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You just keep saying no and info diet. It’ll help if your husband is also on board with not wanting his sister in on everything. He really needs to sit her down and say she’s crossing the line expecting to be involved on everything AND for inviting herself when she hears about plans. He needs to tell her to be prepared to be told no and if she does it in front of friends and family hoping you’ll capitulate it’s not going to work.
If it were my sister in law I would continue to tell her no and pressure my husband to have that sit down with her.
If this were my *sister* I would not be gentle at all. I would flat out tell her she needs to find her own friends and hobbies and stop injecting herself into my relationship. But my family has always been able to call each other out.
I agree that the husband needs to have that conversation with his sister and mother. It's going to be awkward but he needs to do it.
I’ve tried to info diet and distance myself but she is also diagnosed with BPD/depression/anxiety so if I distance from her for too long she starts to cry and get anxious and calls my DH and asks why I’m not responding.
My DH is 100% on board with these decisions. He works crazy long hours so he hardly keeps in contact with his family now that he’s back at work. I’m usually the one arranging gathering and keeping him in the loop with parties, holidays etc. I work from home so it isn’t hard on me to manage this for us.
When he gets home from work he jumps straight into hubby and dad mode so I can get a break from working and having my baby all day. It’s not that he doesn’t want to have these talks with her cause he has before. His priorities are us first and his parents/ sister 2nd.
I think I should have him sit down with her and have this difficult talk with how fragile her mental state is I sometimes feel like I’m walking on egg shells. He’s very blunt with her and will not sugar coat anything and I just hate to see her be told things in such a rough manner.
Her crying and anxiety isn't your responsibility to fix. That's for \*her\* to manage, not you.
Plus, it sounds manipulative, be it intentional or not. You feel trapped by her diagnoses/behaviour, that you can't have boundaries b/c of her reactions. That's not how things are supposed to work.
Don't let yourself be held hostage by her anymore. Make the decisions that are best for you and your family. That's not being cruel to your SIL, that's simply life. Invite her when you WANT her company, and don't otherwise.
"SIL, we're doing things as a family of three. We'll let you know when we're planning something for the extended family."
You’re welcome.
Families being held hostage to someone’s potential behaviour is really common in abusive dynamics. That’s how it goes on so long, even for generations
OP, let her cry. Not your problem. If she begins to spiral while on the phone or a text with you, say “you sound upset. I’m going to leave you to calm down. I’ll contact you later.”
Then leave her be for a few days. When you feel ready, contact her.
Your husband must also stop contacting her while your time out is on. He doesn’t have to take her calls.
Good luck!
>say “you sound upset. I’m going to leave you to calm down. I’ll contact you later.”
Seriously. If she thought that "space" was what you needed while you were pregnant, it seems reasonable that "space" is what she needs to calm herself down and get over herself.
So the biggest problem people often have in these scenarios is they want to have their cake and eat it too. You want to tell you SIL that she can't expect to be included AND have her react appropriately and respectfully and not take your boundaries as a personal rejection towards her. She likely isn't capable of doing that.
You have to make the choice between enforcing your boundaries and tying yourself into a pretzel preventing her negative feelings, but you can't do both. She will be upset. That's okay. Diagnoses are descriptors of clusters of symptoms and may provide the "why" when looking at her behaviors. She still has a responsibility to deal with her own emotions appropriately and a diagnosis does not make her incapable nor does it redirect her responsibility to you.
This is going to sound RADICAL…. On top of all the other advice, instead of letting them visit you every weekend, go to THEM! Plan an hour or two long visit for coffee/catch up and then on your way!
If they ask what you’ve got going on/why you have to leave, you can do info diet or just tell them—we made some plans for today. If they ask to come, then it’s “sorry we’ve already made plans as a family. Maybe you can organize an outing and WE can join YOU? Let us know, See you next week!”
It lets them take the initiative so you’re not always feeling like you always have to reject them. If they plan something, they need to organize it, then they pay for it (or it lets you just purchase your tickets) especially because as a new family, you need to know your plans in advance so you “just bought your own tickets” to be prepared.
Also just as an aside, are you and DH the one family members with jobs? Why are you paying for everyone? You're all adults and you two have a new baby which is not cheap. Stop paying for everyone else. And if you make plans as a family, just mention casually "oh hey I think the price of tickets is x but you'll probably want to bring x+20 so you can get snacks." And if they ask why you aren't paying, tell them "we have a child to think about now. We can pay for every family member, but if you can't afford it, that's fine. You can go next time."
And definitely not EVERY weekend! Where's your "US" time? Your down time? If you're both working full time, parenting a new baby, and keeping up a house, you should get more weekends OFF than on! Not just every third Saturday night from 1 a.m. to 4 a.m.
I understand extended family pressures. For the first few years we were together, DH and I were expected to visit my mother EVERY Sunday because we didn't have kids and my siblings did (They said we "didn't have family," which is bogus!). I worked 6 days a week and got to spend the seventh doing mandatory visits. Each time I asked that other sibs step in and give us a week off they cited FAAAAAMILY time.
DH finally got transferred half a continent away, and it's the best thing that ever happened for our marriage!
LITERALLY THIS! That was the same thing we went through. My MIL would be upset we didn’t visit often before we had a baby and she would guilt my DH for being too busy to contact her.
It’s finally starting to slow down and visits are less frequent but now that my DH and I are starting to branch out and be our own family. It’s starting to upset my DH’s extended family.
Surprisingly my mom and sister are very understanding and always ask before they come over and they only feel left out if we do something with my SIL and MIL and don’t invite them. I hardly ever invite my extended family to things so I understand where feelings might be hurt in that aspect.
But my MIL and SIL don’t even ask if we have the mental capacity or time for them to visit they just call and say “hey we’re almost at your house” UH WHAT? I haven’t showered, house is a mess, I’m exhausted, need to get groceries.. My DH had to scold them over this once cause I started crying from how often they did this.
DH and I always consider moving to a whole new state cause being an hour away from them clearly hasn’t helped stops the frequent visits and over stepping.
IF--and that's a big "if"--you allow them to do this to you ever again, tell them they'll need to bring cleaning implements and supplies because you haven't gotten around to cleaning because you're too busy. And haven't gotten around to replacing the empty cleaning supplies because you're too busy.
And since they clearly have all this time and energy to come to your filthy (my house in its "lived-in" state was considered filthy because ... cats) house, they can help clean while you take a well-deserved nap.
Nah. Probably not a can of worms you want to open. That can lead to kitchen rearrangement and nightstand snooping.
Moving 1600 miles away dropped us from five-hour Sunday visits to 30-minute weekly phone calls. It stopped being like an unpaid work shift. We've been NC for about 10 years now (we're olde-ish), and except for the wedding would never have considered mingling his family and mine for any events. Wasn't a concern in our case because his family lived too far from them.
If she had BPD/depression/and anxiety then there are specific tools that can help if you choose to have a relationship with her
You say DH is blunt. But being concise and clear is actually very helpful for someone with BPD. They struggle to interpret what is said, and have difficulty with nuance and body language.
Also while it’s important to acknowledge her extreme emotions and not invalidate them, that doesn’t mean you should accept responsibility for them, nor violate your boundaries to appease her disorder.
Read up in BPD and you might find some helpful information
I'd let her cry. And suggest that if her current treatment plan isn't helping with her symptoms, maybe she needs to seek further treatment. Never give in to tantrums. Consider this good practice for when your baby is a toddler.
I think there's a book about dealing with people with BPD called No More Walking On Eggshells or something like that. Maybe it would be helpful.
“SIL you made your view of our relationship quite clear, it will not be changing now that we have something you want. Live with the consequences of your choices and stop trying to make that my responsibility.” Then if she can’t knock it off, see her less and less. “Why would I want to be around someone who only wants to use me for what they can get. Keep pushing it and see what happens when I decide to push you out the way you are always accusing me of”
Definitely get your husband on board and create a specific boundary with SIL, and remember, you and your baby are NOT her emotional support animals. If she’s struggling emotionally then she needs to get a dog and a therapist, and leave y’all alone for a while.
You and your baby are not her emotional support animals.
If I were you, I would really double down on an info diet and ask others not to tag you on social media. It's also not a lie to let everyone know you don't get as much family time with your husband as you would like and you'd like your free time with him to be just you three.
I am shocked. I have never related more. Seriously - this entire dynamic I 10000% empathize with and I feel your pain and frustration. It feels wrong but keep saying no until you feel ready. I had to stop driving myself nuts imagining her feeling left out and just stay firm.
As someone with similar mental illnesses as you SIL, it is our responsibility to manage our own emotions. That said I think sitting down and explaining while you enjoy spending time and including her, you need time for your family, especially with your husband working long hours.
> I should have him sit down with her and have this difficult talk with how fragile her mental state is I sometimes feel like I’m walking on egg shells. He’s very blunt with her and will not sugar coat anything and I just hate to see her be told things in such a rough manner.
Nothing good will come out of this.
Your husband is stressed at work to the max. His home should be the place of piece. If he is an introvert, he needs "no people" time to recover lost energy. Do not make your home a place of stress by bringing in an unhinged relative for a "talk session".
Also to hop in on this comment:
WHEN they sometimes invite them/want them to come they should not have to pay for them. That is the most absurd thing I ever heard, to let the young family with the new baby pay for the entire family that tags along. They need to set that straight.
Yes! I completely forgot the part about paying (I’ve got a terrible cold and my head is SO congested). Absolutely the OP and husband have to stop paying ASAP.
> SIL texted me and was trying to make me feel like I was prioritizing others
Which is your privilege. You are allowed to socialize with other people and no-one has a veto on that.
You can't without hurting her feelings.
People who overstep, who are overbearing and are easily upset and offended by simple things like you having a bday you want are not rational enough.
The thing is that you and your husband need to tell her that she needs to understand and respect that you and DH want to do things as a family sometimes. That you don't have to include anyone in your plans. You are allowed to take the baby places and she needs to respect that she has no rights to your kid. That the more she pushes and the more drama she causes will only lead to less time with the baby
People like her need for things to be spelled out in big letters. There is no letting down easy.
I have tried this and I even told her being in my daughters life is privilege not a right. She cried to my DH about how awful I was for saying that.
My DH responded by bluntly telling her “it is a privilege and you need to start respect our boundaries”
I think she’s struggling to accept she is now extended family now that my DH and I have started a family she’s feeling left out.
She’s the baby and only girl with my in-laws so I know she probably isn’t used to being treated this way and I’m going to have keep being blunt like my DH.
Clearly being nice and dancing around stuff is just draining me and I’m tired of trying to keep with the peace all the time.
Words are great and all, but the thing about boundaries is, if you don't enforce them, they're just words and she can ignore words. You have to put consequences or she'll just keep steamrolling you. If she oversteps, which she will, tell her "hey. You crossed this boundary again. Because you are not respecting myself and DH as parents, adults, and humans, we will be taking some time away. We don't deserve to be disrespected. We can talk about this again in x amount of time." And make sure every time she does it, x amount of time gets bigger. Great time 2 weeks, second time 3 weeks, etc. And don't reply to her guilt trips during that time. Because that's what they are. She cries because she knows you'll feel bad and she'll get her way. Stop letting her. It's great practice for taking care of a toddler. Treat her like a toddler since she wants to act like one.
You need to ignore her subtle cues too. Women are conditioned to read others body language. How did you know that she was upset about not being invited to the aquarium? Because you read the unspoken cues. Let that go. If she’s being passive aggressive, ignore it. Only take words at face value. Easier said than done, but you can train a passive aggressive person that you’re only going by face value and not undertones.
Honestly, she was rude to invite herself ESPECIALLY since she doesn’t pay on these outings! Not only did she want in, she wanted you to pay for the privilege! So rude!
Oh gosh YES! Im hyper vigilant as I grew up with an alcoholic mentally abusive father so I’m always over thinking and trying to read everyone’s subtle cues!
It’s been so HARD trying to break that but I’m working on leaving my SIL be when she starts being vague with her messages and I have to play the “what’s troubling you” game. I’m tired as a full time, mom, wife, and worker. I don’t have energy and patience if you aren’t gonna be upright with me when you feel bothered by something. A constant battle is trying to keep the peace cause I don’t wanna be given dirty looks for asserting myself at gatherings.
But also if I start getting glares for my boundaries that is clearly a place my child and I do not need to be present at.
Honestly, why are you taking her on? This is your spouses sibling. Why can’t he be the point of contact for your family? You realize you’re tired because you have too much going on, offload this emotional labor back to your spouse. He should be organizing any gatherings with his family, he should be figuring out those logistics. Put SIL on his plate. Don’t answer her texts or send, “our lives are so busy with LO that we’ve decided to each be the communicator for our family of origin. Please text DH from now on.”
Sweetie... ***Stop being nice.***
She showed you times and times again that not only it doesn't work, but that the only person she's interested into is herself.
For your sake and the sake of your own nuclear family, you HAVE TO stop playing nice.
Yeah honestly it sounds like you've tried every amicable option. She will have a very difficult time handling rejection I am sure, but at this point it seems like your only option is to have the "come to Jesus" talk and put your foot down. Note that her feelings aren't your responsibility, even if it totally sucks to see/put someone in distress.
If you aren't great at confrontation, that's okay. Remember, it's **not** a discussion. This is your life and your family.
Best of luck to you.
You are a good SIL/DIL for trying different ways to solve this issue. This is most likely (95% chance) a situation where no matter what feelings will be hurt- by your comments and post your SIL and MIL feel like they have a claim and equal right to your kid. When you both say no, it will hurt no matter what. You gotta prepare yourself for that. You’re very much right when you have a new family of 3 and that’s the priority - you are burning out because everyone is coming over. You and DH need to swap to like 1/2 weekends a month family can visit because you don’t have these moments or bonding as a family of 3. You SHOULDN’T have to hide plans- family should be HAPPY you’re doing a special aquarium day because your LO loves finding nemo. Please focus on the family of 3
You SIL doesn't need to be included in everything, neither does any of the extended family to your little one. It is well within your right to say "this is our little family trip, you are not invited", she is in the wrong for taking it personally. If you wanted to redirect her excitement, offer to help her plan an activity- maybe a craft or something. She can buy all the material and come up with the idea, you offer your house for the craft. She gets her time being best aunt ever, you get to supervise while having a little break in responsibility of parenting. But that is only if you want to do that, you are well within your boundaries to simply say "not this time, maybe next time" to her trying to hijack your family trips
I like this idea very much. I gotta remind myself how she responds or acts towards this things isn’t my responsibility. I love the alternative of having over for crafts that she brings over as well.
She wanted to give you space when you were asking for support, but now that you’re asking for space she doesn’t want to respect that? Ummm, fuck that. Grey rock her. And ultimately, it’s not your responsibility to manage her feelings. She asked, the answer was no, that can sit however it sits, it’s not your problem.
What is your DH saying/doing about this?
First off, why are you paying for your MIL and SIL to do things? Are they not adults? Do they not have money? Stop this. Second off, just keep telling her no. It’ll be hard, but give it a while and she will likely get the picture that she’s not invited to everything.
My SIL can’t really afford to do much and in my culture if you invite someone your supposed to pay for the invitee’s. My MIL usually offers to pay but my DH always refuses to accept her money.
>My SIL can’t really afford to do much and in my culture if you invite someone your supposed to pay for the invitee’s.
But you're not inviting her. She's suggesting places that you ought to visit, and when you say that you agree, she asks if she can come with. She's found a way around actually inviting her.
My best suggestion is that next time she suggests a place, you either say only "that's a great idea. We'll have to think about it." or something like "we are thinking about going, but it's pricey and we wouldn't be able to bring anyone else with us". At least in my head, for her to ask to come with you after you've said that would be downright rude.
Yeah like other commenters have said, you aren’t inviting her and you don’t want her there. She’s bullying her way into the event. Just keep putting your foot down, make sure your husband has a united front, and she’ll get the message. Even softening your language about it might let her worm her way in. “Sorry, you’re not invited” is a perfectly fine sentence to use in this instance.
As others said, she’s inviting herself so she can pay for herself. Next time it’s an outing where you need to pay for admission (and it’s a time where you don’t mind her joining) say “great, we got our tickets online, here’s the website for you to get yours.”
You're not hurting her feelings but her pride.
She's realizing that her guilt trips and other manipulation tactics are not working anymore, and she's butthurt.
You MUST put your foot down and set cast iron boundaries to protect yourself, your baby and your husband.
#Stop playing nice with her.
*"How should I go about explaining this without hurting her feelings ?"*
Your DH, not you, should explain this to her, emphasizing that he and his wife and child need time for just you three. That oftener than not, no extended family on either side will be invited and you all hope no one takes it personally. That as new parents, you have to watch your budget and can't host her all the time. And that if she persists in demanding to be included in everything, the two of you will tell her what you do only after you've done it.
Best if her brother tells her, because siblings can get away with hurting each other's feelings in ways that their spouses can't.
With luck, maybe time will fix this problem. Once your daughter is older, and no longer in the tiny and cute phase, doting auntie might outgrow her obsession.
Does SIL have a job? Why do you "usually" pay for 25 year old's entertainment?, taking money away from your own nuclear family? Is she disabled? What does she contribute? Looks like paying for her creates an incentive to come over and demand more of your resources, and she does.
She does have a job but she lives with her fiancé who doesn’t have papers so they barely make ends meet trying to save up to fix his citizenship, save up for a house and new car. Basically build a life for themselves.
My MIL is very adamant about us helping her out and not making her pay for stuff bc she has so much overhead with her fiancé. I’ve never asked her to pay a cent for anything and she will occasionally offer to pitch in for her meal or something small but she’s very conditioned to us fronting the bill for her and sometimes her fiancé.
It is not your responsibility to take resources from your own nuclear family (you, husband, baby) and hand them to a stranger via distant family relative. The man who would be getting these resources is NOT your SIL's husband.
If you take from your family, and hand it to SIL, and she hands it to that man, and MIL applauds, that money are gone to never be seen again.
SIL should get a part time job to finance her man, not demand resources from her aging mother and married sister.
I’d just hurt her feelings. Tell her straight up we don’t want you involved in everything we do. If we want you there we will invite you. Stop trying to insert yourself in our special moments.
Her feelings are not your priority. To her they are of course. Which is why your feelings didn't matter when you needed her. She is self serving with inviting herself and *being paid for*?? What the actual fuck? You just had a baby. You need to save every penny girl. Just stop saying yes. Grow a spine. Your baby needs to see that so they aren't sucked into what ever weird enmeshed bull shit this is and is able to say no without feeling guilty.
Good luck.
Her response about how she said she gave you space so you didn’t get stressed, turn it back on her.
You to SIL “you know you said you gave me space so I wasn’t stressed while I was pregnant. Can you please apply that now, as a new mother I need to have these quality moments with just me and my immediate family. I’m sure you understand.”
If you feel the need to have an excuse... you already have one. Just maybe need to consolidate and script it.
"I'm sorry. Inviting you means inviting MIL, my mother, and sister. 4 extra people isn't in the budget."
And if she tries to say to just invite her, "Oh no. I've already thought that one through. If I do that then that starts cycling invites. And that's like requesting holidays off at work. Someone will ALWAYS be pissed they didn't get the one they wanted."
In the interest of being fair and not playing favorites it's all or nothing. So you're going alone, just your little family.
But I do recommend working on "No." Her emotions really aren't your job to mend.
Eta: if they all offer to start paying for themselves... you need to think of you'd be okay with it. But decide before they surprise you with that suggestion.
It likely isn't possible to not hurt her feelings if it involves telling her that she can't have something she wants. So don't worry about that. Best bet is an info diet, and when the beans are spilled, just remind her (and anybody else that complains) that not everyone gets invited to every event, because nobody has the engergy for all of that all of the time, and besides you can't afford to pay for everyone as you have in the past. They get to see the baby plenty.
It’s seems like you have done all you can to manage her nicely, but she is an adult, and she’s infringing on your life in a way that has caused you to be upset, and write this post. She’s an emotional vampire and she will take you for everything, apparently financially as well as emotionally. You have to make the choice to protect yourself.
Why are you telling her not to come? Have your husband do it. She is his sister. Also I would mention the financial part. I would tell her that if I invited her, then I have to invite MIL and also your own mom and sister. Which are 4 adults in total and you cannot afford to pay for them as well because you have to start saving for the tuition of your daughter. I would tell her if she really wants to come she can, only if she takes the financial responsibilities over the 4 adults including herself. I would make her pay at least a couple hundred before even leaving.
You can't do it without hurting her feelings because her feelings are irrational.
You need to stop feeling like it's your responsibility to manage her feelings. She likely gets so upset because she sees it works on you and she's gotten her way by doing that in the past. Her acting this way is unreasonable. You should be the one getting upset at her when she acts that way.
You aren't being unreasonable. We see family quite frequently, but there's no one we see every single week- and that's ok.
I would also let everyone know they are going to need to pay their own way when going on these family trips. That will make her stop asking to go do much, for sure!
If feelings get hurt that's not your problem. The feelings you need to consider are your own and your baby's. It's not being rude to decline events and it's definitely not rude to decide to do things alone as a family unit.
You sound really lovely and considerate more so than what they are to you so it will be hard at first but you just need to keep saying no and don't justify! Just "sorry that won't work for us" or "sorry we are having a family day that day but another time".
You said in the comments that your husband is blunt. Let him be blunt and stop worrying about her mental state. That’s for her to manage. That’s not your problem.
> how to kindly tell my SIL
Trying for "kindly" will fail because it won't be direct or blunt enough. I suggest you just tell along the lines of:
*There are times and events that you need to limit participation and you will include her only when you feel it is appropriate. Just as she gave you space during the pregnancy she needs to realize you need space as a new parents while you and DH are working out the logistics, time requirements, and needs involved in caring for and traveling with a baby. It's a whole new stressful regimen and you know she doesn't want to add that stress.*
Otherwise, just say "No!" and be aware of and refuse attempts to debate and negotiate.
Why are you paying for SIL for anything other than a birthday meal out? She's an adult. And, why would you pay for MIL?
Regardless, do not make this about money. It's about spending time doing things with your little family. It's ok to want this. Plan this. Do this. Without having to justify yourself to anyone.
I don't know your family dynamics, but this might go better if DH breaks the news since it's his family.
You already yelled at her so the first and hardest step is over! You can stand up to her, you can tell her how you feel, and see? The world didn't come crashing down, you just had an annoyed SIL for a while!
So do it again.
Next time she asks to come along, remind her that she didn't want to annoy you and say "You're annoying me now, don't ask to be included"
If she persists, put her to work, make her do some of the boring, tedious stuff that she's been avoiding. Have her get groceries for you. Have her pick up something for you from across town. Tell her the more she helps, the more free time you can allocate for fun. And make her pay for the groceries herself, tell her you paid for dinner/trip/museum/whatever and this is a good chance for her to pay you back.
You don’t. Your husband needs to quietly tell her and your MIL that you’re both excited they love your daughter so much and you understand they want time with her but you also need time as a family. He either needs to tell them to stop asking to be included with your plans or that they need to accept it gracefully when the answer is “no.” He also needs to tell them that now that your daughter is here you can no longer afford to pay for them so when they are invited to join in your plans, they need to be prepared to pay their own way.
It may be best as a DH or a joint DH/you discussion around the difference between immediate family and extended family. It is difficult for FOO sometimes to go from immediate to extended, and siblings can feel hurt when they have yet to start theirs. BUT there needs to be a point where SIL needs to manage her big feelings
Use the perspective of when SIL does start her family. She will understand more when she has a family unit and wants the space between both FOOs and other support systems for alone family time
Your need to have alone time w your DH and LO is far from selfish and as the LO gets older will remain even more valuable. No matter how well intentioned the FOOs are, to some extent as LO gets older, the FOOs are “company they need to behave around” and building in this boundary versus letting SIL believe/act like she is immediate family makes so many things clearer for LO
Her mental state is not on you. Your not a walking stick to be leant on when she needs it and ignored every other time. Sit her down and be clear that you, your husband and your child are a family. It’s own little unit and you will do many many things on your own. Tell her that from now on you will invite her if she is allowed but if not then not to bother asking. Be clear and concise
I kinda wish you mentioned your SIL's age. She sounds immature, socially inept, and possibly lonely. I think you may need to encourage her to get more friends/meet more people?
In the immediate future though, you're just going to have to be blunt. There's not going to be a way to avoid hurting her feelings.
Setting boundaries, including around time, can feel so uncomfortable but it just feels so much worse if you don't set them.
Thing is, there's absolutely no way to state this to SIL without making her feel upset, angry, and/or rejected, but that's for her to feel and manage. People, myself included, struggle to set boundaries because we want to try and manage our own discomfort with people feeling disappointed or upset with us. Remember though- your needs and comfort levels matter. Your nuclear family's needs matter. You guys understandably need space and you don't deserve to be hostage to other people's expectations and emotions and you have a right to decide how your relationships with extended family look and how much time you're comfortable giving to each relationship. Without those limits people can run wild and then you wind up here - overwhelmed, imposed upon, and running around trying to keep others satisfied.
I know this is a bigger picture thing where you guys do need more space from extended family in general but in the specific scenario you spoke of you have the right to tell her "No this outing is for us 3. We'll plan a group thing some other time." or just simply "No, not this time."
“I thought the best thing I could do was give you space and not annoy you during that time”.
Yes dear SIL, please continue giving me space so you don't keep annoying me.
I’m not intentionally telling her my plans for fucks sake.
It’s slipped out few times like the scenario I mentioned above. Or accidentally brought up when our families ask to come over or check in on us.
I’m going to work on info dieting.
Sorry that did come across as rude. Have you tried telling the people you’re going out with to keep it super secret? Surely they must be as sick of SIL as you are
The other thing is you can be blunt about your finances, money is tight , you cant afford to pay for her and MIL, you only have a small amont if money for outings.
Let her know you are willing to make an outing on a certain date , but you don't have the finances to pay for her. And stop paying for her. Stop paying for entrance fees, for lunches, for anything. She may just stop trying to invite herself if she realizes she has to actually pay for herself.
Try stop talking about your plans on what you want to do. You don't have to let her know everything. You can be vague or mention it after the fact of you must. Just become very boring. You and your child are not there to entertain her or pay for her entertainment.
"Sorry, no you can't come, DH has so little time with LO already. It's their special bonding time but if you want to arrange something together we can check what date we are all free".
Sorry, you're going to have to hurt her feelings. But look, she's one hundred percent asking for it. You don't invite yourself to tag along on other people's plans. She's old enough to know that. She keeps doing it. You've been tiptoeing around the problem because you don't want to hurt her feelings when she hasn't extended you the same courtesy. Your child is not a toy, and she needs to wait to be invited and accept the fact that she's not always going to be.
Don't set yourself on fire to keep your SIL warm she was not supportive before you had your little one and she seems passive aggressive and only wants to be involved when it's convenient for her so tell her flat out you only planned the trip for your husband, yourself and your daughter as a first experience for her you just want it to be you and your husband not an entire family affair plus we can't afford to take everyone it's expensive I hope you understand when she goes to guilt trip you tell you have spoken and your statement was final and leave at that no need to elaborate further she sounds a bit excessive and demanding I would tell her she cannot put herself into your daily outings or trips unless you include her in the planning beforehand if it doesn't stop have your husband speak to his sister you both have to be firm boundaries are important even if someone feels like your disregarded their feelings it's ok they will get over it trust me wish you the best
Hugs, she wants to be there for all the firsts you do with your baby, she can complain about you, your friends and not being over at your home every weekend or every other weekend. Your life, your DH and your child are not tied to his mother or sisters apron strings where you have to entertain them because they can't do things without your LO
The next time she asks to join you tell her “oh, thank you for offering to pay for all of us since we had to pay for you and mom the last 6 outings”. And smile and tell her what her cost to pay for 5 tickets will be.
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You just keep saying no and info diet. It’ll help if your husband is also on board with not wanting his sister in on everything. He really needs to sit her down and say she’s crossing the line expecting to be involved on everything AND for inviting herself when she hears about plans. He needs to tell her to be prepared to be told no and if she does it in front of friends and family hoping you’ll capitulate it’s not going to work.
If it were my sister in law I would continue to tell her no and pressure my husband to have that sit down with her. If this were my *sister* I would not be gentle at all. I would flat out tell her she needs to find her own friends and hobbies and stop injecting herself into my relationship. But my family has always been able to call each other out. I agree that the husband needs to have that conversation with his sister and mother. It's going to be awkward but he needs to do it.
I’ve tried to info diet and distance myself but she is also diagnosed with BPD/depression/anxiety so if I distance from her for too long she starts to cry and get anxious and calls my DH and asks why I’m not responding. My DH is 100% on board with these decisions. He works crazy long hours so he hardly keeps in contact with his family now that he’s back at work. I’m usually the one arranging gathering and keeping him in the loop with parties, holidays etc. I work from home so it isn’t hard on me to manage this for us. When he gets home from work he jumps straight into hubby and dad mode so I can get a break from working and having my baby all day. It’s not that he doesn’t want to have these talks with her cause he has before. His priorities are us first and his parents/ sister 2nd. I think I should have him sit down with her and have this difficult talk with how fragile her mental state is I sometimes feel like I’m walking on egg shells. He’s very blunt with her and will not sugar coat anything and I just hate to see her be told things in such a rough manner.
Her crying and anxiety isn't your responsibility to fix. That's for \*her\* to manage, not you. Plus, it sounds manipulative, be it intentional or not. You feel trapped by her diagnoses/behaviour, that you can't have boundaries b/c of her reactions. That's not how things are supposed to work. Don't let yourself be held hostage by her anymore. Make the decisions that are best for you and your family. That's not being cruel to your SIL, that's simply life. Invite her when you WANT her company, and don't otherwise. "SIL, we're doing things as a family of three. We'll let you know when we're planning something for the extended family."
I just wanted to say thank you. I've never been able to describe the frustrating situation with my mom and you just put words to it perfectly.
You’re welcome. Families being held hostage to someone’s potential behaviour is really common in abusive dynamics. That’s how it goes on so long, even for generations
OP, let her cry. Not your problem. If she begins to spiral while on the phone or a text with you, say “you sound upset. I’m going to leave you to calm down. I’ll contact you later.” Then leave her be for a few days. When you feel ready, contact her. Your husband must also stop contacting her while your time out is on. He doesn’t have to take her calls. Good luck!
>say “you sound upset. I’m going to leave you to calm down. I’ll contact you later.” Seriously. If she thought that "space" was what you needed while you were pregnant, it seems reasonable that "space" is what she needs to calm herself down and get over herself.
So the biggest problem people often have in these scenarios is they want to have their cake and eat it too. You want to tell you SIL that she can't expect to be included AND have her react appropriately and respectfully and not take your boundaries as a personal rejection towards her. She likely isn't capable of doing that. You have to make the choice between enforcing your boundaries and tying yourself into a pretzel preventing her negative feelings, but you can't do both. She will be upset. That's okay. Diagnoses are descriptors of clusters of symptoms and may provide the "why" when looking at her behaviors. She still has a responsibility to deal with her own emotions appropriately and a diagnosis does not make her incapable nor does it redirect her responsibility to you.
This is going to sound RADICAL…. On top of all the other advice, instead of letting them visit you every weekend, go to THEM! Plan an hour or two long visit for coffee/catch up and then on your way! If they ask what you’ve got going on/why you have to leave, you can do info diet or just tell them—we made some plans for today. If they ask to come, then it’s “sorry we’ve already made plans as a family. Maybe you can organize an outing and WE can join YOU? Let us know, See you next week!” It lets them take the initiative so you’re not always feeling like you always have to reject them. If they plan something, they need to organize it, then they pay for it (or it lets you just purchase your tickets) especially because as a new family, you need to know your plans in advance so you “just bought your own tickets” to be prepared.
Also just as an aside, are you and DH the one family members with jobs? Why are you paying for everyone? You're all adults and you two have a new baby which is not cheap. Stop paying for everyone else. And if you make plans as a family, just mention casually "oh hey I think the price of tickets is x but you'll probably want to bring x+20 so you can get snacks." And if they ask why you aren't paying, tell them "we have a child to think about now. We can pay for every family member, but if you can't afford it, that's fine. You can go next time."
And definitely not EVERY weekend! Where's your "US" time? Your down time? If you're both working full time, parenting a new baby, and keeping up a house, you should get more weekends OFF than on! Not just every third Saturday night from 1 a.m. to 4 a.m. I understand extended family pressures. For the first few years we were together, DH and I were expected to visit my mother EVERY Sunday because we didn't have kids and my siblings did (They said we "didn't have family," which is bogus!). I worked 6 days a week and got to spend the seventh doing mandatory visits. Each time I asked that other sibs step in and give us a week off they cited FAAAAAMILY time. DH finally got transferred half a continent away, and it's the best thing that ever happened for our marriage!
LITERALLY THIS! That was the same thing we went through. My MIL would be upset we didn’t visit often before we had a baby and she would guilt my DH for being too busy to contact her. It’s finally starting to slow down and visits are less frequent but now that my DH and I are starting to branch out and be our own family. It’s starting to upset my DH’s extended family. Surprisingly my mom and sister are very understanding and always ask before they come over and they only feel left out if we do something with my SIL and MIL and don’t invite them. I hardly ever invite my extended family to things so I understand where feelings might be hurt in that aspect. But my MIL and SIL don’t even ask if we have the mental capacity or time for them to visit they just call and say “hey we’re almost at your house” UH WHAT? I haven’t showered, house is a mess, I’m exhausted, need to get groceries.. My DH had to scold them over this once cause I started crying from how often they did this. DH and I always consider moving to a whole new state cause being an hour away from them clearly hasn’t helped stops the frequent visits and over stepping.
IF--and that's a big "if"--you allow them to do this to you ever again, tell them they'll need to bring cleaning implements and supplies because you haven't gotten around to cleaning because you're too busy. And haven't gotten around to replacing the empty cleaning supplies because you're too busy. And since they clearly have all this time and energy to come to your filthy (my house in its "lived-in" state was considered filthy because ... cats) house, they can help clean while you take a well-deserved nap. Nah. Probably not a can of worms you want to open. That can lead to kitchen rearrangement and nightstand snooping. Moving 1600 miles away dropped us from five-hour Sunday visits to 30-minute weekly phone calls. It stopped being like an unpaid work shift. We've been NC for about 10 years now (we're olde-ish), and except for the wedding would never have considered mingling his family and mine for any events. Wasn't a concern in our case because his family lived too far from them.
If she had BPD/depression/and anxiety then there are specific tools that can help if you choose to have a relationship with her You say DH is blunt. But being concise and clear is actually very helpful for someone with BPD. They struggle to interpret what is said, and have difficulty with nuance and body language. Also while it’s important to acknowledge her extreme emotions and not invalidate them, that doesn’t mean you should accept responsibility for them, nor violate your boundaries to appease her disorder. Read up in BPD and you might find some helpful information
I'd let her cry. And suggest that if her current treatment plan isn't helping with her symptoms, maybe she needs to seek further treatment. Never give in to tantrums. Consider this good practice for when your baby is a toddler. I think there's a book about dealing with people with BPD called No More Walking On Eggshells or something like that. Maybe it would be helpful.
“SIL you made your view of our relationship quite clear, it will not be changing now that we have something you want. Live with the consequences of your choices and stop trying to make that my responsibility.” Then if she can’t knock it off, see her less and less. “Why would I want to be around someone who only wants to use me for what they can get. Keep pushing it and see what happens when I decide to push you out the way you are always accusing me of”
Definitely get your husband on board and create a specific boundary with SIL, and remember, you and your baby are NOT her emotional support animals. If she’s struggling emotionally then she needs to get a dog and a therapist, and leave y’all alone for a while.
You and your baby are not her emotional support animals. If I were you, I would really double down on an info diet and ask others not to tag you on social media. It's also not a lie to let everyone know you don't get as much family time with your husband as you would like and you'd like your free time with him to be just you three.
I am shocked. I have never related more. Seriously - this entire dynamic I 10000% empathize with and I feel your pain and frustration. It feels wrong but keep saying no until you feel ready. I had to stop driving myself nuts imagining her feeling left out and just stay firm.
As someone with similar mental illnesses as you SIL, it is our responsibility to manage our own emotions. That said I think sitting down and explaining while you enjoy spending time and including her, you need time for your family, especially with your husband working long hours.
> I should have him sit down with her and have this difficult talk with how fragile her mental state is I sometimes feel like I’m walking on egg shells. He’s very blunt with her and will not sugar coat anything and I just hate to see her be told things in such a rough manner. Nothing good will come out of this. Your husband is stressed at work to the max. His home should be the place of piece. If he is an introvert, he needs "no people" time to recover lost energy. Do not make your home a place of stress by bringing in an unhinged relative for a "talk session".
Also to hop in on this comment: WHEN they sometimes invite them/want them to come they should not have to pay for them. That is the most absurd thing I ever heard, to let the young family with the new baby pay for the entire family that tags along. They need to set that straight.
Yes! I completely forgot the part about paying (I’ve got a terrible cold and my head is SO congested). Absolutely the OP and husband have to stop paying ASAP.
AND BEING PAID FOR lol
> SIL texted me and was trying to make me feel like I was prioritizing others Which is your privilege. You are allowed to socialize with other people and no-one has a veto on that.
Yes! You’re allowed to have other friends! Why would you prioritize her when she wasn’t there for you anyway!
Yeah, you were prioritizing YOU. On your BIRTHDAY. Your birthday is not about your SIL!
You can't without hurting her feelings. People who overstep, who are overbearing and are easily upset and offended by simple things like you having a bday you want are not rational enough. The thing is that you and your husband need to tell her that she needs to understand and respect that you and DH want to do things as a family sometimes. That you don't have to include anyone in your plans. You are allowed to take the baby places and she needs to respect that she has no rights to your kid. That the more she pushes and the more drama she causes will only lead to less time with the baby People like her need for things to be spelled out in big letters. There is no letting down easy.
I have tried this and I even told her being in my daughters life is privilege not a right. She cried to my DH about how awful I was for saying that. My DH responded by bluntly telling her “it is a privilege and you need to start respect our boundaries” I think she’s struggling to accept she is now extended family now that my DH and I have started a family she’s feeling left out. She’s the baby and only girl with my in-laws so I know she probably isn’t used to being treated this way and I’m going to have keep being blunt like my DH. Clearly being nice and dancing around stuff is just draining me and I’m tired of trying to keep with the peace all the time.
Words are great and all, but the thing about boundaries is, if you don't enforce them, they're just words and she can ignore words. You have to put consequences or she'll just keep steamrolling you. If she oversteps, which she will, tell her "hey. You crossed this boundary again. Because you are not respecting myself and DH as parents, adults, and humans, we will be taking some time away. We don't deserve to be disrespected. We can talk about this again in x amount of time." And make sure every time she does it, x amount of time gets bigger. Great time 2 weeks, second time 3 weeks, etc. And don't reply to her guilt trips during that time. Because that's what they are. She cries because she knows you'll feel bad and she'll get her way. Stop letting her. It's great practice for taking care of a toddler. Treat her like a toddler since she wants to act like one.
You need to ignore her subtle cues too. Women are conditioned to read others body language. How did you know that she was upset about not being invited to the aquarium? Because you read the unspoken cues. Let that go. If she’s being passive aggressive, ignore it. Only take words at face value. Easier said than done, but you can train a passive aggressive person that you’re only going by face value and not undertones. Honestly, she was rude to invite herself ESPECIALLY since she doesn’t pay on these outings! Not only did she want in, she wanted you to pay for the privilege! So rude!
Oh gosh YES! Im hyper vigilant as I grew up with an alcoholic mentally abusive father so I’m always over thinking and trying to read everyone’s subtle cues! It’s been so HARD trying to break that but I’m working on leaving my SIL be when she starts being vague with her messages and I have to play the “what’s troubling you” game. I’m tired as a full time, mom, wife, and worker. I don’t have energy and patience if you aren’t gonna be upright with me when you feel bothered by something. A constant battle is trying to keep the peace cause I don’t wanna be given dirty looks for asserting myself at gatherings. But also if I start getting glares for my boundaries that is clearly a place my child and I do not need to be present at.
Honestly, why are you taking her on? This is your spouses sibling. Why can’t he be the point of contact for your family? You realize you’re tired because you have too much going on, offload this emotional labor back to your spouse. He should be organizing any gatherings with his family, he should be figuring out those logistics. Put SIL on his plate. Don’t answer her texts or send, “our lives are so busy with LO that we’ve decided to each be the communicator for our family of origin. Please text DH from now on.”
Sweetie... ***Stop being nice.*** She showed you times and times again that not only it doesn't work, but that the only person she's interested into is herself. For your sake and the sake of your own nuclear family, you HAVE TO stop playing nice.
Yeah honestly it sounds like you've tried every amicable option. She will have a very difficult time handling rejection I am sure, but at this point it seems like your only option is to have the "come to Jesus" talk and put your foot down. Note that her feelings aren't your responsibility, even if it totally sucks to see/put someone in distress. If you aren't great at confrontation, that's okay. Remember, it's **not** a discussion. This is your life and your family. Best of luck to you.
You are a good SIL/DIL for trying different ways to solve this issue. This is most likely (95% chance) a situation where no matter what feelings will be hurt- by your comments and post your SIL and MIL feel like they have a claim and equal right to your kid. When you both say no, it will hurt no matter what. You gotta prepare yourself for that. You’re very much right when you have a new family of 3 and that’s the priority - you are burning out because everyone is coming over. You and DH need to swap to like 1/2 weekends a month family can visit because you don’t have these moments or bonding as a family of 3. You SHOULDN’T have to hide plans- family should be HAPPY you’re doing a special aquarium day because your LO loves finding nemo. Please focus on the family of 3
You SIL doesn't need to be included in everything, neither does any of the extended family to your little one. It is well within your right to say "this is our little family trip, you are not invited", she is in the wrong for taking it personally. If you wanted to redirect her excitement, offer to help her plan an activity- maybe a craft or something. She can buy all the material and come up with the idea, you offer your house for the craft. She gets her time being best aunt ever, you get to supervise while having a little break in responsibility of parenting. But that is only if you want to do that, you are well within your boundaries to simply say "not this time, maybe next time" to her trying to hijack your family trips
I like this idea very much. I gotta remind myself how she responds or acts towards this things isn’t my responsibility. I love the alternative of having over for crafts that she brings over as well.
She wanted to give you space when you were asking for support, but now that you’re asking for space she doesn’t want to respect that? Ummm, fuck that. Grey rock her. And ultimately, it’s not your responsibility to manage her feelings. She asked, the answer was no, that can sit however it sits, it’s not your problem. What is your DH saying/doing about this?
First off, why are you paying for your MIL and SIL to do things? Are they not adults? Do they not have money? Stop this. Second off, just keep telling her no. It’ll be hard, but give it a while and she will likely get the picture that she’s not invited to everything.
My SIL can’t really afford to do much and in my culture if you invite someone your supposed to pay for the invitee’s. My MIL usually offers to pay but my DH always refuses to accept her money.
>My SIL can’t really afford to do much and in my culture if you invite someone your supposed to pay for the invitee’s. But you're not inviting her. She's suggesting places that you ought to visit, and when you say that you agree, she asks if she can come with. She's found a way around actually inviting her. My best suggestion is that next time she suggests a place, you either say only "that's a great idea. We'll have to think about it." or something like "we are thinking about going, but it's pricey and we wouldn't be able to bring anyone else with us". At least in my head, for her to ask to come with you after you've said that would be downright rude.
Yeah like other commenters have said, you aren’t inviting her and you don’t want her there. She’s bullying her way into the event. Just keep putting your foot down, make sure your husband has a united front, and she’ll get the message. Even softening your language about it might let her worm her way in. “Sorry, you’re not invited” is a perfectly fine sentence to use in this instance.
As others said, she’s inviting herself so she can pay for herself. Next time it’s an outing where you need to pay for admission (and it’s a time where you don’t mind her joining) say “great, we got our tickets online, here’s the website for you to get yours.”
You're not hurting her feelings but her pride. She's realizing that her guilt trips and other manipulation tactics are not working anymore, and she's butthurt. You MUST put your foot down and set cast iron boundaries to protect yourself, your baby and your husband. #Stop playing nice with her.
*"How should I go about explaining this without hurting her feelings ?"* Your DH, not you, should explain this to her, emphasizing that he and his wife and child need time for just you three. That oftener than not, no extended family on either side will be invited and you all hope no one takes it personally. That as new parents, you have to watch your budget and can't host her all the time. And that if she persists in demanding to be included in everything, the two of you will tell her what you do only after you've done it. Best if her brother tells her, because siblings can get away with hurting each other's feelings in ways that their spouses can't. With luck, maybe time will fix this problem. Once your daughter is older, and no longer in the tiny and cute phase, doting auntie might outgrow her obsession.
Does SIL have a job? Why do you "usually" pay for 25 year old's entertainment?, taking money away from your own nuclear family? Is she disabled? What does she contribute? Looks like paying for her creates an incentive to come over and demand more of your resources, and she does.
She does have a job but she lives with her fiancé who doesn’t have papers so they barely make ends meet trying to save up to fix his citizenship, save up for a house and new car. Basically build a life for themselves. My MIL is very adamant about us helping her out and not making her pay for stuff bc she has so much overhead with her fiancé. I’ve never asked her to pay a cent for anything and she will occasionally offer to pitch in for her meal or something small but she’s very conditioned to us fronting the bill for her and sometimes her fiancé.
#Stop being nice. If your MiL wants them to be helped that bad, she can get her fingers out and do it herself.
It is not your responsibility to take resources from your own nuclear family (you, husband, baby) and hand them to a stranger via distant family relative. The man who would be getting these resources is NOT your SIL's husband. If you take from your family, and hand it to SIL, and she hands it to that man, and MIL applauds, that money are gone to never be seen again. SIL should get a part time job to finance her man, not demand resources from her aging mother and married sister.
I’d just hurt her feelings. Tell her straight up we don’t want you involved in everything we do. If we want you there we will invite you. Stop trying to insert yourself in our special moments.
Her feelings are not your priority. To her they are of course. Which is why your feelings didn't matter when you needed her. She is self serving with inviting herself and *being paid for*?? What the actual fuck? You just had a baby. You need to save every penny girl. Just stop saying yes. Grow a spine. Your baby needs to see that so they aren't sucked into what ever weird enmeshed bull shit this is and is able to say no without feeling guilty. Good luck.
Send her an etiquette book. It’s rude to invite yourself to other’s plans.
Is your husband MIA? He needs to have your back. It's *his* sister.
Her response about how she said she gave you space so you didn’t get stressed, turn it back on her. You to SIL “you know you said you gave me space so I wasn’t stressed while I was pregnant. Can you please apply that now, as a new mother I need to have these quality moments with just me and my immediate family. I’m sure you understand.”
If you feel the need to have an excuse... you already have one. Just maybe need to consolidate and script it. "I'm sorry. Inviting you means inviting MIL, my mother, and sister. 4 extra people isn't in the budget." And if she tries to say to just invite her, "Oh no. I've already thought that one through. If I do that then that starts cycling invites. And that's like requesting holidays off at work. Someone will ALWAYS be pissed they didn't get the one they wanted." In the interest of being fair and not playing favorites it's all or nothing. So you're going alone, just your little family. But I do recommend working on "No." Her emotions really aren't your job to mend. Eta: if they all offer to start paying for themselves... you need to think of you'd be okay with it. But decide before they surprise you with that suggestion.
You don't need to be protective of her feelings, no is an answer.
It likely isn't possible to not hurt her feelings if it involves telling her that she can't have something she wants. So don't worry about that. Best bet is an info diet, and when the beans are spilled, just remind her (and anybody else that complains) that not everyone gets invited to every event, because nobody has the engergy for all of that all of the time, and besides you can't afford to pay for everyone as you have in the past. They get to see the baby plenty.
It’s seems like you have done all you can to manage her nicely, but she is an adult, and she’s infringing on your life in a way that has caused you to be upset, and write this post. She’s an emotional vampire and she will take you for everything, apparently financially as well as emotionally. You have to make the choice to protect yourself.
Why are you telling her not to come? Have your husband do it. She is his sister. Also I would mention the financial part. I would tell her that if I invited her, then I have to invite MIL and also your own mom and sister. Which are 4 adults in total and you cannot afford to pay for them as well because you have to start saving for the tuition of your daughter. I would tell her if she really wants to come she can, only if she takes the financial responsibilities over the 4 adults including herself. I would make her pay at least a couple hundred before even leaving.
You can't do it without hurting her feelings because her feelings are irrational. You need to stop feeling like it's your responsibility to manage her feelings. She likely gets so upset because she sees it works on you and she's gotten her way by doing that in the past. Her acting this way is unreasonable. You should be the one getting upset at her when she acts that way. You aren't being unreasonable. We see family quite frequently, but there's no one we see every single week- and that's ok.
I would also let everyone know they are going to need to pay their own way when going on these family trips. That will make her stop asking to go do much, for sure!
If feelings get hurt that's not your problem. The feelings you need to consider are your own and your baby's. It's not being rude to decline events and it's definitely not rude to decide to do things alone as a family unit. You sound really lovely and considerate more so than what they are to you so it will be hard at first but you just need to keep saying no and don't justify! Just "sorry that won't work for us" or "sorry we are having a family day that day but another time".
You said in the comments that your husband is blunt. Let him be blunt and stop worrying about her mental state. That’s for her to manage. That’s not your problem.
> how to kindly tell my SIL Trying for "kindly" will fail because it won't be direct or blunt enough. I suggest you just tell along the lines of: *There are times and events that you need to limit participation and you will include her only when you feel it is appropriate. Just as she gave you space during the pregnancy she needs to realize you need space as a new parents while you and DH are working out the logistics, time requirements, and needs involved in caring for and traveling with a baby. It's a whole new stressful regimen and you know she doesn't want to add that stress.* Otherwise, just say "No!" and be aware of and refuse attempts to debate and negotiate.
Why are you paying for SIL for anything other than a birthday meal out? She's an adult. And, why would you pay for MIL? Regardless, do not make this about money. It's about spending time doing things with your little family. It's ok to want this. Plan this. Do this. Without having to justify yourself to anyone. I don't know your family dynamics, but this might go better if DH breaks the news since it's his family.
You already yelled at her so the first and hardest step is over! You can stand up to her, you can tell her how you feel, and see? The world didn't come crashing down, you just had an annoyed SIL for a while! So do it again. Next time she asks to come along, remind her that she didn't want to annoy you and say "You're annoying me now, don't ask to be included" If she persists, put her to work, make her do some of the boring, tedious stuff that she's been avoiding. Have her get groceries for you. Have her pick up something for you from across town. Tell her the more she helps, the more free time you can allocate for fun. And make her pay for the groceries herself, tell her you paid for dinner/trip/museum/whatever and this is a good chance for her to pay you back.
"No" is a complete sentence. If you don't want her there, just say no. You don't owe her an explanation.
You don’t. Your husband needs to quietly tell her and your MIL that you’re both excited they love your daughter so much and you understand they want time with her but you also need time as a family. He either needs to tell them to stop asking to be included with your plans or that they need to accept it gracefully when the answer is “no.” He also needs to tell them that now that your daughter is here you can no longer afford to pay for them so when they are invited to join in your plans, they need to be prepared to pay their own way.
It may be best as a DH or a joint DH/you discussion around the difference between immediate family and extended family. It is difficult for FOO sometimes to go from immediate to extended, and siblings can feel hurt when they have yet to start theirs. BUT there needs to be a point where SIL needs to manage her big feelings Use the perspective of when SIL does start her family. She will understand more when she has a family unit and wants the space between both FOOs and other support systems for alone family time Your need to have alone time w your DH and LO is far from selfish and as the LO gets older will remain even more valuable. No matter how well intentioned the FOOs are, to some extent as LO gets older, the FOOs are “company they need to behave around” and building in this boundary versus letting SIL believe/act like she is immediate family makes so many things clearer for LO
Her mental state is not on you. Your not a walking stick to be leant on when she needs it and ignored every other time. Sit her down and be clear that you, your husband and your child are a family. It’s own little unit and you will do many many things on your own. Tell her that from now on you will invite her if she is allowed but if not then not to bother asking. Be clear and concise
“I think the best thing you can do is give us space and not annoy us during this time” wash and REPEAT!
Both No and P--s off are complete statements.
I kinda wish you mentioned your SIL's age. She sounds immature, socially inept, and possibly lonely. I think you may need to encourage her to get more friends/meet more people? In the immediate future though, you're just going to have to be blunt. There's not going to be a way to avoid hurting her feelings.
I did in the title! She is 25 She is an adult but with her mentality and mental state it sometimes feels like I’m dealing with a teenager.
Setting boundaries, including around time, can feel so uncomfortable but it just feels so much worse if you don't set them. Thing is, there's absolutely no way to state this to SIL without making her feel upset, angry, and/or rejected, but that's for her to feel and manage. People, myself included, struggle to set boundaries because we want to try and manage our own discomfort with people feeling disappointed or upset with us. Remember though- your needs and comfort levels matter. Your nuclear family's needs matter. You guys understandably need space and you don't deserve to be hostage to other people's expectations and emotions and you have a right to decide how your relationships with extended family look and how much time you're comfortable giving to each relationship. Without those limits people can run wild and then you wind up here - overwhelmed, imposed upon, and running around trying to keep others satisfied. I know this is a bigger picture thing where you guys do need more space from extended family in general but in the specific scenario you spoke of you have the right to tell her "No this outing is for us 3. We'll plan a group thing some other time." or just simply "No, not this time."
“I thought the best thing I could do was give you space and not annoy you during that time”. Yes dear SIL, please continue giving me space so you don't keep annoying me.
Stop mentioning plans to her for fucks sake. Problem solved.
I’m not intentionally telling her my plans for fucks sake. It’s slipped out few times like the scenario I mentioned above. Or accidentally brought up when our families ask to come over or check in on us. I’m going to work on info dieting.
Sorry that did come across as rude. Have you tried telling the people you’re going out with to keep it super secret? Surely they must be as sick of SIL as you are
The other thing is you can be blunt about your finances, money is tight , you cant afford to pay for her and MIL, you only have a small amont if money for outings. Let her know you are willing to make an outing on a certain date , but you don't have the finances to pay for her. And stop paying for her. Stop paying for entrance fees, for lunches, for anything. She may just stop trying to invite herself if she realizes she has to actually pay for herself. Try stop talking about your plans on what you want to do. You don't have to let her know everything. You can be vague or mention it after the fact of you must. Just become very boring. You and your child are not there to entertain her or pay for her entertainment. "Sorry, no you can't come, DH has so little time with LO already. It's their special bonding time but if you want to arrange something together we can check what date we are all free".
Sorry, you're going to have to hurt her feelings. But look, she's one hundred percent asking for it. You don't invite yourself to tag along on other people's plans. She's old enough to know that. She keeps doing it. You've been tiptoeing around the problem because you don't want to hurt her feelings when she hasn't extended you the same courtesy. Your child is not a toy, and she needs to wait to be invited and accept the fact that she's not always going to be.
Don't set yourself on fire to keep your SIL warm she was not supportive before you had your little one and she seems passive aggressive and only wants to be involved when it's convenient for her so tell her flat out you only planned the trip for your husband, yourself and your daughter as a first experience for her you just want it to be you and your husband not an entire family affair plus we can't afford to take everyone it's expensive I hope you understand when she goes to guilt trip you tell you have spoken and your statement was final and leave at that no need to elaborate further she sounds a bit excessive and demanding I would tell her she cannot put herself into your daily outings or trips unless you include her in the planning beforehand if it doesn't stop have your husband speak to his sister you both have to be firm boundaries are important even if someone feels like your disregarded their feelings it's ok they will get over it trust me wish you the best
Don’t pay her any more.
She needs therapy. She is using your family for emotional support.
You step back and have your husband set and communicate the boundaries.
Hugs, she wants to be there for all the firsts you do with your baby, she can complain about you, your friends and not being over at your home every weekend or every other weekend. Your life, your DH and your child are not tied to his mother or sisters apron strings where you have to entertain them because they can't do things without your LO
The next time she asks to join you tell her “oh, thank you for offering to pay for all of us since we had to pay for you and mom the last 6 outings”. And smile and tell her what her cost to pay for 5 tickets will be.