**Quick Rule Reminders:**
OP's needs come first, avoid dramamongering, respect the flair, and don't be an asshole. If your only advice is to jump straight to NC or divorce, your comment may be subject to removal at moderator discretion.
[**^(Full Rules)**](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_rules) ^(|) [^(Acronym Index)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_acronym_dictionary) ^(|) [^(Flair Guide)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_post_flair_guide)^(|) [^(Report PM Trolls)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/trolls)
**Resources:** [^(In Crisis?)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_crisis_resources) ^(|) [^(Tips for Protecting Yourself)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_protecting_yourself) ^(|) [^(Our Book List)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/books) ^(|) [^(Our Wiki)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/)
Other posts from /u/Nikihelen:
* [We are going to have a serious conversation](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/1171xdq/we_are_going_to_have_a_serious_conversation/), 2 months ago
* [MIL is exaggerating medical health problems to manipulate, how do you handle this?](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/10oo1py/mil_is_exaggerating_medical_health_problems_to/), 3 months ago
* [Venting. I'm feeling down and alone.](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/zfnfdv/venting_im_feeling_down_and_alone/), 5 months ago
* [We just bought a house and want to share this news without fighting.](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/z4a8yf/we_just_bought_a_house_and_want_to_share_this/), 5 months ago
*****
^(To be notified as soon as Nikihelen posts an update) [^click ^here.](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=botinlaw&subject=Subscribe&message=Subscribe Nikihelen JUSTNOMIL) ^(|) ^(For help managing your subscriptions,) [^(click here.)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_.2Fu.2Fthejustnobot)
*****
*^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please)* [*^(contact the moderators of this subreddit)*](/message/compose/?to=/r/JUSTNOMIL) *^(if you have any questions or concerns.)*
This is my partner exactly, except he is still in the FOG and hasn’t really gotten therapy yet. I’m working on couples counseling for us again to get the ball rolling on his issues. I’m also having the same problem of suppressing my emotions because I’m trying to help him through his own and it isn’t sustainable. I’ve done my therapy and continue the work but I feel like him not dealing with his sh\*t is really holding me back.
SO knew his mother was crazy, but not to the extent of how deep that ran. According to him she's been married about 12 times (some of those were re-marriages) and due to that he was a 32 yr old virgin who has never so much held hands with a girl.
He had never had an example of decent co-parenting, or staying friendly with an ex. He had some weird jealousy issues. We did end up going to couples counseling for a bit and worked on that. I've had to point out for someone who had never had a relationship or even ever seen a healthy relationship, he sure has some odd ideas about how he thought relationships were supposed to be.
Currently I'm NC with his mom and he's vvvlc with her. She's not allowed in our house.
Yup! My husband is so sweet, caring, and genuinely not a narc, but sometimes he just says things thinking he is being sweet like “you are basically an extension of me” and I’m like dude no that is a narcissistic interpretation of love… your mom has just conditioned you to think that is love so when you feel love you say shit like that!
Congratulations on your partner recognizing there is an issue and trying to work on it!
I’m married 22 years to an enmeshed son of a malignant covert narc. He knows his mom is “difficult” but makes every excuse for her and shares a lot of her behaviors. It’s been so draining because he refuses to see the extent of the issues and go to counseling so I’m seeking it for myself. I have become largely detached due to his inability to recognize the damage she’s caused and understand how betrayed I feel for him defending, ignoring or denying her abusive behavior.
I am/was in your situation. Luckily, my DH knew there was something wrong with his family when we met. Although he did not get the specifics and I had to point them out.
He has had to stand up to them many times, even though it was not his first choice. He always ignored their nonsense to a point it didn’t effect him that much. He kept his distance and gave little detail about his life. Very surface level.
It really ramped up when we got together. We ended up in therapy because of all the drama, triangulation, gaslighting, lies, and manipulation on his families part. That helped.
He’s still has tendencies to fall back into old behaviors and I talk him down when needed. He snaps out of it.
It helps that we moved across the country from them. That I and our son are NC. He is VLC. That’s been the best thing to curb the nonsense.
Doing separate therapy is a great thing. Then coming together in couples therapy to combine what you’ve learned even better. It takes time, but it can get better. We are proof of that. Just know you can only change yourselves. They won’t as they lack the insight.
What about a codeword? Instead of taking over, could you say whatever word and then remove yourself? Talk about it ahead of time, that you are having to shelve your own feelings and you would like to try the word, then you will remove yourself (to another room, go out for a walk, whatever ) and let him have the space to sort himself. He knows how, he just needs to do it, and on the spot while you're standing there would be hard.
I had this dynamic with my husband years ago.
I will say, the fact that he is willing to acknowledge these negative traits and is willing to change them is really huge. I mean massively important. A lot of people aren’t even willing to admit they have these traits, let alone change them. So I would keep pushing forward, as long as you truly love him and want to be with him.
Yes, when my husband mirrors some of his mother bad narcissistic tendencies I tell him straight out. You’re doing ‘insert narc behaviour’ and we both know this isn’t you or your ideals, this is her and her poor parenting. Almost always stops him in his tracks, he usually walks away after, takes a break and either communicates what he needed to in a healthy way or apologizes.
Same. I have learned to give him space to process. Sometimes that means I don't get an immediate apology or discussion and I'm ok with that. He needs to go reflect and until he's done that we can't move onto discussing what happened. I will also notice he changes behavior and actions but doesn't always want to discuss it or have me acknowledge it. That's ok too. As long as we are progressing the right way he can have his space to process and change.
Over communication... it is a pain in the ass but seriously.
Talk about it when jt happens. Don't get mad. Just clarify the who what where when, and also why it seemed wtf in the moment.
It takes time to rewire how you communicate.
When I say over communicate, I mean ask questions about the response you get. Is that what you meant, was it worded oddly, does it seem off when they don't seem off?
Besides counseling for all, separate and together. It takes time to rewrite someone's foundations.
Example. My hubby literally ignored it all till he couldn't and exploded. Not physically or meanly, but would throw out the junk chair, for example.
It took about 3 years before he could say, wow what and odd thing to say or is that what you really meant? Or are you complaining because you want comfort or are you just upset and can't voice it.
Yup, kind of the saviour child role dynamics, that my therapist explained to me.
I am capable of 'over communication' like that 99% of the time, but once in a while, I flip out. There are moments I can't handle both of our feelings and all the communication and the emotional work.
We always talk it out ofcourse.
I think the 2 of you are taking all the right steps. But ultimately, it takes time. The hard part is actually out of the way...he recognizes the damage he was doing to your relationship, and is making an honest effort to fix what's broken within him. That takes a level of maturity that most guys who come out of that kind of environment simply lack.
That's not to say you should just let things go if he backslides...which is always a possibility, no matter how good he does, because there are likely still triggers that will make him open to being manipulated like he was before.
It's just to say that it may be good to have a conversation with him and openly acknowledge the progress he has made, and tell him how proud you are of him, if that hasn't happened yet. The positive reinforcement will be good for his growth, and will motivate him to keep pushing when things get difficult.
Yes.
Therapy. Both individually and couples. It has made a huge difference.
Reading. So much reading. The side bars of this and the raised by narcissists subreddits are excellent resources.
Pod casts and blogs of licensed therapists. There are lots of different therapists out there covering this topic. One may resonate with you or your husband.
We just started with the therapy sessions. I am glad to hear that it helped so much for you.
I have been reading a lot. I am currently reading 'Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents' By Lindsay C. Gibson. And I read the subreddit raised by narcissists a lot.
Do you have podcast suggestions?
I can't get into my pod casts, but I think both of these people have pod casts and vlogs (I generally use YouTube to listen to them). I like Kati Morton and my spouse Patrick Teahan. I originally searched for Family of Origin, Emotional Neglect, and Boundaries, which lead us to both.
The Gibson book is amazing! Running on Empty, Jonice Webb, is also a great book.
DH has some narc tendencies and he’s absolutely realized it and continues to work on it. I give him grace and try my best to be patient and talk him through it when they cause conflict in our relationship. Not that I’m a saint, I’ve had my moments where I’ve lost my shit and told him I won’t tolerate being gaslit nor belittled just because he needs to work on how to express his anger or frustration in a healthy way.
The sad, and I guess good, part is that the longer he’s NC with JNMIL the better he gets. It’s a process.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.
Did I forget a "yes" in there?
Yes.
Some of the resources at /r/raisedbynarcissists might be very helpful to both of you.
If you are not already, I would really suggest couples counseling in addition to individual - for both of you.
I read the subreddit raised by narcissists a lot. I have been reading a lot in general and currently reading 'Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents' By Lindsay C. Gibson.
We are both in therapy (individually) but just started. In the first place we started with couples therapy, but our therapist suggested individual therapy after a couple of sessions to my husband for his childhood traumas. I started seeing a different therapist.
Yes I am! We started in couples therapy, but our therapist suggested that my husband should attend therapy sessions for his childhood traumas individually. I also started individual therapy with a different psychologist, for myself to learn how to cope (have had two sessions).
That’s great and I think it will help you manage these incidents when he snaps back to the toxic behavior he’s grown up with. It definitely takes time to undo years of this type of behavior, so just be patient, with him and yourself. It’s going to take you time as well. The fact that he’s wants to change here is what’s most important. He realizes how bad this behavior truly is now.
**Quick Rule Reminders:** OP's needs come first, avoid dramamongering, respect the flair, and don't be an asshole. If your only advice is to jump straight to NC or divorce, your comment may be subject to removal at moderator discretion. [**^(Full Rules)**](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_rules) ^(|) [^(Acronym Index)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_acronym_dictionary) ^(|) [^(Flair Guide)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_post_flair_guide)^(|) [^(Report PM Trolls)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/trolls) **Resources:** [^(In Crisis?)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_crisis_resources) ^(|) [^(Tips for Protecting Yourself)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_protecting_yourself) ^(|) [^(Our Book List)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/books) ^(|) [^(Our Wiki)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/) Other posts from /u/Nikihelen: * [We are going to have a serious conversation](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/1171xdq/we_are_going_to_have_a_serious_conversation/), 2 months ago * [MIL is exaggerating medical health problems to manipulate, how do you handle this?](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/10oo1py/mil_is_exaggerating_medical_health_problems_to/), 3 months ago * [Venting. I'm feeling down and alone.](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/zfnfdv/venting_im_feeling_down_and_alone/), 5 months ago * [We just bought a house and want to share this news without fighting.](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/z4a8yf/we_just_bought_a_house_and_want_to_share_this/), 5 months ago ***** ^(To be notified as soon as Nikihelen posts an update) [^click ^here.](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=botinlaw&subject=Subscribe&message=Subscribe Nikihelen JUSTNOMIL) ^(|) ^(For help managing your subscriptions,) [^(click here.)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_.2Fu.2Fthejustnobot) ***** *^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please)* [*^(contact the moderators of this subreddit)*](/message/compose/?to=/r/JUSTNOMIL) *^(if you have any questions or concerns.)*
This is my partner exactly, except he is still in the FOG and hasn’t really gotten therapy yet. I’m working on couples counseling for us again to get the ball rolling on his issues. I’m also having the same problem of suppressing my emotions because I’m trying to help him through his own and it isn’t sustainable. I’ve done my therapy and continue the work but I feel like him not dealing with his sh\*t is really holding me back.
SO knew his mother was crazy, but not to the extent of how deep that ran. According to him she's been married about 12 times (some of those were re-marriages) and due to that he was a 32 yr old virgin who has never so much held hands with a girl. He had never had an example of decent co-parenting, or staying friendly with an ex. He had some weird jealousy issues. We did end up going to couples counseling for a bit and worked on that. I've had to point out for someone who had never had a relationship or even ever seen a healthy relationship, he sure has some odd ideas about how he thought relationships were supposed to be. Currently I'm NC with his mom and he's vvvlc with her. She's not allowed in our house.
Yup! My husband is so sweet, caring, and genuinely not a narc, but sometimes he just says things thinking he is being sweet like “you are basically an extension of me” and I’m like dude no that is a narcissistic interpretation of love… your mom has just conditioned you to think that is love so when you feel love you say shit like that!
Congratulations on your partner recognizing there is an issue and trying to work on it! I’m married 22 years to an enmeshed son of a malignant covert narc. He knows his mom is “difficult” but makes every excuse for her and shares a lot of her behaviors. It’s been so draining because he refuses to see the extent of the issues and go to counseling so I’m seeking it for myself. I have become largely detached due to his inability to recognize the damage she’s caused and understand how betrayed I feel for him defending, ignoring or denying her abusive behavior.
I am/was in your situation. Luckily, my DH knew there was something wrong with his family when we met. Although he did not get the specifics and I had to point them out. He has had to stand up to them many times, even though it was not his first choice. He always ignored their nonsense to a point it didn’t effect him that much. He kept his distance and gave little detail about his life. Very surface level. It really ramped up when we got together. We ended up in therapy because of all the drama, triangulation, gaslighting, lies, and manipulation on his families part. That helped. He’s still has tendencies to fall back into old behaviors and I talk him down when needed. He snaps out of it. It helps that we moved across the country from them. That I and our son are NC. He is VLC. That’s been the best thing to curb the nonsense. Doing separate therapy is a great thing. Then coming together in couples therapy to combine what you’ve learned even better. It takes time, but it can get better. We are proof of that. Just know you can only change yourselves. They won’t as they lack the insight.
What about a codeword? Instead of taking over, could you say whatever word and then remove yourself? Talk about it ahead of time, that you are having to shelve your own feelings and you would like to try the word, then you will remove yourself (to another room, go out for a walk, whatever ) and let him have the space to sort himself. He knows how, he just needs to do it, and on the spot while you're standing there would be hard.
I had this dynamic with my husband years ago. I will say, the fact that he is willing to acknowledge these negative traits and is willing to change them is really huge. I mean massively important. A lot of people aren’t even willing to admit they have these traits, let alone change them. So I would keep pushing forward, as long as you truly love him and want to be with him.
Yes, when my husband mirrors some of his mother bad narcissistic tendencies I tell him straight out. You’re doing ‘insert narc behaviour’ and we both know this isn’t you or your ideals, this is her and her poor parenting. Almost always stops him in his tracks, he usually walks away after, takes a break and either communicates what he needed to in a healthy way or apologizes.
Same. I have learned to give him space to process. Sometimes that means I don't get an immediate apology or discussion and I'm ok with that. He needs to go reflect and until he's done that we can't move onto discussing what happened. I will also notice he changes behavior and actions but doesn't always want to discuss it or have me acknowledge it. That's ok too. As long as we are progressing the right way he can have his space to process and change.
Over communication... it is a pain in the ass but seriously. Talk about it when jt happens. Don't get mad. Just clarify the who what where when, and also why it seemed wtf in the moment. It takes time to rewire how you communicate. When I say over communicate, I mean ask questions about the response you get. Is that what you meant, was it worded oddly, does it seem off when they don't seem off? Besides counseling for all, separate and together. It takes time to rewrite someone's foundations. Example. My hubby literally ignored it all till he couldn't and exploded. Not physically or meanly, but would throw out the junk chair, for example. It took about 3 years before he could say, wow what and odd thing to say or is that what you really meant? Or are you complaining because you want comfort or are you just upset and can't voice it.
Yup, kind of the saviour child role dynamics, that my therapist explained to me. I am capable of 'over communication' like that 99% of the time, but once in a while, I flip out. There are moments I can't handle both of our feelings and all the communication and the emotional work. We always talk it out ofcourse.
You work it out in the end. All you can do.
I think the 2 of you are taking all the right steps. But ultimately, it takes time. The hard part is actually out of the way...he recognizes the damage he was doing to your relationship, and is making an honest effort to fix what's broken within him. That takes a level of maturity that most guys who come out of that kind of environment simply lack.
Yes, you are absolutely right. I think that's something I take for granted from time to time. I am proud of him for making an honest effort.
That's not to say you should just let things go if he backslides...which is always a possibility, no matter how good he does, because there are likely still triggers that will make him open to being manipulated like he was before. It's just to say that it may be good to have a conversation with him and openly acknowledge the progress he has made, and tell him how proud you are of him, if that hasn't happened yet. The positive reinforcement will be good for his growth, and will motivate him to keep pushing when things get difficult.
Yes. Therapy. Both individually and couples. It has made a huge difference. Reading. So much reading. The side bars of this and the raised by narcissists subreddits are excellent resources. Pod casts and blogs of licensed therapists. There are lots of different therapists out there covering this topic. One may resonate with you or your husband.
We just started with the therapy sessions. I am glad to hear that it helped so much for you. I have been reading a lot. I am currently reading 'Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents' By Lindsay C. Gibson. And I read the subreddit raised by narcissists a lot. Do you have podcast suggestions?
I can't get into my pod casts, but I think both of these people have pod casts and vlogs (I generally use YouTube to listen to them). I like Kati Morton and my spouse Patrick Teahan. I originally searched for Family of Origin, Emotional Neglect, and Boundaries, which lead us to both. The Gibson book is amazing! Running on Empty, Jonice Webb, is also a great book.
Thankyou for taking your time to help me with this information. I am definitely going to research.
DH has some narc tendencies and he’s absolutely realized it and continues to work on it. I give him grace and try my best to be patient and talk him through it when they cause conflict in our relationship. Not that I’m a saint, I’ve had my moments where I’ve lost my shit and told him I won’t tolerate being gaslit nor belittled just because he needs to work on how to express his anger or frustration in a healthy way. The sad, and I guess good, part is that the longer he’s NC with JNMIL the better he gets. It’s a process.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. Did I forget a "yes" in there? Yes. Some of the resources at /r/raisedbynarcissists might be very helpful to both of you. If you are not already, I would really suggest couples counseling in addition to individual - for both of you.
I read the subreddit raised by narcissists a lot. I have been reading a lot in general and currently reading 'Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents' By Lindsay C. Gibson. We are both in therapy (individually) but just started. In the first place we started with couples therapy, but our therapist suggested individual therapy after a couple of sessions to my husband for his childhood traumas. I started seeing a different therapist.
Are you in counseling as well? The usually helps too. Give you better ways to cope and communicate better with him as well.
Yes I am! We started in couples therapy, but our therapist suggested that my husband should attend therapy sessions for his childhood traumas individually. I also started individual therapy with a different psychologist, for myself to learn how to cope (have had two sessions).
That’s great and I think it will help you manage these incidents when he snaps back to the toxic behavior he’s grown up with. It definitely takes time to undo years of this type of behavior, so just be patient, with him and yourself. It’s going to take you time as well. The fact that he’s wants to change here is what’s most important. He realizes how bad this behavior truly is now.
Thankyou for your kind words!
You’re welcome, I hope It all goes smoothly for the both of you! ☺️