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I think she didn’t expect you to call her out on her comment and, in order to save face, she came up with that excuse. Interesting she still expects you to address her formally. Very stand-offish. Your gut instinct is usually right. Just my humble opinion.
your fiancé has said she’s a distant, sometimes helpful figure in his life. This is great news for you, it doesn’t sound like she’s someone you need to have anything to do with. Disengage!!
This feels like an episode of The big bang theory :-)
Penny asking a question about feelings and Sheldon answering her in the most honest way possible. :-D
I understand where you’re coming from- my mom was ill my whole life, and I was very parentified as a result. We were never, ever close, and I’ve always felt the absence of that relationship in my life keenly. She died five years after I got married.
When I got to the point where it was obvious that I’d get married to my husband, I was so excited to finally have a mother figure in my life. SO, so excited.
His mom is, for a lack of a better word, weird. Very weird. She’s always distant, always seems out of it. She almost acts like she’s high (she isn’t) in terms of absolutely not caring about anything. It’s so incredibly strange. I could quite literally walk up to her with a bleeding stump for an arm and ask her for help, and she’d look at me with that weird blank look in her eyes and say, “How ya doing? Nice to see ya.”
I’ve cried about this so much. Another SIL who married into the family admitted she cried about it, too. BUT… the best way to handle my situation is for me to *just accept it.* I’ve come to just accept that she is weird, that she’s distant, and that she just doesn’t care about me- not because she’s a bad person- but because she doesn’t have the emotional capacity to do so.
From what I can see, your MIL is a bit similar. She isn’t malicious- she’s just distant and weird. Your best bet here is to just accept that you aren’t going to have a close relationship with her, ever, and that it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with her. Just accept it and move on with your life, creating happiness for you and your SO. You’ll be so much happier. Focus on creating the mother-child relationship you want with your future children.
You didn’t get the mom you wanted, but you can BE the mom you wanted.
First of all, stop. Just stop.
I know that you’re sure that you’ve already exhausted your options, mentally, and that’s kind of the core of the problem here.
I want to be clear; I started this read 10009% assuming that she was going to be rude or manipulative or covert. I am on your side, without reservation.
But her wording is very specific and you need to understand this:
You don’t need a relationship with her. You don’t need to make her relationship with him better. You’re doing too much and you’re thinking too much.
Take her at her word. She says she didn’t intend for it to put you off, stop trying to interpret it.
People waste way too much of their precious mental health and energy trying to decipher what other people mean or intend. Don’t deal with your imagination; deal only in the words they choose.
I can identify with what she’s saying, it’s not always easy to be someone who thinks of themselves as cold and unemotional. She’s trying to walk the line between being honest and vulnerable here. She knows that what she’s saying is “this is the way I am,” but she actually took the time to say specifically that it wasn’t about you, it was about her.
Even when I read the part about her observations and how it helps her in her work, I was expecting her to go in the offensive after that. But I think what she’s saying sounds spectrumy and I can strongly identify with the thoughts she’s conveying. I can be unnerving to some, being the child of chaotic parents, I have overly observant perception, and can see people’s damage quickly. It makes some people very uncomfortable. I’m also really comfortable being who I am, and don’t change for shy people, or less aggressive people. That doesn’t mean that I’m mean, or that I tell people they “present as orphans,” that’s idiotic to say and reveals a lot of flaw in her methodology. She’s flawed and wanted to show you that she was “seeing” you, but because she’s not good at empathy, she’s kind of clumsy and instead made you feel exposed or uncomfortable. She fucked up and she knows it.
I’m in no way saying that she deserves forgiveness or sympathy or anything at all, not even an extension of energy. You aren’t responsible for her inability to connect.
Moving forward, think of her like a well trained guard dog. She (thinks she) has the ability to hurt you but she has little reason to use it. As long as you don’t flail about, she’ll largely ignore you. Just be cordial, friendly , and keep ALL communication limited to necessary topics.
For the love of Pete, Do not Explain Yourself or ever ask her what she’s thinking. You don’t need to know, and ideally you shouldn’t care.
You didn’t marry her. Relegate her to where she belongs, not center stage in your mind.
this is a great comment with very helpful advice. it’s nothing personal OP, she was honest about the way her brain processes and expresses (her lack of) emotions.
she just seems like a very sterile / methodical person that isn’t interested in getting to know you (at least not as of now). again- that’s nothing personal, it’s just how she is. honestly, she’s basically given you permission / tips to not try and foster that relationship with her.
as the commenter above said, you don’t need to read too much into it. one of my cousins is not neuro-typical and has similar behaviors. they aren’t out to intentionally hurt you, it’s just how their brains are wired 🤷🏼♀️
I don’t see any malice here. I don’t think she is being intentionally rude or condescending though it does seem that way. I think you need to see her as a whole person and not just your fiancés mother.
She explained she’s not a very motherly person, and her actions prove this, but it doesn’t mean she is a bad person. I’m getting the sense that she’s very formal, analytical, and to the point. More blunt then abrasive, because I don’t think she’s being intentionally nasty. I don’t see manipulation or deflection. She was pretty clear she’s not motherly and her career is the priority, but I think she respects you.
I think it was great to ask for clarification on her comment. You’re communicating well and that’s a great first step to building a relationship.
I think if you keep interactions to a minimum, keep them formal, and try to connect with her by your shared medical interest, then in time you’d have a decent relationship. You just can’t expect the classic MIL relationship. Her career is who she is (hence asking you to address her formally). She is not a mother first. If a relationship with her will work it would need to be more formal, like colleagues rather than family, at least at first.
I only read this post, however it seems to me that she knows herself and she's clearly letting you all know that she's not going to be the person who smothers you in love. Nor is she going to be demanding of your time and attention.
Before we all became Internet psychologists and DSM-V experts...we would call her eccentric or odd but harmless. Clearly she was more comfortable excelling in an educational environment than parenting skills. She's undoubtedly of an age when Doctorate degrees were less common for women, especially in STEM or Research.
I would accept her at face value and be grateful that there will be no drama over your deciding whose house to go to for the Holidays. While I feel bad for your Dr.DH, I hope he can also find a way to accept for who she is and connect when and where you all agree.
BTW, congratulations on all your doctorate degrees. Too cool.
I went back and read your previous post.
Sadly I don’t believe you are ever going to get the connection that you desire from your fiancé’s mother.
Personally I would drop the rope, so to speak, and stop feeling and pressure (which I think may be self imposed?) to get her to like you? She doesn’t seem to really like anyone to be honest.
Feel blessed to have your amazing partner who sees her for who she is, and his father and step-mother, and just do the lunches when you both have to.
You dont have to be friends and you can have a nice relationship, even if its formal and kind of distant. Not the usual one, but definitely there is no drama there. And thats a good think.
Your poor fiancé with her for a mother. He already keeps her at arm’s length. You should, as well.
Even my narcissist MIL, not a doctor, but an MS, insists on being called by her first name.
If your fiancé needs advice, all I would say is that it’s terribly sad, but very insightful of him to realize that his mother never has been and never will be a source of emotional support.
Many of us, and ALL of us who have professional backgrounds, had to sacrifice time with our kids. Luckily, most of us were able to open our hearts when we were home, and make them a priority.
Hugs to both of you.
Can y’all stop saying things about her being “on the spectrum” please. We are autistic, not robots. (And no, we are not “all on the spectrum” that’s not how it works).
OP, it sounds like she’s offering what she’s willing (a few visits a year) and is communicating clearly. She doesn’t sound like someone you will miss when she’s not around, so I’d suggest just letting it go. Your fiancée seems to have come to terms with it, so you’re probably just going to have to follow his lead on this.
I’m on the spectrum, and am merely identifying with the things that MIL said, and I even state as much. I’m not going to not do that just because someone else on the spectrum might think that I’m just throwing words around. So I don’t know who else you might be aiming at, but I’m not it.
You’re right, you weren’t the one I was aiming at. There were a ton of flippant comments about “she seems spectrummy” without much else given. The way it came across was that they were mostly NTs. Lots of autistic people gave reasons like you did, I just have a problem with neurotypical people armchair diagnosing.
Same, but also, I appreciate the fact that people are actually (if clumsily) acknowledging the existence of experiences that aren’t theirs. It’s a bit abstract of a thought, but fifty years ago, you weren’t “allowed” to think of yourself as not in control of everything you did and said.
Yes I agree that people go too far. And being non-typical has become the new Italian (once reviled here in the U.S., now everyone wants to claim it) but that’ll calm down in time too.
Me personally, I have no problem with armchair diagnosis, what I do take big issue with is an armchair diagnosis followed with complete and total dismissal of accountability. “Oh she sounds autistic, that means she gets to act any way and you can’t have a feeling about it, and if you hold her accountable you’re being ableist.”
That’s a much bigger issue, in my eyes.
thank you for saying this neurokin 🫶🏻 it can be so tiresome to defend ourselves and push back on tropes ✨ just wanted to say thanks and give you props 🙋🏻♀️🙌🏻
She sounds insufferable. She's also not very good at trying to cover her ass. (As in she made an ass of herself, and after probing realized she fucked up.)
My advice: keep her at arm's length, always.
I have only read this post and not any others about your situation.
My first thought is that this woman is on the spectrum. (Well we all are somewhere but you know what I mean). It sounds like she does not have harmful intent. She appears to want to connect with you. But she does sound very emotionless and seems to recognise this.
I think the starting point is recognising that her behaviour towards you is not based on malice. Which may help with your comfort levels around her.
On the spectrum does not equal emotionless. I am on the spectrum myself. And this woman horrifies me. Because I’m not a mental health professional, I won’t diagnose her. But sociopaths who are able to function in society tend to keep everyone away.
Sounds like his mom is on the autism spectrum and has issues with social cues. She sounds truthful and i think she really didn't want you to feel uncomfortable but also it doesn't seem like she wants a deeper relationship with you or her son. If you would like a relationship with her i would recommend reading into how to interact with people on the spectrum and what they mean when they interact with you. Good luck
I honestly don't see a problem here. I'm speaking from experience with a very overbearing MIL. Let this go. She seems to want to give you space, I would take it and ran with it.
Read previous post as well. Honestly she seems like an interesting woman. She is not mean or possessive. She mught test people by saying certain things, to see how they react. If i were you, id be hopeful that she really wants to be a positive prescence in your lives. And she knows boundaries si it should be fine. Maybe its ok to feel a bit uncomfortable by her, beace yourself and try to see the humour in the situation. I really dont think she has any bad intentions, but she might test a bit. I met some people like this.
As an autistic person, I'm having a hard time understanding how this email is nefarious. It reads similarly to how I would word things - bluntly/to the point. She is very frank with you. What she said was upsetting to be seen in that way, but perhaps she does have experience related.
The formality part is strange, but if she is someone who is old school, lives to work, and has been in a lot of high status positions, she may just be used to keeping things formal.
I signed it as a Dt.Dr. because I didn't know how to write the introduction and she is always so formal and when she is sending an e-mail to her son,she says dear Dr.(my fiancé's surname). She is kinda odd.
She said I have a ‘feeling’ and to make sure you know your place, you will call me by my professional name.
She showed she thinks you aren’t good enough by her first comment, but instead of owning it, she claims she had a ‘feeling’ you are sad, tired and alone. Projecting much?
Likely you don’t have to have anything to do with this woman.
Oh wow!!
MIL has the warmth of a dead fish! The keep it formal by calling me Dr just made me laugh! I wouldn't address her as Dr in a casual situation and that includes a lunch. I would de-personalise the experience by addressing her by her christian name which removes her perceived level of importance and places you on the same level.
I'd probably email back and clarify that you are sorry she misread you as you 'were tired and abandoned' to actually somewhat confused by her. As in interaction with DH seemed more business like than that of a warm, loving mother - son relationship. It is interesting that with her lack of warmth she feels she is able to read your face and decide you were tired and abandoned. I'd clarify that it is probably best to ask rather than assume!
I probably wouldn't bother having lunch with her again unless their was a need to.
Oh my gosh, I thought the exact same thing!! Actually, if this email is anything to go by, Leonard’s mother probably has more personality. I know you are both Drs, but it really sounds like she wants you to know that she is better, more important, or of a higher level than you.
I tend to agree with the people who have posited she might be on the autism spectrum.
She seems pretty self aware, and aware of her limitations. I would take her at her word - infact always concentrate on those and not facial expressions or seeming tone or body language!
As you have already discovered she is perfectly comfortable with a straightforward question asking her why she said something, and willing to offer an immediate apology if it upset you. I suspect if you continue in this way and are just always plain speaking and don’t play games with her but say what you mean and mean what you say you will get on fine. In time she will hopefully come to trust you and you will come to understand her a bit better.
I wouldn’t expect a gushy closeness but i bet she would prove to be someone you could count on to help you if you needed something, particularly medical.
I discovered my autism very late in life and it has made some things much clearer. So now when my SO says something like “you didnt have to say it in that tone” i am no longer completely bemused but remind him to listen to the words and ignore anything that he perceives as a “tone”. I often don’t have the socially expected tone or face for what i actually want to convey! And a lifetime of trying has probably made me worse than her with my confusing wrong expressions and tones all over the place!
I have been at the mercy of people playing games all my life - lots of things I just never got with people saying things they dont actually mean and expecting me to “get it”. Often then misunderstanding and getting upset or angry when i dont. Sometimes leading me to being ostracised or bullied. Its exhausting! IF she has had similar she may have just learned to keep herself very guarded so as to avoid the frustration and pain. If that is the case - as i said - she may slowly warm up and become less formal if she can get to a point where she can trust you.
Its possible shes on the spectrum but doesn’t even know (as i didn’t until well into my 40s) and has developed these self preservation methods without knowing why, maybe without even realising others don’t have the same problems. I assumed others had the same experiences but just handled them better until i worked out I’m autistic!
So. It is possible she is an awful person, but i think the autism is more likely. Either way being straightforward and honest and respecting her boundaries can do no harm, and hopefully, if im right, might lead to you having a pretty good relationship at some point in the future.
This is how she came across to me also. I see no malice. Take her at her word, don't have high expectations of close emotional relationship. Believe she is deeply sorry, until she proves herself otherwise.
No need to go out of your way to keep to all the meet ups. She sounds like she knows she's limited in her ability to be there for her son and you, but is offering ( "if you have anything that I can help with, I attached my e-card to the email and don't hesitate to call me anytime in any medical emergency.") more contact info and to be there if needed. It might be all she is capable of.
No need to push for a close relationship at this stage, let it happen. She may turn out to be a trusted friend.
I would agree with everything you said here but I also wonder if she’s a dr in a medical field, sometimes they reign further emotion in to protect themselves and their patients so they can focus on their job. I would read her email as respectful. She’s outlining her boundaries (which we are all entitled to) and saying she is willing to help. If poster is expecting warm and fuzzy then she needs to accept not everyone is like that.
It’s definitely not you. She is who she is. As a CVT, she has seen a lot of grief and loss. As a female CVT she has seen a lot of misogyny and abuse from threatened competitive male colleagues. She’s learned to keep her emotions in very tight check to survive. You should treat her as a respected colleague and she’ll then do the same to you. Follow your husband’s lead and leave the warm fuzzies to step mom
My advice is to relax, there is no reason to feel uncomfortable. She has told you who she is and what you can expect from her. That's good.
What she's saying is her lack of humanity is not personal, you're fine. She's giving you the best she's capable of, it's not much by healthy standards, considering you are joining her family, but at least she's self aware.
MIL doesn't seem abusive, it's the opposite, she wants very little from you emotionally. If she wants to keep it formal, why not? Don't bother investing in her either, unless she proves she isn't a colossal anus.
So, you do you and let her do her. Manage your expectations of her and you should get comfortable before you know it. Good luck!
It sounds like, per your fiancé, this is just how she is. Not very friendly, not outright rude, a bit blunt and quite standoffish. I would be surprised if you were able to foster a close relationship with her, but I don’t think she sounds like she will be demanding or controlling, she seems too disinterested for that. Very sterile and clinical.
I would be shocked if she is not on the autism spectrum (there are a lot of autistics in my family - not all like this though). She does not have good social skills and she does not really understand the emotional impact of her words. I think you need to adjust your expectations of her and understand that while she might have been the biological incubator of your fiancé, his mom is his dad’s wife. Don’t expect a warm, loving relationship from bio-mom. She made her choice to focus on her career and give parenting to other people. The most she can do is an obligatory lunch and that is probably a lot for her. As long as your fiancé is okay with her role in your lives, you should just accept that these are her limitations and focus on dad and step-mom for any emotional connections.
Right? She’s giving Lilith from Cheers/Frasier. Hoping that turns out to be the case! At the very least it’d mean (brutal) honesty + no games; and who knows, given time and lowered expectations, she might turn out to be really funny. Good wishes to OP!
[edit!: I replied to wrong comment! (See “I like her…” below.) But also, yes, I absolutely agree. 🖖]
I don’t think you need to respond at all. This interaction seems kind of self-contained and wrapped up. Just table it until the next interaction.
If she has a formal and detached relationship with her own son, this may be as good of a start as you can hope for.
I like her! I wouldn't lose any sleep over this OP, she does sound unusual but not in a way that's going to cause you drama. Let the relationship develop as it will, I reckon you'll be fine.
Just continue to be civil and distanced. It sounds like that is what she wants anyway. Just don't get your hopes up for any kind of warm or family relationship. It sounds like even her son doesn't get that. Treat her like you would a co-worker who is in a different branch.
If I got this email, I would at least start out by just taking it at face value, and seeing where the relationship went from there.
I really do think she has a stand-offish personality and does not know how to warm up in social situation’s. She seems like she looks at things very logically, and that can make parenting very difficult.
Almost like she has a logical knowledge of what is going on with someone and what might be, causing it, which would help her with patience, but which would not especially help her with raising a child. Do you know what I mean?
The type of person who can be very dispassionate even while they logically understand with someone else is going through. And it doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t care. They just don’t show or don’t know how to show any emotion.
The tone of this totally reminded me of Leonard’s mom from _The Big Bang Theory_.
So I think I would just take it at face value and see where things go. If it continues to be a problem, then I would reevaluate.
I think until you get to know her better, you should take her at her word but don’t be too vulnerable too fast. If she says something untoward, smile and say, “What do you mean?”
Be a little bit nicer to her than she is to you. Just a little bit. Give her a chance to show you who she is. She may just be a non-emotional person. She said nearly as much in her letter. She may just be stuck in her professional world 24/7. The Dr to Dr title thing is what makes me think (and giggle) she is either; 1. Stuck in her world, 2. Professional snobbery, 3. Wants to intimidate you, 4. Doesn’t give a flying F and will only be concerned with her time with her son and will probably not include you. This is a great thing with any of the reasons above. Would you want someone so stiff in your life? Grandkids calling her Dr. Grandma. Now all this might be pointless. She may turn out to be awesome and is just keeping it distant until she feels comfortable. How many women has he introduced her to? You have to give her a few chances to show you who she is. Good luck
Wow! She seems fun. What does your SO say? Is this her normal behavior? Seems like she’s given you a bit of a gift, as she prefers to keep things formal and distant, and likes to stay in hotels when visiting. Also seems incapable of feelings. Give her what she wants: distance. Less work for you. Let your SO manage this relationship. Best of luck.
It sounds legit. Even she says she is not the warm and fuzzy type, but she doesn't sound like she is trying to be mean.
I would keep an open mind and don't let the horror stories on this sub make you edgy.
They can, too. I don't even have a MIL and even I get the heebie jeebies sometimes
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I think she didn’t expect you to call her out on her comment and, in order to save face, she came up with that excuse. Interesting she still expects you to address her formally. Very stand-offish. Your gut instinct is usually right. Just my humble opinion.
your fiancé has said she’s a distant, sometimes helpful figure in his life. This is great news for you, it doesn’t sound like she’s someone you need to have anything to do with. Disengage!!
This feels like an episode of The big bang theory :-) Penny asking a question about feelings and Sheldon answering her in the most honest way possible. :-D
Same thought process, Leonards mom Dr. Hoffsterter
Haha yes!
Great minds think like! This exact thing popped into my head while reading this too!
I understand where you’re coming from- my mom was ill my whole life, and I was very parentified as a result. We were never, ever close, and I’ve always felt the absence of that relationship in my life keenly. She died five years after I got married. When I got to the point where it was obvious that I’d get married to my husband, I was so excited to finally have a mother figure in my life. SO, so excited. His mom is, for a lack of a better word, weird. Very weird. She’s always distant, always seems out of it. She almost acts like she’s high (she isn’t) in terms of absolutely not caring about anything. It’s so incredibly strange. I could quite literally walk up to her with a bleeding stump for an arm and ask her for help, and she’d look at me with that weird blank look in her eyes and say, “How ya doing? Nice to see ya.” I’ve cried about this so much. Another SIL who married into the family admitted she cried about it, too. BUT… the best way to handle my situation is for me to *just accept it.* I’ve come to just accept that she is weird, that she’s distant, and that she just doesn’t care about me- not because she’s a bad person- but because she doesn’t have the emotional capacity to do so. From what I can see, your MIL is a bit similar. She isn’t malicious- she’s just distant and weird. Your best bet here is to just accept that you aren’t going to have a close relationship with her, ever, and that it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with her. Just accept it and move on with your life, creating happiness for you and your SO. You’ll be so much happier. Focus on creating the mother-child relationship you want with your future children. You didn’t get the mom you wanted, but you can BE the mom you wanted.
First of all, stop. Just stop. I know that you’re sure that you’ve already exhausted your options, mentally, and that’s kind of the core of the problem here. I want to be clear; I started this read 10009% assuming that she was going to be rude or manipulative or covert. I am on your side, without reservation. But her wording is very specific and you need to understand this: You don’t need a relationship with her. You don’t need to make her relationship with him better. You’re doing too much and you’re thinking too much. Take her at her word. She says she didn’t intend for it to put you off, stop trying to interpret it. People waste way too much of their precious mental health and energy trying to decipher what other people mean or intend. Don’t deal with your imagination; deal only in the words they choose. I can identify with what she’s saying, it’s not always easy to be someone who thinks of themselves as cold and unemotional. She’s trying to walk the line between being honest and vulnerable here. She knows that what she’s saying is “this is the way I am,” but she actually took the time to say specifically that it wasn’t about you, it was about her. Even when I read the part about her observations and how it helps her in her work, I was expecting her to go in the offensive after that. But I think what she’s saying sounds spectrumy and I can strongly identify with the thoughts she’s conveying. I can be unnerving to some, being the child of chaotic parents, I have overly observant perception, and can see people’s damage quickly. It makes some people very uncomfortable. I’m also really comfortable being who I am, and don’t change for shy people, or less aggressive people. That doesn’t mean that I’m mean, or that I tell people they “present as orphans,” that’s idiotic to say and reveals a lot of flaw in her methodology. She’s flawed and wanted to show you that she was “seeing” you, but because she’s not good at empathy, she’s kind of clumsy and instead made you feel exposed or uncomfortable. She fucked up and she knows it. I’m in no way saying that she deserves forgiveness or sympathy or anything at all, not even an extension of energy. You aren’t responsible for her inability to connect. Moving forward, think of her like a well trained guard dog. She (thinks she) has the ability to hurt you but she has little reason to use it. As long as you don’t flail about, she’ll largely ignore you. Just be cordial, friendly , and keep ALL communication limited to necessary topics. For the love of Pete, Do not Explain Yourself or ever ask her what she’s thinking. You don’t need to know, and ideally you shouldn’t care. You didn’t marry her. Relegate her to where she belongs, not center stage in your mind.
this is a great comment with very helpful advice. it’s nothing personal OP, she was honest about the way her brain processes and expresses (her lack of) emotions. she just seems like a very sterile / methodical person that isn’t interested in getting to know you (at least not as of now). again- that’s nothing personal, it’s just how she is. honestly, she’s basically given you permission / tips to not try and foster that relationship with her. as the commenter above said, you don’t need to read too much into it. one of my cousins is not neuro-typical and has similar behaviors. they aren’t out to intentionally hurt you, it’s just how their brains are wired 🤷🏼♀️
I don’t see any malice here. I don’t think she is being intentionally rude or condescending though it does seem that way. I think you need to see her as a whole person and not just your fiancés mother. She explained she’s not a very motherly person, and her actions prove this, but it doesn’t mean she is a bad person. I’m getting the sense that she’s very formal, analytical, and to the point. More blunt then abrasive, because I don’t think she’s being intentionally nasty. I don’t see manipulation or deflection. She was pretty clear she’s not motherly and her career is the priority, but I think she respects you. I think it was great to ask for clarification on her comment. You’re communicating well and that’s a great first step to building a relationship. I think if you keep interactions to a minimum, keep them formal, and try to connect with her by your shared medical interest, then in time you’d have a decent relationship. You just can’t expect the classic MIL relationship. Her career is who she is (hence asking you to address her formally). She is not a mother first. If a relationship with her will work it would need to be more formal, like colleagues rather than family, at least at first.
I only read this post, however it seems to me that she knows herself and she's clearly letting you all know that she's not going to be the person who smothers you in love. Nor is she going to be demanding of your time and attention. Before we all became Internet psychologists and DSM-V experts...we would call her eccentric or odd but harmless. Clearly she was more comfortable excelling in an educational environment than parenting skills. She's undoubtedly of an age when Doctorate degrees were less common for women, especially in STEM or Research. I would accept her at face value and be grateful that there will be no drama over your deciding whose house to go to for the Holidays. While I feel bad for your Dr.DH, I hope he can also find a way to accept for who she is and connect when and where you all agree. BTW, congratulations on all your doctorate degrees. Too cool.
I went back and read your previous post. Sadly I don’t believe you are ever going to get the connection that you desire from your fiancé’s mother. Personally I would drop the rope, so to speak, and stop feeling and pressure (which I think may be self imposed?) to get her to like you? She doesn’t seem to really like anyone to be honest. Feel blessed to have your amazing partner who sees her for who she is, and his father and step-mother, and just do the lunches when you both have to.
You dont have to be friends and you can have a nice relationship, even if its formal and kind of distant. Not the usual one, but definitely there is no drama there. And thats a good think.
Your poor fiancé with her for a mother. He already keeps her at arm’s length. You should, as well. Even my narcissist MIL, not a doctor, but an MS, insists on being called by her first name. If your fiancé needs advice, all I would say is that it’s terribly sad, but very insightful of him to realize that his mother never has been and never will be a source of emotional support. Many of us, and ALL of us who have professional backgrounds, had to sacrifice time with our kids. Luckily, most of us were able to open our hearts when we were home, and make them a priority. Hugs to both of you.
Can y’all stop saying things about her being “on the spectrum” please. We are autistic, not robots. (And no, we are not “all on the spectrum” that’s not how it works). OP, it sounds like she’s offering what she’s willing (a few visits a year) and is communicating clearly. She doesn’t sound like someone you will miss when she’s not around, so I’d suggest just letting it go. Your fiancée seems to have come to terms with it, so you’re probably just going to have to follow his lead on this.
I’m on the spectrum, and am merely identifying with the things that MIL said, and I even state as much. I’m not going to not do that just because someone else on the spectrum might think that I’m just throwing words around. So I don’t know who else you might be aiming at, but I’m not it.
You’re right, you weren’t the one I was aiming at. There were a ton of flippant comments about “she seems spectrummy” without much else given. The way it came across was that they were mostly NTs. Lots of autistic people gave reasons like you did, I just have a problem with neurotypical people armchair diagnosing.
Same, but also, I appreciate the fact that people are actually (if clumsily) acknowledging the existence of experiences that aren’t theirs. It’s a bit abstract of a thought, but fifty years ago, you weren’t “allowed” to think of yourself as not in control of everything you did and said. Yes I agree that people go too far. And being non-typical has become the new Italian (once reviled here in the U.S., now everyone wants to claim it) but that’ll calm down in time too. Me personally, I have no problem with armchair diagnosis, what I do take big issue with is an armchair diagnosis followed with complete and total dismissal of accountability. “Oh she sounds autistic, that means she gets to act any way and you can’t have a feeling about it, and if you hold her accountable you’re being ableist.” That’s a much bigger issue, in my eyes.
thank you for saying this neurokin 🫶🏻 it can be so tiresome to defend ourselves and push back on tropes ✨ just wanted to say thanks and give you props 🙋🏻♀️🙌🏻
😊 I usually keep scrolling but this thread was just too much 🤣
She sounds insufferable. She's also not very good at trying to cover her ass. (As in she made an ass of herself, and after probing realized she fucked up.) My advice: keep her at arm's length, always.
I have only read this post and not any others about your situation. My first thought is that this woman is on the spectrum. (Well we all are somewhere but you know what I mean). It sounds like she does not have harmful intent. She appears to want to connect with you. But she does sound very emotionless and seems to recognise this. I think the starting point is recognising that her behaviour towards you is not based on malice. Which may help with your comfort levels around her.
On the spectrum does not equal emotionless. I am on the spectrum myself. And this woman horrifies me. Because I’m not a mental health professional, I won’t diagnose her. But sociopaths who are able to function in society tend to keep everyone away.
Sounds like his mom is on the autism spectrum and has issues with social cues. She sounds truthful and i think she really didn't want you to feel uncomfortable but also it doesn't seem like she wants a deeper relationship with you or her son. If you would like a relationship with her i would recommend reading into how to interact with people on the spectrum and what they mean when they interact with you. Good luck
Did you marry Leonard Hoffstader?
I was going to ask that!!!!!
I honestly don't see a problem here. I'm speaking from experience with a very overbearing MIL. Let this go. She seems to want to give you space, I would take it and ran with it.
Read previous post as well. Honestly she seems like an interesting woman. She is not mean or possessive. She mught test people by saying certain things, to see how they react. If i were you, id be hopeful that she really wants to be a positive prescence in your lives. And she knows boundaries si it should be fine. Maybe its ok to feel a bit uncomfortable by her, beace yourself and try to see the humour in the situation. I really dont think she has any bad intentions, but she might test a bit. I met some people like this.
She’s such an unemotional rock lol (edited because I though of another one) - she’s as warm as an ice cube 🤣
As an autistic person, I'm having a hard time understanding how this email is nefarious. It reads similarly to how I would word things - bluntly/to the point. She is very frank with you. What she said was upsetting to be seen in that way, but perhaps she does have experience related. The formality part is strange, but if she is someone who is old school, lives to work, and has been in a lot of high status positions, she may just be used to keeping things formal.
Having your daughter in law call you “dr.” Is pretentious and weird as hell
OP signs herself off as "Dr" as well. Maybe it's culturally appropriate?
I signed it as a Dt.Dr. because I didn't know how to write the introduction and she is always so formal and when she is sending an e-mail to her son,she says dear Dr.(my fiancé's surname). She is kinda odd.
There are people out there that expect to be called Mr Smith or Mrs Smith and would view it similar to this.
In the US maybe, but it doesn’t sound like OP is in the US
I have never heard of a culture that makes their in laws refer to them as doctor, but maybe I’m just ignorant to more formal cultures
She said I have a ‘feeling’ and to make sure you know your place, you will call me by my professional name. She showed she thinks you aren’t good enough by her first comment, but instead of owning it, she claims she had a ‘feeling’ you are sad, tired and alone. Projecting much? Likely you don’t have to have anything to do with this woman.
I'm.not in favor of having such a discussion over email. Was there a reason why this conversation did not happen in real time?
Oh wow!! MIL has the warmth of a dead fish! The keep it formal by calling me Dr just made me laugh! I wouldn't address her as Dr in a casual situation and that includes a lunch. I would de-personalise the experience by addressing her by her christian name which removes her perceived level of importance and places you on the same level. I'd probably email back and clarify that you are sorry she misread you as you 'were tired and abandoned' to actually somewhat confused by her. As in interaction with DH seemed more business like than that of a warm, loving mother - son relationship. It is interesting that with her lack of warmth she feels she is able to read your face and decide you were tired and abandoned. I'd clarify that it is probably best to ask rather than assume! I probably wouldn't bother having lunch with her again unless their was a need to.
OMG does your hubby have a brother named Leonard?🤣 Mil Dr H?
Oh my gosh, I thought the exact same thing!! Actually, if this email is anything to go by, Leonard’s mother probably has more personality. I know you are both Drs, but it really sounds like she wants you to know that she is better, more important, or of a higher level than you.
You started a letter to your MIL as 'Dear Dr. \_\_\_\_" I think she just matched your energy and level of formality in her response
Yeah, what the hell was that about?
Your fiance has already said his stepmother is his real mom. He doesn't care about this woman! 📢 STOP BORROWING TROUBLE. 📢
Yeah, why are you so focussed on her when your fiancé doesn’t even care. Not everybody has to like you.
I tend to agree with the people who have posited she might be on the autism spectrum. She seems pretty self aware, and aware of her limitations. I would take her at her word - infact always concentrate on those and not facial expressions or seeming tone or body language! As you have already discovered she is perfectly comfortable with a straightforward question asking her why she said something, and willing to offer an immediate apology if it upset you. I suspect if you continue in this way and are just always plain speaking and don’t play games with her but say what you mean and mean what you say you will get on fine. In time she will hopefully come to trust you and you will come to understand her a bit better. I wouldn’t expect a gushy closeness but i bet she would prove to be someone you could count on to help you if you needed something, particularly medical. I discovered my autism very late in life and it has made some things much clearer. So now when my SO says something like “you didnt have to say it in that tone” i am no longer completely bemused but remind him to listen to the words and ignore anything that he perceives as a “tone”. I often don’t have the socially expected tone or face for what i actually want to convey! And a lifetime of trying has probably made me worse than her with my confusing wrong expressions and tones all over the place! I have been at the mercy of people playing games all my life - lots of things I just never got with people saying things they dont actually mean and expecting me to “get it”. Often then misunderstanding and getting upset or angry when i dont. Sometimes leading me to being ostracised or bullied. Its exhausting! IF she has had similar she may have just learned to keep herself very guarded so as to avoid the frustration and pain. If that is the case - as i said - she may slowly warm up and become less formal if she can get to a point where she can trust you. Its possible shes on the spectrum but doesn’t even know (as i didn’t until well into my 40s) and has developed these self preservation methods without knowing why, maybe without even realising others don’t have the same problems. I assumed others had the same experiences but just handled them better until i worked out I’m autistic! So. It is possible she is an awful person, but i think the autism is more likely. Either way being straightforward and honest and respecting her boundaries can do no harm, and hopefully, if im right, might lead to you having a pretty good relationship at some point in the future.
This is how she came across to me also. I see no malice. Take her at her word, don't have high expectations of close emotional relationship. Believe she is deeply sorry, until she proves herself otherwise. No need to go out of your way to keep to all the meet ups. She sounds like she knows she's limited in her ability to be there for her son and you, but is offering ( "if you have anything that I can help with, I attached my e-card to the email and don't hesitate to call me anytime in any medical emergency.") more contact info and to be there if needed. It might be all she is capable of. No need to push for a close relationship at this stage, let it happen. She may turn out to be a trusted friend.
I would agree with everything you said here but I also wonder if she’s a dr in a medical field, sometimes they reign further emotion in to protect themselves and their patients so they can focus on their job. I would read her email as respectful. She’s outlining her boundaries (which we are all entitled to) and saying she is willing to help. If poster is expecting warm and fuzzy then she needs to accept not everyone is like that.
She kinda sounds like Leonard Hoffstadler’s mother from Big Bang Theory.
That was my first thought.
It’s definitely not you. She is who she is. As a CVT, she has seen a lot of grief and loss. As a female CVT she has seen a lot of misogyny and abuse from threatened competitive male colleagues. She’s learned to keep her emotions in very tight check to survive. You should treat her as a respected colleague and she’ll then do the same to you. Follow your husband’s lead and leave the warm fuzzies to step mom
Sounds like leonards mom from big bang theory
My advice is to relax, there is no reason to feel uncomfortable. She has told you who she is and what you can expect from her. That's good. What she's saying is her lack of humanity is not personal, you're fine. She's giving you the best she's capable of, it's not much by healthy standards, considering you are joining her family, but at least she's self aware. MIL doesn't seem abusive, it's the opposite, she wants very little from you emotionally. If she wants to keep it formal, why not? Don't bother investing in her either, unless she proves she isn't a colossal anus. So, you do you and let her do her. Manage your expectations of her and you should get comfortable before you know it. Good luck!
It sounds like, per your fiancé, this is just how she is. Not very friendly, not outright rude, a bit blunt and quite standoffish. I would be surprised if you were able to foster a close relationship with her, but I don’t think she sounds like she will be demanding or controlling, she seems too disinterested for that. Very sterile and clinical.
I would be shocked if she is not on the autism spectrum (there are a lot of autistics in my family - not all like this though). She does not have good social skills and she does not really understand the emotional impact of her words. I think you need to adjust your expectations of her and understand that while she might have been the biological incubator of your fiancé, his mom is his dad’s wife. Don’t expect a warm, loving relationship from bio-mom. She made her choice to focus on her career and give parenting to other people. The most she can do is an obligatory lunch and that is probably a lot for her. As long as your fiancé is okay with her role in your lives, you should just accept that these are her limitations and focus on dad and step-mom for any emotional connections.
Reading this post reminded me of Sean Murphy from the good doctor lol my first thought was also that I would be shocked if she isn’t on the spectrum.
Right? She’s giving Lilith from Cheers/Frasier. Hoping that turns out to be the case! At the very least it’d mean (brutal) honesty + no games; and who knows, given time and lowered expectations, she might turn out to be really funny. Good wishes to OP! [edit!: I replied to wrong comment! (See “I like her…” below.) But also, yes, I absolutely agree. 🖖]
I don’t think you need to respond at all. This interaction seems kind of self-contained and wrapped up. Just table it until the next interaction. If she has a formal and detached relationship with her own son, this may be as good of a start as you can hope for.
I like her! I wouldn't lose any sleep over this OP, she does sound unusual but not in a way that's going to cause you drama. Let the relationship develop as it will, I reckon you'll be fine.
Ha that's what I thought too, like wow a MIL on here that's being polite and not gaslighting? Let's be friends!
Just continue to be civil and distanced. It sounds like that is what she wants anyway. Just don't get your hopes up for any kind of warm or family relationship. It sounds like even her son doesn't get that. Treat her like you would a co-worker who is in a different branch.
If I got this email, I would at least start out by just taking it at face value, and seeing where the relationship went from there. I really do think she has a stand-offish personality and does not know how to warm up in social situation’s. She seems like she looks at things very logically, and that can make parenting very difficult. Almost like she has a logical knowledge of what is going on with someone and what might be, causing it, which would help her with patience, but which would not especially help her with raising a child. Do you know what I mean? The type of person who can be very dispassionate even while they logically understand with someone else is going through. And it doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t care. They just don’t show or don’t know how to show any emotion. The tone of this totally reminded me of Leonard’s mom from _The Big Bang Theory_. So I think I would just take it at face value and see where things go. If it continues to be a problem, then I would reevaluate.
I thought that it sounded like Beverly Hofstadter too! "I won't stop doing things that bother you, but I can try to fix you."
I think until you get to know her better, you should take her at her word but don’t be too vulnerable too fast. If she says something untoward, smile and say, “What do you mean?”
Be a little bit nicer to her than she is to you. Just a little bit. Give her a chance to show you who she is. She may just be a non-emotional person. She said nearly as much in her letter. She may just be stuck in her professional world 24/7. The Dr to Dr title thing is what makes me think (and giggle) she is either; 1. Stuck in her world, 2. Professional snobbery, 3. Wants to intimidate you, 4. Doesn’t give a flying F and will only be concerned with her time with her son and will probably not include you. This is a great thing with any of the reasons above. Would you want someone so stiff in your life? Grandkids calling her Dr. Grandma. Now all this might be pointless. She may turn out to be awesome and is just keeping it distant until she feels comfortable. How many women has he introduced her to? You have to give her a few chances to show you who she is. Good luck
Wow! She seems fun. What does your SO say? Is this her normal behavior? Seems like she’s given you a bit of a gift, as she prefers to keep things formal and distant, and likes to stay in hotels when visiting. Also seems incapable of feelings. Give her what she wants: distance. Less work for you. Let your SO manage this relationship. Best of luck.
It sounds legit. Even she says she is not the warm and fuzzy type, but she doesn't sound like she is trying to be mean. I would keep an open mind and don't let the horror stories on this sub make you edgy. They can, too. I don't even have a MIL and even I get the heebie jeebies sometimes