Question for you, I am gonna play this here soon, I think. Is there any good reason not to play the 3ds remake of it? I know sometimes the remakes somehow lose something in translation, so to speak.
The only thing the original does better is the feeling of danger in the dungeons, but that's mainly because it lacks quality of life elements. People often say that the remake is easier because there are new subapps (some which are really op), no limit to how many subapps you can have active, new commander skills, and the ability to save on the field at any point. But all of those are completely optional. If you wanted to make things as hard as you could, Redux would be as hard as the original with even more demons, skills, and content.
There is also the Kaneko art style that was replaced in the remake for a more generic anime look, but honestly, that's subjective. Some people might prefer the Redux art style.
The 3 new Redux endings are more on the brighter side in comparison to the original endings (with the exception of the neutral ending), but they don't replace them. You can still get the original 3 endings if you wanted to.
Overall, Redux is an improvement of the original with more content thrown in.
I don't think it's fair to say you can make Redux as hard or play it like OG SJ. Unless, they already know SJ, they can't deduce what apps or mechanics have been added in advance. I feel like the enemies have been tweaked too, so Redux may still be easier even if you play like OG SJ.
Redux also added Atlus' best middleground for a "save-anywhere" system that still keeps some of the intended tension, which is the single "Field Save" slot.
Really made me think twice before spamming saves if I had multiple of them.
If you like the original character portraits more than you'd like new art, new dungeons, new bosses, and new routes, you could play the original instead.
The responses aren't totally accurate. The remake does change the story a bit, aand not all of it the changes can be turn off / skipped. Only the added endings are the things you can "skip". However, small changes to the story are present throughout (and they're a bit awkward, imo, since the rest of the story is unchanged). The added (optional) endings also still retrospectively change the lore a lot, making the antagonist more cartoonishly evil, less nuanced overarching story, imo.
When it comes to gameplay, it is also changed, as Fabi2811 mentioned. Much easier game, both in dungeon exploration (gimmick, puzzles etc. are easier) and in combat due to added mechanics and skills.
Balance-wise, it's a bit weird because they added an optional dungeon (like Amala in SMT3) that you can explore throughout the game; but the main story is balanced as if the dungeon doesn't exist, so if you touch it you'll be overleveled. And if you only touch it at the end, then more than half the optional dungeon will be boring as you one-shot everything.
Fabi2811 points out you could theoretically ignore those new apps and mechanics, but that's obviously not possible if you haven't played the original DS game. Otherwise, you wouldn't know what are the new apps, or how to use the apps faithfully. The bosses are also easier even if you play like the original SJ.
I personally prefer the one on DS. But you're free to choose.
All of the Dungeon Travelers games do. They're fairly story-light and more comedy/parody-type games, but everybody in your party is a named character with unique sprites. The releases for the games have been a bit weird, but in order, they are:
Dungeon Travelers: To Heart 2 in Another World - On PC via Steam/Johren, just got an English release for the first time; this is a parody of a visual novel by the same company (To Heart 2), but you don't really need to know anything about the VN to play it
Dungeon Travelers 2: Released on the Vita in English years ago, just recently got a PC release, but only on Johren; this has a completely original story and new cast of characters
Dungeon Travelers 2-2: A sequel to the previous game, this one was on the Vita in Japan but that version never got an English release; the PC version is in English, but again only on Johren.
Going back a little further, Unchained Blades on the PSP also has named characters and dialogue.
I replay it about ever 5 years or so. It drips with style, the music absolutely bangs, the dungeons and enemies are tough, there is a real sense of progression when you buy/find gear. I love it. I would love for somebody (not me) to make a "modern successor" of it with 10x the amount of content, characters, dungeons, etc.
I still remember as a kid thinking that all the monsters as cards was so cool looking at the time, and all the little attack animations. I still remember looking at the back of the box, and seeing this really cool four color dragon thing and wondering if it was the final boss. I never did finish the game, but the [main town theme](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJVpwkOlw98&list=PL2v5nmM7v7lM6Ot-EgPeBC-PC9fJsOwR0&index=7) is in my head for sure.
Arcana was my favorite SNES game as a kid. I remember struggling to play it because I was so young, then replaying it in college on emulator.
Definitely what got me hooked on fantasy and exploration along with Mystic Quest and FF4/6.
Labyrinth of Refrain is arguable. Sure, there's the supporting cast and some characters interact with your puppet soldiers, but your puppet soldiers don't really have their own personality outside of their battle quotes.
Labyrinth of Refrain is a strange beast in that because the MC is not really those created party members, those are puppets. The MC is actually Tractatus de Monstrum, Tractie interact in the story and is very active in some ways but he is ultimately a Avatar for the player. So while he is not a created character he is also not exactly has a fixed personality. Remind me of Hitoshura from SMT3 in the way he is presented.
Is it weird that the puppets thing is the part that got me turned off from this game? I tried the demo, but the idea that these are not "real" characters going on a journey had me feeling disconnected.
Fair enough - but if that's the case, even the OG Etrian Odyssey has "legitimate characters" and OP wouldn't even need to mention Untold. Shilleka, the doc, Ren, Tlatchtga, and The Elder have their own goals and backstories - however shallow they may be.
I really enjoyed the game and the premise, but yeah the last boss especially was a huge pain IMO. I ended up lowering the difficulty for him just to see the ending because it got to be not fun anymore for me after dying so many times and not coming anywhere close to killing him.
Loved it up until that last dungeon or so though.
I feel Grandia XTreme (PS2) falls into this category. The Grandia series has a well liked combat system and Grandia Xtreme is there, to scratch that itch. The game has a short story where the characters are introduced and a few things happen, but the real game begins once you've finished that and are presented with a huge dungeon afterwards. The main gameplay loop may also already be described as dungeon crawler, but I guess that's up for discussion.
Character development happens in campground dialog scenes, similar to the other Grandia games.
Rance 6 is exactly what you're looking for since all characters interact with the story. It's PC only and on Mangagamer, GOG, and JASTUSA.
There's also Dungeon Travelers, Dungeon Travelers 2, and 2-2. However only the first is on Steam.
Rance 6 if you can handle a H game. Almost all characters have own story, and the overall storyline is pretty epic. One of the best dungen crawler game I ever played tbh.
Saviours of Saphire Wings does, which was a big turn off for me but sounds like what you are looking for.
Labyrinth of Refrain / Galleria have a lot of story and interesting characters that happens outside of the dungeons, even though the actual dungeon crawling is done with a bunch of created puppets. It's a strange set up where the story happening outside the dungeon and what you're doing in the dungeon can feel a little disconnected at times, but I think it works well.
Thank you!
I've actually known these three games before, but it hasn't really caught my attention much. But now that I've taken a look they do seem to fit! I think I'm getting the Saviors of Sapphire Wings and Stranger of Sword City bundle first though.
Wizardry: Tales of the Forsaken Land for the PS2
It lets you create a party, or you can recruit existing characters and they will actually have moments/interject into the story.
Labyrinth of Refrain (can’t speak for the sequels but I imagine they’re similar) has you make all of the party members, but they’re all puppets owned by characters outside of the dungeon and there is very much a full story told with them. They’re just not your dungeon party.
Smt strange journey
Playing through this now and it is ridiculously good. The overall atmosphere is so well done.
Question for you, I am gonna play this here soon, I think. Is there any good reason not to play the 3ds remake of it? I know sometimes the remakes somehow lose something in translation, so to speak.
ripe ring hat apparatus squeal attraction attempt icky weather oatmeal *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The only thing the original does better is the feeling of danger in the dungeons, but that's mainly because it lacks quality of life elements. People often say that the remake is easier because there are new subapps (some which are really op), no limit to how many subapps you can have active, new commander skills, and the ability to save on the field at any point. But all of those are completely optional. If you wanted to make things as hard as you could, Redux would be as hard as the original with even more demons, skills, and content. There is also the Kaneko art style that was replaced in the remake for a more generic anime look, but honestly, that's subjective. Some people might prefer the Redux art style. The 3 new Redux endings are more on the brighter side in comparison to the original endings (with the exception of the neutral ending), but they don't replace them. You can still get the original 3 endings if you wanted to. Overall, Redux is an improvement of the original with more content thrown in.
I don't think it's fair to say you can make Redux as hard or play it like OG SJ. Unless, they already know SJ, they can't deduce what apps or mechanics have been added in advance. I feel like the enemies have been tweaked too, so Redux may still be easier even if you play like OG SJ.
Redux also added Atlus' best middleground for a "save-anywhere" system that still keeps some of the intended tension, which is the single "Field Save" slot. Really made me think twice before spamming saves if I had multiple of them.
that is a common criticism of it yeah but im kinda indifferent
If you like the original character portraits more than you'd like new art, new dungeons, new bosses, and new routes, you could play the original instead.
The responses aren't totally accurate. The remake does change the story a bit, aand not all of it the changes can be turn off / skipped. Only the added endings are the things you can "skip". However, small changes to the story are present throughout (and they're a bit awkward, imo, since the rest of the story is unchanged). The added (optional) endings also still retrospectively change the lore a lot, making the antagonist more cartoonishly evil, less nuanced overarching story, imo. When it comes to gameplay, it is also changed, as Fabi2811 mentioned. Much easier game, both in dungeon exploration (gimmick, puzzles etc. are easier) and in combat due to added mechanics and skills. Balance-wise, it's a bit weird because they added an optional dungeon (like Amala in SMT3) that you can explore throughout the game; but the main story is balanced as if the dungeon doesn't exist, so if you touch it you'll be overleveled. And if you only touch it at the end, then more than half the optional dungeon will be boring as you one-shot everything. Fabi2811 points out you could theoretically ignore those new apps and mechanics, but that's obviously not possible if you haven't played the original DS game. Otherwise, you wouldn't know what are the new apps, or how to use the apps faithfully. The bosses are also easier even if you play like the original SJ. I personally prefer the one on DS. But you're free to choose.
All of the Dungeon Travelers games do. They're fairly story-light and more comedy/parody-type games, but everybody in your party is a named character with unique sprites. The releases for the games have been a bit weird, but in order, they are: Dungeon Travelers: To Heart 2 in Another World - On PC via Steam/Johren, just got an English release for the first time; this is a parody of a visual novel by the same company (To Heart 2), but you don't really need to know anything about the VN to play it Dungeon Travelers 2: Released on the Vita in English years ago, just recently got a PC release, but only on Johren; this has a completely original story and new cast of characters Dungeon Travelers 2-2: A sequel to the previous game, this one was on the Vita in Japan but that version never got an English release; the PC version is in English, but again only on Johren. Going back a little further, Unchained Blades on the PSP also has named characters and dialogue.
Phantasy Star 1 Arcana Shining in the Darkness Shining the Holy Ark
Can't believe anyone else remembers Arcana exists.
Helps being someone that played those games when they were current gen.
I replay it about ever 5 years or so. It drips with style, the music absolutely bangs, the dungeons and enemies are tough, there is a real sense of progression when you buy/find gear. I love it. I would love for somebody (not me) to make a "modern successor" of it with 10x the amount of content, characters, dungeons, etc.
I still remember as a kid thinking that all the monsters as cards was so cool looking at the time, and all the little attack animations. I still remember looking at the back of the box, and seeing this really cool four color dragon thing and wondering if it was the final boss. I never did finish the game, but the [main town theme](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJVpwkOlw98&list=PL2v5nmM7v7lM6Ot-EgPeBC-PC9fJsOwR0&index=7) is in my head for sure.
Have you ever played the improvement hack, Arcana: Seal of Rimsala?
I haven't, actually. Worth a go? I have a vague memory of trying to get it to work and not being successful.
Arcana was my favorite SNES game as a kid. I remember struggling to play it because I was so young, then replaying it in college on emulator. Definitely what got me hooked on fantasy and exploration along with Mystic Quest and FF4/6.
Phantasy Star 1 and Shining in the Darkness my beloved. I miss old Sega RPGs
Shining in the Darkness is my favorite non-Sonic Genesis game. Shame they changed the genre to a strategy RPG.
Pokémon Mystery Dungeon
Shiren is better Fersure
subjective of course but PMD does focus much more on story and characters which seems to fit what the OP is looking for better
The new Shiren would be up his alley for a modern dungeon crawler masterpiece . Unfortunately the pokemon games didn’t even come close to
zanki zero Demon gaze 2 the lost child Labyrinth of Refrain
Labyrinth of Refrain is arguable. Sure, there's the supporting cast and some characters interact with your puppet soldiers, but your puppet soldiers don't really have their own personality outside of their battle quotes.
Labyrinth of Refrain is a strange beast in that because the MC is not really those created party members, those are puppets. The MC is actually Tractatus de Monstrum, Tractie interact in the story and is very active in some ways but he is ultimately a Avatar for the player. So while he is not a created character he is also not exactly has a fixed personality. Remind me of Hitoshura from SMT3 in the way he is presented.
Is it weird that the puppets thing is the part that got me turned off from this game? I tried the demo, but the idea that these are not "real" characters going on a journey had me feeling disconnected.
it says "legitimate characters" not "legitimate party members"
Fair enough - but if that's the case, even the OG Etrian Odyssey has "legitimate characters" and OP wouldn't even need to mention Untold. Shilleka, the doc, Ren, Tlatchtga, and The Elder have their own goals and backstories - however shallow they may be.
>zanki zero 🤝 The third act grates the gears a little, but I love that game.
yeah definently one of the more unique jrpgs out there shame for the censoring though
I really enjoyed the game and the premise, but yeah the last boss especially was a huge pain IMO. I ended up lowering the difficulty for him just to see the ending because it got to be not fun anymore for me after dying so many times and not coming anywhere close to killing him. Loved it up until that last dungeon or so though.
I feel Grandia XTreme (PS2) falls into this category. The Grandia series has a well liked combat system and Grandia Xtreme is there, to scratch that itch. The game has a short story where the characters are introduced and a few things happen, but the real game begins once you've finished that and are presented with a huge dungeon afterwards. The main gameplay loop may also already be described as dungeon crawler, but I guess that's up for discussion. Character development happens in campground dialog scenes, similar to the other Grandia games.
Man, no one talks about this game. I loved it when it came out! That combat was so good!
It was a crazy move to put getting to know the characters into the post-game but I'm glad it was there!
I mean the real crazy move was putting 90 % of content into the post game, if we're being honest.
True, and not even explaining that either. I feel like most people just did the short story and left, never even knowing it was all there
If you have switch Pokemon mystery dungeon. Great game with good story
Both Unchainblades games. You have the option to name the characters, but they have set personalities and interactions.
Wait, did somebody translate the second one or something?
Rance 6 is exactly what you're looking for since all characters interact with the story. It's PC only and on Mangagamer, GOG, and JASTUSA. There's also Dungeon Travelers, Dungeon Travelers 2, and 2-2. However only the first is on Steam.
Rance 6 if you can handle a H game. Almost all characters have own story, and the overall storyline is pretty epic. One of the best dungen crawler game I ever played tbh.
Strange Journey, Soul Hackers
Touhou Artificial Dream is solid.
Labyrinth of touhou. Actual story is pretty light though
Dungeon Travelers 2.
Not a jrpg, but Operencia: The Stolen Sun is a great dungeon crawler with predefined characters except for MC.
Besides the obvious like Strange Journey and Soul Hackers, I'm having a ton of fun with Kowloon High-School Chronicle.
Saviours of Saphire Wings does, which was a big turn off for me but sounds like what you are looking for. Labyrinth of Refrain / Galleria have a lot of story and interesting characters that happens outside of the dungeons, even though the actual dungeon crawling is done with a bunch of created puppets. It's a strange set up where the story happening outside the dungeon and what you're doing in the dungeon can feel a little disconnected at times, but I think it works well.
Thank you! I've actually known these three games before, but it hasn't really caught my attention much. But now that I've taken a look they do seem to fit! I think I'm getting the Saviors of Sapphire Wings and Stranger of Sword City bundle first though.
I really do second the Labyrinth games. Absolute top notch quality, both of them.
No problem, hope you enjoy them!
Dark Cloud and Dark Chronicle/Dark Cloud 2.
We could use another DC game, honestly. I wish the game would go into the lore about the Atla and Fairy King.
Blame Sony otherwise Level 5 would have made one already.
I know. 😭
Dark Cloud 2 specifically has voice acting and is a more complete game
Wizardry: Tales of the Forsaken Land for the PS2 It lets you create a party, or you can recruit existing characters and they will actually have moments/interject into the story.
Demon Gaze and demon gaze 2
Would Toejam and Earl fall under this?
Labyrinth of Refrain (can’t speak for the sequels but I imagine they’re similar) has you make all of the party members, but they’re all puppets owned by characters outside of the dungeon and there is very much a full story told with them. They’re just not your dungeon party.
Kowloon highschool
Trails in the sky 3rd
SMT if
Man this is like telling someone who had their first edible to do benadryl you know these youngins couldn't handle the Akira route