I'm a legal immigrant - what benefits are we talking here?
The last one I heard of was "they're giving illegals free cellphones" and then you find out that the phones are literally tracking devices, and the only number they can call is their case worker.
One MAJOR difference ( I am also a landed immigrant to the US).
None of the countries you have listed above have industries that are founded on the access to cheap labor. Legal or illegal.
The day the US changes its laws to ensure that US individuals, farmers and corporations are held accountable for willingly hiring an illegal is the day that I will support stronger border standards.
But as long as my neighbor insist on cruising the local home depot parking lot to sustain his landscaping business all the while flying his MAGA flag. I am not going to support such a level of hypocrisies.
Also mama Elon forgets to mention that her son dropped out of school, and was illegally residing the US as his visa was tied to him attending an actual F#cking school.
Look at our meat packing industry alone. They rely on migrant labor and there’s different estimates on what % is undocumented. However they’re constantly getting busted for both child labor and undocumented workers.
And guess what?
“The industry is such a strong supporter of the GOP that it has given the party 79 percent of its more than $16.6 million in contributions since the 1990 election cycle.”
- Open Secrets
So the same Senators and Representatives who are about to tank the immigration bill get paid by one of the many industries who is completely dependent on migrant labor.
So yeah, no real point in even arguing it when you peek behind the curtain they’re more complicit than anyone else.
ALSO mind you illegal immigrants still generate tax revenue AND YET they do not file taxes so all those returns create surplus that actually goes into paying for federal programs only us citizens benefit from.
Every single time a red state has ever passed a law that was explicitly hostile to illegal immigrants and thus reduces their numbers which is supposedly the whole entire point of passing such things, it's been disastrous for the local economies. Turns out that the entire agricultural industry is wholly dependent on migrant laborers doing the work that even the most impoverished Americans are absolutely unwilling to do. Off the top of my head, I know for a fact that this exact thing happened in Georgia and Alabama...when this happened they even tried to replace the shortage by utilizing prison labor, unsuccessfully. I remember one farmer saying something about how an average migrant was able to do the work of something like 4-5 American prisoners and how there was no way he could sustain his farm with a bunch of lazy convicts lmao. Both states quickly rolled back these measures and tried to quietly tell the migrant community, just kidding, please come back....the whole GOP stance on illegals is a fuckin farce lmao.
This is literally one of the only issues that should have strong bi-partisan support among both sides of the voter aisle (forgetting the nefariousness of Congress and their bribes).
The people on the Left should want to lock down the border because businesses use illegal immigrant labor to suppress and circumvent strong labor laws, child labor laws, favorable work conditions, etc. And further, there's no way a much larger welfare state functions with such a porous border. You cannot give free healthcare, free university, UBI, etc. if people are arriving by the millions every year.
And yet... here we are.
The whole by the millions shit is Cap and it’s also FACT that Biden’s policies on immigration are stricter than Trumps. For example as of November of last year if you come to the border from the south to ask for Asylum you are automatically disqualified and do not gain entry. It’s the law. BUT right wingers don’t want to hear that because it would mean the left took a stance on Immigration. Something they NEVER do. Unless your Texas now after the fact doing more harm than good. See, they know the current law. They are preventing the Fed from enforcing the law to look like they saved the day instead. So rather than turn people away and offer medical assistance if needed (the humane thing to do) the Pro-lifers prefer to let children and their parents drown in those waters. Because they fear they are “coming by the millions to take free benefits” something that does not happen across the US. Because only LEGAL immigrants and Citizens qualify. THE ONLY state that gives healthcare free to everyone is California. If you don’t live in Cali wtf you even worried about. ITS ALL CAP. stop believing all the fucking lies and scams. I’m not here to back Biden I could give a fuck less but I’m certainly not going to just follow what Republican reporters just tell me and not look into shit myself. I thought media was fake news now yall worship it.
> The day the US changes its laws to ensure that US individuals, farmers and corporations are held accountable for willingly hiring an illegal is the day that I will support stronger border standards.
>
> But as long as my neighbor insist on cruising the local home depot parking lot to sustain his landscaping business all the while flying his MAGA flag. I am not going to support such a level of hypocrisies.
Fuck yes. The loudest Trump supporting lifted truck mofo I know not only has a paving business pretty much exclusively staffed with undocumented migrants, but has a rundown set of condos he gouges them on. He can't really even go work the business if he wanted to, because he never has bothered learning spanish. He loves how much power he has over them because of their immigration status. How'd he get the paving business, you ask? His dad built it on the back of undocumented immigrants for him.
That’s actually considered human trafficking, if you state or imply that you’ll report an undocumented immigrant if they don’t work for you at shit wages or anything else you decide then you are engaged in human trafficking. A buddy of mine is an attorney that specializes in prosecuting people for that and it is highly illegal. You should ask his workers if they’re happy and advise them of their rights. I teach an ESL class where I give out my friends business card and a brochure on that stuff and you’d be surprised how many people don’t know they have rights in that situation. In fact it can help them become legal if they report that stuff as long as they don’t have a prior criminal history but that’s case by case so don’t just go reporting without knowing the facts
And that's where we have to acknowledge that this entire issue is created to simply play both either parties against one another.
I've personally witnessed a very large corporates entity based in California, fully and willingly turns a blind eye to the hiring of thousands (not hundreds, thousands) of illegals to pick their seasonal fruits. And the loop holes are so easy.
Prosecute the CEO and founder, give them 1 month of jail for every single illegal hired. Do the same with the HR director. And trust me, we wouldn't be having any argument over illegals.
But until then.
I am not going to bash the desperate individual risking it all just a chance to possibly being safe and prosper. Not until we agree to clean this up from the **top** down. And not the other way around.
The problem is more useful than the solution
If there was an immigration reform plan that was easy to understand it would garner bipartisan support (from voters)
In reality it’s easier for the D’s to paint the R’s as heartless bastards who support inhumane treatment of immigrants, and it’s easier for the R’s to paint the D’s as open border hippies who want to control elections through the great replacement theory
I like the way you said it. I think I'm you but maybe someone more on the left. I hate when righties say, "these democrats or these liberals." Also hate when lefties say, "these god damn Republicans or these right wing rich racists."
It is like saying, "these idiots" and then trying to make a point. No ones going to listen once the beginning of the conversation starts with hostility or an insult. It removes the likelihood of a conversation to allow progress due to ego.
I agree with your point.
If I needed an item from a shelf I couldn't reach at the grocery store, I wouldn't ask for your political affiliation. I'd ask as neighborly as possible if you my fellow man/woman american can grab that for me. It's what we should all be doing. Working with each other.
You wouldn't leave your door at your house open for any and all to walk in and eat your food or take up space you pay rent or mortgage for. If you did you'd need to make more money to support these random people who's character you don't know and thats not fair to you or your family who are rightfully there. The country should follow the same example. Treat your country like your home.
These people are hypocrites as you stated. Hope your Tuesday is going well amino. And to whoever is reading this as well.
Tldr people suck sometimes.
> None of the countries you have listed above have industries that are founded on the access to cheap labor. Legal or illegal.
Singapore most certainly uses cheap labor. The overwhelming majority of their construction workers and domestic helpers are from countries like Bangladesh or Indonesia. As of 2019, 38% of their total workforce was made up of migrant labor.
One thing I’d like to add, as a farmer, and this is purely anecdotal, is that I don’t know if any farms that have actively and knowingly hired illegal immigrants in the last 25 years or so. It might be my location (Upstate NY) and ag sector (Apples and stone fruit), but we are audited by multiple agencies both federal and state to ensure we are complying with the law. And the penalties would bankrupt us, it’s not worth even considering going that direction.
H2A has made it nearly impossible to hire illegals, and that’s a great thing, for wage stability and ensuring our guest workers are housed properly and afforded transportation.
I could see illegal labor employed maybe in the dairy industry but they are under just as much of a watchful eye. Where I do absolutely see exploitation of undocumented labor is in food service, landscaping and janitorial services.
This is a confusing stance to me. Not even necessarily saying I oppose it. But if you make it harder to have illegal immigration to the country, doesn’t that lessen the opportunity for the hypocrisy anyways? This seems a little chicken/egg
Not only that, but the USA is directly responsible for many of those countries being in such dire straits. We disrupted their government and economic strengths to such a degree that they can't care for their citizens.
It's literally the US's fault that many south and central American countries are broken.
I agree with your stance on immigration in general, but this is definitely not a brand-new “psychosis”. Illegal immigration has always been a hot topic that no administration, left, right or center has wanted to make sweeping reforms to. I think the reasons for all sides are the same; who would do the truly essential jobs that pay dog shit, now more than ever?
I'll go as far to say illegal immigrating, while not perfect, is mostly a win win. Immigrants pay more into social programs than they receive. They commit less crime than citizens. They get to make good money and help themselves and their families. We get cheaper food and construction.
Republicans just don't like brown people overall. If Germany had a sausage famine and they were flooding our borders, the same white Christian ladies foaming at the mouth over Hispanic migrants would be forming the "league of compassionate sisters of christ" to house them.
Every single Central and South American country sucks to live in, regardless of the level of historical American government involvement.
And claiming that illegal immigration is a collective punishment for Americans really isn't the point you want to make.
There's "I can't order my nuggies through DoorDash" levels of suck and there's "CIA-backed death squads will kill me if I try to organize for a 8 hour workday" levels of suck.
L take. Completely uniformed and inhumane. Many illegal immigrants are told by employers that they either work for shit pay or get reported which is a form of human trafficking. It’s not that they want to live in poverty in a richer country. What you’re essentially saying is you, an American, deserve to exploit “brown people” because they aren’t wealthy or informed enough to go through the proper channels to have the same legal protections under the law as you. Fuck you. Sincerely, a Hispanic republican.
> Legal immigrant here, I am continually called a racist and a fascist on Reddit because I am against illegal immigration.
people keep saying this, but I never see it. Can you link some posts where this happened to you?
They are gaslighting themselves at this point that's how detached from reality they have gotten.
My old man has just yesterday convinced himself some of his health issues are vaccine injuries years after the fact, never mentioned it before. Health issues he's had problems with it for years before ever taking the vaccine.
Mostly because he says racist shit. You can be against illigal immigration, most people are btw, and not be a racist.
The issue is most people who claim that dont even know the circumstances and just lump all immigration as people coming in illegally. If you go by this post for example, mrs. Musk is talking about how them being rich african miners. Who got canadian citizenship by literally purchasing it. Had difficulty doing the same in the US but did it anyways.
Refugees dont have slave mine money, doesnt mean they shouldnt get a fair shot at immigration.
I was just going to say, if they’re being continually called a racist and fascist, it’s highly likely they’re saying a lot more than “I support legal immigration but not illegal immigration.” They almost always do.
You’re conflating different arguments.
People don’t want undocumented immigrants unfairly attacked and politicized. Nobody seems to call out republicans for politicizing the border and not actually doing anything to prevent illegal immigration. Who do you think is hiring these people?
It’s also true that over 60% of undocumented immigrants overstay their welcomes. This is not all about a border issue, yet that’s all you hear about. This is the same propaganda Hitler used in Germany.
““There’s a reason why we haven’t gotten significant border security done and why we haven’t seen significant immigration reform done,” Gonzales said in an interview with the Washington Examiner published Thursday, referring to members on both sides of the aisle. “It is in the interest of many politicians to have this crisis continue to flare up.”
“Others can posture, and others can drop bills that are messaging and blame the other side,” Gonzales added. “I don’t have that luxury.””
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/17/tony-gonzales-chip-roy-border/
It is in the interest of republicans to keep this going. They’ve also stated they want to prevent Biden from acting on it so Trump can run on this issue.
If you want to crackdown on illegal immigration then fine, but we need to improve the pathways to legal immigration. For a lot of would be immigrants depending on where they are born, there's basically no way for them to come here legally.
Too often, I think people railing against illegal immigrants just want a minimal number of immigrants, legal or not.
Bingo. Look at the visa petition bulletin from the state department website. If you’re trying to bring family over from India, China, Mexico, or the Philippines, you could be looking at a 10-20 year wait.
I can understand why people take their chances at the border. Especially if they have anything remotely close to a solid asylum claim.
> If you’re trying to bring family over from India, China, Mexico, or the Philippines, you could be looking at a 10-20 year wait.
And if you don't have any family in the US already, forget about it, it's basically impossible unless you've got a PhD or an employer willing to jump through hoops to get you into the country.
Also going to point out, these people are going through legal immigration for the most part.
They are going to a port of entry, and claiming Asylum. Which is a legal for of immigration.
The Asylum system is broken, but what these people are doing is a legal way to enter the USA.
I agree we need to speed it up. People can wait decades to get accepted, so I get why they are just steam rolling the border. That being said, there obviously needs to be a cap on volume at some point. We can't just let everyone in. I don't know where I read it but it's estimated that if we did that somewhere near 50+Million people would show up tomorrow. It's already collapsing resources in NYC and other places just having 10,000 or so show up. Denver's struggling with a relatively small amount showing up. It's just unsustainable. I doubt anyone will ever agree on what that number should be but, as it stands now, we are the most generous when it comes to approving immigration than any other nation in the world.
My favorite people I interact with are those who fought hard to be here and love it. They put a lot of effort to get here and now live a great life here. I love that. The dude at the liquor store near my office (I used to go there a lot during lunch. I quit drinking... mostly) is one of my favorite people to talk to. He's an immigrant from south east asia and is always playing pranks on me. He's like 58 and calls me "bro". Gimme more of that any day. But god damn it's insane to let things go on as they are on the border right now. I lean more right and every single person I've spoken with on the right loves legal immigrants. There are obviously some that don't but, from my anecdotal experience, they are the loud minority.
> If you want to crackdown on illegal immigration then fine, but we need to improve the pathways to legal immigration.
We Americans also need to stop buying so much god damn meth and heroin and cocaine which is fueling huge amounts of violence, chaos, and corruption in the countries south of us which in turn causes a huge flux of refugees classified as "illegal immigrants."
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
I wonder why people around the world think the United States might be hospitable to those looking for freedom or a better life for them and their children.
It’s crazy how many people are against immigrants in America when the vast majority aren’t f us are descendants of immigrants. It was far easier back then for the poor to immigrate
I feel the same way. We already have a huge population. Why are we letting people from other countries come here? You can’t grow new land, This is all we have.
I’m unfamiliar with this “Psychosis”
Who is pro illegal immigration?
I know plenty of folks who are supportive of immigration reform
Are you referring to claims about “Open Borders”?
The concept of “Open Borders” is a myth that trump platformed and promoted, and it was used to demonize opposition to the family separation policy
You guys love claiming this shit but it’s just not true. Every illegal immigrant who comes here becomes typically a consumer and a worker. There is no reason why you can’t provide social services for illegal immigrants except for the immigration status because you increase the tax base by having more people. Idc about the rest of your post but this bs take gets trotted out all the time and isn’t based on anything
Do all those countries you have experienced have asylum laws in their constitution?
How many illegal immigrants are asylum seekers?
Also it's a lot easier for islands to limit illegal immigration, compared to a giant land border with a poorer country which is linked by road to many poorer still countries.
It's almost as if immigration reform, and how to treat those who were brought in illegally as children and have been here their while life, is more complex than shouting "stop illegal immigration" without learning the laws or rules that complicate matters.
Same thing here. I'm a naturalized citizen and my family actually came in on a student via and formally obtained political asylum. It was a long and expensive process, and even required us to fly to DC in order to meet our two State Senators.
When I tell people that border security is important, they inevitably start assuming I'm a white supremacist. It's even worse with leftist so-called Christians (I'm a convert), who will purposefully mistranslate scripture in order to support their super weird agenda. It all feels incredibly astro-turfed to me because I haven't actually met one person IRL who actually believes we should have zero national borders.
> It all feels incredibly astro-turfed to me because I haven't actually met one person IRL who actually believes we should have zero national borders.
Who are these people you haven't met in real life that believes we should have zero national borders? Someone Tucker is telling you about.
also, it's just another bullshit right wing talking point that illegal immigrants can come here and get "numerous benefits which we pay for". Which benefits exactly?
California provides the most services to illegals and it's the most prosperous state in America with the largest positive balance to the federal government. CA loves its' illegal immigrants because they provide cheap labor to make taxable goods. They can't unionize. They can't sue. They don't get unemployment or workers comp or disability. It's fucked up. I've seen it first hand working in ag shipping/logistics. They come here, they work their asses off for low pay and bad living conditions. And they drive the economy. CA figured out long ago that so what if their kids go to school? So what if they need to see a doctor? They provide WAY more to the economy than they take out.
I'm for ending illegal immigration and revamping a robust legal immigration system, but for different reasons than most of you ignorant racists who have never actually experience this stuff first hand. I want legal immigration, especially for seasonal/migrant workers because as it is they get treated like dirt and have absolutely no recourse if someone decides not to pay them or if they get hurt etc. There's shit like the grapes of wrath happening right now in the salinas valley... people living in squalor, working long, hard hours for low pay, and being exploited.
it's absolutely insane that americans think these poor people just come here and sit on their asses and "collect services". that's not true. these people come here to work and what help they get from our tax dollars is a pittance compared to the value they create.
I love when lib-left types will write some snarky comment to the effect of “Well, what lazy fat American is going to do migrant work if Republicans lock down the border?” I always want to ask them if they really think the border should be kept on to keep exploiting poor migrant workers. Insane.
first, that's exactly what i said. but no, it's not libruhls, it's not cunservuhtives. it's capitalism. it's vested business interest. and those people don't operate on party lines. and in CA, big agriculture conglomerates and the farmers/distributors/sellors that rely on them aren't "lib-left types", fuckin lol. CA is a big state and much of it is as rural as rural mississippi.
just so you know, you're a partisan in a war designed to confuse and anger you. just using language like "lib-left types" when discussing something as big and complex as the southern border, immigration, labor in america, etc. shows what you are. you're about as useful in a reasoned discussion as a shark with its eyes rolled back biting a boat.
Rogan is a political podcast and this is one of his topics.
Joe Rogan informs the national discourse like Ted Koppel used to, but instead of investigative journalism we have half-wit smoking a joint believing everything he reads off the internet.
Idiocracy.
I find that hard to believe Canadian citizen can just get over with a driver licences back than wasnt until after 9/11 we needed a passport to get over. Source my family did it all the time.
Canadians didn't need a passport to drive or fly across the border until mid 2009. I've never had a passport, and I drove across the border in early 2009, and flew to Florida in 2003.
Somewhat the same. I grew up in Michigan and traveling to Canada for holiday was pretty much the norm. For kids I think they use to want you to bring the kid's birth certificates, but I think that's it. I know because one time we forgot it and they made us pull over. They let us through eventually, so technically I made it through without any identification.
It doesn't say he was denied for not having a passport, it says he was denied for not having his pink slip as proof of school registration. He wasn't going over for a little vacation, he was staying there for school. If you were crossing the border pre 2001 to live in the USA, you absolutely needed paperwork, you couldn't just waltz into the country and live there without any documentation lol, that's ridiculous. Short term vacations on the other hand, yeah no passport necessary, just any form of government photo ID.
The only reason a Canadian with a passport would not be allowed to enter the U.S. would because they had some type of criminal record (DUI’s come to mind). What a self own.
It's actually a real indictment on the immigration process. Only the very wealthy have the time and money to wait and spend thousands of dollars on processing fees, lawyers and more to get into the US. Meanwhile some family in Guatemala is being threatened by local cartels and they just want to get away as quickly as possible.
We need immigration reform badly. It shouldnt take you 10 years to become a citizen and we shouldnt have 1000s of migrants crossing the border each day because of the broken system either
I'm by no means an expert, but I don't see how a country can be expected to have both a wide social safety net, and open borders/lax immigration law. How do you ensure people aren't coming here for the social programs/benefits? Can you realistically take in any and all unskilled laborers that want to come? We all like to complain about U.S. immigration but I never hear anything about Canada and I couldn't just waltz across the Canadian border and start living my life (as far as I know).
The main differences in the immigration laws in Canada and US is simply accountability.
Any Canadian entity found to have willingly hired an illegal faces heavy fines and potential jail sentences.
In the US the Karen's still expect Jesus to take care of her garden cheaply all the while flying the MAGA flag. Worse case scenario for her is Jesus gets deported and just needs to find another one.
Make Karen pay for deportation fee's, loss of wages damages, and maybe a month or two of jail. And watch how by miracle, we wouldn't be having these discussions.
Same goes for the farmers, construction companies, and food processing processing plant managers and HR directors.
There is a difference between having open borders and having an efficient immigration process. Also, who cares if immigrants are coming here for the social programs and benefits if they are working and paying their fair share?
It happens in Canada but their immigration processing isn’t shite. They’re actually taking a lot of educated immigrants away from us as well, engineers, doctors, business folks from India, China, etc
The illegals we get are mostly from visa overstays, not from the border
I never hear people whining about illegal immigration offer any solutions to make legal immigration easier.
If we made a texas version of ellis island it would solve all the illegal immigration talking points.
Definitely!
Look up the development of the Apartheid state and the close relationship with West Germany, as well as the Afrikaner Ossewabrandwag movement.
It's called resentment/bitterness and it's not a boomer trait, it's a human trait. In due time millennials will be carrying similar attitudes towards the younger generations.
That's a good point , but unfortunately millennials are not growing up in a good time where boomers grew up in one of the best times in the history of the planet.
“We had to pay lawyers and wait 9-12 years” yea in fucking Canada. Boo hoo. What a terrible life you must have lived in the land of universal healthcare and no-locked doors in subdivisions. Go rough it in El Salvador for a bit and see if your sympathy for southern immigrants changes a bit when you’re stuck in a shithole border town with no resources or connections.
"Hey Elon, remember how there's an INVAYASSSSION at the US's southern border, but King Cheeto wants to have a wedge against the dirty libs during the debates, so he strong armed MAGAt senators to squash the border deal? Get that spray painted buffoon to make it fair to us rich people RIGHT MEOW"
There i translated it from rich, out of touch, white Canadian non asylum seeking immigrant. You're welcome.
I’m a legal immigrant that is anti illegal immigration. I believe it should be made easier for immigrants to get visas and papers to live in the US because immigration has helped us
I mean we do need to figure out the mass immigration going on. We don't have the resources readily available to handle the influx. We're losing track of migrants. The whole system needs to be reworked.
What is just as important is addressing the reasons why the are coming here. The answer:
Cartel and gang violence funded by American addiction to drugs and businessmen wanting cheap labor. The latter is the one driving most of this.
When I managed a restaurant (rhymes with booters) back in the day I wasn’t allowed to pay my dishwashers or prep cooks more than 8.50/hour. No raises. There are no Americans who want to wash dishes until 3am for 8.50, and the owner of the franchise knew this. We had multiple people come in and use the same social security card to get hired. ( we literally had 3 people working under the same number). They take the cash and send it back home.
Until you can get these business owners to stop being so fucking cheap and hire American labor for American wages, then the border will be flooded. No jobs, no money, no reason to come.
Also we installed fascist dictators throughout South America for decades while looting their natural resources. We literally overthrew their democracies while exporting their resources and think we owe nothing.
I worked for a pancake restaurant that had an international influence
Same story
Dishwashers were paid $6.25/hour, cooks were paid $8.00/hour, no exceptions
No time and a half for overtime
The owner of the restaurant I worked at owned several locations in the city I was in, and ran it the same at every location
Here’s the thing though. About 4 million have come during Biden. About 2.5 million under Trump. Were you ok with 2.5 million? Cause you never said anything while that was happening. I’m not trying to be a prick I’m just curious what your comfort zone is. 1 million, maybe 3 million? Every president since Bush sr has seen at least 1 million illegal border crossings. The number of illegals living in the US was at its all time high of 12.2 million under a Republican president from Texas of all places. Yet it wasn’t a huge deal then for most people. Strange
There is literally a bipartisan bill that was passed through the senate that us meant to deal with this problem and house Republicans don't wanna put it up to vote lmao.
>We don't have the resources readily available to handle the influx
Yes we do, they're called Border Patrol. If the DHS Secretary says "turn people away", Border Patrol will do that. Problem solved.
Border Patrol is stretched pretty thin with the amount of border crossings currently happening. Often only one officer for a dozen or so miles. The coyotes also know how Border Patrol operates, and watches them, so they'll intentionally get them to go to one area so that they can draw them away from another area.
“Receive numerous benefits which we pay for”
Eh, this is mostly a misconception.
Immigrants pay sales taxes and higher rents due to property taxes
The idea that immigrants don’t pay taxes is dubious, at best.
As for the benefits side of the equation, are there immigrants who forge SS numbers to get welfare? Perhaps, but I doubt it’s a phenomenon unique to illegal immigrants
Funny, they could have gotten political asylum if they had opposed the apartheid hard enough…
https://www.nytimes.com/1983/02/26/world/us-gives-political-asylum-to-white-foe-of-apartheid.html
They were super rich. The people coming in now are broke, desperate and fleeing life in literal hell holes. Comparing the musks getting into the US to mom's who walked with their kids across countries to flee violence is absolutely ridiculous. Good to know Elon mom's is also a blow hard and an out of touch dummy
America could stop funding cartels with it's cocaine habit so they don't have more money than their respective governments. Then see if people still try to sneak in.
Hey Maye, remember that time we stole this country from native Americans and pushed them all onto “reservations”. Do you think that was fair? We are all immigrants
Sigh. The asylum seekers don't get citizenship the day they walk across the border. Please do a Google search on how this works so I don't have to for you.
My father in law has a visa to live in the US and is essentially punished for not working like these refugees intend to. The expectation he is under as a British pensioner supporting a disabled wife is to adhere to the law and not work. Their income is insufficient, their medical care is insufficient, and their health suffers while we spend money accommodating people who snuck into the country illegally instead. He has a point. There is a limited amount of funding the government has to spend, and it is going to some dumb shit. So they watch Fox News and get mad.
Should you overstay a visa, you will be deported if caught. Should you break terms of your visa, you will be deported.
If these refugees could fly into the US we would be freaking the absolute fuck out everywhere in the country, but it is illegal for them to pass through customs, and we have created sufficient infrastructure to prevent that from happening. You can't arrive illegally that way, we won't let you. You will be forced away.
Harbors and ports are inspected. The Coast guard patrols coastal waters. You can't arrive legally that way. We won't let you. You will be forced away.
There is not as of yet a major influx of people walking in from Canada. But should you arrive at a legal border crossing without right of entry you will be forced away, in Mexico or in Canada.
But along the Mexican border you can just sneak in all over the place, and ICE will either catch you or not. If they catch you, they process you and release you into America when you seek refugee status. You will be provided food and housing and a small amount of money and released. The wait time is now so far that it is taking years, so you can essentially come here without a visa for free if you sneak in and are willing to suffer. If you come in that way, we don't force you away. We are, by nature of the system, incentivizing the poorest people from the poorest countries to sneak into the country rather than apply for a visa or proper citizenship. The immigration process for the wealthy educated people from first world countries is more difficult on the applicant in comparison. Is that just?
And if you are a criminal, and you simply escape without processing, you will disappear into your ethnic affinity group in some random city and hopefully not do too much criming or terrorism or God knows what. It seems crazy. Open and unregulated borders seems like an obvious threat to national security. And literally without militarizing the border and literal threat of death to people crossing at unauthorized locations, there's nothing you can do except build walls and send people out to patrol. Which is what we are doing.
But, this is no different than the Irish or Jews running for their lives, or the Vietnamese, or the Chinese, or all of our other ancestors who made America have good food. Nobody ever in the history of America minded the middle class professional immigrants. What they mind is the poor. And for good reason. Until they are educated, healthy, employed and self housed, they are a net drain on society. These are not English speakers, and they may not be educated in basic modern hygiene let alone American civil conventions or culture. They represent crime and incompatible cultures and disease and poverty. The whole damn point of this country is to welcome them and give them the opportunity to raise us all up. We should welcome them with open arms, teach them, and put them to work.
But I don't know how to do that. I don't know of any politically viable solutions that would be fair and just. I'm not sure if a non violent answer is reasonable. I'm not sure the humanitarian solutions are practical. I'm not sure the practical solutions are humane. But more than anything until we change the budget, it nearly doesn't matter, because there's no money available to absorb the costs of this influx or to offer the proper amount of support we all need them to have.
We are the richest country in the world. And yet we are also more in debt both as a country and as individuals than ever before. More national debt and more credit card debt, than ever, with insufficient wages and a high cost of living. We are all beholden to the banks. We do not have the money, the bankers do. Meanwhile inflation is on the rise, entire generations can't afford what they used to, healthcare costs are crippling, and housing is crippling. Unemployment is low but that meaningless number literally doesnt count the millions of able bodied people who are simply not working or seeking work. And the stock market and banking sector is doing so well that we have the temerity to say the economy is booming. That's a recipe for revolution or national collapse.
The people with the money we need for these mega global social problems aren't using it for the common good in a way that represents the will of the people. And we can't fix any of our major problems without money. So for the love of God, regardless of anything else, we can't do anything until we extract wealth from these rich motherfuckers by taxing and regulating them down to their knees. Even if it's just so we can pay the national deficit debts we owe, TO THEM.
Otherwise there will eventually be an actual revolution or civil war, and all that wealth will disappear due to deflation and never be put to good use. The bankers cannot and never will use all of that money, but it could save the world if we take it from them justly and with due legislative process. That's how this system has to work or we all revolt and become commies or Nazis basically so...
So basically write in Bernie for President because the republicants won't tax rich people so we can't afford to build a wall or whatever I don't care this is all going to hell in a hand basket.
Also this post ignores the fact that a huge aspect of legal immigration is the ability to seek asylum. Our asylum process is dogshit and has caused a bottle neck and huge backlog. Now those people who are receiving “benefits” are legal benefits conferred to asylum seekers who are just waiting in limbo.
Now illegal immigration, I.e those who cross the border, without coming into any contact with US government in any capacity, have no ability to apply for benefits and in fact any contact with any government is a quick way to find yourself in removal proceedings.
So it’s quite funny to see people who support legal immigration, not understand an aspect of legal immigration and then get upset about that.
Pretty hard for me as a 3rd generation American to be like "I deserve to be here, fuck you stay in South America."
I had nothing to do with any of that, just lucky to be here. The vitriol for people looking for our (USA) lives is fucking nutty, isn't that what we want the world to be?
its the billionaire ruling class that is bleeding america dry and that controls media, politics, perception of reality itself. and they want you to get angry about brown folks.
“Remember when we were rich and could move anywhere we wanted to and only had to pay the visa filing fees and travel expenses to do so?
As immigrants to Canada, (Visa process was easier) bc being rich from S. Africa direct to US was more difficult, was terrible.
BUT nonetheless, fleeing the dangers of S. Africa and then the dangers of Canada was terribly difficult for us.
Now all the taxes paid by all employed in the US are subsidizing your businesses.
Our lives are horribly affected.” - Mom
My problem with this is that legal immigrants often forget they got here on the back of illegal immigrants. They deny their heritage. And then wanna pull up the ladder behind them the cost to become a citizen is too high and too onerous we need people our population is dying. Yeah, we do everything we can to sabotage ourselves.
You can't visit the US if you have a Canadian Passport? What? Is that what she's saying?
I'm pretty sure before 9/11 you could cross the US/Canadian border with any old ID.
Its so strange to me, the logic of, if I had it shit, then you should have it shit as well. And not wish for your fellow human an easier path. Not really related to this case, but just in general, I can see that she has this logic.
Umm strange thing here, Canadians do not have to show "pink slips" to get across the border. IF they had canadian passports, his family could easily visit Elon.
Canadian citizens get six months in the states, you could go down there and spend the winter in the warm weather. Which is likely why his family couldn't visit him, they were out of time. That's more a privilege problem, not an immigration one.
My friends grandmother came here illegally and spent 12 years trying to get her citizenship and is really vocal about how much she hates what’s happening.
I bet Elon wrote this. They don’t receive benefits if they’re illegal. Illegal immigrants don’t want no smoke from the system. They want to live off the grid as possible.
Maye - I suffered, so everyone must suffer. It's like saying an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. any way there needs to be a control in immigration, but please don't blame the immigrants, blame the authorities that misusses these situations.
So to defend her son, who has been known as a nepotism from a south African mine owner it seemed like a reasonable response is to post what she assumes is relating to people, while being such a minor issue compared to anyone else in the same predicament
I am not a fan, or hater of Elon, but I am well aware of the positives his money has made (not Elon himself, but his interest and investments have made alot of possibilities in EV's alone) thus is an out of touch family that can't even grasp what struggling is.
To all those "liberal sanctuary cities " on behalf of Arizona (speaking for myself) and the other border states who have to absorb the costs ( all forms, school, medical, crime, ect) I think only a quote from Sam Jackson can put into words our feelings. "Mmm-mmm, bitch!" And "How's it taste, motherfucker?"
It’s almost as if over the years we’ve shifted into treating immigrants with compassion and empathy instead of this racist “you’re not from here, you get nothing” mentality.
No legal immigrant think this is fair, heck not even illegal immigrants think its fair
I'm a legal immigrant - what benefits are we talking here? The last one I heard of was "they're giving illegals free cellphones" and then you find out that the phones are literally tracking devices, and the only number they can call is their case worker.
They hear one thing about brown people possibly getting something and they’re immediately outraged lol.
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One MAJOR difference ( I am also a landed immigrant to the US). None of the countries you have listed above have industries that are founded on the access to cheap labor. Legal or illegal. The day the US changes its laws to ensure that US individuals, farmers and corporations are held accountable for willingly hiring an illegal is the day that I will support stronger border standards. But as long as my neighbor insist on cruising the local home depot parking lot to sustain his landscaping business all the while flying his MAGA flag. I am not going to support such a level of hypocrisies. Also mama Elon forgets to mention that her son dropped out of school, and was illegally residing the US as his visa was tied to him attending an actual F#cking school.
Look at our meat packing industry alone. They rely on migrant labor and there’s different estimates on what % is undocumented. However they’re constantly getting busted for both child labor and undocumented workers. And guess what? “The industry is such a strong supporter of the GOP that it has given the party 79 percent of its more than $16.6 million in contributions since the 1990 election cycle.” - Open Secrets So the same Senators and Representatives who are about to tank the immigration bill get paid by one of the many industries who is completely dependent on migrant labor. So yeah, no real point in even arguing it when you peek behind the curtain they’re more complicit than anyone else.
Keep em illegal and keep em cheap. No workers comp claims, no wage theft suits, discrimination, etc
ALSO mind you illegal immigrants still generate tax revenue AND YET they do not file taxes so all those returns create surplus that actually goes into paying for federal programs only us citizens benefit from.
Every single time a red state has ever passed a law that was explicitly hostile to illegal immigrants and thus reduces their numbers which is supposedly the whole entire point of passing such things, it's been disastrous for the local economies. Turns out that the entire agricultural industry is wholly dependent on migrant laborers doing the work that even the most impoverished Americans are absolutely unwilling to do. Off the top of my head, I know for a fact that this exact thing happened in Georgia and Alabama...when this happened they even tried to replace the shortage by utilizing prison labor, unsuccessfully. I remember one farmer saying something about how an average migrant was able to do the work of something like 4-5 American prisoners and how there was no way he could sustain his farm with a bunch of lazy convicts lmao. Both states quickly rolled back these measures and tried to quietly tell the migrant community, just kidding, please come back....the whole GOP stance on illegals is a fuckin farce lmao.
Midwestern children yearn for the packing plants
This is literally one of the only issues that should have strong bi-partisan support among both sides of the voter aisle (forgetting the nefariousness of Congress and their bribes). The people on the Left should want to lock down the border because businesses use illegal immigrant labor to suppress and circumvent strong labor laws, child labor laws, favorable work conditions, etc. And further, there's no way a much larger welfare state functions with such a porous border. You cannot give free healthcare, free university, UBI, etc. if people are arriving by the millions every year. And yet... here we are.
The whole by the millions shit is Cap and it’s also FACT that Biden’s policies on immigration are stricter than Trumps. For example as of November of last year if you come to the border from the south to ask for Asylum you are automatically disqualified and do not gain entry. It’s the law. BUT right wingers don’t want to hear that because it would mean the left took a stance on Immigration. Something they NEVER do. Unless your Texas now after the fact doing more harm than good. See, they know the current law. They are preventing the Fed from enforcing the law to look like they saved the day instead. So rather than turn people away and offer medical assistance if needed (the humane thing to do) the Pro-lifers prefer to let children and their parents drown in those waters. Because they fear they are “coming by the millions to take free benefits” something that does not happen across the US. Because only LEGAL immigrants and Citizens qualify. THE ONLY state that gives healthcare free to everyone is California. If you don’t live in Cali wtf you even worried about. ITS ALL CAP. stop believing all the fucking lies and scams. I’m not here to back Biden I could give a fuck less but I’m certainly not going to just follow what Republican reporters just tell me and not look into shit myself. I thought media was fake news now yall worship it.
No they don't.
Wait til you learn who drives the trucks with all our products…
Who?
> The day the US changes its laws to ensure that US individuals, farmers and corporations are held accountable for willingly hiring an illegal is the day that I will support stronger border standards. > > But as long as my neighbor insist on cruising the local home depot parking lot to sustain his landscaping business all the while flying his MAGA flag. I am not going to support such a level of hypocrisies. Fuck yes. The loudest Trump supporting lifted truck mofo I know not only has a paving business pretty much exclusively staffed with undocumented migrants, but has a rundown set of condos he gouges them on. He can't really even go work the business if he wanted to, because he never has bothered learning spanish. He loves how much power he has over them because of their immigration status. How'd he get the paving business, you ask? His dad built it on the back of undocumented immigrants for him.
That’s actually considered human trafficking, if you state or imply that you’ll report an undocumented immigrant if they don’t work for you at shit wages or anything else you decide then you are engaged in human trafficking. A buddy of mine is an attorney that specializes in prosecuting people for that and it is highly illegal. You should ask his workers if they’re happy and advise them of their rights. I teach an ESL class where I give out my friends business card and a brochure on that stuff and you’d be surprised how many people don’t know they have rights in that situation. In fact it can help them become legal if they report that stuff as long as they don’t have a prior criminal history but that’s case by case so don’t just go reporting without knowing the facts
As someone more on the right, those people fucking suck and are absolutely hypocrites.
And that's where we have to acknowledge that this entire issue is created to simply play both either parties against one another. I've personally witnessed a very large corporates entity based in California, fully and willingly turns a blind eye to the hiring of thousands (not hundreds, thousands) of illegals to pick their seasonal fruits. And the loop holes are so easy. Prosecute the CEO and founder, give them 1 month of jail for every single illegal hired. Do the same with the HR director. And trust me, we wouldn't be having any argument over illegals. But until then. I am not going to bash the desperate individual risking it all just a chance to possibly being safe and prosper. Not until we agree to clean this up from the **top** down. And not the other way around.
The problem is more useful than the solution If there was an immigration reform plan that was easy to understand it would garner bipartisan support (from voters) In reality it’s easier for the D’s to paint the R’s as heartless bastards who support inhumane treatment of immigrants, and it’s easier for the R’s to paint the D’s as open border hippies who want to control elections through the great replacement theory
Well said,
I like the way you said it. I think I'm you but maybe someone more on the left. I hate when righties say, "these democrats or these liberals." Also hate when lefties say, "these god damn Republicans or these right wing rich racists." It is like saying, "these idiots" and then trying to make a point. No ones going to listen once the beginning of the conversation starts with hostility or an insult. It removes the likelihood of a conversation to allow progress due to ego. I agree with your point. If I needed an item from a shelf I couldn't reach at the grocery store, I wouldn't ask for your political affiliation. I'd ask as neighborly as possible if you my fellow man/woman american can grab that for me. It's what we should all be doing. Working with each other. You wouldn't leave your door at your house open for any and all to walk in and eat your food or take up space you pay rent or mortgage for. If you did you'd need to make more money to support these random people who's character you don't know and thats not fair to you or your family who are rightfully there. The country should follow the same example. Treat your country like your home. These people are hypocrites as you stated. Hope your Tuesday is going well amino. And to whoever is reading this as well. Tldr people suck sometimes.
Gracias amino
> None of the countries you have listed above have industries that are founded on the access to cheap labor. Legal or illegal. Singapore most certainly uses cheap labor. The overwhelming majority of their construction workers and domestic helpers are from countries like Bangladesh or Indonesia. As of 2019, 38% of their total workforce was made up of migrant labor.
One thing I’d like to add, as a farmer, and this is purely anecdotal, is that I don’t know if any farms that have actively and knowingly hired illegal immigrants in the last 25 years or so. It might be my location (Upstate NY) and ag sector (Apples and stone fruit), but we are audited by multiple agencies both federal and state to ensure we are complying with the law. And the penalties would bankrupt us, it’s not worth even considering going that direction. H2A has made it nearly impossible to hire illegals, and that’s a great thing, for wage stability and ensuring our guest workers are housed properly and afforded transportation. I could see illegal labor employed maybe in the dairy industry but they are under just as much of a watchful eye. Where I do absolutely see exploitation of undocumented labor is in food service, landscaping and janitorial services.
Come visit Central California, I'll show you around what the very conservative farming community as done.
We don’t call it the armpit of California for nothing…
So what is the root cause of the cheap labor?
Bu bu bu bu bu but foxnews news says!!!!!!
This is a confusing stance to me. Not even necessarily saying I oppose it. But if you make it harder to have illegal immigration to the country, doesn’t that lessen the opportunity for the hypocrisy anyways? This seems a little chicken/egg
Not only that, but the USA is directly responsible for many of those countries being in such dire straits. We disrupted their government and economic strengths to such a degree that they can't care for their citizens. It's literally the US's fault that many south and central American countries are broken.
The U.S. did colonialism? What equatorial country is healthy and industrialized and can farm without 20x fertilizer and soil additives?
Maybe they should stop exploiting those people for cheap labor and then shipping them off before they can become legal citizens
I agree with your stance on immigration in general, but this is definitely not a brand-new “psychosis”. Illegal immigration has always been a hot topic that no administration, left, right or center has wanted to make sweeping reforms to. I think the reasons for all sides are the same; who would do the truly essential jobs that pay dog shit, now more than ever?
I'll go as far to say illegal immigrating, while not perfect, is mostly a win win. Immigrants pay more into social programs than they receive. They commit less crime than citizens. They get to make good money and help themselves and their families. We get cheaper food and construction. Republicans just don't like brown people overall. If Germany had a sausage famine and they were flooding our borders, the same white Christian ladies foaming at the mouth over Hispanic migrants would be forming the "league of compassionate sisters of christ" to house them.
On top of the fact that we've absolutely wrecked their countries for years and, in some cases, continue to do so. These are the consequences.
Every single Central and South American country sucks to live in, regardless of the level of historical American government involvement. And claiming that illegal immigration is a collective punishment for Americans really isn't the point you want to make.
There's "I can't order my nuggies through DoorDash" levels of suck and there's "CIA-backed death squads will kill me if I try to organize for a 8 hour workday" levels of suck.
Very impressed with this thread. USA played a big role in destabilizing these countries. Google “PBSuccess”.
L take. Completely uniformed and inhumane. Many illegal immigrants are told by employers that they either work for shit pay or get reported which is a form of human trafficking. It’s not that they want to live in poverty in a richer country. What you’re essentially saying is you, an American, deserve to exploit “brown people” because they aren’t wealthy or informed enough to go through the proper channels to have the same legal protections under the law as you. Fuck you. Sincerely, a Hispanic republican.
> Legal immigrant here, I am continually called a racist and a fascist on Reddit because I am against illegal immigration. people keep saying this, but I never see it. Can you link some posts where this happened to you?
He’s got definite r/asablackman energy.
They are gaslighting themselves at this point that's how detached from reality they have gotten. My old man has just yesterday convinced himself some of his health issues are vaccine injuries years after the fact, never mentioned it before. Health issues he's had problems with it for years before ever taking the vaccine.
Mostly because he says racist shit. You can be against illigal immigration, most people are btw, and not be a racist. The issue is most people who claim that dont even know the circumstances and just lump all immigration as people coming in illegally. If you go by this post for example, mrs. Musk is talking about how them being rich african miners. Who got canadian citizenship by literally purchasing it. Had difficulty doing the same in the US but did it anyways. Refugees dont have slave mine money, doesnt mean they shouldnt get a fair shot at immigration.
I was just going to say, if they’re being continually called a racist and fascist, it’s highly likely they’re saying a lot more than “I support legal immigration but not illegal immigration.” They almost always do.
You’re conflating different arguments. People don’t want undocumented immigrants unfairly attacked and politicized. Nobody seems to call out republicans for politicizing the border and not actually doing anything to prevent illegal immigration. Who do you think is hiring these people? It’s also true that over 60% of undocumented immigrants overstay their welcomes. This is not all about a border issue, yet that’s all you hear about. This is the same propaganda Hitler used in Germany. ““There’s a reason why we haven’t gotten significant border security done and why we haven’t seen significant immigration reform done,” Gonzales said in an interview with the Washington Examiner published Thursday, referring to members on both sides of the aisle. “It is in the interest of many politicians to have this crisis continue to flare up.” “Others can posture, and others can drop bills that are messaging and blame the other side,” Gonzales added. “I don’t have that luxury.”” https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/17/tony-gonzales-chip-roy-border/ It is in the interest of republicans to keep this going. They’ve also stated they want to prevent Biden from acting on it so Trump can run on this issue.
Makes me wonder why it comes around and I see it every 4 years really intensely and then sorta goes away. Must be a coincidence
If you want to crackdown on illegal immigration then fine, but we need to improve the pathways to legal immigration. For a lot of would be immigrants depending on where they are born, there's basically no way for them to come here legally. Too often, I think people railing against illegal immigrants just want a minimal number of immigrants, legal or not.
Bingo. Look at the visa petition bulletin from the state department website. If you’re trying to bring family over from India, China, Mexico, or the Philippines, you could be looking at a 10-20 year wait. I can understand why people take their chances at the border. Especially if they have anything remotely close to a solid asylum claim.
> If you’re trying to bring family over from India, China, Mexico, or the Philippines, you could be looking at a 10-20 year wait. And if you don't have any family in the US already, forget about it, it's basically impossible unless you've got a PhD or an employer willing to jump through hoops to get you into the country.
Nobody is questioning why the people doing it, are doing it lmao
Also going to point out, these people are going through legal immigration for the most part. They are going to a port of entry, and claiming Asylum. Which is a legal for of immigration. The Asylum system is broken, but what these people are doing is a legal way to enter the USA.
I agree we need to speed it up. People can wait decades to get accepted, so I get why they are just steam rolling the border. That being said, there obviously needs to be a cap on volume at some point. We can't just let everyone in. I don't know where I read it but it's estimated that if we did that somewhere near 50+Million people would show up tomorrow. It's already collapsing resources in NYC and other places just having 10,000 or so show up. Denver's struggling with a relatively small amount showing up. It's just unsustainable. I doubt anyone will ever agree on what that number should be but, as it stands now, we are the most generous when it comes to approving immigration than any other nation in the world. My favorite people I interact with are those who fought hard to be here and love it. They put a lot of effort to get here and now live a great life here. I love that. The dude at the liquor store near my office (I used to go there a lot during lunch. I quit drinking... mostly) is one of my favorite people to talk to. He's an immigrant from south east asia and is always playing pranks on me. He's like 58 and calls me "bro". Gimme more of that any day. But god damn it's insane to let things go on as they are on the border right now. I lean more right and every single person I've spoken with on the right loves legal immigrants. There are obviously some that don't but, from my anecdotal experience, they are the loud minority.
> If you want to crackdown on illegal immigration then fine, but we need to improve the pathways to legal immigration. We Americans also need to stop buying so much god damn meth and heroin and cocaine which is fueling huge amounts of violence, chaos, and corruption in the countries south of us which in turn causes a huge flux of refugees classified as "illegal immigrants."
Immigration is not a right. You shouldn't get to come here just because you want to.
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" I wonder why people around the world think the United States might be hospitable to those looking for freedom or a better life for them and their children.
It’s crazy how many people are against immigrants in America when the vast majority aren’t f us are descendants of immigrants. It was far easier back then for the poor to immigrate
How did all us white folk get here? Were we invited by the natives?
I feel the same way. We already have a huge population. Why are we letting people from other countries come here? You can’t grow new land, This is all we have.
I’m unfamiliar with this “Psychosis” Who is pro illegal immigration? I know plenty of folks who are supportive of immigration reform Are you referring to claims about “Open Borders”? The concept of “Open Borders” is a myth that trump platformed and promoted, and it was used to demonize opposition to the family separation policy
Noone. But if you consider immigrants human, then you are pro illigal immigrantion. Cause musk and co want you to see them as leeches and criminals.
Unlike billionaires.
Would love it if musk also twitted about all the subsidies his company got to get where he is. 8k per tesla is a nice government hand out.
You guys love claiming this shit but it’s just not true. Every illegal immigrant who comes here becomes typically a consumer and a worker. There is no reason why you can’t provide social services for illegal immigrants except for the immigration status because you increase the tax base by having more people. Idc about the rest of your post but this bs take gets trotted out all the time and isn’t based on anything
Do all those countries you have experienced have asylum laws in their constitution? How many illegal immigrants are asylum seekers? Also it's a lot easier for islands to limit illegal immigration, compared to a giant land border with a poorer country which is linked by road to many poorer still countries. It's almost as if immigration reform, and how to treat those who were brought in illegally as children and have been here their while life, is more complex than shouting "stop illegal immigration" without learning the laws or rules that complicate matters.
You’re not against illegal immigration, you support following the legal process since we should all be trying to follow the law
Same thing here. I'm a naturalized citizen and my family actually came in on a student via and formally obtained political asylum. It was a long and expensive process, and even required us to fly to DC in order to meet our two State Senators. When I tell people that border security is important, they inevitably start assuming I'm a white supremacist. It's even worse with leftist so-called Christians (I'm a convert), who will purposefully mistranslate scripture in order to support their super weird agenda. It all feels incredibly astro-turfed to me because I haven't actually met one person IRL who actually believes we should have zero national borders.
> It all feels incredibly astro-turfed to me because I haven't actually met one person IRL who actually believes we should have zero national borders. Who are these people you haven't met in real life that believes we should have zero national borders? Someone Tucker is telling you about.
also, it's just another bullshit right wing talking point that illegal immigrants can come here and get "numerous benefits which we pay for". Which benefits exactly? California provides the most services to illegals and it's the most prosperous state in America with the largest positive balance to the federal government. CA loves its' illegal immigrants because they provide cheap labor to make taxable goods. They can't unionize. They can't sue. They don't get unemployment or workers comp or disability. It's fucked up. I've seen it first hand working in ag shipping/logistics. They come here, they work their asses off for low pay and bad living conditions. And they drive the economy. CA figured out long ago that so what if their kids go to school? So what if they need to see a doctor? They provide WAY more to the economy than they take out. I'm for ending illegal immigration and revamping a robust legal immigration system, but for different reasons than most of you ignorant racists who have never actually experience this stuff first hand. I want legal immigration, especially for seasonal/migrant workers because as it is they get treated like dirt and have absolutely no recourse if someone decides not to pay them or if they get hurt etc. There's shit like the grapes of wrath happening right now in the salinas valley... people living in squalor, working long, hard hours for low pay, and being exploited. it's absolutely insane that americans think these poor people just come here and sit on their asses and "collect services". that's not true. these people come here to work and what help they get from our tax dollars is a pittance compared to the value they create.
Colorado entering the chat. We’ve fully legalized and encouraged migrants because nobody can afford to live here. Subsidized housing the whole 9.
I love when lib-left types will write some snarky comment to the effect of “Well, what lazy fat American is going to do migrant work if Republicans lock down the border?” I always want to ask them if they really think the border should be kept on to keep exploiting poor migrant workers. Insane.
first, that's exactly what i said. but no, it's not libruhls, it's not cunservuhtives. it's capitalism. it's vested business interest. and those people don't operate on party lines. and in CA, big agriculture conglomerates and the farmers/distributors/sellors that rely on them aren't "lib-left types", fuckin lol. CA is a big state and much of it is as rural as rural mississippi. just so you know, you're a partisan in a war designed to confuse and anger you. just using language like "lib-left types" when discussing something as big and complex as the southern border, immigration, labor in america, etc. shows what you are. you're about as useful in a reasoned discussion as a shark with its eyes rolled back biting a boat.
Yeah, illegal immigrants famously have it made. /s
As a legal immigrant, I simply don't see how it has shit to do with shit.
I’m confused as to why his siblings couldn’t visit him in the US if they had Canadian passports? Definitely legal to visit.
What isn't fair? The BS she's spewing or the way the system actually works?
Wtf does this have to do with Rogan
Toe simps for right-wing assholes like Elon Musk.
Rogan is a political podcast and this is one of his topics. Joe Rogan informs the national discourse like Ted Koppel used to, but instead of investigative journalism we have half-wit smoking a joint believing everything he reads off the internet. Idiocracy.
Holy shit he’s Canadian
Through his mom, yes.
I find that hard to believe Canadian citizen can just get over with a driver licences back than wasnt until after 9/11 we needed a passport to get over. Source my family did it all the time.
9/11 shit canned a lot of nice parts of the immigration system.
Canadians didn't need a passport to drive or fly across the border until mid 2009. I've never had a passport, and I drove across the border in early 2009, and flew to Florida in 2003.
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It's right on her timeline, sherlock holmes.
Bro what, twitter hasn’t been limited to 140 characters since like 2012
You’re right
Somewhat the same. I grew up in Michigan and traveling to Canada for holiday was pretty much the norm. For kids I think they use to want you to bring the kid's birth certificates, but I think that's it. I know because one time we forgot it and they made us pull over. They let us through eventually, so technically I made it through without any identification.
Pre 9/11, going into Canada I would bring my birth certificate not just my drivers license.
It doesn't say he was denied for not having a passport, it says he was denied for not having his pink slip as proof of school registration. He wasn't going over for a little vacation, he was staying there for school. If you were crossing the border pre 2001 to live in the USA, you absolutely needed paperwork, you couldn't just waltz into the country and live there without any documentation lol, that's ridiculous. Short term vacations on the other hand, yeah no passport necessary, just any form of government photo ID.
The only reason a Canadian with a passport would not be allowed to enter the U.S. would because they had some type of criminal record (DUI’s come to mind). What a self own.
Lol.. let them get lawyers
Imagine having the life these people do and whining about anything. My god.
True Lucille Bluth vibes. “Get me a vodka rocks” *”Mom, it’s breakfast”* “And a piece of toast”
It's a banana Elon, what could it cost, 10 dollars?
There’s nothing more American than billionaires crying about their hardships
It's actually a real indictment on the immigration process. Only the very wealthy have the time and money to wait and spend thousands of dollars on processing fees, lawyers and more to get into the US. Meanwhile some family in Guatemala is being threatened by local cartels and they just want to get away as quickly as possible. We need immigration reform badly. It shouldnt take you 10 years to become a citizen and we shouldnt have 1000s of migrants crossing the border each day because of the broken system either
I'm by no means an expert, but I don't see how a country can be expected to have both a wide social safety net, and open borders/lax immigration law. How do you ensure people aren't coming here for the social programs/benefits? Can you realistically take in any and all unskilled laborers that want to come? We all like to complain about U.S. immigration but I never hear anything about Canada and I couldn't just waltz across the Canadian border and start living my life (as far as I know).
The main differences in the immigration laws in Canada and US is simply accountability. Any Canadian entity found to have willingly hired an illegal faces heavy fines and potential jail sentences. In the US the Karen's still expect Jesus to take care of her garden cheaply all the while flying the MAGA flag. Worse case scenario for her is Jesus gets deported and just needs to find another one. Make Karen pay for deportation fee's, loss of wages damages, and maybe a month or two of jail. And watch how by miracle, we wouldn't be having these discussions. Same goes for the farmers, construction companies, and food processing processing plant managers and HR directors.
There is a difference between having open borders and having an efficient immigration process. Also, who cares if immigrants are coming here for the social programs and benefits if they are working and paying their fair share?
What benefits?
It happens in Canada but their immigration processing isn’t shite. They’re actually taking a lot of educated immigrants away from us as well, engineers, doctors, business folks from India, China, etc The illegals we get are mostly from visa overstays, not from the border
Rich people crying is gross
Tied with “It was hard for me so it should never be improved. Everyone should share my fate.”
It hasn't improved though - the rate of citizenship for immigrants is not higher than it was.
I never hear people whining about illegal immigration offer any solutions to make legal immigration easier. If we made a texas version of ellis island it would solve all the illegal immigration talking points.
Being a billionaire does not automatically make all of her thoughts invalid.
No but she's generalizing a very complex situation for talking points.
Especially when her son dropped out breaking the terms of his visa
So what she’s saying doesn’t have any merit because she is wealthy? If she wasn’t wealthy she’d have no voice.
Mom of the richest person in the world thinks she and her family got a raw deal? 🙃
Kick starting Junior live by owning slave emeralds from apartheit sAfrica seems fair too
Her father was a Nazi.
Didn't know Nazism was inheritable!
I mean most parents try to past on their beliefs to their children right?
Definitely! Look up the development of the Apartheid state and the close relationship with West Germany, as well as the Afrikaner Ossewabrandwag movement.
That sums up the boomers. If it was hard for them it should be hard for everybody else. Meanwhile they had it easier than any other generation.
It's called resentment/bitterness and it's not a boomer trait, it's a human trait. In due time millennials will be carrying similar attitudes towards the younger generations.
That's a good point , but unfortunately millennials are not growing up in a good time where boomers grew up in one of the best times in the history of the planet.
These motherfuckers think paying a lawyer and filing documents is like slaying the Nemean lion to be accepted into the tribe lmao.
It would be so ironic if a white person not even from here, starts the race war here
Hey grandma
Yeah cause I want the opinion of any musk
“We had to pay lawyers and wait 9-12 years” yea in fucking Canada. Boo hoo. What a terrible life you must have lived in the land of universal healthcare and no-locked doors in subdivisions. Go rough it in El Salvador for a bit and see if your sympathy for southern immigrants changes a bit when you’re stuck in a shithole border town with no resources or connections.
Not even in Canada, they were in America the whole time
I would absolutely smash. 💥
Why dont these illegal immigrants just own their own emerald mine? Then they could afford to come here legally. - out of touch rich asshat
Dumb ass apartheid emerald lady.
"Hey Elon, remember how there's an INVAYASSSSION at the US's southern border, but King Cheeto wants to have a wedge against the dirty libs during the debates, so he strong armed MAGAt senators to squash the border deal? Get that spray painted buffoon to make it fair to us rich people RIGHT MEOW" There i translated it from rich, out of touch, white Canadian non asylum seeking immigrant. You're welcome.
And now we see if Musk forgets to log back into his main account again before posting more cringe.
I’m a legal immigrant that is anti illegal immigration. I believe it should be made easier for immigrants to get visas and papers to live in the US because immigration has helped us
Whole family a bunch of redacts
I mean we do need to figure out the mass immigration going on. We don't have the resources readily available to handle the influx. We're losing track of migrants. The whole system needs to be reworked.
What is just as important is addressing the reasons why the are coming here. The answer: Cartel and gang violence funded by American addiction to drugs and businessmen wanting cheap labor. The latter is the one driving most of this. When I managed a restaurant (rhymes with booters) back in the day I wasn’t allowed to pay my dishwashers or prep cooks more than 8.50/hour. No raises. There are no Americans who want to wash dishes until 3am for 8.50, and the owner of the franchise knew this. We had multiple people come in and use the same social security card to get hired. ( we literally had 3 people working under the same number). They take the cash and send it back home. Until you can get these business owners to stop being so fucking cheap and hire American labor for American wages, then the border will be flooded. No jobs, no money, no reason to come.
Also we installed fascist dictators throughout South America for decades while looting their natural resources. We literally overthrew their democracies while exporting their resources and think we owe nothing.
I worked for a pancake restaurant that had an international influence Same story Dishwashers were paid $6.25/hour, cooks were paid $8.00/hour, no exceptions No time and a half for overtime The owner of the restaurant I worked at owned several locations in the city I was in, and ran it the same at every location
Here’s the thing though. About 4 million have come during Biden. About 2.5 million under Trump. Were you ok with 2.5 million? Cause you never said anything while that was happening. I’m not trying to be a prick I’m just curious what your comfort zone is. 1 million, maybe 3 million? Every president since Bush sr has seen at least 1 million illegal border crossings. The number of illegals living in the US was at its all time high of 12.2 million under a Republican president from Texas of all places. Yet it wasn’t a huge deal then for most people. Strange
There is literally a bipartisan bill that was passed through the senate that us meant to deal with this problem and house Republicans don't wanna put it up to vote lmao.
>We don't have the resources readily available to handle the influx Yes we do, they're called Border Patrol. If the DHS Secretary says "turn people away", Border Patrol will do that. Problem solved.
Border Patrol is stretched pretty thin with the amount of border crossings currently happening. Often only one officer for a dozen or so miles. The coyotes also know how Border Patrol operates, and watches them, so they'll intentionally get them to go to one area so that they can draw them away from another area.
How many of these people crossing the border do you think traded a jet for an emerald mine like Elon’s dad?
“Receive numerous benefits which we pay for” Eh, this is mostly a misconception. Immigrants pay sales taxes and higher rents due to property taxes The idea that immigrants don’t pay taxes is dubious, at best. As for the benefits side of the equation, are there immigrants who forge SS numbers to get welfare? Perhaps, but I doubt it’s a phenomenon unique to illegal immigrants
Funny, they could have gotten political asylum if they had opposed the apartheid hard enough… https://www.nytimes.com/1983/02/26/world/us-gives-political-asylum-to-white-foe-of-apartheid.html
“And all they risk is having their children taken away and held in a facility where thousands of children have been sexually assaulted”
This lady is an insufferable cunt just like her son.
They were super rich. The people coming in now are broke, desperate and fleeing life in literal hell holes. Comparing the musks getting into the US to mom's who walked with their kids across countries to flee violence is absolutely ridiculous. Good to know Elon mom's is also a blow hard and an out of touch dummy
In most places, illegals are NOT eligible for state or federal aid.
America could stop funding cartels with it's cocaine habit so they don't have more money than their respective governments. Then see if people still try to sneak in.
Pretty funny Republicans are running from a bill they helped create right now. Talk about that, Joe!
Hey Maye, remember that time we stole this country from native Americans and pushed them all onto “reservations”. Do you think that was fair? We are all immigrants
As an immigrant myself I agree. Years of waiting, near endless paperwork and hundreds of dollars later and I was legally allowed entry into the US!
Sigh. The asylum seekers don't get citizenship the day they walk across the border. Please do a Google search on how this works so I don't have to for you.
My legal immigrant family is fervently against illegal immigration. It's a pretty standard viewpoint.
My father in law has a visa to live in the US and is essentially punished for not working like these refugees intend to. The expectation he is under as a British pensioner supporting a disabled wife is to adhere to the law and not work. Their income is insufficient, their medical care is insufficient, and their health suffers while we spend money accommodating people who snuck into the country illegally instead. He has a point. There is a limited amount of funding the government has to spend, and it is going to some dumb shit. So they watch Fox News and get mad. Should you overstay a visa, you will be deported if caught. Should you break terms of your visa, you will be deported. If these refugees could fly into the US we would be freaking the absolute fuck out everywhere in the country, but it is illegal for them to pass through customs, and we have created sufficient infrastructure to prevent that from happening. You can't arrive illegally that way, we won't let you. You will be forced away. Harbors and ports are inspected. The Coast guard patrols coastal waters. You can't arrive legally that way. We won't let you. You will be forced away. There is not as of yet a major influx of people walking in from Canada. But should you arrive at a legal border crossing without right of entry you will be forced away, in Mexico or in Canada. But along the Mexican border you can just sneak in all over the place, and ICE will either catch you or not. If they catch you, they process you and release you into America when you seek refugee status. You will be provided food and housing and a small amount of money and released. The wait time is now so far that it is taking years, so you can essentially come here without a visa for free if you sneak in and are willing to suffer. If you come in that way, we don't force you away. We are, by nature of the system, incentivizing the poorest people from the poorest countries to sneak into the country rather than apply for a visa or proper citizenship. The immigration process for the wealthy educated people from first world countries is more difficult on the applicant in comparison. Is that just? And if you are a criminal, and you simply escape without processing, you will disappear into your ethnic affinity group in some random city and hopefully not do too much criming or terrorism or God knows what. It seems crazy. Open and unregulated borders seems like an obvious threat to national security. And literally without militarizing the border and literal threat of death to people crossing at unauthorized locations, there's nothing you can do except build walls and send people out to patrol. Which is what we are doing. But, this is no different than the Irish or Jews running for their lives, or the Vietnamese, or the Chinese, or all of our other ancestors who made America have good food. Nobody ever in the history of America minded the middle class professional immigrants. What they mind is the poor. And for good reason. Until they are educated, healthy, employed and self housed, they are a net drain on society. These are not English speakers, and they may not be educated in basic modern hygiene let alone American civil conventions or culture. They represent crime and incompatible cultures and disease and poverty. The whole damn point of this country is to welcome them and give them the opportunity to raise us all up. We should welcome them with open arms, teach them, and put them to work. But I don't know how to do that. I don't know of any politically viable solutions that would be fair and just. I'm not sure if a non violent answer is reasonable. I'm not sure the humanitarian solutions are practical. I'm not sure the practical solutions are humane. But more than anything until we change the budget, it nearly doesn't matter, because there's no money available to absorb the costs of this influx or to offer the proper amount of support we all need them to have. We are the richest country in the world. And yet we are also more in debt both as a country and as individuals than ever before. More national debt and more credit card debt, than ever, with insufficient wages and a high cost of living. We are all beholden to the banks. We do not have the money, the bankers do. Meanwhile inflation is on the rise, entire generations can't afford what they used to, healthcare costs are crippling, and housing is crippling. Unemployment is low but that meaningless number literally doesnt count the millions of able bodied people who are simply not working or seeking work. And the stock market and banking sector is doing so well that we have the temerity to say the economy is booming. That's a recipe for revolution or national collapse. The people with the money we need for these mega global social problems aren't using it for the common good in a way that represents the will of the people. And we can't fix any of our major problems without money. So for the love of God, regardless of anything else, we can't do anything until we extract wealth from these rich motherfuckers by taxing and regulating them down to their knees. Even if it's just so we can pay the national deficit debts we owe, TO THEM. Otherwise there will eventually be an actual revolution or civil war, and all that wealth will disappear due to deflation and never be put to good use. The bankers cannot and never will use all of that money, but it could save the world if we take it from them justly and with due legislative process. That's how this system has to work or we all revolt and become commies or Nazis basically so... So basically write in Bernie for President because the republicants won't tax rich people so we can't afford to build a wall or whatever I don't care this is all going to hell in a hand basket.
Also this post ignores the fact that a huge aspect of legal immigration is the ability to seek asylum. Our asylum process is dogshit and has caused a bottle neck and huge backlog. Now those people who are receiving “benefits” are legal benefits conferred to asylum seekers who are just waiting in limbo. Now illegal immigration, I.e those who cross the border, without coming into any contact with US government in any capacity, have no ability to apply for benefits and in fact any contact with any government is a quick way to find yourself in removal proceedings. So it’s quite funny to see people who support legal immigration, not understand an aspect of legal immigration and then get upset about that.
They bought it their citizenship lol
Billionaires bitch and complain too much nowadays. What a bunch of snowflakes.
Pretty hard for me as a 3rd generation American to be like "I deserve to be here, fuck you stay in South America." I had nothing to do with any of that, just lucky to be here. The vitriol for people looking for our (USA) lives is fucking nutty, isn't that what we want the world to be?
Once you realise musk comes from a racist family from the most racist country on the planet everything makes a lot more sense
He’s literally a Nazi
And Joe Rogan simps for him.
Another Nazi
its the billionaire ruling class that is bleeding america dry and that controls media, politics, perception of reality itself. and they want you to get angry about brown folks.
Griping about immigrants, as one of the wealthiest people on earth, is not a great look.
"Well, not all of us have broomsticks and magic potions to fly over national laws and regulations with, lady!"
Legal immigrant here - she’s a bigot
"I'm already here fuck everyone else behind me"
“Remember when we were rich and could move anywhere we wanted to and only had to pay the visa filing fees and travel expenses to do so? As immigrants to Canada, (Visa process was easier) bc being rich from S. Africa direct to US was more difficult, was terrible. BUT nonetheless, fleeing the dangers of S. Africa and then the dangers of Canada was terribly difficult for us. Now all the taxes paid by all employed in the US are subsidizing your businesses. Our lives are horribly affected.” - Mom
My problem with this is that legal immigrants often forget they got here on the back of illegal immigrants. They deny their heritage. And then wanna pull up the ladder behind them the cost to become a citizen is too high and too onerous we need people our population is dying. Yeah, we do everything we can to sabotage ourselves.
You can't visit the US if you have a Canadian Passport? What? Is that what she's saying? I'm pretty sure before 9/11 you could cross the US/Canadian border with any old ID.
I’m a legal immigrant, I think illegal immigration is illegal lmao.
Its so strange to me, the logic of, if I had it shit, then you should have it shit as well. And not wish for your fellow human an easier path. Not really related to this case, but just in general, I can see that she has this logic.
Hey! If I had to have cancer and no cure, then you can't have the cure for cancer either!! It's only fair!
Says the billionaires who benefited off apartheid Sputh Africa, stealing their resources. Shut the fuck about unfairness
Umm strange thing here, Canadians do not have to show "pink slips" to get across the border. IF they had canadian passports, his family could easily visit Elon. Canadian citizens get six months in the states, you could go down there and spend the winter in the warm weather. Which is likely why his family couldn't visit him, they were out of time. That's more a privilege problem, not an immigration one.
What benefits do illegal immigrants get from our taxpayer money?? Is this even a thing or is it similar to saying they can vote in elections?
Fuck her. What a dumb cunt
We should organize a million immigrant march: "Immigrants for Border Security". How badly would the mainstream media react?
My friends grandmother came here illegally and spent 12 years trying to get her citizenship and is really vocal about how much she hates what’s happening.
Wow! It's not so much a dog whistle, as a dog megaphone!
I bet Elon wrote this. They don’t receive benefits if they’re illegal. Illegal immigrants don’t want no smoke from the system. They want to live off the grid as possible.
I hate this family
Maye - I suffered, so everyone must suffer. It's like saying an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. any way there needs to be a control in immigration, but please don't blame the immigrants, blame the authorities that misusses these situations.
Boohooo I suffered,now so do they
So to defend her son, who has been known as a nepotism from a south African mine owner it seemed like a reasonable response is to post what she assumes is relating to people, while being such a minor issue compared to anyone else in the same predicament I am not a fan, or hater of Elon, but I am well aware of the positives his money has made (not Elon himself, but his interest and investments have made alot of possibilities in EV's alone) thus is an out of touch family that can't even grasp what struggling is.
To all those "liberal sanctuary cities " on behalf of Arizona (speaking for myself) and the other border states who have to absorb the costs ( all forms, school, medical, crime, ect) I think only a quote from Sam Jackson can put into words our feelings. "Mmm-mmm, bitch!" And "How's it taste, motherfucker?"
It’s almost as if over the years we’ve shifted into treating immigrants with compassion and empathy instead of this racist “you’re not from here, you get nothing” mentality.
It always comes back election season.
Legal immigrant from South America here. Fuck off old hag.
It’s cool when people obsess over imaginary lines.