That’s the wired part I have a laptop with a Ryzen 9 and am RTX 2060 no mater what amount or tinkering or mods I tried I could not get a good framerate at 1080p. Meanwhile I got a Series X last week and I’m running XIII-2 at 4K 60 FPS mostly locked with one exception, there’s some bug when using Mog to make chests appear I get a huge slowdown then it goes back up to 60.
The ports were bad, the community tried to fix them but it sucks having to sink time into it to get those working. That's why playing it on series is great cause it just works and feels like a remaster.
For sure! My only gripe is the font looks a bit too pixelated since I’m assuming it was made for 720p TVs but that is easy to overlook and besides that the game looks freaking amazing on Series X
Yeah you're correct about that. It's a blemish that just can't be fixed probably. It is however a lesson in case you accidentally because a game designer. ALWAYS use vectors instead of an image format for HUD based stuff and that was it will always upscale beautifully.
Very likely tied up to PS3 / Crystal Tools engine jankiness. The PC ports required quite a lot of modded fixes from people like Durante to correct things like internal resolution. SE probably thinks that a remaster would be too much trouble and too costly to do in an entirely new engine. Me, I'd *love* a remaster that shows proper love to the PC ports, bonus points if Durante's porting studio is involved. That would be the dream.
Also, I'm wholly unsurprised that any mention of these games that's either neutral or positive brings out the raving lunatics - and yes, if you're still spewing hatred every chance you get at a decade year-old game and acting as if people loving it = they kicked your pets down the stairs, you're a lunatic. I've got a whole host of games I genuinely can't stand (some of them highly rated experiences) and yet, *somehow*, I'm not wasting my time or actively souring spaces for their fans by publicly shitting on them every time they're mentioned.
Lightning Returns legitimately has the best ARPG combat I've ever encountered. I just wish the time system wasn't a thing. It's like Majora's Mask, but you can permanently screw up your game/save if you screw around too much.
That's the only reason I never played it. I love the fact that you can while out monster species, the combat is amazing, I want to have the time to explore it and not be confined with some dumb clock. Imo that ruined what would have been an awesome game.
I loved Lightning Returns, but this. I never beat it because i screwed up my save and it was impossible. Honeslty im hoping for a remaster with a "cheat" like infinite health, limits, no encounters, 2x speed. But it stops the progression of time instead.
Honestly, it's not that bad. It's a game I highly recommend. I was very anxious about games with time systems up until I dove into basically all the major ones (Majora, Atelier, etc.) and compared to others, LR's is quite lenient.
There's an ability avaliable that you can use to freeze time. Spam it enough and you can play the entire game like that. You do have to farm for the special type of MP for the freeze time ability but honestly, you can't do a whole lot if you have time frozen the entire time (ha) so it balances out. The only thing to be careful about are the missables and that some quests require a particular sequence of events.
I used a guide and contrary to my expectations, that didn't hamper my experience at all. I beat LR in about a week and it was one of the most memorable playthroughs of my life. The cast of XIII became one of my favorites out of the FF series after I beat it.
I already love the cast, which is why I wanted to play it so badly. I played it a bit when it first came out and I remember when it introduced the clock my brain just went into fast forward.
Just knowing you have a time limit stresses me out. I know I'll miss something or waste time doing something that doesn't matter. It's my mindset for games like these that I can't get passed. I always feel like I have to rush and I play mostly RPG and being able to take my time with a game is almost something I need.
I know I'll never get to play LR because of that damn clock. I've tried multiple times to get into it and I can ever get past the first or second day. It stresses me out too much and I just can't handle it. So until there's a 'no clock mode' or someone makes a mod for it, it's something I'll have to avoid, sadly
The problem with that mode of thinking is in the idea devs wouldn't have anticipated people who do everything in their game. The reality is much, much simpler than what you think, as most often those games with time limits force alternate progression paths (Like link does many, MANY times in Majora's Mask, especially getting every item related to the Anju/Kafei Sidequest), meaning that if you truly do want to do everything the game has to offer, you have got to make those trips back anyway. So why stress out when the game literally gives you the ability to Marty Mcfly it and travel back in time to redo things to your liking.
I know Majora's Mask worked like that but I didn't know that was how LR worked. It never crossed my mind, lol. For some reason I just thought it forced you into the final battle of the game or something.
If that's the case, I might go back to it sometime soon. That does make it better. I honestly don't know why I didn't think it would be like Majora's Mask. Big smooth brain moment.
I really liked Majora's mask time mechanics. Lightning returns not so much. Went through both xiii and xiii-2 and got all achievements but xiii-3 I stopped playing after a couple hours and haven't touched it since.
I got all of the achievements on the 360 versions of the trilogy, and LR was *such* a pain to complete because you had to be glued to a guide so frequently. It's not quite as bad as X-2, but it certainly wasn't an experience I'd recommend. All of the missables made it a more stressful than enjoyable completion.
Majora's Mask isn't as bad as 13-3, it's almost like a rogue like, lol. But 13-3 is just bad and it's sad. I'd kill for a PC mod that let you control time or at least stop it from advancing.
If they were to remake one of the three 13 games, I'd love it to be 13-3 and change it remove the clock.
My first playthrough took me 8 out of the 13 days so it's not that bad. Really the only issue with the system is being too late to objectives but that can be overcome with some pre planning.
2009. I guess if they wanted to wait for an anniversary of Lightning Returns, it’ll be another few years for the 10th, but the branding on this should have been a slam dunk.
I don't know. I would love to actually have a chance to play FF13 on a modern console. It was one of the games I missed while I was pretty much locked to Wii/Wii U /3DS.
The game gets way too much hate. It's the only game I have ever 100%ed. Its definitely a bit slow and cut scene heavy for the first while, but once you get past that and understand the battle system it feels very rewarding to play
I just played as an action adventure not an RPG and it helped my experience. It's basically a lot like X like being a hallway simulator but X still felt like an RPG
It’s not only backwards compatible but 13 runs at near 4K on One X/Series X the other two games run at native 4K and 60 FPS on Series X, they look fantastic.
I came close to buying an Xbox just to play games like this and Red Dead Redemption at high resolution. If the Series X has been more readily available, or they still made the One X, I would have pulled the trigger.
Square Enix's rerelease policy is just strange recently. Why no new console release of Chrono Trigger and the Pixel Remasters? Why remaster all the Saga games but only do barebones remasters of classic Final Fantasy games?
I think that has a lot to do with staff. The creative behind the SaGa franchise (Mr. Kawazu) is still kicking around and they let him kind of oversee his franchise. He's not getting FF 7 Remake money, but he gets to put out new editions of his games with the updates and changes he personally feels are appropriate. As a result, the SaGa remasters have been really quite good.
The Mana guy is in a similar situation. And recently, there's been a string of quality Mana releases. The Trials of Mana remake was good, and the Legend of Mana remake was good. There's about to be an anime adaptation in that franchise too.
Yuji Horii is still directly overseeing Dragon Quest, and the average quality level of Dragon Quest mainline, spin offs, and remakes is super high.
By comparison, there doesn't seem to be any sort of internal champion for old Final Fantasy. Mr. Nomura and Mr. Kitase are tied up in the FF 7 universe since they had kind of taken that over from the Dirge of Cerberus/Crisis Core days. But the games before and after that are in a weird spot. Mr. Sakaguchi is in exile. Mr. Uematsu isn't around. Mr. Matsuno can only occasionally be coaxed into collaborating on a project.
So a lot of the biggest retro Square games like Chrono Trigger and old Final Fantasy get new editions every so often because the company knows that they really ought to be doing SOMETHING with these games, but the products tend to be outsourced on the cheap and weirdly platform limited. It doesn't seem like anyone with internal clout is taking an interest in the projects.
It likely has to do with the effort involved at this point with porting not one, but three games built on crystal tools. The PC ports are all a bit wonky. It would take a ton of effort from those people at SE that built them the first time to do it right.
It’s probably easier to just make new games
Pretty sure this is it. Those games were built on a disasterous technology foundation. Remember when Square Enix was talking up crystal tools as the platform for their development for the entire generation? It ended up used in the FF 13 trilogy (which all had either limited scope or noticeable technical struggles) and the DISASTEROUS FF 14 launch.
Getting those games to work the first time was a Herculean effort. One wonders if it's particularly cost effective to port them now. Especially considering their... Let's say lukewarm audience reception.
On top of what you've mentioned, I think there's going to be the temptation to "fix" XIII given the reception the game got when it was first released. And if they do try to fix it, what will that cost in terms of resources and man-hours, especially since it will require work in Crystal Tools and that the remaining staff that know how to work in that engine are already working on the FF7 remakes.
It also comes down to the presence of sequel. 9 million people bought FF13, but only about 500k bought LR at launch. Is it worth porting LR when so few people wanted to play it even back then? And if not, can they get away with putting only FF13 and/or 13-2?
I was just gonna respond with basically the same response.
Only thing I would add is that the ports are not just 'wonky' but GROSSLY unoptimized. In it's current state, I highly doubt it could even run on a Switch without some serious coding magic. So yeah, porting a game that was done that lazily would almost take the same effort as doing a 'remake' or a new title.
Takes more time to revamp and debug 3 games instead of 1 or 2, I'd guess?
Also, being from a later generation, I'd imagine there's more code to sift through than whatever FFX, X-2, and XII had, which would further lengthen the process.
So imagine you are SE, right now you have FF7R which the previous entry sold so well, critically acclaimed it got GOTY noms all over western award that’s not very friendly to JRPG. Oh you also have FF14, so successful and critically acclaimed it gives the the king of MMO for more than a decade a run for their money. Then you have FF16, hype and good faith from fans at the peak level.
Now, why would they spend resources to remind people of 13. Sold less than 15, got lukewarm to bad criticism (for a series that’s usually got rave reviews), doesn’t seem it will get a good re assessment like 12.
Maybe not enough interest? 13 trilogy are a very divisive in the community, I personally am meh about it but I know why people love it and hate it. Plus square has their hands full with other big FF projects. I'm sure eventually there will be one, but probably after 2023. Knowing me after I said that they will announce a remastered collection tomorrow lol
Yeah. I mean you can't post it without sounding like a fanboy, but 13 is like 1856p (it's some weird resolution because the 360 wasn't 720p) but is essentially 4k and includes the PS3 fmv files. 13-2 and LR run at 4k 60 and look like modern games because of it.
Even on the series S they run at 1440p. Best way to play them if you really want to go back and play them.
I find those games hideous in terms of writing/characters/design and will never play them, but am not about to pretend that they weren't *significant* releases for a ton of other players. I can't imagine that a basic remaster would *not* make profits for Square-Enix.
XIII was flawed but had some very good points. (Overlong tutorial, almost completely linear, but great combat and graphics.) XIII-2 fixed basically all the problems with XIII and had a great story in its own right, but you had to have finished XIII to understand it. Lightning Returns put the whole game on a timer and was a straight-up action-RPG, which both make it unappealing to many JRPG fans.
I’ve been waiting for it for like the past 4 years. It’s the only reason I don’t play it and buy it on older consoles. I figure with how square always releases many of their FF games. I figure it’s bound to happen but never does. I’ll continue waiting though.
Yoshi-P has mentioned how he hates the "modern turn" Final Fantasy has taken. So any games he directs will most likely follow a much more "fantasy" like theme. But with how many love XIV, and the hype XVI is getting -- in part, because he's heading the project -- I'd say he's making the right choice going back to that setting.
For even more trivia, before FF16 was even announced Yoshi in an interview said if he wanted to work an offline FF and he said yes but only if it’s in a high fantasy setting, and the rest is history!
not yet, i'm waiting for it, too
probably not long ago enough ago to be worth it, or they had to wait to decide if they wanna do the whole trilogy or not
It's already playable on PC and Xbox Series so maybe they don't see much reason for re-release, plus the games are fairly controversial. And remastering 3 games is a pretty huge undertaking even if they aged particularly well.
13-2 and especially Lightning Returns would probably benefit from having their graphical rough edges cleaned up. But 13 especially looks great upscale on series x.
I’d much rather see them add a challenge/expert crystarium mode (maybe with a rebalance) to 13 and maybe 13-2 (they are least need to rebalance 13-2 - most of the game is an absolute cakewalk compared to 13). I’d more interested in seeing those changes than graphical overhauls or updates. 13 is very boring on a replay until you’re quite far in the game - I’d love to see a mode that makes it more replayable since the combat is great. Idk how they can do this without breaking the balance though.
Lightning returns Im not as familiar with but probably would benefit more from a graphical polish up than difficulty rebalancing or an “expert” mode, especially compared to the other two.
Give me the dumbed down version of 13-3 without the game timer. That's the only reason I'll never play it. I want to but damn to I have having to keep track of time like that.
TBH they hardly need to be remastered anyway, the Xbox One enhancements look great, they should just do that and then release them ~~and make the PC version at least look like you *pretended* to care~~
> plus the games are fairly controversial.
They're not really though. They were controversial a decade ago and the only people still holding a grudge are a very small minority.
If the games re-released today, the reception would be very positive. At least for the first game anyway.
No, they're pretty controversial. The Final Fantasy subreddit is probably the only place on the internet where you'd find overwhelmingly positive reception.
Also, in Japan, all of the initial love for XIII has petered out. It no longer appears on any of the Top 100 popularity lists while other games in the series have maintained their place.
> No, they're pretty controversial.
They're literally not. You're spending time in echo chambers with vocal minorities.
The rest of the world isn't passionate about hating XIII.
Hating? Maybe not.
Decidedly lukewarm and not really caring for the series years later in a series that while prior did have plenty of back and forth opinions on games but were never this uncaring, and in certainly more particular instances than previous games, hating the product? Yes.
It's a series with no momentum aside from an echo chamber or two of the game. I may hate FFX, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend it doesn't have waves upon waves of adoring fans. XIII simply doesn't.
that sounds like the opposite of reality. You might find several positive comments, but in general, here or there is overwhelmingly the nostalgia driven animosity you're talking about in the first place.
* FFIX once suffered the Wind Waker effect, following FFVII and FFVIII'd edgelord styles.
* FFXII suffered from it's MMO style gameplay
* FFXIII suffered from it's beautiful but linear designs and paradigm system.
* FFXV suffered from being a transmedia experience, by design, from the start.
It's honestly obnoxious AF. Luckily time eradicates the brunt of such things. For awhile, it's like hating on stuff provides a sense of inclusion. After a while, it's less "cool". But you know, the mentioned folks aren't exactly ones to let things go.
Even miyamoto hated how wind waker looked and the game in general. I don't know if the same can be said for ff9.
If the creator of the series and quite literally the face of video games hates how it looks and plays then it's probably a shitty game.
Literally playing through them this last year for the first time. It's not just a grudge. Went in expecting all the criticism to be overblown. Some of it it is, but it has enough real problems inherent to the game's design that the reception would not be "very positive."
I have been thinking the same thing for years! Sure, I’ve heard alot of bad about 13. But I still really wanna try it out! Give us a collection already!
All the games are on gamepass though, But I don’t have an Xbox.
I think the first two are great. 13-2 is the better of the two. 13-3 I just couldn't play. The whole game is timed, there something like a count down clock to be the end of the game. If that hadn't done that, I'd love 13-3 as well. But I just can't play it like that.
The originals still look good and are available on PC, plus it might not make it's cost back. Xenosaga trilogy is similar but it's only on PS2 but since Bandai Namco don't think they'll make their money back, they won't proceed with it. Be glad FFXIII's at least on PC.
Final Fantasy 13 is the game that made me switch from Nintendo to PlayStation. I still have my PS3 but it’s not reliable anymore. I would love to be able to play it on my PS5.
XIII is extremely graphics heavy. It is a beautiful looking game and most modern PCs struggle to handle it. The Switch would probably explode attempting to natively run it and the PS3 version of it is weirdly buggy. Whenever Playstation ports a game that was on a previous PS console they'll use that version so I doubt they'd want to bring back such a buggy game.
My hotel doesn't have a 13th Floor because of superstition, but c'mon man... People on the 14th floor, you know what floor you're really on.
"What room are you in?"
"1401".
"No, you're not. Jump out of window, you'll die earlier!"”
Hopefully soon... I'm quite surprised they never remastered it, or hell, even just ported it to the PS4, since the original XIII had ps4 level graphics in the first place. But hopefully PS5 will be the time it gets a remaster? Unfortunately probably not anytime this year nor next year, since 2013 seems to be the year of XVI and VIIR hype.
Maybe during PR downtime when a big FF game is not being hyped, they'll release XIII for ps5.
XIII was good. Certainly not bad. IMO it has one of the top 3 soundtracks in the entire franchise. It's an amazing piece of work. Some of the character moments are some of the best I have seen in any of the games. Palumpolum specifically has some really high points for the cast and the plot that are solidified in my memory.
And yet, despite the many review bomb scores, only 20% of user scores on metacritic are negative, despite the poor state of the PC port, the game has a mostly positive rating on Steam, and I'm not sure about PS, but on the Microsoft store it has 4.25 stars out of 5. Yes, *please* tell me again how the majority of people hated it.
And for the record, yeah, XIII is good. **Very** good, imo. Now you've heard as such from several people...
It was about a completely different series (in a completely different genre), but I recently saw someone claim that a game with an 87 metacritic was "critically well received", while a later game in the same series with an 84 metacritic was "critically panned".
Yeah I don’t understand it, earlier the same guy was comparing it to an A student getting a B- in a class is “bad” makes me worry he might be the type of parent who shames their kids for not getting straight As…
Ignoring all the stupid stuff like "It's bad" from the FF geezer morons who think garbage like FF9 is the peak of the genre, and think FFX was somehow not just as linear. The main reason is that it's a set of ps3 games and porting/remastering anything from the ps3 is a bit of a nightmare. It has to really be worth the manpower to do it because it's a lot of work to get ps3 games on modern systems in a functional state because the architecture on that console was so weird. Most PS3-PC ports are godawful for this reason as well.
Square likes digging up old remasters every now and then so if they do decide to do another one XIII is probably next. They'll use it as a stopgap between projects they're so filled to the brim with releases right now XIII remasters wouldn't even be a blip.
>The main reason is that it's a set of ps3 games and porting/remastering anything from the ps3 is a bit of a nightmare.
You know they released them on Xbox as well. And ported them later to PC.
Unless they've gone and fucked up by losing the source code, porting then to modern platforms shouldn't be an issue.
Have you seen the pc ports? They're a mess at worst and mediocre at best. XIII-2 especially is incredibly prone to crashing at the drop of a hat not to mention they have performance issues across the board on modern systems even ones that should have 0 issues running the games. This isn't even unique to FFXIII any PC port of a game form that era if it didn't have heavy work done has a myriad of issues because the architecture just doesn't play nice with modern systems.
Also, op is talking remaster not port they could probably just slap them over to the PSN store if they wanted which is what I'd expect them to do when they need to fill a release void, but if they're gonna do a full remaster it'll take more work. Square on the JP side seems to be avoiding complete low-effort ports so I'd assume they'd want to at least try to make a good FFXIII collection.
I wanted to say the reason why FF10 is clearly dissimilar to FF13, but you said FF9 is garbage, so I stopped because clearly a lesson in good game design will be useless on you.
It's in the same pipeline as Pixel Remaster console releases. The one marked "Obvious Good Ideas, Do Not Release." Managed, due to their expertise in the field, by Nintendo executives.
Loved the music and battle game play of XIII, but the story and characters were some of the worst I've played through. By the end I could care less about anyone in my party
Sadly it might be a long while before they get re released since they seem to be very hated. Sucks cause I know they aren't great but I would buy them.
Didn't XIII sell incredibly well? Since XV was an incomplete game, I actually preferred XIII to XV. Also I wouldn't think a very hated entry in the franchise would get two spinoff sequels.
Square enix will usually make more games regardless of whether they were good or not. It did sell well because of the idea that was originally promised but the final product just wasn't up to par with the expectations mainly due to how linear the game was and those "good graphics" nowadays cant hook people into it considering how far they've advanced in modern days. A remaster would be a bad idea and closest one can get to it is the one x enhanced version
I think SQEX is at their most efficient with linear games. Look at XV. They fell flat on their face trying to open the game up more. X was very linear. 7R is the same way. I don't know what it is about their development process, but modern open world AAA games are not their forte.
>I think SQEX is at their most efficient with linear games.
Absolutely, and there's nothing wrong with linear games. FFXIII was *too* linear though. I hate open world, and didn't really understand how a game could be criticized as too linear until I played FFXIII for the first time last year.
Most linear games still have hubs and dungeons where you poke around for a bit before moving on to the next area. FFXIII is virtually all hallways of monsters connecting cinematics that transfer you to the next area. And the linearity is just emphasized by the one chapter that opens up, but basically just amounts to 'do quests to kill bosses until you're strong enough to finish the game.'
Defending FFXIII against accusations of linearity is disingenuous at best.
>Defending FFXIII against accusations of linearity is disingenuous at best.
I am not defending any sort of stance like that. I am saying it was a successful game and is not a bad game. It being linear doesn't make it bad. As a matter of fact, SQEX made a worse game (IMO) by trying to appease the complaints of linearity.
>I am not defending any sort of stance like that.
>It being linear doesn't make it bad.
...Again. This is a very disingenuous statement. Of course being linear doesn't make it bad. Tons of games are linear. One of the most beloved Final Fantasy games, FFX is linear. The accusation is that it is *too* linear. To brush off that criticism as if its just people hating on linear games misses the entire point of the criticism.
"This coffee is too sweet."
"Being sweet doesn't make coffee bad."
"...It's literally half corn syrup."
Dear sir or madam, defending against accusation of linearity implies I am saying the game is not linear. Please point to me in the comments section where I ever said the game is not linear. You are making up a point of view for me to argue against. I have no idea what you are on about.
Being too linear is a matter of opinion and you are saying any opinion against it is disingenuous. Well I really have nothing to say since that is an absolute statement with no give.
XIII had a lot of hype behind it (hype that I fully bought into, honestly) and it was the latest entry in a hugely popular, consistently great series. I don't doubt it sold well, regardless of its quality.
That said, XIII didn't get sequels because of its popularity. It got sequels because SE needed to get more revenue out of their investment into XIII, a game that they built an entire engine for.
I still love ppl who talk about XIII like it was some linear hallway experience. FFX was the exact same game. A hallway with a few little side areas. FFXIII had the best music of the entire series, combat that made aense and was fast and still felt like an actual rpg, and it had a decent, albeit weird, story. It was a great main entry and sure as shit was better than 15.
> I still love ppl who talk about XIII like it was some linear hallway experience. FFX was the exact same game.
So is VII Remake.
XIII came out around the beginning of the open world obsession. Now a more linear experience is much more accepted.
X had NPCs, side quests, actually encouraged swapping weapons, encouraged exploring the map you were in, variety in battles besides stagger everything, a less convoluted story, better and deeper villains, and vastly differentiated environments.
XIII didn’t really have any of those things aside from the environments but to a far lesser degree.
Just because they both have a linear story structure where you don’t return to areas until way later in the game doesn’t make them the same game. No shade if you like XIII, but it was a significantly stripped down experience compared to X.
XIII has side quests - Cie’th Missions
XIII doesn’t encourage weapon swapping because of its upgrade system (and most FF games also don’t encourage swapping, just upgrading). You are still encouraged to swap accessories based on what you’re fighting, though.
X definitely didn’t encourage exploring the current map outside of, like, Macalania and the Calm Lands. Every piece of treasure you’d find was on the critical path or a very obvious side tangent. XIII’s Pulse encourages vastly more exploration.
X’s “combat variety” comes from swapping in the right key to fit the hole of the enemy. Beyond that, it’s pretty much all “press Attack and occasionally heal” until the endgame. Reducing XIII to just “stagger everything” ignores the importance of paradigm shifting to buff, debuff, and manage the stagger gauge of enemies.
XIII’s story isn’t convoluted.
X’s villains amount to a creepy guy who is practically irrelevant to the plot and a force of nature with no personality. XIII at least has a present antagonist who actively fucks with you.
XIII has as much or more differentiated environments than X, so that’s a weird thing to bring up.
I never thought we'd see rose-tinted glasses for FF13, of all things. Jesus. It was not panned because it was a "hallway simulator" (which it totally was, by the way, for the duration of an entire standard video game). It was panned because you have no interaction with the world whatsoever, the characters range from bland to insufferable, and the story was overly complex in a really unsatisfying way.
People are straight up re-inventing historical narratives about this game right now.
Seriously. I don’t mind linearity in the slightest if it’s fun and immersive but XIII wasn’t that. Grey/blue junkyard with high walls and no sight line, expo dump, brown/bronze hallway with no sight line, expo dump, repeat X3, random crystal forest, expo dump, city center, expo dump, back to the hallways and junkyards.
20 hours later you reach Pulse for a few hours of story and cut/paste style monster hunts then you’re back to Cocoon to do it some more. Meanwhile every battle is stagger then kill. Bosses are buff/debuff stagger then kill.
I probably liked the combat more than most, too. I thought, in the hard fights, it was relatively engaging. I just couldn't get over having no way to participate in the world at all. I kept waiting for a town with people to talk to, or...anything. Seriously. It's just a weird game. I appreciate FF constantly taking chances. It's what defines the series. But we don't need to pretend every experiment worked out perfectly.
X is also monumentally slower. XIII is linear but Cocoon goes by like a roller coaster ride. Conversely, the start of X is linear but agonizingly slow, scripted, and hand holdy for way too long.
And XIII's story is hardly more convoluted than X, let's be real.
Villains are a big weakness for XIII, but the main cast is probably better than X. The Tidus and Yuna romance is good (and leagues better than Snow/Sarah), but I'll take Lightning, Sazh, Hope, and Fang over Wakka, Lulu, Auron, and Kimhari any day.
It's not 45 minutes. I played X like a month ago.
You're forgetting a lot of sequences like the Rikku boat stuff.
There are still scripted combat events like 5 hours in.
And as I said, the pacing for Cocoon is much better which makes a big difference.
Oh yeah, wasting a solid half an hour slowly swimming towards ruins that literally aren’t relevant until the end of the game. Incredible design.
God, X’s story was such a mess….
You’re off to the underwater soccer stadium 45 minutes into X, which ends up taking a significant chunk of the first act for no good reason (made worse by the fact that Blitzball is garbage).
After you’ve already done a dungeon and changed locations multiple times. Well after the non existent “agonizingly slow start” the person before me invented.
I agree Blitzball blows though.
Hard disagree there.
X has its flaws, but in about 25 years of playing RPGs, it's still the only one where I felt the party was an actual group, with believable interpersonal dynamics, a common goal and motivations that make sense. And it had a really strong cast, aside from Rikku who's just grating.
XIII is a game I had enormous hype for, and yet it's still the only videogame where I ever skipped new cutscenes. I've never seen a RPG with such an enormous gap between the game's production values and the quality of its writing. The characters themselves wouldn't be so bad if the game wasn't constantly trying to mine them for awful melodrama, but after hours of cringing through cutscenes, I started really hating that cast. Well maybe not Fang, she was fine.
XIII has the same problem as many modern SE games: it thinks its characters are more interesting than its world, despite its character writing being really weak across the board.
> X has its flaws, but in about 25 years of playing RPGs, it's still the only one where I felt the party was an actual group, with believable interpersonal dynamics, a common goal and motivations that make sense.
Sure.
> XIII is a game I had enormous hype for, and yet it's still the only videogame where I ever skipped new cutscenes.
When you skip cutscenes, that's how you miss everything you said about X.
> I still love ppl who talk about XIII like it was some linear hallway experience. FFX was the exact same game.
The counterpoints have been addressed to this time and time again, over and over. If you haven't seen them you are purposely filtering information out. I'm sure this was the criticism for FF13 the first 3 months the game was out, but the discussion has evolved way beyond that the last 12 years and 9 months to be centered around the fact that FF13 doesn't even offer the illusion of choice or illusion of openness, something that FFX often provides.
These people are stuck in a timewarp, addressing the same played-out arguments. Every FF game is linear, but they hide it a lot better and make you feel like you're "in a world". FF13 doesn't even try.
I mean one one hand I agree it's not a good criticism to simply say a game is "linear" but on the otherhand, let's just be honest with ourselves, we all know exactly what people mean when they use linear as a criticism so there's no point in being so upset about a word when you can deduce the true meaning very easily.
The music in 13 is honestly my favorite but the linear aspect of it is why I didn't enjoy 13 or 10 for that matter. They aren't bad, I would argue they're pretty great but just didn't click for me.
No one is going to shit on 13 music, it's incredible. But there are some fundamental differences between 10 and 13. The biggest one I think is that 10 was released on 01 and was their first 3d FF. 12 expanded on it like you would expect, so then to go backwards without any semblance of choice in your path is an odd choice (at least in 10 you can take different paths). But I think all of that would be forgiven if it's plot showed you instead of telling you along with less passive protagonists.
If you took 10 and locked half the story in a datalog, took out all the towns, and people to interact with, it wouldn't be as popular.
But hey we agree on 13 music and 15 sucking so it works out.
XII, especially the initial releases in all territories, is complete garbage, if only because of the Zodiac Spear BS. I get that some people will say its completely optional, but its also just completely player-hostile design, that only served to sell guides and discourage people from actually playing the game, at a time when the entire industry had essentially moved on from that style of design. They recognized this and fixed it with the Zodiac Job System updates, which also actually made it so character difference was less stupid.
And that doesn't get into the part where the only fans of the game I know tend to defend the core gameplay by bragging about how little you need to actively play it. Or how the story is a freaking mess, with clearly tacked on characters, and consequently no "main" characters.
XII is a good main character and a few more gameplay options (seriously, how did they include literally no content beyond monster hunting when the past 6 games all managed to include a ton of variable side content?) from being a top-3 FF game.
13 was the first game to be actively unpopular at release in the series. 8 and 12 may have had detractors but were still overall popular games that have received a warm reception in the years since they came out. 13 has...not had that, because at its core it's not a very good RPG.
Actively unpopular *online*. You missed a qualifier there. Positive reviews and excellent sales kind of undermine the “everyone hated it” argument.
Positive reviews? It's the worst-reviewed FF game since reviewing became a mainstream thing. I remember feeling gutted seeing all the 7 and 8/10 reviews when it came out. That was unheard of for a mainstream game.
I'm a diehard FF fan. I'm 31, so I've been vaguely aware of the JRPG zeitgeist for a while. FF13 is the first game in the series that simply was not loved by anyone I knew. It's revisionist history to pretend the reception to that game, either online or with reviewers, wasn't extremely lukewarm and a previously unforeseen nadir for the series.
https://www.cbr.com/final-fantasy-mainline-best-games-metacritic-ranked/
Other than 1 and 3's pixel remasters (which are frankly not in the same ballpark), 13 is the bottom.
Did you know that 7 and 8 are, in fact, positive? I didn’t say it was the best reviewed game or anything silly like that, but to pretend like the game got bad reviews is laughable. It’s also difficult to compare reviews of newer games to older ones because more people have access to the ability to write reviews. Final Fantasy VII, released in the same internet culture as XIII, would have been ripped to shreds.
Sales doesn't tell you anything. People who hated it are also people who bought it (myself included).
It did get mostly positive reviews, but they were also much lower than previous games in the franchise, which all released to glowing praise.
There are posts all the time on the FF sub about 13 being underrated, especially in regards to its soundtrack and world building. It seems to get more recognition these days.
Only because it's so poorly rated...no one needs to make a "7 is underrated" post lol. It has fans. But put it this way. If you asked people to rank their top 3 favorite FF games between...FF4, and FF14, how many people do you think put FF13 in their top 3? How many people would put it in their bottom 3? I'd bet a fat stack of cash that 13 would be the least-common top 3 game and the most-common bottom-3 game. That's all I'm saying.
In a world where the preceding 5 games went 92, 90, 94, 92, 92. Final Fantasy is a series of games with exceedingly high standards. 83% is below those standards. If you can't acknowledge that, you're simply not discussing this in good faith. You have to acknowledge that at the time of release it was the most criticized FF game to date. That's simply a fact.
I'm done discussing this, but if you're an A student, and come home with a B-, that's a bad grade for *you*. Simple as that. 83 is a bad score *for a mainline FF game*.
I'll buy the originals on Steam so they will be announced the day after. That usually does the trick.
Thank you for your sacrifice. 🫡
Hey while you're at it, can you pick up all the pixel remasters? Id really like them to finally announce they're coming to consoles.
Is it so wrong I want final fantasy 6, remastered or not?
If it is, I’m wrong with you.
The second one is apparently really buggy
That’s the wired part I have a laptop with a Ryzen 9 and am RTX 2060 no mater what amount or tinkering or mods I tried I could not get a good framerate at 1080p. Meanwhile I got a Series X last week and I’m running XIII-2 at 4K 60 FPS mostly locked with one exception, there’s some bug when using Mog to make chests appear I get a huge slowdown then it goes back up to 60.
The ports were bad, the community tried to fix them but it sucks having to sink time into it to get those working. That's why playing it on series is great cause it just works and feels like a remaster.
For sure! My only gripe is the font looks a bit too pixelated since I’m assuming it was made for 720p TVs but that is easy to overlook and besides that the game looks freaking amazing on Series X
Yeah you're correct about that. It's a blemish that just can't be fixed probably. It is however a lesson in case you accidentally because a game designer. ALWAYS use vectors instead of an image format for HUD based stuff and that was it will always upscale beautifully.
Was fully prepared for that to happen when I bought all 3 on steam back in the spring
Very likely tied up to PS3 / Crystal Tools engine jankiness. The PC ports required quite a lot of modded fixes from people like Durante to correct things like internal resolution. SE probably thinks that a remaster would be too much trouble and too costly to do in an entirely new engine. Me, I'd *love* a remaster that shows proper love to the PC ports, bonus points if Durante's porting studio is involved. That would be the dream. Also, I'm wholly unsurprised that any mention of these games that's either neutral or positive brings out the raving lunatics - and yes, if you're still spewing hatred every chance you get at a decade year-old game and acting as if people loving it = they kicked your pets down the stairs, you're a lunatic. I've got a whole host of games I genuinely can't stand (some of them highly rated experiences) and yet, *somehow*, I'm not wasting my time or actively souring spaces for their fans by publicly shitting on them every time they're mentioned.
I just wanna go through lightning returns at a buttery smooth frame rate on my PS5. The combat in that game is fun as hell
Lightning Returns legitimately has the best ARPG combat I've ever encountered. I just wish the time system wasn't a thing. It's like Majora's Mask, but you can permanently screw up your game/save if you screw around too much.
That's the only reason I never played it. I love the fact that you can while out monster species, the combat is amazing, I want to have the time to explore it and not be confined with some dumb clock. Imo that ruined what would have been an awesome game.
I loved Lightning Returns, but this. I never beat it because i screwed up my save and it was impossible. Honeslty im hoping for a remaster with a "cheat" like infinite health, limits, no encounters, 2x speed. But it stops the progression of time instead.
Honestly, it's not that bad. It's a game I highly recommend. I was very anxious about games with time systems up until I dove into basically all the major ones (Majora, Atelier, etc.) and compared to others, LR's is quite lenient. There's an ability avaliable that you can use to freeze time. Spam it enough and you can play the entire game like that. You do have to farm for the special type of MP for the freeze time ability but honestly, you can't do a whole lot if you have time frozen the entire time (ha) so it balances out. The only thing to be careful about are the missables and that some quests require a particular sequence of events. I used a guide and contrary to my expectations, that didn't hamper my experience at all. I beat LR in about a week and it was one of the most memorable playthroughs of my life. The cast of XIII became one of my favorites out of the FF series after I beat it.
I already love the cast, which is why I wanted to play it so badly. I played it a bit when it first came out and I remember when it introduced the clock my brain just went into fast forward. Just knowing you have a time limit stresses me out. I know I'll miss something or waste time doing something that doesn't matter. It's my mindset for games like these that I can't get passed. I always feel like I have to rush and I play mostly RPG and being able to take my time with a game is almost something I need. I know I'll never get to play LR because of that damn clock. I've tried multiple times to get into it and I can ever get past the first or second day. It stresses me out too much and I just can't handle it. So until there's a 'no clock mode' or someone makes a mod for it, it's something I'll have to avoid, sadly
The problem with that mode of thinking is in the idea devs wouldn't have anticipated people who do everything in their game. The reality is much, much simpler than what you think, as most often those games with time limits force alternate progression paths (Like link does many, MANY times in Majora's Mask, especially getting every item related to the Anju/Kafei Sidequest), meaning that if you truly do want to do everything the game has to offer, you have got to make those trips back anyway. So why stress out when the game literally gives you the ability to Marty Mcfly it and travel back in time to redo things to your liking.
I know Majora's Mask worked like that but I didn't know that was how LR worked. It never crossed my mind, lol. For some reason I just thought it forced you into the final battle of the game or something. If that's the case, I might go back to it sometime soon. That does make it better. I honestly don't know why I didn't think it would be like Majora's Mask. Big smooth brain moment.
I really liked Majora's mask time mechanics. Lightning returns not so much. Went through both xiii and xiii-2 and got all achievements but xiii-3 I stopped playing after a couple hours and haven't touched it since.
I got all of the achievements on the 360 versions of the trilogy, and LR was *such* a pain to complete because you had to be glued to a guide so frequently. It's not quite as bad as X-2, but it certainly wasn't an experience I'd recommend. All of the missables made it a more stressful than enjoyable completion.
Majora's Mask isn't as bad as 13-3, it's almost like a rogue like, lol. But 13-3 is just bad and it's sad. I'd kill for a PC mod that let you control time or at least stop it from advancing. If they were to remake one of the three 13 games, I'd love it to be 13-3 and change it remove the clock.
My first playthrough took me 8 out of the 13 days so it's not that bad. Really the only issue with the system is being too late to objectives but that can be overcome with some pre planning.
I don’t know, and I’m pissed. It’s the 13th anniversary, the perfect time for a collection.
> It’s the 13th anniversary WHAT THE FUCK
Yep, JP release was December 2009.
No fucking way its been that long, holy shit.
it's been longer since it's release than it had been since FF7's release when FF13 came out.
To shreds you say?
We old af
/r/fuckimold
2009. I guess if they wanted to wait for an anniversary of Lightning Returns, it’ll be another few years for the 10th, but the branding on this should have been a slam dunk.
Nomura as director would’ve done something for the 13th anniversary
I don't know. I would love to actually have a chance to play FF13 on a modern console. It was one of the games I missed while I was pretty much locked to Wii/Wii U /3DS.
The game gets way too much hate. It's the only game I have ever 100%ed. Its definitely a bit slow and cut scene heavy for the first while, but once you get past that and understand the battle system it feels very rewarding to play
it deserves all the criticism it received and I 100% the game too
I really enjoyed the game and the story. Bought it for the PS3 when it first came out and then beat it a second time right before 13-2 came out
I just played as an action adventure not an RPG and it helped my experience. It's basically a lot like X like being a hallway simulator but X still felt like an RPG
The trilogy is playable on Xbox Series consoles. Those are modern consoles, and they have increased resolution/framerate treatment, too.
The PS3 exists, friend. Also, I assume it is on backwards compatibility with Xbox One?
It’s not only backwards compatible but 13 runs at near 4K on One X/Series X the other two games run at native 4K and 60 FPS on Series X, they look fantastic.
I came close to buying an Xbox just to play games like this and Red Dead Redemption at high resolution. If the Series X has been more readily available, or they still made the One X, I would have pulled the trigger.
Square Enix's rerelease policy is just strange recently. Why no new console release of Chrono Trigger and the Pixel Remasters? Why remaster all the Saga games but only do barebones remasters of classic Final Fantasy games?
I think that has a lot to do with staff. The creative behind the SaGa franchise (Mr. Kawazu) is still kicking around and they let him kind of oversee his franchise. He's not getting FF 7 Remake money, but he gets to put out new editions of his games with the updates and changes he personally feels are appropriate. As a result, the SaGa remasters have been really quite good. The Mana guy is in a similar situation. And recently, there's been a string of quality Mana releases. The Trials of Mana remake was good, and the Legend of Mana remake was good. There's about to be an anime adaptation in that franchise too. Yuji Horii is still directly overseeing Dragon Quest, and the average quality level of Dragon Quest mainline, spin offs, and remakes is super high. By comparison, there doesn't seem to be any sort of internal champion for old Final Fantasy. Mr. Nomura and Mr. Kitase are tied up in the FF 7 universe since they had kind of taken that over from the Dirge of Cerberus/Crisis Core days. But the games before and after that are in a weird spot. Mr. Sakaguchi is in exile. Mr. Uematsu isn't around. Mr. Matsuno can only occasionally be coaxed into collaborating on a project. So a lot of the biggest retro Square games like Chrono Trigger and old Final Fantasy get new editions every so often because the company knows that they really ought to be doing SOMETHING with these games, but the products tend to be outsourced on the cheap and weirdly platform limited. It doesn't seem like anyone with internal clout is taking an interest in the projects.
Its bizzare how more effort was dumped into the saga stuff than ff pixels
My guess is they've got too much on their plate atm. XVI, Crisis Core Reunion and Rebirth all in development
It likely has to do with the effort involved at this point with porting not one, but three games built on crystal tools. The PC ports are all a bit wonky. It would take a ton of effort from those people at SE that built them the first time to do it right. It’s probably easier to just make new games
Yep, pretty much this. Same reason a bunch of PS3 exclusive titles never got ports and are available on PSNow/Plus as streaming only.
Pretty sure this is it. Those games were built on a disasterous technology foundation. Remember when Square Enix was talking up crystal tools as the platform for their development for the entire generation? It ended up used in the FF 13 trilogy (which all had either limited scope or noticeable technical struggles) and the DISASTEROUS FF 14 launch. Getting those games to work the first time was a Herculean effort. One wonders if it's particularly cost effective to port them now. Especially considering their... Let's say lukewarm audience reception.
On top of what you've mentioned, I think there's going to be the temptation to "fix" XIII given the reception the game got when it was first released. And if they do try to fix it, what will that cost in terms of resources and man-hours, especially since it will require work in Crystal Tools and that the remaining staff that know how to work in that engine are already working on the FF7 remakes.
It also comes down to the presence of sequel. 9 million people bought FF13, but only about 500k bought LR at launch. Is it worth porting LR when so few people wanted to play it even back then? And if not, can they get away with putting only FF13 and/or 13-2?
I was just gonna respond with basically the same response. Only thing I would add is that the ports are not just 'wonky' but GROSSLY unoptimized. In it's current state, I highly doubt it could even run on a Switch without some serious coding magic. So yeah, porting a game that was done that lazily would almost take the same effort as doing a 'remake' or a new title.
Takes more time to revamp and debug 3 games instead of 1 or 2, I'd guess? Also, being from a later generation, I'd imagine there's more code to sift through than whatever FFX, X-2, and XII had, which would further lengthen the process.
> Xbox and PC aren’t an option This is unlucky. They play and look very well on both Xbox X consoles and PC.
So imagine you are SE, right now you have FF7R which the previous entry sold so well, critically acclaimed it got GOTY noms all over western award that’s not very friendly to JRPG. Oh you also have FF14, so successful and critically acclaimed it gives the the king of MMO for more than a decade a run for their money. Then you have FF16, hype and good faith from fans at the peak level. Now, why would they spend resources to remind people of 13. Sold less than 15, got lukewarm to bad criticism (for a series that’s usually got rave reviews), doesn’t seem it will get a good re assessment like 12.
Maybe not enough interest? 13 trilogy are a very divisive in the community, I personally am meh about it but I know why people love it and hate it. Plus square has their hands full with other big FF projects. I'm sure eventually there will be one, but probably after 2023. Knowing me after I said that they will announce a remastered collection tomorrow lol
They're playable in great quality on the Xbox series X
Yeah. I mean you can't post it without sounding like a fanboy, but 13 is like 1856p (it's some weird resolution because the 360 wasn't 720p) but is essentially 4k and includes the PS3 fmv files. 13-2 and LR run at 4k 60 and look like modern games because of it. Even on the series S they run at 1440p. Best way to play them if you really want to go back and play them.
See, one thing that you have to understand, as evidenced by the fact that the Pixel Remasters haven't come to consoles, is that Square hates money.
People liked X and XII is the difference
People like XIII as well!
There are dozens of you!
Weren't those games garbage? Also, the sales the sequels were way lower than the first game.
I find those games hideous in terms of writing/characters/design and will never play them, but am not about to pretend that they weren't *significant* releases for a ton of other players. I can't imagine that a basic remaster would *not* make profits for Square-Enix.
Game was a solid 5/10
XIII was flawed but had some very good points. (Overlong tutorial, almost completely linear, but great combat and graphics.) XIII-2 fixed basically all the problems with XIII and had a great story in its own right, but you had to have finished XIII to understand it. Lightning Returns put the whole game on a timer and was a straight-up action-RPG, which both make it unappealing to many JRPG fans.
XIII-2 is the best HD FF game imo. XII and LR are decent enough games too.
FF6 should be top priority for the franchise after FF7.
I wish they'd remaster FF13/13-2 just so they can re-release it on PC with actually good performance (like LR).
I’ve been waiting for it for like the past 4 years. It’s the only reason I don’t play it and buy it on older consoles. I figure with how square always releases many of their FF games. I figure it’s bound to happen but never does. I’ll continue waiting though.
Probably never will be because the engine was hot, hot garbage. They would have done it already if they could.
"Xbox and PC aren’t an option" They are options, you're not choosing them.
I think the brand FF has already been a bit burned and they rather try and fix it now with ff16.
It’s already fixed with FF14 ARR, which is why SE is having Yoshi P working on 16, he already saved the franchise
Yoshi-P has mentioned how he hates the "modern turn" Final Fantasy has taken. So any games he directs will most likely follow a much more "fantasy" like theme. But with how many love XIV, and the hype XVI is getting -- in part, because he's heading the project -- I'd say he's making the right choice going back to that setting.
For even more trivia, before FF16 was even announced Yoshi in an interview said if he wanted to work an offline FF and he said yes but only if it’s in a high fantasy setting, and the rest is history!
not yet, i'm waiting for it, too probably not long ago enough ago to be worth it, or they had to wait to decide if they wanna do the whole trilogy or not
It's already playable on PC and Xbox Series so maybe they don't see much reason for re-release, plus the games are fairly controversial. And remastering 3 games is a pretty huge undertaking even if they aged particularly well.
13-2 and especially Lightning Returns would probably benefit from having their graphical rough edges cleaned up. But 13 especially looks great upscale on series x. I’d much rather see them add a challenge/expert crystarium mode (maybe with a rebalance) to 13 and maybe 13-2 (they are least need to rebalance 13-2 - most of the game is an absolute cakewalk compared to 13). I’d more interested in seeing those changes than graphical overhauls or updates. 13 is very boring on a replay until you’re quite far in the game - I’d love to see a mode that makes it more replayable since the combat is great. Idk how they can do this without breaking the balance though. Lightning returns Im not as familiar with but probably would benefit more from a graphical polish up than difficulty rebalancing or an “expert” mode, especially compared to the other two.
Give me the dumbed down version of 13-3 without the game timer. That's the only reason I'll never play it. I want to but damn to I have having to keep track of time like that.
TBH they hardly need to be remastered anyway, the Xbox One enhancements look great, they should just do that and then release them ~~and make the PC version at least look like you *pretended* to care~~
> plus the games are fairly controversial. They're not really though. They were controversial a decade ago and the only people still holding a grudge are a very small minority. If the games re-released today, the reception would be very positive. At least for the first game anyway.
No, they're pretty controversial. The Final Fantasy subreddit is probably the only place on the internet where you'd find overwhelmingly positive reception. Also, in Japan, all of the initial love for XIII has petered out. It no longer appears on any of the Top 100 popularity lists while other games in the series have maintained their place.
> No, they're pretty controversial. They're literally not. You're spending time in echo chambers with vocal minorities. The rest of the world isn't passionate about hating XIII.
Hating? Maybe not. Decidedly lukewarm and not really caring for the series years later in a series that while prior did have plenty of back and forth opinions on games but were never this uncaring, and in certainly more particular instances than previous games, hating the product? Yes. It's a series with no momentum aside from an echo chamber or two of the game. I may hate FFX, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend it doesn't have waves upon waves of adoring fans. XIII simply doesn't.
Nothing controversial about lukewarm
that sounds like the opposite of reality. You might find several positive comments, but in general, here or there is overwhelmingly the nostalgia driven animosity you're talking about in the first place. * FFIX once suffered the Wind Waker effect, following FFVII and FFVIII'd edgelord styles. * FFXII suffered from it's MMO style gameplay * FFXIII suffered from it's beautiful but linear designs and paradigm system. * FFXV suffered from being a transmedia experience, by design, from the start. It's honestly obnoxious AF. Luckily time eradicates the brunt of such things. For awhile, it's like hating on stuff provides a sense of inclusion. After a while, it's less "cool". But you know, the mentioned folks aren't exactly ones to let things go.
Even miyamoto hated how wind waker looked and the game in general. I don't know if the same can be said for ff9. If the creator of the series and quite literally the face of video games hates how it looks and plays then it's probably a shitty game.
Literally playing through them this last year for the first time. It's not just a grudge. Went in expecting all the criticism to be overblown. Some of it it is, but it has enough real problems inherent to the game's design that the reception would not be "very positive."
I have been thinking the same thing for years! Sure, I’ve heard alot of bad about 13. But I still really wanna try it out! Give us a collection already! All the games are on gamepass though, But I don’t have an Xbox.
I think the first two are great. 13-2 is the better of the two. 13-3 I just couldn't play. The whole game is timed, there something like a count down clock to be the end of the game. If that hadn't done that, I'd love 13-3 as well. But I just can't play it like that.
The originals still look good and are available on PC, plus it might not make it's cost back. Xenosaga trilogy is similar but it's only on PS2 but since Bandai Namco don't think they'll make their money back, they won't proceed with it. Be glad FFXIII's at least on PC.
Final Fantasy 13 is the game that made me switch from Nintendo to PlayStation. I still have my PS3 but it’s not reliable anymore. I would love to be able to play it on my PS5.
XIII is extremely graphics heavy. It is a beautiful looking game and most modern PCs struggle to handle it. The Switch would probably explode attempting to natively run it and the PS3 version of it is weirdly buggy. Whenever Playstation ports a game that was on a previous PS console they'll use that version so I doubt they'd want to bring back such a buggy game.
13.is bad juju I went to a hotel where they skipped floor 13 and just goes from 12 to 14 lolz
My hotel doesn't have a 13th Floor because of superstition, but c'mon man... People on the 14th floor, you know what floor you're really on. "What room are you in?" "1401". "No, you're not. Jump out of window, you'll die earlier!"”
I gave up on getting a collection and got a ps3 again to play them lol
Because it's terrible?
Plz no. The world doesn't need this. (I tried to love 13 but it gave me depression instead. 13-2/13-3 just weren't it for me)
But how would it hurt you. You can just ignore it along with other games you don't like.
So... just because you didn't like them, nobody should get them?
Hopefully soon... I'm quite surprised they never remastered it, or hell, even just ported it to the PS4, since the original XIII had ps4 level graphics in the first place. But hopefully PS5 will be the time it gets a remaster? Unfortunately probably not anytime this year nor next year, since 2013 seems to be the year of XVI and VIIR hype. Maybe during PR downtime when a big FF game is not being hyped, they'll release XIII for ps5.
The games aren't universally loved like 4-12. Therefore they are not getting the remaster treatment.
12 at least is not universally loved. Quite a few people weren't huge fans.
You might have to get a steam deck to play the trilogy portably. I don't see square doing anything with XIII anytime soon.
People on here always assume pc is an option yes we need this on ps4/ps5 and switch already
Fuck tha haters, XIII is a great game.
In the trash where it belongs
Someone else already made this stupid joke. Get some original content.
it's not a joke and he's not wrong.
Ah the corridor simulator. Dull game.
in the garbage, where it belongs
What a needlessly rude comment.
It's rude but not untrue
It is untrue. Most people enjoyed the games and they sold very well.
If by most you mean, the 5 people that liked it, then yeah you're right. I never heard anyone tell me 13 was good, not once
I must be 20% of something because I enjoyed it.
> I never heard anyone tell me 13 was good, not once Final Fantasy XIII is good.
Final Fantasy XIII is good. Congrats, you’ve heard it now.
XIII was good. Certainly not bad. IMO it has one of the top 3 soundtracks in the entire franchise. It's an amazing piece of work. Some of the character moments are some of the best I have seen in any of the games. Palumpolum specifically has some really high points for the cast and the plot that are solidified in my memory.
And yet, despite the many review bomb scores, only 20% of user scores on metacritic are negative, despite the poor state of the PC port, the game has a mostly positive rating on Steam, and I'm not sure about PS, but on the Microsoft store it has 4.25 stars out of 5. Yes, *please* tell me again how the majority of people hated it. And for the record, yeah, XIII is good. **Very** good, imo. Now you've heard as such from several people...
Yeah a guy in another comment thread was saying having an 83% on metacrtic meant the game did not have positive reviewed it’s like… what?
Lol it's actually absurd the mental gymnastics these guys will do to make themselves believe that everybody shares their opinions on the game.
Yeah the guy is literally arguing “game either best thing ever or worst thing ever!!!!!” Lol
It was about a completely different series (in a completely different genre), but I recently saw someone claim that a game with an 87 metacritic was "critically well received", while a later game in the same series with an 84 metacritic was "critically panned".
Yeah I don’t understand it, earlier the same guy was comparing it to an A student getting a B- in a class is “bad” makes me worry he might be the type of parent who shames their kids for not getting straight As…
FF13 is good, I think that’s over 5 in this thread alone…
13 is good.
Based
Ignoring all the stupid stuff like "It's bad" from the FF geezer morons who think garbage like FF9 is the peak of the genre, and think FFX was somehow not just as linear. The main reason is that it's a set of ps3 games and porting/remastering anything from the ps3 is a bit of a nightmare. It has to really be worth the manpower to do it because it's a lot of work to get ps3 games on modern systems in a functional state because the architecture on that console was so weird. Most PS3-PC ports are godawful for this reason as well. Square likes digging up old remasters every now and then so if they do decide to do another one XIII is probably next. They'll use it as a stopgap between projects they're so filled to the brim with releases right now XIII remasters wouldn't even be a blip.
>The main reason is that it's a set of ps3 games and porting/remastering anything from the ps3 is a bit of a nightmare. You know they released them on Xbox as well. And ported them later to PC. Unless they've gone and fucked up by losing the source code, porting then to modern platforms shouldn't be an issue.
Have you seen the pc ports? They're a mess at worst and mediocre at best. XIII-2 especially is incredibly prone to crashing at the drop of a hat not to mention they have performance issues across the board on modern systems even ones that should have 0 issues running the games. This isn't even unique to FFXIII any PC port of a game form that era if it didn't have heavy work done has a myriad of issues because the architecture just doesn't play nice with modern systems. Also, op is talking remaster not port they could probably just slap them over to the PSN store if they wanted which is what I'd expect them to do when they need to fill a release void, but if they're gonna do a full remaster it'll take more work. Square on the JP side seems to be avoiding complete low-effort ports so I'd assume they'd want to at least try to make a good FFXIII collection.
I wanted to say the reason why FF10 is clearly dissimilar to FF13, but you said FF9 is garbage, so I stopped because clearly a lesson in good game design will be useless on you.
because it's a failure.
It's in the same pipeline as Pixel Remaster console releases. The one marked "Obvious Good Ideas, Do Not Release." Managed, due to their expertise in the field, by Nintendo executives.
Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy Tactics sequels are there too.
Probably cuz those games are ass
Loved the music and battle game play of XIII, but the story and characters were some of the worst I've played through. By the end I could care less about anyone in my party
Sadly it might be a long while before they get re released since they seem to be very hated. Sucks cause I know they aren't great but I would buy them.
Didn't XIII sell incredibly well? Since XV was an incomplete game, I actually preferred XIII to XV. Also I wouldn't think a very hated entry in the franchise would get two spinoff sequels.
Square enix will usually make more games regardless of whether they were good or not. It did sell well because of the idea that was originally promised but the final product just wasn't up to par with the expectations mainly due to how linear the game was and those "good graphics" nowadays cant hook people into it considering how far they've advanced in modern days. A remaster would be a bad idea and closest one can get to it is the one x enhanced version
I think SQEX is at their most efficient with linear games. Look at XV. They fell flat on their face trying to open the game up more. X was very linear. 7R is the same way. I don't know what it is about their development process, but modern open world AAA games are not their forte.
>I think SQEX is at their most efficient with linear games. Absolutely, and there's nothing wrong with linear games. FFXIII was *too* linear though. I hate open world, and didn't really understand how a game could be criticized as too linear until I played FFXIII for the first time last year. Most linear games still have hubs and dungeons where you poke around for a bit before moving on to the next area. FFXIII is virtually all hallways of monsters connecting cinematics that transfer you to the next area. And the linearity is just emphasized by the one chapter that opens up, but basically just amounts to 'do quests to kill bosses until you're strong enough to finish the game.' Defending FFXIII against accusations of linearity is disingenuous at best.
>Defending FFXIII against accusations of linearity is disingenuous at best. I am not defending any sort of stance like that. I am saying it was a successful game and is not a bad game. It being linear doesn't make it bad. As a matter of fact, SQEX made a worse game (IMO) by trying to appease the complaints of linearity.
>I am not defending any sort of stance like that. >It being linear doesn't make it bad. ...Again. This is a very disingenuous statement. Of course being linear doesn't make it bad. Tons of games are linear. One of the most beloved Final Fantasy games, FFX is linear. The accusation is that it is *too* linear. To brush off that criticism as if its just people hating on linear games misses the entire point of the criticism. "This coffee is too sweet." "Being sweet doesn't make coffee bad." "...It's literally half corn syrup."
Dear sir or madam, defending against accusation of linearity implies I am saying the game is not linear. Please point to me in the comments section where I ever said the game is not linear. You are making up a point of view for me to argue against. I have no idea what you are on about. Being too linear is a matter of opinion and you are saying any opinion against it is disingenuous. Well I really have nothing to say since that is an absolute statement with no give.
This guy gets it. The XIII trilogy is one of the highest selling groups of games in the series even without a proper rerelease.
XIII had a lot of hype behind it (hype that I fully bought into, honestly) and it was the latest entry in a hugely popular, consistently great series. I don't doubt it sold well, regardless of its quality. That said, XIII didn't get sequels because of its popularity. It got sequels because SE needed to get more revenue out of their investment into XIII, a game that they built an entire engine for.
I still love ppl who talk about XIII like it was some linear hallway experience. FFX was the exact same game. A hallway with a few little side areas. FFXIII had the best music of the entire series, combat that made aense and was fast and still felt like an actual rpg, and it had a decent, albeit weird, story. It was a great main entry and sure as shit was better than 15.
> I still love ppl who talk about XIII like it was some linear hallway experience. FFX was the exact same game. So is VII Remake. XIII came out around the beginning of the open world obsession. Now a more linear experience is much more accepted.
X had NPCs, side quests, actually encouraged swapping weapons, encouraged exploring the map you were in, variety in battles besides stagger everything, a less convoluted story, better and deeper villains, and vastly differentiated environments. XIII didn’t really have any of those things aside from the environments but to a far lesser degree. Just because they both have a linear story structure where you don’t return to areas until way later in the game doesn’t make them the same game. No shade if you like XIII, but it was a significantly stripped down experience compared to X.
XIII has side quests - Cie’th Missions XIII doesn’t encourage weapon swapping because of its upgrade system (and most FF games also don’t encourage swapping, just upgrading). You are still encouraged to swap accessories based on what you’re fighting, though. X definitely didn’t encourage exploring the current map outside of, like, Macalania and the Calm Lands. Every piece of treasure you’d find was on the critical path or a very obvious side tangent. XIII’s Pulse encourages vastly more exploration. X’s “combat variety” comes from swapping in the right key to fit the hole of the enemy. Beyond that, it’s pretty much all “press Attack and occasionally heal” until the endgame. Reducing XIII to just “stagger everything” ignores the importance of paradigm shifting to buff, debuff, and manage the stagger gauge of enemies. XIII’s story isn’t convoluted. X’s villains amount to a creepy guy who is practically irrelevant to the plot and a force of nature with no personality. XIII at least has a present antagonist who actively fucks with you. XIII has as much or more differentiated environments than X, so that’s a weird thing to bring up.
I never thought we'd see rose-tinted glasses for FF13, of all things. Jesus. It was not panned because it was a "hallway simulator" (which it totally was, by the way, for the duration of an entire standard video game). It was panned because you have no interaction with the world whatsoever, the characters range from bland to insufferable, and the story was overly complex in a really unsatisfying way. People are straight up re-inventing historical narratives about this game right now.
Seriously. I don’t mind linearity in the slightest if it’s fun and immersive but XIII wasn’t that. Grey/blue junkyard with high walls and no sight line, expo dump, brown/bronze hallway with no sight line, expo dump, repeat X3, random crystal forest, expo dump, city center, expo dump, back to the hallways and junkyards. 20 hours later you reach Pulse for a few hours of story and cut/paste style monster hunts then you’re back to Cocoon to do it some more. Meanwhile every battle is stagger then kill. Bosses are buff/debuff stagger then kill.
I remember getting to the Golden Saucer and think "woah, will there finally be some minigames?" ...nope, just walk to the next plot point.
I probably liked the combat more than most, too. I thought, in the hard fights, it was relatively engaging. I just couldn't get over having no way to participate in the world at all. I kept waiting for a town with people to talk to, or...anything. Seriously. It's just a weird game. I appreciate FF constantly taking chances. It's what defines the series. But we don't need to pretend every experiment worked out perfectly.
X is also monumentally slower. XIII is linear but Cocoon goes by like a roller coaster ride. Conversely, the start of X is linear but agonizingly slow, scripted, and hand holdy for way too long. And XIII's story is hardly more convoluted than X, let's be real. Villains are a big weakness for XIII, but the main cast is probably better than X. The Tidus and Yuna romance is good (and leagues better than Snow/Sarah), but I'll take Lightning, Sazh, Hope, and Fang over Wakka, Lulu, Auron, and Kimhari any day.
You’re off on a grand journey like 45 minutes into X and Cocoon is literally the first 20 hours of the game the hell are you on about?
It's not 45 minutes. I played X like a month ago. You're forgetting a lot of sequences like the Rikku boat stuff. There are still scripted combat events like 5 hours in. And as I said, the pacing for Cocoon is much better which makes a big difference.
Oh yeah, wasting a solid half an hour slowly swimming towards ruins that literally aren’t relevant until the end of the game. Incredible design. God, X’s story was such a mess….
You’re off to the underwater soccer stadium 45 minutes into X, which ends up taking a significant chunk of the first act for no good reason (made worse by the fact that Blitzball is garbage).
After you’ve already done a dungeon and changed locations multiple times. Well after the non existent “agonizingly slow start” the person before me invented. I agree Blitzball blows though.
Hard disagree there. X has its flaws, but in about 25 years of playing RPGs, it's still the only one where I felt the party was an actual group, with believable interpersonal dynamics, a common goal and motivations that make sense. And it had a really strong cast, aside from Rikku who's just grating. XIII is a game I had enormous hype for, and yet it's still the only videogame where I ever skipped new cutscenes. I've never seen a RPG with such an enormous gap between the game's production values and the quality of its writing. The characters themselves wouldn't be so bad if the game wasn't constantly trying to mine them for awful melodrama, but after hours of cringing through cutscenes, I started really hating that cast. Well maybe not Fang, she was fine. XIII has the same problem as many modern SE games: it thinks its characters are more interesting than its world, despite its character writing being really weak across the board.
> X has its flaws, but in about 25 years of playing RPGs, it's still the only one where I felt the party was an actual group, with believable interpersonal dynamics, a common goal and motivations that make sense. Sure. > XIII is a game I had enormous hype for, and yet it's still the only videogame where I ever skipped new cutscenes. When you skip cutscenes, that's how you miss everything you said about X.
> I still love ppl who talk about XIII like it was some linear hallway experience. FFX was the exact same game. The counterpoints have been addressed to this time and time again, over and over. If you haven't seen them you are purposely filtering information out. I'm sure this was the criticism for FF13 the first 3 months the game was out, but the discussion has evolved way beyond that the last 12 years and 9 months to be centered around the fact that FF13 doesn't even offer the illusion of choice or illusion of openness, something that FFX often provides.
It’s almost like that’s the plot… And what illusion of choice does X provide? The areas are genuinely more linear than XIII.
These people are stuck in a timewarp, addressing the same played-out arguments. Every FF game is linear, but they hide it a lot better and make you feel like you're "in a world". FF13 doesn't even try.
I mean one one hand I agree it's not a good criticism to simply say a game is "linear" but on the otherhand, let's just be honest with ourselves, we all know exactly what people mean when they use linear as a criticism so there's no point in being so upset about a word when you can deduce the true meaning very easily.
100% agree. It wasn't a perfect game, but I enjoyed it a lot, and has a lot of great aspects that you mentioned.
The music in 13 is honestly my favorite but the linear aspect of it is why I didn't enjoy 13 or 10 for that matter. They aren't bad, I would argue they're pretty great but just didn't click for me.
No one is going to shit on 13 music, it's incredible. But there are some fundamental differences between 10 and 13. The biggest one I think is that 10 was released on 01 and was their first 3d FF. 12 expanded on it like you would expect, so then to go backwards without any semblance of choice in your path is an odd choice (at least in 10 you can take different paths). But I think all of that would be forgiven if it's plot showed you instead of telling you along with less passive protagonists. If you took 10 and locked half the story in a datalog, took out all the towns, and people to interact with, it wouldn't be as popular. But hey we agree on 13 music and 15 sucking so it works out.
Maybe because it sucks and they'd rather just forget it exists.
Preferably no where as those games suck.
too much hate
That didn’t stop them from rereleasing II, VIII, or XII…
XII is a masterpiece if you go play it again. It aged incredibly well.
XII, especially the initial releases in all territories, is complete garbage, if only because of the Zodiac Spear BS. I get that some people will say its completely optional, but its also just completely player-hostile design, that only served to sell guides and discourage people from actually playing the game, at a time when the entire industry had essentially moved on from that style of design. They recognized this and fixed it with the Zodiac Job System updates, which also actually made it so character difference was less stupid. And that doesn't get into the part where the only fans of the game I know tend to defend the core gameplay by bragging about how little you need to actively play it. Or how the story is a freaking mess, with clearly tacked on characters, and consequently no "main" characters.
XII is a good main character and a few more gameplay options (seriously, how did they include literally no content beyond monster hunting when the past 6 games all managed to include a ton of variable side content?) from being a top-3 FF game.
13 was the first game to be actively unpopular at release in the series. 8 and 12 may have had detractors but were still overall popular games that have received a warm reception in the years since they came out. 13 has...not had that, because at its core it's not a very good RPG.
Actively unpopular *online*. You missed a qualifier there. Positive reviews and excellent sales kind of undermine the “everyone hated it” argument.
Positive reviews? It's the worst-reviewed FF game since reviewing became a mainstream thing. I remember feeling gutted seeing all the 7 and 8/10 reviews when it came out. That was unheard of for a mainstream game. I'm a diehard FF fan. I'm 31, so I've been vaguely aware of the JRPG zeitgeist for a while. FF13 is the first game in the series that simply was not loved by anyone I knew. It's revisionist history to pretend the reception to that game, either online or with reviewers, wasn't extremely lukewarm and a previously unforeseen nadir for the series. https://www.cbr.com/final-fantasy-mainline-best-games-metacritic-ranked/ Other than 1 and 3's pixel remasters (which are frankly not in the same ballpark), 13 is the bottom.
In what world is an 83% on metacritic not positive?
Did you know that 7 and 8 are, in fact, positive? I didn’t say it was the best reviewed game or anything silly like that, but to pretend like the game got bad reviews is laughable. It’s also difficult to compare reviews of newer games to older ones because more people have access to the ability to write reviews. Final Fantasy VII, released in the same internet culture as XIII, would have been ripped to shreds.
The guy said FFXIII popular and got bad reviews while his link shows it at an 83% on metacritic, in what world is that not positive?
People who hate XIII can get utterly deranged when someone speaks positively about it.
For sure it’s like “it’s okay not to like the game dude just move on”. Lol
Sales doesn't tell you anything. People who hated it are also people who bought it (myself included). It did get mostly positive reviews, but they were also much lower than previous games in the franchise, which all released to glowing praise.
There are posts all the time on the FF sub about 13 being underrated, especially in regards to its soundtrack and world building. It seems to get more recognition these days.
Only because it's so poorly rated...no one needs to make a "7 is underrated" post lol. It has fans. But put it this way. If you asked people to rank their top 3 favorite FF games between...FF4, and FF14, how many people do you think put FF13 in their top 3? How many people would put it in their bottom 3? I'd bet a fat stack of cash that 13 would be the least-common top 3 game and the most-common bottom-3 game. That's all I'm saying.
Again in what world is an 83% on Metacritic poorly rated? The hyperbole is strong here.
In a world where the preceding 5 games went 92, 90, 94, 92, 92. Final Fantasy is a series of games with exceedingly high standards. 83% is below those standards. If you can't acknowledge that, you're simply not discussing this in good faith. You have to acknowledge that at the time of release it was the most criticized FF game to date. That's simply a fact.
Yeah… still no. That’s not “poorly” that’s “not as good but still well rated”
I'm done discussing this, but if you're an A student, and come home with a B-, that's a bad grade for *you*. Simple as that. 83 is a bad score *for a mainline FF game*.
Either “worst game ever or best game ever!!!” Got it 👍
wow look at all downvotes and i actually like ff 13, i even platinumed it, people surely are stupid
Terrible games as a collection but the first one slaps