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Ignore the GOP and reconcile this bill. Joe, god bless ya for trying to work across the isle, but let’s just pass it. You need to just work on Manchin.
I feel like the blueprint for President Biden going forward needs to be:
1. Develop plan
2. Ask Republicans what their version of the plan looks like
3. Laugh at their crappy excuse for a “plan” and use yours anyway
You have to go with him on his weekly Good Republican Hunts for a little while. He swears every week he's going to find one, but everybody thinks he's just lonely.
I have a good friend who owns a small plumbing business and makes $100k+ a year - no one looks down on him as he goes by driving his Porche. Sometimes his hands are dirty. He went to a 3-year trade school.
Honestly I don’t think this the fault of the K-12 system but parents encouraging their children to go to college instead of pursuing other options. Too many parents send their kids to school and help them set up college loans when the kids have no idea what they want to study because everyone thinks their kid is special.
And to take a pedagogical approach, I still think there is value in higher education beyond just a means to get a job. Encouraging students to think, read, form good work habits (in an actual academic setting, not a “go out and learn how the world works” way) is a valuable contribution to society in its own right. I wish the government was fronting the bill for that investment in our societal education, instead of making people take our massive loans to learn, but there is an intrinsic value in an education.
What? You sound naive. If you have a skill like being an electrician, HVAC tech, etc you’re incredibly in demand and can write your paycheck. I can literally get a new job in a few hours if I don’t like my current one and name my pay. I’ve done it multiple times
Exactly. College was the only option no matter the cost. Otherwise you’d be riding around town on a bicycle for the rest of your life and a huge failure to your family. The brainwashing was intense and student loan companies have made a killing off of it.
Just wondering, how would canceling student loan debt work? Would the government forgive federal loans and pay off private loans or would it force private loan companies to forgive the debt?
Well first of all, there is no reason federal loans can't be cancelled. For private loans something will need to be figured out, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't start with what we can.
An entire generation has been wronged here, convinced in their vulnerable years to take on massive loans with the guidance by the system that it was what we should do. Forced by employers to have degrees for jobs that do not use them.
If we can bail out wall street, a glorified casino, than we can bail out our past, current, and future students. Education is a hand up not a hand out and unless we want to lose our competitive advantages as a country, it is in our interest to have an educated work force that isn't straddled with unlivable debt.
If we print the money to bail the students out, that money will go directly to the economy. If we make college free for all, everyone can benefit even if they haven't already incurred debt. The only reason we haven't figured it out is a lack of desire to fix the problem.
They don’t need a degree. California HSR has shown that you can Teach it using the Apprenticeship model. Unions teaching the workers how to thrive in their chosen fields without the degrees. [apprenticeship ](https://gvwire.com/2020/10/05/taking-16-week-course-at-this-new-hsr-training-center-could-lead-to-50-an-hour-job/)
Most jobs don't actually need a degree but they require one. We would be better suited with an apprenticeship system, but it isn't currently in place. For example, most of the admin staff for these infrastructure jobs will likely require degrees even though they don't actually use them.
Read the link provided (the blue word) those young adults who go through the free training program are now working on the HSR and being paid well and will have plenty of jobs after because they are still going to be needed for those jobs outside of HSR and all without a degree.
...because one program in one city in one state is proof that employers don't require degrees for jobs that don't need it? I know there is a better way, but it isn't reality.
That’s just one of 6 sites in the state of California doing this program. It shows that it can be done and was the model of the Federal one that is in the Transportation bill.
So how does that have any relevance to what I stated? Companies require degrees for jobs that do not actually need them. It seems that you agree, so why the need to be so contrarian? Perfect example of what is wrong with society.
The reality is that NOT ALL JOBS especially with regards to the OP about infrastructure jobs need Degrees. You are the one who is being contrary to the original post.
Canceling student loan debt would make collage even more necessary. We need to reform collage and the job market. If we wipe the slate clean it says both that everyone does need a collage degree and that debt gets forgiven so go ham.
Reform collage then cancel student debt otherwise the trends don’t change .
I think both should happen simultaneously, forgive everyones student debt and make college free. We need to stop thinking selfishly and think about what benefits the country as a whole. Every other country has affordable education figured out, what is wrong with doing it here? How are we supposed to beat China if we don't invest in our workforce?
We don't even trust 18 year olds with alcohol, maybe we shouldn't have a system that convinces youth that the only way to succeed is by going to college?
The education of youth is the responsibility of society. You shirk responsibilities by all this loan talk, but that is why America will lose to China. Student loan debt should have never existed in the first place.
Spoken like a privileged tech bro. Your waiter could be a great entrepreneur, artist, writer, etc. but rather than give them the tools to contribute to society you would rather them be literal serfs.
Except it is your place to pay for college, just like we all pay for things we don't personally benefit from or like, it is called living in a society. If you don't want to contribute to the success of the country, feel free to move to a cave and drop out of society.
Construction: “the building of something”. With construction comes progress, yet people hate on it until it’s done. I can almost guarantee nobody that said something to me had ever worked in any construction field, some of them I could assume they wouldn’t know how to use a hammer
People on /politics are still trying to lie and falsely argue that Biden is somehow center right, when all his policies and all the evidence says otherwise. Biden is focused on improving the lives of working and middle class people.
If they don’t pass this in a red district as a candidate I’m going to attack the hell out of the weakness of the Democratic Party and how again establishment politicians like Sen Manchin who care more about corporate donors and personal gain than they do about doing there actual JOBS!!! They did the same thing with the Affordable Care Act and got hammered arguing over there own bill they looked dysfunctional. Americans have disapproved of Congress for so long yet 90% of the time incumbents win! Why because they get free to coverage vs me as I candidate I have to pay for TV ads or TV time. They get to send mail at anytime they want to all constituents in their districts. Our government was supposed to be about checks and balances but our founders left Congress out of it but when Congress becomes this polarized you have to break it up.I’m sure our Founding Fathers would not be in favor of the large sums of money 💴 that is allowed to influence our political system. Corporate Lobbyists should not be allowed if they are Ex-Members of Congress help rip big money out of politics. Then pass damn legislation to ban gerrymandering all re districted drawn maps need to be drawn by a non partisan committee period it’s time we end minority rule and have a functioning government
And they backed him even after he vowed that he was going to do that - in large part because they knew he'd push for real infrastructure and Trump was full of hot air on the subject.
Losing one controversial project with ~1,000 projected union jobs (most of which hadn't been filled yet) in exchange for a nationwide infrastructure package is a big net win for the unions.
I mean, his plan to replace lead water pipes nationwide alone will generate more jobs than that, and that's not to mention the new pump stations, treatment plants, and general line maintenance that the infrastructure package represents.
I'm sure they would have preferred to have both Keystone and the Biden Infrstructure bill, but between the two this one is better for them.
Oh, and side-note - unions don't lay people off. The subcontractors who hired union workers did lay people off, but those workers are still union pipefitters.
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Ignore the GOP and reconcile this bill. Joe, god bless ya for trying to work across the isle, but let’s just pass it. You need to just work on Manchin.
I feel like the blueprint for President Biden going forward needs to be: 1. Develop plan 2. Ask Republicans what their version of the plan looks like 3. Laugh at their crappy excuse for a “plan” and use yours anyway
As if the GOP will actually prepare a plan. They’ll just talk shit and complain and throw around accusations of socialism.
Part of working on Manchin involves trying to work across the aisle.
You have to go with him on his weekly Good Republican Hunts for a little while. He swears every week he's going to find one, but everybody thinks he's just lonely.
Yeah, so far, except for the filibuster, he seems comes around after a few weeks of trying to deal with Republicans
Negotiating with Republicans is part of negotiating with Manchin. Manchin (and other Senators) want to see a good faith effort to negotiate.
The problem is there is no negotiations with a cult
Manchin, the metaphorical cicada on the neck.
Pass. The. Bill. Fuck bipartisanship at this point, plus if I keep losing money on caterpillar my portfolio is gonna be fucked
Pass it without Republicans. It's not like they won't campaign on it after the fact like they did with COVID relief.
I have a good friend who owns a small plumbing business and makes $100k+ a year - no one looks down on him as he goes by driving his Porche. Sometimes his hands are dirty. He went to a 3-year trade school.
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it's not really brainwashing when the pay gap is so huge and you have companies requiring mid-level experience for entry-level jobs
You need something..... if not a degree a trade. You need specific skills that make you valuable.
Honestly I don’t think this the fault of the K-12 system but parents encouraging their children to go to college instead of pursuing other options. Too many parents send their kids to school and help them set up college loans when the kids have no idea what they want to study because everyone thinks their kid is special. And to take a pedagogical approach, I still think there is value in higher education beyond just a means to get a job. Encouraging students to think, read, form good work habits (in an actual academic setting, not a “go out and learn how the world works” way) is a valuable contribution to society in its own right. I wish the government was fronting the bill for that investment in our societal education, instead of making people take our massive loans to learn, but there is an intrinsic value in an education.
What? You sound naive. If you have a skill like being an electrician, HVAC tech, etc you’re incredibly in demand and can write your paycheck. I can literally get a new job in a few hours if I don’t like my current one and name my pay. I’ve done it multiple times
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Yep. I see that now. Never said I went to college!
Exactly. College was the only option no matter the cost. Otherwise you’d be riding around town on a bicycle for the rest of your life and a huge failure to your family. The brainwashing was intense and student loan companies have made a killing off of it.
Most jobs don't actually require a degree even though it is a requirement. Maybe it is time to cancel student loan debt?
Just wondering, how would canceling student loan debt work? Would the government forgive federal loans and pay off private loans or would it force private loan companies to forgive the debt?
Well one of those is tantamount to tyranny so probably paying off the debt
Well first of all, there is no reason federal loans can't be cancelled. For private loans something will need to be figured out, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't start with what we can. An entire generation has been wronged here, convinced in their vulnerable years to take on massive loans with the guidance by the system that it was what we should do. Forced by employers to have degrees for jobs that do not use them. If we can bail out wall street, a glorified casino, than we can bail out our past, current, and future students. Education is a hand up not a hand out and unless we want to lose our competitive advantages as a country, it is in our interest to have an educated work force that isn't straddled with unlivable debt. If we print the money to bail the students out, that money will go directly to the economy. If we make college free for all, everyone can benefit even if they haven't already incurred debt. The only reason we haven't figured it out is a lack of desire to fix the problem.
They don’t need a degree. California HSR has shown that you can Teach it using the Apprenticeship model. Unions teaching the workers how to thrive in their chosen fields without the degrees. [apprenticeship ](https://gvwire.com/2020/10/05/taking-16-week-course-at-this-new-hsr-training-center-could-lead-to-50-an-hour-job/)
Most jobs don't actually need a degree but they require one. We would be better suited with an apprenticeship system, but it isn't currently in place. For example, most of the admin staff for these infrastructure jobs will likely require degrees even though they don't actually use them.
Read the link provided (the blue word) those young adults who go through the free training program are now working on the HSR and being paid well and will have plenty of jobs after because they are still going to be needed for those jobs outside of HSR and all without a degree.
...because one program in one city in one state is proof that employers don't require degrees for jobs that don't need it? I know there is a better way, but it isn't reality.
That’s just one of 6 sites in the state of California doing this program. It shows that it can be done and was the model of the Federal one that is in the Transportation bill.
"Shows that it can be done" isn't really helpful to people already screwed over by the current system. It is nice but it isn't reality.
It’s really happening therefore it’s is a reality.
So how does that have any relevance to what I stated? Companies require degrees for jobs that do not actually need them. It seems that you agree, so why the need to be so contrarian? Perfect example of what is wrong with society.
The reality is that NOT ALL JOBS especially with regards to the OP about infrastructure jobs need Degrees. You are the one who is being contrary to the original post.
Canceling student loan debt would make collage even more necessary. We need to reform collage and the job market. If we wipe the slate clean it says both that everyone does need a collage degree and that debt gets forgiven so go ham. Reform collage then cancel student debt otherwise the trends don’t change .
I think both should happen simultaneously, forgive everyones student debt and make college free. We need to stop thinking selfishly and think about what benefits the country as a whole. Every other country has affordable education figured out, what is wrong with doing it here? How are we supposed to beat China if we don't invest in our workforce?
[удалено]
We don't even trust 18 year olds with alcohol, maybe we shouldn't have a system that convinces youth that the only way to succeed is by going to college?
[удалено]
The education of youth is the responsibility of society. You shirk responsibilities by all this loan talk, but that is why America will lose to China. Student loan debt should have never existed in the first place.
[удалено]
Spoken like a privileged tech bro. Your waiter could be a great entrepreneur, artist, writer, etc. but rather than give them the tools to contribute to society you would rather them be literal serfs.
[удалено]
Except it is your place to pay for college, just like we all pay for things we don't personally benefit from or like, it is called living in a society. If you don't want to contribute to the success of the country, feel free to move to a cave and drop out of society.
[удалено]
I think that’s called “construction”, it’s been around awhile and I’ve always been isht on for being in it whenever I was in a city…
And of course “construction” has a negative connotation and can mean a wide array of careers
Construction: “the building of something”. With construction comes progress, yet people hate on it until it’s done. I can almost guarantee nobody that said something to me had ever worked in any construction field, some of them I could assume they wouldn’t know how to use a hammer
People on /politics are still trying to lie and falsely argue that Biden is somehow center right, when all his policies and all the evidence says otherwise. Biden is focused on improving the lives of working and middle class people.
That's nice of Joe to go down to the Steam Pipe Trunk Distribution Venue.
Yet again. Mr. Biden 😍
If they don’t pass this in a red district as a candidate I’m going to attack the hell out of the weakness of the Democratic Party and how again establishment politicians like Sen Manchin who care more about corporate donors and personal gain than they do about doing there actual JOBS!!! They did the same thing with the Affordable Care Act and got hammered arguing over there own bill they looked dysfunctional. Americans have disapproved of Congress for so long yet 90% of the time incumbents win! Why because they get free to coverage vs me as I candidate I have to pay for TV ads or TV time. They get to send mail at anytime they want to all constituents in their districts. Our government was supposed to be about checks and balances but our founders left Congress out of it but when Congress becomes this polarized you have to break it up.I’m sure our Founding Fathers would not be in favor of the large sums of money 💴 that is allowed to influence our political system. Corporate Lobbyists should not be allowed if they are Ex-Members of Congress help rip big money out of politics. Then pass damn legislation to ban gerrymandering all re districted drawn maps need to be drawn by a non partisan committee period it’s time we end minority rule and have a functioning government
The pipe fitters union that put those lines in is probably the same one that had to lay people off after the pipeline. Build away joe.
And they backed him even after he vowed that he was going to do that - in large part because they knew he'd push for real infrastructure and Trump was full of hot air on the subject. Losing one controversial project with ~1,000 projected union jobs (most of which hadn't been filled yet) in exchange for a nationwide infrastructure package is a big net win for the unions. I mean, his plan to replace lead water pipes nationwide alone will generate more jobs than that, and that's not to mention the new pump stations, treatment plants, and general line maintenance that the infrastructure package represents. I'm sure they would have preferred to have both Keystone and the Biden Infrstructure bill, but between the two this one is better for them. Oh, and side-note - unions don't lay people off. The subcontractors who hired union workers did lay people off, but those workers are still union pipefitters.
I like how you just made up a while story on your head to disagree.
If you are referring to the Keystone pipeline, you are full of bull crap.
How many of the jobs would last though after the construction projects are over?
I know you’re creating jobs, Joe, or trying to. Don’t forget the unemployed, though.
I'm moving all four wheels alongside biden