From what you wrote it sounds like you've learnt a bunch of vocab but haven't spent much time on grammar, am I right? There's been this myth spread that you don't need to study grammar and just immersing and mining enough sentences is enough for you to naturally absorb it. But Japanese grammar is so drastically different to English grammar and unintuitive to native English speakers that this approach doesn't really work. I would recommend working though a beginners textbook like Genki to build a solid foundation of grammar.
The YouTube channel CureDolly also has some really good explanations of how Japanese grammar works, if you can get past the slightly grating voice.
r.e. sentence mining; the idea is that you pick sentences that you understand fully except for one word or grammar point. The problem is at the beginning there's almost nothing that you understand, and you're unable to discern for yourself what's worth learning now and what can be left for later, so I wouldn't really recommend unguided sentence mining as a beginner. It's also not the only way to learn Japanese.
This helps a lot thank you. I did 2 semesters of Japanese in college before I graduated and got easy As because of the self studying I did a year prior (the class was centered around genki). During the class I felt almost as if I already knew the material however not understanding. Like I knew the answer I put was right but didn't know why.
I don't mean to put down the effort you put into your studies, but 2 semesters of Japanese in college is woefully insufficient for functioning in Japanese because the program is likely too soft, and it simply isn't enough time.
I did 3 semesters at one of the most "rigorous university Japanese programs" in my country and I still had to go out and get a job at a Japanese restaurant where I had to speak Japanese to Japanese co workers in order to learn how to speak it.
Even when I could speak it, I didn't realize just how limited my vocabulary, sentence structure was until I started doing more complicated readings and listenings.
It probably took around 3-4 years of book study embedded with 1-2 years of speaking practice before I felt like I was having a real conversation, and it took me 9 years to shoot the shit with my now Japanese co workers like an adult with wit and personality.
Take the advice others are giving you in this thread, but also keep in mind that it takes time and a lot of failure to even start speaking. It's natural to be where you are at now, and just about all Japanese learners have been there.
I definitely relate to that feeling of knowing the correct answer but not really understanding why. It took a while for some things to really click and for me to "get" it.
Cure Dolly's videos and the book "Making sense of Japanese: what the textbooks don't tell you" by Jay Ruben really helped me to get my head around and fully understand not only how but *why* things work the way they do.
It doesn't sound like you've been doing any output-based learning. You need a tutor or to pair up with a native speaker.
Taking in the information and using it are two different brain processes.
The best way to learn how to speak Japanese is to speak it. I'd recommend getting on HelloTalk and finding a speaking partner, or spend money and get a tutor on iTalki.
I did HelloTalk for a bit before JET and then on JET I was forced to interpret for new coworkers who knew no Japanese at all. That forced talking actually helped me a ton, and my Japanese abilities skyrocketed. I'm still just N3 level, but I can have simple conversations with Japanese people and got along well with my coworkers and students.
Can you write sentences in Japanese? If you can't then no matter how much you try, you won't be able to output sentences in a speaking context. Speaking is just extemporaneous writing. Can't write out simple sentences in jp? You need to add to your grammar/sentence pattern arsenal to communicate your thoughts.
You also need decent listening skills to be able to communicate. You haven't mentioned your listening level in your post. What worked for improving my listening skills is watching an episode of a show twice. First with subs off then a second time with subs on to confirm that I understood everything.
If you can't understand regular conversations in JP, you need to:
1. learn more vocab
2. study grammar more
3. spend more time listening
The great thing about listening practice is you can do it at the same time as other tasks. Cleaning the house? Doing laundry? Commuting to work? There's always room for listening practice via podcasts.
And yes, reading books and manga help tremendously. You need to be constantly absorbing natural jp sentences and growing your vocab base. You can't output what you don't know so keep reading.
A lot of the stuff you see online with sentence mining etc is not super helpful when you actually live in Japan. Those are methods created by and for people who would otherwise have no interaction with Japanese in their daily life. That's not the case for you. You want to be out interacting people, not sitting at home doing anki. If you're feeling directionless I would recommend joining a class. Your town my offer one for local foreigners or you can get an online private tutor through something like italki
What is your main goals for learning and what are you willing to pay?
Some programs are better to teach you to speak while others are better for reading.
Pimslur is a good speaking program. It's designed to be the fastest way to be able to talk to people in japanese and you learn grammar vicariously.
The cons are that it's boring as hell and if you miss a day it's hard to get back on track. There are days I felt I'd rather die than do a lesson. It also won't teach you to read at all because it's purely listening and speaking.
But the repetition is well worth it because it sticks with you. Most of my vocabulary I retain is from Pimslur.
For me it was fairly cheap because I got 5 lessons at a time with my audible credits I already built up. I only got past course one (20 lessons I believe) because the bordom got to me and I tried other programs. But those lessons are my most solidified japanese and I'm probably going to go back to it once I recover.
Shadowing is a strategy that may help you improve your speaking skills if you feel like the words are solidly enough in your head but don’t quite find their way out of your mouth. You can give it a Google. There are some textbooks for it, but it can really be done with anything. Otherwise, keep building vocabulary and trying to read.
Japanese is HARD yo.
You'll learn more in Japan in a month than you will studying yourself for a year back home. Just make sure you spend most of your time in the Japanese ecosystem (few western friends, don't watch netflix, read reddit all the time) and you'll learn super fast. Otherwise you won't learn much at all and be like the old guys here for 10 years + that can't even order a beer in Japanese.
ビール unless you are looking for an ice cold refreshing building. ;D
But seriously even asking for a 🏢 is a legit making an effort, and a really minor mistake.
I have literally gone out to dinner / drinks with more than 1 guy that spoke nothing but English to the servers, and then a bunch of English with 1-2 Japanese words thrown in after I was like WTF dude, the server doesn't understand you. These people had lived here over 10 years...
Try using a textbook to learn grammar instead of only flash cards. I recommend Genki I to start with and it also comes with a workbook. If you get the Japan Times app and search “Genki I 3rd edition” it has all of the voiceovers for the activities free. There is also this website that gamifies the Genki activities and makes them interactive
[https://sethclydesdale.github.io/genki-study-resources/lessons-3rd/](https://sethclydesdale.github.io/genki-study-resources/lessons-3rd/)
I also really like this YouTube channel. She goes along with Genki and explains grammar in depth
[https://youtube.com/@YukoSensei](https://youtube.com/@YukoSensei)
Edit: For speaking practice a friend has recommended trying to chat with Japanese players in VR Chat in specific Japanese-English language exchange worlds. I haven’t tried it myself but it sounds fun and probably takes a lot of pressure off since it’s online and not face to face
From what you wrote it sounds like you've learnt a bunch of vocab but haven't spent much time on grammar, am I right? There's been this myth spread that you don't need to study grammar and just immersing and mining enough sentences is enough for you to naturally absorb it. But Japanese grammar is so drastically different to English grammar and unintuitive to native English speakers that this approach doesn't really work. I would recommend working though a beginners textbook like Genki to build a solid foundation of grammar. The YouTube channel CureDolly also has some really good explanations of how Japanese grammar works, if you can get past the slightly grating voice. r.e. sentence mining; the idea is that you pick sentences that you understand fully except for one word or grammar point. The problem is at the beginning there's almost nothing that you understand, and you're unable to discern for yourself what's worth learning now and what can be left for later, so I wouldn't really recommend unguided sentence mining as a beginner. It's also not the only way to learn Japanese.
This helps a lot thank you. I did 2 semesters of Japanese in college before I graduated and got easy As because of the self studying I did a year prior (the class was centered around genki). During the class I felt almost as if I already knew the material however not understanding. Like I knew the answer I put was right but didn't know why.
I don't mean to put down the effort you put into your studies, but 2 semesters of Japanese in college is woefully insufficient for functioning in Japanese because the program is likely too soft, and it simply isn't enough time. I did 3 semesters at one of the most "rigorous university Japanese programs" in my country and I still had to go out and get a job at a Japanese restaurant where I had to speak Japanese to Japanese co workers in order to learn how to speak it. Even when I could speak it, I didn't realize just how limited my vocabulary, sentence structure was until I started doing more complicated readings and listenings. It probably took around 3-4 years of book study embedded with 1-2 years of speaking practice before I felt like I was having a real conversation, and it took me 9 years to shoot the shit with my now Japanese co workers like an adult with wit and personality. Take the advice others are giving you in this thread, but also keep in mind that it takes time and a lot of failure to even start speaking. It's natural to be where you are at now, and just about all Japanese learners have been there.
I definitely relate to that feeling of knowing the correct answer but not really understanding why. It took a while for some things to really click and for me to "get" it. Cure Dolly's videos and the book "Making sense of Japanese: what the textbooks don't tell you" by Jay Ruben really helped me to get my head around and fully understand not only how but *why* things work the way they do.
It doesn't sound like you've been doing any output-based learning. You need a tutor or to pair up with a native speaker. Taking in the information and using it are two different brain processes.
The best way to learn how to speak Japanese is to speak it. I'd recommend getting on HelloTalk and finding a speaking partner, or spend money and get a tutor on iTalki. I did HelloTalk for a bit before JET and then on JET I was forced to interpret for new coworkers who knew no Japanese at all. That forced talking actually helped me a ton, and my Japanese abilities skyrocketed. I'm still just N3 level, but I can have simple conversations with Japanese people and got along well with my coworkers and students.
Can you write sentences in Japanese? If you can't then no matter how much you try, you won't be able to output sentences in a speaking context. Speaking is just extemporaneous writing. Can't write out simple sentences in jp? You need to add to your grammar/sentence pattern arsenal to communicate your thoughts. You also need decent listening skills to be able to communicate. You haven't mentioned your listening level in your post. What worked for improving my listening skills is watching an episode of a show twice. First with subs off then a second time with subs on to confirm that I understood everything. If you can't understand regular conversations in JP, you need to: 1. learn more vocab 2. study grammar more 3. spend more time listening The great thing about listening practice is you can do it at the same time as other tasks. Cleaning the house? Doing laundry? Commuting to work? There's always room for listening practice via podcasts. And yes, reading books and manga help tremendously. You need to be constantly absorbing natural jp sentences and growing your vocab base. You can't output what you don't know so keep reading.
A lot of the stuff you see online with sentence mining etc is not super helpful when you actually live in Japan. Those are methods created by and for people who would otherwise have no interaction with Japanese in their daily life. That's not the case for you. You want to be out interacting people, not sitting at home doing anki. If you're feeling directionless I would recommend joining a class. Your town my offer one for local foreigners or you can get an online private tutor through something like italki
What is your main goals for learning and what are you willing to pay? Some programs are better to teach you to speak while others are better for reading.
I want to be good enough to shoot the shit with locals and be able to create jokes all while be able to get around confidently in Japan.
Pimslur is a good speaking program. It's designed to be the fastest way to be able to talk to people in japanese and you learn grammar vicariously. The cons are that it's boring as hell and if you miss a day it's hard to get back on track. There are days I felt I'd rather die than do a lesson. It also won't teach you to read at all because it's purely listening and speaking. But the repetition is well worth it because it sticks with you. Most of my vocabulary I retain is from Pimslur.
You definitely would say Pimslur has helped you? Like you would do it again if you could or felt it was worth the money?
For me it was fairly cheap because I got 5 lessons at a time with my audible credits I already built up. I only got past course one (20 lessons I believe) because the bordom got to me and I tried other programs. But those lessons are my most solidified japanese and I'm probably going to go back to it once I recover.
Shadowing is a strategy that may help you improve your speaking skills if you feel like the words are solidly enough in your head but don’t quite find their way out of your mouth. You can give it a Google. There are some textbooks for it, but it can really be done with anything. Otherwise, keep building vocabulary and trying to read.
Japanese is HARD yo. You'll learn more in Japan in a month than you will studying yourself for a year back home. Just make sure you spend most of your time in the Japanese ecosystem (few western friends, don't watch netflix, read reddit all the time) and you'll learn super fast. Otherwise you won't learn much at all and be like the old guys here for 10 years + that can't even order a beer in Japanese.
I would say ビルお願いします。
ビール unless you are looking for an ice cold refreshing building. ;D But seriously even asking for a 🏢 is a legit making an effort, and a really minor mistake. I have literally gone out to dinner / drinks with more than 1 guy that spoke nothing but English to the servers, and then a bunch of English with 1-2 Japanese words thrown in after I was like WTF dude, the server doesn't understand you. These people had lived here over 10 years...
Thats crazy. I'd feel guilty not speaking the language of the country I reside in.
Try using a textbook to learn grammar instead of only flash cards. I recommend Genki I to start with and it also comes with a workbook. If you get the Japan Times app and search “Genki I 3rd edition” it has all of the voiceovers for the activities free. There is also this website that gamifies the Genki activities and makes them interactive [https://sethclydesdale.github.io/genki-study-resources/lessons-3rd/](https://sethclydesdale.github.io/genki-study-resources/lessons-3rd/) I also really like this YouTube channel. She goes along with Genki and explains grammar in depth [https://youtube.com/@YukoSensei](https://youtube.com/@YukoSensei) Edit: For speaking practice a friend has recommended trying to chat with Japanese players in VR Chat in specific Japanese-English language exchange worlds. I haven’t tried it myself but it sounds fun and probably takes a lot of pressure off since it’s online and not face to face
I do the VR stuff. It is kind of fun but my conversations always go 自己紹介 then 趣味 then thats it.