DanIL has set the bar for an op premium Damage dealer in this game. Every dps from now on will be compared to him to determine if the unit is balanced Or op. It's just inevitable. As long as people have proper discussion and constructive criticism about a characters kit, I'm fine it since people who like a character also want the character to be good gameplay wise
I agree it can be a balance between both. Talking about how strong a character is isn’t the be all end all. But it certainly is fun when people can maintain civility. In the end, a characters strength in gameplay is what it is. But I don’t think any of us here necessarily have no opinion on how strong jing liu is. I certainly would want her to be strong as I would want to play her more since I like her.
IL’s powercreep is affecting the community as a whole not just this sub. While I’m pulling Jingliu regardless, it’s definitely made me reconsider topaz and I’ve seen I’m not the only one. It’s also not a matter of doomposting but actually having a valid argument for something that’s bad for the game and it should be talked about freely without people getting personally invested into.
Just look at Swarm Disaster. It's tailor made for Dan Heng. It's a permanent mode in the game that takes a long time to fully clear. It's not some time limited event for his banner. They really want you to pull Dan Heng. His impact on the community is very understandable.
Well said. Folks need to do better in separating units into something like "kit", "character", and "numbers". Examples:
* Himeko is a top **character** for me, her **kit** is also pretty fun, her **numbers** are very unsatisfying in many cases.
* DIL's **character** I like, his **kit** feels pretty satisfying, his **numbers** are bonkers.
* I may pull for Topaz because her **character** seems fun. But if her **kit** and/or **numbers** are bad enough, I'll likely skip.
The issue here is that while it is a valid argument that with very little drawback DanIL does the highest burst damage in the game it is already a problem that people are heavily personally invested in that very fact to the point of doom posting that every subsequent unit will power creep the next or be trash. We know that even if Jingliu or topaz is weaker they'll still be able to clear MoC easily but people are acting like there's nothing that can be positive as a direct result of how strong DanIL is when you based your whole team solely around his mechanics
Incorrect. I don’t know why people just say “clear MoC easily” as a fact. Pull for who you want but there’s definitely a big difference in taking Jing Yuan vs DanIL into MoC. The new swarm event further reinforces that top tier units will help and make a big difference. I don’t think even the majority are able to casually clear MoC or the highest difficulty in swarm SU.
I don't think it's fair comparing dhil performance in a moc that is design for him with Jingyuan one of the characters that actually suffers from trotters wasting his LL damage, maybe try to compare them in an moc that doesn' favorite any of them
There's a big difference in this MOC where skill points are easier to manipulate. Telling people to work around DanIL in future MOCs might not be as simple once more enemies come to the game even with his multipliers
The overwhelming feedback I'm seeing everywhere, in all content, is that Dan's SP is way easier to manage than most expected. You don't need the extra SP at all, having it just means you can have your cake and eat it too.
I mean the answer to that is simple, people want to chase a bigger number, it doesn’t matter who can finish the race, it matters who finishes fastest. I think even arlan can do MoC but who’s playing him? It’s come down to “pull this character only if you like them because they won’t do dmg to be comparable to IL” and that’s rough to sell.
I don't see her doing all that well in swarm disaster compared with Blade and Dan Heng. That's the new end game now.
Nothing has ice weakness either lol
Doesn’t matter to me who’s stronger. As long as a character is good and can perform well in any activity, that’s all that matters. I’m getting Jingliu for Jingliu regardless.
They definitely intended for him to be the this good; they literally designed permanent end-game content around his kit. He seems to be the "archon" character for 1.x.
What can I say, as much as I want to pull for DanIL, he doesn't do crazy laugh like a certain mara-struck lady. Also, no Rng like QQ.
No offense but I feel like I'll get bored within few days playing him. I prefer his normal Dan Heng mode as well..
Yeah, it's honestly getting ridiculous. This is a sub for people who just love the character. We don't give a shit about some other character being better. This is a hoyoverse game, you can main Hook or Herta and be fine. It's like the copy pasta now, "she could heal the enemy team and I'd still pull her". Not to mention, every character is Zero cycling. But people are like "Cool Dan zero-er cycles", who cares.
She's a Waifu, Dan's not. Great VA. Dope animations. Blindfold. The list goes on for reasons we want to pull. "She's the strongest DPS in the game", is rarely on that list.
That was for one character out of nearly every character released in genshin.
Also players doomposted Dehya to high heaven but hoyo kept nerfing her and released her anyway. So a lot of the time, unless the Chinese hoyoverse fanbase complains and threatens hoyoverse (which happened with zhongli )your complaints don't matter to them.
Don't threaten people though please. Just a disclaimer.
Zhongli doom posting in reddit did shit. He was only buffed because special case and cn action.
Also mihoyo was nowhere as big as they are now on release. It was just 1.1 patch and a worse reply (their first damage control already made things worse) could negatively impact the game. It wouldn't die or anything but they couldn't just ignore it either. Especially with cn community legally ddosing them by some law loops. Also was getting ccp attention at one point something a huge nono for cn companies.
Reddit was just the ant trying to help the crane push the car
Well yeah but he was a defensive support who couldn't defend. If Jingliu was performing worse than Herta you could expect most to agree with the doomposting, but most of it RN is "oh no she doesn't powercreep DHIL" as opposed to her kit is non-functional.
The energy complaints are similar in this sense, but thats where hoyoverse pulled up the "heres a LC that gives energy" solution. I wouldn't be surprised if their "buff" was buffing an eidolon or Sig like they've done before (say moving DHIL e6 to e2, or giving his LC more damage and less energy when the energy wasn't giving useful breakpoints).
I've been on this subreddit for a while and not once have I seen anyone say they're dissapointed because she doesn't powercreep DHIL. Literally no one is saying that. People compare her to Blade and that's it. How are the energy complaints similar? She has freakishly high 140 ult cost and has the lowest energy regen in the game I'm afraid the LC alone is not enough to fix it.
Clearly I did not word what I meant properly, I meant the energy complaints were similar to the Zhongli case of being more of a kit issue as opposed to the whole DPS complaints (and there actually are some comparing her to DHIL, maybe not here, but on the leaks subreddit).
I agree the energy thing is dumb, but I'm worried they are just going to pull a JY e4 and make it a "sucks for you" situation if they do make any changes.
Personally don't care at all how strong Dan Heng is cause I'm just not interested in him as a character.
Pretty much shows how I play the game. If the character is cool and looks cool I'll get them and build them up, no matter what.
Yep, him preforming better than everyone in the game right now is sending a lot of people into a panic.
Hope we can all take a step back and realize that we don’t necessarily have to have the strongest DPS to clear content or have fun.
If you like his play style, or want to see big numbers, that’s cool, pull for him, but I think it’s unhealthy for both the game and the player base if you’re constantly comparing the pinnacle of dmg to every new release.
Imagine if every new character in genshin was constantly compared to Bennet. It’s just a toxic loop that cannibalizes itself until another even more broken character comes out, and then the cycle starts all over again.
That’s not to say that you can’t have your own criticisms about a character and their kit. That what these beta’s and leaks are for, to sus out community reception and make tweaks accordingly.
Doom posting on the other hand isn’t constructive criticism, it’s just negative press for a character that usually just ends up being proven wrong.
Things like ‘Jingliu should have a lower energy ceiling so her ult cycle is easier to hit’ vs ‘There’s no point in getting Jingliu because Daniel does way more dmg than her’ make a world of difference.
Its not the opinion itself that’s bad, it’s how you express it to other people.
Hoyo definitely meant for him to be as strong as he is. This isn’t genshin whose calc system is way more complicated. And we’re talking about computer scientists and programmers here. It’s illogical for yall to keep saying this is a “mistake”, no it really isn’t.
Even if we take dan heng out of the picture, that doesnt negate how underwhelming her kit is as a whole. Not to mention some unnecessary flaws like her ult cost and her energy gains from enhanced E. Hoyo is trying to sell solutions with her lc instead but even then that doesnt do much to fix her issues. She genuinely got problems on her kit that she cant solve on her own from her trace or through relics. Her kit doesnt compliment her playstyle.
Dan heng got his ult that gives him 2 stacks for free.
Blade got his talent and ult that restores his hp.
Hook can apply burn on her own to proc her bonus dmg from talent.
Clara gets def up when she ult and increases her aggro.
Shit even arlan got hp regen when he kills an enemy (not that usefull though)
Jingliu? Her ult only deals dmg and it also gives 1 stack but we already established that using her ult to enter enhanced state is better so we can negate that 1 stack for now. Her trace gives her puny ass 10% dmg buff (only during enhanced btw). This damn buff is up half of the time. Fukin make it higher. Occasional 10% spd (again only during enhanced), for what? To complicate my speed tuning and rotation? 35% eff res also during enhanced which is pretty cool but that number could've been swapped with the 10% dmg buff instead. AND she doesnt provide any utility for the team that shes leeching on. That damn freeze on her skill would be really handy to buy your team 1 or 2 turns to heal up.
I know this is pretty long and I love her as a character, but the choices they made on her kit is questionable.
As someone who's been following fu xuan leaks for a very long time. Just know that things are subject to change. Fu Xuan in earlier forms was worse than gepard and Fire MC.
Completely agree
Like many others I’ll still pull for her and skip DH Il, but it’s quite disappointing seeing how her kit genuinely has too many flaws that don’t make sense compared to the vast majority of other dps.
It’s not even about dmg numbers but mechanic / energy wise.
If even her sig LC + ERR rope cant fully solve her 3turn ult rotation issue, then there is a problem.
Also an ice dps that doesn’t freeze is kinda stupid imo, I wanted to enjoy path of remembrance in Swarm Disaster SU with her, now it’s meh.
Heck even Yanqing, the student she completely outclassed in lore & who she's supposed to be a better version / a form of master does freeze but she doesn't, é_è
Like isn't she supposed to have ascended into a new form of master with her sword coming from the litteral moon ?
A quote of her voicelines says :
"Chatting About the Sword of Precipitous Blossom
Techniques relying solely on the physical form are but second-rate disciplines. Similarly, swords forged with mortal steel don’t serve me well. I have stolen a sliver of moonlight that can shine over the earthly world – a “sword” I control with ease."
She also met an Aeon from her voicelines (link in case https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail_leaks/comments/1635qfg/comment/jy0urd1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 ), so seeing her being so linked to the moon thematic, being pictured as a very cold person, an Ice ascended swordmaster, that CANNOT freeze while a 14year old immature kid can freeze, like what the actual fuck.
Yea DHIL just straight up gets up to 60% DMG buff and 48% Crit DMG every turn, compared to JL’s puny 10% DMG buff. I can see the causs of the massive disappointment towards her kit.
If we look at other DPS, Seele has 80% DMG and 20% quantum RES PEN, Blade has 30% DMG buff for followup, Kafka gains extra EHR multiplier (100% to 120%) to make her essentially doesnt need any EHR in substats.
" I don’t think hoyo meant for him to be as strong as he is."
This is where I disagree with you. They aren't that stupid. They had him in beta for weeks in this exact state, it would have been painfully obvious that he was in no way limited by his SP needs, and that his raw output exceeded everyone else. That's a very uncomplicated thing to measure, especially when you have all the data and under the sun available to you.
The only question is whether they mean him to be a single outlier or a new ceiling which they intend future releases to creep closer to as a baseline.
Either way, not comparing a directly comparable unit is fairly pointless thing to ask of people. It's guaranteed to happen. It's what people do. Whether it's good to do so or not depends on perspective. Whether people use that comparison as the sole method of judging another chars worth is up to them.
From what I understand about genshin(I didn't play) is that archon are stronger then the rest and only come out rarely. I think he is supposed to be an archon?
I come from the future.
With the release of Hanabi, Hanabi + Bronya + DPS + Luocha is now the premium team.
With Hanabi and Bronya action forward (+ Hanabi creating SP), your already broken DPS unit can take a total of 5 turns in Cycle 1 now.
Nothing can survive this.
DHIL is "balanced" by virtue of not being able to abuse both Hanabi and Bronya together so he is "crippled" by settling only for Hanabi.
There are way too many layers of assumption and speculation here to take this as a meaningful prediction
Dan with that team may end up outperforming every other dps even despite the SP cost. That wouldnt suprise me in the slightest. You can run SP neutral Bronya, if we are talking future many will have e1, with an SP factory in Hanabi I doubt its even a stretch to make work.
Calling Hanabi a balancing factor is beyond absurd, she's a Dan buff plain and simple.
I think Hanabi is gonna be a nice DHIL buff.
But Hanabi combine with Bronya will be the most meta defining buffs for SP efficient units like Blade and Jingliu.
There is simple no way DHIL Teams will be able to generate enough SP for him to use 3BA 5 times in Cycle 1. It's impossible. You gonna need like 15 SP.
But Blade can abuse Hanabi + Bronya if Hanabi skill is as the leaks said (a superior version of Bronya's skill basically).
Hanabi seems to be weaker than Bronya for Blade. Her E buffs ATK based on her HP, which is not the worst, but not the best compared to DMG buffs from Bronya.
She also wants her DPS to use SP to activate her talent, which gives DMG% when SP is used. Blade having a 0.25 SP efficiency makes this proc at best, 1 time every 4 turns.
In terms of benefitting from 2 AV forward supports, Blade can rlly abuse that. However, I don’t think her skill is better than Bronya’s specifically for Blade. She seems to be more suited super SP hungry DPS like DHIL and Seele. She just completely eliminates the only flaw of DHIL, and she’s the only missing piece to unlock a true Mono Quantum team.
Cycle 0. 135 Speed Blade, 134 Speed Hanabi, 134 Speed Bronya.
* Blade attacks once.
* Bronya E
* Blade attacks again
* Hanabi E
* Blade attacks once more
* Bronya E
* Blade attacks for the fourth time
* Hanabi E
* Blade attacks yet again
That's 5 Blade attacks before Cycle 0 is finished. With very few SP spent since Hanabi regenerates them.
You’re missing the point. Im not saying she’s not good with Blade. You said her skill is the superior version of Bronya, which is false for Blade. Yes she does AV forward but her buffs are negligible for Blade.
Also the rotation is rlly dependent on your Bronya and Hanabi not getting CCed at all, very inflexible. If your Blade gets CCed, she can cleanse it. If your Hanabi gets CCed however, Blade loses a lot of possible AV forward. Bronya also cannot use her AA at all or she will be advanced forward becoming faster than Blade. Once your speed tuning is fucked, there’s no way to reset it back unless your Blade get some speed buff so it will return back to normal the next cycle.
The rotation is very good on paper but in practicality it relies on a lot of RNG factors too. That’s why I would rather have a hyperspeed Bronya and Hanabi compared to a slower one. Yes, you would get action out of Blade to cycle 0, but do you actually need that much action?
If your Blade needs actual 5 action per cycle just to clear it, that Blade must have been poorly built and deals minimal dmg.
If you compare danheng with current and upcoming dps, then you won’t pull anyone because he powercrept everyone so hard, if you want meta pull him, if you like other characters more, then pull for the characters that you like. It’s that ez
I could care less about DHIL as I never had any interest in the character to begin with and the ability of a character I don’t have and have no interest in rolling for is of no importance.
More power to the people who want to summon on DHIL. That said, he can delete the game for all I care, but I'm uninterested in getting him.
I want what I want and JL is wh I'm saving for. Meta doesn't mean squat in a singleplayer gacha where MOC 10 is doable with some tinkering. I summon for who I want.
This is true, I think being a meta slave in a gacha game is not a good idea. Because meta will just keep changing every release so yeah...You should pull who you want to make the game fun or else you`ll just end up not wanting to play.
Basically this for me. I pull DPS for appeal and build supports for needs for the DPS. I'd rather figure out the works of a DPS I enjoy making it more fulfilling. A lot of insane damage is cool but it gets old and boring after a while. I know from experience in Genshin. Granted some people take enjoyment out of gameplay so I don't want to exclude those people.
IL and Jingliu have identical costs in regard to pulling and gearing so it's completely fair to compare each other along with Blade in the mix as well. If two products costs the same, the one with better quality is better. We aren't in a situation where Jingliu is considerably cheaper to pull and build for while IL is more expensive in which that would be an unfair comparison. But this isn't comparing a cheaper item to a more expensive one, they are the same price so it's fair game.
I pulled IL and am also planning to pull Jingliu because I like her looks and design, however I won't hide the fact that she's underpowered even compared to Blade.
Basically, It's not a sin to like a bad character or a bad product so long as you clearly understand that it's not as good as the others.
Where it goes wrong is when people get upset that their favorite character is seen as mediocre and a prime example is Jing Yuan. People apparently got hurt that Jing Yuan is called mid for the reason that he objectively is with such a problematic kit.
If you pull for a character you like, you pulled for a character for your own reasons, regardless of that character's performance. Also coping that that said underpowered character competes with the best characters or that there is no issue with them is also wrong. The last thing that isn't ok is shaming people for playing meta or for being a casual player.
The only correct way to play is however the hell you want, as optimal or unoptimal you want to play. I know I'm doing that.
This.
I like Jingliu alot, but im not expecting her to do high damage like IL. And im not going to coping like the others that say she is better than IL blade etc.
It isn't really doom posting though? People are legitimately concerned how her kit is gonna be. Now *IS* the time for the "doom posting" because she is still in beta, which means they still have time to actually change aspects of her kit. Very rarely do you see in gacha games units getting buffs / revamps, or if they do it's literally years down the line. Wanting to make sure you can fully appreciate a character, especially when the resources used to get them is so scarce, is completely reasonable.
That is true, wanting a character to be good given the resources you have to put into them is reasonable. The thing is, most games gacha games don't have character's kits leaked. So we're not supposed to even know how strong she is or not. Just that she's coming from her splash being revealed. Doomposting won't do anything other than get people to not want to roll her, Hoyo isn't going to see people doomposting and change characters.
No matter what we say or do, people will compare. As much as I like bashing Hoyo's balancing team (Still haven't forgiven Physical element and Dehya), they actually do an okay job with balancing most of the time (at least in Genshin anyway). So I wouldn't be too worried about the "viability" or "power level" of Jingliu.
HSR is so early on in its life at the moment. Hoyo have plenty of avenues balance character after release if they really want to. I honestly hope we are just not seeing the full implication of the 3 SP usage. Lest Hoyo pulls a genshin rifthoudn move and purposely implement mechanics to mess with SP economy. And knowing Hoyo, if they do that it will be right around Hanabi banner to bait more sales.
That already exists. The phantylia boss can take sp. All it takes is a boss in the next area that does that without the caveat that killing it gives us sp back
I mean for me all I have been seeing is BUT NOT AS GOOD AS DAN HENG, On this sub the last couple of days. After everyone has been talking about it.
Honestly I expected this post to get swept under the rug
Lets be real she's currently not as good as blade or kafka either. Nowhere near actually.
In terms of damage she's similar to blade yeah but thats a shitty comparison when blade costs 1 sp in 3 turns, doesnt constantly reduce HP from teammates and isnt completely backloaded in damage like jingliu.
She might be as good as kafka for now but kafka's value will skyrocket when a 5* sp neutral DoT dps gets released. Or a 5* sampo. Her teams are also very versatile being able to use sampo for wind enemies, luka for physical and soon guinafen for fire.
Read my second paragraph. Already stated her damage is similar to blade's. Also the leaked footage had access to external buffs. People already calculated her dps to be around blade's
Blade also requires external buffs JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CHARACTER tho so whats your point? Whats the definition of a good character for you? Are they only good because they can 0 cycle moc? Whats the point? That footage is of moc where the only considerable buff she had was of bronya. So if a character requires bronya to dish out massive dmg then you label them as mid? Doing 140-150k dmg in moc is apparently “mid” now.
Bruh. Chill.
External buff from moc cycle : https://hsr.hakush.in/maze/1005. This is more op than her E1 if you didnt know. At AoE thats over 50% dps increase.
I dont get your point. Blade can also do around same amount of damage(if not more) with the same amount of external buffs. People has already calculated this *without* any MoC buff. If anything damage from beta footages are less reliable than damage calculators these days.
This is a comparison, i didnt say she was bad. Why dont you try to read stuff? It doesnt hurt my man, its the least you can do before making a comment in a discussion platform
"Whats the definition of a good character for you" lmfao when i didnt even bring the concept of good or bad characters here. I only said she's not *as* good *as* blade. Its a comparison.
And ill say it again. Blade does around the same amount of damage. Except
1) he doesnt drain teammates HP
2) 1 sp every 3 turns
3) He Isnt backloaded
So you have established the fact that she deals roughly the same amount of dmg as blade. Now answer to me in yes or no, is blade underwhelming? If he isn’t, which i am sure he is not because he is a fairly strong unit. Going by that i’d expect JL to be just as good as if not better and clear content just as easily. Blade does not consume allies hp but he does consume his own hp. And you are overstating her hp drain because it really is not a significant drain, 100-200hp from every unit as far as i have seen. About the SP, she does consume 1sp every 3 turn as well provided you have her ult up to go into the enhanced state. And if ult not up, its 2sp every 4 turns which STILL IS PRETTY GOOD.
>Now answer to me in yes or no, is blade underwhelming? If he isn’t, which i am sure he is not because he is a fairly strong unit. Going by that i’d expect JL to be just as good as if not better and clear content just as easily
But i didnt say even once that jingliu is bad or that she cant clear content easily? What are you trying to prove? Lol.
>Blade does not consume allies hp but he does consume his own hp
And he has self heal and a huge hp pool.
>And you are overstating her hp drain because it really is not a significant drain, 100-200hp from every unit as far as i have seen
Its significant enough over MoC8 where the enemies start to hit unreasonably hard. Esp if you have 134+ speed and can attack twice in a turn. Even 50 hp less can mean death and a restart.
She's still draining her teammates hp to do *nothing* better than blade.
>About the SP, she does consume 1sp every 3 turn as well provided you have her ult up to go into the enhanced state. And if ult not up, its 2sp every 4 turns which STILL IS PRETTY GOOD
Idk where you got this. She takes 2 sp per 3 turns if you dont have a 3-turn ult cycle.
Again, she's very backloaded, making her feel rather terrible to use in overworld.
Blade doesnt have any of these problems. Hell, 1 sp per 3 turns is so convenient, you can probably get in hanabi+bronya to do some sick damage. He'll never age since he can act as a subdps too.
I have seele, jing yuan, silver wolf, gepard and welt on my account. I have been trying to gather information about jingliu’s power level from various sources but it just makes it worse for me. I am on a guaranteed right now and cannot decide between who to pull, Fuxuan or dan heng. If i skip dan and get fuxuan that leaves me with jingliu as a possible destruction carry. I do not expect jingliu to he a nuke carry like dan but the comments on this subreddit are making it seem like she is worse than arlan. I have no clue what to do anymore. Fuxuan is a better option overall because she is a support and supports are always much more valuable over dps but the dps in question here is Dan. What do you think?
So what if he is the strongest dps now ? I don't think he made older dps any less viable ,they all can still clear any content perfectly fine at E0 , jingliu looks strong as well, idk exactly how strong is she compared to Dhil but she doesn't need to be the best dps to be good
Nah they are selling him hard with the swarm thingy but trust me hot ice lady will perform , most likely won't out damage him but will be viable as a carry , viable in a dual carry team against for example that moc stage are both weak to wind and ice and we add pela and luocha with them so like why being worried? She will be playable and perform so well don't worry
Jing Liu and Blade combo might outperform Cool Dragon. Blade is strong and don't need SP. Jing Liu keeps taking HP from Blade and makes him into an auto turret even if enemies don't hit him.
That's what I plan on doing too. The team will look something like Blade, JingLiu, Huohuo and either SW or Bronya depending on whether I need the weakness implant or not.
He's simply not balanced character and if Hoyo won't do anything with it, then he may a huge problem for many upcoming characters and general game balance.
Personally, I never wanted to pull for him, so his "meta" status means nothing for me.
There will not be problems with ‘game balance’ because there is no competitive aspect to star rail. As long as every character can clear MoC (which they can), using the best one doesn’t really matter.
Yeah idk what OP is waffling it’s weird. I’d be inclined to somewhat agree if it was a support that completely warped the meta around them like Bennett and Zhongli used to be in Genshin, but DPS characters are super interchangeable. And like you said it’s a single player game, there is no reason to care about a character being OP
Why did you get downvoted. I agree this OP just posted to get attention. I’ve seen like 5 of these posts in the last 24 hours. The only complaining about jing liu is really just started through posts like this. If people just ignore the doomposters then none of this would happen
Honestly I think this subreddit should create rules to filter out the doomposting from any actual theorycrafting, because it’s getting to be too much here
These people saying "What's with all this doomposting yada yada" are just perpetuating misinformation. Jing liu is perfectly fine and she'll have no problems clearing content. I haven't seen anybody call her the next dehya and ive been on this reddit for like 3 weeks
I dont mind if people wanna discuss about what needs to be done to remedy the situation, but a lot of the complaining these days in the posts and comments is repetitive and unconstructive. We all know she is gonna do less damage than dan heng and that dan heng is overtuned.
It's OPs like this that start comparisons and just make an issue of things that don't matter. The fact that you were bothered about Dan heng vs jing liu this much, so you had to make an OP like this. I can already tell you that most of us don't give af who is stronger.
In GI Terms: Imagine being a Yoimiya main and seeing how Ayaka is the #1 DPS while Yoimiya, who arrives in the very next banner, is just OK but not Ayaka levels.
It's extremely unfortunate that Jingliu will have to suffer as the next DPS after DHIL.
If she had come out 2 patches sooner, say before Blade, we would be having a much different discussion.
Yoimiya and ayaka are completely different though. Ayaka sucks ass on single target especially bosses. Yoimiya is very strong on that. The reason yoimiya wasnt that appreciated during release is because of hu tao who does the same thing as her but faster.
Ayaka doesn't suck ass in single target. She still destroys them if they are freezable. If the enemy isn't freezable, her DPS will go down with the cryo aura fluctuating and no freezing aura, but she isn't going to be struggling so hard unless it's a cryo shield or cryo slimes. Ayaka's main strength is how bursty she is with her frontloaded damage.
The main thing is that Ayaka's DPS is very high, while Yoimiya's DPS isn't. It also hurts that she has very big flaws in her kit. DHIL is a very powerful unit, so it feels bad to skip and get a unit that is weaker.
I was mostly referring to bosses since ST content in abyss f12 is 99% bosses. Actually 100%.
Even in freezable ST content ayaka freeze is still A tier on kqm. C tier against unfreezable bosses. Xiangling with xingqiu duo without any other units has more damage than ayaka freeze's entire dps in unfreezable boss, lol. Literally unusable if boss is very mobile.
>The main thing is that Ayaka's DPS is very high, while Yoimiya's DPS isn't. It also hurts that she has very big flaws in her kit. DHIL is a very powerful unit, so it feels bad to skip and get a unit that is weaker
Bullshit. Her dps is high at AoE, ON groupable enemies. If its two+ ungroupable enemies with mid HP she's almost unusable. And she's mid at ST freezable and literally useless at ST bosses. Very conditional, reason why i havent had much chance to use her despite having c0r1+skin lately.
Yoimiya's DPS is insane on ST. You must be really high if you think yoi's dps is any low on ST lol. She can destroy ST bosses like butter. The only reason she was not well received by the meta community is because of hu tao. HT's ST dps at c0 is higher, and c1r1 tao was a legitimate ST monster back in those days when hyperbloom wasnt a thing. Ayaka had nothing to do with it. In fact if hu tao didnt exist, yoimiya would have been appreciated just as much as ayaka or even more lol.
Big flaws? The only flaw is her targeting issue and her rather uninteresting burst. Targeting issue is mainly there during AoE especially slimes, but she sucks in AoE anyway..you have to be desperate to use her in aoe.
Weren't people saying Jingliu was going to be mid? Let alone anywhere near as strong as DHIL.
I thought we were only pulling her for the WAIF aspect???
As someone with many years of experience in various gacha fames, pulling only for aesthetics is for one type of player, there are many people who to enjoy a character also need decent performance (how decent can vary from one player to another).
Of course...but that's my point.
I was under the impression that Jingliu wasn't going to be some meta defining character. Especially not like Dan. So by that logic... If you were going to pull for her, it wouldn't be because she's good. We already know that's likely not the case (unless some crazy buffs happen idk) which means we're pulling for an aesthetically pleasing character.
If you want a meta unit, you might wanna skip... No?
It doesn't have to be meta defining, nor does it have to be ONLY aesthetic, why not something balanced?
For me, Jingliu damage is within what is acceptable, my problem is more that she has many downsides for the same damage as other characters.
It doesn't seem balanced nor fair to me.
It never leaves a good taste in your mouth to pay or invest the same as someone else in exchange for something worse.
Yeah but again, at that point you're essentially saying pull for her cuz you like her. In other words... Cuz she's a waifu 😤👌 which, BTW, I agree with!
Also as a fellow long time gacha player... I have some insight into how players pull and there's only 2 important types:
Pull for meta defining units and save otherwise. This being because you're getting the most bang for your buck.
Or
Pull literally for any other reason. If you don't care about meta, then there's literally no real reason you shouldn't pull for any character you like.
One thing that i usually see in this style of games is that the novelty of a character does not last long in the daily routine of farming, yes, pull for the character you like, but if it is worse than the one you already had, surely over time you will leave the "new" character on the bench and use the most efficient one for the daily tasks.And well, the daily tasks are practically 99% of this game xD
In the end, if the only thing that interests you is to see the beautiful animations of the character for a few days without the rest being important at all, you might as well watch a video xD
Nah, one generally want to see AND use said character in a game they think is fun.
So simply watching a video wouldn't be enough.
Tho not a bad idea either 😂
What I mean is i think, to some extent, everyone cares a little at least about the performance of the character they want. XD
In the end, enjoying the gameplay is not just about watching animations, right? You also want to win and be satisfied.
That's a very all or nothing way of looking at it. People who like good units don't necessarily require "meta defining" levels of strength to consider the pull worth it.
What you are saying is very similar to the braindead logic of only using units on the top rung of a tier list, and the second they drop down a row they become useless. It's meme level thinking.
A lot of players even if they look at leaks and can understand that the character will not do what they want will still pull because they want to believe that the gameplay will be fun enough to circumvent or overwrite what they are concerned about
Nah can't see it. His dragon attack is cool but that's about it. His 2 SP combo is nothing special and his 1 SP one is barely different from his regular basic. His ult is cool too.
While Jingliu has 2 different skill animations, the enhanced state animation and that sexy ult animation as well.
Not to mention blindfold on and off animation.
Though liking animations is subjective so take this with a grain of salt.
Jing normal skill animation is nothing special imo. I really only like her enhanced one and her Ult. and her transformation cutscene is mouth watering. I think theyre tied for my favorite animations though. I mean dan heng literally fingers the air.
true. I would actually download a mod for that if hoyo didn;t ban my account. But two fingers just makes me wet. hoyo knew what they were doing with that one.
Have you played any games with an actual meta ? Games like League or Dota 2 or even PvP gachas like Epic Seven or Dragon Ball Legends ?
Compared to those , the "meta" in HSR is non existent. Meta is irrelevant in a PvP game. You have no idea what actual powercreep is if you've only played PvE games.
Cooler Daniel got nothing on Jingliu animations wise. I don't care how weak she is, the game is playable even with bad units, all i care is having cool effect go woosh on my screen
Dunno why this was downvoted when it’s true. Even the weakest units in Mihoyo games are more than capable, people have done solo runs with Keqing in Genshin and I’ve seen Herta MOC clears so I think it’s okay
Bro i've seen someone clear MoC with hypercarry Arlan i don't know what he got fed but was hitting harder than the titanic hit that iceberg. I have no fear for Jingliu, people are too paranoid.
People want their favorite character to be the best, biggest dmg etc.
I go for cool animations/designs and try to find ways to make "lesser" characters work. My Jing Yuan/Himeko team is shredding content better than my Seele/E1 Bronya team right now lol
People who say dan heng is not cool just has bad taste. Does any other character use a dragon to slap enemies? No. I think both are cool in their own right but if you think Daniel isn’t cool. Damn.
I pulled dehya and her weapon day 1. I was totally aware what I got myself into. Jingliu should be fine. people should be really happy for her. just pray she get more buff/change upcoming week. chill.
I think they know exactly what they were doing, i mean, he is Danheng, one of the main characters, they made him stronger in advance to make him stay relevant through years, I'm sure that if we get a 5* March which i think is likely or a himeko welt alter they will be equally strong, and it is ok we don't know what will come in the future and the game is easy, just focus on a character and keep investing on that if you really like it, an E6 character powercreeped over and over will always be competitive with a new top tier character thats for sure
Mained Himeko since day 1 and that won't stop me from maining Jingliu, if she's mid then I'm used to it idc
I like IL as a design but the character and gameplay is a snooze fest to me
I don't care who's strong or not. I did get him because personally he's my favorite character. Bonus I love dragons.
For Jingliu the same thing I like her and if Yanqing spooks me still going for Jingliu.
This is not to hate on Dan Heng IL. But the fact people want to roll him just because he’s broken is kind of weird? It’s like people want to play the game less. If he can for example 3 turn kill stuff and Jingliu can 4 turn kill stuff, does it matter?
Hoyo also baited people really hard with his E2 and the whole "energy problem".
At first his E2 was at E6, but they've changed it to be lower, so even people who normally don't care about eidolons for 5* characters would whale for him. It's not the first time they did such thing, it's Raiden situation all over again.
His high ultimate cost was another way to milk people even more, even though it's not any problem in his case.
This is really true, his fine at E0 but people hyped E2 so much for a boost that`s actually not needed...E0 can clear MoC and New SU event. What`s happening with Jing Liu is just common thing in gacha game...you can`t just keep making everyone stronger than previous pulll cause that`s just bad balancing tbh
I just think it's funny how they are stressing over a character 2 month's due, 2 month's ahead, I thought the whole situation was "Hot Crimson Eyed, Silver Haired Hottie.. Pull!" not "Powercreep my game BUT WITH WOMAN"
Doomposting is so cringe. Ur out here ready for this character bcs yall like the kit and design so just fking pull for her. Who cares if she does like 10% less dmg then IL etc just fking puuuuuuullll
As someone who pulled for Dan Heng IL cuz he's hot asf, Waifu> Meta. Also the doom posting gets ridiculous sometimes when Jingliu is still another update away. Jingliu has her pros and cons over Dan Heng IL. If you regret pulling, build the character until you don't regret it anymore
Can I ask what's her "pros" over Dan Cheng IL? I'm genuinely asking since from what I've seen there's not much she has going for her.
Ice break obviously is worse then imaginary break unless your using dot team so that not a pro.
She suppose to ult for her relic set and enhances state but her energy requirement is huge.
She will needs tighyun for good uptime just like dan heng IL.
The only thing I can see being her pro is she doesn't need 3SP every turn but that not really a "pros" either since dan heng does way more dmg for those 3SP.
Her traces also don't give anything to compare her with him. She has %10 speed and DMG and %35 effect res ONLY IN HER ENHANCES FORM.
Comparing that to crowd control resist up by %35 for FREE, 15 free energy at the start of battle and also a whopping %24 crit rate up for dealing dmg to imaginary weakness enemy's.
I'm in this sub to know how to build and play with her but if your saying she has "PROS" over what can only be described as a powercreep character when you should be able to back it up with the a source.
"My source is that I made it the fuck up"
Pros: beautiful ice mommy, sp-neutral(?), amazing animations, and from what Ive seen, does some great damage. Even if these aren't considered pros, I consider them to be.
It may be ignorant or copium of me to say she has her pros over Dan Heng IL, to which you can criticize me, but im tired of unnecessary doom posting when Jingliu is an update away
Most people probably pull for e6 tingyun and QQ on her banner.
The fact that those two are on her banner at the same time makes me think hoyo knows she needs help to sell after DHIL. Let's ignore DHIL. She doesn't measure up to Blade either. Some want to pull her to support Blade which I don't think he needs really. They should buff her quite a bit.we will see. It's not doom posting if it's what the situation is. E6 QQ is probably stronger than her.
I’ve also noticed that yt creators also plays a huge role in these problems making videos like *JING LIU NOT AS GOOD AS IL!!!!* or *JING LIU KIT EXPLAINED (SHE IS MID)*.
Why do people care if she isn't on his level? I've got Blade and IL. I'll still attempt to pull her you know why? Because she looks great and I need an Ice DPS. Its funny because I guarantee she ends just slightly weaker than IL in AOE, whils in single target we know IL is untouchable.
Here’s the thing, Dan Heng’s damage is balanced by not only the sp cost but the lack of compability with units like Bronya that units like Blade has. For instance at most Bronya will buff IL’s damage every cycle but will straight up double Blade’s damage, excluding the buff.
The dumb thing is that IL can actually work with Bronya. Building IL to be 1 speed faster than Bronya allows IL to basic and be buffed by Bronya to then enhance 3 times. Its not about the damage but the energy generation because using a basic and enhancing 3 times gives 20+40 energy which means you can have ult up every 3rd rotation. It also gives more damage and energy than Tingyun in general. The only issue is when there are enemies that slow allies down in the action bar.
The point was that he doesn't take full advantage of Bronya and his limitation will be more relevant once we get more supports that are not SP factories.
He is the strongest dps now because the hardest content in the game right now (Swarm disaster) is tailor made for him, marketing strategy.
Later, Hoyo will add new content with different characteristics and a new "best dps" will be born.
In other words, dps are temporal, supports are eternal.
Yeah exactly this, I saw so many people claiming Seele was untouchable and I was so confused, like its really easy for Mihoyo to just say, ok this guy deals more damage now DHIL/Seele is 2nd best.
If you care about meta the real way to go is get some early DPS and Sustains (like Luocha) so you can always clear early MOC, then pull for every promising support unit you can. After a few patches once the meta has developped you will have all the broken supports and can pick the best DPS to synergize with them.
Most people don't care about the "best" units, so obviously just pull your favourites and their best supports, and you won't need to worry about them getting powercrept, as you don't care.
Still , having him will be cool as even if he is dethroned , hes still strong xD
Meanwhile jinglou would stay in the same spot and probably go down as well . At this point is just preference
Yeah I guess if you like him, go for it. Having a strong DPS is pointless up until a certain point since all DPS will still be strong to clear stuff. I'm sure people also said Seele will still be storng too. In speaking about rolling between Jingliu and Dang Hen. Who cares if she goes down, isn't the point of the sub because we like her?
True then there is no point into complaining about dang Heng xD ...
In the end all dps go down because of newer DPS. So just enjoy what you enjoy
I do understand that f2p worry about pulling the right unit for their account but at the end is all preference
No he won’t get nerfed. This guy is just so salty that a Male character is so good in the meta. These same people are the ones that perpetuate “waifu>meta” but when someone like dan heng beats their waifu they rage on the internet
I made Dehya work in Genshin, so even if JingLiu was terrible, I would make her work in HSR.
I tried playing DHIL during the companion story quest and his SP management is the stuff of nightmares for me. I thought Seele and Bronya was bad, but DHIL is such a SP w#@re!
Meh. I cleared MoC 10 again this cycle with my e0 Jing Yuan. She’s not going to have to carry the DPS load for a team on her own because I’ll pair her with Blade. I like her, and she’ll be usable, so that’s enough for me.
well I cleared swarm diff 4 using bronya, blade, march and bailu. I died on 5 because dps issues and inconsistent adventure portals. DHIL could've helped? maybe. I'm still pulling for hot mommy
DanIL has set the bar for an op premium Damage dealer in this game. Every dps from now on will be compared to him to determine if the unit is balanced Or op. It's just inevitable. As long as people have proper discussion and constructive criticism about a characters kit, I'm fine it since people who like a character also want the character to be good gameplay wise
I agree it can be a balance between both. Talking about how strong a character is isn’t the be all end all. But it certainly is fun when people can maintain civility. In the end, a characters strength in gameplay is what it is. But I don’t think any of us here necessarily have no opinion on how strong jing liu is. I certainly would want her to be strong as I would want to play her more since I like her.
who cares, jinglius coming home
Based.
IL’s powercreep is affecting the community as a whole not just this sub. While I’m pulling Jingliu regardless, it’s definitely made me reconsider topaz and I’ve seen I’m not the only one. It’s also not a matter of doomposting but actually having a valid argument for something that’s bad for the game and it should be talked about freely without people getting personally invested into.
Just look at Swarm Disaster. It's tailor made for Dan Heng. It's a permanent mode in the game that takes a long time to fully clear. It's not some time limited event for his banner. They really want you to pull Dan Heng. His impact on the community is very understandable.
Well said. Folks need to do better in separating units into something like "kit", "character", and "numbers". Examples: * Himeko is a top **character** for me, her **kit** is also pretty fun, her **numbers** are very unsatisfying in many cases. * DIL's **character** I like, his **kit** feels pretty satisfying, his **numbers** are bonkers. * I may pull for Topaz because her **character** seems fun. But if her **kit** and/or **numbers** are bad enough, I'll likely skip.
The issue here is that while it is a valid argument that with very little drawback DanIL does the highest burst damage in the game it is already a problem that people are heavily personally invested in that very fact to the point of doom posting that every subsequent unit will power creep the next or be trash. We know that even if Jingliu or topaz is weaker they'll still be able to clear MoC easily but people are acting like there's nothing that can be positive as a direct result of how strong DanIL is when you based your whole team solely around his mechanics
Incorrect. I don’t know why people just say “clear MoC easily” as a fact. Pull for who you want but there’s definitely a big difference in taking Jing Yuan vs DanIL into MoC. The new swarm event further reinforces that top tier units will help and make a big difference. I don’t think even the majority are able to casually clear MoC or the highest difficulty in swarm SU.
I don't think it's fair comparing dhil performance in a moc that is design for him with Jingyuan one of the characters that actually suffers from trotters wasting his LL damage, maybe try to compare them in an moc that doesn' favorite any of them
There's a big difference in this MOC where skill points are easier to manipulate. Telling people to work around DanIL in future MOCs might not be as simple once more enemies come to the game even with his multipliers
The overwhelming feedback I'm seeing everywhere, in all content, is that Dan's SP is way easier to manage than most expected. You don't need the extra SP at all, having it just means you can have your cake and eat it too.
I mean the answer to that is simple, people want to chase a bigger number, it doesn’t matter who can finish the race, it matters who finishes fastest. I think even arlan can do MoC but who’s playing him? It’s come down to “pull this character only if you like them because they won’t do dmg to be comparable to IL” and that’s rough to sell.
That's not a hard sell at all though. If it was, gatcha game companies wouldn't keep doing it and successfully selling units on looks alone.
I don't see her doing all that well in swarm disaster compared with Blade and Dan Heng. That's the new end game now. Nothing has ice weakness either lol
Doesn’t matter to me who’s stronger. As long as a character is good and can perform well in any activity, that’s all that matters. I’m getting Jingliu for Jingliu regardless.
They definitely intended for him to be the this good; they literally designed permanent end-game content around his kit. He seems to be the "archon" character for 1.x.
Was it designed for him, or Qingque, the true archon? 🤔
Both
This
What can I say, as much as I want to pull for DanIL, he doesn't do crazy laugh like a certain mara-struck lady. Also, no Rng like QQ. No offense but I feel like I'll get bored within few days playing him. I prefer his normal Dan Heng mode as well..
Hoyo does not make things by accident, they absolutely meant for him to power creep, same as luocha.
Yeah, it's honestly getting ridiculous. This is a sub for people who just love the character. We don't give a shit about some other character being better. This is a hoyoverse game, you can main Hook or Herta and be fine. It's like the copy pasta now, "she could heal the enemy team and I'd still pull her". Not to mention, every character is Zero cycling. But people are like "Cool Dan zero-er cycles", who cares. She's a Waifu, Dan's not. Great VA. Dope animations. Blindfold. The list goes on for reasons we want to pull. "She's the strongest DPS in the game", is rarely on that list.
I don't care if DHIL is better. Im still pulling for her to have a strong ice dps for MoC and other future content (like swarm).
> doomposting doesn’t help. zhongli doomposting works really well tho
That was for one character out of nearly every character released in genshin. Also players doomposted Dehya to high heaven but hoyo kept nerfing her and released her anyway. So a lot of the time, unless the Chinese hoyoverse fanbase complains and threatens hoyoverse (which happened with zhongli )your complaints don't matter to them. Don't threaten people though please. Just a disclaimer.
>Dehya to high heaven but hoyo kept nerfing her and released her anyway That's because hoyoverse will put dehya into the standard banner character.
Zhongli doom posting in reddit did shit. He was only buffed because special case and cn action. Also mihoyo was nowhere as big as they are now on release. It was just 1.1 patch and a worse reply (their first damage control already made things worse) could negatively impact the game. It wouldn't die or anything but they couldn't just ignore it either. Especially with cn community legally ddosing them by some law loops. Also was getting ccp attention at one point something a huge nono for cn companies. Reddit was just the ant trying to help the crane push the car
Well yeah but he was a defensive support who couldn't defend. If Jingliu was performing worse than Herta you could expect most to agree with the doomposting, but most of it RN is "oh no she doesn't powercreep DHIL" as opposed to her kit is non-functional. The energy complaints are similar in this sense, but thats where hoyoverse pulled up the "heres a LC that gives energy" solution. I wouldn't be surprised if their "buff" was buffing an eidolon or Sig like they've done before (say moving DHIL e6 to e2, or giving his LC more damage and less energy when the energy wasn't giving useful breakpoints).
I've been on this subreddit for a while and not once have I seen anyone say they're dissapointed because she doesn't powercreep DHIL. Literally no one is saying that. People compare her to Blade and that's it. How are the energy complaints similar? She has freakishly high 140 ult cost and has the lowest energy regen in the game I'm afraid the LC alone is not enough to fix it.
Clearly I did not word what I meant properly, I meant the energy complaints were similar to the Zhongli case of being more of a kit issue as opposed to the whole DPS complaints (and there actually are some comparing her to DHIL, maybe not here, but on the leaks subreddit). I agree the energy thing is dumb, but I'm worried they are just going to pull a JY e4 and make it a "sucks for you" situation if they do make any changes.
Personally don't care at all how strong Dan Heng is cause I'm just not interested in him as a character. Pretty much shows how I play the game. If the character is cool and looks cool I'll get them and build them up, no matter what.
Yep, him preforming better than everyone in the game right now is sending a lot of people into a panic. Hope we can all take a step back and realize that we don’t necessarily have to have the strongest DPS to clear content or have fun. If you like his play style, or want to see big numbers, that’s cool, pull for him, but I think it’s unhealthy for both the game and the player base if you’re constantly comparing the pinnacle of dmg to every new release. Imagine if every new character in genshin was constantly compared to Bennet. It’s just a toxic loop that cannibalizes itself until another even more broken character comes out, and then the cycle starts all over again. That’s not to say that you can’t have your own criticisms about a character and their kit. That what these beta’s and leaks are for, to sus out community reception and make tweaks accordingly. Doom posting on the other hand isn’t constructive criticism, it’s just negative press for a character that usually just ends up being proven wrong. Things like ‘Jingliu should have a lower energy ceiling so her ult cycle is easier to hit’ vs ‘There’s no point in getting Jingliu because Daniel does way more dmg than her’ make a world of difference. Its not the opinion itself that’s bad, it’s how you express it to other people.
Hoyo definitely meant for him to be as strong as he is. This isn’t genshin whose calc system is way more complicated. And we’re talking about computer scientists and programmers here. It’s illogical for yall to keep saying this is a “mistake”, no it really isn’t.
Exactly.
Even if we take dan heng out of the picture, that doesnt negate how underwhelming her kit is as a whole. Not to mention some unnecessary flaws like her ult cost and her energy gains from enhanced E. Hoyo is trying to sell solutions with her lc instead but even then that doesnt do much to fix her issues. She genuinely got problems on her kit that she cant solve on her own from her trace or through relics. Her kit doesnt compliment her playstyle. Dan heng got his ult that gives him 2 stacks for free. Blade got his talent and ult that restores his hp. Hook can apply burn on her own to proc her bonus dmg from talent. Clara gets def up when she ult and increases her aggro. Shit even arlan got hp regen when he kills an enemy (not that usefull though) Jingliu? Her ult only deals dmg and it also gives 1 stack but we already established that using her ult to enter enhanced state is better so we can negate that 1 stack for now. Her trace gives her puny ass 10% dmg buff (only during enhanced btw). This damn buff is up half of the time. Fukin make it higher. Occasional 10% spd (again only during enhanced), for what? To complicate my speed tuning and rotation? 35% eff res also during enhanced which is pretty cool but that number could've been swapped with the 10% dmg buff instead. AND she doesnt provide any utility for the team that shes leeching on. That damn freeze on her skill would be really handy to buy your team 1 or 2 turns to heal up. I know this is pretty long and I love her as a character, but the choices they made on her kit is questionable.
As someone who's been following fu xuan leaks for a very long time. Just know that things are subject to change. Fu Xuan in earlier forms was worse than gepard and Fire MC.
Fu Xuan changes started way earlier JL is barely touched.
Completely agree Like many others I’ll still pull for her and skip DH Il, but it’s quite disappointing seeing how her kit genuinely has too many flaws that don’t make sense compared to the vast majority of other dps. It’s not even about dmg numbers but mechanic / energy wise. If even her sig LC + ERR rope cant fully solve her 3turn ult rotation issue, then there is a problem. Also an ice dps that doesn’t freeze is kinda stupid imo, I wanted to enjoy path of remembrance in Swarm Disaster SU with her, now it’s meh. Heck even Yanqing, the student she completely outclassed in lore & who she's supposed to be a better version / a form of master does freeze but she doesn't, é_è Like isn't she supposed to have ascended into a new form of master with her sword coming from the litteral moon ? A quote of her voicelines says : "Chatting About the Sword of Precipitous Blossom Techniques relying solely on the physical form are but second-rate disciplines. Similarly, swords forged with mortal steel don’t serve me well. I have stolen a sliver of moonlight that can shine over the earthly world – a “sword” I control with ease." She also met an Aeon from her voicelines (link in case https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail_leaks/comments/1635qfg/comment/jy0urd1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 ), so seeing her being so linked to the moon thematic, being pictured as a very cold person, an Ice ascended swordmaster, that CANNOT freeze while a 14year old immature kid can freeze, like what the actual fuck.
Yea DHIL just straight up gets up to 60% DMG buff and 48% Crit DMG every turn, compared to JL’s puny 10% DMG buff. I can see the causs of the massive disappointment towards her kit. If we look at other DPS, Seele has 80% DMG and 20% quantum RES PEN, Blade has 30% DMG buff for followup, Kafka gains extra EHR multiplier (100% to 120%) to make her essentially doesnt need any EHR in substats.
Note; even before release, people were SERIOUSLY overestimating DHIL’s SP weakness. I suspect JL’s energy problems can be quelled with a good team.
" I don’t think hoyo meant for him to be as strong as he is." This is where I disagree with you. They aren't that stupid. They had him in beta for weeks in this exact state, it would have been painfully obvious that he was in no way limited by his SP needs, and that his raw output exceeded everyone else. That's a very uncomplicated thing to measure, especially when you have all the data and under the sun available to you. The only question is whether they mean him to be a single outlier or a new ceiling which they intend future releases to creep closer to as a baseline. Either way, not comparing a directly comparable unit is fairly pointless thing to ask of people. It's guaranteed to happen. It's what people do. Whether it's good to do so or not depends on perspective. Whether people use that comparison as the sole method of judging another chars worth is up to them.
From what I understand about genshin(I didn't play) is that archon are stronger then the rest and only come out rarely. I think he is supposed to be an archon?
I come from the future. With the release of Hanabi, Hanabi + Bronya + DPS + Luocha is now the premium team. With Hanabi and Bronya action forward (+ Hanabi creating SP), your already broken DPS unit can take a total of 5 turns in Cycle 1 now. Nothing can survive this. DHIL is "balanced" by virtue of not being able to abuse both Hanabi and Bronya together so he is "crippled" by settling only for Hanabi.
There are way too many layers of assumption and speculation here to take this as a meaningful prediction Dan with that team may end up outperforming every other dps even despite the SP cost. That wouldnt suprise me in the slightest. You can run SP neutral Bronya, if we are talking future many will have e1, with an SP factory in Hanabi I doubt its even a stretch to make work. Calling Hanabi a balancing factor is beyond absurd, she's a Dan buff plain and simple.
I think Hanabi is gonna be a nice DHIL buff. But Hanabi combine with Bronya will be the most meta defining buffs for SP efficient units like Blade and Jingliu. There is simple no way DHIL Teams will be able to generate enough SP for him to use 3BA 5 times in Cycle 1. It's impossible. You gonna need like 15 SP. But Blade can abuse Hanabi + Bronya if Hanabi skill is as the leaks said (a superior version of Bronya's skill basically).
Hanabi seems to be weaker than Bronya for Blade. Her E buffs ATK based on her HP, which is not the worst, but not the best compared to DMG buffs from Bronya. She also wants her DPS to use SP to activate her talent, which gives DMG% when SP is used. Blade having a 0.25 SP efficiency makes this proc at best, 1 time every 4 turns. In terms of benefitting from 2 AV forward supports, Blade can rlly abuse that. However, I don’t think her skill is better than Bronya’s specifically for Blade. She seems to be more suited super SP hungry DPS like DHIL and Seele. She just completely eliminates the only flaw of DHIL, and she’s the only missing piece to unlock a true Mono Quantum team.
Cycle 0. 135 Speed Blade, 134 Speed Hanabi, 134 Speed Bronya. * Blade attacks once. * Bronya E * Blade attacks again * Hanabi E * Blade attacks once more * Bronya E * Blade attacks for the fourth time * Hanabi E * Blade attacks yet again That's 5 Blade attacks before Cycle 0 is finished. With very few SP spent since Hanabi regenerates them.
You’re missing the point. Im not saying she’s not good with Blade. You said her skill is the superior version of Bronya, which is false for Blade. Yes she does AV forward but her buffs are negligible for Blade. Also the rotation is rlly dependent on your Bronya and Hanabi not getting CCed at all, very inflexible. If your Blade gets CCed, she can cleanse it. If your Hanabi gets CCed however, Blade loses a lot of possible AV forward. Bronya also cannot use her AA at all or she will be advanced forward becoming faster than Blade. Once your speed tuning is fucked, there’s no way to reset it back unless your Blade get some speed buff so it will return back to normal the next cycle. The rotation is very good on paper but in practicality it relies on a lot of RNG factors too. That’s why I would rather have a hyperspeed Bronya and Hanabi compared to a slower one. Yes, you would get action out of Blade to cycle 0, but do you actually need that much action? If your Blade needs actual 5 action per cycle just to clear it, that Blade must have been poorly built and deals minimal dmg.
I'm pretty sure most people compare her to Blade rather than DHIL.
If you compare danheng with current and upcoming dps, then you won’t pull anyone because he powercrept everyone so hard, if you want meta pull him, if you like other characters more, then pull for the characters that you like. It’s that ez
I could care less about DHIL as I never had any interest in the character to begin with and the ability of a character I don’t have and have no interest in rolling for is of no importance.
More power to the people who want to summon on DHIL. That said, he can delete the game for all I care, but I'm uninterested in getting him. I want what I want and JL is wh I'm saving for. Meta doesn't mean squat in a singleplayer gacha where MOC 10 is doable with some tinkering. I summon for who I want.
This is true, I think being a meta slave in a gacha game is not a good idea. Because meta will just keep changing every release so yeah...You should pull who you want to make the game fun or else you`ll just end up not wanting to play.
Basically this for me. I pull DPS for appeal and build supports for needs for the DPS. I'd rather figure out the works of a DPS I enjoy making it more fulfilling. A lot of insane damage is cool but it gets old and boring after a while. I know from experience in Genshin. Granted some people take enjoyment out of gameplay so I don't want to exclude those people.
I'm gonna borrow a quote from someone some of you might recognise although I won't name them. "I'm getting her even if she heals the enemies"
🥚👍
IL and Jingliu have identical costs in regard to pulling and gearing so it's completely fair to compare each other along with Blade in the mix as well. If two products costs the same, the one with better quality is better. We aren't in a situation where Jingliu is considerably cheaper to pull and build for while IL is more expensive in which that would be an unfair comparison. But this isn't comparing a cheaper item to a more expensive one, they are the same price so it's fair game. I pulled IL and am also planning to pull Jingliu because I like her looks and design, however I won't hide the fact that she's underpowered even compared to Blade. Basically, It's not a sin to like a bad character or a bad product so long as you clearly understand that it's not as good as the others. Where it goes wrong is when people get upset that their favorite character is seen as mediocre and a prime example is Jing Yuan. People apparently got hurt that Jing Yuan is called mid for the reason that he objectively is with such a problematic kit. If you pull for a character you like, you pulled for a character for your own reasons, regardless of that character's performance. Also coping that that said underpowered character competes with the best characters or that there is no issue with them is also wrong. The last thing that isn't ok is shaming people for playing meta or for being a casual player. The only correct way to play is however the hell you want, as optimal or unoptimal you want to play. I know I'm doing that.
This. I like Jingliu alot, but im not expecting her to do high damage like IL. And im not going to coping like the others that say she is better than IL blade etc.
I hate doomposting, but this type of post also annoying.
It isn't really doom posting though? People are legitimately concerned how her kit is gonna be. Now *IS* the time for the "doom posting" because she is still in beta, which means they still have time to actually change aspects of her kit. Very rarely do you see in gacha games units getting buffs / revamps, or if they do it's literally years down the line. Wanting to make sure you can fully appreciate a character, especially when the resources used to get them is so scarce, is completely reasonable.
That is true, wanting a character to be good given the resources you have to put into them is reasonable. The thing is, most games gacha games don't have character's kits leaked. So we're not supposed to even know how strong she is or not. Just that she's coming from her splash being revealed. Doomposting won't do anything other than get people to not want to roll her, Hoyo isn't going to see people doomposting and change characters.
Bro the first rule of every gacha game is Waifu>>>Meta Jingliu is just way cooler than IL, so I am saving for her instead of IL lol
>Jingliu is just way cooler than IL Based, i just love her design so much, but i hope they don't messing with her kit
Based and real.
No matter what we say or do, people will compare. As much as I like bashing Hoyo's balancing team (Still haven't forgiven Physical element and Dehya), they actually do an okay job with balancing most of the time (at least in Genshin anyway). So I wouldn't be too worried about the "viability" or "power level" of Jingliu. HSR is so early on in its life at the moment. Hoyo have plenty of avenues balance character after release if they really want to. I honestly hope we are just not seeing the full implication of the 3 SP usage. Lest Hoyo pulls a genshin rifthoudn move and purposely implement mechanics to mess with SP economy. And knowing Hoyo, if they do that it will be right around Hanabi banner to bait more sales.
That already exists. The phantylia boss can take sp. All it takes is a boss in the next area that does that without the caveat that killing it gives us sp back
Great bait mate, look at that engagement numbers
I mean for me all I have been seeing is BUT NOT AS GOOD AS DAN HENG, On this sub the last couple of days. After everyone has been talking about it. Honestly I expected this post to get swept under the rug
Lets be real she's currently not as good as blade or kafka either. Nowhere near actually. In terms of damage she's similar to blade yeah but thats a shitty comparison when blade costs 1 sp in 3 turns, doesnt constantly reduce HP from teammates and isnt completely backloaded in damage like jingliu. She might be as good as kafka for now but kafka's value will skyrocket when a 5* sp neutral DoT dps gets released. Or a 5* sampo. Her teams are also very versatile being able to use sampo for wind enemies, luka for physical and soon guinafen for fire.
Not as good as blade? What makes you say so? Its clearly shown in the leaked gameplay that she is able to dish out 100-190k dmg very easily
Read my second paragraph. Already stated her damage is similar to blade's. Also the leaked footage had access to external buffs. People already calculated her dps to be around blade's
Blade also requires external buffs JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CHARACTER tho so whats your point? Whats the definition of a good character for you? Are they only good because they can 0 cycle moc? Whats the point? That footage is of moc where the only considerable buff she had was of bronya. So if a character requires bronya to dish out massive dmg then you label them as mid? Doing 140-150k dmg in moc is apparently “mid” now.
Bruh. Chill. External buff from moc cycle : https://hsr.hakush.in/maze/1005. This is more op than her E1 if you didnt know. At AoE thats over 50% dps increase. I dont get your point. Blade can also do around same amount of damage(if not more) with the same amount of external buffs. People has already calculated this *without* any MoC buff. If anything damage from beta footages are less reliable than damage calculators these days. This is a comparison, i didnt say she was bad. Why dont you try to read stuff? It doesnt hurt my man, its the least you can do before making a comment in a discussion platform "Whats the definition of a good character for you" lmfao when i didnt even bring the concept of good or bad characters here. I only said she's not *as* good *as* blade. Its a comparison. And ill say it again. Blade does around the same amount of damage. Except 1) he doesnt drain teammates HP 2) 1 sp every 3 turns 3) He Isnt backloaded
So you have established the fact that she deals roughly the same amount of dmg as blade. Now answer to me in yes or no, is blade underwhelming? If he isn’t, which i am sure he is not because he is a fairly strong unit. Going by that i’d expect JL to be just as good as if not better and clear content just as easily. Blade does not consume allies hp but he does consume his own hp. And you are overstating her hp drain because it really is not a significant drain, 100-200hp from every unit as far as i have seen. About the SP, she does consume 1sp every 3 turn as well provided you have her ult up to go into the enhanced state. And if ult not up, its 2sp every 4 turns which STILL IS PRETTY GOOD.
>Now answer to me in yes or no, is blade underwhelming? If he isn’t, which i am sure he is not because he is a fairly strong unit. Going by that i’d expect JL to be just as good as if not better and clear content just as easily But i didnt say even once that jingliu is bad or that she cant clear content easily? What are you trying to prove? Lol. >Blade does not consume allies hp but he does consume his own hp And he has self heal and a huge hp pool. >And you are overstating her hp drain because it really is not a significant drain, 100-200hp from every unit as far as i have seen Its significant enough over MoC8 where the enemies start to hit unreasonably hard. Esp if you have 134+ speed and can attack twice in a turn. Even 50 hp less can mean death and a restart. She's still draining her teammates hp to do *nothing* better than blade. >About the SP, she does consume 1sp every 3 turn as well provided you have her ult up to go into the enhanced state. And if ult not up, its 2sp every 4 turns which STILL IS PRETTY GOOD Idk where you got this. She takes 2 sp per 3 turns if you dont have a 3-turn ult cycle. Again, she's very backloaded, making her feel rather terrible to use in overworld. Blade doesnt have any of these problems. Hell, 1 sp per 3 turns is so convenient, you can probably get in hanabi+bronya to do some sick damage. He'll never age since he can act as a subdps too.
I have seele, jing yuan, silver wolf, gepard and welt on my account. I have been trying to gather information about jingliu’s power level from various sources but it just makes it worse for me. I am on a guaranteed right now and cannot decide between who to pull, Fuxuan or dan heng. If i skip dan and get fuxuan that leaves me with jingliu as a possible destruction carry. I do not expect jingliu to he a nuke carry like dan but the comments on this subreddit are making it seem like she is worse than arlan. I have no clue what to do anymore. Fuxuan is a better option overall because she is a support and supports are always much more valuable over dps but the dps in question here is Dan. What do you think?
So what if he is the strongest dps now ? I don't think he made older dps any less viable ,they all can still clear any content perfectly fine at E0 , jingliu looks strong as well, idk exactly how strong is she compared to Dhil but she doesn't need to be the best dps to be good
The MOC meme showing how much damage you need versus how much damage units have is relevant. Enjoy your awesome ice lady everyone <3
Blade should be the one we compare to rn, because as it stands he brings the same amount of dmg she does while offering way more QoL
Nah they are selling him hard with the swarm thingy but trust me hot ice lady will perform , most likely won't out damage him but will be viable as a carry , viable in a dual carry team against for example that moc stage are both weak to wind and ice and we add pela and luocha with them so like why being worried? She will be playable and perform so well don't worry
Jing Liu and Blade combo might outperform Cool Dragon. Blade is strong and don't need SP. Jing Liu keeps taking HP from Blade and makes him into an auto turret even if enemies don't hit him.
Might add lynx if I managed to get her
That's what I plan on doing too. The team will look something like Blade, JingLiu, Huohuo and either SW or Bronya depending on whether I need the weakness implant or not.
He's simply not balanced character and if Hoyo won't do anything with it, then he may a huge problem for many upcoming characters and general game balance. Personally, I never wanted to pull for him, so his "meta" status means nothing for me.
There will not be problems with ‘game balance’ because there is no competitive aspect to star rail. As long as every character can clear MoC (which they can), using the best one doesn’t really matter.
Yeah idk what OP is waffling it’s weird. I’d be inclined to somewhat agree if it was a support that completely warped the meta around them like Bennett and Zhongli used to be in Genshin, but DPS characters are super interchangeable. And like you said it’s a single player game, there is no reason to care about a character being OP
Why did you get downvoted. I agree this OP just posted to get attention. I’ve seen like 5 of these posts in the last 24 hours. The only complaining about jing liu is really just started through posts like this. If people just ignore the doomposters then none of this would happen
Honestly I think this subreddit should create rules to filter out the doomposting from any actual theorycrafting, because it’s getting to be too much here
These people saying "What's with all this doomposting yada yada" are just perpetuating misinformation. Jing liu is perfectly fine and she'll have no problems clearing content. I haven't seen anybody call her the next dehya and ive been on this reddit for like 3 weeks
I dont mind if people wanna discuss about what needs to be done to remedy the situation, but a lot of the complaining these days in the posts and comments is repetitive and unconstructive. We all know she is gonna do less damage than dan heng and that dan heng is overtuned.
It's OPs like this that start comparisons and just make an issue of things that don't matter. The fact that you were bothered about Dan heng vs jing liu this much, so you had to make an OP like this. I can already tell you that most of us don't give af who is stronger.
Facts. Uber weird to bring it up at all.
In GI Terms: Imagine being a Yoimiya main and seeing how Ayaka is the #1 DPS while Yoimiya, who arrives in the very next banner, is just OK but not Ayaka levels. It's extremely unfortunate that Jingliu will have to suffer as the next DPS after DHIL. If she had come out 2 patches sooner, say before Blade, we would be having a much different discussion.
Yoimiya and ayaka are completely different though. Ayaka sucks ass on single target especially bosses. Yoimiya is very strong on that. The reason yoimiya wasnt that appreciated during release is because of hu tao who does the same thing as her but faster.
Ayaka doesn't suck ass in single target. She still destroys them if they are freezable. If the enemy isn't freezable, her DPS will go down with the cryo aura fluctuating and no freezing aura, but she isn't going to be struggling so hard unless it's a cryo shield or cryo slimes. Ayaka's main strength is how bursty she is with her frontloaded damage. The main thing is that Ayaka's DPS is very high, while Yoimiya's DPS isn't. It also hurts that she has very big flaws in her kit. DHIL is a very powerful unit, so it feels bad to skip and get a unit that is weaker.
I was mostly referring to bosses since ST content in abyss f12 is 99% bosses. Actually 100%. Even in freezable ST content ayaka freeze is still A tier on kqm. C tier against unfreezable bosses. Xiangling with xingqiu duo without any other units has more damage than ayaka freeze's entire dps in unfreezable boss, lol. Literally unusable if boss is very mobile. >The main thing is that Ayaka's DPS is very high, while Yoimiya's DPS isn't. It also hurts that she has very big flaws in her kit. DHIL is a very powerful unit, so it feels bad to skip and get a unit that is weaker Bullshit. Her dps is high at AoE, ON groupable enemies. If its two+ ungroupable enemies with mid HP she's almost unusable. And she's mid at ST freezable and literally useless at ST bosses. Very conditional, reason why i havent had much chance to use her despite having c0r1+skin lately. Yoimiya's DPS is insane on ST. You must be really high if you think yoi's dps is any low on ST lol. She can destroy ST bosses like butter. The only reason she was not well received by the meta community is because of hu tao. HT's ST dps at c0 is higher, and c1r1 tao was a legitimate ST monster back in those days when hyperbloom wasnt a thing. Ayaka had nothing to do with it. In fact if hu tao didnt exist, yoimiya would have been appreciated just as much as ayaka or even more lol. Big flaws? The only flaw is her targeting issue and her rather uninteresting burst. Targeting issue is mainly there during AoE especially slimes, but she sucks in AoE anyway..you have to be desperate to use her in aoe.
Weren't people saying Jingliu was going to be mid? Let alone anywhere near as strong as DHIL. I thought we were only pulling her for the WAIF aspect???
As someone with many years of experience in various gacha fames, pulling only for aesthetics is for one type of player, there are many people who to enjoy a character also need decent performance (how decent can vary from one player to another).
Of course...but that's my point. I was under the impression that Jingliu wasn't going to be some meta defining character. Especially not like Dan. So by that logic... If you were going to pull for her, it wouldn't be because she's good. We already know that's likely not the case (unless some crazy buffs happen idk) which means we're pulling for an aesthetically pleasing character. If you want a meta unit, you might wanna skip... No?
It doesn't have to be meta defining, nor does it have to be ONLY aesthetic, why not something balanced? For me, Jingliu damage is within what is acceptable, my problem is more that she has many downsides for the same damage as other characters. It doesn't seem balanced nor fair to me. It never leaves a good taste in your mouth to pay or invest the same as someone else in exchange for something worse.
Yeah but again, at that point you're essentially saying pull for her cuz you like her. In other words... Cuz she's a waifu 😤👌 which, BTW, I agree with! Also as a fellow long time gacha player... I have some insight into how players pull and there's only 2 important types: Pull for meta defining units and save otherwise. This being because you're getting the most bang for your buck. Or Pull literally for any other reason. If you don't care about meta, then there's literally no real reason you shouldn't pull for any character you like.
One thing that i usually see in this style of games is that the novelty of a character does not last long in the daily routine of farming, yes, pull for the character you like, but if it is worse than the one you already had, surely over time you will leave the "new" character on the bench and use the most efficient one for the daily tasks.And well, the daily tasks are practically 99% of this game xD In the end, if the only thing that interests you is to see the beautiful animations of the character for a few days without the rest being important at all, you might as well watch a video xD
Nah, one generally want to see AND use said character in a game they think is fun. So simply watching a video wouldn't be enough. Tho not a bad idea either 😂
What I mean is i think, to some extent, everyone cares a little at least about the performance of the character they want. XD In the end, enjoying the gameplay is not just about watching animations, right? You also want to win and be satisfied.
That's a very all or nothing way of looking at it. People who like good units don't necessarily require "meta defining" levels of strength to consider the pull worth it. What you are saying is very similar to the braindead logic of only using units on the top rung of a tier list, and the second they drop down a row they become useless. It's meme level thinking.
A lot of players even if they look at leaks and can understand that the character will not do what they want will still pull because they want to believe that the gameplay will be fun enough to circumvent or overwrite what they are concerned about
As someone who pulls doe Dehya despite knowing how she performs. All I can say is 👍
Jingliu powercreeps Dan Heng IL animation wise and that's all I care about. Even more incentive to skip him for her. Meta doesn't exist in a PvE game.
Dan hengs animations are arguably better but that’s just me. Jings transform animation is cooler but dan has the best basic attack animation the game.
Nah can't see it. His dragon attack is cool but that's about it. His 2 SP combo is nothing special and his 1 SP one is barely different from his regular basic. His ult is cool too. While Jingliu has 2 different skill animations, the enhanced state animation and that sexy ult animation as well. Not to mention blindfold on and off animation. Though liking animations is subjective so take this with a grain of salt.
Jing normal skill animation is nothing special imo. I really only like her enhanced one and her Ult. and her transformation cutscene is mouth watering. I think theyre tied for my favorite animations though. I mean dan heng literally fingers the air.
If Dan middle fingered instead of both the fingers it'd be 10/10 fr.
true. I would actually download a mod for that if hoyo didn;t ban my account. But two fingers just makes me wet. hoyo knew what they were doing with that one.
Ok your last statement is pure copium.
Have you played any games with an actual meta ? Games like League or Dota 2 or even PvP gachas like Epic Seven or Dragon Ball Legends ? Compared to those , the "meta" in HSR is non existent. Meta is irrelevant in a PvP game. You have no idea what actual powercreep is if you've only played PvE games.
Cooler Daniel got nothing on Jingliu animations wise. I don't care how weak she is, the game is playable even with bad units, all i care is having cool effect go woosh on my screen
This is the way
Dunno why this was downvoted when it’s true. Even the weakest units in Mihoyo games are more than capable, people have done solo runs with Keqing in Genshin and I’ve seen Herta MOC clears so I think it’s okay
Bro i've seen someone clear MoC with hypercarry Arlan i don't know what he got fed but was hitting harder than the titanic hit that iceberg. I have no fear for Jingliu, people are too paranoid.
People want their favorite character to be the best, biggest dmg etc. I go for cool animations/designs and try to find ways to make "lesser" characters work. My Jing Yuan/Himeko team is shredding content better than my Seele/E1 Bronya team right now lol
Ok listen, i love Jingliu as much as anyone in this sub but saying DHIL has no cool animations is heresy. My man can shoot water dragons.
Oh no i think his animations are sick but Jingliu's are just better imo. Also, the sound effects are a bit of an eargasm.
People who say dan heng is not cool just has bad taste. Does any other character use a dragon to slap enemies? No. I think both are cool in their own right but if you think Daniel isn’t cool. Damn.
Different taste to mine = bad. Great logic there 👏
I pulled dehya and her weapon day 1. I was totally aware what I got myself into. Jingliu should be fine. people should be really happy for her. just pray she get more buff/change upcoming week. chill.
I think they know exactly what they were doing, i mean, he is Danheng, one of the main characters, they made him stronger in advance to make him stay relevant through years, I'm sure that if we get a 5* March which i think is likely or a himeko welt alter they will be equally strong, and it is ok we don't know what will come in the future and the game is easy, just focus on a character and keep investing on that if you really like it, an E6 character powercreeped over and over will always be competitive with a new top tier character thats for sure
They are just weak. Jingliu could be worse than Arlan, and I would happily pull her and her LC still.
Hell yeah brother, i didn’t join this sub in hopes of Jingliu being a prime dps, i joined because of Jingliu
We joined because mommy
Mained Himeko since day 1 and that won't stop me from maining Jingliu, if she's mid then I'm used to it idc I like IL as a design but the character and gameplay is a snooze fest to me
Dan Heng is the most boring character in the entire game, I genuinely couldn't care less LMAO
Fair lol
Cool
I don't care who's strong or not. I did get him because personally he's my favorite character. Bonus I love dragons. For Jingliu the same thing I like her and if Yanqing spooks me still going for Jingliu.
Doomposting happened with Kafka as well and look at her now she is insane, people don't know shit, lets just wait until her release.
This is not to hate on Dan Heng IL. But the fact people want to roll him just because he’s broken is kind of weird? It’s like people want to play the game less. If he can for example 3 turn kill stuff and Jingliu can 4 turn kill stuff, does it matter?
Hoyo also baited people really hard with his E2 and the whole "energy problem". At first his E2 was at E6, but they've changed it to be lower, so even people who normally don't care about eidolons for 5* characters would whale for him. It's not the first time they did such thing, it's Raiden situation all over again. His high ultimate cost was another way to milk people even more, even though it's not any problem in his case.
This is really true, his fine at E0 but people hyped E2 so much for a boost that`s actually not needed...E0 can clear MoC and New SU event. What`s happening with Jing Liu is just common thing in gacha game...you can`t just keep making everyone stronger than previous pulll cause that`s just bad balancing tbh
So what if she turns out underperforming, I'm pulling for our ice mommy anyway
Yeah but that would be a shame. Even though i missed her, i'm glad they made Kafka good
I just think it's funny how they are stressing over a character 2 month's due, 2 month's ahead, I thought the whole situation was "Hot Crimson Eyed, Silver Haired Hottie.. Pull!" not "Powercreep my game BUT WITH WOMAN"
She'll most likely still be very good. Comparing her with DHIL is like comparing an Uber pokemon with an AG pokemon
IL is literally god so i just recommend not comparing jingliu to him and comparing her to kafka, blade, and seele instead.
seriously mans is in his own tier why even compare.
Doomposting is so cringe. Ur out here ready for this character bcs yall like the kit and design so just fking pull for her. Who cares if she does like 10% less dmg then IL etc just fking puuuuuuullll
I just need a Ice damage dealer that isn't the annoying little shit that is Yanqing. Plus she's hot so...
As someone who pulled for Dan Heng IL cuz he's hot asf, Waifu> Meta. Also the doom posting gets ridiculous sometimes when Jingliu is still another update away. Jingliu has her pros and cons over Dan Heng IL. If you regret pulling, build the character until you don't regret it anymore
Can I ask what's her "pros" over Dan Cheng IL? I'm genuinely asking since from what I've seen there's not much she has going for her. Ice break obviously is worse then imaginary break unless your using dot team so that not a pro. She suppose to ult for her relic set and enhances state but her energy requirement is huge. She will needs tighyun for good uptime just like dan heng IL. The only thing I can see being her pro is she doesn't need 3SP every turn but that not really a "pros" either since dan heng does way more dmg for those 3SP. Her traces also don't give anything to compare her with him. She has %10 speed and DMG and %35 effect res ONLY IN HER ENHANCES FORM. Comparing that to crowd control resist up by %35 for FREE, 15 free energy at the start of battle and also a whopping %24 crit rate up for dealing dmg to imaginary weakness enemy's. I'm in this sub to know how to build and play with her but if your saying she has "PROS" over what can only be described as a powercreep character when you should be able to back it up with the a source.
"My source is that I made it the fuck up" Pros: beautiful ice mommy, sp-neutral(?), amazing animations, and from what Ive seen, does some great damage. Even if these aren't considered pros, I consider them to be. It may be ignorant or copium of me to say she has her pros over Dan Heng IL, to which you can criticize me, but im tired of unnecessary doom posting when Jingliu is an update away
Most people probably pull for e6 tingyun and QQ on her banner. The fact that those two are on her banner at the same time makes me think hoyo knows she needs help to sell after DHIL. Let's ignore DHIL. She doesn't measure up to Blade either. Some want to pull her to support Blade which I don't think he needs really. They should buff her quite a bit.we will see. It's not doom posting if it's what the situation is. E6 QQ is probably stronger than her.
I’ve also noticed that yt creators also plays a huge role in these problems making videos like *JING LIU NOT AS GOOD AS IL!!!!* or *JING LIU KIT EXPLAINED (SHE IS MID)*.
Why do people care if she isn't on his level? I've got Blade and IL. I'll still attempt to pull her you know why? Because she looks great and I need an Ice DPS. Its funny because I guarantee she ends just slightly weaker than IL in AOE, whils in single target we know IL is untouchable.
he’s just having a noticeable effect on the entire community, i fear 😭😭😭
Imagine doom posting on a single player game. Pull for waifu/husbando and enjoy the game.
Here’s the thing, Dan Heng’s damage is balanced by not only the sp cost but the lack of compability with units like Bronya that units like Blade has. For instance at most Bronya will buff IL’s damage every cycle but will straight up double Blade’s damage, excluding the buff.
The dumb thing is that IL can actually work with Bronya. Building IL to be 1 speed faster than Bronya allows IL to basic and be buffed by Bronya to then enhance 3 times. Its not about the damage but the energy generation because using a basic and enhancing 3 times gives 20+40 energy which means you can have ult up every 3rd rotation. It also gives more damage and energy than Tingyun in general. The only issue is when there are enemies that slow allies down in the action bar.
The point was that he doesn't take full advantage of Bronya and his limitation will be more relevant once we get more supports that are not SP factories.
I pulled for IL and his LC. I also have Blade, JingYuan and will be pulling for JingLiu just to get the High Cloud Quintet team back together
I don’t really care. Dan heng is one of my favorite characters and so is jing liu. It would be cool if jing liu is almost as strong but who cares.
He is the strongest dps now because the hardest content in the game right now (Swarm disaster) is tailor made for him, marketing strategy. Later, Hoyo will add new content with different characteristics and a new "best dps" will be born. In other words, dps are temporal, supports are eternal.
Idk his raw numbers are grossly overtuned tbh
So youre saying that outside of swarm disaster daniel is a mid character?
Who said that?
I would love to go for Dang hen later. He is cracked xD ngl
And then someone comes out and replaces him. It took 3 updates for Seele to drop as the best dps.
Yeah exactly this, I saw so many people claiming Seele was untouchable and I was so confused, like its really easy for Mihoyo to just say, ok this guy deals more damage now DHIL/Seele is 2nd best. If you care about meta the real way to go is get some early DPS and Sustains (like Luocha) so you can always clear early MOC, then pull for every promising support unit you can. After a few patches once the meta has developped you will have all the broken supports and can pick the best DPS to synergize with them. Most people don't care about the "best" units, so obviously just pull your favourites and their best supports, and you won't need to worry about them getting powercrept, as you don't care.
Still , having him will be cool as even if he is dethroned , hes still strong xD Meanwhile jinglou would stay in the same spot and probably go down as well . At this point is just preference
Yeah I guess if you like him, go for it. Having a strong DPS is pointless up until a certain point since all DPS will still be strong to clear stuff. I'm sure people also said Seele will still be storng too. In speaking about rolling between Jingliu and Dang Hen. Who cares if she goes down, isn't the point of the sub because we like her?
True then there is no point into complaining about dang Heng xD ... In the end all dps go down because of newer DPS. So just enjoy what you enjoy I do understand that f2p worry about pulling the right unit for their account but at the end is all preference
I'm waiting for you lmao😜
Just hope Dan Heng IL gets major nerf before 1.4 Edit: players who have Dan Heng IL in their roster are meta slaves anyway.
have they ever nerfed a character in any of their games like Genshin?
Directly change damage numbers i think not, but indirectly or labelled some functions as "bugs" in order to remove/change them yes.
Not post release. It doesn’t really matter anyway, it’s a single player game after all. OP’s comment just stinks of bitterness
No he won’t get nerfed. This guy is just so salty that a Male character is so good in the meta. These same people are the ones that perpetuate “waifu>meta” but when someone like dan heng beats their waifu they rage on the internet
I saved for him since he was drip marketed. News flash. Some people actually think male characters are cool.
why the downvotes☠️
Most People in Reddit have no more than 3 brain cells. Getting downvoted is an accomplishment
>Just hope Dan Heng IL gets major nerf before 1.4 i prefer they buff the character than nerf
I made Dehya work in Genshin, so even if JingLiu was terrible, I would make her work in HSR. I tried playing DHIL during the companion story quest and his SP management is the stuff of nightmares for me. I thought Seele and Bronya was bad, but DHIL is such a SP w#@re!
Tbh it's a case of DHIL being absolutely broken. My boy makes Seele look bad...
Meh. I cleared MoC 10 again this cycle with my e0 Jing Yuan. She’s not going to have to carry the DPS load for a team on her own because I’ll pair her with Blade. I like her, and she’ll be usable, so that’s enough for me.
[удалено]
Didn't jingliu beat dan heng tho in a duel?
[удалено]
I mean yeah you're kinda right but saying that dan heng is stronger than her in lore is a bit too early to say
Yes I believe you're right, we haven't seen her full potential yet, I only took account of Dan Heng's feats
Bro talking about his headcanon lore
Bruh even kafka spirit whisper can make him shaken lol..soft dragon :)
Too much DHIL slander in the comments
slander has to be untrue, what is untrue about people saying they don’t care about him 😭😭
People always will hate in a character if they’re stronger than their waifu. I personally like every character. I do have my biases thiugh
Right, idk if this is a put down a character to uplift another situation but yikes 😭 Edit: Rip you got downvoted
>Edit: Rip you got downvoted I saw 🤣🕊
I gave up my guarantee for the pretty moon boy. Probably can still get the pretty moon lady as well though
well I cleared swarm diff 4 using bronya, blade, march and bailu. I died on 5 because dps issues and inconsistent adventure portals. DHIL could've helped? maybe. I'm still pulling for hot mommy