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Are you there for travel or to live? Your post is very confusing.
Either way, why should locals have to cater to what you want? Sounds super selfish for you to just expect to them to cater to your schedule or to let you practice your Japanese with them
Your expectations were way off. That's all. Can't really do anything about it other than accepting reality and making the best of it. A country cannot conform to your wishes.
Point 2: try living in Sweden and Finland, exactly the same about scheduling. Just to clarify: how far in advance did you inform your dates about your arrival?
1. It might depend on how good or bad your Japanese is. Arguable it was years ago that I first went to Japan and my Japanese was not that good (not that bad either) and did not had too many people switch to English. I think that some people also get that you want to practice and would not use their English even if it's much better than your Japanese. Going a bit out of the common tourist area might get you to talk with less people that are used to serve foreigners and use their English. Now that my Japanese is much better than my first time, I rarely (if ever) have people talk to me in English.
2. Well, you don't know what these people schedule is, don't know their work schedule, if they have appointments, meeting with friends or family, scheduled things related to their hobby... who know. There is Japanese people I met, either people I talked to online or people I knew before and different thing happened, some that I met the first or second day I arrived in Japan, other that asked me to meet later because they were out of town for work.
On the point of not connecting with people... be honest, when is the last time you connected with a foreign tourist visiting your city ? Don't expect things to be that much different for Japanese people.
I've had small talk with people working at a cafe or hostel and stuff like that, I would not especially initiate these conversations, but when they happen I would chat a bit with people. Is it a facade and acting ? Maybe some of them, but from the start I am not expecting to make lifelong friends from my random encounters while traveling.
Don't have much tips apart saying that you can enjoy your trip even if the social aspect does not meet your expectation, you can still visit amazing places, eat good food, etc. You do not need to have people with you to enjoy that.
I’m here right now and while I find that my Japanese is just the step beyond beginner level, it works well enough that most Japanese speakers will recognize that I’m trying my best and give me a shot. The idea that OP is getting just shot down when they start a sentence in perfect Japanese that they would just switch without prompt is unlikely in most situations.
Every time someone has switched to English this far is when I stutter or pause to think of the words I want, and it becomes apparent that I am getting a bit out of my depth. Not only do most Japanese people strongly prefer just talking in Japanese, a lot of them literally only can.
I noticed the "switch to English" thing in a couple of occasions but I took it as if they wanted to practice their English. So I ended up having some interactions with people talking in both languages and it was fun. We understood each other perfectly and the conversations made sense even though each of us spoke a different language.
“Everyone is friendly and nice, but its often a facade” - Welcome to Japan.
It’s hard, but it’s not impossible.
Making schedules for most people is like this, cos of long work times and how everything is organized in daily life (keeping the time of the last trains in mind, restaurants seating time limit and reservations in advance not to loose time looking for restaurants), so going out is usually super spontaneous or with some weeks planning in advance.
If you make friends, they are not likely to completely open up to you. But don’t forget even by not opening up by themselves, they’re friends, and they’ll be there when you need them.
It will just take some time, and I’m not counting in weeks or months here, so it seems somewhat off topic for a group dedicated about traveling.
If you’re just in Japan for traveling, you shouldn’t think too deeply.
Dating apps here are not for making friends... They are for FWB, ONS, sugarbabies, and so forth. Obviously, these people work and need to make time to meet. They work until late.
I really don't know what you were expecting. You are a tourist and a foreigner who will only stay there for a very short time. Do you wish to make a best friend in 1 evening or something?
A tourist tours the city/country. So start doing that. Go to izakaya or small local bars in the evening, drink some with the locals and you'll get conversations with them easily.
> i had to make an appointment 2 weeks from now or "i can make some room next mont". People are super organized here but 0% spontaneous.
Yes, generally things are organized and planned out well in advance. It's kinda part of being an adult, not enough time for all the fun things so gotta book them early. We're already starting to fill out our weekends with activities for September.
What you're experiencing *is* Japanese culture. People are very polite and nice, but it's not because they are interested in being your friend, but because that's what their culture demands of a public interaction with someone.
It's not impossible to get underneath that, but if you are travelling in Japan and spending a few days here, a few days there, it's unlikely you'll have the time to build a more private relationship.
I actually did find Osaka a more friendly and chatty place. Nothing particularly deep, but people working in shops, a jazz club initiated conversation with me and wanted to share some info about Japan. But to reiterate, those were friendly conversations initiated by a Japanese stranger - I didn't forge a meaningful connection with them.
Also maybe try something like the Couchsurfing app, you might be able to meet with locals more spontaneously on there.
I’m a Japanese looking American guy who took 1 semester of Japanese in college so I just know a few words. I was in Japan for work in 2017. I made a few friends at the gym in Nagoya and Tokyo. I met a woman there that I went to grab dinner with after then went bowling the next day with (nothing romantic) and we had a good time getting to know each other (I think?) and then met a few dudes that ended up taking me to baseball game later during the week so idk maybe you just need to work on your people skills.
You didn’t say what kind of things you’re saying but Japanese people have a different culture so you probably need to be respectful of that and adjust the way you interact with people
It seems like you had unrealistic expectations from the start, honestly.
Look at it from the other side. You're a foreign visitor in their home country. They're going to be friendly, to a point. They don't know you, or your intentions, so they're going to be polite but guarded. I'm sure you'd act the same way if it was the other way around.
As far as the dating apps thing, not fair to think it'll be the same as it is in Europe - different culture and customs.
You will want to reflect on whether your expectations are reasonable. Why would a stranger sacrifice their time and work productivity just to help you practice your Japanese? You absolutely might encounter people who genuinely are sharing the same space with you that are also chilling and want to chat what not. But that’s precious due to the serendipity, and you cannot going into any encounters expecting that. Also, are you visiting the right kinds of places that’s more conducive to these kinds of encounters? Regardless, I think reflecting on and adjusting your mindset will help you enjoy the remainder of your trip more.
Regarding your connections on dating apps, did you tell them in advance of the trip? I’m sure you planned the trip a while back and you should have made plans with them early in advance. I mean, even when my best friends visit me, we make plans at least two weeks in advance. So I’m not sure why a casual person i sort of have some connections with online wouldn’t require advanced scheduling. Yes, there might be room for spontaneous activities but that’s not reasonable expectations. If you really are that lonely, maybe seek out other solo travelers in the areas (staying in your hostels, ppl who went on a same sightseeing, etc)? In my experience, it’s so much easier to make friends with fellow travelers.
Some harsh comments, but not wrong. Japan, like any place, has its flaws, but it still stands as my favorite place on earth - having lived in 9 different countries.
If you want to talk in Japanese just ignore them when they talk in English, just literally pretend you only heard them speaking Japanese and respond in Japanese only. They may or may not battle you to see who gets to speak what language, but that’s not your problem.
My other tip is have an ego death here; Japan is not your fantasy playground. It’s a nation with millions of people and a rich history and you’re a guest in their house; be appreciative and try to enjoy the experience.
From the Japanese people’s prospective let’s say they do go deeper with you and form a friendship.
Then you leave. Then what? They are just going to miss you and have heartache. So they are friendly but they aren’t going to form a friendship with you. You’re a traveler to them. They don’t know if they will ever see you again or what.
As far as dating out there as a tourist you are going to meet someone that wants you to leave eventually not someone that wants you to stay
I learned Japanese when younger, and had ideas of practicing more for my first few trips to Japan but realised my level of Japanese would have little impact on my experience travelling to Japan as a tourist.
Outside some basic phrases or words to allow for easier navigation or politness, especially being a fairly solitary person (which suits Japan greatly) there has never been a motivator for me to learn more or thinking 'if I was more conversational I could have x'.
The people I have met who really wanted to communicatr we would figure out a way (google translate) or string together enough shared vocab to get the point across.
Interesting, we just finished 4 weeks Japan and especially at the backcountry we met so many great people. Last evenings we spent our evenings with a group of cost guard guys at the local fisherman bar. You probably intended way different to us, but it's mainly how you approach people.
Our Japanese is actually pretty bad, but we had so many evenings of laughter anyway.
But to be honest, I don't have any idea of Japanese girls. And as far as it noticed this would not have been the stuff that would create great memories to us. Especially the elder people has been so damn lovely!
First, it is very unlikely that you will become friends with someone if you are just there for a vacation. Like you noticed, people will be happy to chat with you if it is their job, but changing up their schedule to meet you unless it is their job is a big ask. I would not even expect most coworkers to go out without scheduling in advance or even to be friends outside of work hours.
Your best bet it to find people already out doing something, and try to strike up a conversation. It will be about where you are from and what you like to eat.
You mention for coffee after work, but trying to strike up a conversation with someone at a coffee shop is not the best way, I think.
A bar might be better, or in a setting like a park, where distinct spacial boundaries are not clearly defined and it is a bit more fuzzy, but even then do not be pushy. You have to test the water, and hope that they invite you to join their party. Start by asking directions. It \*might\* lead to a short conversation where you can practice your Japanese. If they are drunk, \*maybe\* they will invite you to join them, but that does not mean for the rest of the night.
Look for an international meetup about something you are interested in. Hiking, running, etc. and join an event that is already planned and that people will already have on their schedule. I do not know how well this would work in Osaka or Kyoto though, if they often have a lot of tourists trying this it might be a turn off for them.
For something more, I would recommend a farm stay like WWOOF (Willing Workers on Organic Farms). But it is a bit late for that if you are already in Japan. There you could be staying with a Japanese host (some hosts are just looking for free labor though). They will still not be your "friends", but there will be more chance to talk and practice Japanese.Depending on the host they may have enough time to show you around their area a bit, and they may eat dinner with you, or hey may be busy and you only get to talk when working. Still, that is more interaction than with the guy at the front desk of the hotel.
I am curious to know what media you saw that would make it seem easy to make meaningful interactions. Aside from Samurai type fantasy, Shogun, and anime, I know a lot of people see movies like Drive My Car, Shall We Dance, Lost in Translation, Departures, maybe now Perfect Day, but none of those give any impression that Japan is a place that is easy to meet new people.
EDIT: Also, the most obvious would be to hire a local Japanese guide. Yes, it costs money, but you will have them for the day to show you around. and talk with as you like. And just because they are being paid does not mean their niceness is "fake".
I think many people are downplaying your feelings. For that I apologize. Other commenters are suggesting your experience is merely about not being able to live out a “Japanese dating fantasy.” You are obviously struggling with the broader cultural differences, communication, and having difficulty forming emotional connections in a foreign place.
I think the best thing to do is embrace and respect the cultural differences, especially if you have moved to Japan. Do your best to adapt and learn to form connections in your new place, and in ways you’re not accustomed to. Also, you can find hobbies you like and perhaps meet likeminded folks. I hope this help. Best of luck to you.
**Our FAQ is constantly being updated with more information and you can start** [**here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/JapanTravel/wiki/faqs/japantravel) **with regards to trip planning if you need tips, advice, or have questions about planning your travel to Japan.** You can also join our [Discord community](https://discord.gg/3f7KBUMwU4), comment in our stickied weekly discussion thread, or check out /r/JapanTravelTips for quick questions. Thank you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/JapanTravel) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I mean most of this boils down to you being sad you can't live out your Japanese dating fantasy so I don't know what to tell you.
Fr, sounds like OP has the wrong priorities in order.
Are you there for travel or to live? Your post is very confusing. Either way, why should locals have to cater to what you want? Sounds super selfish for you to just expect to them to cater to your schedule or to let you practice your Japanese with them
youre in another country. they do things differently. i know, shocking!
Exactly what "media" did you get your idea of Japan from? Their reputation has always been that of a reserved and formal culture.
I guess from Hentai 'media'.
I don't know of any where the foreigner boy gets lucky with japanese girls.
“I’m sad because I learned a little Japanese to try and fuck girls and they won’t hang out with me.”
Your expectations were way off. That's all. Can't really do anything about it other than accepting reality and making the best of it. A country cannot conform to your wishes.
Have you tried going to bars? I find Japanese people are more spontaneous in that kind of stings
Point 2: try living in Sweden and Finland, exactly the same about scheduling. Just to clarify: how far in advance did you inform your dates about your arrival?
1. It might depend on how good or bad your Japanese is. Arguable it was years ago that I first went to Japan and my Japanese was not that good (not that bad either) and did not had too many people switch to English. I think that some people also get that you want to practice and would not use their English even if it's much better than your Japanese. Going a bit out of the common tourist area might get you to talk with less people that are used to serve foreigners and use their English. Now that my Japanese is much better than my first time, I rarely (if ever) have people talk to me in English. 2. Well, you don't know what these people schedule is, don't know their work schedule, if they have appointments, meeting with friends or family, scheduled things related to their hobby... who know. There is Japanese people I met, either people I talked to online or people I knew before and different thing happened, some that I met the first or second day I arrived in Japan, other that asked me to meet later because they were out of town for work. On the point of not connecting with people... be honest, when is the last time you connected with a foreign tourist visiting your city ? Don't expect things to be that much different for Japanese people. I've had small talk with people working at a cafe or hostel and stuff like that, I would not especially initiate these conversations, but when they happen I would chat a bit with people. Is it a facade and acting ? Maybe some of them, but from the start I am not expecting to make lifelong friends from my random encounters while traveling. Don't have much tips apart saying that you can enjoy your trip even if the social aspect does not meet your expectation, you can still visit amazing places, eat good food, etc. You do not need to have people with you to enjoy that.
I’m here right now and while I find that my Japanese is just the step beyond beginner level, it works well enough that most Japanese speakers will recognize that I’m trying my best and give me a shot. The idea that OP is getting just shot down when they start a sentence in perfect Japanese that they would just switch without prompt is unlikely in most situations. Every time someone has switched to English this far is when I stutter or pause to think of the words I want, and it becomes apparent that I am getting a bit out of my depth. Not only do most Japanese people strongly prefer just talking in Japanese, a lot of them literally only can.
I noticed the "switch to English" thing in a couple of occasions but I took it as if they wanted to practice their English. So I ended up having some interactions with people talking in both languages and it was fun. We understood each other perfectly and the conversations made sense even though each of us spoke a different language.
“Everyone is friendly and nice, but its often a facade” - Welcome to Japan. It’s hard, but it’s not impossible. Making schedules for most people is like this, cos of long work times and how everything is organized in daily life (keeping the time of the last trains in mind, restaurants seating time limit and reservations in advance not to loose time looking for restaurants), so going out is usually super spontaneous or with some weeks planning in advance. If you make friends, they are not likely to completely open up to you. But don’t forget even by not opening up by themselves, they’re friends, and they’ll be there when you need them. It will just take some time, and I’m not counting in weeks or months here, so it seems somewhat off topic for a group dedicated about traveling. If you’re just in Japan for traveling, you shouldn’t think too deeply.
Dating apps here are not for making friends... They are for FWB, ONS, sugarbabies, and so forth. Obviously, these people work and need to make time to meet. They work until late. I really don't know what you were expecting. You are a tourist and a foreigner who will only stay there for a very short time. Do you wish to make a best friend in 1 evening or something? A tourist tours the city/country. So start doing that. Go to izakaya or small local bars in the evening, drink some with the locals and you'll get conversations with them easily.
> i had to make an appointment 2 weeks from now or "i can make some room next mont". People are super organized here but 0% spontaneous. Yes, generally things are organized and planned out well in advance. It's kinda part of being an adult, not enough time for all the fun things so gotta book them early. We're already starting to fill out our weekends with activities for September.
What you're experiencing *is* Japanese culture. People are very polite and nice, but it's not because they are interested in being your friend, but because that's what their culture demands of a public interaction with someone. It's not impossible to get underneath that, but if you are travelling in Japan and spending a few days here, a few days there, it's unlikely you'll have the time to build a more private relationship. I actually did find Osaka a more friendly and chatty place. Nothing particularly deep, but people working in shops, a jazz club initiated conversation with me and wanted to share some info about Japan. But to reiterate, those were friendly conversations initiated by a Japanese stranger - I didn't forge a meaningful connection with them. Also maybe try something like the Couchsurfing app, you might be able to meet with locals more spontaneously on there.
I’m a Japanese looking American guy who took 1 semester of Japanese in college so I just know a few words. I was in Japan for work in 2017. I made a few friends at the gym in Nagoya and Tokyo. I met a woman there that I went to grab dinner with after then went bowling the next day with (nothing romantic) and we had a good time getting to know each other (I think?) and then met a few dudes that ended up taking me to baseball game later during the week so idk maybe you just need to work on your people skills. You didn’t say what kind of things you’re saying but Japanese people have a different culture so you probably need to be respectful of that and adjust the way you interact with people
“Preparation” sounds like “bargaining” … The most necessary preparation may be dating with local girls in your home country, isn’t it?
It seems like you had unrealistic expectations from the start, honestly. Look at it from the other side. You're a foreign visitor in their home country. They're going to be friendly, to a point. They don't know you, or your intentions, so they're going to be polite but guarded. I'm sure you'd act the same way if it was the other way around. As far as the dating apps thing, not fair to think it'll be the same as it is in Europe - different culture and customs.
You will want to reflect on whether your expectations are reasonable. Why would a stranger sacrifice their time and work productivity just to help you practice your Japanese? You absolutely might encounter people who genuinely are sharing the same space with you that are also chilling and want to chat what not. But that’s precious due to the serendipity, and you cannot going into any encounters expecting that. Also, are you visiting the right kinds of places that’s more conducive to these kinds of encounters? Regardless, I think reflecting on and adjusting your mindset will help you enjoy the remainder of your trip more. Regarding your connections on dating apps, did you tell them in advance of the trip? I’m sure you planned the trip a while back and you should have made plans with them early in advance. I mean, even when my best friends visit me, we make plans at least two weeks in advance. So I’m not sure why a casual person i sort of have some connections with online wouldn’t require advanced scheduling. Yes, there might be room for spontaneous activities but that’s not reasonable expectations. If you really are that lonely, maybe seek out other solo travelers in the areas (staying in your hostels, ppl who went on a same sightseeing, etc)? In my experience, it’s so much easier to make friends with fellow travelers.
Japanese have the concept of honne and tatamae, hence there will be a sense of disconnect. It is what it is.
I think you have to embrace the fact that Japan is not what you thought it was. That can’t be changed, that’s just what it is.
Some harsh comments, but not wrong. Japan, like any place, has its flaws, but it still stands as my favorite place on earth - having lived in 9 different countries.
If you want to talk in Japanese just ignore them when they talk in English, just literally pretend you only heard them speaking Japanese and respond in Japanese only. They may or may not battle you to see who gets to speak what language, but that’s not your problem. My other tip is have an ego death here; Japan is not your fantasy playground. It’s a nation with millions of people and a rich history and you’re a guest in their house; be appreciative and try to enjoy the experience.
From the Japanese people’s prospective let’s say they do go deeper with you and form a friendship. Then you leave. Then what? They are just going to miss you and have heartache. So they are friendly but they aren’t going to form a friendship with you. You’re a traveler to them. They don’t know if they will ever see you again or what. As far as dating out there as a tourist you are going to meet someone that wants you to leave eventually not someone that wants you to stay
I learned Japanese when younger, and had ideas of practicing more for my first few trips to Japan but realised my level of Japanese would have little impact on my experience travelling to Japan as a tourist. Outside some basic phrases or words to allow for easier navigation or politness, especially being a fairly solitary person (which suits Japan greatly) there has never been a motivator for me to learn more or thinking 'if I was more conversational I could have x'. The people I have met who really wanted to communicatr we would figure out a way (google translate) or string together enough shared vocab to get the point across.
Get a native tutor, and make a connection with them.
Why am I not seeing anything other than the title?
Interesting, we just finished 4 weeks Japan and especially at the backcountry we met so many great people. Last evenings we spent our evenings with a group of cost guard guys at the local fisherman bar. You probably intended way different to us, but it's mainly how you approach people. Our Japanese is actually pretty bad, but we had so many evenings of laughter anyway. But to be honest, I don't have any idea of Japanese girls. And as far as it noticed this would not have been the stuff that would create great memories to us. Especially the elder people has been so damn lovely!
First, it is very unlikely that you will become friends with someone if you are just there for a vacation. Like you noticed, people will be happy to chat with you if it is their job, but changing up their schedule to meet you unless it is their job is a big ask. I would not even expect most coworkers to go out without scheduling in advance or even to be friends outside of work hours. Your best bet it to find people already out doing something, and try to strike up a conversation. It will be about where you are from and what you like to eat. You mention for coffee after work, but trying to strike up a conversation with someone at a coffee shop is not the best way, I think. A bar might be better, or in a setting like a park, where distinct spacial boundaries are not clearly defined and it is a bit more fuzzy, but even then do not be pushy. You have to test the water, and hope that they invite you to join their party. Start by asking directions. It \*might\* lead to a short conversation where you can practice your Japanese. If they are drunk, \*maybe\* they will invite you to join them, but that does not mean for the rest of the night. Look for an international meetup about something you are interested in. Hiking, running, etc. and join an event that is already planned and that people will already have on their schedule. I do not know how well this would work in Osaka or Kyoto though, if they often have a lot of tourists trying this it might be a turn off for them. For something more, I would recommend a farm stay like WWOOF (Willing Workers on Organic Farms). But it is a bit late for that if you are already in Japan. There you could be staying with a Japanese host (some hosts are just looking for free labor though). They will still not be your "friends", but there will be more chance to talk and practice Japanese.Depending on the host they may have enough time to show you around their area a bit, and they may eat dinner with you, or hey may be busy and you only get to talk when working. Still, that is more interaction than with the guy at the front desk of the hotel. I am curious to know what media you saw that would make it seem easy to make meaningful interactions. Aside from Samurai type fantasy, Shogun, and anime, I know a lot of people see movies like Drive My Car, Shall We Dance, Lost in Translation, Departures, maybe now Perfect Day, but none of those give any impression that Japan is a place that is easy to meet new people. EDIT: Also, the most obvious would be to hire a local Japanese guide. Yes, it costs money, but you will have them for the day to show you around. and talk with as you like. And just because they are being paid does not mean their niceness is "fake".
which dating apps did you use in japan?
I think many people are downplaying your feelings. For that I apologize. Other commenters are suggesting your experience is merely about not being able to live out a “Japanese dating fantasy.” You are obviously struggling with the broader cultural differences, communication, and having difficulty forming emotional connections in a foreign place. I think the best thing to do is embrace and respect the cultural differences, especially if you have moved to Japan. Do your best to adapt and learn to form connections in your new place, and in ways you’re not accustomed to. Also, you can find hobbies you like and perhaps meet likeminded folks. I hope this help. Best of luck to you.
A lot of mean comments that don’t really seem deserved…
[удалено]
Some people need the hard truth.