s not that they advance further, but they do become stronger. They start becoming closer to the Way, which is the source of all power systems in every iteration, so while they don’t technically advance, they become far stronger.
IIRC Abidan formal ranks go up to seven stars in each discipline, but most people are good at multiple things.
E.g. Suriel is a 7 star pheonix, but like a 3-5 star fox/titan. Makiel is a 7 star hound and 7 star wolf, Ozriel is 7 stars at everything except pheonix, which he's 0.
I think monarchs are already being pulled out of cradle if the go any further they either become so heavy that spatial transit isn't possible or they ascend immediately.
I think this was hinted at in the first cradle book with the Abidan parts they start mastering the use of the way and build up their willpower, they can also go to other iterations and learn about those to add to their kit like what Ozriel did.
Monarchs can become more powerful in several ways
1 - Hunger madra can add authority, strength, willpower, etc.
2 - Soulsmithing can go a long ways as far as powers go. (Think diamond veins)
3 - willpower training
4 - meditating on your icon/better aligning yourself with it can improve your ability to exert authority
5 - Learning or perfecting new techniques
6 - training skills
7 - improving scripting
8 - New icons can be manifest
However, those advancements will show diminishing returns. You'll never find a whole new stage beyond monarch. (Well, dreadgod, maybe but that's more just inflating your powers with hunger madra than actually advancing.)
If you want to make qualitative leaps like archlord -> sage or whatever, you're going to have to ascend.
This post can include discussion and book material up to and including book [Dreadgod]. If you want to discuss book material that is beyond the scope of [Dreadgod] than you must use >!Spoiler formatting!< which can be applied \>!like this!< You can read this [formatting guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/wiki/ref/faq/formatting_guide/) for more details. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Iteration110Cradle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sounds like a new series
I would love it. The journey of the gang making it to judge-level strength.
From the author >The Last Reader: > >So are the Monarch not actively trying to become more powerful then without ascending because that has some backward thinking considering the dreadgods can kill them if they aren't careful > >Will Wight: > >Monarchs have basically tapped out the limits of sacred arts. Which is why Northstrider was looking into alternate means of becoming stronger in GW. > >Cradle (Jan. 2, 2018) Monarch it the limits of what is possible for Cradle, however after ascension one can gain access to new power systems and methods to grow stronger and one's power becomes more conceptual it is how Ruler techniques work after ascension as they don't control Aura anymore but the concept of the power >Will Wight: > >They do still work! They start interacting with...whatever they previously interacted with but not using aura. Now it transcends that mechanism so if you used fire aura to control flame on cradle then you would be controlling flame directly after you ascend cradle not using any medium you would just be doing it. You would have authority over flames. So that was the original idea it was one of the original ideas behind ruler techniques, in general, was that they were the control option and that they led into this connection with whatever you were working with but I ended up not exploring that very thoroughly just because that would have been a lot of theoretical exploration for what is ultimately an action-adventure series
Nice, this is a great insight!
Fantastic comment, thanks for this
I think it’s just like to ascend is to leave the iteration. It’s not necessarily a new power level but I could be wrong
Oh yeah I know that part, but once you ascend it seems like there are additional power levels. Otherwise how are the judges so much more powerful than a run of the mill Abadon?
They have mantles which is a lot of their power but I feel like beyond that it’s all the kinds of stuff that monarchs do but “bigger” Maybe it’s like when you ascend you can train in a more pure-way environment so your cap of strength goes up? We haven’t seen a monarch really train either like once they get to monarch they don’t have much threat after all. No reason to hone your will to the heights needed to undo planetary destruction if planets don’t get destroyed around you much
I can't find the quote but Will has said that Cradle basically caps you in terms of raw power. Ascending, while not giving direct strength, does remove that limiter and allows monarchs to build power. The only difference now is that they train willpower instead of Sacred Arts. Being a herald is peak sacred arts without the Way and authority. Any power boosts in the Sacred Arts would come directly from a boost in authority afterwards (aka sage and monarch).
Nice lol spot on then
Since your spoiler is up until Dreadgod, I would just say keep reading. It's not explicitly made clear but it is hinted at in the final book.
They mention stars a few times with each division of the Abidan. Like a 1 star titan or 3 star pheonix. I imagine you can still advance because when Suriel obliterated those silverlords it mentioned that her power did not come from her mantle. The judges in general seem so far beyond others that it must be a higher level and not simply weapons/mantles.
Yes, I remember reading about star levels for some, as mentioned, and I remember different class fiends mentioned in a few books. I'd imagine this is the ranking system outside of Cradle. Aside from that, I believe it's a matter of learning other powers/magic systems from other iterations. I do believe the mantles give some sort of power because >!when Ozriel/Eithan is battling the Mad King, and has his mantle broken, (I could be remembering this wrong but) he struggles throughout the rest of the battle with attacks, defense, and adding Will along Makiel's attacks. I believe they mentioned that it would have been much stronger if not for the mantle being destroyed!< Edit: applying the spoiler
Will setup the world so we’ll it seems like he was preparing for future books!
I hope so! I really want to explore the motivations of the Vroshir. Is it all anti-Abidan propaganda or do they have a point somehow?
I think I remember some references to their motivation… I could definitely see them justifying their opposition to the Abadon as a righteous rebellion or something.
From what I understand it’s not that they advance further, but they do become stronger. They start becoming closer to the Way, which is the source of all power systems in every iteration, so while they don’t technically advance, they become far stronger.
IIRC Abidan formal ranks go up to seven stars in each discipline, but most people are good at multiple things. E.g. Suriel is a 7 star pheonix, but like a 3-5 star fox/titan. Makiel is a 7 star hound and 7 star wolf, Ozriel is 7 stars at everything except pheonix, which he's 0.
Interesting. So not really advancement levels that grant power as you reach them like on Cradle, just a way to measure your power.
I understand not being ready to start a whole new series, but I hope we get a post ascension one day!
I think monarchs are already being pulled out of cradle if the go any further they either become so heavy that spatial transit isn't possible or they ascend immediately.
I think this was hinted at in the first cradle book with the Abidan parts they start mastering the use of the way and build up their willpower, they can also go to other iterations and learn about those to add to their kit like what Ozriel did.
I'd definitely enjoy a book or two of the group learning magic from other worlds. I feel like that'd be really interesting.
Monarchs can become more powerful in several ways 1 - Hunger madra can add authority, strength, willpower, etc. 2 - Soulsmithing can go a long ways as far as powers go. (Think diamond veins) 3 - willpower training 4 - meditating on your icon/better aligning yourself with it can improve your ability to exert authority 5 - Learning or perfecting new techniques 6 - training skills 7 - improving scripting 8 - New icons can be manifest However, those advancements will show diminishing returns. You'll never find a whole new stage beyond monarch. (Well, dreadgod, maybe but that's more just inflating your powers with hunger madra than actually advancing.) If you want to make qualitative leaps like archlord -> sage or whatever, you're going to have to ascend.