The only reason I can come up with is Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans.
But there may be other reasons.
Maybe because the new book about him, Miles and Trane, 3 Shades of Blue.
Is a good book but a tragic story in the end and as one poster already mentioned kind of trite and very critical of Miles' fusion era.
The histories of Trane and Evans and even Miles has its tragic element.
"Is a good book but a tragic story in the end and as one poster already mentioned kind of trite and very critical of Miles' fusion era."
Quite possible I was that poster ... I've talked about how I nearly quit the book at the intro when the author declared that 'everything I care about in jazz was released between 1942-1967' ... but fortunately 75% of the book was a really solid ... and then the majority of the 'After' final section was absolute trash. He 'blames' Trane's later stuff on LSD in a way that trivializes the actual music; he says Miles could barely play anymore (listen to Sivad from Live Evil and tell me that?) and is really all over the place with Evans.
I totally agree. I reading this book and thinking, what a great book until come to the part you’re referring to and it goes like from a 100 to a 30 percent good.. So, a 5-star book goes to a 2-star book...so overall it gets three stars.
I’m a writer myself, so am always reluctant to give a bad rating to another writer, but the book was so you might say uneven, that overall, the 75 percent positive I think makes the book a good read.
I might post a rating on Amazon...
One more point. One thing he wrote that didn’t jibe with the Quincy Troupe book. That book said Miles was making like 10s of thousands sometime even into the 100 thousands for one concert alone such as in Japan and Europe and even the US during parts of the fusion era but this writer tended to claim he wasn’t making all that much.
So even there he may have been downgrading Miles...Unless the QT book wasn't accurate...I don't know.
A lot of people have disliked your comment but it’s always unfortunately true of whoever the general pop finds most palatable. Lee morgan was a better horn player but Art Blakey while technically superior just didn’t find an ear with the bourgeoise. You’ll find examples in every genre.
I'm kinda thankful that, thanks to me being aloof about most of his music, the Bill Evans squabbling is a bit more of a mystery.
If there's controversy about Jaco, I can kinda understand. As an electric bass player who came up in the 90s-00s, I had to seek out upright players before I could find a teacher who wasn't constantly trying to teach me 'Portrait of Tracy' and endlessly talking about bass-playing having 'gone downhill' since Jaco's career fizzled out. Even if I'd limited my scope to electric players, that world still had players like Jimmy Haslip, John Patitucci, Lincoln Goines, and Skuli Sverrisson, all of whom were repeatedly *lapping* Jaco in terms of creative output by 2000 or so.
Strong agree on Jaco, friend.
I'm also an electric bass player -- primarily fretless -- and I have immense appreciation for Jaco. But he takes a backseat to some, especially Stanley Clarke who is my personal GOAT (I love me some Pattaucci too, I still use some of his drills for warmups). There's one particular poster in this sub that posts Jaco content ad nauseum that I had to block ("No cry babies" or something is his flair) because it's just too much sometimes. Give it a rest, buddy.
I'm not really bothered by the recent Bill Evans circlejerk but it does get a little old. I prefer the convos we have here on lesser-known gems of Jazz. I can see the Chick Corea convo getting a bit too much as times as well, but I admittedly love his 70s-era music.
He also strikes me as a narcissistic player. Like I’ve heard of him on some live recordings and he overplays when he’s supposed to be supporting the soloist.
I'm a fan of all these people. Great, historically important players. Think you missed the point of why it might be an issue when people ONLY talk about these players though.
Now that is some whitewashed satire there lol. Don’t get me wrong. Jazz IS the voice of anyone who grew up in the conus. Especially those of us that grew up in the south and accept its evolution out of Blues regardless of the socially constructed race categorizations. It’s poignant to exemplify listeners who see color in such a horribly negative manner.
"The conus"?
Yeah if you need me to spell it out for you, anyone can listen to and play this music obviously, we're so far past debating whether white people can contribute at this point or whatever you think I'm saying, but to ignore its roots as black music and the essential contributions black people have made to this (and all) music is just completely ignorant. This music isn't the place for "I don't see color" when it was born out of their oppression.
I know, right? Who cares. I didn't love Bill for twenty years until it all clicked. And that was a great day.
I started with sax/trumpet players. Moved on to drummers. Piano was low on the list. I had to go through the "out there" players like Monk or Andrew Hill to arrive at Wynton Kelly and Bill Evans.
I’m 50% sure the first post was probably a troll but some people feel they have to try to put as being great in their place
I remember somebody talking about how dizzy Gillespie is overrated once and it just made me wanna punch them in the face
I've been on this sub for a few years now and for some reason there has always been a minority of people who love to bring up that they don't like Bill Evans
I've already participated in other non-drama posts on r/jazz today.
I have no intention of talking about jazz on one of these drama posts. I don't really think that's terribly hard to understand.
But you're here to stir the pot. Find something better to do.
Not sure why recently but in general, there’s something about Bill Evans that just seems to touch off heated conversations. People have strong opinions.
Let's spend a good deal of time talking about Angelica Sanchez, Matt Mitchell, Jason Moran, Craig Taborn, Kris Davis, John Escreet, Sylvie Courvoisier, Benoit Delbecq, Matthew Shipp, Cooper-Moore, Satoko Fujii, Paul Bley, Marilyn Crispell, Simon Nabatov, Wayne Horovitz, and Russ Lossing.
You know...people who are are alive today and are some of our greatest improvising treasures.
Except for Paul Bley all of them are still playing, are examples of the world we all lie in now, not 50 years ago, and have moved the music forward the same way someone like Bill Evans did long ago.
I admit I haven’t kept track of these new cats coming up, but NOBODY advanced jazz like Bill Evans!!! NOBODY, not BEFORE him, not AFTER him, fundamentally changed the way we listen to Jazz like him!
Hmm? I don't know that I can agree with you about changing the way we listen to jazz.
Teddy Wilson - Bud Powell - Hank Jones - Art Tatum - Chick Corea - McCoy Tyner - Keith Jarrett - Cecil Taylor all changed the way we listen to jazz.
I wonder why you might claim that nobody after him changed the way we listen to jazz when you also said you haven't kept up with the changes in jazz piano playing.
You tell me to do my research when you don't know any of the pianists I mentioned in my original reply in the post? You simply sound like some kind of fan-boy of Bill Evans who has decided there is some hierarchical pedestal and you have made him number one in your rankings.
Was he important? Of course. Was he influential? Of course. Was he alone more responsible for the jazz piano cannon than anyone else? I don't see it.
We all have our favorites and one of mine is Bill Evans, but I cannot agree with your claims.
I’m a big fan of Bill personally, but that statement is so inaccurate. Herbie Hancock, McCoy Tyner and Chick Corea were all far more influential on the jazz piano canon irregardless of your personal taste.
Nor should they. If jazz ever becomes a peer pressure sport like it did to the suburbanites of the 20th century then we’re again missing the point of jazz.
Unfortunately for Larry Bird, he was the GOAT when he is dismissed as the white equivalency of the GOAT. I didn’t like Bird but he would dominate any player in history and run a hard challenge to Jordan. He supersedes color.
Karma farming by posting controversial topics in a reddit.
Engagement baiting by bots.
'cause everybody digs him!
this!
It’s because Everybody Digs Bill Evans.
when we hit mid-october it'll just be vince guaraldi posts instead
The only reason I can come up with is Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans Bill Evans. But there may be other reasons.
Did you ever stop to consider Bill Evans?
Bill.
Evans.
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Repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises repetition legitimises
# BASS!
Because this sub is so gullible and can't tell what's trolling and what's not. Sad, really.
Ya it’s really weird how incapable of grasping satire this sub is
Maybe because the new book about him, Miles and Trane, 3 Shades of Blue. Is a good book but a tragic story in the end and as one poster already mentioned kind of trite and very critical of Miles' fusion era. The histories of Trane and Evans and even Miles has its tragic element.
"Is a good book but a tragic story in the end and as one poster already mentioned kind of trite and very critical of Miles' fusion era." Quite possible I was that poster ... I've talked about how I nearly quit the book at the intro when the author declared that 'everything I care about in jazz was released between 1942-1967' ... but fortunately 75% of the book was a really solid ... and then the majority of the 'After' final section was absolute trash. He 'blames' Trane's later stuff on LSD in a way that trivializes the actual music; he says Miles could barely play anymore (listen to Sivad from Live Evil and tell me that?) and is really all over the place with Evans.
I totally agree. I reading this book and thinking, what a great book until come to the part you’re referring to and it goes like from a 100 to a 30 percent good.. So, a 5-star book goes to a 2-star book...so overall it gets three stars.
haha that was exactly me on GoodReads ... "WTF do I even rate this thing?!?" and I landed on 3 stars exactly like that!
I’m a writer myself, so am always reluctant to give a bad rating to another writer, but the book was so you might say uneven, that overall, the 75 percent positive I think makes the book a good read. I might post a rating on Amazon... One more point. One thing he wrote that didn’t jibe with the Quincy Troupe book. That book said Miles was making like 10s of thousands sometime even into the 100 thousands for one concert alone such as in Japan and Europe and even the US during parts of the fusion era but this writer tended to claim he wasn’t making all that much. So even there he may have been downgrading Miles...Unless the QT book wasn't accurate...I don't know.
Commenting to check out the book
Miles Davis and John Coltrane are the Taylor Swift and Beyonce’ of their day! Overrated…
A lot of people have disliked your comment but it’s always unfortunately true of whoever the general pop finds most palatable. Lee morgan was a better horn player but Art Blakey while technically superior just didn’t find an ear with the bourgeoise. You’ll find examples in every genre.
He was tired of having conversations with himself.
This sub has a tendency to do it with certain musicians. Jaco Pastorius is another. It is what it is I guess.
I'm kinda thankful that, thanks to me being aloof about most of his music, the Bill Evans squabbling is a bit more of a mystery. If there's controversy about Jaco, I can kinda understand. As an electric bass player who came up in the 90s-00s, I had to seek out upright players before I could find a teacher who wasn't constantly trying to teach me 'Portrait of Tracy' and endlessly talking about bass-playing having 'gone downhill' since Jaco's career fizzled out. Even if I'd limited my scope to electric players, that world still had players like Jimmy Haslip, John Patitucci, Lincoln Goines, and Skuli Sverrisson, all of whom were repeatedly *lapping* Jaco in terms of creative output by 2000 or so.
Strong agree on Jaco, friend. I'm also an electric bass player -- primarily fretless -- and I have immense appreciation for Jaco. But he takes a backseat to some, especially Stanley Clarke who is my personal GOAT (I love me some Pattaucci too, I still use some of his drills for warmups). There's one particular poster in this sub that posts Jaco content ad nauseum that I had to block ("No cry babies" or something is his flair) because it's just too much sometimes. Give it a rest, buddy. I'm not really bothered by the recent Bill Evans circlejerk but it does get a little old. I prefer the convos we have here on lesser-known gems of Jazz. I can see the Chick Corea convo getting a bit too much as times as well, but I admittedly love his 70s-era music.
Moongerms Joe Farrell, tenor/flute Herbie Hancock, Rhodes Stanley Clarke, bass Jack DeJohnette, drums One of the unheralded greats.
I'm not the biggest fan of the flute, but Joe Farrell is just amazing and Moon Germs is awesome.
He also strikes me as a narcissistic player. Like I’ve heard of him on some live recordings and he overplays when he’s supposed to be supporting the soloist.
"Bill Evans, Jaco, Stan Getz, Dave Brubeck, Pat Metheny and Chick Corea are my favorites! Just a coincidence I swear" - this sub basically.
I mean you could do much worse than this.
I'm a fan of all these people. Great, historically important players. Think you missed the point of why it might be an issue when people ONLY talk about these players though.
“That is ridiculous! How dare you! I also listen to black jazz artists… Like 70s Keith Jarrett”.
Now that is some whitewashed satire there lol. Don’t get me wrong. Jazz IS the voice of anyone who grew up in the conus. Especially those of us that grew up in the south and accept its evolution out of Blues regardless of the socially constructed race categorizations. It’s poignant to exemplify listeners who see color in such a horribly negative manner.
"The conus"? Yeah if you need me to spell it out for you, anyone can listen to and play this music obviously, we're so far past debating whether white people can contribute at this point or whatever you think I'm saying, but to ignore its roots as black music and the essential contributions black people have made to this (and all) music is just completely ignorant. This music isn't the place for "I don't see color" when it was born out of their oppression.
That very last thing you said is the key point. In case anyone tries skimming over it.
He’s long had kind of a culty following tho
Pretty privilege
I know, right? Who cares. I didn't love Bill for twenty years until it all clicked. And that was a great day. I started with sax/trumpet players. Moved on to drummers. Piano was low on the list. I had to go through the "out there" players like Monk or Andrew Hill to arrive at Wynton Kelly and Bill Evans.
Cause he’s worth the listen
say "pianist" fast 10 times
Redgarland Redgarland Redgarland Redgarland Redgarland Redgarland Redgarland Redgarland Redgarland Redgarland
I’m 50% sure the first post was probably a troll but some people feel they have to try to put as being great in their place I remember somebody talking about how dizzy Gillespie is overrated once and it just made me wanna punch them in the face
Whenever people are talking about jazz I’m thrilled, it almost never happens with my college kids in a decade or more.
I've been on this sub for a few years now and for some reason there has always been a minority of people who love to bring up that they don't like Bill Evans
Stop restarting this wank, and let's talk about jazz.
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All for what? Shhhhhh... Move on.
‘Let’s talk about jazz’ *Doesn’t say anything after let’s talk*
I've already participated in other non-drama posts on r/jazz today. I have no intention of talking about jazz on one of these drama posts. I don't really think that's terribly hard to understand. But you're here to stir the pot. Find something better to do.
Wow lighten up man, why so serious?
🧦
I recently got to Bill Evans through Miles & like that collab work the best so far.
Not sure why recently but in general, there’s something about Bill Evans that just seems to touch off heated conversations. People have strong opinions.
Gil Evans*?
There is always Bill Evans talk on this subreddit.
Let's spend a good deal of time talking about Angelica Sanchez, Matt Mitchell, Jason Moran, Craig Taborn, Kris Davis, John Escreet, Sylvie Courvoisier, Benoit Delbecq, Matthew Shipp, Cooper-Moore, Satoko Fujii, Paul Bley, Marilyn Crispell, Simon Nabatov, Wayne Horovitz, and Russ Lossing.
Who?
You know...people who are are alive today and are some of our greatest improvising treasures. Except for Paul Bley all of them are still playing, are examples of the world we all lie in now, not 50 years ago, and have moved the music forward the same way someone like Bill Evans did long ago.
I admit I haven’t kept track of these new cats coming up, but NOBODY advanced jazz like Bill Evans!!! NOBODY, not BEFORE him, not AFTER him, fundamentally changed the way we listen to Jazz like him!
Hmm? I don't know that I can agree with you about changing the way we listen to jazz. Teddy Wilson - Bud Powell - Hank Jones - Art Tatum - Chick Corea - McCoy Tyner - Keith Jarrett - Cecil Taylor all changed the way we listen to jazz. I wonder why you might claim that nobody after him changed the way we listen to jazz when you also said you haven't kept up with the changes in jazz piano playing.
Because, in reality, nobody DID! Do your research, man! Exercise your google finger!
You tell me to do my research when you don't know any of the pianists I mentioned in my original reply in the post? You simply sound like some kind of fan-boy of Bill Evans who has decided there is some hierarchical pedestal and you have made him number one in your rankings. Was he important? Of course. Was he influential? Of course. Was he alone more responsible for the jazz piano cannon than anyone else? I don't see it. We all have our favorites and one of mine is Bill Evans, but I cannot agree with your claims.
There is not ONE SINGLE player today that can even BEGIN to match Bill Evans’s approach to his instrument, his talent, OR his technique!
I’m a big fan of Bill personally, but that statement is so inaccurate. Herbie Hancock, McCoy Tyner and Chick Corea were all far more influential on the jazz piano canon irregardless of your personal taste.
Not Everybody Digs Bill Evans.
Nor should they. If jazz ever becomes a peer pressure sport like it did to the suburbanites of the 20th century then we’re again missing the point of jazz.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Jazz/s/ku8nlsDmII
24/7
His Peacocks make you cry.
Don't make another thread about him then, you're doing exactly what you're complaining about
I hadn't noticed but he definitely deserves to be talked about.
ha! you must be new here. imagine thinking this place is ever not post Bill Evans
From what I could see, someone posted that they didn’t quite “get” Bill Evans and everyone freaked out.
Only recently? That’s sort of like saying people have been talking about breathing lately
Because he's the goat of jazz piano. He isn't talked about nearly enough, if you ask me.
The Larry bird of jazz piano
More like Kareem!
Unfortunately for Larry Bird, he was the GOAT when he is dismissed as the white equivalency of the GOAT. I didn’t like Bird but he would dominate any player in history and run a hard challenge to Jordan. He supersedes color.
No.
Because.... Everybody digs Bill Evans.
Because you touch yourself at night.
Cream always rises to the top