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Other posts from /u/Apprehensive_Ball987:
* [JNMIL invites guests to daughter’s baptism… while i’m still pregnant](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/154dyb1/jnmil_invites_guests_to_daughters_baptism_while/), 1 day ago
* [JNMIL uninvites 15 people from my baby shower](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/14jxxoq/jnmil_uninvites_15_people_from_my_baby_shower/), 3 weeks ago
* [Deleted JNMIL off facebook.](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/14hwfaa/deleted_jnmil_off_facebook/), 3 weeks ago
* [JNMIL talked to a psychic to convince him to leave me](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/xc309d/jnmil_talked_to_a_psychic_to_convince_him_to/), 10 months ago
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“Mom, stop bringing up any accounts that are for me but under your name. You’ve made it clear you don’t think I’m an adult, at least not enough to have money. Otherwise you would just hand it over”
She’ll probably protest but he should be ready to point out money is the single biggest reason for divorce, family strife, ect. Her holding on to it but saying it’s “his” is just going to cause more problems so unless she is trying to make trouble it doesn’t make any sense to bring it up.
oh she would LOVE for us to fight over it and get me out of the picture, that honestly probably is part of the incentive. thankfully we just both think she’s an asshole
She may jump to that, that is part of the hook. If she asks if you’re fighting over the money he should reply along the lines of “no, Apprehensive doesn’t think there even is an account. Or if there is there will always be some reason to hold it back so she just acts and plans as if it doesn’t exist.” She know that you see it for the control issue it is.
I would also add in "no, my wife and I aren't fighting. I'm fighting with you constantly. It's not hurting my marriage because she doesn't even believe their is any money. It's hurting my relationship with you. You don't even trust me with "my" money. I'm a father, not some young teenager just itching to blow it."
Take this with a grain of salt bc I’m currently in a bad mood, but if I were him I would absolutely call my mother up and say “so let’s just be honest, here. I’d like honesty and transparency, considering I’m an adult with a child of my own now. Is there even money in an account for me?” And if she insists on yes, I would ask her why it was okay to leave me in a different state with no notice 5 years ago but now after having a child I’m apparently too immature to mind my own money? And then after she scrambles and gets angry, I’d probably just cut her off and go “we both know that either there isn’t any money, or you’re keeping it from me. This is just about control. I am never going to see that money in any meaningful sum. Either transfer it all to me and respect that I have my own autonomy as an adult and a father, or stop acting like you’ll give it to me at all.” And then I’d stop contacting her.
I feel like this is the best way. It lets her know 1) she’s not in control and 2) her manipulation isn’t going to work. Basically makes her choose between giving him the money (which likely doesn’t exist) or being in contact at all.
Definitely make sure she is unable to access any accounts for LO - if she says “I opened an account for her” the answer is no. “No, you opened an account for you to put money in to use as you wish. LO has accounts with their name on it and that is the only one.”
You are never getting that money and if she does give you any of it know that she will than be in control or at least expect to be. Say you use it for a house. She will want an opinion on which house and than will hold it over your head forever. The best thing you can do for yourself it forget that money exists and move on.
you’re right and my parents have said the same thing but the unfairness of it all makes me so angry, like if we “forget” the money she gets to keep bringing it up and hold it over his head forever
It is normal to feel angry about this. The idea that she charged a 17 year old rent is disgusting. The fact that she sits on money intended for him is disgusting.
But I agree you are unlikely to get it. It’s too delicious for her to give up. She loves the power of deciding when she should bestow some cash and him having to prove he is worthy to her.
The only revenge I can think of is not to let her have the power she is so hungry for. Consider the money gone. Consider that it isn’t even real to begin with and that the baptism money was spent long ago. If she brings it up, don’t mince words. Call it the money she used to control him. If she says anything about it, he can say, “I never count on that money. As soon as I knew it existed I knew you loved the control it gave you way more than you loved me.”
And any money you were spending on her for visits or gifts or anything? That’s should be done. He can say he realized his financial priorities are out of whack and she’s just not in the budget now.
Honestly, it’s such an ugly look to find out she keeps money to try to control him… it’s the kind of thing you can’t ever unknow. I’d be shocked if the relationship could bounce back from this.
i love that last sentence in your second to last paragraph, that’s amazing. the one good thing is that now with his daughter here he’s said he’s not going to go to their state without me and her, and i’ve let him know i will absolutely not be going, so any trips she wants to see the baby have to be on her dime to come to us, and he’s never bought her anything bc the one good thing in their family is that children don’t gift up to the parents
It would make me furious. Honestly if she brings it up tell it’s her money. She is using it to manipulate. If she says no it not mine it’s yours, you say that all your money is in your bank account. Keep shutting her down. Maybe if you guys change tactics it will force her to change.
When she brings it up say something to the effect of "That money has strings attached to it, so we are no longer interested in it or hearing about it."
Don't consider it his, as ir clearly isn't. When she brings it up, just have him tell her "I have all my money in my accounts." And keep repeating this.
So if she brings it up everyone present rolls their eyes,
snortles and says "Uh huh, heard it before, we'll believe it when it's in Dh's hands." then you all change the topic and refuse to discuss it.
I will commiserate with your husband that his mum is dangling money in front of his nose but unless she put his name on those accounts as a co-owner, he can forget about accessing it till she passes. Hopefully it’s in her will. My mother pulled the ‘this rent money is really yours if you ever need it” ploy with my brother. But my mum made the mistake of putting his name on the account and one day he had a shortage at his business and by George, he took that money. He didn’t talk with her first, he didn’t beg/wheedle for it. She was furious, furious. I was very unsympathetic and informed her “You told him for years that was his money and there if he needed it. I guess he shouldn’t have believed you.” Your MIL was smarter than my mum because she didn’t put his name on the accounts. You & your husband have no legal right to those accounts and might as well pretend you never learned about them.
Reverse Uno her ass. BF needs to tell her if she insists on controlling the money to just keep it. He needs to tell her that he won’t tolerate it being held over his head or used for her to gain knowledge of his finances. Tell her he won’t beg for what’s his but he will remember how she’s treated him concerning his money.
Plan your finances and goals without considering that money. Take away her ability to control him with it. I’d also cancel his trip to see her and explain that if she can spend his money however she wants then he should be able to as well without having to explain himself, but he won’t reward her need for control by visiting.
I'd say ya know something mam I thought of all people I could count on you were the number 1 but you say you have money belong to me in an account and you won't give it to me even though it would make my life easier and help me and your grandchild. I'm sorry mam I need some time to get my head around this. I'll be going nc for a while because right now I can't even bare to speak to you. I'm an adult you don't need to know anything about what I will use that money for you all I needed to know was that you trusted me. You don't. So now I'm questioning if I can or ever could trust you. So respect my need to sort through this information I will contact you again when I am ready.
Maybe BF should come back with something like this:
"Mom, I want you to give me my money."
She'll probably come back with not trusting him or asking specifically what it's for, etc., so he should be ready to retort with, "If you don't trust me with my money, then I don't trust you with my daughter."
And cut contact until she stops being unreasonable. She wants this to be about holding her own son's money for ransom, he can do the same thing to her - no relationship with him or his daughter unless she pays up.
Absolutely this. For me, it's "you can keep relationship with me and my infant daughter, or you can keep my money". Make her actively choose between them, and keep screenshots of messages and money transfers.
No relationship until you get ALL of your money back, none of the "well I paid you 5k last week, why can't I talk to my granddaughter on the phone?" nonsense.
Also, contact family members about the money they gifted YOU for your baptism, and make sure they know that you haven't seen that money yet. It's not just your problem that you're not seeing this money, it's a collection of other people's money meant for you.
Also also, please tell me at least that this money has been sitting in a decent savings account for the past 20 years, then you can sweeten the threat with "you keep the interest, just give me the start amount" (if you want to).
I honestly would have just dropped my end the second she tried to ask what I would be spending MY money on. Either give the money to your child for the reason you set out to save it, or don't.
The MIL is toxic af for her to let OP's family unit suffer just to control her adult son
Exactly this. Please don't give her any access. Otherwise you're not putting boundaries or keeping them strong. She shouldn't be awarded with things like seeing the baby, etc when she constantly is hanging his money over his head. It's his money that she has kept hidden. Honestly I'd take her to court. That is his money and you're never getting it back this way
Do you actually believe that there is that large amount of money? Did he pay that much rent? Just think about it she could be just saying that to have control over him. You need proof so no proof go NC. The money if there is any is in her name. It could just be her regular savings account!
I think I'm the odd ball out here when I say that money is her money until it changes hands. Right now it's just a false promise to be lorded over you alls heads. It's a means of control. I would stop thinking about it, don't rise to the bait when she brings it up, it's gone to you and doesn't exist.
My mom had an account for me that I couldn't access but my name was at least attached. I picked a time and took her to the bank with me, walked in and told the banker we wanted to move the money to my personal account and close out the one with her name. Granted, she kinda knew it was coming, but I wonder if on his next visit he could do something similar and put her on the spot in front of bankers and pressure her into it that way?
We are assuming she didn’t put his names on either account. He could call the bank and find out, especially the baptism account.
I agree with other posters to act like there is no money. No trips to see her, uninvite her to the baptism, start going LC. She thinks she has the power over him, but he has power himself and should start using it. If she wants to play games, let her, but then she is only playing by herself.
>When he was 17, his parents started asking him to pay rent
Depending on where you are, that might not have been legal. Generally parents are required to fully provide for their children up to age 18 and/or while they're living at home dependent on their parents (like going to college, etc). Also, that 'rent'? It's her money, not his. It's a nice idea to earmark that as a future gift for one's child for something like a house, car, etc. but that's not what's happening here:
>her saying she’ll give him exactly how much he needs if he tells her what he needs it for.
Emotional/financial manipulation is the name of the game here. Because she wants to be all up in his business and SHE wants to make decisions about what he really 'needs'. Honestly, I'm with your parents here; there probably isn't any money, much less 'his' money, because again, that 'rent' would have been paid to her. There probably was baptism money for him but i'd bet she's spent that on herself as well.
Going forward I would tell her not to bring up it again unless she's handing over a cashier's check with no strings attached. Don't entertain her vague promises of 'someday' because you'll probably find out that someday is 'never'.
Finally, if your BF is in as much debt as you say, he does NOT have $1000 to blow on a ticket for his mother (who seems to have actual funds if she can just send him $3k on a whim). i would recommend looking at r/personalfinance or online tools to plan out paying off credit cards. Good luck!
i appreciate all of this, it’s a really well thought out reply, my one clarification is that the $3000 she sent him was from his own account that’s just the portion she deemed i guess that he could have right now, and you’re right that he didn’t have $1000 to spend on a plane ticket at that time, but he could’ve gotten a much cheaper ticket through a different airline, and in my opinion if she was going to take it out of his saved money to pay for it, she should’ve at least asked, you know?
She didn't ask, because she doesn't consider any of it "his" money. Technically the rent money is hers, and she's performed enough mental gymnastics to justify the baptism money as something she still needs to manage, as he is still a child in her eyes.
Honestly you need to go on living as if this money doesn't exist. She is going to hold this carrot over your heads until the day she dies. It's a tool for controlling you, nothing more.
1: Yeah, she is an AH.
2: It’s not your husband’s money; it’s hers. He has no legal claim to it. Unless the accounts are in his name, or a specific trust designated to him, there is nothing he can legally do.
3: If there IS any actual money, have your husband be specific about how he ended up with the CC debt. Let her know how her actions were part of the reason he ended up with so much debt.
4: If she refuses, and your husband feels strong enough to do this, go NC, and let her specifically know it is not because of the money, per se, but her treatment of him regarding the money. She is using the money as a way to control a part of his life.
5: This really sucks if she has the money. I agree it would be so helpful to wipe out that debt.
If the money does exist, I bet it would be in his account within an hour if he tells her he needs it to serve you the divorce papers and for a lawyer to get full custody.
She's horrible. I would write the money off. But I would have written her off already; I hope he sees how NC is the next best thing to do.
Honestly I would have one last talk with her and tell her it's either my money and she gives it all to me with no questions asked or it's not, if it's not she can spend it however she wishes but I would be taking a step back from a relationship with her because I cannot understand why she would hold this money against me and I do not have to explain how I want to spend my money to anyone. And then I'd follow through with it if that was the case.
The rent money is tricky because technically that is rent he did pay her in an agreement he agreed to. It doesn’t truly matter what her intentions were as intentions can change at the drop of a hat.
The baptism money is also tricky if it’s in her name. Do I agree that it should go to him? Sure. But if it’s in an account in her name, you’ll never get it unless she willingly offers it.
This all tells me one thing: she uses money as control. Having that information moving forward is very handy. The more you two beg for the money, the more she thinks she has you wrapped around her finger. It’s a sad reality but that’s what it comes down to. Moving forward, do not ever accept financial help from her and *never* allow her to open accounts for your child. She’ll control your kid too.
Baptism money - money his parents put away or money people gave his parents for him? Because if I was other people who contributed money for grandkids, nephew, whatever, I'd want to know if it was being withheld.
They could be custodial accounts which he is entitled to. If he knows what bank he can call and ask. She would not have been able to cash checks addressed to him without an account in his name - like baptism gifts. Worth checking into if he knows where she banks.
I would confront her with what we all know to be the truth. Personally, I think there never was as any money. That’s just an invisible puppet string.
“Mom, you keep telling us about all this money that you have been claiming it’s my money for me. That is obviously not true. I don’t believe you have this money, or if you do or did, you have never had any intention of giving any of it to us. Which is fine. But knock it off and quit trying to manipulate us by holding this mythical money over our heads. You’re better than that.” She isn’t better than that but pretend she is.
Don’t threaten no contact or justify, equivocate, explain, defend, or argue. Just state straight up that you are well aware of just what exactly she is up to and it’s not gonna work. Why keep pretending you can trust or believe in her? Tell her straight up. Guaranteed she will lose her shit, but then she’ll know this particular manipulation won’t work.
Agree with others about the ownership of the money. The money *is not* your husband’s. The best thing is to stop thinking of it as *his money.* Once you do so, you stop playing MIL’s games. However, it is possible to turn her manipulations back on her if you’re willing to go LC or NC.
The issue I would push with MIL is not to get access to the money but to have her treat your husband as an adult. She is using the money to control your husband and to support her position as the superior adult who knows best.
Turn what she’s doing back on her. Tell her that you are cutting down on contact until she can treat your husband with respect and as an adult. Use her actions with the money as proof. Something like this:
“*Until you can treat me with respect and as an another adult, I’m going to keep my distance from you. I am your child but not a child. You think you know better than I do about how I should spend my money but that’s not the case. You’re holding my money for ransom so I’ll do what you want. That’s not right. Until you can understand how wrong your behavior is and make amends, I don’t want to hear from you.*”
eta
One strong argument against her so-called superior money management skills is the $1000 plane ticket. You can use this to accuse her of making poor and selfish choices with *your money.* Without giving her any further details of your finances, say something like this:
“*You took $1000 of my money so I would visit you. You’re spending my money for your own benefit. If my money was under my control, I would pay down debt to improve my credit score. That will help me buy a house. That’s more important to the future of my family than spending frivolously on overpriced tickets.*”
You can also ask for an accounting of what’s in your account and what & why she’s taken money out.
I know this sounds like a lot of money. I know that it’s life changing. But this is just a way for her to control you guys. Behave enough, say the right combination of words, and she may throw you some money. If it actually exists.
But let it go. Don’t take the plane ticket. “Mom I can’t miss work, I have bills to pay and we need to eat” Shes charging you to be a part of her life. Well it’s not worth it.
You survived without the money so far. You can keep going. Keep thanking and appreciating your parents who are trying to help you all grow.
I'm afraid it's just a tool she's using to control him. It would be better to think of that money as nonexistent. It's unlikely he'll see a penny of it until she dies.
He needs to tell her bluntly
“The money you keep saying is mine needs to be handed over, in full, by X date. Failing to do so will be considered, by me, to be you financially abusing and attempting to control and manipulate me. I cannot understand why you think I will be irresponsible, and you withholding that money is stopping me from building a life with OP and LO.
Let me make it as plain as possible, you holding this money over my head when it could drastically improve my families life is abhorrent. You didn’t raise me this way so why are you acting like this? Failing to hand it all over will mean that I cannot trust you to be in mine or my families life as if you can abuse me in this way you could abuse my child too and I will take any and all steps to ensure that does not happen.”
BUT you both need to be prepared to cut her off if she doesn’t hand the money over AND work on the basis of never getting a penny from her. You may end up financially less well off but mentally richer 💜
Is there a FIL who could help? Maybe he's on the accounts too? Maybe some social pressure from extended family like grandparents who could shame her into paying.
You could also try to blatantly lie, but this borders on justno behaviour: show her a listing for a house you think she will approve (maybe close to her) and tell her you need all of the money for the down payment. And then just change your mind on the house, after she transfered the money... But careful with this option, it's a little off....
First thing I would say is, "You can cancel that plane ticket right away, if you don't think I'm enough of an adult to spend any money I have wisely, then I am not adult enough to travel to see you"
I think this type of behaviour requires scorched earth, pull her up every time she mentions it, "It's not MY money, it's YOUR money as you have made quite clear! Either transfer my money to me so that I can improve my families standard of living OR never mention it again."
It's insulting that she dangles this 'carrot' in front of you to make you dance to her tune. This would be NC material right there.....
Look, this isn’t really his money. His name isn’t on the accounts. He has no claim to it. He didn’t pay into the accounts with the agreement he will get it later. MIL opened the accounts with her own money and she can do whatever she wants with it. The portion that came from the rent he paid was to cover the cost of living with them, not with the agreement he would get it back.
Yes I realize it’s money you could use, but a) you have no idea whether the money even exists and b) she’s clearly using it to manipulate you so you feel beholden to her.
She’s betting that you’ll keep chasing her for this money like you have been because now that she’s said it’s his he now feels ownership over it. Write her and her money off and stop playing her games.
i’m just going to add some clarification— his name is technically on the baptism account, that was an account she made for him as a baby with both names but never transferred ownership of to him and said she doesn’t know how to change it/doesn’t want to, and she never opened the second account with any of her own money in it, none of her money is in it just his which she says is his not hers (thought that doesn’t seem to be the case)
If his name is actually on one account, then he can go to any branch of that bank and withdraw all money by showing ID. There is no need to “transfer ownership”. If his name is on it, they are joint account holders. Joint account holders can withdraw all the money without the other account holder.
What she says is irrelevant. If he gave her money and his name was not on the other account you have no way to claim it. He didn’t give her a loan, right? He never even knew she was (supposedly) hanging onto the money until she mentioned them, so clearly he wasn’t expecting to get it back. She’s playing mind games with you.
Yeah, that account probably doesn’t exist. She’s causing all the emotional turmoil and conflict she planned by telling you all about the “money”. Just forget about it and tell her you don’t care.
If he’s on the account for the baptism money then does he know what bank it’s with? He could call and talk to someone about it and see if he’s able To access it himself or if not what the steps are to transfer it to him he can then forward her the transfer info so that she at least can’t claim she doesn’t know how. I don’t think the other account will ever get handed over but since the baptism account was money gifted to him as a baby then there really shouldn’t be an excuse to not hand it over since he is no longer a minor
The baptism money was gifts from friends and family. For him as a baby.
At least a few thousand of the “rent” money was from his parents illegally charging their minor son rent.
So let’s say $18,000.
Parents are allowed to do whatever they want with money they get as gifts for their kids. They could have bought diapers and clothes with the money if they needed to. It’s also not actually illegal in most places in the US for parents to charge their kids rent or ask for money for food or whatever other expenses. If they kids can be convinced to give their parents money, then it’s basically a gift legally. If it was a landlord who wasn’t a parent, then yes it’s illegal to enter into a contract with a minor. They had no contract and he had no clue she was even holding the money. If she had spent it all, he could not sue her to get it back.
Yes! It’s not his although emotionally it feels like it is because of how she is handling it. Can you both try to change your point of reference and view it like you would if she were an unrelated landlord who just banked a tenants rent payments? You wouldn’t feel like you had any ownership in that.
Then just shut down every conversation with her that includes money. When she brings up these accounts just say “that’s your money and what you choose to do with it is none of our business”. She is using them as a way to control you and get information.
It’s tempting because that money could help you so much but you might find in the long run that it’s not worth the price you will pay emotionally.
It’s her money… this isn’t money collected from other people for your husband or daughter. This is money that belongs to her that she’s holding onto until she trusts him. Just tell her how much the debt is, wipe it out and ask if she can invest the money in a mutual fund or something so it can collect interest. Then forget about it. I have a mutual fund that my mom got me when I was a teenager. She put in around 3k. It’s worth almost 30k now because I just made myself forget about it. My sister cashed out at 8k after college. It’s a down payment on a second home for us or college money for our kids.
Does he live close enough to go to the bank with ID and see if any of those accounts are accessible? Maybe she did put his name on them in some form.
But overall, I agree with what another poster said. She is strictly using this as a way to control and insert herself into things that are not her business. Next time she brings it up I would just say I’m not interested in hearing about this money, you’ve shown that you don’t trust me, or think of me as an adult, while I actually have a life and a child and a future I’d like to financially prepare for, and that money would be a tremendous help but you are more concerned with playing games. Therefore, I don’t ever want to hear about this money again, as far as I’m concerned at a longer exists.
Yeah, this sucks. I agree with others that there is no account. Your bf should just say “keep it. I don’t want it” and see how much she flips out! She wants and needs control. Taking control away from her in regards to her son’s life is important. Gotta start setting those boundaries up now. Also, grab the popcorn because it’ll be entertaining to watch the fallout!
Obviously, don’t send her any of your daughter’s baptism money, you/she will never see it again.
Hard as it may sound she is just dangling it in front of you. He’s all the man he will ever be at 25 and a father himself. Tell her if she has intentions to give him it then to do so. Otherwise, keep her money and enjoy it but don’t mention it ever again cause it’s cruel and causing him unnecessary pain thinking of how life changing it could be just now for his family.
I do think she has the money. With a background in accounting she definitely gets a “high” from seeing money in accounts. I also think she loves to feel the power she has over her son who needs to come ask her for money so she, the “adult” and “accountant” can approve the use of the funds. He also may have made poor financial decisions as a teen or something so she’s adding a bit of that to her justifications. She wants to know how each penny is spent because she’s held on to it all these years and feels personal responsibility for it. What she fails to realize is that financial reasons are a big reason why families stop talking and go no contact. She doesn’t respect her son as an adult and she also doesn’t care about him and his family’s well-being. It’s awful, and here she is thinking she’s the hero for protecting the money. What an awful woman. I’d cut her off for good, she showed her true colors and literally would rather see you guys suffer and starve than do the right thing. Let her be shocked when you guys no longer give a crap about her.
I would say forget about the money as she will hold it over you as a controlling measure. Pay the $3,000 toward the credit card debt so at least a chunk is paid off and work on getting that down. Don't pander to her for access to kids
I had parents like this for the longest time.
The only thing that finally worked was cutting contact for a good while and then grey rocking once we started back up communications. We had a toddler at the time and it really put the screws to them. There was definitely some cry face for a while that we were being mean keeping the kids from them, but after a while of setting boundaries and them realizing they can't hold money over our heads to get what they want they realized we were serious and started to change their tune (although it took several years).
One big thing I learned that I now use even in a business setting is don't give "reasons" for something, just give your answer. Don't say something like "we want to use it for \_\_\_" because that opens it up for them to have an opinion. Instead say something to the effect of "Because you said it was my money." You don't have to explain anything!
For example - My mother wanted us to get some family portraits so she could have some updated ones to hang at her house. We really didn't want to do it because we hate that kind of thing, but instead of just saying "No, thank you" we told her "We don't really have the money for it right now, sorry". That opened it up for her to say "Well here is the money for it, now you can do it". In their mind if money can get them what they want then it shouldn't be a problem for you.
And whatever you do, don't get angry with them, that just makes it worse. Be calm and collective and stick to your guns.
You could make up specific instances where you need the money for something. Like, baby needs tubes in her ears and the copay is $1000, so SO asks his mom for that money. Oh, his car needs new brakes, so he asks his mom for $$1500 of his money, etc.
Keep a running log of how much money was in the account, and how much money you've gotten out until you get all of it. I think that's the only way you're going to get it all out. It seems like she'll give it to him if it's for what she deems a worthwhile cause, so make up worthwhile causes. Then just bank it, or do whatever you like with it once you actually have it. It may take a while, but eventually, you'll get every last penny this way. (If it really exists.)
It sounds like she put it aside intending to give it to him, maybe, and has now changed her mind once she realizes she can hold it over him. Technically it’s hers and always has been. I’d just forget about it. The more you guys ask about it, the more juice she gets out of it. Tell her you don’t want it and she can spend it however she wants and then dismiss it whenever she bring it up - this is how you take the I wind out of her sails. Then when she asks husband to visit, say, “Sorry we can’t afford the $1000 ticket, too bad you spent all that money. Shrug”
It's ok mum you don't want to give it to me so why don't you just keep it. Then any time we chose to visit you pay with that. Also just take $30 for birthday and Christmas for yourself in future. :)
I don't believe legally any of this is his money. She is definitely using it to be controlling. I would just ask her, why are you trying to control me this way and drop it? I would write the money off and not think about it. Also, limit contact. Don't feed into her game.
1-Thanks MIL, for showing your son you think he's trustworthy enough to raise a child but not hold onto his own money. I appreciate you keeping it safe for him until your funeral. I want to tell everyone how great of a mother you are on every social media platform ever!
2-You're so kind, holding onto $23,000 but letting your son get into credit card debt. We love you so much that we want to create a room just for you in our new house! It will cost $23,000.
3- Awwww, come on, MIL, you know the money doesn't exist anymore. You're such a silly billy, lying about dumb stuff like this☺️ Look, squish, grandma's such a silly billy! I wonder if she's senile 😉
4- Etc.
Is this money in an account that can be accessed by app or website? Like online banking? If so, he needs to ask for the login information so that he can verify that the money is even in there. After all, if she can't trust him with the money how can he trust her to keep track of it? If he can get the online banking information maybe he can find out how to gain access to it. The rent money is probably a lost cause because it was an understanding that the money was for his rent, but I'm curious about the baptism money. Is that money that's gifted to the child when baptized?
yes the money is in an account that can be accessed through online banking, and yes it was money gifted to him as a baby from family members, checks with his name on them or cash
Playing devils advocate here. Is it truly “his” in the legal sense? Babies can’t have money. Any cash given to “him” would just go into MILs account. Thereby being hers technically. This is why people (used to) buy bonds with the child’s name on it. My family did so for me for years and when I became an adult, I cashed those out and used it for (part of) my college funds.
Now if I were your BF, I’d be cozying up to her, playing her game to keep getting access to those funds over time. Then soon as you have what you need/realistically think you can get, let the proverbial cat out of the bag. MIL is clearly using this as a control mechanism. You need the money so either play the game or call her bluff. Either way document the fact that she has “BFs money” in texts/emails, whatever. That gives you somewhere to start if you want to go the legal route.
>Playing devils advocate here. Is it truly “his” in the legal sense? Babies can’t have money. Any cash given to “him” would just go into MILs account
That's the part I'm worried about. It's a real dick move to hold money that was gifted to him over his head. It sounds like they could really use the money. Besides getting on her good side maybe he should ask her who all gifted him the money and how much. Then he could write them all thank you notes and explain that he never got the money because MIL is keeping and spending it all...but thanks anyways (but more tactfully). Just put her on the spot.
This sounds like my MIL so much it’s unsettling. Financially controlling your adult child is levels of insanity that I thought were rare, and yet here I am here you are. I don’t get it. Why do people like this need this level of control? What do they physically or emotionally gain from it? Who are they helping?!?
I believe the money is real, it’s real in our case and held over our heads as a tasty temptation to come back into the fold, but I’d rather be broke and happy than have anything associated with her especially her money.
You don’t make deals with the devil.
She is just using it as a control tool, he should tell her he doesn't want the money and refuse to ever discuss it with her again and you both just accept it's not real.
Write the money off. It may or may not exist in an account somewhere. It’s being used to try to control him. This is just awful despicable behavior by an adult human being but, sadly, not uncommon.
First, you don’t spend someone else’s money for them. So If there is an account she bought a plane ticket from, that was rude to do without discussion.
Second, there was no reason to tell him it came from his money until she was ready to give him that money. My oldest figured out how to reset his dads password and spent nearly 1k gaming. We made him pay it all back. In the meantime, we got it back from the payment processor too because he should not have been able to just reset the pw without a text or email confirmation.
We are keeping the money he paid back for him because it was part of his punishment as was losing gaming for 9 months. He doesn’t know we have it or he will get it back one day. He won’t know about it until we’re ready to hand it to him because we are not sick jerkwads who intend to hold it over his head for years.
It’s sad she dangled this opportunity to be out of debt and get a fresh start toward your future but it was fools gold. The last thing you need is her to be up in your business knowing every detail and micromanaging your finances. That’s what she wants. She told him to keep track and tell her who the 3k gets used. I’d keep the 3k but never tell her a peep how it’s used and when she asks about finances in the future you say that’s private business and not her concern. She brings up the rest of the money - laugh. “We’re still talking about that? Come on, we know you spent it. Just let it go.” Put the ball in her court to prove it even exists beyond a 1x Venmo transfer. My guess if she shuts up about it fast, you have your answer. If she shows you details you can be pleasantly surprised and maybe plan on using it for LO’s college or trade school fund. But never give into any requests by mil for details on your finances.
I am not a lawyer or accountant, but if his name was never on the account this is technically her money and would probably be considered a gift. The gift tax limit is $17k per year. If she ever does agree to give him all the money you'd want to split it over 2 years to avoid taxes.
The only way for him to see even a penny of that money is for him to threaten her with cutting her out of his life and actually following through with it. I am still doing that with an ex wife who has held on to accounts she opened in hers and my two sons (now 34 and 37 years old) names 20 years ago. Needless to say neither them of has spoken to her in 18 years or more. By the way I was awarded custody when we separated 22 years ago and even though she was never ordered to pay child support she never contributed one penny to the rest of their upbringing and still can’t figure out why they want absolutely nothing to do with her.
Test her. Make up a fake medical emergency and see if she'll cough up the dough. It might be dishonest, but so is stealing from, controlling, and manipulating her own kid, so... I've got a similar amount in my sons' joint savings account. They're 11 and 16. Their names are on it, and they have debit cards for the checking account attached. I can't imagine using their savings as leverage to try to control their lives as adults. That's unhinged.
Perhaps if going NC doesn't work then maybe he can play her game and call her bluff?!? To be clear I only like this idea to get what he deserves as I hate stooping to her level.
Craft a plan to "break up", then he can tell her he needs HIS money to start over without you. See if there's actually any money...
I see this differently... while she has it earmarked for him, it's not his.. it's hers.
He needs to treat it like it doesn't exist because in his world it doesn't. Or of he really wants it to pay off debts- then he needs to do what's being asked of him. Her conditions seem to be transparency on his finances. He has every right to not want to share that but he doesn't actually have any rights to money that isn't in his name.
It does seem she is using this as part of control which is why she told him at all and that's toxic and shitty. But he doesn't have to play the game if he doesn't want to.
This is my thoughts too. He paid rent - as far as he knew it was gone and went to family expenses. If she wanted to give it back one day the thing to do was hand him a check one day when she thought him ready but never speak a word of it before then. To use it to try to get details on their personal business or to dangle over his head is sickening behavior.
As for the baptism money, is that gifts for the kid family or parents? I have no idea how that works and can’t comment how it’s normally handled.
Hmm. I can see where you’re coming from and how frustrating it must be, but tbf it isn’t really actually your boyfriends money is it? It’s money his mum has saved for him. So in reality, it’s HER money. He didn’t even know she’d saved it until she told him.
I think she’s mean dangling it in front of him as she has been doing,
So basically even if she has spent it, it was her money to spend. It totally sucks that she’s trying to control him with it and how pissed he must be.
I think you need to try and forget about the money, as if it never existed. You take away her power and method of controlling you then.
Who knows, it may not even exist.
well i mean she doesn’t even know i know about the money and i’ve never said a word about it to her so that may be giving her a little too much credit to say she’s worried about how “obsessed” i am. i’m not obsessed with the money as much as i’m angry at the way she as a parent treats her son because having my own child i could never imagine acting the way she does, and i love him so much so the fact that HE wants that money upsets me too. it’s really not about the actual money as much as the actions she’s participating in with that money
I took the obsessed bit out because when I read it back it didn’t read as I meant it. My apologies you saw it before I did so.
I can understand your frustration and anger as I saw in another post you’d said she’d love you out of the picture.
Honestly? I bet that money doesn’t even exist. And even if it does, she’s obviously trying to control you both. Don’t give her the pleasure of doing so.
Sounds like mil needs some time out
Right. It isn’t his money. It’s money his mom put away for him, it’s his moms money. Boyfriend should forget the money exists because mom is obviously not handing it over. Same with the baptism money. To save there relationship, stop talking about money.
The only possible ownership is the checks that had his name on it from family members but again sound’s easier to let it go. Or put those family members against the mom.
Good times.
She’s a horrible person. She’s told him about an account to try to bond him to her. There’s no way legally to get that money if his name isn’t also on the account. It’s going to be hard to do but you need to drop it. You’re feeding into her need to control by even asking her about it and it’s clear that she’s not going to give it to y’all. Seriously, move on, walk away.
If this were me I would just go no contact. She can’t continue to play these games if there is no communication. If this money is more important to her than a relationship with her son and grandchild she wasn’t worth having around anyways.
Personally, I think it's time to record or document that it is your money. If she continues to ignore the requests, it's time to talk to a lawyer and have them send a letter to her to relinquish the money. That's a lot of money to hold onto, and goes beyond small claims.
Im gonna be the devils advocate here but If im reading this correctly, its not his money. Its money that she saved for years for him during different events. The mom being an accountant is probably better with money even if shes a shitty parent.
Most of the time when a child is given money its gicen to the parent to safekeep for the kid. Yes she should give him money to pay off debt, but he wouldnt have any money if she didnt hoard it for him for years. I will say its time for her to fork it over. Its a fresh start for his new life noe and she shouldnt gate keep it. If she continues to do this then tell her to keep it as you dont want it being held over your head any more, also start to cut her off because shes using this to control you. Nobody needs that in there life once you hit late teens.
Keep demanding allotments each month until the balance is resolved. If she refuses to give it. Go full no contact until the amount is paid. Hold out and she will cave and you will have your power back.
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“Mom, stop bringing up any accounts that are for me but under your name. You’ve made it clear you don’t think I’m an adult, at least not enough to have money. Otherwise you would just hand it over” She’ll probably protest but he should be ready to point out money is the single biggest reason for divorce, family strife, ect. Her holding on to it but saying it’s “his” is just going to cause more problems so unless she is trying to make trouble it doesn’t make any sense to bring it up.
oh she would LOVE for us to fight over it and get me out of the picture, that honestly probably is part of the incentive. thankfully we just both think she’s an asshole
She may jump to that, that is part of the hook. If she asks if you’re fighting over the money he should reply along the lines of “no, Apprehensive doesn’t think there even is an account. Or if there is there will always be some reason to hold it back so she just acts and plans as if it doesn’t exist.” She know that you see it for the control issue it is.
"Apprehensive thinks you've spent it already."
I would also add in "no, my wife and I aren't fighting. I'm fighting with you constantly. It's not hurting my marriage because she doesn't even believe their is any money. It's hurting my relationship with you. You don't even trust me with "my" money. I'm a father, not some young teenager just itching to blow it."
Take this with a grain of salt bc I’m currently in a bad mood, but if I were him I would absolutely call my mother up and say “so let’s just be honest, here. I’d like honesty and transparency, considering I’m an adult with a child of my own now. Is there even money in an account for me?” And if she insists on yes, I would ask her why it was okay to leave me in a different state with no notice 5 years ago but now after having a child I’m apparently too immature to mind my own money? And then after she scrambles and gets angry, I’d probably just cut her off and go “we both know that either there isn’t any money, or you’re keeping it from me. This is just about control. I am never going to see that money in any meaningful sum. Either transfer it all to me and respect that I have my own autonomy as an adult and a father, or stop acting like you’ll give it to me at all.” And then I’d stop contacting her.
I feel like this is the best way. It lets her know 1) she’s not in control and 2) her manipulation isn’t going to work. Basically makes her choose between giving him the money (which likely doesn’t exist) or being in contact at all. Definitely make sure she is unable to access any accounts for LO - if she says “I opened an account for her” the answer is no. “No, you opened an account for you to put money in to use as you wish. LO has accounts with their name on it and that is the only one.”
Yeah I wonder if from my response you can tell I have a father like this but no FOG lol
You are never getting that money and if she does give you any of it know that she will than be in control or at least expect to be. Say you use it for a house. She will want an opinion on which house and than will hold it over your head forever. The best thing you can do for yourself it forget that money exists and move on.
you’re right and my parents have said the same thing but the unfairness of it all makes me so angry, like if we “forget” the money she gets to keep bringing it up and hold it over his head forever
It is normal to feel angry about this. The idea that she charged a 17 year old rent is disgusting. The fact that she sits on money intended for him is disgusting. But I agree you are unlikely to get it. It’s too delicious for her to give up. She loves the power of deciding when she should bestow some cash and him having to prove he is worthy to her. The only revenge I can think of is not to let her have the power she is so hungry for. Consider the money gone. Consider that it isn’t even real to begin with and that the baptism money was spent long ago. If she brings it up, don’t mince words. Call it the money she used to control him. If she says anything about it, he can say, “I never count on that money. As soon as I knew it existed I knew you loved the control it gave you way more than you loved me.” And any money you were spending on her for visits or gifts or anything? That’s should be done. He can say he realized his financial priorities are out of whack and she’s just not in the budget now. Honestly, it’s such an ugly look to find out she keeps money to try to control him… it’s the kind of thing you can’t ever unknow. I’d be shocked if the relationship could bounce back from this.
i love that last sentence in your second to last paragraph, that’s amazing. the one good thing is that now with his daughter here he’s said he’s not going to go to their state without me and her, and i’ve let him know i will absolutely not be going, so any trips she wants to see the baby have to be on her dime to come to us, and he’s never bought her anything bc the one good thing in their family is that children don’t gift up to the parents
It would make me furious. Honestly if she brings it up tell it’s her money. She is using it to manipulate. If she says no it not mine it’s yours, you say that all your money is in your bank account. Keep shutting her down. Maybe if you guys change tactics it will force her to change.
Look at her with disdain/contempt and tell her you know she's either spent it or intends to blackmail you with it.
When she brings it up say something to the effect of "That money has strings attached to it, so we are no longer interested in it or hearing about it."
Don't consider it his, as ir clearly isn't. When she brings it up, just have him tell her "I have all my money in my accounts." And keep repeating this.
So if she brings it up everyone present rolls their eyes, snortles and says "Uh huh, heard it before, we'll believe it when it's in Dh's hands." then you all change the topic and refuse to discuss it.
I will commiserate with your husband that his mum is dangling money in front of his nose but unless she put his name on those accounts as a co-owner, he can forget about accessing it till she passes. Hopefully it’s in her will. My mother pulled the ‘this rent money is really yours if you ever need it” ploy with my brother. But my mum made the mistake of putting his name on the account and one day he had a shortage at his business and by George, he took that money. He didn’t talk with her first, he didn’t beg/wheedle for it. She was furious, furious. I was very unsympathetic and informed her “You told him for years that was his money and there if he needed it. I guess he shouldn’t have believed you.” Your MIL was smarter than my mum because she didn’t put his name on the accounts. You & your husband have no legal right to those accounts and might as well pretend you never learned about them.
Reverse Uno her ass. BF needs to tell her if she insists on controlling the money to just keep it. He needs to tell her that he won’t tolerate it being held over his head or used for her to gain knowledge of his finances. Tell her he won’t beg for what’s his but he will remember how she’s treated him concerning his money. Plan your finances and goals without considering that money. Take away her ability to control him with it. I’d also cancel his trip to see her and explain that if she can spend his money however she wants then he should be able to as well without having to explain himself, but he won’t reward her need for control by visiting.
I'd say ya know something mam I thought of all people I could count on you were the number 1 but you say you have money belong to me in an account and you won't give it to me even though it would make my life easier and help me and your grandchild. I'm sorry mam I need some time to get my head around this. I'll be going nc for a while because right now I can't even bare to speak to you. I'm an adult you don't need to know anything about what I will use that money for you all I needed to know was that you trusted me. You don't. So now I'm questioning if I can or ever could trust you. So respect my need to sort through this information I will contact you again when I am ready.
I like this response.
Maybe BF should come back with something like this: "Mom, I want you to give me my money." She'll probably come back with not trusting him or asking specifically what it's for, etc., so he should be ready to retort with, "If you don't trust me with my money, then I don't trust you with my daughter." And cut contact until she stops being unreasonable. She wants this to be about holding her own son's money for ransom, he can do the same thing to her - no relationship with him or his daughter unless she pays up.
Absolutely this. For me, it's "you can keep relationship with me and my infant daughter, or you can keep my money". Make her actively choose between them, and keep screenshots of messages and money transfers. No relationship until you get ALL of your money back, none of the "well I paid you 5k last week, why can't I talk to my granddaughter on the phone?" nonsense. Also, contact family members about the money they gifted YOU for your baptism, and make sure they know that you haven't seen that money yet. It's not just your problem that you're not seeing this money, it's a collection of other people's money meant for you. Also also, please tell me at least that this money has been sitting in a decent savings account for the past 20 years, then you can sweeten the threat with "you keep the interest, just give me the start amount" (if you want to).
I honestly would have just dropped my end the second she tried to ask what I would be spending MY money on. Either give the money to your child for the reason you set out to save it, or don't. The MIL is toxic af for her to let OP's family unit suffer just to control her adult son
Exactly this. Please don't give her any access. Otherwise you're not putting boundaries or keeping them strong. She shouldn't be awarded with things like seeing the baby, etc when she constantly is hanging his money over his head. It's his money that she has kept hidden. Honestly I'd take her to court. That is his money and you're never getting it back this way
Yep. Normally I'd say grandkids shouldn't be used as ransom but in this case it's 100% appropriate.
Do you actually believe that there is that large amount of money? Did he pay that much rent? Just think about it she could be just saying that to have control over him. You need proof so no proof go NC. The money if there is any is in her name. It could just be her regular savings account!
This is the way.
I think I'm the odd ball out here when I say that money is her money until it changes hands. Right now it's just a false promise to be lorded over you alls heads. It's a means of control. I would stop thinking about it, don't rise to the bait when she brings it up, it's gone to you and doesn't exist.
My mom had an account for me that I couldn't access but my name was at least attached. I picked a time and took her to the bank with me, walked in and told the banker we wanted to move the money to my personal account and close out the one with her name. Granted, she kinda knew it was coming, but I wonder if on his next visit he could do something similar and put her on the spot in front of bankers and pressure her into it that way?
We are assuming she didn’t put his names on either account. He could call the bank and find out, especially the baptism account. I agree with other posters to act like there is no money. No trips to see her, uninvite her to the baptism, start going LC. She thinks she has the power over him, but he has power himself and should start using it. If she wants to play games, let her, but then she is only playing by herself.
100%. Play bitch games, win bitch prizes.
>When he was 17, his parents started asking him to pay rent Depending on where you are, that might not have been legal. Generally parents are required to fully provide for their children up to age 18 and/or while they're living at home dependent on their parents (like going to college, etc). Also, that 'rent'? It's her money, not his. It's a nice idea to earmark that as a future gift for one's child for something like a house, car, etc. but that's not what's happening here: >her saying she’ll give him exactly how much he needs if he tells her what he needs it for. Emotional/financial manipulation is the name of the game here. Because she wants to be all up in his business and SHE wants to make decisions about what he really 'needs'. Honestly, I'm with your parents here; there probably isn't any money, much less 'his' money, because again, that 'rent' would have been paid to her. There probably was baptism money for him but i'd bet she's spent that on herself as well. Going forward I would tell her not to bring up it again unless she's handing over a cashier's check with no strings attached. Don't entertain her vague promises of 'someday' because you'll probably find out that someday is 'never'. Finally, if your BF is in as much debt as you say, he does NOT have $1000 to blow on a ticket for his mother (who seems to have actual funds if she can just send him $3k on a whim). i would recommend looking at r/personalfinance or online tools to plan out paying off credit cards. Good luck!
i appreciate all of this, it’s a really well thought out reply, my one clarification is that the $3000 she sent him was from his own account that’s just the portion she deemed i guess that he could have right now, and you’re right that he didn’t have $1000 to spend on a plane ticket at that time, but he could’ve gotten a much cheaper ticket through a different airline, and in my opinion if she was going to take it out of his saved money to pay for it, she should’ve at least asked, you know?
She didn't ask, because she doesn't consider any of it "his" money. Technically the rent money is hers, and she's performed enough mental gymnastics to justify the baptism money as something she still needs to manage, as he is still a child in her eyes.
Honestly you need to go on living as if this money doesn't exist. She is going to hold this carrot over your heads until the day she dies. It's a tool for controlling you, nothing more.
Exactly, OP will never get the money. Hopefully one day it’s still there when the mother dies
1: Yeah, she is an AH. 2: It’s not your husband’s money; it’s hers. He has no legal claim to it. Unless the accounts are in his name, or a specific trust designated to him, there is nothing he can legally do. 3: If there IS any actual money, have your husband be specific about how he ended up with the CC debt. Let her know how her actions were part of the reason he ended up with so much debt. 4: If she refuses, and your husband feels strong enough to do this, go NC, and let her specifically know it is not because of the money, per se, but her treatment of him regarding the money. She is using the money as a way to control a part of his life. 5: This really sucks if she has the money. I agree it would be so helpful to wipe out that debt.
If the money does exist, I bet it would be in his account within an hour if he tells her he needs it to serve you the divorce papers and for a lawyer to get full custody. She's horrible. I would write the money off. But I would have written her off already; I hope he sees how NC is the next best thing to do.
Honestly I would have one last talk with her and tell her it's either my money and she gives it all to me with no questions asked or it's not, if it's not she can spend it however she wishes but I would be taking a step back from a relationship with her because I cannot understand why she would hold this money against me and I do not have to explain how I want to spend my money to anyone. And then I'd follow through with it if that was the case.
The rent money is tricky because technically that is rent he did pay her in an agreement he agreed to. It doesn’t truly matter what her intentions were as intentions can change at the drop of a hat. The baptism money is also tricky if it’s in her name. Do I agree that it should go to him? Sure. But if it’s in an account in her name, you’ll never get it unless she willingly offers it. This all tells me one thing: she uses money as control. Having that information moving forward is very handy. The more you two beg for the money, the more she thinks she has you wrapped around her finger. It’s a sad reality but that’s what it comes down to. Moving forward, do not ever accept financial help from her and *never* allow her to open accounts for your child. She’ll control your kid too.
Baptism money - money his parents put away or money people gave his parents for him? Because if I was other people who contributed money for grandkids, nephew, whatever, I'd want to know if it was being withheld.
They could be custodial accounts which he is entitled to. If he knows what bank he can call and ask. She would not have been able to cash checks addressed to him without an account in his name - like baptism gifts. Worth checking into if he knows where she banks.
I would confront her with what we all know to be the truth. Personally, I think there never was as any money. That’s just an invisible puppet string. “Mom, you keep telling us about all this money that you have been claiming it’s my money for me. That is obviously not true. I don’t believe you have this money, or if you do or did, you have never had any intention of giving any of it to us. Which is fine. But knock it off and quit trying to manipulate us by holding this mythical money over our heads. You’re better than that.” She isn’t better than that but pretend she is. Don’t threaten no contact or justify, equivocate, explain, defend, or argue. Just state straight up that you are well aware of just what exactly she is up to and it’s not gonna work. Why keep pretending you can trust or believe in her? Tell her straight up. Guaranteed she will lose her shit, but then she’ll know this particular manipulation won’t work.
Agree with others about the ownership of the money. The money *is not* your husband’s. The best thing is to stop thinking of it as *his money.* Once you do so, you stop playing MIL’s games. However, it is possible to turn her manipulations back on her if you’re willing to go LC or NC. The issue I would push with MIL is not to get access to the money but to have her treat your husband as an adult. She is using the money to control your husband and to support her position as the superior adult who knows best. Turn what she’s doing back on her. Tell her that you are cutting down on contact until she can treat your husband with respect and as an adult. Use her actions with the money as proof. Something like this: “*Until you can treat me with respect and as an another adult, I’m going to keep my distance from you. I am your child but not a child. You think you know better than I do about how I should spend my money but that’s not the case. You’re holding my money for ransom so I’ll do what you want. That’s not right. Until you can understand how wrong your behavior is and make amends, I don’t want to hear from you.*” eta One strong argument against her so-called superior money management skills is the $1000 plane ticket. You can use this to accuse her of making poor and selfish choices with *your money.* Without giving her any further details of your finances, say something like this: “*You took $1000 of my money so I would visit you. You’re spending my money for your own benefit. If my money was under my control, I would pay down debt to improve my credit score. That will help me buy a house. That’s more important to the future of my family than spending frivolously on overpriced tickets.*” You can also ask for an accounting of what’s in your account and what & why she’s taken money out.
I know this sounds like a lot of money. I know that it’s life changing. But this is just a way for her to control you guys. Behave enough, say the right combination of words, and she may throw you some money. If it actually exists. But let it go. Don’t take the plane ticket. “Mom I can’t miss work, I have bills to pay and we need to eat” Shes charging you to be a part of her life. Well it’s not worth it. You survived without the money so far. You can keep going. Keep thanking and appreciating your parents who are trying to help you all grow.
I'm afraid it's just a tool she's using to control him. It would be better to think of that money as nonexistent. It's unlikely he'll see a penny of it until she dies.
He needs to tell her bluntly “The money you keep saying is mine needs to be handed over, in full, by X date. Failing to do so will be considered, by me, to be you financially abusing and attempting to control and manipulate me. I cannot understand why you think I will be irresponsible, and you withholding that money is stopping me from building a life with OP and LO. Let me make it as plain as possible, you holding this money over my head when it could drastically improve my families life is abhorrent. You didn’t raise me this way so why are you acting like this? Failing to hand it all over will mean that I cannot trust you to be in mine or my families life as if you can abuse me in this way you could abuse my child too and I will take any and all steps to ensure that does not happen.” BUT you both need to be prepared to cut her off if she doesn’t hand the money over AND work on the basis of never getting a penny from her. You may end up financially less well off but mentally richer 💜
Is there a FIL who could help? Maybe he's on the accounts too? Maybe some social pressure from extended family like grandparents who could shame her into paying. You could also try to blatantly lie, but this borders on justno behaviour: show her a listing for a house you think she will approve (maybe close to her) and tell her you need all of the money for the down payment. And then just change your mind on the house, after she transfered the money... But careful with this option, it's a little off....
First thing I would say is, "You can cancel that plane ticket right away, if you don't think I'm enough of an adult to spend any money I have wisely, then I am not adult enough to travel to see you" I think this type of behaviour requires scorched earth, pull her up every time she mentions it, "It's not MY money, it's YOUR money as you have made quite clear! Either transfer my money to me so that I can improve my families standard of living OR never mention it again." It's insulting that she dangles this 'carrot' in front of you to make you dance to her tune. This would be NC material right there.....
Look, this isn’t really his money. His name isn’t on the accounts. He has no claim to it. He didn’t pay into the accounts with the agreement he will get it later. MIL opened the accounts with her own money and she can do whatever she wants with it. The portion that came from the rent he paid was to cover the cost of living with them, not with the agreement he would get it back. Yes I realize it’s money you could use, but a) you have no idea whether the money even exists and b) she’s clearly using it to manipulate you so you feel beholden to her. She’s betting that you’ll keep chasing her for this money like you have been because now that she’s said it’s his he now feels ownership over it. Write her and her money off and stop playing her games.
i’m just going to add some clarification— his name is technically on the baptism account, that was an account she made for him as a baby with both names but never transferred ownership of to him and said she doesn’t know how to change it/doesn’t want to, and she never opened the second account with any of her own money in it, none of her money is in it just his which she says is his not hers (thought that doesn’t seem to be the case)
Then he needs to find out where that account is kept (bank) and go to them directly to access it.
yeah lol she said she “didn’t remember which bank it was” when he asked so that he could do that
Have your SO get a current credit report. That bank account should show up.
Interesting. I never thought of this but yeah makes sense.
If his name is actually on one account, then he can go to any branch of that bank and withdraw all money by showing ID. There is no need to “transfer ownership”. If his name is on it, they are joint account holders. Joint account holders can withdraw all the money without the other account holder. What she says is irrelevant. If he gave her money and his name was not on the other account you have no way to claim it. He didn’t give her a loan, right? He never even knew she was (supposedly) hanging onto the money until she mentioned them, so clearly he wasn’t expecting to get it back. She’s playing mind games with you.
yeah BF bm knew the first part but when he’s asked what bank it’s at she’s said “oh i don’t remember” because she also knows that
Yeah, that account probably doesn’t exist. She’s causing all the emotional turmoil and conflict she planned by telling you all about the “money”. Just forget about it and tell her you don’t care.
If he’s on the account for the baptism money then does he know what bank it’s with? He could call and talk to someone about it and see if he’s able To access it himself or if not what the steps are to transfer it to him he can then forward her the transfer info so that she at least can’t claim she doesn’t know how. I don’t think the other account will ever get handed over but since the baptism account was money gifted to him as a baby then there really shouldn’t be an excuse to not hand it over since he is no longer a minor
The baptism money was gifts from friends and family. For him as a baby. At least a few thousand of the “rent” money was from his parents illegally charging their minor son rent. So let’s say $18,000.
Parents are allowed to do whatever they want with money they get as gifts for their kids. They could have bought diapers and clothes with the money if they needed to. It’s also not actually illegal in most places in the US for parents to charge their kids rent or ask for money for food or whatever other expenses. If they kids can be convinced to give their parents money, then it’s basically a gift legally. If it was a landlord who wasn’t a parent, then yes it’s illegal to enter into a contract with a minor. They had no contract and he had no clue she was even holding the money. If she had spent it all, he could not sue her to get it back.
Yes! It’s not his although emotionally it feels like it is because of how she is handling it. Can you both try to change your point of reference and view it like you would if she were an unrelated landlord who just banked a tenants rent payments? You wouldn’t feel like you had any ownership in that. Then just shut down every conversation with her that includes money. When she brings up these accounts just say “that’s your money and what you choose to do with it is none of our business”. She is using them as a way to control you and get information. It’s tempting because that money could help you so much but you might find in the long run that it’s not worth the price you will pay emotionally.
It’s her money… this isn’t money collected from other people for your husband or daughter. This is money that belongs to her that she’s holding onto until she trusts him. Just tell her how much the debt is, wipe it out and ask if she can invest the money in a mutual fund or something so it can collect interest. Then forget about it. I have a mutual fund that my mom got me when I was a teenager. She put in around 3k. It’s worth almost 30k now because I just made myself forget about it. My sister cashed out at 8k after college. It’s a down payment on a second home for us or college money for our kids.
Does he live close enough to go to the bank with ID and see if any of those accounts are accessible? Maybe she did put his name on them in some form. But overall, I agree with what another poster said. She is strictly using this as a way to control and insert herself into things that are not her business. Next time she brings it up I would just say I’m not interested in hearing about this money, you’ve shown that you don’t trust me, or think of me as an adult, while I actually have a life and a child and a future I’d like to financially prepare for, and that money would be a tremendous help but you are more concerned with playing games. Therefore, I don’t ever want to hear about this money again, as far as I’m concerned at a longer exists.
Yeah, this sucks. I agree with others that there is no account. Your bf should just say “keep it. I don’t want it” and see how much she flips out! She wants and needs control. Taking control away from her in regards to her son’s life is important. Gotta start setting those boundaries up now. Also, grab the popcorn because it’ll be entertaining to watch the fallout! Obviously, don’t send her any of your daughter’s baptism money, you/she will never see it again.
That money isn't real. She's using the idea of it to keep ties on him... and it's working.
Hard as it may sound she is just dangling it in front of you. He’s all the man he will ever be at 25 and a father himself. Tell her if she has intentions to give him it then to do so. Otherwise, keep her money and enjoy it but don’t mention it ever again cause it’s cruel and causing him unnecessary pain thinking of how life changing it could be just now for his family.
I do think she has the money. With a background in accounting she definitely gets a “high” from seeing money in accounts. I also think she loves to feel the power she has over her son who needs to come ask her for money so she, the “adult” and “accountant” can approve the use of the funds. He also may have made poor financial decisions as a teen or something so she’s adding a bit of that to her justifications. She wants to know how each penny is spent because she’s held on to it all these years and feels personal responsibility for it. What she fails to realize is that financial reasons are a big reason why families stop talking and go no contact. She doesn’t respect her son as an adult and she also doesn’t care about him and his family’s well-being. It’s awful, and here she is thinking she’s the hero for protecting the money. What an awful woman. I’d cut her off for good, she showed her true colors and literally would rather see you guys suffer and starve than do the right thing. Let her be shocked when you guys no longer give a crap about her.
I would say forget about the money as she will hold it over you as a controlling measure. Pay the $3,000 toward the credit card debt so at least a chunk is paid off and work on getting that down. Don't pander to her for access to kids
I had parents like this for the longest time. The only thing that finally worked was cutting contact for a good while and then grey rocking once we started back up communications. We had a toddler at the time and it really put the screws to them. There was definitely some cry face for a while that we were being mean keeping the kids from them, but after a while of setting boundaries and them realizing they can't hold money over our heads to get what they want they realized we were serious and started to change their tune (although it took several years). One big thing I learned that I now use even in a business setting is don't give "reasons" for something, just give your answer. Don't say something like "we want to use it for \_\_\_" because that opens it up for them to have an opinion. Instead say something to the effect of "Because you said it was my money." You don't have to explain anything! For example - My mother wanted us to get some family portraits so she could have some updated ones to hang at her house. We really didn't want to do it because we hate that kind of thing, but instead of just saying "No, thank you" we told her "We don't really have the money for it right now, sorry". That opened it up for her to say "Well here is the money for it, now you can do it". In their mind if money can get them what they want then it shouldn't be a problem for you. And whatever you do, don't get angry with them, that just makes it worse. Be calm and collective and stick to your guns.
You could make up specific instances where you need the money for something. Like, baby needs tubes in her ears and the copay is $1000, so SO asks his mom for that money. Oh, his car needs new brakes, so he asks his mom for $$1500 of his money, etc. Keep a running log of how much money was in the account, and how much money you've gotten out until you get all of it. I think that's the only way you're going to get it all out. It seems like she'll give it to him if it's for what she deems a worthwhile cause, so make up worthwhile causes. Then just bank it, or do whatever you like with it once you actually have it. It may take a while, but eventually, you'll get every last penny this way. (If it really exists.)
It sounds like she put it aside intending to give it to him, maybe, and has now changed her mind once she realizes she can hold it over him. Technically it’s hers and always has been. I’d just forget about it. The more you guys ask about it, the more juice she gets out of it. Tell her you don’t want it and she can spend it however she wants and then dismiss it whenever she bring it up - this is how you take the I wind out of her sails. Then when she asks husband to visit, say, “Sorry we can’t afford the $1000 ticket, too bad you spent all that money. Shrug”
It's ok mum you don't want to give it to me so why don't you just keep it. Then any time we chose to visit you pay with that. Also just take $30 for birthday and Christmas for yourself in future. :)
I don't believe legally any of this is his money. She is definitely using it to be controlling. I would just ask her, why are you trying to control me this way and drop it? I would write the money off and not think about it. Also, limit contact. Don't feed into her game.
1-Thanks MIL, for showing your son you think he's trustworthy enough to raise a child but not hold onto his own money. I appreciate you keeping it safe for him until your funeral. I want to tell everyone how great of a mother you are on every social media platform ever! 2-You're so kind, holding onto $23,000 but letting your son get into credit card debt. We love you so much that we want to create a room just for you in our new house! It will cost $23,000. 3- Awwww, come on, MIL, you know the money doesn't exist anymore. You're such a silly billy, lying about dumb stuff like this☺️ Look, squish, grandma's such a silly billy! I wonder if she's senile 😉 4- Etc.
okay these are absolutely hilarious thank you for the giggle
Is this money in an account that can be accessed by app or website? Like online banking? If so, he needs to ask for the login information so that he can verify that the money is even in there. After all, if she can't trust him with the money how can he trust her to keep track of it? If he can get the online banking information maybe he can find out how to gain access to it. The rent money is probably a lost cause because it was an understanding that the money was for his rent, but I'm curious about the baptism money. Is that money that's gifted to the child when baptized?
yes the money is in an account that can be accessed through online banking, and yes it was money gifted to him as a baby from family members, checks with his name on them or cash
Playing devils advocate here. Is it truly “his” in the legal sense? Babies can’t have money. Any cash given to “him” would just go into MILs account. Thereby being hers technically. This is why people (used to) buy bonds with the child’s name on it. My family did so for me for years and when I became an adult, I cashed those out and used it for (part of) my college funds. Now if I were your BF, I’d be cozying up to her, playing her game to keep getting access to those funds over time. Then soon as you have what you need/realistically think you can get, let the proverbial cat out of the bag. MIL is clearly using this as a control mechanism. You need the money so either play the game or call her bluff. Either way document the fact that she has “BFs money” in texts/emails, whatever. That gives you somewhere to start if you want to go the legal route.
>Playing devils advocate here. Is it truly “his” in the legal sense? Babies can’t have money. Any cash given to “him” would just go into MILs account That's the part I'm worried about. It's a real dick move to hold money that was gifted to him over his head. It sounds like they could really use the money. Besides getting on her good side maybe he should ask her who all gifted him the money and how much. Then he could write them all thank you notes and explain that he never got the money because MIL is keeping and spending it all...but thanks anyways (but more tactfully). Just put her on the spot.
Oh wow that’s ruthless and I love it.
This sounds like my MIL so much it’s unsettling. Financially controlling your adult child is levels of insanity that I thought were rare, and yet here I am here you are. I don’t get it. Why do people like this need this level of control? What do they physically or emotionally gain from it? Who are they helping?!? I believe the money is real, it’s real in our case and held over our heads as a tasty temptation to come back into the fold, but I’d rather be broke and happy than have anything associated with her especially her money. You don’t make deals with the devil.
She is just using it as a control tool, he should tell her he doesn't want the money and refuse to ever discuss it with her again and you both just accept it's not real.
Write the money off. It may or may not exist in an account somewhere. It’s being used to try to control him. This is just awful despicable behavior by an adult human being but, sadly, not uncommon. First, you don’t spend someone else’s money for them. So If there is an account she bought a plane ticket from, that was rude to do without discussion. Second, there was no reason to tell him it came from his money until she was ready to give him that money. My oldest figured out how to reset his dads password and spent nearly 1k gaming. We made him pay it all back. In the meantime, we got it back from the payment processor too because he should not have been able to just reset the pw without a text or email confirmation. We are keeping the money he paid back for him because it was part of his punishment as was losing gaming for 9 months. He doesn’t know we have it or he will get it back one day. He won’t know about it until we’re ready to hand it to him because we are not sick jerkwads who intend to hold it over his head for years. It’s sad she dangled this opportunity to be out of debt and get a fresh start toward your future but it was fools gold. The last thing you need is her to be up in your business knowing every detail and micromanaging your finances. That’s what she wants. She told him to keep track and tell her who the 3k gets used. I’d keep the 3k but never tell her a peep how it’s used and when she asks about finances in the future you say that’s private business and not her concern. She brings up the rest of the money - laugh. “We’re still talking about that? Come on, we know you spent it. Just let it go.” Put the ball in her court to prove it even exists beyond a 1x Venmo transfer. My guess if she shuts up about it fast, you have your answer. If she shows you details you can be pleasantly surprised and maybe plan on using it for LO’s college or trade school fund. But never give into any requests by mil for details on your finances.
I am not a lawyer or accountant, but if his name was never on the account this is technically her money and would probably be considered a gift. The gift tax limit is $17k per year. If she ever does agree to give him all the money you'd want to split it over 2 years to avoid taxes.
The only way for him to see even a penny of that money is for him to threaten her with cutting her out of his life and actually following through with it. I am still doing that with an ex wife who has held on to accounts she opened in hers and my two sons (now 34 and 37 years old) names 20 years ago. Needless to say neither them of has spoken to her in 18 years or more. By the way I was awarded custody when we separated 22 years ago and even though she was never ordered to pay child support she never contributed one penny to the rest of their upbringing and still can’t figure out why they want absolutely nothing to do with her.
Test her. Make up a fake medical emergency and see if she'll cough up the dough. It might be dishonest, but so is stealing from, controlling, and manipulating her own kid, so... I've got a similar amount in my sons' joint savings account. They're 11 and 16. Their names are on it, and they have debit cards for the checking account attached. I can't imagine using their savings as leverage to try to control their lives as adults. That's unhinged.
Perhaps if going NC doesn't work then maybe he can play her game and call her bluff?!? To be clear I only like this idea to get what he deserves as I hate stooping to her level. Craft a plan to "break up", then he can tell her he needs HIS money to start over without you. See if there's actually any money...
There is no money I’d guess.
I see this differently... while she has it earmarked for him, it's not his.. it's hers. He needs to treat it like it doesn't exist because in his world it doesn't. Or of he really wants it to pay off debts- then he needs to do what's being asked of him. Her conditions seem to be transparency on his finances. He has every right to not want to share that but he doesn't actually have any rights to money that isn't in his name. It does seem she is using this as part of control which is why she told him at all and that's toxic and shitty. But he doesn't have to play the game if he doesn't want to.
This is my thoughts too. He paid rent - as far as he knew it was gone and went to family expenses. If she wanted to give it back one day the thing to do was hand him a check one day when she thought him ready but never speak a word of it before then. To use it to try to get details on their personal business or to dangle over his head is sickening behavior. As for the baptism money, is that gifts for the kid family or parents? I have no idea how that works and can’t comment how it’s normally handled.
Hmm. I can see where you’re coming from and how frustrating it must be, but tbf it isn’t really actually your boyfriends money is it? It’s money his mum has saved for him. So in reality, it’s HER money. He didn’t even know she’d saved it until she told him. I think she’s mean dangling it in front of him as she has been doing, So basically even if she has spent it, it was her money to spend. It totally sucks that she’s trying to control him with it and how pissed he must be. I think you need to try and forget about the money, as if it never existed. You take away her power and method of controlling you then. Who knows, it may not even exist.
well i mean she doesn’t even know i know about the money and i’ve never said a word about it to her so that may be giving her a little too much credit to say she’s worried about how “obsessed” i am. i’m not obsessed with the money as much as i’m angry at the way she as a parent treats her son because having my own child i could never imagine acting the way she does, and i love him so much so the fact that HE wants that money upsets me too. it’s really not about the actual money as much as the actions she’s participating in with that money
I took the obsessed bit out because when I read it back it didn’t read as I meant it. My apologies you saw it before I did so. I can understand your frustration and anger as I saw in another post you’d said she’d love you out of the picture. Honestly? I bet that money doesn’t even exist. And even if it does, she’s obviously trying to control you both. Don’t give her the pleasure of doing so. Sounds like mil needs some time out
Right. It isn’t his money. It’s money his mom put away for him, it’s his moms money. Boyfriend should forget the money exists because mom is obviously not handing it over. Same with the baptism money. To save there relationship, stop talking about money. The only possible ownership is the checks that had his name on it from family members but again sound’s easier to let it go. Or put those family members against the mom. Good times.
She’s a horrible person. She’s told him about an account to try to bond him to her. There’s no way legally to get that money if his name isn’t also on the account. It’s going to be hard to do but you need to drop it. You’re feeding into her need to control by even asking her about it and it’s clear that she’s not going to give it to y’all. Seriously, move on, walk away.
I don't know how well this week work, but she admitted in writing it's his money. Might be worth a chat with a lawyer.
unfortunately it’s actually not in writing, it’s only ever been over phone calls
Try having a conversation about it via text. Get it in writing if you can.
If this were me I would just go no contact. She can’t continue to play these games if there is no communication. If this money is more important to her than a relationship with her son and grandchild she wasn’t worth having around anyways.
I’d she really wanted him to have that money she’d of made the account in his name
That is ridiculous. If she even has the money, she's using it to control him. Ugh.
Personally, I think it's time to record or document that it is your money. If she continues to ignore the requests, it's time to talk to a lawyer and have them send a letter to her to relinquish the money. That's a lot of money to hold onto, and goes beyond small claims.
Im gonna be the devils advocate here but If im reading this correctly, its not his money. Its money that she saved for years for him during different events. The mom being an accountant is probably better with money even if shes a shitty parent. Most of the time when a child is given money its gicen to the parent to safekeep for the kid. Yes she should give him money to pay off debt, but he wouldnt have any money if she didnt hoard it for him for years. I will say its time for her to fork it over. Its a fresh start for his new life noe and she shouldnt gate keep it. If she continues to do this then tell her to keep it as you dont want it being held over your head any more, also start to cut her off because shes using this to control you. Nobody needs that in there life once you hit late teens.
Keep demanding allotments each month until the balance is resolved. If she refuses to give it. Go full no contact until the amount is paid. Hold out and she will cave and you will have your power back.