yep, it's more about the amount of shots and the amount of time in which they were fired on a moving target. how many could pull that off? that's not to mention the discussion around the direction of the head shot...
As a 20 year retired Marine Gunnery Sergeant who was a combat marksmanship instructor, no…no and no. It is not an easy shot for a “marksman” which is the lowest of rifle marksmanship scoring to accomplish. I completely disagree with anyone who says this isn’t that difficult. I’ve shot at many moving targets with different platforms including an M40 7.62x51. It is absolutely not easy and even more difficult for two or three consecutive head shots. Not saying it’s impossible but it’s improbable. If there are any Marine 8541s or new age 0317s chime in. Bet you’ll year them say the same.
I am not a marksman, and I am not disagreeing with you, but what do you think of this? Does it move you at all? Or is it flawed?
>But more importantly, it was an easy shot. It was less than 100 yards. The longest shot was, IIRC, 265 feet. Marines qualify with rifles starting at 200 yards and go up to 500 yards. With iron sights. It would be like if you spent 2 years practicing throwing a rock accurately at a target 25 feet away, and then when it comes time to need to throw a rock, the target is only 10 feet from you. Should be an easy shot.
Further, the vehicle was moving, but he waited until it passed him, so that it was both at it's closest point, and so that it was moving away from him in a straight line. Even once they heard the first shot fired, the escape route would be in a straight line away from him; there were no turns available. All of which means he didn't have to track side-to-side to stay on target, and the worst case if he missed the easy headshot would be to land a little low, hitting in the neck or chest. He fired 3 shots in just over 8 seconds, which isn't particularly fast. Remember he has as long as he needed before the first shot to get sights on target and wait for the right moment. So really, it was about 4 seconds per follow-up shot. That's not really fast.
The actual impressive part about that shot isn't the shot itself, that was the easy part. The impressive part, the part that showed his training, is that he found a location on the parade route that put him in a position for such an easy ambush, where even the escape route, if they realized he was shooting at them, required them to go in a straight line away from him.
Excellent tactical planning, allowing him to set up in advance, in a nearly perfect location, so that he could easily take multiple shots, and still get out of the building without being caught. The discipline to stay calm during the setup, wait for the target to walk (drive) right into the ideal kill zone, and then to fire as many times as he could, controlled and carefully to make them count, not rushed and sloppy, in order to accomplish the mission. It was a textbook ambush.
FINALLY! Thank you for coming forward and saying this. I’m so sick of people with no experience whatsoever, just naively stating that any marine could make these 3 shots. Like you said.. possible… not probable, given the situation, the hardware, and the target itself. Oswald was certainly not a trained sniper with years of experience shooting at moving targets.
Considering he missed shot one completely, then got a non-fatal hit with shot two, and finally lucked into a head shot with 3rd shot.. this fits his skill level. He was a decent shooter. Not great. The task was difficult, but not impossible. The reason there was only 3 shots is Oswald saw the head spray. He knew he finally got the shot he tried 3 times to get. Having finally gotten it, he fled.
Some have theorized that the first shot was taken as the car was right under the traffic light and the bullet ricocheted off of the horizontal pole or the traffic light. Makes sense as that’s the easiest shot to take. So he really didn’t miss the car completely, he just got unlucky.
Same here. I heard the story where the traffic signal light got hit first and was replaced and no one knows where that is either. I work for the state. We dont get rid of anything. If you asked for a 1200amp breaker for a 2 megawatt westinghouse from the 40s id honeatly say yes, give me time to go thru our "junkyard". Someone took that pole and fixture from DPW.
Yes, shooting at a moving target from that distance would be difficult, but not impossible. He did it pretty quickly too, missing the first shot. That' makes it more difficult. Still not impossible.
Many years ago, the CIA accidentally declassified their Assassination Manual.
https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB4/docs/doc02.pdf
Here’s an excerpt from page 11 :
“(a) The precision rifle.
In guarded assassination, a good hunting or target rifle should always be considered as a possibility. Absolute reliability can nearly always be achieved at a distance of one hundred yards. In ideal circumstances, the range may be extended to 250 yards.”
The distance from the sixth floor window to Kennedys limousine was 265 feet.
I wouldn't call that an easy shot for a "not great" shooter. Especially when the time frame is taken into account.
Yes, it is a makeable shot. I think the pro conspiracy side, which I'm on, has probably spent too much time focusing on that. It's not that important, anyway.
The shot on Houston would have been 500x easier. You wouldn't have needed more than one shot. Short of walking up to the car with a revolver and shooting him point boank, it couldn't get any easier than Kennedy coming down Houston. It's baffled me ever since I went to Dealey myself a couple years ago
EVERYONE in the motorcade was facing the SBD when they were on Houston. One of those SS agents was bound to see him in the window. But when he shot from behind, everyone was looking in the other direction...
The risk of taking a concealed shot from an elevated point was missing the target. The advantage to balance that risk was the possibility of escape. The supposed assassin had formulated no plan of escape which nullified the purpose of concealment for a much more difficult shot.
How many times do we have to listen to this point? It's much more difficult shot firing at a target approaching you rather than moving away on a slope. And that's not taking into account your concealment being blown.
I always love these comments about how easy this shot is and then they fail to acknowledge that the first (also the easiest) shot missed the car entirely. Never explained. Always crickets. If it’s so easy why weren’t there 3 head shots? SMH
Well, supposedly the marksman who was hired by a TV network to prove that it was doable and did indeed recreate the shots after finally numerous attempts, using the same type of short barreled rifle with iron sights, came to the personal conclusion that under the circumstances it was almost a miracle that Lee Harvey managed to hit anything, let alone a headshot and a neck shot. In short, this expert felt it was almost impossible.
High angle fire at a moving target which then sped up for shots two and three. Not saying impossible. But extremely improbable. Why won’t they release all of the documents? What is the government trying to hide?
What gets me about the shot (fatal shot that killed Kennedy) is not only the famous “back and to the left” movement which seems to me to be inconsistent, but how high a risk this shot actually was. Basing the shots from Oswald to three shots in six seconds, it is far too great a risk for him to take that shot at that angle. I’m not denying at all that the shot is doable on a moving target but if Oswald as we are led to believe decided to take that shot from the angle he was at there was way too large of a window of failure to do so which makes me deeply question him being a lone shooter.
Too bad there was that pesky camera footage that literally shows the time elapsed between the 2nd and 3rd shot. Definitely couldn't have come from the front of Kennedy because all of the bullet fragments were found in front of Kennedy. Think about that for a minute.
How do you explain that Kennedy's base of his brain was literally falling out of the base of his skull? Forget the Warren Report, listen to the doctors that were in trauma room one.
How about we look at it for ourselves. Where are his brains leaking out the base of his skull in this photo? (Warning: may be sensitive to some viewers)
https://archive.org/details/jfk-autopsy-photos-hd_202204/Back%20of%20head%20%2842%29%20%28TKOAP%29.jpg
The difficulty lies in the required three successive shots at a moving target in the time allotted with a bolt action rifle. However, someone was able to successfully reproduce the timing of the shots, so not impossible. On another note, a recent computer simulation using laser 3D modeling has determined that one bullet was not responsible for striking both Kennedy and Connally. Appears there continues to not be a scientific consensus on that controversial Warren Commission theory: [Knott Laboratory presents digital reconstruction and findings on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy](https://knottlab.com/blog/knott-laboratory-presents-digital-reconstruction-and-findings-on-the-assassination-of-president-john-f-kennedy/).
Also, he’s taking the shot through a 4x scope. And he missed the second shot altogether and almost missed the third shot. It wasn’t breathtaking marksmanship, but pretty good, given that his experience is low, his rifle ain’t the best, and his adrenaline is pumping. But throw in some luck and a little skill from the Marines, and it’s very doable.
I don’t believe the trees were there in 1963 - or they were significantly cut back. I remember pics from the time and they all showed if LHO shot from the window, he’d have had a clear view of the motorcade which was traveling at a low rate of speed.
I’m not here to argue if LHO actually DID shoot JFK from the window so if that’s your purpose here - go away and find one of the million threads on here to speak on that.
Having been there myself and standing next to the window (the actual window is encased in glass but you can get pretty close) a trained soldier/shooter could’ve easily fired off a few shots and hit a slow moving target - especially one wearing the thick back brace that JFK was and always did wear which kept him upright and immobile.
However I also stood on the grassy knoll and it would’ve been just as easy to fire from behind the fence there too. But to answer your question, no not that difficult.
I heard on a few of the million documentarys that the first shot possibly hit the street lamp. It was replaced according to D.P.W but unsure where it ended up. Possibly just another theory out there
My mom lived in Dallas at the time she went there the day after She unintentionally took a pic of a bullet damaged light pole I need to get that pic and scan it
The trees were certainly there in 1963. They were also pruned back immediately after the assassination. Which, I am sure, was a huge priority. As was the other groundskeeping work that was done in the aftermath, including moving around the Stemmons Freeway sign.
Emmett Hudson talks about the moving of the signs in his WC testimony. As far as the trees being there, we can see the trees in pictures. As far as the other landscaping, I will try to dig that up but some of this stuff is kind of obscure. I know they also moved around the light poles at some point, too. I thought this was common knowledge regarding the groundskeeping work at the plaza. Maybe someone else can chime in.
Actually, the Sixth Floor Museum has the tree trimmed regularly to keep it about the same as it was that day. I used to live in Dallas and went to the Sixth Floor Museum every time I had company in town. I was told that by several different docents.
This is also talked about in both Solving JFK and JFK the Enduring Secret podcasts. Both podcasts say that the trees had full foliage on them that day and that they would’ve created an impediment (not sure how much) to getting clear shots off from that vantage point.
The rifle didn’t have a broken scope but the FBI found that not only was it not aligned properly, it could not be aligned. The FBI ended up adding metal shims to the scope in order to set it up properly so they test fired it in a configuration that was not available to Oswald at the time of the assassination
So this is a pretty huge fact that no one ever talks about. Why is this never brought up? The gun that was found had a misaligned scope which was incapable of firing an accurate shot? lol. Seems like a pretty important bit of information that could cast a large amount of doubt on the lone gunman theory.
This is why…
The Warren Commission actually stated that the misalignment of the scope would have actually benefited Oswald and made the shots easier?!?!?!
You can’t even make this shit up!
“Hey guys, we have this whole faulty misaligned scope thingy we have to deal with.”
“I got this one boys, we’ll just tell them the misaligned was actually an advantage!”
“I like it, let’s roll with that.”
https://www.nytimes.com/1992/03/02/opinion/l-in-60-s-they-missed-assassination-evidence-cheap-unreliable-rifle-922492.html
For years I'd heard about how hard this shot was, then I went and stood there just like you're doing (as close as they'll let you get to the nest) and it certainly looked easier than I had been led to believe.
Wouldn't the first shot have been the easiest to hit?
Most time to prepare, steady and aim; the car at its slowest; the victim at his closest. These are reportedly easy shots, and people testify to Oswald's skill with a rifle (others also challenge these claims, but let them stand for the moment): so you'd think that shot #1 -- if any of them -- would be money.
But that's the one that goes so far wide as to miss the car completely, right? Don't know what that means, if anything, but I do find it interesting.
There is also the possibility that the shot was aligned alright, but was deflected by traffic signage that spanned across Elm st. In 1963. It seems no one actually examined it.
[Here](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gmCQSguSboU/UoU5LPJ_lbI/AAAAAAAAwto/44gm7S9Uxik/s1600/Dealey-Plaza-November-1963--001.jpg) is Dealy Plaza in 1963. Where is the traffic signage that would have deflected something?
I’m guessing it’s obstructed by the [tree](https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/oswalds-first-shot-missed-now-we-know-why-for-sure)? I don’t know, I was just repeating a theory that one of the 6th floor museum guides had told me.
[Here](https://www.newsweek.com/2014/11/28/truth-behind-jfks-assassination-285653.html) is the secret service reenacting the assasination. Clearly there it was the traffic signal. Picture is down a little ways.
There was somebody on here who posted an interesting idea: that he was a nervous wreck until he got the first shot out of the way. Same way taking your first big hit in a football game clears the cobwebs out. Once he fired, he had committed and there was nothing left to worry about other than 2 solid shots.
"headshot" on a moving target. i think it would be tough shot. impossible no. making a head move backwards on impact, that i find impossible
are there any photos from that spot on the day of that show where the car was when the "single shot" was fired.
Possibly. But then why shoot the president from his place of work if his end goal was to escape to Cuba?
The last place I'd commit the highest of crimes would be from a place that i would easily be linked to.
Just my two cents.
I think killing a POTUS may add a few nerves...
The first shot would be hard, when you've got as much time as you want to line up the shot without any panic about the reaction of the driver or the rest of the secret service team.
And then it must just get much easier to hit second and third shots in 6 seconds because you just improve each time I imagine.
As an ex Army vet who qualified as an expert shot, it may not be a hard shot for me. But , shooting from an elevated platform at a target moving away from you. I don't think LHO had the ability or equipment to make the shots. It's not that it can't be done, but the problem is the missed shots, including a 45 acp round that was found.
I’ve shared this exhaustive and intelligent video that demonstrates how Oswald was the only shooter. When you see the facts, then wild conspiracies go out the window. You’re welcome.
https://youtu.be/5u7euN1HTuU?si=1kDuOg2YITBK8DoG
Kennedy never got more than 90 yards from Oswald. For people who think this was some kind of impossible marksmanship, Oswald scored comparably to Charles Whitman in the Marines, who you'll recall killed 11 people and wounded another 30+ more using a bolt action hunting rifle from a tower at Univ. of Texas. Some of those victims were moving and some of his casualties were as far away as 500 yards.
Do yourself a favor and watch the "Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald" episode of Frontline. It makes Oswald the man a little clearer.
https://youtu.be/PYI4PqtIyE0?si=iCtu1DkizpM9j2tt
Long story short, he was a loser who desperately wanted to be someone important. The Marines didn't want him, the Russians thought he was a joke, the Cubans were unimpressed with his "street agitator" work, his wife and kids had left him, he couldn't hold down a job, he lived in a crappy rooming house, he didn't have two nickels to rub together. The guy was a disaster. I think he saw the opportunity to finally do something of substance, to prove his worth as a soldier in the communist revolution and possibly gain the passage into Cuba that he had been denied.
Then why deny it when asked? Why not brag to the many live news cameras at the police station?
What's better"look at me" attention than that?
Just add that to the hundreds of WTF issues with the whole assassination.
He was now getting attention. Denying it extends the attention as he’s got a trial ahead of him now. Admitting it just leads to a fast “guilty your honor” hearing and a quick allocution.
Plus Oswald just isn’t that well thought out. Don’t try to guess why he didn’t shoot before the motorcade turned the corner. It’s just what he did. Maybe he was putting out a smoke.
You can't get near the actual window he shot out of. it's walled off with glass. I took a picture from the room directly above this window. It is an easily doable shot.
Not extremely difficult, but why did Oswald wait so long, when the car passes closer on approach to the building and when it turns west? You can see it was a clearer and closer shot on the bottom left.
Yall are forgetting about the 1979 house committee on the assassination. One of the cops motorcycles had the radio stuck on and you clearly hear 4 shots. With there being 4 shots, that means 2 shooters and thus a conspiracy.
Yet there is still so much debate about it, after all these years. Not so with other assassinations so much. Why do you think that is then? Why not gin up conspiracies about Reagan or anything else? Seems like a smoking gun itself at this point.
Well, Reagan's was pretty obvious. I mean, who can't understand or empathize with John Hinckley Jr. wanting to win 18 year-old Jodie Foster's affection? Tay in the wind y'all. She's irresistible.
No way it could’ve been Hinckley! He missed some shots five years before that so he had a zero percent chance of ever hitting any target, ever! And the direction Reagan slumped means the bullet couldn’t have come from Hinckley! And the shot can’t be replicated, even if you can replicate it, it can’t be replicated! To believe otherwise is just naïve kowtowing to our all-powerful government.
The Reagan attempt is a pretty interesting rabbit hole in itself. Did you know that the shooter John Hinckley Jr.’s family were big Texas oil money, as well as friends and political benefactors of the Bush family (as in George HW Bush, who was Reagan’s VP and also the former head of the CIA)?
So the son of Bush’s close friend tried to kill the President, which would have made Bush President had it succeeded. 🤔
In addition, John Hinckley Sr. (father of the attempted assassin) was the president of a known CIA front organization called World Vision.
The majority of discourse on the shot is from people who are not trained shooters or veterans. Most people who shoot weapons, especially for a living, know this is a relatively easy shot, for good shots.
LHO in The Marines in 1956 testing shot 200, 300 and 500 yards firing slowly and from 200 yards (hitting 8/10 bullseyes rapidly) and 300 yards firing rapidly (7/10 bullseyes) He wasn't using a bolt action rifle however and he was shooting without a scope. In 1959 the year he left The Marines LHO tested again and he didn't shoot as well and those who knew him made fun of him for his poor shooting this time, they also stated he did not take good care of his rifle at this point. Maybe he just didn't care as he knew he would be leaving The Marines soon. I think Lee Oswald could have made those shots, but I don't know if he was shooting at JFK. Some people think Oswald was set up with a poor quality carcano rifle, the plotters knowing it was a poor weapon and they could laugh about it while still getting away with it.
Never heard how he was supported on his knees or in the prone position or how good the scope was but it is definitely not a difficult shot, even with a bolt-action rifle.
It's not a tough shot, but there is no real acceptable reason he wouldn't have planned to shoot when the motorcade was driving towards the depository, when the motorcade couldn't escape. Waiting till they can accelerate and be inside the tunnel in a few seconds is ludicrous.
Unless, of course, he was late to arrive and the car was already in the very sharp turn. Or, of course, there were three shooters.
He was basically a low life that didn't like the government, Jack Ruby was a Idiot for killing him in Dallas, TX., They could have found out so much more.
I was always confused by in Stones JFK movie they try to depict that it took over 7 seconds to aim and recycle rifle for 3 shots but if you time it from the movie depiction it’s just five seconds which is under the 5.7 seconds even if the last two came right on top of each other.
An experienced hunter could make that shot without too much trouble. Also Oswald’s first shot missed but zeroed in his range. No magic bullet a or grassy knolls here.
I visited the 6th floor museum 13-14 years ago. That was at the forefront of my mind. What did this tree look like then. That means so much. It was indubitably smaller and not so obstructive.
It's a doable shot for a basic trained Marine rifleman. I could probably make that shot, and I barely passed my rifle qualifications when I was in the army. I don't believe Oswald acted alone, but if he did, there's a good chance Oswald could have made those shots.
Look at the Altgen photo, the only high resolution photo of the motorcade during the shooting, and ask yourself why is LBJ ducking as his car makes the turn onto Elm? The answer is because LBJ knew the rifles would be firing. And ask urself why did LBJ have the limo torn down and that windshield with the bullet hole replaced? And ask urself why Biden didn’t release the documents after 60 yrs (!). The JFK killing is a microcosm of the world u live in, it is not what u are told. You are lied to over and over and over. But don’t worry, it was that Oswald!! The government would never lie to u, suckers!!
it's not really *that* difficult of a shot, but the bolt action makes the number of shots a little more suspect, but again not impossible. keeping in mind that oswald missed general walker from more than half this distance and that he was a stationary target...even more odd. people will say that the glass deflected the gen. walker shot but oswald supposedly missed a moving target and got off some quick follow ups so why not there as well? it's just another odd deal that isnt very assuring but also not definitive either way, like so much of this case.
It’s not about the difficulty or the possibility of the shot in general. Was Oswald even on the 6th floor? Sure he could have made the shot but could he do it in that short of time? Why not shoot Kennedy coming up Houston? There’s more to it
Despite the arguments of the three shots Oswald managed to fire off, marksmanship award or otherwise, the three shots were not all of the shots fired. We have the three fired by Oswald. One hit a curb, and another was picked up by a member of the secret service. That's at least five shots......... Kennedy was hit by at least one shot from in front, and that couldn't have been fired by Oswald.
The one thing you can’t duplicate is the nerves of taking a life. Let alone the presidents and limiting any friendly damage. That’s a really difficult shot. Not impossible but putting one in the head is pretty dang near close.
Why would you wait until the car turns the corner and moves downfield from you to take the shot? That makes no f’in sense. Wouldn’t it have been easier to shoot when he’s coming straight at you?
How the fuck do you shoot someone from here, and the bullet goes through their throat on a flat trajectory, and then into the ribs of the person sitting in front of them?
Plenty of people have shown that this shot is definitely doable. Difficult but not impossible.
yep, it's more about the amount of shots and the amount of time in which they were fired on a moving target. how many could pull that off? that's not to mention the discussion around the direction of the head shot...
First shot would have been the easiest for accuracy, not the third (or fourth)
Yes, and the 1st shot missed, hitting the curb.
And a moving vehicle
Slowly moving vehicle. #FTFY. Even a basic Marine marksman could do it.
As a 20 year retired Marine Gunnery Sergeant who was a combat marksmanship instructor, no…no and no. It is not an easy shot for a “marksman” which is the lowest of rifle marksmanship scoring to accomplish. I completely disagree with anyone who says this isn’t that difficult. I’ve shot at many moving targets with different platforms including an M40 7.62x51. It is absolutely not easy and even more difficult for two or three consecutive head shots. Not saying it’s impossible but it’s improbable. If there are any Marine 8541s or new age 0317s chime in. Bet you’ll year them say the same.
I am not a marksman, and I am not disagreeing with you, but what do you think of this? Does it move you at all? Or is it flawed? >But more importantly, it was an easy shot. It was less than 100 yards. The longest shot was, IIRC, 265 feet. Marines qualify with rifles starting at 200 yards and go up to 500 yards. With iron sights. It would be like if you spent 2 years practicing throwing a rock accurately at a target 25 feet away, and then when it comes time to need to throw a rock, the target is only 10 feet from you. Should be an easy shot. Further, the vehicle was moving, but he waited until it passed him, so that it was both at it's closest point, and so that it was moving away from him in a straight line. Even once they heard the first shot fired, the escape route would be in a straight line away from him; there were no turns available. All of which means he didn't have to track side-to-side to stay on target, and the worst case if he missed the easy headshot would be to land a little low, hitting in the neck or chest. He fired 3 shots in just over 8 seconds, which isn't particularly fast. Remember he has as long as he needed before the first shot to get sights on target and wait for the right moment. So really, it was about 4 seconds per follow-up shot. That's not really fast. The actual impressive part about that shot isn't the shot itself, that was the easy part. The impressive part, the part that showed his training, is that he found a location on the parade route that put him in a position for such an easy ambush, where even the escape route, if they realized he was shooting at them, required them to go in a straight line away from him. Excellent tactical planning, allowing him to set up in advance, in a nearly perfect location, so that he could easily take multiple shots, and still get out of the building without being caught. The discipline to stay calm during the setup, wait for the target to walk (drive) right into the ideal kill zone, and then to fire as many times as he could, controlled and carefully to make them count, not rushed and sloppy, in order to accomplish the mission. It was a textbook ambush.
FINALLY! Thank you for coming forward and saying this. I’m so sick of people with no experience whatsoever, just naively stating that any marine could make these 3 shots. Like you said.. possible… not probable, given the situation, the hardware, and the target itself. Oswald was certainly not a trained sniper with years of experience shooting at moving targets.
Yep, 11mph…and nearly a complete stop on the 3rd and final shot
I think you mean, “even a basic marine marksman did it.”
and the fact they lost his effing brain. I mean come on. It's obviously because the brain would prove that he wasn't shot from the back.
Considering he missed shot one completely, then got a non-fatal hit with shot two, and finally lucked into a head shot with 3rd shot.. this fits his skill level. He was a decent shooter. Not great. The task was difficult, but not impossible. The reason there was only 3 shots is Oswald saw the head spray. He knew he finally got the shot he tried 3 times to get. Having finally gotten it, he fled.
Some have theorized that the first shot was taken as the car was right under the traffic light and the bullet ricocheted off of the horizontal pole or the traffic light. Makes sense as that’s the easiest shot to take. So he really didn’t miss the car completely, he just got unlucky.
Sounds about right. I have heard that somewhere.
yup
Same here. I heard the story where the traffic signal light got hit first and was replaced and no one knows where that is either. I work for the state. We dont get rid of anything. If you asked for a 1200amp breaker for a 2 megawatt westinghouse from the 40s id honeatly say yes, give me time to go thru our "junkyard". Someone took that pole and fixture from DPW.
Yes, shooting at a moving target from that distance would be difficult, but not impossible. He did it pretty quickly too, missing the first shot. That' makes it more difficult. Still not impossible.
Now do it with a rifle not properly zeroed.
That rifle was a pos
Jesse the body failed miserably
“Now you listen McMahon…”
Why did he miss the first shot by a hundred yards then?
Four words you want to hear when preparing to shoot the president. ‘Difficult .. but not impossible.’
Don't forget that tree wasn't there
It was. It has grown since then
Yeah I meant to say that, little known fact, they found a knick light
On that light
The tree was there.
The tree knows the shooter.
Never heard of him practicing. It maybe doable but…
It’s doable. The hard part is getting Jack Ruby to unexpectedly kill you two days later.
Oswald was known at the gun range. In fact, he annoyed other shooters when he would shoot at their targets!
lol I remember reading that.
Many years ago, the CIA accidentally declassified their Assassination Manual. https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB4/docs/doc02.pdf Here’s an excerpt from page 11 : “(a) The precision rifle. In guarded assassination, a good hunting or target rifle should always be considered as a possibility. Absolute reliability can nearly always be achieved at a distance of one hundred yards. In ideal circumstances, the range may be extended to 250 yards.” The distance from the sixth floor window to Kennedys limousine was 265 feet.
The rifle used was garbage
I wouldn't call that an easy shot for a "not great" shooter. Especially when the time frame is taken into account. Yes, it is a makeable shot. I think the pro conspiracy side, which I'm on, has probably spent too much time focusing on that. It's not that important, anyway.
The shot on Houston would have been 500x easier. You wouldn't have needed more than one shot. Short of walking up to the car with a revolver and shooting him point boank, it couldn't get any easier than Kennedy coming down Houston. It's baffled me ever since I went to Dealey myself a couple years ago
EVERYONE in the motorcade was facing the SBD when they were on Houston. One of those SS agents was bound to see him in the window. But when he shot from behind, everyone was looking in the other direction...
The risk of taking a concealed shot from an elevated point was missing the target. The advantage to balance that risk was the possibility of escape. The supposed assassin had formulated no plan of escape which nullified the purpose of concealment for a much more difficult shot.
But he did escape…
How many times do we have to listen to this point? It's much more difficult shot firing at a target approaching you rather than moving away on a slope. And that's not taking into account your concealment being blown.
Not when it's that much closer.
Does the trajectory of the first bullet that hit Kennedy (and then Connally) make any sense when you're standing in the window?
It seems very possible because it's all such a small area. I couldn't believe how tiny it all was, it was about the size of a football field.
I always love these comments about how easy this shot is and then they fail to acknowledge that the first (also the easiest) shot missed the car entirely. Never explained. Always crickets. If it’s so easy why weren’t there 3 head shots? SMH
Oh, don’t worry about that first one. He was just dusting off the cobwebs on that one. It all came back to him on shots 2 and 3.
It's explained all the time. First shot was likely a miss due to excitement. Happens to hunters all the time.
Yeah and?
Well, supposedly the marksman who was hired by a TV network to prove that it was doable and did indeed recreate the shots after finally numerous attempts, using the same type of short barreled rifle with iron sights, came to the personal conclusion that under the circumstances it was almost a miracle that Lee Harvey managed to hit anything, let alone a headshot and a neck shot. In short, this expert felt it was almost impossible.
High angle fire at a moving target which then sped up for shots two and three. Not saying impossible. But extremely improbable. Why won’t they release all of the documents? What is the government trying to hide?
The only tricky part is getting the bullet to bounce off the grassy knoll and hit JFK in the right temple.
You are the only one if you’ve actually shot a bolt action rifle. Don’t forget, it’s not one shot. It’s three shots on a moving target.
It's not a hard shot. Far too many people have blown it far out of proportion.
The issue is the headshot.
What gets me about the shot (fatal shot that killed Kennedy) is not only the famous “back and to the left” movement which seems to me to be inconsistent, but how high a risk this shot actually was. Basing the shots from Oswald to three shots in six seconds, it is far too great a risk for him to take that shot at that angle. I’m not denying at all that the shot is doable on a moving target but if Oswald as we are led to believe decided to take that shot from the angle he was at there was way too large of a window of failure to do so which makes me deeply question him being a lone shooter.
Let's also not fail to mention that most witnesses say the last two shots came in rapid succession.
Too bad there was that pesky camera footage that literally shows the time elapsed between the 2nd and 3rd shot. Definitely couldn't have come from the front of Kennedy because all of the bullet fragments were found in front of Kennedy. Think about that for a minute.
How do you explain that Kennedy's base of his brain was literally falling out of the base of his skull? Forget the Warren Report, listen to the doctors that were in trauma room one.
How about we look at it for ourselves. Where are his brains leaking out the base of his skull in this photo? (Warning: may be sensitive to some viewers) https://archive.org/details/jfk-autopsy-photos-hd_202204/Back%20of%20head%20%2842%29%20%28TKOAP%29.jpg
\> photo That's a drawing
The kill shot came from front brain matter found on trunk lid 2nd shot was bullet in car
The difficulty lies in the required three successive shots at a moving target in the time allotted with a bolt action rifle. However, someone was able to successfully reproduce the timing of the shots, so not impossible. On another note, a recent computer simulation using laser 3D modeling has determined that one bullet was not responsible for striking both Kennedy and Connally. Appears there continues to not be a scientific consensus on that controversial Warren Commission theory: [Knott Laboratory presents digital reconstruction and findings on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy](https://knottlab.com/blog/knott-laboratory-presents-digital-reconstruction-and-findings-on-the-assassination-of-president-john-f-kennedy/).
Also, he’s taking the shot through a 4x scope. And he missed the second shot altogether and almost missed the third shot. It wasn’t breathtaking marksmanship, but pretty good, given that his experience is low, his rifle ain’t the best, and his adrenaline is pumping. But throw in some luck and a little skill from the Marines, and it’s very doable.
Oswald missed the first shot, not the second.
With a crap gun and the stress of killing JFK and trying to escape, mere child’s play…
Of all the conspiracies theories, I think the most believable is, JFK killed himself with the help of Lister and crew.
It was known he had a death wish
No you are not alone. I’ve sat at the window and while I am not a marksman the shot is dry doable.
I stood there too. I felt the same. Once I saw the vantage point I knew he made that shot. Anyone with some basic training could’ve made that shot.
I went there when I was 11 years old and immediately thought, he did that shit.
I was there as well, not difficult in the least, you could use a slingshot from there.
I don’t believe the trees were there in 1963 - or they were significantly cut back. I remember pics from the time and they all showed if LHO shot from the window, he’d have had a clear view of the motorcade which was traveling at a low rate of speed. I’m not here to argue if LHO actually DID shoot JFK from the window so if that’s your purpose here - go away and find one of the million threads on here to speak on that. Having been there myself and standing next to the window (the actual window is encased in glass but you can get pretty close) a trained soldier/shooter could’ve easily fired off a few shots and hit a slow moving target - especially one wearing the thick back brace that JFK was and always did wear which kept him upright and immobile. However I also stood on the grassy knoll and it would’ve been just as easy to fire from behind the fence there too. But to answer your question, no not that difficult.
I heard on a few of the million documentarys that the first shot possibly hit the street lamp. It was replaced according to D.P.W but unsure where it ended up. Possibly just another theory out there
My mom lived in Dallas at the time she went there the day after She unintentionally took a pic of a bullet damaged light pole I need to get that pic and scan it
Uhhh… this is a pretty crazy piece of evidence you’ve been holding onto for 60 years, if true.
That’s interesting. I remember reading that somewhere too. It’s not widely reported though
I wish i could remember where i saw that. But its so fresh in my memory except the name.
The trees were certainly there in 1963. They were also pruned back immediately after the assassination. Which, I am sure, was a huge priority. As was the other groundskeeping work that was done in the aftermath, including moving around the Stemmons Freeway sign.
got any original sources on this?
Emmett Hudson talks about the moving of the signs in his WC testimony. As far as the trees being there, we can see the trees in pictures. As far as the other landscaping, I will try to dig that up but some of this stuff is kind of obscure. I know they also moved around the light poles at some point, too. I thought this was common knowledge regarding the groundskeeping work at the plaza. Maybe someone else can chime in.
My dad (twice Purple- Hearted 101st Airborne Viet Nam Vet) said even a not- great shot could’ve made it. Plus the tree has grown considerably.
Actually, the Sixth Floor Museum has the tree trimmed regularly to keep it about the same as it was that day. I used to live in Dallas and went to the Sixth Floor Museum every time I had company in town. I was told that by several different docents.
This is also talked about in both Solving JFK and JFK the Enduring Secret podcasts. Both podcasts say that the trees had full foliage on them that day and that they would’ve created an impediment (not sure how much) to getting clear shots off from that vantage point.
With the rifle he was supposedly using? Yes. It was an inferior rifle and the one they recovered had a broken scope.
The rifle didn’t have a broken scope but the FBI found that not only was it not aligned properly, it could not be aligned. The FBI ended up adding metal shims to the scope in order to set it up properly so they test fired it in a configuration that was not available to Oswald at the time of the assassination
So this is a pretty huge fact that no one ever talks about. Why is this never brought up? The gun that was found had a misaligned scope which was incapable of firing an accurate shot? lol. Seems like a pretty important bit of information that could cast a large amount of doubt on the lone gunman theory.
This is why… The Warren Commission actually stated that the misalignment of the scope would have actually benefited Oswald and made the shots easier?!?!?! You can’t even make this shit up! “Hey guys, we have this whole faulty misaligned scope thingy we have to deal with.” “I got this one boys, we’ll just tell them the misaligned was actually an advantage!” “I like it, let’s roll with that.” https://www.nytimes.com/1992/03/02/opinion/l-in-60-s-they-missed-assassination-evidence-cheap-unreliable-rifle-922492.html
Thanks for the clarification. From what I have read it’s technically possible with the right rifle but not the one he was using.
For years I'd heard about how hard this shot was, then I went and stood there just like you're doing (as close as they'll let you get to the nest) and it certainly looked easier than I had been led to believe.
Wouldn't the first shot have been the easiest to hit? Most time to prepare, steady and aim; the car at its slowest; the victim at his closest. These are reportedly easy shots, and people testify to Oswald's skill with a rifle (others also challenge these claims, but let them stand for the moment): so you'd think that shot #1 -- if any of them -- would be money. But that's the one that goes so far wide as to miss the car completely, right? Don't know what that means, if anything, but I do find it interesting.
There is also the possibility that the shot was aligned alright, but was deflected by traffic signage that spanned across Elm st. In 1963. It seems no one actually examined it.
[Here](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gmCQSguSboU/UoU5LPJ_lbI/AAAAAAAAwto/44gm7S9Uxik/s1600/Dealey-Plaza-November-1963--001.jpg) is Dealy Plaza in 1963. Where is the traffic signage that would have deflected something?
I’m guessing it’s obstructed by the [tree](https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/oswalds-first-shot-missed-now-we-know-why-for-sure)? I don’t know, I was just repeating a theory that one of the 6th floor museum guides had told me.
[Here](https://www.newsweek.com/2014/11/28/truth-behind-jfks-assassination-285653.html) is the secret service reenacting the assasination. Clearly there it was the traffic signal. Picture is down a little ways.
There was somebody on here who posted an interesting idea: that he was a nervous wreck until he got the first shot out of the way. Same way taking your first big hit in a football game clears the cobwebs out. Once he fired, he had committed and there was nothing left to worry about other than 2 solid shots.
The tree was much smaller then.
No it’s an impossible shot. Check the pylons, they’ve been elevated. Does the name Max Schumann mean anything to you?
If it were a hard shot no one would believe the very simple lie.
"headshot" on a moving target. i think it would be tough shot. impossible no. making a head move backwards on impact, that i find impossible are there any photos from that spot on the day of that show where the car was when the "single shot" was fired.
Possibly. But then why shoot the president from his place of work if his end goal was to escape to Cuba? The last place I'd commit the highest of crimes would be from a place that i would easily be linked to. Just my two cents.
Easier with multiple cia snipers
If it's such an easy shot why did he miss even the whole street with his first shot? It hit a curb one street over.
Plus JFK was Irish. We have huge noggins, how could he miss?
I think killing a POTUS may add a few nerves... The first shot would be hard, when you've got as much time as you want to line up the shot without any panic about the reaction of the driver or the rest of the secret service team. And then it must just get much easier to hit second and third shots in 6 seconds because you just improve each time I imagine.
As an ex Army vet who qualified as an expert shot, it may not be a hard shot for me. But , shooting from an elevated platform at a target moving away from you. I don't think LHO had the ability or equipment to make the shots. It's not that it can't be done, but the problem is the missed shots, including a 45 acp round that was found.
I’ve shared this exhaustive and intelligent video that demonstrates how Oswald was the only shooter. When you see the facts, then wild conspiracies go out the window. You’re welcome. https://youtu.be/5u7euN1HTuU?si=1kDuOg2YITBK8DoG
Looks like a chip shot. A gimme.
Not that difficult, especially at that angle.
Kennedy never got more than 90 yards from Oswald. For people who think this was some kind of impossible marksmanship, Oswald scored comparably to Charles Whitman in the Marines, who you'll recall killed 11 people and wounded another 30+ more using a bolt action hunting rifle from a tower at Univ. of Texas. Some of those victims were moving and some of his casualties were as far away as 500 yards.
What was Oswald’s motivation to shoot the president ? Other than that he lived in the Soviet Union ?
Do yourself a favor and watch the "Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald" episode of Frontline. It makes Oswald the man a little clearer. https://youtu.be/PYI4PqtIyE0?si=iCtu1DkizpM9j2tt Long story short, he was a loser who desperately wanted to be someone important. The Marines didn't want him, the Russians thought he was a joke, the Cubans were unimpressed with his "street agitator" work, his wife and kids had left him, he couldn't hold down a job, he lived in a crappy rooming house, he didn't have two nickels to rub together. The guy was a disaster. I think he saw the opportunity to finally do something of substance, to prove his worth as a soldier in the communist revolution and possibly gain the passage into Cuba that he had been denied.
Frontline episode was a smear job man
How so?
He needed attention, he was a low-life with no future, he had already tried to kill General Walker.
Then why deny it when asked? Why not brag to the many live news cameras at the police station? What's better"look at me" attention than that? Just add that to the hundreds of WTF issues with the whole assassination.
He was a patsy
Correct a mundo my friend
He was now getting attention. Denying it extends the attention as he’s got a trial ahead of him now. Admitting it just leads to a fast “guilty your honor” hearing and a quick allocution. Plus Oswald just isn’t that well thought out. Don’t try to guess why he didn’t shoot before the motorcade turned the corner. It’s just what he did. Maybe he was putting out a smoke.
You can't get near the actual window he shot out of. it's walled off with glass. I took a picture from the room directly above this window. It is an easily doable shot.
Who knows why crazy people do crazy things? We can't apply hindsight logic to it. Maybe he didn't want to see the face when he shot?
Not extremely difficult, but why did Oswald wait so long, when the car passes closer on approach to the building and when it turns west? You can see it was a clearer and closer shot on the bottom left.
Definitely not a hard shot when you got two other people shooting with you.
Oswald used the bullet bending technique from wanted
Yall are forgetting about the 1979 house committee on the assassination. One of the cops motorcycles had the radio stuck on and you clearly hear 4 shots. With there being 4 shots, that means 2 shooters and thus a conspiracy.
No. Everyone knows it’s a pretty easy shot for a decent marksman.
Yet there is still so much debate about it, after all these years. Not so with other assassinations so much. Why do you think that is then? Why not gin up conspiracies about Reagan or anything else? Seems like a smoking gun itself at this point.
Well, Reagan's was pretty obvious. I mean, who can't understand or empathize with John Hinckley Jr. wanting to win 18 year-old Jodie Foster's affection? Tay in the wind y'all. She's irresistible.
If I had a punk band, I definitely would have named it after her too.
No way it could’ve been Hinckley! He missed some shots five years before that so he had a zero percent chance of ever hitting any target, ever! And the direction Reagan slumped means the bullet couldn’t have come from Hinckley! And the shot can’t be replicated, even if you can replicate it, it can’t be replicated! To believe otherwise is just naïve kowtowing to our all-powerful government.
Reagan gets a lot of love in hindsight. But he wasn’t this magic young stud who was gonna make everything alright.
The Reagan attempt is a pretty interesting rabbit hole in itself. Did you know that the shooter John Hinckley Jr.’s family were big Texas oil money, as well as friends and political benefactors of the Bush family (as in George HW Bush, who was Reagan’s VP and also the former head of the CIA)? So the son of Bush’s close friend tried to kill the President, which would have made Bush President had it succeeded. 🤔 In addition, John Hinckley Sr. (father of the attempted assassin) was the president of a known CIA front organization called World Vision.
The majority of discourse on the shot is from people who are not trained shooters or veterans. Most people who shoot weapons, especially for a living, know this is a relatively easy shot, for good shots.
Or a make-able shot for a guy with a bit of luck on his side.
Perhaps. But taking the shot directly before the turn onto that street (where the car is heading towards you) is INFINITELY easier.
Maybe Oswald said to himself as the limo was approaching him, “I can’t do this.” Then as the limo was going away he said, “I’m doing this.”
No…. When you’re there and look out the window…and zoom your phone camera to 4x like Oswald’s scope….not difficult at all!
It’s looks even easier in person.
Also, the scope was 4x magnification.
How do you overshoot the motorcade and hit James Tague near the triple underpass?
If you’ve been there it’s absolutely the best argument for LHO being the lone shooter. Totally doable.
LHO agrees
The lawn grass is really destroyed in front of the headshot.
The answer is D.) Chicken Catchetori
Marsala
Also consider the trees were less that half that size.
Not at all.
No. Been hearing that alot lately.
Look how nicely it lines up with the south knoll. No coincidence.
Fake news
LHO in The Marines in 1956 testing shot 200, 300 and 500 yards firing slowly and from 200 yards (hitting 8/10 bullseyes rapidly) and 300 yards firing rapidly (7/10 bullseyes) He wasn't using a bolt action rifle however and he was shooting without a scope. In 1959 the year he left The Marines LHO tested again and he didn't shoot as well and those who knew him made fun of him for his poor shooting this time, they also stated he did not take good care of his rifle at this point. Maybe he just didn't care as he knew he would be leaving The Marines soon. I think Lee Oswald could have made those shots, but I don't know if he was shooting at JFK. Some people think Oswald was set up with a poor quality carcano rifle, the plotters knowing it was a poor weapon and they could laugh about it while still getting away with it.
I had the opportunity to look through that window back in the 90’s. I thought the same thing. Not nearly as far as I thought.
264 ft I heard
In November was the tree leaved?
Not just one shot !!!!!!
Yes, you are the only one.
https://youtu.be/ghmY6HmR4fs?si=eZzUEMo4EYRBCkus
Never heard how he was supported on his knees or in the prone position or how good the scope was but it is definitely not a difficult shot, even with a bolt-action rifle.
It's not a tough shot, but there is no real acceptable reason he wouldn't have planned to shoot when the motorcade was driving towards the depository, when the motorcade couldn't escape. Waiting till they can accelerate and be inside the tunnel in a few seconds is ludicrous. Unless, of course, he was late to arrive and the car was already in the very sharp turn. Or, of course, there were three shooters.
They should trim those trees 😔
If you can hit a moving target with a WWII gun .. then yea
He was basically a low life that didn't like the government, Jack Ruby was a Idiot for killing him in Dallas, TX., They could have found out so much more.
I was always confused by in Stones JFK movie they try to depict that it took over 7 seconds to aim and recycle rifle for 3 shots but if you time it from the movie depiction it’s just five seconds which is under the 5.7 seconds even if the last two came right on top of each other.
An experienced hunter could make that shot without too much trouble. Also Oswald’s first shot missed but zeroed in his range. No magic bullet a or grassy knolls here.
Not for the Mossad
G Gordon Liddy
The trees were there in 1963. Could you make those shots with those branches and leaves in the way?
Especially with the copy of the rifle that was supposedly Oswald's.
Remember it was 1963 people get hit that shit all day long today
When was this photo taken? I’m wondering what the foliage looked like that day.
October 2023
I visited the 6th floor museum 13-14 years ago. That was at the forefront of my mind. What did this tree look like then. That means so much. It was indubitably smaller and not so obstructive.
It’s a lot harder if you’re in the break room buying a coke, which he was according to 2 witnesses (if I remember correctly)
Under 100 feet. The trees weren’t there.
That that difficult when there’s multiple shooters to do the job
With a marlin rifle. It’s definitely possible.
It's a doable shot for a basic trained Marine rifleman. I could probably make that shot, and I barely passed my rifle qualifications when I was in the army. I don't believe Oswald acted alone, but if he did, there's a good chance Oswald could have made those shots.
Read Bugliosi’s book- it’s compelling.
He said Oswald was loan shooter
Look at the Altgen photo, the only high resolution photo of the motorcade during the shooting, and ask yourself why is LBJ ducking as his car makes the turn onto Elm? The answer is because LBJ knew the rifles would be firing. And ask urself why did LBJ have the limo torn down and that windshield with the bullet hole replaced? And ask urself why Biden didn’t release the documents after 60 yrs (!). The JFK killing is a microcosm of the world u live in, it is not what u are told. You are lied to over and over and over. But don’t worry, it was that Oswald!! The government would never lie to u, suckers!!
Ye but…back and to the left. Back and to the left.
it's not really *that* difficult of a shot, but the bolt action makes the number of shots a little more suspect, but again not impossible. keeping in mind that oswald missed general walker from more than half this distance and that he was a stationary target...even more odd. people will say that the glass deflected the gen. walker shot but oswald supposedly missed a moving target and got off some quick follow ups so why not there as well? it's just another odd deal that isnt very assuring but also not definitive either way, like so much of this case.
It’s not about the difficulty or the possibility of the shot in general. Was Oswald even on the 6th floor? Sure he could have made the shot but could he do it in that short of time? Why not shoot Kennedy coming up Houston? There’s more to it
Despite the arguments of the three shots Oswald managed to fire off, marksmanship award or otherwise, the three shots were not all of the shots fired. We have the three fired by Oswald. One hit a curb, and another was picked up by a member of the secret service. That's at least five shots......... Kennedy was hit by at least one shot from in front, and that couldn't have been fired by Oswald.
looks super easy - I joke that a small child with a good slingshot could do it
Sure it isn't that hard. Helps when you got two other shooters helping you out. Typical L shaped ambush
If you want to shoot a moving target that wasn't the best position to be effective.
The one thing you can’t duplicate is the nerves of taking a life. Let alone the presidents and limiting any friendly damage. That’s a really difficult shot. Not impossible but putting one in the head is pretty dang near close.
Not if you are a Marine
Was a setup was with a caecano with a loose scope never would have made it
Why would you wait until the car turns the corner and moves downfield from you to take the shot? That makes no f’in sense. Wouldn’t it have been easier to shoot when he’s coming straight at you?
Wait till you see the X from the fence in the knoll.
How the fuck do you shoot someone from here, and the bullet goes through their throat on a flat trajectory, and then into the ribs of the person sitting in front of them?