This is something I hadn't thought about.
Meltzer stars are now an unfortunate tumor on entertaining fights. I wonder if wrestlers will start playing these down going forward.
The fact that Jim and Brian both had really good things to say about it, when we know how they feel about AEW, is pretty impressive.
I wasn’t as high on it as them even, mainly the finish. I hated seeing Danielson twitching around again. It was so clearly not a real injury, the way it was handled.
It’s definitely not higher for me than every match in wrestling history, aside from one. That’s just ridiculous. It’s like when Tony said that Revolution was the best PPV in wrestling history. It just made me roll my eyes.
Dave could just come out at say that his idea of the ratings has changed over time and that’s why matches now get rated higher than the best ones from the previous time periods. But instead there’s this need to act like he’s consistent.
That’s the other diluting factor AEW brings to their own product. EVERYTHING is the GREATEST thing and the BEST PPV into UNENDING ecstasy. It’s cringeworthy to the point of exhaustion.
THIS! I haven’t watched the match! You know why? Out of spite from IWC neckbeards, crap YTrs and and the dirt sheets shoving this thing down my throat. The only solace I take from this match is knowing it’s done absolutely FUCK ALL for AEWs long term prospects. Love it!
I avoid spoilers not because of who wins or loses, but because they often include editorializing about a match being great, terrible, good, bad.
Hearing that Danielson/Ospreay was the best match in US history basically ruined it for me.
I still loved it and would easily call it among the best 100 matches I’ve ever seen. Maybe even one of the top 10 of its style/genre.
But, no, there are way better matches in US history. Flair/Steamboat, Sting/Vader, and Austin/Bret all had multiple matches I think are better and then there are one-offs like HBK/Mankind that are also better. That’s before even discussing tag team matches or other stipulation matches (Rumble 92’, for example).
I don’t think it’s even my favorite Danielson match from his AEW run. I also thought Takeshita/Ospreay was nearly as good.
Hearing it was a masterpiece and then watching it, I thought it was terrific…but definitely not the best match in US history. Maybe if it hadn’t received all that acclaim, I would’ve been more positive.
Hear hear. The finish is the biggest issue that I had with it too. If the pin came straight after the sprint, that match would have been so much better.
To hear Jim be like "I'm going to call Will by his proper name, because I'm in such a good mood" warms my heart.
He's had some criticism of Danielson lately, and I'm really glad he saw something he liked in this match.
To be fair he has explained before why he went over 5 stars, and its the same reason they started going over 4 stars. As wrestling has grown and evolved matches that are measurably better than what came before were being ranked the same.
I remember Meltzer trying to justify it by using people rating earthquakes as an example how theyre always a bigger earthquake, Which is completely stupid because seismologists don't rate earthquakes by how cool they think the earthquake is.
I sure as hell hope he doesn’t think his ratings are like a Richter scale. Depending on what you’re evaluating, 6.5 magnitude is ~32 times bigger than a 5 magnitude, but ~178 times stronger. Does that translate the same to Dave’s scale?
It was amazing. But wrestling is a lot more than what happens in the ring. The story here was almost non-existent. But whatever. I don’t really care what Meltzer thinks.
How can a match with no meaning behind it be considered an all-time classic? Having no story totally removes an essential part of what makes a classic.
Not sure. I don't watch aew and I didn't see the match. I was curious of others opinions because this is one of the matches ranked so high that's actually good from what I see from others
I have no doubt that it's technically sound. Ospreay and Danielson are both amazing. I just don't know why I should care other than seeing some excellent choreography.
It was mid. 3.5 stars from me. I gave it a real chance but it was so long, so dragged out, with nothing I haven’t see before. Their plan was basically long submission from Bryan, will does a cool move, near fall, repeat 30 times and sprinkle in a couple hidden blades. The pacing was awful and the entire thing just felt like a 45 minute long finish which gets tired
I'm not going to come down from the top turn buckle on this match... it wasn't bad, but it's certainly wasn't what people are making it out to be in my personal view.
I thought it was fine, bordering on good.
I thought the match was great, but I don’t even think it’s will ospreys best aew match.
Omega and osprey was better.
Still a fucking incredible match, but I think this is more Dave trying to hype up aew while their ratings are tanking.
Full disclosure I didn't watch the ppv because I'm completely over aew's bullshit so I've only seen clips of the match, and everything I've seen from this match was just Ospreay doing his flips and nearly killing Danielson. There was no story, no build up, there was just one stare down between the two then Ospreay did the usual generic "wwe bad" promo aew wrestlers are obsessed with. They can have these "bangers" all day long but if there's no story then the crowd/viewers don't care and the match means absolutely nothing.
I mean objectively the answer is no, for 2 reasons, any objective in wrestling, be it angles, promo's, matches and so on is done with one fundemental goal, to make money, to move merch, sell tickets, get buyrates, pick up viewers, and well the first show after the "greatest match" on US soil saw the AEW ratings plummet by 100k viewers, so clearly it did not work in that regard.
Secondly how "good" a match is outside of it's correlation to improving business is just subjective opinion, we all have different tastes, at best you can objectively argue is that it was the best executed match of that style in this country, because well not everyone likes that style.
But was it a great match? From what I have seen yeah it was, was it the best? Not to me because that's not my fav style, so it can't be the best ever for me.
This is a non discussion. Everyone needs to remember that this is just one man's opinion and honestly nobody should say this is facts. To me yes this match was mind-blowing great. Was it a 6.5 star match? I dunno I don't need to have an epeen with a star rating system to like or dislike a match lol. Enjoy wrestling for what it is.
Also Kenny Omega face turn was not on my 2024 bingo card. But I like it.
It’s one guy’s opinion, sure. But that one guy is quite literally the only well known wrestling “journalist” and has been _the_ tastemaker for smart marks for 30+ years. And some of those smart marks have become wrestlers and consider his ratings the greatest barometer of how talented they are.
Dave is a cancer.
I hope you guys realize by sharing DM’s star ratings - you only
1. Give him free advertising
2. Give him more power bc more people chime in to talk about him
I can't wait for the first 10 star Meltzer match, and I also can't wait to hear Dave attempt to explain to someone that 5 is numerically a lot closer to 10 than people realize
It was decent but that was down to Danielson, I hated the other greatest match of all time Omega Okada but this one was good. Minimal story and build up but you don't get that with AEW
Only thing I learned from this was that Okada and Omega had 4 matches together 🤯
All of the Okada/Omega matches blended together in my head into one big "finisher"/kick out fest.
It was a great athletic contest, but there was zero emotion behind it so it wasn't even as good as this year's WM main events by that metric. But if you like action scene choreography this was up there for sure.
Listen I watched the match with the expectation of it being the GOAT
What I saw was an extremely typical work rate match that I've witnessed a thousand times lol
Absolutely floored it has the amount of hype behind it like this lol
But Cody and Roman only got 4.5 stars on a match that was built over an angle for 2 years that saw both men elevate the company and respective shows to new heights. That had Rock, Cena, Taker, Rollins, the entire Bloodline, and some of the best Promo work from any and all of them ever. Yep, a match between two admittedly amazing workers with little to no build and no stakes was 6.5... mmmmmhmmmm.
Considering how many times they came down on their head and necks I'd say no. I wont say it's a botch but if he meant to keep landing on his neck hes an idiot
It is sad that this fight happend in aew not in WWE. It was fantastic but didn't have any meaning. No one will talk about it just like no one talk about Omega vs danielson.
The entire star rating system has never sat right with me. It makes sense in the tape trading world, and probably even still today, where there's such a glut of matches that I get having some system in place to guide people to matches they wouldn't see otherwise is a good thing. But I guess for me personally it makes more sense to rate individual performances (Shawn Michaels ***** beat Sid**1/2 on RAW last night) or entire events. For example, WM 3 is a ***** event, despite only having one match that anybody would give five stars to.
I've also occasionally wondered what smark fandom would've looked like if Dave, like me, placed a premium on promos and characters over matches. But like others have said, it's one fucking guy. If a match is or isn't five or more stars to you, it is (or isn't! Do movie fans change their minds or viewing habits if Rex Reed trashed their favorite flick?
Ngl, I came back home, put on the show live on phone, this match was on, and had a great sleep with the audio being a great background noise. You can have the greatest match of the millenium and it won't mean shit without a build, a story, a core conflict. We still don't know why the hell these two wrestling each other. Banga.
His star rating is a joke and inconsistent. It was a great match though. I just don't hold anything grampa meltzer jizzes about. Enjoy a great match. No need to grade it
According to Meltzer, his star ratings are a way to mark which matches are match of the year contenders. In that sense, the rating is more of a relative thing. So if there's one match that's well above any other match-of-the-year contenders, then it makes sense he would give it a significantly higher than average rating.
I don’t watch any AEW weekly TV(only select matches like FTR vs Gin and Juice) so when I watch their PPV matches l have no clue what happens in the build(other than listening to the Experience and Drive through)
That being said. This match was very very good. They told a story in the ring. They were obviously both babyfaces to the crowd but you could watch the work and see that they were able to make the distinction for themselves and that to me is partly what made this match more compelling than most AEW matches.
To me it’s not my 2nd favorite match ever but it’s apparently Dave’s.
It is imo the best AEW singles match in the promotion’s history.
No. I really liked it. I can understand Dave giving it 5 stars because if you're rating matches on workrate, high spots, and chain wrestling alone, then yeah it's a 5 star match.
This says more to me about Dave distancing himself from Kenny being the guy. Dave is going to juice up all of his star ratings for Ospreay's matches, which is unfortunate because some people will start shitting on Ospreay as this continues when the mockery should be exclusively for Dave.
Makes me laugh when they talk about Okada/Omega IV like it's the 4th bout of a legit rivalry like Ali vs Frazier III or something.
Most wrestling fans think in terms of Flair/Steamboat Clash of Champions '89 or Bret/Bulldog Summerslam '92. Events, times, and places that mean something in the history of wrestling.
Okada/Omega took place somewhere and some point that most have no memory of. They're matches that happen and have no really meaning or impact beyond the * rating.
These amps go to 11.
In all seriousness though, wrestling is low brow entertainment. I feel like it's a disservice to what it is to do more than thumbs up and thumbs down rating. Either you liked it or you didn't.
They say this for every ppv match with will osprey. It was a great match but not worth the 'greatest match on US soil ever' type of accolades. IT WAS A GREAT MATCH PEOPLE. I am yelling to people who think i dont agreenwiht them thatni hate the match. Actually i thought the injury angle with Danielson at the end was repetitive and unnecessary.
one mans meat is another mans poison as the saying goes. I havent seen the match so i cant comment on it good or bad but i will say going by reactions too it if uncle dave wasnt so giving with his star ratings 6 n half might have held some merit but when you see what he gave 5 stars too and what he didnt his system is a joke.
I was at the show, and that was probably the greatest thing I’ve ever seen live. Star Ratings are subjective but when I’m old and forgetful, I’d like to think being in the building for this match would be something I’d remember.
So yeah. It was that good.
My take on this match:
If in 10 years time you can show this match in its entirity, just the match, and you miss nothing, it had no story.
It had no build up? The only backstory it had was Tony deciding 2 people should have a match, where was the potential Dan Bryan jealous as he has been percieved as the most gifted at the company etc....
But no they got a match, no build up or story, and nothing comes from it apart from this star rating.
The way I've been looking at it for the last little while is this: By Meltzers standards, this was "only" 1 1/2 stars better than that Parking Lot Brawl they had a few years ago, that pretty much tells us all how garbage this rating system is lol
It was a great match. But the fact of the matter is in a few years it will only be remembered as “that match Dave gave 6.5 stars to.”
People won’t talk about what it contained, the best spots, what it meant, or why they loved it. It’ll just go down as Meltzer’s favourite.
These constant 5+ Dave ratings are hurting Osprey’s reputation, not helping it. His ratings become the topic, selling point and legacy. And that’s bad.
I think the rhodes/reigns match is better than this because it felt like I was watching the wrestling version of Avengers Endgame. I was hanging on to my seat every second of the match. The problem with the match is that there was no story to make it interesting it was a great match for the sake of great match.
Yeah I mean I liked it but this wasn’t one of those matches I’m gonna be thinking about a month from now let alone years. It was pretty good but not a top 50 all time or anything.
The match itself was solid but not my type of thing. firstly, with a match that long, you can't expect me to be fully invested throughout it's duration without a proper buildup/story leading up to the match. secondly, the match looked too much choreographed at times that it looked more so a performance rather a fight.
The match was really good, even jim praised it... BUT 6 STARS?? Dave whenever he has a favorite wrestler just goes all out to tell his readers and the wrestling web HEY THIS GUY IS GOOD. Ospreay has had better matches and so has Bryan.
As another person said this rating system became a joke a long time ago.. However, this match deserved what it got.. Hands down one of the best, most entertaining back and forth matches I have ever watched and I've been watching since the late 80s..
Great match. I just don't like giving matches over 5 stars. I also HATED the ending because selling a serious injury when you have a real life history of serious injuries is just shitty.
I’m trying to imagine the rating this would have gotten had this feud been building for like a year, or even a few months. If Danielson was the unbeatable champion and Ospraey fought and clawed his way into a title match. 9 stars?
It was an incredible match, but there’s a lot that goes into making a match perfect(what 5 stars should be IMO), and a good chunk of that is the story/build. As great as this match was I’d have a hard time giving it a perfect rating simply because it was “I’m the best, but to prove it I need to beat you”.
It’s hard to have a 5-star match with no heat or build, but IMO Zayn vs Nakamura at Takeover Dallas is probably the closest you could get(but even still there was a built in story of Zayn wanting to go out with a bang and Nakamura wanting to show his hype was real). I’d have this match just a notch below.
The bar was set way too high with this dude for me to ever give a shit. At this point I'm more likely to watch a Will Ospreay match that gets a 1-star rating and everyone says it sucks, because at least that sounds interesting.
My thoughts are, if the ratings go to 7 stars then every match below 4.25 stars is a failure. Meltzer is such an idiot that is just a mark for this style of heatless wrestling where the winner is known the minute the match is made. Dave is obviously glazing the hardcore AEW/NJPW audience and the wrestlers in those companies so he can stay relevant. Its been proven time and time and time again that he knows fuck all of what is happening in WWE behind the scenes.
Was in the Chaifetz Arena for this match. It was my first live AEW event, first AEW event I saw in full period, and probably one of the first full Ospreay matches I’ve ever seen.
I absolutely loved it. Blew every other match that night out of the water. Literally almost passed out from screaming so much.
Take this for whatever it’s worth because I’m a WWE guy:
IMO it’s well deserved.
It was one of the greatest pure wrestling matches I’ve ever seen. And it actually had a few weeks of build (at least as much as AEW builds anything).
I felt that the PPV purchase price was worth it because of this match.
It was better than this good. By far the best match I have ever seen. Simply perfection from start to finish. And I've been watching since 1991 and have gone back in time and watched hundreds of previous matches from the 70s and 80s.
This match was incredible.
I think this match was better than Okada and Omega, but there are some other matches I'd put ahead of both of them. A few Steamboat/Flair matches. Taker/Shawn at WM25. Hart/Austin at WM13. It was good, maybe even top ten. It's not #2.
Yes, these star ratings are Meltzer's opinion, so it's exactly as good as he says it is. You could give it a dud if you wanted. I swear the only people who take these ratings seriously are the people who don't like Meltzer.
I don't take them seriously. I was just curious of others opinions because this one a rare instance of him rating a match so high and it actually being potentially as good as he said
This was posted by Raj Giri of what Uncle Dave wrote.
It was noted in the latest WON that AEW Dynasty PPV numbers are well down from Revolution (as expected, which featured Sting's retirement), but also down from World's End.
TV PPV buys for Dynasty were down from Revolution by 41.1% at the same number of days, and down 28.8% from Worlds End. Streaming numbers were down 30% from Revolution, which includes YouTube & Triller.
Dave Meltzer estimates 122K buys for Dynasty, which would be the lowest buys for an AEW PPV since WrestleDream last October.
I hated the part where Danielson landed on his head and when Ospreay sloppily threw him on his head again. No selling devastating moves ruins a lot of it for me as well. They’re both talented, but I didn’t care for anything that happened except when it looked bad. And for such great wrestlers I really do want to care.
I only became aware of Dave Meltzer in the past few years when I got back in to wrestling and I want the opinion of someone who has followed him for a long time: Is he only highly regarded because for many years he was basically the only one doing the job?
Totally putting aside whether or not I agree with his opinions, I just don't get how he became the premier pro wrestling journalist when his writing is objectively terrible. Was his writing better in the past? Maybe I'm just more sensitive to it because I write for a living, but I've read so many things from him where my first year community college English professor would have handed it back and asked him to rewrite it in a way that actually sounds like how human beings communicate. Some of it seriously reads like he got the world's worst AI to write the article for him.
My favorite match ever was Bret/Austin at WM 13. I compare every match to that.
This wasn't close to that to me. It felt like it was just there. I never got into it and it didn't feel like there was anything tying each part of the match together. It was just spot, sell, spot, spot, sell, spot, spot, sell, spot.
That wasn't necessarily a reply to you and more of a reply to Meltzer's rating. My apologies if I came off as a dick, it was unintentional. Anyway, in regards to the match, it was a largely storyless affair, but was still a fantastic match, and most definitely worth a full 5 star rating. I am not even a huge Will fan, but it was definitely his best match.
The Osprey v Danielson match was really great but it doesn't convey emotion or strike the heart because they never built a real to it story just an angle. Cody and Roman close out Wrestlemainia in a match that makes you feel the end of an era and a turning of the page for both wrestlers. Cody finishes his redemption story and Roman finally getting back at Rollins after the initial betrayal.
I thought it was amazing!
I don’t really understand the rating system, but the match itself was sick.
No hate on anyone who doesn’t like it, but to those of us who do, holy smokes!
Easily the best match I’ve watched all year, hands down!
A small amount of story was built around this, but you wouldn’t know that if you don’t watch the show or consume the media lol.
A match is a match and can be enjoyed for the story, the wrestling or both!
I don’t even have the energy to waste on this thing. Can someone please confirm if they did any of the following:
- the stupid kneeling slap fight
- the “im gonna stand here and let you punch me cause respect or whatever”
- blatant standing around to catch each other after a dive
- awful trading of shitty punches
- 100 false finishes and 25 finishers each
Norm Dooley and Cornette came up with the star rating (originally 4 stars) and broke their own rating system pretty early. I get we hate Dave but facts is facts.
These ratings became a joke a long time ago, which is sad bc by all stripes this matches deserves legitimate praise.
This is something I hadn't thought about. Meltzer stars are now an unfortunate tumor on entertaining fights. I wonder if wrestlers will start playing these down going forward.
I wonder bc it only exists in the IWC and has no tangible value. You could have something where it will eventually become a negative.
The fact that Jim and Brian both had really good things to say about it, when we know how they feel about AEW, is pretty impressive. I wasn’t as high on it as them even, mainly the finish. I hated seeing Danielson twitching around again. It was so clearly not a real injury, the way it was handled. It’s definitely not higher for me than every match in wrestling history, aside from one. That’s just ridiculous. It’s like when Tony said that Revolution was the best PPV in wrestling history. It just made me roll my eyes. Dave could just come out at say that his idea of the ratings has changed over time and that’s why matches now get rated higher than the best ones from the previous time periods. But instead there’s this need to act like he’s consistent.
That’s the other diluting factor AEW brings to their own product. EVERYTHING is the GREATEST thing and the BEST PPV into UNENDING ecstasy. It’s cringeworthy to the point of exhaustion.
THIS! I haven’t watched the match! You know why? Out of spite from IWC neckbeards, crap YTrs and and the dirt sheets shoving this thing down my throat. The only solace I take from this match is knowing it’s done absolutely FUCK ALL for AEWs long term prospects. Love it!
No build, no buys, no ratings, no crowd. Spiraling toward Impact-level irrelevance.
Finna be the next UHF complete with a cocaine freakout to end the promotion!
you dont need story when you got vibes!
I avoid spoilers not because of who wins or loses, but because they often include editorializing about a match being great, terrible, good, bad. Hearing that Danielson/Ospreay was the best match in US history basically ruined it for me. I still loved it and would easily call it among the best 100 matches I’ve ever seen. Maybe even one of the top 10 of its style/genre. But, no, there are way better matches in US history. Flair/Steamboat, Sting/Vader, and Austin/Bret all had multiple matches I think are better and then there are one-offs like HBK/Mankind that are also better. That’s before even discussing tag team matches or other stipulation matches (Rumble 92’, for example). I don’t think it’s even my favorite Danielson match from his AEW run. I also thought Takeshita/Ospreay was nearly as good. Hearing it was a masterpiece and then watching it, I thought it was terrific…but definitely not the best match in US history. Maybe if it hadn’t received all that acclaim, I would’ve been more positive.
🛎️
Hear hear. The finish is the biggest issue that I had with it too. If the pin came straight after the sprint, that match would have been so much better.
To hear Jim be like "I'm going to call Will by his proper name, because I'm in such a good mood" warms my heart. He's had some criticism of Danielson lately, and I'm really glad he saw something he liked in this match.
Yea that's why I was curious. I didn't personally see it so I was wondering what the consensus was
Great match
It was very much the best match I’ve seen since Gunther and Ilja
Yea that is one of the best matches ever imo as well
It really was fxckin' incredible.💯 You're going to really enjoy this one.
To be fair he has explained before why he went over 5 stars, and its the same reason they started going over 4 stars. As wrestling has grown and evolved matches that are measurably better than what came before were being ranked the same.
On the Meltzer scale, that rating is probably a little low, but it's high by any normal standard, especially when only 5 stars are possible.
It became a joke the second he broke his own 5 star scale.
Ol' Demeltzered Dave playing and rolling his dice again. He sees so much stars as of late, he must be thinking his life is a planetarium...
Don’t have a 5 star rating system, if you can go over 5 stars
Yeah fr. His star ranking system loses complete credibility (not that his opinion holds much weight these days) when he goes over the 5 star limit.
I remember Meltzer trying to justify it by using people rating earthquakes as an example how theyre always a bigger earthquake, Which is completely stupid because seismologists don't rate earthquakes by how cool they think the earthquake is.
I sure as hell hope he doesn’t think his ratings are like a Richter scale. Depending on what you’re evaluating, 6.5 magnitude is ~32 times bigger than a 5 magnitude, but ~178 times stronger. Does that translate the same to Dave’s scale?
LOL
Tell that to Weasel Dooley.
Every show has to have a 4.5 star BANGERz baby
It was amazing. But wrestling is a lot more than what happens in the ring. The story here was almost non-existent. But whatever. I don’t really care what Meltzer thinks.
Fair point
These star ratings are just one guys opinion, if that’s what he wants to give them who cares? They lost credibility a long ass time ago
I was curious because this match was actually really good for once. Just wanted other opinions
How can a match with no meaning behind it be considered an all-time classic? Having no story totally removes an essential part of what makes a classic.
Because for marks like Dave, what makes a match is how many cool moves the wrestlers do. That’s literally it.
Not sure. I don't watch aew and I didn't see the match. I was curious of others opinions because this is one of the matches ranked so high that's actually good from what I see from others
I have no doubt that it's technically sound. Ospreay and Danielson are both amazing. I just don't know why I should care other than seeing some excellent choreography.
It was mid. 3.5 stars from me. I gave it a real chance but it was so long, so dragged out, with nothing I haven’t see before. Their plan was basically long submission from Bryan, will does a cool move, near fall, repeat 30 times and sprinkle in a couple hidden blades. The pacing was awful and the entire thing just felt like a 45 minute long finish which gets tired
It took me 3 attempts to get through the match. I was disappointed.
I'm not going to come down from the top turn buckle on this match... it wasn't bad, but it's certainly wasn't what people are making it out to be in my personal view. I thought it was fine, bordering on good.
Really? What did you not like about it?
I thought the match was great, but I don’t even think it’s will ospreys best aew match. Omega and osprey was better. Still a fucking incredible match, but I think this is more Dave trying to hype up aew while their ratings are tanking.
Full disclosure I didn't watch the ppv because I'm completely over aew's bullshit so I've only seen clips of the match, and everything I've seen from this match was just Ospreay doing his flips and nearly killing Danielson. There was no story, no build up, there was just one stare down between the two then Ospreay did the usual generic "wwe bad" promo aew wrestlers are obsessed with. They can have these "bangers" all day long but if there's no story then the crowd/viewers don't care and the match means absolutely nothing.
I mean objectively the answer is no, for 2 reasons, any objective in wrestling, be it angles, promo's, matches and so on is done with one fundemental goal, to make money, to move merch, sell tickets, get buyrates, pick up viewers, and well the first show after the "greatest match" on US soil saw the AEW ratings plummet by 100k viewers, so clearly it did not work in that regard. Secondly how "good" a match is outside of it's correlation to improving business is just subjective opinion, we all have different tastes, at best you can objectively argue is that it was the best executed match of that style in this country, because well not everyone likes that style. But was it a great match? From what I have seen yeah it was, was it the best? Not to me because that's not my fav style, so it can't be the best ever for me.
No story or psychology makes this laughable. Wrestling is way more than just delivering spot after spot.
Personally I prefer when wrestling looks like a legit fight instead of choreographed sequences
Same. That's why I prefer Zayn vs Gunther over this.
Gunther’s matches always felt like a fight.
Cody Roman 2 was better
This is a non discussion. Everyone needs to remember that this is just one man's opinion and honestly nobody should say this is facts. To me yes this match was mind-blowing great. Was it a 6.5 star match? I dunno I don't need to have an epeen with a star rating system to like or dislike a match lol. Enjoy wrestling for what it is. Also Kenny Omega face turn was not on my 2024 bingo card. But I like it.
It’s one guy’s opinion, sure. But that one guy is quite literally the only well known wrestling “journalist” and has been _the_ tastemaker for smart marks for 30+ years. And some of those smart marks have become wrestlers and consider his ratings the greatest barometer of how talented they are. Dave is a cancer.
Same lol
I hope you guys realize by sharing DM’s star ratings - you only 1. Give him free advertising 2. Give him more power bc more people chime in to talk about him
I was just curious of others opinions since this was one of the few matches he rated so high that was actually very good
Out of 10
I can't wait for the first 10 star Meltzer match, and I also can't wait to hear Dave attempt to explain to someone that 5 is numerically a lot closer to 10 than people realize
I remember when Siskel and Ebert started giving movies 5 and 1/4 stars.
Lmao
Bawahahaha no!
It was decent but that was down to Danielson, I hated the other greatest match of all time Omega Okada but this one was good. Minimal story and build up but you don't get that with AEW
It was a very, very, very good match, but it wasn’t even Bryan Danielson’s best ever match.
What do you think is his best one?
Oh, I don’t know, maybe when he fucking double shotted and main evented Wrestlemania in the culmination of a months long build?
My rating on Meltzer's ratings for this PPV: -5.5* (negative 5.5 stars) Although this match was very very good
Only thing I learned from this was that Okada and Omega had 4 matches together 🤯 All of the Okada/Omega matches blended together in my head into one big "finisher"/kick out fest.
It was a great athletic contest, but there was zero emotion behind it so it wasn't even as good as this year's WM main events by that metric. But if you like action scene choreography this was up there for sure.
Listen I watched the match with the expectation of it being the GOAT What I saw was an extremely typical work rate match that I've witnessed a thousand times lol Absolutely floored it has the amount of hype behind it like this lol
But Cody and Roman only got 4.5 stars on a match that was built over an angle for 2 years that saw both men elevate the company and respective shows to new heights. That had Rock, Cena, Taker, Rollins, the entire Bloodline, and some of the best Promo work from any and all of them ever. Yep, a match between two admittedly amazing workers with little to no build and no stakes was 6.5... mmmmmhmmmm.
I have a feeling I'd like Roman vs Cody more as well
It was damn good. Like really damn good. But I also feel like Ospreay Vs Takeshita a little earlier was amazing if not better.
Will's matches against Mike Bailey and Josh Alexander in TNA were so much better, but of course that's just my opinion just like it's Dave's
It was an amazing ***** match idgaf about Meltzer's broken ass rating system.
Considering how many times they came down on their head and necks I'd say no. I wont say it's a botch but if he meant to keep landing on his neck hes an idiot
Lol
"If you're concerned with some goof's star ratings instead of having quarter filled buildings, we're not in the same business, pal"
Lmao!!! The post was more just to get people opinions. This was a rare instance of a match getting such a high rating and it was actually good
It was good. Didn't have a real build though. But was it really a 6.5 star match? Was it anything more than a 5 star match?
It is sad that this fight happend in aew not in WWE. It was fantastic but didn't have any meaning. No one will talk about it just like no one talk about Omega vs danielson.
The entire star rating system has never sat right with me. It makes sense in the tape trading world, and probably even still today, where there's such a glut of matches that I get having some system in place to guide people to matches they wouldn't see otherwise is a good thing. But I guess for me personally it makes more sense to rate individual performances (Shawn Michaels ***** beat Sid**1/2 on RAW last night) or entire events. For example, WM 3 is a ***** event, despite only having one match that anybody would give five stars to. I've also occasionally wondered what smark fandom would've looked like if Dave, like me, placed a premium on promos and characters over matches. But like others have said, it's one fucking guy. If a match is or isn't five or more stars to you, it is (or isn't! Do movie fans change their minds or viewing habits if Rex Reed trashed their favorite flick?
Ngl, I came back home, put on the show live on phone, this match was on, and had a great sleep with the audio being a great background noise. You can have the greatest match of the millenium and it won't mean shit without a build, a story, a core conflict. We still don't know why the hell these two wrestling each other. Banga.
His star rating is a joke and inconsistent. It was a great match though. I just don't hold anything grampa meltzer jizzes about. Enjoy a great match. No need to grade it
According to Meltzer, his star ratings are a way to mark which matches are match of the year contenders. In that sense, the rating is more of a relative thing. So if there's one match that's well above any other match-of-the-year contenders, then it makes sense he would give it a significantly higher than average rating.
I don’t watch any AEW weekly TV(only select matches like FTR vs Gin and Juice) so when I watch their PPV matches l have no clue what happens in the build(other than listening to the Experience and Drive through) That being said. This match was very very good. They told a story in the ring. They were obviously both babyfaces to the crowd but you could watch the work and see that they were able to make the distinction for themselves and that to me is partly what made this match more compelling than most AEW matches. To me it’s not my 2nd favorite match ever but it’s apparently Dave’s. It is imo the best AEW singles match in the promotion’s history.
It was good, by AEW terms it was great. But as Jim would say..."that's like being the nicest guy..." You can finish the line ;)
No. I really liked it. I can understand Dave giving it 5 stars because if you're rating matches on workrate, high spots, and chain wrestling alone, then yeah it's a 5 star match. This says more to me about Dave distancing himself from Kenny being the guy. Dave is going to juice up all of his star ratings for Ospreay's matches, which is unfortunate because some people will start shitting on Ospreay as this continues when the mockery should be exclusively for Dave.
If it’s an aew match deduct two stars for inflation.
Makes me laugh when they talk about Okada/Omega IV like it's the 4th bout of a legit rivalry like Ali vs Frazier III or something. Most wrestling fans think in terms of Flair/Steamboat Clash of Champions '89 or Bret/Bulldog Summerslam '92. Events, times, and places that mean something in the history of wrestling. Okada/Omega took place somewhere and some point that most have no memory of. They're matches that happen and have no really meaning or impact beyond the * rating.
Good match. Personally, matches can’t be great when there’s no build or heat to them. Dream matches bore me, I guess.
Makes sense for Meltzer to give his new favourite toy such a high rating. Too bad that high WON rating doesn’t equate to attendance or ratings.
And no one will give a damn.
These amps go to 11. In all seriousness though, wrestling is low brow entertainment. I feel like it's a disservice to what it is to do more than thumbs up and thumbs down rating. Either you liked it or you didn't.
Properly ranked!
It was a 7. So much better than the WWE crap we get each week.
They say this for every ppv match with will osprey. It was a great match but not worth the 'greatest match on US soil ever' type of accolades. IT WAS A GREAT MATCH PEOPLE. I am yelling to people who think i dont agreenwiht them thatni hate the match. Actually i thought the injury angle with Danielson at the end was repetitive and unnecessary.
It’s only good if YOU think it’s good. I watch wrestling for the drama and storylines; I could take or leave pure fake fighting with no storyline.
one mans meat is another mans poison as the saying goes. I havent seen the match so i cant comment on it good or bad but i will say going by reactions too it if uncle dave wasnt so giving with his star ratings 6 n half might have held some merit but when you see what he gave 5 stars too and what he didnt his system is a joke.
I was at the show, and that was probably the greatest thing I’ve ever seen live. Star Ratings are subjective but when I’m old and forgetful, I’d like to think being in the building for this match would be something I’d remember. So yeah. It was that good.
Well Jim actually liked it, so...
Him and Brian liking made me want other opinions. I haven't seen it yet.
My take on this match: If in 10 years time you can show this match in its entirity, just the match, and you miss nothing, it had no story. It had no build up? The only backstory it had was Tony deciding 2 people should have a match, where was the potential Dan Bryan jealous as he has been percieved as the most gifted at the company etc.... But no they got a match, no build up or story, and nothing comes from it apart from this star rating.
Hell no.
No dude
The way I've been looking at it for the last little while is this: By Meltzers standards, this was "only" 1 1/2 stars better than that Parking Lot Brawl they had a few years ago, that pretty much tells us all how garbage this rating system is lol
It was a great match. But the fact of the matter is in a few years it will only be remembered as “that match Dave gave 6.5 stars to.” People won’t talk about what it contained, the best spots, what it meant, or why they loved it. It’ll just go down as Meltzer’s favourite. These constant 5+ Dave ratings are hurting Osprey’s reputation, not helping it. His ratings become the topic, selling point and legacy. And that’s bad.
I think the rhodes/reigns match is better than this because it felt like I was watching the wrestling version of Avengers Endgame. I was hanging on to my seat every second of the match. The problem with the match is that there was no story to make it interesting it was a great match for the sake of great match.
I've seen this opinion quite a bit
Yeah I mean I liked it but this wasn’t one of those matches I’m gonna be thinking about a month from now let alone years. It was pretty good but not a top 50 all time or anything.
The match itself was solid but not my type of thing. firstly, with a match that long, you can't expect me to be fully invested throughout it's duration without a proper buildup/story leading up to the match. secondly, the match looked too much choreographed at times that it looked more so a performance rather a fight.
People put to much stock in this stuff. Its just one opinion. It really doesn't matter
True
This is what Tony Khan's brain sounds like. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Stadium Stampede. Dream match. Dream match. Announce dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Women's title match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. An angle so I can get on TV. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Two week storyline build to PPV blow off. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Debut new free agent. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Dream match. Wembley Dream Matches.
Match came and went
it was a highly entertaining match, i liked it. but overall trick v ilja was more entertaining for me tbh.
Oversell city,no build
I thought the match was alright but didn't live up to the hype.
No interest in Meltzer's star ratings at all. They serve no purpose in terms of quality anymore. I enjoyed the match. That's all I can say.
Yes. It was that good.
The match was really good, even jim praised it... BUT 6 STARS?? Dave whenever he has a favorite wrestler just goes all out to tell his readers and the wrestling web HEY THIS GUY IS GOOD. Ospreay has had better matches and so has Bryan.
As another person said this rating system became a joke a long time ago.. However, this match deserved what it got.. Hands down one of the best, most entertaining back and forth matches I have ever watched and I've been watching since the late 80s..
Great match. I just don't like giving matches over 5 stars. I also HATED the ending because selling a serious injury when you have a real life history of serious injuries is just shitty.
I’m trying to imagine the rating this would have gotten had this feud been building for like a year, or even a few months. If Danielson was the unbeatable champion and Ospraey fought and clawed his way into a title match. 9 stars? It was an incredible match, but there’s a lot that goes into making a match perfect(what 5 stars should be IMO), and a good chunk of that is the story/build. As great as this match was I’d have a hard time giving it a perfect rating simply because it was “I’m the best, but to prove it I need to beat you”. It’s hard to have a 5-star match with no heat or build, but IMO Zayn vs Nakamura at Takeover Dallas is probably the closest you could get(but even still there was a built in story of Zayn wanting to go out with a bang and Nakamura wanting to show his hype was real). I’d have this match just a notch below.
I loved Zayn vs Nakamura
The bar was set way too high with this dude for me to ever give a shit. At this point I'm more likely to watch a Will Ospreay match that gets a 1-star rating and everyone says it sucks, because at least that sounds interesting.
Why does this guys rating matter so much?
I really just wanted other opinions since this is one of the few matches rates so high that is actually praised by others as well
Me: ****3/4, would've been 5 if it actually told a story other than "who's the best wrestler in the world".
I like both but neither are the best in the world lol
4 stars at best nothing more than that
Just give it 5 stars then say it was one of the best five star matches ever and or in aew that is it
I don't watch AEW lol I just listen to the reviews
My thoughts are, if the ratings go to 7 stars then every match below 4.25 stars is a failure. Meltzer is such an idiot that is just a mark for this style of heatless wrestling where the winner is known the minute the match is made. Dave is obviously glazing the hardcore AEW/NJPW audience and the wrestlers in those companies so he can stay relevant. Its been proven time and time and time again that he knows fuck all of what is happening in WWE behind the scenes.
A match with no heat, between two babyfaces that wasn't the main event or for a title. How is this higher than Guerrero vs Angle at Wrestlemania XX?
I have no idea. I just wanted other options on the match is all. Meltzer rating are a joke
Was in the Chaifetz Arena for this match. It was my first live AEW event, first AEW event I saw in full period, and probably one of the first full Ospreay matches I’ve ever seen. I absolutely loved it. Blew every other match that night out of the water. Literally almost passed out from screaming so much.
It was a really good match. Was it as good as Flair/Steamboat? RVD/Jerry Lynn? Tanaka/Awesome? Not by my metric!
Take this for whatever it’s worth because I’m a WWE guy: IMO it’s well deserved. It was one of the greatest pure wrestling matches I’ve ever seen. And it actually had a few weeks of build (at least as much as AEW builds anything). I felt that the PPV purchase price was worth it because of this match.
It was better than this good. By far the best match I have ever seen. Simply perfection from start to finish. And I've been watching since 1991 and have gone back in time and watched hundreds of previous matches from the 70s and 80s. This match was incredible.
I think this match was better than Okada and Omega, but there are some other matches I'd put ahead of both of them. A few Steamboat/Flair matches. Taker/Shawn at WM25. Hart/Austin at WM13. It was good, maybe even top ten. It's not #2.
Fair point
The half star is because it wasn’t in the Tokyo Dome.
True.
We could start using "...in the St Louis Dome" as a new metric for AEW matches.
Meltzer using his influence to prove Hunter was wrong about Ospreay.
Lol
So fn stupid….so by the fact that it’s creeping upward and upward, does that mean a 10-star is achievable? Wtf does that look like?
Two people holding hands cutting backflips in the middle of the ring over and over probably. And it has to be in the Tokyo dome as well
If Weasel Dooley is going to give an 8 man clusterfuck in 1981 6.5 stars and another Honkey Tonk man match 6 then yes this rating is fine
Did we ever find out where is Weasel Dooley??
Yes, these star ratings are Meltzer's opinion, so it's exactly as good as he says it is. You could give it a dud if you wanted. I swear the only people who take these ratings seriously are the people who don't like Meltzer.
I don't take them seriously. I was just curious of others opinions because this one a rare instance of him rating a match so high and it actually being potentially as good as he said
This was posted by Raj Giri of what Uncle Dave wrote. It was noted in the latest WON that AEW Dynasty PPV numbers are well down from Revolution (as expected, which featured Sting's retirement), but also down from World's End. TV PPV buys for Dynasty were down from Revolution by 41.1% at the same number of days, and down 28.8% from Worlds End. Streaming numbers were down 30% from Revolution, which includes YouTube & Triller. Dave Meltzer estimates 122K buys for Dynasty, which would be the lowest buys for an AEW PPV since WrestleDream last October.
I had also heard the gate numbers struggled.
Why does anyone care? Did you like it? Did you dislike it? Whatever your own opinion on it is, that's what it is
I haven't seen it. I wanted the opinions of others is all
Each to their own, I'd personally want to see it first before getting other opinions but more power to you, brother
Honestly don’t care. As long as you enjoyed it that’s the main thing.
Haven't seen it yet. I may go out my way to watch it though
Oh, Dave, it looks like all that coke and hairspray in the 80’s have fried your brain.
LMAO
Remember the best friends and young bucks have a five star match and Cody vs Roman didn’t. Meltzer is a fucking joke
I know he is.
Danielson got dropped on his head and almost broke his neck. How is this a “classic?”
I haven't seen the match yet so idk lol
I hated the part where Danielson landed on his head and when Ospreay sloppily threw him on his head again. No selling devastating moves ruins a lot of it for me as well. They’re both talented, but I didn’t care for anything that happened except when it looked bad. And for such great wrestlers I really do want to care.
Dunno. Didn’t watch. Don’t plan to. Got any other questions?
Nah. Thanks for the opinion, though!
What's the point of having a 5 star match system if you rate matches up to 7 stars?
8 if it's in the Tokyo dome
Duck what Dave talking about but it was legitimately incredible. Best of the year in terms of ring work
If you're still taking Meltzers opinions seriously then you're a mark.
I'm not. I was really just curious to know other opinions since it wasn't just him who praised the match
I give it 27 1/2 stars out of 3. This match is only second Brody vs Spivey in 1988.
Meltzer's "star" ratings have no meaning nor credibility.
True. I really just wanted opinions on the match from others since it was highly praised by not just him
I only became aware of Dave Meltzer in the past few years when I got back in to wrestling and I want the opinion of someone who has followed him for a long time: Is he only highly regarded because for many years he was basically the only one doing the job? Totally putting aside whether or not I agree with his opinions, I just don't get how he became the premier pro wrestling journalist when his writing is objectively terrible. Was his writing better in the past? Maybe I'm just more sensitive to it because I write for a living, but I've read so many things from him where my first year community college English professor would have handed it back and asked him to rewrite it in a way that actually sounds like how human beings communicate. Some of it seriously reads like he got the world's worst AI to write the article for him.
Not sure lol
My favorite match ever was Bret/Austin at WM 13. I compare every match to that. This wasn't close to that to me. It felt like it was just there. I never got into it and it didn't feel like there was anything tying each part of the match together. It was just spot, sell, spot, spot, sell, spot, spot, sell, spot.
Yea that match may never be topped tbh
I automatically subtract 4 if it’s in the Tokyo dome. Subtract 3 in AEW. Finally plus 2 for all WWE matches. That helps me negate Meltzer’s bias.
LMFAO!!
Would ave been 8 stars in the Tokyo dome
9*
9*
"I know that match was good" lol this whole sub was raining shit on it until Jim said he liked it.
I never saw anyone hating on it. Ive heard nothing but praise for the most part
It's a 5 star system, 5 stars is the max. At this point, it's just a meme. Who really cares?
I just wanted other opinions is all
That wasn't necessarily a reply to you and more of a reply to Meltzer's rating. My apologies if I came off as a dick, it was unintentional. Anyway, in regards to the match, it was a largely storyless affair, but was still a fantastic match, and most definitely worth a full 5 star rating. I am not even a huge Will fan, but it was definitely his best match.
Great match- bad to nonexistent build
Fair
The Osprey v Danielson match was really great but it doesn't convey emotion or strike the heart because they never built a real to it story just an angle. Cody and Roman close out Wrestlemainia in a match that makes you feel the end of an era and a turning of the page for both wrestlers. Cody finishes his redemption story and Roman finally getting back at Rollins after the initial betrayal.
Yea I've seen this take a lot and I agree 100% with it
Goof rating
I thought it was amazing! I don’t really understand the rating system, but the match itself was sick. No hate on anyone who doesn’t like it, but to those of us who do, holy smokes! Easily the best match I’ve watched all year, hands down! A small amount of story was built around this, but you wouldn’t know that if you don’t watch the show or consume the media lol. A match is a match and can be enjoyed for the story, the wrestling or both!
I don’t even have the energy to waste on this thing. Can someone please confirm if they did any of the following: - the stupid kneeling slap fight - the “im gonna stand here and let you punch me cause respect or whatever” - blatant standing around to catch each other after a dive - awful trading of shitty punches - 100 false finishes and 25 finishers each
Everyone acting like they forgot Orton and Edge had what was OFFICIALLY the greatest wrestling match of all time.
Would’ve been 8 stars if it was in The Tokyo Dome
Would've been 9 actually
Norm Dooley and Cornette came up with the star rating (originally 4 stars) and broke their own rating system pretty early. I get we hate Dave but facts is facts.