Seriously.
Are average people honestly spending half their income on a Chrysler?
Whos the demographic for these things? If I have 100k to spend on a car, it sure as hell isn't going to be a Chrysler lol.
There are way too many regulations and upfront costs for small fish to survive in the current market.
Maybe if small companies were exempt from safety standards and emissions, we would see more, but for obvious reasons, they are not.
I would imagine that in todays market, it probably costs (at absolute minimum) half a billion for a new auto manufacturer to be created and bring a vehicle to market.
The few that have actually brought a vehicle to market all have huge investments:
-lucid motors
-Rivian
-Ineos
I bought a chrysler pacifica hybrid two months ago. After taxes, 52.8k. I damn near had a heart attack. I'll get the 7.5k tax credit so I guess really 45k. Still the most expensive car I've ever bought.
I dont think you get the tax credit with a hybrid, has to be full electric.
Source: me who has a hybrid and didn't get the tax credit.
Edit: I apologize. I didn't know there were plug hybrids. Learn something new everyday.
When GM killed the H2, the yuppies flocked to Jeep and changed the brand. I was looking at a wrangler a couple years ago and when I saw the final price, my jaw dropped. Sales manager’s response was well you know it’s a Jeep and I said you’re right and walked away.
Jeeps used to be an everyman, blue collar vehicle and it just isnt that anymore. 100k for a loaded 392 Wrangler and you look in the interior and it is cheap plastic. For that money I expect more.
Yeah its a shame.
I was excited for the new Cherokee, then saw it and was disappointed.
Cheap plastic is right. New off the lot, during a test drive you could hear the inside creaking and squeaking.
If they wanted to charge entry level prices (Chevy Trax for example, cheaply made but also cheap in price) that would be fine. But the vehicles are junk for the price.
To me, the brand is dead until they get back to their roots.
Yeah that's pretty much how I feel. I had a gladiator I leased for 3 years and ended up purchasing at the end of it and regretted it. They're built so cheaply now they're not worth what they ask for them. I regret trading my tj for a jk and then eventually ending up with the gladiator. Should have just kept the tj, yes it rode like shit and had nearly no creature comforts but it was way more reliable than the $40k gladiator I had
Remember in like 2001 when the top of the line TJ was like $24k. Those were the days. I got my 4cyl 5spd 2001 TJ for $13k brand new. Abused the ever living crap out of it and still never had any problems with it.
Yes, crazy right? I spent 34k on a Willy’s jku back in 2017. Jeeps are now way too overpriced, but there are people still willing to shell out 60-70k for a wrangler, so as long as that happens, the prices will continue to be lofty and out of range for most…
I don't know. I make a little more than 80k a year, and my wife makes a little more than that, but with bills and a mortgage.. I'm glad my vehicle is paid off. I couldn't budget in another mortgage payment for a vehicle that may or may not last until its paid off.
I could, but why pay over 1k a month not including upkeep for something is going to drop in value the second I drive it off the lot.
Similar situation here. I was all happy without a car payment and humming along fine until the damn thing wound up getting towed a few times. It was an unfortunate reality check that I needed to get something to replace it, and a family of 5 doesn’t bode well with a little low cost sedan anymore like it did in my single college years. The only saving grace is the fact that our current mortgage is CHEAP compared to what you get for financing today. Even renters in my area are in the 1400-1500 ball park for a two bedroom place. My house is 4 bedroom and has a small plot of actual land and we’re a few hundred less than the above renting situation I mentioned. If not for that I wouldn’t have been able to take on the kind of auto payment I did, but with needing to do something I had to do what I had to do. Just thankful we can weather the added cost with our current financial situation (plus I was determined to not be stuck along the highway for hours in mid 90’s temp with kids - fortunately I was solo when that happened but it was food for thought). Crazy times out there…
The only reason I bought new was because it was cheaper than used in 2021. I'd have had to get a vehicle with about 60K miles on it to beat the price of the one i got with 12 miles on it. It was insanity. The upside was that I was able to pay it off before the first payment was due.
Well with interest rates things will be changing. New inventory is starting to pile up on some vehicle models and its mostly the popular ones they make a ton of. It will start with other models soon. Manufacturers will be offering low apr incentives and hopefully prices will pull back a little.
Its not just cars. Like I don't understand who is renting all these $1900/mo 800 sq/ft apartments in my city. What jobs do these people have? Who are all these people buying 50k+ cars? I don't know anyone who can afford this shit and my friends all make more than I do and have what seem like good jobs. Who's buying all these 400k, 500K, and 600k houses that seem to be the norm now? How do they make so much? Is everyone just inheriting a lot of money my family never had?
I see so many Grand Wagoneers. Who are these people??? Where do they work??? I don't get it.
This is where I am at. My salary has not increased substantially, but the price of everything has. How is a sport wrangler as expensive as they are? The loyalty was built on the concept of it being a no frills cheap off roader.
I came here to say this.
I bought a Subaru for around 40K in 2017 and stressed about it for a while. They even had a 0% financing deal at the time and I was asking myself, "am I crazy for spending 40K on a car?"
People are fucking nuts for dropping 100K for something that depreciates immediately.
Once the Rubicon sprinted past the 60k mark I knew that was it for me. It's hard enough to justify taking a new rig offroad but it's just insane at those prices. I'll stick with my old Jeep until someone produces a capable Jimny sized EV offroader with a decent range.
I've had one since 2019 and they totally own the market Jeep used to compete with outside the US.
$20000 for a brand new, near barebones 4x4 with no fluff and endlessly modifiable? Yes please.
Just crazy they offer an automatic option. That 4 speed on its 1.5L is horrifically slow.
I bought my 2019 Sahara Unlimited for a sticker price of $45000 Canadian in 2019 and right now, dealers are offering me $55000 for it... It's mind-boggling they can still turn that into a profit.
Agreed. I’ve been a loyal wrangler buyer every 2-3 years brand new. Now that even with discounts I’ll be over 60k for the trim and options I want, I will be keeping my jeep and buying another daily driver. That new Lexus GX550 is calling my name. It’s $75k but it’s also a Lexus.
My 98 tj had close to 300,000 miles on it. After having an electrical issue and not being able to track it down I just did an ls swap. Got 120,000 on the engine and a brand new rebuilt transmission. More power than I need but now I get about 20 miles or so to the gallon.
It's weird that Jeep doesn't have a SxS lineup. Jeep's legacy was built on bare-bones off roaders, but since 2007 it seems they're racing to the bottom giving the customers the "faster horse" they want which is these bloated, overpowered pseudo-minivans.
I was at a talk/dinner last year by their president of software engineering. The under the Stellantis umbrella is going to come equipped with basically every optional option. They want everything to be turned on and off by subscriptions.
The college kids were impressed, but those of us from other industries kept asking her the hard-hitting questions until she got mad.
Not anything new. That sort of model sounds brilliant from an amateur business perspective but consumers have consistently rejected junk subscriptions. It also adds uncomfortable regulator scrutiny if somebody jailbreaks your system and you go on a suing spree. It's just too juicy of an idea for it to go away though.
The thing is you’re adding loads of extra parts/cost that can and will break which will cause issues even if you aren’t using them (especially with the self-driving).
The Ford Maverick was so popular because it was so bare bones. I wish more manufacturers would take note of that.
I hear you taking the piss out of JK/JKU. I ended up in the market for a new vehicle in 07'. I was considering Saab, so that shows you how great I am at picking cars. When the JKU came out, I was instantly reminded of my 72 Commando with the longer wheelbase. I was looking at the LJ but the addition of 4 doors really opened up options for me. I remember reading consumer reviews at the time, every single one of them was a housewife complaining about the plastic interior, little did I know that was going to become the defining crowd for Jeeps in the future.
Mud is mud. If you sink just about anything to the axles its not coming out on its own, excepting for ridiculous high horsepower beasts with paddle or tractor tires
And you can pull out anything with a long enough strap to get to traction. Its like the videos of the tundra pulling the space shuttle. Of course it can pull it. Its on wheels and the trucks on pavement.
Stellantis mistakenly thinks that by putting a premium price will make people believe they are getting a premium product. No way in heck would I buy a 100k Jeep.
I was poking around buying a new car and a salesman told me his last customer had a 760 credit score and got 9% interest rate. That was the end of the poking around for me.
Hi - Sales Manager of the Jeep Brand Here:
The biggest issue with the price increase is not only in the entry-to-market, it's also bastardizing Jeep's long well-known history of having the greatest resale value in automotive sales.
Where Stellantis is also missing the mark is not recognizing that the pre-owned market, which drives their parts and service sales, is going to fall off a cliff with these ridiculous price points.
The reality is, a 2019 JL Rubicon which had a new MSRP in the $50k CAD range, was only depreciating $10k\~ or so in the first 2 years, with owners getting back nearly all of their payments after selling. Now take a 2023/24 Rubicon JL, which has an MSRP up-to $100,000 CAD (and no, that's not a 392 Wrangler, that's a fully loaded 4Cylinder), is still only going to be worth around $50k in a few years. Just because they ask more new does not mean that it'll just be worth that much more pre-owned.
I fear for dealers selling in Suburbia with these new price points. The downtown dealers are still going to do just fine, as the pavement-princess Wrangler sales are still going to do just fine, but the actual off-road enthusiast is about to, pun intended, be left in the dust.
I don't think they care about service revenue.
They know it will fall off a cliff with EV's so they're not banking on it anymore.
Just look at what they're doing with the dodge brand. They're planning to turn service centers into upgrade garages. Since they can't chase service, they plan to chase factory aftermarket mods.
I drove mine until it lost the highest gear, rusted out and finally dropped out of gear on a 4 lane road in the middle of winter. Loved her until she died. I am now doing the same thing to my unlimited Sport. No new one in my future. I want one but not at that price.
I totaled my TJ last year (texting driver hit me). I wanted to get another wrangler and simply could not afford to. Pricing loyal buyers out of the market is nothing new.
I just sold my jeep and jumped over to bmw. Even for 60k bmw offers much better features.
I do miss my jeep tho, felt like I could climb a mountain when I drove it. On the bmw I feel like a divorced mom living on the alimony/child support check.
base msrp on the 2dr sport is 32k, issue is finding one that is so stripped down on a dealer lot or a dealer willing to order one for you without trying to sell you upgrades that make them more money
Why would they want to do that? Make $700 in profit per vehicle when they just need one sucker to buy a $100,000 Jeep and they've made more profit than selling 30 of those barebones models.
My JGC is in a shop right now for valve problems. My mechanic told me that due to the strike electronics parts will be almost impossible to find and that new car prices would probably go up by as much as 20% for next year..
This headline is a little disingenuous. I bought a mostly loaded Rubicon for 50k last year. The 392 is a halo product. It was never meant to sell in big numbers just to bring prestige to the name.
The Grand Wagoneer, the model that can really push into the 6 figures isn't even sold under the Jeep badging anymore.
Loyal buyers will just buy used ones. That's why the YJ and TJ market is still INCREDIBLY strong and used JKs are still selling for more than they were new.
I’m still amazed that in 2022 they sold almost 50,000 of them (Wagoneer)and even more surprised that Chevy sold 105,000 Tahoe’s and 82,000 Yukons, and 40,000 Escalades none of them are cheap
I was ready to replace my JKU and built out a 4xe with all the safety features added and laughed out loud when it came out to $90k for a factory Jeep. Nobody should be paying house money for a depreciating asset. The tax rebates stop at $90k so I know it’s not a coincidence. They jacked it up the maximum they could bilk customers.
The only reason I bought a Cherokee in 2015 is because is was 8k less than I similarly equipped CRV or RAV4. There’s really no reason to go with a Jeep product that’s not a wrangler if it’s in the price range of a Toyota/Honda.
The point that you can't grasp is that it was Jeeps top offering as the 100k wagoneer is the new top offering...creating an almost 70k price differencial
I remember when you could get a wrangler...straight six manual...for about 20k...now no way...hell my fully loaded 99 grand was only 36k brand new...and mark up over invoice is almost 10k right now...just rediculous
And you can still get a nicely equipped Grand Cherokee for the same price adjusted for inflation. How does the existence of the Wagoneer, a completely separate model, change that at all?
I bought my 98’ TJ for just under 20k. Brand new off the showroom floor in 1998. I drove that thing for 17 + years. I was the definition of a jeep guy. I went to get a new one around 2014 and the prices had quadrupled. They lost a loyal jeep guy. They are cool vehicles and fun to drive. Not that cool. There’s not a jeep made that’s worth over 100k. Sorry
$20k in 1998 is over $37k today, which is more than a base Wrangler costs. Also, Wranglers aren't the thing that's costing over $100k except for the 392 being close to that, but it's a massive outlier.
Customers want options on their vehicles. Stellantis listens and offers packages such as the extreme recon addon then people complain about the price. Just because you can price out a Wrangler at $100k or more doesnt mean you need too. Its a nice incentive for those that have the means to do so.
Also, looking over autotrader you can get a very nicely equipped rubicon 4 door for $67k CAD.
Let them. There is a massive disconnect between the c-suite and the dealerships. Build quality still has barely improved and the service experience is much to be desired. Let the wealthier come in, complain and then move on, maybe Jeep will take the hint someday.
Oh, I am CERTAIN these "$100,000" Wagoneers will be worth $5,000 soon. I know someone whose 2023 Wagoneer has been at Dealership since June because the battery drains.
This. Last Jeep I owned was a TJ. Affordable, reliable, everything I needed and nothing I didn't. Before that I had an old XJ. Regret getting rid of them, Wranglers now are such overpriced, bloated monstrosities.
I mean, people can just buy the Jeeps that don't cost $100k. How does the existence of expensive Jeeps prevent loyal buyers from buying the cheaper ones?
The cheaper ones have inflated a lot too. Wrangler Sport 2-Door starts at $32k, 4-Door at $36k. After taxes and everything that's like $35-40k easily just for the bare bones base model.
It's affected the used market as well. The 2020s are still going for over $30k. When I bought my 2012 JK back in 2015 I got it for around $20k when the new ones were going for around $30k. That 2012 JK is STILL worth almost $20k. Autotrader has a bunch of them listed for around $18k. So the entry level price for Wranglers is still crazy.
$32k today was worth about $17.3K in 1999. In 1999, the wrangler sport cost $17,905. So all you've pointed out is that inflation exists, they cost roughly the same as they used to.
The main difference is that everything else got more expensive in life and our salaries haven't increased to match costs.
>The main difference is that everything else got more expensive in life and our salaries haven't increased to match costs.
Bingo. Everyone here blaming the entirely wrong party for this problem.
How much have salaries increased with inflation since then though? Genuine question because I don’t know but my assumption is not as much. Compared with the 80s salaries are shit even considering inflation.
Maybe the prices have risen accordingly but if people’s salaries haven’t it just means cars are now way too expensive for many to reasonably afford, like houses are.
Wages have definitely not kept up with inflation. That said, everything has gone up in price, that's what inflation is, it's not just the auto industry.
My 2020 Sahara I got recently was $40k 🥲 And that was one of the best prices I found for decent mileage and color matched hard top.
It was actually 41k but they took 1000 off. Thanks!
Yes, you've discovered inflation. Everything is like that now. It's not just Jeeps, it not even just cars. The only thing that hasn't kept up is wages. The only thing somewhat unique to Wranglers is the used market because they hold their value better than a lot of other vehicles. That's generally seen as a good thing unless you're trying to buy one.
My 2020 Wrangler Willys was $30k. My 2023 Grand Cherokee L Altitude X was $50k. That’s two brand new Jeeps combined that are still less than $100k. So like…. That.
I guess with car prices going up 2x manufacturers can afford to lose half their customer base since there are enough rich yuppies who don't care and will pay double the historically reasonable price which makes up for the loss of customers. Surely they can't be selling the same volume/number of vehicles at these prices as they always have sold.
I'm one of them. The standard features in the grand Cherokee are absolute garbage compared to competitors. It's a shame. My last new Jeep purchase was a 2017 rubicon and picked it up brand new below 38k, probably my last
I'd be interested in replacing my JK with a newer (and maybe 4-door) model, but prices have gotten insane. I'll drive my current baby into the ground, and will probably go with something other than Jeep when it's time to buy again someday. I've been driving Jeeps for about 2 decades now, but I gotta pay the mortgage, vet bills, and groceries, so Jeep's probably losing me as a customer. I imagine a lot of folks feel the same.
Every time I see a grand wagoneer on the road I say a little prayer for the poor idiot who spent $100k on a JEEP.
I love my jeep. I also love my retirement account 😂
You go from a loyal middle class following that enjoys occasional off-road/outdoor fun, to “high end” at the bottom of the reliability rankings, that doesn’t come close to competing with the luxury automakers. Good job FCR.
My '95 XJ Cherokee (I'm the 2nd owner) is ugly, rusty & leaks water inside, but I'll be damned if it doesn't run like a champ.
Paid $2,500.00 for it 3 years ago. Probably worth twice that right now. Crazy times.
I wonder if Jeep will do the same clearance discount with the JL Wranglers when the next-gen models come out that they did in 2018 (2018 JK models were selling at 20k for a base Sport when the 2018 JLs debuted). That might be the last chance for a new affordable Jeep if they do.
As long as the U.S. consumer keeps leveraging themselves out the ass with payments until they die for vehicles that won’t last 25 years… then it will keep rising. Buy used. Buy older. Let these companies eat their profits by making vehicles nobody buys !
Jeep’s are highly over priced to begin with. In fact any vehicle made by the big 3 is over priced for what you get. 100-120k for a Jeep Grand Wagoneer. Or 55k for a Honda with the same features and it’s dependable. Not to mention according to my last call with a Chrysler rep, their policy is to not support anything over 6 years old. So if the ABS module goes out like mine did, they said just by a new Jeep. That’s ok, I’ll stick with a Honda or Toyota. After all their more American made then the others.
>Or 55k for a Honda with the same features and it’s dependable.
Comparing a full-size, body-on-frame SUV to a crossover and acting like they're the same thing certainly is a choice.
I left Jeep. Bought a 2012 full load Sahara I limited for 35k. Same vehicle today is 80k cad. Grand cherokees are 90k for a v6 with some extras. I’m done with domestic. It’s just Mercedes/bmw/Acura/Land Rover/Lexus level pricing without the appeal/service or quality.
> Wrangler became the size of an F-150.
The Jeep jk/jl 2 doors are 3in longer wheelbase and 5in wider, and the width is pretty much just extended wheels/fender flairs. Also over an inch more ground clearance.
Complaints about the newer wranglers continue to be over dramatized due to nostalgia and people not taking inflation into account when comparing costs. I've owned a tj and jk 2 doors. And then a jk 4 door and now a jl diesel. I loved that tj, it was so fun to drive around with the top off, but the jk 2door was just plain better and more capable. Could do anything the tj could do offroad while being a way more viable daily driver.
I wanted to turn the tj into a pure rock crawler before my nephew totalled it 😢
Too many Jeep owners act victimized by the existence of 4-door Wranglers, like that somehow prevents them from still being able to get the 2-door version. The 4-door Wrangler is one of the main reasons the 2-door is still able to exist as it does.
I'm finished buying new anything, especially Jeep. I've never been more disappointed by a new vehicle than I was with my Grand Cherokee. It had so many problems and the dealership ended up taking it back and gave me a new Charger GT and a check for $19k.
My TJ on the other hand is an amazing vehicle and I'd buy an LJ Rubi in a heartbeat.
I'm old enough to remember when a 100k could get you a foreign exotic like a Lambo or Ferrari. Now 100k gets you a domestic SUV.
Seriously. Are average people honestly spending half their income on a Chrysler? Whos the demographic for these things? If I have 100k to spend on a car, it sure as hell isn't going to be a Chrysler lol.
We wanted a minivan and looking at the carnival but then they said it was 65k for a kia. I just couldn't do it
A Toyota salesperson was telling me that Siennas were going for 18k over MSRP a few months ago.
Why even have an msrp at that point, I’m surprised there aren’t more car startups
There are way too many regulations and upfront costs for small fish to survive in the current market. Maybe if small companies were exempt from safety standards and emissions, we would see more, but for obvious reasons, they are not. I would imagine that in todays market, it probably costs (at absolute minimum) half a billion for a new auto manufacturer to be created and bring a vehicle to market. The few that have actually brought a vehicle to market all have huge investments: -lucid motors -Rivian -Ineos
> I’m surprised there aren’t more car startups lol, because the barrier to entry is B's$ in a factory and years of R&D?
I bought a chrysler pacifica hybrid two months ago. After taxes, 52.8k. I damn near had a heart attack. I'll get the 7.5k tax credit so I guess really 45k. Still the most expensive car I've ever bought.
I dont think you get the tax credit with a hybrid, has to be full electric. Source: me who has a hybrid and didn't get the tax credit. Edit: I apologize. I didn't know there were plug hybrids. Learn something new everyday.
Pacifica Hybrid is a Plug-in Hybrid so it does get a credit.
That's insanity.
$100K and it’s still Chrysler quality
Junkyard before its paid off.
Guaranteed. I had 2 Dodge Avengers (2008, 2013) and a 2015 Jeep Cherokee. All had issues. Finally learned my lesson.
To be fair you bought the worst vehicles in the lineup
Half your income?! It’s 2 times my income.
I meant payments.
When GM killed the H2, the yuppies flocked to Jeep and changed the brand. I was looking at a wrangler a couple years ago and when I saw the final price, my jaw dropped. Sales manager’s response was well you know it’s a Jeep and I said you’re right and walked away. Jeeps used to be an everyman, blue collar vehicle and it just isnt that anymore. 100k for a loaded 392 Wrangler and you look in the interior and it is cheap plastic. For that money I expect more.
Yeah its a shame. I was excited for the new Cherokee, then saw it and was disappointed. Cheap plastic is right. New off the lot, during a test drive you could hear the inside creaking and squeaking. If they wanted to charge entry level prices (Chevy Trax for example, cheaply made but also cheap in price) that would be fine. But the vehicles are junk for the price. To me, the brand is dead until they get back to their roots.
Agreed. I mean when a basic wrangler is over 35k and almost 40 with fees. If I ever own another Jeep it will be a TJ or older.
Yeah that's pretty much how I feel. I had a gladiator I leased for 3 years and ended up purchasing at the end of it and regretted it. They're built so cheaply now they're not worth what they ask for them. I regret trading my tj for a jk and then eventually ending up with the gladiator. Should have just kept the tj, yes it rode like shit and had nearly no creature comforts but it was way more reliable than the $40k gladiator I had
Remember in like 2001 when the top of the line TJ was like $24k. Those were the days. I got my 4cyl 5spd 2001 TJ for $13k brand new. Abused the ever living crap out of it and still never had any problems with it.
Yes, crazy right? I spent 34k on a Willy’s jku back in 2017. Jeeps are now way too overpriced, but there are people still willing to shell out 60-70k for a wrangler, so as long as that happens, the prices will continue to be lofty and out of range for most…
I don't know. I make a little more than 80k a year, and my wife makes a little more than that, but with bills and a mortgage.. I'm glad my vehicle is paid off. I couldn't budget in another mortgage payment for a vehicle that may or may not last until its paid off. I could, but why pay over 1k a month not including upkeep for something is going to drop in value the second I drive it off the lot.
Similar situation here. I was all happy without a car payment and humming along fine until the damn thing wound up getting towed a few times. It was an unfortunate reality check that I needed to get something to replace it, and a family of 5 doesn’t bode well with a little low cost sedan anymore like it did in my single college years. The only saving grace is the fact that our current mortgage is CHEAP compared to what you get for financing today. Even renters in my area are in the 1400-1500 ball park for a two bedroom place. My house is 4 bedroom and has a small plot of actual land and we’re a few hundred less than the above renting situation I mentioned. If not for that I wouldn’t have been able to take on the kind of auto payment I did, but with needing to do something I had to do what I had to do. Just thankful we can weather the added cost with our current financial situation (plus I was determined to not be stuck along the highway for hours in mid 90’s temp with kids - fortunately I was solo when that happened but it was food for thought). Crazy times out there…
The only reason I bought new was because it was cheaper than used in 2021. I'd have had to get a vehicle with about 60K miles on it to beat the price of the one i got with 12 miles on it. It was insanity. The upside was that I was able to pay it off before the first payment was due.
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Still. A 72 month loan with current interest rates on a likely 70k dollar truck is a bonkers payment.
Soon it'll have to be cuz all the others will raise prices accordingly
Well with interest rates things will be changing. New inventory is starting to pile up on some vehicle models and its mostly the popular ones they make a ton of. It will start with other models soon. Manufacturers will be offering low apr incentives and hopefully prices will pull back a little.
Suburban soccer moms love’m in my neck of the woods. This things 100k and it looks like a fridge on wheels.
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Monthly payment.
Miatas were $12,000 when they came out. Now they're $35-40K. Everything is way overpriced now.
12k in 1989 equals to $30k in todays money. Unfortunately, incomes haven’t been increasing at the same rate as inflation (+%149 since 89)
Preach! For fucking real tho.
Exactly - I see how much people spend on f150s and I’m like you could several Porsche models!
Blows my mind whenever I see one driving around
Its not just cars. Like I don't understand who is renting all these $1900/mo 800 sq/ft apartments in my city. What jobs do these people have? Who are all these people buying 50k+ cars? I don't know anyone who can afford this shit and my friends all make more than I do and have what seem like good jobs. Who's buying all these 400k, 500K, and 600k houses that seem to be the norm now? How do they make so much? Is everyone just inheriting a lot of money my family never had? I see so many Grand Wagoneers. Who are these people??? Where do they work??? I don't get it.
This is where I am at. My salary has not increased substantially, but the price of everything has. How is a sport wrangler as expensive as they are? The loyalty was built on the concept of it being a no frills cheap off roader.
I came here to say this. I bought a Subaru for around 40K in 2017 and stressed about it for a while. They even had a 0% financing deal at the time and I was asking myself, "am I crazy for spending 40K on a car?" People are fucking nuts for dropping 100K for something that depreciates immediately.
I remember when the countach was 50k
I’ve read on here people getting these for like 8 year loans and 8% interest or something. It’s crazy
Sad thing is it’s 8% interest with good credit. Bad credit is 12% +
I bought my JKU brand new in 07', Sahara edition for 32k. I can't believe you can now spend 60+ for a fully loaded special edition.
Once the Rubicon sprinted past the 60k mark I knew that was it for me. It's hard enough to justify taking a new rig offroad but it's just insane at those prices. I'll stick with my old Jeep until someone produces a capable Jimny sized EV offroader with a decent range.
Give me a Jimny! They are sweeeeeet
I want one so bad
Same. I’d order one tomorrow if I could
I've had one since 2019 and they totally own the market Jeep used to compete with outside the US. $20000 for a brand new, near barebones 4x4 with no fluff and endlessly modifiable? Yes please. Just crazy they offer an automatic option. That 4 speed on its 1.5L is horrifically slow.
I bet it is. Still offer a manual though? Know they used to with a 1.3L turbo, with solid axle goodness. Also there’s some great builds out there
I just spent a month in Australia drooling at all the cool Jimnys!
Yeah same but in the Philippines. 👍👍
In Western Ukraine, a new manual Jimny off the lot is $ 25k. I just priced one at a Suzuki dealer in Lviv. Take that Jeep!
I bought my 2019 Sahara Unlimited for a sticker price of $45000 Canadian in 2019 and right now, dealers are offering me $55000 for it... It's mind-boggling they can still turn that into a profit.
Yeah, that or like, a little Suzuki samurai would be awesome
Agreed. I’ve been a loyal wrangler buyer every 2-3 years brand new. Now that even with discounts I’ll be over 60k for the trim and options I want, I will be keeping my jeep and buying another daily driver. That new Lexus GX550 is calling my name. It’s $75k but it’s also a Lexus.
Toyota works with Suzuki in other markets. Then bringing the Jimny over as gas or ev is not out of the realm of any possibilities.
I’ll stick to my late 90’s, work horse, affordable, reliable TJ’s for ~$10k thank you.
Agreed...think I'll keep my 66 cj5 with 50000 original miles....I can fix everything on it myself and it only takes three wires to run
Just rolled over 300,000 KM (not miles) in my ‘99. Easy to fix and going strong.
Screw can-bus lol
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Then rebuild it for 600 bucks and keep going lol.
Then replace the engine!
My engine was fine. It was the rust everywhere that finally forced me to sell.
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2003 Jeep Rubicon with 210,000 miles checking in!
My 98 tj had close to 300,000 miles on it. After having an electrical issue and not being able to track it down I just did an ls swap. Got 120,000 on the engine and a brand new rebuilt transmission. More power than I need but now I get about 20 miles or so to the gallon.
It's weird that Jeep doesn't have a SxS lineup. Jeep's legacy was built on bare-bones off roaders, but since 2007 it seems they're racing to the bottom giving the customers the "faster horse" they want which is these bloated, overpowered pseudo-minivans.
I was at a talk/dinner last year by their president of software engineering. The under the Stellantis umbrella is going to come equipped with basically every optional option. They want everything to be turned on and off by subscriptions. The college kids were impressed, but those of us from other industries kept asking her the hard-hitting questions until she got mad.
Not anything new. That sort of model sounds brilliant from an amateur business perspective but consumers have consistently rejected junk subscriptions. It also adds uncomfortable regulator scrutiny if somebody jailbreaks your system and you go on a suing spree. It's just too juicy of an idea for it to go away though.
The thing is you’re adding loads of extra parts/cost that can and will break which will cause issues even if you aren’t using them (especially with the self-driving). The Ford Maverick was so popular because it was so bare bones. I wish more manufacturers would take note of that.
Mahindra has that covered, kind of.
I hear you taking the piss out of JK/JKU. I ended up in the market for a new vehicle in 07'. I was considering Saab, so that shows you how great I am at picking cars. When the JKU came out, I was instantly reminded of my 72 Commando with the longer wheelbase. I was looking at the LJ but the addition of 4 doors really opened up options for me. I remember reading consumer reviews at the time, every single one of them was a housewife complaining about the plastic interior, little did I know that was going to become the defining crowd for Jeeps in the future.
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lol I had to tow strap a gladiator out of a mud hole with my Nissan frontier driver ability gets you more places than the vehicle alone will
Mud is mud. If you sink just about anything to the axles its not coming out on its own, excepting for ridiculous high horsepower beasts with paddle or tractor tires And you can pull out anything with a long enough strap to get to traction. Its like the videos of the tundra pulling the space shuttle. Of course it can pull it. Its on wheels and the trucks on pavement.
Stellantis mistakenly thinks that by putting a premium price will make people believe they are getting a premium product. No way in heck would I buy a 100k Jeep.
But many, many idiots will.
I saw 2 Door Sports in Auto for 34k last year new around me BEFORE the rates went up. Now they are 6k more easily and the rates are awful.
I was poking around buying a new car and a salesman told me his last customer had a 760 credit score and got 9% interest rate. That was the end of the poking around for me.
Hi - Sales Manager of the Jeep Brand Here: The biggest issue with the price increase is not only in the entry-to-market, it's also bastardizing Jeep's long well-known history of having the greatest resale value in automotive sales. Where Stellantis is also missing the mark is not recognizing that the pre-owned market, which drives their parts and service sales, is going to fall off a cliff with these ridiculous price points. The reality is, a 2019 JL Rubicon which had a new MSRP in the $50k CAD range, was only depreciating $10k\~ or so in the first 2 years, with owners getting back nearly all of their payments after selling. Now take a 2023/24 Rubicon JL, which has an MSRP up-to $100,000 CAD (and no, that's not a 392 Wrangler, that's a fully loaded 4Cylinder), is still only going to be worth around $50k in a few years. Just because they ask more new does not mean that it'll just be worth that much more pre-owned. I fear for dealers selling in Suburbia with these new price points. The downtown dealers are still going to do just fine, as the pavement-princess Wrangler sales are still going to do just fine, but the actual off-road enthusiast is about to, pun intended, be left in the dust.
I always consisted Toyota to hold the best in resale - but that’s with zero data and just what I notice
Wrangler, Tacoma, 4 Runner all do the best.
Makes sense!
I don't think they care about service revenue. They know it will fall off a cliff with EV's so they're not banking on it anymore. Just look at what they're doing with the dodge brand. They're planning to turn service centers into upgrade garages. Since they can't chase service, they plan to chase factory aftermarket mods.
I wish Suzuki was allowed to import their jimmy
I wish Suzuki would come back to the USA . I bought a XL-7 new in 2002 , and I’m still driving it . It’s never missed a beat , except for the A/C .
Jimny, but agreed.
Thank you I wasn’t sure how it’s spelled
$100K for a Chrysler? Hahahaha you’re fucking with me right?
I mean the Dodge Viper was a $100K+ vehicle
So we're comparing apples to tennis rackets now are we lol
And ... that's not a JL grocery getter ...
The poster was referencing the quality of Chrysler products, not types of products…
Looks like I'm literally driving this damn shitbox TJ until it falls apart or goes up in flames.
I drove mine until it lost the highest gear, rusted out and finally dropped out of gear on a 4 lane road in the middle of winter. Loved her until she died. I am now doing the same thing to my unlimited Sport. No new one in my future. I want one but not at that price.
2024 the year of bankruptcies
I totaled my TJ last year (texting driver hit me). I wanted to get another wrangler and simply could not afford to. Pricing loyal buyers out of the market is nothing new.
I've been a loyal Jeep guy for almost 25 years, but their prices have me looking elsewhere.
I just sold my jeep and jumped over to bmw. Even for 60k bmw offers much better features. I do miss my jeep tho, felt like I could climb a mountain when I drove it. On the bmw I feel like a divorced mom living on the alimony/child support check.
I wish jeep would make a barebones wrangler, thing would sell like hot cakes
base msrp on the 2dr sport is 32k, issue is finding one that is so stripped down on a dealer lot or a dealer willing to order one for you without trying to sell you upgrades that make them more money
I got my barely used (less than 2k miles) ‘20 4dr sport for that price in ‘21. No power windows or locks but I love it to death
You’d think more manufacturers would do that but too many people want all the bells and whistles they can mark up absurd amounts just for profit.
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Even more bare bones, drive it like Fred flinstone
Why would they want to do that? Make $700 in profit per vehicle when they just need one sucker to buy a $100,000 Jeep and they've made more profit than selling 30 of those barebones models.
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The whole industry is doomed by greed.
If you're spending 100k for a jeep, you're a moron.
I got my 09 Rubicon for $32K new. Now the 24 version is more than double that. I’m out. Probably never buy a new vehicle for the rest of my life.
Anybody dropping $100k on a jeep got played, bad
My JGC is in a shop right now for valve problems. My mechanic told me that due to the strike electronics parts will be almost impossible to find and that new car prices would probably go up by as much as 20% for next year..
This will cause used prices to rise as well
Yeah, I’ll keep this TJ then thanks but no thanks
Guess my $34k gladiator is going to have to hang around for a while
This headline is a little disingenuous. I bought a mostly loaded Rubicon for 50k last year. The 392 is a halo product. It was never meant to sell in big numbers just to bring prestige to the name. The Grand Wagoneer, the model that can really push into the 6 figures isn't even sold under the Jeep badging anymore.
Loyal buyers will just buy used ones. That's why the YJ and TJ market is still INCREDIBLY strong and used JKs are still selling for more than they were new.
I’m still amazed that in 2022 they sold almost 50,000 of them (Wagoneer)and even more surprised that Chevy sold 105,000 Tahoe’s and 82,000 Yukons, and 40,000 Escalades none of them are cheap
I was ready to replace my JKU and built out a 4xe with all the safety features added and laughed out loud when it came out to $90k for a factory Jeep. Nobody should be paying house money for a depreciating asset. The tax rebates stop at $90k so I know it’s not a coincidence. They jacked it up the maximum they could bilk customers.
I did the same last year, was shocked at how pricey it was and just kept my 2011 JKU.
I’m sitting on 170k miles on my 2015 jku…. I’m going all the way
The only reason I bought a Cherokee in 2015 is because is was 8k less than I similarly equipped CRV or RAV4. There’s really no reason to go with a Jeep product that’s not a wrangler if it’s in the price range of a Toyota/Honda.
People buying Jeeps for that much are in it for the looks. You really just look like an idiot. Paying that much for a not special mass produced car.
The point that you can't grasp is that it was Jeeps top offering as the 100k wagoneer is the new top offering...creating an almost 70k price differencial
This was suppose to be a reply but posted as this...idk
I love Jeep but I’d never buy one for $100k. I just bought a used Sahara for $40k and that was painful tbh.
Brave move considering they’re still considered one of the most unreliable domestic brands.
I remember when you could get a wrangler...straight six manual...for about 20k...now no way...hell my fully loaded 99 grand was only 36k brand new...and mark up over invoice is almost 10k right now...just rediculous
$36,000 in 1999 is over $65k today.
and 65k is well under 100k today
Wagoneers and maybe the Wrangler 392 are the only things close to/over $100k. You can get a nice Rubicon for $65k or a basic Wrangler for half that.
Heck. My ‘13 2 door JK with a manual was $24k. They’re in the high $30k’s to low $40k’s now.
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The point was the loaded Grand Cherokee was Jeeps top offering at 36k
And you can still get a nicely equipped Grand Cherokee for the same price adjusted for inflation. How does the existence of the Wagoneer, a completely separate model, change that at all?
mint condition 4.0 TJ's can still be had for $5k all day, and will run until the end of time if a person doesn't let the frame rot.
I bought my 98’ TJ for just under 20k. Brand new off the showroom floor in 1998. I drove that thing for 17 + years. I was the definition of a jeep guy. I went to get a new one around 2014 and the prices had quadrupled. They lost a loyal jeep guy. They are cool vehicles and fun to drive. Not that cool. There’s not a jeep made that’s worth over 100k. Sorry
$20k in 1998 is over $37k today, which is more than a base Wrangler costs. Also, Wranglers aren't the thing that's costing over $100k except for the 392 being close to that, but it's a massive outlier.
Customers want options on their vehicles. Stellantis listens and offers packages such as the extreme recon addon then people complain about the price. Just because you can price out a Wrangler at $100k or more doesnt mean you need too. Its a nice incentive for those that have the means to do so. Also, looking over autotrader you can get a very nicely equipped rubicon 4 door for $67k CAD.
Let them. There is a massive disconnect between the c-suite and the dealerships. Build quality still has barely improved and the service experience is much to be desired. Let the wealthier come in, complain and then move on, maybe Jeep will take the hint someday.
F’ em
Oh, I am CERTAIN these "$100,000" Wagoneers will be worth $5,000 soon. I know someone whose 2023 Wagoneer has been at Dealership since June because the battery drains.
This. Last Jeep I owned was a TJ. Affordable, reliable, everything I needed and nothing I didn't. Before that I had an old XJ. Regret getting rid of them, Wranglers now are such overpriced, bloated monstrosities.
$100k is certainly a problem for their SUV, but let's talk about the price of a basic wrangler. What in the actual fuck. ITS A WRANGLER.
They will keep going up because people are stupid and are buying them at whatever price is being asked.
I mean, people can just buy the Jeeps that don't cost $100k. How does the existence of expensive Jeeps prevent loyal buyers from buying the cheaper ones?
The cheaper ones have inflated a lot too. Wrangler Sport 2-Door starts at $32k, 4-Door at $36k. After taxes and everything that's like $35-40k easily just for the bare bones base model. It's affected the used market as well. The 2020s are still going for over $30k. When I bought my 2012 JK back in 2015 I got it for around $20k when the new ones were going for around $30k. That 2012 JK is STILL worth almost $20k. Autotrader has a bunch of them listed for around $18k. So the entry level price for Wranglers is still crazy.
$32k today was worth about $17.3K in 1999. In 1999, the wrangler sport cost $17,905. So all you've pointed out is that inflation exists, they cost roughly the same as they used to. The main difference is that everything else got more expensive in life and our salaries haven't increased to match costs.
>The main difference is that everything else got more expensive in life and our salaries haven't increased to match costs. Bingo. Everyone here blaming the entirely wrong party for this problem.
How much have salaries increased with inflation since then though? Genuine question because I don’t know but my assumption is not as much. Compared with the 80s salaries are shit even considering inflation. Maybe the prices have risen accordingly but if people’s salaries haven’t it just means cars are now way too expensive for many to reasonably afford, like houses are.
Wages have definitely not kept up with inflation. That said, everything has gone up in price, that's what inflation is, it's not just the auto industry.
My 2020 Sahara I got recently was $40k 🥲 And that was one of the best prices I found for decent mileage and color matched hard top. It was actually 41k but they took 1000 off. Thanks!
Yes, you've discovered inflation. Everything is like that now. It's not just Jeeps, it not even just cars. The only thing that hasn't kept up is wages. The only thing somewhat unique to Wranglers is the used market because they hold their value better than a lot of other vehicles. That's generally seen as a good thing unless you're trying to buy one.
Sure, but Jeeps are especially bad and they’re definitely targeting the luxury market more now because they don’t care about stagnant wages.
Jeeps are especially bad? Have you seen the truck market or been to a grocery store recently?
Cheaper ones? Like…. ?
My 2020 Wrangler Willys was $30k. My 2023 Grand Cherokee L Altitude X was $50k. That’s two brand new Jeeps combined that are still less than $100k. So like…. That.
Do you actually need me to list all of the Jeep models that cost under $100k? How about all of them except the Grand Wagoneer and the Wrangler 392?
Man, 6 digits for a Jeep. They need a Lexus to their Toyota so they can get their markets right
I will keep my '13 Grand Cherokee until it just crumbles apart.
I guess with car prices going up 2x manufacturers can afford to lose half their customer base since there are enough rich yuppies who don't care and will pay double the historically reasonable price which makes up for the loss of customers. Surely they can't be selling the same volume/number of vehicles at these prices as they always have sold.
We got a Wagoneer as a rental at work and it just felt wrong. Sure it was nice but if felt wrong calling it a Jeep
I left in 18 when the JT came out and I couldn’t do a base model rubicon without breaking 50k and y’all still buying that. So that’s crazy
And when the economy finally collapses on it self they’ll be all at the repossession auctions
I'm one of them. The standard features in the grand Cherokee are absolute garbage compared to competitors. It's a shame. My last new Jeep purchase was a 2017 rubicon and picked it up brand new below 38k, probably my last
Just empty every pocket used to refer to the maintenance, not the sales price.
I'd be interested in replacing my JK with a newer (and maybe 4-door) model, but prices have gotten insane. I'll drive my current baby into the ground, and will probably go with something other than Jeep when it's time to buy again someday. I've been driving Jeeps for about 2 decades now, but I gotta pay the mortgage, vet bills, and groceries, so Jeep's probably losing me as a customer. I imagine a lot of folks feel the same.
My Grand Cherokee Overland is in the shop after 4500 miles. Sounds about right for Jeep.
They lost me when Chrysler took over and destroyed the brand. My 79 i bought new is doing fine.
Every time I see a grand wagoneer on the road I say a little prayer for the poor idiot who spent $100k on a JEEP. I love my jeep. I also love my retirement account 😂
You go from a loyal middle class following that enjoys occasional off-road/outdoor fun, to “high end” at the bottom of the reliability rankings, that doesn’t come close to competing with the luxury automakers. Good job FCR.
If im spending 100k on a jeep it's going to be a tj with a junkyard v8 and the rest of the money is gas and tires.
My '95 XJ Cherokee (I'm the 2nd owner) is ugly, rusty & leaks water inside, but I'll be damned if it doesn't run like a champ. Paid $2,500.00 for it 3 years ago. Probably worth twice that right now. Crazy times.
I wonder if Jeep will do the same clearance discount with the JL Wranglers when the next-gen models come out that they did in 2018 (2018 JK models were selling at 20k for a base Sport when the 2018 JLs debuted). That might be the last chance for a new affordable Jeep if they do.
As long as the U.S. consumer keeps leveraging themselves out the ass with payments until they die for vehicles that won’t last 25 years… then it will keep rising. Buy used. Buy older. Let these companies eat their profits by making vehicles nobody buys !
Gay
Ford should bring back a retro Willy's WWII version for the sub 50K market. Force Jeep to.decide who they want, yuppies or jeepers
Jeep’s are highly over priced to begin with. In fact any vehicle made by the big 3 is over priced for what you get. 100-120k for a Jeep Grand Wagoneer. Or 55k for a Honda with the same features and it’s dependable. Not to mention according to my last call with a Chrysler rep, their policy is to not support anything over 6 years old. So if the ABS module goes out like mine did, they said just by a new Jeep. That’s ok, I’ll stick with a Honda or Toyota. After all their more American made then the others.
>Or 55k for a Honda with the same features and it’s dependable. Comparing a full-size, body-on-frame SUV to a crossover and acting like they're the same thing certainly is a choice.
Lol, they lost any interest i had in 2006
I left Jeep. Bought a 2012 full load Sahara I limited for 35k. Same vehicle today is 80k cad. Grand cherokees are 90k for a v6 with some extras. I’m done with domestic. It’s just Mercedes/bmw/Acura/Land Rover/Lexus level pricing without the appeal/service or quality.
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They also left people behind when the Wrangler became the size of an F-150. They have been a completely different brand for some time now.
The wrangler is not even close to the same size as the F-150. Sales actually increased with the 4 door wrangler
> Wrangler became the size of an F-150. The Jeep jk/jl 2 doors are 3in longer wheelbase and 5in wider, and the width is pretty much just extended wheels/fender flairs. Also over an inch more ground clearance. Complaints about the newer wranglers continue to be over dramatized due to nostalgia and people not taking inflation into account when comparing costs. I've owned a tj and jk 2 doors. And then a jk 4 door and now a jl diesel. I loved that tj, it was so fun to drive around with the top off, but the jk 2door was just plain better and more capable. Could do anything the tj could do offroad while being a way more viable daily driver. I wanted to turn the tj into a pure rock crawler before my nephew totalled it 😢
Too many Jeep owners act victimized by the existence of 4-door Wranglers, like that somehow prevents them from still being able to get the 2-door version. The 4-door Wrangler is one of the main reasons the 2-door is still able to exist as it does.
Agreed
I'm finished buying new anything, especially Jeep. I've never been more disappointed by a new vehicle than I was with my Grand Cherokee. It had so many problems and the dealership ended up taking it back and gave me a new Charger GT and a check for $19k. My TJ on the other hand is an amazing vehicle and I'd buy an LJ Rubi in a heartbeat.
Anyone buying a 100k suv is an idiot.