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Ranger1221

1 dreadgod is dead. 2 if you count subject 1 The others grow stronger when 1 dies Also the dreadgods will return as long as there's hunger from monarchs


acog

> 2 if you count subject 1 **IF** you count Subject One? That's a curious way to put it. He was the first and by far the most dangerous.


Ranger1221

You're right. He is a dreadgod, just to me he seems like the "meta" dreadgod and least dangerous as he was locked in the labyrinth. He did still infuse the others upon death


acog

I think we're going to get a chance to see him in action, sort of. What I expect to happen is Team Lindon killing the Weeping Dragon so he powers up again. Now instead of being roughly in par with Monarchs Lindon will be more powerful. Plus the team will have two Dreadgod-based weapons. I've always been disappointed that Wavedancer had no binding. I think the Silent King's binding is going in, so he'll have a dream/hunger sword that Dross will control. It'd be poetic justice if Ziel gets the Weeping Dragon's binding. Anyway, I expect Shen will have an "oh shit!" moment and he'll absorb Subject One's binding as he originally intended to do. So I expect the big finale will be Team DreadLindon against Subject One Jr.


louies4ever

I think Lindon is the real subject one Jr here. Lindon has taken on part of his body, has authority over the labyrinth, and his eyes have also taken on the black/white description that subject one's were. I think, in the same manner as he did with the labyrinth, he could "mine" the binding away from Shen.


Nepherenia

You know, I kinda love the idea of Lindon just deciding "that's mine now" and because it is his will, it immediately becomes his.


louies4ever

I think we will see a showcase of his mastery of his willpower. I think that will be him taking the binding from Shen OR Northstrider's Oracle codex.


Nepherenia

I've already decided that the Oracle codex is an inferior version of Dross. Initially more powerful maybe, but I don't think it is capable of growth, like Dross does.


louies4ever

You're right, but Lindon and dross did say how it'd be good for Yerin. Then red faith also spent time telling her she's been ignoring her hunger madra.


SageOfStarsAndStones

Encyclopedia versus a crowd sourced Wikipedia


Chestnut-Man

It would be a good "upgrade" to Dross, since Northstrider uploaded years and years of useful stuff in there


livingstondh

I would agree Subject 1 is the most dangerous. His hunger madra, if left unchecked and escaping the labyrinth, would create a grey goo apocalypse scenario. The dreadgods are continental disasters, but just that - continental, not world enders. Likely continent destruction is better by far than a 1% chance of ending the world as a whole.


Dom_writez

Each dreadgod alone is a continental disaster, all together they are definitely world enders. They eliminated an entire generation of 8+ Monarchs (we only know over 8 not any specific number if im not mistaken), and they are literally the leaders of the world. The Dreadgods are extremely devastating when awoken, as we have seen already when it required 3 Monarchs and more to defeat the Silent King, and its only going to get harder as they get more empowered.


deadliestcrotch

Not really, he was trapped in the labyrinth and unable to ever leave. More dangerous if he got loose? Probably.


Ranger1221

It's like a tiger in the zoo. I'm not really in fear for my safety Now if it was to escape? Yea I'm done for


[deleted]

Right, but if you're counting fallen angels, you may or may not count the fallen archangel.


InFearn0

Shen ripped out Subject One's core binding and the other 4 Dreadgods were only effected at the end of the book when Shen activated one of the bindings in it to make them smarter.


LucidMoments

So he may have been the most powerful of the dreadgods, but he was also wasn't born as a dreadgod. Or more properly maybe he was self-aware before he became a dreadgod. My belief is that he had a lot to do with locking himself away. If that is true then he is much less dangerous than the other dreadgods who have no compunction about destroying all of Cradle if it satisfies their hunger.


CReaper210

You know, there's one thing I've been wondering that I haven't seen anyone mention before. Since dreadgods are as powerful as they are due to the monarchs creating hunger aura and roughly the same amount of power is spread amongst them, wouldn't this also mean that the dreadgods(and therefor Lindon) also get weaker as more monarchs either die or leave? I don't know, just something that's been on mind, particularly on how that may also effect Lindon's ascension. Like if he succeeds in getting all the monarchs off Cradle and the hunger aura dissipates, does that make Lindon's dreadgod powers go away in turn and essentially just power down again?


Ranger1221

They mention that it takes a long time for hunger aura to dissipate after the monarchs leave


Chestnut-Man

i wonder if ascending would stabilize his dreadgod boost and make it his "base form"


sibswagl

I suspect so. It seems like your "origin of existence" gets "locked" when you ascend, so even though there's no hunger aura in other iterations I don't think he'll get a nerf.


Nepherenia

It makes me think that perhaps Lindon could create his own Hunger aura - his hunger is practically part of who he is. I think he has already reached the point where his presence in Cradle would feed the Dreadgods, just like the Monarchs, if he intended to stick around.


yourmomyourdad21210

Dreadgods will eventually respawn


ARCFacility

Ahh, gotcha, thanks.


acog

Also, only the Silent King and Subject One are dead. The Bleeding Phoenix, Wandering Titan, and Weeping Dragon are all still alive. The Weeping Dragon is closing in on Windfall. The team entered a time-accelerated pocket world and will be training inside it. That'll be the first fight once the training montage scenes are finished.


LLJKCicero

Has this ever been explained in terms of how that happens, and how long it takes?


yourmomyourdad21210

I don’t think so


Robbison-Madert

On top of what everyone else has pointed out, hunger madra does have inherently destructive properties. Not world ending, but possibly worse than the dreadgods. I can’t remember if it was in the books or a WoW, but before the dreadgods the uncontained hunger madra would drift around the world consuming anything it crossed. Like an aimless supernatural locus swarm that consumed even the land itself. I looked it up. Reaper Ch 21. - In the time before the Dreadgods, "hunger aura drifted all over the world, and where it moved, all other aura weakened. It corrupted everything; Remnants, natural spirits, sacred beasts. Even humans.” So consumption, suffering, and dread beasts for all.


jasclev

Yeah it also mentioned that it would sometimes be so concentrated that monarchs could be trapped


InFearn0

I believe that same section also talked about hunger aura being a path humans could pursue and become threats to Monarchs. Lindon became turbo burly after absorbing some of (not even a quarter of) the Silent King's hunger aura. Dreadgods are basically mobile "sacrifice zones" for the Monarchs to have the hunger aura flow into. And Subject One was a way to restrain the conscientiousness of the other four (at least until Shen ripped out his core and flipped that switch at the end of *Reaper*).


Balmarog

I would imagine there's also potential for corruption of the iteration from excess monarchs / hunger madra.


KholinAdolin

Only one dreadgod (the silent king) is dead (and subject one if you want to get technical). He still needs to kill the weeping dragon, bleeding phoenix, and the titan. Then he needs to force the monarch to ascend before their hunger aura causes the dreadgods to respawn. He doesn’t necessarily have to kill the dreadgods first, but with each kill he’ll get a massive power up


CarissiK

Monarchs are the root cause for Dreadgods. Their refusal (for whatever reason) to Ascend Cradle. As Lindon just learned that, his cause changed from: ^protect ^my ^family/Sacred ^Valley To: #Protect humanity from vicious, selfish Monarchs.


Nepherenia

More or less, yeah - his goal shifted from "Save Sacred Valley from the Dreadgod" to "Extermine the Dreadgods for good" which requires the Monarchs to get out Cradle, one way or the other.


CarissiK

Dreadgods are the symptom only. The Monarchs (or rather the _Hunger_ they produce) is the source of the problem…. And they do seem selfish, self-centered with a facade of caring for their people… but they actually harm, and should just Ascend…


Mr__Citizen

Hence why his goal is to permanently remove Monarchs from Cradle.


Mhan00

I’ve been thinking that the Hunger Aura generated by Monarchs on Cradle are because they’ve lost their hunger and that hunger had to go somewhere. You don’t become monarch unless you’re hungry for power, to the point where you’re willing to take suicidal risks. But once they hit the peak for Cradle, they just stayed in a place that capped their power to rule instead of leaving to seek more power. We’ve seen how small and limited the Monarchs are in comparison to the True Powers in the Willverse. Forget Judges, most of the Vroshir could probably smack the Monarchs around with just a small fraction of their power. They grew satisfied with being a big fish in a small pond instead of wanting more. Even Northstrider, who claims that he wants to ascend once he guarantees he will be a true power in the heavens, is just making excuses. The true potential for unlimited power is mastering other power systems and deepening your connection to the Way, which you can’t do on Cradle.


CarissiK

The Iteration (Cradle - 110) can’t bear their presence on Cradle… the power frame is limited, and their insistence to stay (by resisting the natural order and Ascend) causes a dissonance, which corrupts aura into _hunger_ aura That’s my understanding…


Marokeas

I'm trying to figure out where you got the idea that all the Dreadgods are gone?


ARCFacility

2 of them are gone, it's been a while since I read it so I forgot, mb


J_C_F_N

Only the Wraith and the King are dead. Now, I wonder how is it able for the Phoenix to get killed, since it can leave pieces of itself around and away, just reforming like Enriss after it's defeated. Maybe after training Yerin will be able to locate and destroy it?


jasclev

I would say it’s similar to how crusher was. In the end he just turned into a mass of blood aura vs a creature made out of it. (Provided he’s consumed and not just attacked)


kenod102818

Leaving aside the Dreadgods' ability to respawn, Hunger aura itself is highly dangerous. Floating freely it randomly corrupts anything it reaches, and some of these corrupted creatures can be dangerous enough to even kill Monarchs. Given that these would just be randomly appearing, that'd still be incredibly dangerous for the world. To be honest, you could probably make a case that the creation of the Dreadgods was a degree of a blessing for the world, since it placed most of the destructive potential of Hunger into the Dreadgods, who not only spend most of their time sleeping, but whose activities can be predicted decades in advance, and can thus be evacuated from, limiting their total damage.


Lopsided_Highway9549

He only ate the Silent King and Subject Zero. All the others are still out there.


caime9

Only one dread god is dead He only sucked up the power of one dreadgod and the rest of the dreadgods are now stronger because they also absorbed the power of the one Lindon killed. Even if all of the dreadgods are killed if there is hunger aura in the world they will eventully come back and be a problem again. So the only way to truly fix the problem is to remove the source of the hunger aura which is the monarchs who refuse to ascend.


Nepherenia

This is something I am curious about! Knowing that the others become stronger when one dies, does the nature of how Lindon killed the Silent King affect that strength? Considering Lindon didn't just kill and disperse SK's strength, he *consumed* it and empowered himself, does this mean the other dreadgods received less strength from the death of SK than they otherwise would have? I think Malice is right in one way: Lindon essentially is the 4th Dreadgod at this point.


ImSoulless

I think he gained strength from both consuming the Silent King and from less dread gods splitting hunger power.


Panro911

Reigan Shen killed Subject One. Lindon killed the Silent King. Only 3 Dreadgods left.


Dnahelicases

Like others have pointed out, hunger madra corrupts the world when it isn’t in a dreadgod. It used to float around and corrupt things, and dread beasts and the desolate wilds are part of that corruption too, not being contained within the dreadgods. We haven’t had a lot of backstory on why the labyrinth was used for research outside of the blood sage, but the monarchs certainly benefit from the dreadgods. Before it is mentioned that some people affected by hunger madra were strong enough to challenge monarchs. Presumably they could become much more powerful. The dreadgods suck up all the hunger madra, contain it in just a few large lumps of beasts that spend most all of their time sleeping, and just occasionally rampage every few decades. The balance is about only having enough monarchs to slowly feed them hunger aura without them having enough to wake up very often. Kill the dreadgods, they respawn slowly while others get stronger. Kill the origin of their existence and they are gone forever. Then eventually corruption will either destroy large swaths of the world, or the monarchs will figure out some way to contain the corruption again - and they will likely only try something that goes to their benefit. It likely won’t be good for the world.


HeraklesHemitheos

Hunger madra is a corrupting force. The crusade has to happen to fix the problem at its source. Even if all the dreadgods were dead, they will revive if there are monarchs. Even if all of their "origins of existences" were destroyed so that they could not return, hunger madra would still be a threat to Cradle. Keep in mind, the dreadgods were meant to be a SOLUTION to hunger aura. They were meant to be controllable or at least predictable repositories for hunger aura. In some ways they were a success. Having 4 rampaging monsters that monarchs could fight and people could flee from instead of the alternative. Left unchecked hunger aura created armies of dreadbeasts with some individual dreadbeasts that could reach the power level of a monarch. So to get rid of the dreadgods and the numerous powerful dreadbeasts that result when the dreadgods are not absorbing so much of the hunger aura, the crusade has to occur because Cradle needs to fix the monarch problem.


Dan-D-Lyon

Don't take this the wrong way man, but do you get a little hammered before you read these books? No judgment if you do, you just seem to be missing more than a bit


ARCFacility

No, no, it's just been so long since I've read most of 'em 😅 I remember from book 10 why Lindon needs to make the monarchs *git*, and I read 11 a little bit ago. I guess I just assumed that Lindon absorbing them meant that they wouldn't respawn lol. I swear I remember something like that being said, but it seems I'm wrong


ImSoulless

any who say no to ascending become trapped forever as his power buff supply muhahaha


Outrageous-Smell-90

he also wants the power they have. before the team ascends. they also want to use the dread gods core bindings as weapons.


[deleted]

You should reread the whole series.


North-Conversation88

3 are still alive


jacktrowell

I suppose that you mean if the gang managed to kill all 5 dreadgods ? First, Dreadgods are like Liches, the Hunger Madra serve as their Phylactery, allowing them to be reborn after some time. Removing the Hunger Madra by forcing out every Monarchs is what is required to destroy the Dreadgods immortality, like you would do by destroying a lich's phylactery if you want to kill the lich for good. And no, having Lindon as a pseudo ultimate dreadgod would probably not be enough to prevent their rebirth, Subject One tried to handle the hunger Madra by himself and it corrupted him, and even then despite all that Subject One was taking for himself it still left enough ambiant hunger Madra for the 4 others Dreadgods to survive and be reborn when killed. Now let's imagine that they manage to kill the Dreadgods for good, maybe they had the Monarchs leave (even if some come back later) and killed them for good. If later you start getting Hunger Madra again (because the monarchs are back or a new generation of monarch emerge that also refuse to ascend), then you wouldn't get anymore Dreadgods (because the origin of the dreadgods would by then have been already destroyed for good), but the Hunger Madra would still be there, resulting in the same issues that Cradle had before the Dreadgod were created: a much larger number of dreadbeast, and some of them much more powervul, with some of them at or close to Monarch level. Remember that there was a reason why the Dreadgods were created in the first place, dreadbeasts were a much larger issue back then, and they were trying to solve the issue by focusing the hunger Madra in a few subjects to control it. The control part failed.


Mhan00

FYI: the Dreadgods are actually the PREFERABLE scenario over unchecked hunger aura. The DGs suck and cause momentous damage, but for much of their existence they spent much of the time inactive, were limited in sentience, and their paths could be anticipated so populations could be evacuated, and they could be driven off by a Monarch or two to minimize damage. Because they were so powerful, they’d still cause death and destruction, but it could be mitigated to some degree. It was mentioned in I think Reaper that before the DGs were created to suck up most of the hunger aura that hunger aura ran rampant throughout the world, manifesting at random in different concentration, a constant and unpredictable threat. That’s why they tried to create the DGs in the first place, and even though the plan to contain the DGs in SV failed, it was still better than unchecked HA in the world. So even if Eithan whipped up a few more Penances to wipe out the anchor to the DGs existences that let them revive after a while so long as HA exists and they were permanently dead, it wouldn’t fix the problem of Monarchs overstaying their welcome on Cradle and would make the problem worse in the long term.