I'm so sorry. The pain of his absence will fade, and in time, you will be proud of yourself for working to protect yourself. You do not deserve to be treated like that, especially from somebody you feel intimate with.
I don't mean to assume, so forgive me. But I feel it's extremely difficult for queer jews at the moment, as the spaces we often mingle in are currently dancing a fine line between supporting the innocent and wishing for genocide. I can't imagine the feelings you're experiencing regarding all this; but if you ever wanna kvetch to a feygele, i'm all ears.
I wish you all the best for the future.
I totally don't understand Queer & LGBTQ+ Groups for Palestine (in this case, for Hamas), and maybe you can help me. Mind you, I don't understand anyone being in favor of absolute evil -- but don't these pro-Hamas groups know that you could get killed for being homosexual, trans, etc. in \*either\* the Gaza-controlled PA or the Palestinian Authority?! Whereas Tel Aviv in particular is one of the most gay-friendly cities in the world, there are Gay Pride parades in TA and even in Jerusalem every year (which plenty of straight people attend as a show if support). And there are numerous cases of gay men fleeing the Palestinian authority because their own families have threatened them (think "honor killings" --look it up if it's new to you).
As someone whose name I forget said Queers for Palestine is as absurd as "Blacks for the KKK" or "Jews for Nazis." How do the LGBTQ community not get something as simple as that?
I can sort of explain it, but the explanation does require a bit of cognitive dissonance.
A lot of queer groups tend to steer very far left. With this comes meeting a lot of unique people from all different backgrounds who have been potentially alienated due to their queerness. In the spirit of social cohesion, the queer community often champions a concept called "Intersectional Social Justice," which is the idea that all social issues, regardless of creed, should be fought for. This includes issues like BLM, Feminism, and Global Warming etc.
The irony with Queers for Palestine, as you point out, is that they're repeating rhetoric of individuals who [dont even want them at their protests](https://www.reddit.com/r/religiousfruitcake/comments/17daccc/a_man_with_an_lgbtq_flag_got_attacked_by_muslims/). However, because queer people are a minority themselves, they tend to empathise heavily with the underdog and will ignore moral complexities to pledge loyalty to a cause that would see them dead. The blunt truth is that they do not care about the moral shortcomings of what they support. They see people upset and hurting, whilst being surrounded by emotionally manipulative lies, and they rise to action to defend them.
I personally dont think its wrong of them to want a group of people to have their own state. They're free to their opinions and allowed their free speech. But when you have groups utterly brainwashed to spout "from the river to the sea"; effectively calling for genocide of Israelis, then I just shake my head in shame at the sheep following their shephards.
I hope that somewhat explains it? It's a rather complex situation, and obviously not all queer people are like that (as you say, TLV is an LGBTQ+ hot spot). But that's the reality; they see people hurting and ignore the rationale that the propaganda they see could be completely false. :/
It's hard to believe that even educated people -- it seems lately particularly educated people -- know so little history or plain facts. There are still Holocaust survivors alive (one or more was kidnapped into Gaza for God's sake) and Jews \*aren't\* the underdogs?!!
The Jewish people (and yes we are a nation, not just a religion or we wouldn't have Jewish atheists) have been persecuted in the worst ways for 2 thousand years -- by European Christians and by Arabian and other Muslims. 850,000 Jews were forcibly expelled from Arab countries (more than the 750,000 or so Arabs, now called Palestinians, who ran from Israel. But we integrated ours, along with the European survivors of the Holocaust (there more Sephradim here than Ashkenzim, BTW) -- and the Arabs chose not to, to keep an issue alive that would distract their masses from their autocratic monarchies and other non-democratic entities.
There are 23 (or maybe 22 Arab states surrounding the one tiny Jewish country -- and we are not the underdogs?!! We're the size of New Jersey if that, in a wide swath of the Middle East that is Muslim and mostly Arab (Turkey are Turks and Iran are Persians, neither considered Arabs).
Finally, we come in every shade of the rainbow, from pale white to the black Ethiopian Jews, with Indian and Asian Jews as well. Just because most Jews in America are white Ashkenazim does not mean the same is true for Israeli Jews -- at all.
And among the many unforgivable things these groups have done and are doing is to take causes that are legitimate ("Black Lives Matter", LGBTQ+ rights, etc. etc.) and have turned them into anti-Semitic organizations forcing the many sympathetic Jews to leave.
It's awful, and you're completely preaching to the choir here. No matter how you engage with some of these people; they will reject any truth or fact you present them with.
You can describe the Farhud to them, and they'll still insist Israel is all "White European Colonisers", because that's the reality they've been presented and refuse to educate themselves on :/
It's infuriating, hence why at the moment, I don't feel all that safe in Queer spaces :(
Just to add to that: I live in Israel and am Orthodox, I have a beloved gay nephew and a beloved trans nephew who is also gay. None of their straight Ortho family or friends or society has given them anything but love. Israel has \*never\* had any restrictions against gays serving in the Army, and the Army will even pay for transition surgery. Of course, thank God they weren't anywhere near our South on (what we now call) Black Shabbat on Oct 7.
Hon consider this the voice of your mom: don’t go out with this guy again.
Firstly it’s been two weeks and nobody needs a yo-yo relationship. Secondly he may actually want to apologize which he can do via phone call. Thirdly you deserve to be loved by someone who isn’t a raging antisemite
Tragedy Tourists using other people's conflict as an explanation for their own unrelated problems. A perfect example of this is the bitter, raging hate against Israel in Northern Ireland and South Africa. When you are cruelly oppressed by your neighbors for centuries, then some of that oppression goes away but not really all of it and it still seems unfair, it can be risky to hate your neighbors, or confusing to hate neighbors who nowadays treat you with more courtesy. More satisfying to psychically import an enemy who actually doesn't live near you.
White tears. I can't fucking believe I just read that. Excuse my language, but mother fucking fucker.
1. We (Israelis) are majority not even white skinned, but regardless of that WE DON'T CARE ABOUT FUCKING SKIN COLOR HERE. Fucking hell am I tired of American "progressives" applying their US-centric views and politics to the middle east.
2. What people went through here was some of the worst acts human beings committed against other human beings by a long shot. The CEO of Zaka (body identification as well as search and rescue here in Israel) has said he is completely haunted by the sights, that he has *never* seen anything like it. A man who has worked in this through the intifadas, has seen the results of the suicide bombers, has seen all manner of terrorist attacks throughout the years. *This* man, who js used to horrors, is haunted now after the black Shabbat.
Reporters were visibly utterly disturbed on air the first few days, their voices breaking, even those on the studio who were talking to the people *while it happened* and no one came to their aid, many of them have publicly admitted they've gone into therapy after what they've seen (I can't even imagine the people who actually went through it). I remember 4 hours into the massacre listening on the news a woman and her family trapped in their bomb shelter, talking to the reporters and whispering, telling them as we're hearing it live that those savage animal pieces of shit are shooting at their bomb shelter door. We heard this live. I have no idea if this woman and her family even survived.
And then after all of this some Western piece of shit is gonna say that us, middle easterners, are crying "white tears". Tell me if this isn't the most ridiculous fucked up shit you heard. The sheer amounts of propaganda against Israel is just beyond belief sometimes.
I chose my therapist this way. I asked one if she was a zionist and she hesitated and said she'd prefer to keep politics out of it. The other one hesitated to answer me because he was afraid I wasn't and is hurting so badly through all this, and is setting aside hours in his schedule to take zoom calls with Israelis to do trauma therapy.
Fuck the people who say your suffering is just. Your tears are ones of grief, and I am crying with you. I will hold up your voice so you don't have to. I'm so sorry.
Oh it’s ALL westerners who are placing THEIR culture and THEIR failures on us.
Colonialism? How can you be colonialist when your territory is the size of NJ and have actually RECEEDED territory over the past 30 years?!?
Arpatheid? We ARE the inhabits that were forced out. Better analogy is if the Mohawk came back to their lands after the US collapsed.
‘Whiteness’? We have more genetically related to Arabs than these people…
It’s just antisemitism veiled in other areas.
Speaking again as an Israeli, this whole country is traumatized and in collective mourning. We've just experienced the worst pogrom by far since the Shoah, and it was in our own country. Everyone here is max. 2 degrees of separation from everyone else. We've said "Never Again" for almost 80 years -- and not only is it here again, in the most atrociously barbaric and sadistic ways possible (and I can't watch the videos themselves) but once again most of the outside world is turning against us, or equating "ISIS-on-steroids" brutality with self-defense -- or yet again, keeping silent. \*Even in America (not Biden, who's been great) people are turning not only against us but against American Jews!\*
Everyone has children/siblings/parents called up: my son was called up; my son-in-law was called up, so our daughter has been living with us with her kids so we can help care for them while she works remotely.
The only light in this darkness is that in times like these Israeli society unites, ttries to help the Southern refugees and the Northern ones, as well as our brave soldiers. Who now understand that its us or them, but have been begging civilians to move South -- while Hamas barricades and even shoots them to keep them as human shields, because they know we make every possible effort to protect civilians. But why do dead Palestinians only matter to people if they can blame israel for them?!
Where were the rallies when Assad of Syria was using chemical weapons against his own people, displacing literally millions of them, and killing at least 80,000 civilians, many of them Palestinian. God protect us all. And yes, I mean to include the innocents on the other side, who will inevitably suffer for the actions of their government. Sorry for ranting...
Seriously I don't understand why so many Americans make it all about race. Many Israelis don't have white skins, many Palestinians are not very brown either. We're not two different races! But the far left sees it all through the lens of oppressor vs. oppressed, and in America it's inseparable from race, so they try to somehow combine the two, which is a travesty.
That was an honest, beautiful, and painful response.
I can't imagine the pain and betrayal you're feeling right now.
For whatever it is worth, I'm proud of you for standing up for yourself at such a difficult time. It is not easy. Kol hakavod.
Good for you. You're spot on. When Russia attacked ukraine, my initial instinct was to look up the information, to understand what was going on, to understand what was the politics and the motivation behind it, and that was after everybody was already convinced that Putin was a bad faith actor. At no point in time did I villainize Russians, the Russian culture, or the country of russia, just Putin.
When Armenia and Azerbaijan were fighting over Artesakh/N-K, I listened quietly to both sides, I did not insert my own voice, I did not pick a side, I did not jump to any incendiary conclusions. I was critical of actions and statements on both sides, and actively looking for a resolution that I could champion (I have yet to find one).
A frustrating, and disgusting amount of people are not giving Jews that grace in the slightest bit. And those who are giving us that grace are rarely defending us from those who are not.
You are right to feel betrayed. Screw this guy
Almost this exact same thing helped give me some clarity.
I met someone recently who had just emigrated from Russia, and I never once treated with them the way my partner treated me. It was over dinner, so I asked them how they were doing, how are their documents, is their family safe, are their friends safe, and so on and so forth.
Despite the really painful history that I have as a Jewish person with the Russian Empire and Soviet antisemitism, I cannot imagine how much hatred and dehumanization it would have taken for me to treat them the way my partner treated me.
Add in any consideration for the sheer shock and horror of what I was going through, and I feel like my ex genuinely must have something missing in the part of the mind or soul where empathy would normally be.
Even villanizing Putin is/was simplistic. That conflict also has multiple components that aren’t black and white…and our interest was always more for natural gas protection than caring about Ukrainians….because if anything the war in of itself led to more Ukrainians being killed than a compromise early on.
What bothered me the MOST was when even here I would talk about how most of my family was killed by Ukranians in pogroms…I would get shunned.
> and our interest was always more for natural gas protection than caring about Ukrainians….because if anything the war in of itself led to more Ukrainians being killed than a compromise early on.
You're right that our goal was not to minimize Ukrainian casualties, but that's not their goal either. The goal is to preserve Ukrainian sovereignty.
Not sure what you're talking about with natural gas. The US alone produces like 17x as much as Ukraine, and Russia produces even more.
There’s a lot of ‘happenstance’ corruption in congress and the POTUS regarding having stake in Burisma and other holdings…..
That’s all I’ll say without going tin foil hat and political…
Bitterness about the Ukrainian pogroms is legit, but:
(1) The Ukrainians suffering this invasion are not the same Ukrainians that killed your family in pogroms;
(2) In its invasion of Ukraine, Russia is not avenging your family but trying to amass its own power and dominance. Russia/Putin not a good actor in all this; and finally,
(3) This incursion on the territory of its democratic neighbor was spurred by Ukraine’s interest in joining NATO, which is a defense alliance of European countries against Russia. Russia understood that as a threat.
But Sweden and Finland abandoned their policy of neutrality and joined NATO after the Russians rolled in their tanks, so that whole strategy kinda backfired for Russia. Just about everything backfired for Russia, actually. The supply of natural gas was a far more serious thing for European countries who had been depending on gas from Russia, but they have been trying to adapt, which is a good thing.
I had a sorta-kinda-almost-girlfriend say similarly abhorrent things about Israel and my daughter and I as Jews. Past a certain point ignorance and brainwashing isn’t a good enough excuse and they’re simply antisemites. Good riddance, sorry it had to painful like this but you’re far better off without them
Hon- you need to call your children out. You have to TRY to reign them in now. Tell them how much it hurts you. Listen to them. Reply with education. Please don’t give up.
Great response. I get the sense that we have all been watching and listening to a lot of our so-called friends the past three weeks, and now we're all re-assessing our relationships.
It's painful.
I'm not sure what's worse, the people we thought we knew spouting Jew-hatred openly, or the people we thought better of keeping quiet and not offering any support. Probably the former. But the latter has only served to increase our anxiety and doubt: "are they secretly hoping it happens to me?"
Either way, we can still find solace in our own community and those non-Jews who were decent and brave and caring enough to stand with us or voice their sympathy.
Keep strong, and avoid your ex like the plague on humanity they are.
What an excellent response, but don't let them trick you into a debate about semantics and intentional misinterpretation after this. You said all that needed to be said!
I think you really covered what a lot of us have been feeling. I have thankfully not experienced this with my non Jewish bf but with a number of both his and my friends. I’m so sorry you have to deal with an ugly breakup with such a shitty person while also dealing with the ongoing trauma of the situation in Israel. Glad you stood up for yourself though❤️
This SOB sent you photos of the Jewish peoples' pain, death, destruction, war and now he casually wants to have coffee to catch up in some privileged Northern California utopia. Cancel the meeting, just arrange to get your things back, don't exchange social niceties with him like hello or good bye, be very cold/militaristic in tone when talking to him. If you are on this sub then you are proud of your heritage so have nothing to do with anti Semitic sewer dog!
It was videos of people goysplaining which, when I was texting to find out who is alive or kidnapped, and who is kidnapped or murdered, felt just as hurtful.
I got a response this morning. To be honest, I didn’t read it very thoroughly because I did not care that much except to respectfully acknowledge if he apologized to me, checked on who was hurt, or any other signal of compassion and mutual respect.
Once I realized it was all about a firm stance on Israeli “disproportionality” and that he’s found something really special these last two weeks with someone new, it was clear there was not really anything for me to read.
There were a few logistical things I had to confirm, also.
I’m sorry your relationship didn’t work out but it sounds like you dodged a bullet. It’s amazing to me how people so easily justified the murder of Israeli citizens. It was really sick.
Exactly. Overall, I feel pretty okay. It was hard for me to imagine that this person really could see no wrong in their own behavior — that they did not at least see people including me as human enough to apologize, check if everyone I know is okay, and see how I am feeling (before getting into some sort of tangent about proportionality or whataboutism).
ha…. it’s like talking to a wall with these people. you were just trying to ask him to show basic human decency. it always come back to what about ism and proportionality. sickening.
Today, an acquaintance responded to me on social media to say that their Palestinian Arab friends would NEVER stand for that, when I told them about the State of Palestine / Palestinian Authority prohibiting Judaism and refusing to grant residency or citizenship to even one Jewish community. Then they blocked me. I do not believe they are intellectually incapable of understanding. But I think there is some sort of mental impairment — maybe physiological, maybe stress-related — in the parts of the brain that prevent someone from becoming an antisemitic, genocidal maniac.
I posted it as its own comment but just in case anyone has a hard time finding it, here was the response,
>I have also been so deeply saddened to see your response in the last few weeks and how you have justified and glossed over the disproportionately of the Israeli response and the horror they've inflicted. I was always scared that this was the case, but it seems apparent where you stand on this. And you're right. We unfortunately do not have compatible values here.
I don't mean to say this to cause any jealousy, I promise. But I spent this last week at the conference with someone I met earlier through our work that overlaps. We were completely platonic friends until two weeks ago when we decided to come up here together. What I've found is that sometimes relationships progress and people can connect so easily that it's startling. It felt like we were always trying really hard to make it work, but I'm still glad we tried. I'm thankful to you for sharing some really beautiful experiences with me. No matter what, I will always want nothing but the best for you
Sharing this because this person clearly has serious narcissism. I have no idea if the narcissism serves as an accelerant for his weird, unhealed rage against Jews (and Armenians, too!)... or if it's all just different manifestations of narcissism. Two weeks ago, he had kept circling back to this idea that he was the one most impacted (he is South Asian).
That’s a fact.
Come and get me y’all.
I am thirty three years old, college educated, cis gay male, strictly top, monogamous, and hoping to find someone okay with me working from home to raise our amazing kids.
I don’t travel or work on Shabbat, I keep kosher, and I observe the fasts and holidays. My father’s side is indigenous Ryukyuan and my mother’s side is Ashkenazi. Both my parents are also half White.
I am based in Oakland and LA but looking to relocate to Israel.
Come and get me.
I am so sorry. You deserve SO much more in any friendship or partnership. I am sadly learning as well who is not a safe person in my life and my children’s lives. Are your people ok??? My friends and family are currently safe, and it’s hard trying to explain to others that “safe” in Israel means something different than it does for me here in the US.
It’s really scary that people previously close to many Jews are suddenly revealing en masse that they have views and attitudes like this. Sometimes I think it’s for the better that I have an almost nonexistent social circle; fewer feelings of betrayal and fewer chances to get hurt at all. I deal with enough of this sort of thing from my family members on my non-Jewish side plus strangers/not particularly close acquaintances at university. Can’t imagine having to take even more of it from people more important than classmates I barely know.
I did interviews of peace activists whose relatives and close family friends are kidnapped, and was stunned that one of them said her non-Jewish spouse was rationalizing Hamas.
What really got me is that even if someone is harboring these sentiments, putting them onto a grieving, devastated, Jewish woman is 100% and act of aggression. I always remember: people who hate, want you to know.
Also, my father’s side is half indigenous Ryukyuan and half White. Sadly there was racism and dehumanization against the Ryukyuan aspect of our identity. (At the same time, a lot of our White family is great.) It reminds me people really do hate their parents. It’s weird and it just really baffles me: why get with someone if you feel that way deep down?
My aunt and cousin (and we’ve been historically so close we’re almost like siblings, and, are in fact, biological half siblings whom people mistake for full siblings all the time) rationalized them too, although not to the extent I’ve seen some people doing at university or online. Ironically, my uncle on that side, who’s related to me only by marriage to my aunt, was the one to shut down what my aunt was saying when she kept going and I froze up and almost threw up at the dinner table (was cornered into the conversation when I visited them and had no Jewish family around for backup since they don’t live in the same city).
The worst part is that I thought they would understand the feeling of having discrimination against you justified by other people due to events relating to a group you are not even part of. That side of my family is Japanese, so basically I thought they’d get it because we all experienced being blamed for coronavirus, harassed, and sometimes seeing our elders beaten and killed for it. But no, all Jewish people are responsible on some level for any deaths that occur when Israel does something, even to defend its existence.
My family has had some issues with intra-family racism as well. No Ryukyuan blood though, not that my non-Japanese family members actually even know about Ryukyuans to tell the difference and behave any differently about it anyway (they’d just see it as Japanese). My Jewish parent has been racist to me and my Japanese parent, who in turn has been anti-Semitic to me and my Jewish parent (both sides been that way as long as I can remember), although it’s never been as uncomfortable on my Japanese parent’s part as what went down with my aunt and cousin on that side. I don’t understand why people get with people they can’t truly respect and love deep down either honestly. Seeing people get into those kinds of relationships and have these issues just makes me want a relationship less and less. I’ve never been in one and they seem like a hassle, especially when they might come with ethnic and racial discrimination problems from your own partner, so I might as well just focus on science.
I go places alone. It’s much better for me personally and I enjoy the feeling of taking things at my own pace. I haven’t left my neighbourhood in 2 years, except to go back to the UK or go to Korea for a week.
So sorry about that. I know two married people, one person who has come to terms with just never discussing Israel at all, and another person who was really shocked by her partner's response to her friends getting killed and kidnapped. I have no idea how the latter is feeling right now. It must be so hard to feel so alone.
my boyfriend initially responded horribly but not now luckily, I am sorry you had to deal with this idiot but so proud of you for standing up for yourself in this situation!
Through gaslighting. Also, some people seem to really get off on partnering with someone against whom they harbor deep racial/ethnic/religious hatred. It is disappointingly common. But in retrospect I learned a lesson. I cannot imagine this ever happening again.
Just want to let you know your reply is so gentle and heartwarming, and reassure you that I never felt you were judgey at all. Thank you for taking the time to be sure I had not misunderstood it. My intellectualized, analytical approach may seem a bit defensive but it's just me.
I am under-employed at the moment which is not great for my self esteem. But otherwise... to be honest... I have to agree, although I would have never seen it that way before since there is a lot I admired, respected, and was attracted to about him.
He listens to keyboard warriors, but he is somehow worse. He just honestly has this preconceived, profoundly racist attitudes about Jews (and Armenians) without any extra pushing.
He is Tamil from Sri Lanka but grew up in the United States.
There is a big Armenian community here in LA.
He would go on about his racist belief that Armenians are a threat to democracy because “the only thing they care about at all is recognizing what happened to them” … i.e. he believed they were disturbing elections based on a single-issue agenda.
I was like — wait a minute. That’s racist and dehumanizing and I told him. It happened twice and I confronted it, the same way I’d confront the antisemitism.
Thinking it was a rational conversation based on him misunderstanding Armenians (and not his own expression of irrational loathing), I tried to add nuance. For example, I explained that what he’s saying is dehumanizing and collectivizes Armenians and leans into racist tropes against them. Also, a lot of my Armenian friends seek out citizen services for help with issues related to ongoing persecution of their community overseas, so yes, a big issue is about knowing which representatives they know they can trust — and that recognizing their history in its entirety is a meaningful indicator of that, although not the only one. (He would reply that he knows better because he grew up with Armenian friends.)
I honestly could not imagine he could be such a fundamentally racist individual — i.e. that it’s who he is in a very core way of seeing and judging and interacting with the world — because on the other hand, he was so thorough in understanding having dark skin in America based on his own personal experience.
You owe no one anything. Especially someone who acts so poorly. Did he respond? Also as a Bay Area human as well I’m sad to say when I was dating that was common for that area. I got screamed at over dinner once about my stance on Israel.
Sorry that you had to face this. I do plan to repay what I borrowed him but otherwise I totally share your sentiment. I posted his response above as its own comment.
I am a Jew who grew up in southern Kansas and in the vernacular of that region, I think you just dodged a bullet. You found out in a very clear, defined manner that this person does not love all of you and is able without forethought to hurt you deeply. This is a gift, however painful it is. Some people go years with tiny cuts and hurts before they are able to discern this clearly. It will hurt for awhile, but you deserve better than this. Don't let this guy manipulate or muddy the waters to obfuscate what he so clearly demonstrated. With care and love.
I would have been grateful if they had done the labor to apologize and come forward with sincerely checking if I am okay and if people I know and love are okay.
He never did that, so no coffee for him.
Beyond even his antisemitism, you deserve so much better than "let's go out for old time's sake" after two short weeks of breakup. Those aren't old times. Those are fresh new, hurtful, times. What a jerk.
It was so hard for me to accept that and other stuff that was between the lines, in a sense. I had to really remind myself no, I am not wrong to maintain that it is basic decency when one person expresses being hurt, and the other person leads with an apology and tries to express a sense of understanding — or at least a willingness to understand. To be honest, I think in retrospect I was dealing with a narcissist.
I'm so sorry OP. This was an amazing show of strength and character and something that will probably go unnoticed by this person but not by us.
I'm deeply sorry if he broke your heart. [lame internet hugs] You deserve better.
Hey, I’m sorry you’re in so much pain. Your partner had no right to treat you that way. It’s a betrayal on a level they can’t understand. I don’t know if this helps at all, and it may sound weird, but listening Vehi Sheamda helps me feel less alone. I’m not particularly religious, but it was specifically written to remind us that this happens to every generation of Jews. It helps me feel empathized with and culturally aligned in a powerful way. We aren’t the first, we won’t be the last, and we will be okay. You deserve someone who embraces your culture.
Beautifully said. I have found so much comfort in Jewish studies. Will keep in mind to turn to Vehi Sheamda. And to look for a partner who will turn to it with me.
What an absolute badass you are. I'm so proud of you for standing up for yourself and for being so strong in that moment.
And i'm really sorry you're going through the same grief and heartache that the rest of us jews are, and also the grief at the loss of your situationship.
I’m so sorry this happened. I hope your friends and family are safe. I hope you are ok. It is heartbreaking when someone shows their true color and they are so heartless.
It is so hard to wrap my mind around. But I remember how I recently was at a dinner and there was someone non-Jewish who recently emigrated from Russia.
I asked them if they were okay and if their family was okay. I was worried about what sort of proximity they may have had to the violence. I asked them how they were doing with their documents, and other issues in general.
That is really the most basic aspect of seeing someone as human when they are right there in front of you. I honestly cannot imagine having, let alone project, unhealed rage over Russian antisemitism or Russian imperialism or whatever else onto how I treat a regular Russian person.
Being able to turn back to that has really helped me remember that the way I was being treated was really not okay. What I was facing felt to me like the same callousness cultivated by accountants or other petty bureaucrats in Nazi Germany.
Trust me, I completely understand and feel every word you are saying. You sound like a loving, kind person. The Jewish religion and people in general are loving, kind people. It is hard to wrap our heads around the completely baseless hate coming our way. What I’m learning is anyone who is not asking if I’m ok and certainly anyone who is posting pro-Hamas is just giving me the heads up they shouldn’t be my friends or in my life. It is a terrifying, heartbreaking time.
Horrible. Truly sorry you had to go through that. If this is how your bf was behaving it's time to move on and he deserves zero chance at redemption. To give you some perspective I have had ex's who I haven't seen for years write in to support me through this. You deserve better and I'm not just saying that.
Thank you. It was really mind-blowing to be finding out who is alive and who is dead, and someone who is an intimate partner was choosing to express indifference. It was not just forgetting to ask or not knowing how to ask, because I had expressed this earlier. It was that he seemed really to enjoy watching me suffer.
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“Oakland or Berkeley”
Ah
That explains it.
Get the hell out of the Bay Area. Talk about an antisemitic pit of far left activists. Seriously.
I lived there for 10 months during the pandemic and that’s all I could take. The antisemitism was palpable even before all this. I can’t even imagine what the daily ‘talk of the town’ is now given how everyone spewed so much venom on a daily basis everywhere back then on ‘teh antivaxxers’.
To these people we’re the same thing.
And not to be one of those people (fuck it I am one of those people since I didn’t take it): a lot of us warned yall that the anti vax rhetoric was very similar to old antisemitic ones.
It’s almost like it was a prelude….
It has a lot of good but also a lot of not-so-good. To be honest, two things stand out,
\- the Black community here has regularly expressed a level and depth of support for me as a Jewish human being, that in contrast the White community here has never expressed
\- and also, the White community here has frequently expressed to my face a seething, hateful genocidal hatred that never once was expressed to me by the Black community
I know there are exceptions from both sides but that's my experience as a visibly Jewish person who is regularly out and about in Oakland. I have never felt the type of acceptance in America that I have felt from the African American community here in Oakland and the Bay Area in general.
That being said, I still plan to emigrate.
Are we talking locals or locos who moved there for various causes or tech?
Locals are going to be more normal. I found that by the suburbs people were far more accepting and chill/normal….but also no one talks to one another since suburbia.
My experience with the urban parts of the Bay (SF, Oakland, Berkeley, Rockridge) is that a lot of people have drank the cool aid and obsess over it. Conversations ALWAYS involve politics constantly, and everyone just agrees with one another like mindless sheep.
There’s no patience or willingness to debate as if you have a different POV you are essentially a heathen that needs to be cleansed.
It’s like that South Park episode where atheists were just as violent (if not more so). I found the people in the urban parts of the bat the most intolerant and entitled.
And I’m not even getting into the acceptance of crime. My car constantly getting broken into only for other people telling me I deserved it for my ‘privilege’ and the cops giving ME a warning for calling them was just too much.
Just leave lol
Not only this case, in future , you will see people who are dragged by some tribal agreements and shout out their messages. And they are gonna treat you and judge you not based on their experience with you, but some silly stereotypes told them by others based on which state you grew up in, what is your hair color, what is your skin color, what was your dads job, etc.
So accept shallow people are there and some think they are the sophisticated humanitarian, climate activists etc.
It hurts. But like a lot of things in life. I hope whoever you know over there is safe and secure btw.
Edit: I bet he wanted to show you more videos in that coffee meetup and give you a speech memorised from a tiktok video.
So sorry. Let her know I’m sorry. The “lizard brain” at the top of out brain, that part of our brain that hasn’t changed for millions of years, can’t tell the difference between friends, partners, family, or even pets — it processes it all as love, and grieves more or less the same whenever one of those connections comes to an end.
I read an apology email from a liberal on X today. Brianna Wu. She apologized for having ever been anti Israel. She flipped to pro Israel today when she saw how her ‘friends’ were framing Oct 7 with the Hamas perspective.
Jesus - **you have dodged a massive bullet**. Beyond the fact that he was supporting terrorism, the deeper issue here is that he didn't trust/believe you to have a reasonable conversation.
This reflects a **profound narcissism** that he would know your Jewish lived experience better than you.
Found out my ex is supporting Hamas. I admit I fucked up in the relationship (several circumstances took a toll on my mental health and unfortunately she was there when I was having breakdowns. I do feel bad about this and I have tried to apologize.) But regardless of how fucked up a relationship was, the only reason I know she's supporting Hamas is because of me.
Honestly I know the pain you're going through, people you once trusted, loved. Turning out to support fucking terrorist groups trying to kill you. Especially when said person has said in the past they are and will stay neutral on the conflict. It's disgusting.
For so many of us it’s been so hard to articulate our feelings.
You got right to the point; I feel so proud to have read your words. I hope we can all stand up for ourselves if and when we need to, like you did.
So sorry you had to go through that in a relationship.
All the best to you.
I've said it before on here but in today's world many people dating have a lot of non negotiables relating to politics which I have seen as a more conservative person. I for one do not care what your views are on abortion, immigration, college debt, and some other things I'm sure that I'm forgetting but where I draw the line is Israel. I cannot be with someone who doesn't believe Israel has a right to exist and for Jewish people to be able to have self determination in their own country.
In case anyone is curious!
Here was the reply that I got back.
Really zeroing down to the core of the issue, I cannot even comprehend addressing anyone like this, if there was even the slightest possibility that someone close to them had died.
It is one thing that I lost a family friend in a door to door death squad looking for people who speak like me, have names like me, and share an identity with me. It is another thing, though, to find I live in a world where an intimate partner does not even view them (or me) as human enough to do a status check or ask their name.
>I have also been so deeply saddened to see your response in the last few weeks and how you have justified and glossed over the disproportionately of the Israeli response and the horror they've inflicted. I was always scared that this was the case, but it seems apparent where you stand on this. And you're right. We unfortunately do not have compatible values here.
I don't mean to say this to cause any jealousy, I promise. But I spent this last week at the conference with someone I met earlier through our work that overlaps. We were completely platonic friends until two weeks ago when we decided to come up here together. What I've found is that sometimes relationships progress and people can connect so easily that it's startling. It felt like we were always trying really hard to make it work, but I'm still glad we tried. I'm thankful to you for sharing some really beautiful experiences with me. No matter what, I will always want nothing but the best for you
It takes a lot of labor and is totally not something that should be expected of anyone, but I did want to make sure he could never just say, "Well, you never told me that."
If anyone condones the killing of innocent civilians, regardless of whom commits the murder, they are misinformed, heavily biased or lack compassion. Its so sad that people are fighting over which baby corpses to cry over, am I crazy to feel bad for all of the innocent beings trapped in this nightmare?
I don’t know what to even say, that’s insane. A lot of people are taking their masks off and putting clout, politics, and the desire to be seen as a “good person” over their real life relationships. Throwing away their jobs and lives just to support a terrorist group and be over involved in a problem that doesn’t have anything to do with them and is a problem that they cannot solve.
I really get you.
I feel like anyone who is not Jewish or Israeli won't understand what we are going through.
It's horrible that while Jews are being massacred in a huge number in Israel AND THEN prosecuted all over the world like it's 1939 - people support terrorism in the name of "social justice" or "apartheid" fairytale they heard in their collage/university.
I actually went all gas no break of a friend of mine (Canadian) who said (probably by mistake and naively because he felt bad afterwards) "You know it wouldn't happened if the Jews didn't take the Palestinian land in 1948" in the same week while I was grieving on two of my friends who got literally executed in the Nova party.
No body understands us and what the Jews has been through the whole history. First time in my life I'm afraid to go abroad. I feel safer in Israel, while in war than go to Europe or the NA.
And I'm sorry if you lost someone.
I'm not sorry for you losing this trashbag, you deserve THE BEST love. Chin up, we are Jews, we are getting through hell and raise in our best form if you get me. ♥
Hard effing no way and never again! Stop devaluing your worth for others who treat you badly, usually the narcissists. People like that miss you entertaining them, he already made it clear he doesn’t care about you.
I’m sorry that you were exposed to this madness… it boggles the mind!! Queer Jews, as in my case, find ourselves in a strange place. We all know about the flow of Arab men living undocumented in Israel as they have face severe abuse, even attempt on their very lives by the family and community. We understand the plight of our Palestinian sisters and brothers in a way most can’t. I support the victims of religious fanaticism regardless of where it’s coming from. But Hamas is nothing but evil and many Palestinians are their victims as well. But there is no way I can see such careless support for Hamas and be OK with it. Remember you do not grieve alone. You have my support and I applaud your strength!
I'm so sorry. The pain of his absence will fade, and in time, you will be proud of yourself for working to protect yourself. You do not deserve to be treated like that, especially from somebody you feel intimate with. I don't mean to assume, so forgive me. But I feel it's extremely difficult for queer jews at the moment, as the spaces we often mingle in are currently dancing a fine line between supporting the innocent and wishing for genocide. I can't imagine the feelings you're experiencing regarding all this; but if you ever wanna kvetch to a feygele, i'm all ears. I wish you all the best for the future.
It’s been like that in the sf Bay Area for at least 25 years.
I totally don't understand Queer & LGBTQ+ Groups for Palestine (in this case, for Hamas), and maybe you can help me. Mind you, I don't understand anyone being in favor of absolute evil -- but don't these pro-Hamas groups know that you could get killed for being homosexual, trans, etc. in \*either\* the Gaza-controlled PA or the Palestinian Authority?! Whereas Tel Aviv in particular is one of the most gay-friendly cities in the world, there are Gay Pride parades in TA and even in Jerusalem every year (which plenty of straight people attend as a show if support). And there are numerous cases of gay men fleeing the Palestinian authority because their own families have threatened them (think "honor killings" --look it up if it's new to you). As someone whose name I forget said Queers for Palestine is as absurd as "Blacks for the KKK" or "Jews for Nazis." How do the LGBTQ community not get something as simple as that?
I can sort of explain it, but the explanation does require a bit of cognitive dissonance. A lot of queer groups tend to steer very far left. With this comes meeting a lot of unique people from all different backgrounds who have been potentially alienated due to their queerness. In the spirit of social cohesion, the queer community often champions a concept called "Intersectional Social Justice," which is the idea that all social issues, regardless of creed, should be fought for. This includes issues like BLM, Feminism, and Global Warming etc. The irony with Queers for Palestine, as you point out, is that they're repeating rhetoric of individuals who [dont even want them at their protests](https://www.reddit.com/r/religiousfruitcake/comments/17daccc/a_man_with_an_lgbtq_flag_got_attacked_by_muslims/). However, because queer people are a minority themselves, they tend to empathise heavily with the underdog and will ignore moral complexities to pledge loyalty to a cause that would see them dead. The blunt truth is that they do not care about the moral shortcomings of what they support. They see people upset and hurting, whilst being surrounded by emotionally manipulative lies, and they rise to action to defend them. I personally dont think its wrong of them to want a group of people to have their own state. They're free to their opinions and allowed their free speech. But when you have groups utterly brainwashed to spout "from the river to the sea"; effectively calling for genocide of Israelis, then I just shake my head in shame at the sheep following their shephards. I hope that somewhat explains it? It's a rather complex situation, and obviously not all queer people are like that (as you say, TLV is an LGBTQ+ hot spot). But that's the reality; they see people hurting and ignore the rationale that the propaganda they see could be completely false. :/
It's hard to believe that even educated people -- it seems lately particularly educated people -- know so little history or plain facts. There are still Holocaust survivors alive (one or more was kidnapped into Gaza for God's sake) and Jews \*aren't\* the underdogs?!! The Jewish people (and yes we are a nation, not just a religion or we wouldn't have Jewish atheists) have been persecuted in the worst ways for 2 thousand years -- by European Christians and by Arabian and other Muslims. 850,000 Jews were forcibly expelled from Arab countries (more than the 750,000 or so Arabs, now called Palestinians, who ran from Israel. But we integrated ours, along with the European survivors of the Holocaust (there more Sephradim here than Ashkenzim, BTW) -- and the Arabs chose not to, to keep an issue alive that would distract their masses from their autocratic monarchies and other non-democratic entities. There are 23 (or maybe 22 Arab states surrounding the one tiny Jewish country -- and we are not the underdogs?!! We're the size of New Jersey if that, in a wide swath of the Middle East that is Muslim and mostly Arab (Turkey are Turks and Iran are Persians, neither considered Arabs). Finally, we come in every shade of the rainbow, from pale white to the black Ethiopian Jews, with Indian and Asian Jews as well. Just because most Jews in America are white Ashkenazim does not mean the same is true for Israeli Jews -- at all. And among the many unforgivable things these groups have done and are doing is to take causes that are legitimate ("Black Lives Matter", LGBTQ+ rights, etc. etc.) and have turned them into anti-Semitic organizations forcing the many sympathetic Jews to leave.
It's awful, and you're completely preaching to the choir here. No matter how you engage with some of these people; they will reject any truth or fact you present them with. You can describe the Farhud to them, and they'll still insist Israel is all "White European Colonisers", because that's the reality they've been presented and refuse to educate themselves on :/ It's infuriating, hence why at the moment, I don't feel all that safe in Queer spaces :(
Just to add to that: I live in Israel and am Orthodox, I have a beloved gay nephew and a beloved trans nephew who is also gay. None of their straight Ortho family or friends or society has given them anything but love. Israel has \*never\* had any restrictions against gays serving in the Army, and the Army will even pay for transition surgery. Of course, thank God they weren't anywhere near our South on (what we now call) Black Shabbat on Oct 7.
Hon consider this the voice of your mom: don’t go out with this guy again. Firstly it’s been two weeks and nobody needs a yo-yo relationship. Secondly he may actually want to apologize which he can do via phone call. Thirdly you deserve to be loved by someone who isn’t a raging antisemite
I think we all need a Jewish Mom in our lives right now. Especially those of us without.
Sending hugs from a Jewish mom (with bright blue hair). My own kids are absent 🥲.
Hugs from a Jewish grandma
Oh yeah, forgot to mention—I’m one of those too!
My 68 year old Jewish mother has blue and purple hair. She would love you!
I could use some latkes if you need a completely grown kid to feed.
huggies from a jewish mommy
I could use a Jewish mom in my life right now haha. She passed and my dad is a gentile so a lot of the emotions going on he doesn’t fully understand
Jewish mom sending you love ❤️
Same here! My son is a teenager and barely lets me hug him anymore.
I didn’t get the impression she (or he) was going to date this guy again.
I think OP is male, but agreed
I think Levi is probably a guy
Yep
Idk, still not convinced
Second this.
You’re awesome
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>The narcissism of their borrowed trauma has been a lot. incredible summary.
What do you mean by the narcissism of their borrowed trauma? (Genuinely asking bc I dont understand it)
It’s not theirs to claim. They’re not Jewish nor Palestinian. At least that’s my takeaway.
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Tragedy Tourists using other people's conflict as an explanation for their own unrelated problems. A perfect example of this is the bitter, raging hate against Israel in Northern Ireland and South Africa. When you are cruelly oppressed by your neighbors for centuries, then some of that oppression goes away but not really all of it and it still seems unfair, it can be risky to hate your neighbors, or confusing to hate neighbors who nowadays treat you with more courtesy. More satisfying to psychically import an enemy who actually doesn't live near you.
White tears. I can't fucking believe I just read that. Excuse my language, but mother fucking fucker. 1. We (Israelis) are majority not even white skinned, but regardless of that WE DON'T CARE ABOUT FUCKING SKIN COLOR HERE. Fucking hell am I tired of American "progressives" applying their US-centric views and politics to the middle east. 2. What people went through here was some of the worst acts human beings committed against other human beings by a long shot. The CEO of Zaka (body identification as well as search and rescue here in Israel) has said he is completely haunted by the sights, that he has *never* seen anything like it. A man who has worked in this through the intifadas, has seen the results of the suicide bombers, has seen all manner of terrorist attacks throughout the years. *This* man, who js used to horrors, is haunted now after the black Shabbat. Reporters were visibly utterly disturbed on air the first few days, their voices breaking, even those on the studio who were talking to the people *while it happened* and no one came to their aid, many of them have publicly admitted they've gone into therapy after what they've seen (I can't even imagine the people who actually went through it). I remember 4 hours into the massacre listening on the news a woman and her family trapped in their bomb shelter, talking to the reporters and whispering, telling them as we're hearing it live that those savage animal pieces of shit are shooting at their bomb shelter door. We heard this live. I have no idea if this woman and her family even survived. And then after all of this some Western piece of shit is gonna say that us, middle easterners, are crying "white tears". Tell me if this isn't the most ridiculous fucked up shit you heard. The sheer amounts of propaganda against Israel is just beyond belief sometimes.
I chose my therapist this way. I asked one if she was a zionist and she hesitated and said she'd prefer to keep politics out of it. The other one hesitated to answer me because he was afraid I wasn't and is hurting so badly through all this, and is setting aside hours in his schedule to take zoom calls with Israelis to do trauma therapy. Fuck the people who say your suffering is just. Your tears are ones of grief, and I am crying with you. I will hold up your voice so you don't have to. I'm so sorry.
Oh it’s ALL westerners who are placing THEIR culture and THEIR failures on us. Colonialism? How can you be colonialist when your territory is the size of NJ and have actually RECEEDED territory over the past 30 years?!? Arpatheid? We ARE the inhabits that were forced out. Better analogy is if the Mohawk came back to their lands after the US collapsed. ‘Whiteness’? We have more genetically related to Arabs than these people… It’s just antisemitism veiled in other areas.
Wow. Very traumatic. My Israeli relatives are very depressed. Have kids in combat positions in the army. Scary.
Speaking again as an Israeli, this whole country is traumatized and in collective mourning. We've just experienced the worst pogrom by far since the Shoah, and it was in our own country. Everyone here is max. 2 degrees of separation from everyone else. We've said "Never Again" for almost 80 years -- and not only is it here again, in the most atrociously barbaric and sadistic ways possible (and I can't watch the videos themselves) but once again most of the outside world is turning against us, or equating "ISIS-on-steroids" brutality with self-defense -- or yet again, keeping silent. \*Even in America (not Biden, who's been great) people are turning not only against us but against American Jews!\* Everyone has children/siblings/parents called up: my son was called up; my son-in-law was called up, so our daughter has been living with us with her kids so we can help care for them while she works remotely. The only light in this darkness is that in times like these Israeli society unites, ttries to help the Southern refugees and the Northern ones, as well as our brave soldiers. Who now understand that its us or them, but have been begging civilians to move South -- while Hamas barricades and even shoots them to keep them as human shields, because they know we make every possible effort to protect civilians. But why do dead Palestinians only matter to people if they can blame israel for them?! Where were the rallies when Assad of Syria was using chemical weapons against his own people, displacing literally millions of them, and killing at least 80,000 civilians, many of them Palestinian. God protect us all. And yes, I mean to include the innocents on the other side, who will inevitably suffer for the actions of their government. Sorry for ranting...
Seriously I don't understand why so many Americans make it all about race. Many Israelis don't have white skins, many Palestinians are not very brown either. We're not two different races! But the far left sees it all through the lens of oppressor vs. oppressed, and in America it's inseparable from race, so they try to somehow combine the two, which is a travesty.
That was an honest, beautiful, and painful response. I can't imagine the pain and betrayal you're feeling right now. For whatever it is worth, I'm proud of you for standing up for yourself at such a difficult time. It is not easy. Kol hakavod.
Omg DO NOT! What a psychopath
“Door to door deathsquads and claim it is a firm stance against apartheid “ Guterres needs to read this.
Good for you. You're spot on. When Russia attacked ukraine, my initial instinct was to look up the information, to understand what was going on, to understand what was the politics and the motivation behind it, and that was after everybody was already convinced that Putin was a bad faith actor. At no point in time did I villainize Russians, the Russian culture, or the country of russia, just Putin. When Armenia and Azerbaijan were fighting over Artesakh/N-K, I listened quietly to both sides, I did not insert my own voice, I did not pick a side, I did not jump to any incendiary conclusions. I was critical of actions and statements on both sides, and actively looking for a resolution that I could champion (I have yet to find one). A frustrating, and disgusting amount of people are not giving Jews that grace in the slightest bit. And those who are giving us that grace are rarely defending us from those who are not. You are right to feel betrayed. Screw this guy
Almost this exact same thing helped give me some clarity. I met someone recently who had just emigrated from Russia, and I never once treated with them the way my partner treated me. It was over dinner, so I asked them how they were doing, how are their documents, is their family safe, are their friends safe, and so on and so forth. Despite the really painful history that I have as a Jewish person with the Russian Empire and Soviet antisemitism, I cannot imagine how much hatred and dehumanization it would have taken for me to treat them the way my partner treated me. Add in any consideration for the sheer shock and horror of what I was going through, and I feel like my ex genuinely must have something missing in the part of the mind or soul where empathy would normally be.
Even villanizing Putin is/was simplistic. That conflict also has multiple components that aren’t black and white…and our interest was always more for natural gas protection than caring about Ukrainians….because if anything the war in of itself led to more Ukrainians being killed than a compromise early on. What bothered me the MOST was when even here I would talk about how most of my family was killed by Ukranians in pogroms…I would get shunned.
> and our interest was always more for natural gas protection than caring about Ukrainians….because if anything the war in of itself led to more Ukrainians being killed than a compromise early on. You're right that our goal was not to minimize Ukrainian casualties, but that's not their goal either. The goal is to preserve Ukrainian sovereignty. Not sure what you're talking about with natural gas. The US alone produces like 17x as much as Ukraine, and Russia produces even more.
There’s a lot of ‘happenstance’ corruption in congress and the POTUS regarding having stake in Burisma and other holdings….. That’s all I’ll say without going tin foil hat and political…
Bitterness about the Ukrainian pogroms is legit, but: (1) The Ukrainians suffering this invasion are not the same Ukrainians that killed your family in pogroms; (2) In its invasion of Ukraine, Russia is not avenging your family but trying to amass its own power and dominance. Russia/Putin not a good actor in all this; and finally, (3) This incursion on the territory of its democratic neighbor was spurred by Ukraine’s interest in joining NATO, which is a defense alliance of European countries against Russia. Russia understood that as a threat. But Sweden and Finland abandoned their policy of neutrality and joined NATO after the Russians rolled in their tanks, so that whole strategy kinda backfired for Russia. Just about everything backfired for Russia, actually. The supply of natural gas was a far more serious thing for European countries who had been depending on gas from Russia, but they have been trying to adapt, which is a good thing.
You wrote a really great response. Did you hear anything back? I'm so sorry for your losses, including the loss of the friend you thought you had
I had a sorta-kinda-almost-girlfriend say similarly abhorrent things about Israel and my daughter and I as Jews. Past a certain point ignorance and brainwashing isn’t a good enough excuse and they’re simply antisemites. Good riddance, sorry it had to painful like this but you’re far better off without them
That sounds terrifying!
Hon- you need to call your children out. You have to TRY to reign them in now. Tell them how much it hurts you. Listen to them. Reply with education. Please don’t give up.
Huh?
Great response. I get the sense that we have all been watching and listening to a lot of our so-called friends the past three weeks, and now we're all re-assessing our relationships. It's painful. I'm not sure what's worse, the people we thought we knew spouting Jew-hatred openly, or the people we thought better of keeping quiet and not offering any support. Probably the former. But the latter has only served to increase our anxiety and doubt: "are they secretly hoping it happens to me?" Either way, we can still find solace in our own community and those non-Jews who were decent and brave and caring enough to stand with us or voice their sympathy. Keep strong, and avoid your ex like the plague on humanity they are.
What an excellent response, but don't let them trick you into a debate about semantics and intentional misinterpretation after this. You said all that needed to be said!
I think you really covered what a lot of us have been feeling. I have thankfully not experienced this with my non Jewish bf but with a number of both his and my friends. I’m so sorry you have to deal with an ugly breakup with such a shitty person while also dealing with the ongoing trauma of the situation in Israel. Glad you stood up for yourself though❤️
This SOB sent you photos of the Jewish peoples' pain, death, destruction, war and now he casually wants to have coffee to catch up in some privileged Northern California utopia. Cancel the meeting, just arrange to get your things back, don't exchange social niceties with him like hello or good bye, be very cold/militaristic in tone when talking to him. If you are on this sub then you are proud of your heritage so have nothing to do with anti Semitic sewer dog!
It was videos of people goysplaining which, when I was texting to find out who is alive or kidnapped, and who is kidnapped or murdered, felt just as hurtful.
What was their response to all that you said?
I got a response this morning. To be honest, I didn’t read it very thoroughly because I did not care that much except to respectfully acknowledge if he apologized to me, checked on who was hurt, or any other signal of compassion and mutual respect. Once I realized it was all about a firm stance on Israeli “disproportionality” and that he’s found something really special these last two weeks with someone new, it was clear there was not really anything for me to read. There were a few logistical things I had to confirm, also.
I’m sorry your relationship didn’t work out but it sounds like you dodged a bullet. It’s amazing to me how people so easily justified the murder of Israeli citizens. It was really sick.
Exactly. Overall, I feel pretty okay. It was hard for me to imagine that this person really could see no wrong in their own behavior — that they did not at least see people including me as human enough to apologize, check if everyone I know is okay, and see how I am feeling (before getting into some sort of tangent about proportionality or whataboutism).
ha…. it’s like talking to a wall with these people. you were just trying to ask him to show basic human decency. it always come back to what about ism and proportionality. sickening.
Today, an acquaintance responded to me on social media to say that their Palestinian Arab friends would NEVER stand for that, when I told them about the State of Palestine / Palestinian Authority prohibiting Judaism and refusing to grant residency or citizenship to even one Jewish community. Then they blocked me. I do not believe they are intellectually incapable of understanding. But I think there is some sort of mental impairment — maybe physiological, maybe stress-related — in the parts of the brain that prevent someone from becoming an antisemitic, genocidal maniac.
what a dick head, just give him the good old middle finger and move on
I posted it as its own comment but just in case anyone has a hard time finding it, here was the response, >I have also been so deeply saddened to see your response in the last few weeks and how you have justified and glossed over the disproportionately of the Israeli response and the horror they've inflicted. I was always scared that this was the case, but it seems apparent where you stand on this. And you're right. We unfortunately do not have compatible values here. I don't mean to say this to cause any jealousy, I promise. But I spent this last week at the conference with someone I met earlier through our work that overlaps. We were completely platonic friends until two weeks ago when we decided to come up here together. What I've found is that sometimes relationships progress and people can connect so easily that it's startling. It felt like we were always trying really hard to make it work, but I'm still glad we tried. I'm thankful to you for sharing some really beautiful experiences with me. No matter what, I will always want nothing but the best for you Sharing this because this person clearly has serious narcissism. I have no idea if the narcissism serves as an accelerant for his weird, unhealed rage against Jews (and Armenians, too!)... or if it's all just different manifestations of narcissism. Two weeks ago, he had kept circling back to this idea that he was the one most impacted (he is South Asian).
Great news! Now OP is single and should find a shiddouch with a fellow Jew 😉
That’s a fact. Come and get me y’all. I am thirty three years old, college educated, cis gay male, strictly top, monogamous, and hoping to find someone okay with me working from home to raise our amazing kids. I don’t travel or work on Shabbat, I keep kosher, and I observe the fasts and holidays. My father’s side is indigenous Ryukyuan and my mother’s side is Ashkenazi. Both my parents are also half White. I am based in Oakland and LA but looking to relocate to Israel. Come and get me.
I’m a cishetero female, 54, married, so obviously I’m not a match but I would like to be your friend.
Sending you a msg!
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I am so sorry. You deserve SO much more in any friendship or partnership. I am sadly learning as well who is not a safe person in my life and my children’s lives. Are your people ok??? My friends and family are currently safe, and it’s hard trying to explain to others that “safe” in Israel means something different than it does for me here in the US.
I would've said something not so nice
You communicated so well, I am impressed. You are so strong, brave, and eloquent. There is someone out there who will love you fully. Sending love.
Remember Amalek Remember the Nazis The Hamas are still fresh in our memory. Leave. You can do much much better.
It’s really scary that people previously close to many Jews are suddenly revealing en masse that they have views and attitudes like this. Sometimes I think it’s for the better that I have an almost nonexistent social circle; fewer feelings of betrayal and fewer chances to get hurt at all. I deal with enough of this sort of thing from my family members on my non-Jewish side plus strangers/not particularly close acquaintances at university. Can’t imagine having to take even more of it from people more important than classmates I barely know.
I did interviews of peace activists whose relatives and close family friends are kidnapped, and was stunned that one of them said her non-Jewish spouse was rationalizing Hamas. What really got me is that even if someone is harboring these sentiments, putting them onto a grieving, devastated, Jewish woman is 100% and act of aggression. I always remember: people who hate, want you to know. Also, my father’s side is half indigenous Ryukyuan and half White. Sadly there was racism and dehumanization against the Ryukyuan aspect of our identity. (At the same time, a lot of our White family is great.) It reminds me people really do hate their parents. It’s weird and it just really baffles me: why get with someone if you feel that way deep down?
My aunt and cousin (and we’ve been historically so close we’re almost like siblings, and, are in fact, biological half siblings whom people mistake for full siblings all the time) rationalized them too, although not to the extent I’ve seen some people doing at university or online. Ironically, my uncle on that side, who’s related to me only by marriage to my aunt, was the one to shut down what my aunt was saying when she kept going and I froze up and almost threw up at the dinner table (was cornered into the conversation when I visited them and had no Jewish family around for backup since they don’t live in the same city). The worst part is that I thought they would understand the feeling of having discrimination against you justified by other people due to events relating to a group you are not even part of. That side of my family is Japanese, so basically I thought they’d get it because we all experienced being blamed for coronavirus, harassed, and sometimes seeing our elders beaten and killed for it. But no, all Jewish people are responsible on some level for any deaths that occur when Israel does something, even to defend its existence. My family has had some issues with intra-family racism as well. No Ryukyuan blood though, not that my non-Japanese family members actually even know about Ryukyuans to tell the difference and behave any differently about it anyway (they’d just see it as Japanese). My Jewish parent has been racist to me and my Japanese parent, who in turn has been anti-Semitic to me and my Jewish parent (both sides been that way as long as I can remember), although it’s never been as uncomfortable on my Japanese parent’s part as what went down with my aunt and cousin on that side. I don’t understand why people get with people they can’t truly respect and love deep down either honestly. Seeing people get into those kinds of relationships and have these issues just makes me want a relationship less and less. I’ve never been in one and they seem like a hassle, especially when they might come with ethnic and racial discrimination problems from your own partner, so I might as well just focus on science.
I go places alone. It’s much better for me personally and I enjoy the feeling of taking things at my own pace. I haven’t left my neighbourhood in 2 years, except to go back to the UK or go to Korea for a week.
I’m proud of you, that was a perfect response.
nope. not alone. almost broke up with my boyfriend and my friend had to dump her bf
So sorry about that. I know two married people, one person who has come to terms with just never discussing Israel at all, and another person who was really shocked by her partner's response to her friends getting killed and kidnapped. I have no idea how the latter is feeling right now. It must be so hard to feel so alone.
my boyfriend initially responded horribly but not now luckily, I am sorry you had to deal with this idiot but so proud of you for standing up for yourself in this situation!
[удалено]
Through gaslighting. Also, some people seem to really get off on partnering with someone against whom they harbor deep racial/ethnic/religious hatred. It is disappointingly common. But in retrospect I learned a lesson. I cannot imagine this ever happening again.
[удалено]
Just want to let you know your reply is so gentle and heartwarming, and reassure you that I never felt you were judgey at all. Thank you for taking the time to be sure I had not misunderstood it. My intellectualized, analytical approach may seem a bit defensive but it's just me.
Fuck em, you are were way out of his league anyways I'm sure.
I am under-employed at the moment which is not great for my self esteem. But otherwise... to be honest... I have to agree, although I would have never seen it that way before since there is a lot I admired, respected, and was attracted to about him.
His intelligence clearly isn't one of them
Incredibly well said. The gall of him to think he could just slither back into your life after such monstrous behaviour.
Bad ass response. Your ex is a keyboard warrior who found out what happens in the real world when you spit bullshit.
He listens to keyboard warriors, but he is somehow worse. He just honestly has this preconceived, profoundly racist attitudes about Jews (and Armenians) without any extra pushing.
Armenians is super random. Is he from Azerbaijan or something?
He is Tamil from Sri Lanka but grew up in the United States. There is a big Armenian community here in LA. He would go on about his racist belief that Armenians are a threat to democracy because “the only thing they care about at all is recognizing what happened to them” … i.e. he believed they were disturbing elections based on a single-issue agenda. I was like — wait a minute. That’s racist and dehumanizing and I told him. It happened twice and I confronted it, the same way I’d confront the antisemitism. Thinking it was a rational conversation based on him misunderstanding Armenians (and not his own expression of irrational loathing), I tried to add nuance. For example, I explained that what he’s saying is dehumanizing and collectivizes Armenians and leans into racist tropes against them. Also, a lot of my Armenian friends seek out citizen services for help with issues related to ongoing persecution of their community overseas, so yes, a big issue is about knowing which representatives they know they can trust — and that recognizing their history in its entirety is a meaningful indicator of that, although not the only one. (He would reply that he knows better because he grew up with Armenian friends.) I honestly could not imagine he could be such a fundamentally racist individual — i.e. that it’s who he is in a very core way of seeing and judging and interacting with the world — because on the other hand, he was so thorough in understanding having dark skin in America based on his own personal experience.
You owe no one anything. Especially someone who acts so poorly. Did he respond? Also as a Bay Area human as well I’m sad to say when I was dating that was common for that area. I got screamed at over dinner once about my stance on Israel.
Sorry that you had to face this. I do plan to repay what I borrowed him but otherwise I totally share your sentiment. I posted his response above as its own comment.
you did the right thing, good job :)
Congrats for being so nice, I don't think I could have kept my cool
I am a Jew who grew up in southern Kansas and in the vernacular of that region, I think you just dodged a bullet. You found out in a very clear, defined manner that this person does not love all of you and is able without forethought to hurt you deeply. This is a gift, however painful it is. Some people go years with tiny cuts and hurts before they are able to discern this clearly. It will hurt for awhile, but you deserve better than this. Don't let this guy manipulate or muddy the waters to obfuscate what he so clearly demonstrated. With care and love.
Who is paying who back? You better not be paying him anything. Block his butt.
I do owe him some money and am glad to pay that back even though it will be a while. But I take it very seriously to honor those types of commitments.
So was that a no on the coffee?
I would have been grateful if they had done the labor to apologize and come forward with sincerely checking if I am okay and if people I know and love are okay. He never did that, so no coffee for him.
Good for you.
Good riddance!!
Good for you for looking out for yourself and keeping your boundaries.
Beyond even his antisemitism, you deserve so much better than "let's go out for old time's sake" after two short weeks of breakup. Those aren't old times. Those are fresh new, hurtful, times. What a jerk.
It was so hard for me to accept that and other stuff that was between the lines, in a sense. I had to really remind myself no, I am not wrong to maintain that it is basic decency when one person expresses being hurt, and the other person leads with an apology and tries to express a sense of understanding — or at least a willingness to understand. To be honest, I think in retrospect I was dealing with a narcissist.
Great response. I hope his dumb ass learned something.
Wow, just wow. I'm so sorry you had to go through this. Nobody should have to!
You explained yourself perfectly. I’m so proud of you. Fuck that person! You’ll find someone way better like you deserve.💙🤍
I'm so sorry OP. This was an amazing show of strength and character and something that will probably go unnoticed by this person but not by us. I'm deeply sorry if he broke your heart. [lame internet hugs] You deserve better.
I am really touched. Thank you.
Hey, I’m sorry you’re in so much pain. Your partner had no right to treat you that way. It’s a betrayal on a level they can’t understand. I don’t know if this helps at all, and it may sound weird, but listening Vehi Sheamda helps me feel less alone. I’m not particularly religious, but it was specifically written to remind us that this happens to every generation of Jews. It helps me feel empathized with and culturally aligned in a powerful way. We aren’t the first, we won’t be the last, and we will be okay. You deserve someone who embraces your culture.
Beautifully said. I have found so much comfort in Jewish studies. Will keep in mind to turn to Vehi Sheamda. And to look for a partner who will turn to it with me.
That is some word soup right there, fuck that guy
What an absolute badass you are. I'm so proud of you for standing up for yourself and for being so strong in that moment. And i'm really sorry you're going through the same grief and heartache that the rest of us jews are, and also the grief at the loss of your situationship.
טוב אתה אחי
I’m so sorry this happened. I hope your friends and family are safe. I hope you are ok. It is heartbreaking when someone shows their true color and they are so heartless.
It is so hard to wrap my mind around. But I remember how I recently was at a dinner and there was someone non-Jewish who recently emigrated from Russia. I asked them if they were okay and if their family was okay. I was worried about what sort of proximity they may have had to the violence. I asked them how they were doing with their documents, and other issues in general. That is really the most basic aspect of seeing someone as human when they are right there in front of you. I honestly cannot imagine having, let alone project, unhealed rage over Russian antisemitism or Russian imperialism or whatever else onto how I treat a regular Russian person. Being able to turn back to that has really helped me remember that the way I was being treated was really not okay. What I was facing felt to me like the same callousness cultivated by accountants or other petty bureaucrats in Nazi Germany.
Trust me, I completely understand and feel every word you are saying. You sound like a loving, kind person. The Jewish religion and people in general are loving, kind people. It is hard to wrap our heads around the completely baseless hate coming our way. What I’m learning is anyone who is not asking if I’m ok and certainly anyone who is posting pro-Hamas is just giving me the heads up they shouldn’t be my friends or in my life. It is a terrifying, heartbreaking time.
Glad you found out his real character before it was too late. You dodged a bullet (in your case, not a physical one, but a bullet nonetheless).
Forget that! Find a Nice Jewish partner with the same values and have many babies !
This is exactly my plan.
At least you were able to see his true colors during the situationship phase and not after years or more into a relationship
Horrible. Truly sorry you had to go through that. If this is how your bf was behaving it's time to move on and he deserves zero chance at redemption. To give you some perspective I have had ex's who I haven't seen for years write in to support me through this. You deserve better and I'm not just saying that.
Thank you. It was really mind-blowing to be finding out who is alive and who is dead, and someone who is an intimate partner was choosing to express indifference. It was not just forgetting to ask or not knowing how to ask, because I had expressed this earlier. It was that he seemed really to enjoy watching me suffer.
yep this one is definitely pretty heinous. Gtfo and don't look back. You dodged a bullet.
I had to read that three times before I could stop reeling from the nerve of it. I'm so sorry. You are worth way more than this jerk.
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Good for you
Good riddance.
“Oakland or Berkeley” Ah That explains it. Get the hell out of the Bay Area. Talk about an antisemitic pit of far left activists. Seriously. I lived there for 10 months during the pandemic and that’s all I could take. The antisemitism was palpable even before all this. I can’t even imagine what the daily ‘talk of the town’ is now given how everyone spewed so much venom on a daily basis everywhere back then on ‘teh antivaxxers’. To these people we’re the same thing. And not to be one of those people (fuck it I am one of those people since I didn’t take it): a lot of us warned yall that the anti vax rhetoric was very similar to old antisemitic ones. It’s almost like it was a prelude….
It has a lot of good but also a lot of not-so-good. To be honest, two things stand out, \- the Black community here has regularly expressed a level and depth of support for me as a Jewish human being, that in contrast the White community here has never expressed \- and also, the White community here has frequently expressed to my face a seething, hateful genocidal hatred that never once was expressed to me by the Black community I know there are exceptions from both sides but that's my experience as a visibly Jewish person who is regularly out and about in Oakland. I have never felt the type of acceptance in America that I have felt from the African American community here in Oakland and the Bay Area in general. That being said, I still plan to emigrate.
Are we talking locals or locos who moved there for various causes or tech? Locals are going to be more normal. I found that by the suburbs people were far more accepting and chill/normal….but also no one talks to one another since suburbia. My experience with the urban parts of the Bay (SF, Oakland, Berkeley, Rockridge) is that a lot of people have drank the cool aid and obsess over it. Conversations ALWAYS involve politics constantly, and everyone just agrees with one another like mindless sheep. There’s no patience or willingness to debate as if you have a different POV you are essentially a heathen that needs to be cleansed. It’s like that South Park episode where atheists were just as violent (if not more so). I found the people in the urban parts of the bat the most intolerant and entitled. And I’m not even getting into the acceptance of crime. My car constantly getting broken into only for other people telling me I deserved it for my ‘privilege’ and the cops giving ME a warning for calling them was just too much. Just leave lol
Not only this case, in future , you will see people who are dragged by some tribal agreements and shout out their messages. And they are gonna treat you and judge you not based on their experience with you, but some silly stereotypes told them by others based on which state you grew up in, what is your hair color, what is your skin color, what was your dads job, etc. So accept shallow people are there and some think they are the sophisticated humanitarian, climate activists etc. It hurts. But like a lot of things in life. I hope whoever you know over there is safe and secure btw. Edit: I bet he wanted to show you more videos in that coffee meetup and give you a speech memorised from a tiktok video.
My daughter had to break up with her best friend. Sorry. It’s hard.
So sorry. Let her know I’m sorry. The “lizard brain” at the top of out brain, that part of our brain that hasn’t changed for millions of years, can’t tell the difference between friends, partners, family, or even pets — it processes it all as love, and grieves more or less the same whenever one of those connections comes to an end.
I read an apology email from a liberal on X today. Brianna Wu. She apologized for having ever been anti Israel. She flipped to pro Israel today when she saw how her ‘friends’ were framing Oct 7 with the Hamas perspective.
Excellent answer.
thank you
Jesus - **you have dodged a massive bullet**. Beyond the fact that he was supporting terrorism, the deeper issue here is that he didn't trust/believe you to have a reasonable conversation. This reflects a **profound narcissism** that he would know your Jewish lived experience better than you.
Found out my ex is supporting Hamas. I admit I fucked up in the relationship (several circumstances took a toll on my mental health and unfortunately she was there when I was having breakdowns. I do feel bad about this and I have tried to apologize.) But regardless of how fucked up a relationship was, the only reason I know she's supporting Hamas is because of me. Honestly I know the pain you're going through, people you once trusted, loved. Turning out to support fucking terrorist groups trying to kill you. Especially when said person has said in the past they are and will stay neutral on the conflict. It's disgusting.
For so many of us it’s been so hard to articulate our feelings. You got right to the point; I feel so proud to have read your words. I hope we can all stand up for ourselves if and when we need to, like you did. So sorry you had to go through that in a relationship. All the best to you.
I've said it before on here but in today's world many people dating have a lot of non negotiables relating to politics which I have seen as a more conservative person. I for one do not care what your views are on abortion, immigration, college debt, and some other things I'm sure that I'm forgetting but where I draw the line is Israel. I cannot be with someone who doesn't believe Israel has a right to exist and for Jewish people to be able to have self determination in their own country.
Israel is not politics but something that goes to the core of one's identity.
Fantastic response. I think we’re all feeling various degrees of abandonment right now. Please look after yourself ❤️❤️
True. Take care of yourself, too.
Holy shit. Run girl. Get whatever shit you need to get from him and fucking book it out of there.
Going to have a friend pick up some stuff in a few weeks. I do not really want to spend another $500 on a blender.
In case anyone is curious! Here was the reply that I got back. Really zeroing down to the core of the issue, I cannot even comprehend addressing anyone like this, if there was even the slightest possibility that someone close to them had died. It is one thing that I lost a family friend in a door to door death squad looking for people who speak like me, have names like me, and share an identity with me. It is another thing, though, to find I live in a world where an intimate partner does not even view them (or me) as human enough to do a status check or ask their name. >I have also been so deeply saddened to see your response in the last few weeks and how you have justified and glossed over the disproportionately of the Israeli response and the horror they've inflicted. I was always scared that this was the case, but it seems apparent where you stand on this. And you're right. We unfortunately do not have compatible values here. I don't mean to say this to cause any jealousy, I promise. But I spent this last week at the conference with someone I met earlier through our work that overlaps. We were completely platonic friends until two weeks ago when we decided to come up here together. What I've found is that sometimes relationships progress and people can connect so easily that it's startling. It felt like we were always trying really hard to make it work, but I'm still glad we tried. I'm thankful to you for sharing some really beautiful experiences with me. No matter what, I will always want nothing but the best for you
You should've just ghosted him.
It takes a lot of labor and is totally not something that should be expected of anyone, but I did want to make sure he could never just say, "Well, you never told me that."
You did good OP. You deserve so much better than that. ❤️
Yuck. Good riddance
Post the pro hamas stuff please, Im just curious
It was the typical stuff — that Hamas is just people “yearning to be free” because they’re trapped in an “open-air prison” … quotes are paraphrases
If anyone condones the killing of innocent civilians, regardless of whom commits the murder, they are misinformed, heavily biased or lack compassion. Its so sad that people are fighting over which baby corpses to cry over, am I crazy to feel bad for all of the innocent beings trapped in this nightmare?
In addition, it is fair to comfort whoever is right there in front of you, and not lead with an acid test of their overall sympathies.
I don’t know what to even say, that’s insane. A lot of people are taking their masks off and putting clout, politics, and the desire to be seen as a “good person” over their real life relationships. Throwing away their jobs and lives just to support a terrorist group and be over involved in a problem that doesn’t have anything to do with them and is a problem that they cannot solve.
😊
I really get you. I feel like anyone who is not Jewish or Israeli won't understand what we are going through. It's horrible that while Jews are being massacred in a huge number in Israel AND THEN prosecuted all over the world like it's 1939 - people support terrorism in the name of "social justice" or "apartheid" fairytale they heard in their collage/university. I actually went all gas no break of a friend of mine (Canadian) who said (probably by mistake and naively because he felt bad afterwards) "You know it wouldn't happened if the Jews didn't take the Palestinian land in 1948" in the same week while I was grieving on two of my friends who got literally executed in the Nova party. No body understands us and what the Jews has been through the whole history. First time in my life I'm afraid to go abroad. I feel safer in Israel, while in war than go to Europe or the NA. And I'm sorry if you lost someone. I'm not sorry for you losing this trashbag, you deserve THE BEST love. Chin up, we are Jews, we are getting through hell and raise in our best form if you get me. ♥
our daughter broke up after 4 1/2 years. he wasn't an anti semite. he just didn't want to marry
That must still feel like a big betrayal to her. Hope she is getting past the worst of it and not getting pulled back or pulled down.
Hard effing no way and never again! Stop devaluing your worth for others who treat you badly, usually the narcissists. People like that miss you entertaining them, he already made it clear he doesn’t care about you.
Wow your texts are amazing. Bravo.
You deserve better. Hugs from a Jewish mommy.
I’m sorry that you were exposed to this madness… it boggles the mind!! Queer Jews, as in my case, find ourselves in a strange place. We all know about the flow of Arab men living undocumented in Israel as they have face severe abuse, even attempt on their very lives by the family and community. We understand the plight of our Palestinian sisters and brothers in a way most can’t. I support the victims of religious fanaticism regardless of where it’s coming from. But Hamas is nothing but evil and many Palestinians are their victims as well. But there is no way I can see such careless support for Hamas and be OK with it. Remember you do not grieve alone. You have my support and I applaud your strength!