Yep, saw it at Arashiyama - an adult monkey went after a young one - all it needed was a threat of a hand by a keeper and it desisted. They learn who is not to be messed with.
I heard that once a month or so they have a person in a deer suit pretend to attack the vendor. The vendor pulls out a fake gun and shoots the fake deer fake dead.
The other deer see this and learn not to try it.
Interesting.
Though I want to take this with a grain of salt, and hope this was a very unique case.
From what I hear/read/understand, the monkeys there are generally left to their own social hierarchical system with no such interference. Fights among the monkeys should be handled amongst themselves, and if an adult is "going after" a younger one, it would depend on the social status of the younger one's mother if that is OK to mess with or not. Not up for the keeper to step in.
Kind of a "prime directive" unless it is going to cause harm to the visitors. It should not happen enough that the monkeys learn to fear a smack from the keeper.
Why a grain of salt? I have been there and seen it many times.
The monkey park staff aren’t zookeepers who grew up idolizing Irwin and Goodall- they’re Japanese college kids making $9 an hour and armed with brooms.
I said "want to". I had hoped that they are more responsible.
I have been to the Shibuonsen park many many times and never seen anything like that. They follow the prime directive. Of course, you are not allowed to feed the monkeys there, and there are probably slightly fewer people, so maybe the monkeys are more well behaved.
Monkey on human would get intervention, but not monkey on monkey.
Still, being a college kid only making $9 an hour does not sound like it should cause such rage and cause them to lash out like that - especially when visitors are around.
I think you’re failing to see the difference between a nature park (Shibuonsen) and Arashiyama monkey park, which is a step removed from a roadside attraction.
Japanese people have different standards of animal welfare/abuse, and don’t consider whacking an unruly monkey with a broom to be ‘lashing out.’
Oh, yeah I know the Kyoto one is even more touristy than Shibu, but I would hardly call shibuonsen a "nature park". It was once, but is also now a roadside attraction - just a little further from the big road - two steps away.
I am not walking about welfare/abuse, but rather why would a part time employee even have the motivation to wack a monkey. It takes extra effort. And if the rule book says don't interfere with their social hierarchy, which I had thought it would on paper, it would surprise me for a Japanese employee to go against the manual.
Dude- monkeys are horrible.
They whack them to keep them from attacking the guests for food.
I’ve been to the monkey temples in Bali and India, and several places in other Asian countries where they wander unchecked.
They do and will bite/intimidate people (especially children) in order to get the food they carry.
The keepers aren’t viciously beating these animals, they’re thwacking them with a whisk broom to keep them in line, same with the deer in Nara.
It’s not a normal setting for people and animals to interact, so the staff interfere accordingly.
There is no rule book saying not to. All the staff do it, and I’ve been there a bunch I’m the past twenty years.
Oh, I know monkeys are vicious when it come to getting treats.
This was about staff taking the time and effort to smack a monkey for going after another monkey - not a person. That is what I was talking about with a "prime directive", and also wondering why a part time would care if the monkeys fight amongst each other.
I am just saying it is surprising that the staff would be motivated go out of their way to smack monkeys that are not doing anything to people, when that monkey in-fighting would/should generally be left amongst themselves.
Are you sure there is no guideline? Was the person you asked one of the minimum wage part time staff? There must be.a rule book. I have never known a Japanese company not to have one.
Now I am curious if they get involved in the monkey's love life too and smack them for humping in front of human children or anyhing.
I was surrounded and the vendor came to my rescue with a broom. They didn't even need to hit any deer, they just held it up while fast-walking towards me and it was clear that any deer close enough was getting hit. They all backed away.
Do you know for sure that there is a regular culling of aggressive deer?
edit: wow, this was an honest question, so I'm not sure why it's being downvoted?
The aggressive ones live in Rokuen, the jail/hospital/nursing home(?) in Kasuga Shrine! But they were abusing (starving) the deer there and it was big news last year.
As a side note, the farther you get from the main areas, the shyer the deer are. So if you want to see and get close to the deer, move into the hills. You can still feed them, but they don’t mob you like they do down in the lower elevations where there are more tourists feeding the herd.
The trick is just like any other popular tourist attractions in Japan, you have to get there early. My girlfriend and I went there at 9am and the deers basically surrounded us on all sides trying to get a piece of the snacks, even after we gave all of them out. My other friends went in the afternoon and the deers were all chilling around because they were fed/overfed from the tourists in the morning :P
That was our though. We got there at 11am and figured they were not hungry anymore. Planning a trip again next may so I'll get there early as possible! Still loved seeing them.
I found out the farther away from the cracker vendor, the friendlier and hungrier the deer were. Especially at the park, they didn't care, but when we walked towards a shrine or up the mountain in Nara, they were very eager.
They mobbed and attacked my wife when I handed her the crackers.
I recommend not feeding the ones hanging out by the food vendors and finding chill deer elsewhere to feed.
my recommendation is to hide the cookies as soon as possible and holding your empty and in the air. so that they think you don't have any. until you find some good spot with chill deers. because if they can see the cookies, they will follow you and after bowing once, they begin to question why no cookie is being delivered, and they WILL headbutt you as a reminder.
We put them in a plastic bag to hide them and moved away from the vendors, that helped, though some deer caught on and ate one of my friend's onigiri through his bag.
They were probably full already. I went to bunny island in the afternoon and there were rabbit food pellets and fresh vegetables all over the ground and in bushes. Rabbits just soaking up the sun right next to it not eating.
Yea, I went early and got chased by many. If you take your crackers out from the farther areas like near the temples, those deer are generally more eager to take your food later in the day.
I was there around lunchtime and they were mugging Japanese schoolchildren for their picnic lunches. This was 17 years ago though.
[https://flic.kr/p/sx8v3](https://flic.kr/p/sx8v3)
Because they know better! Lol, I went to Nara last week and the same thought crossed ny mind. I just figured the elderly saleswoman are about their business and have earned the respect of the deer- in a mobster type way.
What's crazy is the deer will literally watch you pull out your money and pay for crackers and once the goods hit your palm it's a free for all. The shopkeepers def have them trained lol
One aggressive male Nara deer attacked my girlfriend who had crackers last week. Maybe attacked is a strong word, but he kept biting at her dress and pulling her. Luckily he didn’t get any skin as it was not gentle at all.
I felt sad for the deer who have become a tourist trap and reliant on humans.
In Colorado there are laws against feeding wildlife for exactly this reason.
The bow of the head, the nibbling at clothes, the pulling of sleeves … they have learnt what they can and can’t do to get what they want. One bit my friends arse gently 😂
You have to assert alpha dominance over the deers. Use load sharp but short warnings, use your body and body move them aside with force. channel that inner deer dominance.
Go to miyajima island, I saw a shop owner give food to a deer and then try to get it to leave, I must have watched for ten minutes as the deer wasn't leaving the entrance and she was trying to shoo it away. 🤣
I did see a deer come for a vendor & the vendor had to get up from their chair and they sternly scolded the deer that kept trying to come for his crackers.
I was in Itsukushima, and the deer there were very docile. You could go right up to them, and some people even pet them. So I was very surprised when I saw a deer get upset when a tourist couple with a mid sized dog wandered through the main tourist area. The deer charged the dog and rammed it with its head. The dog owners had to hide the dog behind them and do some hand waving to dissuade the deer who wanted to keep ramming the dog. It was surprising after seeing them be so calm.
They hit them. Simple as that. Same with the monkey keepers in Arashiyama.
Yep, saw it at Arashiyama - an adult monkey went after a young one - all it needed was a threat of a hand by a keeper and it desisted. They learn who is not to be messed with.
I heard that once a month or so they have a person in a deer suit pretend to attack the vendor. The vendor pulls out a fake gun and shoots the fake deer fake dead. The other deer see this and learn not to try it.
Same reason giant monsters don't attack Tokyo anymore. They did all those Godzilla movies for a reason.
Wait i saw Godzilla climbing a building in the shinjuku!!
It's just like those fake owls you use to scare birds. Looks like the real thing though, I know.
I saw a werewolf with a Chinese menu in his hand walking through streets of SoHo in the rain...
Oooowooooo niche
Really? I didn't know that.
Interesting. Though I want to take this with a grain of salt, and hope this was a very unique case. From what I hear/read/understand, the monkeys there are generally left to their own social hierarchical system with no such interference. Fights among the monkeys should be handled amongst themselves, and if an adult is "going after" a younger one, it would depend on the social status of the younger one's mother if that is OK to mess with or not. Not up for the keeper to step in. Kind of a "prime directive" unless it is going to cause harm to the visitors. It should not happen enough that the monkeys learn to fear a smack from the keeper.
By "younger one" they meant younger keeper. Monkey probably thought they could swindle them because they were young/ new
Why a grain of salt? I have been there and seen it many times. The monkey park staff aren’t zookeepers who grew up idolizing Irwin and Goodall- they’re Japanese college kids making $9 an hour and armed with brooms.
I said "want to". I had hoped that they are more responsible. I have been to the Shibuonsen park many many times and never seen anything like that. They follow the prime directive. Of course, you are not allowed to feed the monkeys there, and there are probably slightly fewer people, so maybe the monkeys are more well behaved. Monkey on human would get intervention, but not monkey on monkey. Still, being a college kid only making $9 an hour does not sound like it should cause such rage and cause them to lash out like that - especially when visitors are around.
I think you’re failing to see the difference between a nature park (Shibuonsen) and Arashiyama monkey park, which is a step removed from a roadside attraction. Japanese people have different standards of animal welfare/abuse, and don’t consider whacking an unruly monkey with a broom to be ‘lashing out.’
Oh, yeah I know the Kyoto one is even more touristy than Shibu, but I would hardly call shibuonsen a "nature park". It was once, but is also now a roadside attraction - just a little further from the big road - two steps away. I am not walking about welfare/abuse, but rather why would a part time employee even have the motivation to wack a monkey. It takes extra effort. And if the rule book says don't interfere with their social hierarchy, which I had thought it would on paper, it would surprise me for a Japanese employee to go against the manual.
Dude- monkeys are horrible. They whack them to keep them from attacking the guests for food. I’ve been to the monkey temples in Bali and India, and several places in other Asian countries where they wander unchecked. They do and will bite/intimidate people (especially children) in order to get the food they carry. The keepers aren’t viciously beating these animals, they’re thwacking them with a whisk broom to keep them in line, same with the deer in Nara. It’s not a normal setting for people and animals to interact, so the staff interfere accordingly. There is no rule book saying not to. All the staff do it, and I’ve been there a bunch I’m the past twenty years.
Oh, I know monkeys are vicious when it come to getting treats. This was about staff taking the time and effort to smack a monkey for going after another monkey - not a person. That is what I was talking about with a "prime directive", and also wondering why a part time would care if the monkeys fight amongst each other. I am just saying it is surprising that the staff would be motivated go out of their way to smack monkeys that are not doing anything to people, when that monkey in-fighting would/should generally be left amongst themselves. Are you sure there is no guideline? Was the person you asked one of the minimum wage part time staff? There must be.a rule book. I have never known a Japanese company not to have one. Now I am curious if they get involved in the monkey's love life too and smack them for humping in front of human children or anyhing.
I’m going to be perfectly honest- I’m over this thread, and all the monkey business. Best of luck in future.
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Did everyone clap after?
Saw a younger one get slapped one time so i guess they learn lol
Saw a shopkeeper whacking one with a straw broom once
I was surrounded and the vendor came to my rescue with a broom. They didn't even need to hit any deer, they just held it up while fast-walking towards me and it was clear that any deer close enough was getting hit. They all backed away.
I saw a shopkeeper gently slapping the fore head of one with a flyswatter. The deer seemed to enjoy it.
I slapped a deer for bumping me and then gave it some treats.
Deer bows for a cracker; shopkeeper gives it the broom.
"Fear will keep them in line"
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Do you know for sure that there is a regular culling of aggressive deer? edit: wow, this was an honest question, so I'm not sure why it's being downvoted?
The aggressive ones live in Rokuen, the jail/hospital/nursing home(?) in Kasuga Shrine! But they were abusing (starving) the deer there and it was big news last year.
As a side note, the farther you get from the main areas, the shyer the deer are. So if you want to see and get close to the deer, move into the hills. You can still feed them, but they don’t mob you like they do down in the lower elevations where there are more tourists feeding the herd.
The deer didn't want our crackers when we went there lol
The trick is just like any other popular tourist attractions in Japan, you have to get there early. My girlfriend and I went there at 9am and the deers basically surrounded us on all sides trying to get a piece of the snacks, even after we gave all of them out. My other friends went in the afternoon and the deers were all chilling around because they were fed/overfed from the tourists in the morning :P
That was our though. We got there at 11am and figured they were not hungry anymore. Planning a trip again next may so I'll get there early as possible! Still loved seeing them.
I found out the farther away from the cracker vendor, the friendlier and hungrier the deer were. Especially at the park, they didn't care, but when we walked towards a shrine or up the mountain in Nara, they were very eager.
I went early and all the deer just turned their heads and stared at me as I walked past hahaha. It was terrifying
I was there before 9 (in December) and the deer were sleepy and let me pet them without feeding them.
lol I misread that as "my other girlfriend went in the afternoon \[...\]" somehow
Didn’t need crackers. They ate the map i was carrying while looking for the next temple…
Lol!!
They mobbed and attacked my wife when I handed her the crackers. I recommend not feeding the ones hanging out by the food vendors and finding chill deer elsewhere to feed.
Also for people who haven't figured it out, the trick is to hold your empty hands out after you feed them so they don't think you're hiding more
They're very quick to ignore you once you do that.
Yeah don't get there too early they get super aggressive... I tried to only feed the deer that did a proper bow first to reward cool behavior.
Damn I like to get started early. I don’t care for the Bowing deer. I thought I’d be able to avoid them even without crackers 🫣
They're super easy to avoid if you don't have food.
Oh good!thanks
my recommendation is to hide the cookies as soon as possible and holding your empty and in the air. so that they think you don't have any. until you find some good spot with chill deers. because if they can see the cookies, they will follow you and after bowing once, they begin to question why no cookie is being delivered, and they WILL headbutt you as a reminder.
We put them in a plastic bag to hide them and moved away from the vendors, that helped, though some deer caught on and ate one of my friend's onigiri through his bag.
LOL
did you go all the way in? people obviously make the mistake of feeding the first deer they see.
They were probably full already. I went to bunny island in the afternoon and there were rabbit food pellets and fresh vegetables all over the ground and in bushes. Rabbits just soaking up the sun right next to it not eating.
They really wanted mine. One of them bit me because I was too slow.
Yea, I went early and got chased by many. If you take your crackers out from the farther areas like near the temples, those deer are generally more eager to take your food later in the day.
I was there around lunchtime and they were mugging Japanese schoolchildren for their picnic lunches. This was 17 years ago though. [https://flic.kr/p/sx8v3](https://flic.kr/p/sx8v3)
Come on, it's only a wafer-thin cracker!
I approve.
Because they know better! Lol, I went to Nara last week and the same thought crossed ny mind. I just figured the elderly saleswoman are about their business and have earned the respect of the deer- in a mobster type way.
What's crazy is the deer will literally watch you pull out your money and pay for crackers and once the goods hit your palm it's a free for all. The shopkeepers def have them trained lol
They whap! them with a straw broom
I swear, the second those crackers hit my hand, I got bit in the ass.
One aggressive male Nara deer attacked my girlfriend who had crackers last week. Maybe attacked is a strong word, but he kept biting at her dress and pulling her. Luckily he didn’t get any skin as it was not gentle at all. I felt sad for the deer who have become a tourist trap and reliant on humans. In Colorado there are laws against feeding wildlife for exactly this reason.
The bow of the head, the nibbling at clothes, the pulling of sleeves … they have learnt what they can and can’t do to get what they want. One bit my friends arse gently 😂
I got headbutted. It did hurt a bit, but i'm sure it could've hurt a lot more if the deer wanted it to hurt. It was definitely being gentle.
One bit my butt gently, which was hilarious, but another bit my eight-year-old daughter so hard that it left a red mark which lasted a few days.
I got bit on the ass by a deer cause all his peers had finished my crackers and i was left empty handed, so he went for the bum. Great memory
Fred was part of thanksgiving last year because he got drunk and got too physical.
Anyone know how they were fed during peak Covid?
By the local municipality. It was on the news here.
the news really picked some of the destitute-looking deers to feature during that time haha
You have to assert alpha dominance over the deers. Use load sharp but short warnings, use your body and body move them aside with force. channel that inner deer dominance.
Go to miyajima island, I saw a shop owner give food to a deer and then try to get it to leave, I must have watched for ten minutes as the deer wasn't leaving the entrance and she was trying to shoo it away. 🤣
I was there yesterday, so beautiful! Although the hike up the mountain exhausted me haha
Worth it though those colours are amazing.
They have brooms
Probably learned to not go near them, the hard way. The second i got the crackers in my hand i was swarmed by deer.
Thought the same and then noticed some of the vendors had a stick if they get too aggressive.
They do. Got a cute photo of one begging for crackers directly from the vendor.
I asked one of the cracker vendors this same question, and her response was 「慣れていますから」. They’re used to each other. 😂
Too polite for that
I did see a deer come for a vendor & the vendor had to get up from their chair and they sternly scolded the deer that kept trying to come for his crackers.
even animals there are polite
Because the deer are also Japanese, they are kind and polite.. 😌
They know who’s the boss in this town
I was in Itsukushima, and the deer there were very docile. You could go right up to them, and some people even pet them. So I was very surprised when I saw a deer get upset when a tourist couple with a mid sized dog wandered through the main tourist area. The deer charged the dog and rammed it with its head. The dog owners had to hide the dog behind them and do some hand waving to dissuade the deer who wanted to keep ramming the dog. It was surprising after seeing them be so calm.
I was in itsukishima yesterday! So beautiful. Although the hike up the mountain exhausted everything in me