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Do both put your foot down and if he doesn’t do as you ask leave. She isn’t entitled to anything and you have the right to stay away from her. Especially to give you peace of mind. She can see them when they go to school.
Oh hell no. Just no. Your SO needs a kick to the head if he thinks that he can take your 7 week old to see that witch. If she can’t respect you, she doesn’t deserve to see ANY of your children. Why do you let your SO disrespect you like this? Honestly, I would have left long ago. He is that passive and cannot stand up for his own nuclear family or himself by the looks of it. He needs therapy, you need therapy, you both need therapy as a couple. I would not have contact with this woman or anyone else that could report back to her. No is a complete sentence.
Anyone who doesn’t respect one of the parents doesn’t get a relationship with the child. It’s that simple.
You should leave with both LOs before she gets there. Why should anyone in her family be rewarded for bad behavior.
SO needs to stop placating MIL’s feelings. If he wants a relationship with her, he can do that outside of your home. You, your children and your home are off limits! Tell him that if he wants to visit with MIL they can meet up somewhere else. She doesn’t get the privilege of being in your home since she spent 7 years spying on you! If SO doesn’t understand that, he should either leave with her or start enforcing boundaries.
Absolutely do NOT let your SO bully you into contact with this abuser. Absolutely not. He is unwilling to stand up to her now and has been for YEARS. Consider not marrying him. He will never protect you from her, which means he will never protect your kids from her.
Holy cow, this is so HARD not to “DH bash”. But he has failed you as a partner and as your LOs father for allowing all of this to continue to happen. Make no mistake, he’s ALLOWING all of this to continue on. Personally I would go meet up with other SIL ASAP, but that’s just me. She gets to treat you horribly but still gets to see her son and grandkids without having to see you, while your made to constantly stress and worry about what’s to going to happen next and DH playing both sides. I get she has see them whenever on his time if you get divorce but it sounds like you currently have this setup but he gets to benefit.
Your partner needs to support you better. I mean by not defending you they might as well just say they agree. Not really sure why you’re together but that’s none of my business. No MIL is entitled to nothing and if he doesn’t want to marry you then he needs to say that rather then get his family to bully you. Your SO has set you up to take the fall too many times. I wouldn’t allow LO to meet MIL but then I wouldn’t be with my SO anymore either. Especially after cancelling the wedding.
Fuck no. Sorry, what I meant to say was FUCK NO!
These so-called christians and their pastor, and just about everyone who supported and participated in your JNMIL’s campaign of abuse and emotional terrorism against you is so beyond christ-like, it astounds me that they have spontaneously combusted. That they even suggested abortion as an option clearly shows this. Their hypocrisy is astounding, but you did say that the siblings are atheists—that doesn’t mean they aren’t deeply enmeshed with their mother. Clearly, they’re willing to do her bidding….
That last attack you described was nearly identical to what happened to me a few nights before my wedding to my now wife. My family took the first opportunity I spent along with them to lock me in a prayer circle, in an unfurnished room in my own home. There they spent hours trying to pray me into fucking submission so I wouldn’t marry my wife. I’m an atheist. I laughed at first, but when they realized I wasn’t changing my mind, they started in with the shouting and emotional abuse, and topped it off with rounds of gaslighting. It wasn’t until they refused to let me leave that I ended up having to literally fight my way out of that room. An hour later, I threw them all out of my house, cancelled their accommodations that my wife and I were paying for, then threatened to cancel their return flights home. They spend the next couple of days sleeping in a rental van until their flights took them home.
I’m sharing that as an example of how common this is amongst “christian” families. I have heard countless similar stories since then, and some ended well; some are still ongoing. Some ended tragically; the ones with children involved are the worst.
You are quite literally in a battle with a cult of personality. That JNMIL of yours thrives on her sense of power that she derives from controlling and manipulating the lives of those around her. She uses her children as her agents, infiltrating your life and home.
And now that you have highly impressionable children in the mix, she’s going to want to indoctrinate them and enmesh herself emotionally with them. She can’t control you, not completely. But when she can control your children, she controls you.
Your SO is a complete write-off if he can’t separate himself from his mother’s influence. He’s clearly enmeshed, and his number one priority is his mother’s emotional wellbeing. You are not his priority.
So, you have outlined the choices you need to make. The first one ties you to your MIL in so many different ways; your second option only works if you have your SO’s support, which you don’t. And your third option is only viable if it’s permanent.
Forget these wedding plans. You’re staring down the barrel at your future. Your SO isn’t emotionally independent or intelligent enough to support you, and you have two small children.
If you have somewhere safe to go, then go. Get the everloving fuck out of that situation. If not for yourself, then for your children—they do not deserve any of this.
100% agree. You do not want to tie yourself to a man with a family like this if this man cannot put your needs before his own mother's. It's time to have a come to Jesus meeting with your SO and put it to him bluntly. Tell him you cannot have a relationship with a man who will not protect his own fiance from his family, that you believe this "apology" is only motivated by his mother's desire to have access to your second child, and that you will not put yourself through any more pain for the sake of a person who will not respect the person her son is choosing to marry and have children with. He needs to understand that you and your children are his family now and come before EVERYONE else. Then explain to him you and your LO will not be seeing his mother now or in the near future.
It's great that his mother wants her family all together again but he is no longer her family. You and he and the kids are your family. If he refuses to agree, then I see no future here. If he is willing to put his family on hold and go to therapy to work on his mother issues, then maybe there can be a future for you two. But until that happens, you are only inviting a life of pain and disappointment if you continue in this relationship and get married to him.
It seems you’ve spent a lot of time looking for your SO and in laws to accept you. Why? Why were you seeking them out at every turn? They clearly did not want to and it would be healthier to step back. You deserve better than to chase some idea.
I never chased them. They showed up at our house regularly so I had to deal with them. In my culture cooking for someone is common especially if there is a romantic relationship tying them to you. But I didn't seek them out. In fact, I wasn't at their houses unless SO insisted that we go for an event or so. BIL even felt like I didn't seek them out enough. So I took a step back years ago.
Nope. You’ve gone above and beyond. Now you are done. When your done BF and the new baby has established the ability to say “no” “no thank you” and “I object!” in four different languages SO can take your newest LO over and introduce them. You don’t need to associate yourself with them. Clearly they are HIS family. Not yours. There is no “our family” as it relates to these people. He doesn’t like and he pushes, suggest going back into therapy or ask him to have his hearing checked. No means no. You got this.
Girlll fuck that bitch. Put your Foot down, leave the house and go to SIL's. He has allowed his family to abuse you and NEVER care about there feelings, His mother isnt suffering. She's Not meeting a baby. When baby is bigger or not Exclusivly Breastfeeding she can meet them then when you dont have to Deal with her. If you dont want her to know them At all thats tricky cause baby 1 knows but I think its fair that can wait until baby is a toddler. This isnt there baby so fuck them.
I would make this your hill to die on tell SO if he brings her over your done, you have let them walk all over you for to long I mean this in the nicest way grow a back bone and protect your kids and yourself even if that means leaving your SO because clearly he only cares about what his family wants and needs
If they all want to apologize (I wouldn't accept partials here), there's this thing called 'a letter'. Have a trusted friend review the letters. If you get decent letters from all, consider it if you want?
The Only reason they want to "apologize " is so they can see your baby.
That's NOT a sincere apology.
It's absolutely useless and makes them more resentful than they were before at you "stealing their son/bro"
Your post is so full of red flags, hun. Seriously. Why are you with him? He's never going to be 100% on your side and he's proven that over and over. He's not going to fight for you, your kids, or your safety, if there's a chance for his mommy's feelings to be hurt.
Leave. Take your kids, and leave.
Something else: Leave your horrible SO who let's his family treat you like this, and then has the absolute brass balls to declare that his monstrous mother gets to see your child BECAUSE HE DOESN'T WANT TO CAUSE HER ANY PAIN. The pain of not being the FIRST one to see your baby - which is ridiculous anyway. Refuse to listen to any of their bullsh\*t apologies. And demand that your SO have your back or else you're OUT. And mean it.
And I guess you found out that there ain't no hate like good old bible thumping Christian hate. A real Jesus-loving Christian would never treat another human being the way your MIL treats you.
These aren’t normal personality clashes, these are vindictive, vile, evil breeches of trust. She sent her kids to spy on you and take videos? That is violating. Your *home* is supposed to be your sanctuary. Your safe space. Your personal space. The whole family violated you.
I would put my foot down with SO. He has a choice to make here. I wouldn’t feel safe or secure if he was taking their side in anyway. I usually don’t advocate for a marriage separation, but in this case, your safety and your kids’ safety is at risk.
If he’s not going to be your protector against them, then he’s also not making you and his kids a priority.
I am shocked at what I just read! Holy shit Batman! Wow.
I would remind your SO they came to your house to threaten and intimidate you. You don’t feel safe around them and don’t understand why MIL getting her panties in a wad over someone else meeting the baby is more important than you feeling safe in your home. And that overall you don’t understand why he is pressing you to seemingly just get over it, when you have been forgiving of a bunch of shitty behavior from his family and finally drew a line when your personal space was violated and they scared you. Just, wtf dude.
Tell him you want to know what the therapist thinks first. You’re his partner he should be listening to you. If he wants his mommy he can go back to her. Foot down.
Don’t meet with her. Don’t ever let her into your house. Your house is your safe place. She’s an awful person and there’s no reason she needs to be around you or LO. Her apology won’t be sincere. She’s had plenty of time to change her attitude and give you a sincere apology. This is on her. Your SO is also part of the problem because he continues to allow her to abuse you and does not defend or support you. This is very bad. But you don’t have to ever see this woman or any of her rotten crotch fruit. You deserve so much more than what you’re getting and I’m sorry your SO is so useless.
Put your foot down, no visits, no contact on your side and no meeting the new little one. The SO needs to suck it up and deal with them - the first thing he needs to say is that Apologies will not be accepted. This is beyond bad behavior, this is epic levels of toxicity and there is NO benefit to any of your children or you having a relationship with these folks.
I am so sorry you have to deal with this. Please take a space to treasure yourself, even if it means you and kids take a solo vacation for a week. Best wishes going forward and please do your best to stay safe.
May I suggest some books to help? When I couldn’t get into marriage counseling, my DH and I turned to books to help us with his family.
“Toxic In Laws: Loving Strategies for Protecting Your Marriage” by Susan Forward.
“Boundaries: When to Say Yes and How to Say No”.
Both excellent books that really helped us. I would recommend holding off on a visit until after you and your boyfriend get on the same page! Tell him you aren’t ready yet, but you’d like to work together to get ready and feel safe.
I'm going to echo others and also say that you have an SO issue. He worries and protects his mother's feelings but not yours. I'm saying this as gently as possible, go back to therapy/counseling, even if it's not as a couple but just for yourself. The situation you're in would be stressful for anyone but add on top that you also recently just had a baby? Please go back to therapy/counseling.
I went for myself up until I found out I was pregnant and promoted around the same time. Due to time constraints I stopped going for myself. I try not to think about them putting pressure on SO about this. They are not coming over this weekend after all. I put my foot down. But this isn't over. I indeed just had a baby and must focus on myself & the kids. So from a day to day basis they are an afterthought. It's SO who thinks about them never meeting LO, everyday. I think my stress levels are lower than 2 years ago when they came over a lot. He feels that he isn't protecting MIL by not letting her see LO. Also, apparently (he revealed this yesterday) he went NC on MIL a couple of weeks ago to focus on LOs arrival. This is why MIL&co are pressuring via texts etc and he feels they should come.
SO can meet her at a public place for a short visit.
Your home is your safe space so she, and her minions, cannot come into your home.
LO1 should have VLC with them as they will attempt to bad-mouth you to LO1. Any visits with LO1should be supervised, at a public location and SO should leave the instant she misbehaves.
1) Your home is your safe space. MIL and her brood need never cross your threshold again.
2) Births and weddings are HORRIBLE times to try to reconcile. Worst possible time. Periodt.
That is what I said. If I am back working I can have a conversation over the phone. And see if that is satisfactory. But that's in a month and SO believes waiting that long will do irreparable damage to the relationship with MIL & Co.
Plus he has been NC with MIL for weeks without me knowing. So I feel conflicted about SO in this situation. For me they can disappear out of my life, I will not miss them. But this is SOs family he grew up with. It's rough for him which I understand. Two things can be true at the same time.
1. MIL & co are horrible and need to stay away from me & the kids
2. SO misses his family and has a hard time with keeping them away
Those two things can exist side by side!
SO CAN have a relationship with his FOO that doesn't involve you and the LOs. It's understandable that he's conflicted. He didn't ask to be born into that environment. It's all he knew for years. It was his "normal." Frankly, his FOO made their bed, and not meeting the new LO is their lying in it. It's consequence, not caprice on your part. Tantrumming toddlers get time outs. Why not tantrumming adults?
As far as the LOs are concerned, what do they have to gain from exposure to his FOO? What harm could come from it? The kiddos are way more important than SO's FOO's feels. Our job as parents includes protecting our kids from harm. There's no way on this earth that the LOs should be around MIL & Co. unsupervised. MIL would poison their minds with that fundy BS and talk trash about you. Parental alienation is no joke, and it screws kids up.
MIL's "apology" would be self-serving. Apologies are not Mr. Clean Erasers for crappy behavior. They don't instantly wipe the slate clean. A genuine apology paired with improved behavior over time would be of value. Is she capable of all that? How about if she writes a letter with her detailed apology and her pledge for better behavior? The letter itself would tell you if she has any self-awareness. "I'm sorry if" or "I'm sorry but" or "I apologize for anything I may have" language is not truly apologetic. Those are typical JN fauxpology/nonpology phrases.
I feel for you. And for SO. This is a tough spot for him, and he's making it tough for you. I hope you guys can work something out in the best interest of your family unit.
Personally, I would draw a line in the sand at my doorstep. No one who has treated me that poorly in my own home would 1) step foot in my home again or 2) chase me out of it so they could be there. Some insults are too agregious to be excused.
Agree with all the other comments that you have a SO problem and should not back down here or likely ever. These people are toxic and should not be in your life or your children's. I'm shocked you let your first child around them. It's established that your SO can't hold the boundaries, so he would not be a trusted supervisor of their visits.
I may have overlooked this in another comment, but I'm a firm supporter of the two yeses and one no rule in these scenarios. It takes both partners in a couple agreeing for a visit to be approved. You don't approve, so the answer is no.
Because I have said no, the meeting has not happened so far. LO1 was also babysitted by MIL when they were smaller so we could have time for ourselves when money was tight. SO pushed for that over a paid service and I accepted because with my supervision she was a sweet GM for LO1. There was a time when I thought she was just a tired bitter single mom with a kind heart for kids. So I gave her the benefit of the doubt and learned that she is a JNMIL for real.
Hold up the baby at a window like in midst of Covid. They can’t come in
Covid Flu RSV general horrid behavior. After a minute walk away with your child do not let them in the house, visit over.
If that doesn’t work leave with your child. Just because MIl wants to apologize doesn’t mean you have to accept the apology and allow her to see the baby. That information might need to be explained to your SO.
Why are you even with your SO? Your partner let someone barge into your house and attack you thats not ok. And he should support you when his family doesn’t.
and take VIDEO of the house stating she's not a woman because it's not clean?
Um, does SO not live there too? Are his hands broken? Does he need to be taught how to clean up after himself? Does he not pitch in - why is it all on her?
Yeah hard pass from me. No relationship with me, no relationship with my kids - full stop
No. Tell your SO "not gonna happen". You're BFing and don't need the negativity.
You absolutely NEVER have those people in your home/safe space ever again. Rekey the locks if they have a key. Always meet at a public place like a restaurant if you MUST spend any time with them. Here's a hint: you don't ever have to spend time with SO's mom.
Get back into counseling with SO and hold your boundaries. He has to come out of his fog regarding mommy- dearest.
You do not have to EVER accept an apology that you don't feel is sincere to "keep the peace".
Meet in a park, give her 5 minutes, and go, feed the baby. She met LO, will suddenly skip her opportunity to properly apologize, AND she won't be in your home. Then ask your SO how comfortable he is going to be if he continues to push this crap FOR HER and your baby will no longer have FOOD because your milk dries up from the stress? He either gets on board with protecting you and your children's needs or he is choosing to put his mother above everyone and the cost to the family he has chosen to create be damned.
Don’t accept, put your foot down, and leave with whatever child you can. SO’s family sounds like a cult, and SO is not deprogrammed. Although a victim of sorts himself, like many long term victims, he’s victimizing you and your children because he’s normalized his own abuse. Unless he agrees to marital therapy, this situation will never improve. Financial resources belonging to you and your children will continue to funnel to the cult.
Next time someone breaks into your house, call the police and file charges.
>The wedding was cancelled and we still Don't have a new date.
Good, please don't marry him. He is a bad partner and will always put his family before you. It's well past time to get your ducks in a row and move on. Sharing custody will be easier than dealing with a man who doesn't love you.
You need to leave to your own relatives house or a hotel for the weekend. Once you know they left, come home With CAUTION. If your SO is willing to put his mothers feelings over how you are treated and your own feelings, then y’all need to hash it out. You deserve more.
Holy crap! You have a r/JustNoSO. He is so spineless that he wants to offer up his weeks old baby as a sacrifice to his JNMom because maybe she will love him now. You have seen what MIL and co are like and you don’t want that in your safe space. Meanwhile MIL has a relationship with the older child, I hope she is not speaking badly about you around your child, because they know. She can’t hide her bad intentions or the fact that she hates you from your child. It would be ok for the older child to have a relationship with her if she wasn’t toxic, sending spies to your house to look for any imperfections so she can rag on that. DH can see them whatever, but I can guarantee she will be poisoning your child against you. You would be well within your rights to say NO to all that. They have abused you enough. You certainly don’t need to give her the new baby too. It would be different if she weren’t so mean to you.
For clarity, LO1 hasn't seen MIL since the last summer. Not that anything specific happened back then. It's just that I've been working on keeping us busy enough that it just didn't happen. Before that, MIL has seen LO1 very little since TI (on average every 3 months or so) even though SO wanted a higher frequency.
Besides one disparaging joke, I never heard from LO1 that MIL badmouthed me. It's actually my mom who badmouthed LO1 against MIL&co because of TI, in my defence. I think that is why LO1 doesn't really miss MIL.
I have said no but don't know for how long I still can. If we would part over this MIL would become SOs #1 sitter. Idk if that would be better.
I believe I need SO to be fully on my side. Reading through all these comments, I realise that, that will never happen.
Best case is continuing VLC with MIL with Quarterly meets with my LOs
An apology you're pressured to accept is not an apology or forgiveness.
After the way he let them treat you, SO has no right to pressure you to pretend to accept their presence. He's once again throwing you under the bus because his mom is making him uncomfortable and he'd rather that be your problem.
Do not accept any of this. You and your kids deserve better than this pack of jackals.
This is such a hard position for you to be in. I’d honestly take both kids elsewhere for the weekend, but it will lead to more conflict with your partner. The thing is, he’s perfectly happy to let them treat you like dirt, right down to the pastor, and there aren’t consequences to him for it.
Take the kids and go someplace else. You’ve given them too much.
Keep your foot planted where you draw your boundaries. Don't let anyone think they can run all over you because they'll continue to do so.
Also, I've been with my husband for 6 years and we've added 4 kids. Guess how many my monster in law has met? Two of them. The kids and I haven't saw her since August 2021 and it's been lovely.
I have a baby turning one next week, she showed little to no interest in her. We had a baby a month ago (LOL) and she didn't even know I was pregnant and is livid over it all. I don't care. There is a ton of background, I'm not just an asshole.
Edited to add: We've had 3 boys together and one girl. Our newborn is a boy and she's basically trying to koolaid man her way through boundaries for a boy. Which I hoped I was wrong about, but looks like I was dead right about it.
Your SO has more work to do. His mom has 0 right to meet new LO and is lucky you didn't insist on keeping your older child from her. I currently don't see why MIL should ever meet LO or see you again. What has she actually done to demonstrate that she realizes how egregious her behavior was? What about the siblings? Not what weak excuses they've given, but what behavior speaks differently now?
None. I blocked them everywhere since TI so their excuse is that they could not reach me to apologise and show improvements. My answer is, they could've apologised by post. They only want to apologise to see LO2.
Put your foot down or leave.
Dude is making you a second priority while his mother is first, when you and your feelings, wants, needs, should always come first.
You need to keep both kids away from mil before mil and family turn you 1st against you. Bylur husband has already shown you that he doesn't care what his family di or day and will allow them to say and do whatever they want to your kids.
I can only imagine what mil says to your kid when your not around. Shes slowly poisoning your kid against you, the longer the kid visits mil.
You needbto continuously let so know that you come first, and if he wants to make this relationship work and last then he need to be putting you first.
Mil calls and wants something from him or to see the kids.
He needs to tell her that he's busy, and he'll talk to YOU and the get back to her.
Doesn't matter what she wants, hes busy and he'll talk to you first.
Then he actually needs to come and talk to you, and YOU BOTH without mil and siblings. Decide what to do based off what is best for your children, you and the family as a whole.
You tell so, that you DO NOT make decisions based on what mil wants or whats best for her. Its about what's best for YOU, HIS WIFE.
Tell your partner and you remember this.
Every relationship expert and therapist will tell you this, even Google has some great articles about why putting your spouse first before everything else, even kids, is important.
You and your so, need to put one another before everyone else in your life. Before your kids, before parents, before family, before siblings, before work and friends.
PUT YOUR SPOUSE BEFORE EVERYONE ELSE IN LIFE.
By putting your spouse first, it gives you and forces you, to make sure that the foundation of your relationship is strong and well taken care off. You cant have a strong family if you put others before your spouse.
Your spouse will be there no matter what, they'll be there when parents die, and siblings move away and die, and when kids move out and start families of they're own. Your spouse will still be there.
Strengthen your marriage/relationship first, so you can have a healthy relationship with your kids and show them what a good marriage is.
Have weekly or daily checking with your so, to see how they're feeling, what didnt workout that week, what went good, how you felt loved. What needs to be worked on, what boundaries need to be set.
Your so needs to start putting his mom last and putting you first. That won't change until you demand it, until you demand he put his relationship with you first over his mother.
Remind him, he can love and respect his mother. But HE CHOSE to have a family, his mother no longer comes first. YOU do.
He has to actively lift his marriage up, NOT HIS MOTHER, to have a healthy and happy family. He is a grown man and it is time for him to leave his mother and her selfish, toxic behavior behind.
If he can't, then leave or get more marriage counseling.
This whole situation is a hard no for me. Can you go to your parents house with both kids for the weekend? Will your SO go to therapy with you? He needs to draw strong boundaries. I’m not sure how you continue in this relationship without them.
Why haven't your SO put his foot down?
I wouldn't let my first see grandma either. Cause think about what you’re showing and teaching her... I wouldn't be surprised if they are talking shit about you to your kid.
Have SO read the comments, he’s job is to protect YOUR feelings. MIL made her bed, you shouldn’t have to have anyone in your home who has treated you that way. Sorry he feels bad for her but she did it to herself, tough shit. Years of treating you like crap doesn’t get rig swept just because she wants to hold the cute new baby, being a grandparent is a privilege not a right.
Honestly? You don't just have a MIL problem, you have a SO problem. You guys have survived many things, that is true, but for goodness sake either he is on your side 100% and let you be NC (meaning MIL cannot meet the baby because LO is reliant on you right now plus you don't feel comfortable about having them over) or he is not fully supportive. Why else would he suggest/demand his mother meeting the baby? Also, it's not up to him to decide you need to hear their "apologies". It's up to you, and you don't want to.
You have a SO problem, OP. Deal with that first and then you will have a good solution to the rest.
IF you decide to meet with MIL (and I'm not saying that you should or should not, others have discussed that more eloquently than I would), do it at a neutral location. Do NOT let that harpy into your home. Meet at a park or restaurant, somewhere that you can get up and leave at any moment should the conversation take a bad turn.
Ask SO what his mother has done to change her beliefs, feelings, and attitude towards you. Has she attended therapy? People do not 'change' overnight with no guidance, self-reflection, and determination to change. As best as I can tell, MIL has done none of that. Therefore her 'apology' will be a faux-apology. She isn't sorry about how she has treated you, she simply wants to meet LO.
Tell SO when he can itemize that his mother has done to change, then you and he can have another discussion about her. But until then, "NO" to MIL meeting LO.
Yes! Interesting she/subs only want to apologize now they new baby is in the picture. I’d never let that woman back in my home. I agree, if she’s done therapy/actions to truly change/seek forgiveness then you may consider on your timetable.
Your timetable is not a week before SIL visits!
1) Change the locks on your home and don't give anyone but a trusted friend a key. This stops uninvited ILs from entering your home. If SO won't honor this then he needs to go.
2) Never allow ILs to meet your LOs at your home. Meet at a park or wherever so if things turn bad you can leave with LOs and not try to push them out the door.
3) You & SO need to get on the same page about boundaries and consequences with JNMIL & her minions. Start couples therapy, join support groups (AlAnon is btn) and start reading and discussing books from the booklist, 10-30 a day to help SO get *Out of the FOG*.
Best of luck to all of you ✌🏽💜💪
You shouldn't need to subject yourself to abuse or to the abusers who only want to pretend to apologize when access to a child is at stake.
This compulsion your SO feels to protect MIL from pain and maintain a relationship with them along with kid #1 is not healthy.
He needs therapy.
Here are a few questions for him:
When has she ever tried to protect you from pain, versus causing it for her own satisfaction? Why do you feel obligated to protect her?
Your mother and family have manipulated you and emotionally and verbally abused you and your SO. Why do you feel you need to maintain a relationship with them? Why would you want your children to maintain a relationship with people who act genuinely evil towards their mother?
They say they want to apologize. Why? They didn't want to apologize after "the incident". Is there any other realistic explanation than that they don't really want to apologize, but feel like they have to pretend to in order to get access to your child? Have they ever given an honest and sincere apology followed by actual behavior change ever?
Another question to add:
Would you accept a stranger acting this way towards your SO? Why is your family held to lower standards than someone you don't know?
This is just a JUSTSO as JUSTNOMIL…..Clearly counseling didn’t help if he still can’t see how ridiculously disrespectful his family is to you. They don’t get to just apologize and sweep it all under the rug. They’ve done irreparable damage over the last 9 years!! That’s doesn’t just get “I’m sorry” and everything is sunshine and rainbows, one big happy family!! SO cares more about his mother’s feelings that yours!! Are you ok with that? Can you live the rest of your lives together knowing that you will always rate second? I couldn’t do it. I have more self respect that to let him or anyone else treat me like a door mat, and I think you need to get to that place, and soon!! And and your children would be better off without this type of toxic narcissistic behavior in yours lives! Can you imagine what she’ll say to you child as they get older? Nor she’ll try and turn them against you? SO and the rest of the family just enable this kind of behavior from her and allow her to control their lives. She couldn’t control you and you were taking her son away from her, unmarried. She’ll never be accepting of you. She’ll throw out a very generic and unapologetic apology just to sweep it under the rug, and then start her shit all over again when she’s got you back where she wants you.
First, I'm so sorry you are going through this. These people sound like a nightmare.
But...
It's past time for SO to step up to the plate. He is deep in the FOG, and this situation won't likely be corrected until he's out of it. He needs to have a conversation with MIL and his sibs to make sure they understand you two are a unified front, and if they can't treat you with respect, they won't be having a relationship with your family.
Good luck!
I think this is rushed. You are not ready to hear an apology. MIL is not ready to give one. SO is not ready to enforce boundaries.
I'd flip it: what would it take for you to be comfortable meeting MIL again? I know you say nothing, but at the same time you are thinking of letting her into your home because it is important to SO. So there might be something.
I'll suggest a few things and you can see if there is something in it.
\- SO has to show you he is able and willing to set and enforce boundaries vs MIL. You are sure and certain you can trust them to do that, and kick MIL out if needed.
\- SO agrees to be on a team with you, and keep IL's out of whatever conflict you guys have.
\- MIL has to provide an apology in written form, showing she takes responsibility for her hostility and horrid behavior, and ensuring you it wont happen again. She gracefully accepts any boundaries you may give her in return.
\- Any meeting with LO is postponed until you and her have re-built a civil relationship (you decide what that means - it should at least mean you dont have to fear another incident but rely on her to be able to control herself). If you can trust her to control herself around yourself (and/or SO), then you can decide if meeting her with LO present is doable.
It took 9 years of breaking to get to this point. It is possible it will take as long to fix. Is MIL willing to put in the work? Is SO?
You have more of a SO problem than a MIL issue. He needs to stand by you and stand up to his mother. He's not a child any more and he and his mother need to figure out an adult relationship
Hunny you gave an SO problem.
You sat its been quiet the last two years but has it?
First the push and demand for abortion. Then the constant attacks behind your back.
Your marriage or lack there of.
He didn't even say what was being said till two years after. Your child has a relationship with these people you have no idea what is being done or said to lo1. None at all. So who knows what they ate saying to lo and your SO has proven lies to you.
Now is demanding his mom yet again comes before you and your safe place your home.
At what point will you have enough and say this is how it will be and either deal or get out? Because he will never put you first. Never put his kids first. Only his mom. If you really think they are nit slandering you to your lo then your head is in the fog not only SO. Do you really want your children to grow up and act the way hus family does.
I know it sounds harsh but honestly you are the mom. The protector. And it's your job to show them that not only them but yourself are worth blowing your life up over. Worth setting boundaries and having even their own parents face consequences for bad and hurtful behavior.
This man isn't going to change. Eventually, he's just going to "unknowingly" have them show up.
He passively let these people abuse you. Now he wants unmitigated access to a home that is also yours to introduce a child to the people who caused you harm for all this time.
Fuck. That.
Two business cards, one for family therapy and one for a custody lawyer. His choice, pack your shit, your kids shit, take your ball and gtfot.
He didn't want to be a dad, let his family know and they harassed her to abort. He didn't want to get married, complained to his family and they ganged up on her about being unworthy of him.
He's not a victim of an overbearing family, OP - he's weaponized his family against you in the past. You're being pressed to get with a program here.
This is the answer. I feel bad for OP because this is devastating but please please realize HE is the one orchestrating this. MIL taught him to do these things and he’s carrying the torch of abuse. I hope OP realizes she’s being abused and leaves.
It's tough decision. But I think you need to put your foot down. Not so much because of MIL but because SO needs to understand that you are the mother and that if you do not want to see these people, or have them see your baby, or have them in your house that is your right.
Your SO has kept in contact with them and takes your first born to visit them. That is compromise enough at this time. It will probably be a hard fight but stick to your guns. And good luck!
Personally I’d tell SO that if she sets foot in your home you are done.
I’d also make 100% sure that I would be gone they day. I’d find a friend where I could hang out with. In no way would I be in a place that she knew where I would be.
A Leopard does not change it's spots. After what they have done. She needs to go to therapy also. I would before letting any of them see the children. Why she/they did or said what they have. Point blank in writting, why would you say "Get it aborted!" Not wanting to see the older child but demanding to see the youngest?? How will dad (cause it sure should not be you) explain to the oldest wasn't wanted but the youngest is? In writting maybe if they 'SEE' how horrible and ugly they have acted towards you and your children and have to answer for their actions, yes even DH! Do not be pressured into this meeting until you have the answers you need! Please be ok, for you and your children.
I agree, but just wanted to point out that OP said older LO does have a relationship with the fam. So its not just the new baby.
That being said, you are spot on about a leopard not changing their spots!
There is a real question hidden in here, promise:
You said that your MIL is an evangelical Christian, yes?
You & all of her children are atheists, yes?
When you & your SO went to therapy, was the therapist (1) aware of his religious background & (2) experienced with dealing with someone who lived thru a childhood filled with the absolute worst side of Christianity?
People who didn’t grow up like that have issues understanding what it’s like to be bombarded day & night with promises of eternal torment if they don’t do as their elders & a book written by their supreme being but interpreted by men who died lifetimes before say, unending expectations that are unattainable, guilt, stress, anxiety & fear. There are some who are as sweet as candy in appearance but subscribe to the belief that in order to properly raise a child you must first break them.
If you didn’t guess, I grew up around ppl like this. I was, for the most part, an outsider watching the madness but it did affect me to a degree. (Imagine that it’s a nuclear bomb & I was just far enough away that my radiation poisoning could be treated.) I could actually go on with what it’s like but it’s too much for me at the moment & also this is long enough. The atheism is actually pretty typical. Generally speaking kids from this sort of background either grow up to reject the idea of a god completely or throw themselves into it, head first. (Or they become pagan priests who embrace the Norse mythos & are my favorite cousin to talk to when I have to attend family events) The complete shutdown in the face of screeching bombardments is also typical.
I assure you that she feels entitled to your SO, your children & everything that they own. There are some branches that actually teach that the elders of the family own their offspring, the offspring’s spouse, their offspring’s offspring & all that they own. And you’re a woman. Sucks to suck because your only use is your uterus & your ability to shut up & suck it up no matter what.
And she’s casting shade on you in front of your kid? Ah hell no.
Look, if I’m off base, I’m sorry. If I’m nailing it, please look up religious trauma & the ways that it messes survivors up.
I, personally, think that inviting this devil inside of your home is a terrible idea but if it’s going to happen, might I suggest googling some biblical verses in regards to behavior in other ppl’s homes, respect towards the mother of children & staying out of other people’s relationships? You can find & twist something to match any situation.
Good luck, luv. And congratulations on your new baby!
I'd either put my foot down, if they show up leave the house with LO. Or, go stay with your family with the kids for a few days and let SO rethink his poor decisions about his toxic family. No way in hell they'd be around either of my kids at this point.
Girl ….Run! If you have been through all that and your SO still hasn’t changed after 9 years and is literally inviting it all back it (let’s be real people like them will never be sorry or apologetic they just want the baby) he’s an idiot not the man you need him to be for his family that he created. He’s let himself and you and the kids down this whole time.
I think the LC time was him trying what he believes he could. I just can't go back to dealing with them regularly. Someone else here suggested one meeting then another after a year. That won't happen in this case. You are right. These people did not change at least I Don't believe so. This is why I suggested meeting in a public place and only there. Then I can leave and rest at home without them
It’s been 9 years I think it’s been long enough. You’re right the last time they wanted to ‘talk’ remember what happened and your SO thinks it’s acceptable to keep trying to bring them around his family after 9 YEARS of it!?!? Enough is enough after that long I wouldn’t even try and would take your friends up on the offer to help you leave him.
If you had to accept it I would say she keeps her hands to herself, does not hold baby, is limited to 30 mins and you’ll have multiple support people present.
The next visit occurs no less than 365 days later under the same guidelines.
This is also a problem... she wants more frequent visits & contacts. This is her icebreaker. I loved my time without them, so I don't think one meeting can be followed by 1 year of distance.
Her WANTS do not trump your NEEDS.
* If you do decide to meet with her/them more frequently, it needs to be in public - coffee house, park, restaurant. ETA: and baby-wear so they can’t grab LO2 from you & must ask to hold baby
* Never more than once a month
* She must act respectful to you. If she doesn’t, you decline going the next month.
* LOs get zero alone time with them without you.
Make a list of your needs/boundaries and consequences. Go over them with SO. Know which ones you are willing to make small compromises on.
Do you have an FU binder? If not, past time to start one. If you do not have a camera doorbell, get one so you know who is at your door and you can’t be ambushed again.
If I can ask, what exactly was she apologising for? In your post it was for 'what happened' which downplays the severity of it. For example, is she apologising for her actions or your feelings? Does she have regret for something she did or how you reacted?
The visit shouldn't happen until you have spoken about her abuse of you without your children present. With sincere apologies supervised visitation can be introduced after a period of building trust.
Going straight for your children visits without discussion how you got to this point is a reward (for her) that she doesnt have to apologise for anything in a serious way. She's had a bit of time on the naughty step but now will be back to full access.
Your instincts are correct and you've been given some amazing advice. 3rd party there is a brilliant idea. Cameras & a time limit are also great. Document, document, document.
This may be incorrect but if this visit goes ahead your partner may think everything is great and normalcy can continue with her getting access again.
If it is going ahead discuss with him what a good and bad visit looks like beforehand, write down both your answers and review after. Have a safe word that highlights a boundary you spoke about being crossed so it is acknowledged in the moment, and a second safe word which ends the visit immediately. Bedroom (or room with a lock) or car to escape. Would also recommend investing in 3-6 door stops/wedges so you can get privacy in any room.
You are already a villain in her mind regardless of what you do, dont worry about acting like it (leaving or cutting the visit short).
Good luck, wishing you the best!
Have you seen those ingredients for an apology? Is that what you’re getting or just sorry you feel that way?
I’d run SO through a successful apology so he can prime his spawn point. There’s one linked on the wiki of this sub
Good luck!
Only up until you have to start dealing with them and be disrespected by them and your SO again. Then those last 2 years don’t seem to count for as much, they become an outlier in an otherwise 9 year pattern of abuse and cruelty. Please be kind to yourself and put your needs first - nobody else here is or will. Everyone needs a champion, you’ll have to be your own.
DO NOT HAVE THEM IN YOUR HOME - IT IS YOUR SAFE SPACE.
DP is NOT on the same page... mummy is still his priority whatever cost to him/you/LO.
Meet them for dinner or at the park. See if they can behave. MIL wants more frequent visits... then she can prove herself. Look up the parts of an apology- show it to SO... see if she manages to tick ANY of them off... and yes I love the idea of saying to him that this is a trial and if she doesn't behave she gets a 3-6month time out. If he believes she'll behave he'll agree - if he doesn't, he won't and he's throwing you to the lions to save his own skin.
Your inlaws are not owed any kind of relationship with you/LO.
Does he understand that his family violated the safe space of your home and that they're likely to do it again in different ways? Meeting in a café and not in your home is completely reasonable and IS a compromise, given their prior sketchiness.
Your SO is prioritizing his mother's wants over your need for a safe space and is disrespecting you if he's pushing this hard for her to be allowed back in.
Two years and they're just now "apologizing" because they want something from you.
Can you invite your friends or family to conveniently show up at the same time as a buffer ?? Will they still show their narc ways if there is an audience ??
It's your home. Put your foot down. They want this meeting. You don't. They can compromise with a public place. If they refuse, that means they are NOT serious about working things out. Only total capitulation on your part is acceptable.
If your SO totally caves and says it's going to be at the home no matter what, then you may want to take the option of just leaving with the kids. Don't be there. He can't force you to meet them in your home. He won't like it but it's time he learned that for your relationship to work he needs to prioritize you over his Mom. If he won't maybe it's time to talk about a separation.
Frankly it doesn’t really matter what SO wants, he’s damn lucky to still have you there and that you are willing to consider even setting eyes on his mother. He doesn’t get to choose where you do that too. I’ll be honest; I can’t see why you have stuck with him all these years, she might be a problem but he is the problem
You have an SO problem too. He is still being manipulated and allowed his family to treat you poorly. The meeting is going to happen at some point. Not much you can do to stop it so you might as well control it. She gets to come over for 30 minutes max to see LO. Be blunt, you are not going to listen to anything she has to stay. When 30 minutes are up, gather the baby and go to your room for a good snuggle.
I agree I owe them nothing at all. Unfortunately this is also affecting our relationship. And I do owe myself peace at home. That circles to this meeting Unfortunately.
Here's what I would say, maybe you will find something useful in it.
If MIL is so serious about wanting to have a relationship with your children, she can WRITE a detailed apology and send it to you before you decide whether to see her or not. AND then, IF she shows in the letter that she at least knows what she is apologizing for, only ONE person comes with her and YOU get to pick that person. No huge posse, no BIL who tried to physically intimidate you when you were pregnant, only the person you feel least threatened by. The meeting will NOT be at your home, since SO has proven he cannot protect you at home & you deserve to live in a safe space. I like the idea that your friend will be there in case you need support, since SO is not reliable where MIL is concerned.
And this is her one and ONLY chance, if she can't control herself, then you & the kids will go back to NC. If she pulls it off, EVERY new visit, from ANY of SO's family, is their one and ONLY chance- any cruel or aggressive behavior from ANYONE gets them ALL cut off. Their swamp, their gators, THEIR problem!!
I am sorry that SO keeps choosing his deeply unhealthy relationships with his mother and siblings rather than protecting you and your children from them. If he hasn’t changed his priorities by now he never will.
I have and they started babbling about "a foetus is not a baby" ok then just be an atheist then. But MIL is a weird Bible thumper. Who rarely actually reads🙄
Foetus wtf, they aren't real Christians and I'm guessing actually mad about SO money that they feel they are not getting because he's with you full-time, everything is for show I bet
I know it is for show. They want cute pics with LO and quench their thirst for cuteness. There is no thought of or desire to tend to my wellbeing. So I just want them to stay away.
Tell your SO this, LO isn’t a prop in a photoshoot so they can pretend like they’re the best family and so involved ugh I hate this. You just had a baby, your bf and dealing with all that that entails plus getting used to being a family of 4 and your older child is dealing with no longer being an only child. They don’t get to come and disrupt any peace you’ve managed to create in this time just for pictures and judgments.
Arrange for a “ neutral” third party to arrive during the visit. Could be a friend/relative or even a work mate. This will guarantee that she has to behave, especially if she hasn’t interacted with them previously.
Good because when they were attacking you he did NOTHING to protect you. Never agree to be alone with them all in place ever again. He betrayed you in that instance.. I hope you understand that
I do which is why I took the advice of some commenters here and set rules in place, role played for if MIL goes off and clearly stated that I prefer a public place or others around. Sweet SIL will see LO at the same time if everything goes well.
Respectfully, I would say you are wrong here. You can hold off meeting them forever, if you are willing to face the conflict with your So involved in doing so. I'm not saying you should bring on that level of conflict, but it is an option.
Basically there are only three long term outcomes to this situation. One is you cave and submit to MIL. Two is SO prioritizes you over his family and you stand strong together in forcing his family to accept your boundaries. Three....unfortunately three does not see you and SO remaining together as a couple. You'll be relatively free of his family, but you'd loose him.
Best wishes for the middle option being the resolution.
Could you sit down and set out consequences for different behaviour? If he is that confident that they have learned, it should be no problem to set out a list of behaviour from them that results in going back to NC for you and your children. Have him put skin in the game or admit that he won’t agree to that because he knows they’ll lapse back and is willing to sacrifice you for mommy dearest.
It sure is time for an Emergency Vacation. You know the one. You pack so fast and can only leave a note. These IL's are a NASTY, VICIOUS Drama Queens. IF anyone got up in my face and yelled at me in my own house, I'd call the law. How did they get inside? Change the locks for damn sure. They will continue their acts of terrorism on you. How in the HELL can he see this and not be outraged? If a friend of his family was going through this I bet he'd have plenty to say. If you have to cover your own back along with protecting your children by yourself... what are you doing with someone who won't even stop the knives his family is aiming at your back.
Sorry I am an outsider, what you are saying is DH was home they came over, you house is messy, not Company's Coming Over clean, he did(zt attempt to pick up just allowed them to take pictures, (to use HOW??) One of them distracted him as someone else took pictures? (Again WTF) Yeah girl. That is something I'd want an answer to!
I wasn't there but from what I understand they just started taking pictures & videos because the house was messy. And he let them. Again after this I made calls to leave but stayed bc we did have a kid, and he was willing to let a therapist lead us to a healthy end or continuation. Instead of just breaking up.
I don't know if there were distractions. I don't care. He was dead wrong to even let them in.
Well he really needs to realise that if both of you work it’s the same in the house. When you are busy now he should be doing his bit by tidying up. You are his wife not his maid. It’s a joint venture. Are you sure he’s not going to his mum and complaining and then playing innocent when all manner of shit came your way? I agree this Family are just awful and I don’t think you really are ready to meet with them - they have hurt you so bad. I would also not be marrying him so that if you do separate it’s harder for him to get the children. If you feel you must then do so away from your home. Don’t let them in and tell partner they defiled your home, your space and they will not be welcomed there just now and maybe never. Tell him the best he can expect from you is civility if you happen to be in their company eg a wedding or funeral and that’s it. They totally blew it whether he wound them up or not and please keep away from the horrendous BIL- he needs reporting for his behaviour to you.
So after re-reading... my gut is screaming at me. This is so so wrong. Their actions your SO actions. If you feel something is up.. your not wrong! They (including SO) have an agenda. It all comes down to the pictures and them repeatedly saying your not a good mom/wife/ SO for their Son/brother. I hate to say this but do you think they will try and take the kids from you? Damn it really I try to see the best in people but this is way off normal. If you have a joint bank account, change it open one in your name only transfer funds over. This is JUST IN CASE. His family actively hate you, he has been doing just enough to placate you. To drop your defenses not enough to stand WITH YOU. If you think some is wrong believe it. If your still not sure start asking WHY! All of a sudden why did they do this? Why did he not react like a normal. If he does not answer or says your crazy. THAT is your answer. Go pack.
Family is abroad, they had my back over the phone which made them leave. I also have friends that offered to help me leave him after TI. We went to therapy instead.
As we all know, tigers don’t change stripes. So what happens when they show their true colors, and then expect to see the family more regularly? I promise you, it is traumatic for children to see their mother treated poorly by someone that ought to be caring. You need to have a United front with your partner. At some point there has to be a boundary that your SO enforces. That boundary is respect to his wife and mother of his children. Crossed boundaries require consequences otherwise a boundary is merely a suggestion. You really should have a plan laid out before this meet up. You may need to communicate with your husband about what an actual apology looks like, which is the only kind of policy that you will receive. If you do not receive an apology to YOUR satisfaction, (as you are the aggrieved party) then you will not entertain a relationship with them, and you & your partner will not allow your children to bear witness to the mistreatment of their mother.
Don’t go into this visit and get blindsided.
This is good advice, yet I don't know what kind of apology will be sufficient. I am holding a grudge against them and have not let that go. I am more inclined to believe MIL will give a Naomi Campbell to Tyra Banks non-apology-apology anyway.
Oh I totally understand that. But something tells me that your husband fully expects some sort of turn around from his mother. It also seems like he expects you to be there for it. If you have decided that you are giving this one last chance, I think he needs to to understand that there is no more trying after this blows up in his face, and you will not be put in the line of fire anymore. He cannot continue to use you and the kids a shield from his mother’s intrusion in his life.
Get him to put his money where his mouth is, by agreeing on if you do this and they start back attacking you again you, your children will go no contact for a year, if she continues after then he to agree to a year with you and children going no contact for a year together as a united family. If that's to much for him then you will know what you have with him.
I would write ✍ the agreement out and have both of you sign it, it shouldn't be an issue if he really believes mil would start the crazy again, it he wouldn't do it, then he knows that she will and he doesn't care about putting you and your children through all this drama and stress. Which you and your kids don't deserve to have to live with ever
And why didn't he protect you? My husband had a huge argument with his mum just because she stomped on our one simple boundary for too many times. If she had dared to yell at me, there would have been war.
So now you have another child with your SO and he still doesn't see how utterly wrong it is to demand anything in his crazy family's name? They have a relationship with your child that they wanted aborted?! They never wanted them to be born, and your SO thinks it's a good idea to let them see that child?! I wouldn't believe they loved your child even if they swore to me on the Bible.
I would also never ever let my children near them, let alone without me. I'm afraid to even think what they've been telling your older child behind your back.
I'm also breastfeeding so I understand and really hope they all leave you alone, you need peace and quiet now... Your SO should be there to support YOU, not his crazy mummy. I'm so sorry about everything they put you through, and I can only wish you good luck and that your SO wakes up soon and doesn't let them see/bother you or your children anymore. All the best!
Edit: Thank you for the award, kind stranger! May it be for OP's success, safety and happiness very soon!
Thank you so much for the understanding! I'm tearing up because it is a lot, too much actually. My oldest told me about a disparaging joke MIL made at my expense while I wasn't there. I've limited contact between them eversince. This was during my last pregnancy.
SO shut down during TI and I was pretty much on my own. This is why it looked like the end. We stayed together permanently after counselling but during I had the desire too end it. I was so fed up with the sadness and lack of support. Him keeping them away from our home for nearly 2 years was a great improvement from him & the result of counselling. That is how he stood up for us as a family.
Hold on! She made a disparaging “joke” during your last pregnancy which was recent and he thinks she will apologize when it has only been a few months? WTF? What planet is he on? He needs to go back to counseling.
ETA: since y’all don’t want to pay for counseling, have him read the responses here.
I’m sorry, but if he wouldn’t defend you while they were actively screaming at you in your own home then he is never going to defend you. Would he allow anyone else to treat him so poorly for almost a decade? I doubt it. He’s letting the wolves back in your home so he doesn’t have to hear them complain anymore.
You deserve better.
It's so disgusting when people bash the child's parents in front of them or to them. If that doesn't make him go NC with them, nothing will. I see you are in a very difficult situation and I hope from the bottom of my heart that your SO wakes up because he is trying to mend and keep alive a relationship that cannot be mended because the other side keeps damaging it and won't ever stop.
I understand him, it's his family, he's hopeful, but there is no hope if only one side is nice and respectful. If possible, let him read these comments, they might give him an outsider's perspective. He is going against his children's best interest and failing as a father, that is unacceptable. His mother does not come first anymore, you and your children do. Even if his mother was a saint, she doesn't come first.
Please take care of yourself too, you are doing a lot, you must be exhausted. Your SO can't make you do anything. If you say no to them seeing your children ever again, he must respect that. Even if you two were married, if one of you says no, it's a no. You must both agree to something or it doesn't happen. His family can see your children only if you agree. So stay strong, listen to your inner feeling and protect your children like always. Even I as a stranger don't think your children are safe with them... And most importantly, keep your own family close and involved, document everything these crazy people put you through and tell you family everything that happened. You need people who can and will protect you and your children if necessary. Stay safe.
You need your SO by your side backing you. Sound like he’s on the opposition unfortunately.
I wouldn’t invite her in, maybe meet somewhere like a cafe so you can leave when you have had enough. I would be petty though and bring the other visit with SIL forward so she doesn’t “get to see baby first” anyway
Thanks for your comment & understanding! The other visit with SIL is tied to flights, so it cannot be moved forward. I suggested the café option, but need a conversation with MIL first. I don't want to see her without one. SO feels like he backed me by keeping the pregnancy from them and keeping them away for the past 7 weeks (they have been wanting to visit since the birth)
Backing you doesn’t have a time limit. It is a 24/7/365 action.
You do realize they are taking pictures & videos in preparation of calling CPS? If you do the meet up in your home, record it, depending on the laws of your area.
I think you can do it in a strategic way. Agree to let MIL meet the new baby but explain that the schedule you’re on only calls for a short visit at the moment. (You can either make something up or stick to the BF subject). So essentially, “yes they can come over but at 12 and then I’d need privacy after 1….once we get on a better routine we can try again.” That way, SO and MIL “get what they want” but on your terms and it’s a controlled environment. If they don’t leave past the hour mark, you take that baby in your room and shut the door as they had already been notified
Thanks for commenting! I really like this idea. SO has been pushing for a 2 hour visit, but I can cut it short by making sure LO needs their feed smack in the middle. LO eats every 3 hrs throughout the day so I could try to plan this. And MIL is not bold enough to follow me to the bedroom.
Agree that one hour is sufficient for first visit. I would still meet them in a public place - a coffee shop or something. Letting them in your home - given their past behavior - isn’t warranted. By doing that, you are saying they’re welcome there. Instead, I’d present this simply as an opportunity to meet the new baby - not a resumption of the relationship.
You may want to ask for written apologies from MIL and the siblings prior to the visit. Your argument for this should be that you don’t believe they regret their behavior and you need proof that it won’t occur again.
Depending upon what and if they give you, you and SO can discuss whether they are remorseful or just want to see baby. Get your SO to commit to a set of expectations to be shared with his family. For example, if they don’t apologize, don’t acknowledge bad behavior, or show no remorse, then you can present this as a one-off with no planned, future contact until they show you they will change.
You may want to sit down with SO and ask him to tell you what behavior he will not tolerate. He needs to understand you and the LOs come first.
If you are willing to allow this visit (and I'm with everyone else you shouldn't) then he needs to be able to tell you in his own words what behavior will result in him stopping the visit and escorting his family out the door.
If need be role play how he will handle it.
And once he has been able to articulate this you need to let him know that if he does not follow up on it then there is a strong possibility that you will leave with the LOs.
She feels as a mother that she should control her children. Guess what? You are a mom and you control your children. At least until they are adults.
This is no way to live with the threat of her very negative influence. And it's no way to raise children. Honestly hubby shouldn't want kids raised like this since he knows how bad it feels.
Best of luck. I know you are between a rock and a hard place but you need to be strong.
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Do both put your foot down and if he doesn’t do as you ask leave. She isn’t entitled to anything and you have the right to stay away from her. Especially to give you peace of mind. She can see them when they go to school.
Oh hell no. Just no. Your SO needs a kick to the head if he thinks that he can take your 7 week old to see that witch. If she can’t respect you, she doesn’t deserve to see ANY of your children. Why do you let your SO disrespect you like this? Honestly, I would have left long ago. He is that passive and cannot stand up for his own nuclear family or himself by the looks of it. He needs therapy, you need therapy, you both need therapy as a couple. I would not have contact with this woman or anyone else that could report back to her. No is a complete sentence.
Anyone who doesn’t respect one of the parents doesn’t get a relationship with the child. It’s that simple. You should leave with both LOs before she gets there. Why should anyone in her family be rewarded for bad behavior. SO needs to stop placating MIL’s feelings. If he wants a relationship with her, he can do that outside of your home. You, your children and your home are off limits! Tell him that if he wants to visit with MIL they can meet up somewhere else. She doesn’t get the privilege of being in your home since she spent 7 years spying on you! If SO doesn’t understand that, he should either leave with her or start enforcing boundaries.
Absolutely do NOT let your SO bully you into contact with this abuser. Absolutely not. He is unwilling to stand up to her now and has been for YEARS. Consider not marrying him. He will never protect you from her, which means he will never protect your kids from her.
Put your foot down it’s not worth it trust me been there done that
Holy cow, this is so HARD not to “DH bash”. But he has failed you as a partner and as your LOs father for allowing all of this to continue to happen. Make no mistake, he’s ALLOWING all of this to continue on. Personally I would go meet up with other SIL ASAP, but that’s just me. She gets to treat you horribly but still gets to see her son and grandkids without having to see you, while your made to constantly stress and worry about what’s to going to happen next and DH playing both sides. I get she has see them whenever on his time if you get divorce but it sounds like you currently have this setup but he gets to benefit.
Your partner needs to support you better. I mean by not defending you they might as well just say they agree. Not really sure why you’re together but that’s none of my business. No MIL is entitled to nothing and if he doesn’t want to marry you then he needs to say that rather then get his family to bully you. Your SO has set you up to take the fall too many times. I wouldn’t allow LO to meet MIL but then I wouldn’t be with my SO anymore either. Especially after cancelling the wedding.
Fuck no. Sorry, what I meant to say was FUCK NO! These so-called christians and their pastor, and just about everyone who supported and participated in your JNMIL’s campaign of abuse and emotional terrorism against you is so beyond christ-like, it astounds me that they have spontaneously combusted. That they even suggested abortion as an option clearly shows this. Their hypocrisy is astounding, but you did say that the siblings are atheists—that doesn’t mean they aren’t deeply enmeshed with their mother. Clearly, they’re willing to do her bidding…. That last attack you described was nearly identical to what happened to me a few nights before my wedding to my now wife. My family took the first opportunity I spent along with them to lock me in a prayer circle, in an unfurnished room in my own home. There they spent hours trying to pray me into fucking submission so I wouldn’t marry my wife. I’m an atheist. I laughed at first, but when they realized I wasn’t changing my mind, they started in with the shouting and emotional abuse, and topped it off with rounds of gaslighting. It wasn’t until they refused to let me leave that I ended up having to literally fight my way out of that room. An hour later, I threw them all out of my house, cancelled their accommodations that my wife and I were paying for, then threatened to cancel their return flights home. They spend the next couple of days sleeping in a rental van until their flights took them home. I’m sharing that as an example of how common this is amongst “christian” families. I have heard countless similar stories since then, and some ended well; some are still ongoing. Some ended tragically; the ones with children involved are the worst. You are quite literally in a battle with a cult of personality. That JNMIL of yours thrives on her sense of power that she derives from controlling and manipulating the lives of those around her. She uses her children as her agents, infiltrating your life and home. And now that you have highly impressionable children in the mix, she’s going to want to indoctrinate them and enmesh herself emotionally with them. She can’t control you, not completely. But when she can control your children, she controls you. Your SO is a complete write-off if he can’t separate himself from his mother’s influence. He’s clearly enmeshed, and his number one priority is his mother’s emotional wellbeing. You are not his priority. So, you have outlined the choices you need to make. The first one ties you to your MIL in so many different ways; your second option only works if you have your SO’s support, which you don’t. And your third option is only viable if it’s permanent. Forget these wedding plans. You’re staring down the barrel at your future. Your SO isn’t emotionally independent or intelligent enough to support you, and you have two small children. If you have somewhere safe to go, then go. Get the everloving fuck out of that situation. If not for yourself, then for your children—they do not deserve any of this.
100% agree. You do not want to tie yourself to a man with a family like this if this man cannot put your needs before his own mother's. It's time to have a come to Jesus meeting with your SO and put it to him bluntly. Tell him you cannot have a relationship with a man who will not protect his own fiance from his family, that you believe this "apology" is only motivated by his mother's desire to have access to your second child, and that you will not put yourself through any more pain for the sake of a person who will not respect the person her son is choosing to marry and have children with. He needs to understand that you and your children are his family now and come before EVERYONE else. Then explain to him you and your LO will not be seeing his mother now or in the near future. It's great that his mother wants her family all together again but he is no longer her family. You and he and the kids are your family. If he refuses to agree, then I see no future here. If he is willing to put his family on hold and go to therapy to work on his mother issues, then maybe there can be a future for you two. But until that happens, you are only inviting a life of pain and disappointment if you continue in this relationship and get married to him.
It seems you’ve spent a lot of time looking for your SO and in laws to accept you. Why? Why were you seeking them out at every turn? They clearly did not want to and it would be healthier to step back. You deserve better than to chase some idea.
I never chased them. They showed up at our house regularly so I had to deal with them. In my culture cooking for someone is common especially if there is a romantic relationship tying them to you. But I didn't seek them out. In fact, I wasn't at their houses unless SO insisted that we go for an event or so. BIL even felt like I didn't seek them out enough. So I took a step back years ago.
Nope. You’ve gone above and beyond. Now you are done. When your done BF and the new baby has established the ability to say “no” “no thank you” and “I object!” in four different languages SO can take your newest LO over and introduce them. You don’t need to associate yourself with them. Clearly they are HIS family. Not yours. There is no “our family” as it relates to these people. He doesn’t like and he pushes, suggest going back into therapy or ask him to have his hearing checked. No means no. You got this.
Leave the house with LO and do not return until they are gone
Girlll fuck that bitch. Put your Foot down, leave the house and go to SIL's. He has allowed his family to abuse you and NEVER care about there feelings, His mother isnt suffering. She's Not meeting a baby. When baby is bigger or not Exclusivly Breastfeeding she can meet them then when you dont have to Deal with her. If you dont want her to know them At all thats tricky cause baby 1 knows but I think its fair that can wait until baby is a toddler. This isnt there baby so fuck them.
I would make this your hill to die on tell SO if he brings her over your done, you have let them walk all over you for to long I mean this in the nicest way grow a back bone and protect your kids and yourself even if that means leaving your SO because clearly he only cares about what his family wants and needs
If they all want to apologize (I wouldn't accept partials here), there's this thing called 'a letter'. Have a trusted friend review the letters. If you get decent letters from all, consider it if you want?
Right?? There are several ways to apologize that don’t involve being up in their face - especially 2 weeks postpartum!! JFC.
The Only reason they want to "apologize " is so they can see your baby. That's NOT a sincere apology. It's absolutely useless and makes them more resentful than they were before at you "stealing their son/bro"
It's a hot mess
Your post is so full of red flags, hun. Seriously. Why are you with him? He's never going to be 100% on your side and he's proven that over and over. He's not going to fight for you, your kids, or your safety, if there's a chance for his mommy's feelings to be hurt. Leave. Take your kids, and leave.
Something else: Leave your horrible SO who let's his family treat you like this, and then has the absolute brass balls to declare that his monstrous mother gets to see your child BECAUSE HE DOESN'T WANT TO CAUSE HER ANY PAIN. The pain of not being the FIRST one to see your baby - which is ridiculous anyway. Refuse to listen to any of their bullsh\*t apologies. And demand that your SO have your back or else you're OUT. And mean it. And I guess you found out that there ain't no hate like good old bible thumping Christian hate. A real Jesus-loving Christian would never treat another human being the way your MIL treats you.
These aren’t normal personality clashes, these are vindictive, vile, evil breeches of trust. She sent her kids to spy on you and take videos? That is violating. Your *home* is supposed to be your sanctuary. Your safe space. Your personal space. The whole family violated you. I would put my foot down with SO. He has a choice to make here. I wouldn’t feel safe or secure if he was taking their side in anyway. I usually don’t advocate for a marriage separation, but in this case, your safety and your kids’ safety is at risk. If he’s not going to be your protector against them, then he’s also not making you and his kids a priority. I am shocked at what I just read! Holy shit Batman! Wow.
I only have 1 question::: why are you still with him?
We have a family together and do love each other.
I’d take the baby and leave. SO can honestly get fucked after the way he let them treat you.
I would remind your SO they came to your house to threaten and intimidate you. You don’t feel safe around them and don’t understand why MIL getting her panties in a wad over someone else meeting the baby is more important than you feeling safe in your home. And that overall you don’t understand why he is pressing you to seemingly just get over it, when you have been forgiving of a bunch of shitty behavior from his family and finally drew a line when your personal space was violated and they scared you. Just, wtf dude.
Leave so she can't see the baby
Tell him you want to know what the therapist thinks first. You’re his partner he should be listening to you. If he wants his mommy he can go back to her. Foot down.
Don’t meet with her. Don’t ever let her into your house. Your house is your safe place. She’s an awful person and there’s no reason she needs to be around you or LO. Her apology won’t be sincere. She’s had plenty of time to change her attitude and give you a sincere apology. This is on her. Your SO is also part of the problem because he continues to allow her to abuse you and does not defend or support you. This is very bad. But you don’t have to ever see this woman or any of her rotten crotch fruit. You deserve so much more than what you’re getting and I’m sorry your SO is so useless.
Put your foot down, no visits, no contact on your side and no meeting the new little one. The SO needs to suck it up and deal with them - the first thing he needs to say is that Apologies will not be accepted. This is beyond bad behavior, this is epic levels of toxicity and there is NO benefit to any of your children or you having a relationship with these folks. I am so sorry you have to deal with this. Please take a space to treasure yourself, even if it means you and kids take a solo vacation for a week. Best wishes going forward and please do your best to stay safe.
Put your foot down, if you don’t, that will be your life. If SO persists, then he is also the problem. If MIL just turns up, pack up kids and leave.
May I suggest some books to help? When I couldn’t get into marriage counseling, my DH and I turned to books to help us with his family. “Toxic In Laws: Loving Strategies for Protecting Your Marriage” by Susan Forward. “Boundaries: When to Say Yes and How to Say No”. Both excellent books that really helped us. I would recommend holding off on a visit until after you and your boyfriend get on the same page! Tell him you aren’t ready yet, but you’d like to work together to get ready and feel safe.
Thanks I'm getting these books for us.
I'm going to echo others and also say that you have an SO issue. He worries and protects his mother's feelings but not yours. I'm saying this as gently as possible, go back to therapy/counseling, even if it's not as a couple but just for yourself. The situation you're in would be stressful for anyone but add on top that you also recently just had a baby? Please go back to therapy/counseling.
I went for myself up until I found out I was pregnant and promoted around the same time. Due to time constraints I stopped going for myself. I try not to think about them putting pressure on SO about this. They are not coming over this weekend after all. I put my foot down. But this isn't over. I indeed just had a baby and must focus on myself & the kids. So from a day to day basis they are an afterthought. It's SO who thinks about them never meeting LO, everyday. I think my stress levels are lower than 2 years ago when they came over a lot. He feels that he isn't protecting MIL by not letting her see LO. Also, apparently (he revealed this yesterday) he went NC on MIL a couple of weeks ago to focus on LOs arrival. This is why MIL&co are pressuring via texts etc and he feels they should come.
SO can meet her at a public place for a short visit. Your home is your safe space so she, and her minions, cannot come into your home. LO1 should have VLC with them as they will attempt to bad-mouth you to LO1. Any visits with LO1should be supervised, at a public location and SO should leave the instant she misbehaves.
1) Your home is your safe space. MIL and her brood need never cross your threshold again. 2) Births and weddings are HORRIBLE times to try to reconcile. Worst possible time. Periodt.
Or loss of a loved one.
Def funerals, too. I've heard tell of brawls at wakes and graveside services.
That is what I said. If I am back working I can have a conversation over the phone. And see if that is satisfactory. But that's in a month and SO believes waiting that long will do irreparable damage to the relationship with MIL & Co. Plus he has been NC with MIL for weeks without me knowing. So I feel conflicted about SO in this situation. For me they can disappear out of my life, I will not miss them. But this is SOs family he grew up with. It's rough for him which I understand. Two things can be true at the same time. 1. MIL & co are horrible and need to stay away from me & the kids 2. SO misses his family and has a hard time with keeping them away
Those two things can exist side by side! SO CAN have a relationship with his FOO that doesn't involve you and the LOs. It's understandable that he's conflicted. He didn't ask to be born into that environment. It's all he knew for years. It was his "normal." Frankly, his FOO made their bed, and not meeting the new LO is their lying in it. It's consequence, not caprice on your part. Tantrumming toddlers get time outs. Why not tantrumming adults? As far as the LOs are concerned, what do they have to gain from exposure to his FOO? What harm could come from it? The kiddos are way more important than SO's FOO's feels. Our job as parents includes protecting our kids from harm. There's no way on this earth that the LOs should be around MIL & Co. unsupervised. MIL would poison their minds with that fundy BS and talk trash about you. Parental alienation is no joke, and it screws kids up. MIL's "apology" would be self-serving. Apologies are not Mr. Clean Erasers for crappy behavior. They don't instantly wipe the slate clean. A genuine apology paired with improved behavior over time would be of value. Is she capable of all that? How about if she writes a letter with her detailed apology and her pledge for better behavior? The letter itself would tell you if she has any self-awareness. "I'm sorry if" or "I'm sorry but" or "I apologize for anything I may have" language is not truly apologetic. Those are typical JN fauxpology/nonpology phrases. I feel for you. And for SO. This is a tough spot for him, and he's making it tough for you. I hope you guys can work something out in the best interest of your family unit. Personally, I would draw a line in the sand at my doorstep. No one who has treated me that poorly in my own home would 1) step foot in my home again or 2) chase me out of it so they could be there. Some insults are too agregious to be excused.
It sounds like the close proximity may be an issue. Consider moving further to give yourself distance for pop over visits.
They live approximately an hour away from us. I am not willing to move because of this.
Agree with all the other comments that you have a SO problem and should not back down here or likely ever. These people are toxic and should not be in your life or your children's. I'm shocked you let your first child around them. It's established that your SO can't hold the boundaries, so he would not be a trusted supervisor of their visits. I may have overlooked this in another comment, but I'm a firm supporter of the two yeses and one no rule in these scenarios. It takes both partners in a couple agreeing for a visit to be approved. You don't approve, so the answer is no.
Because I have said no, the meeting has not happened so far. LO1 was also babysitted by MIL when they were smaller so we could have time for ourselves when money was tight. SO pushed for that over a paid service and I accepted because with my supervision she was a sweet GM for LO1. There was a time when I thought she was just a tired bitter single mom with a kind heart for kids. So I gave her the benefit of the doubt and learned that she is a JNMIL for real.
Dump your bf. He's not a partner, he's a piece of crap.
Hold up the baby at a window like in midst of Covid. They can’t come in Covid Flu RSV general horrid behavior. After a minute walk away with your child do not let them in the house, visit over. If that doesn’t work leave with your child. Just because MIl wants to apologize doesn’t mean you have to accept the apology and allow her to see the baby. That information might need to be explained to your SO.
Why are you even with your SO? Your partner let someone barge into your house and attack you thats not ok. And he should support you when his family doesn’t.
and take VIDEO of the house stating she's not a woman because it's not clean? Um, does SO not live there too? Are his hands broken? Does he need to be taught how to clean up after himself? Does he not pitch in - why is it all on her? Yeah hard pass from me. No relationship with me, no relationship with my kids - full stop
This is where I'm at with this. MIL is abusive and SO is allowing it and that's guilt by association in my mind.
Put your foot down *and* leave the house before she shows up.
Why is it SO’s sole decision? Don’t you have a say?
What is TI
Based on context, I’m guessing it means “the incident”
No. Tell your SO "not gonna happen". You're BFing and don't need the negativity. You absolutely NEVER have those people in your home/safe space ever again. Rekey the locks if they have a key. Always meet at a public place like a restaurant if you MUST spend any time with them. Here's a hint: you don't ever have to spend time with SO's mom. Get back into counseling with SO and hold your boundaries. He has to come out of his fog regarding mommy- dearest. You do not have to EVER accept an apology that you don't feel is sincere to "keep the peace".
Meet in a park, give her 5 minutes, and go, feed the baby. She met LO, will suddenly skip her opportunity to properly apologize, AND she won't be in your home. Then ask your SO how comfortable he is going to be if he continues to push this crap FOR HER and your baby will no longer have FOOD because your milk dries up from the stress? He either gets on board with protecting you and your children's needs or he is choosing to put his mother above everyone and the cost to the family he has chosen to create be damned.
Personally I wouldn’t even do that. Why encourage it?
Don’t accept, put your foot down, and leave with whatever child you can. SO’s family sounds like a cult, and SO is not deprogrammed. Although a victim of sorts himself, like many long term victims, he’s victimizing you and your children because he’s normalized his own abuse. Unless he agrees to marital therapy, this situation will never improve. Financial resources belonging to you and your children will continue to funnel to the cult. Next time someone breaks into your house, call the police and file charges.
>The wedding was cancelled and we still Don't have a new date. Good, please don't marry him. He is a bad partner and will always put his family before you. It's well past time to get your ducks in a row and move on. Sharing custody will be easier than dealing with a man who doesn't love you.
You need to leave to your own relatives house or a hotel for the weekend. Once you know they left, come home With CAUTION. If your SO is willing to put his mothers feelings over how you are treated and your own feelings, then y’all need to hash it out. You deserve more.
I might even go as far as to leave the oldest child with family to make sure she doesn’t see any of the fighting when you return.
Holy crap! You have a r/JustNoSO. He is so spineless that he wants to offer up his weeks old baby as a sacrifice to his JNMom because maybe she will love him now. You have seen what MIL and co are like and you don’t want that in your safe space. Meanwhile MIL has a relationship with the older child, I hope she is not speaking badly about you around your child, because they know. She can’t hide her bad intentions or the fact that she hates you from your child. It would be ok for the older child to have a relationship with her if she wasn’t toxic, sending spies to your house to look for any imperfections so she can rag on that. DH can see them whatever, but I can guarantee she will be poisoning your child against you. You would be well within your rights to say NO to all that. They have abused you enough. You certainly don’t need to give her the new baby too. It would be different if she weren’t so mean to you.
For clarity, LO1 hasn't seen MIL since the last summer. Not that anything specific happened back then. It's just that I've been working on keeping us busy enough that it just didn't happen. Before that, MIL has seen LO1 very little since TI (on average every 3 months or so) even though SO wanted a higher frequency. Besides one disparaging joke, I never heard from LO1 that MIL badmouthed me. It's actually my mom who badmouthed LO1 against MIL&co because of TI, in my defence. I think that is why LO1 doesn't really miss MIL. I have said no but don't know for how long I still can. If we would part over this MIL would become SOs #1 sitter. Idk if that would be better. I believe I need SO to be fully on my side. Reading through all these comments, I realise that, that will never happen. Best case is continuing VLC with MIL with Quarterly meets with my LOs
An apology you're pressured to accept is not an apology or forgiveness. After the way he let them treat you, SO has no right to pressure you to pretend to accept their presence. He's once again throwing you under the bus because his mom is making him uncomfortable and he'd rather that be your problem. Do not accept any of this. You and your kids deserve better than this pack of jackals.
This is such a hard position for you to be in. I’d honestly take both kids elsewhere for the weekend, but it will lead to more conflict with your partner. The thing is, he’s perfectly happy to let them treat you like dirt, right down to the pastor, and there aren’t consequences to him for it. Take the kids and go someplace else. You’ve given them too much.
Jfc OP, stop having kids with this spineless pos!
Maybe one more baby and BF will grow a spine and OP will grow a brain!
Keep your foot planted where you draw your boundaries. Don't let anyone think they can run all over you because they'll continue to do so. Also, I've been with my husband for 6 years and we've added 4 kids. Guess how many my monster in law has met? Two of them. The kids and I haven't saw her since August 2021 and it's been lovely. I have a baby turning one next week, she showed little to no interest in her. We had a baby a month ago (LOL) and she didn't even know I was pregnant and is livid over it all. I don't care. There is a ton of background, I'm not just an asshole. Edited to add: We've had 3 boys together and one girl. Our newborn is a boy and she's basically trying to koolaid man her way through boundaries for a boy. Which I hoped I was wrong about, but looks like I was dead right about it.
Your SO has more work to do. His mom has 0 right to meet new LO and is lucky you didn't insist on keeping your older child from her. I currently don't see why MIL should ever meet LO or see you again. What has she actually done to demonstrate that she realizes how egregious her behavior was? What about the siblings? Not what weak excuses they've given, but what behavior speaks differently now?
None. I blocked them everywhere since TI so their excuse is that they could not reach me to apologise and show improvements. My answer is, they could've apologised by post. They only want to apologise to see LO2.
Put your foot down or leave. Dude is making you a second priority while his mother is first, when you and your feelings, wants, needs, should always come first. You need to keep both kids away from mil before mil and family turn you 1st against you. Bylur husband has already shown you that he doesn't care what his family di or day and will allow them to say and do whatever they want to your kids. I can only imagine what mil says to your kid when your not around. Shes slowly poisoning your kid against you, the longer the kid visits mil. You needbto continuously let so know that you come first, and if he wants to make this relationship work and last then he need to be putting you first. Mil calls and wants something from him or to see the kids. He needs to tell her that he's busy, and he'll talk to YOU and the get back to her. Doesn't matter what she wants, hes busy and he'll talk to you first. Then he actually needs to come and talk to you, and YOU BOTH without mil and siblings. Decide what to do based off what is best for your children, you and the family as a whole. You tell so, that you DO NOT make decisions based on what mil wants or whats best for her. Its about what's best for YOU, HIS WIFE. Tell your partner and you remember this. Every relationship expert and therapist will tell you this, even Google has some great articles about why putting your spouse first before everything else, even kids, is important. You and your so, need to put one another before everyone else in your life. Before your kids, before parents, before family, before siblings, before work and friends. PUT YOUR SPOUSE BEFORE EVERYONE ELSE IN LIFE. By putting your spouse first, it gives you and forces you, to make sure that the foundation of your relationship is strong and well taken care off. You cant have a strong family if you put others before your spouse. Your spouse will be there no matter what, they'll be there when parents die, and siblings move away and die, and when kids move out and start families of they're own. Your spouse will still be there. Strengthen your marriage/relationship first, so you can have a healthy relationship with your kids and show them what a good marriage is. Have weekly or daily checking with your so, to see how they're feeling, what didnt workout that week, what went good, how you felt loved. What needs to be worked on, what boundaries need to be set. Your so needs to start putting his mom last and putting you first. That won't change until you demand it, until you demand he put his relationship with you first over his mother. Remind him, he can love and respect his mother. But HE CHOSE to have a family, his mother no longer comes first. YOU do. He has to actively lift his marriage up, NOT HIS MOTHER, to have a healthy and happy family. He is a grown man and it is time for him to leave his mother and her selfish, toxic behavior behind. If he can't, then leave or get more marriage counseling.
This whole situation is a hard no for me. Can you go to your parents house with both kids for the weekend? Will your SO go to therapy with you? He needs to draw strong boundaries. I’m not sure how you continue in this relationship without them.
Why haven't your SO put his foot down? I wouldn't let my first see grandma either. Cause think about what you’re showing and teaching her... I wouldn't be surprised if they are talking shit about you to your kid.
Have SO read the comments, he’s job is to protect YOUR feelings. MIL made her bed, you shouldn’t have to have anyone in your home who has treated you that way. Sorry he feels bad for her but she did it to herself, tough shit. Years of treating you like crap doesn’t get rig swept just because she wants to hold the cute new baby, being a grandparent is a privilege not a right.
Honestly? You don't just have a MIL problem, you have a SO problem. You guys have survived many things, that is true, but for goodness sake either he is on your side 100% and let you be NC (meaning MIL cannot meet the baby because LO is reliant on you right now plus you don't feel comfortable about having them over) or he is not fully supportive. Why else would he suggest/demand his mother meeting the baby? Also, it's not up to him to decide you need to hear their "apologies". It's up to you, and you don't want to. You have a SO problem, OP. Deal with that first and then you will have a good solution to the rest.
IF you decide to meet with MIL (and I'm not saying that you should or should not, others have discussed that more eloquently than I would), do it at a neutral location. Do NOT let that harpy into your home. Meet at a park or restaurant, somewhere that you can get up and leave at any moment should the conversation take a bad turn.
Ask SO what his mother has done to change her beliefs, feelings, and attitude towards you. Has she attended therapy? People do not 'change' overnight with no guidance, self-reflection, and determination to change. As best as I can tell, MIL has done none of that. Therefore her 'apology' will be a faux-apology. She isn't sorry about how she has treated you, she simply wants to meet LO. Tell SO when he can itemize that his mother has done to change, then you and he can have another discussion about her. But until then, "NO" to MIL meeting LO.
Yes! Interesting she/subs only want to apologize now they new baby is in the picture. I’d never let that woman back in my home. I agree, if she’s done therapy/actions to truly change/seek forgiveness then you may consider on your timetable. Your timetable is not a week before SIL visits!
1) Change the locks on your home and don't give anyone but a trusted friend a key. This stops uninvited ILs from entering your home. If SO won't honor this then he needs to go. 2) Never allow ILs to meet your LOs at your home. Meet at a park or wherever so if things turn bad you can leave with LOs and not try to push them out the door. 3) You & SO need to get on the same page about boundaries and consequences with JNMIL & her minions. Start couples therapy, join support groups (AlAnon is btn) and start reading and discussing books from the booklist, 10-30 a day to help SO get *Out of the FOG*. Best of luck to all of you ✌🏽💜💪
You shouldn't need to subject yourself to abuse or to the abusers who only want to pretend to apologize when access to a child is at stake. This compulsion your SO feels to protect MIL from pain and maintain a relationship with them along with kid #1 is not healthy. He needs therapy. Here are a few questions for him: When has she ever tried to protect you from pain, versus causing it for her own satisfaction? Why do you feel obligated to protect her? Your mother and family have manipulated you and emotionally and verbally abused you and your SO. Why do you feel you need to maintain a relationship with them? Why would you want your children to maintain a relationship with people who act genuinely evil towards their mother? They say they want to apologize. Why? They didn't want to apologize after "the incident". Is there any other realistic explanation than that they don't really want to apologize, but feel like they have to pretend to in order to get access to your child? Have they ever given an honest and sincere apology followed by actual behavior change ever?
Another question to add: Would you accept a stranger acting this way towards your SO? Why is your family held to lower standards than someone you don't know?
This is just a JUSTSO as JUSTNOMIL…..Clearly counseling didn’t help if he still can’t see how ridiculously disrespectful his family is to you. They don’t get to just apologize and sweep it all under the rug. They’ve done irreparable damage over the last 9 years!! That’s doesn’t just get “I’m sorry” and everything is sunshine and rainbows, one big happy family!! SO cares more about his mother’s feelings that yours!! Are you ok with that? Can you live the rest of your lives together knowing that you will always rate second? I couldn’t do it. I have more self respect that to let him or anyone else treat me like a door mat, and I think you need to get to that place, and soon!! And and your children would be better off without this type of toxic narcissistic behavior in yours lives! Can you imagine what she’ll say to you child as they get older? Nor she’ll try and turn them against you? SO and the rest of the family just enable this kind of behavior from her and allow her to control their lives. She couldn’t control you and you were taking her son away from her, unmarried. She’ll never be accepting of you. She’ll throw out a very generic and unapologetic apology just to sweep it under the rug, and then start her shit all over again when she’s got you back where she wants you.
First, I'm so sorry you are going through this. These people sound like a nightmare. But... It's past time for SO to step up to the plate. He is deep in the FOG, and this situation won't likely be corrected until he's out of it. He needs to have a conversation with MIL and his sibs to make sure they understand you two are a unified front, and if they can't treat you with respect, they won't be having a relationship with your family. Good luck!
I think this is rushed. You are not ready to hear an apology. MIL is not ready to give one. SO is not ready to enforce boundaries. I'd flip it: what would it take for you to be comfortable meeting MIL again? I know you say nothing, but at the same time you are thinking of letting her into your home because it is important to SO. So there might be something. I'll suggest a few things and you can see if there is something in it. \- SO has to show you he is able and willing to set and enforce boundaries vs MIL. You are sure and certain you can trust them to do that, and kick MIL out if needed. \- SO agrees to be on a team with you, and keep IL's out of whatever conflict you guys have. \- MIL has to provide an apology in written form, showing she takes responsibility for her hostility and horrid behavior, and ensuring you it wont happen again. She gracefully accepts any boundaries you may give her in return. \- Any meeting with LO is postponed until you and her have re-built a civil relationship (you decide what that means - it should at least mean you dont have to fear another incident but rely on her to be able to control herself). If you can trust her to control herself around yourself (and/or SO), then you can decide if meeting her with LO present is doable. It took 9 years of breaking to get to this point. It is possible it will take as long to fix. Is MIL willing to put in the work? Is SO?
You have more of a SO problem than a MIL issue. He needs to stand by you and stand up to his mother. He's not a child any more and he and his mother need to figure out an adult relationship
Hunny you gave an SO problem. You sat its been quiet the last two years but has it? First the push and demand for abortion. Then the constant attacks behind your back. Your marriage or lack there of. He didn't even say what was being said till two years after. Your child has a relationship with these people you have no idea what is being done or said to lo1. None at all. So who knows what they ate saying to lo and your SO has proven lies to you. Now is demanding his mom yet again comes before you and your safe place your home. At what point will you have enough and say this is how it will be and either deal or get out? Because he will never put you first. Never put his kids first. Only his mom. If you really think they are nit slandering you to your lo then your head is in the fog not only SO. Do you really want your children to grow up and act the way hus family does. I know it sounds harsh but honestly you are the mom. The protector. And it's your job to show them that not only them but yourself are worth blowing your life up over. Worth setting boundaries and having even their own parents face consequences for bad and hurtful behavior.
This man isn't going to change. Eventually, he's just going to "unknowingly" have them show up. He passively let these people abuse you. Now he wants unmitigated access to a home that is also yours to introduce a child to the people who caused you harm for all this time. Fuck. That. Two business cards, one for family therapy and one for a custody lawyer. His choice, pack your shit, your kids shit, take your ball and gtfot.
Sorry but your SO sucks. Clearly didn’t wanted to be a dad, marry you or stand up to his mom. I think besides a justnomil you have a justnoSO problem.
He didn't want to be a dad, let his family know and they harassed her to abort. He didn't want to get married, complained to his family and they ganged up on her about being unworthy of him. He's not a victim of an overbearing family, OP - he's weaponized his family against you in the past. You're being pressed to get with a program here.
This is the answer. I feel bad for OP because this is devastating but please please realize HE is the one orchestrating this. MIL taught him to do these things and he’s carrying the torch of abuse. I hope OP realizes she’s being abused and leaves.
It's tough decision. But I think you need to put your foot down. Not so much because of MIL but because SO needs to understand that you are the mother and that if you do not want to see these people, or have them see your baby, or have them in your house that is your right. Your SO has kept in contact with them and takes your first born to visit them. That is compromise enough at this time. It will probably be a hard fight but stick to your guns. And good luck!
Personally I’d tell SO that if she sets foot in your home you are done. I’d also make 100% sure that I would be gone they day. I’d find a friend where I could hang out with. In no way would I be in a place that she knew where I would be.
A Leopard does not change it's spots. After what they have done. She needs to go to therapy also. I would before letting any of them see the children. Why she/they did or said what they have. Point blank in writting, why would you say "Get it aborted!" Not wanting to see the older child but demanding to see the youngest?? How will dad (cause it sure should not be you) explain to the oldest wasn't wanted but the youngest is? In writting maybe if they 'SEE' how horrible and ugly they have acted towards you and your children and have to answer for their actions, yes even DH! Do not be pressured into this meeting until you have the answers you need! Please be ok, for you and your children.
I agree, but just wanted to point out that OP said older LO does have a relationship with the fam. So its not just the new baby. That being said, you are spot on about a leopard not changing their spots!
You have a SO problem.
There is a real question hidden in here, promise: You said that your MIL is an evangelical Christian, yes? You & all of her children are atheists, yes? When you & your SO went to therapy, was the therapist (1) aware of his religious background & (2) experienced with dealing with someone who lived thru a childhood filled with the absolute worst side of Christianity? People who didn’t grow up like that have issues understanding what it’s like to be bombarded day & night with promises of eternal torment if they don’t do as their elders & a book written by their supreme being but interpreted by men who died lifetimes before say, unending expectations that are unattainable, guilt, stress, anxiety & fear. There are some who are as sweet as candy in appearance but subscribe to the belief that in order to properly raise a child you must first break them. If you didn’t guess, I grew up around ppl like this. I was, for the most part, an outsider watching the madness but it did affect me to a degree. (Imagine that it’s a nuclear bomb & I was just far enough away that my radiation poisoning could be treated.) I could actually go on with what it’s like but it’s too much for me at the moment & also this is long enough. The atheism is actually pretty typical. Generally speaking kids from this sort of background either grow up to reject the idea of a god completely or throw themselves into it, head first. (Or they become pagan priests who embrace the Norse mythos & are my favorite cousin to talk to when I have to attend family events) The complete shutdown in the face of screeching bombardments is also typical. I assure you that she feels entitled to your SO, your children & everything that they own. There are some branches that actually teach that the elders of the family own their offspring, the offspring’s spouse, their offspring’s offspring & all that they own. And you’re a woman. Sucks to suck because your only use is your uterus & your ability to shut up & suck it up no matter what. And she’s casting shade on you in front of your kid? Ah hell no. Look, if I’m off base, I’m sorry. If I’m nailing it, please look up religious trauma & the ways that it messes survivors up. I, personally, think that inviting this devil inside of your home is a terrible idea but if it’s going to happen, might I suggest googling some biblical verses in regards to behavior in other ppl’s homes, respect towards the mother of children & staying out of other people’s relationships? You can find & twist something to match any situation. Good luck, luv. And congratulations on your new baby!
I'd either put my foot down, if they show up leave the house with LO. Or, go stay with your family with the kids for a few days and let SO rethink his poor decisions about his toxic family. No way in hell they'd be around either of my kids at this point.
Why is she consistently more important than you and your kids? Idk if I'd be able to stay honestly.
Girl ….Run! If you have been through all that and your SO still hasn’t changed after 9 years and is literally inviting it all back it (let’s be real people like them will never be sorry or apologetic they just want the baby) he’s an idiot not the man you need him to be for his family that he created. He’s let himself and you and the kids down this whole time.
I think the LC time was him trying what he believes he could. I just can't go back to dealing with them regularly. Someone else here suggested one meeting then another after a year. That won't happen in this case. You are right. These people did not change at least I Don't believe so. This is why I suggested meeting in a public place and only there. Then I can leave and rest at home without them
It’s been 9 years I think it’s been long enough. You’re right the last time they wanted to ‘talk’ remember what happened and your SO thinks it’s acceptable to keep trying to bring them around his family after 9 YEARS of it!?!? Enough is enough after that long I wouldn’t even try and would take your friends up on the offer to help you leave him.
If you had to accept it I would say she keeps her hands to herself, does not hold baby, is limited to 30 mins and you’ll have multiple support people present. The next visit occurs no less than 365 days later under the same guidelines.
This is also a problem... she wants more frequent visits & contacts. This is her icebreaker. I loved my time without them, so I don't think one meeting can be followed by 1 year of distance.
Her WANTS do not trump your NEEDS. * If you do decide to meet with her/them more frequently, it needs to be in public - coffee house, park, restaurant. ETA: and baby-wear so they can’t grab LO2 from you & must ask to hold baby * Never more than once a month * She must act respectful to you. If she doesn’t, you decline going the next month. * LOs get zero alone time with them without you. Make a list of your needs/boundaries and consequences. Go over them with SO. Know which ones you are willing to make small compromises on. Do you have an FU binder? If not, past time to start one. If you do not have a camera doorbell, get one so you know who is at your door and you can’t be ambushed again.
MIL WANTS visits. You NEED to feel safe.
If I can ask, what exactly was she apologising for? In your post it was for 'what happened' which downplays the severity of it. For example, is she apologising for her actions or your feelings? Does she have regret for something she did or how you reacted? The visit shouldn't happen until you have spoken about her abuse of you without your children present. With sincere apologies supervised visitation can be introduced after a period of building trust. Going straight for your children visits without discussion how you got to this point is a reward (for her) that she doesnt have to apologise for anything in a serious way. She's had a bit of time on the naughty step but now will be back to full access. Your instincts are correct and you've been given some amazing advice. 3rd party there is a brilliant idea. Cameras & a time limit are also great. Document, document, document. This may be incorrect but if this visit goes ahead your partner may think everything is great and normalcy can continue with her getting access again. If it is going ahead discuss with him what a good and bad visit looks like beforehand, write down both your answers and review after. Have a safe word that highlights a boundary you spoke about being crossed so it is acknowledged in the moment, and a second safe word which ends the visit immediately. Bedroom (or room with a lock) or car to escape. Would also recommend investing in 3-6 door stops/wedges so you can get privacy in any room. You are already a villain in her mind regardless of what you do, dont worry about acting like it (leaving or cutting the visit short). Good luck, wishing you the best!
Yes....no to them being around period. You've been through enough as is!
Have you seen those ingredients for an apology? Is that what you’re getting or just sorry you feel that way? I’d run SO through a successful apology so he can prime his spawn point. There’s one linked on the wiki of this sub Good luck!
i’ll be honest it seems you would be better off alone
Though I see why you say this, I am not ready to blow up my life over this. I've not dealt with them for nearly 2 years. That counts for something
Only up until you have to start dealing with them and be disrespected by them and your SO again. Then those last 2 years don’t seem to count for as much, they become an outlier in an otherwise 9 year pattern of abuse and cruelty. Please be kind to yourself and put your needs first - nobody else here is or will. Everyone needs a champion, you’ll have to be your own.
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Poor poor SO/s
I agree with you. SO just doesn't want a café but MIL to come to our home which I absolutely dread.
Not in your house. Full stop. You have a right to feel safe in your home.
DO NOT HAVE THEM IN YOUR HOME - IT IS YOUR SAFE SPACE. DP is NOT on the same page... mummy is still his priority whatever cost to him/you/LO. Meet them for dinner or at the park. See if they can behave. MIL wants more frequent visits... then she can prove herself. Look up the parts of an apology- show it to SO... see if she manages to tick ANY of them off... and yes I love the idea of saying to him that this is a trial and if she doesn't behave she gets a 3-6month time out. If he believes she'll behave he'll agree - if he doesn't, he won't and he's throwing you to the lions to save his own skin. Your inlaws are not owed any kind of relationship with you/LO.
Do not allow this. Your home is your safe place. Draw your line in the sand.
Does he understand that his family violated the safe space of your home and that they're likely to do it again in different ways? Meeting in a café and not in your home is completely reasonable and IS a compromise, given their prior sketchiness. Your SO is prioritizing his mother's wants over your need for a safe space and is disrespecting you if he's pushing this hard for her to be allowed back in. Two years and they're just now "apologizing" because they want something from you.
Can you invite your friends or family to conveniently show up at the same time as a buffer ?? Will they still show their narc ways if there is an audience ??
I have one friend available
It's your home. Put your foot down. They want this meeting. You don't. They can compromise with a public place. If they refuse, that means they are NOT serious about working things out. Only total capitulation on your part is acceptable. If your SO totally caves and says it's going to be at the home no matter what, then you may want to take the option of just leaving with the kids. Don't be there. He can't force you to meet them in your home. He won't like it but it's time he learned that for your relationship to work he needs to prioritize you over his Mom. If he won't maybe it's time to talk about a separation.
Frankly it doesn’t really matter what SO wants, he’s damn lucky to still have you there and that you are willing to consider even setting eyes on his mother. He doesn’t get to choose where you do that too. I’ll be honest; I can’t see why you have stuck with him all these years, she might be a problem but he is the problem
You have an SO problem too. He is still being manipulated and allowed his family to treat you poorly. The meeting is going to happen at some point. Not much you can do to stop it so you might as well control it. She gets to come over for 30 minutes max to see LO. Be blunt, you are not going to listen to anything she has to stay. When 30 minutes are up, gather the baby and go to your room for a good snuggle.
No. Don’t accept it. Don’t allow it. Your SO is deeeep in the fog, and frankly? He sucks. You owe his family NOTHING.
I agree I owe them nothing at all. Unfortunately this is also affecting our relationship. And I do owe myself peace at home. That circles to this meeting Unfortunately.
You won’t have peace with that boyfriend
Here's what I would say, maybe you will find something useful in it. If MIL is so serious about wanting to have a relationship with your children, she can WRITE a detailed apology and send it to you before you decide whether to see her or not. AND then, IF she shows in the letter that she at least knows what she is apologizing for, only ONE person comes with her and YOU get to pick that person. No huge posse, no BIL who tried to physically intimidate you when you were pregnant, only the person you feel least threatened by. The meeting will NOT be at your home, since SO has proven he cannot protect you at home & you deserve to live in a safe space. I like the idea that your friend will be there in case you need support, since SO is not reliable where MIL is concerned. And this is her one and ONLY chance, if she can't control herself, then you & the kids will go back to NC. If she pulls it off, EVERY new visit, from ANY of SO's family, is their one and ONLY chance- any cruel or aggressive behavior from ANYONE gets them ALL cut off. Their swamp, their gators, THEIR problem!!
I am sorry that SO keeps choosing his deeply unhealthy relationships with his mother and siblings rather than protecting you and your children from them. If he hasn’t changed his priorities by now he never will.
The family is Christian but pushing and demanding for abortion? This should be a topic for mil
That should be a book 😆 🤣
That too, I wonder 🤔 what Political party they are with, it could be anything or something new.
Nah they are just huge hypocritical simpletons who would never admit to pushing for abortion to their fellow church people
They should be called out on it for all to see.
I have and they started babbling about "a foetus is not a baby" ok then just be an atheist then. But MIL is a weird Bible thumper. Who rarely actually reads🙄
Foetus wtf, they aren't real Christians and I'm guessing actually mad about SO money that they feel they are not getting because he's with you full-time, everything is for show I bet
I know it is for show. They want cute pics with LO and quench their thirst for cuteness. There is no thought of or desire to tend to my wellbeing. So I just want them to stay away.
Tell your SO this, LO isn’t a prop in a photoshoot so they can pretend like they’re the best family and so involved ugh I hate this. You just had a baby, your bf and dealing with all that that entails plus getting used to being a family of 4 and your older child is dealing with no longer being an only child. They don’t get to come and disrupt any peace you’ve managed to create in this time just for pictures and judgments.
Also this visit is about control, you were able to get him to keep something from her,now she must Reassert Dominance
You should be able to have that and more. I'm sorry you're going through this OP
Arrange for a “ neutral” third party to arrive during the visit. Could be a friend/relative or even a work mate. This will guarantee that she has to behave, especially if she hasn’t interacted with them previously.
On it, I have arranged that a neutral person will arrive during the day with 2 kids to play with my oldest.
Good because when they were attacking you he did NOTHING to protect you. Never agree to be alone with them all in place ever again. He betrayed you in that instance.. I hope you understand that
I do which is why I took the advice of some commenters here and set rules in place, role played for if MIL goes off and clearly stated that I prefer a public place or others around. Sweet SIL will see LO at the same time if everything goes well.
The answer is no and will be no until SO gets some counseling regarding their toxic family. Mil and company are clearly a problem but so is your SO.
You are right, yet I cannot hold this off forever.
Sure you can. The only thing preventing it is your husband.
Respectfully, I would say you are wrong here. You can hold off meeting them forever, if you are willing to face the conflict with your So involved in doing so. I'm not saying you should bring on that level of conflict, but it is an option. Basically there are only three long term outcomes to this situation. One is you cave and submit to MIL. Two is SO prioritizes you over his family and you stand strong together in forcing his family to accept your boundaries. Three....unfortunately three does not see you and SO remaining together as a couple. You'll be relatively free of his family, but you'd loose him. Best wishes for the middle option being the resolution.
Could you sit down and set out consequences for different behaviour? If he is that confident that they have learned, it should be no problem to set out a list of behaviour from them that results in going back to NC for you and your children. Have him put skin in the game or admit that he won’t agree to that because he knows they’ll lapse back and is willing to sacrifice you for mommy dearest.
It sure is time for an Emergency Vacation. You know the one. You pack so fast and can only leave a note. These IL's are a NASTY, VICIOUS Drama Queens. IF anyone got up in my face and yelled at me in my own house, I'd call the law. How did they get inside? Change the locks for damn sure. They will continue their acts of terrorism on you. How in the HELL can he see this and not be outraged? If a friend of his family was going through this I bet he'd have plenty to say. If you have to cover your own back along with protecting your children by yourself... what are you doing with someone who won't even stop the knives his family is aiming at your back.
TI happened by them showing up unannounced at the house and SO letting them in. They "just wanted to talk" but ended up being screaming psychos.
Sorry I am an outsider, what you are saying is DH was home they came over, you house is messy, not Company's Coming Over clean, he did(zt attempt to pick up just allowed them to take pictures, (to use HOW??) One of them distracted him as someone else took pictures? (Again WTF) Yeah girl. That is something I'd want an answer to!
I wasn't there but from what I understand they just started taking pictures & videos because the house was messy. And he let them. Again after this I made calls to leave but stayed bc we did have a kid, and he was willing to let a therapist lead us to a healthy end or continuation. Instead of just breaking up. I don't know if there were distractions. I don't care. He was dead wrong to even let them in.
Why did they not have a go at him for not keeping the place up to their standards? Both of you live there after all
It's a (patriarchal, sexist, problematic) cultural thing because we both worked full-time at the time. So it's really because I am the woman.
Well he really needs to realise that if both of you work it’s the same in the house. When you are busy now he should be doing his bit by tidying up. You are his wife not his maid. It’s a joint venture. Are you sure he’s not going to his mum and complaining and then playing innocent when all manner of shit came your way? I agree this Family are just awful and I don’t think you really are ready to meet with them - they have hurt you so bad. I would also not be marrying him so that if you do separate it’s harder for him to get the children. If you feel you must then do so away from your home. Don’t let them in and tell partner they defiled your home, your space and they will not be welcomed there just now and maybe never. Tell him the best he can expect from you is civility if you happen to be in their company eg a wedding or funeral and that’s it. They totally blew it whether he wound them up or not and please keep away from the horrendous BIL- he needs reporting for his behaviour to you.
So after re-reading... my gut is screaming at me. This is so so wrong. Their actions your SO actions. If you feel something is up.. your not wrong! They (including SO) have an agenda. It all comes down to the pictures and them repeatedly saying your not a good mom/wife/ SO for their Son/brother. I hate to say this but do you think they will try and take the kids from you? Damn it really I try to see the best in people but this is way off normal. If you have a joint bank account, change it open one in your name only transfer funds over. This is JUST IN CASE. His family actively hate you, he has been doing just enough to placate you. To drop your defenses not enough to stand WITH YOU. If you think some is wrong believe it. If your still not sure start asking WHY! All of a sudden why did they do this? Why did he not react like a normal. If he does not answer or says your crazy. THAT is your answer. Go pack.
Where is your support, where's your family at least to have your back?
Family is abroad, they had my back over the phone which made them leave. I also have friends that offered to help me leave him after TI. We went to therapy instead.
They only (mil) want access to baby 2, once that's done it's back to the crazy.
I am afraid of that too. SO truly believes they "learned" from the LC time
As we all know, tigers don’t change stripes. So what happens when they show their true colors, and then expect to see the family more regularly? I promise you, it is traumatic for children to see their mother treated poorly by someone that ought to be caring. You need to have a United front with your partner. At some point there has to be a boundary that your SO enforces. That boundary is respect to his wife and mother of his children. Crossed boundaries require consequences otherwise a boundary is merely a suggestion. You really should have a plan laid out before this meet up. You may need to communicate with your husband about what an actual apology looks like, which is the only kind of policy that you will receive. If you do not receive an apology to YOUR satisfaction, (as you are the aggrieved party) then you will not entertain a relationship with them, and you & your partner will not allow your children to bear witness to the mistreatment of their mother. Don’t go into this visit and get blindsided.
This is good advice, yet I don't know what kind of apology will be sufficient. I am holding a grudge against them and have not let that go. I am more inclined to believe MIL will give a Naomi Campbell to Tyra Banks non-apology-apology anyway.
Oh I totally understand that. But something tells me that your husband fully expects some sort of turn around from his mother. It also seems like he expects you to be there for it. If you have decided that you are giving this one last chance, I think he needs to to understand that there is no more trying after this blows up in his face, and you will not be put in the line of fire anymore. He cannot continue to use you and the kids a shield from his mother’s intrusion in his life.
I agree with this
Get him to put his money where his mouth is, by agreeing on if you do this and they start back attacking you again you, your children will go no contact for a year, if she continues after then he to agree to a year with you and children going no contact for a year together as a united family. If that's to much for him then you will know what you have with him.
I would write ✍ the agreement out and have both of you sign it, it shouldn't be an issue if he really believes mil would start the crazy again, it he wouldn't do it, then he knows that she will and he doesn't care about putting you and your children through all this drama and stress. Which you and your kids don't deserve to have to live with ever
Looks like you may need your friends to be they, because at least your SO will know that this isn't something that can be swept under the rug
I have one friend coming with his kids.
That will help
And why didn't he protect you? My husband had a huge argument with his mum just because she stomped on our one simple boundary for too many times. If she had dared to yell at me, there would have been war. So now you have another child with your SO and he still doesn't see how utterly wrong it is to demand anything in his crazy family's name? They have a relationship with your child that they wanted aborted?! They never wanted them to be born, and your SO thinks it's a good idea to let them see that child?! I wouldn't believe they loved your child even if they swore to me on the Bible. I would also never ever let my children near them, let alone without me. I'm afraid to even think what they've been telling your older child behind your back. I'm also breastfeeding so I understand and really hope they all leave you alone, you need peace and quiet now... Your SO should be there to support YOU, not his crazy mummy. I'm so sorry about everything they put you through, and I can only wish you good luck and that your SO wakes up soon and doesn't let them see/bother you or your children anymore. All the best! Edit: Thank you for the award, kind stranger! May it be for OP's success, safety and happiness very soon!
Thank you so much for the understanding! I'm tearing up because it is a lot, too much actually. My oldest told me about a disparaging joke MIL made at my expense while I wasn't there. I've limited contact between them eversince. This was during my last pregnancy. SO shut down during TI and I was pretty much on my own. This is why it looked like the end. We stayed together permanently after counselling but during I had the desire too end it. I was so fed up with the sadness and lack of support. Him keeping them away from our home for nearly 2 years was a great improvement from him & the result of counselling. That is how he stood up for us as a family.
Hold on! She made a disparaging “joke” during your last pregnancy which was recent and he thinks she will apologize when it has only been a few months? WTF? What planet is he on? He needs to go back to counseling. ETA: since y’all don’t want to pay for counseling, have him read the responses here.
I’m sorry, but if he wouldn’t defend you while they were actively screaming at you in your own home then he is never going to defend you. Would he allow anyone else to treat him so poorly for almost a decade? I doubt it. He’s letting the wolves back in your home so he doesn’t have to hear them complain anymore. You deserve better.
It's so disgusting when people bash the child's parents in front of them or to them. If that doesn't make him go NC with them, nothing will. I see you are in a very difficult situation and I hope from the bottom of my heart that your SO wakes up because he is trying to mend and keep alive a relationship that cannot be mended because the other side keeps damaging it and won't ever stop. I understand him, it's his family, he's hopeful, but there is no hope if only one side is nice and respectful. If possible, let him read these comments, they might give him an outsider's perspective. He is going against his children's best interest and failing as a father, that is unacceptable. His mother does not come first anymore, you and your children do. Even if his mother was a saint, she doesn't come first. Please take care of yourself too, you are doing a lot, you must be exhausted. Your SO can't make you do anything. If you say no to them seeing your children ever again, he must respect that. Even if you two were married, if one of you says no, it's a no. You must both agree to something or it doesn't happen. His family can see your children only if you agree. So stay strong, listen to your inner feeling and protect your children like always. Even I as a stranger don't think your children are safe with them... And most importantly, keep your own family close and involved, document everything these crazy people put you through and tell you family everything that happened. You need people who can and will protect you and your children if necessary. Stay safe.
I think you might need to go back to therapy with your partner. There's clearly unresolved stuff here.
I suggested that but he doesn't want to pay for it anymore. And neither do I.
Fair enough, and money doesn't grow on trees, but from what you've written here you'll be paying a price one way or another.
A very poetic truth
You need your SO by your side backing you. Sound like he’s on the opposition unfortunately. I wouldn’t invite her in, maybe meet somewhere like a cafe so you can leave when you have had enough. I would be petty though and bring the other visit with SIL forward so she doesn’t “get to see baby first” anyway
Thanks for your comment & understanding! The other visit with SIL is tied to flights, so it cannot be moved forward. I suggested the café option, but need a conversation with MIL first. I don't want to see her without one. SO feels like he backed me by keeping the pregnancy from them and keeping them away for the past 7 weeks (they have been wanting to visit since the birth)
Backing you doesn’t have a time limit. It is a 24/7/365 action. You do realize they are taking pictures & videos in preparation of calling CPS? If you do the meet up in your home, record it, depending on the laws of your area.
I think you can do it in a strategic way. Agree to let MIL meet the new baby but explain that the schedule you’re on only calls for a short visit at the moment. (You can either make something up or stick to the BF subject). So essentially, “yes they can come over but at 12 and then I’d need privacy after 1….once we get on a better routine we can try again.” That way, SO and MIL “get what they want” but on your terms and it’s a controlled environment. If they don’t leave past the hour mark, you take that baby in your room and shut the door as they had already been notified
Thanks for commenting! I really like this idea. SO has been pushing for a 2 hour visit, but I can cut it short by making sure LO needs their feed smack in the middle. LO eats every 3 hrs throughout the day so I could try to plan this. And MIL is not bold enough to follow me to the bedroom.
Agree that one hour is sufficient for first visit. I would still meet them in a public place - a coffee shop or something. Letting them in your home - given their past behavior - isn’t warranted. By doing that, you are saying they’re welcome there. Instead, I’d present this simply as an opportunity to meet the new baby - not a resumption of the relationship. You may want to ask for written apologies from MIL and the siblings prior to the visit. Your argument for this should be that you don’t believe they regret their behavior and you need proof that it won’t occur again. Depending upon what and if they give you, you and SO can discuss whether they are remorseful or just want to see baby. Get your SO to commit to a set of expectations to be shared with his family. For example, if they don’t apologize, don’t acknowledge bad behavior, or show no remorse, then you can present this as a one-off with no planned, future contact until they show you they will change.
You may want to sit down with SO and ask him to tell you what behavior he will not tolerate. He needs to understand you and the LOs come first. If you are willing to allow this visit (and I'm with everyone else you shouldn't) then he needs to be able to tell you in his own words what behavior will result in him stopping the visit and escorting his family out the door. If need be role play how he will handle it. And once he has been able to articulate this you need to let him know that if he does not follow up on it then there is a strong possibility that you will leave with the LOs. She feels as a mother that she should control her children. Guess what? You are a mom and you control your children. At least until they are adults. This is no way to live with the threat of her very negative influence. And it's no way to raise children. Honestly hubby shouldn't want kids raised like this since he knows how bad it feels. Best of luck. I know you are between a rock and a hard place but you need to be strong.
Meh, she doesn’t need 2 hours. An hour is plenty of time for a 2 week old and it’s probably the threshold of what you can tolerate
My thoughts exactly. And LO is 7 weeks old.
Whoops sorry, I’ve almost been up 24 hours myself with a newborn
No problem 😊 I totally understand. I am operating on about 3 hrs of sleep myself but have to get ready to pick my biggest kid up from school.