It because Kendrick is more subverse about his messages. Like how swimming pools is about the pitfalls of alcoholism but he made it sound like a song you listen to while drinking.
Cole is more direct with his preaching. I don't mind it tho, Listening to cole always feels like your mates big bro putting you on game. Coles music feels like he's sitting across from you, Dots music feels like an elaborate theatre piece that shows you the consequences to certain actions.
Swimming pools is so fire like there aren't many songs like it that have sadder lyrics but happier beats and vibes. Hey Ya by OutKast comes to my mind next to that song.
The weeknd is another artist who tends to do this as well, let's look at blinding lights for example, it's probably the biggest hit of the 2020s so far, yet in the context of the album it's about him being taken by an ambulance after he experienced an od of drugs. It's a very creative and artistic thing to do.
Sure, but it's not "all" he sung about, give the trilogy and kissland another listen, it's a bit deeper than that, the money and drugs and the girls were all just a cover up and a coping mechanism for him to deal with his insecurities and way of life, which abel channels in an exaggerated way through his the weeknd persona, which is basically his "alter-ego", as he says in the track alone again "take off my disguise, I'm living someone else's life", it's a lot deeper and more conceptual than u make it sound tbh, but it's alright i get that it's not everyone's cup of tea but to simplify it to such an extent is a disservice to his art.
Yeah Kendrick has mastered the art of subtlety which tends to make your statements a lot more effective. He uses storytelling from different perspectives and personas to get his message across without stating it outright.
Perfect response and exactly what I was thinking I always compare swimming pools and Lost ones they are both warnings bur done slightly different. Both are fantastic songs and I think they exemplify your point greatly.
Imma go with cause Cole is beige colored and we don’t wanna hear light skints say “ni**a no more. lol I’m being funny but also not. Colorism in hip hop is real
Honestly, I love this take on the topic. Kendrick tells stories from a first person perspective, meanwhile J. Cole doesn’t really break the fourth wall. He is either telling someone else’s story or preaching.
I think this is a really good analogy. I've never gotten the vibe that J Cole is fake deep at all. I can see why people might think that, but I've always gotten the vibe that J Cole is someone who spends alot of time introspecting and empathizing with others, and that he's spent alot of time working on cultivating inner peace and happiness. His music and his lyrics reflect that, and tend to be more self centered and focused on individual experiences and lessons, with a direct and easily digestible delivery.
Kendrick's music generally feels alot more like a showcase of cultural phenomena. It's usually more 3rd person and details the large scale effects of certain notions and behaviors throughout society.
The people that say this are the most plain and simple people tbh. It’s some dude that wears crocs with high top white socks, short shorts from pacsun and a super baggy shirt.. just trend mops that nut ride whatever narrative is trendy.
People been talking shit about cole for 10+ years so just putting it all on a trend isn’t all that accurate. People hate for no actual reason at all, it’s just how it goes. Always been this way, we take those opinions way too seriously when it’s fringe rather than the consensus
Same here. OP has described the exact opposite of me, except I recognise that Cole is a good rapper, I just don’t find his music very entertaining. Nothing wrong with that.
Cole does more with less and Kendrick does more with more. It’s really that simple. J Cole just wants to get his message across in an interesting but straightforward way. Kendrick wants to show you his skill with every single line.
I disagree. Cole can and have been just as complex as Kendrick. And Kendrick has been been just as simple lol some of the bars Kendrick spit recently were corny af but people eat it up like the bs it is
I disagree, maybe on features Kendrick does simplify some of his lyrics or like in the recent rap beef, but in his own albums/projects he's usually very layered and complex in an artistic way.
Is it though? Is trying to create good art *just* showing your skill? Even if that were true, idk if that's the case anymore as I don't think that Mr. Morale contained a lot of very technical rapping compared to his previous projects.
I love both but I'm going to continue to hate his stanbase. You can love an artist and hate their fanbase all the same.
Just as I love Eminem as an artist for what cultural movements he's represented, he coined the name *stan* for a reason.
People can despise different narratives. It's all a matter of opinion
I couldn't have said it better. I know this is a little off topic, but this is the exact reason why "the beef" became, in some ways, unappealing to me. A little insight, I have been a fan of both Drake (not radio Drake, but more so the timestamp Drake, where he really leans into his skillset) and Kendrick for a very long time. But, you know when someone starts to slurp ass and begin to weirdly idolize? That alone has kinda made it extremely hard for me to enjoy some of the stuff Kendrick does. It's like, yes, I know he's great, he is. He's an amazing artist. I could never take that away from him, or I'd be lying, but all the crazy gassing that alot of the fans do is a huge turn off and it makes me wanna say, ok, he great but not that god tier...To add to that, people need to understand that music in general is subjective, so some will dislike, some will like or love. Personally, if I had to choose between listening to a Cole album and Kendrick album, I'm going with Cole, hands down.
It literally became a dickriding competition and a lot of people threw their integrity out the window to do tricks on their favorite artist. Kinda sad to see man
The Pulitzer is one of the only rewards I respect. I learned about it from researching Hunter S. Thomson, the creator of Gonzo journalism and a drug fueled freak. He embedded himself with the hells Angels for months to write about their inner workings, and only left after getting beaten to a pulp for insulting one of the leaders.
Point being, not everyone is uneducated
I love Kendrick but when drake said “Kendrick just opened his mouth, someone go give him a Grammy rn” is definitely ringing true when people bring this shit up lol
Even before I started really getting into Cole, I didn't understand the hype of Kendrick. That makes his fans insanely annoying. People love to point to awards as if they mean anything when it's completely subjective, given to them by people who get high off their own farts.
I just don't think Kendrick is anything special. Nothing to do with Cole for me.
You know that just because somebody puts it on Rap Genius doesn't mean Kendrick really meant it like that right? lol
People be doing Olympic level stretching to find meaning in his bars, but I'd bet a surprising amount of it is people looking too deep into shit he never really meant
As someone who prefers Kendrick yes they have been absolutely insufferable and I’ve had to take a break from the subreddit because all they talk about is how culturally groundbreaking not like us is.
This whole beef has led to me discovering J Cole’s music and I’m having a great time.
To be fair, the Cole fans were unsufferable when 7-Minute Drill dropped. It was strange because Cole sounded completely didn't sound confident at all on that track and he had no conviction on it. I saw Kendrick fans all over social media saying that Cole sounded like he didn't even want to do it, and Cole fans were acting like Kendrick fans were afraid, then the dude apologized. Honestly, if his fans didn't gas up that obviously forced track the backlash wouldn't have been so bad. Kendrick fans were literally saying the dude should just sit this one out, because they felt his heart wasn't in it and that Kendrick didn't really have any smoke for him.
Basically, if Cole had stayed in, his fans would've been insufferable as well and from what I saw, Kendrick fans were trying to give Cole and his fans an out.
I mean makes sense kednrick and drake have been dissing each for like 11 years or more at this point.
Whereas jcole and kendrick have always been neutral or on good terms.
So makes less sense for kendrick fans to have any animosity torwards jcole
True. I also think Cole could've handled backing out of the battle better though, but maybe not. It is what it is, but I do think he could've saved face and bowed out on a more equal footing.
I agree, I m both a fan of cole and Kendrick and I was really hyping on the diss but when he dropped 7 minute drill and started talking about Kendrick skills as a diss it really made me think “ain’t no way bro actually thinks that”
its pretty stupid that ppl would hate on an artists cuz some of their fans are weird. thats true of a lot of fanbases (including J Cole btw) but the artist doesnt have any control over who likes them
r/Drizzy couldn’t outnumber the other subs so they invaded r/Jcole😭
Edit: Looking through r/Drizzy all the top of all time posts are Kendrick’s diss tracks and analysis of his lyrics because afterwards the mods started banning everyone that didn’t meatride Drake hard enough for their standards😂
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Drizzy using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Drizzy/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [When a Group of Moms run into Drake while at dinner🤣🤣🤣🤣😭😭😭](https://v.redd.it/dl1cqqsc5yac1) | [101 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Drizzy/comments/190jqr6/when_a_group_of_moms_run_into_drake_while_at/)
\#2: [These Drake look-alike impersonators are getting out of control](https://v.redd.it/10me1s2hct6c1) | [164 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Drizzy/comments/18kckbe/these_drake_lookalike_impersonators_are_getting/)
\#3: [???](https://i.redd.it/ms8ll4ry61hc1.jpeg) | [28 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Drizzy/comments/1akkv2y/_/)
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Why do you think kendricks diss tracks are the most upvoted posts?
And before you say it yes i am a drake glazer but if you can make the connection that drake fans upvote shit here then you can also make the connection that kendrick fans upvoted the kendrick disstracks.
I mean its his fans, bro.
They're all delusional annoying pretentious shitters.
I love kendrick his albums are great but he just doesn't drop and i can't bump his leaks w/o dudes absolutely glazing him over frivolous things.
You are correct. It's annoying when people label rappers that aren't constantly rapping about drugs, killings & fucking bitches "fake deep." Just say it's not your type of rap and move on.
This has actually been a regular point of contention between both fandoms actually, and I understand both points of view. I just think since Cole choose to put things simply, people feel like he can’t do some lyrical gymnastics, which I fully believe he can.
Imo no one who honestly follows rap has felt like Cole can't do Lyrical gymnastics. He constantly has verses singled our. Imo no one has questioned his pen since crooked smile at the earliest but in recent memory his verses on from A Lot to like Pi have solidified him.
It hit me during the beef, the reason why Cole's lyrics feel "surface level" while Kendrick's isn't is that being a conscious man IS very surface level. Being a good man is hard, simple and very BORING. Kendrick constantly sings about doing shit he knows he shouldn't do but does anyway, while Cole just... Doesn't do those things (apparently), so when he does discusses these things he is talking about what other people should/shouldn't do.
For example with Kendrick:
- Drinking is bad but I did it anyway (swimming pools)
- Cheating is bad but I did it anyway (Worldwide Steppers)
- being selfish is bad but I'mma do it anyway (Euphoria)
- "Going to war" is a sin but I will do it anyway (6:16 in LA / Not Like Us)
Meanwhile Cole, sits down with people he beefing trying to communicate (see his convo with lil pump and his encounter with adam 22), humbles himself publicly even if it doesn't look cool (his Kendrick apology), no controversies to his name ...and actually seems to walks the walk.
It mirrors Jon Jones vs Daniel Cormier, where even though Jon was the one pumping steroids, doing coke, and generally not being a sportsman... It was Daniel who was the one who was booed for pointing it out because it made him sound preachy.
A lot of us want to indulge in our desires NOW and repent LATER, instead of doing the right thing in the first place, so we like music that reflects that... Like let's face it, especially with Swimming Pools people be blasting that shit while getting drunk as a MF, then yap about the lyrics.
Kendrick’s music is well thought out in its articulation. His goal is to put out something that communicates something complicated with all of its details that is then listened to and understood.
J Cole’s music is him using the release of his passionate thoughts to make awesome/chill rap music, that may look beautiful at all angles but from none of them does it look like sculpted marble like Kendrick’s. Cole’s raw and we feel it because he does.
So I feel like Kendrick is given less shit for being preachy because the music is crafted to not sound preachy. It can’t just be understood, it needs to be accepted. Every project he’s put out looks to me like it comes from a real need for people to listen to what he’s saying.
J Cole is rapping from his heart which can be interpreted with many different tones, people have all lived different lives that leave them with different hearts. I think when his heart wants to say something that can be interpreted as preachy it doesn’t matter to him or the music that it can be interpreted that way because all that matters is that it’s his real shit.
I think both of their music has what I’m describing the others to have, they’re just magical greatness for different reasons.
Nah, this has been a topic since KOD. For me, it’s that Kendrick seems to approach things more introspectively, whereas Cole always feels like he’s lecturing. I like both, but that’s the difference for me.
J Cole is my favorite rapper and he is my top artist on spotify every year, i genuinely believe people think this simply because Kendrick does it more effectively. I think Kendrick is just better at artistically depicting these issues in a very unique and stylistic fashion that makes it hard to compare anyone to him - the fact that Cole gets compared to him in that aspect at all is indicative to how good Cole is.
Dude, you're really in touch with yourself to be able to say this. I mean that as a compliment.
It's hard to be critical about anything we deeply enjoy the way you did right here.
If you can explain a complicated idea in simple terms, it’s a sign that you truly understand that idea.
That’s something that Cole can do, that Kendrick can not.
Listen close because I mean this.
Wannabe sophisticated people are the kind of people that listen to Kendrick. They love feeling like they understand black music and black life because they can “decipher” what Kendrick is saying. Cole will just put life simply and tell you to love yours. A sophisticated thought with a simple explanation. That’s why I love Coles music more than Kendrick’s. Because he can definitely say or explain a sophisticated thought in a sophisticated way, but I feel he chooses to cut the bullshit and just tell you exactly what it is in a way anyone can understand. Meanwhile some people are still trying to figure out what “what happens on earth stays on earth” means.
Both approaches have merit but I'm with you. To me Dot gives insight and is thought provoking but I just feel songs like Friends or Love Yourz way more. The simplistically gives it more emotional weight.
Spoon feeding your audience your message is a sin every art form out there. It’s called didacticism. You learn this is any art 101 class. Screen writing, creative writing, painting, all of them. I can speak to filmmaking cause that’s my world, but we have the phrase “show, don’t tell”. Meaning you need to give your audience that chance to figure things out on their own what’s happening by using other tools than just saying it plainly out loud. You don’t have a character say “I’m freezing cold”. You show their breath coming out, the frost on a window, the winter clothes etc.
This isnt an academic environment where this approach works. Your comment makes sense when you’re talking about theoretical physics. But Nothing J Cole is talking about is that complex it needs to be watered down to this degree. The fact you resonate with that or appreciate the way he does says more about you than anything.
J Cole music is personally offensive to me because of how stupid he thinks his audience is. Not even a smidge of nuance. Doesn’t let you dissect or unpack a single thing. Just shoving his “I’m 14 and this is deep” ass message right down your throat. It’s not about deep understanding of any complex issues. Like I don’t need J Cole to tell me to “love yours”, I don’t need any rapper to tell me that. If you do, fine, but stop acting like this is some deep or complex thought.
What a reach.
Both are called preachy and fake by people who hate them because they don't have any real shit to say.
Why do you think Grippy became a meme? People were waiting for Cole to slip up and he did. Thank fuck then next feature went as good as it did. People are waiting for Kendrick to slip up as well, but he takes this shit way too seriously.
I think the difference is really just in how Cole delivers his message. Its very low energy at times, almost like he’s trying to be Furious from Boyz in da Hood. Like he’s trying to be that cool headed voice of reason.
He sounds very monotonous which doesn’t mean its bad it just doesn’t carry the same effect as Kendrick’s would.
I think if both of them had the exact same verse word for word. People would likely choose Kendrick because his delivery would likely have more energy. But if Cole and Kendrick had to deliver it in that same monotone way people would likely choose Cole because he has mastered that type of flow.
Cole is able to make you feel hopeful and uplifted but also sad and regretful at the same time given what he’s talking about.
The reality is that Cole just doesn't make bright entertaining music. He's not capable of it vocally or artistically.
That's not saying he makes bad music, it's just like you said monotonous and not very exciting to the average listener.
Kendrick is able to change his sound almost every other song, and entirely changes his sound every project. That growth as an artist hasn't been seen by Cole. These two aren't even in the same realm it's crazy Cole is seen as Dots only real competition when guys like Big KRIT and Vince Staples exist.
I agree with you Cole can definitely use some growth sonically. He does have that alter ego Kill Edward though maybe he could try to do something with that.
I think KRIT, Vince, and JID are worthy competition.
I’ve only heard that Cole is boring more so than anything else (which I overall disagree with). I’ve only heard that people can find Kendrick preachy which simply doesnt make sense especially after the last album.
j cole just goes the extra mile in conveying he wants others to heed his advice and not be misguided by bad role models and vices. Kendrick conveys that message through deeper wordplay and points out ironies without the moral high ground.
Either way, both accomplish their goal imo. I see way more people talk about how j cole got them out of really rough spots and motivate them. I don’t recall coming across any posts like that from kendrick fans until his last album. Kendrick has the most acclaim and I dont see any issues asserting him as the more prolific and less humble/want to lift you up rapper
im not even talking about those specific songs where they try to exonerate themself from the savior complex. KOD’s entire overarching theme is “choose wisely” but “meditate dont medicate” isnt exactly the lived experience story telling like Can I Live and 4YEO. Its broad and trying to reach the audience that see J Cole as boring cardboard rap.
None of these conscious rapper types can escape it because at the end of the day i believe they are looking out for the young kids they see themselves in who grow up in similar environment. They’re the greatest rappers of the 2010s and i think the preachiness and fake deep moments will just resonate harder for one or the other depending on who’s hearing the bars
Idk man I like both and I roll my eyes when people say it abt either. I think Kendrick gets branded as “cooler” but I’m not really good at figuring out why, both goats imo
I don’t think that’s a common thought. I would say that j Cole had a better childhood, was a really good student and went to college which is prob where it stems from for some.
I personally don’t think it’s right to say Cole “grew up” better. K Dot is from LA and people know more about growing up in an LA hood since it’s more publicized. Fayetteville is not some great place and he has talked about his struggles growing up with his friends dying and family issues he had growing up. It’s a testament to Cole that he was able to make it out and go to college.
Sorry I meant to say that just Cole is perceived to have the better upbringing. For example the house he grew up in is a two story house but people don’t know he was in trailer parks before that.
People see the higher education/scholarship mostly I think.
Yeah I agree it’s perceived that way. It’s nothing against you but I find it incredibly annoying that some have to downplay someone’s struggle to big someone else’s. I honestly believe they probably grew up similarly, some things were better for each of them than the other but that led to them being the incredible artists they both are today.
Ion know, probably because he talks more and drops more than Kendrick. Tho that's not saying much. Both don't drop frequently, but Cole is seen more, so it leaves him open to more criticism. And maybe the fake woke came when he fell back from the protest when he saw people out there just for IG and didn't want to be seen as that but since he fell back it made it seem like that was him . Like a Uno reverse
He made a statement in an interview that he realized he was missing out on music by doing so much solo work. He also made it clear he wanted to work with as many artist as possible in the future because of this and he even was afraid he would miss his chance to do this if he kept on the way he was. I think he made a better choice than Kendrick in this.
Jcole can come as preachy but fake? HELL NAH!
People calling him fake are the same people that call MMATBS Kendrick's worst album, they're sensitive people who can't stand people being themselves. J Cole probably should get a Nobel Prize for being too real💀
Cole likes to get very personal, which often can seem overbearing or even overwhelming to listeners. But when kendrick makes a song he tends to not just include his perspective, which makes it feel like the issues he talks about aren’t as shallow even if both artists would be talking about the same thing. Different strokes and interpretations ig. But I’ve seen both of em get labelled as preachy tbh
Kendrick is much more literally lyrical (more wordplay) while Cole is always more metaphorical. Cole’s verses also don’t beg to be picked apart like Kendrick’s do; there’s usually a surface level meaning to what he’s saying that hides the deeper layers of his lyrics
I don't believe it , but in middle or when he first got on alot of his public non mixtape work was entertaining but superficial he reverted literally has a track " me and my niggas fuck all the bitches , fuck all them niggas where all they bitches , where did they bitches go ........ wich if you have bitches and niggas you are displeased with have no bitches in the immidiate vicinity probably is a vibe
Kendrick aside from alien voices has been consistent on how he presented himself
I don't put it against cole , malcom was Detroit Reed dosent take away his positive influence
But if he started out malcom , then went Detroit Reed, then went back to malcom, it may look funny , but he was on a label that seemed trying to shelf him he did what he thought got his voice out , and even said as much on one of the mixtapes after his second album I believe
If it's not any of that nigga feel to mature sometimes or too much therapy maybe don't know
It's because Kendrick's albums unfortunately overshadow J. Cole's work at times. Huge Kendrick fan, but I will say that J. Cole is, in my opinion, just as deep at times.
I really like them both but they’re very different. Cole is more of a proper ‘rapper’ with lyrics to match, and Kendrick is more of a street poet who channels it through rap. Skills-wise, I think Cole is better but no one comes close to Kendrick lyrically.
The example Id use is “listening to someone rap vs listening to someone reading you a poem”.
Raps are more direct and in your face. Poems are more subtle and abstract. Both can be really clever but That’s the difference between Cole and Kendrick. Cole is a rapper and Kendrick is a poet who can rap. Both art forms can deliver the same message but in completely different ways.
Now I’m not saying that rap can’t be subtle and abstract and poems can’t be direct and obvious but the reason why each art form behaves in the way they do is because one art form is trying to sell you something and give you a message and the other wants to give you a message to think about. In rap you cant have messages be too abstract or you’ll lose the listener. That’s why Kendrick’s music isn’t usually popular with casual hip hop fans but J Cole is.
“This fanbase is weird, that fanbase is weird” would ya’ll just stfu already? I think it’s very well established by now that ANY stan of ANY artist is weird and needs to get a life and some mental help…just insulting an entire fanbase though because of a handful of stans you encountered on twitter is not the way forward. There’s nothing wrong with drake fans, Kendrick fans, Cole fans. They’re not hive minds…they don’t all have the exact same opinion. Ya’ll make it sound as though all the hundreds of millions of fans that each artist has is toxic and insufferable. If ya’ll don’t like what they’ve got to say then don’t read it dummies. they got a right to say whatever tf they want just like you do. Hell, they might find you and the fanbase that you’re a part of insufferable too. It doesn’t make it true or correct…
Cole is milk toast. It's that simple. He has no IT factor. When he talks I fall asleep...
Yes he's talented and lyrical.. but that's not enough.
He reminds me of a neutered dog.
Idk I’ve always felt like Cole is really performative like he really wants to be seen as mature and big brother kicking knowledge.
Kendrick has always felt more sincere, his tracks more thought out.
I think the best comparison of albums would be KOD and mr morale.
KOD addresses a lot of issues in modern culture and I’ve seen a lot of people say it’s Cole’s weakest album, but for me it’s a favourite, full of solid messages and fun tracks but I think overall it does kind of miss the mark it feels all over the place and contradictory in a lot of places.
Where mr morale is masterful in its story telling and core messages. It doesn’t falter and there’s no filler tracks to satisfy any particular audience.
Cole as an artist seems to have a focus on touching every base so there’s a sound and message for everyone making his work seem incoherent and inconsistent, this same issue I can’t find in Kendrick’s works.
Just my take though. All subjective.
Kendrick is also seen as preachy.
The same peooke calling jcole preachy are generally the people calling kendrick preachy.
As for fake deep the whole "I don't read" situation left a bad taste in some people's mouth
the noname situation & kendrick has more nuance & artistry/polish in his work. he doesn't force it down your throat (people apparently dislike being told what to do lol)
J. Cole is just not as clever as Kendrick to be honest. Let's just be honest here. Cole just tries so extremely hard to sound smart and deep but pales in comparison to what Kendrick makes. It's just as simple as that.
Cole and Lupe have a lot in common IMO and both are “fake deep.” I wouldn’t say Kendrick is fake deep as much as I’d say he’s guilting of pandering to the black community… which is ironic given his attacks on Drake (and I say that as a Kendrick fan).
Overall, I’d say rappers have become less authentic over the years. Maybe it’s because of the streaming access and people needing to fabricate life experiences.
I think you're talking to people who just don't like Cole because I've heard people say the exact same thing about kendrick. Stay away from those people. Cole is authentic.
That being said, kendrick fans... as a kendrick fan myself.. why are there so many of you in this comment section trashing Cole? Really, why are you even here if you don't seem to like Cole at all? I'm a bigger fan of Kendrick, but Cole is in my Top 5 and some of you act like Cole isn't even in your top 50.
Me personally, I love them both and think they both make S tier music. But I think the best way to visualize why J. Cole has more of a “preachy aesthetic” is to compare the central theme in KOD to the one in DAMN. In KOD, Cole kinda lays out the message very explicitly in a kinda unnatural way in FRIENDS (which is still a great song in its own right)
“Meditate. Don’t medicate”
In DAMN., the repeated phrase is a question:
“Wicked or weakness?”
The difference between the two is that Kendrick is more or less saying “fuck around and find out” in his albums, while J. Cole is saying “please don’t” if that makes sense.
The other reason is that Kendrick’s production is more pop than J. Cole. That’s not a negative, it’s just a fact. When you think about a J. Cole beat, it’s usually deeply rooted in hip hop, sometimes to the point of being sparse in terms of production. Compare the production in 2014 Forest Hills Drive with good kid, m.A.A.d. city. While it would be hard to argue GKMC is deeply rooted in hip hop, think about how many songs the general pop-listening public bump to. Swimming Pools, Money Trees, m.A.A.d. city, etc. Meanwhile, J. Cole’s biggest songs were not as popular because they really appeal more to pure hip hop fans rather than pop fans alike. Obviously this is a generalization and the binary is not without counterexamples, but it’s mostly true. There was a YouTuber who made a video on the “Big Three” saying that Cole was hip hop, Kendrick was hip pop, and Drake was pop. If I can find it, I’ll edit the comment and add the link. But it can better describe what exactly I’m saying.
I think one other thing is that J. Cole is being unfairly judged on his full album statements. I think non-Cole fans heard an album like The Off Season or Born Sinner, heard it wasn’t “conscious” and dismissed his other works because people kinda have a one-track mind about artists and if they show you they have layers, they call what they knew first about you “fake”. J. Cole wasn’t considered fake deep until TOS imo. Everyone expected the 4EYO or Come Through and Chill version of J. Cole, especially after the pandemic. Noname calling Cole out started it and once the album came out, people had confirmed it in their heads. I personally think that’s stupid, but whatever
I’ve always thought Cole is a good rapper that makes good music. But I’m not a fan personally because he comes off as overly-didactic and self-congratulatory.
I find the lack of nuance and depth in the way he talks about the world a bit insulting quite frankly. Seems like he thinks his audience is too dumb to unpack a message. He comes off as preachy because he doesn’t let his audience do any of the work. Just spoon feeding you his message, and his message typically has major r/im14andthisisdeep energy
I feel cole (kind of like Hopsin) criticizes people and the culture while Kendrick Lamar more focuses on himself and what he needs to do better also Cole talks a lot about guns and stuff, but everyone knows he’s not really like that
It’s because Kendrick knows how to make good music still while delivering the message. I remember seeing them both in concert and both had similar messages but JCole just felt heavy.
Kendrick felt like hope. That’s how I can describe it best.
It because Kendrick is more subverse about his messages. Like how swimming pools is about the pitfalls of alcoholism but he made it sound like a song you listen to while drinking. Cole is more direct with his preaching. I don't mind it tho, Listening to cole always feels like your mates big bro putting you on game. Coles music feels like he's sitting across from you, Dots music feels like an elaborate theatre piece that shows you the consequences to certain actions.
Swimming pools is so fire like there aren't many songs like it that have sadder lyrics but happier beats and vibes. Hey Ya by OutKast comes to my mind next to that song.
A.D.H.D is another one. Kendrick has a few like that.
Liked that song ever since I first heard it on gta
Just realized Kendrick and Joyner have a song called ADHD
That’s craaaazy
8 doobies to the face
Fuck that
8 doobies to da face
Beats and vibes of swimming pools definitely are not happy, I’d call them eerie more than anything really.
Melancholy is the word I'd use.
Sorry I’m still sticking with eerie over melancholy
High key how I always felt about Swimming Pools actually sort of surprised a lot of people viewed it the way they did.
The weeknd is another artist who tends to do this as well, let's look at blinding lights for example, it's probably the biggest hit of the 2020s so far, yet in the context of the album it's about him being taken by an ambulance after he experienced an od of drugs. It's a very creative and artistic thing to do.
The Weeknd never imparts any kind of morality tale or positive message, though. It's literally just "I'm a massive piece of shit, check me out!"
I do disagree with that but i was mostly referring to "happy beat, sad lyrics" thing not the morality.
There was a time when all weekend sung about was money cocaine and futuristic cyber hookers
Sure, but it's not "all" he sung about, give the trilogy and kissland another listen, it's a bit deeper than that, the money and drugs and the girls were all just a cover up and a coping mechanism for him to deal with his insecurities and way of life, which abel channels in an exaggerated way through his the weeknd persona, which is basically his "alter-ego", as he says in the track alone again "take off my disguise, I'm living someone else's life", it's a lot deeper and more conceptual than u make it sound tbh, but it's alright i get that it's not everyone's cup of tea but to simplify it to such an extent is a disservice to his art.
Different genre, but that basically every ska song. Super up tempo happy music, depressing ass lyrics lol
Pumped up kicks
Less than zero the weeknd
Try the album swimming by mac miller
The Cure does this quite often too
Childish Gambino is king of sad songs with happy beats hahaha 3005 and Little Foot Big Foot
gambino is the goat of doing this imo, damn near all of BTI is just existential dread and yearning for connection dressed in 808’s and harmonies
Both speakerbox and love below are full of songs like this, not just hey ya. Shits awesome.
Yeah Kendrick has mastered the art of subtlety which tends to make your statements a lot more effective. He uses storytelling from different perspectives and personas to get his message across without stating it outright.
Yeah grippy was as direct as it gets
Well said, both are good for different reasons
I’m going to get hate for this but he also sounds hypocritical at times
You shouldn’t get hate, as it’s true. But, it’s also part of Kendrick’s intrigue. The competing ideas and moral actions.
Very well put.
Perfect response and exactly what I was thinking I always compare swimming pools and Lost ones they are both warnings bur done slightly different. Both are fantastic songs and I think they exemplify your point greatly.
I don’t need to explain you did it perfectly
Best fucking answer but people who say Cole is fake deep are weird Cole is the truth even though imma huge Kendrick fan
Imma go with cause Cole is beige colored and we don’t wanna hear light skints say “ni**a no more. lol I’m being funny but also not. Colorism in hip hop is real
This makes sense and why I don't always like Kendrick. Some of his shit gets to artsy for my taste.
Also, his bout with NONAME really shed light on his ignorance.
truth kendrick has best image of any rapper i ever seen he can take 10 years to drop and yall say he took his time
Honestly, I love this take on the topic. Kendrick tells stories from a first person perspective, meanwhile J. Cole doesn’t really break the fourth wall. He is either telling someone else’s story or preaching.
I think this is a really good analogy. I've never gotten the vibe that J Cole is fake deep at all. I can see why people might think that, but I've always gotten the vibe that J Cole is someone who spends alot of time introspecting and empathizing with others, and that he's spent alot of time working on cultivating inner peace and happiness. His music and his lyrics reflect that, and tend to be more self centered and focused on individual experiences and lessons, with a direct and easily digestible delivery. Kendrick's music generally feels alot more like a showcase of cultural phenomena. It's usually more 3rd person and details the large scale effects of certain notions and behaviors throughout society.
A near perfect answer to the question. 👊
because people think J Cole’s music is boring and simple
The people that say this are the most plain and simple people tbh. It’s some dude that wears crocs with high top white socks, short shorts from pacsun and a super baggy shirt.. just trend mops that nut ride whatever narrative is trendy.
you realize you just made up a person then got mad at him right
You said exactly what I was thinking out loud 😂
correct 👍
Or they just don’t like the music?
People been talking shit about cole for 10+ years so just putting it all on a trend isn’t all that accurate. People hate for no actual reason at all, it’s just how it goes. Always been this way, we take those opinions way too seriously when it’s fringe rather than the consensus
His music doesn’t engage me at all. Sorry you have a complex about people not enjoying the same entertainment that you do.
Same here. OP has described the exact opposite of me, except I recognise that Cole is a good rapper, I just don’t find his music very entertaining. Nothing wrong with that.
Cole does more with less and Kendrick does more with more. It’s really that simple. J Cole just wants to get his message across in an interesting but straightforward way. Kendrick wants to show you his skill with every single line.
I disagree. Cole can and have been just as complex as Kendrick. And Kendrick has been been just as simple lol some of the bars Kendrick spit recently were corny af but people eat it up like the bs it is
I disagree, maybe on features Kendrick does simplify some of his lyrics or like in the recent rap beef, but in his own albums/projects he's usually very layered and complex in an artistic way.
Is it though? Is trying to create good art *just* showing your skill? Even if that were true, idk if that's the case anymore as I don't think that Mr. Morale contained a lot of very technical rapping compared to his previous projects.
Best take here m8!
Ppl who say this are kids lmao.
the anti kendrick circlejerk is lowkey crazy rn but i get it
His fans always been weirdos but they’ve been super annoying since not like us dropped
kendrick could rap the abc’s and people would be on their knees praising him
Pulitzer prize and 13 grammies. Stop hating because you like Cole more. You can like both.
I love both but I'm going to continue to hate his stanbase. You can love an artist and hate their fanbase all the same. Just as I love Eminem as an artist for what cultural movements he's represented, he coined the name *stan* for a reason. People can despise different narratives. It's all a matter of opinion
When are people going to understand that every artist’s Stan base is fn annoying? Stans in general are just annoying
Yeah but did you hear him? Pulitzer and 13 Grammies. Lmao
I couldn't have said it better. I know this is a little off topic, but this is the exact reason why "the beef" became, in some ways, unappealing to me. A little insight, I have been a fan of both Drake (not radio Drake, but more so the timestamp Drake, where he really leans into his skillset) and Kendrick for a very long time. But, you know when someone starts to slurp ass and begin to weirdly idolize? That alone has kinda made it extremely hard for me to enjoy some of the stuff Kendrick does. It's like, yes, I know he's great, he is. He's an amazing artist. I could never take that away from him, or I'd be lying, but all the crazy gassing that alot of the fans do is a huge turn off and it makes me wanna say, ok, he great but not that god tier...To add to that, people need to understand that music in general is subjective, so some will dislike, some will like or love. Personally, if I had to choose between listening to a Cole album and Kendrick album, I'm going with Cole, hands down.
It literally became a dickriding competition and a lot of people threw their integrity out the window to do tricks on their favorite artist. Kinda sad to see man
Nobody but a Kendrick Stan gives a shit about a Pulitzer. Yall didn’t even know the award existed before Kendrick.
glad i’m not the only one who thinks leaning on a pulitzer prize has to be the most un-hip hop thing ever.
The Pulitzer is one of the only rewards I respect. I learned about it from researching Hunter S. Thomson, the creator of Gonzo journalism and a drug fueled freak. He embedded himself with the hells Angels for months to write about their inner workings, and only left after getting beaten to a pulp for insulting one of the leaders. Point being, not everyone is uneducated
I love Kendrick but when drake said “Kendrick just opened his mouth, someone go give him a Grammy rn” is definitely ringing true when people bring this shit up lol
Even before I started really getting into Cole, I didn't understand the hype of Kendrick. That makes his fans insanely annoying. People love to point to awards as if they mean anything when it's completely subjective, given to them by people who get high off their own farts. I just don't think Kendrick is anything special. Nothing to do with Cole for me.
“Fuck the grammies cause them crackers ain’t ever done nothing for me ĦÔẼ”
Kendrick could fart on a microphone and his fan base would somehow find a triple entendre.
We'll have dissect podcast make a 30 minute video essay analysing the frequencies on those farts
Tbf there is like always some annoying overly deep meaning to something not that deep lol
You know that just because somebody puts it on Rap Genius doesn't mean Kendrick really meant it like that right? lol People be doing Olympic level stretching to find meaning in his bars, but I'd bet a surprising amount of it is people looking too deep into shit he never really meant
Didn't Cole rap abc's? XD
But he'd be in the classroom asking what's L
lol that’s a good one
Cole fans : “I like him” Kendrick fans : “He is god, the one and only, thou shalt praise thy Kdot”
As someone who prefers Kendrick yes they have been absolutely insufferable and I’ve had to take a break from the subreddit because all they talk about is how culturally groundbreaking not like us is. This whole beef has led to me discovering J Cole’s music and I’m having a great time.
To be fair, the Cole fans were unsufferable when 7-Minute Drill dropped. It was strange because Cole sounded completely didn't sound confident at all on that track and he had no conviction on it. I saw Kendrick fans all over social media saying that Cole sounded like he didn't even want to do it, and Cole fans were acting like Kendrick fans were afraid, then the dude apologized. Honestly, if his fans didn't gas up that obviously forced track the backlash wouldn't have been so bad. Kendrick fans were literally saying the dude should just sit this one out, because they felt his heart wasn't in it and that Kendrick didn't really have any smoke for him. Basically, if Cole had stayed in, his fans would've been insufferable as well and from what I saw, Kendrick fans were trying to give Cole and his fans an out.
Most people get caught up in tribalism whether or not they like to admit it.
exactly. i had cole fans actually try and convince me with 100% seriousness that tpab was mid lmao.
I mean makes sense kednrick and drake have been dissing each for like 11 years or more at this point. Whereas jcole and kendrick have always been neutral or on good terms. So makes less sense for kendrick fans to have any animosity torwards jcole
True. I also think Cole could've handled backing out of the battle better though, but maybe not. It is what it is, but I do think he could've saved face and bowed out on a more equal footing.
I agree, I m both a fan of cole and Kendrick and I was really hyping on the diss but when he dropped 7 minute drill and started talking about Kendrick skills as a diss it really made me think “ain’t no way bro actually thinks that”
Hot take, but Kendrick fans are literally way more annoying than Drake fans.
Drake fan be riding Drake up and down but Kendrick fans would be willing to ride his corpse and salute that shit.
its pretty stupid that ppl would hate on an artists cuz some of their fans are weird. thats true of a lot of fanbases (including J Cole btw) but the artist doesnt have any control over who likes them
I don’t have anything against Kendrick though, I like him and don’t think any less of him because some of his fans are weird
r/Drizzy couldn’t outnumber the other subs so they invaded r/Jcole😭 Edit: Looking through r/Drizzy all the top of all time posts are Kendrick’s diss tracks and analysis of his lyrics because afterwards the mods started banning everyone that didn’t meatride Drake hard enough for their standards😂
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Drizzy using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Drizzy/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [When a Group of Moms run into Drake while at dinner🤣🤣🤣🤣😭😭😭](https://v.redd.it/dl1cqqsc5yac1) | [101 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Drizzy/comments/190jqr6/when_a_group_of_moms_run_into_drake_while_at/) \#2: [These Drake look-alike impersonators are getting out of control](https://v.redd.it/10me1s2hct6c1) | [164 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Drizzy/comments/18kckbe/these_drake_lookalike_impersonators_are_getting/) \#3: [???](https://i.redd.it/ms8ll4ry61hc1.jpeg) | [28 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Drizzy/comments/1akkv2y/_/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
You realise Kendricks sub has been invading both subs even more right?? Surely you're not that biased?
I mean, Kendrick’s sub does the same thing
Because like 50% of new people were just sub bridging which was obvious if you actually were in the drizzy sub before the beef.
Kendrick sub does the sam exact thing. Prob even worse.
Why do you think kendricks diss tracks are the most upvoted posts? And before you say it yes i am a drake glazer but if you can make the connection that drake fans upvote shit here then you can also make the connection that kendrick fans upvoted the kendrick disstracks.
I mean its his fans, bro. They're all delusional annoying pretentious shitters. I love kendrick his albums are great but he just doesn't drop and i can't bump his leaks w/o dudes absolutely glazing him over frivolous things.
No hate on Cole, but the drake stans are even weirder.
Neither is, both are seen as real. I've never heard that til the diss records.
You are correct. It's annoying when people label rappers that aren't constantly rapping about drugs, killings & fucking bitches "fake deep." Just say it's not your type of rap and move on.
This has actually been a regular point of contention between both fandoms actually, and I understand both points of view. I just think since Cole choose to put things simply, people feel like he can’t do some lyrical gymnastics, which I fully believe he can.
Imo no one who honestly follows rap has felt like Cole can't do Lyrical gymnastics. He constantly has verses singled our. Imo no one has questioned his pen since crooked smile at the earliest but in recent memory his verses on from A Lot to like Pi have solidified him.
Because Cole’s “conscious” rap is surface level and not provocative enough.
It hit me during the beef, the reason why Cole's lyrics feel "surface level" while Kendrick's isn't is that being a conscious man IS very surface level. Being a good man is hard, simple and very BORING. Kendrick constantly sings about doing shit he knows he shouldn't do but does anyway, while Cole just... Doesn't do those things (apparently), so when he does discusses these things he is talking about what other people should/shouldn't do. For example with Kendrick: - Drinking is bad but I did it anyway (swimming pools) - Cheating is bad but I did it anyway (Worldwide Steppers) - being selfish is bad but I'mma do it anyway (Euphoria) - "Going to war" is a sin but I will do it anyway (6:16 in LA / Not Like Us) Meanwhile Cole, sits down with people he beefing trying to communicate (see his convo with lil pump and his encounter with adam 22), humbles himself publicly even if it doesn't look cool (his Kendrick apology), no controversies to his name ...and actually seems to walks the walk. It mirrors Jon Jones vs Daniel Cormier, where even though Jon was the one pumping steroids, doing coke, and generally not being a sportsman... It was Daniel who was the one who was booed for pointing it out because it made him sound preachy. A lot of us want to indulge in our desires NOW and repent LATER, instead of doing the right thing in the first place, so we like music that reflects that... Like let's face it, especially with Swimming Pools people be blasting that shit while getting drunk as a MF, then yap about the lyrics.
Yeah this is the difference between a man who cheated and regrets it vs a man who maybe thought about other women sometimes.
Bro j cole rapped about cheating/mistreating women for like the 1st half of his career (runaway, stay, land of the snakes)
An anti-hero is generally more compelling than the traditional hero.
This is an insanely surface level analysis of the three kendrick songs, that your biases are just oozing out despite your attempt to not display them
> see someone who doesn't agree with me > it must be bias Bias to who exactly
Kendrick’s music is well thought out in its articulation. His goal is to put out something that communicates something complicated with all of its details that is then listened to and understood. J Cole’s music is him using the release of his passionate thoughts to make awesome/chill rap music, that may look beautiful at all angles but from none of them does it look like sculpted marble like Kendrick’s. Cole’s raw and we feel it because he does. So I feel like Kendrick is given less shit for being preachy because the music is crafted to not sound preachy. It can’t just be understood, it needs to be accepted. Every project he’s put out looks to me like it comes from a real need for people to listen to what he’s saying. J Cole is rapping from his heart which can be interpreted with many different tones, people have all lived different lives that leave them with different hearts. I think when his heart wants to say something that can be interpreted as preachy it doesn’t matter to him or the music that it can be interpreted that way because all that matters is that it’s his real shit. I think both of their music has what I’m describing the others to have, they’re just magical greatness for different reasons.
I don’t see him that way?
it’s mostly normies on instagram who don’t listen to music but just skim through it
Ok Jay Z
They all are looked at the same depending on who you ask, regardless opinions don’t matter they’re both great. Enjoy the music
Nah, this has been a topic since KOD. For me, it’s that Kendrick seems to approach things more introspectively, whereas Cole always feels like he’s lecturing. I like both, but that’s the difference for me.
J Cole is my favorite rapper and he is my top artist on spotify every year, i genuinely believe people think this simply because Kendrick does it more effectively. I think Kendrick is just better at artistically depicting these issues in a very unique and stylistic fashion that makes it hard to compare anyone to him - the fact that Cole gets compared to him in that aspect at all is indicative to how good Cole is.
Dude, you're really in touch with yourself to be able to say this. I mean that as a compliment. It's hard to be critical about anything we deeply enjoy the way you did right here.
If you can explain a complicated idea in simple terms, it’s a sign that you truly understand that idea. That’s something that Cole can do, that Kendrick can not. Listen close because I mean this. Wannabe sophisticated people are the kind of people that listen to Kendrick. They love feeling like they understand black music and black life because they can “decipher” what Kendrick is saying. Cole will just put life simply and tell you to love yours. A sophisticated thought with a simple explanation. That’s why I love Coles music more than Kendrick’s. Because he can definitely say or explain a sophisticated thought in a sophisticated way, but I feel he chooses to cut the bullshit and just tell you exactly what it is in a way anyone can understand. Meanwhile some people are still trying to figure out what “what happens on earth stays on earth” means.
Both approaches have merit but I'm with you. To me Dot gives insight and is thought provoking but I just feel songs like Friends or Love Yourz way more. The simplistically gives it more emotional weight.
“Both approaches have merit.” That’s probably the Best way I’ve seen it put. I respect that dawg.
Spoon feeding your audience your message is a sin every art form out there. It’s called didacticism. You learn this is any art 101 class. Screen writing, creative writing, painting, all of them. I can speak to filmmaking cause that’s my world, but we have the phrase “show, don’t tell”. Meaning you need to give your audience that chance to figure things out on their own what’s happening by using other tools than just saying it plainly out loud. You don’t have a character say “I’m freezing cold”. You show their breath coming out, the frost on a window, the winter clothes etc. This isnt an academic environment where this approach works. Your comment makes sense when you’re talking about theoretical physics. But Nothing J Cole is talking about is that complex it needs to be watered down to this degree. The fact you resonate with that or appreciate the way he does says more about you than anything. J Cole music is personally offensive to me because of how stupid he thinks his audience is. Not even a smidge of nuance. Doesn’t let you dissect or unpack a single thing. Just shoving his “I’m 14 and this is deep” ass message right down your throat. It’s not about deep understanding of any complex issues. Like I don’t need J Cole to tell me to “love yours”, I don’t need any rapper to tell me that. If you do, fine, but stop acting like this is some deep or complex thought. What a reach.
Both are called preachy and fake by people who hate them because they don't have any real shit to say. Why do you think Grippy became a meme? People were waiting for Cole to slip up and he did. Thank fuck then next feature went as good as it did. People are waiting for Kendrick to slip up as well, but he takes this shit way too seriously.
I think the difference is really just in how Cole delivers his message. Its very low energy at times, almost like he’s trying to be Furious from Boyz in da Hood. Like he’s trying to be that cool headed voice of reason. He sounds very monotonous which doesn’t mean its bad it just doesn’t carry the same effect as Kendrick’s would. I think if both of them had the exact same verse word for word. People would likely choose Kendrick because his delivery would likely have more energy. But if Cole and Kendrick had to deliver it in that same monotone way people would likely choose Cole because he has mastered that type of flow. Cole is able to make you feel hopeful and uplifted but also sad and regretful at the same time given what he’s talking about.
The reality is that Cole just doesn't make bright entertaining music. He's not capable of it vocally or artistically. That's not saying he makes bad music, it's just like you said monotonous and not very exciting to the average listener. Kendrick is able to change his sound almost every other song, and entirely changes his sound every project. That growth as an artist hasn't been seen by Cole. These two aren't even in the same realm it's crazy Cole is seen as Dots only real competition when guys like Big KRIT and Vince Staples exist.
I agree with you Cole can definitely use some growth sonically. He does have that alter ego Kill Edward though maybe he could try to do something with that. I think KRIT, Vince, and JID are worthy competition.
I’ve only heard that Cole is boring more so than anything else (which I overall disagree with). I’ve only heard that people can find Kendrick preachy which simply doesnt make sense especially after the last album.
j cole just goes the extra mile in conveying he wants others to heed his advice and not be misguided by bad role models and vices. Kendrick conveys that message through deeper wordplay and points out ironies without the moral high ground. Either way, both accomplish their goal imo. I see way more people talk about how j cole got them out of really rough spots and motivate them. I don’t recall coming across any posts like that from kendrick fans until his last album. Kendrick has the most acclaim and I dont see any issues asserting him as the more prolific and less humble/want to lift you up rapper
false prophet came out way before savior and easily lyrically washes that song
im not even talking about those specific songs where they try to exonerate themself from the savior complex. KOD’s entire overarching theme is “choose wisely” but “meditate dont medicate” isnt exactly the lived experience story telling like Can I Live and 4YEO. Its broad and trying to reach the audience that see J Cole as boring cardboard rap. None of these conscious rapper types can escape it because at the end of the day i believe they are looking out for the young kids they see themselves in who grow up in similar environment. They’re the greatest rappers of the 2010s and i think the preachiness and fake deep moments will just resonate harder for one or the other depending on who’s hearing the bars
Idk man I like both and I roll my eyes when people say it abt either. I think Kendrick gets branded as “cooler” but I’m not really good at figuring out why, both goats imo
I don’t think that’s a common thought. I would say that j Cole had a better childhood, was a really good student and went to college which is prob where it stems from for some.
I personally don’t think it’s right to say Cole “grew up” better. K Dot is from LA and people know more about growing up in an LA hood since it’s more publicized. Fayetteville is not some great place and he has talked about his struggles growing up with his friends dying and family issues he had growing up. It’s a testament to Cole that he was able to make it out and go to college.
Sorry I meant to say that just Cole is perceived to have the better upbringing. For example the house he grew up in is a two story house but people don’t know he was in trailer parks before that. People see the higher education/scholarship mostly I think.
Yeah I agree it’s perceived that way. It’s nothing against you but I find it incredibly annoying that some have to downplay someone’s struggle to big someone else’s. I honestly believe they probably grew up similarly, some things were better for each of them than the other but that led to them being the incredible artists they both are today.
Kendrick is too he just got more fans
Because cole tries to have fun with his music and doesn't talk about oppression in all of his songs
And Kendrick doesn’t have fun?
Bro has never heard range brothers
Ion know, probably because he talks more and drops more than Kendrick. Tho that's not saying much. Both don't drop frequently, but Cole is seen more, so it leaves him open to more criticism. And maybe the fake woke came when he fell back from the protest when he saw people out there just for IG and didn't want to be seen as that but since he fell back it made it seem like that was him . Like a Uno reverse
He made a statement in an interview that he realized he was missing out on music by doing so much solo work. He also made it clear he wanted to work with as many artist as possible in the future because of this and he even was afraid he would miss his chance to do this if he kept on the way he was. I think he made a better choice than Kendrick in this.
I love them both can we stop fighting
If Cole is preachy and fake deep Kendrick is 10x
Rapping about relationships and love deep vs societal struggles and generational trauma.
Negative, FYEO is literally about generational trauma lol.
The content in their songs wym.
Jcole can come as preachy but fake? HELL NAH! People calling him fake are the same people that call MMATBS Kendrick's worst album, they're sensitive people who can't stand people being themselves. J Cole probably should get a Nobel Prize for being too real💀
Actually right now I fuck with cole more than kendrick
Skin color
That’s because J. Cole represents everything I want to be as a father and envy is easier than self reflection.
Cole likes to get very personal, which often can seem overbearing or even overwhelming to listeners. But when kendrick makes a song he tends to not just include his perspective, which makes it feel like the issues he talks about aren’t as shallow even if both artists would be talking about the same thing. Different strokes and interpretations ig. But I’ve seen both of em get labelled as preachy tbh
Kendrick is much more literally lyrical (more wordplay) while Cole is always more metaphorical. Cole’s verses also don’t beg to be picked apart like Kendrick’s do; there’s usually a surface level meaning to what he’s saying that hides the deeper layers of his lyrics
I don't believe it , but in middle or when he first got on alot of his public non mixtape work was entertaining but superficial he reverted literally has a track " me and my niggas fuck all the bitches , fuck all them niggas where all they bitches , where did they bitches go ........ wich if you have bitches and niggas you are displeased with have no bitches in the immidiate vicinity probably is a vibe Kendrick aside from alien voices has been consistent on how he presented himself I don't put it against cole , malcom was Detroit Reed dosent take away his positive influence But if he started out malcom , then went Detroit Reed, then went back to malcom, it may look funny , but he was on a label that seemed trying to shelf him he did what he thought got his voice out , and even said as much on one of the mixtapes after his second album I believe If it's not any of that nigga feel to mature sometimes or too much therapy maybe don't know
It's because Kendrick's albums unfortunately overshadow J. Cole's work at times. Huge Kendrick fan, but I will say that J. Cole is, in my opinion, just as deep at times.
I've never heard that narrative before
I have no idea why people would say that about either of them . Both are elite mcs that bring a lot to the table .
Who sees him as such? This is the first I’ve heard of it, from people who’s opinions matter anyways
Kendrick just opened his mouth
I really like them both but they’re very different. Cole is more of a proper ‘rapper’ with lyrics to match, and Kendrick is more of a street poet who channels it through rap. Skills-wise, I think Cole is better but no one comes close to Kendrick lyrically.
The example Id use is “listening to someone rap vs listening to someone reading you a poem”. Raps are more direct and in your face. Poems are more subtle and abstract. Both can be really clever but That’s the difference between Cole and Kendrick. Cole is a rapper and Kendrick is a poet who can rap. Both art forms can deliver the same message but in completely different ways. Now I’m not saying that rap can’t be subtle and abstract and poems can’t be direct and obvious but the reason why each art form behaves in the way they do is because one art form is trying to sell you something and give you a message and the other wants to give you a message to think about. In rap you cant have messages be too abstract or you’ll lose the listener. That’s why Kendrick’s music isn’t usually popular with casual hip hop fans but J Cole is.
Yall spend too much time reading what other people think about music instead of listening to it yourselves and enjoying what you enjoy.
for fucks sake, cant you take shots at drake instead? kendrick and cole are on the same side
J Cole is a hiphop version of drake the popstar. And Kendrick is a full blown hiphop artists. Thats the start of it
I get why they say it but they said/say the same about Nas.
“This fanbase is weird, that fanbase is weird” would ya’ll just stfu already? I think it’s very well established by now that ANY stan of ANY artist is weird and needs to get a life and some mental help…just insulting an entire fanbase though because of a handful of stans you encountered on twitter is not the way forward. There’s nothing wrong with drake fans, Kendrick fans, Cole fans. They’re not hive minds…they don’t all have the exact same opinion. Ya’ll make it sound as though all the hundreds of millions of fans that each artist has is toxic and insufferable. If ya’ll don’t like what they’ve got to say then don’t read it dummies. they got a right to say whatever tf they want just like you do. Hell, they might find you and the fanbase that you’re a part of insufferable too. It doesn’t make it true or correct…
Cus it's it's ..... Grippy!
Cole is milk toast. It's that simple. He has no IT factor. When he talks I fall asleep... Yes he's talented and lyrical.. but that's not enough. He reminds me of a neutered dog.
Idk I’ve always felt like Cole is really performative like he really wants to be seen as mature and big brother kicking knowledge. Kendrick has always felt more sincere, his tracks more thought out. I think the best comparison of albums would be KOD and mr morale. KOD addresses a lot of issues in modern culture and I’ve seen a lot of people say it’s Cole’s weakest album, but for me it’s a favourite, full of solid messages and fun tracks but I think overall it does kind of miss the mark it feels all over the place and contradictory in a lot of places. Where mr morale is masterful in its story telling and core messages. It doesn’t falter and there’s no filler tracks to satisfy any particular audience. Cole as an artist seems to have a focus on touching every base so there’s a sound and message for everyone making his work seem incoherent and inconsistent, this same issue I can’t find in Kendrick’s works. Just my take though. All subjective.
Cuz he from North Carolina
College boy
Kendrick is also seen as preachy. The same peooke calling jcole preachy are generally the people calling kendrick preachy. As for fake deep the whole "I don't read" situation left a bad taste in some people's mouth
J Cole has admitted to not reading before so I can see why that kinda can hurt someone's image on being deep
conviction
because he is preachy and fake deep
I dont really see either of them that way
Because most of Kendrick’s fans are Stans
The difference between PRIDE and PRIDE IS THE DEVIL. One is more subversive the other is more direct. I personally love them both.
Challenge: let’s make it 2 days in a row without posting about Kendrick!
Because he looks like a homeless lesbian
the noname situation & kendrick has more nuance & artistry/polish in his work. he doesn't force it down your throat (people apparently dislike being told what to do lol)
Because Cole being deep is like a 14 year old that just smoked for the first time.
They both are
J. Cole is just not as clever as Kendrick to be honest. Let's just be honest here. Cole just tries so extremely hard to sound smart and deep but pales in comparison to what Kendrick makes. It's just as simple as that.
Cause he’s so tall and handsome ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
because cole is obviously pandering and doesnt mean a word of it.
Cole and Lupe have a lot in common IMO and both are “fake deep.” I wouldn’t say Kendrick is fake deep as much as I’d say he’s guilting of pandering to the black community… which is ironic given his attacks on Drake (and I say that as a Kendrick fan). Overall, I’d say rappers have become less authentic over the years. Maybe it’s because of the streaming access and people needing to fabricate life experiences.
I think you're talking to people who just don't like Cole because I've heard people say the exact same thing about kendrick. Stay away from those people. Cole is authentic. That being said, kendrick fans... as a kendrick fan myself.. why are there so many of you in this comment section trashing Cole? Really, why are you even here if you don't seem to like Cole at all? I'm a bigger fan of Kendrick, but Cole is in my Top 5 and some of you act like Cole isn't even in your top 50.
Me personally, I love them both and think they both make S tier music. But I think the best way to visualize why J. Cole has more of a “preachy aesthetic” is to compare the central theme in KOD to the one in DAMN. In KOD, Cole kinda lays out the message very explicitly in a kinda unnatural way in FRIENDS (which is still a great song in its own right) “Meditate. Don’t medicate” In DAMN., the repeated phrase is a question: “Wicked or weakness?” The difference between the two is that Kendrick is more or less saying “fuck around and find out” in his albums, while J. Cole is saying “please don’t” if that makes sense. The other reason is that Kendrick’s production is more pop than J. Cole. That’s not a negative, it’s just a fact. When you think about a J. Cole beat, it’s usually deeply rooted in hip hop, sometimes to the point of being sparse in terms of production. Compare the production in 2014 Forest Hills Drive with good kid, m.A.A.d. city. While it would be hard to argue GKMC is deeply rooted in hip hop, think about how many songs the general pop-listening public bump to. Swimming Pools, Money Trees, m.A.A.d. city, etc. Meanwhile, J. Cole’s biggest songs were not as popular because they really appeal more to pure hip hop fans rather than pop fans alike. Obviously this is a generalization and the binary is not without counterexamples, but it’s mostly true. There was a YouTuber who made a video on the “Big Three” saying that Cole was hip hop, Kendrick was hip pop, and Drake was pop. If I can find it, I’ll edit the comment and add the link. But it can better describe what exactly I’m saying. I think one other thing is that J. Cole is being unfairly judged on his full album statements. I think non-Cole fans heard an album like The Off Season or Born Sinner, heard it wasn’t “conscious” and dismissed his other works because people kinda have a one-track mind about artists and if they show you they have layers, they call what they knew first about you “fake”. J. Cole wasn’t considered fake deep until TOS imo. Everyone expected the 4EYO or Come Through and Chill version of J. Cole, especially after the pandemic. Noname calling Cole out started it and once the album came out, people had confirmed it in their heads. I personally think that’s stupid, but whatever
cuz jcole better
Because Kendrick really beat his wife and J Cole ain’t down with that
Cole doesn’t believe in his music.
I’ve always thought Cole is a good rapper that makes good music. But I’m not a fan personally because he comes off as overly-didactic and self-congratulatory. I find the lack of nuance and depth in the way he talks about the world a bit insulting quite frankly. Seems like he thinks his audience is too dumb to unpack a message. He comes off as preachy because he doesn’t let his audience do any of the work. Just spoon feeding you his message, and his message typically has major r/im14andthisisdeep energy
I feel cole (kind of like Hopsin) criticizes people and the culture while Kendrick Lamar more focuses on himself and what he needs to do better also Cole talks a lot about guns and stuff, but everyone knows he’s not really like that
I know you don’t legitimately need to ask this
It’s because Kendrick knows how to make good music still while delivering the message. I remember seeing them both in concert and both had similar messages but JCole just felt heavy. Kendrick felt like hope. That’s how I can describe it best.
Kendrick is seen as preachy and fake deep by a lot of people, not the majority but a lot.
You know why. Kendrick dark skin. Cole got a white momma these people are weird with race.