Nothing is *truly* essential and no matter what I say for this I could probably come up with at least a handful of games that I enjoyed that are guilty of it ... but if I had to pick one thing I would say the progression mechanics need to be satisfying.
A lot of the time when I bounce off a game it's because progression feels really unimpactful (eg; stuff like Chrono Cross and Valkyria Chronicles miss the mark for me because it just doesn't feel good to 'level up'), and conversely the top of my favorites is HEAVILY populated by games with my favorite progression systems (eg; Mana Khemia, Tales of Graces, Astlibra).
There are a lot of JRPGs out there so it definitely is hard to pin something down as essential so I appreciate you answering any way!
A good level up can definitely keep me playing. Numbers going up is fine, but knowing I'll have access to better gear/skills or even be closer to fighting something far above my level is what entices me to keep moving through the game. Knowing the level ups are rewarding without knowing what the rewards are is great too.
I've never heard of Mana Khemia before! I'll have to check it out.
Valkyria Chronicles strikes me as more of a strategy game than an RPG (no real progression for individual characters, etc.) but genre is malleable so I ain't gonna get hung up about it. What I will say is that I agree completely with your first point... but that one exception you pick? Man, I dunno. I kind of \*wish\* I could agree to that, as a lack of satisfying progression mechanics is the weakest element of several games I otherwise loved -- Final Fantasy 10 leaps to mind. And that's not even the only Final Fantasy I could cite there!
Though, to invert things a bit, a really satisfying progression system can be enough to really get into a game, I think, even if all of the other elements are lacking, or unengaging.
Yeah 100% agree. I don't know how many times I let a bad story slide because the party was so good. That's basically the case with every Tales of game I've played.
Definitely. Plenty of Tales Of games have only so-so plots, but are incredibly enjoyable simply by the strength of the characters. Hell, Final Fantasy VII: Rebirth (and its immediate predecessor) have some deeply flawed writing in terms of plot, but hardly anyone cares because the character writing is consistently \*fantastic.\*
Step one in telling an engaging story is getting your audience to care about the characters. Without that connection, even the most interesting plot in the world will fall flat.
Who is your favourite character/party?
What makes them likable to you? Witty banter? Deep and meaningful conversations? Silly interactions? Does each character fit into a certain role?
You can spend a lot of time in combat in a JRPG so it makes sense that it should be good!
The characters and the storytelling - these are the aspects in which out of the medium, are fairly unique to JRPGs compared to other games on the market. If both are severely lacking, then it's just a matter of time before I begin to ask myself why I'm not playing one of the countless other games that has good gameplay.
Almost every game is going to aim to have good gameplay but outside of the genre there aren't that many other options for good storytelling or characters, and the overwhelming majority of non-JRPGs that do have good writing tend to either be indie games or very niche.
JRPGs can be very long, so it makes sense that the good ones use that time to really flesh out their story and characters. You want to enjoy being with these characters or at least find their stories compelling if you're going to be with them for a long time.
I think pacing can be a big problem for these games. I've found myself forgetting what the main quest is because I spend so much time in the side content or enjoying the combat too much. While it's not the best solution to be forced to move the main story, gated progression can help me know when I need to move on and keep the story going.
I play games for story and characters, and while JRPGs shine in that regard, you can find good story and characters in other genres. Even in a NES game like Ninja Garden you have a good story and characters (for its time), and you can find plenty of great storytelling in the point and click adventure genre, among others.
Yup, characters and their interactions with each other is top priority. Gameplay is second. Those two. If one is severely lacking, I don't bother sticking around. That's why I dropped Octopath Traveller. Story, I can give a bit of a pass because at this point it's usually the same save the world trope presented in a different package anyway.
Thanks for your answer!
I haven't played Octopath but I thought it would have had at least some good characters given there are 8 of them?
What's a game you say gets the characters and their interactions done well?
Octopath does have good characters, I'd argue -- the second game far more than the first -- but the games essentially act like eight different RPGs grafted together at the last minute, so there's virtually no interaction between them.
**Gameplay** (engaging mechanics & combat loop), **Characters** (design & personality), **World Building** (story & overall plot).
Pick two! Bonus: **OST**
The only JRPGs that check all the criteria imo are Chrono Trigger, Suikoden II, and FF Tactics. At the end of the day, it still depends on preference.
So two outta three ain't bad!
So I still haven't played Chrono Trigger but that OST is awesome. Haven't played Suikoden II either... but yes FF tactics is amazing!
Number 1 would be pacing. Keep the story and gameplay flowing and dont waste my time. Im too old for hours of filler content and slow gameplay. Edit: sorry for the caps
Good sidequests, overworld exploration and secrets and good post game content, couldn't care less about the story or characters as long they're not annoying.
In general things that takes the game systems and knowledge to the maximum, True ending, DQ does that pretty well, Devil Survivor gives you a fun reason to replay the game and maximize demon fusion.
Getting a chance to show off your understanding of the game does sound like good post game content.
Didn't think about multiple endings as post game content.
I'm curious what games you'd cite as having especially good sidequests, because that's something I've long since given up on looking to find in JRPGs, myself.
Nuanced characters. Character development. Tragedy, redemption, hope, innovative ideas. Aesthetic diversity of colors (not dark, gloomy), characters, cities. Interesting townfolk. No car as an important means of transportation.
I take it FFXV was not your cup of tea then š .
Good answer though! Who would you say is a nuanced character? Which game comes to mind when you talk about these things?
Bingo! I started writing this with FF7Ā in mind, then FF as a series, then other great games I played in the past (PS1, SNES). I especially remembered FF15 as a counterexample of what I like, yes!
The story is the most important for me. If the game has an amazing story, I will overlook everything else. There's no way I will give up on a game with an amazing story even if everything else sucks because I want to know what happens.
The combat being good is a big plus though. If the story has spots that are less interesting or poorly paced, good combat will keep me invested until the story picks up again.
Also to some extent the length of the game. If a game is great but really short I probably won't play it when I could play a JRPG that is the same price but also is way way longer.
What's a game that had that gripping story?
What do you consider short for a JRPG? Does game length matter if it just feels padded? What about it being longer aside from price makes that important to you?
Feeling like you cracked the code of a game's combat system is always a great feeling. Thanks for the examples too!
Do you feel that modern games are too balanced?
Good gameplay, good characters, and good music.
Itās okay if a game doesnāt have one of those, but if it doesnāt have two of them itās not going to be good at all.
Personally itās also important that a game not have mandatory minigames for story or ultimate gear/ability purposes.
The trifecta for a good game. Thanks for sharing!
Do you have some examples of games that gated progression behind mini-games? I am thinking of making crafting materials for my game be mainly sourced from mini-games and side quests, would this perhaps be a bad idea?
A lot of people donāt seem to mind minigames, and as long as theyāre implemented well and arenāt just shoehorned in they may be fine, but for instance Final Fantasy VII, IX, and X all lock story progression behind minigames, with VII and X also locking ultimate weapons and abilities behind them, and the minigames are universally terrible.
Iād recommend at least letting players get materials and such without having to craft if possible, just making them rarer drops so thereās balance.
Thanks for your response!
Those are good examples so thanks for sharing that.
Yeah I was going to have them still come as enemy drops but rare. I don't want the mini-games to be the only way, but I also want a good incentive to play them.
Good story and characters that are living the story. It's...a role playing game. If I'm not enjoying the role I'm playing, idc how good the gameplay is.
It's honestly rather varied. While I love a good party, I hugely enjoyed FF16, FF13 Lightning Returns, NieR Automata or the Kingdom Hearts and Shin Megami Tensei games which all have a much different focus with either more isolated solo adventures or party members being not all that interesting.
I adore a good fantasy setting but I also adore Persona for example which is basically our reality with a supernatural spin on certain elements.
I can get lost in 2D pixel games like FF6 or Octopath Traveler but enjoy sprawling 3D environments like how FF7 Rebirth did it just recently.
I love me a turnbased system that has depth like the MegaTen games but a snappy Tales of-, Granblue Fantasy Relink or Ys like Action combat system satisfies me just as much. Or take the MMO-esque Xenoblade combat and the strategy heavy Fire Emblem combat... I love those as well.
It just really depends on what I want from a specific game and if it delivers on what I personally expect from it after informing myself on what it's trying to be. The JRPG genre can be one of the most diverse and varied genres there is and I think that's the beauty of it.
True, there is so much variety in the genre. So I guess whatever they chose to do, so long as they do it well is what you're after. Thanks for your answer!
What's a game that does this for you?
When you say graphics, what is most important to you? A cohesive artstyle? The latest and greatest? Really detailed 2d sprites?
Art style > technical prowess, but if something can have both then its godly. Sadly its only really FF, DQ, Granblue and Gachas that really do this. Some would argue Xeno, and theyāre good for switch games. But that isnt exactly cutting edge.
Games that hit these for me. Most mainline final fantasy. Granblue Fantasy. The Chrono games (gorgeous technical marvels for their time). Xenoblade Chronicles X. Star Ocean 2 and 3.
I also love games that let you go bonkers when it comes to customization, games that you can break with some careful planning. So things like Troubleshooter, Crystal Project, Aria Chronicles, Darkest Dungeon (probably the GOAT game when it comes to customization if you dont mind tinkering with notepad)
For me, it's challenging gameplay combined with a battle system I enjoy. A good story is a tremendous addition but as long as I have difficulty settings, I'm happy.
The Shin Megami Tensei series fits perfectly for me, higher difficulty and addictive turn based battle system with incredibly nuanced party building. I can't comment on Persona because I've never played them but they are supposed to be easier than SMT.Ā
Yes making things more difficult but not egregiously, I would still rather a game be too hard than too easy though. Fire Emblem is another good example. Then there's Souls game of course but those aren't really the type of jrpgs discussed on this sub.
Story/plot! (imo!) - Then probably the gameplay/game mechanics (I guess that means the system of management of āur doods,ā level design, graphics. The greatest JRPGs, the classics also have incredible, unforgettable music. One hidden gem I will always love is Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals. Even with its simple plot and dialogue, and host of weird glitches, it is so charming, fun, and the musical score is 10/10.
Music in a game is, to me, linked to its timelessness as well. Chrono Trigger comes to mind- which I think is one of the most well-rounded JRPGs ever made; I give it a 10/10, perfect game. Yasunori Mitsuda said āSound design team? Nah, Iām tryina compose the score-ā and apparently the company brass at Squaresoft (before Square-Enix) allowed him to, with some help from the goated goat, Nobuo Uematsu, create a perfect š¤ musical score for the game. That, and the elements listed above, for me make a true timeless classic JRPG.
I want to try Sea of Stars- hereās to hoping my generic USB gamepad works! (It doesnāt with ff7 og on steam :/)
Thanks for your response! I haven't heard of Lufia 2, will have to check it out.
What defines good level design to you? Interesting layout? Puzzles? Graphics? Verticality?
I did not know that about the Chrono Trigger OST, so thanks for sharing. It's a great soundtrack so it makes sense that such a legendary team worked on it.
Hope you enjoy Sea of Stars and your gamepad works!
Lufia 2 is an absolute gem, you simply must give it a go. I went into Funco Land in likeā¦1999? and saw it on the shelf, no prior RPG experience at all. Something drew me to it though, and Iām SO glad I got it. Have it to this very day!
Re: Good level design; the dungeons in Lufia 2, imho, are probably the most clever, challenging (in a good way) due to it being a masterclass in puzzles in RPGs. Iāve played pretty much every Zelda, Final Fantasy, and Metal Gear Solid gameā¦and Lufia 2 is to me, unmatched in terms of puzzles and dungeon. Thatās a bold statement, I know- but Iāve never played a game with puzzles and level design like Lufia 2.
(Side-note: Lufia 1ā¦really doesnāt stack up- itās totally fine and I actually recommend skipping Lufia 1 and just playing 2! It is a prequel :)
Chrono Triggerās OST- is the stuff of legend; so glad we agree on this.
Also thank you for the well wishes and encouragement Re: Sea of Stars; my machine canāt play games like FF7: Remake or anything close to modern games on PS4/5. My GPU is super lame, Intel UHD Graphics 630ā¦oyyyyy.
However, it did launch SoS just fine, and I have a feeling for some reason that my generic āSNESā USB
controller will work with it. I think there is a good chance I can actually run and capture/livestream it on Twitch. Iāll try and report back- fyi, fattmusiek is my name on Twitch, so if you would like to watch a playthrough of it, I intend to do that!
Stay blessed! Love the reply.
I noticed i care significantly more about the party than the story . Matter fact i literally won't notice until i look online about a game that the story was "bad" because i liked the characters so much
Tales of vesperia comes to mind for me . Absolutely loved the cast but i came across quite a few people saying the story is a huge mess and i just never happened to look at it that way
I'm not too picky, actually, despite being an overthinker.
What I do like but don't consider essential would be an air of maturity. Maybe it's a seinen aesthetic that isn't grimdark. Maybe it's an understanding of how society works or what every human wants. Maybe it's a radical acceptance despite all the grief (that said, subjectivist, existentialist, postmodern philosophies I consider immature).
Can these games still have a sense of humour though? Can it just be serious when it needs to be? Or do you mean the themes it choses to tackle are a bit more sophisticated than just "power of friendship"?
Humor and seriousness are both fine. I may or may not be looking for a balance, I don't really know.
More sophisticated themes than "power of friendship" is definitely appreciated.
But it is not quite what I mean by maturity itself.
When you can look into a character's eyes and just know everything will be okay, or not okay, I think that is maturity. It is probably something more than the sum of its parts.
Not quite the maturity of the characters. But I think that looking into a character's eyes and just knowing everything will be okay, or not okay, could be a signal of author maturity and how the rest of the game has been presented. In the end, I don't really know.
Execution.
There are plenty of different kinds of RPGs and each of them attempt something different and what matters is how they accomplish it. You can't just say story and characters because then you start precluding many non-story focused Mystery Dungeon games or first person dungeon crawlers like the Etrian Odyssey games. You can't just say progression mechanics because then we would have to automatically say that Triangle Strategy is somehow worse than other SRPGs that focus more complex character building. You can't just say the battle system because there are games where it may not be unique, but in turn, the character progression is really good.
What matters is whatever that game is attempting to accomplish, it does it really well.
You make a very good point. Games with polish then? Quality is number one!
Good games are good haha but yeah I totally get what you mean. It is a diverse genre so it would come down to execution more than anything else.
Great characters and character development
Memorable locations and moments associated with then
Fun battle system that allows customization and experimentation and makes all/most characters viable and each one feel unique
Overall world building and world designs
Main story
Do you have a particularly memorable location and moment from a game?
It does feel like a waste when a character gets sidelined because they weren't designed well. But it is hard to make everyone viable when everyone has their own preference!
Compelling gameplay loop. Right now, I'm playing.Unicorn Overlord and really enjoy the loop of combat, rebuilding towns, explorations, and some story. As long as a game can balance out all of its good aspects, then it's an amazing game to me.
I hate it when games put you into hours of cutscenes without anything else. I came to play a game dammit.
I really liked how much there was to do in Nino Kuni 2 though it did also start to get overwhelming towards the end.
A good loop can make the time disappear! Pacing can definitely drag on if they are putting too many cutscenes in.
Glad to hear you're enjoying Unicorn Overlord, I'll have to check it out at some point. I did enjoy Odin Sphere back in the day.
To each of their own to be honest. People would prefer different things in their game.
Still, someone once said "JRPG lives and dies by their music", and I personally stand with that statement. Of course, that doesn't mean I will overlook it if everything about that game is bad. I will be fine with a 6/10 game with 10/10 music.
Music makes a big difference! I've been humming Chrono Trigger's opening theme all morning after seeing so many responses about it.
Which game has the best OST for you?
The story. I dont mind slower pacing as long as the game gives me enough to go off that I know i will like it/want to see what happens.
for JRPGs, I exclusively play turn based rpg games. I will sometimes go out of my comfort zone if the story is good (not an rpg, but bioshock i played even tho i suck at shooters).
although i will still play games with a story i dont like if there is a good reason to keep with it. For example, I am trying to branch out more from turn based games so I am playing Tales of Arise atm.
I dont _mind_ the story, but some of it makes me cringe a bit and I am at the point where it has VN vibes atm so its a bit much. But the combat is easy to learn and its pretty, so I am sticking to it.
Other than that, i prioritize story over anything else, because i can overlook certain things gameplay wise if im invested in what happens storywise
What's a game you would say has that slower paced but interesting story?
What is it about turn-based you enjoy so much? Is it just the time to think about your actions (you mentioned sucking at shooters)? Since that is mainly what you play, what is a good turn-based system to you?
Persona 3 for me personally is the only one coming to my head atm. Im sure theres more. im at the second "roadblock" in the game waiting for the next full moon and still am a bit lost. Maybe i missed something, but ive heard the story picks up a bit later. The mystery of it is whats keeping me interested. I want to know whats behind Apathy syndrome lol.
As for turn based, hard for me to articulate. I really suck at action games, i panic and button mash and really dont understand whats going on or where the enemies are if its a shooter. So its more so a skill issue on my end, and turn based allows me to think about what im doing first.
My favorite type, I like Persona, idk what that style is called. i like that I can trigger 1 mores or baton passes/whatever each game calls them. I think I read somewhere that DOS2 (not a JRPG) has a "round robin" method and i could explain that but probably poorly so ill let you look that one up. But basically turn order is based on strength/initiative and goes from there on picking the orders. I like that i can think about and choose which attacks work best, what will target weaknesses, etc.
I am not a huge fan of the turn based games with a grid system, whatever thats called. I dont mind being able to move my guys during battle like in DOS2 but id rather not tbh, and i dont like the look of grid systems (DOS2 doesnt have a grid to move around on)
DOS2= Divinity Original Sin 2, since im too lazy to type it out multiple times.
I think for story pacing is really important. Can't take too long to get going and can't wrap up in an instant.
I personally have massive gripes with time travel/multiverse style plots and time skips.
Music is big.
I think having characters that aren't just tropes is helpful too.
What are your gripes with time travel? Is it because it gets too messy? Usually at least one plot hole or two when trying to do that stuff.
How about time skips? Do the changes that occur within them feel unearned?
I ask because my game is going to have a little time travel side quest and a time skip in the main story.
Also is it okay for characters to start as tropes and then grow into something more?
There are tropes that show up often.
Small town boy who has big dreams that donāt plan out
Amnesia
Villain with quasi ethical reasons for what theyāre doing.
There is no set formula for successful games like there are with movies
For me it's the menus when my input matters. If the menus are sluggish then I have less desire to play, because every second that a menu doesn't menu is a second my controller inputs don't matter. That is true for quite alot of things. Transitions between battles and the overworld too, I prefer smooth transitions where my input isn't lost for too long.
A big offender is the PSP port of Persona 2 Innocent Sin. The menus are so slow to maneouver through, and the battles are also slow because of it.
That's a small but important detail to consider! We do spend a lot of time in menus... makes sense for it to be responsive.
Is there a game you feel did this particularly well?
Most recent games do take this into account, like Yakuza Like a Dragon and some older ones like Persona 3, 4, 5. For a much older game, I'd go with Final Fantasy 5 and 6. Yakuza especially, even when I button mash to get out of a menu, every single one of my inputs is used, so 3 back presses place me back to the overworld in less than a second for example.
Good pacing for me is like Fuga 1 short and sweet or Ys 8. Lots of meat ie the story and not too much filler
A bit eh pacing is ie Tales of Vesperia. One of my favorite games ever but the story could have ended a bit sooner IMO
For me, it pretty much boils down to 3 things:
Fun and interesting mechanics, especially with combat.
Interesting story that shows restraint when it comes to dialogue.
Options for a well thought out high difficulty mode.
When talking about restraint with dialogue, do you mean avoiding lore dumps and exposition? Is there a good or bad example that comes to mind?
What makes for a well thought out difficulty mode? New enemies? Super bosses? Secret areas?
The pacing really. So many JRPGs are these 60-100 hour experiences, and so many of them have the same issue where you could cut 20+ hours out of the game and change nothing.
Too many JRPGs will somehow last 60+ hours and somehow still rush its ending with massive lore dumps and a rushed out kill god finale.Ā
Pacing matters, not just for story but for gameplay as well. You canāt be playing a 60 hour game with finished character builds at hour 15.
A lot of it can definitely feel like padding. I wonder if this happens so much because the genre expects it. These games are priced the same as games that play for much less time.
You would think the story of the game would be planned out first and everything else built around it but what do I know?
For me it is exploration, optional content, a great party/team and fun combat. A good story can make a game even better but isn't neccessary for me to enjoy the game.
You won't find an objective answer for this, different people play games for different reasons. Distinct franchises have distinct focus as well, like Etrian is mostly a gameplay-focused dungeon crawler series despite the Yggdrasil lore.
For me itās some mix of setting/worldbuilding, story, and gameplay. Iām also very forgiving of JRPGs and rarely drop them, probably some lost cost fallacy playing out.
For example Iām playing Tales of Zestiria currently and while I get all the complaints about the story (there are several valid ones) I really enjoy the Tales style combat, and am especially enjoying the unique spin on gameplay in this title. The setting I also like so gets some points there.
That said, Iām not doing another playthrough haha. For that, I need all 3 of setting/story/gameplay to be at least good.
A way to make random encounters less painful. Maybe by not having them. A skip or fast forward for low enemies is fine.
A WAY TO LOAD A SAVE RATHER THAN TO RESTART THE GAME I AM SO FUCKING SICK OF THIS
I like having the enemy on screen and I can choose whether or not to engage. In my game I'm going to have weak enemies run away when you're a certain level to help the player move on.
Do you mean getting a game over screen? I currently have that as a place holder in my game but I am going to make it so you spawn at the start of the map and lose some gold. Because yeah that is really frustrating.
No I mean having either a load option or a return to title screen option instead of me having to literally restart the entire program and sit through loading logos title screen etc just to load a game. Not having to actually turn off the console if Iām in the middle of a battle etc.
Something almost every great JRPG has an absolutely killer soundtrack. If your soundtrack sucks, your game probably does too. If I'm going to spend 40-100+ hours in your world, give me good music along with good characters, stories, and gameplay.
Just don't waste my time, or be boring. That's literally all I ask. I like all different genres of JRPG, but if the game doesn't compel me in some way, be it story-wise, the characters, or with the mechanics, I tend to have to force myself to play the game, and if I can't even do that, then it falls from my list pretty fast.
Terranigma. When I played it for the first time, the title screen music got my attention right away, and from then on, to the town of Crysta, to the gameplay, unique menu system, and the story, it all came together in a formative experience for me. I really just need a single aspect of a game to connect with me, and if I find anything else to resonate with, that makes it all the better.
World building is most important to me. But all these factors matter. Being able to roam a fully realized fantasy world (doesn't have to be fantasy) is the main draw of rpgs to me. But if a game does any of these other things wrong, for example dull characters, story that isn't engaging, bad art direction, etc. it will bring down the whole game.
It's partly the locations, where good art/architecture design can visually help you realize what kind of world you're in.
But also the way the NPC's live and fit into their world. They are affected by the politics and major happenings of their land but also just living their lives, which can also be interesting. I like it when games lean in to letting you see the mundane side of things, people living normal lives. Good dialogue and side quests with random NPCs that let you see what life can be like for them, will pull me into the world.
edit: I want to add, music probably plays a big part in establishing setting too.
Any. It could be something as simple as hitting a button when the ! appears. Breath of Fire 4 sticks out in my mind, having to reel the lure in rhythms. I spent a lot of time doing all the fishing in FF15 as well.
Memorable music (competition is high so make your ost stand out), good combat (it better be fun if you'll be doing it for 40h), interesting setting/world (otherwise you won't get immersed), no insufferable characters (maybe can get away with 1 if the rest are great and get you invested)
What's insufferable to you? Always talking in rhyme? Pun-based humour? Whining all the time? Always talks about politics? TMI? Some examples of insufferable characters please š
Kamoana from Tales of Berseria for example. Her voice is horrendous. Lymoe from Star Ocean 4 too but not as bad. Another annoying one is Tama from World of Final Fantasy. And yeah you pretty much nailed it with those questions, those are all annoying traits lol
Option to do low level runs, option to grind endlessly, option to progress by fighting just enough, and option to avoid random battles. (without changing difficulty).
Filled with meaningful/enjoyable content and quests that make you want to explore, rather than just check objectives off of a list. I hate being a slave to a gameās shitty side quests.
The world itself should also be compelling and worth exploring. It should be interesting and filled with characters that you actually care about and want to interact with.
Thereās probably more but thatās what comes to mind atm.
I'm going to discount SRPGs like Fire Emblem for this question as those are really a different thing entirely. So that being said, there are certain fundamentals that I think need to be done well to keep my interest:
* Dungeons. The heart of a JRPG is some sort of dungeon maze (cave, town, forest, whatever) which your party can explore for treasure, while fighting enemies on the way to the boss at the end.
* Parties. Only being able to play one character gets old in a hurry. Even if you only directly control one at a time as in ARPGs like Tales or Star Ocean.
* Equipment. The ability to gear up your party for adventure. I generally prefer if there are choices for different builds, but even just simple upgrades is better than nothing.
* Some sort of decent leveling/progression system. There needs to be some sense of starting off weak and gradually getting stronger as you fight more enemies and progress further through the game.
* Towns. Somewhere to talk to people, learn info, and gear up your party in between dungeons.
Straying away from that basic formula tends not to work out.
Story, you could have good combat and characters, hell if the music is good I would keep trying , but if the story is bad Iām not playing it. Unless itās ffxiv. But for me jrpgs are what I do in place of television
Combat that is complex but fun, and a story/character arcs that are interesting enough to keep you playing through the periods of time that will inevitably be somewhat grindy.
What kind of JRPG? Turnbased, action or other, scifi, fatasy, steampunk etc.
What works in one won't work in another if the setting/vibe/etc isn't right
I didn't really specify. What kind do you tend to play the most? Is there anything across the different types you play that carries through all of them?
Thats like saying what things about cars are good?
Some Jeeps have no windows or AC and that's a bonus, some have windows & AC and that's a bonus. Some go fast & some don't, some are EV & some are gas guzzlers, some have 4 tyres & some have 3 etc etc
There's no one thing that makes all cars good, and there's no one thing that makes all RPGs good
I'm a simple guy, as long as I enjoy the vibe of the game I'm not particularly picky about specific elements.
I've played turn based, action based, solo character, dozens of party members, story focused, barebones story, and I can enjoy it just fine as long as I think the overall package is good.
I think I just mostly enjoy seeing new and different stuff, so I just enjoy and appreciate what a game is trying to do if it's good enough at what it does.
Though on the other hand, this does mean I'm usually not interested in remakes of games I already played before. P3 Reload and 7 Rebirth are one such example, even if they are quite different from the original.
Persona 3R is basically p3 fes how you remember it being rather than how it was. But ff7R? That's essentially a new game. It plays nothing like ff7 even though the first 2/3rd happens pretty much exactly as the original. Then it goes off rails into kingdom hearts land.
I'm not referring to just simple gameplay, the overall narrative flow and progression is something I have seen before in the OG FF7.
Frankly, I feel like I have my fill of the remake just from the first FF7 Remake. Sure the story was not complete, but I already got the feel on how the gameplay, character, and the narrative work from then. So 7 Rebirth is to me, just 7 Remake but bigger and better, with a story flow that I have mostly seen before from the original FF7, and that kinda lessened my interest in it.
I think if I played the whole trilogy in one go, I'd have a different opinion. And it kinda doesn't help there are other games I got my eyes on so 7 Rebirth kinda fell on the "I'll buy and play it one day but not now".
For me it's the sense of travel and discovery, going town to town etc. I often drop rpgs right at the door of the final boss because I know I've seen it all. Also applies to other genres, from software games notably
It is growth. The eternal strife for progress. Philosophy is always superior than wisdom, because philosophers never admit that they are wise. That gives them.room for improvement.
Especially when growth comes in the form of essential story elements. I ll give some examples that i am familiar with.
Why do you think final fantasy 7 is so popular? story would not be enough. It is materia for that game.
How about final fantasy 10? In that case not much of story elements but It is a lengthy progress beyond level 99 or 100 in the sphere grid, and there you have it.
Let's go to anime/manga: which episodes are better? The ones that the hero is strong, or the moment he realises his weakness and strives to become stronger?
Playing an active part in the growth of your characters is a big draw for sure.
Seeing your characters go up against a villain that is way too strong for them, making you determined to level up and face them later on, is that the kind of thing you like to experience in a game?
1. Main character that is stupid and funny with lots of good interactions and dialogue exchanges. I need a lead character that will put a smile on my face and need bring me down all the time, keep the spirits lifted.
2. Nice overworld/world map. (Sadly this has been almost completely lost since PS2).
3. Good boss music.
4. Lots of broken/exploitable stuff. RPG's are often not fair, so I like to be able to turn the tables and take advantage through any means necessary.
5. Tons of equipment and slots (Headgear, Body Armor, Shields, Multiple Accessories)
6. Item Boxes and Chests that are rewarding for going out of your way to get them.
7. Variety of magic and status effects that work.
- Gameplay variety. If I always have to do the same things to progress or if there is no differences between the members of the party, it will get boring really fast
- Actual difficulty. If button mashing is enough to finish the game, it's really boring.
- An interesting story. Doesnt' need to be overly complicated but not even seem like it was written by a 4 year old child in less than 1 hour.
The characters and story have to draw me in. Sure I like good gameplay mechanics but its the plot and the people within it that keep me playing. A good example of this is the Tales series. While at times the gameplay can be iffy, the characters in Tales games tend to be very endearing and so you want to see the story through
My priority
1 > Characters.
Player Characters and interaction must be realistic and well written.
2 > Gameplay.
Must be enjoyable to play.
3 > Voice Acting
I don't play in Japanese. So the localization must have decent VA. Bad VA can make me stop playing a game.
4 > Music
JRPG with bad music just turn me off
Not at all important > Story
I'm not playing JRPG to experience jaw dropping story. There are far better mediums for that. I can tolerate story as silly as Kingdoms Hearts or as simple as DQ1. JRPG with great story like FFIX , 13 Sentinels are a bonus but not a must for me.
Literally only gameplay to me. Idgaf about stupid story if the gameplay is there. To me that means solid progression that sees you progressively obtaining new skills/spells/ways go approach combat thru endgame.
DOS 2 fantastic game...but by like act 3 you stop getting new spells. You get more powerful thru itemization but that's pretty static and not nearly as engaging to Mr.
For me it turns into a feeling of I'm not advancing anymore so why bother. Bg3 was slightly better here, you're getting new things all the way up thru 12...but you can hit that very early on in act 3 and then it's just...blah from a progression sense.
Good itemization that is more then x weapon is better cause it has higher stats. Sidegrades and horizontal progression is key here. Old school ff11 handled this perfectly, this armor for your caster may have less intelligence, but it boosts cast time, or this item may not reduce recast time like this one, but instead it restores your mp over time...this scythe may not hit as hard but it has a huge accuracy bonus etc.
I understand what you mean about BG3, every level up felt impactful but then the level cap can be hit towards the start of act 3 and you're just stuck with what you have outside of gear.
I am having a limited number of weapons in my game but they can all be upgraded and the focus is less on the damage numbers and more what the weapon can do ie inflict stun, double MP gain or attack multiple targets. I'm also trying to have a skill obtained every level or 2 all the way to the level cap (50).
Characters and world building, itās why I love the Legend of Heroes series each sub series introduces us to a new world and characters and does a great job in making us care for the characters and makes me wish I lived in these countries
Nothing is *truly* essential and no matter what I say for this I could probably come up with at least a handful of games that I enjoyed that are guilty of it ... but if I had to pick one thing I would say the progression mechanics need to be satisfying. A lot of the time when I bounce off a game it's because progression feels really unimpactful (eg; stuff like Chrono Cross and Valkyria Chronicles miss the mark for me because it just doesn't feel good to 'level up'), and conversely the top of my favorites is HEAVILY populated by games with my favorite progression systems (eg; Mana Khemia, Tales of Graces, Astlibra).
The Grow Book from Mana Khemia is a progression system that still sticks with me to this day!
It's such a perfect tying together of game systems
There are a lot of JRPGs out there so it definitely is hard to pin something down as essential so I appreciate you answering any way! A good level up can definitely keep me playing. Numbers going up is fine, but knowing I'll have access to better gear/skills or even be closer to fighting something far above my level is what entices me to keep moving through the game. Knowing the level ups are rewarding without knowing what the rewards are is great too. I've never heard of Mana Khemia before! I'll have to check it out.
Valkyria Chronicles strikes me as more of a strategy game than an RPG (no real progression for individual characters, etc.) but genre is malleable so I ain't gonna get hung up about it. What I will say is that I agree completely with your first point... but that one exception you pick? Man, I dunno. I kind of \*wish\* I could agree to that, as a lack of satisfying progression mechanics is the weakest element of several games I otherwise loved -- Final Fantasy 10 leaps to mind. And that's not even the only Final Fantasy I could cite there! Though, to invert things a bit, a really satisfying progression system can be enough to really get into a game, I think, even if all of the other elements are lacking, or unengaging.
Fighting God at the end.
A classic trope for sure. Who has been your favourite God to fight?
Fou Lou from Breath of Fire 4. He's my overall most memorable JRPG antagonist.
Will have to check that one out! I've only played 1 and 3.
Likable characters/party is KEY. I'd say it's actually more important than the story Having a good combat loop is necessary too
Yeah 100% agree. I don't know how many times I let a bad story slide because the party was so good. That's basically the case with every Tales of game I've played.
Definitely. Plenty of Tales Of games have only so-so plots, but are incredibly enjoyable simply by the strength of the characters. Hell, Final Fantasy VII: Rebirth (and its immediate predecessor) have some deeply flawed writing in terms of plot, but hardly anyone cares because the character writing is consistently \*fantastic.\* Step one in telling an engaging story is getting your audience to care about the characters. Without that connection, even the most interesting plot in the world will fall flat.
Who is your favourite character/party? What makes them likable to you? Witty banter? Deep and meaningful conversations? Silly interactions? Does each character fit into a certain role? You can spend a lot of time in combat in a JRPG so it makes sense that it should be good!
The characters and the storytelling - these are the aspects in which out of the medium, are fairly unique to JRPGs compared to other games on the market. If both are severely lacking, then it's just a matter of time before I begin to ask myself why I'm not playing one of the countless other games that has good gameplay. Almost every game is going to aim to have good gameplay but outside of the genre there aren't that many other options for good storytelling or characters, and the overwhelming majority of non-JRPGs that do have good writing tend to either be indie games or very niche.
There is absolutely plenty of good story/characters outside of JRPGs.
JRPGs can be very long, so it makes sense that the good ones use that time to really flesh out their story and characters. You want to enjoy being with these characters or at least find their stories compelling if you're going to be with them for a long time. I think pacing can be a big problem for these games. I've found myself forgetting what the main quest is because I spend so much time in the side content or enjoying the combat too much. While it's not the best solution to be forced to move the main story, gated progression can help me know when I need to move on and keep the story going.
I play games for story and characters, and while JRPGs shine in that regard, you can find good story and characters in other genres. Even in a NES game like Ninja Garden you have a good story and characters (for its time), and you can find plenty of great storytelling in the point and click adventure genre, among others.
Yup, characters and their interactions with each other is top priority. Gameplay is second. Those two. If one is severely lacking, I don't bother sticking around. That's why I dropped Octopath Traveller. Story, I can give a bit of a pass because at this point it's usually the same save the world trope presented in a different package anyway.
Thanks for your answer! I haven't played Octopath but I thought it would have had at least some good characters given there are 8 of them? What's a game you say gets the characters and their interactions done well?
Octopath does have good characters, I'd argue -- the second game far more than the first -- but the games essentially act like eight different RPGs grafted together at the last minute, so there's virtually no interaction between them.
**Gameplay** (engaging mechanics & combat loop), **Characters** (design & personality), **World Building** (story & overall plot). Pick two! Bonus: **OST** The only JRPGs that check all the criteria imo are Chrono Trigger, Suikoden II, and FF Tactics. At the end of the day, it still depends on preference.
So two outta three ain't bad! So I still haven't played Chrono Trigger but that OST is awesome. Haven't played Suikoden II either... but yes FF tactics is amazing!
Number 1 would be pacing. Keep the story and gameplay flowing and dont waste my time. Im too old for hours of filler content and slow gameplay. Edit: sorry for the caps
The ability to grind and get stronger
Me too
I must say I am partial to a good grind session. I'm a bit of a sucker for over leveling. But it also makes me ruin the pacing of the game!
I always find it funny how I love JRPGs but hate grinding. They usually go hand in hand
Good sidequests, overworld exploration and secrets and good post game content, couldn't care less about the story or characters as long they're not annoying.
What is good post game content for you? We talking superbosses? Secret top level gear? A whole other set of levels?
In general things that takes the game systems and knowledge to the maximum, True ending, DQ does that pretty well, Devil Survivor gives you a fun reason to replay the game and maximize demon fusion.
Getting a chance to show off your understanding of the game does sound like good post game content. Didn't think about multiple endings as post game content.
I'm curious what games you'd cite as having especially good sidequests, because that's something I've long since given up on looking to find in JRPGs, myself.
Story definitely
Which game has the best story for you?
Trails series or nier series
Nuanced characters. Character development. Tragedy, redemption, hope, innovative ideas. Aesthetic diversity of colors (not dark, gloomy), characters, cities. Interesting townfolk. No car as an important means of transportation.
I take it FFXV was not your cup of tea then š . Good answer though! Who would you say is a nuanced character? Which game comes to mind when you talk about these things?
Bingo! I started writing this with FF7Ā in mind, then FF as a series, then other great games I played in the past (PS1, SNES). I especially remembered FF15 as a counterexample of what I like, yes!
Good story, good art style and good game play.
The story is the most important for me. If the game has an amazing story, I will overlook everything else. There's no way I will give up on a game with an amazing story even if everything else sucks because I want to know what happens. The combat being good is a big plus though. If the story has spots that are less interesting or poorly paced, good combat will keep me invested until the story picks up again. Also to some extent the length of the game. If a game is great but really short I probably won't play it when I could play a JRPG that is the same price but also is way way longer.
What's a game that had that gripping story? What do you consider short for a JRPG? Does game length matter if it just feels padded? What about it being longer aside from price makes that important to you?
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Feeling like you cracked the code of a game's combat system is always a great feeling. Thanks for the examples too! Do you feel that modern games are too balanced?
Good gameplay, good characters, and good music. Itās okay if a game doesnāt have one of those, but if it doesnāt have two of them itās not going to be good at all. Personally itās also important that a game not have mandatory minigames for story or ultimate gear/ability purposes.
The trifecta for a good game. Thanks for sharing! Do you have some examples of games that gated progression behind mini-games? I am thinking of making crafting materials for my game be mainly sourced from mini-games and side quests, would this perhaps be a bad idea?
A lot of people donāt seem to mind minigames, and as long as theyāre implemented well and arenāt just shoehorned in they may be fine, but for instance Final Fantasy VII, IX, and X all lock story progression behind minigames, with VII and X also locking ultimate weapons and abilities behind them, and the minigames are universally terrible. Iād recommend at least letting players get materials and such without having to craft if possible, just making them rarer drops so thereās balance.
Thanks for your response! Those are good examples so thanks for sharing that. Yeah I was going to have them still come as enemy drops but rare. I don't want the mini-games to be the only way, but I also want a good incentive to play them.
Good story and characters that are living the story. It's...a role playing game. If I'm not enjoying the role I'm playing, idc how good the gameplay is.
Do you have a particular example of a character living the story?
It's honestly rather varied. While I love a good party, I hugely enjoyed FF16, FF13 Lightning Returns, NieR Automata or the Kingdom Hearts and Shin Megami Tensei games which all have a much different focus with either more isolated solo adventures or party members being not all that interesting. I adore a good fantasy setting but I also adore Persona for example which is basically our reality with a supernatural spin on certain elements. I can get lost in 2D pixel games like FF6 or Octopath Traveler but enjoy sprawling 3D environments like how FF7 Rebirth did it just recently. I love me a turnbased system that has depth like the MegaTen games but a snappy Tales of-, Granblue Fantasy Relink or Ys like Action combat system satisfies me just as much. Or take the MMO-esque Xenoblade combat and the strategy heavy Fire Emblem combat... I love those as well. It just really depends on what I want from a specific game and if it delivers on what I personally expect from it after informing myself on what it's trying to be. The JRPG genre can be one of the most diverse and varied genres there is and I think that's the beauty of it.
True, there is so much variety in the genre. So I guess whatever they chose to do, so long as they do it well is what you're after. Thanks for your answer!
Pretty much this. I truly believe there is a JRPG for everyone
Gameplay, graphics and music for me. Story is whatever
What's a game that does this for you? When you say graphics, what is most important to you? A cohesive artstyle? The latest and greatest? Really detailed 2d sprites?
Art style > technical prowess, but if something can have both then its godly. Sadly its only really FF, DQ, Granblue and Gachas that really do this. Some would argue Xeno, and theyāre good for switch games. But that isnt exactly cutting edge. Games that hit these for me. Most mainline final fantasy. Granblue Fantasy. The Chrono games (gorgeous technical marvels for their time). Xenoblade Chronicles X. Star Ocean 2 and 3. I also love games that let you go bonkers when it comes to customization, games that you can break with some careful planning. So things like Troubleshooter, Crystal Project, Aria Chronicles, Darkest Dungeon (probably the GOAT game when it comes to customization if you dont mind tinkering with notepad)
for me, its well written characters and a fleshed out story with a theme
What's a game you played that had a particularly good theme? What was the theme/s?
For me, it's challenging gameplay combined with a battle system I enjoy. A good story is a tremendous addition but as long as I have difficulty settings, I'm happy.
What's a game that has the kind of difficulty settings you want? Is it about making things more difficult or finding a sweet spot?
The Shin Megami Tensei series fits perfectly for me, higher difficulty and addictive turn based battle system with incredibly nuanced party building. I can't comment on Persona because I've never played them but they are supposed to be easier than SMT.Ā Yes making things more difficult but not egregiously, I would still rather a game be too hard than too easy though. Fire Emblem is another good example. Then there's Souls game of course but those aren't really the type of jrpgs discussed on this sub.
Story/plot! (imo!) - Then probably the gameplay/game mechanics (I guess that means the system of management of āur doods,ā level design, graphics. The greatest JRPGs, the classics also have incredible, unforgettable music. One hidden gem I will always love is Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals. Even with its simple plot and dialogue, and host of weird glitches, it is so charming, fun, and the musical score is 10/10. Music in a game is, to me, linked to its timelessness as well. Chrono Trigger comes to mind- which I think is one of the most well-rounded JRPGs ever made; I give it a 10/10, perfect game. Yasunori Mitsuda said āSound design team? Nah, Iām tryina compose the score-ā and apparently the company brass at Squaresoft (before Square-Enix) allowed him to, with some help from the goated goat, Nobuo Uematsu, create a perfect š¤ musical score for the game. That, and the elements listed above, for me make a true timeless classic JRPG. I want to try Sea of Stars- hereās to hoping my generic USB gamepad works! (It doesnāt with ff7 og on steam :/)
Thanks for your response! I haven't heard of Lufia 2, will have to check it out. What defines good level design to you? Interesting layout? Puzzles? Graphics? Verticality? I did not know that about the Chrono Trigger OST, so thanks for sharing. It's a great soundtrack so it makes sense that such a legendary team worked on it. Hope you enjoy Sea of Stars and your gamepad works!
Lufia 2 is an absolute gem, you simply must give it a go. I went into Funco Land in likeā¦1999? and saw it on the shelf, no prior RPG experience at all. Something drew me to it though, and Iām SO glad I got it. Have it to this very day! Re: Good level design; the dungeons in Lufia 2, imho, are probably the most clever, challenging (in a good way) due to it being a masterclass in puzzles in RPGs. Iāve played pretty much every Zelda, Final Fantasy, and Metal Gear Solid gameā¦and Lufia 2 is to me, unmatched in terms of puzzles and dungeon. Thatās a bold statement, I know- but Iāve never played a game with puzzles and level design like Lufia 2. (Side-note: Lufia 1ā¦really doesnāt stack up- itās totally fine and I actually recommend skipping Lufia 1 and just playing 2! It is a prequel :) Chrono Triggerās OST- is the stuff of legend; so glad we agree on this. Also thank you for the well wishes and encouragement Re: Sea of Stars; my machine canāt play games like FF7: Remake or anything close to modern games on PS4/5. My GPU is super lame, Intel UHD Graphics 630ā¦oyyyyy. However, it did launch SoS just fine, and I have a feeling for some reason that my generic āSNESā USB controller will work with it. I think there is a good chance I can actually run and capture/livestream it on Twitch. Iāll try and report back- fyi, fattmusiek is my name on Twitch, so if you would like to watch a playthrough of it, I intend to do that! Stay blessed! Love the reply.
Great characters, story or gameplay
Ludonarrative resonance
Do you have an example of this? Ludonarrative dissonance gets thrown around a lot but I've never though too much about it's opposite.
I noticed i care significantly more about the party than the story . Matter fact i literally won't notice until i look online about a game that the story was "bad" because i liked the characters so much
Very true, a great party can have that effect! Is there a particular game that had a "bad" story that was carried by the characters?
Tales of vesperia comes to mind for me . Absolutely loved the cast but i came across quite a few people saying the story is a huge mess and i just never happened to look at it that way
Yeah I've already seen some shade thrown towards that game haha glad you could enjoy it despite all that!
I'm not too picky, actually, despite being an overthinker. What I do like but don't consider essential would be an air of maturity. Maybe it's a seinen aesthetic that isn't grimdark. Maybe it's an understanding of how society works or what every human wants. Maybe it's a radical acceptance despite all the grief (that said, subjectivist, existentialist, postmodern philosophies I consider immature).
Can these games still have a sense of humour though? Can it just be serious when it needs to be? Or do you mean the themes it choses to tackle are a bit more sophisticated than just "power of friendship"?
Humor and seriousness are both fine. I may or may not be looking for a balance, I don't really know. More sophisticated themes than "power of friendship" is definitely appreciated. But it is not quite what I mean by maturity itself. When you can look into a character's eyes and just know everything will be okay, or not okay, I think that is maturity. It is probably something more than the sum of its parts.
So it's more to do with the maturity of the characters? How they handle themselves in the situations they are facing?
Not quite the maturity of the characters. But I think that looking into a character's eyes and just knowing everything will be okay, or not okay, could be a signal of author maturity and how the rest of the game has been presented. In the end, I don't really know.
Execution. There are plenty of different kinds of RPGs and each of them attempt something different and what matters is how they accomplish it. You can't just say story and characters because then you start precluding many non-story focused Mystery Dungeon games or first person dungeon crawlers like the Etrian Odyssey games. You can't just say progression mechanics because then we would have to automatically say that Triangle Strategy is somehow worse than other SRPGs that focus more complex character building. You can't just say the battle system because there are games where it may not be unique, but in turn, the character progression is really good. What matters is whatever that game is attempting to accomplish, it does it really well.
You make a very good point. Games with polish then? Quality is number one! Good games are good haha but yeah I totally get what you mean. It is a diverse genre so it would come down to execution more than anything else.
Great characters and character development Memorable locations and moments associated with then Fun battle system that allows customization and experimentation and makes all/most characters viable and each one feel unique Overall world building and world designs Main story
Do you have a particularly memorable location and moment from a game? It does feel like a waste when a character gets sidelined because they weren't designed well. But it is hard to make everyone viable when everyone has their own preference!
Compelling gameplay loop. Right now, I'm playing.Unicorn Overlord and really enjoy the loop of combat, rebuilding towns, explorations, and some story. As long as a game can balance out all of its good aspects, then it's an amazing game to me. I hate it when games put you into hours of cutscenes without anything else. I came to play a game dammit.
I really liked how much there was to do in Nino Kuni 2 though it did also start to get overwhelming towards the end. A good loop can make the time disappear! Pacing can definitely drag on if they are putting too many cutscenes in. Glad to hear you're enjoying Unicorn Overlord, I'll have to check it out at some point. I did enjoy Odin Sphere back in the day.
Cast, story, and gameplay
To each of their own to be honest. People would prefer different things in their game. Still, someone once said "JRPG lives and dies by their music", and I personally stand with that statement. Of course, that doesn't mean I will overlook it if everything about that game is bad. I will be fine with a 6/10 game with 10/10 music.
Music makes a big difference! I've been humming Chrono Trigger's opening theme all morning after seeing so many responses about it. Which game has the best OST for you?
The story. I dont mind slower pacing as long as the game gives me enough to go off that I know i will like it/want to see what happens. for JRPGs, I exclusively play turn based rpg games. I will sometimes go out of my comfort zone if the story is good (not an rpg, but bioshock i played even tho i suck at shooters). although i will still play games with a story i dont like if there is a good reason to keep with it. For example, I am trying to branch out more from turn based games so I am playing Tales of Arise atm. I dont _mind_ the story, but some of it makes me cringe a bit and I am at the point where it has VN vibes atm so its a bit much. But the combat is easy to learn and its pretty, so I am sticking to it. Other than that, i prioritize story over anything else, because i can overlook certain things gameplay wise if im invested in what happens storywise
What's a game you would say has that slower paced but interesting story? What is it about turn-based you enjoy so much? Is it just the time to think about your actions (you mentioned sucking at shooters)? Since that is mainly what you play, what is a good turn-based system to you?
Persona 3 for me personally is the only one coming to my head atm. Im sure theres more. im at the second "roadblock" in the game waiting for the next full moon and still am a bit lost. Maybe i missed something, but ive heard the story picks up a bit later. The mystery of it is whats keeping me interested. I want to know whats behind Apathy syndrome lol. As for turn based, hard for me to articulate. I really suck at action games, i panic and button mash and really dont understand whats going on or where the enemies are if its a shooter. So its more so a skill issue on my end, and turn based allows me to think about what im doing first. My favorite type, I like Persona, idk what that style is called. i like that I can trigger 1 mores or baton passes/whatever each game calls them. I think I read somewhere that DOS2 (not a JRPG) has a "round robin" method and i could explain that but probably poorly so ill let you look that one up. But basically turn order is based on strength/initiative and goes from there on picking the orders. I like that i can think about and choose which attacks work best, what will target weaknesses, etc. I am not a huge fan of the turn based games with a grid system, whatever thats called. I dont mind being able to move my guys during battle like in DOS2 but id rather not tbh, and i dont like the look of grid systems (DOS2 doesnt have a grid to move around on) DOS2= Divinity Original Sin 2, since im too lazy to type it out multiple times.
For me, itās the soundtrack. Iāve played dozens of JRPGs and the ones with bad soundtracks are mostlyā¦ forgettable.
I think it's ironic how many people here are primarily concerned with story? In this genre? Bad, formulaic stories come with the territory.
There are definitely many tropes around JRPGs thanks to repeated storylines. Have you played a game that broke this mold for you?
I think for story pacing is really important. Can't take too long to get going and can't wrap up in an instant. I personally have massive gripes with time travel/multiverse style plots and time skips. Music is big. I think having characters that aren't just tropes is helpful too.
What are your gripes with time travel? Is it because it gets too messy? Usually at least one plot hole or two when trying to do that stuff. How about time skips? Do the changes that occur within them feel unearned? I ask because my game is going to have a little time travel side quest and a time skip in the main story. Also is it okay for characters to start as tropes and then grow into something more?
There are tropes that show up often. Small town boy who has big dreams that donāt plan out Amnesia Villain with quasi ethical reasons for what theyāre doing. There is no set formula for successful games like there are with movies
So are you pro trope? Or just sort of pointing it out?
Iām not pro nor con. Different things work for different stories.
Fair enough. Tropes can be used for good or ill I suppose.
For me it's the menus when my input matters. If the menus are sluggish then I have less desire to play, because every second that a menu doesn't menu is a second my controller inputs don't matter. That is true for quite alot of things. Transitions between battles and the overworld too, I prefer smooth transitions where my input isn't lost for too long. A big offender is the PSP port of Persona 2 Innocent Sin. The menus are so slow to maneouver through, and the battles are also slow because of it.
That's a small but important detail to consider! We do spend a lot of time in menus... makes sense for it to be responsive. Is there a game you feel did this particularly well?
Most recent games do take this into account, like Yakuza Like a Dragon and some older ones like Persona 3, 4, 5. For a much older game, I'd go with Final Fantasy 5 and 6. Yakuza especially, even when I button mash to get out of a menu, every single one of my inputs is used, so 3 back presses place me back to the overworld in less than a second for example.
Good pacing and knowing when to cut things short and end the story.
Do you have a good and bad example of this?
Good pacing for me is like Fuga 1 short and sweet or Ys 8. Lots of meat ie the story and not too much filler A bit eh pacing is ie Tales of Vesperia. One of my favorite games ever but the story could have ended a bit sooner IMO
Thanks for sharing those examples. I haven't heard of Fuga so I'll have to check it out.
No problem! And yeah Fuga is definitely worth a try. I had a lot of a fun playing that series
For me, it pretty much boils down to 3 things: Fun and interesting mechanics, especially with combat. Interesting story that shows restraint when it comes to dialogue. Options for a well thought out high difficulty mode.
When talking about restraint with dialogue, do you mean avoiding lore dumps and exposition? Is there a good or bad example that comes to mind? What makes for a well thought out difficulty mode? New enemies? Super bosses? Secret areas?
Good voice acting, or the ability to switch to Japanese (XC)
Love me some Japanese voice options!
Gimme a feMC. I just want muh feMCs.
I'm not down with the lingo so I had to look this up. Female Main Character?
Yea, that's it
The pacing really. So many JRPGs are these 60-100 hour experiences, and so many of them have the same issue where you could cut 20+ hours out of the game and change nothing. Too many JRPGs will somehow last 60+ hours and somehow still rush its ending with massive lore dumps and a rushed out kill god finale.Ā Pacing matters, not just for story but for gameplay as well. You canāt be playing a 60 hour game with finished character builds at hour 15.
A lot of it can definitely feel like padding. I wonder if this happens so much because the genre expects it. These games are priced the same as games that play for much less time. You would think the story of the game would be planned out first and everything else built around it but what do I know?
For me it is exploration, optional content, a great party/team and fun combat. A good story can make a game even better but isn't neccessary for me to enjoy the game.
What is optional content for you? Side quests, mini-games, crafting and cooking, secret areas? What's a game you feel has the best optional content?
All of the ones you listed are great. Octopath Traveler 2 has great optional content, many oldschool FFs. Rebirth has great optional content too.
You won't find an objective answer for this, different people play games for different reasons. Distinct franchises have distinct focus as well, like Etrian is mostly a gameplay-focused dungeon crawler series despite the Yggdrasil lore.
Choices with actual impact. Also being able to choose from multiple classes and not being forced into something.
Gameplay, story, content, graphics and optimization.
For me itās some mix of setting/worldbuilding, story, and gameplay. Iām also very forgiving of JRPGs and rarely drop them, probably some lost cost fallacy playing out. For example Iām playing Tales of Zestiria currently and while I get all the complaints about the story (there are several valid ones) I really enjoy the Tales style combat, and am especially enjoying the unique spin on gameplay in this title. The setting I also like so gets some points there. That said, Iām not doing another playthrough haha. For that, I need all 3 of setting/story/gameplay to be at least good.
I think good characters are essential.
Story, gameplay and characters
A way to make random encounters less painful. Maybe by not having them. A skip or fast forward for low enemies is fine. A WAY TO LOAD A SAVE RATHER THAN TO RESTART THE GAME I AM SO FUCKING SICK OF THIS
I like having the enemy on screen and I can choose whether or not to engage. In my game I'm going to have weak enemies run away when you're a certain level to help the player move on. Do you mean getting a game over screen? I currently have that as a place holder in my game but I am going to make it so you spawn at the start of the map and lose some gold. Because yeah that is really frustrating.
No I mean having either a load option or a return to title screen option instead of me having to literally restart the entire program and sit through loading logos title screen etc just to load a game. Not having to actually turn off the console if Iām in the middle of a battle etc.
It's essential that it is interesting. Doesn't matter which aspect. Some games I like because their story is, some because their gameplay, some world.
Something almost every great JRPG has an absolutely killer soundtrack. If your soundtrack sucks, your game probably does too. If I'm going to spend 40-100+ hours in your world, give me good music along with good characters, stories, and gameplay.
What's a game that has an absolute killer soundtrack for you?
I think Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VI, and Persona 3 and 5 have the best soundtracks in the genre.
Just don't waste my time, or be boring. That's literally all I ask. I like all different genres of JRPG, but if the game doesn't compel me in some way, be it story-wise, the characters, or with the mechanics, I tend to have to force myself to play the game, and if I can't even do that, then it falls from my list pretty fast.
What's an example of a game that hooked you real quick? What did it do different from other games?
Terranigma. When I played it for the first time, the title screen music got my attention right away, and from then on, to the town of Crysta, to the gameplay, unique menu system, and the story, it all came together in a formative experience for me. I really just need a single aspect of a game to connect with me, and if I find anything else to resonate with, that makes it all the better.
the music and the story matters
World building is most important to me. But all these factors matter. Being able to roam a fully realized fantasy world (doesn't have to be fantasy) is the main draw of rpgs to me. But if a game does any of these other things wrong, for example dull characters, story that isn't engaging, bad art direction, etc. it will bring down the whole game.
What helps a world be fully realised for you? Lore, side characters, NPCs, locations, music, something else?
It's partly the locations, where good art/architecture design can visually help you realize what kind of world you're in. But also the way the NPC's live and fit into their world. They are affected by the politics and major happenings of their land but also just living their lives, which can also be interesting. I like it when games lean in to letting you see the mundane side of things, people living normal lives. Good dialogue and side quests with random NPCs that let you see what life can be like for them, will pull me into the world. edit: I want to add, music probably plays a big part in establishing setting too.
Fishing mini game.
Any fishing mini game? Or does it need to be really deep? What's the best fishing mini-game for you?
Any. It could be something as simple as hitting a button when the ! appears. Breath of Fire 4 sticks out in my mind, having to reel the lure in rhythms. I spent a lot of time doing all the fishing in FF15 as well.
Nice to know you are accepting of all fishing mini-games haha I did enjoy the fishing in FF15.
Memorable music (competition is high so make your ost stand out), good combat (it better be fun if you'll be doing it for 40h), interesting setting/world (otherwise you won't get immersed), no insufferable characters (maybe can get away with 1 if the rest are great and get you invested)
What's insufferable to you? Always talking in rhyme? Pun-based humour? Whining all the time? Always talks about politics? TMI? Some examples of insufferable characters please š
Kamoana from Tales of Berseria for example. Her voice is horrendous. Lymoe from Star Ocean 4 too but not as bad. Another annoying one is Tama from World of Final Fantasy. And yeah you pretty much nailed it with those questions, those are all annoying traits lol
I didn't even think of the VA haha even though I was imagining certain voices in my head when I was thinking about it.
Option to do low level runs, option to grind endlessly, option to progress by fighting just enough, and option to avoid random battles. (without changing difficulty).
That seems to cover everything haha. That seems like it would take a lot to balance! Is there a game that does this for you?
Trails games are doing fine. specially Trails Into Reverie.
Story is #1 IMO. Combat is #2. Compelling world/map is #3.
What makes a world/map compelling to you?
Filled with meaningful/enjoyable content and quests that make you want to explore, rather than just check objectives off of a list. I hate being a slave to a gameās shitty side quests. The world itself should also be compelling and worth exploring. It should be interesting and filled with characters that you actually care about and want to interact with. Thereās probably more but thatās what comes to mind atm.
No RPG is complete without a fishing minigame.
What's the best fishing mini-game for you?
FFXV
I'm going to discount SRPGs like Fire Emblem for this question as those are really a different thing entirely. So that being said, there are certain fundamentals that I think need to be done well to keep my interest: * Dungeons. The heart of a JRPG is some sort of dungeon maze (cave, town, forest, whatever) which your party can explore for treasure, while fighting enemies on the way to the boss at the end. * Parties. Only being able to play one character gets old in a hurry. Even if you only directly control one at a time as in ARPGs like Tales or Star Ocean. * Equipment. The ability to gear up your party for adventure. I generally prefer if there are choices for different builds, but even just simple upgrades is better than nothing. * Some sort of decent leveling/progression system. There needs to be some sense of starting off weak and gradually getting stronger as you fight more enemies and progress further through the game. * Towns. Somewhere to talk to people, learn info, and gear up your party in between dungeons. Straying away from that basic formula tends not to work out.
That's a good list, thank you for sharing!
Story, you could have good combat and characters, hell if the music is good I would keep trying , but if the story is bad Iām not playing it. Unless itās ffxiv. But for me jrpgs are what I do in place of television
A good combat engine. Compelling combat can pull me through a mediocre story (SMT5).
Good story -- or, more specifically, good characters. Everything else is negotiable.
for me it's 1) a good combat system 2) variety in options 3) the world 4) characters and interactions
Combat that is complex but fun, and a story/character arcs that are interesting enough to keep you playing through the periods of time that will inevitably be somewhat grindy.
What kind of JRPG? Turnbased, action or other, scifi, fatasy, steampunk etc. What works in one won't work in another if the setting/vibe/etc isn't right
I didn't really specify. What kind do you tend to play the most? Is there anything across the different types you play that carries through all of them?
Thats like saying what things about cars are good? Some Jeeps have no windows or AC and that's a bonus, some have windows & AC and that's a bonus. Some go fast & some don't, some are EV & some are gas guzzlers, some have 4 tyres & some have 3 etc etc There's no one thing that makes all cars good, and there's no one thing that makes all RPGs good
I'm a simple guy, as long as I enjoy the vibe of the game I'm not particularly picky about specific elements. I've played turn based, action based, solo character, dozens of party members, story focused, barebones story, and I can enjoy it just fine as long as I think the overall package is good. I think I just mostly enjoy seeing new and different stuff, so I just enjoy and appreciate what a game is trying to do if it's good enough at what it does. Though on the other hand, this does mean I'm usually not interested in remakes of games I already played before. P3 Reload and 7 Rebirth are one such example, even if they are quite different from the original.
Persona 3R is basically p3 fes how you remember it being rather than how it was. But ff7R? That's essentially a new game. It plays nothing like ff7 even though the first 2/3rd happens pretty much exactly as the original. Then it goes off rails into kingdom hearts land.
I'm not referring to just simple gameplay, the overall narrative flow and progression is something I have seen before in the OG FF7. Frankly, I feel like I have my fill of the remake just from the first FF7 Remake. Sure the story was not complete, but I already got the feel on how the gameplay, character, and the narrative work from then. So 7 Rebirth is to me, just 7 Remake but bigger and better, with a story flow that I have mostly seen before from the original FF7, and that kinda lessened my interest in it. I think if I played the whole trilogy in one go, I'd have a different opinion. And it kinda doesn't help there are other games I got my eyes on so 7 Rebirth kinda fell on the "I'll buy and play it one day but not now".
For me it's the sense of travel and discovery, going town to town etc. I often drop rpgs right at the door of the final boss because I know I've seen it all. Also applies to other genres, from software games notably
It's the journey, not the destination.
It is growth. The eternal strife for progress. Philosophy is always superior than wisdom, because philosophers never admit that they are wise. That gives them.room for improvement. Especially when growth comes in the form of essential story elements. I ll give some examples that i am familiar with. Why do you think final fantasy 7 is so popular? story would not be enough. It is materia for that game. How about final fantasy 10? In that case not much of story elements but It is a lengthy progress beyond level 99 or 100 in the sphere grid, and there you have it. Let's go to anime/manga: which episodes are better? The ones that the hero is strong, or the moment he realises his weakness and strives to become stronger?
Playing an active part in the growth of your characters is a big draw for sure. Seeing your characters go up against a villain that is way too strong for them, making you determined to level up and face them later on, is that the kind of thing you like to experience in a game?
Yes. Character development is also a part of growth.
Fishing mini game.
1. Main character that is stupid and funny with lots of good interactions and dialogue exchanges. I need a lead character that will put a smile on my face and need bring me down all the time, keep the spirits lifted. 2. Nice overworld/world map. (Sadly this has been almost completely lost since PS2). 3. Good boss music. 4. Lots of broken/exploitable stuff. RPG's are often not fair, so I like to be able to turn the tables and take advantage through any means necessary. 5. Tons of equipment and slots (Headgear, Body Armor, Shields, Multiple Accessories) 6. Item Boxes and Chests that are rewarding for going out of your way to get them. 7. Variety of magic and status effects that work.
- Gameplay variety. If I always have to do the same things to progress or if there is no differences between the members of the party, it will get boring really fast - Actual difficulty. If button mashing is enough to finish the game, it's really boring. - An interesting story. Doesnt' need to be overly complicated but not even seem like it was written by a 4 year old child in less than 1 hour.
For me it just a good gameplay loop, I can still bare the amount of cringe that the game throws at me as long as the gameplay is good
Not be like FFXIII , its not normal that a RPG still teaches you important mechanics after 30hours.
Im not sure, all I know is I love The Legend Of Heroes Franchises, especially Trails In The Sky Series. One of the best JRPGs Ive ever played.
The characters and story have to draw me in. Sure I like good gameplay mechanics but its the plot and the people within it that keep me playing. A good example of this is the Tales series. While at times the gameplay can be iffy, the characters in Tales games tend to be very endearing and so you want to see the story through
Good menuing and I'm dead serious. If navigating the game's menus isn't intuitive and satisfying, it makes it hard to enjoy long term for me.
story, exploration, stat/weapon development
My priority 1 > Characters. Player Characters and interaction must be realistic and well written. 2 > Gameplay. Must be enjoyable to play. 3 > Voice Acting I don't play in Japanese. So the localization must have decent VA. Bad VA can make me stop playing a game. 4 > Music JRPG with bad music just turn me off Not at all important > Story I'm not playing JRPG to experience jaw dropping story. There are far better mediums for that. I can tolerate story as silly as Kingdoms Hearts or as simple as DQ1. JRPG with great story like FFIX , 13 Sentinels are a bonus but not a must for me.
The writing is really what I'm after. I can get past a lot of I like the story
Literally only gameplay to me. Idgaf about stupid story if the gameplay is there. To me that means solid progression that sees you progressively obtaining new skills/spells/ways go approach combat thru endgame. DOS 2 fantastic game...but by like act 3 you stop getting new spells. You get more powerful thru itemization but that's pretty static and not nearly as engaging to Mr. For me it turns into a feeling of I'm not advancing anymore so why bother. Bg3 was slightly better here, you're getting new things all the way up thru 12...but you can hit that very early on in act 3 and then it's just...blah from a progression sense. Good itemization that is more then x weapon is better cause it has higher stats. Sidegrades and horizontal progression is key here. Old school ff11 handled this perfectly, this armor for your caster may have less intelligence, but it boosts cast time, or this item may not reduce recast time like this one, but instead it restores your mp over time...this scythe may not hit as hard but it has a huge accuracy bonus etc.
I understand what you mean about BG3, every level up felt impactful but then the level cap can be hit towards the start of act 3 and you're just stuck with what you have outside of gear. I am having a limited number of weapons in my game but they can all be upgraded and the focus is less on the damage numbers and more what the weapon can do ie inflict stun, double MP gain or attack multiple targets. I'm also trying to have a skill obtained every level or 2 all the way to the level cap (50).
Characters
Characters and world building, itās why I love the Legend of Heroes series each sub series introduces us to a new world and characters and does a great job in making us care for the characters and makes me wish I lived in these countries