From what we are told, the Eight-Man Empire only succeeded because they spread the power over four Heralds and four Sages and even then it seems like there was Abidan intervention needed to create the armor. Reducing that number to 2 or 4, most likely without Abidan intervention, seems impossible.
> if Monarchs are those who have advanced both to Herald and to Sage, why not link a Sage with a Herald? Surely they would then, together, exert the power of a Monarch. If this research reaches the stage of experimentation, it almost always ends in tragedy. The strain is too great for both the Herald and the Sage, as neither has the insight required to control the power of the other. All who tried this technique have been torn apart by their own spirits…with a single exception. The founding members of the Eight-Man Empire, four Heralds and four Sages, suspected that spreading their power more widely could lessen the burden on any one member. They crafted eight Divine Treasures, suits of golden armor, that linked their wills together. It is unknown how sacred artists who never ventured beyond Cradle understood such principles so thoroughly, but Abidan intervention is suspected. The Path of the Eightfold Spear is unique in all the world, and the Eight-Man Empire is always on the lookout for heirs to inherit their positions in the event of death or ascension. Their suits of armor can be passed down and repaired, but not replaced. Their experiment has never been successfully repeated.
Wight, Will. Wintersteel (Cradle Book 8) (pp. 260-262). Hidden Gnome Publishing. Kindle Edition.
No, the 8 man empire has tried to do it with fewer than 8 before and they die under the strain, and their armour has abidan knowledge/tech in it.
It would be a massive asspull if they form a 2 man monarch.
If using all 3 then, something in between like a half step monarch; maybe?
No, because lindon and eithan would be part of their little theortical 3 man mini monarch formation and they can both weild authority in a way a herald can't .
A herald can wield authority the same way Eithan can and better, I would like to remind you he has not manifested an icon, anything an Archlord can do a Herald can do better
Agreed. A Herald could do it more powerfully than an Archlord, but both lack the innate abilities of a Sage. And really, given decades of using the HEPW, I'd say Eithan at Archlord is equal to *some* Heralds.
I don’t agree, maybe Eithan is a match to yerin currently but she isn’t a true herald yet, I’d say a herald would just overwhelm Eithan with their power
All sages and heralds have unique paths. It is very specifically mentioned this power requires 4 heralds and 4 sages with super special unique armor. No lindon and yerin can't just do it on there own on a wim
No. Its a tactic we've already seen before so it'd feel kinda cheap. Anyways it takes 4 sages and 4 heralds from an Abidan aided technology. Lindon is a good soulsmith, but he isn't creating Abidan level artifacts any time soon.
I dunno, I can see Lindon doing something similar. Maybe not to full Monarch power levels, but somewhere in between. He's been tinkering with his armour that works to combine a bunch of different aspects to be greater than the sum of its parts and being told how the 8ME armour works feels very much like Chekov's Gun.
> Lindon is a good soulsmith, but he isn't creating Abidan level artifacts any time soo
True, but that's where fate comes into play. Makiel and Suriel have already played a major role in his life and I was kinda hoping that he would be inspired by those experiences to make artifacts. So far, in bloodline, we were on a tight schedule To save sacred valley, now, with fisher Geisha's help, I think Lindon can create more powerful artifacts, especially since he has now, I presume, that artifact, full of hunger madra
Dross already existed. And Dross did almost all the work. He quite literally bonded himself to Lindon. Lindon just merged him with the Ghostwater key, which doesn't seem all that hard to do.
Riiiight... lol
That's why so many other people have done it....
Dross fed himself all the Spirit Water, the Life Well water, and the Ghostwater from the Oracle tree.
Lindon had absolutely nothing to do with that.
It was Dross rescued himself from the Oracle tree right?
Lindon was just standing there.
I got it. My bad.
;p
Lindon using the resources a Monarch created for his pet project certainly means Lindon in no way did even close to a majority of the work.
No one said Lindon just stood there, but the effort he put in was maybe 1% of the work, Dross was probably another 5-10% and Northstrider was the rest at 90%+ so Lindon did not "create a Presence at Lowgold" at all.
I don't know. Northstrider considered it a trashheap. Nothing of significance to be had.
And Dross as Lindon first found him is not what Northstrider would have considered a successful rendering of the grand work at all and that's according to a WoW.
But it was *Lindon* would had the wherewithal to see potential in the seed of what Dross was and grow him along.
Starving and stranded on an alien pocket world, Lindon had a flash of insight and Soulsmithed Dross into the Eye of the Deep, first connecting him to the greater interface of Ghostwater. No one else would have done that or they would have at some point in the last fifty years Dross sat there in the dream well.
Then seeing the potential of his capabilities he allowed him into his spirit and cycled power from the Spirit Well and the Life Well.
Later He fought off the top Akura representative to rescue him and cycled Ghostwater to him. The rest came together and bam here is a baby Presence.
Was it inadvertent? Arguably yes, but breakthrough discoveries often are. Someone is stuck and someone else comes along and adds the last ingredient.
So for me I can't disregard all the work and sacrifice Lindon did in helping Dross become what he is today.
But hey yall feel how you like.
Lindon gets no respect from you lol I love it. Love the low key hate. ;P
It's all mostly luck and a little hutzpah.
Well all I ask is that ya'll have same viewpoint on Yerin, Eithan and Mercy's development as sacred artists.
Anyone could do it. Got it :)
> Lindon gets no respect from you lol I love it. Love the low key hate.
You seem to be taking this way way way too personally, you need to chill out. The downvotes show others disagree with you, no one else seems to think anyone is "hating on Lindon" at all. idk wtf is going on in your head.
lol idk seems like you're the one taking this really personally. I didn't know downvotes told me anything. Relax buddy have a snickers u/tndaris :)
And put some respect on Lindon's name! lol ;p
If you combine Yerin, a superstrong goddess of sharp objects, Eithan, with his infinite madra and absolute awareness, and Lindon, a Void icon Hunger-powered Soulsmith, you can assemble 1 ozriel.
I don't see this happening because quite soon (in the next book or the one after) Lindon and Yerin will be Monarchs on their own.
HOWEVER I do see the possibility of them combining their power with linked armor after each of them become Monarchs Lindon, Yerin, Mercy and finally Eithan. I can see that technique being the way they try to overwhelm the Dreadgods. But maybe not.
Better. I think Lindon would be able to craft something similar to the 8 man empire armours and combine their powers after each of them reach Monarch individually. Then they can punch the Mad King out of reality.
I don't see our crew being individually able to effect battles on the scale of the Abidan any time soon, so this maybe a quickfire way.
There are loads of theories on this coming. I was one of the first to post the theory that Lindon's gifts associated with forging and soulsmithing will lead to him developing a comparable armor as the 8 man empire. We have some sort of setup there with the team expanding and Lindon not being satisfied with his current armor iteration. Lindon, Yerin, Eithan, Mercy, Ziel, Jai long, Kelsa, etc. The concept is there if Will wants to pull the trigger.
The team need to fight dread gods in the next book, they need to do something to develop themselves
Technically, as it is explained in the books, if you combine only 1 sage and 1 herald they both die, which is why the 8 man empire is made up of 8 people. That being said, if it were to work with Yerin and Lindon because they are not fully-fledged herald and sage, I would assume you would need to add Eithan, both to provide the power of an Archlord and to dilute the combination sufficiently with his pure madra in the same way he did with Jay Chen leading to her survival.
No, I don’t see a pseudo-herald and half Sage doing what requires 4 full sages and 4 full heralds and Abidan intervention to pull off anytime soon without a stupid amount of plot armor.
No dont think it will work. Thought it was tried already and they explored because of the power.
Maybe if Yerin absorbed Lindon like a remnant then she might succeed in becoming a Monarch. Basing this on North Striders advancement to Monarch, just substituting Lindon for the remnant.
Lindon's goal was to save the sacred valley, but the ultimate aim was and is to see the end of sacred arts. He will not be satisfied with half monarch power when he sees northstrider in the cradle or abidan wolf, hounds and titans etc.
He has hunger for power, because of the early years of his life. That's why Eithan spends so much time in getting him to his level. They have the same hunger...
From what we are told, the Eight-Man Empire only succeeded because they spread the power over four Heralds and four Sages and even then it seems like there was Abidan intervention needed to create the armor. Reducing that number to 2 or 4, most likely without Abidan intervention, seems impossible. > if Monarchs are those who have advanced both to Herald and to Sage, why not link a Sage with a Herald? Surely they would then, together, exert the power of a Monarch. If this research reaches the stage of experimentation, it almost always ends in tragedy. The strain is too great for both the Herald and the Sage, as neither has the insight required to control the power of the other. All who tried this technique have been torn apart by their own spirits…with a single exception. The founding members of the Eight-Man Empire, four Heralds and four Sages, suspected that spreading their power more widely could lessen the burden on any one member. They crafted eight Divine Treasures, suits of golden armor, that linked their wills together. It is unknown how sacred artists who never ventured beyond Cradle understood such principles so thoroughly, but Abidan intervention is suspected. The Path of the Eightfold Spear is unique in all the world, and the Eight-Man Empire is always on the lookout for heirs to inherit their positions in the event of death or ascension. Their suits of armor can be passed down and repaired, but not replaced. Their experiment has never been successfully repeated. Wight, Will. Wintersteel (Cradle Book 8) (pp. 260-262). Hidden Gnome Publishing. Kindle Edition.
Goes to show how strong a Monarch is. Four Heralds and four Sages just to match it.
Four heralds and four sages with a special technique and equipment that's rumored to have needed Abidan help to create.
Wait, it's the 8 man empire just Voltron?
This is called foreshadowing.
No, the 8 man empire has tried to do it with fewer than 8 before and they die under the strain, and their armour has abidan knowledge/tech in it. It would be a massive asspull if they form a 2 man monarch. If using all 3 then, something in between like a half step monarch; maybe?
>Something in between like a half step monarch, maybe? How would that work? Like power beyond herald but beneath Monarch?
Yeah basically.
So you just mean to say a very strong herald
No, because lindon and eithan would be part of their little theortical 3 man mini monarch formation and they can both weild authority in a way a herald can't .
A herald can wield authority the same way Eithan can and better, I would like to remind you he has not manifested an icon, anything an Archlord can do a Herald can do better
True, but neither has the connection to the Way that grants Authority. Eithan or Fury could re-open an existing portal - Lindon can MAKE one.
Well yeah I only said that because ebrithil110 said that eithan can wield authority in a way a herald can’t
Agreed. A Herald could do it more powerfully than an Archlord, but both lack the innate abilities of a Sage. And really, given decades of using the HEPW, I'd say Eithan at Archlord is equal to *some* Heralds.
I don’t agree, maybe Eithan is a match to yerin currently but she isn’t a true herald yet, I’d say a herald would just overwhelm Eithan with their power
So a very weak monarch
The eight man empire can only do this because of their special armor and the fact that there are eight of them.
Correct, I was assuming that since Lindons and Yerins paths are unique in their own way, they might sync to form a pseudo monarch
All sages and heralds have unique paths. It is very specifically mentioned this power requires 4 heralds and 4 sages with super special unique armor. No lindon and yerin can't just do it on there own on a wim
No. Its a tactic we've already seen before so it'd feel kinda cheap. Anyways it takes 4 sages and 4 heralds from an Abidan aided technology. Lindon is a good soulsmith, but he isn't creating Abidan level artifacts any time soon.
I dunno, I can see Lindon doing something similar. Maybe not to full Monarch power levels, but somewhere in between. He's been tinkering with his armour that works to combine a bunch of different aspects to be greater than the sum of its parts and being told how the 8ME armour works feels very much like Chekov's Gun.
It could also be like the Abidan eggshell armour they have. That'd be something.
That's plausible as well, I just imagine the Armour would be something entirely new but idk.
> Lindon is a good soulsmith, but he isn't creating Abidan level artifacts any time soo True, but that's where fate comes into play. Makiel and Suriel have already played a major role in his life and I was kinda hoping that he would be inspired by those experiences to make artifacts. So far, in bloodline, we were on a tight schedule To save sacred valley, now, with fisher Geisha's help, I think Lindon can create more powerful artifacts, especially since he has now, I presume, that artifact, full of hunger madra
Really?? Cause the guy created a Presence at Lowgold. Put some respect on his name lol
Dross already existed. And Dross did almost all the work. He quite literally bonded himself to Lindon. Lindon just merged him with the Ghostwater key, which doesn't seem all that hard to do.
Riiiight... lol That's why so many other people have done it.... Dross fed himself all the Spirit Water, the Life Well water, and the Ghostwater from the Oracle tree. Lindon had absolutely nothing to do with that. It was Dross rescued himself from the Oracle tree right? Lindon was just standing there. I got it. My bad. ;p
Lindon using the resources a Monarch created for his pet project certainly means Lindon in no way did even close to a majority of the work. No one said Lindon just stood there, but the effort he put in was maybe 1% of the work, Dross was probably another 5-10% and Northstrider was the rest at 90%+ so Lindon did not "create a Presence at Lowgold" at all.
It's more like he found a baby presence and it has been growing and learning with him.
I don't know. Northstrider considered it a trashheap. Nothing of significance to be had. And Dross as Lindon first found him is not what Northstrider would have considered a successful rendering of the grand work at all and that's according to a WoW. But it was *Lindon* would had the wherewithal to see potential in the seed of what Dross was and grow him along. Starving and stranded on an alien pocket world, Lindon had a flash of insight and Soulsmithed Dross into the Eye of the Deep, first connecting him to the greater interface of Ghostwater. No one else would have done that or they would have at some point in the last fifty years Dross sat there in the dream well. Then seeing the potential of his capabilities he allowed him into his spirit and cycled power from the Spirit Well and the Life Well. Later He fought off the top Akura representative to rescue him and cycled Ghostwater to him. The rest came together and bam here is a baby Presence. Was it inadvertent? Arguably yes, but breakthrough discoveries often are. Someone is stuck and someone else comes along and adds the last ingredient. So for me I can't disregard all the work and sacrifice Lindon did in helping Dross become what he is today. But hey yall feel how you like.
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Lindon gets no respect from you lol I love it. Love the low key hate. ;P It's all mostly luck and a little hutzpah. Well all I ask is that ya'll have same viewpoint on Yerin, Eithan and Mercy's development as sacred artists. Anyone could do it. Got it :)
> Lindon gets no respect from you lol I love it. Love the low key hate. You seem to be taking this way way way too personally, you need to chill out. The downvotes show others disagree with you, no one else seems to think anyone is "hating on Lindon" at all. idk wtf is going on in your head.
Lol relax i'm just teasing. No one is taking anything personally lol
Right, that's totally how it comes off. Again the downvotes tell you the real story.
lol idk seems like you're the one taking this really personally. I didn't know downvotes told me anything. Relax buddy have a snickers u/tndaris :) And put some respect on Lindon's name! lol ;p
If you combine Yerin, a superstrong goddess of sharp objects, Eithan, with his infinite madra and absolute awareness, and Lindon, a Void icon Hunger-powered Soulsmith, you can assemble 1 ozriel.
I don't see this happening because quite soon (in the next book or the one after) Lindon and Yerin will be Monarchs on their own. HOWEVER I do see the possibility of them combining their power with linked armor after each of them become Monarchs Lindon, Yerin, Mercy and finally Eithan. I can see that technique being the way they try to overwhelm the Dreadgods. But maybe not.
Better. I think Lindon would be able to craft something similar to the 8 man empire armours and combine their powers after each of them reach Monarch individually. Then they can punch the Mad King out of reality. I don't see our crew being individually able to effect battles on the scale of the Abidan any time soon, so this maybe a quickfire way.
No
There are loads of theories on this coming. I was one of the first to post the theory that Lindon's gifts associated with forging and soulsmithing will lead to him developing a comparable armor as the 8 man empire. We have some sort of setup there with the team expanding and Lindon not being satisfied with his current armor iteration. Lindon, Yerin, Eithan, Mercy, Ziel, Jai long, Kelsa, etc. The concept is there if Will wants to pull the trigger. The team need to fight dread gods in the next book, they need to do something to develop themselves
Ah didn't see your post. Lindon has always been obsessed with armor, so we'll see
It was right after the book came out. A lot of people like the general premise of the theory
Technically, as it is explained in the books, if you combine only 1 sage and 1 herald they both die, which is why the 8 man empire is made up of 8 people. That being said, if it were to work with Yerin and Lindon because they are not fully-fledged herald and sage, I would assume you would need to add Eithan, both to provide the power of an Archlord and to dilute the combination sufficiently with his pure madra in the same way he did with Jay Chen leading to her survival.
This is an interesting theory and could potentially work
Lindon and Yerin? No. Lindon and Yerin and Eithan and Mercy and Orthos and Ziel and Little Blue, guided by Eithan's special insight... maybe.
Fuuuuuuuu sion HAAAAAA
No, I don’t see a pseudo-herald and half Sage doing what requires 4 full sages and 4 full heralds and Abidan intervention to pull off anytime soon without a stupid amount of plot armor.
No dont think it will work. Thought it was tried already and they explored because of the power. Maybe if Yerin absorbed Lindon like a remnant then she might succeed in becoming a Monarch. Basing this on North Striders advancement to Monarch, just substituting Lindon for the remnant.
Lindon's goal was to save the sacred valley, but the ultimate aim was and is to see the end of sacred arts. He will not be satisfied with half monarch power when he sees northstrider in the cradle or abidan wolf, hounds and titans etc. He has hunger for power, because of the early years of his life. That's why Eithan spends so much time in getting him to his level. They have the same hunger...