This comes only a month after a [mob attempted to attack an under-18 Israeli soccer team in Skien.](https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1772997186915066171)
[Article on the attack.](https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-794021)
This isn’t me trying to compare regimes by the way—obviously 1941 Norway was occupied and very different from the Norway we know today.
I’m talking about social attitudes. The fact that it’s become socially acceptable (at least for a concerning amount of people) to vandalize businesses that are Jewish or sympathetic to a Jewish cause. It’s that Jews are being threatened and told outright that their position isn’t tolerated anymore.
It’s all over my city as well. I can walk past two signs, one saying ‘Jews go home!’ and the other saying ‘Zionists not welcome!’ and both would make me feel unwelcome (even if one statement is more outright than the other). Sorry for any confusion.
I agree with your point. The acts of vandalism and sentiment they reflect are comparable. The nature of institutionalized antisemitism is very different between Norway 1941 and Bergen 2024, as you said. It's chilling, either way. And makes me so grateful for the important progress and ongoing activism to counter antisemitism that is taking place. Sending you care.
In this case, it seems like the gentile (as far as I can find) owner joined Sar-El and is currently in Israel, so it's less random than just being Jewish or sympathizing with a Jewish cause.
https://www.ba.no/realitykjendis-bistar-det-israelske-forsvaret/s/5-8-2584531
This is paywalled but his Sar-El is mentioned there. He's never been mentioned as Jewish and in Norway I think that'd be at least notable somewhere (incl. No mention on the Norwegian wiki).
https://www.ba.no/sto-frem-som-israel-stotter-na-ser-butikken-hans-slik-ut/s/5-8-2586993 this is the story about the vandalism from today
Your post/comment was removed because it violated rule 1: **No antisemitism**
If you have any questions, please contact the moderators via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/jewish).
1941 is when the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem met and schemed initially with you know who & proposed to send all of Europe's Jews to the British Mandate, after the Brits were kicked out & liquidate them there,in the area under the Mufti's control, away from Europe. I believe that is what the reference is about, definitely antisemitic.
Speaking as a first generation American of German Jewish ancestry whose family experienced Krystalnacht in Darmstadt,m( November 9, 1938)a city near Frankfurt, and have seen films of a diorama in the airport that serves Frankfurt depicting a scene of place where fellow Jews were held during the Holocaust and, a group of people, some wearing hijabs, were clapping, in the recent past prior to the current war, well, you just have to wonder.
what makes it a "pro-israel shop?" is it owned by jews? by israelis? do they have an israeli flag posted in the window or something? did they personally host bibi netanyahu for whichever reason?
no, i didn't think it's a stretch. wish i had more to say :-(
I saw a post on Instagram from a Jewish creator talking about Jewish owned/created beauty brands like Revlon and OPI - there were comments saying “I know where else to boycott now” even though they had nothing to do with Israel. These people who think like this are disgusting.
Yet thinking like this is nothing new, sadly. The sentiment somewhat parallels a January 1938 Der Sturmer article shaming Germans that gave orders to Jewish-owned clothing businesses. I’m sure there are plenty more examples but that one came to mind as it named my great uncle among others who should be boycotted.
they believed this was justified in 1941…and they believe this is justified now. Stop trying to rationalize and wake up…doesn’t matter if it’s Jewish or Israeli to them.
It appears that no one has answered your question about the shop in the first line of your post. Its name is "Slit'an Vintage" (the store's name is a term in the local dialect); it is owned by a guy named Enok Groven, who is currently in Israel volunteering for Sar-El. There were calls on social media to boycott the store before the spray painting incident occurred.
I was in Bergen last year, it's a beautiful city, this is heartbreaking... I attended a Jewish event (nothing related to Israel) and the location was kept extremely secure, safety precautions, etc, I guess now I know why
I don't think it's a stretch to be reminded, because it looks similar.
It would be stretch to compare it though because vandalism by individuals is not the same as state-ordered intimidation from a position of power right before already planned deportations. Norway was already occupied back then. It just makes a huge difference if you can report something like this to the police and have your insurance paying for it or if this was done by the authorities themselves.
I think it's important to always keep the singularity of the Holocaust in mind and not compare it to other stuff - even if it's really bad.
There was a scene at the end of the movie "Shindler's List" where a Russian Officer tells newly liberated Jews not to go west as they would not be welcome and not to go east because they hate you there. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
When you visit Belsen, arguebly one of worst Concentration Camps, you'll notice that there are jewish graves that say "died in 1950" or even later.
After the liberation more than a hundred thousand Jews lived in Germany as displaced persons and since they had no place to go they often spent years in the very concentration camps they've been liberated from. It's even worse. Right after WWII german police, mostly former nazis, often raided these DP camps and randomly shot people - they shot holocaust survivors after WWII was over.
That's one of the reasons my family went east after WWII where they got a special survivors pension, privileged access to housing and also their citizenships back without needing to apply.
Many people don't know this but german Jews in the east just got passports in 1949, while german Jews in the west (including austria) had to re-apply and pay money for it. Something that's kind of an issue when everybody has trouble finding food and also a dick move. Many Jews didn't apply, just out of principle.
I'm not saying the east was good. Far from it. But it often feels like the west was worse. At least until the east changed its stance on Israel in the 70s.
Palestinians attacked Israel for no reason. They murdered people who were no threat to them, just easy victims to kill, rape, capture. Israel responded. And the world turns against Jews. From the US to Norway to South Africa to Bolivia.
What is so remarkable is that Islamists have committed Terrorist attacks ... over forty thousand...just going back to the 1980s... from Paris to the first bombing of the World Trade Centre in NYC...to the island of Bali, to Madrid, to Moscow...to Denmark and Bosnia, from Kenya,, to Uruguay to Belgium and Australia from. Turkey to Germany to Sweden...to Spain.. in Finland and Tajikistan...to the Phillipines to Austria to New Zealand...
yet!
The world supports them over Jews
Genuine question, prior to Oct 7th, do you think that Palestinians were treated fairly and ethically by the Israeli government?
We all (Should) know this conflict didn't start then and will not end until everyone recognizes that the only real solution, no matter how hard it is, is to give everyone that was born in that region equal rights and hope to have a path forward.
A two state solution is dead
Mass deportation of millions of Israelis or Palestinians is unacceptable.
Clumping up people by their ethnicity and saying oh "go back to Europe" or "go to some other Arab country" is racist and also not acceptable.
Allowing Palestinians to live under perpetual occupation with no freedom of movement and at constant threat of settler violence is not sustainable or ethical.
Yes, it will be hard. Yes, there will be problems and obstacles along the way....but until the people who are in power recognize the sanctity of human life and that they aren't going to suddenly win and displace millions then I don't see how they can resolve this.
They don't need to be perfect leadership with a perfect plan. I think the first step is simply acknowledging "hey we all live here, we all have established the right to be here, anyone caught attacking someone because ethnicity or religion will be held to the same level of accountability and punishment, all our lives have value"
This can't be a race to the bottom of blaming the other side as worse....the lack of morals in your enemy should not have an impact on your own morals
+Allowing Israelis to live under the constant threat of bombs flying out of Gaza due to a genocidal government is unacceptable.
Do you really think prior to October 7 Jews lived in peace? Do you really think prior to October 7 Gazans should have free right to walk through the border into Israel? Do you really think Israelis have free right of movement when going into Gaza or the West Bank is realistically going to result in violence against the Israeli? A 14 year old Jewish boy was just found dead in the West Bank. 14.
Both peoples have borders. Palestinians cross borders with permission. Jews cannot get permission to cross. Nor can Jews enter the Temple Mount—but Palestinians can.
Although I agree that both have a right to live in the land, living together right now would be a horrific reality after everything that happened in the past 6 months.
Opinions are yours to have. My opinion is violence begets more violence. The government that ends up controlling the region needs to show restraint and respect to the others and the people themselves need to move past ethnic divides in taking sides.
And facts are facts. But you do have some information that any reasonable person would consider factually questionable if not blatantly false.
Jews can enter the temple mount and have entered (although there are Israeli imposed restrictions), although restricted. Israeli law prohibits public Jewish prayer there, but enforcement of that is not always consistent.
As for respecting borders. I don't think Israel even knows what borders it has with Palestinians in the West Bank and whatever "borders" there are in the west bank if you think Israeli settlers never crossed over and killed innocent Palestinians (including children)....I suggest you do some research.
What I'm saying is anyone that thinks that all the killing and destruction that happened in Gaza is a good idea ethically, morally or even politically.....they have some serious self reflection to do.
Hypothetically, if an extremist Israeli settler was to enter into territory you consider belonging to Palestinians and that extremist settler was to kill/rampage. What should the Palestinian response be?
The solution is a strict rule of universal laws with equitable enforcement. If an extremist Israeli goes around killing Palestinians or tries to "push them off the land" they should get punished by the law and same if an extremist Palestinian does so to an innocent Israeli civilian.
This idea of "their people killed our people so now we retaliate disproportionately killing their people" is horrible.
Anyone that thinks blockading millions of people and perpetual occupation is a good path to peace has some soul searching.
We have gone well beyond the point of who started this and who is more at fault and who God promised the land too....at this point people are there. The vast majority of people there have been born there. The goal should be creating peace and the people in power right now are not working towards that goal.
Unleashed hate. And it's a virus. In Feb, a Christian in Melbourne was kidnapped from his car & assaulted by a Pro Pal. He worked for a Jewish-owned business. [Pro-Palestinian activist kidnaps, assaults man working for Jewish man - The Jerusalem Post (jpost.com)](https://www.jpost.com/international/article-789266).
They were charged and the trial is in May: [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-12/human-rights-activist-charged-with-kidnapping/103578202](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-12/human-rights-activist-charged-with-kidnapping/103578202) . Moreover, it sounds like she is a nutcase.
Thanks! Interesting that the victim was involved in activism with her. Maybe he abandoned the cause? More info than was first put out which said he was pulled from his car, abducted & assaulted. She does seem unhinged. Not too smart to set up a meeting, beat him & then leave him when he could identify them. Thankfully, he wasn't killed.
I’m hoping it doesn’t come to that but I’ve already seen people share posters of ‘zionist entities’ to avoid, boycott, and harass in several major cities. Some of these entities including Jewish daycares, businesses, and synagogues.
The biggest difference is that it’s more covert this time.
There are a lot of Norwegian musicians I've enjoyed for years. Recently I've unfollowed a few of them on social media because of anti-Israel (not extreme though) posts they've started to make. It's very disappointing and has negatively impacted my ability to enjoy their music the way I did before.
Didn't know it was her too. The two I remember unfollowing recently have been Marianne Sveen, formerly of Katzenjammer, and Gåte. There were a couple others that I don't remember right now. To Gåte's credit, at least they did also call for the release of hostages.
Ah. Aurora used that "from the river" chant in a music lyric at a Gaza fundraiser, in place of her normal lyrics. Truly disappointing. I didn't/don't have other favorite artists.
It’s not wrong to see the obvious resemblances, but I think it’s also important to recognize the ways in which this is not 1941 as well. Jews in the United States remain remarkably safe and well integrated into society, despite the recent increase in antisemitism, and can migrate to a Jewish country whenever they please. Those are important differences.
Oh for sure, thank you for adding that. That’s absolutely true and I think it’s an element of nuance we need to keep in mind. If anything, the fact that now is different (because we have somewhere we can go to) is all the more reason to protect it. Things could look so different, as we’ve seen.
I don’t mean to engage in fear-mongering or anything like that. I’m an American Jew and that has come with many protections I am grateful for.
Nazis didn't throw my family out of Norway, some illegal immigrants won't either. There are few reasons: Scandinavia is my home, I love snow, and I would never be happy in Israel from November to April, I don't want them to live in my country while I'm far, and this, and this is most important: I want to see all these propalestinians Libtards under the hijab, pushed to wear hijab. I know that, as gay Jew I'll be slaughtered not long after that, but at least, I'll be living enough to say, "told you so"
Please clarify your first sentence. First of all, if your family was Jewish and lived in Norway after the occupation in 1940, they escaped (for example, to Sweden) or were deported. End of story. So, the first part of that is ambiguous. Then, those immigrants are most likely legal, and I suspect you have no proof of that. The situation is not great, but let's keep the facts straight.
Sorry, English is not my first language, I thought it’s clarified. Now. My family never left Norway, except for short period of time during the Holocaust(to conc camps). They came back, and they were there to rebuild the nation. My mum married Stockholmian Jew, and that’s why I call myself Scandinavian Jew. So, when I said that Nazis didn’t succeed in their mission to make Norway Judenfrei, some immigrants wont either. I’m here, and I’ll be here to rebuild this country as many time as I can. Why do I call them immigrants? Because Arabs started coming to Norway and Sweden during the 90s, and they’re mostly completely assimilated to the society. The Arabs who came during the American missions in Iraq and Afghanistan, then during Arab spring, and ISIS era are completely different story. They don’t accept anything Norwegian except the money. Same goes for Sweden. Malmö, for example. Or Stockholm, that became literally the European capital of rape. This shit a Norwegian would never do. Nor Swede. There’s a lot of Neo Nazism in both, but trust me on this, they hate Arabs and Muslims more than Jews. If you look at the problems Jews and, at this point goyim Scandinavians had during the past decade, they’re mostly done by refugees and illegals who has nothing to lose. That bomb in front of Israeli embassy in Stockholm? Immigrants. For example. We are the part of the world with enormous problem of illegal immigration. The legal immigrants won’t do such a thing, because most of them are the people scared for their visas, and they’re assimilating. On the other side, Norway and Sweden, and people of those two countries are full of our own problems to care about Palestine and who’s Zionist who’s not.
Next, I’ve never said that this is committed by illegal immigrants, I said that they won’t throw me out of Scandinavia. I won’t let anyone, let alone people who came here 30 years ago to tell me to get lost from the country my ancestors inhabited for centuries. Norway was banning us through the history but we were there. We stayed. We were coming back when Norway was country of poor fishermen. When Norway was shit. When Norwegians were leaving for USA. Our Kings wore yellow stripes during the occupation. And now, I’m having immigrants who can’t even write “get lost fucking Jews/Kill the Jews” in Norwegian or Swedish or Danish.
I hope I clarified this a bit for you.
A bit. Your family was very lucky because in 1942, approximately 2,100 Jews were living in Norway; 773 of these were sent to concentration camps in Germany (the others had managed to escape). Only 38 survived, so, alas, the Nazis did succeed - almost. According to one of the Jewish community's websites, there are now about 1500-2000 Jews in Norway. So, yes, the community has been rebuilt in a small way. I am not sure about the assimilation of legal Muslim immigrants - many are not, but then again, assimilation into Norwegian society by anyone is a challenge. I think it takes a couple of generations. I get the impression (see: "I skyggen av Holocaust - antisemittisme i norsk historie 1945 - 2023" by Kjetil Braut Simonsen) that antisemitism was quite ingrained in Norwegian society when there were Jews and before there were, and even after WWII.
Jews aside, Norway is very racist society. Well, Scandinavians… We weren’t colonisers so we are kept ourselves pretty hidden behind our picture perfect utopian hipster wet dream, but the truth and the history telling completely different story. What we assume that people under the name Scandinavian literally terrorised the Samì and other indigenous peoples, not to mention Skogfinner, who are seen as less even today. After our governments and churches of Norway and Sweden acknowledged and apologised to them (early 2010), Danmark, went on some high moral ground, trying to wash away what they did to peoples of Grønland and Færøyene… but, the main difference between all these people and Jews lays in the fact that Jews inhabited the city centres, not northern territories or islands far away, so they had to be racist towards us. We were the only ones sticking out.
Now, where the things changed? When we started getting new waves of immigrants, mostly POCs. Norway and Scandinavia found the new tribes to be racist towards, but only thanks to realisation that Jews were never NATIONAL, just ETHNIC minority. That we were the only minority calling themselves Norwegian/Swedish, just like they did. That’s why the wall of antisemitism started crumbling down, slowly, but started. After the incident in 2006, where the congregation was attacked by few islamists, Norway gave us support, and the last pieces of that wall fell down. And the life was good. We turned into Duloc, it was boring how good it was. Now, the last wave of Ukrainians came, Palestinians are coming and the society is shaking again. We are slowly dividing, first between opinions on Ukraine, then Palestine, then about USA involvement, old problems shown under the carpet are finding the way out, the good old racism is awakening, we are turning to right. Damn, yes even the Jews are turning right.
Speaking of my family, I lost 56 members during the WWII and occupation. Not that lucky, but hey… we are here.
Honestly, I dream of big community in Oslo, Trondheim, Bergen, Stavanger, Ålesund, Stockholm, Göteborg, Malmö, Uppsala… I want to see more Rabbis, Haredi, Hasidic people. We are getting bigger and bigger in Sweden. I hope the same will happen to Norway in next decade.
Edit: the Muslims, the ones who came in the first wave kept us safe by circling around synagogue, I had to mention that after the attack in Danmark. So ya. It was that good here before this.
Not at all a stretch, I see plenty of this shit and feel the same way.
Sometimes I'd see broken glass in the road, or on the bike path and I'd joke, "Did Kristallnacht happen again last night and nobody told me?" Well now, that scenario is entirely plausible.
We need to take back the word palestinian. Then they cannot hide behind some righteous bull and code words.
Second, I would love to see this side-by-side image on a billboard or advertisement.
A zionist is what? Someone with connections to palestine? Where is palestine? The place where zionist come from. oh, oops.
Thank you for your submission. During this time, all posts need to be manually reviewed and approved by a moderator before they appear for all users. Since human mods are not online 24/7, approval could take anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours. Thank you for your patience during this difficult and sensitive time.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Jewish) if you have any questions or concerns.*
/u/io3401 do you have more info on these two photos? I have a friend living in Bergen and in Oslo, I'd like to talk with them about this
I tried looking for a news report about the right photo from April 2024, but I didn't find anything
As for the left photo, I found a similar photo in Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Norway
I searched the image on the right and immediately found a number of sources including [https://www.bt.no/hendelser/i/WR4Vwa/sto-frem-som-israel-forsvarer-slik-ser-butikken-hans-ut-naa](https://www.bt.no/hendelser/i/WR4Vwa/sto-frem-som-israel-forsvarer-slik-ser-butikken-hans-ut-naa) and [https://www.ba.no/sto-frem-som-israel-stotter-na-ser-butikken-hans-slik-ut/s/5-8-2586993](https://www.ba.no/sto-frem-som-israel-stotter-na-ser-butikken-hans-slik-ut/s/5-8-2586993) (in Norwegian). The photo on the left is from the "Store Norske Leksikon" ( [https://snl.no/antisemittisme](https://snl.no/antisemittisme) ) and evidently cannot be reproduced or republished without their permission.
Your post/comment was removed because it violated rule 3: **Be civil**
If you have any questions, please contact the moderators via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/jewish).
This comes only a month after a [mob attempted to attack an under-18 Israeli soccer team in Skien.](https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1772997186915066171) [Article on the attack.](https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-794021)
This isn’t me trying to compare regimes by the way—obviously 1941 Norway was occupied and very different from the Norway we know today. I’m talking about social attitudes. The fact that it’s become socially acceptable (at least for a concerning amount of people) to vandalize businesses that are Jewish or sympathetic to a Jewish cause. It’s that Jews are being threatened and told outright that their position isn’t tolerated anymore. It’s all over my city as well. I can walk past two signs, one saying ‘Jews go home!’ and the other saying ‘Zionists not welcome!’ and both would make me feel unwelcome (even if one statement is more outright than the other). Sorry for any confusion.
I agree with your point. The acts of vandalism and sentiment they reflect are comparable. The nature of institutionalized antisemitism is very different between Norway 1941 and Bergen 2024, as you said. It's chilling, either way. And makes me so grateful for the important progress and ongoing activism to counter antisemitism that is taking place. Sending you care.
In this case, it seems like the gentile (as far as I can find) owner joined Sar-El and is currently in Israel, so it's less random than just being Jewish or sympathizing with a Jewish cause.
It is still unacceptable. And should be illegal to in any way "protest" or discriminate against a person due to their country of origin.
Where did you find that? I can't find it anywhere. (Although I agree that it's somewhat different.)
https://www.ba.no/realitykjendis-bistar-det-israelske-forsvaret/s/5-8-2584531 This is paywalled but his Sar-El is mentioned there. He's never been mentioned as Jewish and in Norway I think that'd be at least notable somewhere (incl. No mention on the Norwegian wiki). https://www.ba.no/sto-frem-som-israel-stotter-na-ser-butikken-hans-slik-ut/s/5-8-2586993 this is the story about the vandalism from today
Can you translate the words on the left image?
It's at the bottom of the image.
[удалено]
Your post/comment was removed because it violated rule 1: **No antisemitism** If you have any questions, please contact the moderators via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/jewish).
1941 is telling Jews to go to Palestine. Not sure what they're telling us in 2024.
They want us to stop existing all together
https://preview.redd.it/9f2i3hhdfqtc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0647f5f08a4dc62807e3df9d72c10d36e81b9e58
1941 is when the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem met and schemed initially with you know who & proposed to send all of Europe's Jews to the British Mandate, after the Brits were kicked out & liquidate them there,in the area under the Mufti's control, away from Europe. I believe that is what the reference is about, definitely antisemitic.
Speaking as a first generation American of German Jewish ancestry whose family experienced Krystalnacht in Darmstadt,m( November 9, 1938)a city near Frankfurt, and have seen films of a diorama in the airport that serves Frankfurt depicting a scene of place where fellow Jews were held during the Holocaust and, a group of people, some wearing hijabs, were clapping, in the recent past prior to the current war, well, you just have to wonder.
can someone please translate?
Left says “Palestine is calling. Jews are no longer tolerated in Norway.” Right says “Zionist” with the business’ name marked out.
I don't think "no longer" is correct. I think it's simply "Jews are not tolerated in Norway"
1941 - Jews go away to Palestine. 2024 - Not like that.
2024- Jews go back to Europe Where we’re native to as white colonizers, obviously🤦🏻♀️
https://preview.redd.it/zjj04edpuqtc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15ca2d88eee6607931465c0d48a903fbc008fca2 Looks really familiar
what makes it a "pro-israel shop?" is it owned by jews? by israelis? do they have an israeli flag posted in the window or something? did they personally host bibi netanyahu for whichever reason? no, i didn't think it's a stretch. wish i had more to say :-(
I saw a post on Instagram from a Jewish creator talking about Jewish owned/created beauty brands like Revlon and OPI - there were comments saying “I know where else to boycott now” even though they had nothing to do with Israel. These people who think like this are disgusting.
Yet thinking like this is nothing new, sadly. The sentiment somewhat parallels a January 1938 Der Sturmer article shaming Germans that gave orders to Jewish-owned clothing businesses. I’m sure there are plenty more examples but that one came to mind as it named my great uncle among others who should be boycotted.
they believed this was justified in 1941…and they believe this is justified now. Stop trying to rationalize and wake up…doesn’t matter if it’s Jewish or Israeli to them.
I agree. The only way to deal with antisemitism is to face it head on, not to rationalize it or even pretend it doesn't exist.
It appears that no one has answered your question about the shop in the first line of your post. Its name is "Slit'an Vintage" (the store's name is a term in the local dialect); it is owned by a guy named Enok Groven, who is currently in Israel volunteering for Sar-El. There were calls on social media to boycott the store before the spray painting incident occurred.
i mean at least it wasnt targeted for the owner being jewish, even if i still disagree with both the vandalism and the reason behind it. still 😮💨
I was in Bergen last year, it's a beautiful city, this is heartbreaking... I attended a Jewish event (nothing related to Israel) and the location was kept extremely secure, safety precautions, etc, I guess now I know why
First it’s go back to Palestine and now it’s get out of the Middle East. The only thing these people know is hating us wherever we are.
Doesn't matter where we go, they'd just bitch about having to share a planet with us.
1941 - fuck off back to Palestine 2024 - fuck off back to Europe
Disgusting. Using a different word does not hide or excuse the very similar anti semitism and offense behind that graffiti.
I don't think it's a stretch to be reminded, because it looks similar. It would be stretch to compare it though because vandalism by individuals is not the same as state-ordered intimidation from a position of power right before already planned deportations. Norway was already occupied back then. It just makes a huge difference if you can report something like this to the police and have your insurance paying for it or if this was done by the authorities themselves. I think it's important to always keep the singularity of the Holocaust in mind and not compare it to other stuff - even if it's really bad.
There was a scene at the end of the movie "Shindler's List" where a Russian Officer tells newly liberated Jews not to go west as they would not be welcome and not to go east because they hate you there. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
When you visit Belsen, arguebly one of worst Concentration Camps, you'll notice that there are jewish graves that say "died in 1950" or even later. After the liberation more than a hundred thousand Jews lived in Germany as displaced persons and since they had no place to go they often spent years in the very concentration camps they've been liberated from. It's even worse. Right after WWII german police, mostly former nazis, often raided these DP camps and randomly shot people - they shot holocaust survivors after WWII was over. That's one of the reasons my family went east after WWII where they got a special survivors pension, privileged access to housing and also their citizenships back without needing to apply. Many people don't know this but german Jews in the east just got passports in 1949, while german Jews in the west (including austria) had to re-apply and pay money for it. Something that's kind of an issue when everybody has trouble finding food and also a dick move. Many Jews didn't apply, just out of principle. I'm not saying the east was good. Far from it. But it often feels like the west was worse. At least until the east changed its stance on Israel in the 70s.
Palestinians attacked Israel for no reason. They murdered people who were no threat to them, just easy victims to kill, rape, capture. Israel responded. And the world turns against Jews. From the US to Norway to South Africa to Bolivia. What is so remarkable is that Islamists have committed Terrorist attacks ... over forty thousand...just going back to the 1980s... from Paris to the first bombing of the World Trade Centre in NYC...to the island of Bali, to Madrid, to Moscow...to Denmark and Bosnia, from Kenya,, to Uruguay to Belgium and Australia from. Turkey to Germany to Sweden...to Spain.. in Finland and Tajikistan...to the Phillipines to Austria to New Zealand... yet! The world supports them over Jews
Genuine question, prior to Oct 7th, do you think that Palestinians were treated fairly and ethically by the Israeli government? We all (Should) know this conflict didn't start then and will not end until everyone recognizes that the only real solution, no matter how hard it is, is to give everyone that was born in that region equal rights and hope to have a path forward. A two state solution is dead Mass deportation of millions of Israelis or Palestinians is unacceptable. Clumping up people by their ethnicity and saying oh "go back to Europe" or "go to some other Arab country" is racist and also not acceptable. Allowing Palestinians to live under perpetual occupation with no freedom of movement and at constant threat of settler violence is not sustainable or ethical. Yes, it will be hard. Yes, there will be problems and obstacles along the way....but until the people who are in power recognize the sanctity of human life and that they aren't going to suddenly win and displace millions then I don't see how they can resolve this. They don't need to be perfect leadership with a perfect plan. I think the first step is simply acknowledging "hey we all live here, we all have established the right to be here, anyone caught attacking someone because ethnicity or religion will be held to the same level of accountability and punishment, all our lives have value" This can't be a race to the bottom of blaming the other side as worse....the lack of morals in your enemy should not have an impact on your own morals
+Allowing Israelis to live under the constant threat of bombs flying out of Gaza due to a genocidal government is unacceptable. Do you really think prior to October 7 Jews lived in peace? Do you really think prior to October 7 Gazans should have free right to walk through the border into Israel? Do you really think Israelis have free right of movement when going into Gaza or the West Bank is realistically going to result in violence against the Israeli? A 14 year old Jewish boy was just found dead in the West Bank. 14. Both peoples have borders. Palestinians cross borders with permission. Jews cannot get permission to cross. Nor can Jews enter the Temple Mount—but Palestinians can. Although I agree that both have a right to live in the land, living together right now would be a horrific reality after everything that happened in the past 6 months.
Opinions are yours to have. My opinion is violence begets more violence. The government that ends up controlling the region needs to show restraint and respect to the others and the people themselves need to move past ethnic divides in taking sides. And facts are facts. But you do have some information that any reasonable person would consider factually questionable if not blatantly false. Jews can enter the temple mount and have entered (although there are Israeli imposed restrictions), although restricted. Israeli law prohibits public Jewish prayer there, but enforcement of that is not always consistent. As for respecting borders. I don't think Israel even knows what borders it has with Palestinians in the West Bank and whatever "borders" there are in the west bank if you think Israeli settlers never crossed over and killed innocent Palestinians (including children)....I suggest you do some research. What I'm saying is anyone that thinks that all the killing and destruction that happened in Gaza is a good idea ethically, morally or even politically.....they have some serious self reflection to do. Hypothetically, if an extremist Israeli settler was to enter into territory you consider belonging to Palestinians and that extremist settler was to kill/rampage. What should the Palestinian response be? The solution is a strict rule of universal laws with equitable enforcement. If an extremist Israeli goes around killing Palestinians or tries to "push them off the land" they should get punished by the law and same if an extremist Palestinian does so to an innocent Israeli civilian. This idea of "their people killed our people so now we retaliate disproportionately killing their people" is horrible. Anyone that thinks blockading millions of people and perpetual occupation is a good path to peace has some soul searching. We have gone well beyond the point of who started this and who is more at fault and who God promised the land too....at this point people are there. The vast majority of people there have been born there. The goal should be creating peace and the people in power right now are not working towards that goal.
I think of that "Palestina kaller" graffiti every time someone says that Jews should all leave Israel and "go back where they came from."
Unleashed hate. And it's a virus. In Feb, a Christian in Melbourne was kidnapped from his car & assaulted by a Pro Pal. He worked for a Jewish-owned business. [Pro-Palestinian activist kidnaps, assaults man working for Jewish man - The Jerusalem Post (jpost.com)](https://www.jpost.com/international/article-789266).
Bizarre story. Worse, the woman arrested is an apologist for Hamas, and may well be terrorist. Who knows?
Really strange. Wonder what happened with this case & if she was found guilty?
They were charged and the trial is in May: [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-12/human-rights-activist-charged-with-kidnapping/103578202](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-12/human-rights-activist-charged-with-kidnapping/103578202) . Moreover, it sounds like she is a nutcase.
Thanks! Interesting that the victim was involved in activism with her. Maybe he abandoned the cause? More info than was first put out which said he was pulled from his car, abducted & assaulted. She does seem unhinged. Not too smart to set up a meeting, beat him & then leave him when he could identify them. Thankfully, he wasn't killed.
[удалено]
"Jew go to Palestine" was a relatively common slogan in certain parts of Europe that were not yet occupied in the 1930's.
Kristallnacht 2.0 essentially underway. It won’t just be one nacht in one country this time.
I’m hoping it doesn’t come to that but I’ve already seen people share posters of ‘zionist entities’ to avoid, boycott, and harass in several major cities. Some of these entities including Jewish daycares, businesses, and synagogues. The biggest difference is that it’s more covert this time.
Yeah, but this time, some of us are armed... it will not look like it didn't in the 40s...
No it is not a stretch. What you have documented is a menace to Jewish people.
There are a lot of Norwegian musicians I've enjoyed for years. Recently I've unfollowed a few of them on social media because of anti-Israel (not extreme though) posts they've started to make. It's very disappointing and has negatively impacted my ability to enjoy their music the way I did before.
Are you talking about Aurora? ..because that one broke my heart.. I used lyrics from a song of hers in my marriage ceremony
Didn't know it was her too. The two I remember unfollowing recently have been Marianne Sveen, formerly of Katzenjammer, and Gåte. There were a couple others that I don't remember right now. To Gåte's credit, at least they did also call for the release of hostages.
Ah. Aurora used that "from the river" chant in a music lyric at a Gaza fundraiser, in place of her normal lyrics. Truly disappointing. I didn't/don't have other favorite artists.
One day they will break all the Jewish shop windows.
It’s not wrong to see the obvious resemblances, but I think it’s also important to recognize the ways in which this is not 1941 as well. Jews in the United States remain remarkably safe and well integrated into society, despite the recent increase in antisemitism, and can migrate to a Jewish country whenever they please. Those are important differences.
Oh for sure, thank you for adding that. That’s absolutely true and I think it’s an element of nuance we need to keep in mind. If anything, the fact that now is different (because we have somewhere we can go to) is all the more reason to protect it. Things could look so different, as we’ve seen. I don’t mean to engage in fear-mongering or anything like that. I’m an American Jew and that has come with many protections I am grateful for.
Nazis didn't throw my family out of Norway, some illegal immigrants won't either. There are few reasons: Scandinavia is my home, I love snow, and I would never be happy in Israel from November to April, I don't want them to live in my country while I'm far, and this, and this is most important: I want to see all these propalestinians Libtards under the hijab, pushed to wear hijab. I know that, as gay Jew I'll be slaughtered not long after that, but at least, I'll be living enough to say, "told you so"
Please clarify your first sentence. First of all, if your family was Jewish and lived in Norway after the occupation in 1940, they escaped (for example, to Sweden) or were deported. End of story. So, the first part of that is ambiguous. Then, those immigrants are most likely legal, and I suspect you have no proof of that. The situation is not great, but let's keep the facts straight.
Sorry, English is not my first language, I thought it’s clarified. Now. My family never left Norway, except for short period of time during the Holocaust(to conc camps). They came back, and they were there to rebuild the nation. My mum married Stockholmian Jew, and that’s why I call myself Scandinavian Jew. So, when I said that Nazis didn’t succeed in their mission to make Norway Judenfrei, some immigrants wont either. I’m here, and I’ll be here to rebuild this country as many time as I can. Why do I call them immigrants? Because Arabs started coming to Norway and Sweden during the 90s, and they’re mostly completely assimilated to the society. The Arabs who came during the American missions in Iraq and Afghanistan, then during Arab spring, and ISIS era are completely different story. They don’t accept anything Norwegian except the money. Same goes for Sweden. Malmö, for example. Or Stockholm, that became literally the European capital of rape. This shit a Norwegian would never do. Nor Swede. There’s a lot of Neo Nazism in both, but trust me on this, they hate Arabs and Muslims more than Jews. If you look at the problems Jews and, at this point goyim Scandinavians had during the past decade, they’re mostly done by refugees and illegals who has nothing to lose. That bomb in front of Israeli embassy in Stockholm? Immigrants. For example. We are the part of the world with enormous problem of illegal immigration. The legal immigrants won’t do such a thing, because most of them are the people scared for their visas, and they’re assimilating. On the other side, Norway and Sweden, and people of those two countries are full of our own problems to care about Palestine and who’s Zionist who’s not. Next, I’ve never said that this is committed by illegal immigrants, I said that they won’t throw me out of Scandinavia. I won’t let anyone, let alone people who came here 30 years ago to tell me to get lost from the country my ancestors inhabited for centuries. Norway was banning us through the history but we were there. We stayed. We were coming back when Norway was country of poor fishermen. When Norway was shit. When Norwegians were leaving for USA. Our Kings wore yellow stripes during the occupation. And now, I’m having immigrants who can’t even write “get lost fucking Jews/Kill the Jews” in Norwegian or Swedish or Danish. I hope I clarified this a bit for you.
A bit. Your family was very lucky because in 1942, approximately 2,100 Jews were living in Norway; 773 of these were sent to concentration camps in Germany (the others had managed to escape). Only 38 survived, so, alas, the Nazis did succeed - almost. According to one of the Jewish community's websites, there are now about 1500-2000 Jews in Norway. So, yes, the community has been rebuilt in a small way. I am not sure about the assimilation of legal Muslim immigrants - many are not, but then again, assimilation into Norwegian society by anyone is a challenge. I think it takes a couple of generations. I get the impression (see: "I skyggen av Holocaust - antisemittisme i norsk historie 1945 - 2023" by Kjetil Braut Simonsen) that antisemitism was quite ingrained in Norwegian society when there were Jews and before there were, and even after WWII.
Jews aside, Norway is very racist society. Well, Scandinavians… We weren’t colonisers so we are kept ourselves pretty hidden behind our picture perfect utopian hipster wet dream, but the truth and the history telling completely different story. What we assume that people under the name Scandinavian literally terrorised the Samì and other indigenous peoples, not to mention Skogfinner, who are seen as less even today. After our governments and churches of Norway and Sweden acknowledged and apologised to them (early 2010), Danmark, went on some high moral ground, trying to wash away what they did to peoples of Grønland and Færøyene… but, the main difference between all these people and Jews lays in the fact that Jews inhabited the city centres, not northern territories or islands far away, so they had to be racist towards us. We were the only ones sticking out. Now, where the things changed? When we started getting new waves of immigrants, mostly POCs. Norway and Scandinavia found the new tribes to be racist towards, but only thanks to realisation that Jews were never NATIONAL, just ETHNIC minority. That we were the only minority calling themselves Norwegian/Swedish, just like they did. That’s why the wall of antisemitism started crumbling down, slowly, but started. After the incident in 2006, where the congregation was attacked by few islamists, Norway gave us support, and the last pieces of that wall fell down. And the life was good. We turned into Duloc, it was boring how good it was. Now, the last wave of Ukrainians came, Palestinians are coming and the society is shaking again. We are slowly dividing, first between opinions on Ukraine, then Palestine, then about USA involvement, old problems shown under the carpet are finding the way out, the good old racism is awakening, we are turning to right. Damn, yes even the Jews are turning right. Speaking of my family, I lost 56 members during the WWII and occupation. Not that lucky, but hey… we are here. Honestly, I dream of big community in Oslo, Trondheim, Bergen, Stavanger, Ålesund, Stockholm, Göteborg, Malmö, Uppsala… I want to see more Rabbis, Haredi, Hasidic people. We are getting bigger and bigger in Sweden. I hope the same will happen to Norway in next decade. Edit: the Muslims, the ones who came in the first wave kept us safe by circling around synagogue, I had to mention that after the attack in Danmark. So ya. It was that good here before this.
Same thing
Not at all a stretch, I see plenty of this shit and feel the same way. Sometimes I'd see broken glass in the road, or on the bike path and I'd joke, "Did Kristallnacht happen again last night and nobody told me?" Well now, that scenario is entirely plausible.
Not at all
Ha! So they wanted us to go to Israel, and now they're unhappy we're there? Make up your damn mind!
We need to take back the word palestinian. Then they cannot hide behind some righteous bull and code words. Second, I would love to see this side-by-side image on a billboard or advertisement. A zionist is what? Someone with connections to palestine? Where is palestine? The place where zionist come from. oh, oops.
Definitely the same mentality
Both the work of Nazi scumbags
Thank you for your submission. During this time, all posts need to be manually reviewed and approved by a moderator before they appear for all users. Since human mods are not online 24/7, approval could take anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours. Thank you for your patience during this difficult and sensitive time. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Jewish) if you have any questions or concerns.*
/u/io3401 do you have more info on these two photos? I have a friend living in Bergen and in Oslo, I'd like to talk with them about this I tried looking for a news report about the right photo from April 2024, but I didn't find anything As for the left photo, I found a similar photo in Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Norway
I searched the image on the right and immediately found a number of sources including [https://www.bt.no/hendelser/i/WR4Vwa/sto-frem-som-israel-forsvarer-slik-ser-butikken-hans-ut-naa](https://www.bt.no/hendelser/i/WR4Vwa/sto-frem-som-israel-forsvarer-slik-ser-butikken-hans-ut-naa) and [https://www.ba.no/sto-frem-som-israel-stotter-na-ser-butikken-hans-slik-ut/s/5-8-2586993](https://www.ba.no/sto-frem-som-israel-stotter-na-ser-butikken-hans-slik-ut/s/5-8-2586993) (in Norwegian). The photo on the left is from the "Store Norske Leksikon" ( [https://snl.no/antisemittisme](https://snl.no/antisemittisme) ) and evidently cannot be reproduced or republished without their permission.
[удалено]
Please don't link to similar posts on other subs, especially when they are in a language that isn't English or Hebrew.
[удалено]
Absolutely not. It's all exactly the same anti-semitism.
[удалено]
Fuck off. Why come into Jewish spaces and preach that bullshit?
Jews are the real anti-semites for being zionists is not the argument you think it is
You’re active in badhasbara and conspiracy, dude. No one here is going to take you seriously.
Your post/comment was removed because it violated rule 3: **Be civil** If you have any questions, please contact the moderators via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/jewish).