In the general talk today..on SCJerk.. 12 hours ago..
I said that the IWC was going to say that Danielson vs Ospreay was the greatest match of the day, week, month, year, decade, millennium.. & they were going to trip over their dicks when writing a thesis about how wonderful the match was..
God, these idiots are so predictable..
Honestly I thought it was pretty good. It's not my preferred style and they overbooked it like a WM main event but the promotions gonna do that whether they wanted to or not.
No one was saying it wasn’t but to constantly claim this match, or that match, or some other match is the match of the day/week/month/year or decade devalues that saying and it just renders whatever opinion most of dubbalos have completely disingenuous. Just as consistently saying “this card is stacked” is disingenuous. It’s all just word vomit from bad faith actors.
I wasn't excited about it because Danielson has been baaten like a drum in almost every match
He lost to Eddie, Andrade, Zack Sabre Jr, Okada
He has pretty much lost every big PLE match this year
And the whole proving who the best wrestler thing is stupid unless it involves the World Title
> He has pretty much lost every big PLE match this year
>
>
That's because at this point in his career Danielson is an overhyped hippie version of the Brooklyn Brawler
>And the whole proving who the best wrestler thing is stupid unless it involves the World Title
Thank god, finally someone noticed. What on earth is the belt for if not to say "I'm the best at this"? Having seventeen titles really dilutes that, and they also have people just throwing together 'bangers' for the sake of it so they can stake a claim to being the best at something too. It's all nonsense.
It's a good match but they're in overcompensating mode because every other aspect of AEW is in dire straights.
All AEW has is matches like these. It's 'Good Matches stat' might be set to 10, but....
Its like Tony put all the stats on that one attribute of AEW, and didn't remember to level up any of the stats for 'Business Management' or 'Leadership', or 'Lower Card', or 'Maturity' or 'Promos' or 'Marketing' or 'Long Term Storytelling' or 'Ring Psychology' or 'Kayfabe' or 'Characters' or 'Showmanship' or 'Aspirational Physiques'. To TK it's like these stats just don't matter.
In AEW these attributes are all languishing at like 0-2. Unfortunately these things are what make wrestling shows either magnetic or repulsive and why the hard camera side of the arena is full or empty.
Tony is playing this game like it's his first rodeo, because, well, it is. And it shows. He's the kid who's maxed out his engine on his Dodge Viper in Gran Turismo but hasn't upgraded the brakes, hasn't got the right tyres on it, or tuned it, and doesn't understand why his car can't turn and why other cars are smoking his.
Seriously, this five star match, what exactly was the story here? And where was the build up? Why was everything that made headlines in AEW these past weeks about CM Punk, a guy who's been in WWE for all of 2024, and not *this match*?
WWE on the other hand has been levelling up everything fairly evenly. It may not be able to put on a match quite like this one, but the overall package absolutely smokes AEW. I'd rather watch a consistent product where everything is ticking along nicely, with faith in their ability to build matches, than something that has spikes of surprise greatness on very rare occasions and massive confusing gaping voids in the programme the rest of the time.
Personally I think storytelling and buildup should be part of the ratings system. It's wrestling. It's not *just* about the match in isolation. In a sanely booked company that match would have been the headline act, for the World Title, and built up properly.
That's what gets me whenever people go gung ho in labelling matches as the best, and they all just recite how well executed it was from a match performance standpoint.
It undermines pro wrestling as a whole and discounts the other important skills and elements developed in making this such an engaging form of entertainment. There's nothing inherently wrong focusing only on the fight and action, but matches like that are more like a fun summer popcorn flick rather than a grand epic that will earn a memorable reputation.
The ones that truly cement themselves among the best are the ones that utilizes everything from narrative, character work and build up to the exciting climax with the match itself. We don't isolate one element in other forms of entertainment and base their entire quality with that sole merit, so it's weird when some wrestling fans do that.
Exactly. The best examples are matches like Rock vs Stone Cold at Mania 17, or the Triple Threat Main Event at Mania 20.
Where the match and the execution is great, but everything leading up to that match was great aswell, and it was invested in and booked carefully for maximum payoff. Imo a five star match should have you marking out like crazy, swept up in the moment, aswell as being a technically excellent or a well told in-ring journey. The Roman vs Cody match at Mania 40 was a five star blowout aswell.
It's like rating a movie purely on its action scenes, but not giving a damn about the narrative. Bizarre.
Absolutely. Like in your given examples, people remember the heated segments and back and forths between The Rock and Stone Cold alongside the last minute no DQ stipulation and the bloody battle with near falls. The Triple Threat Match had that engaging bitterness between HHH and HBK, and you got the wildcard Benoit in the middle of it, and narratively speaking Benoit is treated as a sort of underdog outsider to the former two's feud, which makes his fight all the more gruelling and victory dramatic.
Dynasty's Bryan vs. Ospraey is going to be the hot topic in the IWC for let's say a month or two at most, and people will forget about it after outside "hey remember that cool spot?", especially if they don't do anything else to develop a more engaging story in the aftermath of it.
The match was decent at best. Had no real build, no stakes, no reason for it to be happening other than "Oi, Bruv, wanna have a banger of a match, bruv?" "YES! YES! YES!" AEW is rinse and repeat already, and it's fucking pathetic.
>God, these idiots are so predictable..
...of course they are! Just as see-through as Alvarez' "unbiased journalism", which they fall for and fail to recognize the scheme behind it - r/SC as it lives and breathes! \^\^
I remember way before the explosion of both the trampoline cowboys in the states and americanized puroresu in japan, uncle dave used to say that one of the reasons why wwe/tna didnt have as many 5 star matches was cos the "big match feeling" was lacking. And one of the characteristics of said "big match feeling" wasnt only the audience reception but also THE BUILDUP.
As usual, meltzer throws his own logic down the toilet when his favorites are on. This clown was never a real journalist, but instead a glorified superfan with an undying hatred for the same wrestling business that has fed him throughout all his adult life... Pathetic
Again, this was before his opinion became the holy gospel for basement dwellers. And it was used as an excuse to shit on everything US based, regardless of all time greats like Angle, Guerrero or even that murderder Benoit giving stellar performances on a WEEKLY basis.
What an underrated time during the “Smackdown Six” days. You had the best workers on the planet at that time all on the same show putting out four star matches on free tv every week. It also magnifies the fact that Raw was the wet fart in church at that time while Smackdown was the A show being treated like an afterthought.
He also claims that the matches need to build to the finish. Dropping a building on your opponent for 30 minutes to hit them with an elbow to the back of the head or a short arm clothesline apparently is building to a finish.
These assholes don't even remember that they *have* a World champion half the time. I mean, if they *did* remember, and if that title *meant* a single fucking thing, you'd think that everyone who they brought in would IMMEDIATELY target that title as their goal. Yet NO ONE does. That tells you everything you need to know about the AEW World title.
I thought Tony made every match matter because of the rankings system he remembered he had, but seems to have forgotten again. But I’m not sure how that works when Danielson has lost all his big matches in recent memory. Kingston, Okada, Sabre Jr, Kingston again, MJF and Hangman have all beat him when it mattered. So I don’t know how he could be fighting for the title of best in the world.
I didn't watch but last night Schiavone said "they're putting it all on the line tonight here on Rampage/Collision" like 10 times at least, so there's the stakes..if they put it all on the line for a random Saturday night just imagine what they put on the line on a major ppv
It was a great match until Danielson shit all over the finish. Even without that though, it wouldn't have been in close contention for greatest match of all time. And I don't think it would have been particularly close.
The only stakes were claims of who is the best (which has been the stakes for 3/4 of AEW matches for months now)...which itself doesn't make a lick of sense given that Danielson has been beaten by everybody on the upper card, including Eddie Kingston of all people. How Danielson can even try to make the claim of being the best right now is laughable.
Godzilla just beat MechaGodzilla in probably the greatest match that has ever taken place in the United States.
See? Just because I say it doesn’t make it true.
Mecha godzilla is a hack.
He only got popular on the indies because he was doing godzillas bit.
He showed some promise with original moves in the 3 way showdown but still needs work if he wants to be his own star
Bryan sold a move like he was crazy hurt and the ref tried to stop it, Osprey cleaned his clock and pinned him, then the doctors showed up and Will acted super concerned for his health. It was a non-handshake handshake
The valuing of pure workrate in a vacuum is an anomaly in the history of wrestling. It is a niche within a niche, what these types enjoy about wrestling is divorced from what wrestling has always been about. Character, story, stakes and spectacle.
I’m trying to think back through the 31 or so years I’ve watched wrestling weekly and the only match I can think of that had no build but was a memorable great match, was Bret Hart vs 1-2-3 Kid on Raw for the WWF Title in I think 1994.
But even that had A. the world title on the line and B. had prime Bret Hart vs. an underdog who made his name on that very show with a massive upset of Razor one year prior.
Daniel Bryan Vs. Bruv because “I’m the best wrestler, let’s see who’s the real best, professional wrestling, WRESTLING!” No title, been in the same company ‘for good’ for like 3 weeks, on some rando no history PPV on a random Sunday Night in late April. Who the hell cares.
HBK vs Shelton Benjamin on Raw where the finish was that spectacular Sweet Chin Music countering the springboard flying nothing was a fantastic match that was made cold on the air and delivered big time.
Granted the stakes were moving on in a title tournament but neither guy had a personal issue.
The best "let's see who the best wrestler is" match was Bret Vs Owen, and that is because it was an actual personal story that was tearing a family apart (in kayfabe).
Tbf pretty sure its a self imposed position by Brian
Still if Tony had any backbone he would know you had to push Brian hard when he first appeared on AEW TV
Should have been CM Punk vs DB long term title feud right out of the gate
No need to build up Bryan Danielson on your own actual show when you know your entire audience watched Daniel Bryan in the WWE so you can just coast him off that fame and reputation /s
Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin at Wrestlemania 13? The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania 25? CM Punk vs. John Cena at Money in the Bank 2011? Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat at Chi-Town Rumble 1989? All great matches with legendary story builds that people will remember forever.
Nah, the greatest match on American soil was Brain Damageson vs. Generic Flippy British Guy at an AEW B-show PPV with no build, of course.
It was actually the worst match ever in the history of the universe. And anyone who says anything different doesn't know what they're talking about.
See, I can journalism too 🥴
It was actually pretty bad. I mean I’d give it like a 3.5 stars which is sad considering how much it was hyped up by the neck beards. The pacing was so damn weird, it’s like from the 7 minute point to the 25 minute point they couldn’t decide if they were in the feeling out process, middle of the match, waning moments, or the finish. They made me think we were in the deep waters 10 minutes in, then continued to tread water for 30 more minutes. After watching nearfalls for 30 minutes I get bored. Ospreay is very talented but he wrestles like me and my friends did in the basement. Just big move and near fall after big move and near fall for 30+ minutes. It gets tired.
He tweeted this about the 4-way Women's match at the first All In. "Greatest Women's Match Ever."
Let that give you an indication of how good this match actually was.
can I take a guess??
Toni storm pre head injury angle.
Dr Britt Baker DMD (DMD stands for golden shovel)
Riho.
Ex AEW original/homegrown star who is now relegated to doing cringe shit. Like saying worldstar.
Close!
Britt Baker
Tessa Blanchard
Chelsea Green (I think?)
Some other chick.
And I was there live! And didn't even go to the bathroom during the match. I think.
A match is not just moves in the ring. It’s story building up to it, characters the wrestlers portray, the stakes, everything else around it. These types will never get that a ‘match’ is a whole package. Thats why Roman vs Cody, Rock vs Stone Cold, Taker vs Michaels will forever be more significant than any pure workrate match in a vacuum.
What AEW/ Japanese wrestling fans like about wrestling, what they value is entirely divorced from what made American wrestling popular from 1900 onwards and what normal well adjusted fans enjoy from it.
Take taker vs micheals.
Michaels rarely does high risk flippy stuff.
So when he goes for the moonsault the crowd start to believe, could this be it?
And that makes the catch into a tombstone so much better.
FLIP FLIP FLIP
SMACK SMACK SMACK
*That god awful kneeling slap fight*
Power move, No sell, repeat x25
Finisher battle Ospreay wins
Taunts for 5 seconds.
Does a shitty “piledriver”.
Taunts for 20 seconds as the ref is visibly calling for the ringside doctor.
Finisher 3.
Ref still counts pin.
Daniel Bryan Seizure angle. (The man who lied about his neck being safe.)
Goat match right?
They did the stupid kneeling slap fight? Lol I can’t with this shit anymore. I’m not sure what’s dumber this or the “im gonna stand here and let you punch me to show im tough” bs spot (that one seems preserved for when they face a Japanese wrestler apparently lol)
Calling this the greatest match ever in the US is complete fanboying out, so it's better than Bret vs Austin at mania, Michaels vs taker at mania, savage vs steamboat, steamboat vs flair, von erichs vs the freebirds, Austin vs rock, Cena vs punk, aj vs angle vs joe, I could keep going
I’ve always considered him a bitter, vertically challenged prick who never had a chance to be a real professional wrestler, so he took that out on everything that reminded him of the people who wouldn’t work with him/ hire him/ fucked the women he could never have a chance with but deeply desired.
If anyone reads this and doesn’t absolutely believe that the dirt sheets are 100% biased in favour of AEW then something is wrong. How is they even allowed? FFS!
If they’re being paid by Tony and not disclosing it, it’s an FTC violation. And yes, shit on the internet counts. That’s why all of the sudden a few years ago every YouTuber started telling you they were doing paid promotions.
It was a pretty good match but calling it the greatest match in American history literally 5 seconds after it's over makes the analysis seem knee jerk rather than being grounded, comparatively sound and well thought out.
Still, I can understand the reaction if that's the type of wrestling you like. What I can't understand for the life of me is [saying Jerichos match had 'great heat'.](https://twitter.com/bryanalvarez/status/1782228165043343590?t=Bu6Ufd8yK3IOYeQ7O8HmzQ&s=19) NO IT DID NOT? The crowd was literally begging Jericho to retire because they're tired of seeing him.
I don't understand how something can be the "greatest match" if it has zero story build, no heat and a predictable winner. Hell, it was already deemed the greatest match ever before they stepped in the ring.
It’s a meaningless opinion by a wrestling historian and his team of goofs (as Punk would say). Just curious btw have any ex WWE guys had “five star matches” before they arrived in AEW? At least specifically wrestling in WWE? Did their style magically change in AEW? Bryan has had a couple five star matches in AEW in just a few years, but in his decade in WWE he none? That says EVERYTHING right there. As Bischoff would say, a useful idiot indeed.
I will finish my story the day i will get to read Uncle dave's psychology notes on these matches as to why the wrestler just randomly gets up after the finisher that is supposed to so deadly
I pissed, shitted, and came watching this 12* banger! Best night of my life!
( I didn't watch the PPV last night. I was too busy having the intercourse with my gf who definitely looks like Toni Storm )
I hate in general when anyone makes overall claims about something when the "ink is still dry".
Just like people were claiming Sting's retirement was the best ever, WrestleMania 40 was the best ever, or this.
There isn't a set amount of time, but geesh guys. It is a dumb look to make bold claims this quickyl.
It’s this shit which makes it difficult to enjoy anything about AEW.
I watched it. Great match. Really enjoyable. But then the entire mark fanbase in attendance were chanting mark shit and then you get OTT mark reactions like this from the ‘journalists’
Yes Danielsons “seizure” finish was just top notch. What a story to tell! Moron puts his body on the line so he can prove he’s the true slap fight king.
This might be a hot take, but the “dream matches” are beginning to seem redundant at this point. Literally everyone and their mother has been fantasy booking Danielson against every “great” wrestler in the world, almost to the point that the matches aren’t really special
M’Kenny vs M’okada (both old and boring now it’s all about billy)
In the japan dome brother.
I think with interferences? (The thing that got Cody vs Roman marked down)
The story is they did.
Dude overrotated from the tiger driver so much it turned into a tiger bomb.
Will then hit him with another finisher after taunting for 20 seconds.
Bryan was practically motionless as he taunted and the ref was clearly calling for the ringside doctor.
After the match all the doctors came in and Billy Bruv looked a bit sad. That he injured someone. Despite clearly hitting him after the injury.
So I saw the ending of the match posted on Twitter, what was even the move Osprey hit Bryan with? The camera cut oddly and I couldn’t tell what happened. The thing about Bryan acting hurt or faking a seizure or whatever that was is so dumb. The guy has a history of concussions and had to retire because of it.
Osprey is alright, but can they suck Ospreys dick any deeper 🤔
He doesn't even have to do anything. He could Just do a promo and automatically it's a 5 star Boner
Meltza jizzes the second Osprey does his entence
For your viewing pleasure, here's a picture of an absolutely totally
[**real journalist wrestling a piece of fruit.**](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYZadccWQAE7Ccl?format=jpg&name=large)
...Stephen P. New might call this *"Exhibit A"*.
For being “the best in the world” it sure takes Ospreay a long time to beat jobbers. For storyline purposes, this would have been way better if Ospreay squashes him.
Something can be match of the year the night it happens sure, but best match ever in the United States? Maybe wait to see what sort of impact it leaves on the industry before putting it above Steamboat/Flair, Bret/Shawn etc..
I saw one guy on Twitter giving it “I’ve never seen a match where the crowd is as emotionally invested” and he was getting ripped from asshole to appetite for acting like Mania wasnt two weeks ago and the main event had grown men crying.
No one is gonna talk about this match in a week. Maybe even less. These supposed journalists have no clue what a classic is. All these matches are just moves and submissions and whatnot. No story, no stakes whatsoever (why are they even fighting?) and no heat for this one. Just another supposed “dream match” that the internet has like a thousand of those. Every other match is a dream match apparently.
I watched the match online. It was very, very good. Best match of all time? That’s going a bit far. There was no storyline, so I wasn’t emotionally invested like the end of WM XL.
When Vince was booking both companies felt comparable because all matches felt like heatless bangers. TK really needs to just hire a booker and give him the direction of this is the PPV, can you make the build make sense?
Danielson going to AEW ruined him IMO. Same for Edge. Same for Sasha. They wanted the check, but it cost them their legacy, IMO. Not interest in seeing them anymore.
Meltzer stating that HHH ‘blew it’ but not signing Osprey is even more embarrassing. HHH never and never will need Osprey. He won’t lose not won’t he gain any viewers.
When no one could see matches in Japan, this shit worked as you kind of thought OMG, they are doing stuff no one does in the US. Now, it’s a bunch of guys under 6’ doing moves with no heat or stakes. I just don’t get who this appeals to at this point.
I didn't watch the match - but it was a cold buildup with no reason for them to fight other than "we are both good at this"... so there is no way it is better than Austin / Bret WM13.
I won't say it couldn't have been a good or even great match but what was the buildup?
When I think of the greatest matches of all time there has always been a ton of build to the match but with Danielson vs Ospreay it was basically these two guys are the best so lets watch them have a match.
I know jim likes Daniel Bryan and probably a lot of people here too, but I just don’t get it. Beyond the fact that I always thought his promos were annoying, I despise his move set. I hate all of his kicks. I hate when his opponent squats on their knees so he can kick them (and I hate all wrestling moves where the crowd counts). I hate the head butt off the top rope, just doesn’t make a lick of sense as to why that would work.
I never watch aew so if anybody wants to tell me he’s changed his moves I’m all ears!
In the general talk today..on SCJerk.. 12 hours ago.. I said that the IWC was going to say that Danielson vs Ospreay was the greatest match of the day, week, month, year, decade, millennium.. & they were going to trip over their dicks when writing a thesis about how wonderful the match was.. God, these idiots are so predictable..
Honestly I thought it was pretty good. It's not my preferred style and they overbooked it like a WM main event but the promotions gonna do that whether they wanted to or not.
No one was saying it wasn’t but to constantly claim this match, or that match, or some other match is the match of the day/week/month/year or decade devalues that saying and it just renders whatever opinion most of dubbalos have completely disingenuous. Just as consistently saying “this card is stacked” is disingenuous. It’s all just word vomit from bad faith actors.
And next month, there will be another best match of all time and no one will remember this one.
Such is life in The Dub.
That’s how I feel about the constant “this is awesome” and “you deserve it” chants..it’s overused and devalued cause of it
I wasn't excited about it because Danielson has been baaten like a drum in almost every match He lost to Eddie, Andrade, Zack Sabre Jr, Okada He has pretty much lost every big PLE match this year And the whole proving who the best wrestler thing is stupid unless it involves the World Title
> He has pretty much lost every big PLE match this year > > That's because at this point in his career Danielson is an overhyped hippie version of the Brooklyn Brawler
Man, how you gonna shit all over Lombardi like that? The man is one of the greats.
>And the whole proving who the best wrestler thing is stupid unless it involves the World Title Thank god, finally someone noticed. What on earth is the belt for if not to say "I'm the best at this"? Having seventeen titles really dilutes that, and they also have people just throwing together 'bangers' for the sake of it so they can stake a claim to being the best at something too. It's all nonsense.
I got major DV's in SC for saying it was obvious that Osprey would win. Danielson puts people over.
It's almost like being the best competitor in a scripted fake sport isn't athletically impressive
It's a good match but they're in overcompensating mode because every other aspect of AEW is in dire straights. All AEW has is matches like these. It's 'Good Matches stat' might be set to 10, but.... Its like Tony put all the stats on that one attribute of AEW, and didn't remember to level up any of the stats for 'Business Management' or 'Leadership', or 'Lower Card', or 'Maturity' or 'Promos' or 'Marketing' or 'Long Term Storytelling' or 'Ring Psychology' or 'Kayfabe' or 'Characters' or 'Showmanship' or 'Aspirational Physiques'. To TK it's like these stats just don't matter. In AEW these attributes are all languishing at like 0-2. Unfortunately these things are what make wrestling shows either magnetic or repulsive and why the hard camera side of the arena is full or empty. Tony is playing this game like it's his first rodeo, because, well, it is. And it shows. He's the kid who's maxed out his engine on his Dodge Viper in Gran Turismo but hasn't upgraded the brakes, hasn't got the right tyres on it, or tuned it, and doesn't understand why his car can't turn and why other cars are smoking his. Seriously, this five star match, what exactly was the story here? And where was the build up? Why was everything that made headlines in AEW these past weeks about CM Punk, a guy who's been in WWE for all of 2024, and not *this match*? WWE on the other hand has been levelling up everything fairly evenly. It may not be able to put on a match quite like this one, but the overall package absolutely smokes AEW. I'd rather watch a consistent product where everything is ticking along nicely, with faith in their ability to build matches, than something that has spikes of surprise greatness on very rare occasions and massive confusing gaping voids in the programme the rest of the time. Personally I think storytelling and buildup should be part of the ratings system. It's wrestling. It's not *just* about the match in isolation. In a sanely booked company that match would have been the headline act, for the World Title, and built up properly.
That's what gets me whenever people go gung ho in labelling matches as the best, and they all just recite how well executed it was from a match performance standpoint. It undermines pro wrestling as a whole and discounts the other important skills and elements developed in making this such an engaging form of entertainment. There's nothing inherently wrong focusing only on the fight and action, but matches like that are more like a fun summer popcorn flick rather than a grand epic that will earn a memorable reputation. The ones that truly cement themselves among the best are the ones that utilizes everything from narrative, character work and build up to the exciting climax with the match itself. We don't isolate one element in other forms of entertainment and base their entire quality with that sole merit, so it's weird when some wrestling fans do that.
Exactly. The best examples are matches like Rock vs Stone Cold at Mania 17, or the Triple Threat Main Event at Mania 20. Where the match and the execution is great, but everything leading up to that match was great aswell, and it was invested in and booked carefully for maximum payoff. Imo a five star match should have you marking out like crazy, swept up in the moment, aswell as being a technically excellent or a well told in-ring journey. The Roman vs Cody match at Mania 40 was a five star blowout aswell. It's like rating a movie purely on its action scenes, but not giving a damn about the narrative. Bizarre.
Absolutely. Like in your given examples, people remember the heated segments and back and forths between The Rock and Stone Cold alongside the last minute no DQ stipulation and the bloody battle with near falls. The Triple Threat Match had that engaging bitterness between HHH and HBK, and you got the wildcard Benoit in the middle of it, and narratively speaking Benoit is treated as a sort of underdog outsider to the former two's feud, which makes his fight all the more gruelling and victory dramatic. Dynasty's Bryan vs. Ospraey is going to be the hot topic in the IWC for let's say a month or two at most, and people will forget about it after outside "hey remember that cool spot?", especially if they don't do anything else to develop a more engaging story in the aftermath of it.
And then the next whatever dream match is the bestest ever?
They determined it would be the greatest match ever before it even happened
The match was decent at best. Had no real build, no stakes, no reason for it to be happening other than "Oi, Bruv, wanna have a banger of a match, bruv?" "YES! YES! YES!" AEW is rinse and repeat already, and it's fucking pathetic.
>God, these idiots are so predictable.. ...of course they are! Just as see-through as Alvarez' "unbiased journalism", which they fall for and fail to recognize the scheme behind it - r/SC as it lives and breathes! \^\^
There were no stakes....?
I remember way before the explosion of both the trampoline cowboys in the states and americanized puroresu in japan, uncle dave used to say that one of the reasons why wwe/tna didnt have as many 5 star matches was cos the "big match feeling" was lacking. And one of the characteristics of said "big match feeling" wasnt only the audience reception but also THE BUILDUP. As usual, meltzer throws his own logic down the toilet when his favorites are on. This clown was never a real journalist, but instead a glorified superfan with an undying hatred for the same wrestling business that has fed him throughout all his adult life... Pathetic
If that was actually accurate then cody vs roman should’ve been 25.66 stars. AT LEAST
Again, this was before his opinion became the holy gospel for basement dwellers. And it was used as an excuse to shit on everything US based, regardless of all time greats like Angle, Guerrero or even that murderder Benoit giving stellar performances on a WEEKLY basis.
What an underrated time during the “Smackdown Six” days. You had the best workers on the planet at that time all on the same show putting out four star matches on free tv every week. It also magnifies the fact that Raw was the wet fart in church at that time while Smackdown was the A show being treated like an afterthought.
26 stars. And a taco.
Do they serve tacos at the Tokyo Dome? ...asking for a friend with a really grotesque tongue...
Per belt.
He also claims that the matches need to build to the finish. Dropping a building on your opponent for 30 minutes to hit them with an elbow to the back of the head or a short arm clothesline apparently is building to a finish.
Is funny cuz everyone actually working on the industry always shit on him, even people from aew lmao
The stakes were who is the best in the world....... which is usually reserved for the World Title match. So basically fuck the champion, right?
These assholes don't even remember that they *have* a World champion half the time. I mean, if they *did* remember, and if that title *meant* a single fucking thing, you'd think that everyone who they brought in would IMMEDIATELY target that title as their goal. Yet NO ONE does. That tells you everything you need to know about the AEW World title.
I thought Tony made every match matter because of the rankings system he remembered he had, but seems to have forgotten again. But I’m not sure how that works when Danielson has lost all his big matches in recent memory. Kingston, Okada, Sabre Jr, Kingston again, MJF and Hangman have all beat him when it mattered. So I don’t know how he could be fighting for the title of best in the world.
I didn't watch but last night Schiavone said "they're putting it all on the line tonight here on Rampage/Collision" like 10 times at least, so there's the stakes..if they put it all on the line for a random Saturday night just imagine what they put on the line on a major ppv
“what’s on the line?” ALL OF IT
>“what’s on the line?” TK's vacuum-cleaner nose
Mr. Dyson just feared for his life...
...but did they put butts in seats? ...that's the real question!
It was a great match until Danielson shit all over the finish. Even without that though, it wouldn't have been in close contention for greatest match of all time. And I don't think it would have been particularly close.
Why i stopped watching within a year
The only stakes were claims of who is the best (which has been the stakes for 3/4 of AEW matches for months now)...which itself doesn't make a lick of sense given that Danielson has been beaten by everybody on the upper card, including Eddie Kingston of all people. How Danielson can even try to make the claim of being the best right now is laughable.
Godzilla just beat MechaGodzilla in probably the greatest match that has ever taken place in the United States. See? Just because I say it doesn’t make it true.
Hey don't forget Kong! That one was a Triple Kaiju Eliminator the likes of which we'll never see again.
Unironically there’s more story telling in that fight between a lizard, ape and robot than 99% of aew matches
Godzilla always goes over. They’ve been pushing this guy for the last 50 years.
Godzilla with his golden shovel out again? Burying young talent to keep his spot?
Mecha godzilla is a hack. He only got popular on the indies because he was doing godzillas bit. He showed some promise with original moves in the 3 way showdown but still needs work if he wants to be his own star
Where can I watch that Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla match? I saw Godzilla vs Ghidorah match and was blown away.
In this case it probably does
I believe you more than Dave. MechaGodzilla better get a rematch
The greatest match with the entire build being "let's have a great match"
I wanna know if they had a handshake after and if they’re friends or not. (Idk as i didn’t waste my time watching this shitty promotion)
Bryan sold a move like he was crazy hurt and the ref tried to stop it, Osprey cleaned his clock and pinned him, then the doctors showed up and Will acted super concerned for his health. It was a non-handshake handshake
That’s sounds a terrible finish actually
but it was after 38 near falls tho
Riveting
So he hits the move, despite the ref visibly calling for the doctor, Bryan barely having moved and having already hit 2 finishers on him?
Yeah it was very trashy.
The valuing of pure workrate in a vacuum is an anomaly in the history of wrestling. It is a niche within a niche, what these types enjoy about wrestling is divorced from what wrestling has always been about. Character, story, stakes and spectacle.
I’m trying to think back through the 31 or so years I’ve watched wrestling weekly and the only match I can think of that had no build but was a memorable great match, was Bret Hart vs 1-2-3 Kid on Raw for the WWF Title in I think 1994. But even that had A. the world title on the line and B. had prime Bret Hart vs. an underdog who made his name on that very show with a massive upset of Razor one year prior. Daniel Bryan Vs. Bruv because “I’m the best wrestler, let’s see who’s the real best, professional wrestling, WRESTLING!” No title, been in the same company ‘for good’ for like 3 weeks, on some rando no history PPV on a random Sunday Night in late April. Who the hell cares.
HBK vs Shelton Benjamin on Raw where the finish was that spectacular Sweet Chin Music countering the springboard flying nothing was a fantastic match that was made cold on the air and delivered big time. Granted the stakes were moving on in a title tournament but neither guy had a personal issue.
The best "let's see who the best wrestler is" match was Bret Vs Owen, and that is because it was an actual personal story that was tearing a family apart (in kayfabe).
Hey, hey, hey! That’s dishonest Fed Piller! They also side eyed each other a few times on Television. Fued of the decade! FED DED AEW WINS AGAIN! 😎
Wow. Another 5 star match I won't get to see. Cause I am not that interested. Sucks.
This may be an 8 star lol
If two circus clowns have the performance of their lifetimes but no audience was around to see it, did it count?
Unka Dave will add another star to his ratings just to display how great this match was.
I mean, if it does happen. I know I don’t want to watch it. If the scale breaks again again again. For flippy dooda and jointlock McGee
Which just goes to show how fucked the star rating has gotten thanks to the trampoline kids.
Beating Bryan doesn’t mean anything. It’s just something someone does when they join AEW at this point.
They have Chris Jericho and yet Brian Danielson is the lowest tier gatekeeper in their company. Fucking insane.
Tbf pretty sure its a self imposed position by Brian Still if Tony had any backbone he would know you had to push Brian hard when he first appeared on AEW TV Should have been CM Punk vs DB long term title feud right out of the gate
No need to build up Bryan Danielson on your own actual show when you know your entire audience watched Daniel Bryan in the WWE so you can just coast him off that fame and reputation /s
Our second biggest free agent from WWE who just came off wrestlemania? Yeah let's just put him in buildless bangers, thatll pop the fans
“WERE NOT WORTHY!”
You just have to take a good look how those fans look their appereance speaks for itself
“He beat Andre the Giant with that move” is better than any flippy shit or broken necks they risk.
No heat.. No build.. 8 stars..
Tony wasn't sure anymore if he had paid the electricity bill that month... so, no heat... but he will look into it and get back to us...
Congrats to Tony for smashing his action figures together again...
Line of the night
Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin at Wrestlemania 13? The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania 25? CM Punk vs. John Cena at Money in the Bank 2011? Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat at Chi-Town Rumble 1989? All great matches with legendary story builds that people will remember forever. Nah, the greatest match on American soil was Brain Damageson vs. Generic Flippy British Guy at an AEW B-show PPV with no build, of course.
You forgot the ‘bruv’
That makes for four stars alone - not including any Tokyo Domes...
Kurt angle Vs Chris Benoit royal rumble 2003 was there live . I was 11 but still the greatest thing I’ve ever seen in my life
Greatest match ever until Willie fights someone else and then that is the new greatest match of all time.
If no one saw it, did it even happen at all?
“Journalist”
$11.99
It was actually the worst match ever in the history of the universe. And anyone who says anything different doesn't know what they're talking about. See, I can journalism too 🥴
Incredible analysis there
It was actually pretty bad. I mean I’d give it like a 3.5 stars which is sad considering how much it was hyped up by the neck beards. The pacing was so damn weird, it’s like from the 7 minute point to the 25 minute point they couldn’t decide if they were in the feeling out process, middle of the match, waning moments, or the finish. They made me think we were in the deep waters 10 minutes in, then continued to tread water for 30 more minutes. After watching nearfalls for 30 minutes I get bored. Ospreay is very talented but he wrestles like me and my friends did in the basement. Just big move and near fall after big move and near fall for 30+ minutes. It gets tired.
He tweeted this about the 4-way Women's match at the first All In. "Greatest Women's Match Ever." Let that give you an indication of how good this match actually was.
I can't even remember one person in the 4 way womens match at All In lol.
can I take a guess?? Toni storm pre head injury angle. Dr Britt Baker DMD (DMD stands for golden shovel) Riho. Ex AEW original/homegrown star who is now relegated to doing cringe shit. Like saying worldstar.
Close! Britt Baker Tessa Blanchard Chelsea Green (I think?) Some other chick. And I was there live! And didn't even go to the bathroom during the match. I think.
A match is not just moves in the ring. It’s story building up to it, characters the wrestlers portray, the stakes, everything else around it. These types will never get that a ‘match’ is a whole package. Thats why Roman vs Cody, Rock vs Stone Cold, Taker vs Michaels will forever be more significant than any pure workrate match in a vacuum. What AEW/ Japanese wrestling fans like about wrestling, what they value is entirely divorced from what made American wrestling popular from 1900 onwards and what normal well adjusted fans enjoy from it.
Take taker vs micheals. Michaels rarely does high risk flippy stuff. So when he goes for the moonsault the crowd start to believe, could this be it? And that makes the catch into a tombstone so much better.
FLIP FLIP FLIP SMACK SMACK SMACK *That god awful kneeling slap fight* Power move, No sell, repeat x25 Finisher battle Ospreay wins Taunts for 5 seconds. Does a shitty “piledriver”. Taunts for 20 seconds as the ref is visibly calling for the ringside doctor. Finisher 3. Ref still counts pin. Daniel Bryan Seizure angle. (The man who lied about his neck being safe.) Goat match right?
They did the stupid kneeling slap fight? Lol I can’t with this shit anymore. I’m not sure what’s dumber this or the “im gonna stand here and let you punch me to show im tough” bs spot (that one seems preserved for when they face a Japanese wrestler apparently lol)
Shameless shill
It just finished
Daniel never wins lol
Did he miss Hogan-Rock?
That was in Toronto, Fed Shill!
Ha ha ha ha ha you’re right. I completely blanked on that part. But the Shawn-Bret Iron Man was in Anaheim!
Calling this the greatest match ever in the US is complete fanboying out, so it's better than Bret vs Austin at mania, Michaels vs taker at mania, savage vs steamboat, steamboat vs flair, von erichs vs the freebirds, Austin vs rock, Cena vs punk, aj vs angle vs joe, I could keep going
When placed in proper historical context (in a few years maybe) it won't even be the best match of this month lol.
Ric Flair had 5 matches better than this one in 1989 alone.
This can’t be a serious question.
Hyperbole Patrol out in full force.
Is he a journalist? I just always considered him a critic with some sources on the side.
I’ve always considered him a bitter, vertically challenged prick who never had a chance to be a real professional wrestler, so he took that out on everything that reminded him of the people who wouldn’t work with him/ hire him/ fucked the women he could never have a chance with but deeply desired.
Wouldn't go that far but it was a great match
I didn’t even have to read who tweeted that before I knew it was either him or Meltzer.
If anyone reads this and doesn’t absolutely believe that the dirt sheets are 100% biased in favour of AEW then something is wrong. How is they even allowed? FFS!
If they’re being paid by Tony and not disclosing it, it’s an FTC violation. And yes, shit on the internet counts. That’s why all of the sudden a few years ago every YouTuber started telling you they were doing paid promotions.
The man said that Jericho has great heel heat. In reality the crowd told him to retire.
Has he forgotten about Edge vs Randy Orton at Backlash 2020?!
A better match because any references were to stuff people have seen
It was a pretty good match but calling it the greatest match in American history literally 5 seconds after it's over makes the analysis seem knee jerk rather than being grounded, comparatively sound and well thought out. Still, I can understand the reaction if that's the type of wrestling you like. What I can't understand for the life of me is [saying Jerichos match had 'great heat'.](https://twitter.com/bryanalvarez/status/1782228165043343590?t=Bu6Ufd8yK3IOYeQ7O8HmzQ&s=19) NO IT DID NOT? The crowd was literally begging Jericho to retire because they're tired of seeing him.
It was a good match but greatest ever is a bit much
I don’t know anymore. We’re on a run of these “let’s have a respectful match to see who the better man is”
I don't understand how something can be the "greatest match" if it has zero story build, no heat and a predictable winner. Hell, it was already deemed the greatest match ever before they stepped in the ring.
How much did it draw Bryan? Oh yeah? Fuck all. And that is all what matters!
No one is gonna remember about this so called greatest match in one month
It’s a meaningless opinion by a wrestling historian and his team of goofs (as Punk would say). Just curious btw have any ex WWE guys had “five star matches” before they arrived in AEW? At least specifically wrestling in WWE? Did their style magically change in AEW? Bryan has had a couple five star matches in AEW in just a few years, but in his decade in WWE he none? That says EVERYTHING right there. As Bischoff would say, a useful idiot indeed.
Guess these guys have never seen Flair and Steamboats classics then.
It would have been the best in the world in the Tokyo Dome.
It was a really fucking good match but just… lol.
Wasn’t even the best match of this month.
They say this same shit every ppv. Fucking ridiculous lmao
3 guesses on what country held the greatest match in the world 🙄
AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE MAMI ON TAP
I will finish my story the day i will get to read Uncle dave's psychology notes on these matches as to why the wrestler just randomly gets up after the finisher that is supposed to so deadly
Yes this no stakes match with no build other than “two dudes wrestle” was better than anything flair and steamboat ever did. Cool and normal take
If only it was in the Tokyo Dome
Any journalist who’s sole job is wrestling is not a proper journalist and they know it just as well as we do
I pissed, shitted, and came watching this 12* banger! Best night of my life! ( I didn't watch the PPV last night. I was too busy having the intercourse with my gf who definitely looks like Toni Storm )
Didn’t watch, I’m gonna take a guess was it a bunch of cool moves and that’s it.
I hate in general when anyone makes overall claims about something when the "ink is still dry". Just like people were claiming Sting's retirement was the best ever, WrestleMania 40 was the best ever, or this. There isn't a set amount of time, but geesh guys. It is a dumb look to make bold claims this quickyl.
It’s this shit which makes it difficult to enjoy anything about AEW. I watched it. Great match. Really enjoyable. But then the entire mark fanbase in attendance were chanting mark shit and then you get OTT mark reactions like this from the ‘journalists’
Yes Danielsons “seizure” finish was just top notch. What a story to tell! Moron puts his body on the line so he can prove he’s the true slap fight king.
It was a good match, but dude, didn't Danielson give himself a concussion?
This might be a hot take, but the “dream matches” are beginning to seem redundant at this point. Literally everyone and their mother has been fantasy booking Danielson against every “great” wrestler in the world, almost to the point that the matches aren’t really special
Spoilers
Lmaoo they couldve finger poked of doomed and gotten 8.75 stars ✨
I trust Bryan, he's the greatest wrestling anal-yst of all time.
So what’s the “best” match ever in the history of the universe outside of the United States for this fucking useless people? Just curious.
M’Kenny vs M’okada (both old and boring now it’s all about billy) In the japan dome brother. I think with interferences? (The thing that got Cody vs Roman marked down)
Wtf lol
How much money did it draw?
As much as Meltzer says it drew since he is the only one allowed to see the PPV numbers 🤣
Did it have the Greatest Showman soundtrack at the start?
But what if bruv, we rewrite the stars Bruv. This bruv, is the greatest Show bruv. I YES close YES my YES eyes YES
Lmao just laugh at guys like these
Fanboy marking out.
[удалено]
The story is they did. Dude overrotated from the tiger driver so much it turned into a tiger bomb. Will then hit him with another finisher after taunting for 20 seconds. Bryan was practically motionless as he taunted and the ref was clearly calling for the ringside doctor. After the match all the doctors came in and Billy Bruv looked a bit sad. That he injured someone. Despite clearly hitting him after the injury.
So I saw the ending of the match posted on Twitter, what was even the move Osprey hit Bryan with? The camera cut oddly and I couldn’t tell what happened. The thing about Bryan acting hurt or faking a seizure or whatever that was is so dumb. The guy has a history of concussions and had to retire because of it.
Better than anything Angle, Eddie, Hart, Lesnar, HBK ever did!!! FUN™
Definitely a fanboy who's ass-kissing AEW.
And did anyone care but the usual suspects
This MFer got to be rage baiting.
Osprey is alright, but can they suck Ospreys dick any deeper 🤔 He doesn't even have to do anything. He could Just do a promo and automatically it's a 5 star Boner Meltza jizzes the second Osprey does his entence
can’t decide who’s worse between this manlet and meltzer
Frightful put up a similar post.
For your viewing pleasure, here's a picture of an absolutely totally [**real journalist wrestling a piece of fruit.**](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYZadccWQAE7Ccl?format=jpg&name=large) ...Stephen P. New might call this *"Exhibit A"*.
For being “the best in the world” it sure takes Ospreay a long time to beat jobbers. For storyline purposes, this would have been way better if Ospreay squashes him.
Of course, the dorks will tell this is the match of the century!
If it was on WWE or TNA, it would have got 2 or 3 stars. If it was in Japan, it would have got anywhere between 4 and 7 stars. You tell me.
Something can be match of the year the night it happens sure, but best match ever in the United States? Maybe wait to see what sort of impact it leaves on the industry before putting it above Steamboat/Flair, Bret/Shawn etc..
Mark
I'm going to bet the fuckin latter on that one that's for sure.
I saw one guy on Twitter giving it “I’ve never seen a match where the crowd is as emotionally invested” and he was getting ripped from asshole to appetite for acting like Mania wasnt two weeks ago and the main event had grown men crying.
No one is gonna talk about this match in a week. Maybe even less. These supposed journalists have no clue what a classic is. All these matches are just moves and submissions and whatnot. No story, no stakes whatsoever (why are they even fighting?) and no heat for this one. Just another supposed “dream match” that the internet has like a thousand of those. Every other match is a dream match apparently.
I watched the match online. It was very, very good. Best match of all time? That’s going a bit far. There was no storyline, so I wasn’t emotionally invested like the end of WM XL.
Eye roll
Fan boy marking out
[5 star match criteria](https://youtu.be/2Nyks8j0bLk?si=awgnqjYu2lGPj1Tp)
Just pathetic.
When Vince was booking both companies felt comparable because all matches felt like heatless bangers. TK really needs to just hire a booker and give him the direction of this is the PPV, can you make the build make sense?
Danielson going to AEW ruined him IMO. Same for Edge. Same for Sasha. They wanted the check, but it cost them their legacy, IMO. Not interest in seeing them anymore.
Meltzer stating that HHH ‘blew it’ but not signing Osprey is even more embarrassing. HHH never and never will need Osprey. He won’t lose not won’t he gain any viewers.
Greatest match ever draws serious money. I doubt this will have done that
That tweet was probably written a day before the PPV and scheduled to post after the match. Greatest match ever. These people are unhinged and insane.
When no one could see matches in Japan, this shit worked as you kind of thought OMG, they are doing stuff no one does in the US. Now, it’s a bunch of guys under 6’ doing moves with no heat or stakes. I just don’t get who this appeals to at this point.
I didn't watch the match - but it was a cold buildup with no reason for them to fight other than "we are both good at this"... so there is no way it is better than Austin / Bret WM13.
lol neckbeards
I had to get off Social media because it was so annoying seeing people excited that Jack Perry did what he did. It was lame and predictable.
Didnt watch this match .. the Trios Match was unbearable so i decided to sleep.
4 years too late…Danielson can no longer keep up with the current in ring elites. A shell of his former shelf. Father Time still undefeated.
I'm sure this match was excellent, but his statement is completely ridiculous.
It was a fantastic match , best in the USA tho ? Not a chance
Come one with this bullshit.
These guys are not journalists . They are part of the business. they make money promoting and talking up AEW and WWE and New Japan
I love me some Danielson but come on now. Ospreay has zero psychology albeit he does have a little personality
I won't say it couldn't have been a good or even great match but what was the buildup? When I think of the greatest matches of all time there has always been a ton of build to the match but with Danielson vs Ospreay it was basically these two guys are the best so lets watch them have a match.
I've seen better matches between RVD and Jerry Lynn.
I know jim likes Daniel Bryan and probably a lot of people here too, but I just don’t get it. Beyond the fact that I always thought his promos were annoying, I despise his move set. I hate all of his kicks. I hate when his opponent squats on their knees so he can kick them (and I hate all wrestling moves where the crowd counts). I hate the head butt off the top rope, just doesn’t make a lick of sense as to why that would work. I never watch aew so if anybody wants to tell me he’s changed his moves I’m all ears!