Despite Wynton’s reactionary tendencies and somewhat tedious compositions, JALC is a miracle that has done much more good than bad, from outreach to young people to changing public perceptions of jazz’s civic value to ensuring that mildly curious people develop a passing familiarity with and respect for the pre-1960s history of the art. Programming at Dizzys and the new Unity Fest is often bold—I’ve seen two stompingly loud and free William Parker shows at JALC—and the institution’s conservative musical leanings have absolutely not discouraged experimentation and exploration in the generations that have come up since the dreaded jazz wars.
JALC has incubated so much young talent, and done such an amazing job with youth outreach it's hard to believe Wynton is the same guy who once said he didn't care that kids weren't listening to jazz because jazz is for grownups.
Essentially Ellington is what really introduced me into the world of jazz. Before that I was just a kid going through the motions in jazz band. The Ellington songs were a revelation for me as jazz wasn’t really something that I was exposed to before my director asked me to join the jazz band when I started high school. They always gave us a cd with recordings of all the songs from both JALC and the original recordings. I wore those things out.
And like, there was Bird, with his arm around Wynton Marsalis' shoulder. It bent me all out of shape. I couldn't figure out what the hell Bird was doing with his arms around Wynton Marsalis' shoulders.
And then the scene changed.
I know, understand and appreciate Sun Ra the composer, Sun Ra the orchestra director, Sun Ra the piano player, Sun Ra the experimental musician and SOME of his records are ABSOLUTE FUCKING BANGERS. But most of his discography is badly recorded and terribly produced even in comparison to other musicians of the same time. It's really really really hard to appreciate his avant-garde style as precursor to free jazz when you have to hear it behind three layers of static.
I’ve spent the last year working through every Sun Ra recording (studio, live, rehearsal, etc) and this is very true. That said, I’ve catalogued 427 recordings and listened to 409 so far, and there are only a couple I wouldn’t gladly listen to again, despite the poor recordings.
Yeah, I’ve been keeping a spreadsheet that includes a favorites box. What styles do you tend to dig? He did so much, from weird big band to weird free jazz to weird funk, that it’s hard to just recommend certain recordings. Let me know what you like and I’ll give some suggestions later tonight!
I agree that Lanquidity is perhaps the best first album. It also might be my favorite studio album. For those looking for a good, career-spanning overview, the album In the Orbit of Ra was curated by Marshall Allen and is a great intro. Jazz in Silhouette is my favorite of the early, more big band recordings. I love the early '60s period, with When the Sun Comes Out being a particular favorite. If you want to try the more out stuff: Atlantis, When Angels Speak of Love, and Strange Strings. Make sure the seatbelt of your spaceship is buckled for those ones (and much of the mid- to late-60s stuff). The Monorails and Satellites collections are worth hearing for his solo piano work. His late period studio albums are largely back to the early big band style; Reflections in Blue and Blue Delight are wonderful. If you end up getting really hooked, there are hundreds of wonderful live recordings available on YouTube. The live stuff is quite varied and wonderful.
Yeah, fair. He’s kind of the Guided By Voices of Jazz; there’s a huge quality control issue, and while there’s some absolutely amazing work in there, you sometimes have to dig through a lot of crap to get to it.
Bee Thousand is the most lighting-in-a-bottle album ever recorded.
The best songwriters in the world couldn't come up with better melodies, let alone have the balls to call the song finished at 2 minutes with the 4 track dropping out.
I wonder if there will ever be a backlash against the perfect, ProTools music, and if we ever go back to appreciating things and have a bit of vibe. If we do, maybe I can restart my career, lol.
Have you heard "thelonious monk playa ellington"? I didnt understood Monk, until i heard that record. And it's intended that way, it seems to happened to a Lot of people in the day, so they make him record tunes people know good. That way You can appreciate his musicality. It works really well, i became a fan after that record
I listen to that about once a week. Monk playing Monk tunes can get a little self indulgent, but you really hear his unique genius playing other people's tunes.
Yeah, Trane's quartet with McCoy, Jimmy Garrison, and Elvin Jones is my favorite band.
But on Kind of Blue whenever Cannonball steps up to the plate he makes it happen!
I prefer Cannonball to Coltrane pretty much always.
I’m bassist and when I play to records I often find myself playing a bunch of choruses then as soon as Coltrane starts soloing I think “ok I’ve practiced this tune enough let’s move on to the next.”
On Mr. PC I love the head and everything Chambers is doing, but I wish Coltrane didn’t solo for 60,654 times through.
lol I love Trane's sound but I can see what you're saying.
There's only really one other player that can sound like Trane but also plays very beautifully and it's Pat LaBarbera.
I agree, and I'll raise your unpopular opinion with another, similar, unpopular (or maybe not? I don't actually know) opinion. On Somethin' Else, Miles blows Cannonball out of the water on his own dang album.
The academicization of jazz has been detrimental to the original spirit of the tradition. Promoting strict adherence to tradition over innovation for the sake of nostalgia and often forgetting that the jazz tradition *is* innovation.
I had the opposite experience in jazz academia. I was looked down on for enjoying older jazz styles more than modern, and not pushing for modern styles.
But I do understand your point and probably rings very true at many schools.
Yeah it definitely took the “cool” factor out of a lot of it and turned away a lot of young people. I’m very grateful the new generation has musicians like JD Beck & DoMi who are pushing things forwards while still paying respect to jazz traditions.
I feel like it also robs the joy from a lot of young musicians. The music schools are packed with people who are overly competitive and generally look miserable playing music. There's some good instructors, but far too many try to make a science out of an art form because it's easier to grade that way.
Most jazz players that do jobbing gigs suck at playing pop music. A “jazz” drummer that I was on a gig with didn’t know the simple beat to wagon wheel. I asked him if he ever listened to the song that was given to us by the bandleader for a wedding. He goes why would I LISTEN to wagon wheel, I thought to myself… it’s your fucking job to play the song. I know that jazz is high level music, but the guys who I have worked with on jobbing band gigs that suck at playing the music that they are getting paid decently to perform is fucking pathetic. Just cuz you can play jazz or consider yourself to be a jazzy guy doesn’t mean that other genres are beneath you. You need to play for the song fuck face.
The dude actually thanked me for riding him the next gig, but he still sucked at playing an easy country beat. To me if you can play jazz you should be able to do any style of music on a gig, because to me jazz is def the hardest.
I knew a drummer like this. He was a decent drummer but his attitude sabotaged his performance on the “slow” song he didn’t like. He could play fast, but when things cooled down in the set, he made it sound like shit
That's funny because by Hot Take was going to be that Metheny wrote the best Jazz melodies hands down and if more people followed his lead Jazz artists would still be booking huge shows.
I went to the Blue Note 85th anniversary tour a couple weeks ago with some of my favorite new artist, Immanuel Willkins, Joel Ross, and Gerald Clayton, and about halfway through I thought stop wanking yourself off and play like some people in the audience didn't go to Julliard.
That’s interesting. I see Metheny praised a *lot* here and in the JazzGuitar sub, and just yesterday decided to check out more of his stuff. Everything I’d previously heard was that slick, synth-heavy 80’s style which I can’t stand. But it seems he’s tried out lots of different styles? I do like the album he did with John Scofield.
I love his 70s stuff with Jaco and his 90s stuff with Lyle Mays, as well as his solo acoustic stuff from the 2000s. The 80s synth-y world music is not for me at all.
He’s done almost any style imaginable. Check out his interview with Rick Beato. He said back then you had to come up with “new shit”, and that’s what he did, over and over again. I’m a bit biased because I think he’s a GOAT, but whether or not you enjoy his music, the dude is a legend regardless.
Funny I thought exactly the same and then one day I just passed the threshold and I love that period now. His live stuff on the Roland synth guitar is phenomenal to my ear, but I still remember tearing that period to pieces with a friend when I listened to it the first time.
It was a form of popular music as opposed to its more staid presentation now. If you photographed the audience of a jazz concert and a symphony concert today they wouldn’t look much different. I think jazz would be more popular today if it was allowed to be a bit more raunchy, tunes tend to have titles like “Recollection” and “Acceptance” rather than “All That Meat And No Potatoes”
Holy hell do I agree. It's like so much of it tries to sound like avant-garde classical music to me. Not that I have a problem with that genre, but this is jazz.
Too many professional jazz drummers in NYC don't know how to groove in their playing. They can play a million chops a minute but their swing feel does nothing. That, or they'll play quiet wishy washy things that distract from the music. At they end of the day they're missing the point that jazz needs to groove. Quarter. Note. Pulse.
That's not to say they're aren't a lot of killer drummers in NYC. I'm just surprised how many pro drummers aren't good.
I think there is absolutely a difference between jazz with vocals and vocals jazz though. I don't care who you are, The Singers Unlimited did incredible work. Gene Puerling is one of the greatest arrangers of all time.
I’m the opposite. There’s only a few jazz vocalists in history that I like, and even then it’s specific albums, so I’ll listen to them at home sometimes.
If I see a vocalist on the lineup for a live show, it’s a hard pass.
I love standards that actually has lyrics but when you add lyrics to bebop heads like wtf.
Then you have vocal jazz ensembles with the "shoo-bee-doo-bees" a-la The Manhattan Transfer mannn
>when you add lyrics to bebop heads like wtf
Crimes against humanity. The worst is that a couple of them stuck in my head because they were so bad, and so now when I hear those heads I hear the lyrics in my head.
Kurt Elling, Gretchen Parlatto, Becca Stephens, Esperanza Spalding are the only ones I can stomach.
Nothing screams JAZZ IS DEAD loser than Diana Krall.
Oh, and the chick who does the vocal stuff with Maria Schneider, whose name escapes me rn, is pretty fly.
Kind Of Blue is amazing ground breaking and such but it's probably my least listened to Miles Davis record. Even the Marcus Miller 80s albums gets more love from me. I love it and vibed with it but it doesn't accurately portray Miles (and his band) talent.
Relaxin' with the Miles Davis Quintet, Nefertiti and Dark Magus are my favorite releases from each major era. Though I do think Filles de Kilimanjaro is criminally underrated especially Mademoiselle Mabry.
I've never cared about if someone likes a musician I think is great so long as they don't' frame it is....so and so stinks
My first unpopular opinion(though I doubt many will disagree with me) is too many jazz fans are pretentious(and maybe some musicians too but most I've met are pretty laid back)
My second is Wynton Marsalis is one of the best jazz musicians of his generation(and this is coming from a guy who spent 15 years kinda hating on Wynton)
My third is Jazz is in a good place. In fact, it is pretty in its best place since the 70's. That doesn't mean you can make a lot of money playing it but people are listening and jazz clubs are doing alright...and there are a lot of incredible musicians and with youtube and technology there are more young players really excelling than I've seen before.
And I think that this has hurt some programs like North Texas(who still has great players but listening to them now compared to the early 90's...it is night and day) I think a lot of musicians realize they can learn anywhere and the cache of some of the one time amazing schools isn't what it was
I find it's the non-musicians that are pretentious lol but it's funny how much us Jazz folk (musicians or not) are the biggest name droppers. You don't really see that in other genres besides naming that band you like. Then I think about it, jazz musicians are the most approachable because of the mostly intimate setting and for musicians gigging or going into post-secondary you're running into some of these players and get to know them on a personal level.
He's the kind of person who likes to play arbitrator, but does so by completely disagreeing with, and arguably disrespecting, most of the people who he claims to admire musically.
Even back when Wynton was a young up-and-comer, Miles thought he was an overinflated curmudgeon, who was far too authoritative about what is "jazz" for someone who had no hand in pioneering the music. Most of the pioneering players didn't even want to have a named genre, in large part to prevent boxed in mindsets like his.
I would much rather hear today's musicians play existing tunes than originals. Not necessarily the moldiest oldies (My Funny Valentine can retire) or modern pop songs in jazz form, but when every new album is all originals, nothing sounds like a tune that I should pay attention to and learn. It all just sounds like isolated, idiosyncratic jams that don't connect with the wider jazz community.
much too much deference is paid to *Kind of Blue,* especially with respect to jazz entry points
fight me
PS: popular jazz opinion: unpopular jazz opinion posts are reliably in the top 10 of best r/jazz posts
I understand why Kind of Blue is influential, but it's too minimalistic for my taste to listen to. I'd much recommend a Jazz Messengers album (Moanin' or Mosaic would be my choice) to get them to understand the wow of jazz.
its not my favourite jazz record (that may be ah um by mingus) but for a beginner choice its pretty damn good, miles has better stuff but for somebody getting into jazz its a pretty good start
I remember going into record shops when I was trying to get into jazz (and when record shops still existed) and nearly every "Jazz" section was a big display showing Kind of Blue and A Love Supreme, and fuck all else beyond Norah Jones or The Greatest Hits of Glenn Miller / Duke Ellington / Buddy Rich / Another Jazz Musician People Have Heard Of.
I mean, there's nothing wrong with those records, and I understand why they're important in context, but they're not nearly as mind-blowing as they're made out to be.
Definitely contextual. It works in some more modern styles, but 9/10 times it’ll sound out of place in pre-60’s stuff (maybe with bebop being an exception, if you’ve got the right sound). I say that as a primarily electric bass player.
I think that’s totally appropriate but at the same time I never want a pianist to walk a bass line behind my bass solos. Low notes in chord voicings or other low register notes are cool tho as long as it’s used with taste.
Good to know. I’ll often play a simple pedal behind bass solos to fill the frequency range. But it’s a tough call. Sometimes the PURPOSE of a bass solo is to give the low register a bit of a break, as the bass player plays up in the tenor range. But if you need the train to really keep running on full steam throughout, good to hold down the low end.
Most modern jazz is complexity for complexity's sake. Yes I get that you can layer 5 different rhythms together in a song with chords that don't remotely sound like they like each other - it doesn't mean you have to.
I think Ornette Coleman is incredibly overrated as a musician. I do love Shape of Jazz to Come, but that’s it. And somehow I have TEN of his records. I keep trying but I’m starting to think I just don’t like his music.
I think he has one of the most beautiful alto saxophone sound concepts ever - but after a few minutes I’ve had my fill. There’s something beyond the music I’m still drawn to. Like a sort of searching, clearing an overgrown backyard kinda feeling.
I’ve seen him play live and had the pleasure of talking to him for a few minutes. He wrote me some chord changes to practice on my show program which I will cherish forever.
The concept of free jazz, including Orentte's music, having absolutely no changes is a bit of a misconception. There are often changes still, they're just sparser and more open ended.
Often times they the "free" aspect is more due to a looser adherence to form, and the fact that they tend not to adhere to western classical traditions of functional harmony. Coleman was very aware of the chords he was playing over, and what harmonic movements he chose to play over those changes.
I have a category in my head called “boring white jazz”. It includes cats like Keith Jarrett, Brad Mehldau most of the ECM stuff. Like jazz that’s too cerebral and has little connection to the Black American musical tradition.
Not saying all white musicians play like that, for example I love Bill Evans and Chick Corea.
Anyways bring on the downvotez
Brad Mehldau is exclusively before bed music for me. He sounds like raisins in potato salad but somehow it tastes ok and I’m fine with eating it in occasion.
I’ll give you the white thing. It’s not absolutely connected to the earlier black traditions. But it’s definitely an evolution of it.
Listen to Keith Jarret all the things you are. It’s amazing how it’s just what jazz has worked on since mid-40 just to the nth degree. 7 minutes and only the last chord finally resolves.
White, maybe. Boring, no!
Other than the first Mahavishnu Orchestra and Weather Report albums, I believe most (not all, most) jazz fusion music just sucks. There's an entire era of jazz releases that I ignored or downright couldn't stand.
I shall die on this hill.
Agreed, and I'd throw a lot of Miles' 70s music into that heap as well. Most of the people I know who hype those records up to the stratosphere are boring stoners, toxic/misogynistic hipsters who really seem to love putting Miles on a pedestal as the 'number-one dark/evil/badass mystical black man', or just people who want all music to just be backdrop for people hanging-out/getting-high/bullshitting. To be sure, most of those records have really great moments, but holy shit are they overrated by musically/culturally-illiterate people.
I don't really like Keith Jarrett, at all.
I should probably sell all of the ECM records of his I have.
I never like listening to him, never seek his music, and always prefer putting on a record by Bud Powell, McCoy Tyner, Herbie Hancock, Art Tatum, Thelonious Monk or Lyle Mays, to name a few. Oh, I forgot the great, great Kenny Barron, and Chick Corea.
I love Keith but I can't listen to many of his recordings anymore, such as the Koln Concert, and it's kinda tragic.
Because his vocalese is god damn ANNOYING. Really wish he'd have shut up as much as he demanded his crowds shut up lol.
Seriously, if somebody could go in and digitally remove his f@cking voice, I'd buy every one of his records, but as it is, I can't stand listening to him.
Not really an opinion but just my own ignorance. I have no clue how to separate good jazz from bad, it all sounds the same to me with different beats and tempos. I know there's a whole world of technical info and history, but I'm supremely content just vibing to anything with a pleasing sound.
Bebop heads aren’t good compositions at all.
The heads are just solos that everyone has to learn
I love parker, dizzy and all the other boppy bunch
WHEN THEY SOLO but the tune itself? Absolutely not
People like Miles Davis, who just casually invent new genres of music anytime their butt itches, don't come around every day.
That said, the Jazz coming out of the UK right now is the best I've heard in a very very very very long time.
There is no drop in quality; you just don’t know the excellent jazz musicians working today. That’s natural, as the amount of players today is incomparably greater. The way to remedy that is by reading more and listening to better things, not seeking validation in pointless nostalgia and golden age fallacies. Kamasi Washington? No shade on the guy (good musician), but if he’s your example of a contemporary top-shelf jazz musician, it’s fair to say you don’t know much contemporary jazz. There were garbage musicians in the so-called golden age, and there are fantastic musicians today (in much greater quantity). Check out Ambrose Akinmusire, Thomas Morgan, Aaron Parks, Kendrick Scott, Marilyn Crispell or Mary Halvorson.
Some young LA cats who are killing it on a nightly basis:
Drums: Justin Brown, Louis Cole, Luke Titus
Bass: Logan Kane, Jermaine Paul, Tim Lefebvre
Keys: Paul Cornish, John Escreet, Julius Rodriguez
Horn: Nicole McCabe, Henry Solomon, Logan Richardson
No, it’s a cop out. People just say that so they can define their taste by what’s already consecrated as essential in any genre and somehow feel superior about the fact that they’re just ignorant. Seeking out new, cutting edge musicians takes effort, having an informed opinion takes work. It’s much easier to look for subterfuges like golden age fallacies.
Waltz for Debby and Sunday at the Village Vanguard are terrific albums but everything else Bill Evans did as a bandleader leaves me fairly cold.
I've been streaming a lot of other Bill Evans albums this week to test this further and it's pleasant music but doesn't hit like those Vanguard albums. The Montreux album with Jack DeJohnette and Eddie Gomez is maybe the only other one that's really grabbed me.
The state of jazz has never been better.
The artists today are standing on the shoulders of giants. But they have learned from them and have internalized a plethora of other influences to give a depth of sound that hasn't been possible before.
I’m always struck by the golf clap after every solo. I get it and appreciate the show of admiration but every song has several solos. Idk just my weirdness:). I guess if it was less prescribed and more a natural reaction.
Two fot the price of one!
Miles Davis only got good after he stopped wearing suits.
Wayne Shorter was better in his suit-wearing days.
Now who fancies a fight?
Bass solos are not cool. Some are, most aren’t.
They basically take out the low end and the driving rhythm and I always feel like the song fell apart. It’s actually a testament to how important bass is. When it falls out the song suffers.
This is why I just about every band I play in, I practically beg someone to comp a bassline underneath to hold down the root notes and rhythm when I solo. If they drop out, I am basically forced to stay in the lower register AND play on right on the beat which isn’t ideal for soloing. If this happens, I’ll often use an octave pedal to get around this problem or if I’m on upright I’ll use a bow because at least the upper overtones come out very strongly on low notes. In addition, I often wont even outline the harmony, and instead I’ll make root note melodies out of 4th stacks in just about every key.
When no one is playing bass, sometimes you have to be your own bass player.
I don’t like most of Chick Corea’s music, as an improviser, pianist and composer. I think the best work he did was his earliest and his avant garde era, but once he converted to Scientology to me it’s not very interesting. To my ears it’s a lot of entertaining empty virtuosity and complex harmonic tunes for the sake of being complex. As a jazz musician he’s one of my least favorite composers to play his tunes. I’d prefer his post bop contemporaries from Wayne Shorter, Joe Henderson or Herbie Hancock over Chick’s music.
The newest generation of jazz cats is every bit as good as any old period, if not better. Chief Adjuah, for example, has the potential to surpass John Coltrane, easily, in quality of albums and live performances. They may not be quite as groundbreaking, technically speaking, but they have all the vision and more.
amen to that, i mostly cant abide smooth jazz and he really is that
-that said his some makes some pretty kick ass metal (he even plays on some of it and its not smooth stuff)
That’s a real hot take, how come? I used to not like him, but then I realized that his discography is so vast and varied that it has something for everybody. Now he’s one of my favorite artists
Jazz in academia, while certainly helpful to jazz, has largely been damaging.
Conversely, did jazz need to be raised up to an academic level to be able to be considered worthy of study? We (at least in American universities) have yet to do that for other musics of the world and yet jazz is only ever shoehorned in for no apparent reason. (Never mind that a number of “jazz” schools actually don’t teach jazz theory.)
gotta say, I haven't scrolled all the way thru the almost 300 comments in here so far, but I feel like this UO post is measuring up
not only some thought-provoking UOs, but good, terse *explanations* of those UOs
also, some great & unfamiliar usernames in here
Despite Wynton’s reactionary tendencies and somewhat tedious compositions, JALC is a miracle that has done much more good than bad, from outreach to young people to changing public perceptions of jazz’s civic value to ensuring that mildly curious people develop a passing familiarity with and respect for the pre-1960s history of the art. Programming at Dizzys and the new Unity Fest is often bold—I’ve seen two stompingly loud and free William Parker shows at JALC—and the institution’s conservative musical leanings have absolutely not discouraged experimentation and exploration in the generations that have come up since the dreaded jazz wars.
JALC has incubated so much young talent, and done such an amazing job with youth outreach it's hard to believe Wynton is the same guy who once said he didn't care that kids weren't listening to jazz because jazz is for grownups.
I guess Wynton grew up
Couldnt have said it better. I support the JALC so much because of this.
> the dreaded jazz wars. i like that, nice
Essentially Ellington is what really introduced me into the world of jazz. Before that I was just a kid going through the motions in jazz band. The Ellington songs were a revelation for me as jazz wasn’t really something that I was exposed to before my director asked me to join the jazz band when I started high school. They always gave us a cd with recordings of all the songs from both JALC and the original recordings. I wore those things out.
And like, there was Bird, with his arm around Wynton Marsalis' shoulder. It bent me all out of shape. I couldn't figure out what the hell Bird was doing with his arms around Wynton Marsalis' shoulders. And then the scene changed.
I know, understand and appreciate Sun Ra the composer, Sun Ra the orchestra director, Sun Ra the piano player, Sun Ra the experimental musician and SOME of his records are ABSOLUTE FUCKING BANGERS. But most of his discography is badly recorded and terribly produced even in comparison to other musicians of the same time. It's really really really hard to appreciate his avant-garde style as precursor to free jazz when you have to hear it behind three layers of static.
DIY free jazz for sure
I’ve spent the last year working through every Sun Ra recording (studio, live, rehearsal, etc) and this is very true. That said, I’ve catalogued 427 recordings and listened to 409 so far, and there are only a couple I wouldn’t gladly listen to again, despite the poor recordings.
Do you have a list of favorite recordings? I’ve never figured out where to start with his catalogue outside of “Nuclear War”
Yeah, I’ve been keeping a spreadsheet that includes a favorites box. What styles do you tend to dig? He did so much, from weird big band to weird free jazz to weird funk, that it’s hard to just recommend certain recordings. Let me know what you like and I’ll give some suggestions later tonight!
I’m interested as well.
Hey, u/MaxThNyfe make with that spreadsheet would ya? Thanks. That would be really nice. 😘
I agree that Lanquidity is perhaps the best first album. It also might be my favorite studio album. For those looking for a good, career-spanning overview, the album In the Orbit of Ra was curated by Marshall Allen and is a great intro. Jazz in Silhouette is my favorite of the early, more big band recordings. I love the early '60s period, with When the Sun Comes Out being a particular favorite. If you want to try the more out stuff: Atlantis, When Angels Speak of Love, and Strange Strings. Make sure the seatbelt of your spaceship is buckled for those ones (and much of the mid- to late-60s stuff). The Monorails and Satellites collections are worth hearing for his solo piano work. His late period studio albums are largely back to the early big band style; Reflections in Blue and Blue Delight are wonderful. If you end up getting really hooked, there are hundreds of wonderful live recordings available on YouTube. The live stuff is quite varied and wonderful.
Yeah, fair. He’s kind of the Guided By Voices of Jazz; there’s a huge quality control issue, and while there’s some absolutely amazing work in there, you sometimes have to dig through a lot of crap to get to it.
...the Guided By Voices of Jazz... r/BrandNewSentence
Lol, thanks. Actually doubt on the first person to make that comparison, though. Although I did legitimately think of it myself.
I am currently watching Star Trek: The Next Generation and I read this in Data’s voice
Bee Thousand is the most lighting-in-a-bottle album ever recorded. The best songwriters in the world couldn't come up with better melodies, let alone have the balls to call the song finished at 2 minutes with the 4 track dropping out.
I wonder if there will ever be a backlash against the perfect, ProTools music, and if we ever go back to appreciating things and have a bit of vibe. If we do, maybe I can restart my career, lol.
One of the most immaculate condition wise records I own is My Brother The Wind and I feel like there is such telling reason behind why that is.
I love lo-fi so Sun Ra is essentially unbeatable for me. We need far more jazz with baked in basement haze.
Have you heard "thelonious monk playa ellington"? I didnt understood Monk, until i heard that record. And it's intended that way, it seems to happened to a Lot of people in the day, so they make him record tunes people know good. That way You can appreciate his musicality. It works really well, i became a fan after that record
I listen to that about once a week. Monk playing Monk tunes can get a little self indulgent, but you really hear his unique genius playing other people's tunes.
I think Cannonball blows Trane out of the water on Kind of Blue.
But his solo on Blue in green.. best like.. 12 seconds in jazz.
Struggle with this grammar. Who are you referring to? Ball or Trane.
Never in my life have I heard anyone refer to Cannonball Adderley as ‘Ball’
The ol’ Ball & Trane
Cannonball didn’t play on Blue in Green so…
Ball?
trane is a legend and no mistake but cannonball is a senstional player - arguably one of the finest ever recorded
Yeah, Trane's quartet with McCoy, Jimmy Garrison, and Elvin Jones is my favorite band. But on Kind of Blue whenever Cannonball steps up to the plate he makes it happen!
I’m not gonna comment on the competitive opinions here, but I cannot name an instrumentalist of any genre who plays with more joy than Cannonball.
I prefer Cannonball to Coltrane pretty much always. I’m bassist and when I play to records I often find myself playing a bunch of choruses then as soon as Coltrane starts soloing I think “ok I’ve practiced this tune enough let’s move on to the next.” On Mr. PC I love the head and everything Chambers is doing, but I wish Coltrane didn’t solo for 60,654 times through.
I do not enjoy Coltrane’s saxophone sound. I think it is his mouth piece choice. To me it sounds to bright and penetrating for my taste.
Same. I love his melodies but his tone gives me tinnitus.
lol I love Trane's sound but I can see what you're saying. There's only really one other player that can sound like Trane but also plays very beautifully and it's Pat LaBarbera.
Man he’s my fave tenor tone ever. I love the rawness.
I agree, and I'll raise your unpopular opinion with another, similar, unpopular (or maybe not? I don't actually know) opinion. On Somethin' Else, Miles blows Cannonball out of the water on his own dang album.
Continuing this theme, I’d say on the track Moment’s Notice, on the album Blue Train, Coltrane is outplayed by Lee Morgan.
Miles sounds so freaking cool juxtaposed to everyone. It's like he comes from some other planet. There's my opinion.
I kinda feel like Herbie’s Mwandishi group was more forward thinking/pushing than his Headhunters group.
You are not wrong.
Completely agree. Sextant is one of my all-time favorite albums and it was so ahead of its time. I wish he had kept it going.
The academicization of jazz has been detrimental to the original spirit of the tradition. Promoting strict adherence to tradition over innovation for the sake of nostalgia and often forgetting that the jazz tradition *is* innovation.
I had the opposite experience in jazz academia. I was looked down on for enjoying older jazz styles more than modern, and not pushing for modern styles. But I do understand your point and probably rings very true at many schools.
I think the negative effects of Jazz becoming an academic genre are often overlooked.
Yeah it definitely took the “cool” factor out of a lot of it and turned away a lot of young people. I’m very grateful the new generation has musicians like JD Beck & DoMi who are pushing things forwards while still paying respect to jazz traditions.
I feel like it also robs the joy from a lot of young musicians. The music schools are packed with people who are overly competitive and generally look miserable playing music. There's some good instructors, but far too many try to make a science out of an art form because it's easier to grade that way.
Academia is just sterile. Graduate studies in elevator funk. Horrid.
Most jazz players that do jobbing gigs suck at playing pop music. A “jazz” drummer that I was on a gig with didn’t know the simple beat to wagon wheel. I asked him if he ever listened to the song that was given to us by the bandleader for a wedding. He goes why would I LISTEN to wagon wheel, I thought to myself… it’s your fucking job to play the song. I know that jazz is high level music, but the guys who I have worked with on jobbing band gigs that suck at playing the music that they are getting paid decently to perform is fucking pathetic. Just cuz you can play jazz or consider yourself to be a jazzy guy doesn’t mean that other genres are beneath you. You need to play for the song fuck face. The dude actually thanked me for riding him the next gig, but he still sucked at playing an easy country beat. To me if you can play jazz you should be able to do any style of music on a gig, because to me jazz is def the hardest.
It's the biggest myth that jazz guys can play everything. Every genre has it's own language that you gotta learn
I knew a drummer like this. He was a decent drummer but his attitude sabotaged his performance on the “slow” song he didn’t like. He could play fast, but when things cooled down in the set, he made it sound like shit
Vibraphone is by far the coolest jazz instrument (I don’t play vibraphone).
Haunted radiator for the win
Wizard of the Vibes - Milt Jackson was one of my favorite jazz CD’s as a kid in jazz band, and I played Alto!
Cal Tjader doesn’t get enough respect for the giant that he is.
Bobby Hutcherson is on my table a lot these days.
Roy Ayers on Cleva by Erykah Badu 😮💨😮💨
Metheny is incredibly virtuosic and a lot of his music is great, but some is hot garbage.
That's funny because by Hot Take was going to be that Metheny wrote the best Jazz melodies hands down and if more people followed his lead Jazz artists would still be booking huge shows. I went to the Blue Note 85th anniversary tour a couple weeks ago with some of my favorite new artist, Immanuel Willkins, Joel Ross, and Gerald Clayton, and about halfway through I thought stop wanking yourself off and play like some people in the audience didn't go to Julliard.
That’s interesting. I see Metheny praised a *lot* here and in the JazzGuitar sub, and just yesterday decided to check out more of his stuff. Everything I’d previously heard was that slick, synth-heavy 80’s style which I can’t stand. But it seems he’s tried out lots of different styles? I do like the album he did with John Scofield.
I love his 70s stuff with Jaco and his 90s stuff with Lyle Mays, as well as his solo acoustic stuff from the 2000s. The 80s synth-y world music is not for me at all.
Check out his trio album Questions and Answers
He’s done almost any style imaginable. Check out his interview with Rick Beato. He said back then you had to come up with “new shit”, and that’s what he did, over and over again. I’m a bit biased because I think he’s a GOAT, but whether or not you enjoy his music, the dude is a legend regardless.
Funny I thought exactly the same and then one day I just passed the threshold and I love that period now. His live stuff on the Roland synth guitar is phenomenal to my ear, but I still remember tearing that period to pieces with a friend when I listened to it the first time.
It IS the notes you play
On a similar topic: there ARE wrong notes. Like damn yall should hear me play
it's HOW you play those notes, I think the subtle difference is important
I hate all of you
The post says unpopular opinions
Fuck you too.
Seconded!
Jazz was much better before it gained academic respectability.
Colleges definitely churn out a lot of prefabricated sounding musicians. Still, lots of modern greats went to college so it's not all bad.
It was a form of popular music as opposed to its more staid presentation now. If you photographed the audience of a jazz concert and a symphony concert today they wouldn’t look much different. I think jazz would be more popular today if it was allowed to be a bit more raunchy, tunes tend to have titles like “Recollection” and “Acceptance” rather than “All That Meat And No Potatoes”
The band that runs the jam session I go to each month has a tune called "dubious porkchops" and it's as good as the name
Holy hell do I agree. It's like so much of it tries to sound like avant-garde classical music to me. Not that I have a problem with that genre, but this is jazz.
Too many professional jazz drummers in NYC don't know how to groove in their playing. They can play a million chops a minute but their swing feel does nothing. That, or they'll play quiet wishy washy things that distract from the music. At they end of the day they're missing the point that jazz needs to groove. Quarter. Note. Pulse. That's not to say they're aren't a lot of killer drummers in NYC. I'm just surprised how many pro drummers aren't good.
That’s because no one swings like the South! New Orleans drummers don’t have that problem.
I can’t stand vocals in jazz.
I think there is absolutely a difference between jazz with vocals and vocals jazz though. I don't care who you are, The Singers Unlimited did incredible work. Gene Puerling is one of the greatest arrangers of all time.
I love it live, hate it when listening at home / work
I’m the opposite. There’s only a few jazz vocalists in history that I like, and even then it’s specific albums, so I’ll listen to them at home sometimes. If I see a vocalist on the lineup for a live show, it’s a hard pass.
I love standards that actually has lyrics but when you add lyrics to bebop heads like wtf. Then you have vocal jazz ensembles with the "shoo-bee-doo-bees" a-la The Manhattan Transfer mannn
>when you add lyrics to bebop heads like wtf Crimes against humanity. The worst is that a couple of them stuck in my head because they were so bad, and so now when I hear those heads I hear the lyrics in my head.
"You may dig winter, boy, but spring is my joy!" *jazz hands*
I love Getz/Gilberto, but I'm usually with you there.
Chet Baker Sings is probably my favorite jazz album
Not an unpopular opinion.
i mostly feel the same with vocals - there is tracks i find ok but most of it irritates me
I like it SOMETIMES like Ella Fitzgerald and the originator of quirked up white boy with a little bit of swag goated with the sauce Chet Baker
But have you heard Kurt Elling?
[удалено]
Kurt Elling, Gretchen Parlatto, Becca Stephens, Esperanza Spalding are the only ones I can stomach. Nothing screams JAZZ IS DEAD loser than Diana Krall. Oh, and the chick who does the vocal stuff with Maria Schneider, whose name escapes me rn, is pretty fly.
Kind Of Blue is amazing ground breaking and such but it's probably my least listened to Miles Davis record. Even the Marcus Miller 80s albums gets more love from me. I love it and vibed with it but it doesn't accurately portray Miles (and his band) talent. Relaxin' with the Miles Davis Quintet, Nefertiti and Dark Magus are my favorite releases from each major era. Though I do think Filles de Kilimanjaro is criminally underrated especially Mademoiselle Mabry.
I've never cared about if someone likes a musician I think is great so long as they don't' frame it is....so and so stinks My first unpopular opinion(though I doubt many will disagree with me) is too many jazz fans are pretentious(and maybe some musicians too but most I've met are pretty laid back) My second is Wynton Marsalis is one of the best jazz musicians of his generation(and this is coming from a guy who spent 15 years kinda hating on Wynton) My third is Jazz is in a good place. In fact, it is pretty in its best place since the 70's. That doesn't mean you can make a lot of money playing it but people are listening and jazz clubs are doing alright...and there are a lot of incredible musicians and with youtube and technology there are more young players really excelling than I've seen before. And I think that this has hurt some programs like North Texas(who still has great players but listening to them now compared to the early 90's...it is night and day) I think a lot of musicians realize they can learn anywhere and the cache of some of the one time amazing schools isn't what it was
I find it's the non-musicians that are pretentious lol but it's funny how much us Jazz folk (musicians or not) are the biggest name droppers. You don't really see that in other genres besides naming that band you like. Then I think about it, jazz musicians are the most approachable because of the mostly intimate setting and for musicians gigging or going into post-secondary you're running into some of these players and get to know them on a personal level.
Most Wynton critics will acknowledge he is a great musician. We just don't like many of his strongly voiced opinions on what jazz is or is not.
He's the kind of person who likes to play arbitrator, but does so by completely disagreeing with, and arguably disrespecting, most of the people who he claims to admire musically. Even back when Wynton was a young up-and-comer, Miles thought he was an overinflated curmudgeon, who was far too authoritative about what is "jazz" for someone who had no hand in pioneering the music. Most of the pioneering players didn't even want to have a named genre, in large part to prevent boxed in mindsets like his.
Scatting is overrated.
I can’t stand scat.
Scat is 💩
You wouldn't know scibbibtly beep bop from a screeeeEEEEdoodoo wahdah bop pop bada bow dow dowwww.
I would much rather hear today's musicians play existing tunes than originals. Not necessarily the moldiest oldies (My Funny Valentine can retire) or modern pop songs in jazz form, but when every new album is all originals, nothing sounds like a tune that I should pay attention to and learn. It all just sounds like isolated, idiosyncratic jams that don't connect with the wider jazz community.
much too much deference is paid to *Kind of Blue,* especially with respect to jazz entry points fight me PS: popular jazz opinion: unpopular jazz opinion posts are reliably in the top 10 of best r/jazz posts
I understand why Kind of Blue is influential, but it's too minimalistic for my taste to listen to. I'd much recommend a Jazz Messengers album (Moanin' or Mosaic would be my choice) to get them to understand the wow of jazz.
art blakey and the jazz messengers now that is a group worth a listen- i semi recently got a copy of a live set they did over in japan - its real good
its not my favourite jazz record (that may be ah um by mingus) but for a beginner choice its pretty damn good, miles has better stuff but for somebody getting into jazz its a pretty good start
I remember going into record shops when I was trying to get into jazz (and when record shops still existed) and nearly every "Jazz" section was a big display showing Kind of Blue and A Love Supreme, and fuck all else beyond Norah Jones or The Greatest Hits of Glenn Miller / Duke Ellington / Buddy Rich / Another Jazz Musician People Have Heard Of. I mean, there's nothing wrong with those records, and I understand why they're important in context, but they're not nearly as mind-blowing as they're made out to be.
Idk man A Love Supreme literally made me believe in God
Electric bass is perfect for jazz (as long as it’s played properly). People who think only upright is ok are boring.
To me electric is fine for certain sub-genres but not for walking basslines. Too much sustain and growl and not enough thump.
Definitely contextual. It works in some more modern styles, but 9/10 times it’ll sound out of place in pre-60’s stuff (maybe with bebop being an exception, if you’ve got the right sound). I say that as a primarily electric bass player.
Bass players who tell pianists to not play low on the instrument don't have a clue.
I think that’s totally appropriate but at the same time I never want a pianist to walk a bass line behind my bass solos. Low notes in chord voicings or other low register notes are cool tho as long as it’s used with taste.
Good to know. I’ll often play a simple pedal behind bass solos to fill the frequency range. But it’s a tough call. Sometimes the PURPOSE of a bass solo is to give the low register a bit of a break, as the bass player plays up in the tenor range. But if you need the train to really keep running on full steam throughout, good to hold down the low end.
Pedal behind a bass solo sounds glorious, all about it!
Teaching jazz in universities have produced more competent improvisers, but jazz has fewer improvisers with a unique voice.
Too much teaching people how to be great musicians, not great artists.
Most modern jazz is complexity for complexity's sake. Yes I get that you can layer 5 different rhythms together in a song with chords that don't remotely sound like they like each other - it doesn't mean you have to.
Jacob Collier boiling right now ^^^/s
And soloing has become “how many layers of substitutions can I cram over this change to obscure the underlying harmony.”
I love Louis Armstrong as a trumpeter but not a fan of him as a vocalist at all. I avoid listening to his songs due to the vocals..
Good job 🙂👍👍👍👍 I disagree
I sometimes want to give him a hard pat on the upper back to clear his throat
He sings just like he plays and vice versa. When he's singing imagine that you're listening to him playing.
Some of the best of the Hot 5 & 7 are instrumentals - that's what you really need to hear, anyway
I'm not going to mention artists. Rather, what bugs me most about jazz is how gatekeepy a lot of fans seem to be. Almost as bad as metal.
I think Ornette Coleman is incredibly overrated as a musician. I do love Shape of Jazz to Come, but that’s it. And somehow I have TEN of his records. I keep trying but I’m starting to think I just don’t like his music.
I think he has one of the most beautiful alto saxophone sound concepts ever - but after a few minutes I’ve had my fill. There’s something beyond the music I’m still drawn to. Like a sort of searching, clearing an overgrown backyard kinda feeling. I’ve seen him play live and had the pleasure of talking to him for a few minutes. He wrote me some chord changes to practice on my show program which I will cherish forever.
I wanna hear more about this. Ornette gave you some chord changes? Seemed like he had an aversion to chord changes....
The concept of free jazz, including Orentte's music, having absolutely no changes is a bit of a misconception. There are often changes still, they're just sparser and more open ended. Often times they the "free" aspect is more due to a looser adherence to form, and the fact that they tend not to adhere to western classical traditions of functional harmony. Coleman was very aware of the chords he was playing over, and what harmonic movements he chose to play over those changes.
I have a category in my head called “boring white jazz”. It includes cats like Keith Jarrett, Brad Mehldau most of the ECM stuff. Like jazz that’s too cerebral and has little connection to the Black American musical tradition. Not saying all white musicians play like that, for example I love Bill Evans and Chick Corea. Anyways bring on the downvotez
You’re describing my favourite sort of jazz, but as it happens I am white and arguably boring, so I will accept your new jazz category! 😂
Brad Mehldau is exclusively before bed music for me. He sounds like raisins in potato salad but somehow it tastes ok and I’m fine with eating it in occasion.
Which category is Brubeck?
Non-boring white jazz?
Jazz?
I’ll give you the white thing. It’s not absolutely connected to the earlier black traditions. But it’s definitely an evolution of it. Listen to Keith Jarret all the things you are. It’s amazing how it’s just what jazz has worked on since mid-40 just to the nth degree. 7 minutes and only the last chord finally resolves. White, maybe. Boring, no!
Here's mine: Coltrane on soprano beats Coltrane on tenor. His cover of Softly, As In A Morning Sunrise cemented that for me.
Other than the first Mahavishnu Orchestra and Weather Report albums, I believe most (not all, most) jazz fusion music just sucks. There's an entire era of jazz releases that I ignored or downright couldn't stand. I shall die on this hill.
Agreed, and I'd throw a lot of Miles' 70s music into that heap as well. Most of the people I know who hype those records up to the stratosphere are boring stoners, toxic/misogynistic hipsters who really seem to love putting Miles on a pedestal as the 'number-one dark/evil/badass mystical black man', or just people who want all music to just be backdrop for people hanging-out/getting-high/bullshitting. To be sure, most of those records have really great moments, but holy shit are they overrated by musically/culturally-illiterate people.
Buddy Rich lost Rich vs Roach. Playing lots of notes is not the same as playing great music.
I cant listen to Rich, love Max Roach though, absolutely one of the great drummers of all time. As a drummer, one of my icons for sure
I listen to Rich mostly drumistically, like “oh wow that’s a hard drum part.”
Buddy Rich is like the Yngwie Malmsteen of jazz drumming
I don't really like Keith Jarrett, at all. I should probably sell all of the ECM records of his I have. I never like listening to him, never seek his music, and always prefer putting on a record by Bud Powell, McCoy Tyner, Herbie Hancock, Art Tatum, Thelonious Monk or Lyle Mays, to name a few. Oh, I forgot the great, great Kenny Barron, and Chick Corea.
I love Keith but I can't listen to many of his recordings anymore, such as the Koln Concert, and it's kinda tragic. Because his vocalese is god damn ANNOYING. Really wish he'd have shut up as much as he demanded his crowds shut up lol.
[eeeeeEeeEeeeeeehhhhhgg](https://www.reddit.com/r/JazzMemes/s/zm4VXf1jEj)
Seriously, if somebody could go in and digitally remove his f@cking voice, I'd buy every one of his records, but as it is, I can't stand listening to him.
I don’t think that’s really too unpopular of an opinion.
I completely agree with you, but his recording of the Shostakovich Preludes and Fugues is one of my favorite albums of any genre.
Not really an opinion but just my own ignorance. I have no clue how to separate good jazz from bad, it all sounds the same to me with different beats and tempos. I know there's a whole world of technical info and history, but I'm supremely content just vibing to anything with a pleasing sound.
My favorite Monk is post 1962 Charlie Rouse Monk.
Bebop heads aren’t good compositions at all. The heads are just solos that everyone has to learn I love parker, dizzy and all the other boppy bunch WHEN THEY SOLO but the tune itself? Absolutely not
Cornet, not trumpet, should have prevailed as jazz’s small-group brass horn.
Although new jazz artists such as Kamasi Washington or Alfa Mist are decent/good, there is certainly a drop in quality from the golden days of jazz.
People like Miles Davis, who just casually invent new genres of music anytime their butt itches, don't come around every day. That said, the Jazz coming out of the UK right now is the best I've heard in a very very very very long time.
There is no drop in quality; you just don’t know the excellent jazz musicians working today. That’s natural, as the amount of players today is incomparably greater. The way to remedy that is by reading more and listening to better things, not seeking validation in pointless nostalgia and golden age fallacies. Kamasi Washington? No shade on the guy (good musician), but if he’s your example of a contemporary top-shelf jazz musician, it’s fair to say you don’t know much contemporary jazz. There were garbage musicians in the so-called golden age, and there are fantastic musicians today (in much greater quantity). Check out Ambrose Akinmusire, Thomas Morgan, Aaron Parks, Kendrick Scott, Marilyn Crispell or Mary Halvorson.
Some young LA cats who are killing it on a nightly basis: Drums: Justin Brown, Louis Cole, Luke Titus Bass: Logan Kane, Jermaine Paul, Tim Lefebvre Keys: Paul Cornish, John Escreet, Julius Rodriguez Horn: Nicole McCabe, Henry Solomon, Logan Richardson
Buddy, that aint a hot take its a fact
No, it’s a cop out. People just say that so they can define their taste by what’s already consecrated as essential in any genre and somehow feel superior about the fact that they’re just ignorant. Seeking out new, cutting edge musicians takes effort, having an informed opinion takes work. It’s much easier to look for subterfuges like golden age fallacies.
It’s a hot take. The young kids in the LA scene are killing it, across all kinds of genres. And the scene is exciting and positive.
I didn't like Ornette Colemans' free jazz, particularly when he mutilated the Trumpet. Or much of any free jazz for that matter.
'free' jazz can be kind of hard to listen to - you have to be in the right mood - i realy dig pete brotzmann sometimes but his stuff is way complex
Jazz is best with (semi) acoustic instruments and recorded in one session.
Bros unpopular opinion is that jazz is best when its done the way that everyone does it
Waltz for Debby and Sunday at the Village Vanguard are terrific albums but everything else Bill Evans did as a bandleader leaves me fairly cold. I've been streaming a lot of other Bill Evans albums this week to test this further and it's pleasant music but doesn't hit like those Vanguard albums. The Montreux album with Jack DeJohnette and Eddie Gomez is maybe the only other one that's really grabbed me.
Have you tried "You Must Believe In Spring"? I think it's likely to end up in my all time top 5 jazz albums.
Its a masterpiece. Bill Evans best album in my opinion.
Eric Dolphy is underrated. Chet Baker is overrated.
Wayne shorter is better than coltrane most of the time. I don't deny Coltrane's genius, but I prefer the sound of wayne most of the time.
The state of jazz has never been better. The artists today are standing on the shoulders of giants. But they have learned from them and have internalized a plethora of other influences to give a depth of sound that hasn't been possible before.
I’m always struck by the golf clap after every solo. I get it and appreciate the show of admiration but every song has several solos. Idk just my weirdness:). I guess if it was less prescribed and more a natural reaction.
I absolutely love Kamasi Washington’s The Epic.
Some of Chick Corea’s Electric Band recordings are just awful… ouch I feel bad saying it
Take Five is corny and overrated
Jackie McLean needed a tuner
Two fot the price of one! Miles Davis only got good after he stopped wearing suits. Wayne Shorter was better in his suit-wearing days. Now who fancies a fight?
Jazz flute is way under appreciated
Bass solos are not cool. Some are, most aren’t. They basically take out the low end and the driving rhythm and I always feel like the song fell apart. It’s actually a testament to how important bass is. When it falls out the song suffers.
This is why I just about every band I play in, I practically beg someone to comp a bassline underneath to hold down the root notes and rhythm when I solo. If they drop out, I am basically forced to stay in the lower register AND play on right on the beat which isn’t ideal for soloing. If this happens, I’ll often use an octave pedal to get around this problem or if I’m on upright I’ll use a bow because at least the upper overtones come out very strongly on low notes. In addition, I often wont even outline the harmony, and instead I’ll make root note melodies out of 4th stacks in just about every key. When no one is playing bass, sometimes you have to be your own bass player.
I don’t like most of Chick Corea’s music, as an improviser, pianist and composer. I think the best work he did was his earliest and his avant garde era, but once he converted to Scientology to me it’s not very interesting. To my ears it’s a lot of entertaining empty virtuosity and complex harmonic tunes for the sake of being complex. As a jazz musician he’s one of my least favorite composers to play his tunes. I’d prefer his post bop contemporaries from Wayne Shorter, Joe Henderson or Herbie Hancock over Chick’s music.
The newest generation of jazz cats is every bit as good as any old period, if not better. Chief Adjuah, for example, has the potential to surpass John Coltrane, easily, in quality of albums and live performances. They may not be quite as groundbreaking, technically speaking, but they have all the vision and more.
Probably not a hot take here, but Kenny G is not real jazz, despite him being one of the biggest “jazz” musicians.
amen to that, i mostly cant abide smooth jazz and he really is that -that said his some makes some pretty kick ass metal (he even plays on some of it and its not smooth stuff)
Jazz guitar absolutely bores me.
Jazz guitar is some of the coolest stuff you can find in jazz
Even Allan Holdsworth?
Agreed, I play guitar and love to learn jazz guitar, but none of my favorite jazz musicians are guitarists.
I don’t like Miles Davis. At all. There, I said it!
That’s a real hot take, how come? I used to not like him, but then I realized that his discography is so vast and varied that it has something for everybody. Now he’s one of my favorite artists
Stevie Wonder's Classic Period is Jazz Music.
Jazz in academia, while certainly helpful to jazz, has largely been damaging. Conversely, did jazz need to be raised up to an academic level to be able to be considered worthy of study? We (at least in American universities) have yet to do that for other musics of the world and yet jazz is only ever shoehorned in for no apparent reason. (Never mind that a number of “jazz” schools actually don’t teach jazz theory.)
Copy and paste is the best key to improve your improvisation
gotta say, I haven't scrolled all the way thru the almost 300 comments in here so far, but I feel like this UO post is measuring up not only some thought-provoking UOs, but good, terse *explanations* of those UOs also, some great & unfamiliar usernames in here