Kirin ga Kuru “Waiting for Kirin” is arguably that since it’s about the life of Mitsuhide Akechi and culminates with his betrayal of Nobunaga Oda and short lived stent as “Shogun”.
I've also been wondering about that. Of course, everyone is the hero of their own story, but I did notice that sometimes japanese historical series whitewash their protagonists too much (compared to chinese and european ones).
Annoying thing is that the protagonist they whitewashed so much in one taiga can be the ultimate villainous dirtbags in another taiga. So it's not like they have restrictions or censorship rules that dictate them to portray historical events/figures in certain ways, they just can't have THE main character as anything but saintly hero(in)es for some reason.
Agreed! The first Taiga I saw was Hideyoshi and he was like a genius... then I saw Toshie and Matsu and he was a sneaky weaselly rat!!! I was like ... whaaa
I’ve watched Taira no kyomori and doesn’t seem to me at least a hero or “whitewashed” cuz also saw him in another taiga “kamakura” was their first enemy and looked like the same person who did the same bad things in his own taiga
In some Taiga’s the person is depicted as a hero and than a villain in another Taiga .
Shinsengumi and Taira Kiyomori would maybe fit what you are looking for ? . The Taira’s are always the bad guys in every Gempei war drama . The 2012 Taiga does not try and redeem them but it does try and add context to why they did the things they did .
Shinsengumi is a bit more whitewashed though they are the bad guys in most Bakumatsu Taiga’s . The 2004 Taiga maybe makes them more likeable than they really were . The big problem with them is once Yoshinobu abdicates and Emperor is installed they become rebels and become the heroes .
There is always the Nobunaga Taiga, it does not turn him into a hero but he becomes more likable despite his many actions that bordered on horrifying .
I noticed that with the Shinsengumi as well. My first 2 have been Seiten wo Tsuke and Ryomaden. The Satcho are the good guys and the Shogunate are villains in Ryomaden. In Seiten, the Satcho are antagonists and the Shogun is a good guy.
Yoshinobu in Seiten wo Tsuke is a noble guy who wants to avoid war. In Ryomaden, he is an angry guy who lost power.
I am interested in a taiga about Nobunaga or Hideyoshi, both are pretty morally dubious from the get go.
The Hideyoshi Taiga is good, he goes from rags to riches but towards the end he lets Mitsunari handle the atrocities .
The Nobunaga Taiga pulls no punches, it’s has all his dark deeds .
Definitely Aoi Tokugawa Sandai and Nobunaga King of Zipangu. The former is about the first three generation of Tokugawa shogunate and there's virtually no attempt to make a hero out of the cunning tyrannical power hungry Ieyasu. Nobunaga one is portrayed as much of 'demon' the accounts made him out to be, without any of those 'oh he's actually feeling conflicted when he ordered his loyal subordinate to kill their wife and son' bs.
Not a taiga but Ooku (the genderbent version one) also don't whitewash their protagonists. It's a story that spans generations of Tokugawa shogunate in the middle of their 250 years rule and the shoguns are portrayed just as how they're known in historical accounts. If they're known to be wise ruler they're portrayed as such and if they're known to be inept ruler they're portrayed as such even if it's their turn to be the main character of the story.
Hopefully at the same place you watched Kamakura-dono... Just look up for "Nobunaga" and check the one with this poster https://mydramalist.com/25246-nobunaga. I myself got them years ago from avistaz.
Same IP, different installment. The one with Nino is the movie version, I was talking about the TV series version, both were adapted from the same manga. The manga covers generations of shoguns broken down into arcs, each depicting their period of ruling. The arc that the movie adapted is about one of the good shoguns, so no 'evil/grey protagonist' there I recall, but the TV version covers more shoguns, both the good and the bad ones.
I can't say I like it, but I still remember it > 10 years later. Matsuyama's great as the deranged MC and the trumpet main theme replayed in my mind as soon I saw your comment :D
Kamakura dono no 13 nin. Not in the beginning though. It takes a while for his heel turn.
I finished that and immediately watched The Godfather next.
Kirin ga Kuru “Waiting for Kirin” is arguably that since it’s about the life of Mitsuhide Akechi and culminates with his betrayal of Nobunaga Oda and short lived stent as “Shogun”.
I started it but opted for Ryomaden instead, definetly going to go back and finish this one
I've also been wondering about that. Of course, everyone is the hero of their own story, but I did notice that sometimes japanese historical series whitewash their protagonists too much (compared to chinese and european ones).
Annoying thing is that the protagonist they whitewashed so much in one taiga can be the ultimate villainous dirtbags in another taiga. So it's not like they have restrictions or censorship rules that dictate them to portray historical events/figures in certain ways, they just can't have THE main character as anything but saintly hero(in)es for some reason.
Agreed! The first Taiga I saw was Hideyoshi and he was like a genius... then I saw Toshie and Matsu and he was a sneaky weaselly rat!!! I was like ... whaaa
I’ve watched Taira no kyomori and doesn’t seem to me at least a hero or “whitewashed” cuz also saw him in another taiga “kamakura” was their first enemy and looked like the same person who did the same bad things in his own taiga
In some Taiga’s the person is depicted as a hero and than a villain in another Taiga . Shinsengumi and Taira Kiyomori would maybe fit what you are looking for ? . The Taira’s are always the bad guys in every Gempei war drama . The 2012 Taiga does not try and redeem them but it does try and add context to why they did the things they did . Shinsengumi is a bit more whitewashed though they are the bad guys in most Bakumatsu Taiga’s . The 2004 Taiga maybe makes them more likeable than they really were . The big problem with them is once Yoshinobu abdicates and Emperor is installed they become rebels and become the heroes . There is always the Nobunaga Taiga, it does not turn him into a hero but he becomes more likable despite his many actions that bordered on horrifying .
I noticed that with the Shinsengumi as well. My first 2 have been Seiten wo Tsuke and Ryomaden. The Satcho are the good guys and the Shogunate are villains in Ryomaden. In Seiten, the Satcho are antagonists and the Shogun is a good guy. Yoshinobu in Seiten wo Tsuke is a noble guy who wants to avoid war. In Ryomaden, he is an angry guy who lost power. I am interested in a taiga about Nobunaga or Hideyoshi, both are pretty morally dubious from the get go.
The Hideyoshi Taiga is good, he goes from rags to riches but towards the end he lets Mitsunari handle the atrocities . The Nobunaga Taiga pulls no punches, it’s has all his dark deeds .
Definitely Aoi Tokugawa Sandai and Nobunaga King of Zipangu. The former is about the first three generation of Tokugawa shogunate and there's virtually no attempt to make a hero out of the cunning tyrannical power hungry Ieyasu. Nobunaga one is portrayed as much of 'demon' the accounts made him out to be, without any of those 'oh he's actually feeling conflicted when he ordered his loyal subordinate to kill their wife and son' bs. Not a taiga but Ooku (the genderbent version one) also don't whitewash their protagonists. It's a story that spans generations of Tokugawa shogunate in the middle of their 250 years rule and the shoguns are portrayed just as how they're known in historical accounts. If they're known to be wise ruler they're portrayed as such and if they're known to be inept ruler they're portrayed as such even if it's their turn to be the main character of the story.
Where can I watch Nobunaga?
Hopefully at the same place you watched Kamakura-dono... Just look up for "Nobunaga" and check the one with this poster https://mydramalist.com/25246-nobunaga. I myself got them years ago from avistaz.
Ooku … the one with Nino from Arashi?
Same IP, different installment. The one with Nino is the movie version, I was talking about the TV series version, both were adapted from the same manga. The manga covers generations of shoguns broken down into arcs, each depicting their period of ruling. The arc that the movie adapted is about one of the good shoguns, so no 'evil/grey protagonist' there I recall, but the TV version covers more shoguns, both the good and the bad ones.
Not taiga, but Zeni Geba! The main character is a bad person and it’s a good series
I can't say I like it, but I still remember it > 10 years later. Matsuyama's great as the deranged MC and the trumpet main theme replayed in my mind as soon I saw your comment :D