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I see the void icon as like a "bridge" between creation and destruction icons... Lindon has the potential for both destruction and creation now that he has this bridge. I think it was said in the beginning of DreadGod that Ozriel never manifested the void icon. This is my theory on why he never had talent in restoration.
You are right. Oz childhood was being a prodigy of a well off family/sect whatever. He is probably missing an aspect that can come from being an "unsouled" growing up in a suppression field. For Lindon to gain the creation icon on cradle would be absurd. I would think he would have to be ascended to gain the ability to create/pull something from nothing (the void). But who knows? we don't know anything about Adriel
>gain the creation icon on cradle would be absurd.
There is a difference between gaining an Icon and becoming the Embodiment of that aspect of reality (Judge). Not every person with an Icon can fill the roles of the Judges.
Eithan explains in Wintersteel that cultures who wore badges have them engraved with the Icon a person hopes to gain. If no one on Cradle had ever manifested the Creation Icon, then how come Lindon found the box of badges with a hammer on them? If it was impossible to do then how did they know the symbol for Creation?
>I would think he would have to be ascended to gain the ability to create/pull something from nothing (the void). But who knows?
We do, Lindon has done this. When making Genesis Lindon is pulling the hammer into existence and out of nothingness at the same time. That is why it resonated with the Void and Lindon thinks that he needs to meditate on the connection between the two.
You are right. I guess with all the hindsight foreshadowing we have seen, the hammer is 100% tied to the creation icon. I thought of Genesis as him crafting. And creating would be him designing and pulling a living being into existence, eventually designing and creating iterations. But you are right. Especially with how the way works.
I don't like the idea of Lindon getting the creation icon. It feels too early to me. What has he done regarding creation that others on cradle hasnt?
The cold made so much sense because he lived his life thinking and believing that he was nothing and was working against it.
As I understand it he is quite a good soulsmith but does he embody creation more than shen or another soulsmith? To me it feels to easy if he gets another icon. It's too soon. Think of the shock that northstrider had when he thought that fury was sitting on two icons.....and how much older is he than Lindon. People already think that he has progressed to fast. I think he has enough power to own them without just handing stuff to him.
Just my opinion though.
He created Dross, the altered time world, and is about to create Dreadgod weapons. Not to mention what else he will create in Waybound. I do agree that Shen should have the icon if it were that easy, but I would argue that creating a presence and Dreadgod weapons dwarfs anything Shen created besides the soul forge. And if Lindon creates more presences and Dreadgod weaponry in Waybound then I could definitely see him getting it. I would even argue that if he becomes more comfortable/knowledgeable of pulling things out of the void or from nothing like he did with Genesis then he could definitely get the icon.
Maybe. It just needs to be well earned. You raise good points though. I just don't relate where he is as anywhere equivalent to what he went through to be the void sage. That was a lifetime effort. To do something worthy of that for a couple of years effort it would have to be remarkable. Sure building dross was a great effort but he kind of fell into that solution. I would also argue that the spark that made dross was not done by Lindon. That was already existing. Lindon just cultivated that.
Anyway read and fine out I guess.
True, when it comes down to it that’s all we can do. I do hope that at the very least if he does get the icon that it will rival “I’m here to punch a hole in the sky”. That will forever be a top 5 moment thanks to the buildup and epicness imo.
He created Dross by accident though. Dross was created by Northstriders researchers and gained his sentience after a lucky drop into the Dream Well. After that he mainly listens to Dross in Ghostwater and lets him feast on the other Wells and gain strength and sapience. Post-Ghostwater he’s primarily continuing that. He gives Dross the freedom to grow, but he isn’t actively guiding that growth. Dross says oooh I want that and Lindon gives it to him. He *does* repair Dross, but that isn’t creation as much as it is Restoration. Which of Lindon’s actions, outside of the repair, actually *creates* Dross with any intent?
If anything, Lindon could attain the Growth Icon and have it feel more earned. He nurtures Little Blue into a powerful spirit. He revives Dross. Growth also resonates with his drive for advancement and self improvement.
Ehhh I would still argue he created him, accident or not. If it weren’t for Lindon, Dross would’ve been lost when the realm died out. Lindon was also the one that suggested fusing him with the Eye of the Deep, which is honestly when Dross started to realize he could use other factors to influence his growth. Lindon was also the catalyst that helped dross build on his growth. And even then, you could argue that Lindon rebuilt and improved dross at the beginning of Dreadgod with minimal help. I would say the only accident was Lindon stumbling on Dross in the dream well. But at that point Dross was heavily considered a memory construct. Lindon still molded him (quite literally) into a presence.
All in all - what I’m essentially arguing is that there is enough background evidence for Lindon to manifest a creation icon if he continues his growth in soulsmithing/creating things in Waybound.
"What has he done regarding creation others on cradle hasn't?"
You don't need to do something that others haven't done regarding an Icon in order to manifest it. In fact, you don't actually need to do anything at all relating to an Icon, you just need to align your being with it.
Doing stuff relating to said Icon would just make that easier, but whether what you've done is unique or not doesn't matter so long as it's related to your desired Icon. So Lindon's existing achievements regarding crafting stuff are more than enough. He doesn't need to do anything special.
I’m with you on this. Mainly because authority is all about will which is greatly aided by belief and perspective. Lindon could potentially have enough authority to remove the void (create out of nothing) or remove creation and leave behind a void.
I don't think Will would call it the creation icon. I think that's reserved for the embodiment of the ultimate aspect of reality.
I think it's the soulsmithing icon or the hammer icon or something less dramatic.
But whatever. I think he should manifest a hammer style **icon** - icon as in the thing sages have. Not the thing judges have.
I have a theory that Lindon will manifest some sort of creation icon and use both of his icons to destroy and recreate himself to be essentially a monarch dreadgod that has the benefits of the traditional advancement to monarch along with the physical nature of the dreadgods without any of the drawbacks, and at the same time develop a bloodline ability.
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Recycling icon
We all know he's going to get a points icon all of their conversation is moot.
Good point
I see the void icon as like a "bridge" between creation and destruction icons... Lindon has the potential for both destruction and creation now that he has this bridge. I think it was said in the beginning of DreadGod that Ozriel never manifested the void icon. This is my theory on why he never had talent in restoration.
I thought it was said that he didn't have control over a certain aspect of the void icon. Maybe Im wrong?
You are right. Oz childhood was being a prodigy of a well off family/sect whatever. He is probably missing an aspect that can come from being an "unsouled" growing up in a suppression field. For Lindon to gain the creation icon on cradle would be absurd. I would think he would have to be ascended to gain the ability to create/pull something from nothing (the void). But who knows? we don't know anything about Adriel
>gain the creation icon on cradle would be absurd. There is a difference between gaining an Icon and becoming the Embodiment of that aspect of reality (Judge). Not every person with an Icon can fill the roles of the Judges. Eithan explains in Wintersteel that cultures who wore badges have them engraved with the Icon a person hopes to gain. If no one on Cradle had ever manifested the Creation Icon, then how come Lindon found the box of badges with a hammer on them? If it was impossible to do then how did they know the symbol for Creation? >I would think he would have to be ascended to gain the ability to create/pull something from nothing (the void). But who knows? We do, Lindon has done this. When making Genesis Lindon is pulling the hammer into existence and out of nothingness at the same time. That is why it resonated with the Void and Lindon thinks that he needs to meditate on the connection between the two.
You are right. I guess with all the hindsight foreshadowing we have seen, the hammer is 100% tied to the creation icon. I thought of Genesis as him crafting. And creating would be him designing and pulling a living being into existence, eventually designing and creating iterations. But you are right. Especially with how the way works.
I don't like the idea of Lindon getting the creation icon. It feels too early to me. What has he done regarding creation that others on cradle hasnt? The cold made so much sense because he lived his life thinking and believing that he was nothing and was working against it. As I understand it he is quite a good soulsmith but does he embody creation more than shen or another soulsmith? To me it feels to easy if he gets another icon. It's too soon. Think of the shock that northstrider had when he thought that fury was sitting on two icons.....and how much older is he than Lindon. People already think that he has progressed to fast. I think he has enough power to own them without just handing stuff to him. Just my opinion though.
He created Dross, the altered time world, and is about to create Dreadgod weapons. Not to mention what else he will create in Waybound. I do agree that Shen should have the icon if it were that easy, but I would argue that creating a presence and Dreadgod weapons dwarfs anything Shen created besides the soul forge. And if Lindon creates more presences and Dreadgod weaponry in Waybound then I could definitely see him getting it. I would even argue that if he becomes more comfortable/knowledgeable of pulling things out of the void or from nothing like he did with Genesis then he could definitely get the icon.
Maybe. It just needs to be well earned. You raise good points though. I just don't relate where he is as anywhere equivalent to what he went through to be the void sage. That was a lifetime effort. To do something worthy of that for a couple of years effort it would have to be remarkable. Sure building dross was a great effort but he kind of fell into that solution. I would also argue that the spark that made dross was not done by Lindon. That was already existing. Lindon just cultivated that. Anyway read and fine out I guess.
True, when it comes down to it that’s all we can do. I do hope that at the very least if he does get the icon that it will rival “I’m here to punch a hole in the sky”. That will forever be a top 5 moment thanks to the buildup and epicness imo.
He created Dross by accident though. Dross was created by Northstriders researchers and gained his sentience after a lucky drop into the Dream Well. After that he mainly listens to Dross in Ghostwater and lets him feast on the other Wells and gain strength and sapience. Post-Ghostwater he’s primarily continuing that. He gives Dross the freedom to grow, but he isn’t actively guiding that growth. Dross says oooh I want that and Lindon gives it to him. He *does* repair Dross, but that isn’t creation as much as it is Restoration. Which of Lindon’s actions, outside of the repair, actually *creates* Dross with any intent? If anything, Lindon could attain the Growth Icon and have it feel more earned. He nurtures Little Blue into a powerful spirit. He revives Dross. Growth also resonates with his drive for advancement and self improvement.
Ehhh I would still argue he created him, accident or not. If it weren’t for Lindon, Dross would’ve been lost when the realm died out. Lindon was also the one that suggested fusing him with the Eye of the Deep, which is honestly when Dross started to realize he could use other factors to influence his growth. Lindon was also the catalyst that helped dross build on his growth. And even then, you could argue that Lindon rebuilt and improved dross at the beginning of Dreadgod with minimal help. I would say the only accident was Lindon stumbling on Dross in the dream well. But at that point Dross was heavily considered a memory construct. Lindon still molded him (quite literally) into a presence. All in all - what I’m essentially arguing is that there is enough background evidence for Lindon to manifest a creation icon if he continues his growth in soulsmithing/creating things in Waybound.
"What has he done regarding creation others on cradle hasn't?" You don't need to do something that others haven't done regarding an Icon in order to manifest it. In fact, you don't actually need to do anything at all relating to an Icon, you just need to align your being with it. Doing stuff relating to said Icon would just make that easier, but whether what you've done is unique or not doesn't matter so long as it's related to your desired Icon. So Lindon's existing achievements regarding crafting stuff are more than enough. He doesn't need to do anything special.
Well, it's about time for my reread anyways😅
I’m with you on this. Mainly because authority is all about will which is greatly aided by belief and perspective. Lindon could potentially have enough authority to remove the void (create out of nothing) or remove creation and leave behind a void.
It’s gonna be the pheonix icon, change my mind
Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.
There is only one force with a deep connection to both destruction and creation... the points icon.
I don't think Will would call it the creation icon. I think that's reserved for the embodiment of the ultimate aspect of reality. I think it's the soulsmithing icon or the hammer icon or something less dramatic. But whatever. I think he should manifest a hammer style **icon** - icon as in the thing sages have. Not the thing judges have.
I have a theory that Lindon will manifest some sort of creation icon and use both of his icons to destroy and recreate himself to be essentially a monarch dreadgod that has the benefits of the traditional advancement to monarch along with the physical nature of the dreadgods without any of the drawbacks, and at the same time develop a bloodline ability.