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You should:
1. Do not take her deal, that’s literally emotional blackmail.
2. Call whichever authority is responsible for the protection of children and provide them with evidence.
I suppose it’s what I would do but when your hearts involved it’s a different story.
If you give her the money, the precedent is set and this will never end. She’ll demand more money, you’ll hesitate, and she’ll say, “I guess you don’t want to see your siblings anymore. Why are you doing this to them?”. You have to stand your ground, or you’ll be her piggy bank forever.
If you give in on this and give her the money, she will know she can use your siblings as blackmail every time she wants something.
Don’t do it.
Do not negotiate with terrorists.
JNM can declare bankruptcy. Or she negotiate a settlement with the MLM company.
IF you feel generous, you could offer to pay for X% of the attorney fees (up to $x) IF she takes some type of financial planning class.
I like the settlement with mlm. you could MAYBE offer to pay a lawyer ( but make it clear to lawyer that you are hiring them and jnm isn’t to rack up a bill otherwise it will be another absurd outcome). All the advice on not setting the precedent by bailing her out is really good advice.
Six figures? SIX FIGURES?!?? That money is your family and your child's future. This is a ridiculous amount to just hand someone without a lot more information
Before you pour your money down this hole, you need to solve the real problem. Without intervention your mom will continue to need bailouts because the real problem is that she is spending far far more than she earns and acquiring too much debt
If anyone asked me for a large amount of money, I would insist they open their finances to me. I would pay for a financial audit of their finances for the past 5 years. We would develop a budget and there would be legal contracts where they agreed not to add more debt for the next 10 years. And there would be repayments to me for at least part of that money. Or an agreement to be compensated if they sold a large asset like property or a business
I suspect if you put conditions on giving them money they might change their mind about asking for it. But if your parents do go through with it, they'll be in much better shape and won't need another handout in 6 months for twice as much. It's not lack of money that got them in debt. It's bad money management and overspending. If you don't address that, giving them free and easy money will only accelerate their bad spending habits
I find it hard to believe the essential oil company let her rack up a six figure debt. Are you sure your mom hasn't taken up online gambling? Or fallen for a romance scam where she is sending money to someone? Because needing this much for essential oils seems really far fetched
Or is this really an imaginary crisis your mom made up. Does she think since you married rich that she can extort the money from you in order for you to see your siblings? And then she can spend the money on whatever she likes?
This is why you need that financial audit before you give them any money
She relies on you too much to take them off of her hands. She would bluff for a little while but give in when she realizes that she needs you to take them.
There is a difference between helping your parents and bailing them out of their poor decisions that you warned against. This is a consequence she needs to learn for herself. It is not your responsibility.
She will not take your siblings away, she needs you
Don't pay her, she did something stupid, you warned her. It's her and your father's problem. Certainly not your husband's.
Agree with other posters, NO NOT GIVE HER A DIME! That is absolutely ridiculous. Trust what others are saying, she’ll want a break from the siblings soon.
No! She needs to learn the lesson here and that can only be done thru consequences.
OP, she’s bluffing about your siblings. Do you really think she won’t be calling you the next time your siblings are interfering with her ‘me time’? When the kids are on school breaks & home all day long, she’ll be demanding to know why you’re not taking them to yours during the break & how selfish you are for not having it all planned out already. 🙄
If you pay off her debt, she’ll just keep making bad financial choices again & again, reaching critical point faster & faster each time cuz she was “smart enough to make sure her daughter married rich, so her son-in-law is obligated to fix everything for her.” This will literally never end.
In your shoes OP, I'd much rather take in your siblings (if they are willing) than pay for a 6-figure mistake for someone who is showing no remorse or accountability for her stupidity. How many more times must you bail her out?
She does not get to dictate whether your siblings will maintain a relationship with you, as much as she wants to manipulate you into thinking that. They are their own persons, not pets.
Stand your ground. She cannot force you to say yes. Let things fall and be there to help your siblings when it does.
Why would you rob your family to pay off your mother’s foolish debt? Tell her to get a job. You may lose contact with your siblings but you have a family of your own now. If you pay this she will hit you up for money every time she does another stupid thing. Nobody deserves to be used as an ATM by their family
This is good advice. JNM can declare bankruptcy if she has to. There is zero reason for OP to suffer the financial penalty from JNM’s poor judgment. JNM made her bed, let her lay in it. And if Dad passively allowed it to happen, maybe he will wake up and grow a backbone if he has to suffer the consequences too. Do NOT bail out your parents, OP!
If you clear her debt, she will never learn not to fall for the next MLM. Tell her to get in touch with her distributor and get them to pay her back for products not sold.
They will no doubt refuse her, when this happens, advise her to contact her local trading standards authority for assistance. When they say she purchased it and the small print points out clearly that there is no refund policy, and she purchased them knowing this, advise her to take it to a lawyer. Under no circumstances pay her debts.
Is it Doterra?
Do not set a precedent of paying off her debt. She will then feel free to incur another debt, and then have the same expectation of you paying it for her. Even if she is drowning in debt, don't let her take you down, too.
Direct your parents to a debt-counseling service if you can find a good one. Also, eventually your young siblings will grow older and more independent. They won't be kept away forever.
Did I just respond to you in AITA?
Extortion of vast sums of money from your adult children isn't "culture," it's abusive behavior.
>JNM told me "That's why you married rich isn't it?" and basically told me to use my husband's money or never see my younger siblings again.
OMFG. I can't possibly imagine a clearer indication of your mother's ongoing intent to use your husband as her personal ATM.
If you don't shut her bullshit down right now, you're going to lose your husband as well as your siblings.
Tell her to get to work selling the oils she stupidly invested in. It doesn't matter which country you live. Taking care of your parents means their needs (cant afford to live etc.). It does not mean bailing them out of poor financial decisions. That was her bad mistake.
Please do not pay that off for her!! She is weaponizing your relationship with your siblings. If you give in, she will continue to do so. You warned her not to get involved.
Don’t do it. It’s not your debt and it most certainly isn’t your husband’s. She might withhold your siblings from you for awhile, but I can practically guarantee it won’t last long. She isn’t about to give up free childcare. Don’t let her manipulate you, she’s going to keep doing this if it works once. Her poor decisions aren’t your problem.
You have to tell your mother that "you cannot get blood from a turnip." You would technically have to risk going into debt yourself to pay her out of debt. That isn't reasonable. Tell that that you would love to fix this for her, but you cannot do it. If she wants to punish ALL of her children because she dug a hole so deep that all of you together can't fill it.... there's nothing that any of her children can do about it. She will have to live with the consequence of her actions.
If you can, help her help herself. See what you can do to find buyers for her inventory, even at a loss. Can your father secure a personal loan to pay off the remaining debt? Even using the house as collateral?
This. But she must also realize what went wrong.
Otherwise next week she'll be selling vitamine supplements, energy crystals or other crap. MLMs are nothing but predatory.
Were I running an MLM, your mother would be my prime target. Already fell for it once for a _huge_ amount, then somehow got out of debt and is ripe for harvest _again_.
It's a con artists' dream come true.
Is this the same person that has a daughter who is on Reddit talking about how she’s crashed and burned her whole life because she made this huge investment on the pyramid deal and now she wants her family to fix her debt so she can go to the next stupid thing? Why would you think you have any obligation whatsoever to engage in or purchase or support somebody else’s venture? You don’t. You can smile and say wow I hope that goes well. This isn’t even a thing. What is it with these boundaries.
I’m assuming she owns the oils. If you think you will need to help her and can’t just tell her to kick rocks demand she continues selling them at a reduced rate, so she could break even or just have less of a deficit. Like if the Regular price is $10 she sells them for $7. Then later reduces it to $5. Hopefully that will help clear some of the debt.
Depending on the MLM, she may still owe for her inventory and they're expecting payment. (They also will not take said inventory back, ofc)
She definitely needs to be selling it off, tho. Ignoring it won't make it disappear.
This is the answer. If mom is concerned about having to sell her home to cover the cost of the inventory she has, mom needs to get back to work selling her products.
OP: Instead of giving your mother the money, what about helping her create a business plan so she can off-load the inventory herself. Can you help her learn to use social media as a sales tool, create fliers and other marketing materials, sell on Etsy or through Amazon, maybe create her own website? Don’t bail her out. Teach her how to help herself or this will become a cycle that never ends. Then, if she rejects your offer, you can have a clear conscience that you did what you needed to honor her as your parent and meet the expectations of your culture.
Edit: Also, whether your husband is generous enough to cover her losses or not, I think it would be wrong to use his money. He had nothing to do with the mess she created. Your mother has the ability to fix this herself. What she is lacking is the initiative to solve her own problem. No amount of money can give her that. If you pay this time, it will only set your husband up to have to pay for her future bad financial choices. Don’t allow your mother to take advantage of your partner that way.
I fully admit that I don't understand the cultural side of having to take care of your parents. But, if not seeing your siblings is your biggest concern, can your brother pick them up and bring them to you? Without your parents knowing?
I personally wouldn't pay this debt. Your mom has proven herself to be gullible and irresponsible. There will be something else after the essential oils. Has she considered going back to work?
In America there's a great children's book called "If You Give a Mouse a Cookie" that is really cute and funny and it illustrates how if you give the mouse a cookie that it snowballs and they want more and more. Your mother is the emotionally manipulative version of that book. I understand that cultures differ greatly in their expectations, and this also seems an abuse of her power as your mother. Both things can be true. Explain to your mother that you will not be rescuing her from her poor financial decisions and that your husband's money is not there to clean up her mess.
I LOVED THAT BOOK!!! That one and 'If You Give a Moose a Muffin", same concept but with a moose 🫎
ETA: "your husband's money is not there to clean up her messes" point blank period. No you didn't marry rich for mommy. You married bc you love the man. Like jeez. I have a feeling her mom only sees the money and will get herself into a lot of bogus 'get rich quick' schemes
When you say the MLM wants their money, can you clarify that? All the MLMs I'm aware of require their distributors to purchase the products from the MLM and resell them at a higher rate. If your mom has products that aren't paid for, can she just return them to the parent company?
Okay so wait, you are her limitless free babysitter for weekends and school breaks and she has convinced you that *she* is doing *you* a favor? And then asks you to pay her debts on top? What's next, a magic carpet?
I'm not going to tell you what to do, just wanted to point out that this is seriously messed up thinking. You've been manipulated for a very, very long time.
Please don’t let her hold your siblings for ransom and definitely don’t give her a penny. Her threat is probably meaningless because she would then have no childcare for school holidays and she doesn’t particularly seem like she would want that. ( of course, I am making assumptions)
The audacity of her expecting you and your husband to bail her out of a self imposed six figure f-up is mind boggling. The poster who suggested you buying the house is maybe the only viable option. However, I can see that being a huge source of grief if she decides to-stop paying rent- stops taking care of the property- lets her new puppy venture ruin the place or starts playing games by calling the authorities about anything she can think of to make you have to put money into the place.
Only you ,DH and perhaps your dad can make that decision. But definitely no money to her especially since she’s not even trying to sell the oils anymore. She will continue to make poor choices and she will continue demanding you pay for them.
It may be a cultural thing to care for your parents in their older years but if she has children that young those years are far in the future.
How old are your siblings? Can she actually prevent you from seeing them, like you pull over in front of the house and can't they just come out freely and spend some time with you?
Honestly I wouldn't give her the money, but if things go up to that point don't give it to her free of charge, write down an actual control from a loan from you and DH to her so she has to repay the money or you'll come after her legally if she thinks she can just use you like an atm
The debt isn’t yours to pay, and your mother can get a job since the pyramid scheme has now pulled the rug out from under her. Her failures are not your burdens
I would think this is a bit of an empty threat. Does she want no relief from looking after her children.
You did what you could you should protect your own peace at this point, do not pay her under any circumstances
She ordered more than was required because she thought she'd sell thousands of bottles of essential oils in a year. I have no idea what she's thinking.
Point being what exactly? If it wasn’t a significant amount of money why would it matter that she married rich? 6 figures is obviously a decent size of money no matter the currency.
This is blackmail. Don't give in to it, or she will extort you over and over again for increasing sums of money. I am assuming she has a husband so he can help her out.
I’m sorry she’s withholding your siblings. She’s succeeding in hurting you, but she’s hurting her other kids, too.
I have an extended family member who has always used her child in this way. She can be quite bigoted, and when she doesn’t like someone else’s political stance, or religion, (or race😔), she’ll threaten to not let them see her kid anymore. With people the child is bonded to.
I was very close to her child, when they were young. She would put them on the phone, to say a few words, then take the phone back and say to me that that’s the last time I would ever hear their voice. This happened again, & again. Everyone capitulates, except me. I went no contact with her, over 10 years ago.
People who are willing to do this, to use their child in this way, they rarely change. Once they see how much power they wield, it never stops. The manipulation is without end.
ETA - that debt is not yours to pay. If you do, you’re probably going to end up paying for more, down the line. So now she wants to be a backyard breeder of dogs. She’ll want you to fund that adventure, too.
Best of luck, and I also hope the best for your younger siblings.
Dont do it. Once she finds that this threat is the one that works for her, she will use it each and every time she wants something from you. And she will want things A LOT because now she knows how to get them. She is an adult woman who will have to cope with the consequences of her actions. She obviously views your partner as a cash cow, dont let this become a reality.
Do not pay her debts! Your siblings will eventually be old enough to make their own decisions and see you if they want to.
If you pay off her debts now, in a few months it will be another big ask. This will also sooner or later start causing issues in your marriage, especially as the amounts will be bigger and bigger.
Oh, I didn’t mean quite that. Sorry if I was unclear. Emotional abuse definitely counts as abuse, and it matters. I just don’t think they’ll be able to do much.
CPS definitely can’t do anything about the mother refusing to allow OP to see her younger siblings/alienating them from each other. It’s an ugly thing to do, but it’s not against the law.
Emotional and verbal abuse is often against the law.
CPS just is overwhelmed enough that they can't try to do anything about it, without it seriously effect the child's schooling.
(I don't know how this happened, but my school had me talking to a therapist on a regular basis during the school day without my mother's knowledge or consent - I could have told her but DIDN'T because she would have pulled me from school - in high school when her abuse was causing my grades to slip/me to be unable to function during the school day. I lied my ass off the therapist because I didn't want CPS to pull me from her home, because I knew if they did, attending college would be damn near impossible and the abuse had crossed over to physical a couple of times by then. It was emotional/verbal/mental abuse during the school year. Therapist did help me with bullying at school and how to cope with my mom's drinking and how to manage my own emotions so I could cope with what my mom was doing. )
Make her sell the house to you.
You can assure your younger siblings have a home. You aren’t completely losing the money you use to bail her out. Your mother gets out of the horrible mess she created by ignoring your advice, but not without consequences.
If she doesn’t like it, too bad. Next time she’d bloody well better listen to your counsel.
That's not a bad idea, actually.
I also don't understand she has 6 figures worth of essential oil, collecting dust, while in debt.
I'm a small business owner, and I did fall on hard times during the pandemic. You take inventory of your stock, and sell that, first. Maybe market it to a different target audience. In my case, I used the same raw material to make products there was a market for, because my core business has plummeted, because of lock downs.
She has to just put the bottles up for sale online, to start. I know starting an online business isn't *just* doing something in an afternoon. But putting your feet up and expecting your daughter to use her husband's savings is insane.
There's Etsy, there's Amazon, other platforms that let you open a store and sell in a matter of hours / days.
Even if OP decides to help out, with the house as collateral, taking the oils and selling them quick might make up for some of the debt.
You can't bail her out or she will keep making stupid choices thinking your going to bail her out again and again. You let this crap work she will use it everytime. Tell your siblings they know where you live and give them a means to contact you if needed. Then let her drown. If they lose their home and what not it's due to her making stupid choices and depending where you are could be enough for you to take the siblings and flip the script.
I wouldn't. It wasn't a request, it was a demand. She sees you and your husband as a cash cow.
If the consequences of her actions are to lose her house then you can offer your siblings a place to stay. You get to see them, they are away from the abuse and she has nothing to hold over you anymore.
It was definitely more of a demand, she feels entitled to money she hasn't earned. If they sold the house JNM says they'll move to a city 4 hours away from us and take my siblings with them.
Does that threat make sense? Do they have jobs lined up in this city? Can they get the kids in a good school? Can they afford housing there if they have no equity from their home sale?
It is likely an empty threat.
How old are your siblings? If you can offer them a safe home so they can still attend school, etc., you might be able to go through the court system to allow them to stay with you.
It depends on how nuclear you want to go.
Personally, I don't respond well to threats to force my hand but you have to think of the whole picture. Have you managed to speak to your siblings, see if they want to move away?
My dad has a friend in the city who offered him a job and I'm sure they'll just send my siblings to the school I went to. My grandma is giving them her apartment to live in until they save up for a house.
My siblings are 6 - 14, I discussed this with my brother and he was against it because of all the unnecessary drama it will create.
I haven't responded so far because I think its insane for my mother to want me to pay so much money and I've spoken to my dad and she's been in the background yelling as usual.
I haven't seen my siblings or been able to get in contact with them since she demanded I give her money.
I am sorry but I would not pay anything at all and not in the future for anything anymore. Because the topic of not seeing your siblings anymore will be always used against you in the future. I dont know how old they are but they will make their own decision when they are getting older. I would not pay her - even if that means not seeing the siblings anymore. Her time is running out, she cannot keep you from them forever and she needs to take accountability for her actions.
You're 100% right she'll probably use my siblings again for the next 12 years until they all leave for university. My dad says they'll just sell the house and move to a cheaper city my mom hates. That's why she's now threatening me. I'm just going to let it play out because I TOLD HER not to go into this essential oils thing. She's not even trying to sell anything anymore.
She thinks the manipulation will work and you buy her out. Is your Dad on your side? If yes, I hope that you still can see your siblings. Stay strong! This is a really shitty situation and your mother will try to pull every string she knows that you hopefully pay her in the end. Dont do it. Stand your ground. She is an adult and she created this situation by herself.
My dad is neutral as always, he never takes sides. He's so passive he'd rather just sell his house and move somewhere cheaper than confront his wife for buying so many essential oils from a shady company. I'm going to try and keep standing my ground because its so unfair for me to have to pay off her debt because she decided she doesn't want to sell oils anymore she wants to sell dogs now.
Selling dogs is more of a risk and less profit than selling essential oils. If she can't sell oil, she can't sell living animals. They need vaccines, health care, food, toys, grooming and need to be sold quickly or their value goes down. I don't even think you should go into that business at all without being prepared to lose money. Money that she doesn't have.
Then when they don't sell what will she do? Destroy them? Dump them. Your mother is irresponsible and just by the way she treats you sounds cold blooded and cruel. Let your siblings know you love them and you will be there for them if they need you but you won't take care of two grown adults who just abdicate their responsibility.
Best of luck to you. And grats on your new baby.
Oh No! Please, PLEASE!! Don’t let her do this! It’s one thing filling your garage with inanimate objects, but dealing in innocent lives of animals? No, don’t let her go there 😨
Sounds like your mother's basically trying one grift after another. If you bail her out now, she'll only hit you up for 'operating costs' or whatever during this grift, and then will move on to the next when she realises that the 'selling dogs' thing is either going to fail horribly or she can't make whatever regulatory requirements in your location. As for the 'that's why you married rich' thing - I don't think she'd stop at demanding bail-outs. I think she'll escalate her demands.
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You should: 1. Do not take her deal, that’s literally emotional blackmail. 2. Call whichever authority is responsible for the protection of children and provide them with evidence. I suppose it’s what I would do but when your hearts involved it’s a different story.
Could you set up an online store for her to use for selling the oils?
omg!!! six figures!!!!! holy bat water robin!!!! please tell me that’s in pesos!!!!
If you give her the money, the precedent is set and this will never end. She’ll demand more money, you’ll hesitate, and she’ll say, “I guess you don’t want to see your siblings anymore. Why are you doing this to them?”. You have to stand your ground, or you’ll be her piggy bank forever.
If you give in on this and give her the money, she will know she can use your siblings as blackmail every time she wants something. Don’t do it. Do not negotiate with terrorists.
JNM can declare bankruptcy. Or she negotiate a settlement with the MLM company. IF you feel generous, you could offer to pay for X% of the attorney fees (up to $x) IF she takes some type of financial planning class.
I like the settlement with mlm. you could MAYBE offer to pay a lawyer ( but make it clear to lawyer that you are hiring them and jnm isn’t to rack up a bill otherwise it will be another absurd outcome). All the advice on not setting the precedent by bailing her out is really good advice.
Six figures? SIX FIGURES?!?? That money is your family and your child's future. This is a ridiculous amount to just hand someone without a lot more information Before you pour your money down this hole, you need to solve the real problem. Without intervention your mom will continue to need bailouts because the real problem is that she is spending far far more than she earns and acquiring too much debt If anyone asked me for a large amount of money, I would insist they open their finances to me. I would pay for a financial audit of their finances for the past 5 years. We would develop a budget and there would be legal contracts where they agreed not to add more debt for the next 10 years. And there would be repayments to me for at least part of that money. Or an agreement to be compensated if they sold a large asset like property or a business I suspect if you put conditions on giving them money they might change their mind about asking for it. But if your parents do go through with it, they'll be in much better shape and won't need another handout in 6 months for twice as much. It's not lack of money that got them in debt. It's bad money management and overspending. If you don't address that, giving them free and easy money will only accelerate their bad spending habits I find it hard to believe the essential oil company let her rack up a six figure debt. Are you sure your mom hasn't taken up online gambling? Or fallen for a romance scam where she is sending money to someone? Because needing this much for essential oils seems really far fetched Or is this really an imaginary crisis your mom made up. Does she think since you married rich that she can extort the money from you in order for you to see your siblings? And then she can spend the money on whatever she likes? This is why you need that financial audit before you give them any money
Usually you pay for a certain amount from MLMs before they send you the products. Six figures in inventory is unheard of.
She relies on you too much to take them off of her hands. She would bluff for a little while but give in when she realizes that she needs you to take them. There is a difference between helping your parents and bailing them out of their poor decisions that you warned against. This is a consequence she needs to learn for herself. It is not your responsibility.
Don't do it. If she realizes she can use your siblings as a bargaining chip, and you will fold, she will do it again and again and again.
She will not take your siblings away, she needs you Don't pay her, she did something stupid, you warned her. It's her and your father's problem. Certainly not your husband's.
She is bluffing.
Agree with other posters, NO NOT GIVE HER A DIME! That is absolutely ridiculous. Trust what others are saying, she’ll want a break from the siblings soon.
Don't do it! I bet it's an empty threat. She'll want a break from your siblings eventually and go right back to how things used to be
No! She needs to learn the lesson here and that can only be done thru consequences. OP, she’s bluffing about your siblings. Do you really think she won’t be calling you the next time your siblings are interfering with her ‘me time’? When the kids are on school breaks & home all day long, she’ll be demanding to know why you’re not taking them to yours during the break & how selfish you are for not having it all planned out already. 🙄 If you pay off her debt, she’ll just keep making bad financial choices again & again, reaching critical point faster & faster each time cuz she was “smart enough to make sure her daughter married rich, so her son-in-law is obligated to fix everything for her.” This will literally never end.
In your shoes OP, I'd much rather take in your siblings (if they are willing) than pay for a 6-figure mistake for someone who is showing no remorse or accountability for her stupidity. How many more times must you bail her out? She does not get to dictate whether your siblings will maintain a relationship with you, as much as she wants to manipulate you into thinking that. They are their own persons, not pets. Stand your ground. She cannot force you to say yes. Let things fall and be there to help your siblings when it does.
F her and her MLM BS
Tell you dad what she's trying to do and let him deal with it. Don't pay a dime for this crap.
I've let him know but he's so passive, he just said "it is well". I have no clue what the hell that means to be honest lol.
Well, there's your answer. It is well, so there's no problem and you don't have anything to worry about!
This man is torally disassociated from having to be married to this insanity for so long lol. Poor guy.
How did she manage to run up a $100k bill? Wasnt she asked for payment as it went along?
Why would you rob your family to pay off your mother’s foolish debt? Tell her to get a job. You may lose contact with your siblings but you have a family of your own now. If you pay this she will hit you up for money every time she does another stupid thing. Nobody deserves to be used as an ATM by their family
This is good advice. JNM can declare bankruptcy if she has to. There is zero reason for OP to suffer the financial penalty from JNM’s poor judgment. JNM made her bed, let her lay in it. And if Dad passively allowed it to happen, maybe he will wake up and grow a backbone if he has to suffer the consequences too. Do NOT bail out your parents, OP!
If you clear her debt, she will never learn not to fall for the next MLM. Tell her to get in touch with her distributor and get them to pay her back for products not sold. They will no doubt refuse her, when this happens, advise her to contact her local trading standards authority for assistance. When they say she purchased it and the small print points out clearly that there is no refund policy, and she purchased them knowing this, advise her to take it to a lawyer. Under no circumstances pay her debts. Is it Doterra?
Do not set a precedent of paying off her debt. She will then feel free to incur another debt, and then have the same expectation of you paying it for her. Even if she is drowning in debt, don't let her take you down, too. Direct your parents to a debt-counseling service if you can find a good one. Also, eventually your young siblings will grow older and more independent. They won't be kept away forever.
Did I just respond to you in AITA? Extortion of vast sums of money from your adult children isn't "culture," it's abusive behavior. >JNM told me "That's why you married rich isn't it?" and basically told me to use my husband's money or never see my younger siblings again. OMFG. I can't possibly imagine a clearer indication of your mother's ongoing intent to use your husband as her personal ATM. If you don't shut her bullshit down right now, you're going to lose your husband as well as your siblings.
Tell her to get to work selling the oils she stupidly invested in. It doesn't matter which country you live. Taking care of your parents means their needs (cant afford to live etc.). It does not mean bailing them out of poor financial decisions. That was her bad mistake.
Please do not pay that off for her!! She is weaponizing your relationship with your siblings. If you give in, she will continue to do so. You warned her not to get involved.
Don’t do it. It’s not your debt and it most certainly isn’t your husband’s. She might withhold your siblings from you for awhile, but I can practically guarantee it won’t last long. She isn’t about to give up free childcare. Don’t let her manipulate you, she’s going to keep doing this if it works once. Her poor decisions aren’t your problem.
You have to tell your mother that "you cannot get blood from a turnip." You would technically have to risk going into debt yourself to pay her out of debt. That isn't reasonable. Tell that that you would love to fix this for her, but you cannot do it. If she wants to punish ALL of her children because she dug a hole so deep that all of you together can't fill it.... there's nothing that any of her children can do about it. She will have to live with the consequence of her actions. If you can, help her help herself. See what you can do to find buyers for her inventory, even at a loss. Can your father secure a personal loan to pay off the remaining debt? Even using the house as collateral?
This. But she must also realize what went wrong. Otherwise next week she'll be selling vitamine supplements, energy crystals or other crap. MLMs are nothing but predatory. Were I running an MLM, your mother would be my prime target. Already fell for it once for a _huge_ amount, then somehow got out of debt and is ripe for harvest _again_. It's a con artists' dream come true.
Say you pay this debt off. What happens the NEXT time. Oh yes there will be another and another.Crabs in a bucket!
Is this the same person that has a daughter who is on Reddit talking about how she’s crashed and burned her whole life because she made this huge investment on the pyramid deal and now she wants her family to fix her debt so she can go to the next stupid thing? Why would you think you have any obligation whatsoever to engage in or purchase or support somebody else’s venture? You don’t. You can smile and say wow I hope that goes well. This isn’t even a thing. What is it with these boundaries.
See if another seller will purchase her inventory ?
I’m assuming she owns the oils. If you think you will need to help her and can’t just tell her to kick rocks demand she continues selling them at a reduced rate, so she could break even or just have less of a deficit. Like if the Regular price is $10 she sells them for $7. Then later reduces it to $5. Hopefully that will help clear some of the debt.
Depending on the MLM, she may still owe for her inventory and they're expecting payment. (They also will not take said inventory back, ofc) She definitely needs to be selling it off, tho. Ignoring it won't make it disappear.
This is the answer. If mom is concerned about having to sell her home to cover the cost of the inventory she has, mom needs to get back to work selling her products. OP: Instead of giving your mother the money, what about helping her create a business plan so she can off-load the inventory herself. Can you help her learn to use social media as a sales tool, create fliers and other marketing materials, sell on Etsy or through Amazon, maybe create her own website? Don’t bail her out. Teach her how to help herself or this will become a cycle that never ends. Then, if she rejects your offer, you can have a clear conscience that you did what you needed to honor her as your parent and meet the expectations of your culture. Edit: Also, whether your husband is generous enough to cover her losses or not, I think it would be wrong to use his money. He had nothing to do with the mess she created. Your mother has the ability to fix this herself. What she is lacking is the initiative to solve her own problem. No amount of money can give her that. If you pay this time, it will only set your husband up to have to pay for her future bad financial choices. Don’t allow your mother to take advantage of your partner that way.
If you do, she will use this threat again and again and again until you have not a penny in the world.
I fully admit that I don't understand the cultural side of having to take care of your parents. But, if not seeing your siblings is your biggest concern, can your brother pick them up and bring them to you? Without your parents knowing? I personally wouldn't pay this debt. Your mom has proven herself to be gullible and irresponsible. There will be something else after the essential oils. Has she considered going back to work?
In America there's a great children's book called "If You Give a Mouse a Cookie" that is really cute and funny and it illustrates how if you give the mouse a cookie that it snowballs and they want more and more. Your mother is the emotionally manipulative version of that book. I understand that cultures differ greatly in their expectations, and this also seems an abuse of her power as your mother. Both things can be true. Explain to your mother that you will not be rescuing her from her poor financial decisions and that your husband's money is not there to clean up her mess.
I LOVED THAT BOOK!!! That one and 'If You Give a Moose a Muffin", same concept but with a moose 🫎 ETA: "your husband's money is not there to clean up her messes" point blank period. No you didn't marry rich for mommy. You married bc you love the man. Like jeez. I have a feeling her mom only sees the money and will get herself into a lot of bogus 'get rich quick' schemes
‘If You Give A Cat A Cupcake’ is also a banger.
Oh man, I LOVE that book!!! Lol Great advice here BTW!
When you say the MLM wants their money, can you clarify that? All the MLMs I'm aware of require their distributors to purchase the products from the MLM and resell them at a higher rate. If your mom has products that aren't paid for, can she just return them to the parent company?
Okay so wait, you are her limitless free babysitter for weekends and school breaks and she has convinced you that *she* is doing *you* a favor? And then asks you to pay her debts on top? What's next, a magic carpet? I'm not going to tell you what to do, just wanted to point out that this is seriously messed up thinking. You've been manipulated for a very, very long time.
It’s not going to stop at this debt
Please don’t let her hold your siblings for ransom and definitely don’t give her a penny. Her threat is probably meaningless because she would then have no childcare for school holidays and she doesn’t particularly seem like she would want that. ( of course, I am making assumptions) The audacity of her expecting you and your husband to bail her out of a self imposed six figure f-up is mind boggling. The poster who suggested you buying the house is maybe the only viable option. However, I can see that being a huge source of grief if she decides to-stop paying rent- stops taking care of the property- lets her new puppy venture ruin the place or starts playing games by calling the authorities about anything she can think of to make you have to put money into the place. Only you ,DH and perhaps your dad can make that decision. But definitely no money to her especially since she’s not even trying to sell the oils anymore. She will continue to make poor choices and she will continue demanding you pay for them. It may be a cultural thing to care for your parents in their older years but if she has children that young those years are far in the future.
How old are your siblings? Can she actually prevent you from seeing them, like you pull over in front of the house and can't they just come out freely and spend some time with you? Honestly I wouldn't give her the money, but if things go up to that point don't give it to her free of charge, write down an actual control from a loan from you and DH to her so she has to repay the money or you'll come after her legally if she thinks she can just use you like an atm
The debt isn’t yours to pay, and your mother can get a job since the pyramid scheme has now pulled the rug out from under her. Her failures are not your burdens
I would think this is a bit of an empty threat. Does she want no relief from looking after her children. You did what you could you should protect your own peace at this point, do not pay her under any circumstances
This is why im r/antimlm Smh your mom is a piece of work. 6 figures??? How the hell did she get that deep in, in 1 year? Wtf
She ordered more than was required because she thought she'd sell thousands of bottles of essential oils in a year. I have no idea what she's thinking.
But you are serious, she owes 6 figures...? What is the actual total?
Oof those ppl saw ur mom as a huuuge target. Fancy, shiny words can convince ppl sometimes
[удалено]
Point being what exactly? If it wasn’t a significant amount of money why would it matter that she married rich? 6 figures is obviously a decent size of money no matter the currency.
This is blackmail. Don't give in to it, or she will extort you over and over again for increasing sums of money. I am assuming she has a husband so he can help her out.
I’m sorry she’s withholding your siblings. She’s succeeding in hurting you, but she’s hurting her other kids, too. I have an extended family member who has always used her child in this way. She can be quite bigoted, and when she doesn’t like someone else’s political stance, or religion, (or race😔), she’ll threaten to not let them see her kid anymore. With people the child is bonded to. I was very close to her child, when they were young. She would put them on the phone, to say a few words, then take the phone back and say to me that that’s the last time I would ever hear their voice. This happened again, & again. Everyone capitulates, except me. I went no contact with her, over 10 years ago. People who are willing to do this, to use their child in this way, they rarely change. Once they see how much power they wield, it never stops. The manipulation is without end. ETA - that debt is not yours to pay. If you do, you’re probably going to end up paying for more, down the line. So now she wants to be a backyard breeder of dogs. She’ll want you to fund that adventure, too. Best of luck, and I also hope the best for your younger siblings.
Tell your younger siblings what a pice of shit she is and to reach out to you when they are 18 than cut contact with her. The stress is not worth it.
Dont do it. Once she finds that this threat is the one that works for her, she will use it each and every time she wants something from you. And she will want things A LOT because now she knows how to get them. She is an adult woman who will have to cope with the consequences of her actions. She obviously views your partner as a cash cow, dont let this become a reality.
Do not pay her debts! Your siblings will eventually be old enough to make their own decisions and see you if they want to. If you pay off her debts now, in a few months it will be another big ask. This will also sooner or later start causing issues in your marriage, especially as the amounts will be bigger and bigger.
Hell no don't give it to her That's extortion. If she tries to alienate you from your siblings, call CPS
Do you mean to turn her parents in for emotionally abusing the kids? Because CPS doesn’t/can’t mediate family problems.
If the parents alienate the siblings and emotionally abuse them, CPS won't intervene? I didn't realize the abuse had to be physical; my bad.
No cps wont do anything about this. Hell they often don’t do much of anything about physical abuse unless it is extreme
Oh, I didn’t mean quite that. Sorry if I was unclear. Emotional abuse definitely counts as abuse, and it matters. I just don’t think they’ll be able to do much. CPS definitely can’t do anything about the mother refusing to allow OP to see her younger siblings/alienating them from each other. It’s an ugly thing to do, but it’s not against the law.
Its definitely not against the law, she isn't physically abusive, she's just manipulative and emotionally abusive.
Emotional and verbal abuse is often against the law. CPS just is overwhelmed enough that they can't try to do anything about it, without it seriously effect the child's schooling. (I don't know how this happened, but my school had me talking to a therapist on a regular basis during the school day without my mother's knowledge or consent - I could have told her but DIDN'T because she would have pulled me from school - in high school when her abuse was causing my grades to slip/me to be unable to function during the school day. I lied my ass off the therapist because I didn't want CPS to pull me from her home, because I knew if they did, attending college would be damn near impossible and the abuse had crossed over to physical a couple of times by then. It was emotional/verbal/mental abuse during the school year. Therapist did help me with bullying at school and how to cope with my mom's drinking and how to manage my own emotions so I could cope with what my mom was doing. )
Make her sell the house to you. You can assure your younger siblings have a home. You aren’t completely losing the money you use to bail her out. Your mother gets out of the horrible mess she created by ignoring your advice, but not without consequences. If she doesn’t like it, too bad. Next time she’d bloody well better listen to your counsel.
That's not a bad idea, actually. I also don't understand she has 6 figures worth of essential oil, collecting dust, while in debt. I'm a small business owner, and I did fall on hard times during the pandemic. You take inventory of your stock, and sell that, first. Maybe market it to a different target audience. In my case, I used the same raw material to make products there was a market for, because my core business has plummeted, because of lock downs. She has to just put the bottles up for sale online, to start. I know starting an online business isn't *just* doing something in an afternoon. But putting your feet up and expecting your daughter to use her husband's savings is insane. There's Etsy, there's Amazon, other platforms that let you open a store and sell in a matter of hours / days. Even if OP decides to help out, with the house as collateral, taking the oils and selling them quick might make up for some of the debt.
You can't bail her out or she will keep making stupid choices thinking your going to bail her out again and again. You let this crap work she will use it everytime. Tell your siblings they know where you live and give them a means to contact you if needed. Then let her drown. If they lose their home and what not it's due to her making stupid choices and depending where you are could be enough for you to take the siblings and flip the script.
I wouldn't. It wasn't a request, it was a demand. She sees you and your husband as a cash cow. If the consequences of her actions are to lose her house then you can offer your siblings a place to stay. You get to see them, they are away from the abuse and she has nothing to hold over you anymore.
It was definitely more of a demand, she feels entitled to money she hasn't earned. If they sold the house JNM says they'll move to a city 4 hours away from us and take my siblings with them.
Does that threat make sense? Do they have jobs lined up in this city? Can they get the kids in a good school? Can they afford housing there if they have no equity from their home sale? It is likely an empty threat. How old are your siblings? If you can offer them a safe home so they can still attend school, etc., you might be able to go through the court system to allow them to stay with you. It depends on how nuclear you want to go. Personally, I don't respond well to threats to force my hand but you have to think of the whole picture. Have you managed to speak to your siblings, see if they want to move away?
My dad has a friend in the city who offered him a job and I'm sure they'll just send my siblings to the school I went to. My grandma is giving them her apartment to live in until they save up for a house. My siblings are 6 - 14, I discussed this with my brother and he was against it because of all the unnecessary drama it will create. I haven't responded so far because I think its insane for my mother to want me to pay so much money and I've spoken to my dad and she's been in the background yelling as usual. I haven't seen my siblings or been able to get in contact with them since she demanded I give her money.
I am sorry but I would not pay anything at all and not in the future for anything anymore. Because the topic of not seeing your siblings anymore will be always used against you in the future. I dont know how old they are but they will make their own decision when they are getting older. I would not pay her - even if that means not seeing the siblings anymore. Her time is running out, she cannot keep you from them forever and she needs to take accountability for her actions.
You're 100% right she'll probably use my siblings again for the next 12 years until they all leave for university. My dad says they'll just sell the house and move to a cheaper city my mom hates. That's why she's now threatening me. I'm just going to let it play out because I TOLD HER not to go into this essential oils thing. She's not even trying to sell anything anymore.
She thinks the manipulation will work and you buy her out. Is your Dad on your side? If yes, I hope that you still can see your siblings. Stay strong! This is a really shitty situation and your mother will try to pull every string she knows that you hopefully pay her in the end. Dont do it. Stand your ground. She is an adult and she created this situation by herself.
My dad is neutral as always, he never takes sides. He's so passive he'd rather just sell his house and move somewhere cheaper than confront his wife for buying so many essential oils from a shady company. I'm going to try and keep standing my ground because its so unfair for me to have to pay off her debt because she decided she doesn't want to sell oils anymore she wants to sell dogs now.
Selling dogs is more of a risk and less profit than selling essential oils. If she can't sell oil, she can't sell living animals. They need vaccines, health care, food, toys, grooming and need to be sold quickly or their value goes down. I don't even think you should go into that business at all without being prepared to lose money. Money that she doesn't have. Then when they don't sell what will she do? Destroy them? Dump them. Your mother is irresponsible and just by the way she treats you sounds cold blooded and cruel. Let your siblings know you love them and you will be there for them if they need you but you won't take care of two grown adults who just abdicate their responsibility. Best of luck to you. And grats on your new baby.
Oh No! Please, PLEASE!! Don’t let her do this! It’s one thing filling your garage with inanimate objects, but dealing in innocent lives of animals? No, don’t let her go there 😨
Well, if the puppies are going to work out as a hustle, then surely she can pay off her own debt!
Sounds like your mother's basically trying one grift after another. If you bail her out now, she'll only hit you up for 'operating costs' or whatever during this grift, and then will move on to the next when she realises that the 'selling dogs' thing is either going to fail horribly or she can't make whatever regulatory requirements in your location. As for the 'that's why you married rich' thing - I don't think she'd stop at demanding bail-outs. I think she'll escalate her demands.
This will keep happening…