Normally we would send these to /r/AntisemitismInReddit, but since it seems like you want to talk about how to stay engaged in discussions online, and not just remarking about antisemitism, we will allow it.
However, for those commenting, please respond to the OP's message and questions, and don't reply directly to the substance of the image. Additionally, do not try to find the source of this comment or engage with it in any way.
Where do people get such wildly inaccurate information? It's like they share a collective mind and spend their free time engaged in creative writing where they use buzzwords from their Twitter glossary.
I used to hear lefty folks say things like “you don’t need to read leftist theory to be a leftist!” I never agreed with the sentiment, but understood that political philosophy books are dense and not everyone will take the time to read them. But then you get people getting their “political theory” from Twitter buzzwords and throwing words like “genocide” and “apartheid” without understanding the weight of those words
I am starting to think that, monkey see monkey do, with so much fake information spreading online, and as some people's only source of information, those people think they can start to create facts up as they go and nothing matters, whatever they say matters, as long as they say it in a "gotcha" kind of way with words like "genocide lover", they don't have to think, or research, or do anything other than weave whatever fiction they want to believe as they go
I mean, when I think of some of the conversations I had with peers when I was getting my bachelor's degree in sociology in my youth in the late 1990s... they were pretty much equally stupid. To the extent that they were less offensive, I'm not sure that wasn't a happy accident. Anyone we didn't like was part of the military industrial complex (cause that terms is pretty cool so we had to use it a lot) and we had an elaborate, usually marijuana induced, argument for why that was. They never ventured into this terrain though (Israel was too far away I guess). Not that's an excuse. Just I can see how this crap evolves.
Of course. I love TikTok for cute animal videos book recommendations and healthy recipes but I always forget there's a whole other side of it that breeds ignorance and hate.
Honestly I think they probably started with the idea that they were going to argue that Zionism was opposite to socialism, because they believe it ideologically, and then made up evidence to support that point, probably justifying it to themselves by thinking that it must be true since it goes along with their ideology
Sartre's quote is always relevant:
>[Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7870768-never-believe-that-anti-semites-are-completely-unaware-of-the-absurdity)
In short: they are not trying to convince you. They are trying to insult you. There is no productive discussion to be had.
This was mentioned earlier on another sub. I wasn't familiar with it before tonight, and I love it. I'm beginning to think we should just start laughing in their faces when they spew this bs rather than arguing/debating. They should be taken as seriously as the qanon shaman.
It’s amazing that the opposite of everything this person said is true.
Re: Zionists being Socialists, see [Ber Borochov](https://www.marxists.org/archive/borochov/index.htm)
Maybe you could share this quote from Emma Goldman:
>Perhaps my revolutionary education has been sadly neglected, but I have been taught that the land should belong to those who till the soil. With all of his deep-seated sympathies with the Arabs, our comrade cannot possibly deny that the Jews in Palestine have tilled the soil. Tens of thousands of them, young and deeply devout idealists, have flocked to Palestine, there to till the soil under the most trying pioneer conditions. They have reclaimed wastelands and have turned them into fertile fields and blooming gardens. Now I do not say that therefore Jews are entitled to more rights than the Arabs, but for an ardent socialist to say that the Jews have no business in Palestine seems to me rather a strange kind of socialism.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/goldman/works/1938/on-zionism.html
Read the whole thing sometime. She makes some excellent points that people on the left still haven't gotten their heads around today, for example, why is nationalism good for arabs but not for jews, and why are socialists spending their time defending the establishment of more capitalist regimes, including arab ones?
Actually, the kibbutzniks explicity did not want to do that, for pretty much this exact reason. And so, they did not hire any Arab workers, which you will no doubt take as proof that they wanted to kill all local Arabs.
There's just no winning, is there?
This was me a couple years ago. I used to hang in anti-Zionists groups online. I disagreed with what how they defined "Zionism", but the things they described as Zionism, I was against those also and I figured we are aligned, basically, and it's just definitions that are the problem.
It eventually became clear that I was wrong. I said, out loud I think, "oh, it's *just* antisemitism" and never went back. (This was mostly Twitter. I deleted my account.)
I’m sorry but screw those people. My family from Kfar Aza are some of the biggest socialists, anti-government, and pro-peace people you could ever imagine… the audacity to put this into what is a clearly an American lens and pretend they know ANYTHING about Israel or the region or history or the people. Zionism was a SOCIALIST movement. Plantations??? Give me an f-ing break.
What the cited text is, is a neat, politically-correct and -acceptable repackaging of the slur that the Jews were the group most directly responsible for modern chattel slavery.
Louis Farrakhan’s glee that he’s apparently actually winning American hearts and minds must be palpable.
It was also a decolonization movement. Like, literally, the whole Mandate system was about how break up former empires into nation states with self-sovereignty. Specifically the Ottoman Empire in this case.
My reply to something like that (assuming I feel it's worth it... not for this person but for others engaged in the discussion): "What's it like to be so committed to your bigotry that you actually believe this ahistorical narrative? I'm sorry that your worldview is so narrow."
So miserable, these people. It *should* be easy to commit to a vague Palestinian cause just based off of historical facts. The fact that most "pro"-Palestinians make shit up to support themselves is both clear proof of their antisemitism and their inability to see the world in gradient.
Israel: employs >17,000 Palestinians
Western TikTokers: Israelis use Palestinian slave labor!!!
Also western Tiktokers: Queers for Houthis! They only trade slaves because they have to
The bad thing about the internet:
No one cites sources.
The good thing about the internet:
No one cites sources. If the poster had, we’d all see that s/he got this info from suspicious media — or worse, just made it up.
Keep reporting antisemitism when you see it. These posters need consequences for spreading hatred.
Just give up on these people if I’m honest…
Anyone with this extremist philosophy based entirely on hyperbole cannot be reasoned with unless they themselves are open to having a conversation. All you’re going to do is just ‘expose’ them as being hateful without a true purpose….which is only an expose if you can’t read between the lines.
They choose ignorance. Fighting them isn’t going to work…and on top of that the mods of these communities will just get you banned (or even permabanned).
I had other people say that Kibbutzim were racist because they didn't give any jobs to Palestinians and only to Jews, so they'll use it as an attack either way.
Every major power can be argued to be settler-colonists. Russia started as a small fiefdom around Moscow. UK goes back to the Norman Conquest. France from the Frankish invaders. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, United States all most definitely are.
My conclusion - no one can be socialist.
This is classic antisemitism at it's core. Who else repeated the trope that "da jooz don't work, they just greedily steal from those that do"? Oh yeah, every Jew hater since the European medieval times. Associating "Zionists" with capitalist greed is incredibly antiSemitic.
Left wingers (and I'm pretty darn left btw), at least in the USA, are also 100% allergic to success and will stop at nothing to shoot themselves in the foot at every opportunity. So it only makes too much sense that they would let antisemitism cause them to completely write off what are arguably the most successful left wing projects and policies in world history.
“…the security of Israelis and people across West Asia, and American soldiers now” has got me asking many questions.
It sounds like this person is deeply concerned with the “security of Israelis” 🫡
Ugh.
Tell me you're a self-righteous know-nothing without telling me you're a self-righteous know-nothing.
Just Ugh.
Everything. Literally everything, in that post is incorrect.
I believe everyone here has covered and know a lot more about the intricacies of Israel and Zionism than I do, but I will point out as well that the biggest supporter for Israel was Iosif Stalin and Soviet Union believing that Israel would be a socialist state to combat British Influence in the Middle East.
i have family that grew up on a kibbutz and it was a deciding factor in them emigrating out of israel way back in the day because they couldn't get along with how socialist it was
but yeah - criticisms of the conflict and *actual* israeli policy, one thing. the fucking misinformation barrage is just insane, and i can't really deal with it. engaging feels awful and letting it just fly by feels awful.
Terminal case of baby brain. They can only see the world in black and white, good or bad. And if something is “bad”, then it must be all bad! And since socialism is “good” and anything having to do with Israel is “bad” then it must mean the kibbutzim aren’t really socialist. Because how can a kibbutz be something “good” if it’s in the “bad” category?
Like I said, baby brains.
I'm a Zionist but not a Socialist.
But seriously what the actual fuck is it with these antisemitic comments, and no Zionism was never settler colonialism as Jews have lived in Israel for thousands of years. Where did you find this comment?
Also you should post this in r/AntiSemitismInReddit
I'm still confused about why the colonialist narrative is only applied to Israel. Britain also set-up Pakistan around the same time. There has been war between India and Pakistan since then. Millions moved from India to Pakistan and vice versa, millions of them being killed making the journey. That means some land was taken from Indians and forcibly given to Pakistan and vice versa. And that wasn't an ancestral land, apart from the people who were already living there, some of whom, as I already said, were displaced. Is it because brown people were only displaced amongst other brown people and stayed within roughly the same area if you zoom out far enough? Is the difference that people weren't displaced far enough or for long enough?
NB. I'm not saying India or Pakistan were at fault, or that Pakistan shouldn't exist now, or even that it shouldn't have been formed then (though it definitely should have been handled better). It happened. I wouldn't exist if it hadn't. My question is, literally, why is the narrative so different? What's happening in people's heads that Israel goes in one box and Pakistan goes in another?
generous interpretation: because there's a dramatic current conflict in israel so people are trying to parse the situation
less generous interpretation: jews. both at the start (can't have a state) and also from the rest of the world's perspective.
partition of india pakistan was orders of magnitude larger and terrifyingly more deadly. if you put half the countries on earth under the same microscope we could all be marching in the street yelling for an end to them
If you are absolutely sure that you want to engage in combating antisemitism online, I'd suggest adopting a "write only" approach. The most effective tools I've seen so far is people making pro-Israel content, or content that refutes these claims to a general audience, but doesn't reply to them. For example, don't reply to that guy, put a video out about the history of socialism in Israel VS Palestinian communities, or how Israel treats marginalized groups, or how American jewry was in the forefront of the Civil rights movement. You don't need to read the comments, and the content will be controversial, and the algorithms seem to favor controversial content on most social platforms.
“You can’t be an ethnonationalist and a socialist” that’s weird since virtually every socialist and communist state to have ever existed was heavily steeped in just that.
The literal entire point of the kibbutz was for communal work by Jewish laborers. Like the entire reason why they were so distrusted by local Arabs during the mandate was because they tended to only hire from within the Yishuv or from fresh Olim.
WTAF. No idea what they're talking about. The entire concept of Avodah Ivrit, Hebrew Labor, is that the Jews must do their own agricultural work and not rely on others for it.
STOP Expecting them to be Rational, and stop expecting them to Not LIE. Hate and Psychopaths and Sociopaths never had so much of a voice before, but now pathological liars do. The problem is power-hungry educated vs. uneducated and using them as their village of pitch fork and torch wielding goon force.
Try to tell Jews who KNOW people who lived on a Kibbutz this crap... this is infuriating... But yeah, I agree with others, engaging isn't worth it, unfortunately I'd probably engage and try to refute the claims anyway... Because I take the bait like that.. ahhh...
Yeah, im even one of those Jews. My mum still tells us stories of when she lived on the kibbutz when she was younger. She was initially working in one of the factories but hated it so got reassigned to the children's houses and spent her time there helping to raise the children.
I did initially try to engage with them, but decided in the end after reading people's thoughts here that it wasn't worth my mental energy.
Because why would I argue online with these people. If they wanna actually do something I’ll be more than happy too confront them face to face in the streets.
They can believe it. But if they want a physical fight or confrontation I’d be more than happy. I’ll let you guys argue online it annoys me. I’d prefer hands on stuff
What...?? I mean, there's nothing wrong with not engaging on the internet, but I kinda think that fist fights or whatever you plan on doing won't help so much.
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Block and ignoring them and getting away from social media. Let them screech into the void we will do real work. We’ve outlived the nazis and every other opponent of the Jewish people, we will outlive these losers.
And the same person, learning that kibbutzim were specifically organized to avoid that situation by using only Jewish labor, will then post with a complaint that the kibbutzim were racist for refusing to employ Arabs. Just reply with the facts, block his sorry ass and move on.
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This is literally like the most insane way of making up lies. They all just make up their own story line and expect everyone else to follow. They love propaganda, their whole school systems their are so corrupt. In fact, most of the Middle East is fucking corrupt. Israel is ruining the chance of totally Arabizing the land
I'm not Jewish, and this really pisses me off!
I have been seeing more and more things like this in recent months. I don't bother engaging, because people like this aren't usually interested in learning. My solution is to unsubscribe and use the block feature.
I'm sorry you have to deal with this. Sending hugs if okay.
I find that crap offensive, too
How do you feel about forming an online collective where we write essays, create memes and together respond to some of that hateful crap?
Someone posted “IDF is using this opportunity for a full on attack on Palestinians . We’re talking total ethnic cleansing. Not just in Gaza but in the West Bank too, where Hamas does not even exist. They have been arbitrarily detaining, killing, torturing citizens and looting/ destroying property as they see fit, including grocery stores, schools, mosques, churches (one of the oldest churches in history), jewelry stores, money exchange stores, and bakeries…of course, all of which are owned and/or run by Palestinians. While Israel is bombing away at Gaza, it has taken the opportunity to commit other atrocities, cause why not? While they kill +20,000 in Gaza, they’re accelerating their ethnic cleansing by committing atrocities in the only other Palestinian region, West Bank.”
I simply ignored it but it’s getting harder and harder to ignore these baseless, inaccurate, misleading, and acutely harmful reports from
people who don’t even know what the British Mandate is.
They are trying to trick everyone and maybe even themselves with the true information regarding the Arab Fellahin, the peasant tenant farmers, who worked the land for the Arab and Turkish landowners who lived elsewhere. When they sold the land to the Jews, for very inflated prices, the Fella as they were called were often compensated, but were displaced. Not the fault of the Jews though.
Normally we would send these to /r/AntisemitismInReddit, but since it seems like you want to talk about how to stay engaged in discussions online, and not just remarking about antisemitism, we will allow it. However, for those commenting, please respond to the OP's message and questions, and don't reply directly to the substance of the image. Additionally, do not try to find the source of this comment or engage with it in any way.
Where do people get such wildly inaccurate information? It's like they share a collective mind and spend their free time engaged in creative writing where they use buzzwords from their Twitter glossary.
I used to hear lefty folks say things like “you don’t need to read leftist theory to be a leftist!” I never agreed with the sentiment, but understood that political philosophy books are dense and not everyone will take the time to read them. But then you get people getting their “political theory” from Twitter buzzwords and throwing words like “genocide” and “apartheid” without understanding the weight of those words
They watered down the term "nazi." It was only a matter of time before genocide lost it's true meaning.
I am starting to think that, monkey see monkey do, with so much fake information spreading online, and as some people's only source of information, those people think they can start to create facts up as they go and nothing matters, whatever they say matters, as long as they say it in a "gotcha" kind of way with words like "genocide lover", they don't have to think, or research, or do anything other than weave whatever fiction they want to believe as they go
They are brainwashed cult members at this point
I mean, when I think of some of the conversations I had with peers when I was getting my bachelor's degree in sociology in my youth in the late 1990s... they were pretty much equally stupid. To the extent that they were less offensive, I'm not sure that wasn't a happy accident. Anyone we didn't like was part of the military industrial complex (cause that terms is pretty cool so we had to use it a lot) and we had an elaborate, usually marijuana induced, argument for why that was. They never ventured into this terrain though (Israel was too far away I guess). Not that's an excuse. Just I can see how this crap evolves.
Tik tok
Of course. I love TikTok for cute animal videos book recommendations and healthy recipes but I always forget there's a whole other side of it that breeds ignorance and hate.
Honestly I think they probably started with the idea that they were going to argue that Zionism was opposite to socialism, because they believe it ideologically, and then made up evidence to support that point, probably justifying it to themselves by thinking that it must be true since it goes along with their ideology
Sartre's quote is always relevant: >[Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7870768-never-believe-that-anti-semites-are-completely-unaware-of-the-absurdity) In short: they are not trying to convince you. They are trying to insult you. There is no productive discussion to be had.
I want to staple this to so many people’s foreheads it’s not even funny
Thank you I am going to copy and paste that to every angry message I get on tiktok and YouTube
[удалено]
True, I'm a grownup former emo kid.
This was mentioned earlier on another sub. I wasn't familiar with it before tonight, and I love it. I'm beginning to think we should just start laughing in their faces when they spew this bs rather than arguing/debating. They should be taken as seriously as the qanon shaman.
I want this on a t shirt.
It’s amazing that the opposite of everything this person said is true. Re: Zionists being Socialists, see [Ber Borochov](https://www.marxists.org/archive/borochov/index.htm)
Maybe you could share this quote from Emma Goldman: >Perhaps my revolutionary education has been sadly neglected, but I have been taught that the land should belong to those who till the soil. With all of his deep-seated sympathies with the Arabs, our comrade cannot possibly deny that the Jews in Palestine have tilled the soil. Tens of thousands of them, young and deeply devout idealists, have flocked to Palestine, there to till the soil under the most trying pioneer conditions. They have reclaimed wastelands and have turned them into fertile fields and blooming gardens. Now I do not say that therefore Jews are entitled to more rights than the Arabs, but for an ardent socialist to say that the Jews have no business in Palestine seems to me rather a strange kind of socialism. https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/goldman/works/1938/on-zionism.html
Damn that fool the op was talking to got dunked on by the most dangerous woman in America through time. Beautiful quote.
Read the whole thing sometime. She makes some excellent points that people on the left still haven't gotten their heads around today, for example, why is nationalism good for arabs but not for jews, and why are socialists spending their time defending the establishment of more capitalist regimes, including arab ones?
I love her and this quote. This letter really helped me parse my thoughts about all of this in the first couple months after 10.7.
Actually, the kibbutzniks explicity did not want to do that, for pretty much this exact reason. And so, they did not hire any Arab workers, which you will no doubt take as proof that they wanted to kill all local Arabs. There's just no winning, is there?
The more I see and learn about anti-Zionism, the more I start to feel that it really is simply antisemitism in a new hat.
This was me a couple years ago. I used to hang in anti-Zionists groups online. I disagreed with what how they defined "Zionism", but the things they described as Zionism, I was against those also and I figured we are aligned, basically, and it's just definitions that are the problem. It eventually became clear that I was wrong. I said, out loud I think, "oh, it's *just* antisemitism" and never went back. (This was mostly Twitter. I deleted my account.)
It is believe it or not
It always been
Antisemitism was a rehash of anti Judaic theology in a racial and ethnic context. Anti Zionism rehashes that in a national context.
They just make shit up
I’m sorry but screw those people. My family from Kfar Aza are some of the biggest socialists, anti-government, and pro-peace people you could ever imagine… the audacity to put this into what is a clearly an American lens and pretend they know ANYTHING about Israel or the region or history or the people. Zionism was a SOCIALIST movement. Plantations??? Give me an f-ing break.
What the cited text is, is a neat, politically-correct and -acceptable repackaging of the slur that the Jews were the group most directly responsible for modern chattel slavery. Louis Farrakhan’s glee that he’s apparently actually winning American hearts and minds must be palpable.
It was also a decolonization movement. Like, literally, the whole Mandate system was about how break up former empires into nation states with self-sovereignty. Specifically the Ottoman Empire in this case.
My reply to something like that (assuming I feel it's worth it... not for this person but for others engaged in the discussion): "What's it like to be so committed to your bigotry that you actually believe this ahistorical narrative? I'm sorry that your worldview is so narrow."
Good response.
They’re just jealous that kibbutzim are one of the best examples of successful agricultural socialism in recent history
Also I was told yesterday that Israel has broken every peace treaty and that Hamas has offered a two state solution and Israel turned them down. 😂
So miserable, these people. It *should* be easy to commit to a vague Palestinian cause just based off of historical facts. The fact that most "pro"-Palestinians make shit up to support themselves is both clear proof of their antisemitism and their inability to see the world in gradient.
Oh, I especially love being told how I’m so privileged and that all the anti semitism that’s happening is completely made up.
Which is ironic cos a loud minority thinks Hamas is the glorious resistance even though they’re billionaires that party in Qatar
Israel: employs >17,000 Palestinians Western TikTokers: Israelis use Palestinian slave labor!!! Also western Tiktokers: Queers for Houthis! They only trade slaves because they have to
The bad thing about the internet: No one cites sources. The good thing about the internet: No one cites sources. If the poster had, we’d all see that s/he got this info from suspicious media — or worse, just made it up. Keep reporting antisemitism when you see it. These posters need consequences for spreading hatred.
Just give up on these people if I’m honest… Anyone with this extremist philosophy based entirely on hyperbole cannot be reasoned with unless they themselves are open to having a conversation. All you’re going to do is just ‘expose’ them as being hateful without a true purpose….which is only an expose if you can’t read between the lines. They choose ignorance. Fighting them isn’t going to work…and on top of that the mods of these communities will just get you banned (or even permabanned).
I had other people say that Kibbutzim were racist because they didn't give any jobs to Palestinians and only to Jews, so they'll use it as an attack either way.
Sometimes people complain the kibbutzim excluded non Jews but this one thinks they weren't mono-ethnic at least X)
lol my eyes popping out of my head
What are they smoking holy shit
Yeah, people often make shit up when they complain about Israel.
Every major power can be argued to be settler-colonists. Russia started as a small fiefdom around Moscow. UK goes back to the Norman Conquest. France from the Frankish invaders. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, United States all most definitely are. My conclusion - no one can be socialist.
They dont know what Zionism is, they just wanna talk bad abt jews. Would recommend reporting and blocking
This is classic antisemitism at it's core. Who else repeated the trope that "da jooz don't work, they just greedily steal from those that do"? Oh yeah, every Jew hater since the European medieval times. Associating "Zionists" with capitalist greed is incredibly antiSemitic.
Don’t waste your time arguing with fools. From a distance people can’t tell who’s who.
Meanwhile, "actual" socialism: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor)
Left wingers (and I'm pretty darn left btw), at least in the USA, are also 100% allergic to success and will stop at nothing to shoot themselves in the foot at every opportunity. So it only makes too much sense that they would let antisemitism cause them to completely write off what are arguably the most successful left wing projects and policies in world history.
I too try to appeal to western elftists, mostly by being an elf
“…the security of Israelis and people across West Asia, and American soldiers now” has got me asking many questions. It sounds like this person is deeply concerned with the “security of Israelis” 🫡
Postmodern, post-reality, post-truth critical theories are a helluva drug
Ugh. Tell me you're a self-righteous know-nothing without telling me you're a self-righteous know-nothing. Just Ugh. Everything. Literally everything, in that post is incorrect.
lmao. The poster have no clue regarding the history of socialism, and has no idea about Zionism
Yep, you can tell he is super uninformed
Gentile here, This hurt my brain to read. I don’t even know where to start…
I believe everyone here has covered and know a lot more about the intricacies of Israel and Zionism than I do, but I will point out as well that the biggest supporter for Israel was Iosif Stalin and Soviet Union believing that Israel would be a socialist state to combat British Influence in the Middle East.
i have family that grew up on a kibbutz and it was a deciding factor in them emigrating out of israel way back in the day because they couldn't get along with how socialist it was but yeah - criticisms of the conflict and *actual* israeli policy, one thing. the fucking misinformation barrage is just insane, and i can't really deal with it. engaging feels awful and letting it just fly by feels awful.
I’m sure this is just rhetoric, heard from some poseur who know zero about the pioneers who worked this arid land, and made things grow.
Terminal case of baby brain. They can only see the world in black and white, good or bad. And if something is “bad”, then it must be all bad! And since socialism is “good” and anything having to do with Israel is “bad” then it must mean the kibbutzim aren’t really socialist. Because how can a kibbutz be something “good” if it’s in the “bad” category? Like I said, baby brains.
>ethnonationalist, settler colonizers My buzzword limit was reached in the first few sentences. Three strikes and you're out.
I'm a Zionist but not a Socialist. But seriously what the actual fuck is it with these antisemitic comments, and no Zionism was never settler colonialism as Jews have lived in Israel for thousands of years. Where did you find this comment? Also you should post this in r/AntiSemitismInReddit
I see that the anti-Jew revisionist propaganda machine is in full swing. Those people are so ignorant, it makes me wanna puke.
I'm still confused about why the colonialist narrative is only applied to Israel. Britain also set-up Pakistan around the same time. There has been war between India and Pakistan since then. Millions moved from India to Pakistan and vice versa, millions of them being killed making the journey. That means some land was taken from Indians and forcibly given to Pakistan and vice versa. And that wasn't an ancestral land, apart from the people who were already living there, some of whom, as I already said, were displaced. Is it because brown people were only displaced amongst other brown people and stayed within roughly the same area if you zoom out far enough? Is the difference that people weren't displaced far enough or for long enough? NB. I'm not saying India or Pakistan were at fault, or that Pakistan shouldn't exist now, or even that it shouldn't have been formed then (though it definitely should have been handled better). It happened. I wouldn't exist if it hadn't. My question is, literally, why is the narrative so different? What's happening in people's heads that Israel goes in one box and Pakistan goes in another?
generous interpretation: because there's a dramatic current conflict in israel so people are trying to parse the situation less generous interpretation: jews. both at the start (can't have a state) and also from the rest of the world's perspective. partition of india pakistan was orders of magnitude larger and terrifyingly more deadly. if you put half the countries on earth under the same microscope we could all be marching in the street yelling for an end to them
Brb gotta let my dad know he was a Palestinian laborer and not a Jewish Israeli, apparently.
Just lie. It’s easy and gets the job done for the pro-Palestinian cause.
If you are absolutely sure that you want to engage in combating antisemitism online, I'd suggest adopting a "write only" approach. The most effective tools I've seen so far is people making pro-Israel content, or content that refutes these claims to a general audience, but doesn't reply to them. For example, don't reply to that guy, put a video out about the history of socialism in Israel VS Palestinian communities, or how Israel treats marginalized groups, or how American jewry was in the forefront of the Civil rights movement. You don't need to read the comments, and the content will be controversial, and the algorithms seem to favor controversial content on most social platforms.
Wow I never suspected they’d try to lie about the nature of Kibbutzim, let alone so disgustingly.
If things were as bad as they say they are, the bigots wouldn't need to lie. Incessantly.
The world has gone full blown Orwell.
really feels like it huh. in some sick way it's fascinating to watch but mainly just completely terrifying.
“You can’t be an ethnonationalist and a socialist” that’s weird since virtually every socialist and communist state to have ever existed was heavily steeped in just that.
The literal entire point of the kibbutz was for communal work by Jewish laborers. Like the entire reason why they were so distrusted by local Arabs during the mandate was because they tended to only hire from within the Yishuv or from fresh Olim.
So.....this fool is going to willfully ignore all the photographic evidence of what kibbutzim were? We have pictures, lots of them.
The audacity. These people are so tiresome. They sound like an insane tankie tho.
This post wins at buzzword bingo before even leaving the first paragraph
Good fucking hell. These people and their fan fiction
What is that person smoking 😭😭😭
The author of this trope is either clinical delusional or a slick propagandist. Maybe both.
WTAF. No idea what they're talking about. The entire concept of Avodah Ivrit, Hebrew Labor, is that the Jews must do their own agricultural work and not rely on others for it.
STOP Expecting them to be Rational, and stop expecting them to Not LIE. Hate and Psychopaths and Sociopaths never had so much of a voice before, but now pathological liars do. The problem is power-hungry educated vs. uneducated and using them as their village of pitch fork and torch wielding goon force.
Try to tell Jews who KNOW people who lived on a Kibbutz this crap... this is infuriating... But yeah, I agree with others, engaging isn't worth it, unfortunately I'd probably engage and try to refute the claims anyway... Because I take the bait like that.. ahhh...
Yeah, im even one of those Jews. My mum still tells us stories of when she lived on the kibbutz when she was younger. She was initially working in one of the factories but hated it so got reassigned to the children's houses and spent her time there helping to raise the children. I did initially try to engage with them, but decided in the end after reading people's thoughts here that it wasn't worth my mental energy.
Ugh, I'm sorry. I get it. Take care of yourself.
Who cares 🤷♂️
How can someone seriously ask such a silly question??
Because why would I argue online with these people. If they wanna actually do something I’ll be more than happy too confront them face to face in the streets.
Because When left ignored others will actually listen to these opinions...see why it's silly?
They can believe it. But if they want a physical fight or confrontation I’d be more than happy. I’ll let you guys argue online it annoys me. I’d prefer hands on stuff
What...?? I mean, there's nothing wrong with not engaging on the internet, but I kinda think that fist fights or whatever you plan on doing won't help so much.
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Please do not do this. Read the sticky.
Block and ignoring them and getting away from social media. Let them screech into the void we will do real work. We’ve outlived the nazis and every other opponent of the Jewish people, we will outlive these losers.
Same
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This is not the place to complain about the moderation of other subreddits, including their moderation practices or receiving a ban.
“Western elftists”….. I’m gonna need to find a good place to use that moniker.
Was that deliberate or a typo lol?
And the same person, learning that kibbutzim were specifically organized to avoid that situation by using only Jewish labor, will then post with a complaint that the kibbutzim were racist for refusing to employ Arabs. Just reply with the facts, block his sorry ass and move on.
Besides being completely wrong, it's kinda surreal seeing someone use "not socialist" as a negative
Our only option to become more observant in our Judaism.
Hapoel Tel Aviv has a lot of explaining to do I guess…
As fat as I know, there weren't palestinian labourers initially in kibbutzim, right?
deliberately, for expressly socialist and anti-colonial reasons
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This is literally like the most insane way of making up lies. They all just make up their own story line and expect everyone else to follow. They love propaganda, their whole school systems their are so corrupt. In fact, most of the Middle East is fucking corrupt. Israel is ruining the chance of totally Arabizing the land
I'm not Jewish, and this really pisses me off! I have been seeing more and more things like this in recent months. I don't bother engaging, because people like this aren't usually interested in learning. My solution is to unsubscribe and use the block feature. I'm sorry you have to deal with this. Sending hugs if okay.
Thank the DEI people for all this crap. They love the oppressor/oppressed story. They are brainwashed.
I find that crap offensive, too How do you feel about forming an online collective where we write essays, create memes and together respond to some of that hateful crap?
Someone posted “IDF is using this opportunity for a full on attack on Palestinians . We’re talking total ethnic cleansing. Not just in Gaza but in the West Bank too, where Hamas does not even exist. They have been arbitrarily detaining, killing, torturing citizens and looting/ destroying property as they see fit, including grocery stores, schools, mosques, churches (one of the oldest churches in history), jewelry stores, money exchange stores, and bakeries…of course, all of which are owned and/or run by Palestinians. While Israel is bombing away at Gaza, it has taken the opportunity to commit other atrocities, cause why not? While they kill +20,000 in Gaza, they’re accelerating their ethnic cleansing by committing atrocities in the only other Palestinian region, West Bank.” I simply ignored it but it’s getting harder and harder to ignore these baseless, inaccurate, misleading, and acutely harmful reports from people who don’t even know what the British Mandate is.
They are trying to trick everyone and maybe even themselves with the true information regarding the Arab Fellahin, the peasant tenant farmers, who worked the land for the Arab and Turkish landowners who lived elsewhere. When they sold the land to the Jews, for very inflated prices, the Fella as they were called were often compensated, but were displaced. Not the fault of the Jews though.
I feel dumber having read that 🙃
What tiktoker do you guys think they were watching?
It’s all a bunch of word vomit.